Shaun Newman Podcast - #750 - Kevin Shipp

Episode Date: November 25, 2024

Kevin Shipp, once an officer in the CIA, has become well-known as a whistleblower, especially for unveiling what he believes to be illegal actions and cover-ups within the intelligence sector. Throughout his 17-year tenure with the agency, he occupied various senior roles such as a protective agent for the Director of Central Intelligence, a counterintelligence investigator, and he engaged in counterterrorism efforts, protective operations, and polygraph work. Cornerstone Forum ‘25 https://www.showpass.com/cornerstone25/ Clothing Link: ⁠⁠⁠https://snp-8.creator-spring.com/listing/the-mashup-collection⁠⁠ Text Shaun 587-217-8500 Substack:https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcast E-transfer here: [e-mail] Silver Gold Bull Links: Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/ Email: [e-mail] Text Grahame: [phone]

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He spent 17 years with the CIA turned whistleblower and now author. He wrote Twilight of the Seattle government, how transparency will kill the deep state. I'm talking about Kevin Schip. So buckle up, here we go. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Today I'm joined by Kevin Shipp. So, sir, thank you for hopping on.

Thanks for having me. Now, I'm going to be honest, I did a little bit of digging, but I don't know a whole heck of a lot about you. I was hoping that you'd tell us a little bit about yourself before we get into some of the things you've been working on. Surely, I was doing an interview yesterday, and ironically, there's no Wikipedia page on me. They have apparently scrubbed that, which is no surprise, because I think there's intelligence influence on Wikipedia. times. Anyway, yeah, just a quick background. I was a protective agent on the detail of CI Director William Casey during their Iran-Contra scandal and saw a lot of what was happening there. And also, when Director Casey had his seizure and was in Georgetown University Hospital for a tumor in the

center of his brain, I was one of the agents in the hot seat outside of his room to prevent anyone other than his wife and family from getting in there. And that's the time when Bob Woodward in his book, Vail, the Secret Wars of the CIA, claims he got in and had this discussion with Casey and Casey admitted to his role in Iran-Contra. And that is a complete fabrication. That never happened. As a matter of fact, Woodward tried to get in,

but the agents on duty caught him and gracefully showed him to exit, and he never came back. Plus the fact that William Casey, the tumor, had destroyed part of his brain that control speech and he couldn't even talk. We have a whole chapter in twilight of the shadow government on Bob Woodward being essentially a chief mockingbird having intelligence connections going back decades to being a top secret briefer of Alexander Haig when he was resisting Richard Nixon. So Bob Woodward is the poster child of mockingbird. We have an entire chapter on him, which is pretty eye-opening and all documented. So following that, I was appointed.

As the assistant team leader on in the CI wants me makes me call it an anti-terrorism assault team. We were essentially in our particular division, the same as a tier one counter assault team. And we were sent into a country. There was a terrorist organization that had gunned down entire police departments. It killed several U.S. Marines and was targeting people in the U.S. embassy. and we were sent over there to stop them and stop their operations. And so we were trained in all the counter-assault team procedures there.

I was assigned to the counter-espionage group. They created a new unit called the Special Investigations Unit. And there was a mole in the CIA. Someone was giving Russia highly classified CIA intelligence, which, of course, results in the execution of any action. assets we had over there. And we were tasked with finding that mole globally within the United States and without in some of the stations overseas. So that was a very, very intensive effort. And it turns out that we did find the mole, but it wasn't a CI officer. It was Robert Hansen,

who was a supervisory special agent in charge of counterintelligence for the FBI field office. And the FBI field office had all of our counterintelligence investigations. People don't realize how grave that damage was because Hansen turned over all the stuff we were working on on counterintelligence cases looking for the mole on the CIA. It was really bloody in terms of what we lost. And of course, that was withheld from the press. Then I was assigned as a security officer doing investigations into our computer connections with allied governments overseas. and in that did an investigation on U.S. embassies and found initially what looked like the vulnerability where any foreign national foreign intelligence service agent, anyone could go into the open visa

section, sit down at one of the little cubicles with the unclassified open computer and search in and uncover the identities of our case officers and covert agents in that country. And the more I dug and the more investigation I did, the more I found out it, it looked like that was exactly the case. And I'll keep this briefly. But this is where it all started for me in terms of seeing how the CIA operates without Congress knowing it and some of the criminal things that they do and cover up. And a lot of that is in twilight of the shadow government, which, by the way, I decided to write without the CIA's approval so they couldn't stop the book from coming out. That's a whole not a story. Anyway, so I presented my report to the division involved at the CIA, the division chief,

sent it through internal CIA courier, gave him a week to look at it, called them and said, hey, did you get my report? What do you think? And the response was, what report? I said, well, the one I sent you through internal courier. We didn't receive any report. I said, okay. I'll send it to you again.

So I sent it to them through internal CIA courier again, gave him a week, called them and asked them, what did you think? The response again was, what report? And I thought, okay, are we dealing with complete morons here? Or is this intentional? So I said, I'll tell you what, I will hand carry this over to you and give it to you. So I went over to CIA headquarters, up to the office. I call it cover protection division, CPD. That's not its real name. But in the book, that's what I call it. And walked up to the executive assistance desk, handed the investigation report to her over her desk and said, ma'am, please give this to the division chief. I think, you know, perhaps this could be very serious. And she said, okay, thank you. I'm just

kind of bristle a little bit, which I wrote off to typical agency arrogance. And I left and went back, gave him another week to finally look at it and called her, the person I'd given the report to it. I said, ma'am, did you have a chance to look at the report, you and the division chief? And her response was, what report? And I said, man, you know, the one I handed you personally right over your desk, that report. She goes, I don't remember any report. No, no, we haven't looked at it. I don't even remember receiving it.

We hung up the phone and I thought, what on earth is going on here? Then I got a call from that division chief, very ominous call saying, Kevin Chip, I am ordering you to drop this investigation and drop it now. And I said, well, sir, potentially, you know, there's a serious vulnerability here that could cost the lives potentially if some of our agents. His response was, I'm ordering you to drop it now or it's your career. Click. I got the phone. And so I'm sitting there thinking, what on earth is going on here?

Well, it turns out that my report was leaked through a person who also thought it had merit to the Department of State Senior Inspector General's office. and I got a call from them, and I'll call him Jim. Jim said, hey, Kevin, we saw your report. We think you may have something here. Would you come over and brief us at the IG on what you found? So I said, absolutely, sir. So I went over there, went up to the state senior IG, briefed them on what I had found, and they said, well, we're concerned about this.

I'll tell you what, let us look at this, and we'll give you a call. So I went back to my off-site CIA office, and, you know, Geez, about three days later, I got a phone call from Jim. He says, Kevin, he goes, we examined a report thoroughly, and we think it's very possible that this could be correct. We're going to do a global investigation and go into embassies around the world and see if we can go into the visa section, into the computer system, and identify your case officers and covert personnel.

And then he said this. He said, do not tell the CIA what we are doing. Do not tell them what you are doing. keep this completely quiet secret until we get back and and then we'll let you know what our results are. I said, yes, sir, absolutely. This particular Jim was a former really well-liked high-level CIA officer, senior officer, who had received the intelligence medal for valor. I mean, he was the real thing from the old days and a good ethical man,

which is difficult to find in the CIA. Anyway, so he was, he was really serious about this. So they say, well, you'll probably hear from me in about, about three months. Sure enough, three months later, the secure phone line rings. I pick it up. It's Jimmy. He says, hey, Kevin, we're back into the states. We've completed our investigation. We went to multiple embassies. And he said, it's not only bad, it's worse than even you thought. And I said, okay. And he goes, listen, we're having a. meeting at Maine State this Friday. Would you please come? And I said, absolutely, sir, I'll be there. So I showed up on Friday, went up to the top floors of State Department to the IG office.

They buzzed me in, said hello, took me back to a long conference room with a long walnut table, sat me on one side of the conference room table at one end, Jim on the other, the two IG guys, and there was an empty seat at the end of this long walnut table. And they said, just hold on for a few minutes, Kevin, the CIA will be joining us. I thought, oh my gosh, I didn't even know the CIA knew about this yet. Well, they didn't, apparently, this investigation, that is. Sure enough, the buzzer buzzes, and they let in in walks, the GS-15 division chief of the office that had destroyed my memos threatened me, and they also removed my reports from the CIA internal server, just erased it. And so,

He comes in and they said, have a seat at the end of the conference room table. He sat down, kind of puzzled as to why he was there. The senior IG official stood up and said, consider this an official rebuke by the Department of State Inspector General to you, the CIA, for putting the lives of your cover officers at risk for over 10 years and then covering it up. So he just froze and the blood drained out of his face. And they said, and also be advised that we are putting together a report. to publish this report to the entire intelligence community, and they're going to know what the CI has done. He muttered and stumbled a little bit, still kind of in shock. Then the IG guy said, you can go now. So he gets up flustered without looking at me, walks out the door and out of the office,

and he's gone. I stayed back. We did a little small talk, and they thanked me and congratulated me for the work on my report. I remember going back to CI headquarters, walking. through the main hallway and figuratively speaking it, I felt like I had a laser dot on my back. I had just participated in a secret investigation without the CI's knowledge of its cover-up of this ability to access these computer systems. And I knew it was just a matter of time before they came after me. And sure enough, they did, which eventually resulted on me coming out public and revealing a lot of what the CI has done. So that was the impetus of me coming out. I don't really like the term whistleblower.

You know, it just, I don't know. It just, it just doesn't sound right to me. Whistleblowers, the rural ones, I consider in the past, like Victor Marchetti, these people are heroes. I mean, they're sacrificing their lives, careers, everything to do this. So whistleblowers, you know, it's a good term. I just personally don't like it. Anyway, so I'm billed out there as a CIA whistleblower, which I am, but, you know, I did this.

How long did you work for the CIA? 17 years with the CIA and then three years with Department of State Anti-Terrorism program. And I don't know if you're allowed to share. I assume you're allowed to share. What did you go uncover in the report that was so damning that the CIA is like, we can't have this come out? Well, it was a fact that let's say you're a foreign intelligence service or a terrorist. You walk into any embassy and the visa section is open to everyone. You go in to apply for a visa to the United States.

And in that section, there are computers that you can sit down and fill out your visa application to the embassy for the United States. It's an unclassified open computer terminal just sitting there. And what we found was anybody could sit down, go into the computer system, start searching the data in there easily, which is sitting there in the open. and they could identify our covert personnel in that country very easily. And the CIA not only covered it up, but apparently maintained it. And I gave them every opportunity to fix that problem. The initial thing was what? Is this just negligence?

And they're trying to cover their rear end? Well, I gave them plenty of opportunities to fix this. I wasn't looking for any recognition. I just wanted them to know this was there. Well, they refused to fix it. And then, of course, threatened me and it's strong. all my documents. And, you know, the question is, why on earth did they do that? My attorney, Clint, as we as I later filed personal injury injury shoot against the CI, because my family after this,

they placed us on a secret base in the Midwest, and they put us in a house that they knew was full of, full of deadly toxins. The family before was very sick and they moved them out. So they put us in there on purpose and we all became deathly ill. And that's when I started my battle to expose what the CIA was doing. So the only conclusion I could reach and others so far is they must have wanted this thing there. If there was a chief of station that didn't play by the rules or if they wanted plausible deniability, which they are all about for the death of one of their agents, they could claim that somebody went in through the computer system and identified this case officer and then killed them. It wasn't the CIA's fault when perhaps the CIA itself did it because the CIA did

have it's called uh if i remember correctly z r rifle was an internal cia program to assassinate agents that they thought were either doubles or or were not playing by the rules that's that was uh very active back in the days of jfk anyway so it's the only conclusion we could reach yeah forgive me i'm just my brain is trying to grapple i know it's hard to get i'm like it's like they want it's like you know forgive me i just go to a larger example that maybe makes sense it's It's, you know, Russia and the United States don't want to go to war on each other. So they do proxy wars, right? They have these little skirmishes where they're completely there.

But to the world, they're plausible deniability as well. We're just, we're just influencing or we're just helping. And so the CIA wanted, you know, what I hear from you and correct me if I'm wrong, is that the CIA wanted a way in which they could basically assassinate their own agents or whoever within their agency and give them. themselves plausible deniability of like, well, listen, we didn't, we didn't, we didn't do anything, right? It was just a computer was left open and they found away and oops, that will clean that up, except they, I mean, that's a pretty, that's a pretty big thing to find. Yeah. And that's the only conclusion me, my, my attorney Clint, especially both of us, could reach logically, was that they

wanted that, that there, apparently for that purpose. Now, remember the agency, was founded on plausible deniability. It was a doctrine that was used to create the agency where the agency can do whatever it wanted, whatever covert operations it wanted to do as long as there was plausible deniability for the White House. So that's in the agency's charter. That's what they're all about is doing these many times criminal covert operations as long as the White House can deny it, knew anything about it. It's possible that that is what this was. I do not know for sure. It's remained a mystery since then after state state's official rebukin that report went out to the IC. I heard nothing from anyone. I didn't hear anything from CIA management. I didn't hear

anything back from the Department of State IG. I don't know it was going back and forth between the CI director and the Secretary of State. I had no idea what happened after that in terms of all the blowback. But, yeah. When, sorry, like, I'm No, no, I'm just curious. You know, a guy with your background, Donald Trump gets shot in the head from a building where they deemed it was too steep. And yet anyone in their dog knows that is just garbage. Right. You know, one of the things I heard was, you know, they wouldn't do it themselves because then they don't have the plausible deniability piece.

What do you think of like that entire thing? Like when you saw come out and all the information start to flood out and everything else, where does your brain go on that? Well, there's no question about the fact that there were some really serious negligence on the part of the Secret Service, possibly, in my opinion, by the fact that they put Donald Trump at the very bottom of the stack for protective resources. I mean, it was abysmal what the CIA, excuse me, what the Secret Service did. Now, but you also have to remember that the CIA is all about cutouts and plausible deniability. They still have, they have cutouts in the United States that are spying on Americans, but it's a problem. private company so the CIA and the White House can deny it's happy. Forgive me cutouts?

What do you mean cut out? A cutout is the CI will use or create a private company or a private contractor in the case of some of these lethal operations. They will use a private contractor under that contractor's company name. So if something happens, the CI can say, no, we didn't do it. You know, X, Y, Z did it. We have no knowledge of that whatsoever. And that's the doctrine of plausible deniability, which fact.

the CIA the CI operates by today. So the shooter, you know, in the last chapter of Twilight of the Shadow Government after I talk about CIA reforms, at the last minute, we put in an analysis of the Butler, Pennsylvania assassination attempt, and we go through, of course, the massive negligence of the Secret Service, but we list in there several questions that have not been answered yet, one of which was this young 20-year-old kid had, uh, uh, three overseas encrypted accounts, and they're still trying to figure out it's under investigation, as they usually say, what in the world he was doing connected to these overseas accounts and they were encrypted and what exactly exchanges are going on there. And there's some other peculiar things

that still haven't been answered. So I didn't reach the conclusion that this was a CIA hit, because I'm not going to do that unless I have some really good evidence. But there is no question about the fact that the CIA prefers to use third parties to do its bidding. And I have to tell you now with the transition team and the new Trump administration, and I think they probably know this themselves, they need to really watch their backs and really be careful, especially with their reforms of the CIA, because they are now in the center of the hurricane. And the CIA is such a monstrous self-protecting bureaucracy. It will do anything to preserve it. itself and it'll do that now. So when Ratcliffe goes in as the new DCI, which I think is a good

pick, he's going to have to have a good team around him because he's going to be really at risk. Yeah, I wonder how much can even get done, you know, when you talk about the size of the CIA bureaucracy. Like, you know, like that is a beast among beasts. Yep. And you talk, they deal in intelligence, in manipulation. And at times, I don't know how much, but certainly death, right? And so you go, you're not messing with like somebody who's going to play by the rules. Their rules are different than any other government agency under the sun.

Well put. That's exactly right. They're a monstrous global juggernaut that functions outside of the U.S. It manipulates Congress, it manipulates the judiciary through FISA and the state secret privilege, and it even manipulates the White House. And sometimes the lower levels of the CIA itself, in the case of Mike Pompeo, they manipulate their own director. It is a monster without question. And in my opinion, one of the reforms I'm recommending is the National Security Act of 1947 authorized the CIA to engage in covert operations as long as there was plausible denial. What needs to be done is a National Security Act of 2025, which removes the covert operational authority from the CIA and turns it over to the Defense Intelligence Agency under the DOD, which they're doing anyway, to the DIA and cuts this monster's head off from the top.

The CI has been responsible for the death of some 7 million people in the coups that they have instituted and some of the wars and the death squads and on and on and on through these covenants. operations that they've engaged in, all under the auspices of covert operations, doing things they were never intended to do. They went rogue from the second year. Even Harry Truman came out and wrote an op-ed stating that he regretted forming the CIA. And it was, in his words, casting a shadow on our freedom and democracy. So he knew way back then. And it is simply just gotten worse and bigger. It's global now. It's connected to all kinds of banks laundering money. the private, and we talk about Ted Shackley, he factors into the story who had a private CIA going, meaning the CIA was conducting these lethal operations without Congress's knowledge, and they were funding them using money from running drugs. And the funny part here is, Sean, is when this was all said and done, the next thing I heard about this vulnerability that we had uncovered, I get a phone call from CI headquarters saying, Kevin, you're ordered to a meeting at headquarters regarding, this report that you did. I said, okay, sure, I'll be there. I go up to this floor and

CI headquarters. I walk into this big office. It's empty. There's nothing on the walls. There's just this big metal, those old metal government desks sitting there. Standing in front of the desk was Ted Shackley. Now, Ted Shackley was supposed to have left the CIA years and years. I didn't even know he was still alive. Ted Shackley's standing there and he goes, Kevin, he goes, I just want you to know, we're going to fix this problem. We're going to fix it. And he's kind of yelling. And I'm like, I'm glad to hear that. And he goes, I'm, I'm, Kevin, this is going to be fixed. And I said, good, good, sir.

And he goes, that will be all. And I walked out and I'm like, dang, that was Ted Shackley. I didn't know he was still alive. Well, we do a whole chapter on Ted Shackley and his bloody lethal operations that he was involved in, for example, Operation Phoenix, where they assassinated 40,000 innocent Vietnamese civilians, including families because they were suspected of being communists. And we go into his bloody and lethal past conducting covert operations using drug money to run these things. And just on and on and on and on it goes.

And all the way up until now, where John Brennan, another dastardly CIA director, made secret trips into Ukraine in 2014 and helped sponsor the 2014 Ukrainian coup against their democratically elected government. And as the CIA did in the Bay of Pigs, when it did this behind JFK's back, attacking Russian ships to provoke them and sending guns to Cuba, back then they put us on the verge of nuclear war. The CIA did because they do not care about human life. They care about perpetuation of the CIA and winning. So we are facing nuclear annihilation back then. Well, look at us now. After the CIA helped stage this coup in Ukraine, we're facing nuclear annihilation again. And do you think the CIA cares about that?

No, they don't. They just care about the CIA winning and this and perpetuating. What is the CIA winning mean? CIA winning means that their operations eliminate their enemy. That is the only goal that they have. And they will do anything. And I mean anything to accomplish that goal. They have, for example, when they did a coup in Indonesia and overthrew President Sukarno,

who was for the first time interacting with JFK and they were going to have a meeting for an alliance, the CIA sent a coup in there over through Sukarno and in Indonesia, 500,000 to a million people were killed in that coup started by the CIA. That's the number of deaths, the CIA and its covert operations have caused. And now we look at Ukraine, the number of massive deaths on both sides that have resulted in the coup that put essentially in Russia's mind. And I'm not defending Vladimir Putin. He's an evil man and he's a murder. But the CIA once again, provoked Russia into a war. And now we just gave him ballistic.

Biden just authorized ballistic missiles to be sent into Russia. Now Russia is threatening nuclear war against the United States. So because of the CIA, here we are back again facing possible nuclear annihilation, unless something is done. They need a 25th Amendment that guy and get him out of the White House because he is, and the CIA threw him because he's brain dead. But the CIA threw him as a puppet, which he has been from. them for since he's been in office. They are attacking Russia through Biden and provoking Russia

up to the brink of war with the United States. Can we go back? You said, okay, CIA wants to win, okay? All right. That makes sense. I'm a hockey player by trade. So I get it. You want to win the game? So then the next logical thing is they want to beat their enemy. Okay. And I go, okay, but who the heck is their enemy? How do they define that? Like, how does the, they're going to use whatever tool they can to win the game, okay, if you're on the side of the CIA, that sounds pretty good. And you want to defeat the enemy, okay, that makes sense. But who the heck is the enemy? Yeah.

Right now it feels like it's humanity. If you're like, if we go to nuclear war, whoop-de-do, we're winning. It's like winning what? Great question. The enemy for the CIA, they've been connected to Wall Street since their inception. Alan Dulles, the devil himself, was a Wall Street attorney with Sullivan and Cromwell. The CIA's connection to Wall Street has been there since its inception. So the CIA, for example, to use a very important example, if there's oil that the American government wants or minerals, very valuable minerals, and the CIO will stage a coup to take that country over so they can have the minerals. Case in point, Iran. In Iran, the democratically elected government in Iran, they had a lot of oil that the CIA was, or the American government was getting for free. And the Iranian government decided, whoa, whoa, wait,

wait, wait, we, this is our oil. We should be making money off our own oil. So they nationalized, privatized their oil and no longer gave it free to the United States. So the CI went in there, staged Deku and Iran over through the government, installed their puppet, the Shah of Iran, who was basically, for lack of a better term, a complete moron, living lavishly, that people got fed up with him, overthrew him. And now we have the Khomeini government, the chief sponsor of terrorism in the world. Because the C. I want an Iran's oil. So they do this for oil, largely for oil and natural minerals and resources that will benefit the United States also will benefit the military industrial complex in terms

of arms sales and continuous war. You know, I was expecting your answer to be, well, they fight communism or something. Instead, it's like, no, we're greedy. We want to have everything that the United States could possibly ever want. That's what the CIA's mandate is. So that literally gives, it can literally change from day to day from country to country is what you're basically saying. I see here in Canada and I go, with the CIA look at, you know, I'm like, I'm so naive to think that the CIA wouldn't be staring at Canada going, well, they got some things we could use. You know, we could, we could certainly shift some things in their public sphere and to the wants of the United States of America. Would I be right in assuming that that's probably true as well then?

Yes, with the only exception of the fact that the RCMP intelligence units directly connected to the CIA. So they're essentially working together in terms of their intelligence mission. And so that's why the CIA basically, I think, leaves Canada alone. They would rather do it in a country where they can once again get plausible denial. So that's why they're not messing with Canada. Is that, when you say they work directly with the RCMP, my mind goes to the five eyes. Am I right in assuming that? Yeah.

That the CIA works directly with Britain, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, correct? Yeah. Yeah, they're brothers and sisters and what the CIA will do many times and has done when they can't spy on a U.S. citizen because it's criminal and illegal. They'll get Canada or one of the five eyes to do it. They'll get the British, GCHQ, for example, to intercept those communications and then give them through their channels to the CIA. So they're spying on America.

What the heck? is a average citizen supposed to do with that. It's like, it's like, you know, forgive me, we came through COVID. And Canada was insane. Okay, Kevin, it was insane. Oh, yeah, yeah. And you think, oh, we just turn out a couple politicians in life will go back to normal. But then I sit and listen to way too many intelligence people.

And I'm like, man, this problem isn't solved by one politician. Like this animal, this beast is global, as you pointed out. and you go, you know, you got five countries working together. So okay, yeah, we make it illegal in Canada. What they're going to do, you know, this reminds me of Annie Jacobson's book, a project paperclip. She's awesome. Where, where they bring all of the Nazi scientists.

Oh, public finds out about that. They ship them out of country, but they keep them employed. But now they have plausible deniability as you keep repeating. Right. Like, we just, we don't, I start to even grasp how big of an issue this is. And then you go, well, how do, how's the average citizen supposed to do anything to this? Because even if they do, the CIA or our intelligence agencies have like every trick under the sun to mess with it or to mess with you. Well, yeah.

And of course, they tried to erase me. Even the CIA, IG, which is supposed to support employees. When I left to fight them externally because they were bugging, following me and tapping my phones inside, when I left, their attacks continued and they destroyed my credit union hardship loans. to provide for my family when I left. They raised the, or they blocked the funds to my Thrift Savings Plan so we didn't have money to survive on, which is a felony, by the way, and just went after us full force. In the book, I make it clear because I've seen how they do it. And I lay out how the CIA does this, how they do these criminal operations and get away

with it. And we'll see, you know, how much input, I mean, there's some indication, how much input I'll be able to give into the reform of the CIA because I've got. some some solid stuff which I put out there for free on YouTube of course but the the in my 12-point solution to this in reforming the CI the first of which is getting rid of their covert operational authority the final line the final analysis is this and the only way is for all the American people especially and and really people of the world in Canada for example there needs to be and if you look behind me you see a picture of a

of an avalanche. There needs to be an avalanche of public demand for reform of the CIA and the end of its monstrous global power by millions of the American people. And that's beginning. And they've got to demand their congressmen and senators, many of whom are in the CIA's pocket. For example, 20 congressmen and senators own stock

in Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, the CIA's private surveillance arms. Even the congressional oversight committees, Intelligence Oversight Committees are compromised and they do not investigate the CIA. So it's got it's up to us the people in shows like this to educate and inform people and get them motivated to demand an end of the dark part of the CIA. Now, I recommend that we retain the parts of the CIA that Truman originally intended. And that would be the director of intelligence where they analyze intelligence data that comes in the satellite intelligence analysis and programs, the director of administration that runs everything. The parts of the CIA that are not involved in these dark, lethal operations, you can keep those.

That's what Truman intended, but get rid of this unbridled covert operational authority completely from the CIA to stop this. And that's what I'm asking for people to demand by the millions. And that's why Twilight of the Shadow Government was written. And I wrote it with my courageous co-author Kent Hecken-Lively. And by Courageous, I am not understating that, wrote this. this book with me. I sent it to the CIA required by my secrecy agreement for them to review, redact, and approve what could be released. And I let them have it for three months knowing, like my last book from the company of Shadows, they were going to redact unclassified information

regarding their criminal activity, especially the poisoning of my family, knowing they were going to do that with Twilight of the Shattered government. I made the decision through a lot of thought, a lot of prayer, realizing it had to be done, and I authorized Skyhorse to publish this book without the CIA's approval. Skyhorse is protected. Kent is protected. I am not because essentially I violated my secrecy agreement, which demands that I can't publish anything without their approval and redactions. Talk about a system stacked against you. And that's what's been keeping them in power this whole time, is that very system. And, you know, whatever. happens to me. They're going to take the royalties from my book. The book's a bestseller.

It's we had to, they had to restock it on Amazon last week. I may not get a dime in royalties from this, but that's not why I wrote it. I hope Kent and Skyhorse do, and I think they will. But I took this risk because I'd seen how they do it. And I'd seen exactly the procedures that they use. And I want the American people to know this and how criminal and illegal they are. That's my mission. So my wife. Blesser Heart is set up a go-fund me to try to counter them taking my royalties. We'll see how that works. But anyway, where can, where can, you've mentioned it, but as you bring the book up,

it's wrote the interview, if people want to buy it, just Amazon's the best way to find it. Yeah, Amazon, they were sold out. I understand that they have been replenished now. So it's back on Amazon. Yes. And if people, people search Twilight of the Shadow Government, how transparency will kill the deep state and mockingbird. media by Kevin Shep, correct?

Yeah, they can just, actually, they can search Twilight of the shadow government, and that'll get them there. If people wanted to follow it, are you on, are you on social media, X, anything like that? I'm on X and I post things about this and about the CIA and especially if we come across operations that they're conducting, they're illegal.

I post them on X at Kevin underscore SHIP, S-H-I-P-P. And I do, I do that regularly. What we'll do is we'll toss a couple links in the show notes, that way people can just scroll down and see it. You know, part of your, your title of your book with Mockingbird Media, uh, one of the things that I find interesting sitting here as, you know, I started this out, Kevin, you wouldn't know, obviously the first time we've met started this almost six years ago. It's hard to believe that it's coming up on six years. Um, but you know, I have no ties to one of

the things that I like is being independent is I got real no ties to anything, right? So like I, I see, you know, Mockingbird Media, Project Mockingbird, how the intelligence agencies have kind of manipulated journalists. And I go, oh, we better talk about that quick. Because, I mean, like, that to me, I find very interesting. Because the CIA has got to be looking at all these podcasters, all these people doing shows that have no connections to any overlord boss

of the Fox News Network, the CNN or here in Canada, the CBC. and how do you control this decentralized world of media? And maybe where we could start was Project Mockingbird and how they did it to begin with. Yeah. And thank God, programs like yours are the way around Mockingbird. And I, golly, I've been doing two to three interviews a day on programs like yours because it's the way to get around the CI's control over the mainstream media, which they have.

I'll give you a classic example. There's many. I was on Fox News as a CIA whistleblower, which is a surprise in the first place. But when the fake whistleblower against Trump came out, the CI analyst, quote unquote, I knew from the inside it was a fake and he was put put up by John Brennan to try to discredit Trump. So Fox News had me on for that. So I'm sitting in the Fox News green room and there's a big screen TV and Sean Hannity's, it's a show before you, is on the big screen while you're waiting to go back to the makeup section and get ready.

And so I'm sitting there about to go on as a CIA whistleblower. And I'm looking at Hannity on the screen. And I see a lapel pin that I recognize. I went up there and looked closely. And he's wearing a CIA lapel pin on his lapel. And I think it's still on his Wikipedia page. He was wearing it for years until I put the word out there that, talk about Mockingbird.

You're advertising the CIA on every program you do with a CIA pin. That's nuts. That's one of many examples. Others are, of course, the Washington Post, they helped initiate Operation Mockingbird when they were paying over 400 journalists to publish CIA stories. The Washington Post is still a mockingbird. And when I first came out and blew the whistle, I went to the Washington Post with my story. The Washington Post immediately went to the CIA and reported my contact and what I had told them. Then the Washington Post reporter who they were using, the poor guy was at his wits in.

For 30 days, the Washington Post editor had this reporter. call me and try to get me to give them classified information so I could be arrested. And that went on for 30 days and at the end of 30 days. He kept saying, my editor was making me do this. And I said, I said, all right, I contacted the New York Times, Charlie Savage. If you don't publish this within 24 hours, Charlie, New York Times is going to publish it. He frantically, he raced around and said, well, we not yet, not yet. I said, okay. So I gave the story to the New York Times and they published it about especially my family's poisoning. But guess who the editor of the Washington Post was that was at the time on the chief of the editorial board when this reporter was doing that?

It was Bob Woodward, Mr. Mockingbird himself, who has mentioned early, has connections of U.S. intelligence going back years. So that's a huge example. And then you've got the CIA coerced the Associated Press, UPI, the Washington Post, and all four social media companies. The CIA coerced them to signing an agreement that they would censor certain information on their programs and on the internet that the CIA deemed as unacceptable. And they signed that and that's why we saw the censorship in many of these mainstream media organizations that was happening. That's how high up it goes. Also, the relationship still stands with these editors of these especially news programs

and some papers. The editors know that if you think back, when's the last time any news program did a serious investigation of the CIA and I include Fox News in that not you know I don't I like Fox News but I understand how it operates once the last time any news program in the United States has done a critical piece or investigation on the CIA well if I'd listen if I'd listen to this interview I probably wouldn't either because if you if you did you might just end up in a poison house or worse right I mean like what you're you're they don't get to operate in the same realm as me and you like you You would know that firsthand.

That actually really terrifies me. He's like, well, I'm not going to criticize the CIA, right? Because if you do that. And that's how they get away with it, which is something that I repeat over and over and over. They rule by fear. That's how they control the American people is by fear. And these editors of these major news programs, they know that if they criticize the CIA, the first thing the CIA will do is cut off breaking stories, breaking intelligence

storage from them and break that contact completely. That's the first thing. Then they know what comes after that probably is a disinformation campaign against them at the various highest levels. And the journalists, bless their hearts, know that if they do an investigation, it's their career destruction. You remember Gary Webb? I don't know if you know the story of Gary Webb, who wrote the book, Dark Alliance about the CI running drugs. Thank you. I'm like, I recognize that name and the book title, yes. Classic story. He, he, uncons. covered the CIA running drugs, which was true. And the CI brought him into a meeting and threatened him to drop it. He refused. He went on, wrote the book. They got to his editor, threatened his

editor, who then fired him from his position and put him down like reporting on traffic or something like that. They ruined his pension. They ruined his finances, his health insurance. He ruined his marriage. His wife divorced him. He wound up without a job. And they found him in a hotel room with two bullets in his head. That's a classic example of why journalists do not want to report on the CIA. Now, my point is this. And if it's God willing, my calling in life to do this, someone's got to say, stop ferrying the CIA. That's how they do it. They're able to manipulate people because they have created this persona that if you cross us, we're going to eventually get you. And so nobody will cross them, including the intelligence committees. That's why.

they've gotten away with what they're getting away with. And that's why we wrote Twilight of the Shadow Government. And that's why I wrote it without the CIA's approval. Because people need to stop fearing them. And as I mentioned before, there needs to be an avalanche of public demand for reform. They can maybe try to stop one or two of us, but they can't stop 10 or 20 million of us. You know, we're running out of time. So I'm like, oh, there's, all we're going to have to do, Kevin, is we're just going to have

to have you back on because this has been very, very interesting. And I don't know, I have, I have, I'm sure the audience is gonna be irritated, you know, so we're just gonna, we're just gonna have Kevin back on at some point. Appreciate on today and doing this. Yeah, I don't know. I don't even know how to end it because I might, you've got my brain firing on all cylinder.

I know, I know. Okay, well, I tell you what, thanks again for hopping. on and doing this and appreciate you giving us some time this morning. We'll make sure we reach back out and continue on with this chat. Yeah, thank you. And I want to thank you too for what you're doing because programs like yours and what you're doing is the answer. And so it's heroic what you're doing. And I just want to thank you for what you're doing and I admire it. So thanks for having me on. Well, I appreciate that. Some days I'm like, I don't even know what I just walked myself into. But now, you know, like I, there's a lot of things that are starting to piece together.

And once you start to build this thing out, you're like, holy man, this is a big animal. Yeah. And, well, it takes people such as yourself to talk about it to help us minions understand some of what we're truly up against. So thanks again for hop and all given. I promise it won't be the last time. Thank you, Sean. Been a pleasure.