Shaun Newman Podcast - #555 - Tanner Hnidey

Episode Date: December 25, 2023

He is an economist, freelance speaker, social critic, and lay-theologian. He's the author and editor of TannerHnidey.com where he regularly comments on political, ethical, religious, and economic issues. Let me know what you think. Text me 587-217-8500 Substack:https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcastE-transfer here: [e-mail] Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/Email: [e-mail] [phone] – general sales line, ask for Grahame and be sure to let us know you’re an SNP listener.

This is Tanner Nadee. I'm Trish Wood. This is Tammy Peterson. This is Curtis Stone. This is Quick Dick McDick. This is Carrie the Don, and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks. How's everybody doing today?

Merry Christmas. I hope, personally, I hope that nobody listens to this. I hope you're not, I mean, nobody listens to it on the day of. It's Christmas. I hope you're with family and friends. If you're, if you're working, and that's why you're tuning in. I remember the first time I ever released a Christmas episode was the first year,

and I wasn't going to do it. I was like, oh, I'll take Christmas off. And I think it was Troy Clark. I'm going to throw out that name. Troy showed it to you. I believe it was him who texted me and said, you know, I've got to work Christmas, and I would love it if you'd release something for me.

And I guess it kind of changed my mindset on any holiday, is that there's always good people out doing the, the work. And so, you know, since then, I've never looked at any holiday, including Christmas the same way. Obviously, I've recorded this the week before, but we make sure on this side that we have something on whenever the Monday is, regardless of the holiday. And, you know, but in saying that, I really hope the day of that there's like zero downloads. I hope, you know, it's later on that people tune in. But Merry Christmas to you. If you are working today, I appreciate you tuning in and stay safe on, you know, wherever you are.

And I hope you get to spend time with family and friends. I hope you get to enjoy some turkey or whatever it is on your end that you find folks do for Christmas. I know our Christmas today, we are on the road to the United States of America. So we're heading down south. And that's where we're going to be. hopefully the weather holds out for us. We always, the Newman family always rents the ice and goes skating and has a lot of fun that way. So I always look forward to Christmas.

So Merry Christmas to you all, wherever you are. And appreciate you all tuning in today. I hope you have a Merry Christmas. That's, that's there. That's, yeah, to all of you. Merry Christmas. Now, today's episode brought to you by Canadians for Tristan. Truth. They, uh, their nonprofit organization consisting of Canadians who believe in honesty, integrity,

and the principal leadership in government, as well as Canadian Bill of Rights, Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the Rule of Just Laws. They have a show coming up here in January. Chris Sky is going to be in Calgary with Theo and Jamie. So if that's something you're interested in, just head to Canadiens for truth.com. Silver Gold Bull, North America's premier precious metals dealer with state-of-the-art distribution centers in Calgary, Alberta, and Las Vegas, Nevada. They insure fast-fally insured discrete shipping right to your doorstep and you can get there silver gold bowl.ca go in the show notes everything's sitting right there for you. Profit River, Clay Smiley and the group there, they are the major retailers of firearms, optics and accessories. They serve all of Canada. Just go to profitriver.com

and remember they ship all across Canada. So for that hunter, that sportsman in your life, if you're looking for something, profitriver.com. And remember, all that. all across Canada. Tyson and Tracy, Mitchell, Mitchcoe, Environmental, wishing everybody a Merry Christmas. I should say that from all these companies. They're all wishing you a Merry Christmas. It's a special day today, you know?

I don't know. What's everybody's Christmas tradition? Maybe they fire me off a text. I would love to hear. And I just got my first, I should point this out. I got my first 20-second video from one of the listeners. So appreciate if you guys. guys have any thoughts on the podcast here in between the holidays. If you want to send me off a

quick voice and video or video message, I guess is what I was looking for. Try and keep it to 20 seconds just on the podcast, 23. Just say hello. We'll try and put something together here on the holidays to toss out or maybe the beginning of the new year. But either way, if you're so inclined, please do. For Mitch Cole, Merry Christmas. If you're looking for a job here in the new year, give him a call 780214-4-4004-mitchco corp.C.A. That's where you can find out more. And Carly Closs and Windsor Plywood, builders of the podcast Studio Table when it comes to mantles, decks, windows, doors, sheds,

podcast studio tables, stop in and see Windsor plywood. All right, now let's get on to that tale of the tape brought to you by Hancock Petroleum for the past 80 years. They've been an industry leader in bulk fuels, lubricants, methanol, and chemicals delivering to your farm, commercial, oil field locations. For more information, visit them in Hancock Petroleum, Adet, CA. He's an economist, freelance speaker, social critic, and lay theologian.

He's the author and editor of tannernaday.com, where he regularly comments on politics, ethical, religious, and economic issues. I'm talking about tanner today. So buckle up. Here we go. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Pleasure to be. Joined by Mr. Tanner Nadee again. How are you doing, sir?

Not so bad. How are you? Yeah, good. And as I told you, this is going to release on Christmas. So to anyone working and listening today, thanks for two. I'm tuning in. Merry Christmas to you all. As I said in the preamble, I hope nobody listens to this on Christmas Day. I personally hope that nobody has to work, and I know there were going to be people working. The story goes, I showed up to Troy Clark. My first year of doing the podcast, I was doing one a week, and I was going to take the week of Christmas off. I was just like, I'm going to take it off. And Troy Clark reached out, sent me a text and said, could you release something? I've got to work the entire week, and I would appreciate it if I had something to listen to. And I went, oh, yeah, sure. Yeah, I can do something.

So I can't remember who I interviewed back then. I guess a guy could go back and look it up. But I released it. And ever since then, I've never forgotten it. I've been like, people are going to have to work on Christmas Day. And I wish they didn't. But that's, you know, the reality of our world that, you know, we have people working nonstop at all times.

And, you know, if they want to tune into something, we might as well toss it out and let them take it up at their own time frame. Absolutely. Absolutely. Especially now. as the economy continues to stall. I think you'll see more and more people working on Christmas. Politicians won't be working on Christmas,

but the people they govern certainly will be. Oh, yes. I'm going to go all the way back here. Let's see if I can. There's one. All right. Let's see if I can find it. 2019, May, May, May, May, July.

Man, that's a long time ago. December, 20, was Lance Ward of the Florida Panthers, local Lloyd Boy. There you go. That's what came out almost five years ago now. It's quite the journey. Quite the journey. I have to apologize before we start because I haven't got a haircut yet,

and I need one desperately bad. And my barber and Lloyd, I booked a time with him, and I show up and I say, I'm here for my haircut. And he goes, well, you're not booked for another three weeks. and it was my fault. I booked the wrong date. And so if I'm looking shaggy today, I told my mom, I said, don't worry.

I will, I'll apologize on the podcast, just to me. You got grateful. You think so? You got grateful. Well, thank you. Put a hockey helmet on and you'd be great. Or a hat, it's true, but of course a hat's not as professional. And you want to look professional for interviews like this.

Oh, yes. Oh, you got to look professional. Have to look professional. Oh, absolutely, absolutely coming into a studio. Well, it's funny. I didn't get my haircut for the premiere. And I'm like, I probably should get my haircut. And then I'm like, it's a virtual interview.

It's going to be totally fine. But it's funny, you know, even the hairdresser here in town, you need a haircut to get spruised up for the premiere? I'm like, I probably should. And then we couldn't do it because, you know, so I'm looking in my own way. I'm looking a little shaky. It's great.

Yeah, I didn't trim the beard hair either. I like the beard. I've wanted to grow a beard forever. I just, I can't. Nowhere near as thick as yours. It's a tragedy. So alas, at best, I do a couple days of scruff. And then it gets trimmed again.

Yeah. That interview with the premier, that was good. We like that. Mom and I talked a lot about, that. Yeah, we thought you asked excellent questions. I appreciate that. You know, I'm, I'm always in my own head. I always am like, yeah, did I ask, did I ask tough enough questions? You know, because it's an interesting conundrum. You go right at her and go out swinging. You may never get her ever. Yeah. I don't know. Somebody can tell me this. I know she's gone on Ryan

Jesperson. I know she does 630 Chad. Does she do any other podcast in Alberta? Roy Green Show. Roy Green. That's right. That's about the extent of what I know. Yeah. Yeah. So we were impressed. It's there isn't a better time to focus on the actions of the federal government. Right now, the actions of the government are horrible.

Yeah, they've given us a lot of coal for Christmas. No, they haven't given us coal. No, they've taken all the coal away. Yeah, they've taken all the coal away. Giving us a rainbow flag in our stocking. Yep. Yeah. And then nothing else.

that and here's you know a freezing basement yeah here's a freezing basement uh we were talking about federal government and we were talking about daniel smith and in the interview and everything else and and podcasters that uh have had her on before you know or having her on currently i'm very fortunate and in uh that i guess i've conducted myself in the right possible way to allow that to come back on yeah and i guess what i was saying was my thought was is like i'm really hard on myself after those interviews because like you know a good chunk of the world is going to watch it. And I just mean people that are engaged in politics, right? Because there's nobody higher in Canada right now besides maybe Pierre. Yeah. Obviously he's going to be most likely the next prime minister.

And right behind him is probably Daniel Smith. Yeah. Yeah. With regards to conservative popularity and actually just political popularity in general or at least, you know, breaking news and so on. Certainly. Yeah. Yeah. They crowd the top. Absolutely. So it's a weird predicament to have. Like go on. I'm going to talk about these four things. And then to try and hold them, you know, because she's still a politician. And politicians, oh, wait, they're employed by us. So one has to remember that. But do it in a way that, you know. That's right. Yep. It's respectful and also being effective. There's a good verse in Corinthians even about that. where Paul talks about, it's in 1 Corinthians 4.

No, yeah, 1 Corinthians 4, 3 to 4. Paul goes, I don't care what you or anyone else says about me or thinks about me or how my actions in a sense play out in your life. All I care about is pleasing Christ, that's it. Then he can judge me, and he says that's the end of it. I don't even judge myself, he goes. And so even with you having Smith on, it's the same thing, right? where you can go, you serve Christ, you serve the Lord.

That's first, and then his sovereignty will play out. So if she or another politician, after being interviewed by you, doesn't like your questions because they were too tough, so be it. You've done your job. Yeah, and the Lord will play that out then as he desires, and it'll work for your benefit. As a believer in Christ, that's what Paul says in Romans 8, 26 to 28. In all things, God works for the good of those who love him

and who've been called according to his purpose. So the wonderful thing about being a Christian is that there's really no need to ever ask yourself, what's going to happen if I, you know, if I don't please this person. That isn't the, that isn't the mandate of a Christian. Now, that can be difficult when, for example, it's a source of income or, you know, you need it to survive and so on and so on. But the scriptures are still clear. serve Christ first all others will or all all you know guarantees in life will follow yeah it's um

what you're talking about kind of reminds me of the conversation I just had with Preston Manning about about you know it's probably time we figure out what our politicians stand for yes you know and uh and and and that's asking them not to do the political game of where they give you no answer yep right like and i once again i don't know if I do that well at all. Right. I think I'm getting better is what I would say. You're good at it.

And the thing with politicians is, you know, whether they're, they're just, we're employing them. Yeah. So it's about a high time. We, you know, we've been in this debacle. And I mean, we're looking into 2024 here. Yep. And I was saying to you before we started that I'm going to put on a conference. It's tentatively, I hate to give out too many details until it's solidified.

Yep. It will be in Lloyd Minst, on Lloydminster, it's looking like it's going to be the weekend of April 19th and 20th. And it's a conference style. So, you know, bringing together people to come in and talk because I look at some of the issues we face, whether it's 2024 or just into the future. I go, some of it is navigational, right? Like we can navigate around some of them.

Sure. Some of them we're going to have to hit. Like we're going into a storm and it's like, brace yourselves. Brace yourself. And I was saying, you know, there's four key topics that I want to bring speakers in on. and that's energy, food and health, security, and then, I don't know, is it money, is it wealth? Right. But regardless, there's, we got to talk about some things.

Yeah. And with politicians, they're the ones that are steering the political ship into said storm and go, there's no problems. I mean, like, we're that dog in the meme where the house is on fire. Nothing wrong here. Yeah, this is fine. Yeah. You know. Absolutely.

Oh, you listen to what almost any politician. is saying right now, right? We always take Trudeau as an example because he's so generous with his example. So Trudeau works, Guilobo works, Christophriehlins works, all of them work for good examples of telling us that things are so much better than what they actually are. Like we've heard so much lately about all of these housing, this housing accelerator fund and these new houses that the liberals are building to save us from the housing crisis. It's nonsense. It's a nonsensical strategy. It's not going to work. And the housing market is so much worse even than what the liberals are talking about. They make it seem like their saviors. They say we're going to do this, that,

and the other thing, building all of these houses to make sure that the housing crisis is annihilated, when in reality it's only going to get worse every day. So typical of politicians. You know, the book club got together this morning. And we were watching, um, uh, uh, Chris Martinson and Brett Weinstein and, uh, anyways, it's, it's this, they're, they're doing, they're having a fictional debate and two of them are playing the side of like the weff and, and the other two are playing, and anyways, the quote they had this morning, I hate to use my phone. I'm like, I, I, I hate it, but regardless, I wanted to find it. It says, when people show you who they are believe them and uh i think we need to get to the bottom of a lot of things real fast

which probably should have done it 10 years ago right but here so be it yeah and so you you look at whether it's politicians whether it's you know whoever you want transparency at this point got to figure what they stand for you sure do because we're you know we're bad you know i think and i'm i i it's christmas i'm trying to be lighthearted here yeah um but i mean realistically what i look into 2024 i go yeah i don't see I just don't see like millions of dollars falling from the sky and we're all wealthy beyond belief. But there are things you can do in life. So you have the greatest 2024 ever.

Sure. And I go, we just need to realize there's certain people that don't want that for you. That's right. Buckle up. It's going to be a wild ride. It's going to be an adventure. And of course, the Christian, again, is secure. He knows his future.

That's what's so wonderful about being a Christian is his future is secure. but 2024 and beyond is going to be a rodeo. Oh, absolutely. Like, you know, what's the scripture? You talked about discovering what our politicians really believe. Christ's scripture is clear, by their fruit, you will know them. And their fruit, our politician's fruit right now is rotten. And so it stands to reason that their hearts and their desires are rotten too.

They're contemptible. They're evil. They're totally insane. Yeah, they're mad. Like, you know, like you actually can't be, like, you look at the evil that are, that particularly our federal leaders are engaged in, we cannot be harsh enough on them. I'd really believe that. Like John the Baptist, you know, he goes to Herod. Here's John the Baptist, right?

Jesus says, the greatest prophet of all time. He says because he's the harbinger for the son of man. But at any rate, here's John the Baptist, he goes to Herod, who's been very wicked, right? He's committed egregious acts of adultery. And John the Baptist pointed him and says, you all. are wicked. And then of course, displeases Herod's wife. So John's killed because of it. But at any rate, it's a demonstration of just how serious and truthful we have to be with political leaders. You know what's so curious in that story is that actually it almost impresses Herod. It does when

John says that. John's, it, or not, it's not John, Herod, when John goes to him and says, you've been evil, you've done what's wrong, you've violated the law. Herod's almost amused. He sits or goes, huh, curious. His family isn't amused, but Herod is, which I think is such a, so curious. Because I think even, even wicked men respect a man who will respect a man who tells the truth.

Or at least we'll offer them some nod. Yeah. How many people do you think, we cannot know this, but for Herod, for Justin Truno, for, you know, on and on the list of all these people way up at the top. How many people they got around them? They'll tell them what nobody else will tell them for fear of, I don't know, probably back then, death. And for now, certainly, you could be at the career that you worked so hard to get to, everything.

Yeah. They're surrounded by yes people. By yes people. So when you say Herod goes, oh, that's curious. Curious, yeah. Well, that might be one of the first people that's ever. told him a lick of truth in years. That's correct. That's the whole scripture. Look at Pharaoh back in Exodus. He's surrounded by magicians by quote unquote wise men, right? Those who tell him that

Pharaoh is divine. You are divine, oh great Pharaoh. Nebuchadnezzar, same thing. The story of Daniel is rife with that. Right. You have all of these sages, these mystics, these wise men, these counselors who offer advice to Nevid Kedazer, King Darius, Cyrus the Great, and so on and so on. They all say yes. They say whatever you want king, except for Daniel. Daniel's different. Right. Daniel, you know, one of my favorite stories in the Bible is the story of Belta Shazer.

He is Nebuchadnezzar's grandson. Yeah, he's Nebuchadnezzar's grandson. He's also an evil king. It's a bad king. So one day he's hosting a party. It's a great banquet, lavish banquet, thousand people there, you know, and they're drinking, and they're drunk, right? They're engaging in licidiousness.

They're doing all of these evil things. And as they're doing so, this hand appears and begins to write on the wall. It writes, tekel, meani, these are Hebrew words, and the last word, it's like pharsen is the last word. And so, of course, Belta Shazer doesn't know what it means. Everyone's stalled in fear because this floating hand, this huge hand, is writing these words on this banquet wall. So Belta Shastry says, what am I going to do? What does this mean? and he brings in the sages.

Sages don't know. Brings in the mystics. The mystics don't know. Nobody knows what these writings mean, why the hand appeared. And so then Belta Shazer's mom says there's a man named Daniel. He served your grandfather. He served Nebuchadnezzar.

And he can interpret this. And so, of course, Daniel isn't at the party because he's a righteous man who doesn't engage in sin. They call for him. They find him. He's an old man by this time. Walks into the banquet, interprets the messages.

and in essence says, Belta Shazer, your kingdom is coming to a close tonight. You're going to die tonight. And so Belta Shazer does. It comes to pass. Medo-Persians invade. They conquer Babylon. And Belta-Shazor is killed. And then Daniel is instituted as an high official in the new empire, the Medo-Persian Empire.

But at any rate, what we mean to say is all those years, Belta-Shazer and those kings were just surrounded by yes men, who really didn't know anything except how to play a political game. and as a result it led to their downfall. Yeah. So you look at who Trudeau and so on would surround himself with. It would be the same. It would be the same. Yeah, fools.

Solomon's son, when Solomon is building the temple, he has to tax people. He maybe doesn't have to, but he does. And he taxed them heavy. Like people are really hurting by the time that Solomon dies because they've been taxed so harsh. So then Solomon's son comes to power. and Solomon's son goes,

how should I demonstrate for the people that I'm now king? And here's how powerful I am. The old advisors say, listen, son, literally, your father taxed people heavy. Pull back a bit. Don't tax them so much. You know, make their lives a little bit easier. It's difficult enough as it is right now.

Don't make it harder for them. That's how you institute yourself as a king that they'll love. but then Solomon's son also brings in young advisors, new advisors, and they say, no, you should tax them heavier. You should say, you know, my father was actually light with you. I'm going to make you work. I'm going to make you, you know, pay for all of this and that and the other thing.

That's what you should do, says the young advisors. And Solomon's son takes the advice of the young advisors. He doesn't take wise counsel. So it leads to Israel's right. destruction. So I think the same would be with Trudeau. Yeah, surround yourself with rules. Yeah, you just, you just look at all the things we continue to do in society. And you go, Madness. Where is the wise counsel? Yeah, that's exactly right. It's madness. It's like, it's madness. It's not just wrong. It's completely insane. It's completely inverted. Everything's

inverted. Good is bad. Justice is what's called unjust. Righteousness is put for evil. Evil for This is Isaiah 520. It happened back then too. Woe to those who put good for evil, evil for good. Light for dark, dark for light. Bitter for sweet, sweet for bitter. It's the same story. Nothing changes. It's the same story. Being a Christmas day, Christmas in the air. Yes. What pops to mind from your brain on a day like Christmas?

I mean, I guess. It's true. What pops to mind is, of course, the story of Christ, the miraculous birth in Bethlehem. And I'm, I think it's more popular this year than it has been in recent years. Really? Yeah, I'm noticing a shift where people seem to be returning first to the spirit of Christmas. There's more, I find, even compared to last year, there seems to be a stronger Christmas spirit in the air.

And I did notice more Christmas lights. I did. Absolutely. We drove around town the other day with my aunt, my mom's aunt actually, just to look Christmas lights and yeah we were rather astonished with how many lights were set up. I put up a tree this year in my in my room for for my videos and so on. So that's excellent. Now escorting that is a hunger to understand why we celebrate Christmas, especially as bureaucrats attack it like the Canadian Human Rights Commission and the meaning of Christmas and if a man searches long enough he will

return or come back to the foundation of Christmas which is Christ, which is the story of the virgin birth in Bethlehem so that Christ might be the sacrifice for man's sin for all mankind and so save us. That's the story. That's the story. That's the meaning of Christmas. Here you have, here you have God who literally holds up the universe coming to Earth now no longer able to hold up his head because he's a human child. It's God made man.

It's the most titanic story in history or among the most titanic of stories in history. and what's so curious about it is that here's Messiah, here's the Savior of mankind, come to this little house of bread as has been prophesied, and he's everything humanity does not expect Messiah to be. So when society thinks about Messiah, thinks about its Savior, what does it think of? An Adonis, beautiful, a Superman, right?

He's got brilliant oratory, He's got the wisdom of Solomon, greater than Solomon. He has the intellect that eclipses Einstein, Newton, you know, Euler. He has the statesmanship of Churchill, he's a greater statesman than Churchill, brilliant figure, charismatic, handsome, perfect in every way according to our standard of perfect. That's who we envision Messiah to be. But then here comes this poor family, Joseph and Mary, literally coming from nothing, goes to the, ghost of the world. Bethlehem for the census, right? That's been ordered by Augustus. And can't find a place to stay, right? They can't find a room because everything's booked up and they're impoverished. And so they find

this manger, which would have looked like a tomb, curious, isn't it? And there, mankind's actual Messiah is born. It's the exact opposite of what we think Messiah should be. He comes in poverty. He comes as a weak, humble baby, right? He comes as the son of, even though, of course, he's a virgin birth, but he's born to a family of carpenters or a carpenter and poverty. He's not wealthy. He's not beautiful by our standard of beauty. He's not this Adonis, right?

Isaiah says he actually has a face that you'd kind of force yourself to look away from. He doesn't show up and then declare his conquer with millions of men. behind him in an army, right? He's a babe in a manger. And after he's born, right, the family has to run from Herod, because Herod's trying to kill all of the babies, because he's heard that Messiah has been born. So it's the complete opposite of everything we expect in a Messiah. Is that a bad thing? No. Right? Think about it. Suppose that you are a sinful world, which we are. All of us are fallen. All of us are sinful according to Paul and the story of Adam and Eve. Why should our vision of who Messiah should be, of who God should be? Why should that be

correct. If it's a sinful world and we're all corrupted fundamentally at our core, which we are, then why should our vision of who a Savior should be be right? Why would it be right? Shouldn't be right? If your vision is corrupted, then your idea about a Savior is corrupted too because your desire is not to do righteousness. We don't want this perfect Savior. We want one who can, in our sinful state, oblige our sin. So it wouldn't, it's not concerning that Messiah is completely different or completely opposite of what we think he should be. Rather, it's encouraging that he is because it means that he's not what our sinful expectations are. That makes sense. It's like, suppose you had a colony of brown ants and they were being tormented by this massive ant eater, right? It's unthinkable

that those brown ants should expect a red ant to be their savior. as a matter of fact they'd probably kill him because they think he's an invader when he came to the colony even though that red ant might be or is the savior of the colony they won't expect him or accept him because he's so radically different than what they believe he should be the same is true as Christ he's so radically different in his coming at Christmas

versus what we expect that mankind didn't accept him they rejected him they all rejected him and so he was put on the cross Curious. Yeah. Yeah. You know, if we made our own Christ, he'd be anti-Christ, right? If mankind was given the power to create its own Christ, its own Messiah, would be anti-Messia, anti-Christ. Yeah, Christ is everything we don't expect him to be, at least in his first birth.

So that's the first thing I think about with Christmas. The second thing is the second Christmas. That's what I actually am gravitating towards lately. Because there is another Christmas coming, right? Christ is coming back. But this time he's not coming as a babe in a manger. He's not coming as this humble, impoverished, poor child who can't lift up his head. He's coming as this mighty conqueror.

You read Revelation 1 13 to 16. I haven't got there yet. You'll get there. And that description of Christ, Revelation 113 to 16 is my favorite description in the entire Bible because it's so vivid and cutting and powerful. John is looking and he sees this man. He's the son of God, he sees Christ, and he's wearing this white robe, golden sash round his chest, hair is white like wool, as white as snow, eyes are like blazing fire, his feet are like bronze,

he's got a sword coming out of his mouth, he's holding a scepter in his hand, and he's coming to dominate and conquer. It's the second Christmas. It's not the same as the first. It's much different. In the first instance, Christ had to run from Herod. In the second instance, Herod will be running from Christ, and Christ escapes Herod in the first instance. Herod will not escape Christ in the second. It's very exciting as a Christian.

So those are the two things that have been, that have captured my attention this Christmas. It's how radically different Christ is and what we expect him to be and the second Christmas that's coming. I find it, you know, as normally I'm the guy sitting here going, I see more trending towards X. Right. I find it interesting. find more people trending towards the Christmas story? Or at least searching. Yes, at least searching. Yep.

Yep, I think it's taken a much larger precedent now than it has in years past. Because everything else from man, all of his rules, all of his attempts to save himself are proving false again and again and again and again. You can do this, you can do that, you can tell the truth all the time, you can be nice to your family, you can get a lot of presents, you can go visit. it's seniors in the old folks home, all of those things are excellent. But the longer it goes on, the more man realizes it doesn't save him. It's not working.

So he needs something else. So he keeps searching. And eventually, if he searches long enough and earnestly enough, he'll arrive at Christ. And that in Christmas, of course, is so explicit. That story. You wonder, hmm, that's an interesting thought, I guess, is just where I'm sitting here. it's an interesting thought you know

it's only a year ago that I probably wouldn't have talked about the Christmas story you know yeah yeah no absolutely

it's yeah I laugh at myself all the time you know it's it's been an interesting the podcast is just an interesting journey in general

you know sure and you've become you know there's a handful of you now that have become where you come on well

repeat repeat repeat offenders is probably not the right way to put it, but repeat guess because I enjoy the conversation so much. Yeah, so do I. And I mean, you're sitting here in Lloyd, which, you know, I feel like I'm regurgitating the same, the same thing I said last time.

But it's when it's sitting here, you know, it's almost like an embarrassment of riches to have you, yeah, I'll be in next week. Yeah, perfect. It's great. You know, like, I wonder how Rogan feels having everybody in Austin now. You know, like, it's just like, hey, you want to come in next week? Like, I'm sure it's,

you know, in a very small sense, I feel very honored and lucky that I have the ability to just like, all right, in you come. So do I. It's a blessing to come in here. It's always a highlight of the month, honestly. It's so much fun. Yeah, chatting with you. It really is. Because the questions are so much, they're so interesting. And the conversation's so interesting. It's not superficial. It's not superficial or fake. Yeah. You can sense so quickly whether or not someone's desire or investigation is earnest and whether or not their intentions. say with the mainstream media are malevolent or not. You can tell if they're trying to catch you in a trap or if they're actually curious about what you're talking about and learning more. And so obviously with you, it's the latter,

which makes the conversation so exciting and fun. And Christmas is a great, such a, yeah, it's such a prevalent topic. Like I say, I hope nobody, like, what will happen is people listen to this at some point, right?

I just hope on Christmas Day I open up a, I don't even know if I'll open it up. Right. you know, I just hope it's close to zero. You know, normally I'm like, I'm the complete opposite. Yeah. How many people tune in today? Yeah.

I hope it's, I hope everybody this year is really spending some time with family and friends and. Yep. And enjoying it, you know, like we got, like, the weather is wild right now, you know? Yeah. I mean, it's, it's like, enjoy that for what it's worth, you know? Absolutely. And I am. We walk together to the, to get water here.

And I got a sweater. It's perfect. Fantastic. Yeah. So, it's, it's a wonderful time. Yeah, those two stories have caught my attention. The third may be being the discussion around Mary. I've heard some of that stuff too lately, right?

How, how, well, of course, particularly with Catholics and so on, how they pray to Mary, because Mary's so central. No, here's what's so curious. You read the Christmas story when the angel comes to Mary and gives her this command, not the command, but this, here's what's going to happen to Mary. You are going to bear a child. You're a virgin, but you're going to bear a child. He will be the son of God and so on.

And the first thing does, or the first thing Mary does, is decrease or work her hardest to decrease her level of importance. Right. You read Mary's prayer. The whole prayer is, in essence, I'm nothing, right? All I care about is that Almighty God might be glorified and that his name might be made great and that I might be not remembered. It might be this humble servant of the Almighty. And that's it. Now, of course, it's been completely reversed today, right, where Mary is venerated and she's exalted among everyone else.

People pray to her, right, as a way to get to as a way to pray to Christ. They pray to Mary to intercede on their behalf for Christ, even though the whole purpose of the Christmas story and the life of Jesus is to ensure that doesn't happen. Paul's clear when he writes to Timothy, 1 Timothy 2.5, there is one God and one mediator between. God and man, Christ. That's it. That's all. So that's been, that's been interesting too, right? The stories of the scripture, not the stories, the story of scripture is, Christ is our intercessor. The Holy Spirit speaks for us on our behalf. That's what Paul says again in Romans 8, right, 26 to 28, 1st Timothy 2.5 and so on. Christ is our intercessor. No one else. That's that. I have, I'm so awkward in this conversation.

Because I'm like It's not that I This sounds really terrible You know like I'm just like I see the Christian world How they go at each other And I'm like I don't understand

Yeah I know I was I gotta think about this Like It's funny You know everybody knows I've been reading the Bible Yeah

I've been reading the Bible And I think it was Forgive me I believe it was you Who said You know If you get bogged down That's a good thing

That's right. It is. So I've been stuck in John. Great. So, you know, I don't know if I've told this story, but, you know, in the Gospels, John was my favorite. I was like, how are you going to tell this? Like, my thought was, I'm going to read the same story four times. And then, you know, yeah, okay, yeah, okay. And I got to John.

And I was like, oh, man, this guy can write. He can write. The first five verses of John. And gold. Not realizing it. I, maybe I'd been told it in passing. Like, now that you say John wrote Revelation, I'm like, oh, okay. I actually remember that.

But for some reason, it didn't like lodge in the brain. And so I'm going along the Bible. You know, and I've said this lot. Sometimes I'm just like, and then I hit James, and I was like, man, that one let me, like, that was fun. Short, quick, but just so well written, so just beautiful. And then, you know, you're kind of going on it, and all of a sudden, John comes back. And I don't know why I didn't clue in when I saw John. I just assumed different John, which makes zero, maybe make.

sense. I don't know. It's some days I'm like I'm on it and some other days I'm like completely and I start reading it and it's almost like I have the same thought. I'm like, this guy can write. Yeah. And then I flip to the front because it kind of gives you a breakdown of who it is, you know? And I'm like, yeah. It's John again. No wonder I like this guy. Right. I've been stuck there again, you know, and it's funny. Like when I read the Bible, I just, now, there's going to be a ton of Christians that are like, well, you got to get here first and you got to go look at this script. And it's like, sure. I haven't seen where he says I get to go do a whole bunch of things.

Like I just, I haven't, and so I have a hard time interjecting my thoughts into this part of it, because I'm like, I actually don't know. Right. Like I'm not Catholic. Right. White's Catholic. Right. Right.

Didn't grow up Catholic. Grow up going to Catholic church once in a while with friends, you know, but I also went over here and I went over there. And I just keep seeing, you know, like, basically have your relationship with God, find it through the word, go back to the word. everything relates back to the word. Every time you think you got to figure it out, chances are you got the, you know, you got something in your eye. Stop worrying about the log in somebody else's or the speck in somebody else's, the log in your eye, I think is the scripture.

And I'm just like, okay. And I'm waiting for it to point out in the New Testament specifically where Jesus goes, oh, and by the way, this, this, this, this. But I haven't found it. I don't know. So I'm like, if I haven't found it, it feels. like it's the world doing what it does and really, and so I come back, I'm awkward in this part of it because I'm like, I don't know. I read the Bible. I don't try and, you know, at times I get told

I'm a little preachy, which is fine. I think it's great. Well, you know, it's whatever. I'm not, I'm not upset about it. Right. It doesn't even bother me. It's just like, well, it's kind of like I'm holding on this idea and it's just kind of seeping out. Yeah. And that's all I do. Yep. And I haven't found anywhere in there where it's like, but you need to do this. I do like the where two or more gather, I will be there, shall be there. One of the two. And I'm like, hmm, I like that. Yeah. Like that's a, that's a, that's a line.

Yeah. Yeah. So come back to Mother Mary thing, you know, and praying to her and everything else. I've heard all these different arguments from people all across the spectrum on why you do, why you don't. Right. I'm like, I don't know. Right. Test, test, just test against scripture. that's what I'd say. Test, test, test. That is the truth.

That is the truth. I know I got some Catholics listening right now. They're just squirming and I'm going to be getting blown. Listen, if you're listening to this on Christmas Day, put your phone down. I don't want to be text on Christmas Day. I'm not going to check it. I'm going to put my phone away. Probably going to put it away for a while.

Yeah. But if you want a text later on, that's totally cool. And if you want somebody from the Catholic side to come on, totally cool. I'm sure Tanner would love nothing more than to have a Catholic in here to sit and go back and forth. Maybe that's what we should do in the New Year. Be fun. Sure. But yeah, test the scripture.

Or test against the scripture. That's the truth. Right. You might have, so we go to church. A pastor says something. Curious. What a strange thing to say. We look at the scripture.

And what he said was contrary to scripture. He's wrong. Scripture's not wrong. He's wrong. And he might say, I have the backing of how many church leaders. I have the backing of how many intellectuals, thinkers, doesn't matter. He's wrong.

We just had 100,000 people go to COP 28. Yeah. That's signaling for the slow removal of fossil fuels. Yeah. And the Pope was supposed to be there. Right? He couldn't be. He was sick.

Like, even not. Okay, so there's a huge uproar right now in the Catholic world because the Catholic Church has just affirmed or has allowed the blessing for homosexual marriage. Now, that doesn't exist, right? Marriage, by definition, is a union. between a man and a woman. So the term homosexual marriage is logically incomprehensible. It doesn't make sense.

Like by definition, it's not a marriage. At any rate, that, of course, is so anti-scriptural that we, I've watched on YouTube a lot of bishops, right? A lot of Catholic commentators rushing to actually condemn this action because it's so anti-Scripture. It's so contrary to what scripture teaches. So there's just so much more important. in the Catholic Church with regards to the hierarchy of church, of the church, of Pope, Vatican, and so on, that isn't present in my evangelical Christianity.

Of course, my, the evangelical world's not. In my relationship with the Bible. Yes, that's right, that's right. I'm so, where I'm at with reading the Bible, I don't know if I've ever said this aloud, but I'm like, the world is so bureaucracized. So bureaucratic. I'm like, I'm the extreme when it comes to my faith. I'm like, no, nobody's, no. It's the, I test every, you know, when it's like, so we had Barry Wanchon here, right?

Yeah. Comes on, talking about prophecy. Some people loved it. Some people hated it. I get asked all the time, what do I think about it? Yeah. Like, I like having Tanner on. I like talking to Joshua Allen.

Mm-hmm. Shut up to Layton Gray. Yeah. There's more, and I feel sorry. I'm sorry if I'm forgetting people. Like Seth Bloom's another guy that I, bouncing. And you wonder why? Because every time they tell me something,

they bounce it right off scripture first. Every time. Yeah, it has to be. Like, go go read this. It isn't something else. And so with the prophecy, is it, does the Bible talk about prophecy? Yep. Yes.

Yes. Right, of course. Lots of prophecy in the Old Testament. But I don't know. I'm hesitant on a lot of people entering my life. Yep. That I can't just go, where is it? Yeah, that's exactly right.

Where is it? That's exactly right. And so when it comes to Vatican and all that, jazz and the hierarchy, it's like, it's for the pigeons at this point. I do not care. Right. Because we'd be laughing or we'd be, it doesn't matter if it's Catholic or just like evangelical. Almost anything, yeah. Any of these structures.

Yeah. At some point of being corrupted folks. No, it's true. There's so much corruption. Do the reading for yourself. Yeah. This is my thoughts. Take it or leave it.

But it's like, do the reading for yourself. yourself. Yeah. Yes. Start doing that. That's exactly right. And see what it comes of it. And then maybe you can start asking better questions. Yes. I'm not there yet. Like with all the Catholic stuff and everything else, I'm not there yet. I just, I know that I can't enter into this huge theological discussion. Yeah. Because I'm still working on it. Yeah. Read the scripture. Test against scripture.

So that's the advice for anyone. You know what's funny? I was telling, um, so I'll be a little bit coy here. But I was, I called Tanner. I woke it up one night. And it was like two in the morning and I was just so wide awake. Like I mean, not like anything weird had happened. I just, you know, I woke up and half the time you're like, oh, it's time to go back to bed.

You kind of curl in and out you go again. Yeah. I woke up and I was just like, I couldn't shake Tucker Carlson out of my head. Sure. So I was, you know, I was like, I sat there. I must have, they just sat there in bed, like annoyed that I was so like, I've been dreaming about it. I don't know.

I just so forth. So I got up, fine, I got up. Fine, fine, fine, I'm getting up. Getting up. Walk to the couch. I sit there and I'm thinking about this. And I'd, with Tucker specifically, you know, like, I was just kind of in this weird spot of, maybe you get, maybe you get to host with it.

You know, and this weird idea, you know, placed in my head. And I'd wanted to bring him to Lloyd. I was like, I wonder if I could bring him to Lloyd. How much money would you need to do that? And I'm starting to figure it out. Anyways, here I am at 2 in the morning. Yeah. And I'm figuring this out.

Finally, I just pull up my phone on. I'm doing the math. Like, I am wide awake, folks. And before I do the math, I go, I pray, I just go, you know, if this is you, make it undeniable. If it's not, that's totally cool, I'm going back to bed. And, you know, the number that came up

when I was trying to figure out how much tickets would cause, how many people you'd have to have. a certain ticket price with 6666666.66.6.6.6.6 repeating. And I'm like, well, that's, I'm like, well, that's pretty, okay, I hung up, I turned the phone off, and I just went. And then the question I'd had to you at that time was like, do you think God will speak through mechanical devices and numbers? Right. Because like, one of the things about Ottawa when I was there, when I was having my lowest point, I remember

seeing six, six, six, six, everywhere. Ah, yes. It was, it was intense. Yeah. It's a strange feeling to talk about it because I did not enjoy that day. No, sure. And so when it comes back, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six, six. Yeah.

Repeating. I'm like, uh, okay, you know? And it's funny. It kept trying to present itself in different ways over the next. Eventually, I just kept praying about it. Yeah. And Josh Allen's like, are you at peace? I'm like, ah, I feel like I'm actually like a ridiculous piece.

Yeah. To me, that says a lot. I'm like, hmm, thank you. But I go back to the original question about the number and on a phone. And, you know, like people will look into, you know, I saw, it used to be me, I saw a feather on the ground. That means this. And then you go over there and this. And all sudden, everything, you know, like.

Yep. Everything turns into a conspiracy. There's, okay, so, so Alan's comment about peace is excellent, right? Christ is like, my piece I leave. This adds in John. peace I give to you, my peace I leave with you. I don't give to you as the world gives. He says, I give you peace. So follow your peace. That's true. And then the Hebrew says that God is spoken to us through his son. So with regards to a lot of these quote unquote prophets, right, the test for

a prophet is do his prophecies or her prophecies, if she's a prophetess, come true. And it's not a 97-year-old woman is going to die in the next few years. That's not a prophecy. Right. A prophecy is Isaiah 53, which talks in detail about the suffering. servant of mankind, who Christ is, right? He'll be literally pierced in his side. That's how, that's how detailed just that chapter of prophecy is. And of course, there are countless prophecies in the scripture. And then the scripture itself says, God, spoken to us then by his son. Everything he said is in this word. If, again, someone utters something that's contrary to it, it's wrong. Now, your comments on, for example, a feather, or seeing six, six, six everywhere. One of my favorite chapters

in any book is called the maniac. I'm not saying you're a maniac, but it's called a maniac. And it's the second chapter of orthodoxy, Chesterton's orthodoxy. He wrote this while he was an Anglican. He's about 30-some years old, I think, when he wrote it back in the early 1900s.

And he talks about how, it's so easy for men to see meaning and absolutely everything. And he says, those sorts of men are super rational. They're not irrational. they're super rational, but it's very dangerous because like I mentioned, all of a sudden you start seeing a conspiracy and everything. That feather fell there. My hat wasn't put on straight. Someone winked

at me. I could swear they did it. I'm seeing numbers in the wall. I see that there are six bricks, you know, on the wall behind me, and there are three layers of bricks, so six, six, six, six, right? It's easy for us to start seeing pictures in absolutely everything. And so we miss the actual picture that's in front of us, if that makes sense. We can be so zoomed in on something in particular that we fail to see everything else, right? If you go to a mountain and stand as close as I am to the mic, I can say, this mountain is small, it's gray,

but there's not much to it. That isn't true, of course. It's just that I'm focused so closely on one particular section of mountain that I can't see the entire thing. If only I could step back and look at the entire, you know, solid, supreme structure, this massive rock, would I realize just how mighty the true picture is? So, while it's true, of course, that, I mean, the Lord speaks to us in scripture,

man is to follow his peace, the Christian has to also be careful, just as any man has to be careful, of seeing things everywhere that might not exist. So the advice is simple, pray about it. Yep, pray about it, keep praying about it, and search earnestly. the Lord will reveal the answer. Yeah. That's, that's, that's the advice. I think Alan's advice is great.

It's perfect. Follow that piece. Now, okay, but, but even that, you test against scripture, of course, right? If your piece says, I'm going to go to the bar and get hammered, that's not, that's not a scriptural piece because the scripture condemns it, right? Your piece will never, a true piece will never be in contradiction with scripture. Let me, let me ask you, in a different way.

When I first met Joshua Allen, it came by like coincidence. There is no coincidence, right? That's true. So like within, it felt like 24 hours, maybe less. He'd heard about me before I called him. And I'd heard about him before I called,

you know, and you kind of get the idea and this like weird synchronicity almost, if you would. Worked out. And then boom, off you go and running. Now, Josh Allen would say, divine divine

God made this happen so would I so we can we can agree on that but if it had been why come back to the number thing where do you fall out on that

I'm more I'm more open than some people like than some Christians are some Christians will say Almighty only speaks in the scripture that's it don't look for signs anywhere else you're right don't look for things anywhere else

whereas there are certain times I think we talked about this in the phone call, where you just know the Lord is telling you something. Again, it's your spirit's restless, something happens that doesn't give you peace, or it does give you peace when you do it. And so you know, it's just, you know that the Lord is, I don't quite know how to describe it, except by the witness of the Holy Spirit. Yeah, now I'm not, I'm not someone, you know, again, who is a charismatic prophet kind of thing, not at all. But Yeah, almighty works in mysterious ways.

For example, here's an example. Here's an example. I have a good friend who's an atheist. I met him in school. Nice guy, really nice guy. Smart too. And I met him for supper actually at, there was a large supper, but he was there a couple weeks ago.

We talked about objective morality, him and I, all night. It was a lot of fun. Anyways, a few days later, he gives me a call. He says he's had a dream, and he says his dream is about Christ. I won't go into it because it's a long dream. All he knows, you know, the crescendo of the dream is he's in the dark,

he's in darkness, and there's Christ, and there's a little child with Christ. And Christ is taking this child by the hand. Christ is glowing. He has a purple sash on, which makes total sense based on the scripture. And he leads this child through the darkness. This is his dream, or at least part of it. He tells me about it. And I said, what did Christ look like?

He says, I don't know. I couldn't see his face, which always seems to have. He says, but I know it was Christ. So in that regard, I have no doubt. This is an atheist. Yes. So I said, I have no doubt that Almighty was speaking to this friend of mine in that particular way.

Absolutely. Even though that wasn't, he opened up to scripture and read, I have no doubt that was the Lord moving or is moving in his heart and speaking to him that way. What a brilliant picture. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think obviously God knows us all intimately? Correct.

Correct. Absolutely. Can't argue that? Can't. Even, even if you. you don't think there's a God. Even if you don't think there's a God. And depending on where you are and the beliefs and everything,

if you believe or you don't, I think we can all agree that if there was a God, there is a God, wherever you're at, you would say that if that is true, then they would know you intimately. Because they're all knowing, all seeing on the present. Absolutely. Absolutely. That would mean that he would know

that you'd pick up or I would pick up on a number and a phone. it does instead of testing it by scripture because maybe I'm not there yet because let me flesh this thought out just a little bit more because what I did was I opened the Bible that that night and nothing even remotely memorable like went on I don't have this experience of like all of a sudden you flipped open the Bible and it's like yeah do not go here right like I mean that didn't happen yeah but the phone thing did yes and me and the number 666 have a real personal history. Okay?

Now, for some people, that doesn't bother them. Right. But for me, it really sticks out. When I see it, I'm like,

oh, it's a significant number in the Bible. Yes, it is. And you go, okay, so if we can agree, he knows each,

everybody personally. And let's say somebody does follow the feathers. Now, I'm not saying, or whatever, I don't, I don't care.

I'm not trying to single out anyone here. No, yeah. So let's just say that's where they're at. Yep. And he's trying to lead them to the safe pastures. Yes. Would he work through then, knowing that the weather is going to lead you to eventually

get to where you're like, listen, just turn back to the scripture every single time and I'll show you. But you're not there. So we've got to dabble breadcrops. Yes, just, yes, that's a good way of putting it. Just look at the story of almost anyone's conversion. Something opens their eyes to the fact that they're lost, you know, or what would be a good example? even a father, right? Let's suppose you have a father. This isn't, I'm paraphrasing a story that my mom knew from camp where these kids came to camp.

This is back in the 80s kind of thing, became Christians. Their parents weren't saved. They go home. The parents see such a monumental change in the attitude of the child, that that enough, or that alone is enough for them to start searching and start looking, Almighty knowing that that's exactly what would happen. Or, you know, maybe it's, who knows, maybe it's the fact that you cut off someone and he didn't get mad at you. And on the back of his car was a bumper sticker that says Jesus saves.

You go, why didn't he get mad at me? Jesus saves. Take a look at that. Oh, there are an infinite number of ways Almighty can work to lead a man to the cross. That's certain. That's true. Just as there are a number of ways that a shepherd can track and find a lost sheep and bring him back to where he's supposed to be. But the fact remains, it has to be God who does it. It's

Almighty who does it. That's the scripture. That's John, John 6th. It's just funny to me. You know, I'm like, I'm almost laughing at myself right now because like, literally asked for it. Like, say, undeniable was the word I used. Yes. I remember it. Yeah. Like, make it undemiable. Yeah. Like, you know, because I'm really conflicted here, right? Like, I know what I want. Yes. But I'm also, you know, in the sense of the spirit, I'm like, I'm really conflicted. Like I don't, you know. And then that comes up on your phone. And it's, and just personal history, that number means, I understand it's in the Bible and everything.

But if I hadn't, I don't know if I've read it in the Bible yet, 6,66. No, you, it's not to Revelation. There you go. So I haven't even seen it yet. No, you haven't. That's true. Which means, you know, like, just. And the funny thing was as soon as I saw it, I went, like, I was immediate.

Right. I was like, well, actually, I was, I was like, I saw it. And then I was like, okay, so six and then all of something like, I look. back and I'm like oh okay hung up the phone like put the phone down and went back to bed yeah like I just immediately yeah it's funny then the day after it just kind of nagged on me and nagged on me and nagged on me yet it was so crystal clear when you think about it when I say it aloud I'm like I don't know how much crystal clear it can get yes that and that is that's a story of scripture too where men are praying give me a sign give me a sign lord now this is this is for this is for general salvation

not for something in particular but they'll go give me a sign I need a sign I need a sign and Jesus and Paul both addressed this, right? With Jesus saying, you guys have so many signs. If you, like, you look at the prophets. Jonah is a sign. And yet you still won't believe. He's like, I have given you every sign. And it's still not enough, right?

The story of Lazarus, the man who goes to, goes to, well, Hades. But anyways, he dies, this rich man, right? Lazarus. Or sorry, yeah, the rich man and Lazarus. This rich man goes to, not hell, but it will be hell. And he's suffering, right? and he sees Abraham up in heaven, or Abraham's bosom, and he says, tell my brothers about this place, so they don't come here.

And Abraham's like, they have the signs. They know they already have sufficient evidence. If they won't believe the prophets like Moses and Daniel and Isaiah and Joel, then they're not going to believe anyone. And then finally, Paul says the same thing where he's like, the whole of creation is your sign. No one at the judgment will be able to say, you didn't give me enough evidence.

That's not what the scriptures teach. It's you had ample evidence. You had more than enough evidence, even in a snowflake. And it wasn't enough for you to believe. So in the same way, so often it is that we say we pray for a sign. God is generous. He gives a sign. And then we go, was that the sign?

You know, that's interesting. And so Augustine then, Augustine has. But it's so true. But it's true. I literally just played it. I'm just like, I'm a moron. You know? No, but it's like.

Yeah, I know what you mean. So then Augustine finally says, you know what, just love the Lord, search the scriptures and do as you please. That's his quote. Love the Lord and do as you please. So, you know, I used to have a lot of conflicting issues too where I go, should I do this, should I not do this? Should I do this? Should I not do this? And it drove you mad.

So eventually, I was so glad to read that quote from Augustine where he's like, just love the Lord. You know, search the scriptures. And then do what you think is right. Do what you believe reflects the scriptures. And it'll work out. It'll work out. But it's funny. I wanted the hand of God.

to be like, like, Gideon, yep. I need, because I can't see, you know, what my problem was is I was just so conflicted. I want to be very clear. I'm not saying Tucker Carlson's the devil. Right, no, no, right. Just my involvement of like how hard I was thinking about it

and like maybe I should try. I just, it would be a lot of work and money. You get the point. Yeah. This has nothing to do with Tucker Carlson. It has all to do with where I was at in my mind frame of like, could I do this? Could I maybe, right?

I was thinking about all these different things. Yep. And I was conflicted. That was why I was conflicted. Yeah. And so it's funny when you, when you, I just want to, it's the Frank Peretti story about the book. Yeah.

That was so clear to me. It's like I walked out of there and I went, holy man. Yeah. Now trying to get a hold of Frank Peretti folks. You know, if anyone knows Frank Peretti, like, and it's funny how many people have asked me now. Yeah. You got Frank Peretti?

Yeah. No, I've not got Frank Peretti. I'm working on. I'm working on it. Yeah. Like some, some old Frank Peretti is hiding out somewhere in like Idaho. Yeah. And he's, he's just like, nah, this Sean Newman.

guy keeps like badgering all these people who is this kid it's just like i just want to say thank you that's all i want to do um but regardless yep it's funny you you pray on things yes you know literally go i just i could just use some guy because i can't i can't see right some days i feel like man i can see i can kind of see where i'm heading picture is clear other days it is the worst fog you've ever seen and you just can't see 10 feet in front of i'm like i don't know how to steer clear out of Yeah. And how much of it is me wanting this? Right.

And how much of it, because when, you know, sometimes, that's kind of weird, it's Christmas, whatever. Yeah. Sometimes it just feels like I'm being pulled that way. Yeah. Joshua talks about his, what does he say, being set on fire by God, right? He talks about just being like being, and some days I don't know what the heck he's talking about. Yeah.

And other days, I really feel like I'm pulled a certain. direction. Yeah. Other days I don't feel any pull. Other days I'm like, I have no idea what I'm supposed to do here. And usually at that point in time, I pray. Like, I'm like, okay. Perfect.

All right. Let's pray a little bit. Let's see what comes, right? Like, I don't need an answer now. Absolutely. And that's one of the moments. And in those moments, then my next question always is, how do I know this is you?

Yeah. No, it's true. Like, it's true. I actually don't know if that, like, you know, and you ask for signs, you ask for different things. Yeah. and you get one and then you walk completely by it. It's the story.

Who was it? Was you telling me the story? Who told me the story about the man in the flood on the top of the house waiting for God to come save him? And first it's, you know. Oh, sure. I didn't tell you it, but yeah, I know the story. The boat comes wherever it is.

We can get you out of here. We get a helicopter and eventually. Waiting for God, yeah. And that's exactly right. Oh, yeah. Again, that's like scripture, right? God tells Abraham you're going to have a son. Here's my sign.

Here's all of these signs. Abraham says, great. And then he breaks face. Right. And instead he has a child. with Hagar. Now the son for Abraham comes later, but even still, Gideon's the same. Give me a sign, Lord. I need another sign lord. Give me all of these signs. Yeah, it's just, it's where men look for a lot of evidence. Yeah, it's true. And then when the evidence comes, we have a tendency to ask,

is that really the evidence? Yeah. Yeah, it's the doubting, doubting mind. Or it's the, yeah, the mind that's just cautious. It's a funny, yeah, it's a very mysterious, very mysterious thing. That's why everything has to be tested against Scripture. Well, the one thing, where in Scripture you can tell me, does it say that, you know, darkness will disguise itself as light or something along that line? Yes, it's in Corinthians. Because I came across that, and I'm like, that's something, you know, in today's age. Yes, because you were just in Corinthians, weren't you?

Yes, it was. First or second? It's 11-4. I think it's either, I think it's second Corinthians. I think it's 2 Corinthians 114 is what I think it is. And it's Paul saying, don't be deceived. Satan himself is disguised as an angel of light. That's the scripture.

So we have a tendency to say, well, a thing is evil, so it has to be scary, has to make us afraid. It doesn't make us afraid. This really bugs me when I can't remember what I'm talking about. And once again, I'm laughing at myself because I pulled out the Bible because I'm like, it kind of comes with me everywhere now. It's great, fantastic. I think it's Second Corinthians.

Second Corinthians, you think? Let's try Second Corinthians 11-4. I'm not 100% certain on that. Let's see, folks. Here it is. We should create a new game called Tanner. This one I'm not quite certain on. 114.

4 if one comes from preachers. No, not that one. Try. How well does Tanner know the Bible? Hey? How are we doing? I can put it into Google. Don't.

Yeah, do it in Google. It might be 1st Corinthians 114. For some reason, 114 is ringing a bell. This is a good game. This is a good game. What's the scripture? What, like what I search? Just search up, Satan comes as an angel of light.

That'll be enough. And then put verse. Second Corinthians 1114. Oh, shoot, it was 14, not 4. That was, I tell you what, that's close. That's close, but it's not right. That's close. Okay.

No wonder for even. Satan disguised himself as an angel of light. Therefore, if it is not surprising if his servants also disguised themselves of servants of righteousness whose end will be according to their deeds. There it is. There you go. Again, yeah, it's, I go back to Sauron because he's such a good example. How does Sauron disguise himself?

He's an elf. He's beautiful, right? He takes on that appearance. He's just a stunning figure to look at, gorgeous, until, of course, he becomes this monster. But either way, he just, it's just, it's a beautiful. It's the same as true as sin and evil and darkness. It's the funniest thing. It's not frightening in our eyes.

It would be better if it was, but it's not. But it's not. But it's not. It's alluring. Yeah. Now, for the Christian, it shouldn't be alluring anymore. Right. Then when Christ comes and saves the Christian,

the blinders are gradually released from his eyes so that he can see the true nature of evil and sin. And men do too, even when they're unsaved, right? All of their pursuits. they recognize are actually futile, right? All of these tragic souls who sleep around and so on, it all leads to, they're all depressed. They're sad. They're, they're empty.

You know, a couple of things come to mind here. One is, that's why I test every, like I test, and then I probably retest. And even when I get the, I'm like, was that? Like, how do I know, right? What a, what a strange thing, because as I explain it, you know, as I talk it a lot, I knew. Right? I think I knew. Yep.

But you're also hesitant. because the flesh wants what it wants. It wants what it wants. And that's a tough thing. It is a tough thing. You're like, you know, so how much is it me questioning him and how much is it battling what I actually want? And what I would say with all that is I find

when I'm in the rhythm of waking up, praying, reading, things just seem to go smoothly. Absolutely. And I was just thinking in my, as you're talking, I'm like, and when I fall away from that, just ever so slightly. Yeah. The wants of the flesh doesn't.

Yes. Yes. Really come at you hard. Yes. And you made that, I don't know if that sounds strange to anyone else. But to me it's like, well,

you know, just in a simple sense, you, you binge eat a ton of food. Yeah. And so then you feel crappy. And then it just starts to cascade. I guess where I'm talking about spiritually

is if I don't do, you know, what is it, what is it, feed yourself on the word? Yeah. You know, yeah.

It's funny. I don't know. Yeah. but that's your, your, your experience isn't unusual. Paul in Romans 7 is so clear. I have these desires of the flesh, he says, and I don't like them. They, my body does what I don't want it to do. This is Paul, who's probably one of the most, if not the most sanctified individual of all time. Right. He's like, I have all of these struggles because my spirit wants to do one thing, which is good, and I know it's good. My body, on the other hand, doesn't want to do good. It wants to do evil. And so day by day, I have to mortify,

this body so that it doesn't do what it wants. And then the longer a man spends in the word, you know, the more sanctified he is, the closer he comes to Christ, the more easy it is for him to decipher what exactly is fleshly and what is spiritual or what is from the flesh and what is from the spirit. That's interesting, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So as the, you know, the Christian ages like fine wine are you supposed to where the closer, the older he gets, right, the closer he gets to heaven in a sense, the closer he should be to Jesus. And so his spirit should be, should conform to a larger and larger degree to what Christ is or who Christ is. It's the opposite of what a non-Christian is, right? A non-Christian, the older he gets, the closer to hell he gets.

So he gets darker. Whereas a Christian should be the opposite. His spirit should brighten. His countenance should be kinder and softer the older he gets. You'll know the tree by the fruit by the fruits, by the fruits. Yeah. And what are the fruits of the spirit? Love, joy. peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, self-control, all of these fruits, you'll know them by. And they're all, they all take work. They all, yes. I don't know if, I'm trying to rattle, go through them all in my mind that you just rattle off.

Yeah. Do they all take work? Like, is it all as hard as I'm saying it is? Yeah. But to me, it takes conscience effort. Conscious, is what I'm getting at. And it's, it takes conscious effort. And again, the difference between the wisdom of the world is that the wisdom of the world is that the

wisdom of the world says you do things outwardly and inwardly you'll change the christian says do things inwardly and outwardly things will change everybody notice it everyone will notice it focus on the spirit first you have to and then your outward actions will materialize that change whereas the world says sweep the streets what else you know be nice to strangers do all of those things outwardly and then your inward spirit will change that isn't what the scriptures teach it's the exact opposite. So man who tries to sanctify himself through works, through the outside actions will fail. He'll find he's not sanctified. The man who tries to sanctify and grow closer to Christ by working on the spirit first will find that the outward actions follow. Yeah. Again,

it's a complete inversion of what the world thinks. Complete inversion. Just not talked about. Not really. I mean, sure, I don't know. And if you go to church, I suppose it's talked about. Yeah, no, even then, not enough. It's every self-help book, of course, right? Self-help books are so often written by people who can't help themselves. And in them, they talk about how to live better lives. But it's always focused on the external.

It's always focused on doing on the things on the outside. Then your inward life will be better. I'll agree with you a bit, but I also would say it's not entirely true on self-help books. I'm thinking of all the self-help books I've read, you know, like go to bed early, get up earlier so you can win the day before and all these different things. What I would say is, and maybe I was not receptive to it a couple years ago, but nowhere did I read, you should really focus on your spiritual self first and get that, like, fixed. You didn't read that. I didn't. Right.

I don't see that. Yes. So I guess I don't know if that's all externally. right like going to bed and I guess do you consider that externally because you're talking works I look at like Jordan Peterson clean your room right clean your room is working on yourself in you know in a metaphor but yes okay so then what's the purpose of clean your room and that and his book even 12 rules for life what's the what's the purpose of it if you can get yourself organized right then you can begin to help others and you start at the

smallest sense, which is you, your room, then the rooms in your house, which then obviously translates into your, you know, the first room is you and your wife, then to your kids. Right. And once you get your house in order, then maybe you can start to branch out a little bit bigger. And then start helping others. Correct. Right. So then when you test that with the scripture, but I, I'd have to go back and I have to apologize, well, I'd not apologize, but I don't, it's been a while since I read that chapter. Right. I don't think he says in there anything spiritually. Maybe he does. I'm going to hear a whole bunch of texts on it. So maybe he does and I just forget that. Right. To me, he's, but when I think about the analogy of what he's talking about, that's exactly what he's talking about. Right. Now,

what would Christ say? What room would he have you clean first? It's the body. Christ wouldn't say clean your room first. He would say clean up your temple, right? First Corinthians 6, 19 to 20 says your body is a temple. Now, that's a room. That's a room that needs to be cleaned. And Christ would say, instead of cleaning your room to then clean up your life, the temple has to be cleaned first. You have to be clean first, and then the life can be cleaned up. And I think it's funny. What I hear when you say that is I hear Jordan Peterson speaking it in a different way. Right. Because he talks about going to the darkest parts of your soul. Yes. Which is cleaning up, you know, yourself.

Right. Now, what's the, what's the major difference between Christ's version of clean your room, your temple and Jordan Peterson's, is Christ says you can't clean your room. I have to clean it.

You have to clean it for you. Versus Peterson, who would say, you clean your room, you do it. Christ would say you can't. And I would bridge the gap saying, you have to decide to clean the room,

which is getting Christ to do it. Yes, that's, yes, Yes, that's been a debate that Christians have waged for probably since the dawn of time or since at least Christ came, which is the scriptures say two things for one. Yeah, you do. You have both. Like this is one of the wonderful. If you don't choose. That's right. You're quite correct. And the scriptures agree with you. Right. In Peter, first Peter. Maybe it's second. That one I don't know either. First or second, Peter. It's a very well-known passage. Peter says, God's patient with you because he doesn't want anyone to perish. He wants all to come to repentance choice. Adam and Eve choose to sin, right? Paul says, believe in the Lord Jesus today, your choice.

But at the same time, Jesus says in John, 6, again, 35 to 40, all those the Father gives to me will come to me. And Paul says in Ephesians 2, 1 to 10, actually, but particularly 8 and 9, and Ephesians 1, 4, and 5, that we've been predestined for adoption to sonship to the Father. And our salvation is the gift of God. He's given it. He's given it to us.

you know, all of these things. And so both exist at once. I firmly believe that. There is so often this debate between Calvinism and Armenianism and, you know, is there choice? Is there not choice? I think it's both at once. It's a paradox.

It's like light can be both a particle and a wave and God makes the world so that free will and his sovereign choice exist at the same time. I have no problem accepting that. In fact, I think it's the only way to understand salvation. I really believe that. As paradoxical as it sounds, it works. Yeah. Yeah. So you aren't cleaning the room. It is Christ who cleans the room. You believe in the Lord Jesus. That's absolutely true. But God said this is a man who's going to be saved. But don't you have to let him enter the door? Yes. But he has to, he's the one who opens it. If man is blind, well, you know, it's better to save man's dead in his sin. That's scriptural. Dead man can't move. Can't make choice. At the same time, man makes a choice.

choice. Yeah, that's a real, that's a real. It's, that one has split, that one has split Christians apart that problem. And I don't think it should because, okay, so again, back with the Corinthians. Why is it, I'm just going to say, why does it matter so much? Yeah. I mean, like, we're having a fun little debate here and I go, at the end of the day, I'm not going to go to, Yes. Like, to me, how you get there is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is the, is, is the, is, is the, is the, is, is the end of the, is, is, is the end of, here we are, here we are. Yeah, yeah. Is, he knows. Mm-hmm. Everything, right?

Yes, he does. So, beginning to end. Beginning to end. He knows how this is all going to go. He certainly does. So he knew I was going to go here, here, here, here. He certainly did. And yet I still have a choice, but he knows the choice I'm going to make.

That's exactly right. And the scriptures say, yeah, God has chosen whom he's going to save. But they also accept his salvation. It's both at once. But I like your comment on whether or not it matters. Okay, so back in Corinthians, this is now 1st Corinthians 3, 4 to 5. The church is having an argument because some of them follow the teachings of a man named Apollos. He's a very eloquent writer and speaker.

And others in the church follow the teachings of Paul. We don't know what the difference is, or at least I don't, what the differences in the teachings are, but there's some difference, whether it's superficial or what. So Paul writes them a letter, and he says, why on earth are you arguing about whether or not Apollos is right or Paul is right? He's like, what? Are you servants of Apollos?

It's like, do you follow Paul? It's like, no. All of you follow the Lord Jesus. That's first. That's, you know, you're not disciples of Paul. You're not disciples of Apollos. your disciples of Christ. So stop letting this issue separate you, separate yourselves.

So in the same way, often when there's these large debates, not that I've had them, I don't actually think I've really had them, but sometimes at camp you would have them. And we'd ask the same question, right? Do you follow Calvin or you'd ask that question, right? Do you follow the teachings of Calvin or do you follow the teachings of whoever you're arguing against, whatever it might be? And they go, well, actually, we follow Christ.

And it's like, well, great. There's no need to. Isn't that the right answer? the right answer. There's no need that I think the division is harsh on this. It's unnecessarily so. I really believe in the paradox. Both exist at the same time. That's true

for a lot of things. Virgin birth, that's also a paradox. But it would also mean I don't know. This is, I am in the weeds right here. Great. The Calvin side? The whatever other side. How many sides are there? Lots of sides. Okay. Too many. But he would know in that.

Sorry. He would have known that. Yes, it's true. And so all these sides, you go, well, why would he allow that. And you go, well, that isn't for me to know. That's true. At the end of the day. Yeah. But it's like Jordan Peterson. Yep. Some people do not like Jordan Peterson. Right. Some Christians really do not like Jordan Peterson. Like, you know how many people Jordan Peterson is brought back to the Bible? It's insane. Right. It's insane. To start reading the scriptures again. And that means that if he knew. The Almighty knew. Yes. Yes. Yes. No, it's fine. Yep. That he was using Jordan Peterson to get to a guy like Sean, because Sean wouldn't have

come back willingly. Right. He can even use Nebuchadnezzar. That's a description say. Right. Pharaoh. So we all get stuck in arguing about this, but it's like at the end of the day. The mystery is so great. Who is at the top? Right. Who is sovereign, supreme. Who do we all agrees there? Yeah. Okay. If you think it's somebody else. Right. Give your argument for why. And at the end of the day, as long as you're not trying to impose on me, your beliefs, then we should be able to walk about our lives as human beings and carry on. Should we not? Do you disagree with that?

Well, my question is, do you think it's possible to? For a society to live in which one group doesn't impose its beliefs on another. So let's suppose that we have a politician or a group of politicians in power. and their belief is no one should impose anything on anyone. But that's a belief that's imposing something on someone. And if you don't impose laws. Of course. Now you can have murder and everything else.

Now that's, you know, that's an interesting thought. It is. So Trudeau has, Trudeau, of course, believes in this perfect multiculturalism when every culture or where every culture lives perfectly harmoniously with the other. Sure. That's not how culture works. there are some cultures that say we will not assimilate. We will not countenance living beside this particular culture.

And Trudeau's imposition of all cultures can exist simultaneously is itself a culture that doesn't accept some cultures. And when you put it that way, you know, like, you're right. You need to, I come back to, I'm like, you need to have a rock. You do. You need to set something on the foundation. You will have a foundation. And that's why the Judeo-Christian values of Western culture are stared at and go, are we going to wipe this all out? Right.

You're exactly right. Judeo-Christian values allow for any number of different religions to operate in our society. Right. Correct? Correct. But we all agree or we did once upon a time that we had Judeo-Christian values. Right. We have religious freedom in this country, but the country is built on Judeo-Christianity or a Judeo-Christian worldview.

That's correct. That's correct. It's almost paradoxical. There are so many paradoxes. Now, here's what's so curious is that that Judeo-Christian worldview is being, of course, dismantled in the name of the Judeo-Christian worldview. Right? So we have all of these foundations of Canada that are being destroyed because the foundations of Canada allow for the freedom of religion and the freedom of thought, the freedom of expression, which, fair enough. but it's at the point now where the foundations of Canada are destroying Canada or they're being justified to destroy Canada. It's being justified to destroy Canada. It's like using mathematics to disprove mathematics. Doesn't make any sense.

It doesn't make any sense. You will have in any culture, any society, a group that imposes its beliefs upon another. You have to have a foundation. It's just the way reality works. What foundation will that be? what culture or what what what system of beliefs will that be is the question can we talk about i mean obviously if we can but discernment that word sure can people like is that i don't know i don't know

the proper question here everybody have that like is that a standard thing a standard operating system in a human being is like oh you have discernment no i don't think so i mean based on the way based on the action some people make or the choices they make. No, I mean, there might be some level at every, there might be some level in every individual, but the degrees of discernment that individuals have varies. Here's the definition of discernment for people. The first one says the ability to judge well.

Okay, that's one. Two, in Christian context, in parentheses, perception in the absence of judgment with a view to obtaining spiritual guidance and understanding. The first is simpler. I like the first one. The ability to judge well. So what does that mean?

It means you walk into a situation, a salesman says something. Yes. And you sit there and go, something feels off and you trust that feeling. Or you start to see the fruits of the tree essentially. Yes. And you go, hmm, I like that. To me, the podcast, have tons of people come and sit across me or screen. Yep.

And I use it all the time. of like, yeah, I don't know. Yep. Yeah, you do have a gift for discernment. That is true. But does everybody? Right. Because the audience, I lean heavily on the audience.

The audience is sharp. Right. Well, they were very poor in discerning that Christ was Messiah. That's certain. Fair. That's certain. I'm curious about the definition again. What does it mean to judge well?

What makes a judgment good? what makes a judgment accurate. We could say, this snake, or not the snake, this salesman feels slimy. It doesn't, you know, on its own, it doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. Maybe he is slick,

but why should a slick salesman be something to avoid? And how can we trust our judgments on its own? How can we trust our judgments to lead to any sort of truth? Like what if our judgments, if we isolate, if we just take a look at mankind, mind. Why should we suppose that our judgments are geared towards any particular objective? That is,

why should our judgments be focused on truth? We say, I have a, you know, I'm judging this man. He doesn't seem truthful. It gives me a bad feeling. But why should he? Maybe our judgment should be skewed instead towards posterity, evolution, survivability, who knows what? Why should they be focused on human flourishing or goodness or righteousness, what might have you? And my answer, is I think without a, without Christianity, a foundation, it's impossible to say so. If that makes sense, it's confusing, but... What does? I just... It's like reason. Reason itself, you know, we hear so often that reasons defeated faith.

The age of reason has defeated the age of faith. Reasons a matter of faith. Why should we take it on... Why should we take it that reason leads to truth? You have to take it on faith that it does. Why should reason not instead lead to, like I mentioned? new evolution or the extinction of society or the flourishing of society who's to say it should lead to truth who do you think should lead lead the nation and i don't mean a specific person i don't mean like pierre should like i don't mean you to if you were you know take loit let's just take yeah okay they're gonna have a we're gonna have i don't know folks we've fallen into

uh weird times where we're just going to have a leader of lloyd and they're going to make decisions with a council around them. You can get into the democracy of how it sets up. Sure. Who would you want to see at the top? Yeah. Whoever doesn't want to be there.

That's the one. That's the one who doesn't want to be there. Yeah, I want the one who doesn't want the job. Who's good at it, who knows he's good at it, or she's good at it, but doesn't want it. It's just the story of scripture. Moses, Joseph, Daniel, Nehemiah, David. Joshua. And what did they all have in common? None of them wanted power. None of them sought it out.

All of them were given it. I mean, the foundation is they all believed in the Lord. That's the great foundation. But none of them. None of them. They all believed. None of them sought power. None of them sought power. And then when they had it, they didn't want it as, you know, they tried to get rid of it. Or they were very hesitant with it. Yeah. Moses didn't seek it out. He was called from a bush. Joshua was the successor of Moses. David was anointed by Samuel. He was a shepherd. Daniel was taken into captivity, into Babylon, and then forced into his service with the king. Nehemiah was a cupbearer for Xerxes, or Artaxerxes, and so on and so on. The ones who want it are dangerous, because it's under Tolkien, quote, they're those who should have at least not one in a million men is fit to boss around

other men. Not even the saints, says Tolkien, is fit for it. But he says, at least they didn't want it. That's, you know, that's the, that's the plus side in their eyes. Yeah. So the one who wants it should have at least. Now, democracy is funny because you have to run if you want to be a leader, even if you don't want the power, right? So there's a, there's a, it's a difficulty there, you know. That's a, that's a, that's like an internal struggle. Yeah. Yeah. Like, do you want power? No. Yeah. But I mean, here's here's, here's, here's power for it. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a Lord of rings. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's the ring.

Of course. Have the ring. Of course. I could do such good. You know, like, what does Gandalf say? You know, I would use it to do good, right? Right. My fear is I try and use it to do good.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Don't tempt me with it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So, Boramier's the most, you know, he's the most human character of all of them. Yeah. Because he, man, what a great book series that was. Yeah. Because he's, you know, it's just what all of us would do. Have you watched the new, um, leave the world behind, the Julia Roberts. No. A movie?

No, is it good? Well, it's dark. Okay. So a cyber attack happens. Right. You know, and for folks who haven't, it's a Netflix movie that the Obama's helped. They're like executive producers on, right? And so, you know, the summary of it is, is a family of Julia Roberts, Ethan Hawker, married couple with two kids, go out from the city into, I think it's upstate New York.

to an Airbnb that's like, as my wife and I were watching, like, right, because you could afford this place. It's like a, you know, it's like a billionaire mansion. But it's an Airbnb, sure. And while they're there, the owners of the house come back because there's been, something's happened. And they have no, they have power, but they have no internet access, et cetera, et cetera, et et cetera.

And, you know, and this story just unfolds. There's a whole bunch of things I'm going to miss. Sure. But essentially a cyber attacks happened on the United States. and they realize they're going to be stuck together for quite some time. They use the Elon Musk Tesla car to block highways, and they do on and on. And the things that really, you know, like overall the movies, you know,

people are like, are they telling us something? Right. Because of the Obamas are behind it. Right. Are they predictive programming all these different things? Yeah. The thing that really bothers me, and I don't know why I'm so sensitive to this right now,

is Julia Roberts and, man, I like the actor. I'm going to look it up real fast because I really like the actor. I won't be able to say his name. Julia Roberts produced it as well. Mahershala Ali. Oh, yeah, okay. He played in True Detective and I think he was the piano player in the Green Book. Green something.

Right. And he's a fantastic actor. So anyways, towards the end of the movie, Ethan Hawk is smoking weed with the daughter of Mahersel Ali. Okay, okay. And she's saying, you know, have you ever slept with this student? before and you know he kind of laughs and whatever and you're like this is a like

why is this in the movie? Why is this in the movie? And then Julie Roberts and Myrhusel are getting drunk and they end up dancing together and she's like I'm married and he's kind of like you know and they have this weird like Mel's like literally like she literally goes like really yeah and I'm kind of like why did that need to be in there

right of all the things they're trying to say so my my annoyance with the movie is less on the scale of what they're talking about and whether they're foreshadowing something that's going to happen. Mine's more of like, like they're literally having... Right.

You know, like... I guess I'm like, I would love to see, you know, one of my favorite movies of all the time to flip just for a second is... Oh my God, I'm spacing on the name. The time travel... Oh, God, Sean's brain is not working right now.

And the reason why... I'm going to look down. You've got to... plot? Yeah, a guy his family can time travel back. It's Rachel McAdams. Oh, I don't know. You don't know that movie? I'd be honest, I don't watch a lot of movies. Okay, fair enough.

To be honest. About Time. Okay. Okay. This, this, I'm hopping here. I'm taking people on a wild ride today. Merry Christmas. About Time is, is this awkward guy over in Britain. Yeah. And when he comes of age, he realizes if he goes into a quiet spot, he can time travel

back in time. Okay. And he can alter things kind of, whatever, and on and on. And his dad teaches him, it's just a very clever movie. Very clever. I've watched it several times. And the first time, I love time travel. I love the idea of it.

My wife thinks I'm a dork. And I tell you what, you can give me the most sappy romantic rom-com, which about time is. But with the cleverness of time travel, I just love it. So anyways, he's going back and forth and whatever. And in his childhood, he had this, his, his, um, sisters like best friends, this gorgeous girl. He always wants, you know, it's like, just, and along the way he meets Rachel McAdams.

Okay. And as the story plays out, he meets her again. And she's attracted to him, and it's leading towards where he's going to have an affair or whatever. Sure. And Mel always does it. She's like, oh, don't, don't. And then he does the right thing. Right.

He doesn't do the bad thing. Right. He's an honorable human being. Yeah. What a great idea to have in a movie. Right. And I see it less and less. And so, like, if you're going to go watch a movie on Christmas, go about time.

Like, about time is fantastic. Because I don't know why I'm sensitive to it. Yeah. But, like, to me, there's too much in the world right now that lead us away. Yes. From a whole bunch of values. Yes. One of them is, like, is marriage.

Yes. It's like very. Absolutely. And so if you're going to watch a movie, so the thing that bugs me about leave the world behind, is there, like, in this stressful, and I'm just in this stressful situation, and they show this. And you're like, why? Yeah.

Why put that in there? What does it have to do with anything? Sure. It has nothing to do with anything. Sure. Other than they're like destroying the family unit. That's what I see. I just watch it.

So you ask the movie. This is a very long five minute go on this. It's true. Like the movie, yeah, the storyline, interesting. Yeah. Like I don't know. Like I see parts of that and I'm like, they're not far off on a couple of these things. Yeah.

But the marital side of it, the, the characters there. Sure. Although decent. like I like the actor and actresses. I don't get it. No. At all. And I think this is where society breaks down.

When you see the family unit fall apart in such a cravatose way. It is. Absolutely. Why is the movies like about time where it's like, you know, that gets it. That movie gets it. Yeah. Oh, it is. You look at what our leaders are doing.

The assault on the family is egregious. They hate the family because a family is its own little unit of sovereignty. It's separate from. the dependency on government. Family is the structure of society. It's the foundation or one of the foundations of society. And children rely on their parents instead of relying on government, which means government can't exercise as much control over them as what they would like.

So if you can destroy the family, if you can increase single parenthood or single person parenthood, right, and therefore tragically impoverished so many of these broken up families Who else can they rely on except for government? It means all of this new power, all of this new control, right? They hold the person's life in the palm of their hand with a dollar or $10 or $100 or a food stamp, what might have you. And so I have absolutely no doubt that our leaders work their hardest to see that the family is destroyed. Absolutely. That is one of their fundamental attacks.

Look even at the transgender revolution, right? it means that reproduction is impossible. That's just the nature of it, right? It's the whole idea. Look at the right now the wave of, have you seen all of these videos where these 30-year-old individuals talk about how happy they are not having children?

Yeah. Tragic. It's tragic. It's selfish. It's wrong and it's completely anti-human. They have no idea what they're missing. Yeah. And methinks doth protest too much.

They know. They're lonely. And it's very, I mean, again, I'm not 30, but, but, you know, you listen to testimony and it's very lonely, the older you get without children. Yeah. You're going to, you know, your cat's not going to hold a funeral for you, right? You're not, um, there's no fulfillment in raising an animal, like raising a child.

They may think there is. They might think there is, but there's not. There's, um, you know, uh, I wish we could have more kids. I mean, you can adopt for sure or you can foster, but, uh, um, you might think there is, um, you know, But, you know, I don't know, am I the insane one where we've had three? And there are days, man, where I'm just like... And then, you know, and I'm happy Mel agrees on me with us. If we could, we'd probably have four.

And if we had four, we'd probably have five. Sure. Because there's just something about the chaos inside a house when it is full and buzzing. Sure. That it just makes life worth living. Yeah. And honestly, I never... It's one of those things you can't see until you're there.

Right. Vance Crowe may have talked about this before because he was, Vance, if you're listening, I forget how old you were when you had your first and he just talked about, like, I had no idea.

Yeah. And you really have no idea because, you know, like, the adventure of life when you're young, you can go wherever you want, whenever you want, you can sleep on a floor, you can sleep out on a park bench.

Sure. He is wild. You can just go. You're living it. I mean, you're not sleeping on a park bench. No, but. But, you know, like, it's,

it's, you think life is tough. Yeah. Until, you know, You got mouse to feet. Yeah. And you're being pulled 12 different directions. You got a sick kid. You got to run to the hospital in the middle of night.

You know, dad always said, you know, you got all these, you know, like he's truck drive for a good chunk of his life. Sure. And they got, you know, like, fit to work. Yeah. And you got to have so many hours off. And he goes, yeah, this is a load of BS. Like, think about the guy with five kids. Oh, that's me.

Yeah. And how much hours of sleep you got last night? How are you going to protect against that? Yeah. You can't. Yeah. Right? You're worried about the guy going and doing drugs and everything else.

Meanwhile, the family man is going as hard as he can. He's getting very little bit on his sleep. The sleep he does get half the time the kid crawls in the bed kicks you all night. And you wake up and I looked at my face this morning when I was coming into work. I'm like, I look like I've been run over by a truck, you know? And all it is is just, it's just kids. That's all it is. And yet, would you change it for the world?

No. Right. Right? Like, what did the old timers tell me? Yeah. Enjoy these years. Like they look at the stress and probably fatigue on you and they're like, I'd go back to that in a heartbeat. Yeah.

You think about that. You're like, hmm, yeah. You know, like better cherish that. Yes, absolutely. Again, look at the scriptures. Christ is so clear, let the little children come to me. They're fun. They're great.

It's a fantastic blessing. And they have a stronger faith than most of you, adults, ever will have. They have this brilliant childlike faith. If only you could be more like children, then you would move mountains. Because they take things, they take, I mean, when they can't believe in what they can't see. That's right. And they believe it fully. Children are so serious. It's fun. Right. Of course, like, you know, when you, when your daughter hosts a tea party, you make sure to have tea. Even though there's nothing in the cup, there is, there is tea in the cup because that's what she's decided. And you wouldn't dare, um, uh, demolish that what she believes. Have, uh, have you heard the song, uh, have I told you this story about driving in the vehicle? I don't know. I don't, I don't know. Um, I'll pull it up here.

It's my son's favorite song right now, which is really strange because I'm like Christian rock. Ah. I'm not a fan. Like overall folks, I'm just not a fan. I'm the same. I'm like,

you know, but it's funny. I've been sent a few different songs, and some of them really stuck. Sure. And it's Build the House by Ross King. Okay. I don't know it.

Okay, I'm going to play. Just a, just a second of it. Okay. Okay. So we're driving the vehicle. Yeah. It's a catchy little tune. Like, I think it gets better than that. Yeah, yeah. The general theme is, the Lord don't build your house.

Great. It'll fall. It'll fall. And you can, man, if I could just go back in time, which I can't, and pull up my camera before it happened, which there's no way I could have possibly known. Right. And just film the conversation, Mila, my six-year-old and Shade my seven-year-old, we're having back and forth. Yeah. To hear it, she goes, you could just see her, like, thinking about the words.

because I don't listen to lots of times folks I don't listen to it. I like the tune. Right. So it's a catchy tune. Yep. It doesn't matter what the words are saying. Yep. I like the song. Right. Whereas my wife is like my daughter. Right. They listen to the words first. Yeah.

Which is really, you know, like if you just listen to it. So, yeah. Anyways, her face kind of screws up and she can tell she's thinking, what does that mean? Uh. And then the two of them. Yep. I don't even get to interject my thoughts on it.

The two of them, now a seven to six year old, are having their discussion on why if the Lord doesn't build. And you know, I'm going to be. honest. Yeah. We're not this big giant church family. Right. We're not this, you know, like this is new. Yep. And so I'm watching these two children. Yeah. Have this wild discussion. Profound. Profound. Yes. That's the only way I can explain. Like it was, it was, man, if I could live in that moment, which you can't. No. But it was, it was such a cool moment as a parent. And I, I was like,

man, these guys know more than I do. Yeah. There's like, oh, profound conversation. So many children, they know so much more than we give them credit for. Profound conversations. That happened at camp all the time. You'd be doing something. There'd be 100 kids there every week. And you'd be doing something. And out of the corner of your ear, you'd hear some kid utter something so galactic that it, you know,

you have to stop what you were doing. Because where did this come from? Yeah, it's true. Yeah. Brilliant. Brilliant minds. You know, the cool thing, you know, wherever, hopefully, you know, The thing I think about is like, although I can't explain the moment, I can't show people

the moment, whatever, someday, hopefully, you know, like the catalog of episodes here, my children, if they so choose, will be able to go back and listen. And, you know, like, are they going to remember that moment? Probably not. Right. Like, it's just another moment in the endless moments of time. Sure. But for me, that one sticks out. And there's certain ones that just stick out where you're like, I don't remember that for a long time. Absolutely. absolutely sacred moments I was

later this week Clay Smiley will be on and you know Prophet River yeah yeah and I was telling him and I guess maybe I'll ask you this sure I was saying to him

the power of belief like you don't understand what it means so if I believe in Tanner and give him the opportunity to come in here and talk then maybe that takes him somewhere he never would have been before

That's power of belief. And it can be really, I always think of about it in hockey. As a young, small defenseman, I got cut an awful lot. It took one coach to believe in you and off you went. Right. And so I go, that's really, really special. Yes. And so I had Clay Smiley in here and I got this wonderful opportunity to say to him.

I'm like, thank you for, he gave me $50 once upon time and people hear this story. Yeah. And for him, it was inconsequential. Right. I can remember the look on him. Oh, 50 bucks. Here, here, have 50 bucks, you know? Okay.

But for me, it was like a belief in the idea I was going. It actually set me on fire. Now, the original idea didn't work. Right. But I got to tell him about, you know, and I wonder, in your world, has anyone ever done that for you? Where the belief in, I don't know, you, has set you on course to somewhere else. Well, like, well, I'd say my point. parents, prop mom and dad, for sure. I'm trying to think whether or not, I'm trying to think whether

or not I use the term believe in you. I think it'd be for us, it's more accurate to say they believe in the Lord, obviously, and so they believe in the task that we think he's set before myself or Hunter, whoever else it might be my brother and so on. That's what I would say. And so even though there are times when it's difficult to continue on this path or it's you can doubt or whatever it might be they return to the yeah we return to the rock to the almighty and that has been such an encouragement because it takes then all the um so much pressure to perform away and we just instead you rely on the sovereignty of the almighty that would be more accurate yeah so yeah um you're right about the power of belief.

Now, as a Christian, of course, I say, you know, we can believe in a man to do this and that, but only one man to raise us from the dead. That's where Christ says, here's the real test. But you're trying to make a career out of spreading the gospel, I would say,

but also on commenting on the world that it be. The current state of the world. And you go somewhere along the way, somebody's probably stepped in. Yes. And been like, why don't you come speak here? Or whatever it is. Because I really like the way you do things.

Right. And you go, yeah, that opened up this door, which I would have never had that chance. Yes. And that little bit of belief in what I do really changed the trajectory of how the road was going to go. Yes, that happens every day. Oh, yes. Whether it be, whether it be, you know, a particular member of a nonprofit group that's heard me speak and says, you should speak again. Or I'm giving your number to this person because they should have you speak at their.

organization. Do you have one that sticks out or you don't have one? No, I don't have one that sticks out. That's interesting. I don't because it's happened, it's happened so often. Um, yeah, honestly, I, honestly I don't. What a, what a, I don't know, I, I don't know. Yeah, I'm trying to think hard here, but. And I'm trying to, like, that's either one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard, or one of the most sad things I've ever heard. And I can't actually quite make out my mind on that. Right. Because, Although I agree that it happens all the time. Yes.

There are some that are just pointing in your mind. Yeah. Yeah. No, honestly, I don't. And again, as a Christian, I don't believe in myself. So I would never say, put your faith in me, believe in me. I'll get it done. I would never tell that to an investor or someone who wants to have me speak.

Because I don't even believe in myself. So I couldn't do that. Yeah. Christ doesn't say, I believe in you. He says the opposite. believe in me believe in me never once that's such a that's such a new age philosophy just believe in yourself christ would say i believe in you no no no no that's actually the first few words of that maniac chapter i was talking about maybe belief isn't the right word then for what i'm looking yeah

because because i'm like you know the ripple effect of your actions in a day yeah can really send people off on different courses for their entire lives and for your entire life absolutely not just for an hour and so Clay Smiley

I pointed out and maybe I use the word but it's just it's kindness it's like I don't know the right word sure but it in a small little way

it just pushed me yeah led to a chain of events that's put you where you are right now in the smallest possible in the smallest microcosm it's like a butterfly effect

I think is what they call it in mathematics Yeah, it seems to be insignificant. Because, you know, if you go back to the big guy knows all. Yes. I got to put Clay Smiley in front of him. And then this is going to have any knows. It's just going to take time.

That's correct. That's absolutely correct. Like, you can, he knows all. The Christian says he also ordains all. And then man goes, well, man doesn't have a free choice then. Well, he does. It's both. It's the most beautiful paradox.

probably my favorite paradox that exists, at least that we know of in the world. Yeah. Yeah. I'm looking at ordain. Past tense, ordained, ordained, when to mean? Not ordained. I like that you look up definitions.

That's good. Be precise. I'm like, order, why does it say this? This is the definition. Make someone a priest or minister confer holy orders on. Oh, yeah, sure. To order of a decrees officially. But that isn't...

God gives a decree to the world, how it will operate, how it's going to work, what's going to happen. That's the whole basis of prophecy. Order prescribed, determine. Pre-determine. Yeah, okay, sure. That works. Works well.

Yep. So you have both. You have... Isaiah, the prophet, says that the suffering servant will be, you know, martyred, in essence is what he says. It will be pierced in the side, we'll reject him and so on. You have the Pharisees, when Christ is alive, acting under their own volition, who reject him, sentence him to die, pierce his side with a spear,

and he gets the Romans to do it, and they fulfill the prophecy of Isaiah. Work at the same time. And it's so confusing that at the end of Romans 11, when Paul talks about that kind of, He says, really, who can know the mystery of God? Yeah, it's futile. Yeah, it's futile. That's right. But I mean, it's such a, you know, it's such a fun topic.

It is. You know? I never thought those words, that string of sentence would come up. But, like, you know, it's just such a large part of the world. Yeah. And we, you know, we certainly talk about it more than I did a year ago. Sure, sure. Yep.

But, like, it's such a fascinating, fascinating thing. because, you know, the more I talk about it, I find the more people have had their experiences with it. Right. And they don't talk about it because you'd be labeled crazy. Yeah. They're going to label me a whole bunch of things. Whoopty-do.

Yeah. You know, let's figure this out. I mean, not that you can completely figure it out, but you can certainly point yourself in the right direction. Absolutely. Absolutely. Any final thoughts on Christmas Day? Merry Christmas.

Christ is alive. He came first as a babe in a manger, powerless. weak, everything opposite of what we thought he should be. He proves himself to be the fulfillment of prophecy, the fulfillment of law, gives himself up on the cross, it's his purpose for coming to earth, proves himself to be the Messiah, by his resurrection that the scriptures discuss,

offer salvation to all mankind, that those who want it will have it. And he's coming back. There's a second Christmas. It's imminent. And this time he's not coming as a helpless child, but as a God, as God himself, as a conqueror, to take back the world from all unrighteousness and evil.

So repent and believe the gospel. That's the final word for Christmas. And your crude master final question here is, what do you got going on in 2024? Busy. What do you, if people were, I don't know, whether it's fall long or what are you excited for? 24.

Book coming out in January. Well, we've got to have you back up. I know. Do I get a pre- copy of that? Absolutely. Put it in the studio. Absolutely.

It's called Kingdom of Kane. And any more teasers on this? The subtitle is Escape the Insanity of Progressivism. And do you know what date yet is launching? You know, actually, I don't quite. I'm hoping as soon as possible because I have about 115-ish or so speeches next year. just on the pension plan that are booked. And I want that book there at all those events.

Man, you think of how much you're going to, like, saying this, folks, if you've never seen Tanner on stage, I put them in a very, I just like how you approach it. Oh, thank you. So like, you know, some people get a miffed when I go, you get 12 minutes. Yeah. Like 12 minutes, how do you expect me to get through?

And I'm like, well, I expect you to articulate what you're talking about. Like, I mean, it's pretty self-explanatory. Now, in fairness, some speakers, I've learned this too, right? This is an evident flow that giving them 45 minutes is actually what's needed. The audience wants that. Sure. But sometimes as the guy in the background, you have to kind of tailor it because I'll sit here for five hours.

Oh, yeah. Maybe. I might not, though. That's right. And so one of the things I've really admired is your ability to get on stage and get a message across in a short period of time. Well, thank you. That is an art man. Appreciate it.

I've sat and watched people talk. That's an art. And then, you know, it showed out to, wow, I'm not going to single anyone up. I think you do a very good job of it. So the fact you're going to do it 115 times. It would be fun. Well, I just think you can go back and listen to episode one, folks, and now you're a 555. Yeah.

You go, like, there's been improvement. Yeah. And there will be improvement in you. I look forward to seeing how that goes. And as for your book, when it, you have the copies of it, We'll, uh, that'll be fun. Well, I'll try and get through it, right? I'll try and read it so that we can sit and discuss.

That'll be fun. That would be a ton of fun. And then I get to help promote something you're doing that. I appreciate it. I mean, we're helping promote anyways, but I really admire what you're doing. Well, thank you. And I think a lot of the audience does too. So I think a book coming from you be interesting.

I appreciate it. It'll be fun. Then I get to dig into his thoughts. Absolutely. What do you mean by this line? Oh, yes. Oh, yes. We discussed a few of the lines today.

That's where a few of my lines came from. Cool. Well, I appreciate you coming in. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas to everybody listening. If you're still on here at close to the two-hour mark, I hope, once again, I hope people are listening to this five days after. But regardless, if you're out working, stay safe, and hopefully you're getting home to family and friends soon enough. And just Merry Christmas. And happy holidays, folks. It's a beautiful time of year. And right now, the weather is just phenomenal. It's perfect. It's fantastic. Well, I look forward to January of the new year. We'll make sure we get that done. So do I. See you then.