Shaun Newman Podcast - #626 - Marco Van Huigenbos

Episode Date: April 29, 2024

Marco is a father of four, former town councillor in Fort Macleod and the spokesperson for the Coutts Border Blockade who has been found guilty on a charge of mischief over $5,000. Let me know what you think. Text me 587-217-8500 Substack:https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcast E-transfer here: [e-mail] Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/ Email: [e-mail] Text: [phone] – and be sure to let them know you’re an SNP listener.

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border blockade. I'm talking about Marco Van Hogan boss. So buckle up. Here we go. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast today. I'm joined by Marco Van Hogan boss. So, sir, thanks for hopping on. Sean, thanks for having me on again.

Well, it's good to see you. It was September 2020 when we chatted last time. I actually, I was almost shocked a little bit on that's how long ago it was, you know, because when we were talking about things, we're talking obviously about the UCP, I don't know, leadership race. Was it going on at that time? Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was the leadership race.

Yeah, and we were talking about a bunch of different things that way. We certainly talked about Coutts. We talked about a bunch of different things. And one of the things that I was literally just telling one of my good friends this morning that stuck with me from that interview was like, you know, we may be found guilty. You know, I'm paraphrasing what you said two years ago, but I want people to ask themselves, why did we go? And why were we there?

That should be the question that everyone needs to answer. Do you still feel the same sentiment, you know, not two years later, Marco, but I mean, like, you know, at that time, you know, we were talking about this idea of like going on trial and different things like that. It's been a process. Where do you sit today? And thanks for just talking on to discuss this. I know this is no longer like, oh, maybe something's going to happen, right? This is pretty serious stuff. Yeah. Well, that's a great question. And I never had the chance to go back and listen to our lengthy discussion. But I'm glad you did. And I'm glad, I guess in some ways, everything has changed, but some things never change. And,

And that position as to the seriousness of the situation, that was bound on my heart. I think the day that CBC did some investigative journalism on February, the second or third I figured out I was a town counselor attending the protest. And that was when I realized that things could become very serious for me. And that was never lost on me. And it was almost like a sixth sense going through all of this, that while there is hope, one has to have hope for a positive for a outcome that you the preferred outcome the realization and the reality of the situation was never lost on me and i went um it's it's allowed me to

in some ways do some of the things that i've been involved in the things that i've done knowing that there is a consequence but to be to to put that against the responsibility of the situation and my ability to engage and be involved and and and um i guess in some ways lead but sean that that conviction then that realization that there there are there are and there were or could be consequences and and that's definitely hit home now but the that takes second fiddle to why we were there. It's like I said on social media in the last week. It's the difference between the legal and the moral aspect of things. And that will never change for me. That conviction, if anything, has only become stronger. At the time, the protests and the demonstrations

across this great country were individual to a certain extent. People united for regarding frustrations they had and frustrations they were experienced. in their communities in relation to the mandates and the health measures and the restrictions. But what we know now, what we know now four years after COVID has started, you have to be completely disconnected from reality to continue the group think that the world participated in in that time. The information in relation to vaccines, vaccine injuries, the numerous side effects to the men's, the men's, the men's or sort of to the health measures and things like that, mental health, the health crisis, affordability crisis, the cost of COVID, those convictions now have just been strengthened by things we didn't know at that time and knowing now that the Canadians that stood up saved lives.

We were there because of our own lives and how it impacted our lives, but little did we know that by standing up and forcing government to heal, we would save lives. And that is something that makes it all worth it. And I mean, makes it all worth it. What may come? I'm not even in that yet. So, you know, I dove right into it. But that was a question in relation to where I stand and my convictions.

And they've grown stronger. They've become stronger. Guilty. Okay, according to the letter of the law. It's a narrow, narrow thing. It doesn't take into consideration why we did this. And that's part of your question. We need to, people need to understand the times we were living in at that time.

And a lot of people have forgotten. Many people have forgotten. And I understand why. Trauma is something an individual wants to, doesn't want to think about. The human nature is to think about the positive and the future and hope and resilience. And thankfully, those are traits we have as humans because otherwise we wouldn't be able to move past the trauma of society, but in some ways we can't until we address it. And that is why we have to remember why men and women, blue-collar, white-collar Canadians

were involved in these demonstrations, even though I'm not allowed to call it, or occupations, protests, blockades. They were what they were. But that's why we were there. And the minute we forget that, yes, then it just becomes an act of an illegal act. but it was so much more than that. And I understand the law doesn't interpret that. And it doesn't take that into consideration.

And I knew that going into this. But that doesn't change that when government loses their effing minds, that we as citizens are forced to stand up to that tyranny. So, yeah, that's my answer to that question and that comment I made two years ago. You know, I should always remind people. because they always, you know, like if you're the first time here, Marco, I make you go, you, you can probably remember, I make you do the, it might be a bit of a song and dance folks. I'm not sure, but I like to get to know who the guest is as they do. So if you really want to go back and hear, because it's interesting to me to hear you talk, almost two years ago, it's episode, and I'm just going to make sure I got this right. 312. That's when we, I got no beard back then. That is for sure. I'm, I'm just, you know, I'm almost two. I got less grace. That's right. less grace. And I hesitate.

I'm like, I think you got four kids, but now I'm like, I don't know, the way the, the Van Hogan bosses go, maybe you got five or six. You still got just the four? No, I still have just the four. I tease about it. But if you go back and listen to it, I think you're, you know, at that point, you had 60-some nieces and nephews. So I'm curious, is it still in that range as well?

Well, I think it was, I think the family was at the high 60s. I mean, siblings and kids and such, but I think we're, I think two years later, we've probably added 10. Well, and the reason, the reason I bring it up is, you know, like, if you're just stumbling, you know, because, you know, as the podcast has gone on, Marco, you know, it's picked up people, it's probably lost people. You know, it's just, it's a little bit of a bullet train, you know, itself. and, you know, three, what did I say? 312, we're now going to be at like 6 to 6.6. Like, it's 300 episodes later that you're coming back on.

On this side, we've really ramped up and we've been trying to talk to as many people as you can. So the reason I bring it up is I really thought the first time you were on, it gave a real good look into what motivated you. And you have a young family and you have lots of family. and that's evident in how many siblings you have and then and then and then how extensive that is. So when you say, you know, like, you know, I'm still as convicted now, you know, and I'm paraphrasing once again and I do poor job of it, even as you face the barrel of a loaded gun now. And, you know, I mean that quite literally, right? Like you're facing up to 10 years in prison for going and being a spokesperson for something that, I don't know, was it, was it 60% of Canadian?

was it 80% of Canadians cheered on. It was a lot. And in Alberta, it was probably 80% if not higher. We're all for what was going on. And now we hide behind while the rule of law says you can't do this. And yet we lived in such unprecedented times. You brought it up already on the funeral. I'm sure anyone listening to this can rattle off 500 other things that we weren't allowed to do or say.

We weren't allowed to enter this. We weren't allowed to go here. We weren't allowed to leave the country. We weren't allowed to do a lot of things. It was unprecedented. And so, you know, I think it's really important for people to, you know, if they haven't paused and listened to 312, to go hear the motivation. Because to hear you say similar things, I'm like, this isn't just some young guy who's going,

oh, yeah, and by the way, I'm just going to, you know, I'm going to go spend some time in jail, right? Right. Like, I sit here. I got three young kids. that's a heavy burden you've placed on yourself, if I may say so, just me talking to another father. Yeah, that isn't lost on me. It, like I said, in relation to those convictions, they were there.

But since then, what I've seen, and when I say seeing what I've seen in the, so the three branches of government, what I've seen in the judicial, in the legislative, and even the, the executive branch, my involvement in many campaigns, many behind the most, most behind the scenes, but some more high profile in in grassroots organizations and my involvement in the courts regarding my own legal challenges, but more so those of the Coots 4 and I mean, there's only two still in jail, but the Coots 4 brand for me sticks. It's something, you know, there's a lot of things that I don't have. I mean, I'm an individual.

I have faults, et cetera. But there's one thing I do have. And at times it's quite a negative, but I have a phenomenal memory. And we found that out in court two weeks ago. But I can't forget. I can't forget the times that we lived in. I can't forget these stories that people came up to me with at Coots. I was that person that I was the face of it right people when they went when they came to

they wanted to see they wanted to talk to me or they ran into me stories where 11 year old where parents showed up who who did who were any of any political affiliation but they showed up because their 11 year old was was having a mental health crisis because he had to get a jab to continue in sports as a 12 year old thankfully I never experienced this my mom had cancer during COVID and thankfully it all ended up well and there was a few hospital visits and and but I mean how many others in even in other jurisdictions and other provinces where the restrictions were different like in BC where if you weren't vaccinated as a spouse as a mom or as a dad or as a child you couldn't see your your relative in in the hospital you couldn't be there

to hold their hand when they died the seniors the veterans that I'll never forget. I'll never forget that. And that's what spurred me on. And I've not from a place of anger, even though there's moments of anger, but I've, you know, I was on an interview the other day with Moka, Rzinga, you might have watched that, follow him. He's a remarkable young fellow. I've really gotten to know him. And he asked me, he's like, Marco, you've always been a moderate voice. And I have. I'm not, I might be a bit anti-authoritarian. right you know I'm in Alberta of course we're a bit anti-authoritarian I mean we don't love Ottawa but I respect the rule of law in its entirety I do and I've always been diplomatic in my engagement I've always been respectful even in the freedom movement there's been a lot of a lot of a lot of a lot of infighting and my focus in some way as a frontrunner as leading the pack in some ways I I've looked forward I've looked at the authorities I've rarely looked back I haven't engaged even though there's been

opportunity for me to where I've been dragged through the mud on you know on sorts of all sorts of levels I I'm not that's not my that's not my game it's very clear to me who the enemy here is and I mean it's the elites it's the regime it's it's those who are not even those who are elected those those are those are individuals who don't even know their way half the time it's those behind those individuals. It's the age old bureaucracy. And back to what I was saying, I'll never be able to forget that. I remember these conversations like there yesterday. It's been made so personal too, right? And dragged through the courts. I've befriended the two Chrises. They call me or

Carbert calls me every day. I see Carbert once or twice or twice or twice a week. and I mean the other two have their supports and their and their families but that you know my dad said it the other day said Marco you're you're fighting a fight that will result in a life of little joy and I had a bit of a chuck I was like yeah well I can't unsee it I can't just ignore it I can't just not pick up the phone when the corrections you know correction center calls how do you how do you disengage and that's like a said, I have many faults. But I mean, that's something that it's just bound to my heart. It's a responsibility that I've not been able to shake. And in some ways, that's made me dangerous to the

establishment, very dangerous. And I think that's in part why this continued down this path and why I am where I am. Not only are they looking to make an example out of us, but they want to shut us up. They want to shut me up. And I kind of joke the other day, this is they want to, they want to bury me, but there's two things they won't be able to take away. And that's my messed up sense of humor and my voice. And that's just the short of the story. And I feel an obligation to do this, to continue to talk. That's why I'm here. That's why I'm talking to you. That's why I talk to anybody. I'll talk to any media. I mean, I've had, there's two secondary institutions in Calgary, you know, two sizable ones that they're writing a book on the

effects of COVID and the lingering effects of COVID in the political landscape in this province. And they reached out a week ago. And these two individuals are individuals that most people that I definitely don't align with politically or on the COVID narrative or viewpoint. But if we don't communicate, if we do not engage with each other, how will we ever understand? understand each other. That's why I will always respectfully engage. You know, I had a nephew phone me the other day and he says, hey, Mark, you know, on Twitter and all that, you know, those people just ignore that, hey? I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, well, all those comments.

I was like, all those comments, oh, they motivate me. I mean, I don't notice. I post. I don't, I don't engage in the trolls and all that. You see it and he just, you get used to it. After three years of this attacks. Yeah, being a duck in water, eventually you don't notice the water being. Yeah, you don't even care. You know, especially the smaller, you know, 50, 100, you know, they're just spouting off. They don't have a profile picture. They have a fake name.

The larger ones, the people you do know on the other side of the political spectrum, aisle, viewpoint, narrative, you name it. After a while, it's like, okay, you know who this person is? it's like, are we going to have, are we going to do this? Are we going to have just a respectful conversation or are we going to, you know, mock and, you know, we're going to deport you or because then eventually it's like, okay, block. Like, I'm giving you a chance here. We can engage as all burns. We can disagree. We can agree to disagree and we can remain respectful or not your choice. Right. And then after a while, it's like, but I mean, my block list is very short. It just doesn't affect me. It's like, you know,

who they are and if that's how they come across it's like why even engage with them right but anyways yeah we just took a brief uh pause folks um you know you said something that i just chuckled about you said well i'm kind of anti authority authoritarian but i mean you know or anti authority but i mean like you know we're alberton i'm like dude we literally elected a premier who's anti authoritarian right she's literally her her whole purpose is trying to stop ottawa from infringing. Now, I think a lot of us would like her to be maybe just a smidge more anti-authoritarian when it came to some of the things going on inside her province. And this is a story that, you know, I have a lot of time for Moka and others. You know, I think of the media landscape

as, you know, we can't all be what I would love more, but we can't all be, frontline journalist. You know, in a, I'm a hockey guy, Mark, so forgive me, it's hockey playoffs right now. I just think, like, if you had 12 Connor McDavid's, would you want that? Maybe, I mean, it is the best player in the world. But chances are you need, you need the guys who go and bang and crash and on and on and on.

And, you know, and so Moka has been doing exception work. I talk about all the time. He's been on the podcast before. Like, he's just, he just at the front line of everything. And he's doing this like, I think it's as boat as unbiased as you can get. He's filming. He's talking to people. Isn't that what journalism is?

And because of him, he's kept stories like yourself in, if it's my purview, I would assume so many others purviews. And he's just continued to talk. He's used, I think, your line that you just said. He's continued to talk. And by doing that, it allows for all of us to. continue to follow some of these stories that otherwise would go unreported. It's honestly why, you know, I'm like, I got to reach back out to Markle, right? I've been thinking about it for a while, but it's funny. When it keeps popping up, it's a really good reminder. So if, you know, like,

I don't care who it is out there, but, you know, keep doing what you're doing because it keeps it in our, I don't know, like Twitter's a, is a beast under itself. We don't have. We don't have many options where we can just flick on and see what's actually going on. Like it's a real problem of our society right now. And if you're not paying attention to that, one is that's a problem. Or two, it's because literally all the social medias and the news has been corrupted to a point where they can't talk to them, Marco, right? Like they can't literally bring you on to share your side of things because that would be real too hot for them. 100% agree.

Thankfully, we do have, you know, Bridge City News. Not Bridge City News is another one, yeah. They're great, but I mean, they're held to the, well, they all are. They're all held, even MoCA, they're held to the Canadian broadcasting standards in relation to things like publication bans and things like that. There was this short interview I did, I think, two months ago with Mocha after, I think it might have been, something in relation in Futs 4. It wasn't the Barbera Perry because that was just a post idea.

But it was something significant. And in a day's time, it had racked up almost 200,000 views. But Moka had to delete it. And it had to do with a possible, you know, it just violated the publication ban that was in place. And, you know, it's too risky for him, whereas I don't have a lot to lose other than maybe contempt of court charge. but yeah but at this point at this point you know and i would love your thoughts on this because i i stare

and talk to a tonne you know i just had uh tony olinick on and uh you know i've had james saury on and i'm i'm trying to think of uh others that have come on that you know um uh i think a tamara leach actually uh you know like not allowed to talk to anyone well society's a funny thing if you're not allowed to talk to anyone and you know you go well the courts will handle it and we'll get this all done but then the courts do what they do and they drag it out

and it's this little game and then maybe you get a bad lawyer or maybe you know and listen I'm just I'm speculating on this side all of a sudden nobody's heard from Marco in two years or longer and you can put any person's name to that and I go

if I ever go Marco like if they ever come from me I'm going to scream at the high heavens the entire time because don't get me wrong you can you can screw yourself that way too but at least people know it's happening whereas when you go quietly it's Raid and Soljinnitsyn's book you know everybody

just kind of went quietly and you know we thought oh it's reasonable and they just kind of drug us all off and he said if I could go back I'd just scream louder right from the start I mean that's what the chick from and I'm forgetting her name from Disney said was basically you know the one that Elon Musk is

Gia Carciano. I'll pull it up. But regardless, what she said is she would have went back and scream louder. Now, I'd argue with her that nobody would have listened anyways when it came to COVID specifically because everybody was shut down for talking about COVID. I mean, the loudest voices were shut down. The only guy who got his voice out, I mean, there was ways, but I mean, obviously Joe Rogan when they attacked him, that was a mistake, a big old mistake. But, you know, to keep talking. I don't know.

I would be curious, your thoughts. From my end, I'm like, you stop talking? I think it's a death sentence in our current world, the way that the courts are set up, the way that, you know, the ideologies have sunken deep to everything. And the fact that the public just moves on. They just do.

You wish it wasn't that way, but life gets rolling and things are busy again. And if you stop talking, then nobody knows what's going on. Your thoughts on that? I couldn't agree more, Sean. I mean, facing my, my trial, I was probably more outspoken than I should have been or then my lawyers would have liked. But again, and I've had many individuals, many like pre-pre-interviews where media or reporters are like, you know, maybe your lawyers want to, I was like, listen here, my lawyers work for me. and I've had enough experience in municipal politics. I articulate well.

I carry the message well. I can respond on the fly, right? You know, when you're doing an interview and if it's live, it's like there's gotcha moments, right? And I've had a gotcha moment. I mean, I see it, you know, even for those who do it regularly, like people, officials. You're on. Like when you're in front of that camera and that microphone and you're getting grilled, you're wrong. And I guess we can see that, to some degree, what I think it was Thursday, the interview

the Premier did, you know, you're on. I'm pretty sure she has her second thoughts on some of those answers she gave, especially after some of my responses. But I mean, maybe not. Maybe that's her new position. But you're talking the True North interview, correct? Rachel's interview with the Premier. Yeah. We may get there. We may not. I mean, it's she would have been better off saying, I have no comments, is my personal opinion. But, and I'm biased, obviously. This is personal for me.

But, and just, and sorry, just so people, people understand, because if you haven't watched the True North, you could pause it and go watch it. It's like 12 minutes long, 15 minutes long, and there's maybe a two-minute spiel. I don't even know if it's two minutes on U-3 specifically. Here's the quote I have. It's not the full one, but basically it said Alberta Premier Smith says people can't block critical infrastructure to protest no matter their political ideology.

I think that was the big, I don't know, headline, if you would, that came out of what she said. Well, that's the written version, which would have been corrected and which would have been added to because at the time she didn't say political ideology. She just said ideology. You're correct. Yeah. And you know what, Sean, I don't disagree with her one bit. Her answer is something I can agree with 100%. She spoke about the Defense Act, the legislation that Jason Kenney government put in in response to the 2020 railroad blockades. I don't disagree with her. But when you tie it to the question that was asked, it's like, where are we?

What are we talking about? Because that act is not something we're charged with, for starters. And the question she was asked was any comments or what are your thoughts in relation to the conviction of the coupes, the verdict of the Coots 3, myself, George, Alex. And Rachel had provided some background. The jury deliberated a short three and a half hour. I think it was four from being sequestered to sentencing, which means. supper included, so maybe three and a half hours. And her question, she started to answer.

And you've watched the interview. She started to. And then if you look at, you're focused on listening, but if you go back and I've had somebody in Ottawa who follows a lot of court proceedings and had reached out to me and why I engaged with often. And she had said, watch the premier. And I went back and I watched her while I listened to it. And I don't think she's agreeing with what she's saying herself, which is to me good and bad.

It's still it's good because it's like, okay, she's saying this because it's the right thing to say or it's politically correct. But it's bad because are we here? Are we at this point where now premiers are just doing the right, the politically correct thing? Have we, you know, a year, two years after, a year and a half after this leadership race gone back to the ways of 2019? Because I don't think anybody wants to go back to those ways. So it wasn't lost on me that it was a complete deflection. And, you know, like I said, she should have said, hey, I can't comment on this. or she should have said a lot, you know, the courts are independent and I have no position on this ruling.

Because the reason why she's getting asked is, Sean, if I was just a George, and I love George, but if I was just a George or even, and Alex might have been a little more, well, I don't even know, Alex is a farmer too. If I was just, if we were just three people, it would have made the news, but it wouldn't have made the news in this context. But my involvement politically has been significance. her campaigns, take back Alberta, AGMs, like I've connected with them all. And I mean all those who are elected and who sit in the ledge, the board, the executive board, locally, provincially, you know, I was in municipal politics for almost seven years. It's just I, I just, I've been there, you know, I've been at these events quite often in the back.

just I'm aware. I don't not on stage. I'm just in the back doing my thing connecting, supporting, you name it. So people know this. Media knows this. Media knows that I was, if you want to call that, I'm a UCP insider. And that's why this has got a bit more attention than then maybe than if I would have just been a farmer who wasn't politically involved, right? three farmers, three real estate agents, you name it. It still would have got some attention, but I've been out there. I've spoken out, right? I was at the POEC.

I've been at these events. It's where I met you. I met you at the Rebel APP event. Correct. You know where I was sitting that night? At a Daniel Smith table. Thank you. You know, like I also think there's interesting things about you.

that I find fascinating, right? And when I started listening to our conversation again, you know, I mean this is, I interview people five days a week. That's what I do. It's what I do for a living now. Five days a week, I have people that come on and some conversations are great, some conversations,

you know, are fine, others just leave a lasting impression. And one of the things, certainly you're involved, but two, you're not easy to write off. And the reason you're not easy to write off, is you go actually you know like you say reasonable things mark or you're like hmm you just expect fire and brimstone or you know there's no credibility to it you can see there's holes in it right like you you get talking to something you're like this doesn't make any sense like you come out of it more confused then you went in you're like the heck was that right

like that happens and it doesn't mean that the story isn't true it just means you know it's easy to write off as a population one of the things that i admire about you is you you you're a guy who has something similar to what I had to have to contend with, right? I have young kids. I'm married. I'm happily married. And I'm not going to, you know, like, I've been waiting to ask a question. I want to get through this because I really want your thoughts on it. But like, when I watch you and how you talk and how you, you seem pretty, and I forget Moka's word on it, but you seem like level. Reasonable. And reasonable. And, And you don't fit the standard.

It's kind of the Tamara Leach thing. I'm not saying you're Tamara Leach, but like you want to hate Tamara Leach. And then you listen to her talk. And people who don't listen to her talk will write her off. But if you listen to her talk, you're like, that the heck, this doesn't match what they built, right? And so there's multiple things that are at work here, right? One is you were a guy who was motivated, active, was working in your community, was showing up to the events. Wait a second.

you're sitting at Daniel's table, that seems odd. And now, in fairness, you know, guilt by association, they try and do that on everybody. But it doesn't, I wasn't sitting at Daniel's table, right? Like, so you go, there's something there, you know, and take back Alberta people who are listening to this. They know exactly who you are. And this goes on and on and on and on. And, you know, like, there's a lot that you can't just write Marco off for.

That's my thoughts on it when I watch it. They've tried to write me off. And I mean, many have tried to just kick me out of Alberta politics. The attempts have been made. And I just, I guess I stand my ground. I might give a dams kind of busted in some ways. I mean, I just, I don't care who, you know, there was this video that came out during trial.

And you might have seen it sit with Rebel, who was down at Coots. he had shared it the first year anniversary and the second year anniversary so about two months ago and it's where I'm interacting with the police liaison group inside smugglers in relation of the cattle liners and it was a pretty big contention point but what happened was after Kenny's announcement on February the 8th Kenny made the announcement we're starting to this maybe this and it was like yeah not good enough pal and our response to that was you know sharing shutting, blocking the highway, even though there had been lanes open and I'll kind of get to the point here. But we hadn't communicated that shutdown because the speech was delivered at seven and we shut it down at eight and the cattle guys ship at six.

And so 13 cattle liner showed up at the checkpoint before CP10. CP10 is the milk river blockade. So they showed up at a checkpoint to prevent traffic from coming through. and we they they they're let through we we we let them through we weren't there to hurt our own people we weren't there to hurt alberta but we were there to put pressure on emminton and well sitting on the side of the highway and honk on our horns wasn't going to do that um even though like i said some people don't agree with those tactics but we we we put pressure on them so they were left through but through over the course of that day the ninth of february it was communicated that the border

shut like you know especially to these cattle guys right the VRPs the cattlemen's association because they were putting serious pressure on us and on the RC&P and you know the kind of weight those guys throw around right so um and there was you know Alex my friend he's a cattle guy so he was getting those calls himself and I remember telling him throw that phone away like you're doing yourself a disservice I get it but it's not your decision to open and close this board that was what the government had done you can go through you can't So why would we allow live cattle through? And my brother who has this cattle field at Harmony Beef and Ballzac and then gets shipped via reefer wasn't.

Well, that's not fair. It's open or it's closed, right? The government was playing this open, close game with Canadians. Oh, you can go. Oh, you can't go because of your status, right? So we weren't playing that game. Regardless, we communicated that border was closed on the 9th. And this video articulates, this short clip articulates.

It's my interaction with the RCMP. But at the end of the day on the 9th, they come to me and they say, you know, Marco, the American shut the border. Like they shut border services down. I was like, oh, they're like, yeah, they're sick and tired of the bullshit. Open closed. They told the Canadians figure your shit out. I was like, great. It's closed.

You know, it's not our, it's not, they close it. And the next morning, the 10th at 1030, I'm notified that. Greg and Troy, the two CCMGs, are coming in and they're looking for Marco. You know, that's their contact. I was, yeah, I'll leave it at that. I mean, the courts have been clear about that. But the conversation that ensued in the next four minutes was, Marco, we got seven Catalina sitting at the checkpoint before CP10.

I'm like, excuse me, the border slows. Well, you know, they'll, I was like, oh, yeah, I see how it is. These guys got influence. Cattlemen's association can make this border. They can arrange staff this border open and closed. And it was like, this is not fair to everybody. It's open or it's closed. So we're having this dialogue.

There's RCP's trying to reason with me. They're explaining it. He's a working man. I says, we're all working man. And I'm kind of looking out at the ground as this officer's trying to convince me, trying to tell me it. He's doing his job, right? He's communicating the message.

And my comment is, you know, we won't open this border for the prime minister of Canada. Who does he think he is? And I'm talking about a specific cattle guy, like a big, he's got a hundred some thousand. He was pushing. And I knew him and he lives in Pictribute and he was a prick. It rhymes with his name, prick. But I mean, I'll leave it. I think he's out of the business now.

But these guys were not happy with us. And I didn't give a rat's ass. I didn't care that the prime minister wanted it. And with all due respect, I respect the office, but back to your question, you know, or back to your comment about I've been there, you know, I'm still here. When it comes to the right thing to do, it doesn't, you know, so that's what that was a comment I made and I explained that and they're like, oh, you've drawn a hard line. This is the government drew a hard line. That's why we're here. These are the demands. These are anyways. But back to that, that's. why I respect. I have respect for a lot of people. I give respect. There's a level of respect I give

to everybody. But there's a certain above that, above that there's respect and that's earned. I believe that respect is earned. As much as I have to earn it from from others. There's, there's, there's just a common grace that is lacking in society, but that's how I was raised. there's common grace, respect you give to all, regardless of their occupation. And I may come across hard, but I am when it comes to certain things, I'm a softty. I really, I have a soft spot for those who are struggling in society. And some people will always say, yeah, well, you know, that's a choice. It's like, well, I have an obligation to help where I can.

And they have a responsibility to do with that help what I, you know, their help to account on that end. But I'm obligated to help them. I'm not obligated to judge them before I help them. You know, sometimes when it's family or friends, you can try to work with them as you offer help. But I mean, sometimes you see the guy in the corner and you got 50 bucks and you can say, oh, yeah, he's just going to walk to the liquor store. That's on him.

That's something he will have to answer for. But I'm called to help. That's how I feel. Anyway, so I, we're jumping around here a bit. But when it comes to the injustice, when it comes to, the tyranny of that time, I didn't give a shit who you were. I wasn't backing down. And that's, yes, so then Marco the messenger, yeah, that, that was applicable, but it was much more than that. I was given the strength. I had the perfect combination

of brain and brawn, I guess, at that time to carry the message, articulate that message, negotiate, engage, but also hold our ground. Make sure that and to decide when it was the right time to leave based on what we knew at that time, right? We guns, guns, guns. That was the method. I didn't know. I knew something wasn't enough, but I mean, I just knew our message was lost and it was time to go. People wanted their equipment back. People were worried. This was not, we were there peacefully. That's a whole lot of conversation we can go into. but what I'm saying is that I'm resourceful in how I communicate. I've realized that.

People said, Marco, you're, you're a natural leader. Okay. I mean, sure, but it's, I've been put in this position, and that's not lost on me, Sean. I'm in this. I have questions. There's days where I want to just go by a cabin in the woods and disappear. I'm telling you, it's not been easy. You know, people, they only see this, Marco.

They see the defiant. Not the defiant. They see that the, you know, they see this Markle. They see this face. Well, there's other faces. There's the Marco who has four kids. There's the Marco whose family is upside down because of life and where it's at, right? There's the Markle who has had to liquidate business, who has, who many people feel has made the wrong choices.

Well, it wasn't a choice for me. It's not a choice when it's not a, I've never been able to put money over injustice. I've never been able to be bought off, which is why I've become so dangerous, which is why I've been a freaking pin in the bottom or a pain in the ass for so many. And which is why I'm still here, right? You say you're, you know, you've just been able to work through it all. I mean, I'm principal. and I make mistakes, but I've said, sorry. I will acknowledge when I've made a mistake, especially when in a moment of anger,

I've lashed out because I've done that. And I mean, you might not have seen it on air, but I've definitely done it without going into the take-back Alberta side of things. I've takes two to tangle, and, you know, you can bet we know what a tangle. But, I mean, I've had to apologize for some, the things I've done and I have and that's that's my responsibility you know when we're

talking well one David Parker yeah one of the one of the most public ones I remember was you and David Parker and I remember being like that that's interesting I mean like I don't know who Marco is if David doesn't introduce me right like I and um you know and so uh then are you two I don't know on good terms, or is it, or is it different than that? At this point, we have come to a point where, um, we're both involved and, uh, we're, we're, we just, we agree to disagree. We're not longer engaged in, in the same organizations. We're both involved in provincial politics. We may have our respective views on that engagement. And, um, um, um, so you've removed

yourself from TBA. Oh, 100%. I stepped back, but I mean, it was a long withdrawal based on without getting into the details based on just the situation and the position we're in. I mean,

media always exploits that and David is as outspoken as anybody and that was one of my struggles as, well, you know, you got to like articulate that message. I mean, yeah, it's interesting that I said this.

I said Bonnie had asked me, Bonnie Michael had asked me, or had commented something on holding MLA as the other day. How do we, Markle, you know this better than anybody. How do we get people involved? Or how do we engage people? And I just, I remember saying, well, it seems like the only thing that gets people off the couch is anger. So start rage farming. And I kind of did the whole laughing emoji.

And as much as I hate it, it's to some degree true. The only thing that gets Albert and the Canadians off the couch and evolve politically is when it affects them. negative manner. So angered, not responsibility, not duty. That's not what gets Canadians off duty in relation to anger, but I mean, most Canadians only respond when it affects them. When it affects their neighbor, it's back to this whole comment you said earlier, go away quietly and I mean, it doesn't matter. You know, the situation I'm in should have everybody extremely concerned because the precedence has been said that if you but, paid in a protest and you are not even the principal offender to an offense what they you know to the

letter of the law but if you are uh counseling if like myself and even with tamara leach and i know chris and tamara very well but this is very concerning the precedence that was set in leftbridge um last week courthouse 320 is a very very very dangerous president so you get to the thing i've been I've been rolling around in my head now for a couple weeks. And I thought about writing about it. And I just, I'm at a point, you know,

like where in our country, if you are going to follow what you believe, eventually you're going to run into the machine. I don't know there's any way of getting around it. I could be wrong on that. Did you listen to Trish Woods? Did you listen to my show? No, I didn't.

No. Well, that is her comment. And it's interesting that you say, this but Marco she's like when I called and Trishwood used to be with the fifth of state. Yes, absolutely. She's wonderful. Yes. I didn't. When did you do Trish Wood? Why did I miss that? Last week. Last week. Okay. Wednesday and Thursday. Right after. Sure. It's an hour and a half. It's phenomenal. It's been

shared by, you know, you know, you know. Well, I live under a rock, obviously, because I, I missed it. Okay. Yeah, but I'll, I'll connect you with it. But it was an hour and a half. It's a lot. and a half she's she's been recovering from some some uh health she had she broke a foot or something so she hasn't been active the last month but she just felt like she had to get this out there and we've been in contact i mean i had um i had the fifth of state do a and i mean actual cbc in my in my living room right around the time i would have done your interview and they recorded a show in my living room but that shows never made it out there and I don't know if they're waiting for something and I should connect with them.

But I'm thankful that never went out there because I was pretty vocal on some stuff at that time. But and I say thankful. I mean, I don't have any regrets, but I do worry sometimes that I get carried away, especially pretrial, which is now behind me. So it's different. But she had said, I called you, Marco 2. And I thought, you know, I was going to tell you all the jury this. or the judge that or the system that. And you said, Trish, the system worked exactly how it's designed to work.

That court was the most transparent event I've been part of. People are like, say it, come again? Yeah, the justice ran the court in a transparent manner, but the justice is bound to the system, how the system works in this country. The court was, you know, the judge had the authority to decide on pretrial applications and they didn't go in our favor. He is given that authority. We can disagree with that, but that is his purview. That's his, that's his realm.

The process, the selection process was fair. The jury was a typical left bridge jury. It was people you would meet on the street, people you'd meet in the mall, people you'd meet at the movies, people you'd meet at. Well, maybe not Gall Gardens because it's, It's a homeless encampment, but I mean, people you would meet anywhere in Leithbridge. The average, and I say this now, Canadian influenced by mainstream media. I think there was even an F. Trudeau guy there. But, and I know there was actually, because people knew his brother.

People I knew was like three times removed, which is not, which happens. It's southern Alberta. There was in the selection group, the first half, there was four people I knew. Two of them got selected. They had to declare a conflict immediately. One of the ladies goes to my church or used to go to my church. She's like, I know Mark, you can't look at me and the judge smiled like, your excuse. That's the way it works. But it was a transparent affair. Now, let's hold the bus for a second because people are going to get themselves and get their knickers all in the bind here because the system's corrupt. That or da-da-da-da-da.

Okay, that could be. There's corruption in the system. I didn't see any corruption on display in our proceedings. Do I agree with how the system operates and how these proceedings flow? No. Do you change it in the court? No. The legislators change that. That's the three levels of government. And they don't they shouldn't it. The executive and the legislative branch shouldn't influence the jury or

influence the judicial branch. But the legislative branch does direct. They, it's, it's parliament that changes the criminal code, revises it, adds to it, right? Trudeau's bail reform. That's the legislative branch. So I don't agree with our judiciary, our judicial system. But the way it currently is, that's the way it is. Now, people want to revolutionize it.

That's, that's great. That's something we have to do. That's always ongoing in all aspects of government. But this was a system we're part of last week and the three weeks before that or the two weeks before that. There was a phenomenal defense. There's many things people would have wanted our defense to do. But it doesn't work like that. The system is the judicial system operates between narrow guardrails.

And when it came down to the charge. So after the crown made their case. And then we declined to make ours, as in testifying on our part, would have just given the crown the opportunity to ask me any kind of question in relation to. So that was not ideal. So that's very normal for defendants to not to take the stand. It just makes no sense, right? Why would you give the crown information they don't have to then use against you? And once it's on the court, it's evidence in front of the jury.

But the charge that after the arguments and after the closing statements by all parties, the justice then issues his charge. It's a lengthy document that he builds. It's probably a base document that he works off of and then fills it in according to the particulars of our proceeding or the proceeding. And it's a lengthy document. It took him an hour and 45 minutes to read off his charge. But if you were in the court and if you listened to his charge, agree with the system or not that's not relevant at this point we're in the system you don't agree with

the system let's change it maybe in five years court will be different but right now this is the way the courts operate i can't change it but that charge made it very clear to me and to many in that court that there was no way other than through a conscientious side of things the jury could acquit us because well this is the definition of mischief this is et cetera et cetera and here's the five points they worked themselves through were the defendant's principal offenders if they weren't then were they this this this and it was like yes yes yes yes yes yes yes so then we go back to three hours I've seen intelligent people on that jury I've seen individuals who you know there was initially 14 jurors and they pulled two names out before the jury was sequestered for deliberations

one of the individuals pulled out worked for public public library i thought oh few thank you you know he probably left leaning leans left but there was an f trudeau guy there and i wasn't surprised people were shocked because the emotion of it right people like there's there's a lot of hope you and and i was i'd put my emotions aside because my emotions would if i ran on emotions it would be a different mark where you see and a different marker that you've come to know. And I don't need to name names, but I think you see people in situations such as I am, people who have dabbled in politics here and there in Alberta, who are far more controversial, far more radical opinion, you name it, based on,

and this is because they're emotionally, well, emotions control them more than the reality of a situation. I have it a lot. People say, Mark, we got to start a new party. Mark, we're going to do this. Mark, we're going to do that. And I engage. I say, okay. So what about this? What about that? I ask them questions. Well, you know, and I'm like, you say, well, well, every time you say, well, you know, I'm hearing, yeah, Marco, you're right. But, but what? Do you have the support? I says, because if you're thinking there's more support out there without taking support from another party, you're wrong. You need the support of those who are currently engaged. Look at the whole. UCP or the PC Wildrills merger. You couldn't just pull new support to create your own party and leave it. No, you had to find that support from the current, from the conservers in this province who are involved. And you can always get more people involved and take back Alberta and other APP, other groups, they've been doing a phenomenal job there. But there's a lot of buts to a lot of this and emotions, if driven by emotion, you will do things that aren't grounded in

And I can't do that. I'm I never went to a protest before Coutts because I'm just such a I'm an optimist, but I'm such a realist that I'm like, to what end? To what end? I was a municipal politician. I was involved in provincial politics before Coutts. To what end? What's the purpose? Makes you feel good?

Great. Well, guess what? I'm too busy for that. I'm too busy to to fool myself that. slow rolling somewhere and I mean I'm not dissing that this is for me

this is my personal I get what you're saying I'm not here slamming those who are on the side of the highway that's not what I'm doing but for me and I said this and this came out in court I think it came out in court

but I made it very clear because I had hoped to go to Ottawa when Tamara Litch when the convoy rolled through Calgary Okotokes Sunday and then onwards to Ottawa by that Monday.

Into my head I was going, but I had a three-be-fold baby at home. So that conversation never happened. And obviously when I heard about Coots, that made a lot more sense. But I remember having this discussion with my co-accused, my best friend Alex, who's 20 years my peer. I said, Alex, we're shutting this down, otherwise I'm not interested. And I thought we'd shut it down for six hours like they do up in B.C. And these logging roads and we'd get arrested.

and we were just that angry. That was well we were prepared to be arrested. I could have never imagined 18 days later. And then the role I played on how it's changed my life and continues to change my life. And I mean completely change it other than some family side of thing. You know, I've four kids and my dad, all of that. But my position was we're going there to block it. Otherwise, I'm not interested.

I got way too much things to do on a beautiful January the 20, on Saturday, January the 20th, January the 29th, which I didn't know what the weather was going to be, but it was like 10 degrees. And I don't know if you know, because were you in Ottawa, Sean? I was in Ottawa. Yes, I thought so, yeah. So you were, you had just rolled it to Ottawa on the 29th. But I mean, that was my position. I'm a realist.

I realized that without bringing it to this point, there was no way Edmonton cared. And that was the battle the whole time. That was where many, you know, some individuals, especially those who were involved, they said, We never would have got past day three past day three without Marco. I'm a strategist. I was pulling that message. I was engaging with the RC&P, but I knew that if we pushed too hard, we were going to force the arm of the RC&P and they were going to smack us.

You know, they're going to bring in 500 people. They're going to arrest us systematically. They're going to total trucks. If we wouldn't engage, there's some people, don't talk to the RCMP, don't engage with them. You know, they wanted to build dick trenches or build walls. and it's like, uh-uh, our fight is not with them. That's not why I'm here. That's not why I'm here.

But, I mean, there's a lot of deferring opinions. So while doing, while maintaining and not, you know, while ensuring you didn't force the arm in the RCP, we had to maintain enough pressure so that Edmonton actually hurt us and realized we were there. We were pain in their neck, which happened, right? Coots was the flame that became a burning fire, a bonfire, a bonfire. still is to some degree but there was a revolt you know there's protests across the province low rolls there was mleys who were full on they were they were they were what's the term they were opposing kenny they were they were angry right so it was a group effort even though many didn't agree with the tactics and there's things that happened that i didn't agree with and that i

ended up having to deal with, you know, the tractor event of February, the night of February the 13th. And I don't agree with what the RCP did with the excavators. And I mean, I was fully involved in all of that. But it all happened for a reason, Sean. And even our mistakes worked in our favor. And that is something that's not lost on me. And that's, again, back to that conviction. But that's a... Well, you're re-imported. So I come back to, you know, this question. I've been chewing on. And I think you're, you're,

what, what you certainly had over me when I went to Ottawa, I was naive, you know, I, I, I, , I,

I, I, I, we're gonna have a, we know, whatever, that was, a whole hum. And I didn't realize

the gravity of the situation. And, um, one of the things you, you, you, um, are articulating quite well,

is you understood the gravity. And you also understood, in order to go, You had to do it in a right way that caused pressure, but not too much pressure, but that was what had to happen. It wasn't, let's go mess with the cops. It's like, we got to put pressure on the government because the government is the one that can do what we need them to do immediately. And I guess it comes to, you know, my thought I've been wrestling with, you know,

because when you put it that way, there's been plenty of times in Canada history, certainly the world history, where people have peacefully non-complied. And I go back to the Saskatchewan farmers. an Alberta rancher was told to pay for, well, this is Alberta, was told to pay $4,000 fine or face 64 days in jail for driving across the border to donate a bag of wheat to a 4-H club in Montana. I think that's, I think, and then he got pardoned by Harper, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know like you got one of these guys in your backyard, Rick's Crankman, good friend of mine. So there's a whole bunch of the, and so they faced it in their time.

And I guess the thing I've come to and I've been chewing on, and I want your thoughts on it. is when you have deep-seated beliefs that something is wrong, COVID for a lot of Canadians was it. And now there's a whole bunch of, you know, the eyes have been opened on a whole bunch of things that are going on that are not good. But I'm like, okay, so you got your belief, you know, you better get, you better get firm in what you believe, right?

You better find a way to communicate it the way I think you're doing it because, you know, people can get frustrated with you, but I don't think you've said anything. And you've almost said things, you're like, oh, man, I can't believe he's saying that. You know, like it's been interesting. But you're, you're going to go, you're probably, if you go up against the machine for your beliefs, you're going to go to jail, they're going to kill you. Or you just got to realize your value set doesn't match what is going on in society,

and you just need to leave. All three of those are cataclysmic to one's life. And I'm like, that is a heavy thing to chew on. And I'm curious if you would agree or disagree with my assessment. but I look at it and I go, when going, when you're talking about like, you know, like a slow roll, well, what's it going to do? I have things I need to do as a father and, you know, in a family life and things like that. If we're going to go where are we at in the belief and realizing if we do this, these are the consequences. Because it is something you imparted on my brain two years ago, roughly, is that you understood back then this was a real possibility.

Would you agree with my assessment of like, you know, if you're going to go against the machine, here's what you should understand. Jeff, Jeff, jail, death, or just leave because maybe their assessment or their value structure no longer resembles what you hold near and dear. Or maybe is it like you can't do that? I don't know. Your thoughts on it. Because I've been wrestling this one and rolling around in my brain for quite some time.

Well, I'm going to start with the last one, the easy one. I mean, I've thought about it. I thought about I could move back to Europe. I mean, when we immigrated in 1996, North America was 10 years, five years behind in social issues, fashion, you know, Germany, Holland, they've been leaders in industry ag for a long time. Sure. but there was opportunity Canada was a land of opportunity and in some ways it still is like let me be very clear here in some ways it still is it's it's less every day I mean in relation to the economics the our economic outlook is bleak politically bleak socially I mean

there's there's there's a lot of things an individual can do but it's not it's not to Canada of 20 years ago, 10 years ago even, and five years ago, this really started to ramp up. And I mean, we could even say since 2015, since, you know, sunny ways, sunny ways. But, I mean, it wasn't, it didn't all escalate in the manner it did until I'd say 2018, 2019 after that second, second, his second term. But I'm not a runner, Sean. I'm not a runner. You know, I mean, I can. Well, and if I may.

The thing with leaving, the thing about the people that are leaving, right? They're like, I just can't do this. Is the reason is, like, the thing I think about that is, if I leave, if I'm going to turn my brain off, no. You go back to, you go back to your home country, right, where your heritage is. It's like, you think they want me, Sean? Hey? You think they want me over there? Well, I'm, I'm the Dutchman in Canada.

Well, I'm a Canadian, but I mean, no, we're, we're, we're Dutchmen because we're, but you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're. You're making my point for me. You go back to anywhere. It doesn't matter where. You're going to see the problems going on. And you've already talked about your convictions, which is like, well, I got, I can't turn away from who I am. That'd be lying to myself. I've done enough work on myself on this side.

You start doing that. You're going down a dark road. So I go, the leave thing almost becomes like, okay, well, I guess I could leave. But then, like, you know, because once upon a time, my heritage came over here and started a new, life and they left. And so the reason I put it in there is it's a real possibility. In Canada, especially our two provinces, Saskatchewan, Alberta. Like, this is where, where a ton of people came from. They fled. They came here to start a new life, a better life. So it is a real possibility. It's a serious possibility, though, if you're a family, man, you're talking about uprooting family

to go try and thing. But then to act like you're going to be any different anywhere else, I think it's kind of laughable. And where? Where? You know, I mean. Agreed. South Africa, elsewhere, you know, countries where there's less government, but you got to live with a gun beside your bed. And I mean, we're coming to that here too in a different way, but, you know, maybe not the same way, but there's there's more freedom in some ways and there's less freedom in other ways, right? You know, a lot of people in the whole Russia, Ukraine, and I don't want to go into this, but they're like, oh, Putin's a good guy. And I'm like, okay, Putin's a good guy to his people. But if you're of the mindset, I says, my friend Alex, like, you know, Putin's standing up to the world order and all of that. No, Putin is.

And maybe he is. But, I mean, it's, it's a geopolitical fight that's been going on since 1991. Or before that, actually, since 1947. actually when Roosevelt, Stalin and Churchill, they were working together against the Nazis. And then very quickly with the, when Stalin realized the Americans had nuclear bombs, things just went completely south, 46, 47. And since then, American foreign policy has been shaped. It's still that expansion, a colonist, colonist style foreign policy. It's about control.

And when somebody else does it, it's wrong. I don't, I'm going into it. I don't want to go into. What I'm saying is that if you live in Russia with the anti-authoritarian mindset that you, me, Alex, have, you're no friend of Putin. Trust me. I can promise you that. You know, you're going to end up in the gulac.

Like, you think that you get to be a political dissident in Russia because you like Putin? Come on, man. This guy's going to throw away the keys and nobody's going to care. Well, and. And as I think more on this and explore this idea of leaving. with you because certainly I'm not saying leaving's bad. That's not what I'm trying to say. I'm saying it's a real option and lots of people

have been exploring it. But if you kick the can down the road, and this is just, I'm spitballing here, so forgive me, but I'm enjoying this. If you kick the can down the road, actually what you're doing in theory is you're pushing the problem down to your children or the next generation.

Because eventually if you're wired a certain way, there's a good chance that you're your kids are going to be wired a certain way, and they're going to see the problems in society. And then they're going to have to speak up and on and on this goes. Eventually, you draw the line. And when you draw said line, then it comes to the other two that I, you know, that history has proven out, death or jail. I, you know, like Solgen-insin has written extensively on this. And I don't, I think when you're, I don't know, coming to terms with what's going on in society,

that's one of the things you've got to come to terms with is like and and i might argue that's why there's been a huge shift to people turning towards you know from where i stand on this podcast christianity because it gives you peace of mind it it just solves so many problems that are going on in the world and once you have that rock to stand on that foundation it's like well you know the government is doing wrong things here we all know it we just we can't be bothered at times which is really troubling but also understandable because you know I can't I can't go harp on people when five years ago six years ago certainly a decade ago I was off gallivanting and I couldn't care less about anything you

could have told me the the world was was about to explode and I would have been like well let's celebrate the last day you know like I don't know like I was and so for me to go harping on everybody isn't isn't the right thing it's just now where I'm sitting, I go, if you're going to stand up, I want to follow somebody who has the same convictions as I do, which is you better have something firm because you better realize, and I guess I'm rounding this out and I'm looking for your comments as I go along is one of the things I admire about you is you're not 70 years old, Marco. You're not 20 with no kids. You're a guy who's roughly in the same stage of life as me. And I admire that because you,

I believe realize what is the stake here as you've been convicted? And they're trying, you know, like, will it be 10 years? Man, if it's 10 years, like there better be a riot in Alberta. I'm not condoning a riot, but. There would be. I mean, it won't be that. But, I mean, it could be two, it could be six months and two years. And that could cause a riot, too.

You know, there is worries both civil unrest. I mean, Edmonton is not, they're watching it. And as they should, I am the guy, the Dutch. that brought tractors to Coots. So, I mean, pretty dangerous, right? Yeah, you're dangerous. That's also why the Dutchman wouldn't want me back. They got enough of those guys down there.

They don't want any other guys that know how to drive tractors. But you're right. I was getting to that earlier, and I got off topic in relation to your comments and Trish's comments that she said, I was going to say something you wanted to hear. And then I got into the whole conversation about court and the transparency. But I said, Trish, according to the letter of the law, the way the law stands in Canada today or last Tuesday evening, I'm guilty. People like, come again? I said, yeah, I'm guilty.

They didn't take the morality of the, of the protest. They didn't take COVID. They didn't take candy. They took nothing into account. They took simply the letter of the law. You cannot block critical infrastructure. So by doing that, you committed mischief. You're guilty. Simple. Yeah. I can see that. I can take the emotion out of it. I can understand it. Yes, you're right.

Now, that's like I said, I had made the statement coming out of court. The legality, morality, morality of her country are no longer aligned. And that got picked up by a few individuals. And my friend Brian Pector phone me the next morning. He said, Marco, I'm writing a blog about this. And he sent it to me 10 minutes later. He says, I just, me and Carolyn, just wanted to phone you and encourage you and your wife and kids. and because I had met them at a rebel event, one of the rebel events where we both spoke and we went off for supper and we connected, right? And he's, you know, he knows, right? He's the last living signature. Yeah. Yeah. Well, once again, he's been on the podcast multiple times too. Yeah, he has been. Phenominal guy. Outspoken. You know, he's got fire, he's got a fire burning in him and I love that. But Trish said, your answer surprised me. And it made me really, realize we are at a point and people need to realize this.

If there's one thing that we get out of this conversation today, Sean, and I think you know this because you've said it, which is why I thought you listened to Trishwood podcast. What people need to realize is that if you stand up to government, if you intend to stand up to government, if you do, if you challenge the elites, if you challenge the regime, and I mean the people behind the people behind the people, the people who pull the people, the strings who build laws, who implement laws, who control the executive. The executive is the bureaucracy. If you do that, you're foolish to think there will be no consequences. You are foolish. People are surprised were found guilty. Trust me, it's not ideal. I talked to Chris and Tamara

and I talked them both. I've seen them both. I went to, they both came down, actually. They both came down actually. I mean, I've seen them both in the last three weeks. And I've really, at first, the whole rush and, you know, the whole everybody's connected, that whole thing, I felt it wasn't beneficial to connect with Chris and Tamara because all Coots and Ottawa, they're connected. It's like bullshit. There's no communication between if there is, you know, the leaders and the leaders, you know, being there's nobody appointed or anointed, but I mean, the people that were leading and the people that were leading, there was no connection. But I mean, we've really connected over the last year. And this sets precedence. This

concerns them, but they're also realizing that they're in a fight of their life for their, you know, not for their life, but in the fight of their life. Maybe one day it will be for, it will be for how our lives are, are lived, but I mean one day it might be for the aspect of life. And in some ways it is. But people need to realize that if you, if you do what I've done, and I mean continue to do. because what I did there was significant, but what I did and the continued to do after was even more significant.

And I feel that's also why these charges came, six, seven months after the event, two months before our first podcast, or before our first show, is because I've continued to speak out. I haven't gone away, like not even in the least. And I continued to challenge Jason Kinney. The first month after I came back,

I was invited to a private event, 50 people in Leithbridge with the Premier. I was invited by John Borerst, who was the Southern Director here at the time, the position that Sarah Lynn and Albertvin here and now hold. I believe, are you in the South or are you in Central, Sean? Central. Central, right. Yeah. So you're Abbeville, Abbey and Alville, correct?

I believe so. Yeah, yeah, you believe so. Anyway, I interview all those people before the last AGM. But when you, you know, sorry, I declined at that time because I never hated Kenny. I never hated what he was doing, but I never hated the man. And I don't, I don't operate that way. It's not what I believe. I severely dislike my prosecutor.

I mean, it's on that line. But I mean, it's mutual. And, but I didn't hate Kenny, but he had lost the moral authority to govern. there was there was months before coots where i was like okay you know he's redeemable you know like i hope he i get it the pressure you know what's going on no after coots after the name calling after everything that happened there was a red line it was a red line and he had crossed it and they you know he was in facing his leadership review at that time leaving into the april in-person red deer event which turned into the may mail-in-valid event which

he didn't lose, but I mean, he did because he was forced to resign because he didn't get enough support. But I was done with the man. And I believe that there was a reason why I wasn't charged initially. And there was a reason why I was charged after and those who were closest to me, those who were in the videos with me. And that's Alex and George. Alex's crime is in some to some degree being my friend. as much as he was committed to the cause as well. But, I mean, he didn't do any other things I did. And that may reflect in sentencing. But if people think they can challenge, this is what I want people to get out of it.

If they think they can challenge the narrative, the power structure currently in place, the status quo, the elites, the regime, I can go on without repercussion. Give your head of shake, guys. give your head a shake. This is the reality. Clear your eyes. Clear your eyes.

A system is built to sustain the system. And the crown is there to. You're answering, you know, I'm glad I brought it up with you. Because to me, the fact that Trish brought up something similar just means there's a whole bunch of podcasters, most likely, I'm going to assume, that are seeing the same thing and realizing the same thing. And that is, you know, we're at a time in society where there might be two ways to change this. I, you know, I'll give maybe two ways. One is politics.

But what do we all hate about politics? And I assume you've learned this. It is a dirty game. One might not even argue the longer you're in, the further you corrupt your soul. I don't know how you can. So all I'm pointing out is danger, you know, like you go into politics. trying to change the system. Have fun, right?

Okay, so what's the other option? Civil disobedience. Okay, you want to change the system that way? Well, you're going to equal probably jail or death. But having the clear conscience of, you know, I'm doing what is right. And living with yourself, you know, like having that, you'll be able to withstand whatever the world throws at you, I would assume.

And where I sit is that and being a family man, I'm trying really hard, Marco, to open up some different conversations with my family so that they understand or maybe even begin to align themselves on the same rock that I'm standing on. And once again, that's faith. Because I, I, I, you know, When I drill down to the deepest things of this, the darkest, I don't know, the darkest, because I find light at the bottom, right? To me, at the bottom, I found Christianity. I found God. And you go, at the bottom of this is good and evil.

And, I mean, we can, we can, you know, you can laugh at that. You can scoff at that. You can do whatever you want with it. And I'm not saying every politician is evil or anything like that. But there are good and bad, and they are influenced. And once you find your rock to stand on, my only, suggestion as if you're married and have kids is you get your family to stand on the same rock

because with that you can endure any storm that comes at you. Yeah, yeah. And even and Sean, even times friends and family may forsake, all you have is your faith at times. And I may be there may come

a time where that is all I will have. My future is looking there is a real possibility that my future involves time alone on the upside to write a book that I haven't been able to get to. So there's that. And I mean, I've said this enough times now that people are going to hold me to it.

So that's, we'll see if we get to that. But there's times where family, and I mean, I have an extensive family, but even my own, and I mean, my family, my own family, my siblings, they don't understand. They do, but they don't. They have not experienced. They haven't lived. They haven't walked in my shoes. And I know this because I also don't understand others. But I know enough that and I speak to some individuals who have done things, you know, some of the coupes for where people were angry or this. And I says, people, I have not walked. We have not walked one step in the shoes of said person. Now, a person has to deal with the consequences of their decisions. That's not like likewise, right? I'm dealing with that. But a lot of people have a lot of things to say about others or people have a lot of things to say about me.

And they say, oh, there's choices. And I've explained this earlier in the show. It's not much of a choice for me. It's the life I'm living and it's who I am. It's now changed me. It's shaped me. I don't believe in coincidence in any of this. And even though I don't have the 50-foot-thousand view today,

there's a reason for this. And I know this because I know what Quds was. And I know that I struggled with those same questions, the same struggles at that time when CBC identified me as Formicouetown counselor. And that was the news of the day in the province and even the country. and I was taking a significant role, but I was taking it in the background.

I'm, I decided when I was on camera, unlike a lot of other individuals who were on camera. You know, Rebel was in the event, but I really focused on what I was saying, when I was saying it, and I built these addresses, these press releases. But I made that, that decision was something I had to make. And at that time, the biggest struggle I had was I'm on a highway. And I'm, the protest is legal, but there is. illegal elements to the protest right not everything was illegal the smugglers the pro it's it's legal but I made it I for an oath as a council I had a

responsibility to my community I had a responsibility to as as somebody who was in a position of influence outside of my community and I really struggled with that and I was asked about that mark how can you or can you be involved in this? What's your explanation? And I was able to come to that piece. And I took that decision was made. I made that decision. But I was able, I received, I believe I received guidance at that time. And I know this because I mentioned earlier, I had a three week old, my youngest was three weeks old. And Elizabeth was postpartum. And what was a comment in leaving, I might not be home tonight.

Was now in day five, day six and would turn into 18 days. That was not planned. And so understand the situation at home. Understand the pressures of the media. All of a sudden I was identified, my business was identified. Email started rolling in through our website. Threats. I mean actual threats.

There was a file open at the local. St. Pete attachment. My family had to leave their home until I came. They wasn't safe. My, my dad and my father-in-law stepped in while they, I phoned them. They said they're not, they're not staying at home. You got to take it serious, right? I mean, people, it was so polarizing. The political divide was like the Grand Canyon. It was so long. So, so anyways. Still is. It still is. It still is. But there are bridges built across, small ones. rickety rickety uh rickety bridges anyways um i had to decide under pressure from different angles was i doing the right thing and there was one example there was one situation that made it very

clear to me and that was elizabeth seeing that article that cbc article and in that article sorry not that article there was an additional the next day or something cbc came out with potential consequences, right? They're going to look into, okay, these guys are in the eyes of the public, in the eyes of government, or not the public, in the eyes of government, it's illegal. These are the repercussions. These are the possible scenarios, jail time, 10 years. Wife reads this, laying in bed one night, postpartum, owns me. She's losing it.

I mean, she's distraught. And I remember laying on in my trailer, and that was that, first week minus 30 on or beside that highway you know it's it's it's it's tough out there it's uh ottawa was tough auto was cold but i mean we were in the middle of nowhere everything had to get hauled in and i mean the rcmp had us blockaded every gravel road onto highway four was a checkpoint they were isolating us i mean we weren't starving but it was a struggle the diehards were what was left after week one um and i remember laying there taking that call and realizing that I had to go home that I had a family first. I had a wife who

wasn't doing well who was, when I said, postpartum. She was, she was freaking out. And I had, I had kids. I had a responsibility there as well. And regardless of my responsibility at that time, which was a lot less than what it would turn into later in the blockade. The last week was, yeah, I mean, we won't get it. That's a whole different story. But, and I remember, and you mentioned your faith, and I remember alone in my master suite in my camper, you know, I had my friends in the bag. I mean, it's four or five people sleeping in that trailer, but three sleeping bags, clothes on. It was not a fun situation. And I had to, I had to, you. I had to, you. I had to, I had to make that.

That decision was something I had to make and I couldn't. And I did. And I thought I couldn't leave at that moment. It was two and a half hours home. But I thought, I went to sleep or sorry, I was laying in bed realizing that tomorrow morning I would have to inform the people around me. People that had looked to me, the people that I was helping out. And I mean, I was as committed as anybody that I had to go.

and that regardless of the need and regardless of the cause, I had to go to my family. And, you know, you know, this is people can say, oh, you know, a person gets on their knees and, you know, that's how history defines things. And I didn't because that would have meant that was freezing my knees off. But, I mean, I prayed and I struggled with that. And that's how I would have fallen asleep. And I mean, the little sleep I did get. And the next morning, I got up and made my way over to the smugglers. for coffee coffee was always on and and uh i will you know i had ended last night's con the night before

the conversation the night before with elizabeth with a i'll call you in the morning like we'll touch base and that's going to determine where we move where we go forward from this i mean i had very little words i had a distraught wife on the other line and i had very little words i had very little i could say to comfort her at that time but she called me the next morning about 9, 9.30. She said, is there anywhere to stay in Coots? I said, and, you know, with a child, right? With a one-month-old child.

And I was like, yeah, yeah, I think there's this diner and there's a bunch of rooms, and I wasn't staying there, but I knew people had been bunking up and laying like, it's warm, it's beds, and these people support the cause. In this cafe, somebody anonymous donors had. pull them, open up a tab, all the food is paid for. So people could eat there over the course of those 18 days for free. Like, I mean, 15,000 liters of diesel came from red deer. And like the don't, you know this, how Ottawa people donate it.

Canadians gave. And I said, yeah, I think there's this, this place. It's, you know, and at this time, I had but to ask. There were, there were people that realized what I was doing. and a lot of people, like I said, there was no anointed, elected, or appointed leaders in Coots. It wasn't how it went. But the core group knew the role that I played, and even the world came to know me, a former MacLeod Town Councilor in Coots, and some had opinions on that, obviously.

But even the protesters came to know that, and they started to look up to me. They knew that I was somebody who understood the system, who was engaged, who, like I said, carried the message. So I very quickly became that individual, even though the decision to leave or to stay was always a group decision. And I think it only was really decided, you know, voting on two or three times. A lot of other decisions happened. A lot of without group involvement, right? People say, oh, there are no leaders. Social media have said that there's been no leaders.

Okay, that's fair. But I mean, eggs come from the store, right? You know, I remember asking people who were there. I said, so the food was phenomenal. Oh, the food was amazing. I was like, right. And we bought it at the store. No.

No. I had to negotiate. I had to stand toe to toe and negotiate every leader, every basket, every truck. Every, it was a, it was a, it was a, it was a, it was a, it was a, it was a, it was a, it was a game, a high stakes game. And I mean high stakes, the pressure. That's what I did. It came out, things came out in court that George and Alex never knew. And they were like, now we know where you were and what you were doing. Because I did all of it alone. Looking back, I shouldn't have. I didn't. I wasn't trained in this, right? The RCMP have two to communicators.

All decisions gets made further up the line. I was like the RCMP testified. to Marco, when the decisions were made, Marko had the ability to make sure these decisions were executed. I did that. I mean, little ones, this truck here, open that, things that didn't need group approval. The only thing that needed group approval was, I'm leaving, are we staying? Are we blocking? Are we not? I mean, they didn't need to know more tractors.

They didn't know who was driving the tractor or whose tractor was. It wasn't relevant. It supported the effort. It supported the effort of the blockade, and that's what mattered. Everybody pulled their way. There was people that once that truck came through those lines, I didn't have to worry about it. There were three or four guys that were in charge of fuel. They were, they dealt with the logistical challenge of filling up all these trucks and all the campers.

That was there and Jerry cans. But I had to make sure it got through the line. And I mean, I had to do what I did. And it came out of court that I threatened to shut it down. I threatened to do this. I threatened to do that. Anyways. So the wife had called.

I don't want to go down too far of a rabbit trail with this, but I had but to ask. There were individuals that if I needed something, they were running. Guys, can you guys fill up my truck? I got to run back to milk river. I had the ability to traverse freely. I guess that was a perk. Who worth it, right? But I mean, they would.

Guys, is there, you know, can you guys figure this out? And I remember asking, is there room in this? cafe, this is bed and breakfast, whatever it was. And they're like, no. But within five minutes, two guys said, you stay in our room, we'll stay in your camper. I was like, no, no, they're like, yes. Because I had asked, they were like, why? Well, that evening, my wife came down and she stayed two days.

So back to the point of the story, I was facing a dilemma where I had a responsibility at home. and it superseded the very important and the very critical responsibility I had in Coutes. And I had made a decision to leave that I would probably leave. You know, there was a phone call in the morning. And that phone call made things so clear to me that, and that, you know, it was such a conviction and it was such an answer to prayer as much as a struggle in relation to questions I was asked by fellow counselors, other counselors, friends in the legislature

at that time. Mark what's going on, right? There was no official comms, but there was comms. I knew people. And it made it very clear that this was where I needed to be and that God would make things well. And that has back to that peace of mind and that serious. conversation you're having with your family and the rock that you build on the rock that i build on is not the sandy ground of government it is you know as an imperfect sinner because that's what we are to have that faith and that have that knowledge that god is in control and that we may not understand his plan and it may not align with what we have planned or what our plans are but that he will make things well and i mean it's also knowing and understanding this world it's a fallen world

it's a it's not going to get better sean i think you know that i know that if you read the scriptures it doesn't mean it's going to be worse everywhere it means there can be you know there can be alberta could be blessed for taking a stand-offer things. Canada could become a prosperous country for for where what it stands on or even a community can do well better than the next community because of because of the decisions they make, which also works the other way in relation to some of the things Canada has experienced in the last 10 years. It's not for not right. We're we're shedding innocent blood daily the unborn. We're you know are we surprised where our country is when we look at where we are morally as a country

but anyways that says I don't want to go down that too far but for me it's knowing that this world is a fallen world and it's going to get worse but nowhere does it say that you just have to watch it happen and that responsibility is bound on my heart

and I mean I've sacrificed and maybe that's not the right turn I've given lots maybe too much I've got it wrong sometimes. I've had to backtrack. I've had to fix mistakes every day. And I mean, but...

You know, I apologize for cutting you off. I just, to me, you're showing a way for how men, I hope, are hearing, you know, because, you know, we've said different things and we've talked about different things over the course of an hour. It's closing on two hours, I guess. And one of the things is like you're having to wrestle with large things. And I think, you know, if you're a family man, you have to wrestle with large things. Because you realize what's at stake. What's at stake is your children, my children, having to take over where we're leading them.

And where we're going right now is a dark future. And so you've taken a stand. And I, you know, the thing I wrote down is it's not your, it's not your load to bear alone. And what I, you know, what I hope men specifically hear from this, you know, whether or not they take my word for it, is whether you read the Bible or I always, I always pick on, I always, I guess maybe applaud Jordan Peterson because he helped me right at the start, right? Clean your room. And you think that's such a stupid thing. but you know you clean the room of your soul and then you start to go to work on on just your household you know if all the men started doing that all the family men we you know that's a type of civil

disobedience you can't beat out of a culture that is what is Canadians are made out of whether they realize it or not we've kind of been docile to sleep until COVID and um I listen to your story and it's heartbreaking because like you know you're you're paying not the ultimate but close to it for for standing up for a lot of what a lot of us believed in and thought and i just go if if men are hearing anything it's like get to work on yourself get to work on your family because the fight ain't over you know this isn't over this this this this hopefully uh you know um armageddon isn't tomorrow right and and people will all jesus is back then i go fair but I mean like I like to think we got we got plenty of time here what are we going to do with it what are you going to do with it

yeah well and you're right Sean and there's there's that side to it I hope that well I mean government is looking to and I say government the system is after me they're looking to make an example out of me I think they'll fail I think they will, I think the opposite will happen. If you look at history, you know, if I get sentenced to three years, they're going to make a martyr out of me is what they're going to do. And I mean, I realize one thing, and I realize that I can hold a conversation. I can, I have a story. I'm respectful, all these things, and they've now given me a platform.

I can't ignore that, which is, you know, I'm pretty sure the premier's office is, isn't necessarily happy with me in the last couple days. But it's shared. I'm not happy with her comments. People say all. I was going to say. They're upset with you. They're upset with you.

The guy, the guy who helped Coots be what it was to get all the mandates relieved off of a province, who then helped get said person premier. I was, I was a moving part. There was a lot of people. But we all were. But we all were, right? I like to, I wasn't this giant,

to, I wasn't like this giant vehicle, but I go, but I played my part, right? We all played our part. That's how democracy is supposed to work. We all played our part. And now one of the parts is paying a price for an illegal activity. Sure. But let's go back to those couple of years. How many illegal activities were going on then? Thank you. And I've said this. I've said this in my interview with mocha i've said this with rebel i've said this with um other mainstream platforms i'll i'll take the accountability that's being asked of me i will i'll wear it i'll if anything it puts me in a if there's a lot of people that feel that i've wronged the province or that that that didn't agree with the tactics and they're like, well, you know, you shouldn't have done that or it's like, okay.

But in a way, in some way, it vindicates me. It's like I've done my, I've paid the price. I haven't yet, but I mean, I'm in it and I will. I'm not a runner. Like I said, I'm not going anywhere. But where is the accountability on the other side? Because now let's talk about the whole picture. We've talked about the legal where I'm in the legal. The moral is what's what's driven me. It's what's driven you. It's what's driven all of us in your own way, each in their own way. Not everybody can do what I do. I can't do what you do. And I'm telling you your voice, and I mean as as to what you do, that voice, it's critical in today's day and age to shed light, to bring that, to bring individuals myself and others to the to the forefront.

It's critical. You will, you will, there will come a time while they will try to censor you. haven't already platforms probably have but I mean the government might attempt I mean so we all participate but um lost my train of thought here but oh right but to in relation to those you know we now have court rulings the Ingram decision the Mosley decision you know federal court federal justice mausley in relation to the the implication of the act being unconstitutional the ingram decision uh rebecca ingram versus the liberty government you know yeah we got a whole lot of information it was just a technicality to some degree and the pastors and chris scott and all these guys had their charge of thrown out but

where is the accountability for those in positions of responsibility and authority there is none So that's where we're offside. We're offside as to rules for the, but not for me. We're offside in relation to a two-tiered justice system. You know, we can go back all the way from 2020 railroad blockades. We can go back to the events or the acrooots, the logging, where they disabled, where they vandalized logging equipment in BC. We look at the protests now.

We look at this serial protester blockader who was supposed to be deported and the liberal government intervened last week, this week, a couple days ago. It sets a different precedence. I guess I should have voted liberal. I wouldn't be in the situation. I mean, it's funny. It's a national. No, no, but you're not wrong. It's a national post here.

It's a national post. I'm going to bring it up. People have tagged me in this for three days now. Last night I finally read the whole article and I was like, son of the bitch. Yeah. So here you go. A Pakistani national Zane Hock has been at the center of activism blockades, bridges, ferry terminals, highways, and even the Vancouver airport. What does it say? It said on Friday HAC received a cryptic call from the office of Joyce Murray,

the liberal MP for his riding of Vancouver Quadra, telling him to stay by his phone. He was soon contacted by a CBSA case officer telling him he could stay in the country. HAC's lawyer Randall Cohn told Glacier that he suspected someone in the federal cabinet was listening and paying attention to the timing and decided to step in. Hack wasn't facing deportation because of his arrest or convictions for mischief. Rather, it was due to violations of his study permit. Hack was away from class for long periods.

At one point was put on academic probation by Simon Fraser University. over the last five years he's been at the center of two of the province's most extreme environmental groups, extinction, rebellion, and save old growth of which he's co-founder. This was quoted. Mr. Hack has shown disdain. This was I believe the lawyer. Mr. Hack has shown disdain for the rule of law, and he has publicly encouraged others to break the law while publicly celebrating his arrest. We're at a 2023 decision convicting hack of mischief, although prosecutors sought a 60-day jail sentence, Hack was instead given a 61 days of house arrest. So that's kind of the back story of this man here on the screen from a National Post article.

Right. So he's found guilty. You know, got 61 days, house rest. Repeat offender. Repeat offender. I've always said people have asked, would you do this again? I said, my response is, it's not a yes or no. It's a, this was a once-in-a-lifetime event for me. and I know this because many people are looking to relive the convoy days and it's uh it was organic in nature

i mean and you hope and you hope and you hope marco uh you know deep down that it's that it's that it's altered society so much that they could never get to the point of those circumstances again in our lifetime that's what i would hope that's that's that's the fight and that's a political fight that's a that's a fight that happens in the courts that's a fight that happens in in in in in not on the border. I mean, I don't, you can't plan what Coots was.

You can't even plan what Ottawa was. The plan was to go to Ottawa. That was real. That was, but there was no plan on getting there. There was no, it was, they didn't even know where they're going to park. The Ottawa,

Ottawa police, the city determined that and they may have regretted that. But I mean, there was no plan to the length of the occupation or the demonstration. It wasn't. It was organic in nature. You can't plan this stuff in today's society. And that's why I say this was a once in a lifetime event for me.

You know, the legal aspect of it was to counter. And this is where the Premier's comments come in. I agree with you, Premier, that we shouldn't block critical infrastructure for ideological purposes. I agree. Well, Coots wasn't an ideological protest or blockade. Members of Rome caucus were there, members of the party that are now involved in the party and the USCB party, I can go on. I'm not interested in sharing names.

That's not who I am. but tens of thousands over the course of those 18 days came through those Coutts Milk River tens of thousands I mean 40 45 50 and it was because government had lost their minds the ideology of government is what drove us down there not because of our ideology we were we were we were so so there was individuals that were determining that were executing you know government goes on. Some things just happen, right? bureaucracy motors

on without legislatures convening. But I mean, legislatures weren't. Democracy was dead. Which parliament was shuttered. The legislature was closed. A health committee, a PIC committee, a EMCC, Emergency Management, COVID committee.

Twelve people with the recommendations of some health, some unelected bureaucrats were what was governing this province. You know, I know you've had Shane Getson on here. Somebody I engaged with somebody I know well. Sorry, he's been on here a few times. I like Shane.

He's outspoken. He knows it to play the game a bit too. And I mean, you have to. I also understand that there's a gameship to politics. It's gross, but it is what it is. But he knew that he no longer had a voice. Even if he engaged with his people, he had no ability to share those frustrations to make demands.

The legislature was shuttered. All departments were working from home, land titles. You name it. Everybody was working from home. I just used land titles because it was just shows how inefficient it was. But so to say that this is where the premier's comments are just so disappointing. And I mean, you know, she probably regrets them. Even though what she's saying is true in relation to something completely different and not not the question that Rachel asked.

But she knows why we were in Quds. You know she knows. She supported the reasons. She supported the ang she was angry herself. But I mean she supported the reasons, the rationale of the protest. Did she support all the tactics? I don't believe she did. there's things I didn't support either, things that happened that shouldn't have happened.

I mean, like it goes to show you. It was a protest. We weren't in the RC&P. We weren't an organized. You weren't a foreign funded, you weren't a foreign funded institution. Because that's the other thing about that National Post article about the individual we were just talking about. It even admits to taking money from the United States. Anyways, from an organization of the United States, I should point out.

Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, we weren't. We were funded by Albertans, by Canadians. We were funded by our own, by ourselves. We know we, we, there was a cost to everybody who participated. But it was minuscule. The cost to the economy, the cost to the province, the cost of the country was minuscule in relation to the cost of COVID.

Yeah. We didn't know that real cost, but we're starting to see that cost, right? It's, it's, it's off the charts. It's generational this cost. Yeah. But I mean, yes. Marco, I, we shouldn't wait, you know, I don't know why I waited two years. What is the next big dates for people to pay attention to?

So July 22nd is our arraignment date. And that leads into a sentencing date, which we don't have. September, October. Is there anything, is there anything that people can do? to help? Anything like that that is top of your mind? Well, my biggest ask at this point would be to, and I mean, it's exhausting to fight. Trust me. Yeah, you have to, you have to realize it is not a sprint. It has not been a sprint. And I've had to pace myself and I've, I've, I've, my cardio in relation to fighting government has been it's it's in good shape and I mean I I understand a lot of

people have gone back to their lives a lot of people have completely stepped away from everything I mean they might see the news here and there but Facebook telegram social media you need they just in some ways discouragement because of things not being followed through because of government not following through on promises or some disappointment in the Premier or a lot of other things. And my ask would be for people to realize that it's not a sprint. It never was a sprint. If it took 10 years or five years to get us into this, it's going to take that long to get us out, if not twice as long. But it's worth it. And I mean, it's worth it.

Is it even a choice? Is it something that you want to risk? You know, you can raise your family. You can be very successful. In all last, in whatever your career, wherever your career takes you, business, private, public sector, you name it. But you will wake up one day and you will not recognize the world you live, you're living in. And this is the world that your kids will be living in. and will be starting their lives in.

And legacy is an interesting word, but will you leave, will you build a comfortable life for yourself in it? And we get to a point where it doesn't matter how successful you are. You are now living in a country that has become a communist shithole. And you might have been able to protect,

you might have been able to build some sort of a safe buffer around your life, you know, maybe you send your kids to private school. Maybe church has played it safe and hasn't, you know, caught the radar of anybody in relation to hate speech. Maybe your family genetics is stronger than most and you've been able to stay away from the health regime. Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe. Maybe you're just living in rural Alberta and a small community and you never went to the big city to make it big, but you made it. You made it big in the small town and you're good.

But there will come a time where you will regret not standing up earlier or not standing up, period. Or it might be too late to stand up. I don't know if that's, I don't know if that's a thing. It may never be too late to stand up, but certainly the conditions for standing up will be a lot harder. Yeah, that is right. went because because not everybody stands up or has the ability or the has the characteristics to stand up and they will they will start you know there's a list if there was a list of a thousand or of 250 people at Coots everybody would have

been on the list and some were first I mean my name was first and there would have been the 249th individual but if they take out the top 10 the top 15 and the top 20 who will lead and I and I think eventually people will lead you know bravery you know somebody asked me the other day Marco what would you say to those in relation to standing up and being grave and I would say well it's not a decision to be brave it's something that evolves bravery is is it's found in at the toughest times and in those times I mean And there is a decision at times to engage or to go to this event or to speak out or to work your way through the crowd and stand at the front and stand toe to toe and challenge tyranny, the face of tyranny.

And I mean, I don't mean that as the officer who's saying it, but the officer who's getting told to say things. There's a choice to do that. But reach deep. Reach deep and grab it because everybody has something worth fighting for. kids, family, parents, everybody has something worth fighting for. And when you step into that mindset of what I have here is worth fighting for. And I mean the economics of it, too, the prosperity of this province, 100% is worth fighting for. But it's not singular.

You know, we love to fight Ottawa on economics. It's a popular thing for conservative governments to do in this province to fight Ottawa. And I support that. But that's not it. This province will not be prosperous if we do not challenge this woke agenda. And there are many tentacles to this agenda. If we do not challenge this woke agenda, that is coming for our kids, that's coming for our seniors, that's coming, that has come for the unborn, that has come through a pharmaceutical giants, through the, the HHS regime. Are we going to fix it overnight? No. Are we going to fix everything? No, but there's things we can fix and it involves or it requires involvement and that is my ask is you ask me what would be my what is something we can help me with stand with me stand in front of me.

Lead the fight that I can't fight or that you know, you got to pick pick your battles. You know, continue what you're doing, Sean. these bring the controversial outspoken you know it's got to be respectful there's there's a way to communicate bring these individuals have their stories heard you know you've said it sometimes where it's like oh i don't know where this went but there's a lot of voices there's a lot of individuals out there that don't get a platform or or and don't find a platform because of some some reason like i mean there's organizations in this province that won't speak about Coots because they didn't agree with all of it. And I say that's fair. I respect, I respect your opinion. I respect premiums. I respect

their opinion. I respect my brother's opinion, but my conviction were personal and I hope you can respect them. But for individuals to say, I didn't agree with some of Coots, so now I just don't want to bring anything in Coots about Coots to my platform or to my show or to my organization. organization. And when these organizations are geared toward truth, I have a problem with that, because regardless of Qutes, post-Coutes, we have two men who have been remanded for 800 days as of yesterday. You don't have to talk about tractors on the highway. We can talk about a million different things in relation to Coots that are relevant. And, you know, I have it with church. People, churches were conflicted throughout COVID. Some, you know, I mean, it really brought

up the problems that were there before, but it divided. And I mean, our church was, we played it safe. I mean, we survived it. There was, there was division, there was moments of frustration, but overall was good. But when my charges first came, you know, there was individuals who felt there should have been prayer for us and there might have been a prayer request and there was some response from some elder like i mean if elders and deacons that's the terminology we use and some of these individuals had said in response to private conversations while they he broke the law didn't he it's like the response was well we all break the law every day i mean we all break god's law every day and my i didn't want to be a focus i didn't

want to be a pain. There's anything, if there's something, like my, I don't want to be a problem. But I mean, I've become a problem for many and I've had to speak out about that. But what I'm saying is in my journey where I've gone, Marco, is, you know, we talk a awful lot about getting involved in your school boards, your politics, your, you know, RM, your yada, yada, but very rarely do we say you should probably get involved in your church. A pastor needs strong man around him too. And I'm at a point now in my, you know, in my faith journey where I'm like, I don't know how heck I missed that for so long, right? Probably because I wasn't going, so I never really thought about it. But I hold it against the churches as much as anyone to get me

back to the door. I'm like, you didn't do anything for me. And yet, nor did the politics. And we all talk about getting involved there. When I hear, you know, that they were, they were conflicted. There's only a handful of churches that weren't. And we know all about those. And you go, you, you, you know, there's a thousand ways to get involved. There's a thousand issues to talk about. The thing that, uh, that I think, you know, when I watch it, it's like when, when you first started talking, I'm sure you were an okay talker.

I'm sure you were. But what people probably miss. Oh, I think it's not better. It has to. It has no choice. You're doing it over and over again. You are now my. 600 and whatever podcast, but if I tack on the mashups and I tack on everything else,

it's probably 800 plus. You do something, that repetition, you're building a skill. And the thing about getting involved at any board, you're going to have to deal with people who disagree with you. People disagree with me all the time. I'm not this wordsmith that gets everybody thinking the way I do. But I've had to interact. I've had to talk. I've had to talk to and listen to different sides and everything else. And then you realize there's a ton of institutions, including the church, that needs that. And if you get involved in it and you start talking to people,

you know, like that was Jordan Peterson's message in Alberta at Rogers Place. Listen, I'm not coming to save you. You got to save yourself. And the way you do it is you just start getting involved. And then maybe just try and understand where the other person's coming from. Talk to them. Communication. and then when you don't do that was oh sorry yeah that was he was he was he introduced

Tucker didn't he is that what he said I was before that was a year before Tucker was that was that was him him and his wife on stage and and and he said you know and I agree with him he was talking about and get involved in a school board and you go and you you converse you can't win people over because you haven't really thought of some of the things so then you do more research you you level up if you would then you go talk to the teachers then you're talking this and you realize how big the problem is, and you continue to grow as a person. And if we get that happening in churches all across the board, that's probably the biggest civil disobedience campaign we can have.

And that's going to take years upon years upon years upon years. But people build up strong communities, strong communities, out some of the BS that's going on. And I don't know, that's a long, long term. But I go back to Solgenitsyn. I haven't brought this up in a long time. But I used to think there's no way they have these plans and it's going to take this long time and they're implementing things from government across to government. And then you read Soldier Netson in their first, I don't know, 25 pages.

He talks big game of solitaire. And you realize, oh, no, that's okay. Well, crap, there goes that thought process. But on the flip side, the same thing is true on any one individual. Take responsibility for your life. start growing and getting better and and start talking to people communicating again start to understand and and build back humanity uh so that we can recognize it again so that we aren't saying fallacies that girls can become boys and that you know a politician has to you know bow to that

as like you know i think we just need modesty in the change room what come on it's a man in the girls change room. Stop it. But the thing is, is she's a politician, as is all politicians. And what do they do? They go off public opinion. And so if we're divided on this, this comes back on us again. Yeah.

And this is where involvement matters. Daniel Smith is not our savior. Nor is Donald Trump. Exactly. No politician will be our savior. If we look to them and we're, we will forever be disappointed. It'll be a roller coaster of emotion from from from campaign promises to real life.

You know to to to government to how they govern. It'll be it'll be an emotional roller coaster. I know this. It's not ideal. And I mean, some things are I don't I don't understand some things. I mean like as a politician. when you've taken the heat for some things, it's like, why would you reverse that position?

You've already taken the heat. The worst is behind you. Just stay strong, right? Like the Coots narrative. I mean, she's taking so much heat over that to now come out in the manner that she did. To what end? I mean, nobody, like, I was very clear. I've said this to her in person, and I was very clear in the last week.

Premier, I'm thankful you can. can't interfere. The arm that got me into this is not the arm that can get me out. Two wrongs will make a right. And I mean, that's my position. People say, oh, what did you expect, Marco? Nothing. I didn't expect her to do anything. She couldn't do anything. I mean, her justice minister, Mickey Amory had the ability to, has the ability to prosecute or state prosecution based on the greater good or the public opinion or things like that. I mean, this didn't fall into that. I mean, there was a lot of a lot of animosity around Quds, a lot of attention to it

because of other individuals and events that happened before the general election last year. I get that. But to comment in the manner she did versus no comment at all or some same. safe, you know, I mean, save some, some comment that, oh, the left will eat her up. They'll have something to say about it regardless. But I mean, this is an issue. This was, this was a big part of her campaign. This was a big part of the conservative movement at that time.

There is anger. There's now a lot. My, you know, I had a conversation with somebody the night of who was at the Edmonton leader dinner last Tuesday night. And I mean, I won't I won't say the name, but he's, he's very, he's, he's, he's at the top. And I mean, he, uh, he said, he sent me some encouragement and he said, Marco, we're thinking of, we're thinking about you and, and here's what I'll say, actually, I can, without disclosing the individual, I can say what was said with a private conversation. wishing and praying for your hope and strength marco i said thank you so and so i really appreciate

your support through it all and this is my new slogan i say i'm guilty but not gone like watch out edmonton i'm guilty but i'm not gone um he's like uh edmonton leader's dinner kind of became all a buzz with your trial's latest development with it's fair to say absolute support for you i mean support and i you know how support is right everybody supports you but i mean the people that actually show up and support you i've realized that that's okay i don't i don't need an army i uh my focus is forward but um there is anger there is there's frustration there's disappointment there's a lot of things happening in in the conservant movement in this province and our conviction our verdict was just another thing and it's it's there's anger that's

bubbling to the surface again and it's got me worried as much as I believe in responsible government I believe in accountability for those elected to service it's got me worried and this is what I said it says thanks so so this conviction worries me not for myself but for Alberta politics people are angry people involved in politics are angry and the emotion the anger is an emotion and that emotion leads to well you know what conservatives do right we eat our own now it leads to infighting it leads to a lot of things that we don't need right now but again we can't ignore like we need to support those elected to to represent us but we have to hold them accountable as well i've never been somebody who absolutely supports

any politician any official there has to be a proper measure of support and accountability otherwise we go back toward this this you don't remember the fight with jason kenny right oh who who then who's better all travis days won't run well he couldn't announce he was running until kenny was had resigned or announced his resignation and people said oh travis stays won't run well yeah he actually did and i mean travis days just wasn't good enough for us at that time we were looking for more we were looking for what daniel smith said at that time because we were angry I worry. Travis Taves never showed up to the

the Rebel APP debate and I always went if you aren't strong enough and this is known I'm calling Travis Taves out right now I just to me in my voting mind I went at that time if you're not sure enough on who you are to show up to a debate where there are going to be hundreds of people and Rebel News

six, seven hundred people there 800 people there it was a full crowd If you're not sure enough to be there, you've already lost my vote. Well, it has to do with CBC, right? CBC came out. Correct. And just so I'm not picking on Travis, there was multiple that didn't show up to that.

And so right away, you go, you're more worried about your image than actually what the hell is going on. And that was- Rebecca Schultz, Raj and Sarn. Only Todd Lowen, Brian, Jean, and Daniels. Smith showed up. You're missing a fourth. There was seven. Who was the other lady who was running? The one who did it wasn't there seven? No, I love there's six. Daniel Smith, Rebecca Schultz, Rajasunson, three ladies. Travis days. There's a fourth lady. There's a fourth lady. Oh yeah, sorry. Sorry. Yeah. She's running for the Signal Hill federal nomination now. Oh, man. Oh, she's,

she was a liberal. It's, it's funny. It's funny if you get your bingo card out on whether me and Marco could remember things from back then. Oh, man. It's funny, those two ladies were, two of the ladies never ever came on the podcast, because I had five of them in Vermillion. And the five came on the podcast leading up. There was the Western Standard debate as well in Lloyd, wasn't it?

Yes. No, in Calgary. Western Standard in Calgary. There was an official one down in Medicine Hat. There was an official one, I want to say, maybe an Emmett. and then there was the APP and then our constituency here held one and I and I hosted it. It was it was the yeah. So it's funny.

I had no dealings in politics until COVID and now I, you know, like I just enter into this murky pool. But you know, how this got going and me hopping in was Travis Tate's. And to me, if you aren't strong enough to talk about the strong issues that were going on, oh, we don't need to talk about it. We're still talking about it two years later. Like, this is still going on. There's things that, you know, the ramifications of what went on through that time is giant, you know. And I really appreciate you coming on, Marco.

We've been going for quite some time. I've enjoyed this conversation. I'm going to pay attention to what goes on here in the days to come, the months to come. You know, in my circles, I'll be praying for you. You know, like to me, you're, you're up against the machine. And I, I, uh, you're, you're in a select group of people right now that are all up against the machine. And I think we, we owe it to ourselves to pay attention and make sure, uh, the world is paying

attention as well. Yeah. And you know what? Now that you say this, I'm going to, and this is something we can continue in privately, but, um, I appreciate obviously the thoughts and in, in the prayers as well, Sean. I have had a lot of people reach out. I've met a lot of people on that continues, and that's huge. You know, I mean, people from across the country, from the states and elsewhere, just Facebook messages.

And it's like, wow. But we're in the preliminary stages of planning an event in Alberta along the lines. So Travis, or sorry, Chris Barbara had a big swift current fundraiser two months ago, and I went. And we're looking to do something in Alberta. at Calgary, South of Calgary in that area this summer that combines not, it's going to be obviously Coots and Ottawa Focus, but not about the two events as much as it is about the, it'll be a fundraiser, but more along the lines of getting together and supporting those who are still before the courts. And I mean, the support I need is,

Well, sorry, I've had a lot of support. I mean, rebels helped on that end, crowdfunded, but there are others, you know, the Coots 4, the Coots do, even the two that are out. They still have substantial legal bills. Tamara, Chris, a few others. And we were thinking, I've been in touch with them. I've met with a lot of their people and we haven't got it off the ground yet, but I, you know, I know you put on a lot of events.

I see you do events here and there. And I just thought, you know, an individual, and this something will continue. you later but this is something you and me should collaborate on and maybe this is something you want to get involved in on obviously not organizing it all because you need a few individuals who were just really good at that and let them lead the charge but i mean we all play our roles in pushing it and you know there's emcees required things like that but i think there is an opportunity to revive and to keep that fire going that that fire that was the protests and the demonstrations across the country. Yes, there's those big ones that hold that will go down in the history books, the blockades, Ottawa, etc. But there was little protests and slow rolls everywhere. This was not stuck. You know, this wasn't specific to the few hundreds and the thousands of people in a specific spot. There's people that could not leave. There's people that could not afford to go there. But they, in solidarity with those who did, every community had their events. So this was.

And that's the part they're trying to surprise. You bring up the word that I, that, uh, that come to mind when you started talking about. You're, you're trying to, uh, um, maintain or bring back or help build whichever word you want, community. That's, that's, that's, you know, and part of the community is, is, uh, you know, I think of like, honestly, uh, Kristen Nagel and like the list goes on of people being attacked by the system right now. And the way they're doing that is through the courts, huge, hefty fines, tons of money.

and it just seems never ending. So I tell you what. It's a convention. You know, all these conventions for industry, for politics, you know, we could do something

in a freedom convention, you name it. We can have speakers, we can have an all day or an all weekend event. I think it would be phenomenal and I think it would draw a lot of individuals. And you'd probably get a lot of people

that would want to help not only support it financially, but actually, you know, I think of the wonderful individuals we have here in Lloyd. I know there, like you pointed out,

all across the province, There'll be a bunch of people that all ears will perk up and they'll be like, well, maybe I could help like organize or, you know, use their skill set to help make it what it needs to be. 100%. I think there's also. I mean, it's an idea at this point. And, you know, us, I talked about it with Chris and Tamara and some of her people and his people. And they're on board. It just, I think it starts with striking a committee and getting it getting some.

Getting it moving. Well, I appreciate, appreciate you hopping on, Marco. we will be paying attention. Obviously, if there's any giant event, folks, we will make sure that you hear about it here. And either way, thanks for, thanks for hopping on and doing this. I've enjoyed carrying on the conversation from two years ago. Obviously, it's evolved and things have changed.

But I find a similar individual, obviously grown a bit sitting across me, and I've enjoyed the chat. And I really appreciate you having me on and appreciate the perspective that you continue to bring out on your show. It's needed, it's important, and it's valued. Thanks, Sean.