Shaun Newman Podcast - #767 - Tanner Hnidey

Episode Date: December 25, 2024

Tanner is an economist, freelance speaker, social critic and author of “Kingdom of Cain”. We discuss the Christmas story, what the birth of Jesus means, wrestling with the flesh and going into the wilderness. Cornerstone Forum ‘25 https://www.showpass.com/cornerstone25/ Clothing Link: ⁠⁠⁠https://snp-8.creator-spring.com/listing/the-mashup-collection⁠⁠ Text Shaun 587-217-8500 Substack:https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcast E-transfer here: [e-mail] Silver Gold Bull Links: Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/ Email: [e-mail] Text Grahame: [phone]

This is Brett Olin. I'm Dr. Peter McCullough. This is Tom Lomago. This is Chuck Prodnick. This is Alex Krenner. Hey, this is Brad Wall. You're listening to the Sean Duman podcast. Merry Christmas, folks.

Yeah. I can't believe it's here. Christmas. Hopefully you get to spend it with some family. If you're on the roads, make sure you travel safe. You know, I got a little story to tell this morning. You know, 2019 is when I started this sucker, okay? 2019, February 2019.

And I back then was releasing one episode a week and it was on Wednesdays. Every Wednesday I'd release an episode. And that year, if you can believe it, Christmas fell on a Wednesday. So I mean, fast forward

and we got Christmas on a Wednesday. It just seems kind of like fitting. And I wasn't going to release anything. You know what? I said it was going to be the first week I'd taken off all year. So every Wednesday clockwork and believe me, that first year,

it may seem odd of me to, you know, like clockwork because, you know, like now every day there's a new episode. But back then, you know, like once a week, you know, like there was times where I was up till like

two in the morning dealing with issues and Mel would be going like, like, what are you doing? Just go to bed and I'm like, no. I said the episode was going to be out. I'm going to make sure I have it out. And so Christmas was coming. And I finally said on air,

listen, I'm going to take Christmas off, you know, on and on and on. And then I had a few working men reach out. In particular, one sticks out. It was Troy Clark. And he said, you know, I work Christmas Day, and I would really appreciate it if you'd release it something. I understand if you can't, but if you got something,

I would love it if you'd release it. And I was like, oh, okay. And so that year, episode 49 came out. Lance Ward, we were talking about his time in the NHL and how he went from Lloyd Minster to there. and you know now since then i i you know obviously i'm not sitting here you know christmas morning open up stockings and and uh recording something um we recorded this um a couple days before christmas tanner and i it's got to become a bit of a christmas tradition too to sit down

with tanner in a day and we'll get on to that but uh um to all you working men out there um my hat's off to you i know it can't be easy to uh right away from the family I'm sure you have your own traditions. I've talked to so many of you that, you know, it's like, I haven't been home for Christmas and X amount of years because of shift work and everything else. So hopefully you tune in.

We give you something to think about today. I just wanted to say, Merry Christmas to you all. And thank you for tuning into the podcast for the, you know, throughout the year. We got our, we have our top 25. of 2004 coming up March,

December 31st, New Year's Eve, we release on X, the top 25 episodes. I'll post them in different spots. But, yeah, really appreciate all of you being along for this journey. My shout-outs go to Silver Gold Bowl. They've stepped up to be one of the main sponsors

of 2025, again. Obviously, you've heard a lot about precious metals and, you know, they're one of the main reasons. I'm heading to Calgary for the Cornerstone Forum coming up, along with Bow Valley Credit Union. So my hats off to both those companies for putting their faith in what I do. Caleb Taves, Renegade Acres, you got to hear from him yesterday. Apologies, not yesterday.

You get to hear from tomorrow, actually, on a dangerous Christians roundtable. We'll see what you guys think of that. Spoiler alert, I guess that's coming. But Caleb Taves, he's been big on the community spotlight, and he's renewed that for next year as well. So appreciate the Renegate Acres being along for the ride. I appreciate all the companies being along for the ride and all the listeners. It has been an interesting year, and I hope and believe, actually,

I should say that 2025 has a lot in store for it as well. If you haven't got your tickets yet for the Cornerstone Forum heading to Calgary, Alberta, the early bird prices they end December 31st and you're going to be able to see Tom Luongo Alex Kramer, Chuck Proudnich, Kalen Ford, Matt Air, Ben Perrin,

Chris Sims, Tom Bodrovics we just announced Rod Gil Taka and Martin Armstrong is going to be in person. So that is some huge news down the show notes you can get tickets to that. The deer and steer butchery they want to wish everybody a Merry Christmas

and if you have haven't got your freezers full, well, maybe after Christmas. And you, you know, you want to get an animal sliced and diced up. Just head over to the deer and steer. Reach out to Amber, the butcheress there. 780870-8700. Substack, if you haven't subscribed to, it's free to do that. And if you're listening on or watching on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, Brummo,

make sure to subscribe. Leave a review. It all helps. I promise you. if you're watching on X, give her to share, a retweet.

If you're watching on Facebook and you're enjoying it, tag somebody in it, share it with your friends. Merry Christmas, folks. Let's get on to that tale of the tape. He's an economist, freelance speaker, social critic,

an author of Kingdom of Kane. I'm talking about Tanner Nadei. So buckle up, here we go. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Today I'm joined by Tanner Nadee. Sir, thanks for coming in. Oh, thanks for having me. Merry Christmas.

You know, I literally had all morning to do whatever I needed to do. Yeah. And then I got sidetracked. You know, I don't know if you ever get sidetracked. You get like a project you're like excited to do. And then pretty soon you're like, you're walking in. You're like, I haven't set anything up. Then you realize one of the cameras you left it on all morning long.

Sure. You're like, really, Sean? I literally sat here. Anyways, it doesn't matter. We got to work in now, at least for now. For now, people can see my beautiful face. But it disappears. You know why?

Because Sean's a moron. Yeah. Anyways, Christmas Day, okay? This release is on Christmas Day, which is, well, it's starting to take on whole new meetings on my side. But certainly, I think, you know, being married to an American, if I just start simple, the United States does July 4th different we do. Yeah. Obviously, like even better than, you know, Canada. And they do Thanksgiving different.

Yeah. Those two holidays, their world kind of shuts down. Yeah. Everything gravity. But to me, the United States. States and Christmas seems way too commercialized. We're on this side of things. Yeah.

I think Thanksgiving is kind of a throwaway. Yeah, here in Canada, sure. But we, and Canada Day has kind of become, I don't know, I don't know, has it ever been. Yeah. Not like, I'm not like July 4th. No, never, not even close. Not even close. Yeah.

But Christmas has always been like everything shuts down. Yeah. I don't know. I live near McDonald's. Yeah. It's like the one day McDonald's doesn't run. Right. Like, honestly.

Yeah. And if they could figure out a business plan for it, I'm sure they would, you know? That's true. Oh, yeah, the world is becoming increasingly commercialized with Christmas, which is sad. Like, you know, what is the meaning of Christmas? Well, it's like it's the day that we celebrate the day that God became incarnate, that God became a son of man so that we might be sons of God. That's the miracle of Christmas.

it's the day in which, you know, Almighty God takes on human flesh so that we would be able to take on the appearance of God in eternity. And so to commercialize it is tragic because it, you know, it's a day in which we get to celebrate like the ultimate miracle between that and the cross, the two ultimate miracles. This is one day that we get to do so.

Yeah. And so, you know, as a country grows increasingly, yeah, commercialized, this becomes an opportunity to make a lot of money, of course, and so why not do so? But it misses out on the reason for Christmas itself, which is the celebration. It's really, ultimately, it's the celebration of salvation. That's the purpose of Christmas.

Yeah. We celebrate it at Easter, true. We should celebrate it at Christmas too. Yeah. God has to take on human flesh to save us from sin. So this is the day we celebrated. Yeah. And it's, man, I almost don't even like being on, you know,

as we record this. Yeah. So I preface this in the intro, but I'm going to tell you the story again. I may have already told you this. This gets back to why I release anything on Christmas Day, right? When I'm giving everything so commercialized, blah, blah, blah. Meanwhile, Sean's got a podcast account. Rewind the clock to 2019.

And I was releasing one episode every Wednesday. Yeah. It's all I was doing for this. One week. And that year, on Christmas, it would have been a Wednesday. This year it's a Wednesday, which is kind of odd. But anyways, I mean, that's cycles. I get it.

I just, I started looking into it because I was like, yeah, I remember this. And it was Troy Clark who now sits in a Thursday morning group with us. It was him who would call, because I put out that I wasn't going to put anything out on Christmas. I'm like, I just, I need a break, you know, and everybody's got to slow down. Yeah, yeah. And he's one of the working men out there that's on shift. Yeah, God bless him. that, right, that have to work Christmas Day.

And I'm like, oh, right. So now I'm almost a complete opposite way. I'm like, well, I'm going to put something out or record a few days in advance. Yeah. Or we're going to talk about, you know, this go around, the meaning of Christmas. Yeah. Sometimes, you know, I was chuckling. I'm like, I think you were on last Christmas.

I was. This is becoming a little bit of a habit. Okay, fair. It's a good habit. But once again, I'm going to say it. But to all the working men out there who are away from their families and working the day, my hat's off to you because. I mean, it's not like it's this going off to war or something.

No. But in our culture, there's probably two days. Yep. You already pointed out Easter. Yeah. And certainly that's a big day. For obvious reasons. Yeah.

But culturally, Christmas, nothing touches it. No. Like out on the streets right now, it is absolute pandemonium. I do not like it. I do not like going anywhere right now because I'm like, oh, my goodness. Yeah, it's crawling everywhere. My Shay broke a skate lace, had to go get one. Yeah.

And I just knew him walking the storm. Yeah, yeah. It's going to be such insanity. I don't even want to go in there. And then Christmas Day happens, boom. Yeah. And nobody's moving. No.

Not a soul is moving for like, what, five, six hours. Yeah. Nobody dares come out of their house. Right. And that's quickly fleeting in our world. Oh, it is. Like, yeah, first, yeah, bless those men and women who work. on Christmas and who have to, you know, at the hospitals or up north on the patch,

whatever it might be. It's difficult to be away from family when the, when you have such a special, you know, day or a couple of days, just, you know, that happened once a year. And so I think it's excellent you put out episodes like this. It's wonderful. And then as for the silence on Christmas, you know, it's, I, you and I were talking, I think it's so fascinating how in spite of Canada's secular position, we still adhere to Christmas and are, you know, are very dedicated in, like you mentioned on Christmas Day, we're silent, we stay in our homes, celebrate with families. It's like, you know, why? There are a lot of holidays around the world that we don't celebrate. And why celebrate Christmas, especially when the society is becoming

increasingly secular? Because it's clearly a celebration of Jesus. That's what it is. You can't get around that. You can say it's about family and friends, and it's wonderful to gather with family and friends, but it's not about gathering with family. That's not the purpose of Christmas. The purpose of Christmas, and the reason the holiday exists is because of the birth of Christ. And then we had said, quite rightly, that it demonstrates Canada's true a foundation, right? We are a nation founded on the supremacy of Almighty God, of Jesus Christ. And so from that foundation, the holidays follow. Even though the nation's becoming increasingly secular,

you can't escape the fact that Canada is built on these principles of, you know, scriptural principles. And as a consequence of being a nation that's founded in Christianity, at least in part, we celebrate the Christian holidays and continue to do so, even in spite of the increasing secularization and multiculturalism in the country. I don't know if people know. I just, I always use me as the guinea pig, right? Like, certainly mom would have the manger scene out, right?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And like, you get it. Oh, yeah. All right. Yeah, sure. Whatever. And you walk by.

I don't know. I don't know if people, I think. people just revere what happens at this time of year. And they, I don't think they understand, like, certainly a lot of people understand because of being a moron here, but I'm just saying, like, Sean, I'm five years ago. Yeah. You know, would turn his nose up at the Christmas story. Yeah.

Right? Why? Yeah. Why do we have to read that? Yeah. Because I just want to go play hockey and have some time with family and friends. Yeah, I love doing that too. Monopoly.

And there's, and there's song and dance and drinking and all the great things. Yeah. And now I sat in church, shout out to Pastor Chris, and I listened to him talking about it. I'm like, just slowly beginning to get some things. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so what does when you see the manger scene in Christmas, what do you think of now?

What? I think I... What's so special about it? About the birth of the savior? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's so unique? Yeah. Lots of kings have been born.

Okay. So, I've been wrestling. with this. Yeah. Because I'm like, okay, God, like, can, you know, basically time travel, right? Yeah, he's outside of time. He's outside of time. In my world, that's time travel.

Sure. Okay. God's time travel. And I think about that, and I go, okay, so he's going to have this boy, okay. Yeah. And he's not going to put him anywhere fancy. No. No, because why would he do that?

He's going to put him in a horse trough. You're like, okay. Yeah. All right. And then it's like knowing what's going to happen. know, like he's going to have to go through everything. Oh, yeah. He was from eternity, of course.

Yes. And so he knows this. Yeah. So why is it important? Yeah. Well, because it marks the start of the end in the best possible way. Start calling you Socrates. Yeah, so, well, so God, after Adam and Eve fall in Genesis, God pronounces a prophecy that from

the seat of the woman, which is so interesting because no such thing is a seed of the woman. It's a man. But anyways, from the seat of the woman will come a savior, yeah. And then the Old Testament is just a picture of who that Savior is going to be, and he shows up in Bethlehem, however many thousands of years later. Yeah, and so this is the story of God's, it's the launch of, I don't know, I shouldn't say it's the launch of God's redemptive plan for humanity, because, you know, again, that was quote unquote launched in Eden,

but this is the manifestation of the one who will save mankind. It's the incarnation of God himself. So it's not as though Jesus was, you know, created. He was, he's just as eternal as the father. But yeah, he takes on human flesh. So then the question is, why not, why not sent him to earth as a rich king? Why not have him arrive at pomp and splendor? Why put him?

You know what we think, like, so we know the Christmas story, no room at the inn and so on. You know, it's Joseph's knocking on hotel doors and please let me in. Oh, sorry, we're booked up. Well, not quite. It was actually probably this. when Augustus has his census, Joseph has to take his betroth back to his hometown, to Bethlehem.

So he does. But all of Joseph's family, cousins, brothers, etc., would have had to have gone to Bethlehem as well. Now, in Bethlehem and in just that ancient area where Jesus grew up and Joseph lived and so on, the homes were two-story. You had an upper room, the inn, then you had a lower area on the ground by the road

where the animals were. And so it's more accurate probably that by the time Joseph and Mary got to Joseph's hometown, to Bethlehem and to his home, to his family home, the upstairs room where people slept, that was full. His family's room, you know, all of the guest rooms in his family's home were full. And so he and Mary had to stay down with where the animals were kept on that bottom area. That's what is meant by the manger. And yeah, he would have been, Jesus would have given birth by the animals. It's so humble. It's stunningly humble.

Right? When you have a, when you have a, a savior who comes from heaven, who is literally God, show up this way and not with absolute power and authority, it makes you shake your head. Why? Why come like that? Why not come else? Why? Or, you know, differently. Why not come opposite? What do you think? It's just a beautiful story. Well, it is. Oh, it's the most beautiful story. it's um and it's prophesied all over right like the whole old testament is filled with these prophecies

of course isaiah is always the clearest prophecy we turn to but it's everywhere why show up like this i was thinking you know as um i can never you know so so chris is doing his his thing yeah and um he starts talking and then my brain starts going and you know i i suppose that's that's i don't know is that a good thing a bad thing folks i don't know i'd like maybe Chris said something and just spurt. He has a way with painting a picture and then my brain goes 100 miles an hour, but it introduces

you know, like time travel and things like that because I just find it so fascinating, right? And I'm like, what a, what a, what a, what a, what a, what a, like, writer he is? Like, what a, what a way to tell a story?

What a way to put things and then have them go the way they end up going. Yeah. And everything. I'm just like, this is a, wow,

it's a beautiful story. Yeah. And to celebrate Christmas, you know, even last year, I don't know, I don't know if we had anything to do with

the Christian story. Yeah. In the house. I, I'm just, I'm just thinking about it. And already we have, you know,

we have the, the manger set up and everything. Yeah. Now I'm trying to think, mom gave me that. She might have probably did. I can't remember. Mel,

Me, page isn't in mine too, yeah. And I'm like, it just takes on, when you understand what the symbols mean and like what the story like holds to it. Yeah. Just takes on a whole different thing. Yeah. I've walked, you know, like this is deviating bit, but the last supper. Yeah. It took reading the Da Vinci Code.

Yeah. To realize Mary Magdalens in it. I've, mom's had that at her house. Right. Like, since I was knee high. Sure. I've walked by it and never paid it any. And I'm like, I remember reading the book, being like, Mary Magdalene is not in that picture.

And then you walk up and you're like, holy crap, there she is. How did I miss that for so long? Yeah. And I find that lots with Christmas right now, right? Like with Christmas, I've walked by so many things. I've walked by, you know, like I've just glazed over the story because I've heard it so many times. Uh-huh. Okay.

Yeah. And yet now I'm like, I don't know, certainly from a family standpoint, there's going back, but a society standpoint, I don't know if there's any giant movement that could happen to make us less secular. Like, look at the, we were talking on the ride over about the NFL going to Christmas games now. Basketball's been there. They're commercializing it more in the States, and I'm just like, I don't know how you go back. Yeah. Well, there's one movement, it's a good point.

There's one movement that would make society less secular, that will make society less secular. And it's the second Christmas. So before this, we were chatting. You know the scene from Lord of the Rings where it's, I've had first breakfast. Yes, but what about second breakfast? Well, so too. We've had first Christmas. Great.

Jesus is born. He comes as a humble, you know, as this humble child that the world totally rejects. Hates him, right? The moment Christ is born, you have Herod give out this order, this decree to kill all the boys in Bethlehem, right? Because the Messiah's come and he might be king and I'm king. And I don't want to let Messiah, I don't want to let this possible prophecy come to light. And so it's, you know, his Christ's coming is filled with hatred from the world. It's filled with total rejection. Joseph and Mary are on the run, you know, and for the rest of his life,

Jesus is reviled as if not a man who looks funny, then this peculiar carpenter, he's probably actually a stone mason, to be honest. Nazareth was known for its stone, not really for any trees. But anyways, known as this tradesman who was working weird miracles among people and he was an odd duck and all of those things, hey. So that's his first coming. Let me celebrate that. But then there's a second Christmas coming, right? The first Christmas celebrates the first incarnation or the first coming of Jesus Christ.

The second Christmas is going to celebrate the second coming of Jesus Christ, because he's coming back. Yeah? He's come once. He did what he had to do and what he needed to do and what was prophesied that he was going to do once, died for our sins, was raised to life as justification, and a guarantee that we too would share in that resurrection, should we believe in him.

And he ascends to heaven. You know, that happened 2,000-ish years ago, right? But there's a second Christmas coming, a second coming of Jesus Christ. And his second coming is going to be diametrically opposite his first. So his first coming was humble, and the world hated him, and he was born in poverty, and he had, you know, the world wouldn't receive him, and all those things. His second coming is opposite. He comes in glory, comes in power, comes with believers behind him, yeah?

His bright light as he arrives, says Revelation, this blinding light, and he comes to wipe out his enemies once for all. It's not as though Herod is coming back to try and kill Christ again. No, instead Christ is coming back to wipe out those who hate him, those who reject him, and usher in a new millennium, right, a new age of righteousness and rule that's never been experienced on the earth. So it's a totally opposite coming from his first. First Christmas, we celebrate. The only thing that would change the secular position of society with regards to Christmas is Jesus and the second coming,

which is coming soon. Yeah, yeah. That's what I've been focusing on over the last little while. It's the second Christmas and showing how it's just opposite to first. The first he comes in humility, comes in rags, world rejects him. Yeah, he's born in a manger, no one receives him. second coming he comes in power comes in glory comes in on a horse

whole sky is lit up no one misses his second coming it's not normal this is something totally it's never happened before in history never will happen again and then he ushers in a new millennium yeah I go back to probably somewhere this has been there's been something done like that but I think I think God's a chess player he's just like except instead of playing like chess He's playing like 6D chess or 12 D chess.

He's thinking so many moves ahead, you just can't even possibly fathom, you know? Like they talk about people who can, you know, are good chess players or or just good strategist. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. In life and they, oh, they could, oh, and if I do this, I know they're going to react and I can think two moves ahead. Maybe there's some people that can think four moves ahead. Right.

Right. I'm like, this, this guy is like, you know, 80 moves ahead. 2,000 moves ahead. Like, we don't be just, you know, someday I'm just gonna, I don't know. Well, the games are, yeah. Sit across and have an interview maybe. Well, the game's already complete.

Don't think there is any moves for God to look ahead to. Who do you play against? Yeah, but I know, right? But the game is still playing out. Life is, life is still playing. Well, that's true, yes. He's already made the moves. He's already, he's already,

You can already see which really messes with my mind a bit. He's not reacting. And it just goes. Yeah, no, it's not as though God reacts. Because there's nothing to react to. He's outside of time. Lewis has a cool quote where he's like, I can't phrase it perfectly, but what does he say? We're not, he says we're not producers.

We're not playwrights. We're not even the audience. He goes, we're the stage. We're on the stage. Yeah. There's really, there's no one for God to play chess against. It's, uh, And then that's when you kind of sometimes, sometimes Christians will foolishly, I think,

delve into that Calvinist versus Armenian debate and who's predestined and who's got free will. And it's like both exist at the same time. So all that to say, Almighty's plan has been determined from, you can't say eternity past because then it implies he has a past. He doesn't. He's alpha and omega, first and last. It's from the beginning to the end. He's just infinite and eternal. So I don't think it's quite right to think of him as a chess player.

I think it implies he has to think, moves ahead and react to what's happening. Now he doesn't have to do that. No, no. What would you say then? He's just a sculptor? He's building something? Yeah, well, he is. Yeah, he's, that's a very, I think it's difficult to define who he is.

Well, you have to define him in terms of Christ. That's how we understand Almighty ultimately. It's true, Jesus. So he makes the chess board. He makes the chess pieces. He defines the rules of the game. And he knows the outcome of the game. Before it started.

And he's the one who determines it. But there's also, but you and I have a freedom to act as we wish. And you go, that's insane. That's impossible how. But I think it's paradoxical. It works. It's the same with light. You know, light travels as a particle on a wave.

The sun blinds you if you look at it, but we also need it to see. Yeah. A chivalrous man is. You know, everywhere I look in pop culture. Yeah. I see Christianity. It's like, so we were watching Yellowstone last night. Okay.

and the end of, forgive me, folks. Is it the end of season four? I can't remember. Anyways, Casey is, he's doing a First Nations thing, and I'm sure it's in First Nations culture, and I'm not trying to,

but he's stuck in this, I don't know, he's doing a spiritual walk or something. Anyways, he's being tempted to leave this thing, and I'm like, oh my God, this is like Jesus and, you know, out in the wilderness. Yeah. And basically, you know,

And in the show, you know, it's his brother and it's different things like that. And I'm like, maybe I'm completely off. Maybe there is no correlation. But all I see is Jesus being tempted. I'm like, well, that's an interesting story. Right. Like just go read Jesus being tempted instead. You'll see some things.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's a fascinating story, isn't it? The temptation of Christ in the wilderness. I've been doing a study on the wilderness lately. It's, yeah, all fascinating. Well, the thing that. Oh, man.

The thing that, so, as people can probably tell, I've been enjoying reading the Bible lately again. Yeah. Again, and I say again because I go in ebbs and flows, sometimes it really irritates me. I mean, in the best possible way, I think, I don't know. Yeah. I lost my train of thought.

No, but it's, yeah. And you have, I think you're an advantageous position. I appreciate that you just read, I'd appreciate that you just read the Bible. That's what you do. We get into a spot lots of times, and this is going to become more common as the day of Christ, the return of Christ

draws near, where we tend to spiritualize everything, and we look for hidden metaphors and all these scriptures, which there's a lot of wisdom in the scriptures. There's an infinite amount, like it's unfathomable because it's not just a book written by a man, right? It's different than that. It's the only book, it's unique in this sense.

But we start to look for pictures, and we look for them so long, we find pictures that aren't there. The scriptures are meant to be read. when it says believe in Jesus, it means exactly that. You know, when it means believe in Christ for salvation, it means believe in Him for your salvation. And that's all.

It doesn't have to be philosophized to the end. It doesn't have to be discussed over, you know, tens of millions of hours about what does Jesus mean by believe? What does he mean by salvation? It's like, no, just trust the scripture. If it's built so that a little child can understand it, which is what Jesus says, then you and I have the capacity to understand it too.

We don't have to sit there and think and think and think and never stop thinking about what exactly does he mean by this particular word, or what exactly does he mean by the wilderness, or how can, you know, just take it for what it is. Christ goes to the wild, he gets tempted. He saves us on the cross. It's a real, it's real. Yeah. And so what's so neat about Christmas is that you can't escape that real part, right? The reason we celebrate Christmas is the real aspect of the physical Jesus coming to earth and being born so that he might save.

mankind. There's nothing to philosophize there. That's the meaning. That's the meaning. That's it. Comes to earth, takes the form of human flesh to be the image of the invisible gods, says Paul in Colossians 1, 15 to 18, so that you and I can see what Yahweh, what our creator is really like.

And then he can save us from our sin so that we might become sons of God. I am, you're going back to your, just thought on me just reading the Bible. Yeah. And people just need to read the Bible. Yeah, just read it.

I think COVID has broke me on multiple levels. One is I don't know if I'll ever trust anyone to be an intermediary for me ever again. And I'm speaking specifically to media. Yeah. Right? To tell me what's actually happening? I'm like, I don't know if I want to go see it. Yeah.

And so with the Bible, I have a really hard time. And once again, Pastor Chris does a great job. Yeah. But I'm like, I want to read it myself. Yeah. I'm done with people telling me how things work and how. Yeah. It doesn't mean that you, obviously, we've had lots of conversations.

Yeah, yeah. It doesn't mean that I don't enjoy a good conversation. I do. Yeah. I just want to have the physical form. I want to read it. Yeah. I want to see what it says.

Yeah. And then, you know, with technology these days, I can read it six different ways from six different languages essentially. Yeah. You know, old English to the, and then you start to see. Hebrew and Greek and. Oh, interesting. That's, and so one, reading.

it is so fascinating to me, right? Because, you know, like, if you like prominent figures in history, does it get any more prominent in Jesus? And you may roll your eyes, because I used to roll my, sure. Now I'm like, what a moron I was. You know, like just, oh, sock it to me back then. And the other thing is, is like, with the temptation, where I lost my train of thought was the thing that always baffles me. Isn't that that Jesus came as a lowly person? Right. Right. Right. It's that he goes through absolutely everything. Everything. We would probably all, you know.

That's exactly what the Hebrew says. The Hebrew says we don't have a high priest who's unable to empathize with our weakness, but one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are, yet he didn't sin. The Hebrews is very, that's a brilliant book you've got to read two Hebrews. But anyways, you're right on the mark. He goes through everything that you and why go through. He goes through all of our stress sufferings. I keep cutting them off.

I'm too excited. It's Christmas, folks. I hope you're having a good time. You remember you telling me, I'm sure it was you, that Jesus said to one of the disciples, get behind me, Satan? Peter, yeah, he said that to Peter. If you recall this, we were sitting in here and I was walking out, and I'm like, I don't believe you.

That did not happen. Oh, that happened. I mean, see if you've read the Bible. I said that to Tanner probably two years ago. Maybe a year and change ago. I'm like, that did not happen. I was so fascinated that that actually happened. Yeah.

That he, one of his most trusted men, he called Sate. Yeah. Like, I know. What? I'm like, oh, I got to think about that. Yeah.

I got to really think about that. And then the temptation of them, right? And all these different things. You know, there was a video that popped up on my Twitter today. And on my axe. It's a Megan Fox video. Okay. And honestly,

very bizarre. And, but here's the thing. This is the reason I bring it up. I've never understood, well, I guess at times I have, but Proverbs talks about the woman who comes in the night and can take you away. Yeah. Right? Yes.

To hell. Lots, yeah. And I'm like, I don't know what that's talking. Like, I'm in my brain, I'm thinking of a beautiful woman. Yeah. And I watched the Megan Fox video. And I'm like, Megan Fox is that woman. I'm not saying, she could be a Christian right now.

I'm just saying, nah, she's probably not. Who am I kidding? But I'm like, this is what Proverbs is talking about. This woman comes in the middle of the night. You're going to have a hard time. She will tempt you because she is absolutely beautiful. And listen, I love my wife, folks, more than life itself. I love that woman a lot.

We were just hanging out last night. Can't wait to have more time with her. Obviously, I'm not going out at two in the morning to go find a Magin Fox. I'm just saying you run into Megan Fox. When Proverbs talks about it, I don't take that, I don't take that lightly. I'm like, what is it talking about? And then I watched that video. Yeah.

And I'm like, oh, that's what it's talking about. Yeah, flesh is so weak. That's what Jesus says, right? Spirit's wielding, flesh is weak. That's just the nature of man. Yeah, so, well, he says that to Peter, too, when they're in Gassimony, praying before the crucifixion, and the disciples are all falling asleep

as Jesus is praying. They're tired. And Jesus is like, get up. It says, spirits wielding flesh is week. Spirit's willing flesh is weak. Nature of man. David sins with best Shiva. Solomon, wise as man, like literally the wisest man to ever live, apart from Jesus,

falls, like, marries how many women? The 800, right? Wow, like, plus, and then he has concubines. So he falls, you know, and that ushers in a horrible age in Israel's history, right, where because of all of these foreign marriages, they usher in a lot of foreign gods. Israel's cracked, split down the middle, and there's a protracted period of lots of issues. for that nation, lots and lots of issues, which are only, quote, unquote, resolved

with the invasion and conquer of Assyria and Babylon. So that doesn't end well, and it's because of foolishness. Yep, so be run and be careful. With the point of that, in part, the point of the temptation is to show that Jesus succeeds where Adam fails. Jesus is the last Adam, right? So you have Adam, the first man,

and is the head of the human race, then he falls. That's the end of that. So now we need another Adam. Not a second Adam. No, we need a last Adam. And that's Christ. Everywhere where Adam falls, Jesus succeeds. Yeah, everywhere where Adam falls, Jesus succeeds.

Like, you know, what's the, yeah, the ultimate story of Christmas is every attempt, every attempt of man to save himself has failed badly and will continue to fail. Put your faith in Antiochus, failure. Put your faith in Hannibal, failure. Put your faith in Caesar, failure. All of them fail. Put your faith in this man. who you wouldn't expect to put your faith in,

and you'll have success. I was going to say put your faith in Donald Trump or Pierre Poliov. Or Trump or Smith. Doesn't matter. Failure, failure, failure. Or Baron Trump. People love Baron. Failure.

All of them failures. You know, they can't save you. They can't save you from death. They can save you from economic tribulation? Well, maybe sure, for a little while. But they're going to die too. They can't save you from death. Like, could you imagine, could you imagine, like,

just walking around. And one day you hear that, that there's this man from Neilberg, Saskatchewan, who is working miracles. He's a mechanic, and he's working miracles, and he's gaining a steady group of followers. Oh, and by the way, if you believe in him, you'll be saved from death.

Could you imagine the insanity of that? Today's world, I'd be like, there's a cult in Neilberg. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, for sure. You'd say there's a, wherever the guys from you say, there's something weird going on, but eventually you go, let me, you know,

maybe I'll go check it out. You know, it's so, it's so bizarre. a story on its own. Now, of course, what if I told you that actually this man from Neilberg's been prophesied about for not just two or five years before his birth? No, hundreds and thousands of years before his birth. And here are the prophecies that prove it.

Then it's interesting. Then you kind of go, huh, there are a lot of coincidences here that maybe line up more than I thought. Yeah, and then you, you know, take it from there. See, and so, like, I didn't, that's not how I stumbled, you know, What I find interesting about faith is how people stumble into it. Yeah, differently.

Some people, maybe their stumbles a little shorter. I call it stumble because I don't, honest folks, I don't know how you just walk in one day and just like, yep, I believe and away we go. Yeah, the secret is to be a child. That's the secret. Yeah, but I know what you mean. But trust me, I don't disagree with you. I stumble in because of, and I wonder, you know, like I've been wondering this. I've been wondering this a lot.

You know, in Ottawa, there was a street preacher, and I was in bad sorts. It was right after this. And I'm sorry, I'm pointing to the picture of me praying in front of the Peace Tower, folks. Anyways, I saw him and I went directly to him. Yeah. And I hugged him. Yeah. And, you know, he, I can't remember what he said.

Brother, you okay? And I said, I need some prayer. Yeah. I'm being tormented and everything else. And I thought about that a lot. I'm like, wonder how often that happens to a street preacher where a guy comes up. Yeah. Probably looks like his hair is on fire and, you know, is just like, and I just need help.

Yeah. And, you know, it's not like all of a sudden I, oh, no, and then it was done. Yeah. But I look at that and I, you know, I've read enough Frank Pready novels now. And I think about that and I go, huh. Yeah. There's something there. And that's my journey to it.

Yeah. I tell it in a romantic style. way because, you know, for me, that's how it played out. It played out in this weird story. I didn't just show up to church one day, but I'm sure that's how it happened for others. And, you know, for people who are struggling with it or have never experienced anything. Yeah. Or on and on and on.

Yeah. I just go, you'll find your way to stumble into it if you keep looking. Yeah. Because if you keep looking, chances are something's going to stick out. You're going to be like, what the heck was that? Yeah. You know? Yeah, it's like, uh, Jake.

You know, Jacob, Isaac's son, yeah, Isaac's son, goes, you know, goes away for a while because of a particular reason. Anyways, as he's coming back to his brother, Esau, as Jacob's coming back with his family to his brother Esau, he meets a man in the middle of the night and they wrestle. It's a weird, it's a strange story. They wrestle all night. They really wrestle, you know, think of the stamina and the strength to wrestle. And at the end of the night, as the day is breaking, this man touches Jacob's hip. and he dislocates it, he takes it out of its socket. So something supernatural about this man.

And I'll just paraphrase the story. At the end of all of it, Jacob realizes he's wrestled with God. He's wrestled with Yahweh. He's wrestled with a pre-incarnate form of Jesus. And after that, Jacob's renamed. He gets a new name. You know what his name is? It's Israel.

His new name is Israel. We who wrestle with God. And I have to, I don't know if it's we who wrestle with God and persevere, or and defeat. I don't know. I got to look that one up. There's a guy named Andy Woods. He's brilliant.

He's a scholar out of the States. And he does work on this stuff. Anyways, regardless, there is a section in there that says, we who wrestle with God or wrestling with God. What, what, here's what Tanner,

what chapter? Where am I looking for this story? Or where's anyone looking? Oh, it's in Genesis. It's near the, it's, oh, I don't know, somewhere in probably the 20s of Genesis. later 20s. Yeah, Jacob.

Whole story of Jacob. So you have, okay, so you have you have Adam and Eve, yeah, they fall. God says, but I'm going to still save humanity. Even though you've sinned and are now separated by an infinite chasm from me, I'm going to save you. I'm going to do it. And after that Adam and Eve go out of the Garden of Eden, still in Eden.

They do more bad things. They have kids who do bad things. Sin multiplies on the earth becomes evil. This is a whole podcast on all this very, The first 11 chapters of Genesis. Well, aren't you just lovely because we have a whole podcast? The whole, the first 11 chapters of Genesis are just so foundational to Christian theology and just to the understanding of Christ itself. There's a story of an angelic rebellion.

Angels come down and sleep with human women to create these hybrid Nephilim. Nephilim. God has to wipe them out because they're no longer human. The race has been corrupted. Leaves one man who is uncorrupted, Noah. Noah's saved. Noah, you know, with his family, goes through. the, you know, the flood, and the first thing they do after the flood is sin, right?

They could, the evil multiplies again. And then it accumulates at the Tower of Babylon, Tower of Babel, with Nimrod and so on, you know, and Almighty God says, fine, you want to serve all these lesser gods, these evil gods, so be it. You go ahead. I don't want anything to do with it anymore. So he disperses the nations. They follow Baal and Moloch and all of these other wicked idols. But God's plan to save humanity is still in effect.

And so he goes into a city and he takes one man. Abraham or Abram at this time who worships idols, him and his dad. You know, they worship these idols in Mesopotamia. And he tells Abram, I'm going to make, he brings him out, says, follow me. You know, you're my chosen people now. And from your line will be the Messiah. And so he brings Abram out and they travel and wander. And Abraham has a kid, Isaac, through a promise, through God's promise.

Isaac has a son, Jacob and Esau. And then from Jacob comes the tribes of Israel. And then, of course, from Israel comes Christ, Jesus Christ. Yeah, yeah. And so it's this, it's this, even though there's a lot of wrestling, a lot of doubt among the people, it's the story of wrestle with God,

trust in him, and Christ saves. Yeah, yeah. It's just that, yeah, everything leads to the, the reason Christmas is so important is everything leads to the story of Christmas. Everything leads to the incarnate birth. And it's why it's inexcusable that those who are, well, now, and those who were alive

at the time of Jesus' birth rejected him as Messiah because the prophecies were so clear. Even Daniel's prophecy. He gives the number of years it'll be before the Messiah arrives to the year. It's fascinating.

The prophecies are crystal and yet they refuse to see him because there is a spiritual blindness that blocks a man from a supernatural blindness that refuses to allow him to believe in Christ. So when I talk about stumbling into this, mind comes from, Maybe, I don't know, maybe you can, maybe you have your thoughts on us.

Mine definitely comes from the spiritual side. Yeah. Which was, I was very blind to, right? Yeah. Yeah. But then things just started happening over and over and over again. And I'm like, something is off. What is it?

Different. Don't like it. Don't like it. And then you can watch probably through the podcast, I would assume. That's why the Tanner in a day starts coming on more than, but in fairness, that's why I started reaching out to a ton of people. Because I was like, what is going on with me? Yeah. Am I losing my mind?

Yeah. Right? And so not only is the story in the Bible on all the, you know, like, I just think, like, how human we are, right? Yeah. You can't, I think of, I think of Moses in the desert. Yeah. You literally have a flame that is God. Yeah.

Okay? Yeah. And people are still sinning. Yeah. But is God not right there? Yeah, I know. And so, you know, like, thinking about things like that. Yeah.

Realizing that Jesus was telling one of his disciples, Satan, get behind me. One of the disciples talks about why do I sit, why do I fight so hard against the flashing? Forget Tanner, I'll know which one I'm talking about, I assume. Basically, like, I know what to do. Romans, yeah. It's actually Paul, yeah. Paul, thank you.

Yeah. And why do I do what I know? I shouldn't. That's right. What a great Roman 7. It's a great place. And so you go like, listen we've all been like if you're a human being, which I assume listen to this, you are. A couple of dogs probably out there somewhere.

You have been, you're wrestling against human nature. You're wrestling against what it's been wrestled with for all a human history. Right? It's this beautiful thing where you get to choose. And at times you choose wrong. Yeah. I go back to Abraham Because I think about this so much. I'm like, why would he let him do that?

Yeah, he chooses wrong a lot, Abraham. He does. Yeah. So he has a kid. Yeah, with Hagar. Right? Which isn't from the promise, it's right. Correct.

And from Hagar. And from that, you get Islam. Yeah. Now, once again, this isn't me to crap on any other religion because I know people of the Islamic faith that are wonderful human beings. I just bring it up because I'm like, think about that. God tells him, just stick with my plan, you're going to have a kid. Yeah.

Okay? He goes, it's not happening fast enough. I'm doing it my own way. His own way? Yeah. Spurs on. Yeah. Think of how many millions of deaths just between Christianity and Islam.

Don't worry about anything else just other than that. Yeah. It's like, oh man. Yeah, that's the story of man. He did what was right in his own eyes. And it led to total destruction. So I guess where I'm sitting is like, you know, It doesn't matter where you're sitting at today.

Yeah. Right? You could be in the lowest of lowest spots. Yeah. And in fairness, I think we probably all sat there. I know for a certain in the last two years, I've sat in some very freaking low spots. Yeah.

Where I didn't think there was any way out of it. No. And it's funny, I still screw up all the time. I'm like, oh my God. I'm like, what a moron I am. Because, you know, like, it's almost like I got the burning bush, you know? or the flame. Oh, yeah, I know.

And yet I still screw up. And I'm like, what a moron I am. But we've all been dealing with this minus Jesus for 2,000 years. Yeah. You just said it. Noah goes through the flood. No. First thing he does?

First thing they do is sin. Sin. How does that make any sense? Noah gets drunk and there's some egregious sin committed by his, yeah, by ham. Yeah. Think about that. Oh, yeah. He just wiped out everybody.

Yeah. Look at, well, first, from the Abraham story, so what I get from that most of all is that the promises of God are not dependent on our level of adherence to them. I think that's so essential. Say that one more time. So the promises of God to you and I

are not dependent on our level of adherence to them. So there is this nonsense that's going around in modern Christianity that says, unless I see real, proof of your belief in Jesus, you're not saved. And they cite James and so on. I think that's garbage. The work of Christ is this, the work of God is this, says Jesus,

to believe in the one he's sent. That's it. Do you believe in God or do you not? Do you believe, no, more accurately. Do you, everyone, lots of people believe in God. Do you believe in the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ? That's the question. And can you call him Lord or not?

And if you do, you're saved. That promise is guaranteed to you. That's it. And you might say, well, I don't have as many good works as the other man. You know, I believe in Christ, but I still drink a gallon of alcohol every day and I go home drunk. Does that mean I'm not saved? No, not at all, right? The work of Christ is to believe in the one he's sent and that's it. Believe in him and be saved. Look at Abraham. Abraham is given a promise from God. Clear promise. And he makes mistake after mistake after mistake after mistake. He doubts that promise, right? He proves it. whether be it, well, most clearly by his child with Hagar, right, with Ishmael.

He proves in that that he doesn't really, at that moment at least, believe in God's promise, right? Not as a way as God tells it. And yet, God's promise still remains. It perseveres. It endures because it's not dependent on Abraham's level of obedience. That isn't the test as to whether or not, not the test. That isn't the fulcrum that will determine whether or not the promise comes true. no the promise is dependent on God and himself and that's it so too is salvation so Jesus comes to

earth to save mankind and the first thing that happens is Herod says let's wipe him out let's kill him and it's like if there were ever proof that you know man is too evil to be saved it's Jesus's life it's the fact that at every turn we tried to kill him and then we succeeded yeah then we actually did kill him right and yet the promise of salvation endures because it's not dependent on you and I it's not dependent on our level of salvation. Now, I'm not saying that a man who's saved will dive deeper and deeper into depravity. That's not what I'm saying, no.

Well, I would say once, well, I don't know. You could probably say it more poetically than I will. But once you pick up the good book and start reading it, yeah. Oh, yeah, you'll be transformed. You can read things and be like, ah. Yeah, yeah. I didn't know about that, right?

And if you don't know about it, then you just, right? That's right. It doesn't mean it happens overnight. The one thing I like about it, all my life, I was told Armagedon's coming tomorrow. You've got to be saved. If you aren't saved, you're going to hell. I'm paraphrasing, but that's basically my childhood. Y2K was mixed in there, and you're like, all the world's coming to an end.

And if it wasn't that, then it was 2012. And the world's coming to an end again. What a bunch of hogwash. Regardless, my brain as a kid didn't understand because then Armageddon didn't come. So then you went, these people are telling me lies. I don't like it. And the biggest lie of all is that it's a race. I don't see it as a...

I could be wrong. To me, it feels like a big old journey, a big old adventure, and the longer it goes on... Yeah. Just little things start to fall in place. You're like, huh. And it makes me want to go to church. Yeah.

I never thought I'd say that. It makes me want to pick up the Bible. Certainly never was going to do that. And all these little things. And as you read it more, you're going to see more of yourself in it because all the stupidity, and I'm speaking to myself again, the stupidity I've done, right?

Because it's just in there. You already talked about King Solomon. Right. Go read that and have your brain shocked. Yeah, yeah. Brilliant. Now, as for like the Armageddon stuff, like that's the second coming.

Christ is coming back. There's no doubt about that. And the reason I believe that is because he was raised from the dead. Read Matthew 24, the all of it discourse. It's can, it's, uh, and read that, um, with, yeah, that one actually requires a lot of analysis. That's a very interesting prophecy. So the art, like, it's not as though Armageddon's not coming.

It is now. The man who says, I know when it's coming is a fool. That's true. The man who says, I know what's Joseph Smith said he knew when Christ was coming back. That was two, you know, how many hundreds of years ago and he was wrong. So, like, that's foolishness. That's pure foolishness. But it's coming.

It is coming. Now, I'm saved and I wish to be saved. This is a Lloyd Jones quote. I want to be saved not to have a salvation from hell, although that's true, but to have a salvation from sin. and the two are not the same, right? They're different. It's true, I don't want to go to hell. No one does.

No one wants to, not when they really understand what hell is. No one wants to be there. But I'm saved because I want a salvation from sin. I want to be rescued from this evil, which I do now. I want to live eternally. I don't want to, I don't want to descend into a grave and have to live with my evil forever and ever. That's horrible.

No, I want to do the opposite. I want the evil to be lost. I want it to be shed, like a snake sheds its skin. and I want a new man to emerge who is perfectly righteous in all that he does. Now, of course, I still sin and I do what's wrong. But the Holy Spirit says Paul has been given to me as a deposit, guaranteeing what's to come. That's in 2 Corinthians 5.

And as a consequence of that, I know that I'm going to be resurrected one day because of, in part, the Christmas story, and I'll be able to be totally free from all desire to do evil. Wonderful story. It's so exciting. And that promise isn't dependent on me. I focus on the Abraham story because I wanted to show the grace. It's on grace.

It isn't. Paul is clear in Ephesians 1, 4, and 5. In Ephesians 2, 1 to 10, in John 6, 35 to 40, Jesus is clear. The whole story of the scripture is, your works do not determine your level of salvation. Do you believe in Christ? Do you not? And you say there are carnal Christians out there who believe in Jesus and still do very bad things. Oh yeah, absolutely, for sure. No doubt about that. And shame on them for continuing

in their sin and, you know, loving to live like the world lives. But they're still saved. Look at Lot and look at, well, really most of the Old Testament characters, Lot lives in Sodom and Gomorrah. He's a very bad man. It's a very wicked man. But he's saved from the destruction that befalls Sodom and Gomorrah because of Abraham's intercession. And because Lot's salvation is not dependent on his level of goodness or badness. No. Instead, it's dependent on the Lord's mercy. That's the story of Christmas. Why would God send Jesus to Earth when we hate God? Why would he come to Earth when we despise him? Man hates him. Like just reviles him. Why send his son to Earth to save us? And it's because the promise to do so, his promise to do so, is not dependent on you or me.

It's dependent on himself. When he makes this promise with Abraham to make Abraham a great nation and all of these things, Yahweh engages in an old custom in which you would take an... If you entered into a contract, you and I entered into a contract, we would then take an animal and we cut the animal in half. And then we'd walk through the animal together,

as if to say, if one of us breaks the contract, then may we or I, the one who breaks it, become like this animal. Split. You know, dead, really. when Yahweh makes his contract with Abraham to be a great nation and so on and so on he puts Abraham into a deep sleep and then Yahweh walks through the animal by himself as if to say

I'm not making this covenant with Abraham on the grounds of Abraham's obedience, it's a covenant with myself and if I break it then may I be like the animals I make it with myself it's a proof that not a proof but it shows that God is

I am who I am Yeah, the reason for existence is in himself. The promise is kept in himself. It's confusing, but that's the way it works. That's the wonderful story of grace and Christmas. It's different than all other religions. Every other religion says you've got to get to God with your works. This one says God came to earth.

Not because we were good. But the opposite. Yeah, every other religion says, climb up the ladder. Christianity says the ladder is infinite. You can't climb it. but he can come down it and he does what a story it's different than all the other ones there's nothing that there's nothing that compares to it there's no equal there's no there is no

i go back to armageddon yeah go back forgive me no go ahead i'm raining uh screwing up his train of thought folks it's funny when you talk about it yeah it seems like such a hopeful positive Yeah. And what do I remember of a kid? Be scared. Be scared. Yeah. And you should repent because if you don't, you're going to hell.

Yeah. Or, you know, like I'm paraphrasing, but that's what's stuck in my brain for the longest time. Yeah. Armageddon's coming. No, it's not because you guys have been wrong for 2,000 years. Like, screw off. Yeah. I'm tired of hearing about it.

Yeah. Now I'm like, actually, Armageddon is like pretty great thing. Actually, for Christians, it sure is. Yeah. And for those, that's right, for those believers who are alive during, this is a whole different conversation again during tribulation those who are saved during it yep it's a great thing because they're saved finally from like you think of the evil in the world you have you have guys in hollywood who no doubt drink baby's blood i have no doubt about that you think of the evil that that has infected politics everyone's so sick and tired of it

and in this age we continue to pray you know against it of course absolutely and pray for the salvation of those who are lost no doubt. But there's coming a day in which their evil will become so unfathomably depraved. Man, we got to, like, I feel like, I know it's being hidden somewhat. I mean, in saying that, it's being hidden. In the last, what, five years, seven years, we've had Weinstein. Yeah. That's Hollywood.

Yeah. And at the first time, I was back in the Me Too movement. I'm like, all right, whatever. And then you started reading some of the stories. You're like, holy crap. This is awful. Yep. Then you had Epstein Island.

Yep. Okay. Yep. The evil of which still hasn't been exposed yet. Correct. Yeah. That ties in all these politicians and everything. Then you had P. Diddy and there's been more and more coming out about P.D.

Yeah. And you're like, honestly. And now Jay Z. Yeah. Well, J.Z. Yeah. LeBron James. Yep.

The evil is so saturated in society. And we don't, you can't fathom the evil. But again, you go back to the ecclesiasties. I know we've been reading it. What's new under the sun? Nothing. So you have all these Old Testament false prophets who engage in child sacrifice and they engage in the most occult of practices. And it's like, why should it be different today?

What? We're all of a sudden modern and civilized? No. No. No, it's just updated. Yeah. Yeah. It's.

Satan's the prince of the world. Be demonic and you'll get a pleasant position in the world. Correct. I'm, you know, firmly believe. That's why I was on talk true. And we talked about this, about the evil of the prosperity gospel. And actually, they got a lot of messages, apparently. I love Talk Truth.

You know, they're fantastic and they're great interviewers. But they got a lot of messages. People saying, oh, we're not sure about that. You know, what's wrong with prosperity gospel? It's demonic. That's the issue. Yeah, that's the problem. What's prosperity gospel?

Well, it's the idea that when you become a Christian, God will bless you monetarily or bless you with wealth and riches. It's huge in the States. Lots of the big mega church pastors, Joel Osteen and so on are prosperity preachers. And it's totally demonic. Because if it were true, then Jesus, Paul, the apostles, the disciples, all of them are false, because none of them prospered in this life as far as material wealth is concerned.

Paul was broke, ended up in prison, had nothing and was so destitute that he said, please Timothy bring me a blanket because I'm freezing. Jesus dies on a cross, penniless, no place to lay his head. The disciples are the same thing, but we're supposed to believe that when you become a believer, it's a magic road towards wealth and riches, as far as far as. as the world is concerned monetarily, that's nonsense. No, it's riches in a different way. Yeah, that's true. Of course, it's spiritual riches, no doubt. And the fullness of it will be fulfilled when Jesus comes back for the second time, the second Christmas. But until then, there's

certainly no promise that the believer becomes ultra wealthy and luxurious and rich. No, no, that's not right either. No, it's a different, the promise is different. Yeah. the promise is different. Certainly a believer can become. Oh yeah, there's no sin in that either. There's another issue with the Christian movement right now is there's actually a bit of a movement that says, unless you're poor, you're not quite righteous enough.

That's not true either. There's no sin in being rich. It's also not righteous to be poor. No, it's, you might have believers who are poor. Of course you have that. You have believers who are rich. Of course you have that. Neither of those things are moral or immoral in and of themselves.

The way you use those things determines that stuff. But no, there's no sin to be rich, no sin to be poor. You know, I was thinking back to Ruben Mays. So if you're new, if you just turned in the podcast now, you've got to go back a long time. I interviewed Ruben Mays. He's from North Battleford originally. His family was a part of the, oh, that'll be terrible.

The group of black families that came to Saskatcheworth. when they left the deep south. Sure. And out of that, Ruben Mays goes on to be like rookie of the year running back in the NFL. Yeah. Right? Think of that coming out of the battle. It doesn't even make sense.

Yeah. At the end, he said, oh, and I just want to say I believe in God. And I remember, you know, think of where we're sitting now and you go back, Sean, let's think about scrubbing that out. Yeah. And now I've been watching a lot of, like, successful athletes or even successful businessmen. Yeah. and how they talk about, you know, if it isn't for Jesus Christ, I don't have any of this. And I find that very interesting.

I'll praise to God. Yeah. And while I agree with everything I think you're saying. Yeah. It's weird. You know, on this side, I'm like, I just can't help feeling like there's big things in store for maybe not even, I assume a lot of the listeners, maybe all the listeners. certainly yourself sitting in that chair and sitting in this chair, I'm like,

I don't know, at times I feel like I got my hands on the wheel and I know where I'm going. But then I go back to the Abraham story and I'm like, you know, if I just let go for a bit, you might be surprised where the car takes you. And that could lead into what you're talking about with, I think, maybe I'm wrong, with like, you know, if God's at the helm,

you're going to be a millionaire. It's like, well, maybe not. I actually don't know that. No, it's exactly right. Other than I'll be a millionaire in probably the right things. And that could be financially too. I don't know.

That's a better. Well, what's the verse? What does it gain a man to, what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and yet forfeit his very soul? That's Luke 9, 23 to 26, I think. What a verse, yeah.

Everyone's, everyone expects Jesus to come to earth and to conquer Caesar and to set up a physical kingdom. That's what they wanted. That's what everybody expected. So you know the story right before his crucifixion. Jesus goes into Jerusalem,

and they go Hosanna, Hosanna, and they lay down the palm branches, and here comes the king, here comes Messiah, because they're expecting Jesus to physically overthrow the Roman government and then set up his own physical kingdom with him on the throne, his disciples beside him, and rule the world as it's meant to be ruled. And then, you know, a couple days in, they realized that Jesus isn't doing what we thought he was going to do, so we're done with him. Axem. Let's wipe him out. Let's excuse me.

He's attacking our ways of life. Yeah, he's doing exactly opposite what he said. He walks into Jerusalem, Jerusalem and the disciples go, wow, what a stunning temple. And Jesus goes, yeah, it's going to be torn down pretty quick here. It's totally opposite of what they expected. And so, too, what I mean to say is, when you become a Christian, yeah, prepare to be assailed with the unexpected. Absolutely. Maybe, you know, I get so sick and tired of these guys who make deals with God and they go, Lord, if you make me successful, I'll believe in you. You know, if you give me this one thing. thing, I'll put all my trust in faith. No, that's not. No, God isn't a God of deals like that.

That isn't the way he works. He isn't a God of trade. No, that isn't the, that isn't the rule. Paul's broke. stunningly, stunningly, you know, devout and brilliant. Peter, James, John. James is all the disciples, all the disciples are martyred, save for John, I guess, who is exiled. Yeah. It's like, that's not much prosperity as far as the world's concerned, impaled on pikes, crucified upside down, skinned alive, thrown off from buildings, beheaded. Yeah, that isn't... But that isn't the... Well, I mean, certainly, that's the people closest to Jesus

and sharing the good news. Yeah. In today's world, there's going to be a handful of those people who... And I don't know if we're still beheading. Right. I mean, I suppose in certain parts of the world we are. Yes, that's right. That's right.

But like here in Canada, beheading might be a bit extreme. Yeah, unless you're a baby. be sure yeah yeah that's right and and so you go like i don't know yeah i don't even know what i'm like i i hear you i know what you mean but at the same time i'm like you know oh we have it easier like you know it's we are in a blessed age to be a christian yes you there's no doubt about that you look at the stories of the the old martyrs and the persecutions that they had to endure versus what you know most of us endure right now it's we are we are in a vastly different different age. And so, to whom much is given, much is required. When we have this protracted age of

freedom of religion and freedom to worship, to go to church and so on, we better use it. Yeah, because we're going to be held accountable for that. God's going to ask us, what exactly did you do with the freedom that I gave you? Did you use it or did you not? And the Christian church and the early church had to be persecuted because it needed to be tested under fire. to become refined like gold. You know, you burn off dross. So too at the church had to be put through the fire so that it was only the staunchest of believers

who built up that foundation, who built up the church, right, with Christ as its utter foundation. And now we've lost that. I'm not saying persecution in and of itself is a good thing. Of course, you know, it's terrible to be tortured and suffer.

But the church sure isn't as strong as it was. It's not even close. It sits in a bad state. It's in a desperate state. lots of weakness, not a lot of conviction. Men and women are happy to have their ears tickled. With simple words, they love the prosperity gospel. They love the simple messages of love your neighbor as yourself,

you know, fruit to the spirit, have some self-control, and no one wants to confront the reality that Christianity is a religion that's led by a lion. It's a fierce religion, very fierce, and you have to go through a complete transformation that's difficult and it means your friends and family will hate you for it and they'll despise what you believe and they'll despise the fact that you know that they're not saved and as it stands they're not they're not righteous enough in god's eyes to inherit heaven or eternal life

and so they have to repent too and that message is offensive men hate the truth women hate the truth children hate the truth all people naturally hate the truth because the truth is christ and the proof that we hate the truth is that we crucified him in our depraved state date. And so this isn't if you want an easy religion, Christianity isn't your religion. If you want an easy eternity Christianity is, but

if you want an easy religion now, Christianity isn't that. And I think that's proven by the Christmas story. Our Savior was literally hunted by Herod the moment he was born. An angel appears to Joseph and says, get up and go because otherwise Christ is getting wiped out

quickly. Yeah, this isn't a, this isn't a religion full of stuffies and fluff. Not as it, you know, people, people say it's not a religion, it's a relationship, but that's beside, that's beside the point. I, um, shout it to Uncle Bob, if you ever listen to us. He probably never will, but Uncle Bob is a man, probably, man, he's got to be closing in on an 80. Regardless, he traveled the world, 100, I forget what the number was.

I'm just going to say 100 countries. But you can't get the, and it was just back 50 years ago. So it was, you know, he's going through India. Yeah. In Australia, New Zealand and all these different countries. And anyways, I was talking to him one day. Yeah. So why is it that, first we were talking about politicians.

What's wrong with our politicians today? Yeah. He said, oh, they lacked vision. And he was just a vision of where to go to, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. And then I said, we got talking about some story. and he was talking about he was talking about

running into a friend in the middle of nowhere over in Australia and the odds of that and everything else and the way he told it was very just a great storytelling that's it?

Yeah, yeah. What is it about the Newman's and the Reeves that we like a story like that? And he goes, oh, we're romantics. We like the way, you know, like the world works, you know, how it pieces together, the intricate design.

and so I hear you everything you said I'm like I hear you and yet in my life it's like you know our um is uh

I don't know there a lot of bad things in video games or something sure but I grew up playing them and I'm still sitting here and I'm like God uses what he's got to get you to where you need to get to

and the people that I that I just gravitate towards are the ones with these romantic stories. Actually, I got, um, um, uh, oh man, I'm, I'm releasing a legacy interview I did. Okay.

Because he sat right where you're sitting. Yeah. And, you know, he was, like, his daughter wanted a legacy interview. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. We'll get it done. Yeah.

And we walked in and we sat and had this two-hour conversation. Yeah. Where he talks about how he found God and how it happens. Yeah. I'm like, I didn't plan this. Yeah. This is strange. And at the end, I'm basically.

say, I think this is more for me than for you. And this has happened to me now a handful of times. Now, do I go looking for it? Or is this way of, you know, some days I can be dense and I'm irritated? And, you know, I don't know. I like to believe that God's like, no, we're going to try this way to get through to Sean because Sean's being a moron right now. And then I listen to now, I'm like, man.

Now people are going to get to hear it because I asked his daughter and asked him if he would, if he'd be okay if I released it. So that's coming out. Yeah. And I talk about the homeless guy. up probably a year ago. And I talk about all these different things. And I'm like, Harold Stephan.

Yeah. You know, one of, one of, he's got stories, yeah. He's got a story that he talks about me in an angel. Or I at least call it angel. I can't remember if you, Harold, I don't mean to put words in your mouth. And I'm like, the story of Jesus is beautiful. Yeah. Because of what it symbolizes and what it means.

Of course. And, you know, you go, you know, well, it's just a story. I don't believe that. Right. I don't. Yeah. And the proof I have. have is my life and how things have been playing out my life, which only means it's proof for me.

Yeah. Because nobody, you can listen to my romantic stories about him, be like, they're just stories. Yeah. And you go, why do I not see that? That's right. I don't know. That Andy Woods, that guy that he's just brilliant, he's a scholar. He won't even use the word story because he thinks it, it invokes too much of a sense of it

being fictional. Fictional. And it's not. So you're right. The, you know, the message of Christmas is wonderful and the reason for Christmas. What did you say? was it the lessons from Christmas? You just said it two seconds ago.

I was in a blacked out. Whatever it was. The point being, the point being, you know, the story of Jesus is wonderful, yes. The message of Jesus is wonderful, of course. The story is beautiful because it is. Like, it is real. It goes back to philosophizing. So I've been in this debate with some different people about, you know,

the stories in the Bible are great. Yeah. And that's where it ends. I'm like, and then I'm like, but I think they're real. Yeah, that's right. I believe them to be real. Right, they're not just great. And my problem is I keep running into the Harold Steffin of the world.

Right. Who has a story where you're just like, I don't care who you are. You listen to that. You can say it's coincidence. You can say it's all these things. And I'm like, I don't believe that, not for a second. Yeah. But the reason I don't believe that, or I believe in Harold's story, is I've had a similar one.

Yeah. Where you can listen to me and you can go, shine as high as a kite. He had no idea what was happening. And he, this, I'm just tack on 12 things. Yeah. And you write it off. Yeah. But eventually, eventually, maybe I'm wrong on this.

The person who writes things off, eventually you can have something that's so irrefutable happening in your life. Yeah. If I write that off, I'm just going down the road of somewhere else. Yeah, that's what I know is that in, I think it's Romans 1, 16 to 17. Actually, just that whole Romans 1. The message of it is, all are without excuse. Man will say, I didn't have a number.

proof at the judgment. You didn't show me who I was God or who you were God and God will show him a display of all the times that he interacted and evidently revealed himself and man rejected. So, you know, people always, that's a good question. We often hear what about those who never heard of the gospel? What happens to them at the judgment? And the answer is God is infinitely just. He is the foundation, he is justice itself. We base our understanding of justice on him. So what happens to those men will not be unjust by definition because the judgment will come from God. And what I do know is that all are without excuse. There is some proof. There will be enough proof for a man to either accept or reject salvation in Christ in this life. So you just said, can you say the line again from

scripture or roughly? All, well, all are without excuse. All or without excuse. That's right. That's right. And what you're talking about is that throughout a man's life or woman's life. Yeah. there's going to be moments in time where God reveals himself. Who knows how exactly? But we don't know how. That's right. And I don't mean act like I know how. That's right.

And the ultimate revelation is Jesus. Right. Yes. And yet, here we sit. Yeah. Thousands of years past Jesus. Yeah. Is he still revealing himself?

Right. Oh, Almighty God? Yes. Oh, yeah. I think you walk outside and look at a snowflake and I see Almighty. So you're different than me. That's right. I don't see a snow.

I don't, I'm not the guy going, Oh, look at the snowflake. It's beautiful. Right. Sure. I've had the Harold Stephan interactions. Sure. And that's by all means.

Absolutely. Men are different. But Almighty reveals himself in just the right way. So that for each individual. Correct. That's absolutely true. And you know what's weird? Then the interactions we get, we get, well, I didn't happen that way.

And so then you start to rest. Like, whoa. Yeah. Right? Like, we're all different. Yeah. We all see the world different. We all interact different.

We all have different experiences. And, well, for some people, traumas and some people, life has just been so smooth and on it went. And a whole mix bag. Go listen to Sean Ryan for Pete's sake. Absolutely. Listen to some of his stories. And go like, how the heck do you? Just, yeah.

Or look at Paul. So how does Paul see Jesus? Right. He persecutes Stephen, kills him. And then Christ reveals himself as Paul's on the road to Damascus. But that story is very different than Jesus' revelation to Peter and James and the devil. disciples, right? That's a very different story. But both men, or all these men and women are fervent stewards of the gospel all the same. This is why you have to read the, well, I don't know.

This is why I enjoy reading the Bible. Yeah. Because at different times, you're like, I don't get that story at all. And then you'll run into, you know, my favorite story was Saul becoming Paul. I'm like, it's fascinating. Oh my goodness. What a story is right. For me, sticks out. Yeah, it does. Right? Like he's basically the biggest persecutor of the Christians. He is the biggest bad on the earth at that time. That's what he says in Romans, or not Romans, in 1st Timothy 1, 15 to 16. Paul says, I was literally the worst of the worst.

And the reason that Christ chose me, the worst of the worst, is so that in me the worst of sinners, Christ's patience might be revealed to all those who would believe in him to be saved from their sins. So Paul says, I was the worst. Christ chose me to be saved so that everyone else would say, well, I'm bad, but if God can save Paul, he can save anyone. Yeah, that's the story. And that's what the scripture says. Isn't it fantastic? And that's the whole story of scripture too.

It's funny to me because like I think a cowboy preacher shout out to Joshua Allen, right? I think of all these different characters who have come to Christian in their own way. Yeah, yeah. No way to me is the same. No. I mean, might be similar. Yeah, of course. But no way is the same. Yeah, some people don't give much care for scientific arguments. Others do. Some care much more about moral arguments or just about the truth of the history itself. And, but at the end of the day, all that matters is do you believe in Christ or not? Jesus will not ask us at the judgment. There are two different judgments, right? There are, there's the Great White Throne judgment for the unbelievers and there's the Bemis seed for believers. So there are not like we're all together at the Great White Throne. No, that's different. There are those who have to go through a judgment and are unsafe. there are those who go through a judgment and are saved. It's a different judgment, right? It's a happy judgment in a sense,

whereas the Great White Thrones is a scary one, of course, and with a horrible tragic ending for those who are unsaved. Anyway, all that to say, it's not as though we're going to be asked, how did you come to faith? That'll determine your level of salvation. Nah. No, but I understand why testimonials are so important.

They're critical. Because you could listen to Tanners or to mine or to whoever's. See, I resonate with that. I understand. That's right. Of course. Frank Peretti for me. Yeah.

The way he wrote his book, the way he describes it. Excellent. Just spoke to you. Yeah. Yep. And I always think of you with Chesterton or C.S. Lewis, all these academics, if I may. Yeah. And I'm like, there's a reason why you're like, this is brilliant.

Yeah. It is brilliant. Yeah. I might say that. But I don't read. Well, that's a lie. You gave me. Screw tape.

Screw tape. That was a good, yeah. That one almost I didn't get through because it was so close to home. Yeah, that one's heavy. That one's a brilliant sat-down. Unless it's never happened. Then you might read it and go like, I don't know. Yeah, it was interesting.

That's right. Your point on testimonies is well taken, because when you read actually just the New Testament and the prime proclamations of Jesus and his lordship, it's just testimony. You know, like, we're very caught up in these big theological arguments today in debates and discussions and fine so be it. But when you read the act,

when you read those stories of Paul going to Felix and Peter and someone preaching. It's literally, here's who I was, here's who Jesus is, and here's what he did in my life. You should believe in him too. So Paul goes, I was very bad, and then Jesus came to me and revealed himself to me. I believed in him, and now I'm working for him. Look at my difference. Look at my transformation. And that's why when those Christians, when we Christians do believe in Christ, in part,

we have such an obligation to change our ways. But what you just said there was brilliant. Yeah. That can go for any person. Yeah, it can. This is how I was? Yeah. This is how he revealed himself.

This is who I am now. And this is who I am now. That's a testimony. And this is where I'm walking to and this is the good things that are happening. It's all it is. That's a testimony. Don't need anything more than that. No.

So who was I before Jesus? Well, myself, I loved the law. I mean, I was saved at a young age. But, you know, and so I was, was saved. I know I was saved, even though I certainly wasn't as dedicated to Christian as I ought to have been. But when I was younger, I loved the law, and I was focused on perfection, the legalism of the law, which is a stumbling stone, says Paul. I love to try and do my very best, and I hated when I failed, and it led to this terrible cycle of discouragement and, you know,

Dom's depression, right? You'd be like, I failed in this area. I'm such a bad person. But then, when I really started studying the scripture as it, you know, as I ought to have been studying it for a long time before that, the grace of Christ was revealed, particularly in Galatians. And it totally changed my understanding of life. Because then I said to myself, wait a second, Christ has kept perfection for me. He is perfection. I don't need to keep perfection myself, because it's been, it's been done for Jesus, or by Jesus for me, and so I can live life freely. And all of a sudden, all of that fear and that pressure to try and keep the law perfectly washed away. It's wonderful. And now I can live life as is meant to be lived. So, and that's a very good. So, that's a

very one-minute testimony. Who was I before? A man who struggled very deeply with trying to be perfect. And it led to, you know, it was destructive. Your spirit was in anguish all the time. Who is Jesus? A man who keeps perfection for me. Who am I now? A man who's able to live freely knowing that I don't have to be perfect. I am perfect. Just I'm not, you know, but Christ who lives in me is. And so I get to dance around and have joy and all of those things that I didn't get to before because I was so trying to find perfection myself. Once again, it's the story of Christmas. I celebrate it because a man's come to earth for me to save me from sin and to give me this perfection I could never attain on my own. What's a better story than that? And there isn't one.

Isn't it brilliant? It's fantastic. Yeah. So your testimony is fascinating too. Who was shown before? Convoy, goes to convoy. Something changes. Yeah, but if I were to if I were to do it, would, similar to you, before, I would argue that being a good human being was enough. Yeah. And you're not alone in that argument. Right. Like, I don't, I don't, I don't know, go to the worst parts of humanity. I don't kill people. Yeah. I don't take women against their will. Right. You know, I don't molest kids. I'm a happily married guy. Upstanding member of your community. Blah, blah, blah, blah, right? You can kind of go down there. Of course. but

but what COVID I was telling myself a bit of a lie you know I was lying to myself yeah it's one of the things

that Peterson is reading his book really you know hit me on the head with you know at least don't lie to yourself yeah and you know

when I look back at it I'm like man I'm married a good woman because if it had been me on the other side of what I was doing right I'm not saying it would have

left, but I certainly would have been a little angrier, or I probably would have addressed it way sooner and on and on and on. Yeah. And so who was Sean before all this? Well, all the bad things I do now, I did tenfold, a hundredfold worse, you know, and I speak strictly, specifically to drinking and just swearing and my conduct. Yeah. But I showed up on time.

Yeah, yeah. Went to work. Oh, yeah. People enjoyed being around me. I was a good guy. Sure. You know, I'm a good guy. Isn't that enough?

I remember getting in an argument with my mom. Yeah. Because I'm like, you're treating me like I do cocaine every night. Yeah, yeah. Like, what is wrong with what I, and now I think about that argument. I'm like, I'd like to have, I would like, instead of my mother being there, I just like to, this is why I like time trials. Yeah, yeah, sure. I wish this Sean could go back and have that argument because I feel like we'd probably come to blows.

Yeah. And I just think you're being an idiot. Yeah. And like, you can see it, but you're not willing to like open your eyes to fully seeing it. Right. So the thing that happened with the podcast. Yeah. I pulled on this little thread.

Yeah. And the thread was simple. In the meantime, while I was dealing with, you know, all the sports and everything, yeah. COVID was an absolute blessing. Yeah. In that, the little thread I was trying to pull on was, like, how does the world really work? Yeah.

I remember asking Byron Christopher, and another one that stood out to me was Judy Reeves. Judy Reeves is the one who looks at me and it's like she could bear into my soul or see into my soul. She's just like, you're looking for something. I'm like, uh. I've listened to that interview, it doesn't matter. Most people, to them, it probably means nothing. To me, it's like it is the beginning. Yeah.

And Byron Christopher, I just expected this old news journalist to be like, oh, yeah, it's like, you know, you have a stage, and they pulled a curtain open, and he didn't say that. So you just started pulling on this thing. Yep. And the pulling led me to talking about COVID. Yeah. And, I mean, going through that, led me to Ottawa.

Yeah. And then in Ottawa, I was confronted by things that I can't put, back in a box. Yeah. I tried. Yeah. Really tried. Sure.

But once they were evident. Yeah. What are you going to do? Well, then I didn't need all the substances to see it. Yeah. I saw it for itself. Yeah. And then I really needed something because it's like, well, what are you going to do?

How do you put that back in the box? Yeah. And since the big guy came on my side. Yeah. You know, it's all gone away. It's been the most peace I've ever had in life. I didn't think it was humanly possible. Now, do I screw up?

Yeah. Go back to Moses in the, in the, Yeah. It's like, I got that. I know it's there. Yeah. And I'm still a moron. I know it is funny.

You and I both. Trust me, you're not alone in that. So like, you know, I don't know. I don't know where that goes for people. Just that we all have a different walk we're on. And sometimes we can be our hardest critic. Sometimes, you know, you can lie to yourself because I, you know, at times I still do that. I'm like, ugh, right?

That's why you need good for men specifically. Yeah. Need good men around you, to call you on your shit. Oh, you do. So why? Okay, so then why? It's a good question. You and I, you know, as Christians, why do we still struggle with sin?

We're saved. We know Jesus is here. What causes us to still engage in that which we hate? Well, because sin isn't, um, sin isn't go murder someone, right? Sin comes in many forms. Yeah, it does. And many pleasurable forms. Yeah, that's true.

That's usually the way sin works. It looks so good until you consummate the act. And for some people that's, you know, I'll stick with men. For some people, that's women. That's sex. Yeah, that's right. Wouldn't you know it? I married the love of my life.

Right. I find her more attractive today than the day I met her. Yeah. And I, you know, she asked me this question last night. Yeah. Do I ever annoy you? I'm like, uh, 2% of the time, yes. Maybe a little less than that.

But everybody annoys me at that 2%. Yeah. So like she's in the whatever percentile where she is amazing. Yeah. And I can't speak highly enough of her. Yeah. I'm attracted to her. Yeah.

So I don't have the problem. Yeah. Of like, oh, I want to go race off and go fool around with another woman. Sure. I don't want to have that. But I do enjoy a festive scotch with my brothers. And when you read about drunkenness, I'm like, oh, that's interesting, because there's a gray line there, isn't there?

Yeah, yeah, that's right. And so you go, there's things that all of us different wrestle. So I would say sin is a very blanket statement on a lot of life. Well, what is sin? going against what God wants what God ordains or something like that? Go even farther. Say it's without God.

It's just the absence of God. Absence of God? Yep, go without God. Yeah, that's what it is. It's a definition. It's, uh, we tend to think sin is an action. I don't think it is. I think sin is a state of being.

It's the state of being without God. Absence of God. It's just as you have light and dark. Dark is just the absence of light. sin is just the absence of God. And so when you engage in those practices that you and I both hate sin, what we're doing is we're manifesting that absence. So I murder another man.

I'm manifesting the absence of God in my life in that particular area, where I am, God is not here. Because it's sinful. Yeah. So when Adam and Eve's sin, what happens? They're separated from God. They're absent of God. That's what sin is.

and it's also why no matter what action you do you can't get back to him on your own because sin isn't an action and it's not one that's cancelled out by a good action no it's the absence of God and so you need God to come to you yeah

and that logic doesn't quite follow but it's true I should phrase it differently yeah so so okay so then all that to say the reason that you and I still struggle with sin is because there are two natures within us now there's the spiritual which is in Christ and is saved and it wants to do good. But your flesh and my flesh, the body is still corrupted.

And the proof of that is that our body still dies. That's still broken. So there are two natures engaged in a civil war right now. You know, one says let's do what's Christian. The other says let's do what's Christian. The flesh says let's do what's bad. The spirit says let's do what's good. And the two jostle for position.

And it's a fight. And the only way to see that this spirit gains an advantageous position over this flesh is by reading the scriptures. praying, seeking Almighty God, and putting your faith in Jesus Christ. That's it. So the old Sean says, like most of us, I'm a good person, do good works. But Isaiah says all the good works that we do are like chaff in God's sight. They're like dirty rags.

So it's very good to help an old lady cross the street. That's a good work. It's very good to scrape your car for your wife before she heads off to work. That's a good work. But in the eyes of God, it's not as though those works amount to perfection, which is what is required to be with him. Because he's perfect. He can't dwell with sin because sin is where he's not. It's a logical contradiction. He can't be where he can't be where he is not. It doesn't make any sense.

No, that doesn't make any sense at all. So sin is the state of God not being there. Yeah? And the only way to solve that is to have God with you, obviously. So the question is, how do we get God to be with us? The answer is he brings himself to us. there is nothing we can do. We can't do good works to get to him because Isaiah says there are no good works apart from God. God is goodness itself. That doesn't make sense.

Yeah, well, okay. Because in that case, I would have had God with me before two years ago. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And certainly was he around or guaranteed, but Sean wanted nothing to do with him? No, that's right.

Yeah, because, yeah, you're in a state of sin. That's right. So God's omnipresent and stuff, of course. But if you refuse to have him, you know, if you refuse to be with him, then he won't invade you, if that makes sense. Yeah, and so you'll stay in sin. So the question is, yeah, how do you then be with God? How do I have peace with God?

I think Billy Graham wrote a book. I think that's what he called peace with God. How do I have peace with God? How do I lose this sin? What's the answer? Well, if sin is God, if sin is the absence of God, then I'm not sinful if God is with me. How is God with me?

Well, the story of Christmas. And salvation. He saves me from sin because he enters into my life. Am I dumb to think then? Yeah, enters, because I just think, I just, I mean, only to paint a visual of it, folks, I just opened the door and invited him out. Perfect.

That's the phrase he uses. That's a very good metaphor. Yeah, thank you, metaphor. I knock on the door, and that's a very good metaphor. he says, I knock on the door. Yeah. That's right. So, like, that's, the problem with thinking of, the problem with thinking of sin like it's an

action. Yeah, is that it tends to make us think if we do good actions, we cancel out the sin, which isn't true. Not according to the scripture. Could you imagine stealing $10,000 from a bank? Great. The net, but every subsequent time you go to the bank. If I'm going to rob a bank, I'm going to go for a number a little higher than that.

Yeah, sure. But, you know, let's suppose it's, There's not a lot of inflation, so 10 grand gets you a lot these days. So you go to the bank, you steal 10 grand, but every successive time you go to that bank, you act like a regular customer, mild-mannered, very polite to those at the counter, deposit and withdraw your money properly, and so on. Does that cancel out the first bad action? The robbery?

Of course not. You have to pay a punishment for that crime, right? So no matter how many good works you do after the sin has been committed, the sin has still been committed, It has to be paid for somehow, and you can't pay it. Now I'm talking in the Christian sense, you can't pay it, you're not perfect. Yeah, you can't pay.

I mean, you can die and pay for it, but then you sure aren't saved, you know, that's the, I mean, the punishment, the wages of sin is death. So you can, I guess, pay it, but you certainly can't pay it and be with God. The punishment for sin is to be without God. It's to die.

But what if someone took that punishment in your place so that it was wiped off your ledger, then you could be with God and inherit eternal life with him. Wow. And that's the story of salvation. So you are no longer, even though you and I sin and do actions which are separate from God, lie, steal, right?

You say, I don't murder. It's like, yeah, but we hate people. And that's what Jesus says, that's murder, have impure thoughts in our hearts, whatever it might be, even though we still sin, we're no longer in a state of sin the spirit's been cleansed from death it's now alive in Jesus Christ

so the body is sinful that's why it has to die but the spirit is no longer sinful because Christ is there it's incredible wow you know it's such a happy like so many Christians are so dower these days it's righteous to be sad

righteous to have this look on her face of oh I'm yeah no it's like no no we're a religion of joy well I don't know I think your religion or we're relationship whatever you want to call it of adventure or an adventure because yeah because well I mean I like a good story yeah I realize it implies that it's it's not real so do I agree with you and the the the the the Bible is one heck of a story folks right anything any anytime you think you're you're getting to the oh yeah I've seen no then then Tanner comes on the podcast and he says three more I go oh I got to go, huh, got to go think about that.

Yeah. You know, and then, well, there's just things like, yeah, there's so much in there. So much. And I don't know. I've been thinking a lot about it because, you know, like, I'm like, what did I, what did I do? You know, I got asked the other day. Yeah. Like, what did you do in order to, you know, I don't know, experience the things you've experienced?

Yeah. I have no idea. I actually open the, you know, I say open the door. I just, you know. You just did it. Um, what's, what's the, uh, what's the word I'm looking for? Men have a problem with giving over control. What's the word for that?

Surrender. Thank you. With surrendering. Yeah. And I have, there's no way to manufacture this. There's no way to be like, I can't do it without you. Yeah. I don't think there's any way to, to know that until you're at despair.

Yeah. And that's the purpose of the wild, the wilderness. Like, no, I'm not a therapist. I'm not a theologian, but based on how. how hard you've worked over these last how many years and knowing, you know, just even our relationship, no doubt you've gone through wilderness over the last time long.

We all do, though. We all, and that, right. And our brains say, wilderness, now we've got to go out and be all alone by yourself. That's not the way that... No. Now, for some, it might. It might.

Maybe you want to take... tempted in the wild like Jesus. Yeah, you want to follow the exact thing. Fine. For most of us, that's not how this works. No. And once again, my story might not... go on to your story very well. Maybe you different ways. But the wilderness for all of us.

Wilderness is just a metaphor or a visual that you can be like, oh, I understand. But my wilderness happens in Calgary, Alberta, surrounded by people. Sure, sure. Very strange. Usually the most lonely place, to be honest are the big cities with lots of people. Very strange. Very powerful. So what's the purpose of a wilderness? Dead sober. Yeah. So, okay, so Moses goes to the wild, to the wilderness, midian. And of course, this is, I mean, anyways goes there nothing on either any side rocks rocks rocks rocks nothing

you know the scripture does he just goes to the wilderness emidian and so he's in a desolate place desolate place but then the scripture ends the story with a very interesting

point where it says and Moses stumbled upon a well or he sat down by a well and that's it and then of course it goes on to how he saves some women and so on and then meets his jethro Anyways, whatever. Goes to a well, he sits down by a well.

That's fascinating. And so I did the other day a study on just that passage, just that verse, and he sat down by a well. And here's what I came, here's what my conclusion was. We all go to the wilderness. Nothing on either side of us. Desolate. You know, I look to the left.

Where am I supposed to go? I don't know. I don't even know what way is north. I'm so confused. What am I supposed to do? But the purpose of taking all of this structure and security away from us. There's nothing around us.

What are we supposed to do? Is to, oh, look, show us a well. The middle of nowhere, there's a well. How strange. You're in the middle of nowhere, there's nothing that's alive, and you see a well. And what's the first thing that comes to mind

when you see that well? Someone built it. Obviously, somebody's here. Someone has to be here. There's a well. Wells just don't magically appear in the wilderness. It'd be very calming. Right.

Be very calming. Someone's here. someone's built this well there are other people around there is someone other than myself okay so then I took it farther and then I said

what's the biggest wilderness I can think of the largest wilderness there's nothing around us on any side left right up or down well the universe yeah I looked at the universe and I see a huge wilderness nothing

survives you know planets are hostile stars are hostile gases are hostile are hostile, the universe kills me in a second, but then I stumble across the well, or a well, one well, I stumble across the earth. Yeah, it's the ultimate well. And I see that all of a sudden it's habitable to life, allows me to live there. Someone obviously built it, this strange little planet in the middle of the cosmos, billions of light years yards, probably maybe trillions of light years large, who knows? It's the ultimate wilderness and here's this well. And for me,

that's a proof that someone else is here. Someone's put this extraordinary thing, this thing which shouldn't exist where it does, where it is. There shouldn't be a well in the wilderness. It's a wilderness. There's no water. There's no life.

And yet there is because someone put it there. There shouldn't be an earth in the middle of a universe. Nothing that lives in the universe. Planets aren't habitable to life. Right? And yet there is. There's this planet which allows you and I to live. Hence the wilderness.

And then, of course, you can take that to a micro level, too. You have to come to the end of yourself to see that you need somebody else. The wilderness is good in that respect. It's hard. It's difficult. It's usually very, it's a trial to go through it. But it's meant to demonstrate to you that you can't do it on your own. Who is going to provide for you in the wilderness? You can't do it.

What are you going to do? Find food. Rock? No, you need a manna from heaven. You need a miracle. It forces you to have faith. In that sense, it's excellent. and that wilderness might happen in Calgary, might happen in Lloyd, might happen in Asia,

might happen in Africa, who knows. But it's a wilderness. And every man who has to do something for Almighty or who is used mightily by Almighty goes through it. Abraham, Joseph, Daniel, Moses, David, the prophets, Elijah, Jesus, Paul, on and on and on. Keeps going. And into modern day, John Bunyan. William Tyndale, Bonhoeffer, all experienced a wilderness,

heavy wilderness. And the wilderness to me, once again, I think the word wilderness paints this picture of trees and you can take it as whatever. But the next thing I think of is physical. Like I can go knock on a tree, right? And I can feel it and I can start a fire.

That's right. I can have warmth and whatever. And my wilderness wasn't that at all. all. That at all. Right. It was of something supernatural.

Yeah. That doesn't make sense to me. No. Even as I say it, I'm like, I don't know. It doesn't make any sense. Yeah. And I always blamed it on. And it didn't, you know, it's funny.

I'd have to go back and see how many days. Because I always find the 40 days interesting. And it happens all over scripture. What's up with the 40 days thing? And then I think, well, I bet if I were to go map out my time frame, how many days was it? Like, you know, who knows? Moses, 40 days in the wilderness. 40 years.

Okay, so Moses, 40 years in the wilderness. 40 days up on Sinai, twice. Elijah, 40 days in the wilderness. So there's something to it. Lots of 40s. Lots of 40s. Jesus, so obviously 40 days. Like, remember, Christ is the all, like, think of his wilderness.

He is the king of heaven. He comes to earth. What could be more of a wilderness than that? I can't think of anything. How? Come from perfection, and he stays perfect, but of course he's almighty God in heaven, in heaven, and he comes down to our broken and sinful earth. In the form of a human baby who's reviled by his neighbors and friends is subject to Roman occupation and Roman rule, watches as he's mocked and ridiculed.

Mothers tell their children to turn your face away, don't look at that man, don't stare at him. Probably not very tall, right? Five foot something probably. Nothing extraordinary about him. That's a wilderness. I mean, you know, the wilderness that all of us experience is difficult too, no doubt about it, but it's not like that.

And then the ultimate, the accumulation of that wilderness is the cross. That's a wilderness. Because you have the Christ coming to Earth first, leaving perfection in heaven to come to this sinful planet. That's a wild. But then you go to the cross and you are separated from your father. who can like you can't

fathom this you know think of the wilderness I just it's that doesn't that that's something where you can't philosophize it what are you going to compare it to

you can't there's nothing to say of it except it's the most ultimate wilderness that you can imagine because you know you go to the wilderness to discover that God is there

that's why we go that's what we're forced there it's discover that even in the midst of nothing there's God. Even if you don't realize you're careening closer and closer to the wilderness. Right. That's what you'll have to come wrestle with. But then Jesus goes to the cross, the ultimate wilderness,

and he discovers that God is not there. Why have you forsaken me? Wow. What a thought, hey. So it's a different wilderness. Because we go to find, well, actually God brings us out there to hear him. And when Christ goes, he finds it. Where is he?

Now, Christ is quoting Psalms 22 when he says that, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me at the cross? It's a scripture. But it's when, yeah, the father has to turn his face away from Jesus. Exact all of his vengeance upon him. Because at that moment, right, your sin and mine are set on to Jesus. And so when Christ is taking our punishment on the cross, it's as though you and I are on the cross, if that makes sense.

All of the sins we commit are pushed onto him, transferred onto him, so that God can execute judgment upon them, you know, fulfill the conditions of justice, and then wipe them off our ledger. Amazing. That's a wilderness. Yeah. Something that none of us will ever experience.

Well, you will experience it if you don't believe in Christ. That's hell. That's maybe a good definition of hell. I mean, hell is, you know, it's a place and it's the separation of God, but you might describe it as a wilderness and wilderness. where there is no God. Suffering and anguish. You look and look.

So right now God brings us to the wild to show us that he's there to speak to us. And I wonder how, I think that's a wonderful way to put it. And I wonder the thing that has plagued my mind since the street preacher in Ottawa because I think back to that. Yeah.

And I go, I wonder how many people are walking aimlessly through the wilderness. I put it in parentheses. Yeah. Thinking there's no God. Yeah. But there is.

Because the other thing that messed with my brain. Yeah. When I came home and started reading and everything else, was the night of the dark soul. Yeah. And the fact that God's there the entire time. Yeah.

That's a mind. Yeah, he's there the entire time. Now, even with the hell thing, I'm going to be careful to not philosophize it. I don't want to spiritualize it. Sure. Hell is a place. But I'm just trying to,

how do you describe that place? Well, Jesus uses flames and anguish and all of those things. But it's Christmas. In the story of it is that we don't have to go there. Yeah. We did before. That was our just punishment. That was totally just.

And it is totally just. But now we don't have to. We don't have to endure that. We get to have her and hair and turn alive. Yeah. All I would hope for people is that in whatever form of the wilderness they're in, yeah. They run into the, you know, the thing that just.

Yeah. Find the well. Yeah. That's right. The well. Yeah. And then you go, someone built it. Who built it?

Reveals himself. Like what a, so, okay, so there's a, I'm rambling, but it's a good story. Here's one you got to read is Elijah versus the prophets at Mount Carmel. This is my favorite story in the entire scripture, save of course for the gospels. In the Old Testament, this is my favorite story so Ahab you know

King Ahab and Jezabel we use her name a lot as a synonym for bad leaders they're ruling Israel and they're very bad and they have a lot of bad prophets on their side like you know evil prophets

and there's one good prophet Elijah and a very famous prophet right and they're vying for these prophets are vying for position and control and they say you know

they say in essence bail is supreme he's the god gods and Elijah says yeah right he goes let's go to the mountain let's go to carmel we'll have a and we'll have an old school like a competition really

and the competition says you build an altar you prophets of bail hundreds and hundreds of you call down fire using bail from heaven and if you can light up the altar your god's real I'll do the same and we'll see which God brings down the fire so the prophets

of bail build their altar and they dance and they do their witchcraft and of course nothing they can't and Elijah's mocking them as he's doing so. It's like, maybe he's in the bathroom. It's a great story. They fail. So then Elijah builds his altar, a very simple altar, a very humble altar, and he douses

the altar with water. So it's wet. Praise to Almighty and sure enough. Fire from heaven comes down, cracks the altar, envelops the entire thing, proving that Yahweh, of course, is the god of gods. And so from this, the people of Israel go, oh, we've made a mistake. The prophets of Bail aren't true. And so Elijah says, yeah, that's right.

Now go kill them. They do. They kill, they chased them down and they wipe out the prophets. All that to say. Elijah wins this mighty victory for the Lord. Or the Lord wins it through Elijah. Elijah goes back and Jezebel says to him, if I'm not dead, no, sorry, if you're not dead by tomorrow

for this egregious evil that you've done Elijah, then may I be like the prophets that you just killed? Basically, if I don't kill you by tomorrow, then I'm going to die myself. And so Elijah is terrified. So he runs, which is weird because he just won this huge victory, But anyways, he's scared. And so he runs to the wilderness, to the wild for 40 days.

And God sustains him there and says, you know, why are you running and so on? Anyways, all that I mean to say is Elijah's running. He goes to a mountain and God talks to him. Doesn't talk to him in a storm that he brings, though. No, doesn't talk to him in a mighty wind or fire. No, he talks to him in a whisper. Very small little crevice in the mountain, this humble little hush. And then he speaks to Elijah profoundly.

So to hear what the wilderness. Men are looking and looking for this huge, massive revelation. And that's come in the scripture. But it's like, just, just quiet. And just listen. Yeah. Well, give me eyes to see and ears to hear. Because for some of us, in my case, it's huge revelation.

Yeah. It's huge. Yeah, sure. It could have been the quietest of quiet. Yeah. Still huge revelation. Oh, yeah, it is. And it is.

That's just it. It's just as profound. That's right. You just have to have eyes to see and ears to hear Yeah, and that only comes from Christ Yes That only comes from the scripture Man

Merry Christmas everyone Merry Christmas You know My hope is You know Who knows where the podcast goes Who knows where Tanner's life goes But my hope is

You know As time goes on These Christmas Podcasts That I started six years ago Because a guy working Yeah Wanted to keep them going

I don't think he, it started with Lance Ward, you know, hockey, Florida Panthers, Anaheim Ducks, you get the point. Yeah. And to be sitting here now talking about this, I'm sure if you were listening back then, which he was. Yeah. Today, he's probably like, you don't know what you asked for. And in fairness, I didn't know what I was signing up for either. Yeah. Merry Christmas, everybody.

Appreciate if you did tune in today that you, well, Merry Christmas. Drive safe, be with friends' family. read the Christmas story. Yeah, read Luke too. And just think on that because there's things there. Merry Christmas. Yeah, Merry Christmas. Read it before you open gifts.

That'd be my recommendation. Read Luke chapter two before you open your presents. Merry Christmas, Tanner. Thanks for coming in doing this. And I'm sure we'll talk in the new year. You bet. My pleasure. Merry Christmas.