Shaun Newman Podcast - #641 Military Roundtable #4

Episode Date: May 20, 2024

Clif Walker spent 35 years in the Canadian military, served as the commanding officer of the Regina Rifles, and retired as a Brigadier General. Ed Staniowski spent 30 years in the Canadian military, served as the commanding officer of the Regina Rifles, and retired as lieutenant colonel. Let me know what you think. Text me 587-217-8500 Substack:⁠https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcast⁠ E-transfer here: ⁠[e-mail]⁠ Website: ⁠https://silvergoldbull.ca/⁠ Email: [e-mail] Text: [phone] – and be sure to let them know you’re an SNP listener.

This is Brad 14. This is Doug Casey. This is Tom Romago. This is Alex Craneer. This is Viva Fry. You're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast. Folks, happy Monday.

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Okay. June 17th, I'm going to be in Calgary for an injection of truth town hall. world-class experts to present the medical and scientific case for stopping COVID-M-R-N-A injection in children. They got Dr. Eric Payne, Dr. Chris Schuemaker, Dr. Byronbridle, Dr. Jessica Rose, Dr. William Macchus, Dr. David Wiseman, MLA, Shane Gets, and you can get tickets at an injection of truth.com.com. They got popcorn and politics afterwards. They're trying to get all the UCP MLAs there to hear from these people. So share that. Buy your tickets. And I hope to see a few of you there. that could be a real interesting night. And once again, that's a Monday, a June 17th in Calgary.

You can also live stream it, I believe, for a small fee as well, have a viewing party and see what's going to be happening in Calgary. I think there's a real opportunity to put some pressure on the Alberta government here in June. I guess we will wait and see what comes of it. Either way, let's get on to that tale of the tape, shall we? The first spent 35 years in the Canadian military and retired a brigadier general. The second, 30 years in the military, 10 years in the National Hockey League, and a retired lieutenant colonel. I'm talking about Cliff Walker and Ed Stinooski.

So buckle up, here we go. Welcome to Sean Newman podcast. Today I'm joined by Cliff Walker and Ed Stinooski. So, men, thanks for giving me some time this morning. Sean, it's my pleasure to be here and see you at the Hotel Saskatchewan. Likewise, Sean. Good to be with you. Um, I, I, uh, for the listener, you know, we do, uh, these military roundtables and, um,

Jamie Sinclair has been a part of many of them. And that's why all of us are here today. Um, and certainly that's, as a listener gets to listen to a bunch of different, uh, military men come on the podcast and discuss their careers and, and maybe fond memories or some stories that you think people should hear. Um, and so they, they're, I'm treated again to be sitting in this room and have, uh, you, you folks hop on with me. For the listener, we'll start with Cliff and then Ed, just a little bit about yourself, just so they can understand who they're listening to, and then we'll let Ed go and then we'll see where we get to.

Well, I joined the military back in 1962. 62 years ago, Sean, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, I don't think you were with us when I enlisted. I grew up in the Regina, Regina Beach area, and that's where I got to know the Sinclair family, Jamie Sinclair's grandfather, my very first. paying job was in the 50 delivering ice on a horse and wagon and Jamie's grandfather would cut it out of the out of the lake during the winter time and we'd deliver ice boxes in the summer until refrigerators took over and that

business was retired and I said joined the Army in 62 spent 35 years in uniform also ended up teaching and my last 10 years was the CEO of the Corps Commissioners in southern Saskatchew and so very blessed to have worked with a lot of wonderful people over those years and met people like Eddie and now yourself and here I am. Well, from my perspective, I've known Jamie pretty much his whole military career. I joined the Army in 1985 and when Jamie joined in 1986, I was the officer in the rural Regina Rifles who swore him in. So I came full circle last night. I had a chance to, as I mentioned, be his first platoon commander and, and, and, and, and, you know, and, you know,

and swore him in. We did a lot of different deployments and training and operations together over the years. Jamie's last two parachute jumps, I was sitting in the chalk with him in the late 90s and then last night was able to mug him out for his retirement. So it's been full circle for me. I served a total of 30 years in the armed forces prior to a career in the National Hockey League. I was fortunate I always say I was a privilege. It was a career of fortune and privilege. I was fortunate enough to have 10 years in the National Hockey League and privileged enough to command just outstanding young men and women like,

you know, and like Jamie Sinclair, Corporal Jamie Sinclair, and it's been a privilege. You know, I was saying Jamie this morning, one of the things, and you two men would know all about this, I'm an outsider, I'm not a military guy, so to be, you know, invited here, and Jamie will twist my arm to make sure that I came. And then to be around the group of men, you know, Friday night and all day yesterday and now this morning.

And I was saying to him this morning, like there hasn't been one guy that hasn't like welcomed me in. Like I'm part of the team. It's been really, I don't know the word, enjoyable. But you guys would know all that because you know all the men that came from all over this country to celebrate a career. but the way they, I don't know, I always come from a hockey background and how hockey teams bring in, you know, a guy gets traded or moves into town or however to do

and how you welcome them in and try and make them part of the team. I guess I was commending Jamie and the group of your comrades on how welcoming they were to me from being a complete outsider. Like, I mean, it's been really enjoyable. I think it would be fair to say, Sean, that in the military friendships are made quickly and then they're more often suspended

when people are posted and you might not see somebody for two three years and you pick up like it was yesterday I know my wife was always amazed that we had friends that we'd spend quite a bit of time with they'd be posted away we wouldn't see them talk to them for two

three years get together somewhere else and go out for dinner it was like we'd been with them last week and I think that most soldiers are very accepting of other soldiers unless or until they do something that you know then makes you suspicious but if you if you're willing to you know put your put yourself in harm's way that's a big indicator that you're an all right kind of guy so Sean I think I would add if you're a friend of Jamie Sinclair's you're going to be accepted by the men and women that he served with in his three

cap badges that'd be the Canadian Airborne the Royal Regina Rifles and the PPCLI and so So, you know, if Jamie Sinclair calls you his friend, then you'll be readily accepted by all the men and women that were in that room last night, wishing Jamie well in his retirement. Because that's a big gateway. You know, Jamie's friends are not few. There are many. And as you saw last night, they come great distances to wish him well. Yeah. Before we move on, you know where you're asking about podcasting and the different things.

So one of the things when people sit across from me in studio, now this is, you know, an interesting studio for the day is we give everybody a one ounce silver coin. So that's a thank you of hopping on the podcast, and it's from Silver Gold Bowl. So I don't know if either of you were collectors of

silver or gold, or maybe you don't want to say, maybe it fell out of the boat, as they say. I can say I am in a good company, and they offer a great opportunity for people who want to get in. This is totally unsolicited, and I can say, I know they're a great company,

and they offer people a great opportunity who want to get into precious metals, and I'd be happy to say I do have so. And at Alberta, you know, I think that's probably, we've got people knocking at the door. Well, I also would like to say thank you to the company for their kindness and generosity, and I will keep this in treasured. Of course, it's, this is podcasting 101, old Willie walking in. Do you want us to pause for a second? No, go ahead.

Cool. Regina rifles, you guys, do you want a mic in on this, Willie? Or you just want to listen? I'm good. Good. The Regina rifles, Jamie tells me a lot about it. I feel like it's probably high time I had some, and maybe you two can enlighten me on the Regina rifles

and why they're important and maybe a bit of their history. Yeah, it's the. regiment of the city of Regina, obviously as the name would imply, been around for a long time under different, under different nomenclature. In the First World War, it was called the 28th Battalion. It was at Vimy. And following the First World War, the name Regina Rifles came back into being. It was part of seven brigade on the invasion of Normandy in 1944, and that's why Eddie and I are going to France in the next couple of weeks to commence. I had a number of battalions during the war, one battalion following the war.

And up until the early mid-60s, they were large units. There were four or five hundred people in a reserve unit and prepared to deploy. They're smaller now, but still in existence. And all of the commanding officers before me, I had the opportunity to command the rifles from 1976 to 79. All the commanding officers before me have already died. me have already died. The first two after me have already passed away. So I'm sort of a last attachment to the 70s as a commanding officer and then the next one would be from the mid-80s.

And certainly the regiment has had some wonderful people like Willie McDonald and Ed Stonowski, Jamie Sinclair, serve in it over the years. And it's very active right now deploying overseas. The commanding officer is a medal of valor. holder for his service in Iraq. The DCO has served in Iraq, served in Vietnam. A number of soldiers are in Latvia right now, so it's really a reserve regiment or reserve unit that is punched above its weight, in my opinion. Likewise, like General Walker, I had the privilege of being the commanding officer of the regiment back in the late 90s and early thousands or 2000s. And it was always amazing to me as a young officer coming up from 85 until my tenure as a commanding officer,

how the regiment punched above its weight with regard to soldiers that stepped up and went on to deploy all the places that Cliff mentioned, plus many other places. And then once they got a taste of the service from reserves, when they would go on callouts or operational tours with PPCLI, primarily, the Princess Pats, then a lot of them crossed over and is in the case with William McDonnell and went on to do amazing things in far-off places while they were in harm's way. And it's just a real privilege to see them a whole bunch of them again last night. And also, as Cliff alluded to, General Walker mentioned, you know, the history of the regiment. Places, battles the Somme, Vimy, and the Great War, the First World War, the Second World War,

Brettville, D-Day Landings, of course, you know, Leopold Canal. The regiment has 29 battle honors. The most recent was for members who served in Afghanistan. So it's got a tremendous legacy, a tremendous history. And that's what we are

perpetuating now with this statue that we're taking over to, which is actually in Normandy as we speak, waiting to be unveiled, and that will happen, as Cliff mentioned next month, the first week of June. And it's important that A, the regiment is recognized for what it accomplished and also that the young soldiers who are serving today get a chance to hear the stories secondhand as not

too many veterans, but they will actually be one veteran there who will be able to share with them firsthand what was done 80 years ago. For the listener, well actually, I guess maybe we just talk about June. What's coming up with the statue? I've heard a little bit about it. There's going to be a ton of people probably haven't heard anything about it. Maybe they don't even realize anymore the importance coming in June. Yeah, like you got people listening from across the country and into the United States, I might add.

What's so important about June? What is the statue? Maybe we could just explore that. Well, for me, it's twofold. One, it's historical because of the regiment and what they did on 6th of June and from 6th of June until May of 14th. to crack open Festung Europa and then to drive the Germans out of France, out of Belgium, out of the Netherlands to the completion of the war. Young guys who had grown up in Saskatchewan, there were teachers, they were trade clerks, they were farmers, there were an awful lot of First Nations at that time called Indian soldiers.

Almost 20% of the regiment was made up of kids from different reserves who didn't have to join under treaty. didn't have to serve but they came forward and they joined so from a professional point of view and what the unit did that's very important to me from a personal point of view my dad was the signals officer with the Regina rifles and he went overseas with the unit and was with him until 1943 when he went off to the the Operation Husky invasion of Sicily and in Italy and badly wounded in Italy and convalescing back to the Regina rifles when the decision was made to do the DDA landing.

And at that time, he was still requiring surgery so he could walk, but he couldn't run very fast. And when you're running up a beach with people machine gunning, it's nice to be able to move quickly. So he was transferred back to the brigade headquarters and a young man named Bob Murchison replaced my dad on the landing craft. And they said that the mine that exploded under the landing craft looked like it went off right underneath the signals officer

and the company commander, and they were both killed. So for me, it's a personal and a professional. And when I'm in Europe with Eddie in June, I hope to go and visit Bob Murchison's grave, and I just stand there for a moment and think about, if it hadn't have been for my dad being wounded in Italy, that would have been my dad there. And, of course, you know, who knows where I might have been.

So personal and professional for me. Likewise, when you look at, when you read the history, of the battles that were fought in any war, you know, often there's a big arrow on a very small map, and there isn't a whole lot that you hear about the actions that the men and today's women did in whatever event you're reading about or looking at. I had the privilege while I was commanding officer to actually go to Normandy and Brettville and Leopold Connell with veterans who had fought there and walked the ground and hear the stories of what happened. And as Cliff shared, as General Walker shared, one is a story of a stretcher bearer named Gilbert Boxall,

and Gilbert came from just west of Prince Albert, Saskatchewan, off one of the reserves. He was a indigenous soldier of First Nations. And the men that I was standing on the beach with back for the 75th and the 70th and the 50th anniversaries of D-Day, they shared with me that it was amazing how rifle and boxall was everywhere on the beach. His job was to look after the wounded, to move them from where they had been shot or injured by shrapnel and blast to a place of somewhat secure up against a seawall. And they said that it was amazing over that several hundred yards of beach where men were coming ashore and being hit. He would expose himself and get them to the seawall and a semblance of safety. And he did that

throughout the day because even though the rifles did push inland, they landed, they started landing shortly after 8 o'clock in the morning and by noon they were still clearing elements of course El Sumer, the village had to go back and reclare it because the Germans were able to infiltrate back into the village again. And during that whole time, shells were still being fired onto the beach indirectly by the Germans. And again, Rifleman Boxel continually exposing himself to help others. And then as the battle went inland towards, Brett fell about seven, eight miles inland. Again, rifleman boxhole was everywhere looking after the wounded,

and all the veterans talked about him. Well, I saw him on this flank, and he saw him on that flank, and they saw him over here. So, you know, unquestionable valor and commitment to his peers. Tragically, he was killed on the 9th of June, so he stayed in the fight for, you know, his fight was about nine days, or until the 9th of June, I should say. about three in days, three and a half days.

And a friend of General Walker and myself who survived the fight and came back to Regina and ended up as the, over time, became the deputy police chief here, Dennis Chisholm. Dennis shared with us that one of the tasks he had to do on the 9th was recover several bodies and prepare them for expedient burial. and he recovered the body of rifleman boxall when he was shot and killed by a sniper. And the thing that Dennis shared with us about

as he was preparing Gilbert's body for this expedient burial, you go through all the pockets, of course, any of us who have been in harm's way and had to do it, it's a very solemn job to recover, maybe a letter to home, it might be a personal item or whatever. But as he was doing that, Dennis Chisholm shared with us that he noted that on Gilbert's body were no less than five wounds. So over the three days where he was looking after everyone else, he had been hit at least five times. And he never told anyone.

He just found a place and patched himself up and carried on until it was a fatal wound that took him out. So those are the kind of things that really resonate and need to be shared, in my opinion. Have all of you fought in, like, active war? Like, I know Willie, you've talked. Willie doesn't have a mic. I'm looking at Willie, because I've heard Willie's story. But, you know, like, I guess I'm just, I've never been in an active fight. I've always played hockey.

So, like, what you just said, the only thing that it even brings to mind is we got the NHL playoffs going on. And in order to win the Stanley Cup, you're going to get scratched and, but, And heck, that's what it's a war of attrition, winning best to seven after best of seven, after winning best to seven, after finally winning the final one, best of seven. And there's no other sport like that. But what you just talked about is, I don't know, that's wild. I'm to be hit and to not just like remove yourself and, you know, like, even the third time, you know. But in the military, I assume you guys come across more of that than less than that because of the people and the circumstances in which being in the military presents.

You've identified something, if I may, Sean, you've identified something that's very true. There are many similarities between the game of hockey, especially at the professional level, the national hockey league and soldiering. The big difference, of course, is the outcome in the military. If you're in second place, it's not a good place to be. Bad things happen on the battlefield. Bad things happen when you're looking after your peers, as Gilbert Boxall was. But there are similarities.

And you have to carry on in both instances. You see acts of valor that are absolutely amazing, and often they're untold. Sometimes they're slight and you don't realize the importance of what was done until after the fact. And thankfully, you know, once in a while they do get recognized. In William McDonald's case, you know, there's a star of valor that, you know, that someone obviously thought that those actions that were taken on that time on that day were worthwhile. Other times, in Gordon Boxhall's case, there isn't, you know, a recognition other than, the peers to do it. And on the battlefield, there is no second place. You can't afford to,

you can't afford to lose the fight in hockey. You can and you do. But you pay a price in hockey also a couple of years ago, the winning goal for San Jose in overtime was scored by a player who took a slap shot in a mouth and lost, I think, eight teeth and it cracked his jaw in two places in the first period. And he scored the winning goal in overtime. So again, it's, It's not for the same reasons, obviously, in the game, but the same kind of tenacity and sacrifices is required in the game at that level. There's no question. I've often said, and Cliff General Walker has heard me say this,

that you show me a hockey player as committed as some of the men I played with in the NHL, teach them how to be a soldier, and you're going to have a hell of a soldier. Likewise, soldiers that I served with overseas and in the rifles, and in the PPCLI, the soldiers I served with, you teach them the game and give them the, if they have the skills to play the game, and you're going to have a hell of a partner there too. And I'm the geyser in the crowd, Sean.

So I retired in 1997 before Afghanistan happened that Willie and Eddie served overseas there. So for me, really, until 1974, it was, it was pretty peaceful time in the military. And in 1974, when the Turks invaded Cyprus, we lost 15 people in the course of about five days. It was a very eye-opening for us when the first soldier was killed. You know, the headquarters, I was working out of FMC headquarters in San Joubert in Quebec,

and the first soldier was killed, and, you know, the headquarters was a buzz, and the next day another soldier was killed, and then seven were killed, shot down over Syria. And at the same time, we had a grenade accident in Valcateailles and six young army cadets were killed. So we had 15 deaths, and it was amazing to all of us how quickly we accepted the fact that death and wounds and privation were part of what we were doing.

We saw that again, and I had an opportunity to visit, Eddie in Cyprus when I was the deputy commander of the Army in Western Canada. We spent some time in Cyprus and I had a chance to go on a patrol and the CEO of the Patricia's asked me if I take my rank off and go as a private because if I got captured, they said the Turks would want a case of Scots to get me back, but if I went as a private, they could get me back for a case of beer. So I went as a private soldier on the patrol and Eddie's job was to try and make sure I wasn't I wasn't captured and did the same thing in Croatia when I was visiting there. And I said, when I visited, I'd like to go.

So I did a night patrol. And they said, how do we treat you on the patrol? I said, treat me as a rifleman. And so I was number five riflemen, and the company commander was number four riflemen, and the driver was number six rifleman. And the platoon sergeant was a great, you know, a great young guy and took us out. But, you know, we saw people maimed and killed there. went to visit and I don't know if Willie knew him a young fellow named Anderson from

Newfoundland and he was driving a young fellow from Regina named Lennie and they hit a mine in Croatia and Lenny was wounded and young Anderson lost both legs at the knee and two weeks later I was back in Ottawa I went to the medical center where Lenny was and brought him back postcards and letters from his troop mates and the warrant officer sir on the hospital ward was named Plouf and said to me in general, you should ask Anderson to show you how he can walk. And I said, if that's a joke, Warren, I don't find that very funny. He said, sir, I'm not trying to be funny. Ask Anderson to show you how he could walk. And I went in to see him and, as I said, he had, he lost both legs at the knee.

And I gave him the letters and the cards. And I said, Warren Plouf suggested I should ask you to show me how you can walk. And he said, yes, sir. And he pulled the little triangle above his bed and he swung his stumps out and he put prostheses on each leg and he got up and he staggered over to the door turned the light on and off staggered back to the bed and sat down that was two weeks after he lost his legs you know I had tears in my eyes and I said you know this generation of young Canadians and the next generation and the next generation are going to come through and but there's a price there's a terrible price to be paid and I think that soldiers with any kind of experience accept that price and open up a little place in the back of their mind,

and that's where that goes. And from time to time, open that door back there and have a peek at it and put it close the door. So, yeah. So I retired in 97 and say before Afghanistan and didn't get a chance to serve there with these fellows. You got to serve through the Cold War.

Yes. In today's world, with Russia, Ukraine happening, now Israel and, I don't know, all the Middle East, like boiling over. Like, are, or do you think we're close to war? Maybe we're already in war? I don't know. I just, I look at the group of men here.

I'm like, I'm just a minion from Lloyd Minster, right? Like, I look at the news, I watch the cycle and see the temperature not decreasing, but rising steadily. When you men are looking at that, what do you see? I think that's pretty astute. I would suggest right now that the world is in a more dangerous position than we have been probably since 62. And, you know, we definitely thought World War III was about to start. And to give you some idea of the belief that the war was going to be on at the Regina Armories, there was a lineup of, there were four lines of young men that came into the armory and they went out the door.

They went all the way down a block and a half to do Neelagh. Avenue they went down a block to Athel Street, you know, waiting to enlist to go, you know, to fight World War III. I don't know if that would happen today. There was certainly a commitment then, I think mentally that the, you know, that the group, the province, the country was more important than me, that for a lot of veterans today, we see what seems to be the me generation. I want to wear pink hair. I want to wear earrings. I want to wear whatever pieces of my uniform and it's about me. And that's a little distressing to us because right now the world does seem to be, if not,

if not stumbling its way to war, certainly where an accident somewhere could provoke an outbreak of war. I don't think that there's a feeling on amongst Western armies about the Russian war machine being invincible. They obviously haven't been. They fought a much smaller country for three years and they've, suffered a tremendous number of casualties, both human and otherwise. But, you know, the big game changer today versus 50 years ago or 60 years ago, 70 years ago, 80 years ago, is the proliferation of nuclear weapons because as a young soldier, we were trained that we could fight and win a nuclear war.

I don't believe that anymore. I don't think there are any soldiers anymore that think we can fight and win a nuclear war. So I hope that there's going to be a backing away from the precipice. My most recent exposure to an all-up war, I was in the Ukraine a couple of years ago while the war was on and I was there as a civilian because I left the armed forces, the Canadian Armed Forces in 2015. But the things that I saw and witnessed very recently, as I say, just two years ago, the nature of war hasn't changed at the Coalface. the young men and women are still expected to do, again, brave things, ruthless things, and it's still happening. I saw it in Africa. I saw it in the Middle East. I saw it in the Balkans. I saw it in Afghanistan. And it's happening as we speak right now in Europe between Russia and the Ukraine.

And as General Walker alluded to, there were Canadian soldiers who went on that thin red line on the Latvian Polish border. And it could very easily escalate into something much bigger. But the nature of war, though it's become very technical and you know there's difference in equipment and capabilities and such, what's required of the young men and women hasn't changed. And there's another part of it that it, that certainly my parents, my parents experienced because my father was in Poland in 1939 September in the army, the Polish army when the Germans invaded. And he saw firsthand, you know, that war that when it kicked off and he fought until 1944 when he was seriously wounded in Italy

before he and my mother emigrated to Canada. And that is the civilian component. When I was in, as I mentioned, on the Polish-Ukraine border a couple of years ago watching the refugees, the civilians come out of the Ukraine. 95% of them young women who had young children in tow. And one would think certainly that's not going to happen at this day and age, what it does. And there was literally millions of refugees coming out of the Ukraine with everything they owned were in two, you know, Costco shopping bags type of thing as they trudged across the border

and out of harm's way and into the safety that was being offered by the West in Poland and Latvia and other countries, Hungary and Romania. And that is a terrible, terrible price. and, you know, when you look at the attitude that we're so very fortunate in America and in Canada, we've never, you know, it's been a century since we had open fighting of any kind in North America, to be sure. Is it possible that something can happen again that will throw us Canada into something that would be an all-out war? In my opinion, yes. Hopefully, I hope to God not, but it's very possible. And as again, General Walker mentioned, it can be a mistake.

Something as simple as a mistake, a missile that goes awry. It's happened a couple of times where a missile fired in Ukraine, hit landed in Poland, and Poland is pretty serious about defending their borders, and that could escalate into something very, very quickly. So we need young men and young women to step up. And again, as General Walker said, it's got to be about the people on your left and on your right to your front and your back,

and the people that you're protecting back home. You know, it's not about glory, it's not about ideals. It's about the people that are going to have to go. And it's going to be the young people of Canada if it happens, and I certainly hope it doesn't. You mentioned your father, if I heard that correct, served 1939 to 1944 with the Polish Army, correct? That's right, he did.

When you were growing up, I assume he shared some stories, or I guess where my mind is going, I'm like, wow, I wonder what advice or knowledge he passed on to you about that time. Because, you know, I've been very fortunate to sit in this seat in different spots, and he passed away this year. Sy Campbell. He was a military man that I got to interview. He was 94-1 interviewed him, and he was a rear-tail gunner and a Lancaster bomber. And he, he, during D-Day, in their plane, they went and sprinkled tinsel in the air in a different spot because it showed up in the radar. And I remember him telling me this. He was such, I couldn't believe how sharp his mind was. And getting to hear those stories firsthand is really important for not only the younger generation, but just generations in general, to understand the lessons and what it took and some of the things they seen and everything else.

your father saw firsthand then the the german war machine come into their country and then of course everything else that happened after did he ever talk about it and if he did what do you remember a number of things come to mind Sean when you when you when you when you when you ask that question and first and foremost my father was a was a teenager in 1939 he was already in the army when the Germans invaded in September 1st and the the regiment the brigade actually that he was part of was one of the few elements of the Polish army that was able to stay relatively intact with the German onslaught and and the his brigade made it out of Poland when Poland capitulated they got out to the south into Hungary and then ended up down

in what what is now Iran and then into Israel which which wasn't a nation at that time of course, it was just known as Palestine. So his brigade ended up down there, and then they were taken, they served with the British Eighth Army. As it was put together, General Anders was a Polish general, and of course General Montgomery was the British General commanding, and they ended up in North Africa. So my father was to Brooke Benghazi, Elamon,

in the north, in the fighting across Africa. And then in 1943, they moved to Italy, when Sicily and the clearing up the boot of Italy took place. So he was with the Polish army. And by then the Polish military was a full core. The second Polish corps was stood up because a whole bunch of the Polish who had been taken by the Russians to Russia and put in the gulags were released by Stalin. And they were able to get through the south, through the Carpathian area there

and into, they joined up of this big fist, this big Polish army that wanted revenge in Italy and the second Polish Corps. And their big battle, a Poland's big battle, was at a place called Monique Casino, about 90 kilometers south of Italy,

or Rome, Italy. And Dad was there, and Dad was wounded at that battle very seriously. He was wounded several times during the war, but he was wounded seriously there. And his best friend, Corporal Edward Vashneski, was killed in a trench right next to him, hit by Shrapnel. and I'm named for his best friend, Edward,

and I visited Edward's grave, and dad shared with me how he was killed on the night of the battle at Casino. But you asked what dad spoke about. It's funny, I have two brothers and an older sister, and dad always told us, boys, he said, he said, you know, stay out of the army, don't serve. And he says, he said, war is a terrible thing.

You don't want to go there and you don't want to do it. He really started telling me more about his service, actual service, and the horrors that he experienced once I joined. I heard a lot more. I didn't listen to Dad. I joined, and then it's kind of like a bit of a veil came down, and he shared with me a whole lot more about his military service experience. And I'm quite proud to say that my younger brother served in the Canadian Armed Forces

in the reserves as a tank gunner, and my older brother, Les, served as a military policeman. So none of the boys listened to their dad. And my older brother was posthumously awarded the Medal of Bravery for his actions in a gunfight where he sacrificed himself to save some other people. And he was posthumously awarded a Medal of bravery for his actions. So we didn't listen to Dad, but there's another side to this if I have a moment. Sure, yeah, absolutely. And that is my mother's story.

My mother was born and raised right on the Polish-German border, and she served during the war in the German army. as a nurse. She was fluent in Polish. So she was also at the Battle of Montecino, but she was on the other side. She was with the German army. And the large hospital, German hospital

that she was serving in was south of the Rapido River. And you don't just pick up and move a hospital with all the wounded as the Germans were retreating. So she was part of the cadre of nurses and doctors who stayed behind with the wounded, the German wounded. And she ended up being a nurse for the Allies. And she ended up treating Canadian soldiers and Polish soldiers. Well, wouldn't you know it?

One of the Polish soldiers that she treated was my father. And that's how they met. The first time she met Daddy, he had a gunshot wound through and through his abdomen. And she met him there. And as he was evacuated further from the front, and then there was time as the Allies moved up to the boot of Italy, mom ended up working in a, at first a Canadian hospital, believe it or not, and then in a Polish hospital because she was fluent in Polish.

And again, Mom and Dad met. And Dad, when he recovered from his wounds in 19th, spring of 45, January 45, they didn't put them back into the front. What they did is he made him a military policeman. He took a short course and he became a military policeman. Well, one of the things Dad did is he put a wall around Mom. Mom couldn't get a leave pass to get off base for some reason. Mom couldn't go anywhere without a military police.

escort. Well, it was dad who was always the escort. And so dad put a wall around her and they had a romance. They were married in Tranny, Italy in 1945, July of 1945. Two years after the war ended, in May, they were still in Italy for a while. And then they had to go to Shropshire, England as part of the Polish deactivation. And they were two years there. And then they moved to Canada and the rest is history. I moved to the prairies here in Regina and made a good life for themselves and raised three boys and a daughter and the rest is history. They're going to make a movie about it someday, I'm pretty sure.

Once again, it's probably not more commonplace than I give credit, but sitting in the company I'm sitting, the story is wild. And yet it probably happened more than I give credit. I'm just not a part of that world to even know it exists. But the fact that they were both on the opposite sides of the battle and then not only does she eventually start working for the allies, which I'm trying to rationalize that out. I don't know if I can. And then to meet a Polish man and get married and move to Canada and everything else. It is human beings are an interesting, we have such interesting stories, I guess,

is what I'm trying to spit out. And I appreciate you for sharing that because that's, that's, you know, you think I was going in my head with, you know, what lessons, Did he pull out of there? He pulled out a wife and a family, and he told you not to do it, and then all of you guys went and did it anyways. Well, there's a resiliency. I don't want to take over here, but I'm sitting between right as we speak. I know your listeners can't hear it,

but I'm sitting between two warriors with great resiliency, Jamie Sinclair on my left and William McDonnell on my right, and both of these men, I think, would agree with me, and Cliff across from me would agree with me that there's a tremendous resiliency you have to have to go through those experiences, and my father certainly had it. My mother certainly had it. And I know Cliff's father, who I met back in the early in my career,

it was of the same bolt of cloth. And you develop a camaraderie that, you know, why did people travel from all across literally North America today to be, or yesterday to be with Jamie at his retirement? It's because you have that brotherhood, that sisterhood, that's only built sometimes, without being dramatic, it's under fire. I will share one thing that when my father told me, he said, when you're on the battlefield, when the gunfire stops, when the smoke clears,

and you're on the battlefield, and you're alive and you're standing over the dead, whether they're your comrades or in some cases of the enemy, what's been defined as enemy, you get a sense that the sky is blue, it's never been bluer, the grass has never been greener, the smells, the sounds resonate with you. And you can only often share that with somebody who's been there. And there's a certain reality that life is precious. And it's worth standing up against tyranny against.

And it's very true. We got a few minutes left. I don't want to keep you here all morning. And I know you guys got things to do today. But you brought up. Jamie and Willier sitting here. Jamie, I'm going to just, I just want you to, what question do you want these two to talk about for the final thing?

because Jamie this morning for everybody who's listening and sitting in this room is like, okay, you got to ask about this, you got to ask about this, you got to do this, you got to do this. And I can safely say we haven't done any of it. So you get to ask a question here. What do you want these two to chat about? Well, I'm going to ask three questions. Okay, so you're not getting off that easy. Okay, so first of all, I have to just tell how humble I'm to be here with these guys.

Eddie swore me in Yeah And Cliff was a mentor Just a huge mentor in my life As a young as a young rifleman And I thank you for For everything in your kind words last night And appreciate it

So sorry about that Is it's an easy to be emotional Pretty big thing that's going on here And what happened the other day So anyways, to my questions, and I want you to know that from my heart there, sir, and, and, and and thank you for everything you've done and continue to do for the regiment as well. So, okay, although being a commanding officer in 1970 or 1980, there were things that were going on that, that weren't right.

And at the time, the commanding officer, the rifles, was Cliff Walker. And he righted some wrongs that were very important to the regiment. Number one, we needed a set of colors to represent our regiment. There was colors that were part of the Saskatchewan's army units that deployed to France and World War I that veterans wanted to see again, but some other. got boxed up and hidden away in the basements of parliament. And Cliff figured out a way to bring those colors to light and have the veterans see their colors that they fought and died for.

And that was very important. And that's a great story. I'd love to hear your story on that cliff because that should be captured in history. And the other part was there was an artist rendition of the Regina Rifles sitting to beaches in Normandy that somehow ended up in the hands of the Legion and the legions reluctant to give that back to the regiment. Once again, Cliff had to come up with a very crafty way to to get that back in the hands of the regiment and Cliff if you could just tell those two stories and without you won't go to jail there will be any other than that but it's

Jamie just finished telling him not once but twice perpetrated a theft, but I prefer to think of it as a liberation. The World War I, the First World War colors were hung in the rotunda of the legislature in Regina for years and years and years and during the Vietnam War there was a real feeling that anything military should be put aside and not displayed. and so they were to be buried forever more in the bowels of the legislature. And as Jamie said, I had a veteran from the First World War come to me and said, was there any chance of seeing his colors once more before he passed away? And we found out where they were. And on a given day, we put on our uniforms and our medals and took out our swords and put swords on our rifles, other units called bayonets.

And we marched up the steps of the legislature when it had been paroched. very few people there. We said, we're here, and the security people said, here to do what? I said, surely, to goodness, you must have got a piece of paper that you were to go downstairs and open up this room. And we brought flagpoles and we'll put these colors on flagpoles. We'll march them out. He said, I don't know anything about it. I said, well, the cameras are outside, everyone's there. So he went down into the basement and opened it up and we put them on, marched them out. and St. Paul's Cathedral, which is about three blocks away, has agreed to display them, and they've hung in the transept of the cathedral ever since they're falling apart, but they're

there for people to see. And the other was the regimental painting. When I was the commanding officer in 1977, I got a bill for the insurance for the regimental painting, and I had no idea what they were talking about. No one knew about a regimental painting. And we said, we're not paying for something that may have been destroyed or is in someone's basement. And the adjutant went and found and he said that the regiment had commissioned an artist named O.N. Fisher to paint this painting in

1948 of the regimental landing in Normandy and they loaned it to the old Regina Museum and when it closed its doors in 1955 the regiment loaned it to the Legion and it was hanging in the inside of the Legion door and I'd seen it many times going into the Legion but you couldn't make

anything out after the millions of cigarettes and cigars had been smoked. There was a patina completely covered the painting. And so I paid the insurance and I phoned the manager of the Legion to say that I covered the insurance and I'd like to borrow it for one night to show the officers at a regimental dinner. And he said, no, that painting doesn't leave the Legion. I said, excuse me, but I think I'm the registered owner of that painting. And he said, quote, I don't give a rat's ass what you think.

It's not leaving the Legion. So they called in the DCO and the RSM and here's the situation. Here's the mission. Here's how I want you to execute it. days later they had white coveralls. They had a white van and dropped cloths and squeegee buckets. And they went down to Legion. They were cleaning all the Legion windows and covering paintings and cleaning the windows around there and took this painting off the wall and put it by the front door and cleaned some more windows and put it in the van and drove it. And we

waited to hear, you know, we were going to take it back obviously. And some three months went by and the manager for me again. He said, I understand you people might know where the painting is. I said it was the strangest thing when you said you didn't give a rat's ass what I thought. somehow I didn't up here. He said, okay, wise guy, how about we have it for six months? And you have for six months. I said, well, that's fine. How about if my six months start today? And the phone was slammed in my ear. It's been there for since. And when I was going through my dad's papers, my dad was on city council in the 1940s, and it was my dad and one of the company commanders from the invasion who unveiled the painting. So the father unveiled it in 1948, and the son stole it in 1977 or 78.

It's been there ever since. So thanks, Jamie. And if I end up doing time for this, I expect you to come and visit me. I'll bust you out. Now, just let me quickly get into this. The Regina Rifles motto is, and I should say the Royal Regina Rifles,

our motto is swift and bold. And if that doesn't capitally swift and bold and having a set of balls to do stuff to get it done right, nothing does. So this is why the Regina Rifles is what we are. And it's from these gentlemen here that taught McDonald's myself

how to be men. So thank you. Great. Any final thoughts before I let you out of here? I've really appreciated. I've said it and I'll keep saying it. You never know what an encounter certainly on this side of the mic is going to do. I get to talk to people every day of the week.

And then every once in a while you bump into somebody and I've been telling stories of Jamie all weekend, it seems. And yet here I am and I'm meeting more and it's a friendship that continues to grow. and as it does, I get to meet more people that have, you know, such interesting stories and have seen and experienced lots of what the world has to offer. So if you have any thoughts, I don't mean to shut it down. I just watch the time, and I know that both of you have been very generous this morning with giving me a few moments. I'd wrap up, Sean, by saying that, you know, I'm a husband and I'm a father and I'm a grandfather.

And I've maintained life insurance just in case on my life. I've maintained house insurance just in case on my house. I've maintained car insurance just in case. And if I have a big concern today, I look at the country of Canada, and I don't think that our insurance premiums have kept up, and I don't think that our coverage has kept up. And when I listen to the Chief of the Defense staff, and then the commanders of the Army and Navy and Air Force,

saying we just can't do things that we have to be able to do in a time where the world seems to be, if not on fire, there's certainly a lot of sparks and embers and smoke flying around. And I think it's time that the Canadian people demanded that an insurance policy be taken out to protect this country. And that's probably my biggest single concern right now, as I say, the oldest guy here and a retired guy. So thanks for having me on your program this morning.

Sean, I would leave with two things, if I might. The first is it's often forgotten that when, when one deploys overseas on operations into a theater of war or wherever, people are left behind. My wife is a pilot in the Royal Canadian Air Force, and I know what it's like to take Gillian to the airport and watch her fly away. She did three tours flying in Afghanistan, and three times I took her to the airhead to the airport,

watched her fly away and then serve tours in Afghanistan. And I went home to an empty house. you know so I know what it's like to be the other the significant other while your partner or spouse your loved one is going off to harm's way so there's a whole side to that too so the young men and women who go off and do the job are always supported by family who have to go home to that empty house until the loved one hopefully returns that's significant the other thing that I would offer is that this project known as Operation Calvedos, one of the pillars, one of the things that's happening,

the Reson Debt for it, is we're taking this 8-foot,000-pound statue to Normandy. It's in Normandy now, as we speak. It will be unveiled next month. It represents a connection between Canada, France, certainly Saskatchewan and the Normandy region when the battle was fought there. And I would encourage the young people of the province in Canada or at large that you get a chance to go to France, go to the village of Brettville in Normandy,

and this statue is there to celebrate that connection, not celebrate the sacrifice, but in remembrance of the sacrifice. Again, it's an eight-foot-tall statue of a Regina Rifleman advancing through Normandy from the beaches inland to do the job that General Walker talked about, about pushing the Nazi Germans out of France, out of Belgium, out of Holland and ending the Second World War.

And it's a beautiful statue that shows a man with determination doing a job that he didn't want to do, but he's getting it done. And that's going to be there for a long time, I hope. I hope Cliff, nobody packs that up and tries to put it away, or maybe you'll have to be sent over again to get it back for us. But anyway, strong encouragement for anybody from Saskatchewan or Canada, get over and see that. It's going to be unveiled on the 5th of June, the day before D-Day 80th Anniversary Celebrations. and well worth the trip at some point to take your family over and see that, I would say.

Thanks, gentlemen.