Shaun Newman Podcast - #597 - Melissa McKee

Episode Date: March 7, 2024

She is the co-pastor of the Bikers Church in Ottawa. We discuss her journey to the church, broken people, the freedom convoy and mandates.  SNP Presents returns April 27th Tickets Below:https://www.showpass.com/cornerstone/ Let me know what you think. Text me 587-217-8500 Substack:https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcastE-transfer here: [e-mail] Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/ Email: [e-mail] Phone [phone] – general sales line, ask for Grahame and be sure to let us know you’re an SNP listener.

This is Alex Krenner. This is Dave Collum. This is Bruce Party. Hi, this is Jeremy McKenzie, the raging dissonant. Hello, this is Maxim Bernier. This is Danny Beaufort. This is Chuck Prodnick. This is Vance Crow, and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast.

Welcome to the podcast, folks. Happy Thursday. How's everybody doing? I've been talking a lot about this. There's a special offer just for you. That's right. Silver Gold Bowl is offering a special feature price on everyone's favorite silver coin. If you've never bought, then it's ever.

else's favorite coin. The Royal Canadian Mint Silver Maple Leaf. The offer is not available on their site, so you won't find it there. You won't find it anywhere else. It's only open for us. That's right. You're part of the team. And all you got to do is call or email Graham. So go down on the show notes. It's all sitting there. If you've never ordered anything from off a Silver Gold Bull, well, maybe now's the time. Or maybe now's the time, just calling. Ask a few questions and find out, see what's going on. Silvergoldbull.com.ca is where you can see everything. But for this special feature, the Royal Canadian Mint Silver Maple Leaf you gotta give them an email or a call

show notes has all the information and well go take a look see what you think McGowan professional chartered accountants that's Kristen and team they're looking to hire they're looking for a CPA the only way they get to expand

and deal with more of you wonderful people is by finding somebody who is looking for an opportunity possibly a partnership hey you never know if you believe in supporting free speech in certain conversations Hey, just saying, Kristen's all about that.

She is a superstar, her team over there. Fantastic. Of course, they offer accounting, bookkeeping, business consulting, training, and financial planning and tax planning. For more information, go to McGowanCPA.ca.ca. Okay, SMP Presents is returning. I've been saying this now for the last week. It is returning on April 27th.

That's a Saturday. It's a full day. It's a conference. event and you know I'm rather excited about it I gotta be honest you know I've you know

okay I've been getting a couple questions about Cornerstone are you a Mason I'm not a Mason folks actually that didn't even dawn on my brain I like this I like two things about it okay Cornerstone is traditionally the first stone laid for a structure with all the stones laid in that reference I'm like ooh I like that

and you know then there's then there's a the Bible, okay? Ephesians, and me and Ephesians have been getting along quite well lately. Two, 20 to 22, together we are his house, built on the foundation of the apostles and the prophets,

and the cornerstone is Christ Jesus himself. Do I need to say anymore? That's why it's Cornerstone, okay? You're going to have Luongo Criner, Chris Sims, Chuck Prodnick, Martin Armstrong virtually, and Curtis Stone. I think it's going to be a fun day. I hope to see you there. If you're looking for more details,

go down in the show notes, There's a link there. We'll love to see you there. Hope to see you there. We're going to see you there. Click the button, folks. Click the button. April 27th.

It's going to be a ton of fun here in Lloyd Minster. All right. Let's get on to that tale of the tape. She's the co-pastor of the Bikers Church out in Ottawa. I'm talking about Melissa McKee. So buckle up. Here we go. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast.

Today I'm joined by Melissa McKee. So, ma'am, thanks for, hopping on. Thanks for having. No, women, it's funny. I guess I got, like, I, I, I, I, I, I see ma'am as a sign of respect, no different one, sir, you know, but it's funny. All women are like, ma'am, oh, oh, okay, and I'm like, and I, and I don't mean it

that way at all. I, you know, I, I, I, I'm 49, it is what it is. Well, I don't think that's that old, you know, I got tons of people, you know, I make a joke every once while about 60 and then the way the text line lights up, Melissa, about you know, I'm 60 and I'm feeling pretty good. I'm like, fair enough, fair enough. I'm going to stop making jokes about age. Now, we could talk about age and ma'am all the time.

You come across my plate multiple different times because I keep having guests or friends and the Biker's Church just, it just seems to be around my periphery. And I thought about reaching out like, I don't know, maybe a year ago, and then I don't know, I didn't. And, you know, and then Danny Bulford comes in studio. and then he talks about it all over again. And I'm like, you know, it's just, it's meant to be, I think.

So tell me a little bit about Melissa, yourself, and we'll see where we get to. Okay. I was born and raised in Ottawa. Actually, right here where the church is, it's called Vanyet. And it's kind of looked at like the armpit of Ottawa. It's a pretty low-income neighborhood. There's lots of diversity here. prostitutes on every corner, crack houses all around.

This is where I grew up. It wasn't that bad when I was a kid, but it got to be that way. So I grew up here, went to school here. I have one sister and a brother that has passed. He's older than I am. I'm from a really musical family. I love music, love instruments singing. That's been a big part of my life.

I've been married to Rob for we're coming up on 27 years in May we have three kids I went to school to be a child and youth worker I wanted to work with troubled kids I do they're just big kids and so we've been here at Bikers Church

for the last eight years okay you grew up there all your life you said as a kid it wasn't that way and now you have prostitutes, crack houses, etc., etc., etc. I assume you've thought about it,

or maybe you've seen it happen in front of eyes. What changed? When you think about it, what happened over the course of your life that that just became commonplace? Honestly, I think we've removed God.

This is the filter through which I see things, my biblical worldview. So I make no apologies for that. But, yeah, I think that we've removed God from a lot of things and it's been to our detriment. I think there's lack of discipline. We don't enforce laws.

We let people get away with things. I mean, we're seeing that a lot with a lot of things now is people just are allowed to do whatever they want. You can live your truth, whatever that is, and do whatever makes you feel good. And I think that gets us in trouble. And I think that's why we are where we are because nobody wants to say no.

Well, that's well put. I mean, I would have to agree, you know, it's taking me a long old road, Melissa, to get to that, that, those, those thoughts, you know, because in the middle of COVID, I think, I can't speak for you and I would love to hear your thoughts, you know, in the middle of COVID, I was probably one of the many going, what is going on? And in Ottawa, I had those same thoughts. I was like, what is going on here? But, you know, this whole you can be whatever you want to be and live by your truth mentality has gotten us into really, really, really, really can't put enough reallyies behind it, strange times. Yeah, I think it has. And that's offensive to a lot of people, you know, that you can't live your truth. And I actually just had a conversation with a guy, Jim Kerr, he's known as Papa Bubble. in this, like, freedom thing. He's a pretty awesome guy.

We had a big conversation. He was here last weekend. And I actually, we had that conversation that it's not about living your truth. It's about living the truth. Because, I mean, we're seeing what people's own truth is, you know, women wanting to become men, men wanting to become women. It's not even, it's not plausible and it's not possible. It's dysphoria. And we're applauding it.

Well, I don't put me in there, but they are applauding it. So, yeah. Boy, we just jumped right in here, A Sean. I don't know any other way, Melissa. I apologize if I'm going a little. To me, yeah, it's, it's, you know, as a young guy, when I was playing hockey, I went out to Ontario, drying Ontario. I don't know if Ontario don't think that's Ontario, to be honest.

Like, I mean, it's up on the northwest. And that's right. And, you know, I talk a lot about Larry Wintoniac because he was a coach of mine, and he had old school mentality, extreme structure, like, you know, and rules. And if he didn't buy by the rules, there was consequences. And I think there was a group of us, there certainly there's kids that hated that, but I needed it. Like I really, really needed it. And it was like one of those kind of focal or, you know, pivotal moments in a kid's life or in a person's life where you maybe could have went this way and instead you did a hard right turn and you went the opposite way.

And, you know, you look at society right now. and we could like we all need a little bit of structure like kids don't survive well just being like hey go do what you want to do you want to do that you want to be that make zero sense but uh you know you go hard and see what happens and we'll applaud you for it because you're right the applaud for it you know is is beyond strange it is yeah I mean if if my kid came to me with you know and said I'm mom I'm anorexic I'm really you know I want to be I want to be thinner I'm not thin enough I wouldn't say oh honey let's you know what I'm going to get rid of all the food in the house then let's help you along in this no that's a heart issue like there's

something going on in the heart that needs to be addressed and so we're not doing that we are we want to make people feel good about themselves. And my husband's preaching this really amazing sermon right now. And, you know, God's not concerned about your happiness. That might be shocking to some people, but being happy is not where it's at, having joy. Joy and happiness are different things. And I think this world has that confused,

because not everything that makes me happy is good for me. And so, and I can also have joy, no matter what's happening in my life, no matter what storm is raging around me, I can have joy. It doesn't mean I'm happy with the circumstances because happiness is circumstantial. You know, like, oh, if I could just become a, I could just turn myself into a man, I'd be happy. And then we're seeing people taking the steps to do that. And the suicide rate among the trans community is through the roof. because that's actually not fixing the problem that they're having, which is a heart issue. So I'm a big believer in, you know, any addict that's using drugs or alcohol or sex or porn.

People try to fill this space that they have. They try and fix hurts. They try and ignore trauma. And we're seeing the result of nobody saying, no, that's not the problem. the way. We're not letting men into women's washrooms and we're not letting you play women's sports and we're not letting you get away with this. It's a very controversial statements, I know. Oh, they're welcomed here. The other thing, you know, you mentioned drug addicts. I was getting a tag onto that is maybe safe supply isn't a great idea. You know, the encouragement of,

well, it'll be safer for you to have safe supply. You mentioned joy. Could you you explain that a little bit more to me. I find that a fascinating thought. I agree with the happiness thing. Completely understand it. But I don't know if I've ever explored the term or the thought of joy. Okay. So joy is actually a fruit of the spirit. It's one of the things that are named in the Bible being the fruit of the spirit. And so you've got love, peace, patience, joy, kindness, gentleness, goodness, faithfulness and self-control. Those are fruit the spirit and if someone claims to be a follower of Jesus there should be evidence in their life and that's the fruit right like if you you see a fruit tree it if it has good fruit on it the fruit is

healthy it's supple it's growing you know um it's got a you know it's got a good root system it's being nourished properly it's getting enough sun the soil is good and so you can judge any tree by its fruit so one of those fruit is joy and so as a believer a follower of Christ, there should be joy in my life no matter what's going on around us. So, you know, my husband's a cancer survivor. He was diagnosed at 29 with leukemia, and there's no cancer in his family. It was an anomaly. They couldn't figure out why he was 29. He was a super athlete, played semi-pro football until he was in his 30s. He was just hit broadsided by this and you know that that takes you for to i felt like i was literally hit by a

truck when the doctor came in and said it was cancer and of course you know you you got to find your footing but that storm that we walked through i had joy still because it wasn't about my circumstances but who i'm anchored to so i i've said that and there has have been people quote me and I think actually maybe Danny Bulford quoted at the end there, it brought me to tears and I have my Kleenex beside me because I'm a big crier. But like I said, the government's not responsible for my joy. They can lock me in prison. They can take away whatever they want. I think like my best, not just defense, but my best, what's the word I'm looking for. Like my best, the best thing I could do is to have joy when you want me to be

miserable. When you've locked me down, when you've put a mask on my face, you're trying to force something into my body I don't want. You've taken away my ability to have church, to be with friends, to be with family, you've destroyed my family. I still have joy. It's like the best thing I could do to them. You can't take it. You can't have it. And you're not, responsible for it, so that's why they can't take it. So through all of this, and I mean, we've been, we've been pretty pressed around here for, you know, as far as churches go, we were one of the only ones in the area that stood up against this. And I mean, it wasn't like, pardon me, it wasn't a big like FU to the government. But we had people here that were

broken and hurting over more things than just COVID that had enough. 99% survival rate. So we weighed at all and we decided we're keeping our doors open. And so we've been walking people through this where everything around them is falling apart. Everything's being taken away, being changed. People are losing their jobs, their livelihoods, their savings, relationships, marriages. You know, people are falling off the addiction wagon. we've been walking them through this, trying to help them keep their joy because it's not dictated by circumstance.

So it's been one of the most important things, I think, as pastors through this. You know, when you talk about people who are broken and, I don't know, losing things, losing everything, you know, all the different fights that come into the family that have come in in the family. There's a ton of people that don't have to have such,

you know, I just think of myself, right? You don't have to have the, I don't know, see if I can spit this out and make it make sense, Melissa. You know, a lot of us look at like the drug addicts and or, I don't know, the prostitute, you know, I'm picking on two of the things you said earlier that are on, you know, the streets around you and think, oh, they're the broken people.

But the thing about COVID that just, and even now with different issues we face, until I started reading the Bible, I was one of the broken people, but just not in the way that you would notice from the outside. I hope that makes sense. Right? I was so confused at what is going on. Like, how can we argue? Like, how can people I respect argue?

that there are more than two gender. It makes zero sense. And the more it made, and the thing is, is standing up to the COVID stuff is what exposed it. Because then you just started to see, like, it just, it's just lies everywhere.

It's just ineptitude everywhere. And then the more you stare at it, the more you see it, the more you're like, contemplate everything, right? You're just like, this doesn't make sense anymore. Like I'm trying to make it make sense, but I can't even explain my frustration. because it's like I've never had to go against something that's just everywhere, you know.

It's just reinforced everywhere. It's mental gymnastics all over. Yes. And if you've never done mental gymnastics before, it's really like hard to like try and get your brain to tick, you know. And then and then it's funny, you know, somewhere along the road, you know, I stumble into the Bible, right? Start reading that and it didn't click right away. And then, you know, then I'm more I started reading it, the more it started to click. The more it starts to click, you're like, oh, my God, right?

How is it that I have, my mother has been praying for me all these years and has given me a Bible probably every Christmas for, for 35 years. I'm being tongue in cheek, mom, because I know you're probably listening. But, you know, like, and I'm just, yep, there it is, paperweight, paperweight, paperweight, paperweight, roll your eyes, paperweight. And then you actually pick, pick it up and start reading the thing. And you're like, oh, that actually makes sense. And it's funny when you have something makes sense, it's like clarity. It's clarity to the entire situation.

And I guess my long little thing here, Melissa, is like when I hear broken people, I'm like, it isn't just the one that visibly you can see. It's so much more than that because there's so many people wrestling with this mental gymnastics of like what is actually going on right now. Yeah, brokenness can come to you in a three-piece suit. Doesn't mean you're any less broken than the prostitute that just stumbled in after turning a trick that needs cleaning up, which happens here all the time. So there's different, you know, degrees of brokenness. There's different reasons for the brokenness.

People handle it differently. So, I mean, that's what church is. You know, a lot of people say, I'll never go to church. It's full of hypocrites. Well, I hope so. I hope that this place is full of broken, messy people all the time because that's who Jesus came for. He said, I came for the loss, the sick, the broken. Not the ones who think, you know, the Pharisees, they had no need for him because they were so pious.

They had it all together. And so how do you help someone like that that thinks they don't need help? That thinks they're not broken. And the guy that's like, man, I'm a mess. My life is a disaster. Like, give me that. I'll scoop that up and I can work with it all day long. So, and that's what we do here.

This is, well, you'll have to come here one day, but this is messy church. This is like roll your sleeves up and get into people's messes kind of church. And where Rob and I come from? It was a great church, but, you know, it was like out in the suburbs. It was pretty affluent. There definitely were broken people there. It was maybe a more manageable kind of brokenness. I mean, you know, we've literally got people knocking at our doors,

you know, prostitutes with black eyes and fat lips who just got beat by their pimp or a john and they need help cleaning up and they need new clothes. And, you know, we had a guy on the back side. step one day that blew his face off lighting his crack pipe with a butane canister. And, you know, we helped, like, take his shirt full of pus off. And I fed him breakfast because he lost an arm. And he couldn't eat. And so, like, I made him a bowl of oatmeal and I fed him breakfast on the back step. And, I mean, like, there's things here that actually can mess you up. But this is the kind of church. I mean, you could never put me back into like a suburban church where this is not

messy. And this is like real ministry. And it, we were thriving in this. And so, you know, this is a good segue into like, why did we keep our doors open? It's because of people that had a face in the name. You know, we had a guy named Shannon. I've told this story on many, many podcasts, but he was a guy that struggled with the crack addiction that was killing him. And he had 18 months clean. And he texted me one day during the lockdowns and said, Melissa, I got to be in church today. Please, can I be one of the people that comes to church today?

I don't want to fall. I don't want to stumble. Please, can I be in church? And so I showed my phone to Rob, and I said, what are we doing? this like he said tell him there's room for one more and so that just kind of became our anthem there's room for one more and so you know during the lockdowns we we were allowed to have 10 people in this massive building and by the time you know we were here the pastoral staff the the media team that was it there was no room for anyone else and rob just kept saying tell them me

there's room for one more. You know, we had a veteran that suffers from some of the worst PTSD I've ever seen. He couldn't put a mask on his face. I was not about to tell him in order to come to a big empty church that he had to put a mask on his face. I wasn't doing it because he's suicidal every single day. And if he was willing to come to church, I was going to let him, no matter how that happened. So, you know, people were coming at us, like, how could you disobey the government? You shouldn't call yourself Christians. You're being terrible examples of pastors. And I'm like, well, Shannon is still alive. And this veteran here, he's still alive and he's still coming to church. And, you know, and you just go down the line of all the faces and the names of real people who are

having real issues that their lives are being saved. Because, you know, and you just go down the line of all the faces of because they were able to come to church. So, I mean, we're not sorry for anything that we've done. Maybe that I just didn't do it harder and faster and sooner. Yeah, nor should you be. I mean, you know, I've been wrestling with a question, and what better person than Melissa to maybe give me her thoughts on it? and that is, you know, in coming to reading the Bible and becoming, I assume, you know, I don't know, an act of Christian, I guess, I struggle with the church.

And I struggle with the church because of why they harassed you, right? I struggle with that a lot. Like, I don't know if I'm willing to go back into an institution. Like, I don't know. I don't know if I'm willing to go back into an institution. Like, I don't know. And so I go, why is it, why is it going to church so important? Well, it's biblical, actually. It says don't forget the gathering of the saints. We're part of a body, you know. All the different parts of the body do different things, and we need them all.

I mean, I can't function without an eye or a hand or a foot. I need all the parts of the body. So I'll tell you, I, I won't go to a restaurant or, like, we live very different lives now than we did before. You know, Rob's an avid sports fan. I love music. We'd go to concerts and sporting events and, you know, restaurants. We're foodies.

We love restaurants. I will not give my money to anyone who implemented VAC's passports. Anybody who was asking for papers, I won't. do it. So I think in the last like three years we've maybe been to three restaurants. One of them we had to go to a birthday party, but I didn't eat because I'm not giving my money to people who were complicit in what I feel is some of the greatest evil that we've ever seen. So you find a church that aligns with your values, one that stood up, one that didn't take part in all of the things.

And this is also not popular, but I mean, obviously I've asked myself, why were we the only ones? Not the only ones, but some, you know, were very few, and you could count us probably on two hands. Why were we the only ones that stood up? I mean, I've got tons of friends in the city who are pastors. And I do understand, because I had a conversation with one, of them and he happens to pastor a congregation of mostly elderly people who watch c tv and cbc every single

night who were terrified of covid they they needed to mask up they needed to have the hand sanitizer they needed to be two rows apart they they needed all that so i mean i think that it's there's an easy answer to that and that's you you find find a church that that aligns with your values that stood up, that were brave and courageous enough to say I'm not complying with those mandates. They're not biblical. So Danny Bulford, we'll talk about him for a sec. Not that I'm the boss of this interview, but...

You certainly are. You take it wherever you prefer. So Danny called me. he got my number from someone and he called me about something and we started chatting. I had no idea who he was. And, you know, so after like kind of feeling each other out for where you stand on this kind of thing, and this is like right at the beginning, he says to me, are you for freedom? And I said, you're darn right, I'm for freedom.

And he goes, oh, okay, well, I'm the de facto spokesman for the, you know, Mounties for freedom. And so I was like, oh, that's nice. You know, I'm not a cop. I don't, so I'm not following that particularly, but I kind of heard about it, you know, and again, this is right at the beginning. So these groups are just starting to form. And so I hang up the phone. We finish our conversation. And I open, you know, Facebook the next day. And the very first video is Corporal Daniel Bulford giving this address in Niagara in his cream sweater. And I'm like, that's the guy that called me yesterday what oh my gosh like just seeing him you know kind of do his thing I felt like the Lord instantly gave me like a prophetic word for him and he said he told me

to look up his name and so I looked up his name and it mean Daniel means God is my judge and so I said I texted Danny and said like you know I just this might sound crazy to you I don't know where you are with God or whatever, but I'm super unapologetic about my faith, and I hear God. Like I talk to him. I know my father's voice. I know when he's speaking to me. I have a prophetic gift in my life, and so I operate in that.

And so I said to Danny, like, God just gave me this word for you. And I just like I feel like you need to know that God is your judge. You answer to a higher authority than the government of Canada than Justin Trudeau. And that actually rang true for us, is that these mandates were not lawful biblically. And so we did not feel compelled to obey them. But, you know, we're law-abiding citizens. We obey the laws of the land. We pay our taxes.

We're good neighbors. We treat other people, you know, the way we want to be treated. We live that kind of life. I am ungovernable, but I can submit to authority. So I think a lot of people got that line kind of mixed up where they thought that they had to comply in order to be considered a good Christian, a good follower of Jesus. Now, I'm saying I'm following Jesus.

I'm not following a government. So, and I mean, we can look back in history, and I think that that's where lots of people got in trouble is because they obeyed the government. Because since COVID, like, and, you know, people have rolled their eyes at me, like, here she goes again, like conspiracy theorist, and that's okay, it's okay. You know, my husband tried to tell me,

and I hope this doesn't get you canceled off any platforms, but he tried to tell me that 9-11 was an inside job. And I was like, no, like, absolutely not. There's no way. I can't even wrap my mind around, like, doing that to our own people. There's no way. It's not even possible. And then COVID hit.

And I was like, oh, my gosh, just by myself one day, 9-11 was a friggin' inside job. And it was like the veil was lifted, and I saw all the things clear as day. And so I just, I had read this book during COVID, actually. I read it in high school as a teenager. It's by Quarry Ten Boom. She was a Holocaust survivor, and her family was put into a concentration camp, and she was the lone survivor of her whole family.

They ran a watch shop in Holland, and they hid Jews in their home, and they were found out, somebody turned them in. And I read that book during COVID, and I actually prayed, and I said, God, if I ever have an opportunity to be like Quarry Ten Boom, I want to be, I want to be someone who would have been willing to hide the Jews because it was the right thing to do. So, like, apply that to whatever the situation is. I want to be the girl who's willing, like, to be in the Guleg and be the last one standing. And, I mean, I think we all wonder, like, what would have been like, you know, when slavery was around? Would I have gone along with it? When Jesus was being crucified, would I've gone along with it? When the Jews were being rounded up, would I've gone along with it?

And I feel like I have my answer now about myself. I feel like I know exactly what I would have done. So. And outloses a joy. And still have joy. But you know, you're hitting me, you know, for the folks listening, you know, to start the day off, I was 15 minutes late for this interview. So normally I come in and I got my mind is just set.

Okay, here we go. Instead, you, you, you, maybe this is, this is probably the way it was supposed to be, right? and I truckle of where my brain's going because I'm listening to you and I'm going, I want to ask you about marriage. I don't know what you, you know, I should be talking to about convoy, Ottawa,

Bikers Church. And I'm like, you know what? We're just going to embrace this. We're just going to roll with it. I've been wondering about this question. And I've been asking lots of couples about it because, um,

um, um, for the listener, this is the first time I ever talked to Melissa. So, uh, um, you know, the audience knows where I stand on marriage and community and, you know,

basically telling the truth and trying to put your best foot forward. I'm a huge believer in, you know, you know, judge a tree by the fruit of bears. And one of the things I've been wrestling with in my brain is, you know, so you're married. And if I extrapolate out a healthy marriage, but I look into the future, you know, it doesn't matter, 10 years, 20 years, for you guys, It was at age 29 and your husband getting diagnosed with leukemia. I go, how do you prepare for the storms that, oh, for sure, are coming? Now, COVID may have been not only a tsunami, it might have been that rogue wave that just caught us all on the, you know, the side and, you know, send you for a tumble. How do you prepare for what you know is to come?

Like, there are tough days ahead for all of us. And as a society, we could be great. But we're all going to lose a loved one. We're all going to have things come into our lives that we have, well, there's no way to control everything that happens in the world. How does a couple, how do you and your husband prepare for the storms that lay ahead? I feel like that's a really easy answer. It's one word.

anchored. I am anchored to the rock. Jesus Christ. So, you know, we've built our foundation on the solid rock. And so that doesn't change. God doesn't change yesterday, today, forever. He is the same. He's a covenant keeping God. And so whatever comes our way. And I mean, we've had, you know, we, Rob had cancer. He almost died. They gave him a year to live. They told us we wouldn't have any more kids. We had more kids. You know, we lost his mom to cancer a couple years later. You know, we lost a baby in the midst of that. Our life hasn't been like amazing, awesome, perfect. There have been a lot of storms in our lives. Even coming to this church was like it swayed us, leaving our really, nice, affluent church and coming to this really broken place. That was a really hard thing for us. It was a hard thing for our whole family. And it doesn't matter what the storm is. If I'm anchored, I mean, you literally think about a ship being anchored, the storm can come, but I am going to remain. I'm going to remain. So, I mean, Rob and I, you know, we've been believers for most of our

our lives. We met God as teenagers. We met in the church and youth group. And we dated, we've been dating since I was 18 and got married at I was 22. He was 26. And so we've built a life where there are just three of us, you know, it's God and Rob and I. And so that makes, like, the Bible talks about a three strand cord being strong. It's not easily broken because there are three of us in this. And so where I fall short, where he falls short, you know, God kind of picks up our slack. And so we're anchored in Christ, which again is where joy comes from. You know, it's not of this world.

And so, you know, sometimes when I talk about this, I think, I'm talking about a God that nobody can see. that you can't, you know, there's no likeness of him. And, you know, there's a reason for that because idol worship, which I think COVID is all tied into, but that's another story. So we're anchored to this unseen God. But boy, do I feel him in my life. Boy, can I look back on, you know, 35 years as a believer and see God like showing up for me all over the place.

and like providing for me, rescuing me, even like taking me out of Vanya, out of here, and bringing me over, you know, to the church that we grew up in, kind of preparing me to send me back in. Because this is not for the faint of heart here. You know, we're on the front lines of ministry, and again, it's messy. You know, we've got a lot of addicts here. We've got a lot of alcoholics. We've got a lot of broken marriages.

We've got a lot of people that are never been secure financially who dropped out of high school that don't have secure jobs. They struggle with mental health issues. And I mean, I say mental health. I use that term very loosely because I think it's become a horrible label for spiritual things that need to come under the authority of Christ. and then there would be freedom. So, yeah, you know, we're anchored. So preparing, like, I would prepare for the times that are coming in, you know, stocking up on food, having batteries in my flashlight, you know, some extra fuel. But I could, I would drive myself crazy if I tried to prepare for every storm that would come my way in this life, you know. So it doesn't matter if it's a death.

if it's you know relationships breaking down if it's a loss of a job if it's my kids struggling I'm anchored yeah there's a level of peace that comes with with what you're talking about and if you know when you're talking about you can't can't see it and you can't it's hard to kind to kind of explain a formalist yeah I get where you're you're you're you're you're you're you're laying down. You know, you've, you've kind of, I don't mean danced around it, but I am really curious now,

how do you get to the Bikers Church? Because, you know, when you talk about it, you're in a, before the Bikers Church, you're in a fluent neighborhood. You know, I'm putting my own thoughts on it and you can just put holes all over it. But you're in a neighborhood. You're, you know, I assume successful.

and, you know, I think, you know, when most people look at life, you go, hey, we're doing great. This is great. So why do you go into the messiness of the Bikers Church? And before we, before you go into the story of it, is it actually called the Bikers Church or is that its nickname? No, it's actually called the Bikers Church. But let me just give you the story really quickly. So the church that Rob and I come from, it started a church. Like we call it a daughter church.

Okay, you plant a church. They planted a church in the downtown core of Ottawa, like where the bars were, right downtown because we wanted to offer an alternative to the bar scene. And so we were on a Saturday night service and it was so successful. And we were a team of young like 20 somethings, you know, kind of on the cut. edge of ministry. We had a great worship team. It was like the happening place to be as far as churches go here in Ottawa. This is, you know, 25 years ago. And so we helped plant that church from the big church, I'll call it. And very quickly, we outgrew the little church we were renting. And so we

needed to find a place to call our own. We were setting up and tearing down every night and it was a lot. And so we found this building that we're in in 2000. And we bought it from the Catholic Diocese. It was a deconsecrated Catholic Church. It had the congregation had kind of died off and they were trying to unload it. It's a very, very big building. I don't even know how many square feet it is, but it's got a mance attached to it, like the house where the priest would have lived.

So it's really massive. It has a huge footprint. we take up the whole end of a city block. So we have three addresses where you can come into the church. And so we bought this. And right at that time, Rob got a job in Toronto. Because we were both working full-time jobs and doing ministry on top of it. And so he got this dream job in Toronto, which we were super excited about.

But that meant leaving, you know, leaving him. here and leaving all this exciting stuff that was just happening. We go off to Toronto. He's diagnosed with leukemia three months later and we end up coming back to Ottawa, but we didn't come back to this church. We went back to the big church because they actually said that they could have a job waiting for him, you know, if he survived cancer kind of thing. Well, they didn't say if he survived. They had faith that he would, but, you know, they said long-term goals, we can hire you. And so that's what we did. We went back to, like, the big church. And so this church just kept on going. Now, this church has been through some really hard times. It has had several pastors who have had moral failures,

and they haven't stewarded what God had placed in their hands. They just haven't stewarded well. and so it started to deplete. And the congregation, you know, people started to leave. And it was actually at one point, they were running at 500, like back in the day. It depleted, went down to 25 people that were left here. And so enter in Bikers Church. So that church, sorry, was called City Church. The one that Rob and I helped start, it was called City Church.

Biker's Church started completely, like autonomously on its own by a couple. Well, the original founders were Garner and Nellia. We call him Hillbilly. That's his kind of road name. And so he came out of a life of addiction and he's a hardcore biker. You know, he's long hair tattoos, like, you know, wears jeans in a leather vest all the time. he didn't really fit in in other churches. And so he wanted to start something for people like him who were coming out of that lifestyle, but still loved, you know, to be to be a biker. And most churches

you go into, you know, they do look at you with what you're wearing and you can't wear a hat. And so he just wanted a place that was super casual and where anybody would feel welcome. That's how Biker's Church was birthed. And so they were meeting in a different church. They had rented. They were kind of nomadic. They were renting other facilities. And they were, they're kind of like their lease was up at this place they were at and this church was struggling so badly. So they came in here and so the two churches, I wouldn't say that they merged, but the two churches were operating out of this building at the same time. So Bikers Church service was on Thursday night because the bikers like to ride all Sunday. And the other church had a Sunday service like a Sunday service, like

more of a family-oriented service. So when we got here, they were operating at the same time, but still had very separate identities. And so that was kind of a problem when we got here. They had two web pages. They had two Facebook pages, two Twitter accounts, two different names. And then I felt like, well, we can't really get rid of one name or the other because Bikers Church has such a great reputation in the community for the way that they minister to people. But if you Googled Bikers Church, most people think, well, I don't belong there. And so, you know, Rob and I worked really hard to erase those lines with the leadership team here. They were all for it.

But to erase those lines and to make this one church. And actually, what Convoy did, it put. It put Bikers Church on the map. And so now we're just known as Bikers Church, and we don't make any bones about it. And you can literally go from Newfoundland to B.C. And most people have heard of Bikers Church. So it's kind of not a problem anymore. That identity crisis that we were in were just one church, and it's Bikers Church.

And so that's how we came to be. Is that? Yeah. Well, it does in one sense. The other sense is I don't know if I heard in there how you get to Bikers Church. You mentioned getting the building, leaving to Toronto, diagnosed, come back to the big one, and then is there the tug to go back? Or what, why, why the mess? Why go back to the mess?

Well, I'll tell you, I, I am 100% certain that God actually removed us from this in order to save, save us from a lot of the things that happened here. A lot of the marriages that were here broke down. A lot of friendships broke up. a lot of people stopped actually serving God. They just walked away and didn't want anything to do with God because of what happened in the church. There was a lot of just crappy things that happened here. And so I really feel like I know that God removed us from this in order to spare us that

because he was going to send us back in. And we had to be anchored and we had to be whole in order to come and withstand what. what would happen here. And so, I mean, even when we were at the big church, we joked that I had rehab row because I had all these addicts coming to church with me, you know, and I always did that. My husband jokes that, you know, some people bring home stray animals, but my wife brings home stray people. And it's true, we always, I've turned to my storage room and there are lots of people from convoy

who have actually stayed in my storage room. We turned our storage room into this cute little bedroom, you know. The ceiling's not finished even, but it's cozy and it's safe. And I'm going to put this little plug in for Tamara. She stayed over one night. And I had washed all the bed sheets, but I had these two pillowcases that were still in the dryer. And she went to bed and I forgot to put pillowcases on the pillows. They were brand new pillows, but still I woke up in the morning and said, I didn't put pillowcases on Tamara's pillows.

Oh my gosh. So I'm getting a redo on that one. But, yeah, we turned our storage room into this cute little bedroom because I long, long ago, you know, had this dream of working with troubled kids. And actually, I worked in a boys group home. And so I had this dream of running something called Hope House, you know, where we help rehabilitate guys that struggled with addiction and, you know, didn't know that you need to change your bed sheets once a week and you cut up vegetables and you eat them and you, you know, look up new recipes and cook with fresh ingredients and you pay your bills on time.

And I would call it Hope House. And, you know, I would always say, like, oh, one day, I'll open Hope House, and God said to me, you're going to do both and. Just stick a sign on your door, your Hope House already. So I ended up, you know, through COVID, there was this beautiful detangling. I don't know how else to describe it, but like this detangling of the things of this world. And I looked around the house one day, and our storage room was a storage room, and it was full of all of our crap that we've moved 13 times in our 27 years of marriage. And I was like,

you know what? I'm not moving this anymore. We've carted this around with us for 20 years, 25 years. I don't want to do this. What is even in these boxes and these bins that if I had to get in my truck and flee, what here am I tied to? What would I have a hard time leaving? And so I opened up all those bins. And I looked at it all, and I put it all on the couch, and I remembered, you know, had the school shoes that I had with all the outsider's names I'd written on them in grade six and my cheerleading uniform from junior high and love letters from Rob and my old diaries and my teddy bear and all this stuff. And I smiled and I remembered, and then I put it all in a garbage bag and I walked it to the curb.

it was taking up prime real estate in my home where there could have been lives being saved. So we emptied our storage room of all the stuff and we put in a bed and a carpet and, you know, made it pretty. And so Hope House is up and running and lots of people come through there and stay in our storage room. We've taken homeless people home from the church and we've, you know, had the likes of, of Tamara stay with us and lots of other people. So yeah, so we're doing both and. And so with the church, like God knew how he wired us. And so he took us out of here to preserve us, to train us.

We got wonderful training at the church that we grew up in in order to send us back here so that we could do this. And I'll tell you, Sean, we are Oh, sorry, Rob's doing something that he won't do again. We are only, we're only like a seven-minute drive from Parliament Hill. It is to the west of us. And I actually, when I look at this building, what I see, like, prophetically is, you know, when you're doing a new construction build and the guys that build, like, the forms before the walls come in,

like you have these temporary, you know, frames that they build to kind of anchor and keep up the walls while they're being built. I feel like that's what Bikers Church is in this city. I feel like we are pushing back the darkness and we are like holding ground from Parliament Hill. And I know, like, people that have come through for convoy that they've said, like we just, we could feel the darkness when we're, we got here. It felt different. I mean, we're in it all the time, so I guess we don't realize it, but I actually feel like we're holding some ground that the government would love to have. And we've, I mean, we've become a thorn in our neighbor's side because, you know, we didn't

force vaccination and masking and all that stuff. I feel like we're holding ground that the enemy wants. And there have been so many people that have walked in our doors here who can't even get off the carpet at the front door. They're overcome because they feel the Holy Spirit so thick in this place. That's what's happening here. And so God knew that I decided I wanted to be a Quaritan Boom. He knew that Rob would be the kind of preacher that would preach the gospel, no matter how offensive it is. I mean, he wears a T-shirt often that says God made them male and female.

You know, that's online. People can see it. It's not a message of hate. It's actually a message of love. And he's brave enough and bold enough to talk about all of the culture topics that other churches just don't even want to touch because they don't want to open it.

And, you know, we've been accused of being so political, We're actually, I think it's the other way around. I think the churches that forced the masks and that did all, you know, put the arrows on the floor and made people register and wouldn't let people come to church and sent them running out of the parking lot real quick afterwards. I think they became political. I think they played the game. We just opted out. We're like, no, we don't want any part of this. We just want people to be able to come to church.

And so, you know, some crappy things happened here before COVID. The pastor that hired Rob, he had a significant mental breakdown, and he ended up leaving the church and taking half the church with him. We were left with 40 people. And so, you know, it had grown in a few years. It had grown to about 80, and we couldn't really seem to break 100 people. And then COVID hit. And so we did the first lockdown because, I mean, we didn't, you know, we didn't really know, but it wasn't too long.

A couple weeks into it, we were looking at each other, like, there's just something not adding up here. I don't know. I can't put my finger on it. And then when Justin Trudeau did the BLM march on Parliament Hill in June that year of 2020, when everybody had been locked in their homes and missing birthday parties and weddings and funerals and people weren't allowed to go to work. but a Black Lives Matter march could happen. That's it. We were done. Pulled the arrows off the floor. We got rid of, I threw all the hand sanitizer and the garbage. And that was it. We were done. We weren't wearing masks. We weren't, I mean, we're not vaccinated.

We're okay with that. We've been kind of kicked out of our family for it. It's okay. We're building a new life. And, you know, we're okay to be misunderstood. And so I think you're, you know, when you talk about Ottawa, it's funny because I wrote down the word I'd used was evil. And you've kind of answered it in a way. And the thought that comes to mind is you're the candlelight in the window, right? You're the, you're the light in the darkness. And I don't think, I don't think in the physical. sense like of walking around the streets of Ottawa. Ottawa is this evil place. But I certainly think in the spiritual sense it certainly is. And I've heard this about different parts of the world where, you know, evil is certainly there, you know, the devil is certainly there. And spiritually, you can feel that. And so to me, when you say, you know, we've been living in it and we don't

notice it, but that people can walk through the door and like experience the holy spirit to me i'm to me i like i find it odd that i didn't find my way to you i find that odd but in saying that i know a ton of people who did and talk very highly it makes complete sense to me and it also makes sense that like you know Ottawa is not this it's a beautiful city it's a beautiful city there's a lot going on there there's also a lot going on that can't be seen that is strange. Well, so goes the capital. So goes the nation.

Capital City is a stronghold. And if you think in terms of like war and in battle, you definitely want to get the capital, right? You want to seize control of that. And so I feel like Justin Trudeau has given himself over to evil. And, you know, like I've said this to many people, our war is not against flesh and blood. It's not against my war is not against Justin Trudeau.

It's against principalities and powers that are, that he's opened the door to. And so that is what I feel Bikers Church has become like we're also a stronghold but for good. And so we're pushing back the darkness. And I feel like we are holding some ground that the enemy does not want us to hold. And so he's doing all kinds of stuff to get at us in different ways to try and shut this down. But none of it's working. I'll tell you, Sean, we've grown from 80 people before COVID. We're running at 500 people every week.

So, you know, when people say things to us like, oh, you know, you guys disobeyed and you shouldn't be doing. in this and you shouldn't even call yourself pastors and how dare you you're giving god such a bad name i'm just like look at the fruit look at what's happening here i mean you can judge any work by his fruit you can judge it i mean marriages are being restored people are being freed from addiction people are finding great jobs like better jobs their relationships being restored all over there there's all kinds of really beautiful beautiful things people being healed of like lifelong wounds and trauma. And, you know, we run a free store and a drop-in. And we serve, we have a, it's interesting. I haven't thought of this. But we have a congregation of

500 now. And we're also serving 500 people, 500 people a month through our drop-in and free store, which are our two biggest ministries. And everything's run by volunteers and it's all by donation. and on paper, I'll tell you this thing does not make sense, but what is it working? You know, I'm chuckling on this side because a very popular episode on this show was The Cowboy Preacher. He's Joshua Allen.

Don't expect you to know who that is. He's a local guy from around here that was, I'm sure I'm like positive, and I assume he's going to listen to this. And I assume he's going to listen to this. And I assume he would fit in like a dirty shirt back in the day. He was a part of, you know, what do he say? He was trying to catch a bullet back in the day.

Like he was in prison in and out, et cetera, et cetera. And now if you run into him, you'd have no clue. You know, I don't get the sense of that one. I mean, anyways, the whole point of the story is. So he gave me this little tiny Bible, you know, okay? And he ends up he's out everywhere he goes. And so I leave it in the vehicle because I, You know, every once in a while, I'm like, you know, this morning I went to men's group.

I was up real early and I just, I could not fall back asleep at like 3 a.m. And so, you know, I used to just be annoyed by that. But now I'm kind of like, okay, well, maybe I should pop open the Bible and, you know, and maybe that's just my own mind doing what it wants to do. Anyways, I'm sitting in front of where we're meeting and I go, oh, I got, open my seat. I got the little Bible. And so I'm, I don't know. I'm going to flip it through.

and I've written the whole meandering of this story, folks, is I'm a big believer in Ephesians 6, which you just, so eloquently we're talking about. And it's funny, it didn't dawn on me this morning. I don't know if I've ever stared at Ephesians 5 before, but I was reading Ephesians 5, and it's just like, I don't know. I told the entire men's group,

you just got to go read Ephesians 5. And I didn't clue in that Ephesion 6 is right after it. And I don't know where I'm going with this story. Other than I 100% agree. You know, Frank Peretti, the author, I read his book, and it's a long story, Melissa, one that I won't rehash with you this morning. I've heard bits.

I've heard bits, yeah. But the thing about him is Ephesion 6, right, at the start of piercing the darkness, this present darkness. And I was like, I really like this. Now it's at the front of my, I journal a little bit. Like, I just, sometimes you need to get a thoughts. And I wrote that out.

And it's an entirety, I'm like, this is really, really, really important. And this morning, you know, before I sit and chat with you, it was Ephesians 5. And I don't know if there's anything particular that I'm just like, I need to share. I just, Ephesians, of all the books, I keep getting drawn back to it. And it's a wild couple chapters in there. It actually has instruction for our whole lives. If we could just do Ephesians 5 and 6, we'd be so much.

better off. Yeah. Well, it's funny. You say that. And I'm like, yeah, I was reading it this morning, and I'm like, that's a thought, right? And it's Ephesians 5, 6. Don't be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins for the anger of God will fall on, all who disobey him.

And I guess if I go back, you know, you can be sure that no immoral, impure or greedy person will inherit the kingdom of Christ and God, of God, and of God. For a greedy person is an idolater, idolater, I could say the word, right. Worshiping the things of this world, don't be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins for the anger of God will fall on all who disobey him. I'm like, hmm, that's, that's a deep thought. That's a really deep thought. I mean, simple, too. Yeah, there you go. There's John reading the Bible on the, on the, on the podcast. Oh, how things have changed, folks, how things have changed. Cowboy preacher would be very impressed. He's probably laughing somewhere as he's driving along. Um, idol worship. You mentioned

idol worship tied to COVID. What did you mean? Okay. Am I talk? I feel like I'm talking too much. Am I talking too much? No, you're doing. I didn't, I didn't wait. I did not invite Melissa on the podcast not to talk, folks. You were doing great. You're doing perfectly fine. Because I have a real spiel about this. That's it. Podcast over. We're tying up. She's got a spiel, folks.

Okay, so I've been to Israel three times. We'll talk about a hot topic. Some people are going to tune out now. Don't tune out. This is really good. Okay, so a biblical worldview brings something different. Okay? And so I just want to say, though, Sean, in that scripture that you just read,

I joke with Bethan. Do you know Bethan Nodwell is? I know of her. So there's a whole group of you I know of, but there's a group of you I've never had on the show. Okay. Well, she's awesome. So we've become good friends in this. And actually, God, you know what? God was lining people up. He sent Bethan here and then he sent Danny here and a couple other people that were pretty instrumental in the convoy. And they decided that they were going to call them. this church home. So it just, I mean, when I look back, I can't even deny the hand of God, just like leaving this beautiful tapestry. So I just want to say that, like, you're reading that scripture, I joke with Beth in all the time that, you know, my MO in this has always been like, hey, have you met my friend Jesus? Like, that's what I'm doing because I don't want God's wrath for people. I don't want people to be separated.

for eternity from God. And so that's why we're unapologetic about the gospel here is because that's actually our job is to go into all the world and preach the good news. And so like we're carrying something for people. We're carrying the good news. Like Mary carried Jesus, you know, we're carrying this good news for people.

So that I think is a beautiful part. And the living word of God, it's always feeding us. It's always giving us something. You know, Rob will preach a sermon on Sunday, and 10 different people will say, do you write that just for me? You know, and they're coming from very different walks of life and experiences, but it seems like it's so tailor-made, and that's a beautiful thing about the Word of God, is you can read the same scripture over and over, and it still brings life.

Yeah, it's pretty wild on this side. That's probably one of the wildest things I've noticed about the Bible, and I've heard from lots of people is that it just it's like, hmm, well, it's the living word, right? And it's just like, hmm, that's, there's something strange going on here. I like it, but it's kind of strange, you know.

When you talk about, hey, have you met Jesus? No, hey, it's interesting to me because, you know, in the convoy, heading there before that and months after it, I would, you know, would I identify as a Christian? I don't know.

I was thinking about it this morning. I was like, it kind of feels like a swear word. You know? I don't know. I don't know. I even just wrote an email where I'm like, and I'm like, you know, I'm trying to like type it out.

I also identify as a Christian and I think, da da da, da, right? I, where there is no vision, the people will perish was, I, I can't remember, remember who I sent that email to, but it doesn't matter. It was really hard to get out. I'm like,

oh, I'm out myself here. This guy, as I read scripture on, on, you know, like I, it's funny how my, but, but in Ottawa, I have this, like, vivid memory. It was a pretty, um, interesting day. And I don't know how to explain it. Other than I felt like I saw Jesus everywhere, which is an odd thought to have because it doesn't make any sense to me. Because at that time, I'm not it's not like I'm praying every day it's not like I'm reading the Bible it's not like I you know I was almost you know put off by people who talked about Jesus if that makes sense and yet I still remember walking around the streets of Ottawa being like I know it's not him I think because it's you know

it was just a person I'm pretty sure but it was like I saw it everywhere it was a strange, cool day. And I can't explain that. That's the best I can try and explain it. It was like, it was just like everywhere. Like, oh, there are you. But wasn't that convoy? Like, how do you put into words what this thing was? It was so, it was miraculous. It wasn't magic. It was miraculous. Those things are very different. So I think that convoy had God's hand. on it and in it and through it and around it above below like god was in it everywhere and we looked at it as an opportunity to to be the hands and feet of jesus and i don't know sean you said earlier like you know i don't really want to go into a church i don't like organize religion me uh kind of you know

leaves a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths and and i get it because a lot of churches have not, a lot of churches, a lot of people have not been good ambassadors of who Jesus really is. And so I would describe myself as a follower of Jesus, like truly a follower of Christ where I'm mindful always that I'm an ambassador. I carry his name. And so I better be doing a good job of that. Otherwise, you know, people would look at, look at us, look at us, look at at me and be like, well, I don't want to be like that. Why would I want to be like that? It doesn't smell good. It doesn't taste good. It doesn't feel good. But I would hope that that's not like the aroma that's coming out of my life. So I think that it's in, it's, we have to be in the Word of God,

number one, because it's like the plum line. Do you know what a plum line is? A plum line is a tool that contractors use, and it's like it's a piece of string with a weight. on the end of it. And it's considered the only true measurement. True. So the Word of God, it actually says it, I think in Jeremiah, that the Word of God is a plum line. And it gets dropped into our lives. And so it's my job as a follower of Jesus to line my life up with the plum line. I do not get to adjust the plum line to where I want it to go. You know, I'd like to look at a little bit of porn. I'd like to drink a little too much.

I like to gamble. I like to do all these things. Then I'm off. I'm off all over the place. I'm crooked. The plum line of the Word of God is straight and it's true and it keeps you anchored. So I think it's important that we incorporate that and that we not have our eyes on people but on Jesus

because I mean, I'm flawed. You know, I don't get it right all the time and I'm sure there's lots of people who would say, I don't want anything of what she's got because they think I'm a hypocrite or they think I've been a bad example of Christ. You know, what comes to mind is, you know, through COVID, I think we all put a lot of thought on how to get involved in our city. And that's

like city, you know, I'm speaking around here, city council, the RMs, politics, city governance, etc. And yet, I haven't taken that same mentality to a church. Isn't that funny? Like, I find that a funny thought, like, I'm almost, like, how did I overlook that? Because, like, all those other systems were flawed and attacked me the entire time. And yet I'm very apt to be like, okay, let's get voted in, let's get this. Let's take back our, yeah. And yet, the church is another, and maybe I'm wrong on this. And you being the biker's church, maybe you could tell me I'm wrong.

But like, you just mentioned it's volunteers. And it's like a group of people that make a church what it is. If you lose that group, then the church goes in the toilet pretty darn quick. And so actually, we could probably just get involved in our churches, folks. And that's probably everybody's come to that thought way faster than Sean has. I'm just like a, oops, there's a light bulb. I'm like, why haven't I thought of that before? I'm slow to the take, I guess.

And that is fair. It's having the same struggle as you. And I mean, I hear all the time, I don't want any part of organized religion, you know, because of what it's got a reputation, what it's done. and the Vatican, like, there's bad things in religion. But Jesus was pretty clear about religion, you know, which I would say would be the Pharisees. They were whitewashed tombs. They were, he called them a brood of vipers.

These were like the holiest men there were supposed to be at the time upholding the law. But they were pious and arrogant. and the same rules didn't apply to them as the common folk. And so I think that's a lot of the stink of religion is there's too many Pharisees. And there's not enough people like Peter. You know, Peter was a mess. Peter was a mess. He let Jesus down.

He lied. He, he, he, he, oh gosh, I'm sorry. really did eat my brain. I forget words all the time, but he denied Christ. He denied, that was the word I'm looking for. He denied Christ after being so close with him. But Peter got his crap together eventually and Jesus let him. Jesus knew who Peter was when he called him, which actually is a really good segue for me to talk about idol worship because when I was in Israel, we go to this place called One keeps trying to derail this conversation and Melissa keeps bringing it back on, hey? No, we're good. I'm taking over. Hi, welcome to the Sean Newman podcast.

So you go to Caesarea Philippi, which is up in the north, and there's this big rock cut out, this cave, like it's cavern. And there's water in the bottom of it. And it's beautiful, but eerie at the same time. and they have this plaque outside of it. I mean, it's this big, huge groundy. It was tour buses everywhere, and your guide's giving you the information. And our guide starts talking about this place and what it was. And this is where Jesus actually said to Peter,

he questioned him and said, who do you say that I am? And Peter says, you're the Christ, you're the Messiah. And Jesus says, yeah, you're a. right, and on this, I will build my church on this rock. He didn't mean on Peter. He meant on the truth that he was the Messiah, that he was the savior of the world. That is what he's going to build his church on.

And the gates of hell will not prevail. Now, why is that significant? Well, right where they were standing at that rock cutout, it was considered to be the gates of Hades, the Greeks were there was a lot of Greek people that lived there at the time they worshipped many gods and right at that rock cut out they considered it to be the gates of hell the god of pan was worshipped there okay this this honestly blew my mind so the god of pan was half goat half man he was wild and untamed and he was the god of the fields the god of the shepherds

and it was rumored that he would snatch you from your bed at night. He would, like, steal you, take you. There was this terror that was instilled in people over the God of Pan. And so at that place where the rock cutout was, people would often offer sacrifices, and many times it was children. They would offer their children to the God of Pan. They would throw it into the abyss in hopes to appease him. You know, they wanted good weather, they wanted good crops, they wanted fertility.

And so they would offer themselves to the God of Pan. There were often orgies that would take place. They would cut themselves. It was very wild. He played the Pan flute. Have you ever seen that with the reeds? And that was to, you know, like the legend is that he would lull you. And I don't know if you've ever seen the movie Narni.

where Tumnus is playing his pan flute and Lucy starts falling asleep, but the music is swelling and the flames of the fire are going, well, that's exactly what the enemy does to us. It's what the devil does. He gets us into this frenzy, you know, with, you got to put your mask on, you got to wash your hands, you've got to, you've got to get vaccinated, you got to, and it just keeps going and going. And people were like, they were terrified of what,

was happening. Do you know that the root word of pandemic, pandemonium, and panic are from the God of Pan? Isn't that something? So when I thought of the God of Pan being worshipped and that the word pandemic came from that, that's where I knew it was like a spirit that needed to be broken. And so worshiping God was idol worship. And you look at the book of Daniel, where Daniel Shadrach, Meshach, Abednego, they refused to worship the king's statue. And so here's where people are really going to think Melissa's crazy. I was sitting in my backyard one day. And I was gardening.

It was May of 2021. And I mean, things were in full swing. you know, forced vaccination, wearing masks everywhere, lockdowns, you know, families being destroyed. I have a lot of cousins and I had one cousin that I was particularly close to and he texted me and said, you're not allowed at my house, you can't come over, you know, my wife doesn't really want you here.

And it was, he's like, I'm really sorry, this is so awkward, but, you know, and I'm like, I get it, you choose your wife. It's okay. It's okay. But I was so heartbroken over that. I was like, I took myself to the Lord because I needed to work this out. And that's what I do. I take myself to the Lord, you know, like taking myself out to the woodshed. And so I'm like, I'm sitting at our fire pit. And I'm kind of like railing at God. Like, I can't stand that this is happening. And I'm praying. I'm talking to him. And I'm like, I'm working out my frustration. I'm telling him how frustrated. I am and all of a sudden I can see like it wasn't actually it's like in the spirit you know my eyes closed I'm praying I see this 90 foot statue in my backyard and it's full of masks all over its body and it has needles sticking out of it everywhere and hand sanitizer is flowing out its eyes nose and mouth like a waterfall and the Lord said to me this is a

idol worship and I want you to have no part of it. You stay away from all of it. And I was like, okay, God. And then I heard him speak the two first commandments, have no gods before me and do not fashion for yourself an idol. And then I could see Abraham laying Isaac on the altar. Now, Abraham was the first man that God calls out of Err. He calls him out of a pagan nation and he's going to establish his covenant with Abram. And so, you know, he asks Abram to sacrifice his son Isaac. He was his only son. He was a promise from God. And Isaac or Abraham obeys. So I see Abraham laying Isaac on the altar and the Lord tells me, you are going to have to lay down people and things that you love very much. But I am going to provide for you in this. This is like long before convoy, long before I know that

there's people like me. You know, we're being chastised by our friends for keeping the church open, for being so loud about freedom, for remaining unvaccinated. And here I'm having this vision of this idol worship. And so I get my Bible out and I read through the book of Daniel where Shadrach, Mishok and Abednego, they decide they're not bowing to this idol. And they get thrown in the fiery furnace. And they're spared. The people all around them get burnt, they die, but because they stood, they were spared. And so that was like one of the things that it just like steeled my resolve. I will not bow to these idols because the Lord warned me.

So that's why I think that COVID was idol worship. people bowed to the mask, they bowed to the vaccine, they bowed to the hand sanitizer everywhere, they bowed to closing their churches, they bowed to letting loved ones die alone, making family members stand outside while their mothers were dying, refusing parents to go in for childbirth, Like those are moments you never are getting back, ever. And so I have a justice meter that runs really high. In what I do every day, I'm advocating for people all the time. I'm advocating for addicts.

I advocate for the homeless, for prostitutes, for people who are, you know, in low-income brackets that don't have enough food or can't budget their money. I'm always advocating for people. And so my justice meter running high, it all came together. All of it was like one big just, it like makes up who I am, this justice meter running high,

my faith in God, hearing his voice and warning me not to bow to these idols and then to go and preach the gospel. So God literally, brought thousands and thousands of Canadians to our front step. What are you going to do with them? God knows everything, right?

Why is it that he can take you and your husband and steer you away from going to the biker church too early, sparing you, you know, maybe irreparable harm? I have no idea. and other god-fearing people who went there are put through it and maybe don't come out of it and break all apart. Why is that? Why would he do such a thing if he can all send us on this? Because I've wondered the same, you know, because I go to Ottawa, Melissa.

And I think of it as like a crap, you know, the old video of the car running into the wall and the crash test dummy going through the window. That's me. And then I come back here and I kind of like pull myself back together. I put my shoes back on. I comb my hair. I go, what was that? And it takes months of like thinking and, you know, going and on and on and on. Why do I have that experience?

Why do others go to the, the biker's church and have their experience? Why do the people before you have their experience where their families are torn apart? Why? I don't know. That's a very large question. Oh, but I have an answer. Free will. It's a bugger, man.

It's a bugger. I got free will to choose. God put Adam and Eve in the garden. It was paradise. Their bodies were perfect. There was no sickness. There was no toiling. He put them in there and he said,

everything is yours. All of this. It's all your. yours, except just don't touch this right here. Don't touch this. And what did they do? Yeah, touch it. So he gave them free will to choose. God could literally snap his finger. He would, he would, he would know, I feel like, okay, this is going to the edge of my, my thought process. He would know that you're going to choose wrong or that you're going to choose right, because he can see that. Yeah. right now I go he already can see the future he can already see where I'm going and he already

knows if I'm going to to to mess this up or I'm going to walk a tight a tight line right well him already knowing is different than you having free will I know but I'm like for the rest of time the the devil is going to try and lure your way right in all these different ways, all these different ways. Sometimes you're like, I see what you're doing, not today. Other times, you know, you get a weekend and you're like, oh, what? How do you? Yeah. And I'm like, like, that's a, you know, when you, you were saying, A, I, at this point, I, I don't think anyone that is crazy that walks on the show and, and, and tells the stories you've told. That's me personally, uh, to the audience. If they've been along for the ride, they've been

along for a ride. And I don't think they do either. Can I show you something? This was, my, my pastor taught me this. I have the Bible here. This is like the first three chapters of Genesis, okay? So if that was just the pages, because there's all like, you know, the table of contents and the preamble, all that stuff.

So there's actually two pages. That's Genesis 1 to 3. This is where we were right with God. We were in right relationship with him. this is him trying to reconcile us. Well, what's helpful is what you said earlier about, you know, I was frustrated. I was, I don't think he said cursing. You said something along the lines.

I was angry. I was frustrated. And I went back to God. And one of the best pieces of advice that I think I've received is anytime you're having issues, turn back to the Bible. Turn back. turn back and I I've told this story a couple times I think that I was I was having a morning and it was another 4.30 in the morning you know going to a men's group of all places. Jeez I have to think about that for a bit of time. Anyways I got up or sorry it might be your golden hour maybe I

is that such a thing well I got up and I was I was it was almost like I hadn't read the Bible in like two weeks maybe I hadn't been praying and I got the vehicle and I got the vehicle and I I realized this. You know, I have this, like, moment of like, hmm. So I just, I'm driving and I'm praying and I'm annoyed. And I don't know what I was annoyed about. And there's a homeless guy there. And it's like minus 30. It's 4.30 in the morning. In the middle of the road, he's in rough shape. And I drive by him and I'm having this argument with God. I'm like literally going, I'm not picking him up. Okay. And I'm like, don't, no, I'm not picking him up. But I'm like slowly slowing down, like, are you going to let the guy die? Is that what you're going to do? And so,

So I go back and I pick him up and I take them to the hospital and we have this conversation along the way. And I wish I, you know, obviously I wasn't meant to write it down, but I wish I had, you know, because it was just picking him up was for me, not for him. Like I don't even know how to like, you know, and it's such a wild story to tell where I go out, people probably think I'm crazy. It's like, fine, fine, you know, you do what I talk about for what you will. I hope it impacts somebody somewhere or it doesn't and that's fine because the story of how it

impact me got me reading the Bible like immediately again and I was praying again because I was like oh my oh my lord you know like oh there you are and you you answered my prayer that morning in the most insane way right like it makes zero sense but it played out right in front of my eyes like I It was just like, this is, this is something. Like, you know, I'm like literally teary-eyed on a homeless guy's, not trod her, but I prayed for him. And that was strange. Listen, folks, all this is strange to me.

Writing, I'm a Christian in an email is strange to me, you know? And yet, that's been the journey. But the one that plagues me is like, you know, I hope I got 40 years to go, you know, maybe 50. I don't know. I like to think I got a lot of time and the journey is just. just begun. And I go, you already know what I'm going to be tempted by. You already know. And the only thing I can do with free will is every time I get off the path, which will certainly happen because I am not Jesus. I am not a perfect human being, is you have to turn back. That's

the best piece of advice I've gotten. Well, the Bible says that we have to take up our cross daily. He didn't say once a week. He didn't say once a month. He said daily because he knows us. He knows that I need to pick up my cross daily because I'll tell you what, for his loving and kind and like how I'm fired up for justice as I am, I feel like I am capable of doing dangerous things

because I'm fired up and my justice meter runs high. So I, what keeps me stopping at every stop sign in red light and being a responsible gun owner and a good parent and a faithful wife and a good steward of everything that God has placed in my hands for biker's church? What keeps me? It's picking up my cross daily because, Sean, I realize that I can, honestly, I can ruin my life with one click. One click. That's it. But what keeps me? It's actually my love of Jesus. That's what keeps me.

I want to please my Heavenly Father more than I want justice from government. And I want justice from our government. I joked with this guy just the other day. Like, you know, I want every official, every doctor. every lawyer, every union teacher, all of them, all of them. I want every single one in prison who were complicit in this evil that took money to sell us out. I want every single one in prison. Don't get me wrong.

I want them to come to Jesus while they're in prison, but I want them in prison. I have this like justice meter that it just like always going. but there's something that keeps me ungovernable but being able to submit to authority so and that's god it's god it's knowing what i am capable of because the bible says the heart is deceitfully wicked above all things whenever i hear somebody saying oh just follow your heart i think that's the worst advice ever because your heart just wants you to feel good. It wants to avoid pain. It wants to avoid conflict. It wants the path of least resistance. But God has, he has an anchor, he has a plum line that is going to keep us true every single time. His plum line keeps us true.

And so I willingly bring myself to God. I put myself before him. Like I need to get drugged to the woodshed sometimes, you know? I need to put myself before the Lord and say, bring your rod of discipline in my life. Because not only am I better for it, but my husband is, my kids are, the church we steward. And I'm not even going to say run because that's like we're the boss here.

Like, I don't look at Bikers Church, like we're the boss here. I look at it like God has placed this beautiful thing in our hands to steward. And what are we going to do with it? What did we do with the thousands of people that came through this city that had nowhere else to go? that couldn't use a bathroom anywhere, couldn't charge their phone, couldn't warm up, get a meal. God just keep saying,

what are you going to do with them? What are you going to do with the Danny Bulfords and the Jeremy McKenzie's and the ferrymen and the Safe Canada Boys? What are you going to do with them? And I take it so seriously, I literally feel like I'm holding this precious thing that God has entrusted to me. And I'm like, God, are you sure you want me to carry this?

Like, you know what's in here. And he keeps saying, I'm just going to keep sending them to you. I'm going to ask you like how far you're willing to go. And I'm willing to go pretty far, Sean. I am willing to go far for people. to say, have you met my friend Jesus? I've really enjoyed this. I appreciate you coming on.

I appreciate you reaching out. And I tell you what, if I'm ever back in the Ottawa area, I'm going to be certainly making sure one of my stops is the biker's church. I hope so. And I would suggest anyone headed that way, maybe make a stop as well. And if you're coming from the West and you heard about it here, maybe say hello for me as well. But I appreciate you coming on and doing this. Thank you.