Shaun Newman Podcast - #56 - Blair Atcheynum

Episode Date: February 12, 2020

He spent time with the Saskatoon Blades, Swift Current Broncos & finally the Moose Jaw Warriors in the WHL. With Moose Jaw he set a team record with 70 goals in 71 games. He was drafted 52 overall by the Hartford Whalers in the 1989 NHL Entry Draft. He was also selected in two different expansion drafts first by the Ottawa Senators in 1992 & then by the Nashville Predators in 1998. His first real opportunity to play in the big league came with the St. Louis Blues who were coached by Joel Quenneville with star players such as Hull, Pronger & MacInnis.

This is Blair Aachenham. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. This episode is brought to you by Windsor Plywood. Now, not that long ago, I talked an awful lot about them. I hadn't been in the studio for several weeks, but got back in there this week and, man, walk back in and there's the river table. I see they just built a brand new river table. It is like a dark blue just shimmers in. They're just gorgeous.

So if you're into custom woodworking headdye, down to Windsor Plywood here in Lloydminster, 3605, 51st Ave, and talk to Carly Clawson and team. They'll get you hooked up. I want to also give a shout out to Ken Rutherford Appraisals. They've been housing the podcast now for the last year. And time just seems to fly by. I got talking to Ken the other day on the phone.

And I just can't thank him enough. Can't thank his business enough. It was a year ago pretty much to the day. where we finally did the first episode. It was Ken and I just kind of sat down and I just turned the mics on. I was so excited, you know, let's flick the mics on see what happens. And, you know, and then we released it because I'm like, well, I wonder if anybody even enjoys listening to this.

And, you know, we got such great feedback. I'm sure Ken wishes I'd take it down so we could start afresh, but it's kind of cool to see, you know, how far this has come since then. And once again, just a huge shout out to Ken Rutherford, because I mean, without him and his business, giving me the opportunity to house it in his old storage room. It wouldn't be the same, I don't think. So thanks again, Ken. Now, here is your factory sports tale of the tape.

He played his junior A with the North Battle for North Stars. He then played in the W.HL for the Saskatoon Blades, the swift current Broncos, and ended his career for three years with the Moose Jaw Warriors. In 1988, 89, he put up 70 goals and 71 games. 70 goals, 68 assists, and 138 points that year. In 1989, he was selected 52nd overall by the Hartford Whalers. His NHL career saw him taken twice in expansion drafts, the first being in 1992 by the Ottawa Senators,

and then in 1998 by the Nashville Predators. He spent 10 years in and out of the minors, And finally got his opportunity in 1997 with the St. Louis Blues. At the time, had Joe Quinville coaching. Oh, yeah, I'm Brett Hall and Al McKinnis and Chris Pronger and a whole list of excellent players. His career in the NHL, he played 196 games in the show, 27 goals, 33 assists, and 60 points.

I'm talking about no other than Blair Aachenham. And I appreciate him coming into Lloyd and sitting down with me. And we had a blast for a couple hours just talking about his career. and his travels and minor leagues and finally getting his pro debut. So, enjoy it, folks. Without further ado. So the game,

um, LA, or not, Vegas and San Jose. When they scored four goals. Yes. And I'm sitting there in my basement, watching the game and I'm like,

and they're like, this has never happened before. And I'm like, yeah, it did. It happened. We were, I was in the game. We were playing L.A. Jeff Cortnell runs the goaltender. It's on YouTube. Jeff Cortnell runs the goaltender.

Sean O'Donnell jumps him. Starts punching on him. He turtles. We get a five-minute power play, and we score four goals in the power play to win the game. And I was like, I wanted to, I was like, Ron McLean was thinking, and you could see, they're saying,

it's never happy before, and he is rolling. I'm thinking, geez, just a bud, and then they went to back to break, and it never did come back. back to talk about him. I was like, it did happen. And, yeah, anyways. I should probably start this by saying, welcome to the Sean Newman podcast.

I'm joined by Blair Aachenham. Yes, you're starting to roll with stories before I get into. Jumping away ahead of the head of the whole journey. Well, did you ever think, you know, lots of ex-guise guys who played in the NHL and actually a lot of guys who played a lot of minors are usually really good. color guys because they've seen a lot of the different scenarios or coaching and did you ever think of i know you coached a little bit of north balfour but did you ever think about getting into the entertainment side of it or sticking on with coaching well not not the entertainment side i think

the mike and me don't get along real well so we're going to test that so but for the most part coaching um hockey was was my life growing up um once we're going to We got to a certain age and in my last year, Howard fizzled out and I had knee surgery at the end of that season. I had two little kids and a family and it wasn't about me anymore and I guess I could have went back to the miners again and tried to scratch out something and keep going, but at the time, I think it was the right time to quit. The body was kind of saying enough's enough and there's other things more important than playing

the hockey game. How old were you at that time? 31. 31. I think so, yeah. You know, they were talking today. I was listening to Rae McLean on Spitting Chicklets, actually, which I guess would have been at the All-Star break he was talking.

Okay. And they got talking about the NHL right now and how, you know, you don't have many guys over 30 left in the NHL. Like one of the guys said the new 32 is 27. So if you may get past 27, you're doing something right, because chances are they're trying to find somebody younger than, you know. That was my rookie season. Was 27?

Really? It was 27? Well, technically no, because I played four games with Ottawa. With Ottawa. And then I was from there, I went out of hockey and then back again. I was a 27-year-old rookie when I come to St. Louis. Do you hold, I don't know, I couldn't find this out. Do you hold the record as being a guy taking twice in expansion drafts?

Or is there another guy? There's not a record. There's a few of the guys that have done that? I think there even might be a three-timer. If you look at all the different expansion. Really? There might be one three-timer, but it was picked in the Ottawa draft and then the Nashville draft. Actually, the Ottawa draft, I was the, I never, I only played four games there that year, but I was the last guy to play in the NHL of that draft.

I was the longest running player. Player. In that draft, they'd be continued to continue on to play in NHL. Well, that was a little, a little feather in the cap. I guess so. Well, you know, geez, we jumped so, so far ahead. Speaking of the St. Louis comeback, or the, sorry, the Vagus game, you were talking. There's got to be times when you're watching games like that and you go,

I remember times like this or I remember things like that. Does that ever frustrate you? Going back to the entertainment side of it and the color commentating, you say it never ever crossed your mind, but don't you find yourself going, oh man, what are these guys talking about? They're missing this or this or this. I think what I've, I guess over the years you started to grow an opinion

in how the game has changed and, you know, touching on listening to Marty's. McSorley's podcast with you. You're discussing the Cassie and Kachirc thing. And, you know, as you get older and in hindsight, I get so much of, like, everybody talks about the skill in the game. And I'm not denying, like, the kids are skilled. They're unbelievably skilled.

But I don't, I believe back in the 80s, that skill was out there. And most of it was in the American hockey league or East Coast Hockey League. And I don't know what the proper, how to articulate it, but it, there's something said for a guy like Theron Flurry. He's the Johnny Gudrow side, but, I mean, you look at a kid like Johnny, super talented in today's game, wouldn't survive in that era. And it's, it's not, you know, and it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, the million dollar question. And Kelly Chase tried to put a, put a, put a, put a, put a stamp on, on the code with his ice Guardians thing and we watched it with him at his fantasy hockey camp a few years back. And, you know, and they sat up on a panel with Bucky and Mike Keene and Garth Butcher and

this group of guys and they're trying to explain the fighting code in hockey. And it's it's something that is kind of mystified everybody. And if you haven't played the game, it's it's hard to explain. And even as a player, but I thought Marty touched on something in the lines of respect. and he even said like, you know, in his day, you get you drilled from behind. They come to the bench and you're like, hey, you can't put yourself in that position. There was onus on the player to protect himself. I mean, the old suicide pass.

It was the defenseman that passed, the puck up up his ass that got shit. It wasn't the guy getting drilled. You know, there was a responsibility upon yourself and not expecting everybody else to take care of it. And somewhere, I don't know what would be the proper term, but you had to man up to be able to play in that league. And not saying these guys are soft, but they can be a little bit soft when you watch some of the games. I mean, I had Skip Craig on, who was Boston ruins, Buffalo.

I know Skip. Yeah, Skip's a good guy. And he, I think, you know, ever since he said it, I think about it every time I watch a hockey game. And it's Hockey Mirror Society. And right now, in our society, right like true words couldn't be spoken for sure right we don't put the onus on people anymore everybody hides behind you know everyone else pretty much right and then in hockey you know it's just

they've taken away a lot of the brutality or the toughness maybe not the brutality but the toughness of the game for sure i would agree and that is a lot of what's going on in the rest of the world that we know anyways is people don't want to see that side anymore they want to want it to be skill and speed and that's it. 100%. I think there's something there to be what you say with toughness. I guess if you just think of last year Stanley Cup, I mean, St. Louis was a team that finished your body checks and it was just,

the other teams couldn't, they couldn't deal with it. And, you know, they play a heavy game. Well, then the next team wants to mold themselves. But it's not needed a bunch of goons or, you know, six foot six guys on your roster. You just got guys that buy into the physical side, and St. Louis showed what you could do with that, I think. Well, and the thing is, I don't know if anyone can argue that big boys that compete and can get to the dirty zones and the playoffs out that wins hockey games.

I don't think anybody can knock that. It's an 82 regular season game where, you know, I, at Oilers fans know it best, right? We had Milan Looch each come, and you watch Looch play in the regular season, and he just, he's a dinosaur, right? I think I heard that term a while back. He just sticks out. But if you ever get that guy back in the playoffs,

you're going to love having them. Yeah, exactly. I think it's just the, yeah, goal scoring, I mean, you look at Ovechkin. I mean, yeah, every highlight goal is the one-timer. But, I mean, he goes to the dirty area. Sean Monaghan, he's not a pretty player, but, you know, nine out of ten goals are between the hash marks,

and he's battling. I mean, you see the guy, that fade off and fade in are those guys that like to tend to go to the perimeter and, you know, they go on a cold streak. All of a sudden they buck up and realize they got to get dirty again and get a couple ugly ones and, hey, they're back scoring again. And then generally that generates the pretty goal, I guess, as he used to go anyways. Well, and we all know when you get into the playoffs, no matter what happens, the linesmen,

the refs let just a little bit more go. And so it takes the player willing to take a little bit of abuse To get into the dirty zones to find the goal Because the easy ones slowly disappear Because now you're against the top 16 teams And then you're against the top eight And then you're against the top four And it doesn't get easier, it gets harder

Every round. That's one of the lovely things about the playoffs Is every round you go You got to be willing to take a little bit more abuse And not show it and fight through it And go to the crappy areas Your goal tender has to play a little bit better with a little more traffic and deal with the BS. My first year, as a 27-year-old rookie in St. Louis,

I mean, the first time, I'm playing these guys for the first time. First time I've ever played against Steve Eisenman, I'm like, this guy's average. You know, and I'm thinking, I can't really be thinking this, but I've been in the minors for eight years. This guy doesn't impress me. You know, it's like, I've heard so much and watched so much and seen so much, but I'm like, game one against them in the, you know,

a November game. Then we got against them in the playoffs. And that's like, holy crap. There's another level to this man that, you know, doesn't show up in September, October, but in April, it's a different player. And then I think that goes for a lot of the players that have played a long time. You know, they get through the regular season. Scott Stevens, like, was a bone crusher early on.

Wendell Clark, when their first years, they're killing everybody. But then they realize that the bodies can't withstand that for every season. And so they'd be able to pace themselves once they're established in the level of play that those guys were. I mean, they could get by kind of putting it in cruise control to a point where, you know, guys like myself, there was no cruise control when you had the opportunity. What wasn't it getting the opportunity like? You remember your first game? Yes, the first game was in Ottawa. Oh, yeah, Ottawa, right?

So I got a four-game cup of coffee. I mean, it was so short-lived that it come and went so fast that it was like a dream. And then the second time around was a lot longer. Did you ever think, you know, eight years he said in the minor before you got your next chance? Did you ever think you're going to get another chance? You know, no, I don't know what I thought. I think I was out of hockey playing senior hockey for the Soto Three Stars just north of North offered on a First Nation, played a couple games, and that was like, I don't know what it was.

There was something either a switch flipped on. I got home, I was out of hockey, been in the NHL, and I'm done. And I'm thinking, you know, my life's not over. I just kind of thought, you know, I don't feel any different today that I'm not a hockey player, but so life can go on. And then I started playing a little bit of senior with my buddies and caught on a team and here we go and going to have some fun. And then I just got a call from a team one night in Europe wanting, can you fly the next day? And then I couldn't.

I didn't have no passport. At the time, I was like, no, I don't have a passport. You know, and then a chain of events happened. An agent got a hold of me the next day. And then I said, no, don't go to Europe. You're too young. You know, go to the miners, go to the East Coast getting in shape. the ball started a roll.

But, you know, what happened when I went back is I didn't want to please anybody. I mean, I found in hindsight, I was, you know, you're not physical enough. You're not, you don't skate well enough. You know, you're trying to do everything else that everybody's telling you that you're not good enough at. And when I went back, I just said, the hell with it. I'm going to play the way I play, and if they don't like it, eff it. They can, I'll find another place. I'll just, it took my journey and by playing for myself and the way I'll,

wanted to play, was a lot more effective and a lot more successful. We're going to rewind that just a little bit. How, so where were you before you went back to senior hockey north and north battle for? Where were you the year before? Ottawa. I played four games in Ottawa. I played the year in New Haven, Connecticut in the American Hockey League for their American League team. And they just didn't sign you back? No, I had a ruptured a kidney that year. didn't, you know, we had a terrible team. And I think New Haven was put together, like, three weeks before the season for an affiliate.

Ottawa didn't, like, we didn't know where we're going, going into camp. And if anybody got sent down, all of a sudden, New Haven, we're going to New Haven, because that's where they had struck a deal for that season. I think they're there, only the one season, and then they moved up to the Maritimes. And then, yeah, so we went down there, battled away, and it was a crappy year. And, you know, Ottawa didn't resign me. and then I found myself on a tryout in Fort Wayne, Indiana for the IHL, and got there for 40 guys for one contract.

And I found myself, Kim Missel and I, an old PA-Rater, oiler guy, driving back in his car back to Saskatchewan because we were done. And I thought that was it, basically. And what year was that? 95. Yeah, 92 was the year Ottawa came in, 92, 93, 93. Okay, so 93, 94. 93, 94.

Yeah, somewhere in there. So you just went, just having one of those times that things weren't going a little right and come back and play some, and trying to go have some fun. Yeah, I just, I didn't, when you kind of quit thinking about the end or the destination and then just embrace the present, I guess, in some kind of layman terms, you know, just live for the day and everything seemed to fall. And then I guess I could, I met my wife that is now during that time, and she might be the furthest thing from a sports fan in the world.

And she was from, you know, from a hometown. And, you know, this world of hockey was, she didn't really get it. She was still in school at that time, and I was down in the minors and then come home. And she'd never been one to say, oh, it's okay, you're going to be all right and rub your back. It was like, well, okay, you don't know where to go. You're going to get moving out. What are you doing now? Like it was, and that's how she's been for her ever since.

And basically from that point, I guess that has kept me rolling in the right direction. I've always had great support from my family, my mom and dad through all the years. And then, you know, now having kids, it's just, you know, the ball can be used. A little bit of tough love always can always help, especially from spots you wouldn't expect. My wife is identical. She's in Minnesota. Until me, it's never been to a hockey game. But she's an athlete.

Give her that. But any time you start doing the pity party, she'll snap you out of that awfully quick. Maybe they related me here. I had to laugh when I was at the Minnesota Moose at one time, and she'd come down and she was going to school in Minot to visit. And she went to the game, and the wives were all sitting there,

and some fan had made a quote about it, well, how come that one referee has orange stripes on his arms? And my wife had no idea. And the lady said to him, oh, because it's his birthday today. Oh, and all the women laughed. And she was like, she didn't know what they're laughing about. So after the game was like, okay, what's that guy with the orange stripes on his arms? He's the ref, Jennifer.

I was like, oh, okay, because they made a joke and I had no idea. So that sums up her hockey knowledge on that. part of it. Sometimes that's better that way anyways. That way they're not, they can be supportive, but they can't criticize everything about it because they don't know more than you.

Well, you know what? I guess in the end, you know, one of the terms I've stressed with working in the junior A with my coaches that I've worked with and it's balance. I mean, you got to have balance in life, family, work, you know,

friends, family, so be it. I think, you know, when I did have kids, it sure changes your perspective in life as a father. You know, when I was single and playing hockey, I mean, you come home, you take the game home with you. Every night. You have a good game. You feel great. The next day you have a bad one.

You feel like crap. I mean, your emotions are so high and low that, you know, it's, you know, it's hard to, hard to get ahead. And then when she come in, you have kids, you know, you had a crappy day at the rink. You know, the door opens and you have a little toddler there smiling, dad. And it's like, you know, what's important, right? Yeah. You know, and that's where you learn as a pro, I guess, in the inch other. It's like you leave the work at the rink and, you know, you have a tough day.

You're there a little earlier the next day and you do some extra work and you bust your hump and get your ball rolling back in the right direction. Yeah. I've been known to have a little bit of a temper. on the ice and I got a three kids under four so she's a little busy but they come to the rink now and when dad gets thrown in the penalty box they're sitting there tapping on the glass wondering why I'm there right and it's hard to be mad when your children are sitting there you know going dad what's wrong yeah um nothing really actually right like that's right I actually have found it's calm me down quite a bit because uh when I was younger I was I don't know short views I guess on the

ice, but now at least I find, I puts things in perspective. I'll use your words, right? It really, really does. I mean, it doesn't take away the compete level, but it does, with children, they test your patience at awful lot. I think every young athlete is that. I think, you know, you watch minor hockey and kids get frustrated, and I think it's over time. You learn that a bit. You know, in junior, you're always mad at the ref, screaming at the ref, and then, you know, I think I found it sometime in, you know,

the miners there, you're battling the American League and you're playing three and three nights, maybe, you know, maybe four and five days, just depending on the schedule down there. You know, it's pretty treacherous. And what I found is that all of a sudden you start seeing these same faces with the stripes on every night. And it's, you know, Paul Dvorsky, Brad Watson, and these guys that end up making it to the NHL, just like our, you know, as a player, you know, and it's all of a sudden, you know, they're thumping it out too and and all of a sudden instead of swearing at him for a call it's like

yeah what do you got three and three nights this weekend yeah you know they're living the life and in that league at those days he ended up running into him for a beer after the game at the local pub or the hot spot and you know it's like hey let's leave we're at the rink and have some beers and you you know you I ended up you learn to build some relationships when you got a newfound respect for these guys and and in the end those that ended up paying off better than telling the guy where to go. And I think... Can almost guarantee telling the guy where to go never works.

Well, you've got to touch the stove to burn your hand, right? That's right. To realize that it's hot. Well, let's go back to, you know, your younger years, you grew up in North Battleford. Did you always start out playing hockey? And was that always what you kind of had your eye set on? or what was young Blair like? My dad was signed by the Boston Bruins when he was 14 years old.

He's a member of the Sweetgrass First Nation just west of Battleford. The hockey was his way out of the reserve, and my grandfather recognized that as him as a young child and pushed him to it. He was good at it. he was before the draft. So that's why there was, like, that's why he signed it. So there used to be the Beaver Bruins in North Balford, which was a farm team to the Estevan Bruins,

which was a farm team to Oklahoma City and Dayton, Ohio, which all was a, it was a whole chain of it. Well, Lashburn, which is 15 minutes to the, well, you drive by it to get Lloyd. Lashburn was an affiliate of Wayburn, which was an affiliate of Detroit. Exactly. And that's the old, so the old system like that.

So that's where hockey was brought into me. And I guess I just grew up always wanting to play. And I loved it. And as a young kid, I was good at it. And, you know, it just, that was my dream. I was going to play, I was going to play in the NHL. And that was, you know, there was no other options. I mean, as growing up, summer was baseball.

I mean, I always played other sports growing up. I didn't play hockey all year round. Probably didn't have the option to play hockey all year round. No, but, you know, every once in a while on a weekend, it's like a nice day. Well, let's play grass hockey. So that'd be an afternoon game and that was it. We'd be pulled the nets out of the shed and, you know, get enough kids around and we all play grass hockey for the day.

And then that was it for, you know, the extent of hockey. But baseball was my other game that I liked to play. I had some success at it. What position do you play? First base and pitched. I played Team Saskatch when it was a junior program for the Canada games that was held in Saskatoon. Back in 89, I think the Canadian Suburgan Games were there. And this team started basically three and a half years before that.

I actually didn't make the final roster in that last season. That was the year I got drafted. And I guess my game at ball isn't really there, and my mind was going on to what I really wanted to do. So at the end of the day, but I played for three and a half years, batted cleanup, used to hit home runs. Played with a guy, the local guy, Derek Flash. Okay.

Him and I grew up playing baseball together. He continues. I think he's still playing baseball in Lloyd here at some capacity. and his brother Darrell, I think, is still into the baseball quite a bit. Anyways, yeah, that's what I went to Cincinnati Reds open camp in Regina. Really? Cincinnati Reds had an open camp in Regina? As a 15-year-old, and I was playing midget ball at the time in Battleford,

and our coach said, hey, there's a camp on the weekend. I'm driving up. I think Derek, a guy named Rodney Feather from down there, three or four of us jumped in the car with him, and he took us up to this camp, and you sign in in the morning. there must have been about 120 guys that showed up and then basically they run you through the mill throw how fast you run just these different basic skills and then at the end of the day they they pick a like basically a scrub game they pick about 12 or 14 players to play in a scrimmage

and so the three guys we batten and the rest in the field and they just rotate it through and the pitchers that they had so first time I come up to bat I hit it off the center field wall and this big chubby guy with a big wad of chew in his mouth from the Cincinnati Reds outfit. How old are you? I was like, 16. He wrote it my name down. And I ended up having a good day. And the next year I got a letter to come to another camp from Cincinnati,

but not down to Cincinnati. But they had another ID camp. But this time, I'm playing in the Western Hockey League. And hockey was really my drive. Did you get taken in the Bannum draft? I'm before the Bannam Drive. Before the Bannam Droughton. David Strewish and myself were Saskatoon Blade protectees.

So kind of the, if you're protecting someone under 15 years old, they take two spots on your 50-man protected list. Okay. So that was the system then. And David Struhe and I were Blades prospects young. And we were both basically listed before our age. So we took up a double roster spot on their list. and I started with the blades. So that was,

I played AAA midget into Battlefords as a 14 and a 15 year old and then played, started in the Western Hockey as a 16 year old. And did you play in your 16 year old year? I played to the first half of the season and then I went back to about, I wasn't playing much.

Yeah. And we had Marcel Como as a coach. Kind of the old school, don't talk to anybody, don't talk to kids, like he just showed up, it was a job. And I went back to Battleford and played the second half for Norm Johnson with the North Stars.

And I mean, in hindsight, it wasn't bad. I think I had 17 goals in half a season as a 16 year old. Yeah, which was decent. Which was decent. Probably better than decent, to be honest. And then I went back to the blades the next season as a 17-year-old. Kind of run into the same thing. Started off pretty good.

And then found myself healthy scratch, healthy scratch. and got to a point where Corey Kosher and I went into the Blades office and said, hey, can you move us? Like, we're not playing here. He doesn't want to use this. Well, ask for a trade. So that year, they talked to Corey, talked them out of it. They weren't talking me yet.

I was done. I wanted to go. So I went home that year and waited for the trade. Moostrow was going to trade for me. Harvey Roy, the general manager, come to my house, knew my father from hockey days. Just wanted to make sure I was going to report. That was all the trip was for.

He didn't want to trade for me and find out that I didn't want to play. So, Kate, the trade will be done tomorrow. And meanwhile, this whole time, this is when the Swift Current bus accident happened. So I'm at home when the bus accident happens and I'm sitting at home. The memorial was the next day. So Harvey Roy was going to see everybody

at the memorial, I get a phone call from Daryl Lubinickey. We've lent you to the Swift Current Broncos for the season. And I was like, wow, I don't want to be lent. You'll come back to the blades the next year. And I was like, I don't want to do that. So Edge and Elth got involved and basically phoned me and said, if you want to go to Swift Current, the league will compensate the blades and you'll be Swift Current property.

you're not going back. Or if you want to go to Moose Jaw, the deal will go through and the trade will be made. So Graham, Fulme, James, and obviously, I knew that group of kids from, they were good. I mean, they had Joe Sack and Sheldon Kennedy, Peter Soberluck, Tintyles. Oh, they want a memorial top. You could see that in the makings, and I was like, hey, I'll go there. So I'm going to play. They need the players, which, and so I lasted about two weeks, and I ended up getting trade to Moose Jaw anyways.

So they needed a defenseman to fill their roster, and those kids were promised they'll never be traded that year. And so that's how I end up with Mushaw Warriors. We're going to back it up for a second. So you got traded to Swift Current just after the bus crash? Yep. I was on the first bus ride after the crash. What was that like?

It's quiet. It was, you know, that Swift Current thing was, in hindsight, is been, it was really bizarre. Hindsight's 2020. I went from a team in Saston where you'd meet the coach in the hallway and he'd look at the floor and say hello to you as a 16-year-old kid on your team. And I go to Swift Current and I get invited for supper the first night and Graham's got, there's five of the players, a couple of the Kruger boys,

Sheldon Kennedy, Ryan McGill. And, you know, the interaction was, totally different I mean we got Sheldon with Graham and a headlock at the table and laughing and teasing and poking and and I was just like this is totally different than the blades right so you know it it was what it was and you know you move on and then stories come out later but you know it was hindsight I guess talking to you know getting to know some of those Bob Wilkie and different guys that I played with and against that we're on that team. And, you know, it's just a sad, sad thing that happened. And I was

fortunate to get out of there when I did, I guess, in hindsight. I thought it was not the greatest thing at the time, but I mean, sometimes things would work out for the best. But you would have never, like, it's not like he suspected anything anyways. No, but there was, I played team Western under 16, I guess, and I kind of know this through some of the coaching things that you have to do today to the flags that are throwing were flags that I witnessed with Sheldon and Kevin Green, like these kids that had played in Moose Jaw in that system for Graham, not with Graham yet, but I mean, it was cultivated. Sheldon was when he brought Sheldon to Moose Jaw, Sheldon was a midget, AAA.

Well, he traded Sheldon's right ahead of him to Swip Current before he left Moose Jaw. if you look at some of the timelines. He couldn't take Theron Flurry. I mean, Theron was the mayor of Moostra. Like, pretty damn sad. I mean, I've never seen the man since, and I just don't know what I would do if I ever run into him again.

Well, it's one of the very, very dark marks on hockey. Oh, for sure. You know, and I think, you know, my dad and mom and dad were at all the games. So I guess, I mean, you know, they were involved with my, life were interested, they were supportive, they're always there. I think, you know, that was maybe one of the flags that they, I don't think I'd ever be in that situation, but, you know, you never

say never in those days. So Moose Jaw, Moose Jaw, you go and end up playing there for three years. You say at the start, it wasn't what you wanted to do, but once you were there, what did you think of Moose Jaw? So the first day in Moose Jaw, we got Theron Flurry and Mike Keen, is their big players. They got a pretty good team. First day of practice, the coaches quit. What? Great Quizley's quit. Harvey Roy traded his favorite player for me and didn't know about it,

so the coach quit because his favorite player got traded away for me coming in to fill the shoes. Another great start, eh? But I... So the boys razz you about that? Well, they were just like, no, no, they weren't even, you know, there were some great people there. We had a great team and some great guys. They just took, you know, the players were welcoming.

It was just great quiz. They wasn't so fond that I had come. Do you know what I have in my hat? Sorry, did it stop us for one second? Kent Staniforth brought this in. And I've never had reason to really pull it out. But now that you're here, I'm trying to figure out because Graham James is in this.

And I'm trying to figure out what year this is. These would have been the year after. Year after? I played. Because Scottie Daniels, but that's not, that's Corkid. That's Corkid. That's Corkyke, yeah. I don't, I don't think I ever had a Junior A hockey card.

You mean a W.H.L. Hockey card? Because there is the man. Yep. I think those come out maybe the year after. It says following in the foot steps of 1989, so it would be 1990. Yep. That was my last year before. It was my last year.

That's damn good memory on you. Yeah. You say, you know, off air you're saying, folks, I don't know if I remember the storyline that well. That's bringing back lots of memories, that's for sure. So anyways, you know, I had a pretty good start. I ended up getting hurt in the first couple weeks, and wish I was kind of in and out of the lineup.

But then the next year, come back, and great quiz they had moved on and some new coaching. And really, my big opportunity in the Western Hockey League was from a man named Graham James, or Jerry James. Jerry James. Jerry James, great man. SGHL coach, football player, NHL hockey player, you know, Hall of Fame CFLer. Scariest man maybe when you meet him,

but it was a great human and great person. Just give me an opportunity to play. We went out in our West Coast strip, played with a defenseman on the left wing, fourth line center on the right, or in the middle, and put me on the right wing. come home with seven points in seven games by getting a regular shift. Theron Flurry was still with our group that year.

Got put on a line with him off the trip and scored 20 goals and 10 games. 20 goals and 10 games? Just couldn't miss. I was getting the puck where I usually liked it. That year, Theron, he set the Mousrao record for goals in the season. He had every other one in scoring, but he didn't. have the goals in the season. And we finally broke that one together as a line made of his.

And then next year I ended up breaking it on my own. So that was kind of my coming out year. I had a 30, whatever, 35 goal season or something like that. That season I ended up. And then, you know, had a pretty good strong season. I thought a chance I could get drafted, didn't get drafted. So I come back as a 19-year-old to the moose job. And put up 70 goals and 71 games and 135 points.

Who was your linemate feeding you that? That's a great line. Jerome Bichard and Rob Harvey. All three of us are in the Warrior Hall of Fame, all three of us. And, you know, that year I had, I was East Division Player of the Year. So I guess I was in top six in Canada for, you know, major junior player of the year with the different leagues. They end up giving me the Brad, or was the most sportsman-like trophy for the Western Hockey League. to give me something, I think, that year is just kind of, they'd give me that, which I didn't,

it wasn't that I was a goon or not, but I think they had to give me something. But, uh, with that, I think, I think Beech and Harve had about 85 points each. And I don't know where I got all my, like, at that season, with 70 goals, I had never more than three in a game, and I never had an empty net goal. So I basically spread it out, I actually, my second half was pretty strong, uh, went home at Christmas with 25 goals. And I was, I'm, you know, halfway the season, I'm going to be able to score 50. That was my goal. Right.

And then I guess I come back and scored 45 more after Christmas. So it was quite a season, I tell you. Moose Jaw was in turmoil. Like the franchise itself was up in the air. I remember Lauren Malkin had taken over that year, and he had nothing but trust or he believed to me 100%. And that was a big part of that season, I think, was his influence and his

support and guidance that year. He called me one day and says like, we don't make the playoffs, this team's done. It's up to you. It's like I'm a 19-year-old kid here putting the weight of a franchise in the Western League on me. But we had a good group of kids. A great team character-wise.

We had B. Shard, Jim McKenzie, Chris Bright, Corey Bolio, myself, all got dropped to the heart. for Whalers. Really? The Whalers just loved our team. And we all, there was a big group of us that all went there. We had other guys go other places, but that year was, it was pretty good.

We won like 22 or 22 games after Christmas to get into the playoffs. Then we ended up against Medicine Hat in the first round. They were two-time defending Memorial Cup champions. They had Mark Wolf and three first round. There was a Miller kid there, Jason Miller, a big defenseman, Kordock. and there's a pair of sauce. They had like slated to go again. We swept them in the first round.

So we were world beaters and then we come up against Swiftcrant Broncos. I think they beat us in six and they won them in a memorial cup. And then they went to win the Moro Cup. That was a pretty special year. I think that's one of the ones that you kind of never forget.

Junior's the greatest time of your life. There's no responsibility. You're just playing, you know, playing hockey and living the dream. So that was the start of it all, really that season for me to go think that I could actually continue on. Got to bring up billets? Did you have a, with all the younger kids, I've had lots of guys that are currently playing in the dub. And then for myself, where I lived out in Ontario, like, did you have one billet family and were you all over the place?

Well, obviously moving a couple different teams in junior, but Kim and Rex Pruden. I got them in Moose Jaw and we're still friends today we still 30 some years later and we stay in touch we get together when we can we've been to their kids' weddings I mean it's just

they've been part of our extended family they come with me to the draft when I got drafted no kidding they was yeah they've been you know they're always a phone call away and we do keep in touch not as much as you wish you could but we still do it. Unbelievable. So I always talk about the bill. I always like to talk about the bill of families because what they do is pretty

spectacular, especially when you get the right group with the right kid, right? For sure. I mean, that can make her break. I mean, I had some doozies and I had some good ones and that was the best. I think I was basically their one and only. I come in and they never took another one after. And, you know, we, yeah, it wasn't for them. that year was just all part of the mix that was all positive and really great support.

What rink did you like playing back in the day when you were scoring your 70? Moose Jaw. A hundred percent? Crush can, man. How were the fans in that place? Oh, it was great. I don't know. That was the best junior A rink.

I mean, you couldn't see from, you'd be in the top row on the one side. You could just see the top of glass across the other. You couldn't see the fans. It was so low. It was so cold all the time. The ice was great. And they had made, they had custom nets. And I don't know why, but they cut, they made,

our nets were the only ones shaped like that in the whole league. And I was always said that so Theron Fleury could wrap the puck around quicker. But I don't know why they had them. But we had funky shaped nets. What was the shape? Like, more like a hexagon in the back instead of the big, instead of the big sea or whatever, yeah. It was, they cut the corners of the, so you could come around.

that a lot quicker. I don't know why. I don't know why, but who knows? It's just something that we, well, they wouldn't let that happen today, but it was then. Yeah. So you talked about your, where was your draft? The year you're taken, where was the draft that year? Minneapolis. It was in Minnesota. Yeah. So did you head down there then? Yep. Did you head down the year before or two? No. No. So the year you're getting drafted, you had down, previous to the draft, did you go through a combine of sorts? Oh, there was not that.

There was not. You know what? They had a ton of meetings. I met with every, because all of a sudden I'm scoring a million goals and our team is doing great. You know, I talk to every team. That's where, in the big picture,

that's where I met Barry Trots for the first time. He was scouting for Washington, took our whole team out. He was a great guy. You know, you meet some people that just kind of hit it off. You know, just something there. didn't think much of it at the time just thought, geez, this guy's pretty nice.

He's a scout for Washington, but he took us out in a big group, but I met with every team and it was, you know, how come you guys are winning? And how, you know, like they all, you know, I always give Lauren the credit. Like, he brought, he had a unique fine line of being able to reprimand and discipline, but always knowing that it was never personal.

And that was the first coach I ever really had that had that division where, you know, he's just mad at your action, not at you. You know, practice is over. Everybody was, you know, our whole team could go in the office and have coffee with them. And it wasn't brown-nosed-in. It was just what we did.

Was there any team that stuck out to you that came and talked to you? Like, you got drafted by Hartford. Did Hartford stick out? You know, Dave McNabb, and if I looked back in some old boxes, I got a handwritten letter from him. And you'll have to refresh my memory. He was a scout for the Hartford Weathers for years.

And then he was involved with the last time, I even looked, I know he was working with Anaheim Ducks in like the top of their amateur scouting. This is years ago, but, you know, how, it was just unique. This guy had written me a hand, you know, page and a half letter, just, you know, liking my game and communicating with me. And, I mean, I guess, yeah, that was just one of those things that I think back, which was, I mean, no other team did that. But I mean, I guess I was, that was, I was, I was, like, people had a hard time figure

me out, I guess, in the big pictures. You all want to know what was up with me and like, all of a sudden I can score and I didn't, I scored the year before, but it was like, yeah, it just hadn't been the consistent from the time it got in as a 70 year old. You scored 70, right? Like, that's. Yeah, I mean, it was just. What do you think changed between the two years if you look back on just a year of maturity?

It's confidence, it's great support. And, you know, having a coach like Lauren Malkin believing in you as a person and what you can do on the ice and just changes it. And I'll throughout my journey, it comes back again and again, and it's the same kind of thing. Same recipe. Yep.

Somebody who believes in you and a little bit of confidence go a long, long way. Yep. So I got drafted 50 second overall. and when I was coaching junior helping that, the kids like the, who was picked 53rd. Who was picked 53rd? Nick Lindstrom. Bullshit, really?

Hartford kind of screwed up there that day. Yeah. I didn't know a time when I was like someone, you know, Nick Lindstrom was drafted right after. I'm like, oh shit, really? Oh. I was drafted before he had Nick Lindstrom. Only thing I got up on him.

So the kids had to have a pretty good time with that one. But, yeah, that's the day I said. Hartford overshot that a little bit. How excited were you when you heard your name called? Oh, it was great. I mean, it's all part of the, every cliche is just, you know, it's something that you think you want to do and you work to do. And when it comes through, now that was just really the start of the journey.

Like, did you get to, obviously, so you're drafted by them. Do you get out to Hartford then for training camp? Yep, they didn't have what they do now. I mean, you see them at the draft and then you show up on whatever September 1st or whatever the hell day it was. Do you still get your her for Whalers jersey? Yeah, I do have one somewhere. Somewhere.

Yeah. So that year, Lake Placid, New York is training camp. So we go to fly, everybody flies at Hartford, and they buses us. all out to Lake Placid where the Olympics were and I lit I lit it up training camp had great training camp in all the rookie games scored hat tricks and I was the only drafted kid to go back with the whalers to the preseason end up scoring a game winning goal against Buffalo and a two-one win but just got set you know back then they just okay good send you down your first-year guy kind of thing

and went down and we had an 11-win season in Binghamton And one of the worst teams ever in the American Ocala League history, it was a nightmare. There are lots of stories in that, but it was a tough year. Score 20 goals as a rookie in the American League. Kind of happy that way, not bad, but they moved from Binghamton to Springfield. Meanwhile, Springfield wins this Calder Cup with Jimmy Roberts coaching with the Islanders farm team. Islanders moved to Cabell District. kind of now and Hartford's moving their team into Springfield.

Well, we're the town of Springfield and the season ticket holders are now losing the Calder Cup champions to inherit basically the worst team ever in American High League History. So it wasn't a real warm welcoming when we come but Jimmy took that team and we brought in Mark Bergeman later in the year that year and we had got Todd Richards brought in and we had a Mark, Greg, we had a great group of young guys that They basically gassed all the old guys from the year before and kept the young nucleus and added to it and we won a Calder Cup. In Springfield again? So Springfield won it with the island.

Yeah. And the next year they bring in the worst team previous in HL history to win a second Calder Cup. Yeah, back to back. With a totally same coach, Jimmy Roberts wasn't leaving. He used to live right there by Springfield and he wasn't going nowhere else he was going to live there. and then Hartford hired Jimmy to take over the team. And he took us to a... So what was so spectacular about Jimmy Roberts?

Another phenomenal man. My hockey grandpa, we'll call him. Jimmy's won a bunch of cups, right? Yeah, Montreal. Five. He passed away here a couple of years ago. Yeah. I think five, if I remember, correct.

So I would call Lauren Malkin, my hockey brother. Okay. Jimmy Roberts was my hockey grandpa. So that year we won a Calder Cup Next year I mean nobody makes the Whalers From the Calder Cup winning team Anyways

Move on Well back that up Nobody made the Whalers after you win a Calder Cup No I think Terry Yake stayed up for a bit that year Why is that? You know, it's just It's kind of refreshing but that's hot Like

In today's game Whoever wins a Calder Cup basis There's three or four of those guys in the NHL lineup. Well, that only makes sense, though. That's just the way the Whalers used to do it. I mean, not to knock on anybody, but I remember they brought in Mark Hunter that summer. Like, he would have been aging then.

I mean, a great player over the years, but to bring them in and there's a couple other guys that they, just guys that were close to 30 and just brought them in to fill the roster and never brought anybody up. It was just, kind of the old system. And then the teams that were ahead of the game

were the ones developing their own farm system. And I mean, we could all have views on it, but at this... That's crazy, though, to win a Calder Cup. And not to have one or two or... Yeah. I don't believe anybody stuck the whole.

Like, nobody was established the next year in the NHL from that team. There were guys that we all went on and played in the NHL. Yeah, in the NHL, but not for the Whalers. Not for, yeah. maybe someone got a cup of tea and that was a bloodied. So the Calder Cup, like what was that ride like?

Did you guys, were you guys that good all year? Were you an underdog? Yeah, we were pretty good. We used to be, we were high flying. Kind of like we had four lines that could score. I played third line, I scored 25 goals. Like we had, our first line had a 50 goal score and a 40 goal score. and a 40 goal score.

We could just, we just had lots of firepower. There's Chris Tansel, James Black, Mark Gregg, Ivan Corvo, Dale Henry, Joe Day.

They're all successful in their colleges or juniors. And then we just, Emmanuel Veroos, we were really good. Kay Whitmore was our goalie. He was really good in the minors. We just,

just, yeah, we, we, we could outscore anybody, basically, but Jimmy made us play defense. So, that combination is, it was pretty good. It was, it was a great, a great year. When you really think about that, that's, like, ridiculously impressive to go from being an 11-win team to winning the Calder Cup. You know, and a lot of it was, it was a mindset. Like, it was Jimmy, like, we went on our first trip and we, you know, 500, and had a good time.

The guys were having fun, and it was like, this isn't happening this year. Like, we remember going on a bus there, and he just snapped. And it was like, it's too much of a country club here. Like, this isn't going to be how it runs. And he worked our, he worked us hard. We worked hard. But he was just, had the biggest heart,

but he was like Walter Matho, just a grumpy old man. And just barking and funny. But just kind of some of the, the ways he'd handled it back in those days. Never called curvy, but weigh in every Monday. You know, if you're heavy, you're not doing something right. You know, it was just like kind of old school.

You know, just pretty funny how he'd handled. But, you know, obviously we had a good group of guys and we were having success. And, you know, he was great. What was one of the, you know, keeping everybody in line. But what was maybe some of the things that you learned off of him that, you know, made you guys a better team, better players? Just buying in. Like you had to, like, there was no free rides.

There was just, everybody worked hard, and he kept everybody in the group. Like, it was never nobody exiled from the nucleus. Like, there's no black sheep on the team. Like, everybody, he just, I don't know, it's, he had his way. It was old school, but, you know, you had to read between the lines. And at those days, in those days, he, you, he just, I don't know, it's, he had to, he had to read. could figure it out. Yeah.

You know, today you throw some of these at some of the young kids and they just, there's no, it goes over their head and they'd never figure it out. But, I mean, we figured it out that year. And he was a big part of me getting picked in the auto expansion draft. So you win a Calder Cup? Played another year in Springfield the next year. Had a 25 goal season, but never got a chance. Were you ever fresh?

frustrated at that point? A little bit after training camp. I remember a guy named Luke Crawford, tough bugger, winger from, was Boston's organization, and we were playing an exhibition game and training camp against Maine and he's like, how come we

lined up against it? I mean, he was a tough bugger. And he's like, what the hell are you doing in this game? And I'm like, I don't know, you should be getting a chance or something. You know, just one of those. Yeah, one of those conversations.

Don't know him, never had a beer with them, but just one of those things that you kind of, earned respect and gain respect for a lot of guys in the trenches down there. And, you know, it was kind of like, yeah, I don't know. And then we ended up with a new coach, Jay Leach, because Jimmy went up to the Hartford. And he was an American guy that like this college guy, you know, just kind of never just, never went well and never really got a, you know, I was basically thinking after that year is like,

what's going to happen? And then that's the summer to expansion draft and get picked by Ottawa. Do you remember that day? I just started dating my wife, Jennifer, and we're at the lake. I had a little cabin at the lake. What lake? Murray Lake, Jackish, Murray. So I'm at Murray Lake, and I'm, and we're, I don't know what the hell day.

It was Saturday or Sunday. And my parents were out for supper, we're barbecuing, and my buddy phones me, hey, I'm just watching TSA, you got picked in the expansion draft. I'm like, what? I had no idea. I wasn't even thinking of an expansion draft that, and sure enough, I'm like, you know, flipping on TV and, hey, so we're ecstatic.

My wife's like, what's the big deal? Like, no idea what really what's going to be. You're thinking you're going to get a shot. Yeah, here's my big chance again. And it's just, you know, went and I'm in that first inaugural program, that Ottawa Senator won, kind of a portrait picture of me, but never, never did start the year of there. and went down to New Haven.

What a joy that was. That was an interesting, an interesting year, but it found me out of hockey after that year. You know, I was writing down names from that Senator's year. You remember who led them in scoring that year? Not a clue. Norm McGiver. Norm, okay.

Norm was in Hartford, actually, when I was first drafter. Joel Quinville was with the Whalers when I was drafted of the Whalers. That's where I first met him. Well, yeah, actually. The Whalers had Ron Francis was a captain. Unbelievable character. What do you think of him getting the job at Seattle?

It's great. That was my first roommate in training camp. Was Ronnie Francis? I mean, just like, you look at the people that they had, like Dave Tippett. Yeah, Dave Tippett, Joel Quinville, Kevin DeNan, Ray Ferraro, Pat for Beak. Yeah, like it's the unbelievable character. Dave Babbage. Oh yeah, Dave Babbage.

He was there. Alph Samison, Brian Lotton. Like, they had unbelievable people. Like, in hindsight now, going 30 years, I mean, they're all involved in high levels. Well, that's the thing. That's why you write down the names is because, I mean, Joel Quimble becomes probably arguably the best coach ever.

I would say. It was my best coach ever. My first train camp, like when I went up to it, like I said, went up with the big team to, to Hartford for preseason, he's like, hey, Ach, what are you doing tonight? And I'm like, I'm not, I'm in the hotel. Nope, you're coming out with me and boo. We're going out for supper.

Took me out for supper. And just, sure, like, you know, here's a veteran guy just saying, hey, Rick, come on. You know, and that was my first getting to know him. And as we go forward, he becomes a part of what I was able to accomplish. So after expansion, I'm out of hockey. Like we said, go to end up back at home and Soto three stars, play a little three games there. End up at Columbus, Ohio, in the East Coast. Did you not have an agent?

Yeah, I did. I had Art Breeze to start. Art, well, I moved on from him. This agent that phoned me this year when I was out of hockey, he has a guy named Fred Simpson. didn't know him from a hole in the ground the reason i bring it's hard to fathom you know in today's age is you're maybe i'm wrong and a little bit off my rocker on this bit your entire career thus point or up to this point i'm going like sounds like you you know you you put up 70 in the dub which we all know doesn't exactly translate to all of a sudden your first line in hl no

but you make it into uh the hl you win a calder cup you're part of that. Now, you play another year, then you get selected in the expansion draft. It just seems like maybe there's some things, but when you look back at it, do you go, could I have done a couple things differently? Oh, yeah. You know, just recognizing, you know, you're not going to be the Connor McDavid or, you know, the natural goal score that just comes out of junior, like a lot of, Mike Badano, I played a junior against it. Like, I mean, they stepped in the H.L could score there too. Yeah.

I mean, that wasn't who I was in the end. So, yeah, I had to develop something else. What was the toughest adjustment then, right? Because, I mean, he's put up 70. I would think you're thinking, I can score goals. You know, I could always score, but I wasn't, I mean, I was never, I mean, I got back to like a 40, 40-some goal at level in the American League before I went to the NHL. But, and I, there again, I basically had to prove myself as a goal scorer to get a chance to go to the NHL. And this kind of through this whole process,

is I end up in, I bounce, okay, I go to Columbus for three weeks to get in shape. I don't know, I got like two points a game right from the start there. So then I get called up to Providence. Providence Bruins go there for like an exhibition game. They're playing an Olympic team. I'm playing on the line with Darren Banks, who gets kicked off the team after the game, where mine is six or something. It's just terrible.

Two days after in practice, we're going to send you back. I mean, that was it. So I get the airport, got a note from my agent, don't get on the plane. You're going to Portland. Portland Pirates.

Barry Trots, Paul Gardner, coach in there. Barry Trots is now, this is Washington's front being. So you hear Barry Trots and you're thinking, well, I just, okay, I'm just in a duffel bag. Okay, I go show up in Portland, play three games, have three points, have a good weekend. They had a bunch of injuries.

he's like, Trots, he's like, I want to keep you, but I can't because Washington has to make some moves and open up some space for me here for you. But he says, instead of sending you back to Columbus, I'm going to send you,

going to lend you the Swift, Springfield. They have nobody to play right now. They're hurt, like they're hurt and sick. So Joel Quinville's now coaching in Springfield. So I'm like, whatever, okay. So I go, end up having,

I think, 20 goals, and 40 points and 40 games. On the second half of, and now I'm playing for Joe, and I'm just getting to play again, kind of this whole, and I don't really give a shit what, if you don't like the way I play,

this is how I play. And now I'm having success. So that's my first, after being a player, my first acquaintance with Joel Quinville. And then with that, after that season, of course, there's an NHL lockout.

So I end up getting a tryout contract, with the Minnesota Moose, the inaugural season. I go down there. Actually not doing too bad. I scored the first Moose goal in Moose history. I kicked it in on Tommy Salo. But I'll take it.

Kind of just a mess. A new organization in the IHL got Dave Christian, Dave Snuggieroot, all these kind of old players coming back to Minnesota playing. Then with the lockout, the word is at Madano and all these guys from Dallas are going to be coming to get some ice. So then basically they have no room for me now. I feel like the narrative of this story is getting kicked from one side to the other side. And it could be wrong, right?

But it sounds like you're putting up points, you're winning. You're, you know, you're doing most things, right? Most things, but just not enough. At the end of the day, I'm just not doing enough. So then I get a... I got to call my agent that I had then. Jimmy Roberts is coaching an independent team in Worcester just down this road from Springfield,

half an hour down the road. So they're independent, and I go and finish the rest of the season in Worcester. So who are you playing if you're independent? Oh, we're in the American League. Oh, in the American League. Well, we just are independent. Oh, yes.

There are some kids from Montreal. They had a couple of guys on loan, and then they signed their own guys, right? So it was actually St. Louis's farm team, half St. Louis, half independent. So what Selsian going there is Jimmy's coach, and you're like, this could be something. I'm going back. So, I mean, I've been in the country club, and it's like, kind of a funny, so I get there, and he's like, I'm not in great shape.

I mean, we just, I'm not a good shape right now, and this is mid-season. And he come in, he gets everybody to do his typical way in on Monday. And it's like, oh, crap here. I got to get on the scale. So I get on the scale. 207. Holy shit. Look, you got five pounds in your face.

Oh, you can't play. He's just ratting and raving all over him, just howling, right? And the guys are like, eyes are big as, biggest saucers. And I'm my head's down, and he's just barking. You can't effing play at that. Yeah, yeah, and leaves the room barking all the way down the hall. And guys are just like, holy crap. And I'm feeling about the size of a midget.

And I just sitting there and then everybody kind of weeded out. And then the trainer says, Ach, Jimmy wants to talk to you. So go down there and say, Ach, what are you doing? I'm like, it's not, it was a country club. I know I'm not, I need you to play. He says, you're not in good enough shape for what I need you. And I said, I'll get in shape.

Yeah, you just got to get down. I mean, he was, that was him, right? He had his old school way, and then he had his rub your back a little bit. But, you know, we were on the same page. And basically had not a bad season there. I think I had 17, 20 goals and half the season. He said, actually, at the end of the season, St. Louis was making a run into the playoffs. And, you know, Mike Keenan had phoned down to see who he could, who he should bring up for playoffs.

And Jimmy says, action, like his, his. would be the guy you would want. And I was on an independent contract. And he's like, I didn't get called or sign. They'd have to sign me, right? So anyways. So that one, that season ended basically like that.

And Jimmy just said, you know what, don't worry, I'll get you a job for next year. I'll make sure you got a place to play. So that summer, Lauren Mulligan, signs on as the coach in the American League for Edmonton. I went, got invited to Euler Camp, went to, on an American League contract, he went to Euler Camp, and George LaRock was picked that year. He got to be good buddies through him.

We had the same agent at the time. Went down to Cape Britain. I'm just laughing. You're seeing me smiling here. I'm laughing at your, listeners already hearing it, but it was New Haven, Springfield, Portland, Columbus, Minnesota, Worcester, Cape Britain, and then Hershey, the year. after. That is a lot of, did you ever get worn out?

Or was it just a ton of fun? It was, I mean, I love the game. I always have. I mean, that's just, you know, to get up and be able to go play hockey for a job. I mean, I didn't, I hadn't put a whole lot of stake in anything else other than playing the way I can play and play the way I want to play. And if, you know, after that year in Cape Breton, we didn't make the playoffs. It was a tough year out there.

They offered to resign me. They were moving to Hamilton. I said, well, I want to make what, you know, I want to make 70 grand Canadian at least. Like I was making Barty or something Canadian. And it was second and the team of score, third top three score, right? And I'm like, you know, if you can give me what that, what some of the other guys were making. Like, oh, no, we're not paying nobody that this next year, they said. Whatever.

I said, I'll run my chances. So that's the summer I signed with Hershey. Bob Hartley's coaching, half independent, half Colorado. Quinville is the assistant coach with Crawford in Colorado. They had won the cup maybe the year before. I was the first team all-star in the American Hockey League that year. We won the Calder Cup again. We made a run right to the end and actually broke my ankle in the second round.

Got slashed. made it back for the last series after surgery. And we won the Calder Cup. I was leading, I think I was leading the Ligon's points when I got hurt. And then, you know, one ended up winning anyways and had maybe an assist in the last game. And then that's the summer I signed in St. Louis. Let's think about, or let's stop on the Calder Cups for a second.

Do you go ever get back to the Springfield? ever have alumni to come back and celebrate that or does Hershey? Hershey did three years ago, I think it was. Did you go back? My daughters both played for Team Saskatchewan and the North American Indigenous games in Toronto. Okay. Volleyball.

Yeah. And the same weekend Hershey was having their, I actually had a ticket that I walked away from. My girls made it to the gold medal game. What are you doing? It was, yeah. What are you doing? you know, text and phone the guys. A bunch of them had made it back.

They didn't have the turnout that they were, it was a 20-year reunion. And Bob McGill was a coach that year. And Bob Hartley and then a bunch of the guys that were there. Anyways, missed that one, but still stay in touch with a few of those guys every once in a while. But that was one of them. What is the after party like after winning a Calder Cup? Well, Hershey's an unbelievable place. Like that is you're in the middle of nowhere.

You've got chocolate, the smell of chocolate everywhere. The old Coliseum was unbelievable. Like sat about 8,000 people, and the seats were basically straight up and down. Like, they had railings in the third balcony, so you don't fall out of your seat, basically. And I love that rink. But, I mean, we won on the road. Okay, so we beat Hamilton in the finals. who wouldn't sign me the year of Cape Breton.

We beat Cape Breton in the finals basically that year. So that was against Lauren Mulligan and Scott Housin, who was the general manager down there at that time for the Cape Breton. So anyways, that was the salt in the wound. Was that a little bit of a good feeling? That was a good feeling. Yeah, absolutely. The shake hands in the hall after that one.

And that one, so. But Hershey, we went on the road, we come back, and they had just a meet and greet at the arena. They had 10,000 people. What was that like? It was like, retarded. It was crazy. We show up to the rink and I'm like, oh my, it's like full.

And they have a stage like a rock show is going to happen. And we went up and basically just a couple, you know, they said there's this and that and had a little speeches and they cheered and maybe showed a couple clips. I don't know if they had any clips of those old technology. You know, it was just a big party, and then they had to sign autographs. It must have been four hours. I think every person in that building got in line to get an autograph.

Anyways, it was a lot of fun. It was a cool experience. It was a cool experience. We just needed a little something to wet or whistle a little bit to keep the line going. But it was, we had a lot of fun. That was a great group of guys. All kind of went somewhere a little bit. He had a few guys that continued on that made it to the NHL.

Who is it the best guy after hours to go hang out with in your career? Like who knew how to have a good time? You know, it's different. American League and NHL are totally different. American League, you got 20 guys. So, you know, it was just, you know, it was a group. It was just like junior hockey. NHL, you get to do that a little bit on the road,

but you're still, it's a different, it's a different, it's a different atmosphere. But those, not to say they don't have fun and have, but it's just a different kind. It's more like a frat party and a business party. I mean, one guy, we had, Jamie McClinton was a, he was a blast. He was our back of bowling. Back of going St. Louis. And he was awesome. Like he was one of the best guys you could meet.

And, you know, that was our group. Called us all shit bums. We're the shit bums. Like, just the fill in the cast, the third, fourth liners, the grinders. He had so he always had some line going or And funny some experiences with him He wasn't shy to meet anybody he sees a star He just straight out in their face

Jamie McClainan, St. Louis Blues, nice to meet you It's like Lawrence Fishburn Or like his actors you'd run into on the L.A. He's just raid in their face. Jeff Goldblum, nice to meet you. Jamie McClainon, Golly, St. Louis Blues. I'd be less like, I'd just ride the coat-tail Because I could never do that as a person

But he was pretty good. ever star-struck by anybody? Not really starstruck. I guess you just kind of get into a little, it's a little different world. You know, what is kind of, you kind of pinch yourself sometimes is because

you're starting to meet these people that either they're movie stars or, you know, or guys that you play to get. I mean, idolized growing up. It's like, you know, you're sitting in the same room as Al McGinnis. I mean, I'm thinking, you know, you're on the same level.

as a teammate and you know there's just those were kind of things because i guess even hind hindsight and post post hockey i don't ever really consider myself anything different than yeah the next average guy over just i was did uh mckinness shoot the puck that hurt crazy like with a wood twig yeah heavy like i don't i don't he would never shoot like that on his own goalies it's like yeah yeah really half half half Half-slappers in practice. Never, never full out on his own guy. But he just had, when he let it go, it was a rocket. It's just different.

I don't know. Like, these guys are going up over his numbers now, but, and I'm sure they're hard. Did you see in the H.L a guy shot 109 this year? Wow. Like, that's fast. I mean, him, him when he was breaking 100, he was a heavy 100. Yeah. Like, Brett Hall's puck seemed to go just as fast, but, I don't know, they seemed quicker.

but not as heavy. I don't know. It's a weird thing. Some way some guys can shoot, I guess with bread it was just so natural. Like, literally it looked like he's trying to shoot. Yeah, and it off it went.

Yeah, it was, this technique was phenomenal. And then Al was just like brute muscle heavy. So let's talk about getting a full-time role in the show. Well, it was, that was the summer after a Calder Cup in Hershey. Just living, you know, not even not even a thought of NHL. I'm just happy to, you know, I actually was hoping maybe there's a chance

that could end up in Europe for a few years and make a couple bucks to kind of get me started in the post life and driving down the road coming from North Balford, heading to the lake, and I get a call from my agent and I got St. Louis Blues, want to offer me a contract, and then the next day Calgary Flames want to offer me a contract and it's like but in the venture I still got another year with Hershey that I didn't have an out clause from my last agent so instead of a bidding war it ended up being a war

of who could make a deal with Hershey to satisfy them and basically St. Louis compromised and said if we send him down he's going to Hershey the first year and then the second year of the contract if we send him down he's going to there affiliate, whoever was. Yeah. And so be it. I was just pumped.

Joel Quinville is the head coach. Jimmy Roberts is the assistant. Wow. That's the two guys that end up in St. Louis. I knew Quinville was the coach, but... Roger Nielsen was the third. No kidding. John Ferguson, Jr., is the assistant general manager,

was my teammate in New Haven. Everybody knew you. Yeah. Brad Tree Living was a teammate in New Haven. Yeah, you just... And I guess you threw me something that you learn. You never burn bridges. Yeah, absolutely. In life.

You treat everybody with as much respect and you can and don't burn a bridge. I mean, I just don't, like these names continue to come back, you know. So I have a great year. Well, we've got to talk about the first year in the blues. Yeah. Right? Like I was looking at the names. So you got Quimmoal coach and you just added a whole bunch that I didn't even realize.

But then you got Brett Hall, his last year, Al Mechanis, Pierre Tiersjean, Jeff Cortnell, Chris Pronger, Steve D'Shea. I always think, I had to write the name down because I always remember Don Cherry, Rockham, Sockham, whatever number that is. Is that Duchin again? Is that Dachain again? You remember that? No, I don't. You don't remember that? Duchin was the one who played for the... He was Quebec Nardis. Was he Quebec? Do you play for the Kings too?

Yeah, he did. I think he did. So when he's playing for the Kings, Don Cherry has this thing on Rockam Sockham. I'll have to show it to you after. Rockam Socom. I don't want to say five to eight somewhere in there. In the Newman household, Dad always got the new Rockam Sockham for Christmas. So the first thing after presents was, we'd go watch the new Rockam Socom. Every Christmas.

Boom, that's what happened. And this one comes up. Dushain had shot a puck into the bench, I think. And Don Cherry's narrating it going, is that Dushan again? And he's talking as if. he's the coach. And he goes, if that's DuCain again, he's getting traded. And then I saw Duchen on the St. Louis Blues roster when you go there. I'm like, oh, yeah, is that Duchin again? Yeah.

You had Craig Conroy. It would have been a young Craig Conrad. That was my centerman. There you go. And Grant and Grant Fear and Net. Scott Pellern was our other lineman. We had a CPA line that year. We ended up kind of, we're the checking line. So, yeah, we're fourth overall in NHL that year, that team. Darren Turcott was there too. Yeah. Good hockey team. Yeah, it was a great, I mean, a great team.

We were really good. Just come up short. Mark Bergevin. They were second time with him when the Color Cup the first time with him. And then, you know, teammates again. Got myself, you know, I got the phone call. That Joel Quinville phones me at home. Like after I sign my contract and he's like,

how many games do you play in the NHL in Hartford at? And it's like, just exhibition. Well, well, I think it's about time he played in the NHL. And I'm like, yeah, sure, I'm there. Okay, so, I mean, there's, I got another guy that believes, trusts, support, you know, and I went in the preseason. I think I led the team in scoring. Like, I was up right. I played lots of games, but I scored.

I was scoring in preseason. So they keep me there, start the season. I think I went first 10 games and no goals. Like, but I was penalty killing. I mean, I went. Went from being a score again. Well, let's, before we get too far into it, what was your first, because we talked about with Ottawa on it, you know, four games, it was kind of a dream gone.

Mm-hmm. With the St. Louis Blues, what was your first game like? Like your first regular season game where you stepped on the ice, you got the crowd, where was it? You know, I can't even remember. I can remember parts of pre-season. I remember scoring my first goal. Spin around a backhand.

from the red line empty netter. That was your first goals of St. Louis Blue? Last minute of the game. Against two. San Jose. San Jose. No goalie. They all count.

That's right. Got the puck. But yeah, that was, you know, just had a great preseason, scored some nice goals, and they kept me in. But that's the thing. With Joel, he knew I could play without the puck and put me into a checking role, And that's really, in hindsight, I had to develop in the American League is to be, you know,

I have to find something that's going to be an asset. I could think the game, I guess, back then, you know, good hockey sense, sort of say, and kill penalties. I mean, that was, and that's basically the role I got slotted in when I went to St. Louis, play a checking line and kill penalties. Got Brett Hall, Pavel, Demet, Repere, Church. And they don't need you to score the goals. You know, and then when I got a chance, I'd score.

So it was like, you know, that was kind of like our whole third line was kind of like that. And we had a great year. Conroy really, I think, should have won the Selke trophy that he was up for it that year. He, it was, I mean, we just shut down teams. Every time Lindros's line would be on the ice, we're on. You know, we were always line matching. What was playing against Lindros like? Well, the first time we played against them, we outscored him, I think, one or

two goals our line scored, he was, end of minus, and then something come up in the paper how this minor league line, the next time we played them, I don't, never saw a group of guys. It was the Legion of Doom line that, I never seen Pucks pass that hard and that fast, and those guys were huge. Like, there was no stopping them that second time, but, you know, it was kind of the, that was our challenge every night, was to shut down the line. I remember we were playing against Anaheim one night in St. Louis. and Salani and Korea,

every time they're on ice, we're on the ice. And Salani, it's kind of comical at the time. We're all kind of whistle goes by our net. He looks at us, he says, you guys don't even try and score. This isn't hockey? You don't even try and score. No, it wasn't our job.

We were just to make sure you don't score. And Conroy, he got a kick out of that because we finally got a reaction out of him and it was a Finnish accent. He was just frustrated. He didn't know what to do with us. So that was, yeah, but that was... Who weren't some other guys you would have played against that year that really come off here,

that you're trying to shut down? Do you have to go against the great one then? Now the first year, yeah, I think we, actually the, that was he, we would have, I don't know if we played a bunch against him. I can't, like, I don't, I remember playing against him the first time ever played against. Because he would have been in, what, New York by then? Yes, okay. We only played him the once.

The wants. Yeah, that's... Right, because back then... Yeah, it was kind of a crazy skit. And it didn't really get to play much, but I believe the first time we ever played against him, my first shift against him, it was a corner draw in our end,

he poked the puck forward between the centerman's legs, stepped around him, went off the side of the net, straight out in front to Adam Graves for a goal. And it wasn't, you know, it would be like, if it was me doing that, it would be a fluke. But it was totally. totally what he tried to do. He couldn't pass it through the guy, so he passed it around him

using the side of the net to get it to the right in between the hash marks. And I was like, wow. Okay, we'll give you that one. But it was impressive. I mean, he just does, I mean, every time we played him, it's like, well, you never got close to him to him to hit him, because the puck's gone long before he ever. So you just kind of, a slow trail behind the play kind of with him on the ice. That's pretty cool, though. Oh, it was, yeah, you pinch yourself every day when you're in that league. I mean, I did.

Let's talk about then the second expansion draft. Now you're playing on a team by all the sounds of it. You got Quimilar, you got all these guys who are putting you in the right place to succeed by the sounds of it, right? Yep. It's had a great season. You know, one of those aha moments just before we get to there was the season ended finally. Okay. And the second round against Detroit.

Lost in six games. Well, we could talk about playoffs for a second. Absolutely, because we talked about the start, the Stevie Y. Stevie Y is my favorite player. And that's where we lost in the second round. And it was like. They were on the real. Yeah, it was.

Is that the year they going to win the cup? Mm-hmm. Yeah. They won the cup that year. So, well, just at the end, we were all having beers in the room. Yeah. The dust is settled. We lost out.

And, you know, it's my first full season in the NHL. and it's like Al McGinnis sitting there and he's like, Ahch, where the F did you come from? Where have you been? You know, and it was just that, I guess you've earned the respect of a teammate and obviously a Hall of Famer that, you know, you belong there. Which is really cool.

Yeah, that was one of my, you know, greatest feelings and moments that, you know, it was only for me and it was something that I cherish. And something you can look back on it. Would have been a special moment sitting in the dressing room having a cold one. Mm-hmm. Yep. There's lots of fun, that was for sure.

But now we got to, like, it must have been heartbreaking to, were you paying attention to the second expansion draft? Because now Nashville's getting a chance to bring a team in. Now it's a little more, a little more, the old one you didn't even know it was on. This one, there's a little more hype about it now. And so that one, well, I get picked, and Barry Trots is the coach. so I'm kind of going back to a familiar face from Junior who was a scout

played for a short little bit in the American League and now he's How did you find out were you watching that one? Yeah that one I kind of had a if there was a chance I would be going just because of contract situations

and the parameters of what was available like the Vegas one is totally different they could they were picking top six guys basically, you know, top six where bottom six guys were all that were available to the Nashville time. So, I mean, that one was kind of new. Maybe there was a chance, you know, and then again, you think, here's another great opportunity, like starting with a franchise and, you know, maybe you sign something longer and, you know, you get to stay there for a few years, but it was fun. It was more like the American Hockey League going there because everybody

was new to the city. We had no Brett Halls. Al McGuinness is no superstars on our team. You had Cliff Ronning, Greg Johnson, and Sergey. There's a cross off. That's right. Creole Croshoff. Drol Bouchard. I mean, we were all trying to, we're all in the same boat with Scotty Walker.

Like, we had fun. We had a Halloween party we hosted. I mean, it was a blast. Like, it was like junior slash American Hockey League. The whole team's there dressed up in costume. I can't really say who was in the French riot. fit, but he was passed out in the front yard by the end of the night. You know, it was just one of those fun parties, you know, like how they used to be,

not the catered ones. And it was just like everybody grabbed a case of beer and shows up and have a lot of music and a lot of laughs. But that was a lot of fun. There was a lot of first there with that team. And it was a new game to a new market. Got to meet a few stars here and there, there with the music business. Who was some of the people you met in Countrytown? Well, the Dixie Chicks were big then.

Oh, yeah. They were hanging around quite a bit at the wives' room, and Mindy McReady, Drake Berhusky was dating her there for a while, and then, you know, Tim McGraw and Vince Gill were always at the games, and, you know, Trisha Yearwood. They were just kind of, everybody was kind of, ooh, what is this all about now? You know, they were intrigued by it,

and they were some of them were fans, and, you know, you got to do that for a bit, but then come trade deadline, I got traded back to St. Louis. How happy were that? At the time, I was really happy. I mean, because we had a good team again, and we're going to the playoffs, I guess.

Were you at all concerned, or, I don't know, watching trade lines? I always, I grew up in the era of, and I mean, it's still going on. Trade deadline, they still try and make out to be this giant day. But I really lived through the era of where trade deadline was an actual trade deadline, and there was giant people getting moved left, right and center. You saw giant trades all the time. And as a fan, it was incredible to watch. I'm assuming as a player, it was a lot different.

I don't know if you were. I mean, I really wasn't expecting it then. I mean, we were in Tampa and just on a road trip and got called in before practice. And it's like coming in and his trotsies there and guards. And Paul Gardner was a superman, like a super assistant coach, Both of them, you know, they were, we had a long relationship, I guess, through all the years from junior with Trotsie. And, you know, it was like, it wasn't his favorite. You know, I was maybe one of the guys he really liked, and it wasn't his dealing, right?

So he's just sending the message and saying, hey, thanks. And, you know, it was kind of, I was sad because they were such good guys and good people to be working with. And as coaches, I loved them. But then when they said, you're going back to St. Louis, I was like, okay, that's not so bad either. And we, you know, actually from Tampa all the way to Vancouver. So the longest flight he can possibly do. And then back to Quinville practices. And it's like, holy shit, I've got to work a little harder again.

Just the type of practices here on a, we didn't have those in Nashville with that group. So, but it was. What was it like walking back in the locker room of St. Louis? That must have been a homecoming. A homecoming. Yeah, it was really, you know, I got along. Chris Bronger got along with really well. McClennan was there still.

There was a kind of a group of friends there, Scotty Palloran and Conroy, so it was like, yeah, it was just coming home. And I guess we just got back there, and he initially said, I don't know how much you're going to get in because they had, you know, Jamal Mears was coming up, Tyson Nash,

and some guys that were scratching their way up kind of in my role, and then got in there and basically never left the lineup got to play the whole time through so it was another great experience got to play the playoffs again

lost in six games to Dallas with Brent on the other side and they went on the win again I mean it was such a fine line there with both years losing in six in the second round to eventual cup winners that you know

it was there but you just couldn't you know just couldn't touch it and I guess that's my my closest closest stint to the cup really is that. Well, I was saying to you, so Brett Hall, your first year was St. Louis. And then the next year when you're coming back, Brett Hall is signed with Dallas, and everybody remembers the infamous goal against Buffalo and the finals and everything else, right?

Yeah. But what was it like the atmosphere? You guys beat at the time it would have been the Phoenix chaos on Arizona. You beat Phoenix in Game 7, won nothing. thing on a point shot that gets tipped out front, I believe. Scott Young shot it, I think. Yeah, and Terjohn? Or maybe Terjohn shot it and Scott Young tipped it?

Terjohn tips it. Okay, yeah. Well, that was on classic NHL. And beats Nikolai Habi Boolean and Nett. The Boolean Wallet. That's right. It was a, that was an amazing series. We were, we come out, we were better team than them, I thought.

We were in the end, but it was, I want to say, what did we go down? It was 3-1, but there was, to go down three games to one, Dallas Drake come by our bench and taunted us, like with, you know, on an empty-neck goal or something, to put an nail in the coffin, I think it was in St. Louis. And Al never said much. Pronger was the captain then, but Al was the leader. Right. And Al spoke.

You listened. mad, like, real mad. And Al was always the most coolest, calmest guy, and he'd get a little fire, but he was pissed. And, you know, I mean, I was just like, I'm with you. Like, he just, he was, he said, there's no effing way we're shaking those guys' hands. Like, we're not, it's not, and he was like, we're not doing it. And so sure enough, next game, we come back, we win, and then all of a sudden we win again, and then they're going to game seven.

It's like, hey, this is going to happen. And there's a part in Jamie McClennan's book, I can't recall it off, but he talks about that series about Fierzy saying, all you need is one voice. I got the rest. And there's another fourth gum moment. I was sitting beside Fierzy, and Jamie was on the other side, and just the way the dressing room was, I remember him saying it now.

And I'm like, I remember that now. And sure enough, I mean, we went to overtime, and that was, I played a lot that game. I had about 25 or 26 minutes. And, yeah, we won that. We won nothing, and that was just amazing. That was one of the, when we come back from three games to one and beat those guys, and it was like, Al McGuinness was the one that spearheaded that hole. And it was a mindset.

It was like, yeah, we are better, and now we've got to go prove it. It was pretty cool. Absolutely. Should teach your player, or people should teach their players to, well, it only took a couple words. Oh, yeah. Right? And if you hadn't had done it, who knows what it happened?

Wouldn't have fired McKinness up and wouldn't have led to that? I drilled Dallis Drake in that game. It was either late in the third period or like just one of those old suicide pass hits. Yeah. And I got him like shoulder square right in the nose and smacked his nose and like, I don't remember prongs being just pumped, but I got them. But I catch it on it. I think you can pull it up on YouTube.

But late in the game there, he used to go in. We shook hands and his nose was plugged full of batten because it was... Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know what you're talking about. I go out of good. And it wasn't dirty, but it was hard. And, I mean, I wasn't the crusher hitter, it wasn't the fighter way, but it was just, well, hey, the opportunity was there,

and I went all in on it and it worked out better for me anyways. You remember what it was like having the downstars come to town with Brett Hall? on their team? Was there? Yeah, they were good. I mean, they had a good team that year. They were, they were hard to play against. I still think Eddie, Eddie Belfour was lucky so much in his style. I mean, obviously, you can't deny how good he was, but it's just. I actually read a stat today.

You guys going into game six against them, obviously down three games to two. And in the first five games, you'd out shot him, four of them. And at one point, you don't shot him like by plus 10, plus 15. and the commentators were saying the giant difference in the series at that point, was it Eddie Belpour had been standing on his head, luck or not. Yeah, I mean, he put, like, it was those, like, things would come off and go through his leg and then miss the net. Like, it was just like, I'm like, it's not, you're just getting frustrated as a player.

Like, it's not like he's really making the save. He says, whoreshit lucky, but I mean, I mean, he was obviously horseshit good, but, you know, you can't deny that. But, you know, in the heat of the moment, it's like, This goddamn guy is lucky. He's not making the save. It's just not going in the net. But, you know, they went on and deservedly so won the Stanley Cup, I think.

What was it like walking on those buildings, the atmosphere, the... Oh, playoffs is totally. I mean, you know, I just, if one thing I pull and if there's anything anybody always says you miss, it's those 23 games I got to play in the playoffs. Like, those were, they were just another level. of intensity. And in today's, and at that time, you don't realize how big it is when you're in the midst of it all. Like, it's just like you're doing what you do and every day. And, you know, and I think it took a year or two after being done and coming home and sitting with my buddies

and, you know, going to Boston pizza or something for watch a game and how, you don't, at the time, you don't understand how many people really follow it. It's just, this country's engulfed in hockey and hockey, specifically, playoff hockey. You know, and it was just like, wow, I didn't realize how big it was. I mean, it was just something that I was doing for myself and enjoying for myself. But it's kind of, you know, make you step back and think, holy crap. That was pretty cool. Now, after that year, you go back to the miners, correct?

Nope. After that year, I was a group two free agent. and, you know, Corey Schwab can even, this is the same time, there was some collusion going on, I believe, within the league, because salaries were starting to rise and owners weren't happy. And Corey Schwab had a deal with Tampa Bay. Okay. On Friday, they verbally agreed.

And they said, okay, well, we'll do the paperwork on Monday. And I think Monday comes, we can't sign you is what, happened to Corey. I've been told I can't, we can't, like whoever was doing the dealing, can't sign them. Then I don't get qualified for my qualifying offer. Like a whole bunch of guys were like, nobody's getting contracts. Like, and it was on, it was like, shit, like, there's nothing. All of a sudden, you know, I didn't add a pretty good year last year, not bad, like, you know, and if nothing's happened, but it was kind of league wide. There's lots of guys all of a sudden got stalled and it was like, so then,

I went, my agent at the time, Pat Morris with Newport Sports, he's like, oh, you know, what's going on here? We kind of knew where you would fall in and this isn't right. And I don't know what's going on. And nobody's talking. Like, you can't say it's collusion because, but anyways, I end up agreeing to terms with Chicago. I forgot about Chicago. And I have a contract agreed upon just a matter. I went to camp late, got there, and then they were at 50 contracts.

As soon as they got rid of one guy, then they're going to, they're in the work, so getting rid of somebody. So I went, and it was kind of ironic. I met camp. They traded some guy to somebody else. There's a roster spot open that they can sign me, and nothing's happened for a day, and I'm like, my agent's like, what's going on? And then all of a sudden, St. Louis comes back.

after not qualifying me and says, well, you understand he's in Chicago, but, you know, I had an out closet. If someone else was going to sign me, then I could go. Like, I could just leave Chicago and go to Tampa or wherever. But it was St. Louis who called again. And as soon as that happened, Chicago signs me. So I ended up signing for two years for my last two years there.

What was playing in Chicago, the windy city, the madhouse? Oh, it wasn't no madhouse. Not then. Lauren Malkin. Yeah. He was my coach again. He was the head coach. Funny how the same guys.

Same guys continue to come back. They obviously thought very highly of you to bring you around you. They got, you know, they continue to open the door later in my career. And, you know, the first year was a tough year. Chicago wasn't going anywhere fast. And it was brutal team. We had Tony Amonti, Alex Zaminoff, Boris Mironoff. Big Bobby Probert.

Bobby Probert, great guy. roomed with him on the road a little bit. What was rumored like? Oh, great. He was, he was a, he was a kind soul. Yeah. He was, he was a great guy. Lots of, lots of laughs of him.

He was, he was, do anything for anybody on a team. Eddie Old Chuck was there. That was his last year, I think, her second last year. Yeah, it was, we had some on paper, not, shouldn't be too bad, but just Lauren got fired, and they brought in Elpo, Cizonen, dog food. Don Cherry used to call him or whatever But it was, that was a

You used to call him dog food? Yeah, Elpo Don Cherry made some reference to him on Coach's Corner Elpo, isn't that dog food or some stupid thing? And then it's stuck. It was just a bad environment.

It was just not going. And then once, well, probably in hindsight, once Mr. Wirtz passed away, you know, his son took over the organization and put another, a new stamp on direction and then, you know, the highlight Joel Quinnville and they get Patrick Kane and Taves.

I mean, obviously. Oh, proof says, yeah, yeah, you can see. It turned around a lot. But it was a tough two years there. The second year I ended up getting sent down to Norfolk a bit up and down. And that's at age 31. Yeah, I think so. Somewhere in there.

And then basically, season ended, got home, started to go for my first run for the, and my knee buckled and I was back in Chicago getting knee surgery and said, oh, two weeks he'll be up and going and two months later, he still wasn't really up and going. And that's when I decided that that's enough. So what are you missable playing then? You know, I just, I love going to the rink. I was always one of those four o'clock in the afternoon guys that, get there for a 7.30 game. I'm there for with the trainers.

Just, and practice ends, leaving with the trainers kind of guy. Just doing a little workout, fixing sticks. Yeah. Just love being in the room. Just love the, you know, the group, the guys, the life, really. It was, you know, I guess it was all you ever dreamed of, time was about 10 or 100.

I mean, you think of what it would be like to play in the NHL. Then when you got there, it was more than I ever expected. So it was worth the grind. Who was one of the best guys behind the scene? I would think of like a trainer or equipment manager, somebody who's an unsung hero? Who was one that sticks out? You know, trainers, I love the trainers.

I always really did. Probably the first one, a guy named Ralph Calvinese. He's still in Springfield, working with the American League team there. And that's since he was there in the late 80s. So he's still going, I think. 30 plus years then? All that.

Burt Godin was our equipment guy in St. Louis. Awesome. I was back a few years ago just out of the blue for a weekend to watch some games. And, I mean, I passed a hello on to Bert down, and he come flying out of the room and had a big visit with him. That was pretty cool. Yeah. And then, you know, we had Gapper and Troy Parchment from Shepard.

from from Chicago like Troy's from Saskatoon he went to school in Sastun and he met I actually know his brother now and that but those are they're always great like I always respect of those guys for the work they did I guess I mean I mean you you play so long in the miners you see really how tough it is like those guys are basically by themselves down there you maybe have you know your equipment guy and your medical guy so those two guys you know America League you usually unloading your bus a lot of the times and but you know the late trips they're they do it on their own And, you know, you do recognize that, I guess, over the years and how hard those guys work.

And not to say they have more staff in the NHL, but they also have a lot more, I mean, it's a lot more work because you're traveling is totally different airplanes. And, you know, it's not baggage carriers that do that stuff. It's, it's a, it's a training staff that are hoping that stuff on the airport in the airplanes a lot of times and getting it on the trucks from the rink to the airport and then unloading. And then you get there the next day and your stuff's all in your stuff. ball and you just come and put it on. So I guess always had a true respect for them. And I always made a point of taking them out for supper or something on a road trip, just as a thank you every year to do something, something for them all the work they do.

Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to get to this way, way earlier. But you said one of the coolest persons to influence your life was your dad. And then you mentioned he'd been in a residential school. north of lloyd here in onion lake did he ever talk to you about that oh yeah not not not for a long time yeah not for a long long time i know this is completely switching gears but i'm looking at the time and i'm going i better make sure i bring this up because i was talking about it with with my um with my wife

before i came she taught at uh little pine okay uh south painting there for three years and um you know when you first sent me the residential school thing i was like holy crap right like you know if you don't read into it at all lots of people don't even realize what went on and I don't know it's why I wanted to bring it up because I was just curious if you you know when you said it is the coolest person that influenced your life and that he had been a part of a residential school and it's you know from Hillmont my hometown that's like 20 minutes that's awfully close yeah um well you My grandfather, like my dad, oh, I want to, offhand, I think there's over 15 kids in the family.

And however the system worked back then, I mean, they were told that they were supposed to send these kids to the school. And my grandfather wasn't one to raise conflict. So if they said, this is what's good for them, this is what we're going to do. And, you know, I think there is about four or five of my uncles and aunts that went. And I think my dad, he went for quite a few years. I don't know which one of them weren't the longest, but it was, yeah, I guess, I mean, it's all been documented. It wasn't very good. You know, I think you've got to learn from your mistakes.

I don't think you can continue to carry that forward. And, you know, it's been acknowledged that it was wrong. You know, I don't know how many times anybody can say sorry or what amount of money is going to fix anything. that's happened in the past. But I know it was a very, you know, he wouldn't talk about it for a long time. And then when it did, there was a lot of emotions that were, you know, opened up that, you know, holy, you know, your big burly dad is the toughest in the world is, you know, just a, you know, it was a man trying to survive.

And I guess that part of, you know, that part of his life and my grandparents, My grandfather pushing my dad to be a hockey player. You know, I think it was a light that went on that my grandfather saw, hey, he's got a gift that can get him out of where we're at. I'm going to make him do it. And, you know, in hindsight, that's my dad, says, I never loved the game. But, you know, my dad made me do it. And then it did, you know, in hindsight, took him off the reserve

and, you know, he learned to hard work. work and, you know, become a farmer after. I mean, we farmed on the reserve for years and, you know, putting in work and being a contributing member of the community, you know, give me my, I guess my, set my expectations. Like, he played in the Western League. I had to play in the Western League. You know, and me personally as a kid, I was like, well, my dad won an IHL championship Turner Cup. Well, I got two calder camps.

So I always had to kind of outdo them by one. And I guess in my mind, at the end of the day, my feather in the camp is I made it to the NHL. And, you know, I mean, that's my own, was my own goal, I guess, that I set out. I mean, it was always my dream. You know, and his involvement in hockey transferred into becoming my dream. So I think that's where it could be something positive that has spun off of that situation in that part of his life that he wanted to be more than just a victim. Yeah, thanks for sure.

I mean, I didn't realize your dad had made it that far. I didn't realize, you know, we'd mention it right at the top that he'd gotten drafted by the boss. an organization, but we never really went further than that. And so he was a guy who actually won a Turner Cup. Yeah, he played Nestavon with Greg Shepard, Skip Craig. I mean, I've met those guys and those names. Dale Hogan from Battleford, they played down Nestavon, and they beat Flint.

They used to go head-to-head with Reggie Leach and Bobby Clark in junior days, and they won the league and went to the Memorial Cup. They went to a Memorial Cup one year in Niagara Falls. It was a best of seven against Niagara Falls and played all their games out there, but he made it there, and then he continued on to Bruins camp, and just, I mean, that's when Bruins were really good,

and just there was no room. He always said that, I guess, the Rangers had interest in him, but in those days there was no, you know. A little different time. You were not going to give a guy to somebody else kind of thing, so. We should bring up, you know, what you're doing now.

You'd mentioned going to, I believe, Yukon, Northwest Territories? Am I directing that? John Chabot got hold of me last year, and he's put together an Aboriginal, our indigenous NHL alumni team that last year we traveled with

Brian Trotche, Reggie Leach, Jamie Leach, Aaron Ashum, myself, John Chabot. Rick Natress was along. He's a great talker and speaker, and then we brought J.S. O. Ben, just as a goalie. They needed a goalie. Goalies are always hard.

Some of these guys weren't First Nation people or indigenous, but they contributed to the cause kind of thing. And we went up to these isolated communities up north and would meet the chief and council in the community and then go to the schools and meet the kids and either do a classroom, things with the kids, or like an assembly. And then we would usually put on a couple clinics,

couple hour clinics for the kids, for the hockey players, and then at the end of the day, we'd play their local senior team or whatever old-timer team they had, and it's just a fun game, and then they usually give us a meal after the day, and it was really, it was just unbelievably great. I can't see enough for guys like Brian Trotche and Reggie Leach. That whole group is there for the right reason.

They had nothing but time for people. It was never, okay, I mean, how many more do we have to sign or how much longer do we have to be? They, they would, if nobody took them out of there, they'd be still there today. I mean, that's just the kind of people those guys are. And the group that John Chabot has put together is, it's, it's phenomenal. And I think, you know, you can just see it in the kids and the people's eyes when us as a group, I mean, if it wasn't really for Trots and Reggie, I mean, they're the headliner guys. We understand that, but, you know, the kids are excited just to see anybody that

played in the NHL and those guys have pretty some pretty unique stories of their their successes and their you know their things that they went through in their life to to get to where they got to and and not of all that's been pretty and you know reggie is a great one for um you know his his line is own your decisions you know when you make a decision good or bad you got to own it and you know he made some bad ones he said with alcohol and his troubles there but you know he's overcome those things now and it spreads those messages to these communities from a, you know, from a high profile position. And, you know, if we, at the end of the day, you're not going to save everybody, but if he save

one, I think the whole trips are worth it. Yeah, it's pretty cool that you get to be a part of, you know, something that can have an impact like that. Yeah, I think it, I mean, it's, it was new to me last year, and I'm going back again, this time to the Northwest Territories also, and back to the Yukon in March. and looking, I mean, looking forward to it. I think John's got a couple new guys. I think Scott Daniels is going to be coming this year to both of those trips.

And he wasn't with us last year, but he was with, we were invited to the hometown hockey with Ron McLean at Enoch. Yeah. And we were all part of that celebration. Got to meet Ron McLean this last year more than that. Never really met him. Oh, he's a great guy. Yeah. I mean, phenomenal guy.

And, you know, you just kind of, you know, it's like you meet some people. people in home forever and that's kind of that's the kind of personality Ron is and he just he's so I mean I don't know where he comes up with this stuff because he knows I mean I got to write down my own life he knows he knows everybody else's life like he pulls names and times and games like I can't I can't name half the guys I've played with those with as many teams as I've been he can he can pull plays that I was in well I remember that game and I'm like I don't remember it but once again he he was talking on spit and chicklets and that question got asked how he's so good like that and he brought

up uh they they were basically talking about different guys brains and how they function and they brought up grexky remembering every he was saying grexky can recall every single goal he ever scored in h-h-all which would be right like to have a memory like that on something like that and he just uh he'd been taught early i read his book and in his book it talked about and then i heard it on another interview, I've heard it several times from him now that in order to be a good interviewer or conversationalist, you fall back on your preparation, right? And so he talks a lot about the amount of preparation that goes into any interview or anything he does in front of the audience. I kind of got that from meeting him in the places that we were together. Yeah, he does touch upon.

Well, even walking on the spitting checklets, I find it how quickly and easily he uses all their names, knows their parents' names, has done, it's like, you're like, that's another level of preparation. Like, it's very, very smooth. And he always talks about, you know, if you go back long enough, I was not always like this, but you go back long enough, he still was that smooth.

He was just a young kid doing it. Yeah, for sure. We had to, that Enoch thing was really a great day. I was able to bring my mom and dad to it, and my wife and my youngest daughter who plays college volleyball at Nate here. And she got to meet all these guys, and she had five of Brian's rings on her hands and pictures with Sarah Sloan and Ron.

And just, you know, they were just so accommodating and, you know, just made it. It makes it extra special. I always kind of got, you know, I'd like to see my friends and my family get into these more. To me, I've been there kind of in some regards. guards, but I always get a kick because I know got lots of friends at home and how they would, they're so excited to get to walk in those circles for a short time.

That's really cool. Well, we're closing in on two hours. I know time flies when you get going on this, but I want to do the final segment. It's the final five brought to us by Crude Master, Heath and Tracy, who'd shout out to them. They've been huge supporters of mine since I started. So it's just five questions quicker as long as you want. We can go wherever you want with them down any rabbit hole. But if you could choose two linemates then, past, present, current, don't matter.

If you want to play on McDavid's wing, I'm all good for it. Who would you take? Oh, Craig Connory and Scott Pellarine. That would be your line, yeah? You go back to it in a heartbeat. Yep. No problem there. That was a big starting point in my NHL career that we actually,

developed an identity as a group and and you know we worked for each other and it was great human beings and they've both done very well and you know just proud to say I was you know a part of their little trio it's uh you don't get too many years where you get the same line mates no so one of the tough things probably about the n hl specifically is it's not well even the hl probably there probably was not many years where you got to come across a group like those two and then get to stick with them for four or five years is probably you're lucky if you got 20 games in a row where nobody got hurt or traded or no that was just one great year yeah yeah yeah if you could go for coffee with one person current or passed who would you go with

probably well jimmy roberts like i just he passed away and i was probably you know regrets a wasted emotion but um when he passed uh i was hoping to see him once before he pat basically since post hockey just the touch base or a visit because he was he was a yeah he was a great he was my hockey grandpa and and just it would have been nice to just to see him one more time if you could go back to any rink in your prime and playing it where would you go I mean, to me, it was always probably, you know, Maple Leaf Gardens, just Montreal form. Like, it's just never, I don't know, those are the, probably the two buildings that, I mean, Rexall was huge because I grew up as an Islander fan and oilers, always went head to head. When I got there, it was, you know, it's the Rexall place.

The history was, is what made the building beautiful, right? So, I mean, the Toronto, you know, Maple Leaf Gardens was cool to play there. It's just, you know, something you grew up from when you first started watching hockey and seeing Hero Bell are sitting in the corner and you get there and that's where he used to sit. Like, that would be the building I'd go back. I would love to play again. If you could take a time machine and go to anywhere, where would you go? Time machine.

Yes, we're defying the laws of physics. Um, you know, probably just back to, we had nothing to just with family. I think if I had a time machine, I'd be taken back to have all my grandparents back. That'd be more important to me than a rink. That's interesting. But, I, uh, so with doing the podcast, I just did Terrence Bexson. He was the episode before he was in 90, uh, and got to go down, like, like memory lane with him where you get to like just hear his stories and talk about you know growing up

through dirty 30s in world war two and not that he was in world war two but he was a kid that left school at 11 to be put on a team of horses to plow the field because there was nobody else to do it kind of thing and you're like wow i guess i can't even fathom that so i love i wish my family myself and my four siblings wish we would have had something on her grandparents right because they came through that timer and it's just different. What about sitting down or, you know, if you had a time machine to go back and sit with your grandparents, would you stick out to you?

What would you be? Well, if I could be able to let my grandfather know that I made it. My mom's dad, he thought, well, he passed away before I made it, so it was just like, you know, he was a big fan of mine. he was I was playing a mooseja so he wants to come up and watch me play

and he's not driving no more this is nearly when he's older and he takes the bus from Balford to Moose Jaw booked himself into a hotel so I had to pick him up at the bus and drop him off

at the hotel he wasn't going to stay at the billets because he doesn't want to bother anybody so we get told me Kim and Rex they said grandpa's that thing they're going to pick him up for the game. So get down, get to the game,

and, and he's like, I don't want to get him nervous. He doesn't want to get me nervous, right? So Rex is, well, then let's just go to our seat. Like, we'll just go up to our seats, and then Rex turns around,

and he's gone. Well, he's down at the glass banging at me. So he was, I'm like, look back, and it's grandpa. I gave him the thumbs up, and if you knew, him, he had no teeth, so he gives his puckered smile, and he gives me the fist. And so he was pumped.

And then if it wasn't, we're playing Regina Pats, I get a penalty shot. And Rex is like, oh, God, my grandpa got quiet. It's like, oh, I scored. Well, his chest went out, and he was pumped. And next thing, you know, we won the game. Get down, come in the room, all of a sudden, knock at the door, there's Grandpa, right into the dressing room. wheels right into the room.

You know, those are the days when still, you know, those are off limits, but no, Grandpa, he didn't want to be, he didn't want to make a scene, but he always made a scene. That was one of those cool, cool memories. He always bought a season ticket to the Warriors games. Probably the only time he ever, he was the only one he ever went to,

but from the day I got there, he always support the team, right? So he'd buy a season ticket every year for us. So he was quite the character. Final one. What's the best lesson than you've learned over your time? Well, I think you touched upon, I think really don't burn bridges in life. I kind of stated like happiness is a choice, so you've got to make a decision.

If you're not happy with where you're at, then you've got to do something about it and change it. Like to me, happiness isn't a reaction. It's an action. And, you know, I try to instill that in my everyday life and my family. And, you know, but, you know, it's all kind of clichéish, but it's what it is. I was hoping you're going to bring that up because I thought it was a very, like I say, I sent these little questionnaires off just to kind of give a little background, a little kind of idea where we might touch upon.

And that was your answer, essentially, but you said happiness is a choice, embrace who you are, make decisions that please yourself. And I thought that was very, I don't think that's cliche at all. I think that's very. Well, that's kind of, I mean, when I was home, like I said, and not playing, you know, I'd been trying to please everybody else and do, live up to everybody's expectations that weren't realistic. And when I just said, hell, I'm just going to go and do my thing. and that's when everything started to turn around and, you know, timing with my wife and, you know, there's no pity party in our world.

So, you know, it was what I needed, really, at the time. It was exactly what I needed. And, you know, the coaches that were the hardest on me, probably in hindsight is the ones I performed the best. Warren was in his heart on me, but he was the first guy that ever believed to me. And that was all I needed at that time. but like Bob Hartley was he was a tyrant but made me the best I could be so yeah there's no

that's basically it in a nutshell well I really appreciate you know we talked a couple weeks ago and it just kind of came together you know I think quick some guys have been talking to for six months and it's just schedules and everything else so I really appreciate you making the time and sit down this has been this has been awesome I've really enjoyed this One thing. Question number six, I just remembered this. What was the first thing I said to you on the phone? Do you remember? The Miniskwin Islanders. I got to ask about this. I've forgotten all about this. The Minnes Stickwin Islanders is when I leave Lloyd. So I'm not around. I left Lloyd for about eight years. And in the middle of that, the Minnistakwin Islanders are formed, which are no more. And you end up coming to play for them. Did you win an Allen Cup? No, we didn't win. It was here in Lloyd.

The Olympic was here in Lloyd that year. I kind of vowed I'd never play senior hockey. Okay. It's just, it wasn't, I didn't, you know, I just don't, you know, people can't make all this money. I don't really, I don't see the value. I mean, could I use money? Yeah. But I just never thought it was right.

I mean, that was my own personal thing. And I just, there was nothing to gain. But the opportunity come to go to Japan with that group and represent Canada at a Nagano Cup. And it was like, that's more than just senior hockey. And that's not a paycheck or not. It was just a life experience. And it was awesome.

We had so much fun. Corey Schwab was in a lockout year. He come as an assistant coach with Wayne Guzzle, who coaches at Augustine now. Martin Smith was the local guy that I, you know, still good buddies with him today. And there's Russ Hughes. had a great team. I mean, it was a great team and a great group of guys, and it was actually

a lot of fun. And I think the most fun I had was actually our series between Ildeshaen and Saskatchewan, Manitoba, where they had Pat Falloon and Kelly Guala, and Stan Reddick was a goalie, which my old goalie from Moostrow, but that was, like, that was the closest to real hockey that I played since being out of professional hockey. And I thought, that was a lot of fun. The Lloyd, Alan Cup was, well, Horse Lake was here with Gino and and Theo and, oh, crap, a bunch of guys.

And that was just a circus. You know, there's some, Theo and I played junior together for a few years and, you know, one of my guys I really, really look up to the most and admire as a, as a player and the stuff that he's gone through. But that whole thing, it was fun. I mean, I did, I did enjoy it.

The support in Lloyd here was crazy, like sold out every senior game. It was just, it was not. So it was, that was fun, but that was like half a season. And after that, it was like, my body's not, not built to take all this anymore. What was Japan like? Well, it was a lot of, we had a blast. I mean, who goes to Japan? I mean, I don't, and then you get to go with a bunch of, like a hockey team that just makes it that much fun.

But our team was come together from all over. Alberta and Saskatoon, the Wattasquin to Edmonton, and can come together for games and play and then go home. And we get to Japan, that's our first practice as a team, is in Japan. And we're playing against a professional Russian team and Japan's national team. Wow. I mean, Olympic ice, and we have no systems, no, like our poor goalie, Stephen Wagner, he got. But we lost like 12, 3 and 13-2. 5-on-5, we lost 3-2 and 4-3.

5-on-5. But as soon as they got the power play, our goalie, they're peppering one-timers off the umbrella on the big ice, and we had no sort of a, you know, it's too short of a time period. But, you know, it was just, it was fun. It was a great experience, but the hockey wasn't, I mean, wasn't that great. They were a lot better than us, but we were a senior team, right? Yeah.

It's a national team. But the Russian pro team, actually, there's a guy that I played with in the American League at one time. I mean, they were paid to play. They were working at it every day. But great experience, and I think they kind of kiboshed all that. No, they don't think they do all that. No, I'm pretty sure they don't, but I could be wrong on that too.

But it was kind of the, that was the reward for winning the Allen Cup. Correct. It was the Nagano Cup. And that year that we went, it was the year that summer they turned the Quebec League into a professional league, because it was basically a professional hockey league that is senior professional. And I'm going to stick one where the runners up that year, so they got to go as representing Canada the next year because they kind of disqualified the group that won. The group that won. Yeah.

It was a lot of fun. Well, heck, I really enjoyed this. I really appreciate you coming. I'll say it again. I'll try and tie it in a bow again. I really appreciate you coming into town and sitting down with me for a couple hours. It's been a lot of fun. Like I say, we didn't know each other from a hole in the wall before we walked in,

but I've really appreciated you sitting down and being open and sharing some stories. Yeah, thanks for having me. I mean, it's the first time I ever did something like this. And then, you know, like I don't talk about the stuff a whole lot anymore. It's just, you know, the odd story comes up after old timers, but not to this detail. And, you know, I think hopefully somebody has. has something to pull from it, I think.

Like I kind of touched when we first met, I think, I'm only guy, one of me, maybe the only guy that ever went, as an out player, but playing the NHL to out of hockey altogether and then playing senior and then scratch it his way back. All the way back to the league to put together a little bit of a career. So, yeah, that's my own little feather. But, uh, hey, it was,

it was lots of fun. Wouldn't change it for the world. Well, I really appreciate you sitting down. Thanks again. You got her, Sean.