Shaun Newman Podcast - #598 - Franco Terrazzano

Episode Date: March 8, 2024

He is the Federal Director of the Canadian Taxpayers Federations. All things taxes and what to expect come April 1st.  SNP Presents returns April 27th Tickets Below:https://www.showpass.com/cornerstone/ Let me know what you think. Text me 587-217-8500 Substack:https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcastE-transfer here: [e-mail] Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/ Email: [e-mail] Phone [phone] – general sales line, ask for Grahame and be sure to let us know you’re an SNP listener.

This is Alex Krenner. This is Dave Collum. This is Bruce Party. Hi, this is Jeremy McKenzie, the raging dissonant. Hello, this is Maxim Bernier. This is Danny Beaufort. This is Chuck Prodnick. This is Vance Crow, and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast.

Welcome to the podcast, folks. Happy Friday. How's everybody doing? Back in the chair. Back from holidays. Ooh. You know, I miss this place. You know, it was nice to get away.

Everybody was asking me, how? I can't, you know, how to get away? How did it feel? How'd it feel? How to feel? Felt pretty darn good. I'm not going to lie. I turned the phone off for a bit, which was probably the biggest thing I noticed, you know,

just not dinging and everything else. Not that I don't love hearing from all of you. I certainly do. But I've got a few other thoughts here. Let's do this first. With government deficits running out of control, now might be the perfect time to diversify some of your hard-earned savings into physical money that can't be printed.

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Either way, to you folks, and if you've never thought about it or hesitant or just like, I don't know, I don't know. I don't know. Give Silver Gold Bull a checkout. Go to silvergold bowl.ca. Give Graham a call. I've talked to him on the phone,

as have many of you. Nice young man, and he can answer your questions or get you directed to where at least you can get more of your questions answered. So I thought that was pretty cool. Rec Tech Power Products, they've committed to excellence in the power sports industry for over 20 years.

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automotive parts. They got on-site inventory management, so make sure if you are worried about anything. You know, if you're a company that relies on making sure you have inventory and who's going to pay attention to that and who wants to pay attention to that. Ignite distribution, Ken, that's Shane Stafford. Give them a call 780842-3433. So if you ever decide to go to, I don't know, say Jamaica or some other part of the world, you got somebody paying attention so that you don't have to. Now, holidays, Jamaica was spectacular. It was a lot of fun. It was cool getting away. And, I mean, I'm not going to kid you. Going to plus 28 while you were all having minus 30.

Yeah, don't feel sorry for me. That was enjoyable. Got away. My in-laws came up, watched the kids for us while the wife and I got to go. And, you know, like, I don't know, to all you parents out there who are in the throes of diapers. Not that I'm in diapers anymore. Not to me. I mean, the kids.

You know, you go through some years there where it's just like all hands on deck and you're stressed and everything else. So to get to leave for a week and have, you know, them taking care of and having fun and enjoying it and not be worried about them was a ton of fun. It was, it was a ton of fun. It was cool to leave. I did miss, you know, you just get in the routine, you know, of like coming in the studio and talking to different people. And I started to miss that towards the end as much as I miss my kids, you know, and it's just become part of life. So it's become part of life talking to all you and getting in on this. So that has been enjoyable to come back to.

Now, one of the upcoming events is SMP presents the Cornerstone Forum. And so, you know, I assume everybody's been checking that out. One of the things, it's down in the show notes, you know, you got different speakers. You got Martin Armstrong. He's going to be coming in virtually. Alex Kramer, Tom Luongo, Curtis Stone, Chuck Pradnik, Chris Sam. and I just confirmed Mikhail Thorup.

So that's going to be the lineup of speakers that day. So that's April 27th. Super cool. You can buy tables that sit with all the individual speakers. So so far, the table with Al Treanor,

sold. The table with Tom Longo, sold. The table is Sean Newman. Hey, I was happy to be number three. I was hoping some of the guests would go before me.

But sold. You can't sit with this guy, if that is of any concerns. to you. But there's only so many of those. So if you're interested in getting a table with said speaker, Chris Sims, Chuck Proudnick, Mikhail Thorup, or Curtis Stone, you know, because you're going to get to spend the entire day with them, right? And hopefully get to pick their brain a little bit during lunch, any break, supper time into the evening. Now's the time to do it, because they seem to be going quite quick. There's only 200 and, I think it's 20 tickets available. And so

we're well under 200 left now. So if you're sitting on the fence going, yeah, I'm thinking about it. I'm thinking about it. April 27th here in Lloydminster. It's going to be a fun evening. And I got one other surprise coming for April 28th, but we're just working out the details.

Once I have those, I'm going to pass those along as well. There's enough of a teaser for you. Man, it feels good to be back. Happy to be back. Looking forward to, you know, the episodes to come here, the push into through March into April as spring continues to just

you know I can feel it it's so close I can almost taste it suns shining more it's going to be awesome anyways that's enough of me babbling on I was going to say babboring that doesn't make sense either how about we get to that tale of the tape he's the federal director of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation as a former

economic policy analyst with the Calgary Chamber of Commerce I'm talking about Franco Tarasano so buckle up here we go Welcome to the Sean Numa podcast today. I'm joined by Franco Tarasano. So, sir, thanks for hopping back on. Hey, man. Thanks for having me on today.

Looking forward to it. Well, I figure between you and Chris Sims, Chris is going to be on stage at the next SMP presents. That is April 27th. I'm probably going to have her on right around April 1st because although it is April Fool's and there's a lot that goes on there, I wish it was a joke that everything happens on that day,

happens on that day. The only cool thing about April 1st, before we get into all the stupidity of the government is April 1st will be two years of me full-time podcasting, Franco. And so April 1st, although there's a lot of bad things, April 1st also represents a day of me going full-time when I made the leap. I don't know why I picked that day. That's just the day it fell on.

Hey, right on, man. Congratulations. And I'm glad you're sprinkling in a little bit of optimism before I come on the show and just be the big old rain cloud that I normally am. That's all right. I think knowing what's coming is a good thing, right? That way people know and they're not cut off guard. I don't think many people these days are caught off guard, but, you know, April 1st isn't that far off. It's going to come real fast. So lay it on me. What do you want to shed on us today about April 1st? Well, this one's a gut punch, man, because on the very same day in a couple of weeks now, you're going to be paying higher carbon tax, higher alcohol taxes, and you're going to be paying.

for bigger salaries for members of parliament in Ottawa. Because on the very same day that our federal government takes more money out of your pocket, these members of parliament are going to be stuffing more money into their own. Carbon tax is going up, alcohol tax is going up. And as I already mentioned, MP pay is also going up. So if you have any listeners that are members of parliament that work in Ottawa and they want to consider themselves as being a true champion of the taxpayer, you know, let me put it to them right now, if you want to be a true champion of the taxpayer, you not only have to oppose the tax

hikes, you should also be opposing the higher pay for members of parliament. Let's start with the carbon tax. It's going up. And I remember I'm going to go once again to Chris because Chris was the first one never lay this down on me. You know, this is where I first learned that it was going up and it was going up all the way to 2030. I was like, oh my God, this isn't good. What is it April 1st looking like? Can you give me the numbers and the breakdown for for people what they can expect to see. Yeah, yeah, totally, man. So after the tax hike, so on April 1, the carbon tax is going to cost 17 cents a

liter of gas, 21 cents a liter of diesel and 15 cents per cubic meter of natural gas. Okay, so it hits you when you go to fuel up before you take your kids to school. It hits you when you got to stay warm during the winter months. And of course, it also hits you in many different places, right? because the carbon tax cascades throughout the entire economy. So when you go pick up some chicken, some ground beef, a jug of milk, well, you're also paying the carbon tax indirectly at the grocery store. And here's why.

Okay, so the federal government still applies as carbon tax on Canadian farmers, on their natural gas, on their propane that they use to dry their barns and heat their grain. Okay, so because the carbon tax costs the farmer who grows the food, And because the carbon tax costs the trucker who delivers the food, the carbon tax also makes it more expensive for you to buy the food at the store. Oh, one sec. Wait a sec. You also asked for the household. What does it mean for you?

Okay. So the average family in Alberta, let's say, the carbon tax is going to cost the average family about 900 bucks even after the rebates. And that's an annual thing, right? So you mentioned that the carbon tax is going up and up and up and up and up. Well, next year, in the next year alone, that net cost to you, even after considering these rebates that Trudeau loves to shriek about, well, the carbon tax is still going to cost like just the average family about $900 in a year. Yeah. Lovely. When you talk about 17 cents per liter, I assume that's not going up 17 cents.

I assume we're up a small portion, not small. I mean, 17 cents in carbon tax. I'm not trying to make that small. What is it costing us today? And what's the jump on April 1st? Yes, a three cent increase. So it's going from 14 cents a liter to 17 cents a liter. Yeah, I just, to put that in perspective, you know, because like when April 1st, you go to fuel up, you know, I, I forgive me, folks.

Is it 117 right now in Alberta? I can't remember. It's at 129. I think at one point is 129. So all of a sudden, it'll be 132 just automatically on April 1st. going up and you go the cascading effect which always shocks me at how um politicians can't see where this leads to prices of everything right we have this country we have this country that is built on trucking geez the freedom convoy just taught us piss those folks off and you see what

happens and now they're you know you've got everything's going up April first and even if it takes a bit of time you know what I mean like like they know like come on everyone knows that that the carbon tax is going to hit you every step of the way. This isn't like an oopsie, my bad. How could have the carbon tax ever increased the price of essentially everything? No, they know. They know, right? The people who are supporting the carbon tax in Ottawa now,

it's just, they're just trying to spin their way out of this hole. That's it, right? You heard about the Trudeau government, you know, in their infinite wisdom, they just think the rubs don't understand how good the carbon tax is for us. Right? So what do they do? well, let's rebrand the carbon tax. That's just lipstick on a pig. They can call the carbon tax and rebate the save the planet money for everybody tax. And people would still know that the carbon

tax is making their heating bills more expensive, making it more expensive for them to see the inlaws, making it more expensive for them to buy groceries. People know because people generally understand how much the cost of necessities are costing them and how much money they have left over in their bank accounts. Now, the people who don't truly know, are the members of parliament, are the elites in the Ottawa bubble? And we're going to get to this in a second. But one of the reasons that they don't understand the impact of their taxation is because they've financially insulated themselves from those costs.

And how do they do that? Well, they give themselves a raise every single year. Before we get to the raise every single year, because it just mind-blowing. I think you mentioned a few things there that I'm just going to slow us down. just a smidge and make sure everybody knows. I think everybody knows this, but it went from climate action incentive payment to now the Canada carbon rebate.

So they're changing the name. I don't think anyone's fooled, but in case that's the first time you're hearing that, that is news, right? Like, I mean, they've changed the name of this thing because of the negative publicity. And one of the reasons when you asked, hey, like, should we talk about this?

I'm like, yes, yes, we should. Because when you have things on the run, and I don't know how much of a run it's on, because it's still going up, I think, you know, your poll there showing that, you know, 69% of Canadians don't want this. I mean, is about as loud as the Canadians can get. I mean, how much more do you need? And all these things are really important because at one point, I don't think that's what the polls say.

I don't think people fully understood how this was going to impact them. Now I think everybody knows exactly how this is impacting them. Nobody wants anything to go up April 1st. And yet, that is what's set to happen. Yeah, let me just break down those polls a little, that poll a little bit more. Okay. So the overall top line figure is that about seven out of 10 Canadians are against the carbon tax hike on April 1. But like, so that means you only have about what close to 30% of Canadians who support it. Now, you might be wondering how in the world do 30% of Canadians support the tax?

Like that's a low number or tax increase. That's a low number. But how in the world are that many people? Well, just think, like, everyone knows that the liberals, the NDP are slumping in the polls, right? But if you add up the liberal, the NDP, and the green support, you're close to 50%. So that means that even liberal and NDP supporters are against the carbon tax hike. Right? Now, let me go even further, because if you pull back the numbers even more, it shows just how much of a disaster this is for Trudeau and his governing members of.

of parliament. So across every single demographic, whether it's you're a man or a woman, whether you have a certain income level, education, it doesn't matter what province you're in, across every single demographic and province, the vast majority of Canadians oppose the carbon tax hike. So I mean, look, the poll is so clear that if the Trudeau government and his liberal members of parliament really want to turn this ship around, they should not be raising their carbon tax again. We'll see if they listen. Any signs of common sense going to the liberals and them being like, hey,

we're just going to stop the carbon tax. Is there any sign of that? Any sign? Any like remote possibility. Any sliver of hope? Well, you know, these things don't happen until they do. Right. And they're not going to, they're not going to play their hand. They're not going to tell the media, oh, we're thinking about another carve out. because the second they do that, that is essentially happening. Do you know what I mean?

So let me give you an example. A couple months ago, your listeners probably remember when Trudeau decided to take the carbon tax off of furnace oil for three years, right? Predominantly helping Atlantic Canadians. Well, nobody knew that was going to happen. Like, okay, let me give you, let me pull back the curtain even more. I was on my way to the gym. I was like, okay, the day is essentially done.

I'll check my emails, whatever. I'm going to the gym. And then I get a call. I think it was from CTV. I might be mistaken. I think it was from CTV saying, hey, Trudeau is about to hold a press conference. And it looks like it's going to be about environmental issues and some relief. And I was like, oh, M.G.

You know, like, is this the day they're going to scrap the carbon tax? Right. So even within like a couple hours before that carbon tax carve out was announced, Nobody really knew it was going to happen. So it's tough to predict. But look, obviously, liberal MPs are so worried about losing their cushy political jobs that the whole landscape in Ottawa is so volatile right now. So maybe, maybe is.

And for the listener, I told Frankl to start. I got the youngest Newman, little Casey, with me today. And if there's a little cough in the back and you're going, what the heck is going on? I got a sidekick today. He's not much help, although he looks cute. Regardless. It's a carbon tax. You know, when you get talking all these different things, okay, nobody wants it, everything

else, blah, blah, blah, but then you stack on, we're going to give a raise. And you know, don't get me wrong. When I worked for a large corporation, I was looking forward to a raise every year to keep up with, you know, the cost of everything. When it's them increasing the cost of everything, then taking a raise. raise break the numbers down for me break this you know like i don't know you're out in audible i'm like do they they're like oh no this may we have to we we need franco we've earned it we've done such a great job we've earned our pay raise what does it look like out on your side of the the planet because

i know what my side of the planet thinks well i i know what your side of the planet thinks too i like to think that's the same planet i'm from but let me just give you the numbers then we can kind of hobnob about them. Okay. So right now, a backbench member of parliament, along with collecting dust, is collecting $194,000 salary. Okay. A minister like Freeland or Giebo, their salary is $287,000 and Trudeau salaries about $389,000. That's before the raise. Now the raise will range between $8,100 for a backbencher, extra, all the way up to an extra $16,200 for Trudeau. Okay. So if this raise goes through, the new salary for members of parliament, a backbencher will be just over $202,000. A minister, their new salary will be just under 300K. Now, I have no idea why Freeland would get a raise when, you know, the finance department couldn't balance the budget of a lemonade stand. But anyways, the prime minister's annual salary after the raise will be about $405,000. box you say you said if this raise goes through when when will you know if it's gone through

you know like what's the timeline on this april one uh april one but look like here's the problem okay so let's start with the with the april first you're saying it goes through april first yeah but what has to happen between here and april first and forgive me because i'm like the brain is like what what am i missing here have they voted on this are they voting on it or it's just going to happen April 1? No, it's just going to happen April 1. Okay? So now let me kind of break down the politics of this.

Okay. Look, a simple piece of legislation can stop this race. The Harper government stopped the annual raises between 2010 and 2013. Obviously, it can happen again. Like, this is a rocket science, okay? Okay. But let me just break down the politics of it. So the liberal government, they could stop it tomorrow.

They could stop it tomorrow, just like the Harper government. did back in 2010. Okay. Now, the question is, is to really stop this raise, though, in reality, not just in my fantasy land where I wish they would do the right thing, but in reality, all that needs to happen is for an opposition party to break ranks and to make a real stink about this, okay? Because this could be such a wedge issue, especially trapping the current government.

who's one of their political issues is that they're so out of touch, right, and that they don't understand the hardships that Canadians are going through. So if one opposition party truly broke ranks with the rest of them in the House of Commons and made this an issue, Canadians would be an uproar. Canadians would be an uproar, and that would probably be all that it would take to actually stop the upcoming race. Now, the problem is that the, silence from all of the parties, including the opposition parties, has been deafening, right?

They're happy to look the other way, hope that, you know, the news doesn't talk about it that much, hope that Canadians don't really know that the raise is going through the same day the taxes go up so that they can all just collect bigger pay. That's the problem with it. Yeah, I'm sitting there and I'm going, you know, I don't know, I'm just maybe, maybe this is just me and my own mind. I go, conservatives are leading in the polls that go, you're going to raise the rate, you know, we're going to be in government in a year and a half. I'm just, you know,

like, I'm just being hypothetical here. And you're going to make my pay more. Yeah, I don't know if I need to make a big stink about that April. Well, we make a big stink about it at April 15th or April 2nd. Oh, we shouldn't have done that, but now it's already on the books. I'm going to get paid more in a year's time. Because, like, this doesn't, this isn't just for the liberals. This is for every MP.

Like, you know, like when I look at this, I go, what are they going to do? Like at some point, are they all just going to make $500,000 a year to be an MP? Like, is that what we're going to do? Like, is there any way, you know, I'm pying this guy, Franco? I go, why can't they have a hard cap? Like, I mean, you have a hard cap. Like, NHL players pretty much have a hard cap, right? Why can't we have a hard cap?

Now, you're a baseball guy, so baseball's a little bit different. Maybe not translates over to government. politics quite as nice because there's some people getting paid an awful lot of money in that sport but i mean why can't we have a hard cap is it because no no political party would ever do that yeah why are you asking me why politicians uh don't want to limit their own pay yes i mean like come yeah after i say that out loud you kind of you kind of you kind of realize but i'm not i'm not you know it's i'm not limiting my pay to a hundred grand i think that's pretty nice little salary i'm not limiting my grant to 150.

I'm not listening. It's going to be like a 200,000. We're going to cap you. At $200,000, we're going to cap you for these positions. And if you want to move up to here, then this is the hard cap and on and on. Why can't we have that? Well, I mean, like some type of restraint would be better than the system. Well, that's what I mean.

I'm just saying restraint. The problem with politicians is they show zero restraint. I don't care what side of the floor you're on. Yeah, I mean, because they're spending your money. Right now, now some governments are better than others, right? Like, that's just the way it is, right? The Klein government came in, massive deficits, massive debt in Alberta. And they implemented a 5% wage cut across the entire bureaucracy.

They were able to extinguish the deficit, extinguish the debt. I remember Klein holding up that sign, right, paid in full the summer of 2004, right on. So there are like some governments that do certain things better than other governments. right? And I'm sure someone on the other issues would make arguments for other ones. But let me let me just kind of talk through three further issues on the pay because I don't want to leave your listeners with the impression that this is just about symbolism. Like that's important. Like leadership by example is important. But this is actually more than that. Because number one, this year's raise is just the tip of the iceberg. This is going to be their fifth pay raise since the beginning of 2020. Okay. So their constituents go through lockdowns, go through a pandemic, businesses closing their

doors, some for good. How many thousands of Canadians were sent to the ranks of the unemployed? Then you have massive inflation where their constituents have a tough time affording the basics necessities of life. None of that stopped the MP pay raises. None of that did. Now, your listeners, they probably know Jacinda Ardern, the former. Prime Minister, what is it, of New Zealand, right? Now, I'm sure many people have different opinions. But one thing Jacinda Ardurne did is right away when COVID happened, she cut her pay, pay of cabinet ministers and top bureaucrats by 20%.

She said, look, we can't ask our taxpayers to get kicked in the teeth and for us to get higher salaries. We need to do the right thing as well. Something like that should have happened in Ottawa. okay but the second thing you know if i was going to say one thing i'd never hear on this show would be a kind word said about jacinda ardern and there it is folks franco tarzano laying it down i did not know that and there you go she isn't all bad this is my last time on the show is this my last time on the show but look hey look i'm going to give kudos on certain issues when somebody deserves a job well done

and and taking a 20% pay cut and making your ministers and top bureaucrats is no easy task So whatever, sue me. I think that's a great story to tell. Because, I mean, here in this country, it just seemed like, well, I mean, we've been watching it. We've been witnessing the leadership that is. Just continue to just run us straight into a, you know, hurtling into the side of a mountain, you know, at bullet speed. Like, we're going as fast as we can for the side of a mountain. And April 1st, it seems like it only gets worse.

Yeah. Unfortunately, that seems to be the case. So the second reason that the pay raise is actually bad policy as well is because now as like their constituents have struggled so much. MPs have are now financially divorced from the realities of the people they're supposed to represent, right? It's called the House of Commons for a reason because they're supposed to be intricately, intricately linked to the common people. Right. But the problem is, is when you have your representative living a completely different financial. life than you are in a completely different financial reality where it doesn't matter the

hardships that Canadians are going through, they're going to be just fine because they get higher pay every single year, then they aren't able to understand how their taxes, money, printing deficit, all the regulations are actually impacting Canadians because they're financially detached from that. And the third thing I just want to put in here is you might remember there was this huge bureaucrat strike in Ottawa last year. Okay. Now before they went on strike, the union bosses were pushing for these massive raises and compensation increases and they were pointing to the member of parliament pay raise as a reason that the bureaucrat should take more money from taxpayers. So if any government wants to tackle this massive debt and deficit problem that we have,

They're going to have to take some air out of the ballooning bureaucracy. But how is a member of parliament going to have the moral authority to tell the bureaucracy to take a cut when they're not even willing to stop giving themselves more pay every single year? Well, we need a leader to look at the long term of this and go, we've got to do some things that aren't going to be comfortable. You know, I think we've all watched several movies where there's like the drunk king. He's just spending money freely. it just feels like we got about, well, I don't know, several hundred of those right now that just seem to not have any clue what's going on in society.

Feels that way, doesn't it? It certainly. It certainly does. I mean, you got, well, I mean, the alcohol tax, you know, we can briefly touch on it if you'd like. I mean, it obviously goes up April 1st. I think everybody knows that every April 1st, it just keeps climbing. And there's no stop in order for that. It's going to do that every single year.

I don't fully understand where, like, where the escalator tax, why that seemed like such a good idea at the time. I'm, you know, it's like, I think all of us are like, oh, you know, we've got to pay a little bit of tax. Sure. But an escalator tax on that every single year seems a bit much. Yeah. I mean, the reason they brought it in is because they're running up these massive deficits.

Like, this is what happens when you get spending that so at a control, when you have debt that's so at a control is now. you have politicians looking under the couch cushions for every penny they can take from you. And that's why this alcohol escalator tax was brought in by the feds in their 2017 budget. But one of the things that I think most people don't even realize is just how much we're taxed. When we go to the bar, we go to the liquor store. Like your beer, your wine and the harder stuff, whenever you purchase that, about half of what you pay, more than half of what you pay for all of that is tax. just tax and and you wonder why like you go anywhere else you go down to the united states

and everything is is is so much more affordable than it is in canada right it's just tax and another issue with this alcohol tax is that it goes up every single year without a vote in the house of commons well that's fundamentally undemocratic and if there's some MPs down the street from me who think that you're not paying enough tax you know i'll fight them on it but they should at the very release have the spine to vote on that tax increase. They should have the spine to vote on a whole lot. You have the budget coming up here. I think, what is it?

It's April 16th, roughly, something like that. And I don't know. Obviously, we don't know exactly what the budget is going to look like. What have you been hearing on your end? Is there anything useful to tell the audience? Yeah, well, the usefulness comes down into just how rough of shape, the federal government's books are. So we just got a report from the parliamentary budget officer,

this independent budget watchdog that crunches the numbers in a nonpartisan way. And it looks like deficits are even higher than what they originally forecasted. Even these massive deficits that we know the Trudeau government is running, well, it looks like deficits are going up. But the key point that I wanted to talk about, Sean, and we chatted about this briefly before the show, are the interest charges on the government debt. Well, this year, upcoming interest charges are going to cost about $52 billion alone federally.

Think about $52 billion and what else your money could buy for that. But another interesting point is that that means that interest charges on the federal debt alone are going to be more than what the federal government sends to the province is in health transfers. How crazy is that? And then a couple years later, in 2028, interest charges on the government debt will be $62 billion. And that's more money than the federal government takes through its sales tax. So in a couple years, every time you go to the store and you pay the federal sales tax, every single penny from that is going to pay interest charges on the federal debt. What is that like by 2028 when you put it that way like what does that do to us?

Yeah. Well, what does it do to you? I mean, okay. So number one, that's just money completely wasted. Right? Like that's not, that's not going to build more hospitals. That's not going to reduce class sizes. That's not going to fix the roads.

That's not going to lower taxes. That money is essentially just going to bond. fund managers in Toronto because the government is servicing the debt. But like another reason that all this debt matters is how the government financed all of this debt through those pandemic years. And that's through the printing press where they printed hundreds of billions of dollars to buy government bonds, creating and every time the central bank, the bank of Canada prints new dollar or buys a bond, It does that not with a stack of a stack of cash that it already has on hand. It just does that with a click of the keyboard to create a new dollar.

Well, that's why you had this massive inflation, right? Because you had governments that locked down an economy, which means that the economy wasn't producing as much as it could. And then you had this influx of new printed cash hot off the press of the Bank of Canada, which creates too many dollars chasing too few goods. And that's why the price of essentially everything has been on the rise for the last couple years. Bank of Canada, they're going to raise or lower or interest rates. What's your prediction? Oh, they just held their rates steady.

They just held it steady. They held it steady. But look, I mean, if you're upset about the interest rates being as high as they are, and I know so many Canadians are because like mortgage payments are going through the roof where people are worried about renewing their mortgage. The issue is not just that the Bank of Canada is raising rates or has raised rates. The issue is that the Bank of Canada printed all this money driving up inflation and the federal government ran up all of these deficits, you know, turned turned out a bunch of debt.

Like that's what created the inflation that led it to the higher interest rates. So if you want to be mad at this, I think you have every right to be mad at this, but just understand that the interest rates. are not the cause of the problem. The cause of the problem was the massive money printing and the massive deficits and crazy spending that happened in Ottawa. Yeah, I was going to say the interest rates

are a reflection of what happened earlier, right? Like this is, man, always appreciate when you come on, Franco. How can people find you? Well, hey, man, I just really appreciate all the time that you've given to myself and Chris Sims. And for anyone who's looking to, you know, joining the Canadian Taxpayers Army, head over to Taxpayer.com. We've got a newsroom with a whole bunch of stories on how the government's blowing through

your cash. And we also have a bunch of petitions to sign. And, you know, let me just, let me just maybe a call to action if that's okay. So I know a lot of your listeners are probably in Alberta, probably in Western Canada, or at least that's what I assume. There's a lot of conservative MPs out there. Right. And let's give them credit where they deserve it. They have been very vocal against the carbon tax hike. They have been very vocal about the alcohol tax hike. They have been very vocal about the need to rain in or control spending and fix the budget. Now, what haven't they been very vocal about?

The MP pay race. So if you have been feeling inclined to give your member of parliament a call, give them an earful, write them an email. Now is the perfect time to do that. Maybe congratulate them if you want to on the other stuff. But, you know, it would be very helpful to push those members of parliament to stop their own upcoming pay raise. Yeah, that's, well, you and Chris Sims always, you know, you bring on these rain clouds and then you say, but here's the call to action. Flood their inbox.

They're not probably going to reach back out to you, folks. And if you got one that does, good on you. My luck on calling MPs has been not very good, not very good at all. but here's the hoping that maybe when it comes to giving themselves another raise, maybe they'll listen, maybe they won't, maybe I'm being a little tongue-in-cheek. Either way, Franco, thanks for hopping on, and look forward to the next time. I'm sure there will be some more stupidity in the government spending in the months to come. I have no doubt.

Either way, thanks for hopping back on here, and well, until next time. Hey, thanks, man.