Shaun Newman Podcast - #663 - Drew Weatherhead

Episode Date: June 19, 2024

He has his black belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, recently released his second book “Layers of Truth” and hosts the Social Disorder Podcast. Let me know what you think. Text me 587-217-8500 Substack:https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcast E-transfer here: [e-mail] Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/ Email: [e-mail] Text: [phone] – and be sure to let them know you’re an SNP listener. Ticket for Dr. James Lindsay “Parental Rights Tour”: https://brushfire.com/anv

This is Tom Bodrovics. This is Alex Kraner. This is Sean Alexander. This is Tanner today. This is Tom Romago. This is Moka Bezergian. And you're listening to Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast.

Happy Wednesday. How's everybody doing today? You know, with the world just getting, you know, it's a degree by day. It feels like the world continues to get crazier. And, you know, now might be the perfect time to diversify some of your herd and savings into physical money that can't be printed. Yes, I'm talking golden silver. Yes, I'm talking my.

favorite precious metals dealer here in Alberta, Silver Gold Bowl. They offer a full suite of services to help you buy, sell, and store your precious metals. They ship metal discreetly, fully insured, and with tracking, straight to you. And no worries, they are North Americawide.

So if you're down in the state, silvergoldbill.com up here in Canada, silvergoldbill.com. And if you're wanting more details, text or email, Graham, down in the show notes, for details, or if you just want to say, hey, thanks for supporting the SMP. That's cool, too.

The parental rights tour. I was just in, I still am in Calgary for an injection of Truth Town Hall, and that was quite an event with quite a panel of doctors. Well, coming up next is the parental rights tour featuring Dr. James Lindsay. That is this Friday, June 21st in Bonneville. I'll be there. Eminton and Red Deer on Saturday, June 22nd, on Sunday in Calgary and Monday in Brooks. Tickets down in the show notes.

If you don't know who Dr. James Lindsay is, He's an American author, has his Ph.D. in mathematics and hosts the new Discourse's podcast. He's also been on the Joe Rogan experience multiple times. Caleb Taves Renegade Acres, our community spotlight this week is here in Lloydminster. Bill Tufts is going to be Friday, June 21st at the Ark Church. He is talking the Canadian housing crisis. If you want more info, go to Lloydminster Watchdog. It's free to attend, and he's best-selling author of Pension Ponzi and Contributed...

Oh man, contributor to the Western Standard and the Epoch Times. So that's Bill Tufts. Canadian housing crisis, blanket rezoning, mass immigration. It's going to be hosted here in Lloydminster. Start at 7 p.m. this Friday, if you can't travel out, and you want something from the Lloydminster community. Kurt Hutchings is probably the guy to get in touch with about that. The deer and steer butchery. It's been 4-H season now for a while.

It's probably just at the end of it. But if you're wanting to get in an animal, whether it be 4-H or anything else, give Amber a call 780870-80-800-700. She is, of course, the new butcheress from Wadena, Saskatchewan, who has been tending to the deer and steer. They can get you hooked up. And, you know, can't forget, it's barbecue and smoking,

season, which means it's the perfect time to fill the freezers with all the smoking and grilling cuts. Reach out today, 780870-80-800700. Erickson Agro Incorporated at Irma, Alberta, Kent and Tosh Erickson, family farm raising, four kids, growing food for our community, and this great country. All right. Substack, if you haven't poked your head over there, we have the Cornerstone Forum and it's full form in four parts. And all you got to do is go to Substack. That's down the show notes. And I think that's what I got for you today.

All right, let's get on to the tale of the tape. He has his black belt and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. He recently released his second book, Layers of Truth, and is the host of the Social Disorder podcast. I'm talking about Drew Weatherhead. So buckle up. Here we go. Welcome to the Shot Numa podcast.

I've got Drew Weatherhead in my studio with me. You know, it's funny, folks. I haven't had to screw up. that monumental proportion. That was a good start. I was really enjoying that. We're running hot now. We got all cylinders flowing. Well, crap. I just mixed my metaphors when I said that. I don't make more coffee. I'm going to rewind the clock here. So for the audience, Drew Weatherheads in studio with me, this is too funny. Oh, man, this sucks. I mean, what are you going to do? Life's going to go on.

You got to give me that coin again. I'm going to give you the coin again. Well, we're going to throw it across. So first off, silver coin, welcome to studio. Absolutely. Welcome to the second time here in the, It's better every time I come. Ah, crap. You know, folks, you know, like, you think you're just getting to the peak of like, I got this under control, and then you screw up all over again, you know, and you don't click the record button.

Regardless, it's good to have you in studio. I mean, I'm going to go through parts of the niceties all over again, just because. You're so nice, though. Oh, God. Silver coin. I just want to make mention, Silver Gold Bull, Alberta Company. you brought me in a coffee

and instead of mentioning the company name because they don't do anything for us we put it in a Clani cup and you picked out the teal for the wife so there you go and I'm picking out the maroon today and it feels you know it's funny when you talk about some of the folks it feels so forced now that we've already had the nice cities

it's like trying to tell a joke twice right the first time has the punchline the second time they know the punchline it's actually not funny anymore did you ever have you ever done that on a podcast before like not press record in certain ways like sometimes the audio will stop and I don't recognize that it stopped and I keep talking for 20 minutes and then I have to figure out where it stopped and think about where I was at

you know in my brain when it stopped it's a mess it's always a mess Carla Treadway just this is forgive me carla was this two weeks ago three weeks ago she sent me a message asking me if I'd ever done it before and I'm like oh yeah I made that mistake quick dick mcdick first podcast he's ever been on was never recorded episode zero between me and him had a great conversation Sunday night at like 10 at night, sat and had a couple beers with them. Midnight came around. Yeah, thanks for doing this. I'm like so excited.

And no files there. I'm like, so I text him and he's like, I'll come back on if you want. Like right now, I'm like right now. It's like now it's like 1230. He's like, yeah, sure, whatever. I don't care. And I'm like, but this time he's had a few. I've had a few.

I'm like, this is giving crap. We actually waited a week and did it over again. You could probably never tell. But, man, that was a frustrating moment. This is a frustrating moment. Carla just did it with a guest and asked for advice. And then, you know, it became a funny, it becomes a funny memory, right? Yeah, you want to reach out to your CIA agent to say, can you, you know, I know you're listening to me.

Can you just send me the files real quick? Can you just send me? What we were talking about, I saw, I'm a huge Lord of the Rings fan. Once upon a time when they came out in theaters, they used to come out at midnight. I don't know, they still do that. I don't know. I don't think they do. I don't think they do.

I don't know why they, it could be wrong. But back in the day, 2003-ish, somewhere in there? 2001 was the first one was when Fellowship of the Ring came out. Okay, so when Fellowship of the Ring was coming out, I would have been grade 10. And I convinced, I don't know how hard I had to convince them, but I convinced a group of friends. I was a good salesman, I guess. A group of like 10 of us went out, stood in line at 11 o'clock at night, got in the theater at midnight because it used to be, and I assume it's still this way somewhere.

you could start showing the movie the day of its release. So midnight on the day it came out. So Lloyd May's Cinema Theaters would open the theater at midnight. And, well, 11.30 you could get in. And then they'd show them, like, think of that movie is like three hours long. So from midnight to three in the morning, you're watching Lord of the Rings, and then you go to school. And so I saw, you know, if you haven't been paying attention to the social disorder,

I, you know, I scroll through your headlines, and they pop up on the podcast, on my app. And I'm looking and I'm like, Lord of the Rings. I'm going to have to listen to that. I knew what you were doing with the title, too. I clicked baited all of the geeks. You sucked me in. And what we were talking about before we got rolling here,

or as we got rolling and didn't record, it was like this epiphany. You said it, like, right at the start of it. I forget how you said it, but you said it, and I'm like, man, I've had this same thought. Now, I don't know if it's a new thought or if I'm just, like, way late to the game.

It's probably the latter. But essentially, you know, I'm reading Atlas Shrugged. It's a fantastic book And the idea that You know Popped in my head is like man When the world gets so utterly crazy

Like think of all the stuff we're seeing right now From Russia, Ukraine On and on and on To pedophilia to just COVID to You know and at times The middle just puts its head Put the blinders on and just walks forward

You know? And it's like How the heck do you break through to those people And then you read a book like Atlas Shreux or on and on it goes, right? There's lots. C.S. Lewis and Lord of the Rings and, you know, Dune even, like different books like that,

that are a critique of where society is or where it's going, but in a story non-fiction, or fictional story, fictional format. So people, it hits people that don't want to believe what's going on in a way. I don't know. Does that make sense? It does. And I think that it's a brilliant way of trying to,

I don't know if educate is the right word. but allow for people to become aware in their own subconscious, because they're not consciously aware of what the message is being told, but it resonates with the subconscious, and this is what Young talked about a lot, right, is that we recognize the world around us through archetypes, whether it's the king, the jest, or the joke, or the drag, and this is what Jordan Peterson talks about all the time.

And he and Jung describe it explicitly, but we internalize these things implicitly. So if you're watching Chronicles of Narnia and you see Aslan as a lion, and you can disassociate with the reality that there's probably not a talking lion out there and actually re-associate it with the iconographic architecture or archetypes that he's meant to represent. And if you're just, you know, disassociating from your disbelief for the sake of entertainment, you'll still onboard the truth that's coming through the storytelling, which is why it's such a brilliant way to try to inform people is through story,

because not a lot of people want to sit through a lecture, but a lot of people want to sit through entertainment. Yeah, well, I mean, speaking specifically of the lion, he's Jesus. I mean, like literally the line, I mean, he's not, but I mean, it's, that's what, that's what character he's playing. It is, but you don't have to be a Christian to recognize that architect, which is why it speaks to the masses. I agree, but even his lines towards the end of, I want to say, the third and final movie, I don't know where that is in the series of books. I didn't end up reading those books, which is interesting.

to me because I watched him and I'm very fascinated at how he built that world. I've since read screw tape letters, which is fantastic and have started to understand that him and Tolkien, because there's a movie out of between him and Tolkien and the discussion they had around Christianity and everything. But you listen to the lines, lines, lion, lions? That's a hard one. The lion says at the end, talking to the girl about whether or not he's in their world. And there's like three, four lines.

I had to pause it and rewind it and just listen to it again. Now, this comes from a guy who's started reading the Bible and started praying in different things, and I'm like, oh, my God, I've watched this before. I never caught that. Like, it didn't even, it registered, right, on some low level, but it didn't register. I was just there for entertainment. It's a talking line. He's a cool character.

But you go back to the first one, the resurrection of Azland, where he gets killed in a really weird, rich, and the things he says around that is really interesting as well. So I just, I guess I don't know why it hit me here in like the last week. I'm like, oh my God. And then somebody's like, oh, so you're going to write a book. I'm like, that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm just saying there will be books that come out of now that are, I would say, similar to the quality that came out of the late 30s to,

you know, where, where does it cut off? I don't know if there is a cutoff. But certainly it seems like they're from the late or early 30s to like the start of the 60s. There are some books out there that are just classics. And when you read them, you understand why, right? Like, why is 1984 so good? Because it's well written and it's a critique

on where society was going. And we're living part of that story. It's just wild to me. And I don't know why it's so wild. And I don't know why it just hit me like a ton of hammers earlier this week. And then, of course, I started listening to your one ring to rule them all. And I was like, oh, man, there's, you know, it's just, now I just see it everywhere. I'm like, how did I see this?

You know, you get a puzzle piece. Something just, ooh, fits in. You're like, oh, and there it is again. Yeah, there it is again. Yeah, that's the thing about truths is they can become understood cognitively after they're already understood implicitly. So if you know that something is true just inside, even subconsciously, and you find something to plug it into or that there's an avatar for after the fact consciously, you'd be like,

boom, epiphany. It's not that you didn't really know that, is that it hadn't been connected yet. And again, I'm going to, I'm going to use Young over and over because this is basically his sandbox is where he talks about the unconscious or the subconscious. And, you know, he had a line I'm going to probably paraphrase where he said, if you don't understand the workings of the unconscious, you will allow it to direct your life and call it fate. Because you just don't understand where the affects are coming from. And it's not that there isn't an unconscious, is that you're unconscious of it, right? So if you don't recognize what it does in you, then you might recognize its affects in your life simply as happenstance instead of directed from what's going on internally.

With Yume, where did he fall on God? Now, you know what's funny is I was having a conversation with I would assume an agnostic, if not atheistic friend yesterday about this because he's very scientifically steeped and it almost annoys me to a point because that's where the periphery of his acceptability ends. But I would say in the reading I've done on Jung, which isn't his entire corpus, but it's a significant amount. There are some interesting writings in there that actually get on my friend's nerve because they get very esoteric and actually like quasi-religious. and I would say that he believed in God, but he had a much broader meta-construction than any specific orthodoxy. Sure. So he lived in a world where it was typical in the Western society to have, you know,

a Christian or Catholic orthodoxical view of God. And he sort of represented some of his big thoughts through that, but I don't know if you would say he was canonically Christian. Does that make sense? Yeah, I think it, I think that's where a lot of society's at today. Right? Where they're like,

well, I believe in God, but maybe not the way any one religion lays it out. And then that becomes the discussion of, well, well, you know,

like is this, is this thought that you have to go this one way to get to God? Or can you go one of 10,000 ways to get to God? Yeah, and this is the dance that people have been doing since time of a war. Well, well, this is,

you know, um, I think it was, with Ken Drysdale. We're wrestling with such large ideas. We've always been wrestling with such large ideas. But for me, and maybe I'm wrong on this, I feel like a healthy portion of the population is now wrestling with a large question. You know, is it 10%? Is it 20%? I don't know. There's a percent there that kind of just, and I'm speaking specifically to Canada, I can't speak to other countries. I just, I see it playing out, so it's probably more than just us.

but like there was a time there in Alberta it was in cruise control making money you know on and on and on it was a good times it was a good times and people are still doing that it's not that you can't but you know the government we're just strange you know you brought up

before we started recording about Saudi Arabia and not renewing the 50 year agreement on on the US dollar the petro dollar right and you go well that's you know is that going to change things overnight. No, but the writing is on the wall for where we're heading, right? People are moving away from the U.S. dollar, and it's happening faster and faster. Now, fast at

this point is like, you know, how fast are we talking? Well, it could be weeks, could be months, could be years, but the die has been set. We're moving that direction and over the course of our lifetime, because we're roughly the same age. What you were you on? Yeah, 83. Yeah, you're a couple years older than 86 on this side. In our kids' lifetime, they're going to not know the protection, well, not protection. Well, maybe the protection. The protection of the US Della. Sure,

the stability. That's the word I was looking for. Yeah, it's going to change. You know what's interesting is it's, I think it's typical because humans are very short-lived creatures in the broad scope of things. Maybe we can get 100 years out of one life, but probably not. A lot of people

die off between 50 and 80, right? It's actually not a long time when it comes to world history. And I was watching a time lapse of the borders of states in the United States over a 200-year period. And to watch the meander like rivers in fast motion, it's wild to recognize that, man, there hasn't been a border change in my entire lifetime.

Does that mean that there's not going to be a border change? Would it be shocking to me if there was? Why would it be shocking to me if there was? They happen all the time on a broader scale. And, you know, people were at that point talking about, separation of Quebec, separation of Alberta, separation of the West, addition to the U.S., like all of these things that over a broader geological scope would make perfect sense, but in our lifetime, it's like, this is world ending.

It's like, is it really or is it just the first time we've seen it as this tiny finite creature? Yeah. Because, you know, when we went to Ottawa, I was talking with my uncle Jack, and he remembers back the grain protests. And when the other Trudeau came through, they filled his hotel room or how long, lobby of the hotel full of grain. I'm like, I don't think we'd have the guts. I shouldn't say that about people

because we did go to Ottawa. Yeah, the Dutch had their manure. Which is better than grain, I guess. And the Canadians at that time spread manure on his home as well. Oh, there you go. So like, you know, and then I got Randy Hillier coming on

in the next two weeks. I forget when he's coming on. Anyways, two weeks, roughly. And he got talking about a group. I got to look further into it, so I'm going to. But he was just talking about how, like, they've they've in Canada

protesting is not something new like and to the levels that maybe the freedom convoy although for where we were at with the world in COVID was something new like it sounded like they'd shut down parliament multiple times and the cops couldn't do nothing to them

and he was telling me a story about selling cattle on on parliament and I was like oh this is I'm fascinated I can't wait to and so you go like with the borders would it shock us

Well, ships being in Cuba, Russian ships, with, they're saying, oh, there's no nuclear weapons. I'm like, uh-huh. We heard this story. They just literally traveled around the world and they brought nothing. Just rainbow flags to wave. Yeah, it's just a cool harbor, right? That's right. We can sit there and you look at it and you go, oh, wow.

I never thought I'd see this. I heard all the stories about Cold War and the Bay of Pigs and all these different things go on. And here we sit. and I'm terrified at times because he got Biden who can't like man you can't even find a place to sit half the time can't tie together two sentences but on the end I say you got Justin Trudeau or like on our side sorry Justin Trudeau is his neighboring ally

Confidon and I just see them like I'm just like how are we at well I know why weak men create these times But you know you're up against Putin lover hate Putin man He is I've listened Sound of mind at the very least At the very least and very structured and knows what he's fighting. And those things are, well, you put them all together

and you get a very formidable opponent. Where military guys in our own country are like, I wouldn't want to mess with that right now. We're not ready. We're not even remotely in the headspace. We're more worried about menstrual drugs in the men's locker room. And, I mean, man, we're in the month of pride for Pete's sake, right? The month.

The month. The season soon to be. Yeah, I just did a whole episode on that. There's some weird esoteric connections to old world religions when it comes to Pride Month. They used to have a festival that was one month long in the month of June, which, you know, it wasn't the Gregorian calendar back then, but basically overlaps it, to the god Ishtar, which was a god of sexuality. And specifically, sort of bisexuality, she could change form from male to female.

And she was a god of promiscuity and prostitution. It was very interesting correlations that we find ourselves totally. totally removed from that type of religious or religiosity in our society and still end up with a month in the same month, you know, for basically ostensibly the same reasons. There's a weird spirit to the whole thing. It's a very dark spirit. Mm-hmm. Right? Like a... A familiar spirit, maybe.

Oh, probably. You know? This is what people, I think, are running headlong into, like you're saying, they're opening their minds the possibility of the ethereal more than they have maybe in a few years previous to this. And they're starting to see things maybe through a different lens or perspective. that opens up the possibility of things that were always ever present, but maybe just not on your radar. Yeah. There's a lot going on these days.

Like, what do you've been staring at? Like, you're rattling off as much content as anyone I know. You have a very healthy grasp. Every time you come in the studio, I'm always amazed that maybe the leaps and bounds you've taken as a host, as a guest, both, you know. to me it's very evident. You and my wife, you know, you came to the Cornerstone Forum

and I got the video back from the boys and it was a trailer, so I put it on on social media. And my wife goes to me, don't you take this the wrong way? And I'm like, okay. And she's like, you've really improved as a public speaker. And I'm like, oh, well, I mean, 800-some podcast, I guess I've found a way to tie a couple sentences together, right?

Like, but that's nice. And I always think when you come in, you were the first person I ever noticed. it with. I've noticed it with a lot of others now. But you set across for me after probably the second time we'd ever discussed anything. And I was like, oh, my crap, you can verbally, audibly, not verbally, audibly hear the difference in the way your brain works, how you're constructing arguments, your thought process, what you're thinking about. And so I guess, you know, as a guy who sits there, I was just talking to Wayne Peters about this. You know, we get running so headlong

now into our own projects and interviews and talking to people and for you, your solos and everything else, I wonder, what's got Drew's attention right now that's really sticking out to him? So I could go a bunch of different directions, but I want to keep it really broad because we can get lost in the milieu really quick if we're starting to be around the bush. But broadly speaking, I'm looking mostly towards the types of things that are interesting you right now, which is curious again that we're finding our ways individually along somewhat of the same path for maybe differing specific reasons but I think broadly maybe the same spirit of the same idea is into the theological I've been going much deeper into that and it was kind of like for people who

have been following my books the second one that was released this year it is called layers of truth and it ends off, it ends off basically where I am continuing on. So I expect that there's probably going to be a third one sometime in my life, but it may be a much longer process to get to, because there was about a year between my first and second book, and this one might be like five to ten years before the next one, because what I'm doing is really exploring what I call the theologic pillar. So I've got a construct that I use in both of my previous books,

where I say, and this is just my conception, but it seems to be a good placeholder to sort of parse your reality through, to have a well-balanced worldview, you need to rest it upon three pillars. One is the scientific, one is the philosophic, and one is the the theologic. And for the derision or atrophy of any one of those triumvirate, you're going to get a disbalance in your worldview. And what I found in introspection, after writing this book about all of that in detail, is that if I were to look at myself, I need to do serious work on the theologic because I've left that one for the better part of 10 years, where the first 30 years of my life, I was raised in a very Christian family.

You know, I was like, there was no questions behind that belief whatsoever for like three decades of my life. I'm only 41 right now. So that's most of the time I've been on planet Earth. And then for a period of time, I was fully disabused of it. And through the pillars of the rationalistic, the empirical, the scientific, the philosophical, and I figured that that was the zero-sum end all of that equation. And then when it came down to it over, say, the pandemonium of a SARS-CoV-2 pandemic, suddenly it turned out that the philosophical and the scientific were left wanting.

In fact, I saw a lot of flaws, a lot of flaws. They did not come with any sort of life raft for people that were in positions of concern. And when they did, they turned out to be greatly lacking. And what I think, and this is just my consideration from my own perspective, is a lot of people found or felt that same thing of like, what is the answer here? Because science isn't helping. Philosophy is just leading to more science. Why is there a disconnect? It feels like there's a missing piece in here. And whether they had it there and leaned on it in the time they needed it, or they're the,

they leaned on something they didn't have in the time they needed it. They both came to the same conclusion that there needs to be a reassessing or reinforcing of that third pillar of the theological, and that's basically where I'm at right now. That's interesting. That's a very healthy answer, I would say. I got to interview Frank Pretty, right? Yeah, tell me about that. I listen to it, but I want to hear it from your point.

Well, I think at times it's hard. to not build up expectation. His book mapped perfectly over some of the events in my life. And so, like when I found it, I found it under unusual circumstances and to get him on to just, you know, talk to him was surreal.

The hour after we finished recording, I thought, you know, it would be, hey, thanks again for hopping on. We ended up talking for about an hour. I love when that happens. It's some of the best podcast, no one will ever hear. No, but it was for, but it's for you.

That's the thing is like so much of this we do I'm very raw in my way of thinking I think I think and I try not to hold back most times I hop on here and let people in on on everything but every once in a while you get granted this opportunity to sit and share a moment with people

that doesn't need to be recorded doesn't need to be on a phone doesn't be on the social media it doesn't have to be it's just it's for you and Frank Peretti caught something in the way I told the story and he said you know don't let everybody ever tell you you need to race you know like armagedons around the corner and

you need to find he's like it's a journey take your time with it and i really appreciated that from a guy i respected from the way he wrote books and you know i've got a whole stack of them that i'm slowly working my way through um i really appreciate it probably need to hear it you know is like this isn't something where you're you're running as fast as you can go you know i'm not saying don't move, but it's kind of the tortoise and the hair idea, right? Go to pace that you're comfortable with and keep learning about it and working on it. And someday you're going to look back and go, how my heck did I get over here? And at times, I really feel like that. I'm like, how on earth am I over here, you know, where when this releases last week, I got to have on the Canadian National

President of Disciple Christian Motorcycle Club. And he was a giant of a man sitting where you were. And I'm like, you know, this is cool. I don't know how I got here. But I've been wrestling with that pillar, if you would. Because I guess I talk about it different, but in a similar thought process, is I was digging or pulling on a thread, however you want to look. I think of like digging, trying to find where I want to put my foundation on, right? And the start, it's like, I don't know, some sandy spot.

And you're like, well, I can't, if I put it there, it's, you know, like, and eventually I just hit this thunk. and for me it was the Bible started reading it in a time that was you know was COVID and we me and you don't have to sit and go back through all the insanity it continues to spill out

you know as twos would say the co-vindication just keeps popping up everywhere right? I love that I do that's great and COVID you know like so you

try it like nothing makes sense at times right now nothing makes sense then you pick up this old book you start reading it and you're like oh man I've been looking for this everywhere. And I mean, there's obviously more to it than just that. But for me, that's become a pillar.

It's really become somewhere to like, here's my foundation. Okay, I got to wrestle with what is written in here and what Jesus said and all the things in there. But this is something I can rely on to give me some guidance in the world where, like, you know, we are doing insane things. We're saying insane things. And insanity continues to pick up, not dampen down. So Frank Paredi, yeah, it was, man, that was a treat, you know.

That was a real treat, a surreal moment on the podcast that I didn't even know who he was less than a year ago. Less a year ago, I had zero clue who he was. Yeah, and not only a treat, but so timely, isn't the man in his 90s at this point? Like to have somebody that, you know, does not have much time left on God's Green Earth to be able to have an interpersonal connection with. I think he's in his 70s. Don't quote me on that.

I think he's in his late 70s, but he has, I think, throat cancers. I don't, I don't want to, but it's some ailment. But you're not wrong. He's been through a lot. He's written some profound books, and I seem to talk about an awful lot on here. I read him, I'm like, how is in this a movie? I mean, obviously I know. You talked about that, right?

But, you know, I fully understand that, and it is a treat and a pleasure in the position that we're at, that we have the ability to do that from time to time. You know, while I was listening to you, talk a really good analogy, by the way, of, you know, thunk when you're digging for something and finding that base, because I'm somewhat jealous that you have, to be honest, because I'm still in that digging process. And it's a process that, if I were to continue the analogy, if you're digging, you're digging in the dark,

waiting for something to land on that. you can at least have some foundation. The kids today call it based. I'm based, right? Well, what are you based on? Where is your anchor? What is it actually connect to? And for people that were disabused of her base before,

it's a continual effort of almost like a flashlight in the dark kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, I can kind of see around with my little flashlight of discernment and wisdom that I've gained along the way that might, you know, grow in brightness or in latitude from time to time as you go, but you're still kind of lost while you're doing it. And there's this ideal or dichotomy that Peterson talks about in his book Maps of Meaning, where it's a difference between chaos and order. And there's a great way to conceptualize the idea of information. And it's something that I talk about a lot in my second book, too,

is the idea that we live subjectively in an objective world. And when you understand what that means, it means that nobody actually knows what the totality of what's going on is. So we have to sort of discover for, round out, and square what we think is going on based against the best things that we come across in our time to do so. And to continue that search is basically an effort to remain in chaos. Where again, going back to Peterson's conception of this, chaos and order would be the same as the known and the unknown.

So if you know something, at least you can categorize that known thing into something, say, for example, in the animal world, it'll be between dangerous and safe, right? So in his book, he says, if you take a rat, like a laboratory of rat, and put it into a cage it's never been in before, the first thing that it's going to do, and it should do is it freezes. It doesn't move. It stands perfectly still. And then after a little bit, it'll wiggle its nose, and then it'll start looking around. Then when it starts feeling safe, it'll move a little bit because they got taken from a position

of known where they knew what the environment should be categorized as into a place of complete unknown, which means it's it's not that it's dangerous. It's that they don't know that it's not dangerous, which is worse. You'd rather know that it's dangerous because then it's in the realm of the known than to not know where you are in a spectrum, a total spectrum of absolutely safe to absolutely dangerous. That's chaos. That's anarchy. And the human mind cannot abide that. It's a state that we actually rationalize as, well, I don't actually know what's going on, but I'm going to at least pretend that I do just so I can feel better about the unknown that I'm still existing in.

And so it's this balance and almost like battle between grounding myself in something I can say is known and trying not to rationalize something just for the sake of the safety it brings. That's an interesting, well, he says something there. Like, I guess jealousy, that is something I do. I usually get harassed about how I've changed, you know? Like it's, it's, it's, that sticks out to me. There's worse change out there. You could be a crackhead.

Oh, 100%. I actually think about a loss. I'm like, you know, if why people stop listening or harass me is because I start reading the Bible, praying a bit and going to church, I'm like, man, alive. We got big problems in the world, you know, but it's funny. People don't like change. Some people love it, right? If it aligns with where they're at, then they love it. But if it goes against where they're at, then they're like, screw you.

But it's interesting because, like, I brought this up multiple times. wife and I wife and I started reading a book together so read a chapter, discuss, kind of like a married couple book club if you would

except it's slow because, you know, it's difficult. We've got kids in work. Yeah, you know, at the same time to read

sometimes. That's right, and we're sharing the same book and, you know, it just goes on and on. She bought a book. Nine ways to connect to God.

And I couldn't help myself. I just started reading it. And I finally stop because I'm like, okay, I want to talk about this with her, and we have to finish her other book before we get to it. So now it's like incentive for me to get through the other book,

which is more in line with parenting kids. Regardless, this nine ways to connect to God has been fascinating to me, and we just went to Man Camp, Joshua Allen, and I think I kind of witnessed part of it, even in myself, right? And the nine ways to connect to God rattles off is, you know, like some people need the quiet space, nobody around. the quiet space out in wilderness. Some people need music.

Some people need smells. Some people need, you know, on and on it goes. There's nine different thought processes it goes through. And I'm like, ah, I never really thought about that before, you know. Like the Catholic Church really bugs me. It has nothing to do with you Catholics. It's just, you know, sit down, stand up, sit down, stand up. I really like the duration.

Everybody knows I'm a time person. I like that it doesn't go four hours, right? where a Pentecostal service can go. It may never end. It can go a long time, right? And so, you know, I got, you know, that's fascinating. That's like really, it's really fascinating. Because, you know, I, for some reason, like, if I could,

if I could paint a picture of where I'd like to be, it'd be like sitting in a quiet space outside the sunshine and perfect day. And, you know, you get the Bible and you get to pray. That's like perfect. Whereas some person might need a little bit of music to jumpstart the, engine if you would or they might need to go physical exertion and and and wherever that is right you think of somebody hiking a mountain or something and others just need to be around people and and when it comes to this this uh this search i always find to me it always shocks me you know how I ran into

it because I was as much as I was searching for it I wasn't like on the podcast talking about searching for it right it was more of a mentality of like I don't know how the world works You know, and I see that in you. I see that a lot of people, right? And I go, oh, sometimes it's just going to run you over, and you're going to have to pull yourself back together. Maybe I'm wrong on that. I don't think so.

I think it's a process. It's never quite as linear as we think it is. There is a poem I've used in both of, I shouldn't say a poem, it's more of a quote from H.P. Lovecraft I've used in both of my books. That can kind of paraphrase, but it states something to the effect of, It's the most merciful thing in the world, I think, man's inability to correlate the contents of his mind.

We exist as we exist on placid aisles of ignorance amidst seas of black infinity. And it wasn't meant that we should travel far. The sciences, each stretching in their own right, have hitherto harmed us little. But in the future, the piecing together of disassociated knowledge will open up terrifying vistas. and of our frightful position therein. And basically he ends off with saying, we have either one of two options at that point. We can become paralyzed from the grandeur of the unknown.

Or we can shrink back into the silence and comfort of our own little Heidi holes, more or less is what he says there. And I don't think, now I don't disagree with that. I obviously put it in both of my books for, reason. But I don't think that it is a binary that is stagnant. It's not a stationary. You either choose A or B. I think you can go back and forth from each and you can venture out from your island of ignorance into the terrifying vista of the seas of black unknown as many times as you want. Well, that's what a kid does. That's what Peterson talks about. The parent is the known and the

safety and it goes venturing out because everything's new to a child, right? And out it goes. and then it goes and then runs back and then back and forth, back and forth. In your walk, in your journey and your search, you think then you're going to read something that just clicks and boom, you're like, oh, this is the way the world works.

Because you've had an interesting journey, right? Like, as you pointed out, Christian upbringing, not a problem, to, you know, there's nothing, or some pragmatic thought process of like this is how it works to, wait a second, I'm missing something, and now you're digging,

you're writing, right? Like you're doing as much work on this is probably what, 0.01% of all of Canada. I would argue, right? Like how many people are spending, not every waking moment, but not far off of that, wrestling with large ideas.

Well, I wish more people were, but I guess in the position that I'm at, it's, I understand why they wouldn't. It's very comfortable on your placid island of ignorance. And that's not to say that people are ignorant out there, They're just not doing the work to try to enlighten themselves in any way that is beyond what they need to get through the day. And that's, I understand it. That's perfectly reasonable, rational, and probably safe, right?

It's the idea of to go back to archetypes and archetypal stories of the hobbiton, right? The shire where the hobbits reside is it's safe there. It's comfortable. You understand the orthodoxies. You can just, you know, go out for your potluck dinner, come back and sleep in a warm bed. instead of going out into the unknown mountains and fighting ogres and trolls and orcs and everything else, the literally the essence of demonic power and the ring of power. You don't have to do that.

You can spend a quiet life and just live within the parameters that you were told to live, but you also don't have to do that. And if you go off the path, pass the parameters of what is considered safe or a acceptable. You're going to run into an encounter all sorts of different things that you're going to have to rationalize for yourself because you weren't supposed to be there to begin with. Right? People are like, well, just get back on the road. It'll be safer on the road. But you'd be like, but I just saw the thing. Do you, you, have never looked at the thing before? And then, like, you go down these other roads and you start becoming this, uh, unintentional

trailblazer for your own sake. And I don't know, like, where there's almost like a circuitous nature to us. Like, you get so far off of the path that you're like, was. this a good idea at all? And, you know, that that became evident again. Like I get, you could say that I got off of the orthodoxical Christian path in my early 30s. And maybe it took me most of a decade to come back to the point of, was this a good idea at all? And what I basically came to the conclusion of is I had sterilized something out of my life that was necessary. It's like I killed my own gut biome basically because I wasn't, I was afraid of bacteria, you know? It turns out there's actually a reason for it. This is something that people will know as as Chesterton's fence.

So G.K. Chesterton was a polymath in maybe like the early 1900s. And he had a conception that became, you know, tied to his name, Chesterton's fence, this idea of a fence where, again, I'll paraphrase. I'm trying to remember out of my book without reading it because all this stuff's in there. But he said, say for the sake of argument, somebody comes across something, let's say a fence crossing a road that blocks their way. A more modern reformer might come up to it and say, I don't see the stake of this fence and I'm going to clear it away. But a more rational reformer would say, well, if you don't see the sake of that fence, I absolutely won't let you clear it away. Go away and think and come back. And once

you can tell me why that's there, then maybe we can clear it away. And that's the problem that I don't think a lot of people, myself included, take into account before they start making what seem like minor changes to a complex system that ends up having emergent results down the path of chaos theory and you realize maybe you shouldn't have removed that fence or that Pandora's box or whatever analog you want to use because suddenly things are much more different after the fact. And that's not to say that we can prevent change, but that's also to lend credence to the guidelines that you wanted to break to begin with. And it's that dance back and forth because we are kind of our own worst enemy in that way. Dostoevsky speaks to that a lot about just man's

persistence to literally self-immolate himself just as if to prove he's a man and not like a piano key or a date on a calendar, something that's derivative is that I can be crazy. I've got chaos in me and I'm more than just the derivative sum of my material parts. That's part of the drive I think that keeps me going is the balance and the dance between those two things. And like everything, it's not a steady state. I go back and forth on these things, which is why probably, again, I feel almost a sense of longing or jealousy for somebody

who has a base that they can just say like, yeah, no, this is it. This is where I'm at, and I'm good, because I'm still out there fighting the wind, it seems. Well, I'm, I've got my first guy coming on who reads the Quran. And I'm like, no, no, no. I feel pretty comfortable in it. To me, I want to go back out in, you know, like,

there's a lot to be said on what you just rattle off. I don't know. I don't even know what I want to say here, other than like the exploration is a ton of fun, but there's a ton of peril out there. I can't speak for you on this side. I've ran into it lots and just didn't know what was going on. You know, one of my first real, large realizations is that there is a spiritual side to the world.

I was just like, I didn't see that. Nobody talks about it. You kind of laughed everybody out the door for it. And yet, if you get outside of Western culture, everybody acknowledges it there. I mean, everybody tongue and cheek, but you get the point. It's de facto. Yeah, like, of course it is, right? And here we don't talk about it.

or maybe we don't give any time to it. And so that was a real epiphany. Or one of the, I think of the world as a, or maybe my lifetime is putting puzzle pieces together, like a giant 5,000 piece puzzle. Maybe I got like, maybe I got like,

I don't know how much I want to put in here, 100 of those in, maybe, maybe. And just every time you get one in, it's like, oh, that, oh, okay. And so, you know, like people have been on me to go, you know, talk to people doing the psilocybin, all the drugs. What about the cron? What about this? What about that? I'm like, listen,

I'm just trying to get my bearings straight. And I've been wrestling with something that was a pretty big puzzle piece for me. And until I get comfortable with that puzzle piece, you can't just all of a sudden start, you know, going out into the world again because you lose that mooring. I know what comes with that because I've lost the mooring before and you lose the mooring. And you're a kite floating in a in a hurricane like honestly you're just you're holding on for dear life and you have no idea where you're going you're at the the mercy of the storm so to speak and i've been there and i think lots of people have been there covid felt like that for a lot of people maybe not that analogy specifically but um when you have the mooring it's like it doesn't matter what the

world's doing it doesn't matter that russia's gotten possibly nukes sitting there it doesn't matter that the world is just you know they can't make sense of two plus two equals four they want to try and make it something else. And you can almost just laugh at them at some point. You're just like, you know, this matters. But on the grand scheme of things, there's something bigger at play. And once you start to understand that, it's just like, okay, we can talk about different things and not move on with life because we still got to talk about the Russians having news there.

Like, I mean, that's insane. We've got to talk about the U.S. and Saudi Arabia and the 50-year agreement and all that. And all these different things that just keep falling like dominoes. but there is a level of peace that comes with finding where to plant your flag or maybe not plant your flag put your mooring in and uh well i hope that for everybody because i think there there's a level of uh peace that would happen in the world if if more got there i think there'd be a level of peace if more people were willing to let people get there in their own semblance okay so so this is the biggest one of the biggest uh a sale and

assailments that people always cast against theological orthodoxies is, well, you think that your orthodoxy is the zero sum. It's the right one. You found the only one and everybody else's is wrong. It's actually, it's a joke amongst atheists that actually Christians are atheists, except they don't believe no God exists. They only believe theirs exists. So you're actually one God removed from being an atheist. You have the same critical mind with every other religion except for your own. But the same thing is true of every other religion and every other orthodoxy is they think they found the right one and the real struggle and tension that happens historically is when you just can't abide that no yours is not right as mine is right so we're going to kill you over it is basically

where it evolves eventually throughout history but i don't know you you start reading the bible once again i'm going to i probably piss people off all the time right because i'm just new and i'm you know i look at it and i go this is really serious stuff this is really heavy there's there's a lot to it you got to start to ask and start stories and questions whatever to me the the um you know that you can harp on christianity for a lot fair okay fine um i find strange is you know and i've been talking about this lots is you know Islam or or stems from one of the sons of Abraham yeah that's an Islamic belief or sorry an Abrahamic belief correct yes and probably everybody knows that except for Sean right And then I started reading that story and where it stems from, like, that's wild to me.

You know? But here's a crazy thing is if you talk to an orthodoxical Jew, they think the same thing of Christianity is it's a spin-off religion of their reality. Right. Right. Their reality is just Elohim. It's not Yeshua. Yeshua was a false prophet that came along and started a cult back in like 2,000 years ago. And now this cult is still around. They think like they're biting off of our religion.

But Christianity thinks the same thing of. Islam was like no Jesus came first Muhammad came second and Muhammad's just a spin-off cult and it's just a repetition of the same thing which comes back to my point that I wanted to make because I think I think you're like very much along the same path interestingly as I am is like the real meta question isn't do you have an anchor or a mooring although I wish that I could say that I definitely do right now and hope that I can in the future the real meta question is does that mean that that only one of them is right, because that's where the real contention comes in, because then you've got to be like really careful about which one you choose.

But I've come back and forth on this one, and I'm not going to speak like some sage as if I know. Sure. But I can at least just speak to some of the ideas I've had around this. It's like if the idea of the Christian or Jewish or Islamic God or Allah, the one true God, the monotheistic God is true, there's all of the religions that believe in it, state that God is loving God who loves his creation that cares for each individual person more than the sparrows, et cetera, and they have all of these analogs for how important every individual is, but only the ones that get it right are going to be allowed into heaven at the same time.

And each one of them has their own orthodoxical reason of why they're right or wrong. And sorry, you don't believe in Muhammad, you're wrong. You don't believe in Jesus. You're wrong. And meanwhile, you've got like 300 years before the birth of Christ, you've got names. natives down in Brazil that had never had a chance to learn about any of the Abrahamic traditions, but apparently God created them and loves them individually. So where was their chance to get into heaven? You know, and it's these kind of ideas that don't have a really good answer. Now I know that

there's like orthodoxical answers. Like the Catholics would say, well, that's what purgatory is for. They're going to have a time in between earth and heaven to be able to figure it out and they'll have a second chance essentially there. Okay. I mean, that sounds sort of weird, but you're sort of prognosticated. about something we can't actually know, which of course is the place of faith. But again, it seems like it's almost more internal to their own logic than it is something that can be relied upon. And I got to wonder, like, where is the meta-truth? And this is why, I mean, I wrote a book literally about truth itself called layers of truth. And if there is a total truth, there has to be something to that that is accessible to everybody that lives within it. So again, like does, do only, you know,

people in, what would it be the, what is that, the Mormons, right? They only originally believed 144,000 of humans were going to get into heaven or whatever. And then they had more than that in their belief. And it's like, well, apparently more can get in. Don't worry. Keep coming. Keep coming. Right.

They had their ideas. But, you know, they, at some point, there always seems to be in an orthodoxy, like an in or an out crowd that I think runs afoul of their own core belief of that humans are created by God and valuable. individually to him. And it's not to say that everybody, by definition, gets into heaven, but that also doesn't mean that everybody has to believe that it's only through Muhammad. You know what I mean? I had, well, to me, what I love is opening up the discussion on it.

Because I can't tell you. I'm just like you. No, neither can I. I have, I'm just posing the question. I have no idea. The way my brain gets to it is I imagine, this is what I imagine. So come along for a ride. I imagine landing at JFK Airport. If you've never been, it is a giant airport. New York City. And I've landed there once. It's a bit intense. And you're at this, you know, this monstrous city.

And, you know, you get your bag and you're walking out to the street and you got no vehicle. Nobody's picking you up. And I, there's this yellow cab taxi line. And it is, I don't know, a hundred deep. And everybody's just kind of standing there. So you, grab your bag and you, I had my hockey equipment with me at the time. And I walk over and I'm like, I guess I'm getting a cab to the hotel. Because I knew where I at least had to go.

I just didn't know how to get there, right? And so I think of finding God the same way. What I can't tell you is if, you know, you take the yellow cab, you take the horse and cart, you take everything, you know, pedal bike, you know, like the limo, just figure all the ways of transportation if the end destination is the same, one God, right? That's where it is. What I can tell you about Christianity and my experience

is it feels like I'm sitting at JFK and the president's detail rolls up they walk up they put a hand on my shoulder and say Sean just get in the car we'll get you to your destination it's fine we got boltproof glass we got we got 12 it's a motorcade nobody's stopping us where you go and that's the way I felt

that doesn't mean that I have no idea I have no idea on the rest of it and I know I'm going to piss some people off by saying that but it's like why would I spout anything else but it's true though and I understand why you feel that way because the answers are there for you. It's like the cheat to the test. You got all of the solutions right there. Just look at the book. It's all in there. It's got 66 books. They've been written over thousands of years. They have been canonically organized and don't worry

about the apocryphal ones that we kept out. And, you know, the actual history behind some of the, you know, the reality of where they came from and how we found them and which ones we kept and which one we didn't and which versions. Forget all that. You've got the answers. Just do the answers. And I'm actually like, I'm partial to that. I get why that makes a lot of sense. And maybe it's right. It's that old Zen adage of there's many paths up to the peak of the mountain, right? The peak of the mountain is the point, not the path particularly, although some people may say that some are better than others and some are more treacherous than others. I just don't know, I feel like I don't want to tie myself to a certain flag or a certain like term. But in the meantime, but in the meantime,

you're on moored. That's exactly it. So that's the trade-off that there's no free lunch. It's either you get the presidential limo or you get to sort of like, you know, push your way through the crowd maybe for blocks and blocks trying to figure it out. Yeah, I had the same, like,

because I remember having this argument with Ken Rutherford. And, you know, we talked about it at length. Probably, I don't know, was it a month? You know, it doesn't matter the time frame. We just talked about it. And I eventually got to this point where I'm like, okay, I'm going to take care of Sean because I kept wandering out into the abyss

and being confronted by come follow us, come follow this, come over here, do this, why don't you try this? It all works. And it's like, actually, I've experienced enough now to know that I think a ton of it can work. I don't know the ins and outs of whether it's good or not.

I have no idea. Because right, like how many people have you listened to when it comes to just psilocybin and ayahuasca. Ayahuasca trips and different things. Ibrahim, all those ones. It's like you either look at all those people and go, they all went insane, or there's something to it.

Chances are there's something to it. Okay? I mean, I'm not a moron. I don't think, you know, like, Muhammad Ali, why does he go Muslim? Like, think about it. Like, there has to be something there that attracted him to it. And on these examples go.

And folks, when I was, when I was searching, no less than four, if not five different things presenting itself to me where I was like, this is getting a little bit strange, right? And I, you know, I settled into reading the Bible, started reading the Bible, a couple things went on, boom, boom, boom, and I went, oh, this is it.

This is it. This is what I, yeah, right here, done. And I've never looked back from there. In saying that, like, I'm not ready to go kill all the whatever or, like, I think, you know, you look at the words of Jesus, it's like, man, love on your neighbor. And when you think they're sinning, how about you check your sins? Because there's a list of them there that I fall short on daily.

It's like, well, we're all sinners. Okay, that actually makes sense. And the more I dig into it, the more I'm like, oh, I just got to find a way to, you know, love all my wife and kids and treat my neighbor with respect. And if we all did that, society would become immensely better, like almost immediately. But it's difficult. Like, it is exceedingly difficult. and you know that's why I like Peterson Peterson

Peterson draws it back to the Bible all the time half the time I think Peterson's genius he is and then you read some of the things he writes I'm like it's literally the Bible he literally just quoted the Bible and then just tried breaking it down in a little more depth right and you're like you can find thousands of books that do the same thing yeah he's a great example right now of exactly what you're talking about how it's like it seems like a greater proportion of society

is wrestling with the same thing I'm wrestling with because he's literally coming out with a book later this year in November called We Who Ressel with God. When I heard that title, I'm like, well, that's me. That's a lot of people that I know right now. I wonder what Jordan has to say about that. And the more I listen to his podcast where he's talking about some of the ideas in there, they're coming directly out of the Bible.

And but of course, he's putting his psychoanalytical unions on it. Yeah, exactly. But I don't think he's wrong for doing so. It's just a different flavor of trying to come to the same core truths. I mean, you gave me this silver coin from Silver Gold Bowl, right? I'm into gold and silver right now just like you are from a different avenue. It's a different company. But does that mean that I should hate this silver you just gave me because it's not from

the company that I'm using? That doesn't make any sense. This is the end result. This is the actual valuable part. And to, you know, hate that other people are getting it from somewhere else is to totally miss the point. We should not only be happy for them, but value that they've found the same worthy thing that we all already put our worth in.

I would say, when it's... comes to the spiritual sense side of this thing. I don't know if I can relate it to silver, one. But in saying that, I like the scripture that says, you know, you'll judge a tree by the fruit of bears. So if a person,

I don't know, just take your pick. I just pick on Christianity. And things start to get better. Chances are it's good for them. Like, I mean, if you see an alcoholic

who beats his wife and never shows up to work, all of a sudden start doing, something and he stops drinking and starts repenting for the sins he's had up until that point and starts showing up for his kids and on and on and on you can try and like figure out what that all is which we probably should because chances are more people should do that but like you can just see it's like oh man like look look at what that's doing for his life what he's done and we try like we're at all times we're

always trying to convince other people that what we're doing is the way. Why do we do that? I don't know. It's comforting to our own sensibility that we got it right, right? This is the problem with silos in general, is that if you find out that you have the same ideas and the same thoughts as everyone around you, that should be a red flag. It's like, are we all right and everybody else around us wrong? That's weird. Is that possible? Is that likely? And if you make that distinction, now you have the uncomfortable position of like, well, maybe part of what I believe might not be right. then you have to readdress things, which sucks. But it is, I love, it's one of my favorite pieces of wisdom out of the Bible, is what you just

said, is you will know them by their fruits, is you don't have to understand all of Islam. You don't have to understand all of Confucianism or Hinduism or Buddhism or any of the other alternate modes of wisdom and spirituality in the world to just say what from there is valuable, what aligns with a good and healthy life. Like, I know people who've ditched alcoholism and been better for their family life from stoicism, which is literally, uh, it has no theology behind it whatsoever. It's a philosophical theology. So it's mostly philosophy where it's just like aim for the virtuous, uh, golden mean.

Try, try to be virtuous in all things and balanced in all things. Do not, you know, rage against the waves because you can't stop them. Just work on yourself internally and that will help the world as a sum. I mean, it's, it's everything that Peterson talks about. it's clean your room again, right? This is stoic stuff as much as it's Christian stuff, as much as it's Buddhist stuff, as much as it, you know, you can go down the line, know them by their fruit. There are fruits that are from other fields that just, you know, um, follow what, what is working and what is truthful and what is good. And what you'll find

too is there's rotten fruit in every field too. It doesn't mean the whole field sucks. Um, I don't know what to make of that as far as like the end meta construct is, is like, Is there only that one path up the mountain? Do all of them lead there in the end? I don't know. I'm not up the mountain yet to tell you. Maybe some of them dead end. And those people up that path don't get to figure it out.

There's lots of scripture that says not all will gain, you know, we'll enter heaven. And, you know, and a lot of that comes through Jesus and, you know, other parts. Once again, I'm no scholar. Like I try and rattle, you know, and get some guys on here and they can just rattle things off. I'm like, well, I'm not there yet. I'm working on it. So there's lots of scripture that says, There's one path, and it's through Jesus.

And I look at the world, and I like the scripture that says, you know, take the log out of your eye before you take the speck out of somebody else's. And once again, I don't have the answers for everybody else. I'm trying to figure myself. I'm trying to clean my room, you know, clean up myself so I can be better for my... You know, my wife asked me one time, Drew. What are you trying to do? What a loaded question.

And I was like, well... It's a good wife, though. Honestly, I think this is roughly what I said. I think I need to continue to work on myself. I want to become a better husband and a better father. And if I can do those things, maybe I can direct our family and just a slightly different direction and protect our kids and protect you and see things a little more clearly.

And if I get that right, maybe I can help our community. But I'm like, I'm not sure. I know I can't save Alberta. I know I'm not like, you know, one can argue how much influence I've had, sure, or we've had, or Peterson's had, or on and on. It's like certainly there's ripple effects to what you do, but I don't have this thought process in my mind anymore that I'm like going out to save the world. It's like, no, I'm trying to make my bed and get my stuff in order.

Because if I can do that, maybe just maybe I can get my house in order. And if I knock those two out of the park, because I think those, Those two are huge. Don't worry about anything outside your house. You get those two going the right direction. Life is a lot of fun. Like it is, oh man, there just isn't any bad days. And maybe there's a way you can take one more step and just start to, you know.

But as soon as you try and take a step up at the door, the world's going to try and knock it down and maybe some things start going on. And then you've got to go back to your house and you've got to clean your room. And it feels like it's a bit of a cyclical nature of like you've got to keep working on your stuff. to keep getting, you know, and on and on it goes. Yeah. Isn't that kind of like the fractal truth to everything in life, though? Everything I've experienced anyways is you don't get anywhere without effort, and effort requires

repetition. I mean, you can talk about the physicality of that or the sports aspect of that. We both, you know, have backgrounds in different sports that basically lead to a mastery in its own sense, that you can't start as a white belt and just go straight to black. And you can't start as a peewee and go straight to, like, the major leagues. it's a process and nobody can avoid it. There's a quote. That's the lovely thing about it.

That's right at a Jurassic Park. Inherited wealth. All right. The problem with nuclear weapons is it's inherited wealth. Nobody understands the energy and the time and the thoughts that went into, they just gave them the keys to atomic energy. Whereas a black belt in jiu-jitsu, specifically, how many years does that take? It took me 12.

12. So by the time you can kill someone, you understand and you won't kill someone, roughly is the thought process. It's not inherited wealth. You earned it. You earned every stitch on that black belt. Whereas the world where we sit today, we have a lot of inherited wealth. We have a lot of things that can do a lot of destruction. And none of us have worked for it. It's come off of humanity's backs. And they just gave us these keys and you're like, oh. Interestingly, this is the argument that I make for theology in my recent book is it was a Chesterton's fence that Nietzsche essentially assailed early or late into the 1800s, early into the 1900s, which gave the keys to the inherited wealth of the next generations to just go on without God. And we're basically having to reassess, should that fence have been pulled down after the fact. We live in a modern society that C.S. Lewis had a great term for, and I think I've used. on this show before it's chronological snobbery is we think because we're the most modern, that we're the most intelligent. And it's, it's almost like a false sense of security or security blanket that we don't have to do our own introspective work. We don't have to go to the field until we don't have to go work on our black belt from a state of a white belt. We can just

start from the position of that inherited wealth and go forward, almost like in the Newtonian sense where he talked about, I think it was Newton that said that if I see further, it's because I stand on the shoulders of giants. But that's almost like, it's a poor analogy because it's not actually how it works. We don't just get to start in a linear progression where the last person left off. You have to do all of that inherited wisdom. You have to earn it. You can't just inherit it because it's not worth anything if it is.

Right. It's like if you're an heir to a fortune, you'll throw that fortune around because you've never had to do one day of work for it, whereas somebody who had to build the whole corporation from the ground up to their multi-million dollar position they inherit over to their kids, that heredity means something to the person who had to earn it. And for us to try to stand on the shoulders of those that came before us, there's a necessary amount of our own effort before we can even be worthy to take that on to ourselves. And maybe that's the process I'm in right now. I think that's the process I'm in with Christianity. Actually, well, like, I think about that,

and I'm like, the inherited wealth of the Bibles that's sitting there. And if you take one line or one thought out of it, right? And then you carry on with the life. You know, if you do this, you're a good human being. And you discount everything else that's in that book. Because there's a lot in there. There's a thing of that, but like, I don't know, how quick can you read the Bible, folks? I'm sure somebody's going to rattle off. I did it in a year. I did it in six months. I don't know. To me, I've been wrestling with parts of it now for well over a year. And I've read the New Testament and then some. Not much. and I'm like, this isn't going to take a lifetime.

I think that's the beauty of it. Honestly, I think that is the literal beauty of the Bible is in order to fully understand it, it takes time. And it takes life, and it takes seeing different things and going back and looking at it and trying to find, oh, yeah, okay, that makes sense. And then, you know, I always bring up the quote Heraclitus, you know, no man ever enters the same river twice

because the man is ever changing, so is the water is the river and to me that's every book you know if you go back and learn the hobbit today i read it in like grade eight i think it would change a little bit when i'm reading it now i think it's c s louis how many kids read that book and i'm a grown man and i watch the movie and i hear some of the things the lion has to say and i'm like holy crap that's pretty profound stuff for a kids you know and the inherited wealth thought process is like if we take that and scrubbed it from our brain and just approached the teachings

like, man, there's something to be learned here. And there is a lot, and we have to work at it to understand it. We'll probably all be better off. And I'm not saying people don't do that. I'm sure lots do. I know I wasn't. I'm just kind of like carried on with life. Yeah, yeah, we got that.

Carry on. Yeah, it won't be valuable until you understand the soil that underpins its value. If that soil isn't there, it's actually not valuable, right? It has to have a substructure to house. upon to give it value. And do you know what the Dunning Kruger effect is? So Dunning Krueger effect is one, I mean, all the redditors out there will love this because they're all the whole society of actually bros, right?

And they love throwing out the term the Dunning Kruger effect. The Dunning Krueger effect, essentially, you can pull it up on Google, just type one Dunning Kruger and go to images and you'll pull up what looks like an inverse parabola, which means like think of a half pipe in a skateboard sense where it starts high, it dips low and then it comes back up high by the end of it. And the idea is that before you actually undertake the understanding into a specialty, you have a misappropriated understanding or belief of the position you hold in the understanding of that thing. You think you know a whole lot more than when you actually start looking into it and have to discover

that, oh, I'm going to drop down the slope of what I think I know to the bottom of that pit of despair of like, wow, this is way more than I thought it was. And as you continue that path, it starts to curve back up as you become more and more a specialist and an actual accredited person that can speak to the field. And what you find out is they end up basically at par with where you thought you were, but it took the travel to get there to give it value. And I think that, and this is one of the arguments again I make in my second book that is supposed to, in my attempt, lend credence back to the theological, which has been excised from our modern world,

is that we think that we are so smart in our mom. wisdom without theology that we're at the peak of Mount Stupid when it comes to the Dunning Kruger effect and a lot of people our ancestors our predecessors of thousands of years ago did the actual work and presented to us their scrolls of deep wisdom and we're like cool bro but we got an iPhone now and it's so frustrating to deal with people that way because I see myself in them as well I understand why it's so easy to do that they got given all of these you know cheat sheets again almost as if they've done the work

but they haven't. The same thing is true, almost in a fractal sense of any type of wisdom that you hope to be able to wield is, sorry, there's a path, you got to go through the path. Otherwise, it's not believable because you don't actually understand the value of that sword you hold in your hand. You might as well use it as a butter knife, right? Yeah, I don't know if I have anything to add to that. I'm looking at it right now. I'm like, that makes complete sense.

This has been the journey of podcasting, except I don't think I'm anywhere near an expert. I think I'm like... Well, what's interesting is if you, if you, find a specific graph on there, there will be a difference between the height of where you started and the confidence gap. And that is the mark, I think, of a true expert, is they actually understand the degree to which they don't know what they don't know, and they're willing to give latitude to the literal infinity of what they may not know out there because of all of what they've learned up to that point. This is the difference, again, between chaos and order. I only know what I've

ordered up to this point. And to find that out, I had to go out into chaos and order it. And I know because of all the times I've gone out into chaos, that chaos is functionally infinite, which means that I have to leave a gap of confidence that there is an infinite amount of what I don't know, that I don't know, that could wildly amend what I think I know. So even as an expert, I'm actually like open to, I think this is what's right as far as I know, whereas the person at the beginning of the Dunning Kruger would be like, well, bro, listen, I read an article once and they've got it figured out, right? And the expert will be like, okay, you do you, but I'm going to keep that.

confidence gap there because I've gone through and dealt with the slings and arrows actually doing the work and it's not exactly what you think it is. Man, there's a whole much more to the story. There's always so much more to the story. Man, I've enjoyed this. I know we're going to do back to back so I could keep you here for another hour doing this, but I know we're just going to flip over and... You got a busy day today too.

Yeah. You know, some days, I don't... I love the story of the Beatles. You know the story of the Beatles? Tell me the story of the Beatles. This is, what's the book? Is it Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell? Okay.

I think. The Beatles, when they first started, went over to Europe, I believe, and by all accounts, and weren't that good. And they play these ridiculously long sets because there was nobody, they were at this, you know, I can't remember, it was a coffee shops, it doesn't matter. And they'd play, you know, if a normal set is an hour and a half, they'd play 12 hours. Like, you kind of get the point of how, so they just, they started making things up. because, I mean, how can you sing a song for 12 hours?

And I completely understand that mindset now. And eventually they get the sound of the Beatles and they've, you know, the 10,000 hour rule and on and on it goes. And, you know, certainly some people on here probably while they had help from X or they did this. That's not the story. But the 12 hours and the work they put in,

when I look at, you know, rattling off eight, six hours of podcasts in a row, you know, like when I first started, I was doing four hours every Sunday interviewing the pillars of Lloydminster community. And just different things like that, you go to different levels and you find, like you're growing as a host, as a listener, as a, just everything to do with this realm of things. And so I never look at it like, oh, God, man, it's going to be a long day at work. Although I was sitting there looking at today and like, this is going to be an interesting day, you know, rattling off. You're supposed to be four, and now it's just going to be three.

So, you know, like, oh, lucky me. Except I can't imagine, to me, it would be like playing the world's longest hockey, or not the six-hour hockey game. I don't, at any point, not enjoy this. I always enjoy it. But not to say that it doesn't get tiring. It's a mental exhaustion of trying to keep up

with people such as yourself and do the dance and then grow. But that's where the growth comes. Like stretching yourself a little bit further and a little bit further. I know me and you have had the conversation lots about 365 and 365 maybe maybe someday I don't know I don't know if I want to take on that challenge I've really thought about it but that's uh there's no I've done 31 and 31 now and there's just no room for error and although that's fun and you're pushing yourself um it's difficult and you wouldn't think of pot lots of parts of podcasting are difficult but that's that's that's that's a lot of parts of podcasting are difficult but that's that's that's a lot of lot. Mm-hmm. Yeah, there's something to be said, too, about taking breaks between iterations, right?

You don't want to become... Well, this July is the first time I'm going to slow the podcast down. Uh-oh. After Ottawa, I took the 53 days off. Mm-hmm. But since then, I've been about as consistent as humanly possible until this point. So in two and a half weeks, and I've got to forewarn everybody a bit more, the podcast is going to slow down from five podcasts a week to three.

And the Tuesday mashup. We might be, maybe twos, if you're listening, maybe we should ask Drew. Instead of me hosting it, and along with twos, we're going to have guest hosts for the month. The Drew's Day mashup, is that what you're asking? Sure. You'll hop in for one. Vance Crowe is getting shoulder tap for one. I'm sure there will be a couple others to get shoulder tap for one.

And that way twos can carry on doing it. But I'm going to try and, I don't know, if three pod guests week, most people don't do that. Three pod a week for me, I'm sure you understand. I'm like, oh, man, I can't wait for that break. Yeah. And I got some things I really want to wrestle with. So when you talk about a healthy break, I got a list of like, probably no less than 10 things that I think are pretty intensive thoughts

that I need to get through to see where I want to progress for the last half of the year and see what different things I want to toy with. And right now I just, it's not that I don't have time, but I don't have time, right? Like it's almost a paradox. You're running so hard and you're trying to keep up with where the world's at, and who's coming on and getting guests to come on and on and on it goes, that when you talk about taking a, healthy to take a break, I'm really looking forward to family vacation,

going to be with the wife and kids, do a bit of writing, and just explore my thoughts a little more in depth and see where I get to. Well, I'm excited to hear where you do get to. It's fun to watch third person. Yeah, well, I tell you what, we'll talk, well, maybe we'll see how you do on a Drew's Day mashup. What did you say? Drew's Day Mash. That's good. Yeah, that's good. Cool. All right. Well, this has been a blast.

We're going to do another one, I think, on my side now, right? Yeah, if you're new to this, every time Drew comes in the studio, we do back to back. So one air's here, and you can find, the his will probably air before mine, I'm going to assume. So you probably found the one there, and you're probably wondering where the start of that conversation started. It's here. But if you're just tuning into this set of things, you can go over to the social disorder and check out the second half of wherever we get to. So thanks for hopping in, Drew and coming to the studio. Always my pleasure.