Shaun Newman Podcast - #711 - Mike Rude

Episode Date: September 17, 2024

Retired Sergeant Mike Rude is a 28 year Veteran of the Canadian Armed Forces who served as a Paratrooper for The Canadian Airborne Regiment, Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry and with the Canadian Rangers. His operational deployments included Afghanistan, Somalia, and Bosnia. We discuss the fallout of the Canadian military giving its soldiers mefloquine in the early 90’s. Clothing Link:⁠⁠⁠https://snp-8.creator-spring.com/listing/the-mashup-collection⁠⁠ Text Shaun 587-217-8500 Substack:https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcast E-transfer here: [e-mail] Silver Gold Bull Links: Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/ Email: [e-mail] Grahame: [phone]

This is Tom Longo. This is Alex Kraner. This is Lila Micklewaite. Hi, this is David Collum. Hey, this is Gordon McGill. This is Kirk Libdemo. This is Chris Sims. This is James Lindsay, and welcome to the Sean Newman podcast.

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We got lots of people there. Paying attention to the Sunday night week in review. We just had our fifth one this week. And for the paid subscriber, you got to see a little behind the scenes of Daniel Smith being in studio. You also get to see a newly created video on Monday, a preview of what's coming up on Mondays. So there's a little bit for everybody. Of course, you can sign up for free.

It's one email a week right now, Sundays at 5. And if you haven't signed up for that, you know, just scroll down on the show notes, find the substack, click on it. I'm not going to blow your email inbox up just yet. My plan is I hate that, so I'm trying to make it value. And so once every Sunday at 5, you're getting an email.

It's giving you the week and review, so that way you can, you know, if you miss a couple episodes, you can get a quick 20-second hitter on it and go, oh, that looks, oh, I missed that one. And this, it's been a lot of fun on this side. I've been having lots of fun with it.

Go to Substack. That's where we're going to be, you know, announcing some different things like, hey, Sean's heading to Jacksonville, Florida. So that came out of nowhere. Legacy interviews, there's been a buzz. I've gotten a whole bunch of texts here. So if you're interested in getting a legacy,

interview. There's only three left. I would suggest you move on it quick. Yeah, like last night, I had three different texts about it. So who knows? Maybe that's going to dry up real fast. I only want to do five. I want to make sure that I have time and can give them the effort they need to ensure that your loved one gets their story told and all the questions asked properly. Friday, November 29th, we got the S&P Christmas party bringing in dueling pianos to the Gold Horse Casino. If you're interested in a table, Text me in the show notes. I would love to hear from you.

And I think that's got it up for, you know, I feel like that's a lot of the stuff going on here. All right. Let's get on to that tale of the tape. He's a retired sergeant who spent 28 years in the Canadian Armed Furrisis. He served as a paratrooper for the Canadian Airborne Regiment, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry and with the Canadian Rangers. His operational deployment included Afghanistan, Somalia, and Bosnia.

He now hosts the Rood Awakening Tour podcast. I'm talking about Mike Rood. buckle up here we go welcome to the Sean newman podcast today I'm joined by Mike Rood so sir thanks for making an end you're very welcome and thanks for the invite very very very very blessed to be here today well I tell you when you get recommended by Jamie Sinclair and I know we all have our thoughts on Jamie because Jamie's become one of these guests on the podcast who some people absolutely love and a few wish he used a little better language at times I would

Say is usually their biggest qualm with them. Either way, Jamie's got a heart of gold. That's the way I look at it. And we met in the dark days of COVID, and since then it's just been a budding friendship, I guess. Yep. And anyways, he told me a little bit about your story. And he's like, would you have them on? And I've told Jamie this since the beginning, along with Chuck Prodnick, and a whole bunch of others, Willie.

And I'm spacing on a ton of names here, and I apologize. But one of the things about Canadian military is I just, Never hear any of the stories. And that could be because I live under a rock. Or it's because, you know, maybe there's no time to tell Canadian military stories. I have no idea. So anytime I get the opportunity to bring somebody into the studio, to hear another story, I think, you know, it's something that I'm very honored that Jamie entrust me with bringing somebody like yourself into.

That it's going to be somewhere where we can hear a little bit and discuss some things and just share some things that probably most Canadians. haven't heard. So with that being said, Mike, let's start with your story. Where are you from? And maybe what year did you get involved in the Canadian military? So I grew up really like around up until grade six and out in La Ducke. And then from there, we moved to Camrose, southeast of Camrose, in Roseland, just south of Daysland, or Balfe, I should say. And, uh, George. I joined the military in 1988 on my sister's birthday, January 21st, is when I took my oath. And in 2010 is when I served 22 and a half years in the regular army, and then retired in order to join the reserves and went to Newfoundland and work with the Canadian Rangers in Newfoundland and Labrador for another four years, more or less. and then kind of my wheels fell off

and I went on like a sick leave, if you would, for two years and then was released. Before we get to the wheels falling off. Yeah, I love when the guy goes, yeah, I started in 88 and then I hopped 20 years. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. 88, what was it about the Canadian military that back then you're like, I want to, you know,

I want to go serve my country. I want to sign up and do that. What was it about that that appealed to you back then? So, you know, I was like 12 years old. I think, wrote to the recruiting center in Edmonton requesting a package to see how to, you know, to join the military and, you know, got the package when I was 12 years old and said, okay, I need grade 10 education. So that's my only goal. So I hit grade 10 and then just kind of waited and then signed up as I pretty much kind of finished. So you're grade 11 when you signed up?

Well, like I was here in Alberta, I was, I think, three credits short of my high school diploma. Okay. But it really didn't matter because I wanted to join the military and I had their requirements. So I put in, applied and signed up in January of 88. You've probably seen, like, every time I hear a Canadian military guy tell their story about being in high school and like I'm getting in and this is what I'm going to do. I'm like, I just don't, I don't know, I don't do, is that the same world we live in today? Do you see kids going like, I'm joining the Canadian military or is that like a dying sector? Yeah, almost seems that way.

And it's almost dying, if you would. Even to say, so I started out my career, right? So when you sign up, whatever recruiting center you go to is the one kind of where your career starts. So mine started with, you know, Canadian forces recruit. Center, Edmonton, CFRC, Edmonton. Then I, you know, went through my whole career, and at the end of my career, I ended up working at the Recruiting Center in Edmonton and working as one of the Aboriginal recruiters. And then I pretty much came close to retiring from there. So I would have started and ended in the very place I...

And the place you started from. Yeah, yeah. So. Although the recruiting center is not in the same building it was when I got in. But, you know. When you got involved in the military, you signed up, right? You get your, how old were you? 18. Did what did you?

I was showed on my 19th birthday. What did your parents think? Were they all for it? Were they? Yeah, my mom was pretty much all for it. She was a single mother then. So my mom and my two sisters took the train. plane or not the plane but took the bus all the way to nova scotia to see my graduation

from the military then i think there were strikes on and then they ended up on the train as well trying to come back planes trains automobiles so they were you know to come see my graduation they were i then i graduated out of wainwright out of my infantry battle school so then uh in wainwright of course they came to there and you know my sister had to ask like the commanding officer if i could ride in the helicopter back with them to edmonton or whatever and it was like you know what are you asking a question like that for but uh he joked about it or whatever but wasn't you know it was one of those questions that as a private i didn't want to hear right but what uh what did you enjoy like when you when you're telling a younger man let's say about

about a career in the military. What was it about that group of people that you look back on and go, like, this is what it does for you? So, like, you know, kind of say even when I first got in, it's like joining, it's like being part of a big family somewhat, right? That's really what I kind of would equate it to. And then, you know, when I first got there and you're marching around or learning how to march around and then looking at the back of your, at the back of our partner.

because I went through in January. And, you know, on the back of your, like your slip on, so it has Canada on it, and then you would have your rank later, would be on that slip on. But just, you know, looking at it, it's saying Canada, here I am, serving my country now. And, you know, just, you know, made me feel good inside that I was doing that. And then really everybody,

everybody that I serve with becomes in part a that can be part of your support network later when you're say when the wheels are falling off perhaps right so where do you get to deploy where do you get deployed to first like I mean you first join you go through 10 weeks of basic training which I did in Saint-Jean or not San Jean that's where it is now Saint-Jean Quebec but it was in Cornwallis Nova Scotia. Finished that, 10 weeks, then went on to infantry battle school. That was another 16 weeks of training.

And then I got posted to Calgary to the 1st Battalion, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry. Did, you know, a year and a bit there. Did my jump course. Did you notice? I hadn't, but now that we have it, I have to put it on the table. I'm actually wearing the VP

tie. I keep telling Jamie, I've got to get a little better flag in here. I'm appreciative to have a flag, but... He may have to talk to you afterwards, but, you know, we'll let him handle that. Anyways, my apologies, just when I hear the Patricia's and you get...

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so, you know, went to the first, did my jump course, and then, say the first battalion was going to deploy to Cyprus on a peacekeeping mission. I think they were going in 1990 or 91. And in the spring of 90, I got posted to the airborne regiment.

So I did my jump course. They said, if you do it, you're going to get posted. And it's like, that's what I want. What did you think of the airborne regiment? it was uh because up until this point your feet are firmly on the ground correct yes okay so i was with a mechanized unit you know traveling around in armored vehicles stuff like that sure now you're going to start jumping out of airplanes getting a ride to the battlefield per se and now i went to the airborne and you start your exercise off by jumping in right so you know at a thousand feet or

at one point we worked down to 800 feet we're jumping from but the overall the physical fitness level was like probably 10 times what it was in a in an infantry battalion so when so you had to be did i hear that right you had to be more fit to be an airborne than just to be yeah why what's the difference between because you jump in and then you walk then you have to hoof it to where you're going yeah okay okay all right that makes sense did a lot of walking. Did you like it? Oh no it was it was uh like what was it was like what was it was it. Like what was it was it. I'll just catch the ride. No I want to jump out of a moving plane a perfectly good plane and then hit the ground and start what better way to start an exercise

than with an adrenaline rush right? Wouldn't the whole thing be an adrenaline rush? Well it could be but I mean you know jumping out of the plane you're all pumped up boom you go out the plan you exit and the Exercise starts. You pack up your shoot. You drop that in an or a, in an ORV, get organized, and then march off to your objective. So, you know, we did a lot of walking, right? My first year, it was like every week we were doing a 10-mile march. One time we did a 10-mile march to a range, did a shoot.

We thought we were getting on the trucks, and the officer had a truck there for us, but it was just to follow us. And we walked back again, right? So now, he ended up paying for that later. The next day, we went for a run down by the river, and we did a, like, on the beach and doing a, you know, working out on the beach running back and forth,

blah, blah, blah, blah. and then pass the guy over our heads, right, passing the guy over like that. So when the officer got to the middle, we hauled them out and threw him in the river to make them pay for making us walk back, right? So needless to say, we didn't run by the river for, you know, a few weeks because that was in November.

So it was a bit cool for them. When do you end up in Somalia, where everything started taking the drug and everything. Yeah, like how far into your career is that? So Smalley was 92, so like four years. So like first four years into your military, they're like, okay, in order to go here, we're going to try out with this. So we had to take a drug in order to deploy.

So an anti-malaria drug. Okay. And for the audience, what was the anti-malaria drug that they? Was the drug mephlequin or, you know, a, you know, a name brand would be larium. Okay. Yeah. So, and, uh,

the idea of that was to prevent, prevent malaria. And the drug was the only drug at the time that you can take once a week, right? Every other drug for, for malaria, you had to take once a day. So this was the first drug that was once a week. Yeah.

Did anybody, did anybody, I'm assuming nobody went, um, excuse me, what are the health risk was this? I assume that nobody was doing that? There was one guy. One guy? Well there was so there was a guy so in 1998 they did a they did a the fifth estate

I believe did a episode on Mephyloquin and talking about the drug and everything and one of the guys that was on it was a guy that was saying when we were taking it saying no no no I don't want to take this. Do you see this? You see some of the

different things associated with it or whatever? So I'm not sure if he took it or not. But now even in the last week, I found out that I believe one of the doctors was not taking mafliquin while we, when we were deployed, he was taking a daily dose. So I don't think he trusted it.

So then, but everybody else, everybody was forced, right? you'd put the pill in your hand, watch you, throw it in your mouth, open your mouth, yeah, okay, you took it. Right, that's what they would do. They weren't messing around when it came to. No, to make sure you took your drug. So when you're over in, where boats is this?

Where did you get deployed? So this was in Somalia. So, which is, I guess, would that be west of, or east of, of Ethiopia. It's kind of on the, right near Djibouti, you'll have Djibouti is connected to Somalia. Somalia kind of runs down the coastline.

It's more narrow and connected to Ethiopia and Kenya. It's supposed to have the nicest beaches in the world, but it's got shark-infested waters. So I'm, for the listener, I've pulled out my phone. I don't mean to be rude. I'm like, Somalia. Yeah, I'm trying to get it to pull up on my map because I would love to just see it. And, of course, like, it doesn't, oh, there we go.

There we go. Okay. Just so I can put a picture in my head. Like, it's, it's funny because I know where Madagascar is for a weird reason, or for an odd reason, I guess. So it's close to Madagascar. Yeah. Essentially. North.

North. North of it. And it's supposed to, sorry, it's supposed to have the nicest beaches. But it's shark infested. Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. So you're deployed to Smaya.

Yeah. And what's the point of being deployed to Smiley? So at the time, it was like a humanitarian mission. They were, you know, people were starving there. And just even leading up to that, the year before the airborne regiment, we were supposed to deploy to the Western Sahara on a peacekeeping mission. Sure. Did all the training, took the time off before deploying,

and then when we were to deploy, they canceled the mission. And then fast forward one year. Now we're on doing the same kind of thing, going into the same kind of country. Somalia had no form of government. It was being run by warlords, right? So no government, no real consequences prior to going into. So we were going, we were to go to Somalia as, peacekeepers with the UN.

So our vehicles were painted white with black UN writing on the turrets, right? A week before going into Somalia, the Americans went ashore in Mogadishu, like they had the Navy SEALs go ashore. CNN was waiting for them on the beach, right? They were, you know, it was all played out on TV. And then it went from a peacekeeping mission to a peacemaking.

So we're now driving around in white vehicles on a peacemaking mission, right? What the heck this peacemaking mean? So then that was to enforce the peace so then we could use deadly force in order to... Keep peace. Keep peace, right? Did you... Forgive me. if I've ever heard peacemaking compared to peacekeeping.

This might be the first time. And once again, I will say this for the thousandth time on this thing. I may live under a rock, folks. When you say peacemaking versus peacekeeping, did you ever do peacekeeping as well? Yeah, so I went to Bosnia under a peacekeeping. Which one did you prefer? Well, I'm smaller. You like peacemaking.

Because if you're in a dangerous, yeah, if I'm understanding this right, and feel free to correct me, peacekeeping from what I've heard about that is you can't fire at anything your kind of hands are tied so you're there but you have no teeth yes peace making what I'm what I'm hearing

is like you're there you're wearing the colors but if things start to get a little hairy you're fine to engage and do what you must which means you actually you come with peace but if they won't you know if things start to go south you can protect yourselves

and defend the people surrounding you Yep. Yes. And, you know. Does that happen lots? Sorry. I just, once again, we're sold this thing of peacekeeping all the time. Peacekeeping, canon. We're peacekeepers.

That's what we do. We go everywhere. Peacekeeping, peacekeeping. And then if you watch documentaries on it, movies on it, whether or not they get it completely right, is that, you know, your hands are tied and you can't do anything. And atrocities are happening right in front of you, but you're kind of like crap. Whereas peace making, I've never heard that before. Then you stop, yeah.

Well, you see, Adrosities, you stop it in its tracks, I assume. Well, I mean, if you, so like yesterday was the anniversary, I believe, of the Madak pocket, right? And that was... Medak pocket? So they were there to peacekeep, right? But then... What is it the Madak pocket? So it was a pocket that was inside Croatia or whichever...

I don't know the full layout of it, but... So it was a narrow... corridor or that pocket that was being held out by peacekeepers that were kind of keeping the sides apart. And I believe it was the Croats decided to do an offensive and started an attack. And for two weeks they were mortaring, firing rounds at the Canadians and everything. And they, those guys held out for two weeks. Were they firing back? I believe so at that point.

Yeah. Yeah. so to you know to then say keep it up we're gonna we'll stop here or whatever and you know they actually made a difference there I believe right by preventing a slaughter or more of a slaughter right so but now say on the peacemaking side for us you know so you have different rules of engagement right so when you go someplace they tell you what's the rule to shoot back? So what, you know, if I shoot back, what am I legally allowed to do type deal, right?

Who tells you? The Canadian military or is it like an international? Now whether they partially get it from an international force, how the rules of engagement are totally made up, I'm not certain, whether it comes from the contingent commander. so the guy that's in command over the on the ground. But say in Somalia, our rules of engagement would like change almost daily sometimes, right? So it'd be like, okay, today you can shoot at anybody, even if they're, anybody that's stealing anything. If they're stealing a jerry can of water, you can shoot them, right?

that was the rule. Or then it became, well, only if they're stealing mission essential kit. Like, you know. When you say Jerry can of water,

do you mean from you guys? Like you're not a, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, like a, uh, you know,

a black 20 liter sure, Jerry can of water, yeah. From your like base or post or. Yeah. Yeah. So,

you know, just say simple things like, you know, a Jerry can of water. You could shoot them, right? And then quickly changed to, no,

you can't shoot them unless it's, um, Mission Essential Kit or to protect somebody. But every, they change so often that you wouldn't, you know, I don't think it was clear to anybody at what point. Where are we today? Like, what is the rule today somewhat, right?

How long were you in Somalia for? I think it was about a total of seven months, arrived. Oh, sorry. left on like boxing day from petawawa on a plane flew from there to Shannon Ireland had to lay over there from there to Djibouti and then from there into Mogadishu. And at the time that we're in Mogadishu, it was the busiest airport in the world. Really? There was something like a plane landing or taking off every 20 seconds or 40 seconds, right? It was a lot.

When you're driving around Somalia back then, what stuck out to you? Canadian boy coming from Alberta, you know, land, you're, I'm sure you're full of gusto, you're a little bit nervous. I'm sure there's a whole bunch of things to describe how you're feeling. But when you're looking out the window, what stuck out to you about Smolia? Well, I mean, it's like they really have, they had nothing there, right? You go into the villages. They're just like straw huts or whatever.

Very, very, you know, poor living. They would butcher the, because over there they, instead of cattle, they have camels. And that's what they eat. So their camels are raised as food. And they would butcher them right down on the river. and dump everything in the river. Right? It was just very,

kind of like really stepping back almost to the Wild West days. So on the door of my truck is this section on a patrol and they're all sitting back and it's like, really it kind of looks like tumbleweeds around them and all that because during the dry season there, it was like you would come across riverbed

after riverbed after riverbed after riverbed and they were all dry dry but then when the rainy season came like when when they finally got their rain then it was lakes almost everywhere so like some guys were on patrol they went to they went to go to bed they set up their cots you know the cots maybe sit like a foot and half off the ground and within like a couple hours the water was like a foot off the ground. So then they packed up all their kit, put it in the vehicles, and then went to sleep in the vehicle. In the morning, the water was like two and a half, three feet deep beside their vehicles. So then they all got in the vehicles and the commander gave them the

big, let's go. And as soon as it, you know, went off the hard ground that the vehicle was sitting on, and then they all just sunk. kind of and then they had to use explosives and blow holes in the ground and then winch them using like what's called a dead man's uh anchor so you're digging a hole putting a a post or whatever and then using that to slowly pull them out and they winched all their vehicles up onto a hill and they sat there for like i think uh close to two weeks they had to fly food into them things like that because they're in the middle of a lake. I'm going to do this before I forget.

So any guests that comes in here gets a silver one ounce coin from silver gold bowl. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that is yours, sir. I appreciate you coming in and sitting here and chatting. And I think it's Jamie again for doing it. Are you a silver guy? You know, well, actually I have a little silver milk or like a dog bone. Sure.

A friend of mine that collects silver. So he gave us one. that was like a dog bone. But yeah, that's something I want to, wanted to get into as well. Well, there you go. Well, thanks for, thanks for making it in. I want to take us back to Somalia.

So you go there, you're there for seven months. Yeah. That means once a week for seven months, you're taking this methoquent, correct? Yes. Is it immediately things start going weird, or is this something like, you know, month two, month three.

Now this is, walk me through the story. So prior to leaving, you had to start loading, you would take a loading dose or start loading up on methylquine. On mephloquin prior to going overseas so that when you're in it,

you have the sufficient buildup of protection. Sure. Right. So, you know, usually a month before you start taking it. people were having side effects before they went over like Clayton matchy so Clayton Matchy who was involved in the Somalia in the beating death of a Somali teenager by the name

of Shadena Rhone he before he even deployed he was choking his wife in her in in his sleep in his sleep yeah yeah so as he's sleeping he would woke up to choking his wife right and that and that as happened. I've heard that from a number of people telling me, I woke up and I was choking my wife, right? So those, so he was already having things like that happening. He avoided even being with his family prior to going a lot because he was having issues with the drug. And when he was in Smalley, he was having full-blown hallucinations. Right. Other people, had hallucination as well that I know of, right? You know, so the, really the side effects, everything started, I would say, right off the bat as soon as people started taking it. What did you all you guys think, right?

Like, I mean, you're taking it, your colleagues are taking it. But, you know, part of it is when, you know, when you have a problem, you'll be like, I think it's from this, right? So like say, oh, I have diarrhea. I think it's from eating ration packs for seven months, right? So for seven months, we ate rations, right?

We got one fresh meal a week. So like Mondays for supper, we would get a fresh meal. And would go to the kitchen and that'd be it, one meal, see you. And then a week of eating ration packs. So that's what I thought that was from. That's what you thought diarrhea was from. Yeah, yeah, I thought, oh, it's just from eating this packaged food for seven months, right? But then 30 years later, it's still going on, right?

People, like, you know, some of the people tell me, man, I haven't had a solid, you know, in 30 years, right? Because the drug kind of messes up your, it does damage to your brain stem. And then that in turn then trickles down to all the other issues. So you're saying methlequin has like, not only does it have psychological ramifications, but like other bodily effects as well. Yeah, yeah. So it comes with like 34 side effects, right? So you're all sitting there and you got the runs and you're thinking, oh man, it's Somalia.

It could be one of 30 things, but you're not cluing into the facts. that it's this drug. It could be that, no. And, you know, say at the same time, have insomnia, right? So like, you know, probably going to sleep at midnight, two in the morning, up by six, right? Almost nonstop. And then on that note, I thought, oh, it's because it's so hot out, right? So maybe not so much at the start.

I think start of the tour it was like maybe. 30 or 35 during the day but then later on it was like 55 degrees Celsius that was as high as the little mountain equipment co-op therm temperature thing went right but you know so then it's like by 9 in the morning it's probably 45 right so you know kind of equated the insomnia to that right But once again now, 30 years later, I'm meeting people that say aren't on a sleeping pill. They're not on anything for their sleep. And they're sleeping like three hours a night. That's it.

Right. I stayed at my friends. And at like 5 o'clock, he's like waking me up, seeing if I want to go for a, take the dogs for a walk. I'm like, we just went to sleep three hours ago. you know um but that's the state of some people right i heard um forgive me you had you had uh nicknames for different days of the week is that true yeah so they you know um mephlequin mondays wacky wednesdays things like that right uh that kind of coincided one of and then one of the the bigger things with the drug that everybody knew say was from the drug

was the nightmares, right? Some very horrific people would have horrific nightmares. Some people had kind of the opposite effect. You know, they had some, now I haven't heard of many, right? I've only heard of Dr. Nevin having his dreams were kind of on the opposite spectrum. But everybody else that I've ever talked to, it's all been nightmares. Like one guy would wake up every morning after taking the pill to a small to a smally standing over him with a knife going to stab him every time he woke up from taking the drug. So then he stopped taking the drug because he didn't want to, he didn't want to wake up to this smaller guy standing over him that wasn't there.

Right? I'm just trying to. So this is a. all going on. Things are happening and everybody's like, you know, some of it you're like 30 years later. It's still going on. You're going well, it's got this list of side effects.

But in the time that it's going on, you're sitting in Somalia for those seven months and strange things are going on. That's a strange. Oh yeah, it's an old Methylican Monday. We're going to have some nightmares tonight and, you know, and on. At any point, does anyone voice this

concern to hire ups and what did they say? You know, I know people complained and said, I don't want to take the drug, but we were told, no, you have to. There's no, you have no choice, right? So people were being forced to take it, even though they were having the pro-dromal effects, right? They were having side effects from the drug. So therefore, then, because they were being forced to take the drug, they were being involuntary. intoxicated from that drug, right? So that's when you first have,

so the drug company will say, when you start having pro-dromal symptoms, you're to cease taking the drug immediately. But instead, they kept pushing it. It's for your safety. And they kept making people take it. Yeah, yeah. And in, you know, in the long run,

it's a really horrible drug. Right. Well, what ends up happening? Sorry, you mentioned the child, the kid's name, the teenager's name. Yeah. What ends up happening? You know, I would, I was saying before we started, that's a long time ago. Kathy Wagonthal, MP here in Saskatchewan, came on and told me this story, and I was like, I've never heard this.

Now, in fairness, I was pretty young when this was going on, so that would be one of the main reasons, I assume. But in saying that, I'd never heard this. So to have somebody who is there taking the drug and having all these weird things going on with colleagues and on and on and on, just where does it culminate? Like where does it, like, where's the big crescendo, if you would? No, it just, they just, they continue to push the drug and continue to see issues happening, right? So, you know, just to say so for for Clayton Matchy, this Shadena Rhone was captured, was brought to the bunker, they were to watch him. In the bunker, he was hallucinating spiders were all over and was smacking, trying to smack the spiders.

And at the same time, was hitting the prisoner at different points, right? he had no when he when he talked to his wife i think the next day he had no recollection of anything that happened other than what he was charged with right so what was he charged with well with the the beating death of a small 18 and didn't understand kind of really what happened right he was and the other thing he was then kept in a bunker right in a bunker in a bunker in the compound that I was in. So we had about probably five different compounds. They kind of broke the camps up. They had one on the opposite side. So really, somebody could come through and would have a crossfire on each other, right? So, but he was kept in a bunker. I wasn't there at the time. I went back to

Canada on like two weeks holidays. And when I, while I was there, this went down. This went down. down so he was taken to the compound or taken to a bunker and then he got his laces out and he hung himself but yet it was two americans that found him right we had um like uh american troops in our in my compound that i was in i was with the headquarters kind of but if he was a prisoner from what i would understand i would assume that we would be guarding him, right? So then if he's being guarded by Canadians, why is it that two Americans found him? Right? Where was his Canadian guards? For one, right? And then was found by them.

So, you know, you kind of wonder what went on with that whole scenario. So the culmination is the drug which they would have known and all of you certainly knew was having psychological effects, maybe not on every single guy, but psychological effects on certain guys and it was apparent, correct? Yep. And ends with him killing a teenage prisoner.

And then on top of that, he then hangs himself. Yeah. And then, you know, because he ended up with damage then. And for the longest time, they continued to try him. so they tried to put him in front of a board and see if he was sane or not. He hung himself but he didn't die. No.

So he ended up with brain damage and stuff like that. So for the next, I would say a very long time. Every year they would try to have a, to see if he was sane or not, in order to see whether they were going to prosecute him. Right? So the only, the person that had the most time was a guy, Kyle Brown, who I think punched the prisoner once, right? He got five years, I believe, in a federal penitentiary fall, or correction, he did two years in a military jail, less a day.

Then he went to a federal prison for five years, right? So, and that was his part in it. another their officer commanding he also ended up doing time and losing his rank but you know um where does it sit today like you know like when you talk about this methoquin where where does it like has there any you know because i don't know maybe i'm looking at this wrong and maybe you can put me straight but when i look at it i go okay so they gave you a drug, drug had bad side effects. The bad side effects led to a man killing another man.

Yep. Who then tried to hang himself, who then they tried to try, who then they put in jail, and they put other people in jail. And yet the root of the whole problem actually wasn't the guy, is what they were giving him. So when you get to that, has any, like, where does that all sit, you know, 20 plus years later? Say, in my own... 30 plus years later. Yeah, in my own realization.

say in 31, 31 plus years since the drug, right? So, you know, so this went down in 92, 93 was our tour, you know, from basically from December to, I believe, sometime towards the end of June that we were in Somalia. in 1998 the fifth estate came out with an episode talking about mafliquin the lady who was in charge of health Canada resigned over the fact that they passed meflequin that they approved the drug the head of health Canada said this is insane they're passing the drug right There was 28 significant incidents that went on in Somalia, right? The beating death, there were shootings.

So the beating death is just one of the things that happened. One of, you know, whatever, one of 24, 28 significant incidents. Right. So, you know, there was an armored, some tank. that were going into a village and they had an accidental firing of their main gun, 76 millimeter cannon, fired off into the village by mistake, right? So that's, you know, all the list. So in 1998, I said, no, no, man, they should own it.

The people that did these things, it's them, right? That's what I was saying at the time. because I didn't think there was anything associated with the drug because I already had the checks in the box, right? It was the water or it was the ration packs. So after six years later, you still don't think it had anything to do with the drug? No, no. I was because. What did you think two weeks out?

You come back and a guy has beat, what did you think that happened? just, you know, took things too far, right? So you thought it was confrontation between two human beings, essentially, then? That's what I thought, but I didn't think it was, to be honest, I didn't think it was characteristic of the individual that did it. Like I knew Clayton Matchy, and that's not what I would have thought, right? That he would do that. That he was capable of something like that, right?

but at the time because it's all like you know what like all the bravado and the you know no no own up to it right so that was in 98 did the fifth estate i i went back to afghanistan i went to afghanistan in 2005 in july of oh five and i think i came back in march once again about seven months and when i went on that tour i said ah i'll take mefliquin again because I didn't have side effects because I didn't have nightmares, right? So because I didn't have nightmares, I thought I was fine. I told all my troops not to take it. A couple of them had already taken it from the very first tour in Somalia,

or in Afghanistan in 2001, 2002. But so they all heard all the stories from the airborne guys telling about these crazy nightmares, blah, blah. blah, right? So they never took it. I took it again. I remember I took, I was sick a couple times where I had to go to the UMS and was put on IV and everything. And I, now I wonder that had to been associated with the drug, right? Because when you, when I go back, so why, why was I like that? Because you know what? I trusted my government or I trusted my, the military to have my best interests at heart, right?

So I wouldn't think they would give me a drug that was toxic to me, right? Or that it, uh, that it was associated with as many, uh, problems as it was, right? But, but they did. The, given what's gone on in our country and a lot of countries, pretty much the entire world in the last several years and a foreign substance going into people's bodies and some of the things that have happened because of that. I just found it fascinating that back then when all this went down, I just assumed it was apparent to everybody in the military

and they just find what the heck is going on and we're outraged. I guess what shocks me is you're like, no, I thought, you know, you know, I didn't have any side effects and on and on and on. And I extrapolate that to now where if you got said shot and nothing happened, you're like, well, it couldn't have been that. Like, I mean, I got it, whatever. When, how many years after do you start to, like, does it dawn on you? Like, what dawns on you, Mike, that you're like, oh, crap?

So, well, I always kind of, I knew there was a problem with the drug, right, to say that all these things happened, right? But for whatever reason, and because you always think, so I thought, okay. I'm a bit messed up because I think it's PTSD. Sure. I think it's this. Sure. Yeah. Right.

So the thing about mephlequin is that it, it has, say, 18 of the 19 symptoms of PTSD. So the only one it doesn't have is the flashbacks, right? It's where you kind of re-see everything. And it has all the symptoms of a traumatic brain injury. So you can. So all the symptoms are there between PTSD and TBI. So you start thinking, oh, well, it's, you know, it's the PTSD. But then it's like, you know, I don't really remember seeing much for a traumatic event.

But, you know, so I never really, never really thought that it was mephlequin. other than I knew I took the drug as it, you know, the first ones to take it kind of. Sure. So if anybody has a problem, I should have a problem, though, right, eventually. But, and then in, in, well, actually in about 20, I think it was probably 2014, a guy named John Dow had messaged me and wanted me to get involved with mephalcone and was talking about. it. So I originally was involved with him and with Dr. Remington-Nevin when they were kind of starting, pushing stuff out.

A lot of emails were going back and forth. And at that time, I was, that's when my wheels had just fallen off. Like, probably. What, I guess we can, we can talk about that. What do you mean by wheels falling off? I get the, I get the analogy. I just, in your life, what was going on? That's, you know,

So at that point in time, I was sitting at home. I didn't have a service dog. I have one now, right? But so I had nothing. I, at one point, I was drinking to go to sleep or to be able to get to sleep. You know, it came, say, in 2014, you know, 2013, 2014, I was trying to get off of medical category, because in 2012 I said I had thoughts of suicide, blah, blah, blah, you know. But then I was trying to get off a category so I could get a full contract again with the military.

And I was out instructing, teaching on a shooting range in Labrador in Goose Bay. And, man, for that whole thing, I was like drinking. until two, three in the morning, four in the morning, trying to shut my mind off, get to sleep. Then when I left there, I'm like, no, that's it. No, I got to pull and punch. I got to get out of this. This is, you know, I'm not going to survive this.

So basically I went in, seen the doctor, said I can't do this anymore. I'm really struggling. That's when I started the whole antidepressant stuff. and then, you know, I'm now off work. I'm just sitting on the couch, staring out the window, not listening to the, not watching TV, not listening to the radio, just staring blankly out the window every day, right?

My spouse would go to work at 8 o'clock, and then I just sat there and stare at the window. And every time a car would go by, I would get up, watch the car go by, look across the street at the dog, at the neighbor's dog that was doing the same thing as I was doing. So every time a car would go by, the two of us were watching the vehicle go by and that was it. I never, I lived like that for probably like six months where I didn't do anything, right? couldn't function couldn't clean couldn't you know my spouse would come home clean the house as I just sat there and watched her clean the house right took part in nothing right so then I was like in like around December where I committed to say I would go to an equine therapy that was out

here in Alberta called can praxis so I was living in Newfoundland at the time and when I committed to that it was like um prior to that like veterans affairs would say you know give it a year or two and then things will kind of turn around for you and then start to get better and then that's when we'll pay you out kind of we'll give you the the money for PTSD kind of you know when you start doing better but then it's like I'm not doing better I'm getting worse you know like help right but so there sure i'm not getting better but then i finally said okay i'll go to this equine therapy and then it was like that was the first time that i say saw light at the end of the tunnel right because i committed to this i went uh uh i think the first one was in

was when was the first one held down by Red Deer I think and or by Bowden we went to one of the ranches out there so the first phase was working with the horses and

and kind of doing different skills like learning different coping skills say and then they had the spouse and the vet separate so they had the spouses together and then the vets together And then you'd come together and do some stuff.

But then when I finished that, it was like, you know, kind of gave me something to say, okay, you know what, twice a week I'm going to try to clean the house. So Tuesdays and Fridays, I'm going to, that's my goal. And I'll clean it to take some of the, you know, the work off of my spouse. So that kind of got me to the purpose. point where I'm able to kind of force myself to do stuff and be able to what was it what was it about horses I mean you got a service service dog now so obviously there's something with animals yeah um but I mean the even like they had one one drill it was something like uh you know

your spouse had to have the had the lead and had to you had to pass it over the short some kind of that you had to do. And in my head, I couldn't figure it out. And then I was getting amped up and I was starting to get angry. And it's like, why are you giving us an exercise that I can't solve? What are you trying to crush me?

And then my spouse said, let's do it like this. And then it was just like, it was like tying your shoes, kind of like it was that kind of simple. And why were you, there. Like, why was it that, uh, what got you so low to that? Just the inability to do anything, right then. Like to say to go out of the house, I, you know, I would hang out in the basement, you know, sit there and play on the PlayStation or something at that time. But was it like a cliff? Like just one, one day all of a sudden, it just everything

crushed on you? Or was this like a big, like a slow decline? I think it's like more of a slow decline than a, that I'm you know and was that military service or do you equate that to using mephloquin what do you equate that to um well i would equate it mostly to to mephlequin like a lot of uh frustration like the suicidal ideation right so that's one of the side effects so like say i attempted twice with my medications right so the first time i took uh nine 19, 2 milligram tablets of add-a-down. You tried killing yourself twice? Yeah.

Just on pills. So the first time I did it, you know, it was just had enough, right? I couldn't take no more. My spouse was going on. And so I popped him. And then became very tired and then passed out. And 8 in the morning, I woke up. She was gone to work.

I got my truck in my one-ton truck, went over, hooked up to a 40-foot fifth wheel, then drove to where they kind of had like a filling station and stuff for trailers. And then I went over there, washed my trailer off, came back, parked the trailer, parked the truck. The whole time that I did that, I couldn't walk a straight line. I was like staggering the whole time. My friend called me that afternoon on the phone, a friend of mine, Craig from Nova Scotia,

because we used to talk like every day. And not one word could he understand that I was saying, right? I was completely messed up. Ineborated essentially. And then so I wasn't technically helped that time. And then I think, you know, within a week, I was gone to the second phase of Can Praxis, the equine therapy. So that was my first time, and then the last time was January 2019.

I, uh, or no, it was probably 10 months before that. And I, I had a, I had popped, I used to get blister packs with all my pills. And then I would pop them all out. I wouldn't take them. so I stopped taking them in hopes that eventually then when I had the bad day I would go for it then so I wouldn't be prevented by the medication so I don't know maybe four or five weeks I stopped taking the pills and just put them into a baggie and then carried the baggie with me sometimes when I was having a hard time and showed it to one guy and said you know I can't take

can anymore see this like you know holding the baggie and uh then the one morning like a sunday morning my ex was laying into me and then i went over popped the last few pills out of a another blister pack that i had gotten sat down with a tall glass of water and in three gulps took took like you know i don't know like that many yeah like a hundred pills you're talking something like that of uh trazidone pristique um what was the other one but probably like three or four esopramazole maybe which was that's just nexium but whatever i just put them all together and took them and then you know yelled out i did it are you happy right followed by you know like 60 seconds later saying, can you take me to the hospital?

Right. Like a 10-minute ride to the hospital. Want to call my sisters and tell them what happened, but I don't want to worry them either. Right. So I didn't call them. And then they never did find out, right? Because my spouse never told them. And I eventually they found out.

But nowhere near that time. But, you know, and then you're. getting a ride to the hospital and then a lot of the pills i took were a lot of sleeping pills so then it's starting to kind of make me fade out and then the more kind of scaring me more and more right and then went to the emergency they they uh made me drink the uh like a charcoal drink or whatever that coach your stomach so it doesn't absorb the pills and uh did that they admitted me to the hospital and then I spent like 24 hours in the hospital. And then after seeing a psychiatrist in the morning,

then they let me out. When you, you know, once again, I look at it and I go, is it the sum of the total? So is it everything? Or is it one specific thing in the mephloquine where you've taken it multiple times throughout your life and you've seen the psychological impacts it's made on a lot of different soldiers.

Regardless, it seems like it's had an impact on your life and others quite significantly. You mentioned in the middle of the wheels falling off, a man reaching out and talking to you about methylquin, and up until that point you hadn't really put much stock in it, what is it about what he says to you at that time that cements some things into place? that they were going to look into it

and it's like you know I think deep down I knew that there was issues with the drug right so I knew there was issues because people had nightmares but I didn't have nightmares so I didn't really think right that I had the issues again

but he was saying to me you know everybody a lot of people know you you'll really help if we could have you on board to help, you know, others. So, really, so that, you know, that was like 2018. Well, sorry, correction, like 2014 was when we first engaged. And then in the fall of 2018, there was a, there was a lawsuit that was going for like 20 years.

that never went anywhere so I had added my name to that I believe in the fall of 2018 and then in January of 2019 um they called to like have us uh to ask me if if well I joined the lawsuit say in January and then in March they actually asked me if I would want to be one at like one of the advocates for the lawsuit and that they had had me narrowed down to one of 10 people they were looking or one of 10 people that that they were looking at starting the lawsuit with. So and then, you know, January of 2019, uh, my spouse went to her family or parents birthday, uh, one of their birthdays. while I was at home, dressed in my clothes, laying under the blankets, not wanting to go anywhere.

And then she left and went to the thing. I continued to kind of degrade, and then I walked across the street to the neighbors and started to come unglued, crying, can you take me to the hospital? I can't take it anymore. Her husband came to the door, then I'm telling them, then I'm starting to break up, and then he drove me to the hospital in Cornerbrook, Newfoundland. He had like one of those half doors, right, where you got to open the main door and then opened the back door.

So Spark was in the back. You know, I couldn't even figure out how to open the door, right? And it just made me... Just came more glued, right? and he sat there bawling and couldn't open the door, nothing, and then he came over, opened the door, so I could go in, asked if I needed help. I said, no, though, that's fine, I'll go, right?

Sat there crying away in the waiting room, they moved me to another place, then they had their people watching me, right, to make sure I'm not going to do something, right, to myself or whatever. You know, the whole time my service talked just kind of, was it like in a ball at my feet kind of like didn't know what to do you know because I was pretty messed up kind of right and then um my spouse got there and we went up they took me to the fifth floor or whatever right and then it's like um as soon as i walked on the floor there's only

like two people like in this whole you know big wing you know a couple like three three coaches two people right no no no no crowd they took me to the room and then i'm just like no no no can't i can't i can't right they're like nobody you checked yourself in but i'm like i'm going to check myself out and um they kind of fought my checking out but i checked out then and that was in january and then like I said in March they asked me to be one of the advocates so I I said yeah in in April they were going to have a town hall meeting in Kingston so I so I wanted to go to that so on the and then I'm on a Sunday I started at like I don't know eight in the morning trying to do a post on Facebook, right, to kind of like, to all the people that I thought took Meplequin, right?

That's where I learned eventually you can only tag. I think it was like a hundred ninety-nine people or something. So then I spent like, after it quit on me a few times. I had, and then I realized the numbers. I worked on it the whole day trying to do it. At a certain point, my spouse is, is yelling at me and saying, shit to me and I was in the hallway

and I was bent over and I screamed at the top of my lungs leave me alone I can't take anymore leave me alone right and when I finished saying that she continued

to to say shit to me so then I'm like okay I can't be here anymore right I'm not safe So I Whatever She went to bed

Slept in another room Her parents had been there I'd left that morning We had just spent like six weeks in St. John's Because her father had gotten a diagnosis of cancer And Spark and I Hung out at the hospital with them For like 16 hours a day

Right When I'm already not in a good place Like I said in January I tried to check in right but um so anyways she goes to bed then at like four in the morning i decide that's it i'm leaving so i started to pack a suitcase she got up said what are you doing i'm like i got to go to the i want to go to the town hall meeting in kingston and find out what's wrong with me and um she goes no no you don't you don't need to go the lawsuit's going to go on with you still you don't you don't

you don't need to go and I said no but I want to find out what's wrong with me right and she's like no no you don't need to go I said well okay well then let's fly out there for it and she's like no not flying okay then fine in my head I'm like I'm leaving when you go to work so she went back to bed eight o'clock she left for work five minutes to pack that suitcase suitcase suitcase bag of dog food throw it in the truck i'm out of the house at 8 o 5 driving to porter bass to take the ferry to go to kingston to the town hall meeting and find out what's wrong with me this is this is april 8th of 2019 and um so you normally you're supposed to have a for a reservation 48 hours in advance of taking the ferry and that you have to have a reservation and I just drove and I'm like

either I'm getting on the ferry if they don't take me there I'm driving back to deer lake and I'm getting on a plane and I'm flying out so drove to the ferry and thank God they they let me go they let me on the on the boat I'm on the boat and my friend calls me to say when the town hall meeting is and he said it's like on the 28th of April I'm like, oh my God, I just left like almost three weeks before it. And I didn't, you know, I didn't think because at that time I wouldn't drive anywhere by myself for more than 15 minutes. So anything over 15 minutes, I was always with somebody. So anyways, and also to say, I left home at 805 and at, you know, at 9.5.

and at 9.30, my spouse called me to say, what do you do it? And I said, I'm on the way to the ferry to go to Kingston to find out what's wrong with me. And she hung up. And I never spoke to her for another year. So you get on this ferry, you go. Do you eventually make it to the meeting? Yeah, so I, you know, I'm in Ontario now, two and a half weeks, before the whole thing.

So, you know, I went and seen a friend in Milton, a guy that I served with Arnie Paris, saw him for a bit. And even at that point, I wasn't, say, set on leaving my ex. I was more set on trying to find out what's wrong with me, right? But then as I'm kind of away, friends are starting to say, you know, I think you're better off. I think you're doing better, right?

But anyways, waiting around. Go to the town hall meeting. I spoke up at the town hall meeting. Some other people spoke as well. There was a lady that was still serving who got vertigo for six months. And for six months, she couldn't get out of bed. Like, you're in the military,

and you can't get out of the bed for six months because of vertigo, right? because the drug causes vestibular disturbances or vertigo or dizziness and that type of deal. So, you know, went to that. Did it give you answers? Well, it told me there's a lot of people that think there's, you know, there's a lot of issues coming from the drug, right? It was a full, really it was a, I'd say it was a packed house, right?

they did a number of other town hall meetings they did one in Edmonton I believe I'm trying to think if they I thought they might have done one here in Saskatchewan but I'm not 100% on that one but so I seen that and then it was you know met with the lawyers

so that was at the end of April and then at the end of April so I had to go see the lawyers and I had, prior to leaving Newfoundland, I had like, the military had given me a copy of my medical docs, which were both, you know, that thick. And before leaving, I saw a friend named Sandy and him and I went and photocopied like whatever it was, you know.

A thousand docs. documents or more or whatever. So I had kind of like two copies. And then I drove and went to the lawyers in Toronto. They're in the Eaton Center. They're on like the 32nd floor. They're on the 32nd floor. They're on the top.

And, you know, like Team Canada is like on the 25th floor or something. Right. They're, you know, large law firm, Howie Saxon, Henry. who specialize in brain injuries, things like this. And then they teamed up with another law firm called Waddell Phillips, which I'm trying to remember her first name, but Mrs. Waddell is like one of the top 20 lawyers in Canada. So she's on there.

John Phillips was also from that law firm. He was on the residential school settlement. So he's on the lawsuit because that company or that Waddell Phillips specializes in taking the government to court. So they've represented thousands of RCNP numbers. So where does it sit today? It's supposed to be going to the point where they're going to start to actively work the case or whatever. So they're trying to figure out how they want to go forward. there's like 3,500, I think, people on the lawsuit now.

And my... It's pretty insane to think that 30-plus years ago, and I mean onwards, because it's not like they just stopped giving the drug out. Yeah, yeah. That, you know, when you think of how long does justice take, how long does it take to hold government account? Yeah, yeah. You're over three decades later.

Yeah. And still at this point, you're like, well, it's starting to get close to active. And you're like, starting to get close to active? Holy crap. And I mean, every other country kind of in the world has kind of said, that drug is bad news. Right? Like Germany has outright banned the drug, right? Ireland, England, all the soldiers have sued the governments, right?

So in England, they actually lost, but then the government's, said, yeah, yeah, we do know there's an issue, and they ended up awarding them money. In the U.S., Dr. Remington-Niven gets, you know, soldiers 100% disability claim for quinism, which is the result of mephlequin poisoning. So everywhere else has said bad drug, right? Canada continued to give it to our military until 2017, right?

So the entire time that we were at war in Afghanistan, methylquin was available. Where's methylcline out of who makes it? So it was one of the drug companies was larium.

So that was one of the brand names. Is it a Canadian company or is an American company or do you know? Well, it originally started with a company called Hoffman LaRoche out of Switzerland. Them, the U.S. Department of Defense and the World Health Organization got involved to try to come up with Meplequin. So it was the three of them pushing it out. Meplequin was, you know, 10 cents a pill.

You take it once a week, right? it's going to save the world, right? They issued all kinds, you know, millions of doses out there saying, well, no. People losing their minds everywhere. Yeah, yeah. We gave millions of doses. We've only had a few complaints. That's right.

Safe and effective. Right? Because they punched out that much of the drug so then they could say, well, you know, millions of doses. Where's all the complaints, right? There was a guy that wrote a book called The Answer to the Riddle is me. right he was uh now i i i can't remember his name offhand but anyways i listened to the book jericho we got jericho sitting here on on the internet can you look up the answer to the riddle is me

me i know you're uh you're the second time in this realm where i actually have a producer sitting in studio we're trying something new out here so i get to i get to say that for the first time and he can spit off some answers maybe maybe not who knows maybe it won't work oh yeah it should should come out. Yeah. And who's the author? David McLean. David McLean?

Yeah, that sounds great, I believe. But he... Thank you. He took the drug, right? He was going to India to do a research project, right? So he was there. And then, like, he ended up he was in a train station in india they get a lot of a lot of foreigners go there and do

drugs right to india so they see this kind of thing happen where people are all messed up or whatever right but anyways this police officer takes the time to try to help him realizing that he doesn't think he's actually messed up from doing some illicit drug or something that he's actually having issues. The guy doesn't know who he is. He doesn't know what he's doing, where he is, right? He walked out of his apartment. The door opened, computer on, TV on,

walked out, ended up at a train station. Then, you know, through trying to find out what happened to him, he finds out where his apartment is, eventually finds pieces to the puzzle, that then says this is me right he took mephloquin he had a break didn't have a clue he was when he was trying to work on things coming back his parents were you know concerned wanting them to come back right away so you know wrote the book complete break and he was on Joe Rogan, I think, back in January of this year,

and was talking about, man, you should see all the stuff that's associated with this drug. You should, like, homicides that have been linked to the drug, right? But once again, it's safe and effective. It was safe and effective, right? And then in 2015 or 2014, a bunch of people got together, a guy named John Dow, who was one of the guys that started with the lawsuit, the guy that

approached me to work with them. But him and another group, I think, a British soldier, an Australian, they ended up forming an international mephlequin alliance. And when they formed that mephlequin alliance, I think within a year, the drug became a black box, which means it's a drug. of last resort. So once that happened, then things started to

kind of start to move in the trying to get answers, I guess, say with Matzlecorn. And like I said, all these countries were suing their government. Our government says, you know, nothing wrong.

I don't know what you're talking about, right? So even to say to go back to 2019, when things started, so in In 1998, I watched the Fifth Estate, I said, no, own up to it. You did it. I did it. Whatever, right?

It's the individual. In 2019, I'm then on W5, did a special called Guinea Pig Soldiers, and it was myself, a guy named Richard Schumann and General Retired Romeo DeLare that were on W5. saying this drug is insane, right? It comes with all these problems. And, uh, I'm sorry, no,

you finish your thought. No, just to say, you know, and Kathy Wagonthal, she became involved as an advocate, or as, you know, as a member of parliament,

trying to help with, uh, with this, um, you know, met with, uh, other people talked about it.

Um, you know, more people. I guess it's wild to me You know like how long things can be drawn out Especially with the government When you look at the course of your life We talk about it being a slow decline

To where you get to the point where you just can't take it anymore Do you put that on taking this drug Or do you put that on a multitude of things I would put I would say I would put like say 90% of my issues come from methodically. Say for PTSD, so the only reason I say that I believe I have PTSD is that I kind of had a

flashback. I was riding my bike in Cape Breton. We're riding along and on the side of the road was a rolled up blue carpet. And I looked at the carpet and I said, oh, dead body. And then I kind of turned and continued driving. Then I'm like, oh, in Somalia, there was an accident. They just rolled the bodies up in a blue carpet, blue blanket, whatever it was, whatever they had, rolled the body up, threw it in the thing. So that was, I seen it, associated, and then, of course,

that doesn't make sense, right? But. Makes sense if you're in Somalia, I guess. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, so I've seen a few things. You know, I was there when, or I went after the suicide bombing in Kandahar province, where the diplomat Glenbury was killed. So we rolled out and provided security and then packed up and slowly convoyed, you know,

the, brought the wounded. Then we brought the body of Glenbury. Then we brought, you know, the wrecked vehicle. And then we went back because they had to blow up all the explosives because when the vehicle, when the suicide bomber blew himself up with a vehicle, it turned like, you know, M72 rocket launchers into like twisted toothpicks, right? All these explosives are in the vehicle that is now is unsafe, and they had to blow in place.

So, you know, so yeah, I got, I got, I got, I got some PTSD, right? When I stepped out of my vehicle right beside, you know, say like where my dog is laying right now, is where the body of the suicide bomber was from that incident, right? So he was missing an arm. His head was like somebody pulled the skull out. And it was just the, just the skin. So it was like, almost like a, like a mask. Like a Jason mask.

If you laid a Jason mask on the, on the floor, how it would just be like a flat face. And that's how it was when I stepped out of the vehicle and went. Yeah, that's something you don't ever forget. And carried on. Yeah. And then, you know, when I, before I went to Afghanistan, I looked at a bunch of, we would look at, you know, pictures of suicide bombers looking at. different things to see what it might be like, right?

And I remember looking at them and going, no, no, that's not real. That's doctored or something, right? There's no way that's real, right, until I was standing looking at that guy saying, that's messed up, right? I, you know. Is there anything else you, like, I don't, by no stretch, am I pushing you out of this room? any I don't want that to be how this comes across but is there anything else that we've we haven't talked about Mike that you're like I should mention this before I let you out of here um maybe just

to say on to go back to Somali a bit right is that there was all kinds of like I already mentioned 24 28 significant incidents right um people were were were hallucinating, like I already said, right? One guy was, but he told me that he was like raking the sand with a, with a board, sorry for that, but raking and saying, I got to get all the rocks out of the sand. I got to get all the rocks out of the sand. He's like, I'm, I was like sitting there like a crazy person trying to get the rocks up. Prior to going, when I, when I, when I, I arrived in the airborne regiment in 1990, and we went and did our first live fire exercise. We had finished shooting. We had cleared our weapon. We're waiting for my warrant officer to come

clear my weapon. So as I'm standing there, it's like, hey, warrant, you're going to come check our weapons. And he's like, are they clear? It's like, well, of course they're clear warrant. Then he's like, well, then F and clear them. So then it cleared the weapons. It was like, oh, yeah, They're treating us like men, right? You know, back in battalion, people have to check you. Make sure you're clear. Then, okay, yeah, you're clear, right? But we cleared ourselves, right?

That was the level of the professionalism, right? It was the, in an infantry battalion, we wouldn't be issued a compass. It would only be issued to the section commander or his two IC. but in the airborne regiment every single man had a compass everybody every man was an emperor right everybody we all chipped in we all did stuff together if you were working i would help you until you were done or we were all done right it was a was always a team effort um and and once again to say the level of professionalism was through the roof right So that when we went to Somalia and started taking the drug, that professionalism tanked, in my opinion.

My own section commander was a pathfinder. Pathfinders are the people that jump in before the main body. They set up a drop zone. They set it all up. We come in, jump in. then they go on and they go on to the next objectives or they're leading us to an objective. So these guys are the cream of the crop. You don't get much better than a pathfinder, right?

That was my section commander, but yet we're there and he's got issues, him and his two I see. right so my section commander we go on a we went on a mission to to go we took some aid workers with us and it was to go repair a water well um i don't know maybe 300 kilometers from our camp bella duane we went and linked up with an armored crew in in a place called madaban madaban and then from there then we punched out to go with the aid workers to try to repair this well down this road smallies used to cut off the cut off like the bushes the tops of a bush and then put it upside down to mark where like a mine was so we drove over a few of those like steered over the middle of it right and then right and then there's like a burned out car

the tracks then go around it. Then there's another burned out car and tracks go around that one. And then we come and there's like an anti-tank mine that's, you know, like that big around. So like that thick. Bigger than a dinner plate. Like we're talking.

Oh, like, yeah, yeah. Like, you know, it's like four inches tall. Thick like a pillow and then like twice a size of a dinner plate. So that's right in the middle of the road. and we just drive, steer it between our tires and keep going. If that would have been, if that would have happened in Samar or in Afghanistan, you know, everybody that drove over that would have been charged for doing that. But in the airborne, it's like you do the mission, right?

It doesn't matter. So drove over, it went on. we get to the place where we're going to spend the night and my section commander doesn't is not going to do century the aid workers are like but you're so what you're pointing out if I may

is that in this time in Somalia it's like the things that were expected all went to the it's like they all just dropped out and you didn't have any of it yeah the professional Just disappeared. Disappeared, in my opinion. And it was like, in my particular circumstance, it was a bit of a...

It just seems to me the longer you talk about, you know, your story, it's like, you know, in the oil field, you're like, it's safety to the, like the max, right? You're always supposed to be identifying red flags. That's a red flag. Oh, that's a red flag. Right? It's a big giant safety culture. As annoying as it is.

Safety flag, safety flag, safety flag, safety flag, safety flag, safety flag, safety flag, safety flag. safety flag so much that you know you're just like you know your massage and your temples trying to be like oh my god not another thing right i already wear a hard hat i already got this on i already got that on how much more stuff can i and then when it comes to something like mephloquin it's like well there's a red flag there's a red flag and there's a red flag and there's a red flag and they're just like a push you yeah no no no no no there's nothing wrong oh there's nothing wrong oh a guy beat a guy to death no no no that's not a big deal oh it's just keep on and on and on and the only thing sitting on this side, Mike, that makes it make sense,

because if I had, you know, I didn't have the, the 20-21 area of my life and then some, I don't know if I would make sense to me. I'm like, how the hell does that make sense? And then I just go, just a couple days ago. And then a nice old lady show up on the front doorstep. She was getting something off my wife. And she looks at me and she goes, you're Sean Newman. And I go, I'm Sean Newman.

She shakes my hand. We get talking. And she's fax injured. And I'm like, hmm. I bet you most people don't. believe you, right? Or I bet you you don't get to talk about it that much. Yeah. Because, you know, the government still says, oh, there's nothing wrong. Safe and effective. Safe and effective. Meanwhile, everywhere I walk, you know, I run into these people that have like serious consequences,

like serious consequences. And that's the ones you know about, how many you don't know about. And when I hear these two stories, how they map over each other is a bit insane, honestly. And what makes it more insane is in the best possible, I don't mean this, I just mean that you took it and you didn't think it was the drug. And I'm like, I wonder how many people right now have taken it and don't think it's the drug. And I wonder how far into the future before everybody who's taking it starts to see what's going on right now and prior. Yeah. Right? Like I find that fascinating about your story. I really appreciate you coming in. And, and, you, and sharing it because I'm like,

there's a lot to digest here. Yeah. You know, and I assume I'm late to the game, as always, and I don't, I didn't know all of the, the, the, the Methlequin story.

Yeah. But then again, I also think, like, there's people in my age group that, you know, back in the early 90s, we're running around the rink and not paying attention

to any of this. Yeah, yeah. And so you hear some of it, and you're just like, there's so much the overlaps to what we're currently going through. The only word I can think of is insane just because,

You know, like, you know, a regular human being, Cizan goes, well, I mean, like, look, like, that, no. And what about that? And what about that? Well, we're just going to, no, we're just going to, we're just going to slide it over here. And that's what's been happening. We're going to ignore it. That's what's been happening for three decades. Don't look over there.

Right. And say when, when things first started to come out, right? Because, oh, pardon, like the Somali, like say the Somali inquiry started, got, soldiers were then having to get lawyers and trying to defend themselves. And, you know, and the airborne doesn't really take kindly to outsiders. So we don't talk to them. Sure. Or we're not going to so much give the story to them, right?

Because we look after each other. So, but that's what was going on. And then it's like, you know, nobody weren't. So everybody's being looked at for what they do. did, right, for what you as a person did. Sure. But in reality, it was the drug. And if they had looked at all the things going on,

they would have to be insane not to realize that it was the drug that was involved in all of it. Right? Yeah, it wouldn't take much to just start drawing a big circle around it. What did all these guys got in common? And the thing that I didn't understand, was if we were taking a drug trial, then who was doing the, who's the control group to say, you know, Sean, you're not acting,

you're kind of, you don't seem to be right today. You don't got, yeah, yeah, yeah, you, did you get the drug? No, and you don't have the runs and you don't have this, and you don't have that, oh. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

I mean, if, if. Do you think then, like, as far as, as the Canadian military goes, is there the nefarious actors in there? Oh, I believe so. Completely. Yeah. So the whole time that say they're developing this drug mephloquin,

right, which is in, so if it was untested, we're, you know, we're doing the drug trial on it, right, on a once a week pill that we don't know what the side effects are or that we're working. And they never told you that? Never said it was a trial? No. No. Not when

it happened and we were we were supposed to have signed like a waiver to say you know if anything should happen to me i'm okay right yeah yeah did you ever sign that no so we we found out that it was a drug trial in 2019 more or less right that's when i found out oh right that was a drug trial thank you right but the nice thing lasted until 2017 yeah they well i mean they continue to give I mean, they continue to give it. I realize it wasn't a joke. And, you know, it's just, it, it's, um, I keep fighting for the best in humanity and I hear that story and I go, man, alive.

Yeah. You know, like, human beings will do horrific things to their own. Yep. And when, you know, and obviously during COVID, we heard all kinds of, uh, brutal stories, right? we had troops in Petawawa being held out in a tent and basically being kept on guard in a tent because they won't submit to it right and then you know enough that the military police are now getting phone calls and saying these people are being held against their will in the in the tent and then the military police having to go shut it down right um It's funny when you, like say last year, I went and I did this rolling barrage, motorcycle ride across Canada for PTSD, right? So, you know, even though some of the legions that I'm going to on this thing

were legions that told me I couldn't come in, right? Because I didn't have the pass, right? So even though the mandate was ending tomorrow, they wouldn't let me in today, right? right so I'm like no big deal see you later I dropped off some stuff for this veterans fair and then left right don't care but anyways so I do this rolling barrage travel on it we're in Regina and I'm talking to an RCMP officer and I'm telling them how you know I was forced to take a drug the drug led all to all these side effects blah blah blah blah kind of kind of Lay the whole story of Mephylick went out to him in a, you know, short 10 minutes or something.

And he goes, oh, like what just happened in the last two years. And I said, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, you're, you're, that's why I say it overlaps. So, so much. Yeah, so the whole story is like being told again with a different, uh, with a, on a world scale. On a world scale. Yeah.

Instead of the Canadian, instead of the military, because you mentioned that a bunch of countries gave it out. So instead of it being what sounded like maybe the five eyes of military, now you're going, well, let's just give this drug to everybody. Yeah. And give it to our military, right? So you don't even know, you know, instead of saying we'll give half to our guys, that way, either way, we should be at 50% strength if something.

Yeah, but. Right. But instead, they give it to everybody, right? You've given it to everybody. you don't know how it's going to affect you, you could, within three years, you could have no army left, right? If everything that's going on with the vaccine is going on, then if it's all negative side effects,

you've just destroyed the military. You've taken away the security blanket that we sleep under, say, right? You've just destroyed it. Same with your police forces. Why? Right? As a... Well, we just came out in the Amminton Police Service earlier this week.

I can't remember. Was it Natasha Gonic, folks? She's a guest to the podcast. I think it's her work. But regardless, it just came out the Amminton Police Service. Had memos going out saying, don't get them all the shot on the same day because there was a 24-hour period where people were getting sick. And yet it was just,

There was no side effects. I mean, side effect is a broad term, right? Yeah, yeah. Certainly there's extreme side effects, which include death, and then there goes on a whole list, right? Yeah.

And the Amitin Police Service had a memo that literally said don't get everybody done on the same day because we'll lose. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's almost, I find it funny. Just because how about how insane it is,

there's nothing else you can do but laugh at it, you know? Yeah. You know, like, where did law, and common sense go, right? Where did your tactical mentality go that you just go, oh, we'll take an experimental drug, we'll all take it,

and then we'll find out, right? Do we want to have some people not take it maybe to be on the safe side? No, no, everybody, right? They push so hard that it's, the same with, say, say they pushed out methlequin, continue to push it out when there was side effects, right? So for since, you know, 1992, and probably before that, they continued to push the drug out when there was all kinds of warnings, red, red flags going up, right?

So, and then you, then they just did it again. Yeah. Well, I appreciate you coming in, Mike, and doing this. I appreciate, uh, Well, I don't know. There's just, when I sit across from the military guys and hearing your guys' stories and how, you know, there's just different things that went on in your life. Oh, my godly, crap. I don't know where to even begin to put that.

And we can only cover so much in, you know, in a few hours. But I appreciate you coming in and making the trip here and doing this, especially in person. It's compared to doing it on a screen, I'm sure you will agree. There's something better when there's people in the room to hear it. And I appreciate you coming in and being so open and talking about some of the things in your life. And then the story of methylquin, I think, is, you know, when I hear it from a government official, no offense, Kathy Wagintel, you're like, kind of, holy crap. When you hear it from a military man who took it and has had the journey of your life, you're like, I feel like it has a little more punch to it.

Yeah, yeah. And I just appreciate you coming in, sitting here and doing this. Yeah, you're very welcome. and to say like I completely, you know, the importance of being face to face, right? For me, so I do a podcast on Meplequin. The doctor, Dr. Remington Nevin, I drove to Michigan to a hotel down the road from him, did an interview with him there. Interviewed a couple people up in Prince Albert, right, at the River Valley Resilience Retreat. So most of the people I go to because it's better in person.

Yeah, well, 100% is. And for me, so I drive the country. So since April of 2019, I have now driven, I think it's close to 600. What's your podcast? So it's called the Root Awakening Tour podcast. So Rood as in RU-U-D? RU-D. Rude, okay.

Rood Awakening Tour at our Rood Awakening Tour podcast. It's on YouTube or whatever. Sure. How many interviews you got? So I've only, I think we've released three or four, four now. And then there's probably another dozen that are slowly coming on. Going to come out. Like I just did an interview in Kingston, Ontario, like a week and a half ago, say.

Interviewed a guy there. And then eventually, so it's in association with a recording studio out of Vancouver, called the Grassy Null Studio. Okay. So then that's who we're doing it with. And then, you know, trying to, then I'll go anywhere, do an interview anywhere. So if anyone has a methylquin story,

they could text me and I could pass along. Yeah, you pass along. Or if they want to hear more about this, then they just head over to the Rood Awakening Tour podcast. Yeah. So like the first episode is with Dr. Remington Nevin. It's three hours and 40 minutes or something like. like that but it really gives you the whole you know how the how mephlequin kind of started

the drugs that were in it I'm gonna be I'm gonna have to go give it a listen essentially because you know like I think that'd be well really really interesting right like I mean it's just how does this continue to play out in society we're just seeing a different version of it now and if you and if you watch that one with Dr. Remington Nevin you're just gonna go what right once again uh they just did it again right this what they did with with mephlequin is what they just did in the last few years right they put all these resources to to quash any uh backlash right that's what they were doing with with mefliquin they had all these players that were

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, it doesn't do that. No, no, no, no, right? Government expert, no, no, no, right? Fast forward, you know, and then you go, no, right? 2003, four wives were murdered in Fort Bragg, North Carolina, by special forces troops, right? Killed their wives and killed themselves. Two of the four killed themselves. a third one took his life in custody

and from what I think the fourth one took his life as well. So they had four wives killed in six weeks and then the base said what just happened, right? And then they looked and everybody was saying look at Mephalquin, look at Meplequin,

right? So that was in 2003, I think by 2005 they stopped giving it to their special forces. And really if you watch Dr. Remington never, Evans episode, you'll come, you know, you watch all the evidence kind of presented before you, and then you'll kind of come up with the same kind of conclusion that this was their desired

effect. This is what they wanted. So they pushed it for a purpose, that the drug was there for a purpose. So back in World War II, they started out with a drug called Atabrine. Adibrin was turning the soldier's skin like bright yellow. Right. It was changing their pigmentation, everything. But the drug, all the neurological problems with that drug continued. So they stopped giving Atabrin. So that was a World War II drug to fight in the Pacific. then they come out with chloroquine

even though at the time that adibrine they said chloroquine is too toxic it's too poisonous to give to people then they turned around and say no no it wasn't uh it wasn't poisonous and actually it enjoyed a safe you know 20 years or 40 years that the drug was used right

but with chloroquine it had the same neurological side effects that they were seeing from adibrine. Then they come out with methylquin, same side effects, neurological side effects as chloroquine and as adibrine. Because the key component was quinine.

And quinine is, comes from the tree in India. And, uh, and that's what they were using because the drug causes insomnia, causes, uh, aggression causes... So why do you say it's their desired effect? So,

say even for some, right? The, you and I say if we went overseas and now we're told to kill somebody, right? Your moral compass is going to say, no, no. He's not evil. I shouldn't kill him. Killing is bad, right?

So the military has to train people to say he's bad, you need to kill him, right? So, but they found, like, say, since the Civil War, that the amount of people willing to kill somebody has been going down, say, within the military's, right? So a guy wrote a book called On Killing, Colonel Grossman. He wrote a book saying all the numbers keep going down so that by the time the Vietnam War happened, most of the soldiers were firing over the heads of the enemy. Right. But all along, they've been giving this adabrine in World War II

and then trying to say, the soldiers don't want to take it. We've got to get them to take it. We've got to tell them. Your theory then would be give them something that, whether dulls their senses or what have you, so that they'll kill. Yes. And you think they're tweaking that as you go along? So that's, that is kind of, if you look at all the evidence, right, from the drug, right?

that they continue to put the same kind of ingredients in each new drug that is associated with all these side effects, with the paranoia, with, you know, aggression. It's like you're, you know,

you're kind of like, maybe I shouldn't do that, you know, that's gone. That's just like, no. So you think, so in one sense,

as time goes on, the aggression, or the ability or the want to kill is dropping. And they're trying to find something to push that back up. So they can just give soldiers, here it is, here it is. And then they go out and their conscience is gone. Yeah. But you're still fully intact so they can actually go do things.

Yeah. And, you know, so say when we deployed to Somalia at that time, the Canadian Airborne Regiment, we deployed German Falts, Schmeager's German paratroopers deployed that was the first time they they were outside of Germany since World War II Italian Folgori or Italian paratroopers were there Tenth Mountain Delta Force the list goes on and it's all special forces there and they got guys taking a drug causing all kinds of crazy side effects right

paranoia, aggression. We're in a country with no government. So who's going to complain? Right? Who's going to say anything? So you think, or then, sorry, the evidence would point then. They picked a country to try this on. That would be my, uh...

Where nobody's going to say boo about it anyways. Yeah, yeah, I mean... And I mean, and you look at it 30 years later, and you think we still can't get a resolution done in Canada, specifically Canada. Yeah. And a resolution is more like, I mean, more of a court case to put it on record,

that this is a bad idea. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, there's all kinds of, you know, well, life is full of conspiracy theories now, right? But. Well, we just lived one owed. So, I mean. Right, and when you continue to see, well, no,

that's what they said, and then that's what they did. That's what they said. That's what they did, right? So you look at Somalia and the things that were going on, I think, would indicate almost like, personally myself, I think that whole Somalia thing was an experiment with the drug, with the troops, in a place where nobody's going to, nobody matters, right? Nobody's going to complain. who you know what independent journalist or something is going to get a story out when they're suppressing everything and you can only you know if they bring you into country maybe and it and it's not safe for you there anyway so you know nothing's gonna nothing's going to come of it it's uh watch the first episode with dr nevin yeah well that's what i'm gonna do i'm gonna i'm gonna go i'm gonna go watch uh the first episode uh the first episode and then

And you've just raised, you know, I go, well, after that, I might be reaching out to get Dr. Nevinan. Like, I just might go down. Oh, no, I would highly recommend getting him on. Very easy listen, right? He, you know, voice, everything. It's, you know, three and a half hours went by like nothing, right? And it's nothing but knowledge. He was still in the military doing testing.

trying to find out about mephlequin stuff, right? So the whole reason that he got interested in the drug is because he deployed to Afghanistan with the 82nd Airborne Division, right? And in January, with snow still on the ground, he's told, start giving the troops their mephlequin. And he's like, but there's still snow in the ground.

there's really there's no need for it because mosquitoes aren't going to come for a while right they're like no no we just want to be on the safe side the drug is safe let's just give him the drug right and he's like you know he didn't agree with it and then they started they had a they had a death and then he was told to investigate into it and that led him then down the mefliquing road right And, you know, to now, you know, we went down all the, all the, all the, all the, all the, all the, all the, all the, all the, all the, all the, uh, all the, uh, the, uh, gopher holes or all the, uh, sure, what do you call it? The rabbit holes, right? Yeah.

We went down all the rabbit holes and all the evidence would point at what we're saying, right, or that the drug was meant to amp people up, right? in Somalia easy I think it made us all a lot more aggressive and yeah well I think you know

hopefully I'll put this nice little bow on the end here because you've led me on a journey today which I you know as much as I understood what was coming didn't fully understand and I think you know there's there's a lot to digest in what we've talked about here today and how it overlaps

with everything going on currently, but just the journey of what you've been on and the fact here in Canada, of all places again, that comes up that we, you know, just has red flags. That's the best way I could point it out is it just seems like this journey points out

all the red flags that are evident to the common person, and yet they persist and carry on that gives me a little uneasy feeling about the future and where this possibly goes. But I think it's a warning sign for everyone just going, oh yeah, it's all over. It's all done.

I mean, this is 30 years later, and they gave it out until 2017. That is a wild, wild, wild thing to think about. Either way, Mike, I appreciate you coming in and doing this, and I would push everybody to go listen to your Root Awakening Tour podcast and Dr. Nevin. I think that would be very, very enlightening. And appreciate you just coming in and sharing once again across. for me. Yeah, you're very welcome. And just to say the Mephyloquin rally is on the 20th and 21st of this month

in, uh, in, uh, in, Victoria this year. Okay. So where can people find details for that? Uh, I'm trying to think, uh, well, on my page, I'll end up, uh, uh, advertising it or whatever, putting it out there. Okay. So, uh, on the Rood Awakening tour, uh, I'm on Facebook, I'm on Facebook and Instagram and kind of acting. but not totally. Okay, cool. Well, there you go. Thanks again, Mike, for hopping in and doing this.

Very nice meeting you. And safe travels out to Victoria, among other places. Hopefully a few people reach out and jump into your content and see, you know, some of the darker side yet again of some of the things that have gone on in Canada, currently and back, you know, over the last couple decades. Yeah, for sure. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah.