Shaun Newman Podcast - #570 - Frank Peretti

Episode Date: January 19, 2024

New York Times bestselling author with over 12 million copies of his books sold worldwide. He wrote This Present Darkness back in 1986 and Piercing the Darkness in 1989 popularizing the Christian thriller genre.  Let me know what you think. Text me 587-217-8500 Substack:https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcastE-transfer here: [e-mail] Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/ Email: [e-mail] Phone [phone] – general sales line, ask for Grahame and be sure to let us know you’re an SNP listener.

This is Danielle Smith. This is Tammy Peterson. This is Alex Kraner. This is Curtis Stone. This is Tom Lomago, and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks. Well, let's start here. Nah, you know what?

Man, Friday. I don't even know where to begin. Yesterday announced Frank Paredi. You're already seeing that Frank Pretti is today. I mean, let's start here. We'll start here, and then I'll get into a few thoughts on Frank Predict. Okay. Silver Gold Bull.

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and nice and easy. Whether it's just to talk about investing, this is I'm saying if you want to email Graham or call them, whether it's to talk about precious metals or just to say thanks for supporting the podcast. Go to the show notes. I would love to have you guys remind and just let them know, hey, we're listening and Silver Gold Bowl, it's super cool that you're supporting the Sean Newman podcast. Of course, if you're going to buy silver gold, go to silvergoldbill.com. dot CA, super cool. And, yeah, Frank Freak and Peretti, folks. Frank Freak and Peretti.

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never run out of whatever it makes you tick along frank freaking paredi folks frank pretty um but i don't what can i say we talked for an hour maybe a little less than that and um it was a lot of fun like i don't know everybody i think at this point and understands how much the books have really meant to me. You'll probably hear it in the interview. But it was, it was super cool of him to hop on and, um, uh, I can't, uh, speak how, you know, how this all goes about. Like it's just, it's a bit of a wild story, right? So, uh, you know, uh, I got to give a shout out to, um, Seth Blum for putting it on my radar, because without Seth, I don't, I don't know how on earth, uh, this happens. And then I got to thank Ben Trudeau for listening to me,

say Frank Pretti 17,000 times. and getting Brad Mix into the mix. And between the two of them, they found a way to get to Frank Prady. Frank Prattie agrees. And here in a couple minutes, you're going to hear Frank Prattie on the Sean Newman podcast, which is super freaking cool. What's cooler, honestly, is we turn the mic off, you know, so we go about an hour and then, you know, as being cognizant of time with Frank.

And then we talk for probably another hour, you know. So I'm not going to apologize about it. that doesn't happen very often. And the conversation after this conversation ends was, man, was everything, not everything I wanted to be, just like, you know, he started asking some questions, but what's going on in your life, you know, and you kind of go back and forth. It's just super cool. Like, I mean, it's just super cool.

So to all the people out there who texted me and tried helping me get Frank Paredi and there was a lot. All of you in the audience who, you know, uh, reached out to, you know, bookstores and, and,

um, sent me links of maybe this would work or try this, try this, try here. Um, we tried a lot of different things. And eventually we got Frank Paredi. So, um,

I realized Frank Pready isn't, uh, you know, I get it. He isn't, uh, you know, the,

the popular one with me is Jordan Peterson. Everyone's asking him with Jim Peterson. But for some reason, I just felt it was really important to get a hold of, Frank Prady. Why that is? I have no idea. I have no idea if this is the greatest episode, worst episode. But for me, sitting there, getting to interview him, and then they get to have a chat afterwards was pretty surreal, if I'm being completely honest. So thank you to all of you wonderful human beings out there who continue to listen to me, jabber on,

bring different guests on. This was one that I really wanted, and it was the number one guest I wanted to get in 2024, and we're at January 19th, and we knocked it out of the park. So let's track some people down, shall we? Let's have a little fun here and see who else. We can get on the SMP in 2024. Hoo. That's all I got. You know?

It's all I got. What's going on on the tale of the tape? He's a New York Times best-selling author, selling over 12 million copies worldwide. of some of his hits like this present darkness and piercing the darkness. He's originally from Lethbridge, Alberta. Yeah, I'm talking about Frank Peretti. So buckle up, here we go. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast.

Today, I'm joined by Frank Peretti. I have to give a shout out to Ben Trudeau, and by proxy or working through Ben Trudeau, Brad Mix, because without the two of them, I don't know how this would have happened. I've been talking about you now for several months, and either way, sir, just thanks for for hopping on today. I'm glad we made it.

Now, the way you come to my realm is I went to Ottawa. I went to the Freedom Convoy. I started this podcast in 2019 and in 2022, I rode with part of the Freedom Convoy from Ontario into Ottawa and documented some of the things, saw some of the things, and there was just stuff going on that I couldn't put my finger on. I was like, what is, you know, going on? And I came home and I've wrestled with that question for a very long time.

Now, when I grew up, I was a big reader. I enjoyed, you know, Lord of the Rings and Dune and C.S. Lewis, different writings of his and on and on and on. It went. I would be very much into these big worlds of imagination. And so you fast forward to a few months ago, Frank, And I'm in a secondhand store looking for a jersey, a hockey jersey for my son, who's seven. And there's this back room filled with all these old books. And I go, oh, I'm from going there, Sean.

Like, if I go in there, I'm going to buy something. And I'm not reading anything at this point. I'm just struggling to get through a book. But, you know, I go in. And I start looking at all the titles. And I'd only been praying for, I don't know, a few months before that. And reading the Bible and what have you. And I started praying in there.

I'm like, you know, God, if you want me to pick up a book in here, well, just maybe opens my eyes so I could see it. Because I don't know what book I'm supposed to grab. And the next title I see about four down the line is Frank Peretti. And I'm like, Frank Peretti, why do I know that name? And one of the listeners had been sending me a talk of yours. And he said, oh, man, this changed my life, changed my life. Frank Pretti, Frank Pretti.

And so I just Googled your name and Frank Prerty. comes up and I'm like oh yeah it's a guy who sounds like Jeff Foxworthy and I start laughing and I'm like okay um you know I'm like oh all right so I grabbed the book and I'm like wait how do I know this is you and I flip open the book and here's Ephesian 6 and I'm like all right you got me all right I'm going to go by I spent $2 on uh on a two book set you know this present darkness and piercing the darkness and I flipped open though I went home I was actually rather excited. I went home and I haven't been this excited to read a book in quite some time. And then I read the first page and I'm like, what the heck is this? I thought it was his

autobiography on Frank Peretti. So then I Google who you are because I'm like, I still don't know who you are Frank. And here you're from Lethbridge and I'm like, hmm, I find that interesting. Okay. And I'm like, all right, an Alberta guy. And then it goes on to say you're the Stephen King of the Christian world and I start laughing because I'm like, I've never heard a soul of you. I grew up going to church never heard your name. So I start talking more and more because I read your book. And in the first two pages, no, first two chapters, I'm like, oh my God, this guy gets it. This is, this is something. He was written the year I was born, you know, and I'm just like, how the heck do I get this guy on? I just want to, I just want to talk. I just want to say, say, you know, like, thank you for the books

you wrote because it's brought the love of reading, just racing back to my life. And that's Sean Spiel off. I just, if nothing else, as I told the listeners over and over again, I just wanted to get you on so I could be like, thank you for writing that book, because it's meant the world to me. That's amazing. That's really amazing. It's a, whew, the Lord has used those books. All I did was write them, you know.

I felt back then, that was back in 86 that I finished this present darkness a long time ago. I had brown hair and everything, you know. But, yeah, I hear from folks. It's really, it's the head of God. I'm so glad I could do something he could use. There's folks who've read that book. They've gotten saved, you know. They've had their lives turned around, eyes open.

Well, good. God's using it. That's great. Well, you've got to tell me then, if I go back to when Frank's a kid, You know, they say you're from Lethbridge. You know, from my readings, it sounds like you grew up in Washington. I could be wrong on that.

I'd love to just hear the story. Who the heck is Frank Paredi? Because, you know, unbeknownst to me, here you are the successful author. I just thought you were some, honestly, I thought you were some preacher. When I first heard you talk, I had no idea who you were. And so now I just want to, you know, tell me a little bit about yourself. Oh, well, let's see. I guess I was a preacher when you heard the recording.

because I did a lot of speaking for several years. I did pastor a church with my dad for five years or so. I went and did a lot of youth conferences and youth camps. I was a big youth speaker. And then when I became an author, I kind of, you know, went in the big time, so to speak, turning around, flying all over the country, speaking at churches and conferences and everything.

That's probably where you got to. the recordings for one of those. So that was, boy, that was about 30 years of my life. I was doing that sort of thing. And before that, I was a pastor. And before that, I was around about that. I was a carpenter and a printer. I worked in a ski factory.

And I worked at McDonald's for six hours before I got fired. Why did you get fired from McDonald's? How do you get fired from McDonald's? Yeah, that's really the pitch, you know. If you get fired for McDonald's, you're pretty bad. I couldn't, I didn't know how to run the cash register, and I didn't know how to count change. I'm going to blame the management for that because they should have trained me better, you

know, how to count change and run the cash register. I came up short on the cash register. I suppose they thought I was lifting money out of the cash register. But I wasn't, I was a good boy. I just didn't know how to run it. So anyway, that was my first job. Hey, I never worked for McDonald's again, which I guess that makes sense. But I was born in Lethbridge.

I moved with my family to Seattle just right away because I had a whole bunch of cystic hygroma in my neck. And so we had to go down to the Children's Orthopedic Hospital in Seattle. I had a whole bunch of surgeries and stuff. And I was just a little baby, little toddler. And my dad worked at Boeing for some 30 years. Anyway, I grew up in Seattle, and that's where that all started. When, how do you write the story of this present darkness?

And I'm sure that's been asked a thousand times over. But my curiosity is, I can't contain it. it. Like I just like how do you put those words to paper? How does that story come about? Well, I'm going to give the Lord a lot of credit for that. Just spurring the imagination. But let's see, there's a whole lot of things that came together all at once. One was my just fire, my joy of being a storyteller anyway. I was a storyteller from the time I was a little kid. I'd write comics and type stories on my mom's tower, a portable typewriter. And then I'd gather the kids of the neighborhood under the back ports and tell them stories.

So, you know, storytelling was just, that's what I've cut out to do. And then let's see. Oh, you take that and then run about, oh, man, when was that? early 80s, mid-80s, that's what Star Wars came out and Superman, those first really cool action, you know, spaceships and flying and fights and all this stuff going on. And right about that same time was when the new age movement started picking up. So that became an ingredient in the whole thing. So you mix all that together.

And I just began to see this story. of wow, what if you had angel superheroes, you know? And what if you had real conflict, like demonic powers trying to take over? Anyway, this whole thing formulated and it all came together. It was a five-year process. I worked on that book for five years, just trying different ideas. I was excited, though. I remember working as a carpenter that had my hammer.

you know the hammer became a sword you know and i was probably wearing those nails as i was imagining being an angel with a sword so i was really into it that's kind of cool because the lord gives you that fire i had a real fire it was a i wanted it was the one thing i wanted to do before i died was get that book written and i didn't even know if it ever be published but i just had to write it So, oh, it was a good time. I was living in a 25-foot travel trailer. Barb, my wife, and I were living in this trailer. And I was working on a print shop,

and then I was working on a ski factory. And we were just trying to make their ends meet. And I was just tapping away on my typewriter. That's back in the days of typewriters. So Ronald Medallion 2, electric typewriter, with a broken left margin. Yeah, so yeah, I worked on it for five years. And then I said it did not get it published, and that took quite a while too.

I sent it to 14 different publishers. And some I didn't hear from at all, some rejected it, some, well, Crossway originally said, well, it's interesting, but it's a little too strange, really not sure what to do with it, so they turned it down. And then I sent them one of my kids' books, by Cooper books, by Cooper books. That's a lot of the story. And they liked the Cooper book,

and so they said, we want to publish that. And they said, oh, by the way, you said this other idea, something about Marshall Hogan and spiritual warfare. And we want to take a look at that. And, you know, I hadn't even typed it up yet. I sent them a proposal, but the rough draft was just all a mess.

As a matter of fact, I typed the rough draft on the back of UCLA research library form letters. The library was throwing out a whole stack of these form letters. And I said, hey, free papers. So there's still blank on one side. So I wrote the whole manuscript on the back of form letters. Still have it.

I was just going to say, did you keep that? Yeah, I still have it. The original, it's in three, it's in two, three rig binders up there in the storeroom. And yeah, all the corrections, that's back in the days before word processors, you know. It's all written in with pen and wrote, crossed things out, wrote things in, and the whole thing. It's, yeah, big, well, we first sent that thing to the publisher. It was 750 typewritten pages.

I sent it in a box that church bulletins come in. And isn't that something? Things have really changed, you know. because you don't do anything like that anymore. Do you sit back from time to time and think about the story you told in that book and go, man, it resembles some things going on today. And maybe you've thought that for a very long time.

But I read that book. And I remember calling the guy who'd sent me your name, Seth Blune. I remember telling him Frank gets it. Like that book right there, I'm not saying everything happens and plays out identical to it. Maybe it does, I don't know. But certainly in my life, what happens in that book makes a ton of sense. And when you look at the world today, when you're trying to make sense of all this craziness,

what is really going on? You go read that and you go, well, we don't talk about spiritual warfare. We don't. I don't remember, unless you go into church maybe, folks. I mean, I just, up until a year ago, I certainly didn't. since coming from Ottawa, I certainly do now. It's certainly very much of like, hmm, this is definitely out there. And your book is, I don't know, you, you must have sat.

I don't know, I guess my question is, you know, you stare at the world today and you read that, you know, you wrote that. Do you go, oh, it's playing out right in front of us? It always has, which is really interesting kind of the head of God again. the book is the way I put it is you're writing about this to write about that in other words the actual characters the actual town the actual storyline of this present darkness is within its own universe so to speak but it parallels over time it parallels what's going on in the real world I can't, I mean, it's just most everywhere I've ever been, someone comes up to me and says,

you wrote about my town. And, well, I know I didn't write about their town, but in a way, yeah, I did. Because they recognize what's happening in the book as happening in their town in their way. The spiritual elements, the conflict, the conflict between the spiritual good and spirit, spiritual evil and the struggle that we have in our own hearts, it's embodied in that story. People relate to it. Well, it seems like more than a story, I guess, is what I'm trying to point out. To me, I'm like, you know, I watched C.S. Lewis, uh, not the line, The Witch and the

Wardrobe. It's like, um, I don't know, the third movie. Anyways, Asland is talking about sending them back to their world. And they ask a question of Asland. And Aslan said, oh, I'll be there. And the way he puts it, I'm like, that's literally, they're literally putting in place instead of Jesus. They literally put a lion. And if you just can read between the lines, that's exactly what he's talking about. I'm like, what a wild thing. Because if you, if you put Jesus in that spot, they wouldn't have published a movie. I would have been like, there's no way we're built.

But since it's a lion, now they allow it because it doesn't feel like it's Christianity talking. It can be anything. Yet you sit there and you look at it. Like, but that's exact, Aslan's literally doing what Jesus did, right? He's saying things that come straight out of the Bible almost, right? And your story is, although it's a story, right? It's fictional. It's, it's a non-existent place in town, whatever.

It resembles what is going on. And it's been time. You know, I had a lady reach out to me and thank me for what I've been doing because she said, I'm leaving footprints. for other people to follow it. And I immediately thought of your book. I'm like, your book has done that, whether you know it or not.

Here I am, you know, it was written the year, or published the year, I was born. So like, I mean, I wasn't reading anything, you know? And I just never came across my, my lifetime until I'm at 37 and I need a book to get me back into reading. And I pray about it.

And then it is the book that explains partially what the heck happened in my life. It just, to me, I'm like, I'm like, I couldn't put it down, Frank. And I know you, all of us have had those books where you read and you can't put it down. Once upon a time when I was a kid, you know, Lord of the Rings, the first one, the Hobbit. I couldn't put it down as a kid. You're reading it until 2 in the morning.

Like, go to bed, but oh, man, I just want to read another page. And I hadn't had that feeling in forever. And then comes along this old decrepit, you know, secondhand book that's falling apart. I love it more now than ever. I'm like, this thing is special. Hardcover from back in the day, got donated, didn't know where the life is. You know, there used to be a cartoon about what was that, folks, about the ornaments off a tree, I think. And how, you know, at the start, it was this bright and shiny object.

And then it goes through the process and a new family finds it and shines it back up. I forget what that story is. Somebody else will text me. And to me, that's what you're booked it. I mean, it just had this path of how it's going to find me in a secondhand bookstore. And people write that off as whatever, coincidence and everything else. but I know what that is. Like to me, that is so self-evident.

And, man, I just, I, I could, when I finish reading the first one, Frank, I could have come and given you a big hug if I'd known where you were. I just needed it so much. And I don't know how to explain that in as many words as probably I'm babbling on saying right now. Okay. Well, consider yourself hugged. Thank you. Well, you're welcome.

Did you ever think about writing a third? Yeah. But it just never... It still hasn't come together. I'm still kind of waiting on the Lord to help me. I've got tons of notes and reams of notes and attempts and pages. And, oh, I've made several attempts over the last few years, trying to write the third one and that hasn't come yet so I'm still wondering

I just kind of wait on the Lord here to see what's going on I've been rather discouraged but he he's got to play he always does so we'll see yeah it'd be nice to get the old fire back you know I had that had that fire that that unction from the spirit, just really wanted to do it. And I feel a little bit of that, but I'm still waiting to see, where's the Lord going with this? What's next? We're doing a, well, you know, there have been several attempts that made a movie of this thing.

So we're still pounding away at that. We might give it another try. A lot of has changed in the film world. There's a lot of new marketing out there with, what do you call that crowdfunding, that kind of thing. I just think of Angel Studios what they did for Sound of Freedom and other things. Like this would be right up their alley. Yes, that kind of thing. See, this is a different world.

Streaming and crowdfunding and all kinds of things. And, of course, the marvelous motion pictures technology. that they have now. They could really, they could do this story now. I remember when we were first talking about making the movie of this thing, we were still talking about

live action and live models and rubber demons or something, because that's all we had back then. And now, with the technology and computer graphics, you can do anything. Well, we were just talking about Lion Winston-Wart Room,

and Aslan the Lion, every little hair, on his face and body is alive, you can do incredible things. You can take that whole imaginary journey of this present darkness and just bring it to life. It would be so cool. So that idea hasn't died. We're still thinking about it. We're entering into a new attempt.

I'm working on a screenplay, and we have some producers who are going to see what they can rustle up. You never know what God will do. When you talk about the fire, having the fire, like you just, you know, you can see it on your face when you talk about it. Did you lose that then? Or was it like, it just comes and when it comes you can't control and you're just like being pulled by a bullet train? How would you explain it, I guess? Well, a little bit of bullet train like you're being, there's just very much excited. single focus, it's just this is it. This is what I want to do. I want to write this book.

And everything else starts to fall by the wayside. Everything else is like secondary to getting that book written. And there's this excitement. Oh, I wrote a whole string of books. You know, I wrote all the Cooper books for kids. I wrote the oath and monster and the visitation and the two darkness books, big novels. And throughout that time, there was just this fire that made me want to sit down and write. And it could be age, it could be just the seasons of life, different things the Lord brings you through.

I'm 73, and I'm just wondering about my life and where God wants me to go. I don't know where the fire, well, I know where the fire comes from, comes from the Lord, but... I don't understand his timing necessarily. I just wait on him to see what I'm supposed to do. And at least I'm working on a screenplay and I'm working on a treatment of this present darkness.

That's good just to be writing something to kind of, you know, come on, wake up, get with it, get in there. It's been fun. I've enjoyed it. I feel like half the time on this show, you know, when I first started, I was interviewing hockey players, athletes, community pillar type people who didn't talk about their lives. And then through COVID, you know, I basically dropped all that. Went into 180s, started interviewing lawyers, professors, doctors, just everyday citizens who had been harmed by different things.

And along that way, I went to Ottawa. And in Ottawa, I was confronted by what I have a hard time explaining. Now, I've prefaced this many a time in this interview with, you know, like, if you go read your book, I ran into, you know, what Marshall Hogan's like, what the heck is going on? Like, I just don't understand. It just makes, and I'm just like, oh, like coming out of Ottawa, you started to talk to different people. It's led me to faith. It's led me back to the Bible.

It's led me back to all these different things. And I, when you talk about the fire, I'm like, that's interesting. because I'm like half the time I don't know where I'm going anymore right like I feel like I have a plan and then and then I get pulled you know like I it was a harmless harmless day at a store buying a hockey jersey and then it just you know all sudden sitting right there in front of you and away you go again and I'm like I've been talking about Frank Brady and the funny thing is most people who who've been going to church oh yeah I remember those novels they were great why do you want to interview

him I'm like because he's he's he's literally put a couple puzzle pieces into my life that I've been missing that I couldn't figure out. And I have a zero clue where I'm going with this thing at times. And it's led me to you, which has been super cool. Wow. It's that interesting how the Lord just keeps using that book generationally. Your parents, you know, your parents' generation, we're the ones reading that book, and now here you are. It's a, it's one thing. about it in the book, this present darkness is, like we were talking about, it's metaphorical, it's allegorical, it's like a parable, even across the years it still applies and there's still

a real world that you recognize when you read the book. And how about that? That's something. I mean, when you're first writing it, I highly, well, I don't know, maybe you thought it would last that long. Maybe you didn't. I have no idea. No clue. I didn't know. I didn't know it would even be published. But I had to write it. God had his plans. So it's amazing. It's from his hand. You know, you talk about the new age movement.

You just brought it up briefly. And like in today's world, there's so much out there that I don't even attempt to understand, maybe. But I've been confronted with, you know, a lot of. lots of different things out there. When you were writing that, or maybe even looking at today, what are your thoughts on the New Age movement? And how would you even explain it?

Well, the New Age movement was just a trend. It was a packaging for neo-paganism and occultism. Shirley McLeod and, you know, Hollywood, and there was all this craze with chandlers and all this stuff. And it's the kind of stuff that made the talk shows, you know. It's kind of become so mainstream now that no one really pays attention to it anymore. You've got folks involved in all kinds of occult practices, and, well, it's perfectly normal. Nobody really bats an eye at it.

But the battle is still the same, and the deception is still the same. And it's all the more important for God's people to recognize what might be infiltrating, the body of Christ and where the errors might be. So it's still out there. It's still reality. So the book still has something to say about that. I mean, some of it's so blatantly in front of us. It's hard to, well, I remember this thought. the middle of one of the podcasts I was doing, I just went, oh my God, am I becoming,

am I becoming a traditionalist? Like, do I want to, you know, I'm like, what a strange thought. But, you know, like, I don't want to go back in time. I know you can't do that. But some of the things we face today, I have a hard time getting my brain around. And, and, and, and, and, and an easy one is that boys can be girls, right? That, that we have allowed, uh, all this, craziness to run into women's sports or or just in general and that makes zero sense to me um you know there there's there's just so many thoughts that you're like how did this even become mainstream and i'll put it in quotes and yet when i read your book i'm like you were seeing it back then i i assume because that's exactly what you were writing about was these different ideas and how this occultism to

to use another word of yours. I mean, that's not your word, but I mean, you know what I mean. Like, it just, it's been prevalent and it's been slowly becoming to the point you don't even notice it anymore. And now to notice it, the thought I have is, oh my goodness, I'm becoming a traditionalist, which I don't even know what to say that. It's become extreme in these days to become a Christian again. I've kind of phrased it, we're living at Ephesus. you know, in the book of Acts, Paul goes to the city of Ephesus.

And if you've ever been to Ephesus, I've been there a couple times, touring for ruins and so forth. Pagan city, idols and false gods and weird practices everywhere. It's on the street building, you know, it's on the buildings, on sidewalks, on the streets, there's this temple to so-and-so, and this temple to so-and-so, and, uh, And Paul, in the church he founded, was right in the middle of all of that. And they had to live with it. They had to put up with it. They had to just preach the truth.

They had a real good revival there where folks just gathered and brought all their occult materials and their mystic books and so forth and burned them. And, of course, there was a big riot because the people, the silversmiths and so forth, we're very indignant about what Paul was doing and ruining their business. But I look at that, I think, you know, it's true.

We're basically living in Ephesus. We're living in a post-Christian, neo-pagan culture where God's whole creative order gets undermined. One thing always leads to another. It's always going somewhere. And the whole sexual revolution,

had the agenda decades ago. We're just, you know, you let it go and just follow it and just be nice and tolerated and try to be open-minded and all this business. And, hey, we're not done with that yet. There's plenty more. There's always going to be a next thing as far as that goes. And that's all because we've abandoned to God's truth

in the first place. That has a lot to do with what's in the book. the lie, the deception of Satan and his demonic powers, how they can manipulate people's minds. And when you start straying from the truth, well, you'll believe anything. And that becomes mainstream. You're no better off, though.

You're worse off. Do you think just a hypothetical, but like I don't know if this is true? So do you think over time, if you go back to, I don't know, 200 years ago, maybe longer, maybe shorter, I have no idea, that we were closer to people understanding that spiritual warfare was a real thing. And over time, I don't even know the last time I heard that term until I, you know, started like looking into it. And by not understanding that that's going on, then all of a sudden you kind of forget that there's this entire world there and you start getting into all these different things. And then, you know, if you mess around with probably five or six different things these days, you'll feel something. And you'll be like, wow, it's real and on and on this goes. But if you don't understand what spiritual warfare is, you actually miss this entire thing that's just sitting there.

And it's such an odd idea to put out there because, you know, like a year ago, I would have never said that. I wouldn't have said any of this line of thought process. Except now you've just been, well, I've been confronted with so much. Do you go that, I don't know, just over time we've forgotten it. And by forgetting it, we forget that it even exists. And it moves us closer to a time where, you know, you talk, say God's truth. We don't even, we don't know what that means anymore. We're in this world now where you can be whatever you want.

You can do whatever you want. Let's go back to the Garden of Eden. Let's just get specific here, because these things are in practice. now it's always the same thing okay Satan dresses up in his snake suit okay and he goes to and the hear of the lies he tells her the first one is you know that God cannot be trusted did God really say don't partake in the fruit of that tree he begins to cast doubt on the existence of truth so that's the first thing the idea that truth is relative. There is no objective external truth to which we are all accountable. The second

thing that Satan says is, if you either that truth, you shall be as God. And this is what lies at the heart of spiritual warfare and the whole degradation of culture and the rise of neo-paganism and atheism and relativism and humanism and all the other isms out there. is that basic sin, nature in man, he wants to be his own God. And the next thing Satan says is, you shall be as God. Able to judge for yourself what is good and what is evil. So in other words, truth is all relative. You can believe whatever you want, and you can be your own God,

and you can also make up your own mind what's right and what's wrong. What's right for you, maybe right for you, but it might be wrong for me. I can believe whatever I want. You can believe whatever you want. That's called tolerance. That's called diversity. That's called inclusion. All these are key words down underneath.

You see, on the surface, they sound good. A lot of it is good. But that's the point down underneath are these basic lies aimed against our relationship with God. The idea, well, there is no truth. Therefore, God can't be speaking the truth because, well, how do you? you even know who God is? How do you even know that the Bible is true? How do you even know anything? And how can you even challenge what anybody else says? And so on. And you've got, well, I can be my own God. I can be reincarnated. I can evolve upward. I can meditate my way into some

kind of cosmic consciousness and reconnect with the deity that I have inside. You've got Christians going to yoga class and going namaste to each other, which is actually the salutation of the God within, you know, the God that you are. And these things sneak in. You know, what's amazing is, oh, I think in the book, yes, in the book in this present darkness, one of the characters actually is taught how to enter an altered state of consciousness and contact the spirit guide. And the spirit guide is actually a masquerading demon that deceives her and is about to destroy her. It's really interesting. You can look this up, I think.

Tim Remington, I'll use his name. He's a good friend of mine. Pastor here in the Cornelaine, Idaho area, was shot six times in the parking lot of his church by some nutcase, you know. And there's a big long story about it, but the guy that shot him actually wrote a manifesto. In the manifesto, we talked about how he got involved. in transcendental meditation.

And while he was meditating, he contacted the spirit guide. And the spirit guide began to follow him around and teach him things and deceive him into thinking that we were being invaded by Martians. He had to go and kill all the Martians. And he thought Tim Remington was one of the Martians. And I think to myself, good, leave. I wrote this book based on research and so forth. Like here's where in a big, literal way it really happened.

somebody contacted a demonic spirit and ended up shooting somebody there are realities here that play the same way well let's see let's go on another one that Satan said okay let's review him again he said truth is relative you shall be as God you can judge for yourself what's right what's wrong another one is that there is no death that's the whole idea of reincarnation and karma that The Bible says at the point of the man wants to die. And after that, he's accountable when he's judged. The way to escape that and become your own God is to continually be reincarnated.

There is no death or is only being recycled. And you're going to find all kinds of different concepts of what it means to die. Some people say, well, we're just going to go look at, you know, go through that tunnel toward the light, and we're all going to end up in some higher state. together, some are going to be reincarnated, some are going to totally re-merge with the great cosmic nothingness and all of our atoms and molecules will become stars. And they've got some weird, it's fascinating. I was talking to a man some time ago who just rejected the Bible and didn't believe any of

that stuff. And I got involved in this discussion with him and we went off track. What I should have asked you is, hey, okay, you don't believe. the Bible, you don't believe in truth, you don't believe, da, da, da, da, da. How do you know? What objective external basis do you have for knowing what is to become of you? You have all kinds of theories out there and all kinds of little beliefs, oh, this is what I'm going to happen when I die or don't die or whatever. The point is to escape any sense of accountability. We're never going to be judged. We're never going to be held accountable

because there is no truth. There's no right or wrong. We're all God ourselves, and we don't have to worry about dying. See, these lies take different forms in different movements, in different books, and different claims, but they're always the same. They're always the same. Another interesting lie is all is one. You see that a lot in Eastern mysticism,

where there's no real separation between you and everything else. You and the tree, the earth and the sky, they're all one. You had a little bit of that in Star Wars with Yoda, you know, teaching Luke Skywalker about the force. You know, the force is all around you,

in the rocks, in the trees, all around, you know, just everything is all unified and what do you tap into this force? Interesting that there's this force out there, but who is the moral agent who controls the force? Luke Skywalker. He's the real God that formula, which

really presents an interesting moral question because Darth Vader is also the moral agent who controls the force. So now the whole Star Wars series is taking place in a moral vacuum where the force is indifferent and supplies forced energy to the evil and the good, the light, and the dark. There's actually no difference between the two. So all is one, the whole idea that there's no real distinguishing between you and anybody else between you and God.

Because everything is God, it's pantheism. So anyway, all this stuff I'm saying is to point out to you that there are basic belief systems, basic lies that Satan first told, to put back at the beginning, that continues to play out through our culture in different. ways and that's one reason that the book still seems so apropos because it still addresses the same basic patterns of deception. So we are. Well, there you are. A great, great impersonation of Yoda. That's fantastic. I didn't realize that was in your scroll repertoire. But, you know, overall, Frank, I just, I appreciate you laying it out that way. I don't know. I'm so new to this. this this conversation it's hard for me to just enter in except i come back to ottawa i just you know and and and the things that were going on in

ottawa were beyond strange beyond strange just like what is happening right now and you know there's times in the book where i'm sure people read it and we're like oh yeah that's that's kind of a weird thought except parts of it i've lived out i've just like lived out i'm like i know that literally was going and that that that's strange that that right there was strange and once you've experienced things like that and a ton of listeners you know when you come back from a place like oh everybody want what would happen what went on and I'm like oh it's kind of hard to explain and then the more I talk about it they're talking about spiritual warfare I'm like well why does why isn't this why isn't this more commonplace why

aren't more well because they'll deem you crazy team me crazy I'm like I feel crazy not talking about it like where where is the the realm of people talk about it and then I stumble onto your book and you know I'm rehashing the same story over and over again folks and I apologize but it is happening it's just been silenced or moved or whatever way you want so that the the main group of people moving forward in today's modern world and all of its benefits and it's such a great place to live and all these different things are missing one of the key points of life you know that there is a god that you can read a book and pray and do these things and get close to them and they're they're sold this other bill of goods and you know i sound like i'm on the i'm on the

pulpit here preaching i just i to each their own but my life from where i've gone from the last year and a half it just brings me back to everything you're talking about with the new because listen when i when i got when i was there shamans um tarot cards first nation stuff and i don't i don't I don't begin to understand at all, just that it is there. And when I, when I, when I, when I, when I, when I, when I, when I, when I, when I, when I, when I, when I, when I, when I, it's the most, it's the most confusing thing I've ever seen in my life. Right. Like, what the heck is going on? Like, what is it? People beside you are not losing their mind, but are doing strange things. make no sense.

And when you talk about the big lies from the beginning, I guess I just like, I feel like it adds in a piece where you're like, I can actually understand how it gets to where we are. Yeah, that's about it. It all derives from the same basic tenets. You know, the Native American stuff, the Hindu stuff,

and the Buddhism derived from the Hindu stuff, Judaism derived from the Hindu stuff, and it all boils down to basically the same thing. Are we got, well, like, between theism and pantheism, theism basically says that God exists separate from his creation. That's kind of laid out in John 316, that classic salvation verse for God so loved the world. We'll see that verse presupposes that God is separate from his creation. Here's God, here's the world. God love the world and therefore he sent his son to redeem the world from its sin. In pantheism, God is the world and the world is God. And in some way or another, it's all

continuous. Oh, that's, well, just as a side-bizabeth, just as a side-bizabeth, probably in the Eastern view of time it's circular. It goes around and around and around. In the biblical view of time, it's linear. It has a beginning and it has an end. It goes this way. And then you have eternity at the end. But the circular view of time affects culture to the point that people don't see things beginning or ending. And the irony of that is the cycle of karma and reincarnation. You reincarnate, reincarnate, reincarnate, and reincarate, and you go around this circle. And I think, according to Hinduism, if I don't have the numbers wrong, I probably do. Like every 4.6 billion years or something like that, the whole cycle picks up all over again.

and everything starts to evolve upward from a starting point. So you might evolve, evolve, evolve, and reocardate all the way up to becoming God, but then at the end, you go down to some small organism and start all over again. So what I'm going to is the futility of it. It's a way to escape accountability to God. Do you really say that? do you really have to obey what God says? You can be God yourself.

You could decide what's right and wrong. God doesn't have to tell you that. And you see, and that's the spirit that eventually leads to, the sexual revolution, because sexual revolution begins with undermining the family, sex outside of marriage. You know, that's the way, back in the 60s, that's where we went. the sexual revolution where it began

where back there was, well, you don't have to be married or have a marriage relationship to have sex. You can just shack around. Well, there's plenty of people just in human nature that wanted to do that anyway, and we're doing it, but it became a cultural

thing, actually became accepted. And then from there you had living together without being married. Well, that's okay. Well, then what else is okay? Well, we don't want to be too judgmental, well, you know, if you're homosexual, then you should be able to be homosexual. Well, that's okay. Well, then how come homosexuals can't get married? Well, then we should have

gay married. Well, then after that, well, you can't really discriminate one sex from another. Well, then did God really say? In the beginning, God created the male and female. No, he didn't say that. There is no male. There is no female. There's whatever we want because we're gods. We can decide for ourselves what's true and what's right and what's wrong. And the chaos, you see, today is because of these initial lies that we bought into. And it's easy to just start like I'm doing, just shotguning, you know, just scatter gutting. Because it just brings up so many examples and ideas, things that are going on, but it all derives from the basic four or five.

live lies that Satan's darling with. They're still around, they still have the same fact. I've appreciated you doing this, and if you'll give me a few more minutes, I'm going to ask one other question of you, but we'll switch over to substack. I appreciate

man, it's been a real treat, I guess, for the audience. This has been something I've talked about an awful lot, Frank. So for you to hop on and give me an hour of your time, I really do appreciate that. And if you'll bear with me, we'll switch over to Substack. And I got one final question for you.

And if the audience wants to come, it'll be over on Substack. So we'll take a brief pause here.