Shaun Newman Podcast - #689 - Coutts 4 Roundtable

Episode Date: August 8, 2024

Anthony Olienick and Christopher Carbert have both been found NOT guilty for Conspiracy to Commit Murder of a Police Officer and I am joined by Granny Margaret Mackay, Nikki Thom and Stevland Ambrose to discuss this past month's trial. To support Anthony: [e-mail] To support Christopher: [e-mail] Let me know what you think. Text me 587-217-8500 Substack:https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcast E-transfer here: [e-mail] Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/ Email: [e-mail] Text Grahame: [phone] – and be sure to let them know you’re an SNP listener.

This is Vance Crowe. This is Tom Longo. This is Drew Weatherhead. This is Marty Up North. This is J.P. Sears, and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks. Happy Thursday. How's everybody doing today?

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She's been there a while now. But regardless, make sure you stop into the deer and steer. She can fill your freezer with all the different smoking and grilling cuts if you haven't already done so if you're small town Saskatchewan wanting to meet another small town Saskatchewan she's from wadena Saskatchewan she's been all over uh canada when it comes to cutting meat she's now just on the west side of lloyd minster at the deer and steer butchery you can give her a call 780 870 800 um what do we got going on here we are uh sitting in minnesota for a few more days and then we are going to be back It's going to be back in the studio this next week. Man, alive, am I excited to get back in that little cubicle, 12 by 12 room,

and start doing things in person again? Excited. Just a smidge. Just a smidge excited. If you haven't subscribed to the substack, of course, that's where you can get some free content. You can also be a paid subscriber, help support the podcast for what we're trying to do in the media landscape here in Weston, Canada. and you can learn about some of the events coming up,

which right now I've been pretty quiet on. But we're starting to lay out the foundation for Cornerstone Forum 25. That's going to be something we're announcing here over the next month on how you can get tickets where it's going to be. When it's going to be, we'll start announcing speakers, the whole kit and caboodle. I'm excited for it. And what else can I tell you?

When it comes to some substack exclusives, that's where they'll be airing. And we got Christmas parties in Lloydminster. So if you're looking for your business, you're looking for a Christmas party to take your employees out to. I do two of them. One of them already sold out. There will be more information coming out about that as well. All the details, you can just shoot me a text via the number down on the show notes and find out more about that.

Okay, that's a few things. We're going to get back to your scheduled show here. So let's how about we have I don't know where I'm going I don't know where I'm going folks It's been a bit a while since I've been out of the studio for Almost it'll be up on six weeks here I think I'm getting a little bit star crazy and I'm looking forward to those four walls Being back inside to the studio to the studio table all these good things

I got a I got a picture being built right now It's gonna be ready when I get home I can't wait I can't wait nobody is I would say I would say less than 10 people have seen the picture that was taken of me in Ottawa that is going to be on the studio wall come when I get back next week. Yeah. How much of a teaser is that for you? I'm excited for that. Okay, that's all I got. That's all I got today. Let's get on to the tale of the tape. These three have been working tirelessly as advocates of the Coots for. I'm talking about Nick

Nikki Tom, Granny, Margaret Mackay, and Stevelyn Ambrose. So buckle up. Here we go. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Today I'm joined by Granny Margaret McKay, Nikki Tom, and Stevlin Ambrose. We're going to be discussing the Coots 4 and obviously the trial that just ended for, or I think ended for Tony Olienek, Christopher Carbitt. One of the things I was saying to you, lovely three before I get there,

thank you all for joining me today. Well, thank you for being a voice for the man, Sean. Appreciate it. Thank you. Well, you know, a voice for the man, you know, I was thinking about that. You know, I've watched as the news has come out, I was saying to you guys, I've been on the road with the family holidays. So I've been watching, my only news update has been Twitter and just trying to piece together

what the heck's going on. I haven't really talked to anyone. And once upon a time, the only news that was coming out was mainstream media. And I saw the picture of the guns. And I was probably, you know, I was no hero back then. I was like, oh my God, this looks terrible. And I took 10 feet back. And it took people like Granny and Nikki and others, I might add,

talking to me to slowly get me back in the realm of talking about it. And I mean, obviously now we're to the point where every one of the four has been not guilty of conspiracy to commit murder, which was why they were held, why the Emergencies Act was initiated and on and on and on. That all being said, before we get too far into it, I want to, well, I appreciate all coming on and doing this and, and, you know, you call me a voice for the boys, but honestly, I try and give voices to all the people who are talking about it. And you three have played your parts and by many standards exceptionally well. For the people listening, I want to give them a moment just to hear your voice, a little bit about yourself. And we'll start with, with Granny, and we'll work our way around Nikki, then Stevelyn.

And you can go short, long, but just a little. bit of background so people know who they're listening to. Okay, well, my journey basically to do with the Cootsman started when I went to Ottawa. I left Ottawa January 24th. I saw all the shenanigans that happened in Ottawa. We all knew that the mainstream media was not reporting actual events that were happening in Ottawa. So when I was coming home from Ottawa, I heard about some people that were arrested at Coots. And my gut instantly told me if there were lies in Ottawa, there must be lies in Coots. And I went with my gut and I started looking for what happened in Coots.

And I found four men. And I've always said, innocent until proven guilty, it's not my story to tell. It's four men's story to tell. And I started searching for the family. family and friends and I ended up in the middle of it. I ended up becoming a face that was recognized for the man. And it's a long story because that was over two years ago. I can't believe we're at 900 plus days, but here we are.

We're still pushing. We still don't have two of the men out. Yes, the trial is over, but we will explain a lot more as we go around the table here. Nikki. I'm a friend of Anthony Olenix, Tony. next to Tony and I had phoned him or texted him, asked him if he would be wanting to come to Coots on the 25th of January. And he said, yeah, you betcha, I'm in. And so we left our shop in the morning of the 29th. And, you know, we stayed there for six days or so. We had to

come home because we had truck trouble. And then on the 13th, 14th of February, I got a phone call from one of my friends saying there was stuff going down in Coots. And I logged on Instagram to watch Tony's video. And I tried to call him with no answer, probably while he was just getting into the police car is when I was trying to phone him.

And when I had heard on the news that it was a separate group that had came into Coots, I knew it was bullshit right off the get-go because Tony had followed our trucks down. And it's been a long, a half-year process. We knew that there was problems with the Crown story right from day one. And that's why we're still here. so trying to make awareness for what's happened. Health and the remand center has been a problem. And we're here till the other two men get home, and this is probably a lifelong journey of trying to clean up a corrupt system.

Finally, Stevlin, you're new to the podcast. The other two have, we've done interviews with them along the way. Stevlin, this is your first time on the Sean Newman podcast. Give us a little bit about yourself. Well, Sean, I'm a self-employed computer tech in British Columbia. I have just a quiet life here. And like you, when the whole Coos thing went down, I just, well, like Granny, at first I called bullshit.

I thought this is just a false flag. It was the false flag that we were all waiting for. without getting into specifics or naming names, I did dig around a little bit, and I found some interviews with some local people that were actually at the protest that backed up the story, that these were outside agitators

that had infiltrated the protest. And at that point, my gut just fell, and I thought, oh, my God, like, the thing that all these crazy lefties have been predicting would happen, has actually happened. So unfortunately, I fell for it at first, and it was Moca's reporting sort of on the mad, on the ground, on the street, sorry, man on the street reporting outside of the courthouse during the bail hearings that first made me start to question what I had

heard because there were so many really kind-hearted people that were there to support the men. and that's when I started thinking, are these guys really the monsters? They're being made out to be. And through the tireless efforts of people like Granny and Nikki and Danielle, who isn't here today, I just started learning more and more and asking more and more questions. And I made my first trip to Lefbridge just this February

during the pretrial hearings, which seems like a lifetime ago. But here we are. And just so I'm clear, you're an IT support specialist. Like when I first got sent your name, I was like, okay, who is he? And then I got sent to a couple of posts you done. And I'm like, oh, so this guy, like, I don't know if this is the proper terminology so you can correct me. But you hacked Tony's phone to like pull out all the data so that you could see, you know, what he was up to. Am I in the ballpark?

No. Well, close. The police hacked Tony's phone. So they used forensic software to bypass the security on the phone. And then they took what they call an extraction. So they took basically a copy of the contents of the phone as evidence. And so what they do in that situation is they keep the phone, the device itself as evidence. And nobody's allowed to touch it after that extraction.

And so the problem there is that, you know, they use forensic software to, find all this inculpatory data to use against the accused, but the accused is never allowed to hold their device again, which is how every human that you know would look for exculpatory information. They would try and find emails and texts and photos. But in this case, the defense for Chris Carbert had to fight the system in order for the judge. to make an order that they be provided a copy of the extraction and the software necessary in order to interface with that extraction. And then a copy of that I think was just kind of given to Tony's defense by default.

And it's not something that a normal human can really make sense of. So that's where I came in and they asked me to get involved and to help with that. Steven, do you want to talk about the cash file? Does any of that makes sense or I just talk Spanish for doing this? You talked a little bit of Spanish. I'm not going to, I'm not going to lie. I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I literally, in my mind, had this guy smoking darts in the back room, not a well-lit room, typing away on his computer,

uh, working six different computers, hacking into a phone. Um, what you're talking about is, uh, a giant, um, file dump coming to you and you go through it with a fine-tooth comb, yes? That's right. Yeah, sorry to disappoint you. It's not like the movies. The police did the actual hacking in this case. Now, Nikki mentioned, what did you say, Nicky?

A money dump? Money file? No, a cash file on your phone. Oh, a cash file. Cash file on your phone. Right. So it's very, very underhanded what they do. So the forensic software analyzes all the data and organizes it in different ways.

So one of the ways you can look at the data is by app. So you can go through and say, okay, show me all the images from the email. Show me all the images from Facebook. Show me all the images from Instagram. In this case, or you can actually just go, show me all the images, period. And so what they did, in my opinion, is a feigned ignorance of how everything works. and they just said, let's just look at all the images. And then they went through and there would have been,

there would have been tens of thousands of images. And only a small portion of those were actually Tony's images that he took with his camera. The rest are from various caches, one of which was his Instagram cache, which had 15,000 images and videos that were just copies of things that he had looked at on Instagram. And so that's where a lot of the images that they wanted to enter as evidence had come from. So they just went through the phone. They went through all the images as if every image is just like every other image.

They're all Tony's images. And they went through and they just found pictures of guns and said, oh, there's one. And so they ended up gathering almost 80 photos that looked like scary, scary guns. And they wanted to enter them as evidence with the insinuation. that these are Tony's guns that are in some other unknown location, but this is this is the cash of guns that Tony has been collecting. But I was able to show that the vast majority of those were either from his web cache or his Instagram cache.

And the only thing you can say with any accuracy is that those folks, photos appeared on his screen at one time. So it could have been a matter of just, he was just scrolling through Instagram. And he has people he's following perhaps because, they like guns. He likes guns. So he's just looking at photos.

And then they get cached on his phone. Really dumb question from my side. How long does that last for before it starts deleting? Or it can't, it just keeps cash. Like there's just like, I don't know. I don't know the word to use, but like it can just do that for infinity or does it eventually cash out and it has to dump some?

So if you, it depends on how big the storage is on your phone. The size of the cash is usually relative to the size of the overall storage. So if you have a phone with a lot of storage, even if only a small percentage of that is the cash for, say, Instagram, it can still be one or two gigabytes, which is a lot. along thousands and thousands of photos. And so to answer your question, like if you were to go into the settings on your phone and go to the Instagram app and delete the caches,

then there's nothing there. But as soon as you start using Instagram, it'll start filling it up again. And then when it runs out of space, it'll just write over the oldest stuff with new stuff. And so the answer is really dependent on how big your size of your storage is and how often you're using Instagram. And lots of these main images that they were going to use against Tony.

Tony had said, Maniqi, I've never seen these images. And it could have been so much as he had just scrolled through somebody's Instagram feed and not paid attention. And they were stored in the cash. And at one point, Marilyn had a report that the crown had given her with copies of photos. And she had already sat down with Tony to ask him if he recognized any of them. And what I didn't realize is that she had put a checkmark beside the ones that he said, I do recognize this photo.

When I went through, I determined with 100% accuracy, like I went and said, okay, well, this is a legitimate photo and this is a legitimate photo. And then I realized after, out of the 80, the two that I identified as not being from webcashes are the two that he said that he recognized. So the the the the prosecutors if I'm if I'm hearing this correctly in Apologies audience for my slowness I want to make sure I'm getting this straight they put up 80 images and two of them were actually his the rest were just you know admiring on social media or heck just scrolling past but they looked mean and we're trying to portray these men as you know conspirators to commit murder against police officers Exactly. And so, you know, and two years had gone by. And so the only thing that Tony could think of to make sense of it was he thought the police must have planted these images on my phone because I don't even recognize them.

And so I'm left thinking now, I'm left wondering how many people around the world are in the same situation where their devices have been confiscated. They're sitting in remand. And now they're being presented this disclosure. It includes all. this evidence from their phones that they don't even recognize. Well, you think just, you know, on an iPhone, I have no idea of all the other phones, smartphones do the same thing. But they give you updates on how much time every week you've spent on average on your phone daily, I think, is what the number spits out. Anyway, it doesn't matter.

I'd be curious, you know, you think people, there's a real problem with people scrolling, right you talk to enough people and some people scroll tic-tok some people scroll instagram twitter you know like we all have a little bit of advice on where we go i told you at the start of this the only place i seem to find anything of news on on the coutes four is if i go to twitter and the things that go across my screen on on on my search for not only coutes four but just in general on that app if they somehow managed to say that was on my phone from me i think i'd be probably like locked away for a very long time, right? There's lots of things you scroll by that you don't even give a second thought to. And you're like, yeah, that's stupid or whatever. And you just carry on.

And it goes somewhere in the recesses of your mind. And obviously, the recesses of your phone. And the fact that that could be used against you is, is honestly a pretty wild thought. And you don't even know it. Marilyn burned Tony's defense lawyer at one time had wanted to put me on the stand. She ended up changing your mind. It wasn't necessary. But I had this sort of fantasy of being on the stand. and saying to the prosecutor, look, I know it's really hard for people to understand this whole cash phenomenon. So as an aide to help explain how it works, can I borrow your phone for the afternoon? And what I will do is I will forensically go through your phone and create a report.

And then we can all take a look at what we found on your phone. Somehow I don't think they want that. No, but I guess the point being is that none of us would want. to be in that situation. I don't even want to own a phone anymore after this. Yeah, exactly. And maybe that's one of the best things, you know, if there is good things to come out of this,

is, you know, is maybe people are starting to sober up to what that device is actually doing. I know you hear a lot of different things about tracking and listening and on and on and on, but you three specifically are paying attention to four men, now two that sit in remand on trial and they bring that out. That's got to be pretty sobering, I would think, Nikki, Granny, or Steveland. I mean, obviously all three of you saw it firsthand. I started researching flip phones, and I'm not kidding.

It'll be in my cash. I just, I don't know anymore. Like, you watch what you've seen in that courtroom, and it's really disturbing at how they take a text. and take the context, but they don't show before, they don't show after. You could have been talking about the oilers and the flames, but nobody gets the context unless the defense lawyer comes in or has somebody like Stevelyn digging through everything and finds the context. It's really disturbing how they can put a case together.

And I do believe once all this comes out, I believe there was a narrative, and this is in my opinion, that there was a narrative, and they came in looking for the people to fill the narrative. And it's all coming out. Because what are those papers, Nikki, the 800 pages? The A Tip Report. It shows in there that Tony, Chris, Jerry, and Chris were not even a blip on the map until February 9th. They had probably 10 plus men or women in their sites on January 29th, 2022. And they were following them, and correct me, Nikki, if I'm wrong, they were following them.

They took their license plates, cross-referenced for a Pell license. And that's how they started following these people. And in the report, if you had any anti-government views, that was also a lot. the report. If you had any restricted fire weapons, that was also in the report. And there was no reason to surveil these people. And that started January 29th. What report are we talking about, ladies? It's an A-Tip report. I'll send it to you, Sean. Freedom of information. Yeah. 800 pages. I feel like Gord may have, Gord's probably listening. I'm sure Gord sent, he sent me something just the other day on Freedom of Information Act.

And now that one I want to say was talking about the U.S. government working with social media and I want to say the Canadian government. Am I butchering this, folks, on how to frame the narrative on the Freedom Convoy and how to remove accounts and different things like that? So this report goes into detail of where they were surveilling, which protest sites they were surveilling, they're surveilling people on social media, just their surveilling tips on people that would never be. even know that they were surveilled and that's how they were kind of infiltrating and beating the public to know where they protests were or who were organizers or who who you know where were these posts stemming from different groups they were following it's actually quite disturbing to read this report like even small town school protests like i mean the tiniest of the places that everybody was

under surveillance in this province. Yeah, I've often wondered, you know, from the podcast standpoint, you know, I'm like, oh, God, I'm on a list. I'm on probably several lists, you know, at this point. We're on a list for sure. Yeah, what's the point of even worrying about it, except when you see the documents, how sobering it is, I'd had on, and I'm forgetting his name right now. That's terrible of me.

It's obviously coming off, as I keep saying, you know, a month of being on the road with the kids, I've forgotten some names. I'm going to have to go back. through the old podcast list and kind of refresh the memory. But we were talking about freedom of information requests on your name and doing them to see what the cops are surveilling you for, if they are. And different federal agencies or provincial agencies, because you think, you know, you look at the Coots 4 and the fact that conspiracy to commit murder was, you know,

I think we can all, yeah, I don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to just stare at it and go, well, because of that, they got to. to enact this, which shut down the most peaceful protests this country may have ever seen, and what were the ramifications of that and on and on and on. And if you were in any way, shape, or form helping along before or after, certainly you're in the crosshairs of, I don't know who, I mean, government, but that's pretty large word, isn't it? It reminds one of like the KGB, like a communist Soviet style intelligence agency that's just gathering information constantly on its own citizens because it's so paranoid of any unrest. Meanwhile, we have unrest everywhere and it seems like a lot of different people get passes. But when it comes to this specific one, when it dealt with the lockdowns and the mandates and, you know, protesting in large force, all of it gets wrapped.

up quite tight. When we look at the trial, you know, once again, I was saying to Nikki and Granny before you got in Stevelyn, like, I've been on the road for, for, it's been well over a month now, and I've been watching different stories come through Twitter. You folks were around the trial. The trial is now ended. Now we wait on sentencing and bail and whatever else, hearings that are coming up. I think it's August 12th. Correct me if I'm wrong on that. We're not sure on dates yet. Oh, we're not sure dates. No. The judge said he would try and find something sooner if possible, but for now it's August 12th. No, I think it's going to be a little bit later. I don't have any confirmed yet. Yeah.

Oh, this is news to me. Yeah. Looks like the judge wants two days between the 19th and the 23rd. Oh, my God. I know. That's what we're saying. It's not over. Everybody's all yay. Yeah, no, there was a yay that the conspiracy charge is gone. But they're not out. Yeah.

They're still in there. It's just so unbelievable. It's just crazy making. Well, can you walk me through, and the audience for that matter, the month of July, the trial? You know, like they finally get their day in court, which I think most people were, I don't think excited is the right word. Maybe it is for some, but like, you know, at least they're in court. I saw one of the sketches I saw the courtroom.

It looked like they're treating them like Hannibal Lecter, which you kind of go like, here or me. But can you just, I don't know what sticks out to all three of you. If there's oddities or if there's just things you think people should know about, I'll let you go wherever you want. I'm just curious about it because once again, I was getting all my updates through Twitter and trying to piece it together myself while I, should have maybe had an interview or two in there. I was trying in July as my best. You know,

I was joking around before we started. I mean, you got Trump shot in the head. You got Jasper. You got the Coots two sitting in trial. Like July turned out to be one of those months with so much going on. What stuck out to you about the trial that people should know about? The biggest thing for me is perjury. And it's not the defense witnesses that perjured. And now this can come out. There's a video out there. Because when I saw this officer and it was in a void ear, which is the jury's not in the room, so you can't talk about it. But there was an officer up on the stand. And he's describing an incident with Chris Lysick. And we're all going, and it's been over two years since we'd seen the video. Because Chris Lysick had a, he was going live when he was arrested. So prior to that, probably how long Mickey at least a half hour prior to his arrest or 20 minutes. And the incident that this officer

is talking about is on this audio or this video. And I'm going, I don't, okay, my memory has been over two years. I got to go back and watch this video. It was such a blatant lie that it was shocking that an officer would get up on that stand and lie the way he did. And then there were other lies from other undercover officers and there were notes and there were statements and they weren't lining up. Now people, there's a whole thing on hearsay. If I'm talking to you, Sean, I can't repeat what you've told me. That's called hearsay. So even if you and I had one-on-one conversation. I can't repeat it. It's deemed hearsay. But the undercover officers can have a conversation with Tony and it's not hearsay now. They've got a hearsay exception or exemption

for the undercover officers. So when you see all these lies happening in front of you, in a courtroom, on the stand and you're thinking they're perjury, this is perjury that we're watching. And now here we sit. With the undercover officers, correct me if I'm wrong, they didn't have audio of the conversations, right? So it's literally on what they- Never bothered getting warrants for the wiretops. Like the original wiretop that they invoked was an imminent harm wiretap, which they have the power to wiretap anyone under the guise of imminent harm for 24 hours. But after 24 hours, they need an actual search warrant.

So these guys just kept recording for days and then they tried to admit all of that into evidence. With no judicial authorization. But they didn't even bother getting a warrant to take photos or to record conversations. Some of us wonder if maybe they actually did and they didn't get anything that was useful. So now they're pretending that they never bothered. All they have are these crudely written notes from the undercover officers that claim some of the things that were said. And Sean, the biggest problem with the undercovers, so Corey Toon is one of our friends, big tall man, and he left Coots on February 2nd, a couple hours before my husband and

we left. And they had Corey Toon at Smuggler Sloon, the 9th, 10th, 11th. They even had him that he was the driver of the tractor. Corey Toon was not even there. And then they had Corey Turcott, who worked in the basement, mixed up with Corey Toon. And they had Philip McDavid mixed up with Corey Toon. So if you can tell me that the undercovers have three people misidentified, can you trust the statements that are coming from them?

And Corey Toon was home in bed on February 2nd. that night and he started becoming ill. So for the next week or two, he was sick. Couldn't even have been there if he wanted to be. And he never came back. Yeah. And the night of the tractor incident, as they call it, the major crimes unit showed up at Corey Toon's house,

accusing him of being the tractor driver when he was at home. And what's the, forgive me, what's the major tractor incident that, you're referencing. We're on February 13th when they said the tractor and the semi were pushing a cop car, which was an absolute bullshit narrative to begin with. That's what started the incident for the police to come in. And whoever was in that tractor had ran out of the tractor,

and they never found the tractor driver, but they blamed Corey Toon. But Corey, we had been home since February 2nd. They brought ERT in, so there was some pretty big guns standing around. this tractor in the semi was very intimidating and the major crimes unit showed up at kori tome's house a couple months later and they track they were tracking down on lethbridge and even went as much as his house and then got him in the back of the cop car and he said it wasn't there you have the wrong person getting back to your question Sean about the things that stood out during the trial, the two things for me were the just

the sheer volume of evidence that the Crown entered. They presented their case for almost four weeks, just like an onslaught, just a mountain of evidence that they entered. And by the end of the four weeks, like you could just see the jury was just fatigued. They were all exhausted from all of this information. They'd even sent a note to the judge a couple days or a couple days or saying that they're having trouble dealing with all the information. On the very last day that the crown was presenting, they brought in an expert on bullets, on ammunition. And he literally sat on the stand all day talking about all of the bullets that he had counted.

So he would say, well, there was this patch of bullets and I counted this many. And there was another pile and I counted this money. And it literally took the whole day for him to sit there relating this useless information when they could have just given the totals in two minutes. And I just was looking at the jury and I was thinking, is this not an insult to your time and integrity? Like, why are they doing this to you? And then the next day, Marilyn Burns, Tony's defense lawyer, started her case or maybe

it was the same afternoon. Either way, as soon as she got rolling right away. And as soon as she started presenting your case, you saw all the jury perk up. They're all interested. They're all engaged. They're all taking notes. And all of a sudden, the crown jumps up. Your Honor, I have so many issues with what she said so far that I don't even know where to begin.

I'm going to have to listen to a transcript overnight to write a brief to even begin to address my concerns. And you could just see the jury's faces go like, oh, my God. Like we're back to this dredgery. And that's exactly what happened. It was just an onslaid. It was just every, it was like trying to walk through a landmine with weights on your feet. Like they just, they just slowed everything down. And in my opinion, it was all law fair.

It was, they presented so much information. And that's how in their closing remarks, they just snuck in all new, new evidence, new theories. They just pulled little bits and pieces from this mountain to construct a whole new narrative. You know, you got to forgive me because I'm a, you know, background as a hockey player. But what you're saying is, is like you showed up to play the Minnesota Wild from the late 90s. And instead of trying to score, all they're trying to do is make sure you can't get out of your offensive zone or your defensive zone. And they just slow the game down and they hope they win one nothing or two one because you don't get the time or the effort or the jury's literally asleep because they don't care anymore because you keep slowing down what's supposed to be coming. That's the way my brain works.

That was their strategy, but there was another hockey analogy that the prosecutor, the head prosecutor kept using. He would say, Your Honor, I'm not trying to squeak one past the goalie, but that's exactly what he was doing. And those instances, he was, they were trying to bog everything down and they're just trying to sneak one through. And you know, I guess the hard part is sitting in court and some of Tony's text message that I had with him were used against him. And one of Tony's comments or text messages to me, if this doesn't work, this is war. But if you took the context of the full conversation, you would understand that Tony was saying that we were going to Coots. But if this doesn't work, people are standing up nationally because you were seeing people in Ottawa, you were seeing people in Vancouver, you were seeing the Ambassador Bridge, you were seeing Manitoba, the border, where you were just seeing a whole. grassroots movement of people standing up, but they totally took this text message between

Tony and myself and blew it up. And I sit here and I think the only people who really knew the full context of the conversation were Tony and myself. But they wanted to take their narrative out of our conversation and make it their narrative, not the truth of the full conversation. Yep, there was a lot of that. And the other thing that really defies and encourage you, is the narrative that there was a gun delivery and that the so the UCOs claim that they that Chris and Tony had talked about having these guns delivered by Jerry and Jacqueline some people who had attended the protest but left who in fact had offered to bring some supplies back and had gone to Tony Tony's house and picked up some items for him including a

guitar and some clothes. They'd gone to Chris's house and has remade to hand them a bag of clothes. The UCOs claimed that this delivery was actually guns. And these guns were intended to be used to kill other RC&P officers. They allowed, not only did they allow to happen, they stood down and they didn't even try and surveil the so-called delivery of guns. They went through two police checkpoints. They would never allow that.

Never. There's no way they would ever allow that. There's just no way. And so we're led to believe that they were asked to believe that they had this delivery of guns. And it was in a hockey bag. It was so heavy. It was hard to carry. And they stood down.

They waited more than 24 hours. And their only response as RC&P was to have the undercover offer. officer text Tony and say, oh, did you get your shipment? More than 24 hours later. So it just defies all beggars belief. And then at the very end of the trial in the closing remarks, they sneak in this new theory that there was another attempt to deliver guns the next day, that once again, they didn't surveil.

They didn't take photos. They didn't try and intercept. We're just meant to believe that it's something that happened. And the under and the undercover cover. So the undercover. have a cover manager. So the undercover manager had said to the undercovers, do not get in a vehicle with anybody

and always stay with your partner. They got in Tony's truck and they were split up. So why did they defy the orders? And they were told, no, I can't, yeah. It just, they defied the orders. Yeah. And then everything was code. If they did something like Jackstowns was code,

Lindsay Butler was big guns. And the emoji lesson we got, Sean, oh my gosh. emoji this. This emoji meant that, oh, they had an emoji at the end of that text. And we're all going, like we all use emojis and they were just going on and on and words. Like these words may end up putting you. in jail. War, revolution, self-defense, code, emojis, guitar case, trailer jacks, hill you will die on, tools, delivery, sexy gun, protest, mandates, church, group, combat, we, they,

us, grinder, buddies, gophers, parts, heavy stuff, and I'm sure there's many more that they deem code. Can I, is it, is it, you know, am I putting too, uh, too much of a bow on it if I say, you went to the trial expecting, I don't know, if you, if any of us expected the crown to like blow us away with all this, you know, great information. But as you're watching it play out and as I'm listening to you, talk about watching a play out, I just think it was more confusing than anything. It was slow.

It was dull. You go like, you have nothing here. This is the most ridiculous thing. And yet they still sit behind bars as we speak today. And, you know, I have been convicted guilty of several things. I mean, I don't even know what mischief at this point means. You know, like we can just go to Tamara and Chris and, I mean, and others that have been convicted of the same thing. I mean, geez, they flew across the country to get Tamara for that one as well.

And, you know, and on and on it goes. One of the things, well, I'll start there. Am I right in my kind of my summarizing? of what I'm hearing from the three of you that, you know, you expected them to have at least a couple of things and everywhere where they went with, we got you. You're like, but you don't actually have anything, and it's a little more confusing than anything listening to it.

It was a sea of information, and that's the judge's words. It was a sea of information. There were binders, three big binders. There was digital copies of, I can't even imagine how much stuff. It was so confusing. But we did learn, some stats and only three to five percent of all cases ever make it to a courtroom to a trial.

So you got to assume, go back two and a half years ago, there might have been some chatter. We'll never get into courtroom. Don't worry. This will never happen. But it happened. And now they're sitting there and they're going, okay, here we are. We've got to do something. We're in a courtroom. But I don't think they ever, that was never an intention. They thought these guys would plea out that they would get lost. No money, no support that these guys will take a charge and plea out. And no money, no support and no bail, which is like if you keep, if you detain someone for long enough, they will plead to just about anything to get their freedom back.

So yeah, I believe granny's right. I believe that it was never their intention for it to get to trial. And the only reason it did was because of Granny and Danielle and Nikki and other supporters, but primarily because of these three women who just fought tirelessly and wouldn't be chased away. They received so much abuse for their help. It's mind-blowing, absolutely mind-blowing. But these women would not be moved. And they just kept their heads down.

They kept fighting and helping and raising money. and raising awareness. And at some point, you know, two of the men did plead out. And the other two just said, no, we're not going to plead out. We want to have our day in court. And I believe for the four weeks that the Crown presented their case, I believe that most people were sitting there waiting for to figure out what the theory was, like to make sense of it, like what exactly are they getting at here?

And it wasn't until their closing remarks, which was a mere two and a half hours, that you got the actual sort of idea that they're trying to present. And at that point, speaking for myself, I was just, I was just offended. I felt like I'd been insulted, that they expected me to believe this crap was mind-blowing. And I wasn't the least bit surprised that the jury returned a not-guilty version. on conspiracy because I just couldn't see how they could possibly get there. There wasn't anything to support conspiracy. Sean, you know the most alarming thing and to me sitting in the courtroom, the investigative team was never called by the Crown.

I turned around in the courtroom one day and during the Crown's closing arguments, the investigative team was sitting in the back of the courtroom. And by investigative team, you're talking the undercover officers. You're talking the RCMP. What do we mean exactly? Sargent's, the investigative team of this investigation. And I had asked around to several people and several people who have some background and knowledge. And they said, you never see an investigative team come sit in a courtroom during closing arguments in a trial.

It was very odd. Everything about this trial, everything about the last two and a half years. The whole thing, there's something wrong with the whole narrative. It's one of those situations where you're like, you just know there's a piece of the puzzle that you're not being told. And if you just knew what it was, it would all make sense. And there's promotions that happened starting March 2022 with one man that perjured himself up on the stand. Then August, another one got a promotion. We just recently found out one of the undercovers got a promotion. Their lives are excelling as these two are still behind the door

of a locked remount. And in the in the ATIP report, it shows from one of the sergeants in his notes that the crown was deeply embedded in the investigation. The crown should have been removed from this case right before it even got going. Yeah, the Crown prosecutor was actually on-site in Coots assisting with the investigation while it was unfolding. So he should have recused himself from being the prosecutor at trial. Did Tony and Chris get to take the stand? I assume yes. Chris did, yes.

Not Tony. No, Tony, he put forward his statement. Isn't segregation video. I'm just curious, you know, from your standpoint then on Chris getting to take the stand, you know, like 900 days essentially of sitting where basically nobody's heard from them. I mean, I know that that's not exactly true, but it's not not exactly true either. You know, what was that moment like in the courtroom hearing from one of them and being asked questions and I assume more? Chris did a wonderful job.

Can you imagine being in the witness box and in front of you is the man that has held you there for 900, basically close to 900 days at that time? Chris stayed calm. He was very collected in his thoughts. He was honest. He was rawly honest. He did a wonderful job. And I was proud of him. And after Chris was done, that's when they changed their narrative on a different date.

I, you know, I just reminded myself, you know, you three have brought up Danielle multiple times. I've never had Daniel on before. And so I want to give a shout out to Danielle. And an apology for not bringing her on. I guess I should have invited her as well. You know, I kind of feel bad about that. That is on me, Danielle, nobody else. I try to stick to four people, but the amount of times her names come up, I should point that out.

And just another shout out to her for all the work she's done. Because obviously, when you three are bringing it up, it must stick out quite a bit. I'm going to plug, Danielle. I have to do it. Sure. That lady has the most brilliant mind. I am not kidding. Like, love her to pieces.

She retains all this knowledge, all this court stuff. I don't know where it comes from because that's not her background, but she sees it for what it is and understands it. And her mind is just, she's been, she's been a true angel in all of this. Well, then here's,

here's, Danielle, wherever you're sitting, I'm going to get a hold of you and we'll just bring you on in a different round table. How's that? We can just, we can make this happen. It's almost like this guy podcast five days a week or something,

you know? When, when you look, I, I listen to, Chris Chris's lawyer talking, I believe. I think she was getting asked questions

if memory serves me correct. One of the things she talked about was the he was found, Tony was found guilty of, she just made reference to it, how it was different than Chris. Explosive.

Possession of explosives. Am I saying that right? I hope I'm saying that right. I was like, I don't know. Did he have a, you know, I'm thinking, of Wiley Coyote or something,

having a, you know, just a truck full of dynamite or something. Can you three break down for me what this explosive thing is all about? This is the biggest misconception where the public has taken this and ran, where many people in the public have thought that Tony had explosive devices and coupes, which is absolutely 100% not true, false. So what had happened, back in 2009, Tony and his father, They have a business called Iron Rock Enterprises, and they were mining sandstone. And they would use a saw or drill bits to cut the sandstone because the sandstone is a very durable stone.

And the problem was the drill bits were getting stuck. Tony's father is a plumber by trade. And actually, most people don't know this. Tony is the youngest red-sealed plumber in Canadian history. And so his father, drill bits are very expensive for anybody who does mining. And the drill bits were getting stuck in the sandstone. And so Tony's father made these small little firecrackers, as they put it. And they're just plumbing pipe with gunpowder.

And they would put it down hole to release the drill bit. Didn't really work well. And so Tony's father had made a couple devices. And in 2007, and this was back between 2009 and 2012. They were doing this mining. And Tony's father passed away in 2017. And so Tony had to go clean out his whole shop with all his plumbing supplies. And in this box were two devices that Tony's dad had built.

And Tony had just taken everything from his dad's shop, put everything in his shop. And so these were in a box, above his toolbox, way, way up. And when they come to search his house, and Tony was asked if he had explosives, or bombs, as they call it, and Tony said no. And he had actually forgot about this because he had cleaned out his father's garage back in 2017 and moved everything into his shop. And in his shop, way above at the top, were these two devices in the bus. box that were rusted. They had to bust apart because they were so old, rusted. The gunpowder was clumped together and here they got the explosive charge. So it wasn't a Coots?

No, it was. Two hundred kilometers north of Coots. Yep. Say that number again, Stavlin? 200 kilometers north of Coots and the crown never alleged that Tony had any intention of taking them to Coots. they were just they were just there to sound scary they didn't they never alleged there was any purpose or intent all they alleged was that he had them which is true and it was illegal that's

true too so we always knew that he would be found guilty of that there's no he doesn't have okay we need to back that up a little bit the judge did say and he went back and he corrected himself in instructions to the jury you need two things to to convict knowledge and possession. Now you can lose knowledge if you forget they were there. That's why it was a little confusing when it did actually come back because Tony did forget about them. That's true.

And the jury could have tried to run with that. But my understanding was that the judge was just trying to dot all of his eyes and cross all his tease. But it's part of the law. So they could have come back. He said, you need to have knowledge and possession. If you forget about them, then you no longer have knowledge. But he said the crown only need to show that Tony had knowledge and possession at some time.

So at one time, he did. I think there's a gray area there. This is why I would not be a good lawyer. I'm hearing you both talk and I'm going, okay, okay. But they're on trial for conspiracy to commit murder against the RCMP sitting at the Coots blockade, not for having illegal explosives on a farm 200 kilometers away. How does that even go into guilty in that? Because when you see it, you see, oh, they found them guilty of, oh, dangerous.

Because just think of the common public, okay? You're reading the story. Oh, conspiracy to commit murder. All they must not have had enough to stick. But they were a possession of weapons. They were a possession of explosives. You know something was going on. When you hear you talk about the explosives, you're like, it doesn't even make sense.

because under that logic, you could take anyone who is sitting in Ottawa, and they could be in possession of illegal, just take whatever you want. If you went and ran and searched all their places, I'm sure you're bound to find something, aren't you? Or am I just thinking about this completely wrong? Well, I think in a more fair world, the jury would have been allowed to look at it in the context of the actual case, in which case they would say, well, they were charged with conspiracy to commit murder, which is the reason why Tony's property was searched in the first place.

And then these explosive devices were seized, and now he's being charged with these devices. But if that conspiracy charge is invalid, then we should just forget about whatever circumstantial stuff they found. But that's not the way the law works. They were asked, did he have these explosives and was it legal? And they had to look at the answer is yes, he had explosives.

No, they were not illegal. And we can't bring in an expert to say, like, even if you tried lighting these suckers up right now, they're so in terrible shape they're from 10 years ago, you don't get it. Like this isn't anything worthy of them. They were so rusted. They had to actually smash them apart

to get them apart to test the gunpow. in them and they actually they tested the fuse they tested the gun power but they never tested the thing to see if it would actually work okay well that that one I don't know and these these were actually built by Tony's father if he was still alive today would be absolutely devastated that his son is getting charged with this how about possession of weapons folks like did they was there guns you know like we've talked about all these shipments and then it turns out there was no hockey bag or you know

from what i'm understanding there's no giant hockey bag going through all the you know the uh police blockades and and and you know and then they check on it 24 hours later and everything else and it's a bit ridiculous um but as far you know like i look okay so not guilty to can conspic oh man for conspiracy to commit murder of police officers that's now four four men all charged to that all found not guilty correct i'm not wrong there Okay, so boom, that one, all the articles and everything and the stories, like right out the door, you can just throw it in the waste. Yeah, that's by far the most serious charge. Correct.

Yeah. And then they're all found guilty. You know, you folks know this way better than I do, but possession of weapons for dangerous purposes. I know that's not the exact charge to all of them, but for Chris and Tony, that's the one they got to stick. So they obviously had a weapon sitting in Coots. And then what does dangerous purposes mean? Risk to the public, safety of the public. So I'll go through everything with Tony.

So when Tony was leaving, Tony had his pickup truck and he had his gravel truck. And because his gravel truck did not have a sleeper on it, we had spent a few days, him and me trying to figure out who we would get to drive pickup down the night before one of his friends had actually come to Tony's place and got his pickup brought his pickup back to Clarissom and then Tony drove his dump truck Tony always carried his 22 and a shotgun underneath the seat of this truck that's what Tony had was the 22 and a shotgun everybody if anybody knows anything about guns if you were going to do what they accused him of you're not taking a 22 and a shotgun to kill police.

So anyways, Tony had, his friend had drove his truck to Coots. Tony had drove his gravel truck to Coots. And as Tony was driving around, a couple days later, he happened to look under his seat. And, oh shit. I'm at a protest and I have my 22 and I have my shotgun. Chris Carbert had been kind enough to let him. Tony stand his trailer. So Tony had taken his shotgun in his 22, put it in Chris's trailer under the bed because his trailer was off the protest site. So thinking he was doing the right

thing because his pickup was at the protest that if somebody would have his pickup, that they would be locked away off site in a trailer that they would be secure. And that's what happened with Tony. And then the crown had said in a separate void ear, that when Tony said his 22 was used for his gopher gun, the crown had stated to him, oh, gophers, meaning code for killing cops. A 22 is used for killing gophers, and his shotgun he was used for killing coyotes

or skeet shooting. Yeah. How many people have drove around, 22 shotgun, they were legally. owned. If you're sitting in Eminton, they don't understand. If you're sitting out in rural Alberta, Saskatchewan,

I'm going to extend it to probably BC and Manitoba. You understand what you're talking about right away, right? The old 22, yeah, I mean, it scares off a lot of gophers. That's roughly

what you're going to do with that little sucker. And the majority of the, like lots of the ammunition, they found at Tony's place was a 24. At one point during the trial, you know, towards the end, the judge was trying to elicit the help of the Crown and the defense lawyers to write his final charge, his final instructions to the jury. So he was having them go through like each charge and talk about how, you know, the defense would respond to the charge and stuff like that. And when it came time to talk about the weapons of a dangerous purpose charge, he asked Chris Carbert's lawyer, Catherine Bayek, what her opinion was.

And she said, well, she said, Your Honor, to be honest with you, I haven't even paid a lot of thought to it because in my mind, it's connected to the conspiracy charge and you can't really have one without the other. And the judge said, yeah, I have been thinking about it that way myself. But there is, he said, it did occur to me that there might be a small possibility that the jury could find a path to convict on the one charge without the conspiracy. And so in his own mind, like it was a small possibility. But really one would assume you have to have that conspiracy

in order for those guns to become guns of a dangerous purpose. So how the jury actually got there were they convicted on the one charge, but not the conspiracy, is actually a bit of a mystery in my mind. I would love to have been able to be a fly on the wall to figure out how we got there. Forgive me on the jury. There's not like they come out and write a report or anything after, right? No, there's no way to read. The process will be secret for the rest of time.

Yeah. And I always confuse them. Like, I feel it was information overload. Yeah. And there was a whole, remember the void ear about self. defense. So there was a whole discussion on self-defense. So if I have a bat in my car and I've deemed that bat is going to be for my self-defense, it's no longer for self-defense. Because self-defense means I'm going to grab my water bottle and I'm going to bash the guy. There was no thought

into my water bottle. So now it's self-defense. But if I put intention, it's not self-defense. I'm sure the jury had to be so confused. And that was a- That was a sorry Nicky go ahead and the thing was Chris Lysak was arrested no weapon on him didn't resist arrest Tony was arrested in front of smugglers no weapons on him didn't resist as resist resist arrest Chris Carbert was sick in his trailer walked out of his trailer locked his trailer and did not resist arrest either yeah but you go back to what you're just saying just Granny, I do think you're on to something there because the Crown put a lot of emphasis on the fact that so at one point when Chris was on the stand, he talked about a scenario, a fear in his

mind that eventually the mandates would become more and more harsh to the point where they would start forcefully injecting people. That was something that weighed on him, this idea. And so So he had this scenario in his mind where if that started to happen, he was going to grab his son and grab his trailer with all the stuff he'd prepped and go up into the mountains to hide. And it was put to him, well, what would you do if, you know, some sort of law enforcement or public health or whatever came and found you in the mountains and forcefully injected you in your son?

And Chris said, well, I would have no choice at that point but to try and defend myself, drink and my family. And so that was used. That was that was that the crown kept emphasizing that story and in Chris and sorry, in Tony's case during the interrogation video when the night that he was arrested, he had told his own scenario where he thought he was worried that, you know, at some point the UN would invade Canada or the Chinese military would invade Canada. And so he had said, if he was in a situation where, and maybe even the RCMP, if some entity was willfully killing women and children, then he would feel like there was no other choice, as any of us would.

There was no other choice. They're randomly killing women and children. Now we need to fight back against that power. And so they use that. They really emphasize that. So I think, I think granny's right at that. I think. And Tony was more about the UN and the Chinese.

He said he would stand with the RCMP. He told the guy that was interrogating him that he, he said, Andy, I would stand with you. I would stand with you. He always said he would, he said maybe these other entities would replace the RCMP. But he always said he would stand with the RCMP. And he would hope the RCMP would stand with him. He said that we would rather, like he said he doesn't have a problem with them.

And even if there was a hypothetical problem sometime in the future, it was not close to being the present reality. But I think the point that I try to make, which I think is related to the point you made earlier, is that the narrative that the crown presented during the trial was that these guys were on the offense. They were planning to kill RCP members. But they also made a big deal about these defensive statements that were hypothetical. But that's the only thing I can think of that the jury used to convict on weapons of a dangerous purpose as they went back and said, well, they did talk about potentially defending themselves. So maybe that's what they use as a basis for convicting on that charge. And mischief, there's two cases right now that have actually.

actually been sentenced out there. One was in Ottawa and another one was out. She's from Winnipeg, but she's also from Ottawa when she was arrested there. And they got next to nothing for mischief. So this 10-year sentence they're talking about, there's already precedence set where there was no jail time and there was no, they had never been in jail. So to say time served, I think we need to be very careful with that. I feel that they're really trying to pull off this time served, which doesn't work for people that have never had time served. We need to be careful with this mischief charge. I feel that's going to be a weapon against us. And the biggest, the biggest thing with this case is, and it should actually terrify everybody. They set

precedence. And so precedence is, well, next time you go to protests, you stand up, you talk to police and we don't deem you, we deem you threatening, boom, you charge you with mischief. We're going to charge you with weapons of a dangerous purpose. We're going to charge you for anything that they can. It sets precedence going forward. And this is where we have to stand up so it doesn't set precedence. It could be very careful.

And thank God that we did stand up insofar as we have. like insofar as we've knocked off the charge for conspiracy to commit murder because that was the last justification for the Emergencies Act. In his decision, I believe last year in the federal court of Canada, Justice Mosley, he declared that the Emergencies Act invocation had been illegal and unjustified, but in his decision, he specifically mentioned Coots, and he said that while the Invocation Emergencies Act

was was was unjustifiable he said had i'd been in that situation with what was unfolding in coots i might have made the same call so even in his decision he was still using coots as a just referencing it yeah but now that's off the table there's there was nothing untoward there's certainly not a threat to the rcmp and certainly not a national emergency happening in coots it's you know it's it's kind of crazy to me to be sitting here at this part in the in the journey and i remember two years ago uh people saying the you know pointing out exactly what you just said right like this is exactly what happened and it's taken you know two years for for you know more and more and more of the story to come out for it to go to trial and to get to see certain things play

out right in front of you is um you know obviously it's It's dark days, but it's really fascinating sitting on this side. I know it's not a fun time, but it is, I don't know, I appreciate you all coming on and enlightening me and the audience on what you've been seeing because I think for so long, it's just been kind of hidden in a shroud of secrecy, right? How long media is not allowed to talk about anything? You're like, okay, so what the hell is happening then, you know? Well, you know, the last two years you feel like the judicial system has been weaponized against the people. And people don't trust anything anymore. People are more apt to investigate, do their own homework now.

And I think that of all this evil, and it's been a two and a half year nightmare, and especially for these four men, but the people we've met along the way, and I think the biggest thing for the crown, they did not expect the people to stand behind these men, show their support, fill that courtroom, write them, boxes and boxes and boxes of letters and get to this date. It is actually truly amazing, the people we've met and the light that's been brought to this because good people said we're not going to believe this. Well, I appreciate you all coming on.

Any final thoughts before I let you out of here? Yeah, I don't know if I have anything to really add other than I'm just, you know, You want this to come, you know, you want now, what are we talking about? I wrote it down here. August 19th to 23rd. Geez, that feels, you know, like for how long they've been in there? That's a very short time. But at the same time, knowing what you know now, it's like, why make them wait any longer? But that's just me.

That's just me sitting on this side. Any final thoughts before I let you off here? Well, these two men are still have lawyer bills and they will come out of this with a lawyer's bill. And I've said in the past, If we can get a thousand people to donate $100 each, it'll put a dent in that lawyer's bill because they're going to come out in debt. So if you can spare a few dollars or, you know, group a coffee date together and throw it in a bucket. Where can people go, Granny? Okay, for Tony, it's called, and it's e-transfers, help Tony at protonmail.com.

And for Chris Carbert, help Chris Carbert at gmail.com. you know as can and for and just so i'm going to hop in here real fast what i'm going to get granny to do is she's going to email me the links i'm going to put them in the show notes so that people can just go down and click because i'm going to get a bunch of texts on this and i'm still in the states and my phone ain't working properly so just go down on the show notes that way if you want to donate you can um sorry to cut you off and keep praying the prayers are helping tony and chris can both feel the love um they're not out of this yet and uh keep praying and help them financially if you can.

And Sean, you know, it's good people like you that want to talk about these guys that don't let their story go by the wayside. I just want to thank the last two and a half years and the people who continue to support these guys because that is so very important, more than people can ever imagine. And yeah, we're going to get through this. And Chris, he's got two children. He needs to go home too. Tony's got an 80-year-old mother that you don't get that two and a half years back.

And, you know, Chris has lost his father. He's lost his brother. He's lost many other family members. But he never got to say goodbye to. So, and for two and a half years, he hasn't been able to tuck his kids into bed. Stavlin? I mean, there's so many, so many takeaways from this whole saga. We need to expect more of the judicial system.

We need to expect more of the news media. You need to expect more of our fellow Canadians. I believe part of the reason why this even happened in the first place is because we're in a situation where it's a culture war, left versus right. Half the country hates the other half and they're willing to believe whatever terrible thing you say. Just as a culture, we need to start coming together again. We need to stop the vilification. And we need to just, yeah, expect more of our law enforcement. our judicial system and our politicians.

It's time that people, intelligent, caring people take more of a stand and insist on having a better society. And I do want to say one more thing, Sean, sorry. One thing that is still, I've had to put on the backburn a little bit is health care in these remand centers. It's non-existent. And how many more people are suffering, which in there, that Tony's been suffering from, that's one thing that's brought light to the public.

Tom Engle's been a big support of fighting for prisoners' rights. So I think that's brought an eye-opening to the public that this isn't a third world problem. It's a first world problem of people being mistreated. This just doesn't happen in other countries. It's here. All of this has exposed a lot of problems. and we still have a lot of work to do. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for all doing what you do and for giving me some time today.

I do appreciate you coming on and talking openly and candidly about what has been happening back in Alberta. And we'll be paying attention here in August as I'm sure the events will continue to unfold and we'll be waiting to see what comes of the sentencing here August 19th, the 23rd is the newest date. we'll see if that date sticks. I won't hold my breath. But certainly, yeah, certainly we'll be paying attention. Thanks again, all of you for hopping on today. And we'll stay in touch.

Okay. Thank you, Sean. Okay, thank you.