Shaun Newman Podcast - #768 - Gary Mostert & Caleb Toews

Episode Date: December 26, 2024

Gary Mostert is the International Enforcer of the Disciple Christian Motorcycle Club. Caleb Toews is a farmer and owner of Renegade Acres. The idea was to bring together “Dangerous Christian Men” and see where the conversation went. Cornerstone Forum ‘25 https://www.showpass.com/cornerstone25/ Clothing Link: ⁠⁠⁠https://snp-8.creator-spring.com/listing/the-mashup-collection⁠⁠ Text Shaun 587-217-8500 Substack:https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcast E-transfer here: [e-mail] Silver Gold Bull Links: Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/ Email: [e-mail] Text Grahame: [phone]

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The second, a farmer and owner of Renegade Acres. I'm talking about Gary Mostert and Caleb Taves. So buckle up, here we go. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Today I'm joined by Gary Mostert and Caleb Taves. Boys, thanks for coming in. Hey, thanks for having us. I don't know.

This might be a really dumb idea out of my brain, but, you know, as Christmas season is upon us, I well I just look at the I look at Christmas a whole lot different than I did 10 years ago five years ago a year ago and so I was like oh I should do some conversations around

what the D mean so you know I got different things coming out here over you know I honestly folks I have no idea when I'm releasing this so it might be reverse order for all I know but I I started reflecting on some of the men who've impacted my life in positive ways and and then I started thinking about I don't know I call it dangerous Christian men I don't know if that's the right word or the right

terminology but certainly you know there's the saying that strong men create good times great weak men weak men create hard times and hard times create strong man and I'm like you know I just feel like there's strong Christian men snugged in there somewhere that create good times and so I just thought I'd invite you guys in and you know um i have no like honestly i'm like i just want to have some fun today which you know as me and gary were just doing we could just hop right back into the last conversation we're having um i should have given you two time to have a coffee and and say hello to one another but thanks for for both hopping in gary and kael both been on the show before but maybe gary we'll

just start back with you just a quick synopsis of who you are if people have never heard you and then hop over to caleb well so i'm gary monster um Last time I was here, I was the national president for Disciproc Christian Motorcycle Club. I'm now the international enforcer for Disciple Christian Motorcycle Club. I'm a father. I'm a husband. I love Jesus. Love riding motorcycles.

Love talking about it. So I love your platform. Thank you so much for having us. Yeah, absolutely. Caleb. Yeah, I'm Caleb. I like riding motorcycles, but I'd like to go for ride with you one day. Let's do it.

Yeah. But I'm a father as well. That would be fun, actually. Yeah. My kid rides with me, so Caleb, you better have one on the back when we go. That'd be great. Sorry, Caleb. No, I actually like your, I like your thought on the dangerous, the dangerous, I think it's more dangerous Christianity though.

Yeah. Because I think what we, I think we serve a dangerous God. You know, like, you know, even Psalm 2, like, you know, kiss the sun lest he be angry and you perish in his wrath, right? Like, like, come under the lordship of Christ, come under the kingship of Christ, or, or, you know, kind of face the consequences of that, right? It's, it's, we should be afraid if we're opposed to Christ. And so, when I think of a dangerous Christian, I think of someone who is under the lordship of Christ because, You can't move that guy. Right?

Amen. Yeah. I started doing a bit of jiu-jitsu, right? A common friend in Ken. And, you know, you do like, I'm going to say three jiu-jitsu classes, folks. And if you've been listening to lots of podcasts, you'll hear this. You'll hear jiu-jitsu come up an awful lot. And to me, there's a reason why you do three classes.

And you know less than a percent about jiu-jitsu. You know very, very little. But that less than a percent, makes you a very capable, dangerous at times person. Just because you know how the body works, you know how to do just a few simple things. And I just think you open up the Bible and you read maybe a chapter or two

and you know less than 1% and the same just is true. Right. I don't know. Maybe you two have your thoughts on that. I think it's how you read the Bible because, I mean, we know academics that study the Bible cover to cover.

They still don't believe in nothing, right? And they'll confidently tell you so and defend it. And I'm like, wow. You know, because until I was a believer, I read the Bible because dad said so. And if, you know, and I knew nothing. Like the day I got saved at 26, 27, my life changed because I read the Bible from what is God trying to teach me. What is God trying to show me? And now, in February, will be 20 years.

And I'm like, I still feel some days that I know less than 1%. You know? Yeah, I think you, once you start understanding that God created man to have community with God, but in the same time, we are also to submit to God, to His Lordship. And we stop listening to this soft gospel, light shows. smoke show church that's preaching like, oh, your road is going to be easy. Like, it doesn't say that. It says take up your cross daily. Follow me. And that's, you know, that sounds to me like a guy that's in the special forces that has to

run into battle whether he likes it or not. And that's what we do in the spiritual realm. Because our battle is not against flesh and blood. Our battle is against powers and principalities, right? Yeah. So that's how I feel about it. You read it differently. Same thing with jihitsu. If you just go there to check it out, you might see guys in geese, some no gis, whatever. But until you get on the mat and, you know, maybe see a blue belt against a white belt, you understand that there's technique and study methods and all that stuff involved in anything you want to succeed in. I think it, like, going against somebody who doesn't know anything there,

and I'm saying this is a guy who knows less than one percent of jiu jih Tzu. So you jiu-jitsu people out there. I'm thinking to you, Kevin, because I know you're listening to this, right? I know nothing about jiu-jitsu, but it's funny in the short time I've done it. You get somebody who rolls with you, and you can just, they don't get what they're supposed to, right? And you're like, oh, that's open. Oh, and I can do that. And I'm like, oh, I kind of, now, don't get me wrong, I wrestle against anybody who's done it a day longer than me, and I get the same treatment.

So, right, it's interesting. And, you know, I think back to when I used to walk around, I had no idea. you know, like you wrestle against flesh and blood, like that, that, Ephesians. I don't know if I fully got that, but now I fully get it, right? And life since I've gotten that has taken on a whole different direction. It's so much better. I actually went to Calgary here in December. And leaving Lloyd Minster has been a very uncomfortable thing for me since Ottawa.

And the only way I can say it to the believer is like just spiritual. checks. It's just very uncomfortable. And that doesn't happen anymore. It's like I know, I know what to do, I guess. I got the right guy on my side. And it just doesn't happen. I went to Calgary. Everything was fine. I didn't get myself into any weird predicaments. And it just felt like the weird predicaments were happening. And I want to point this out because everyone's like, oh, you're out drinking late. I wasn't drinking back then. It wasn't, it was like dead sober. Nope. This isn't happening again. Dead sober. And it'd start happening. I'm like, I'm losing my mind. I am going crazy, right? And so, you know, the spiritual side of this thing being, you know, picking up your

cross daily and then realizing, you know, the true enemy is something that can't be seen is a heavy burden at times, you know, an easy burden at times too. I don't know. Yeah. Well, and you said, you said believer, and you mentioned, you know, when you read the Bible because your dad made you, and then you started reading it because you wanted to because you wanted to learn from it. When I became a follower, yeah. And I think that's, you know, that's your, that's faith, right? Like, it's, when you had faith, it suddenly meant more. And that is really, um, all of this, like, we have a God who dwells within us. I mean, come on, a virgin birth. Like, this is stuff, science can't explain any of this stuff. And so if we don't start with faith, if you don't

start from the, where you believe, like the Bible is going to be, it's going to be fantastical, Isn't it? Well, if you like a science, if you like, you know, I'll pick on my childhood, if you like Lord of the Rings and stories that are so wild and out there, yeah. Great the Bible. Yeah. Well, and I believe, like, there's people like, I, the reason that I even question that like,

I'm like, oh yeah, like I heard of a guy who read the Bible and the thing that, and he didn't believe it. But the thing that that really stuck out to him was like, come on your God dwells within you. Like, that was the thing. And I hadn't even ever really picked, I mean, I believed it. We're promised that the spirit will come and dwell on us, right? But I'd completely glossed over it.

Just, you know, you grow up in the church, you grow up, you know, hearing the Bible. And it's just, there's like these amazing things that we gloss over. Yeah, and there's so much that we gloss over. And yet you get somebody who, I know, I remember a pastor talking about, you know, he didn't grow up in the church. And he hears these sermons about, about Joseph and how God, you know, put him through all these trials to make him stronger. And it's like, story really isn't even about Joseph. It's about Judah. It's about God, you know, preserving a nation and a lineage.

And Joseph is really just pretty insignificant in the story. He's just somebody God used to preserve Judah. And yet we just miss so much because we're not really reading it and studying it. Yeah. But what do you think of that? Well, I just listened to a podcast with that rainbow graph thing that comes up that shows how many times the Bible cross-references itself, anywhere from 63,000 to 68,000, depending on who's telling the story, I guess. But you think about the Bible being written over what, 4,000 years by how many different authors, four different authors, four different. continents and you know you think about just that blew my mind once I understood it I was like

it's just impossible like we're doing the challenge with the men in our club and in my life of reading the gospel of Luke here every day of the month we read one chapter until Christmas Eve and you basically covered the whole gospel of Luke and I was thinking about it today, like you think about just today's story is where Jesus entered Jerusalem. So he sends guys to go get the cold donkey and untie them and bring him. And I, you know, just all the things that come. And I'm like, why did the author of Luke decide to tell that part of the story, right? Maybe to talk to the cowboy that, you know, you can't ride a wild donkey if you have. If that's what God gives you to use, you can use that, you know.

And I just think about, we hear about miracles, and then once we read the Bible with faith, we start seeing miracles. Like, it just can't be coincidental. You know, we talked about it last time. And it's hard for me when atheist mathematicians tell me mathematically it's impossible for coincidence. I said, well, what's the opposite of coincidence? it's got to be divine or miracle, in my opinion. Maybe English is my second language,

but if there's no such thing as coincidence, it has to be divine intervention. But they, yeah, I agree with Caleb. Once you read it with faith, you... Hey, if we're wrong, we have nothing to lose. Yeah. We're right. We have everything to win, so let's rock and roll.

I think of here Claytus, the saying that no man ever enters the same river twice because the river's forever changing, and the man is. And when I read the Bible, like I'm just, I'm back in Matthew. And,

well, I've already read it, but I'm reading it again, and I'm just picking up on little things, just little things. And I'm like, why is that bugging me so much right now?

Right. Then you've got to sit there and you've got to stare at this one line. I call it stupid, probably shouldn't call it stupid, but it irritates me. I'm like, why is that irritating me?

You know, and I just think as you, as you continue to grow, like, you're going to get to 70 and you're still going to be reading the thing going, huh, didn't ever think about that before. And, you know, we have conversations as, you know, I'm sure that we will as well, Gary,

where you start talking about different things and you're like, I didn't see it like that. And then I got to go back and read it all over again, right? And there's things in life that just bug a guy and I go to lots of different places for answers, certainly. But the Bible reminds me here at Calatus. Like it's just, it just seems like it's, huh, I know I'm changing. I've changed drastically. I'm sure the listeners would agree with that. It's just the Bible is an interesting place to delve into

and start looking at the different things that come in there, the different stories, the different lessons. You know, like Proverbs, man. I can't stop reading it. I keep reading it. I'm like, this is something. Like, you know, like, I can't believe this is sitting in the Bible. It's been there all the time, and I've never picked it up to, like,

actually read it, you know? Yeah. Yeah, we do a thing with the men around us that we expect them to read a proverb, like a chapter a day, in all the months that has 31 days. And then all the months that has 30 days, you've got to read five Psalms and five verses of Psalm 119. And that way you get through the book of Psalms.

And a lot of men will say, I don't have time for that. Just keep it simple. Just read a chapter of proverbs a day, maybe with a pen. You don't be disappointed. No, with a pen or a highlighter. And then every month you read it, take a different highlighter. And by the time you've underlined everything in Proverbs, say how many colors you have in there. You know, it's interesting.

For guys that highlight the Bible, you know, if you highlight yellow over blue, it becomes green. So you're like, how did I get green there? I haven't even started highlighting in green. Forgive me, two guys who've read the Bible way more than I have. It goes Proverbs than Ecclesiastes, right? Oh boy. Here you put us in. Yeah, I think so.

Yeah, I think so. Right? I'm wrong here, folks. Oh, I'm stumping them. It's perfect. I got told, now, I don't know if this is factual, right? Proverbs is written by King Solomon, yes? Yeah.

And then I believe it's Clesiastes is written by they, they, I don't know if they give it to King Solomon, but that's kind of, the story I've been told is King Solomon. Solomon when he's older and he's had everything, he's done everything. And that's the time for war, time for peace, a time for you get the point. You go read that after he read Proverbs. I tell you what, that's some insight into life. Like I, like, those are too stark, like very well written.

And Ecclesiasis, he's like six chapters or six pages, probably more than that six chapters. Once again, I do a brutal job of going back through the Bible. But there's some things in there that. are fantastic. Now, before I forget this, okay, let's do this, folks, because I'm terrible at this lately. Must be holiday time. Okay, so, first, shout out to silver gold bowl. It's a one-ounce silver coin. I think by now everybody knows it, but for coming in the studio this morning, yeah, you know, I say if you're looking for a Christmas stocking gift, a piece of silver in the stocking would be...

Let me give you a black and gray poker chip. I hope you stick it up on a wall somewhere. That's our official club colors, but that's the only answer you should ever give to anyone that's asking questions, is allegedly, so that they should go and investigate it for themselves. That's good.

All right. Well, I'll put it right with the challenge tokens, the challenge coins of the military. How is that? That's awesome. Yeah. And the other thing I want to point out, because somewhere,

the boys at Ark are listening, okay? They've been harassing me because people show up with McDonald's cups, Tim Horton's cups, et cetera, et cetera. So there, there's the cup. If you're watching, if you're not watching, it's a picture of the Ark, a painting of the Ark, actually, that hangs up in their office, their insured park, and I'll show it to you guys.

So we got some coffee mugs in here this morning so that we're not, you know, the McDonald's Cup isn't sitting there. Now, I wanted to talk about, a thing that's been really bugging me, and it was Caleb who, that really bugged me with it in a best possible way. But one of the things is, is like forgiveness, grace.

And I'm like, that's a, you know, we came through COVID and a lot of people are having a tough time getting past COVID, right? Forgiveness. And then people are like, we don't need forgiveness. We need justice. We need,

you know, we need to hold everybody accountable. But like, that bleeds out in a society. And it's this, this topic, it's a heavy topic. But here we are, we're two years past COVID. I'm not saying that you forget about all the harms of COVID at all. I'm not saying you don't go after the government, et cetera, et cetera.

But how do families come back together? Communities start to heal. Is it just time or is there maybe some things you two would have to say on that? Well, I guess I'm just going to go right after the forgiveness part itself first. But we, in the Lord's prayer, we said, we're told to, it says, forgive me as I forgive others. Which, like, we're, it's a bit of a dare, really. We're telling God to forgive us as we forgive others. So if we're not going to forgive others, we shouldn't expect to be forgiven, I guess would be my.

But then I'd also, I mean, the people that took a different side, than we did, whatever the side is that we took during the COVID thing. We all were following, uh, we were following something. We were following somebody else's narrative often. We didn't, we didn't necessarily have our own data to go off of in the beginning. So we either decided that we were going to vaccinate it, we weren't going to vaccinate or we were going to follow the mandates, we weren't going to follow the mandates, but we were following somebody else's cues.

And, but there are people a long ways away and we live all, all in the same communities, if we can't get back to just loving one another again and and trying to live in harmony, then, then, uh, because I actually think that's what, I don't know, when I listen to like Luongo and Craneer, uh, that you're like, it sounds like we've had governments that are trying to pit people against each other for a long time. For a long time. Like it's, that's kind of that, that's the, that's the course of, um, of history is that people are pit, when they're pitted against each other, they're weak. And so if we can come back in,

and I mean, if you take it over to Christianity, that's the thing that I hate about denominations. We have so many denominations. And yet we have one faith, one Lord, one baptism. And yet you get a couple of Christians in a room and before you know what they're fighting about baptism. It's like, really? Like, are we not baptized, you know, by into the father's son and Holy Spirit? Like, can we not just get along? And so it's, I think so we have to realize that we're being played. They don't want us to get along. They don't want us to, you know, forgive the person. To come together.

Yeah. Now, for me, as a Christian, it's funny that you mentioned that line because it's one of my favorite lines when I talk to men about unforgiveness. But just the other day during the class, took since I've seen you last time, Sean, one of the scriptures, and I can't remember the reference, I apologize, that came up was the same measure that you judge with was going to be used to judge you. And I, you know, my family lives. Is that in scripture? That is in scripture. That's, that's what you're talking about at the end of the Lord's Prayer, because it's the Lord's

prayer and then right after the Lord's Prayer, it says, or am I wrong on that? Sorry, I didn't towards the end. In the Lord's prayer, that is towards the end, yeah. Okay. Carry on, Gary. Father forgive me my trespasses. I forgive those who trespass against me. Now, in a motorcycle club, you run a program in our club that involves a lot of Bible study with a mentor. And my mentor at the time told me to study the Lord's Prayer. And, you know, I'm good with God, hell of be your name.

Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, because he's God. but when I came to the part of the Bible study about forgive me my trespasses I forgive those who trespass against me I can tell you the flesh like Gary's flesh was no I am about to get even you know that that's who I was until I got saved and then when I recently I mean 20 years 20 years has gone by since I got saved that that verse of the same measure you used to judge will be used against you in the day of judgment or something along those lines. I might be paraphrasing. Man, I just have a lot of forgiveness to do. So I don't have time. Like, you know, I just don't make time for this or space in my head for

this ticks me off or that ticks me off. I think we can agree that a lot of people struggled with, with COVID, are married to a doctor. So it was insane because I come from, I govern myself. She comes from, I need to run with science. And she backed out once the science was proved. The science was proved to be exactly what she learned in medical school that a virus eventually, the more it mutates, the less powerful it becomes. And as soon as we have heard immunity, now you can go test for COVID, test positive.

if you didn't know, you didn't know you had a snotty nose, you know. Anyway, so we're not going to ever, we're not ever going to, what you call it, debate the fact away that people died that tested positive for a virus that was prevalent. In the same token, we're never going to debate away the fact that myself, I never tested positive. I was sicker than a dog in Colorado in a hotel if that person ever had an excuse to say, no, you're positive, or I'm not going to test you because you have flu-like symptoms

and you're sneezing all over me when I try and shove the stick down your throat. You know, so I just think we give the world way too much traction in your head and just go, Lord, what is your willier? How can I be godly? How can I turn people towards you with how I react.

And that's it, right? So, yeah, forgiveness is a big thing. And then the grace part is the hard thing for men, especially for men, because we want to get even. Like, no, you wronged me. And you told me how to wear my pants, and I don't like it. Yeah. Yeah, I couldn't agree with that more.

We do want to get even. Amen. It's what, we think it's the manly thing to do. And it's actually, it's harder to, it's easier to punch somebody in the nose than forgive them. Oh yeah. Yeah. Getting, I mean, getting even is the easy, easy thing. Like, you know, being immigrant from South Africa, people ask me, you know,

is South Africa really that bad? And in the beginning, if you asked me that, I would have said, yeah. But, you know, coming next October, Trina and I will be here 20 years. and I came to Canada as the land of milk and honey and the promise that will never die and opportunity and stuff and I believe it, it still is, but it's because I choose to be that that is. You know, I think about young men that homestead and homeschool and that's freedom. The government will never give us freedom.

And I agree with Caleb, the last. Last thing this government wants, or any government for that matter, is for men to say, no, we're not doing that. Right? Like, I don't want to get into politics, but you think about what just happened in the United States of America. A whole bunch of people just said, no, enough of this. We're just not going to do it. We're going to vote for the polar opposite of what you're telling us to do. Right?

Yeah? Maybe they're trying to get even. We'll see, eh? We'll see after January 20th. Yeah. The grace thing's tough for me. I'm sure it's tough for everyone. Dude, anyone that's played rugby, hockey, wrestling, jiu-jitsu, boxing,

there's no grace, like, my coach used to tell me there's no mercy on the mat. If you want mercy, tap. What's it? If you don't ask for it, you won't get it. Not on it. Like, that's what. we're programmed for. And I still apply that. Like, you know, people, people recently ask me, how do you, how do you perceive people that disagree with you? I said, like, back in the day,

I was worried about them disagreeing. Now I'm like, I don't really care if they disagree. Because typically, if I speak to a group of people, I will speak from my personal experience, what I personally read in the Bible and if they don't understand it it's not their fault they just haven't read that so I'm just okay with it I'm not here to fight anyone right

in the same token if you came up to me or Caleb came up to me or the cowboy preacher came up to me as men that I've learned to trust over time is where did you get that from what is the information what is your train of thought you know and then if I agree with it

I will high-five you and go I'm gonna steal that I'll be the worst writer ever because I'll just plagiarize everybody else that wrote great things around me you know forgiveness just allow people space to

you know kind of storm out but at times it's times you want the other person to make the first move am I wrong in this sometimes you're like why do I gotta

well no I gotta do it But it's funny. I was telling Gary before you walked in, Caleb, I was having, you know, like one of the things that I've respected about you and others. I got a lot of men in my life that it's a growing number. But I think a lot of people have the person beside them that will go, yeah, you're right. You got, you're so right. And I was telling Gary that, you know, like I was having one of those days where I was like, you know,

I just don't know, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I, you know, and I say blah, blah, folks, because I was probably spewing a bunch of dumb things. and Caleb goes, sometimes you just got to own your shit. And I'm like, you're right, crap, right? And it sets you off on a completely different track.

But sometimes you just want other people to own their shit. Why can't they own their shit? Why can't they? I don't get it. I'm like, there's so much, you know, and that's what probably irritates me the most. And then I come back to forgiveness

and I get everything he just said, and I'm like, okay. I think some of it, though, is if your God dwells within you, if you're if you have faith, if you're a believer, then you are also going to be, you're the one that actually has the motivation to do the right thing,

whereas the other person may not, right? Like if you're trying to, if you're trying to build community back with, with people who don't have faith, which I think we need to, like I think we need to, um, in the great commission, it says, you know, go out and, and teach them to obey all that the Lord is commanded. well, like teach, not at the edge of a sword, not not like teaching means something. And it doesn't mean like forcing them.

It means teaching them, right? And so we teach them how to forgive by showing them how to forgive. We, we come and and reconcile with them. So they're like, hey, that's why is this person, this is a really hard thing to do. Why could he do this and I couldn't? Right. And they maybe even ask. Why can you, how can you, how do you have the nerve to do this?

Well, my God dwells within me, right? I've, uh, I've come under the lordship of Christ. I'm trying to, you know, obey all that he is commanded. And when I sin, um, because I sin, just like you, but, but I have an advocate with the father. I go to Christ and I say, I sinned, forgive me. And, uh, and so that we're different, right? And can I, can I ask, like, two guys who, you know, like, you're the head

of a motorcycle club where you're going to deal with some I just assume maybe I'm wrong on this Gary but I'm going to assume you deal with some men that a little rough around the edges maybe and maybe don't like being at times told what to do and Caleb I honestly at times I'm like you surprise me daily

of like how you can just say certain things and be confident in and not worry about if you're offending somebody and I don't think you do it in an offensive way just kind of of like you as I keep pointing out you do it in a way that's hmm you're probably right but that you know like it's it's a it's a talent but those little tiny things are what you know like when you're talking about forgiveness and maybe you show those little ways it's like people are watching and they go oh that's interesting right and and and I've

heard of well um with parenting I've heard it with you know like like a captain of a hockey team a coach of a hockey team how he conducts himself people are watching and then they start to adopt some of the things that way Is that something that you've always had, or have you slowly had somebody helping you along the way with that? Like day one when you walk, I mean, you know, like when you're 27, Gary and you accept Christ, I assume it wasn't like that day one. I assume it's something that's growing. Am I wrong?

Huge, yeah, no, for sure. I think it's something I teach men all the time now is, listen, don't go running into spaces and go preach at men and give them like tracks. and, you know, like little booklets of Bible verses, that's the most disrespectful thing you can do. Build a relationship with a guy. Allow him to trust you. Right? If you said you're going to show up for the birthday, show up.

If you said you're going to show up for the Christmas party, show up. Be friendly, be polite, be respectful. Eventually, somebody's going to call you in the middle of the night and say, I'm struggling. And you know why he called you? He made 35 other phone calls, and I was too drunk.

I was too high, I was too whatever, make some excuse not to show up. And you go show up at that hospital side bed or just that quiet conversation in the 24-hour Tomortons or, you know, and you never know what that means for that person. You know, it's in my world, I've heard things like, sorry, you've never been in our church. Your organization can't use our building for a funeral. I'm like, first of all, I would love to know who makes that call, because I have the feeling it's one person, right? And second, I'm concerned that if we say you're not qualified to come into my church building,

how do they perceive the church, the we that's supposed to be the church outside the church building? You're never going to build that relationship. The other thing that I want to touch on is I've always, I'm like you. It's like, you need to own your stuff, right? And I'm like, now I'm at a point like, the only person that's going to be held accountable for what I do on this earth is me. My wife's not going to be all the accountable.

My daughters, they're going to be all the accountable for them, but they're not going to be all the accountable for Gary. My mom and dad's not going to be all accountable for Gary. You know, it's going to be me that's stand in front of God and say, because of the grace of your son. You know, that's, so for me, to wait for somebody else to own their stuff, I just have to go from the point of view that eventually they're going to be all accountable for them. And I can certainly guide along the way and love along the way and forgive along the way. It's a beautiful way to look at it, isn't it?

Yeah. You know, create a space where people can trust you where they can come back six months, 18 months, two years, three years later and go. Man, we screwed up. Just think about it, right? Like I asked somebody recently, if a leader of a country that clearly doesn't lead according to the will of God, for his entire rain comes to a fall, and he's off to retirement,

and he finds God on a private island somewhere in the Atlantic Ocean or whatever, are we as believers when we get to the pearly gates, going to go look inside and if he's there. Not go in. Go, no, I ain't doing this. You know? Or are we going to allow him the space? Like, man, I can't wait to get to that table.

Excuse me. Well, if. At that table, if J.T. was sitting there, I'd be like, holy crap, that guy's got a story. That's what I'd be thinking, right? Because right now you're watching them and you're going, that guy is being led by something else that isn't, you know.

Any leader, any leader. I recently listened to a podcast that said Saddam Hussein, let's take a dead leader because he can't come after me. Saddam Hussein only had Christians in his closest circle. Two reasons. They don't martyr themselves. And their faith doesn't allow them to deceive him, in his opinion. Now, I'm not saying Christians do that.

I'm just saying he was safer in the presence of Christians. Isn't that an interesting? Isn't that insane? Now, gears turning. If I get to heaven, when I get to heaven, because the Bible says I'm good to go. And Saddam Hussein is inside. That'd be an interesting conversation. I've never heard that before.

Was Saddam Hussein a Christian? Or he just surrounded himself with Christians? He surrounded himself with Christian. because he believed that they won't try and poison him, they won't try and blow themselves up around them, they won't try and kill himself to get rid of Saddam. Because that's the other thing. They are called to teach and lead and bring people to Jesus.

I'm trying to remember where I heard that story, but it blew my mind. That's wild because you'd think, if you can recognize what makes a Christian good to have you around you, it doesn't start to rub off on you, wouldn't it? Right. If they're true followers of Christ, it has to stick to people. I think I told you this story about Sean Ryan.

I still think he should come on your podcast. Just Sean Ryan, if you're listening. I started following Sean Ryan when he bought all these psychedelic special forces guys on his show, and I loved it because there's some stuff in my life that I'm like, maybe I should go to Peru, right? by the grace of God, I believe I don't, because I'm healed in Jesus' name. But anyway, I was listening to this guy, and he was talking to a guy trying to remember his last name now, but I think his first name is Marcus.

And he and his wife have done a phenomenal amount of investing and investigating the psychedelic treatment for stuff like PTSD and, you know, traumatic brain injury and all that stuff. But at the end of that three and a half, four-hour podcast, this guy, the guest on Sean Ryan's show, talks openly about his relationship with Jesus. And then I listened to another show. And at the end of the interview, he talks openly about his relationship with Jesus, the guest. And it was like week after week. And I just, like my silent prayer in my bedroom every time I saw that podcast finish out with, this is what God. did this is when I realized that God is real whatever the situation I was like there's no way

Sean Ryan can see this and not ask questions and by his training and he's very fine skill set of being a warrior he's either going to find truth or he's going to expose bullshit right and and I believe that's his calling in life it's fine truth or exposed and I will never forget the joy when I opened my ex-account for the first time. And I don't know how long. I had an ex-account when it was Twitter. So, anyway, I opened that. And Sean Ryan said something along the line, as from this day forward,

my family and I will be following the Lord. It's real people. And I know that guy won't do that. Like, I cried a little bit. I praised God a lot. And I believe that divinely one day I will meet Sean Ryan because of that. I just believe it. I don't have his phone number.

I don't have his email address. But I believe one day me and Sean Ryan will share the same space. That might be heaven and eternity. Those are our weapons. Amen. Yeah. Amen. Yeah, the Sean Ryan,

well, it's been interesting for me to watch because obviously I've been on my own little journey. you know, as we all are. And, but, I don't know. I watched him, and I've been watching Joe Rogan, too. Because Joe Rogan's been having guys on. And you go, Joe Rogan's not, I mean, like, he's a lot of things. But, like, when he starts hearing something, it's going to bug him. And he's going to just pull up that thread, just ever so slight.

You start pulling that thread? It's going. Oh, crap. All right, keep going. And you're going to get to a point where you're like, we're, well, where Sean Ryan where I am you know where Tucker Carlson is I think right right I mean it's just I know mine wasn't from any specific guest I don't think you know I got to Tanner today coming on for Christmas again that's become kind of a tradition now a Christmas

Day Tanner Nadee and me sit and have a chat and it's just wild when it happens you know and it sounds like if you if you don't know what the heck I'm talking about it's like you know I always ask I used to ask the question. I haven't asked him a while, but like, what was your red pill moment, right? Like when you started to look and realize maybe the government doesn't have the best, um, uh, best of my interest at heart. And, uh, it's, it's interesting because, you know, as a Christian, maybe the question should

be, you know, what was your red pill moment to realize God's real, you know, like, what was it? You know, like Gary, I've heard lots of your story of being in, in the church. And I really encourage people to go back and listen to that episode because I thought it was a, a I don't know, a ton of fun on my end. Kayla, I don't know if I've ever asked you that before. Does it go back to when you're a teenager? Or does it happen later in life, earlier in life? When I was part of the church?

Or what do you mean? I don't know. I called the Red Pill moment. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah, I guess I would look at it as like the moment that I maybe knew I was saved or the moment that I thought my, because, yeah, I was raised in the church.

Um, did you always think it was real then? Or is there a moment you're like, oh, this is real? I never doubted that it was real, but I, but I, but I'd never, but I didn't submit. I didn't, I didn't come under the Lordship of Christ. I guess like I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I was, you know, my parents, you know, read the Bible to me as a kid. They taught me things from that, you know, um, but I, there was, uh, I just rebelled a, I just rebelled a against it. I didn't want, I, I wanted to live a different life than what, you know, these, uh, and these Christians were living. And so I did. I went and lived, uh, a life that was

completely opposite to, to how a Christian lives and, uh, got into trouble and, uh, had, uh, yeah. And then I did, there was a time when I realized that I was like, well, if I keep living like this, I'm probably not going to see, you know, 30. And so I was like, well, I guess I, if I want to live, then I'm going to have to reject this life. And so I did. I went and tried really, really hard to be a Christian. And I forced myself to read my Bible and spend time with weird people at church. Because they were weird.

Like they weren't my people, right? And then I got, yeah, I got disillusioned with church. I left church again for a couple of years. It would have been after I was married at that point, though. And actually, me and my wife even talked, but we just talked about this other day, how there was a time where we taught, we're not sure if this is going to work, like, for us to be married, right?

Like, we don't get along, we don't, things weren't working out at all. And then we, somebody invited us to go to church, go to their Bible study, actually. and we kept saying we would come and we just never we never made it we always had something else I'm like well can we come to you can we just bring our Bible study to you guys and we're like yeah sure and so we had like 30 probably 30 35 people show up in our very small house and and it was just amazing they were doing a they were doing a Bible study they were teaching through Romans and I mean, I just heard stuff that I, they just took the Bible and went through it, like verse by verse and explained it.

And I, I loved it. And so we literally went to church next Sunday, but we tried to. One of the kids got sick on the way. So anyways, we started going to church. Pastor was preaching through John. And we, I think we were there going there for probably a year. And, uh, I was sitting there and he was, he was explaining it. I mean, John is an amazing book.

You can. John's fantastic. Yeah. It's my favorite book. You can stay in the shallow end the whole time and it's and be fed or you can go drown in the deep end. Like there's so much in every verse. But anyways, it's, um, I just realized I'm like, man, I have been like apologizing for my sin. Um, not repenting.

And, and, uh, I've been trying really hard to, like, I've been trying to do good. I've been trying to like be a really good person, but I'm not. Like I'm actually, I'm a terrible person. Like I'm, I have all this sin. I can't really, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I have no victory over my sin. It's still consuming me. I'm really not different than I was before. I just go to church most Sundays now.

But, but the biggest thing for me was, was realizing who Jesus was. That's like I realized after studying, uh, the book of Romans and hearing the book of John, the gospel of John being preached, I'm like, this Jesus that I've been praying to, he's not real. This one that I've been learning about though, he's real. This one is the one that's explained in the Bible. This one, he paid for my sin. He took my sin upon himself and gave me his righteousness. Like that I can, you know, and from there, like I just, all of a sudden I could, I could, like I stopped sinning.

I mean, not stopped sinning, but I had, I was able to overcome sin. I still, we all still sin every day. But I wasn't like, the sin didn't have a grip on me. Like I was actually able to say no to things. And, but it wasn't because of me. Like, it was because of Christ. Christ, now my God dwelt in me, right? I actually understood who Christ was.

So if we don't, um, if we don't explain to people who Christ is, then how can they know him? If you can't know Christ, he is, he's the bread of life. He's the, you know, come to me all who are thirsty, all who are hungry. Like there's, there's no, without Christ we don't have anything. So we can try as hard as we want to be religious

and do all the right things, but without Christ, we are without hope. So I guess that for me was just understanding who the person and care, or of Christ was, was my red pill moment, I guess. Yeah. How long to take to, you mentioned your marriage was on the rocks, I would say. How long did it take after, like, because obviously, like, I was, I don't know, I've never

knowing you to be in that situation. I've always knowing you and your wife to be like, I don't know, like thick as thieves, you know, like, I'm like, you walk in and it just seems. like you have everything in order. Now, I know that as a dad, you're like, oh, I'm glad that's the way it comes off, because there's some days where I'm like, what the heck am I doing? Certainly get that, but I just mean to say that,

you know, everything about your relationship with your wife, from what my eyes have seen, would say that whatever you did today, it looks like a very happy relationship, happily married on and on and on.

I guess I'm just curious. You know, like you started, you know, you had a Bible study come to your your house which is I think unusual and 30 some people show up which I think is unusual I think I think that's unusual yeah and and for like was it immediate or was this something over the course of six months a year I don't know well we would have started like we started going hanging out with those people right away that that came and we started going to their church and and it was it feels like it was pretty immediate but I don't think it was like I think it was over, you know, a course of, like we certainly weren't,

we were, we immediately started getting along better because it was like, well, I think we were, I knew, like I knew the whole time that I was, I was wrong, I guess. Like I knew that I should be in church. I knew that the Bible, I never doubted that the Bible was true. I guess I always thought that it was true. I always thought it was, you know, kind of, the thing to live by, right?

And, and, and, and, but then I was, I was, I was still rebelling against that, I guess, in how I was, I wasn't leading my family well, you know, instead of taking the church, I would, I mean, I was, honestly, I was probably too hung over most Sunday mornings to, I, I, I wanted to sleep in. I had a headache and I felt like garbage till two o'clock. So, I'm not going to get up and take my family to church. Um, but so yeah, yeah, I think there was a lot of things that changed really quick on the surface. even though I don't actually think, I don't think I was saved. I don't think I was a believer until I think I was being drawn by God in that time,

but until I really realized who Christ was and understood what he did for me, understood that I can never do enough to earn my salvation and that he earned at all. He's the one who lived a perfect life and then exchanged his perfect life for my wretched life, Um, I couldn't, yeah, that was when it really changed, I think, because then I could also start taking more ownership for my family as well and, and, uh, and being responsible for them, realizing that I need to teach them these things. I need to teach. I need to make sure my wife knows who Christ is, right? Um, and that's actually, we're told to wash our wives in the word, um, in, in scripture. And so like, that's how do we wash our wife in the word? Will we explain? explain it to her, we read it to her and our family, right, our kids. That's, uh, he mentioned earlier that, you know, his family's not responsible for him and he's totally right, but we're responsible for our families. Amen.

If anything, I'll be all this responsible for my family. Yeah. So that's the difference between men and, and their families is they aren't responsible for us, but we are for them. So if they are unaware of things, we're held accountable for that. So. And I just think as a man, when you read scripture, it's over and over. You lead your house.

You know, love your wife as I have loved the church. Well, you got crucified and, well, we got beaten to a pulp first and mocked and then crucified. And, you know, and I'm just like, I mean, in this room, I think we're fairly united on if anybody touches any one of your kids. If you're not around, call me, I'll take care of it. You know what I mean? And vice versa, right? It's, I think about your story, Caleb, and I think it's for too long, especially for me that grew up in the church. And I mean, today when I think back about the few things my dad said that I remember, I think about one conversation my dad said.

that I remember, I think about one conversation my dad told me, listen, we're not doing good work because we want to earn Jesus. We do good work because we've got Jesus. And for too long, I think there was a mentality that it's, I mean, it's in sport. You started white belt in jihitsu. You don't show up and three days later you get a black belt. You earn your way to the top. It's the Same for farming. You will not harvest a single seed unless you put seed in the ground. And I mean, that's blind faith, right? You earn your way to the top in anything you want to do. And there's a lot of suck to embrace along the way. And once we understand that we are under this lordship of the Holy Creator of heaven and earth, and he gave us an opportunity.

a second chance, well, I'm probably on my thousands chance, but he gave us Jesus to reconcile our relationship with him. Because that's all he ever wanted with Adam and Eve in the garden, in my opinion, is he wanted community in his creation. And we have evidence of that because he went to the garden every night in the early breeze of the evening to go hang out with them. And then one night he showed up and he couldn't find them. We obviously knew where they were. But he didn't start with what have you done. He started with, where are you? And then he was like, they said, while we're hiding, why are you hiding?

While we're naked, who told you're naked? Because he obviously wanted to deal with whoever corrupted his creation. And I believe he did right there and then by making man or humanity earn the right to have a relationship with him again, with him again. while them, the triune God. But he also separated them from his creation in the sense that he put him out of the garden and said, you will work and you will have babies in pain, go forth and multiply. I just think over and over we see how he shows grace. And if you think the Holy Spirit is only in the New Testament after the day of Pentecost,

you're sadly mistaken. In the first couple of verses of the Bible, he talks about the spirit came over the water. You know, and it talks about create them in the image of us. Right. So, yeah, we, I think, like you said, like, you have that moment, like I had on the train. And it's just like there's no way this can be anything but true. And then from there, it's, you know, some days you eat with choppy. sticks and some days you eat with ladles but you know some days you eat with two

spoons it's it's just but it's community that comes around that that helps you either grow or get through the storm or through the desert because somebody saw it different than you but you need relationship you need a network around you to to prevent those storms you need people to remind you that you can talk to that storm you know I hope it makes sense yeah

yeah yeah so I just think we we have to get away from that whole thing of I'm going to do all this good work and eventually God is just going to take me in that's not how it works it's like I have given you my son my only begotten son

so that those who believe in me shall not perish but have eternal life those who believe in me That clearly says those that don't will not have eternal life. That's the flip side of that coin. And it's not for me to decide that. That's for him to decide that.

Until then I get to point them to the sun and say, this is what this guy did for you on the cross. This is your chance to walk away from the BS in your life. And I really don't care what faith you're part of. If you live in this world and you don't see the crap around you, you know. At some point, you got to ask, who's in charge of this? Right?

It's funny, you just, you, it's like you get accustomed to the crap, you know? It's a slow fade, right? That's exactly what Satan wants. He wants us to go lukewarm because lukewarm is vomit. Like, we were, you know, like, it's interesting to me, you know, like, this Christmas season is still, I don't know, I think Sacred's the right term to use in society. like revered maybe like in Canada Christmas it's whatever you want it to be it's either some pagan money-making you know tree-hugging whatever like talk about let's not go down tree-hugging um you know like it's either that or in me and my house we're going to read the gospels Christmas Eve will be

setting around the very story that we have read for thousands of years about a very very virgin woman that went with her fiance to Jerusalem, gave birth to a baby in a stable, you know, the wise men that came with gifts and the shepherds that came to check things out because the angel said so. That's how we're going to roll in my house. That's just, it is. New Year's Eve. Midnight will be going through scripture about new beginnings and it's just how it is in my house. That's how we start the year.

You know, Joshua didn't say for me in this nation, he said, for me in my house, we will follow the Lord. Take it or leave it. You can come with me and do your own thing, or you can do your own thing in the desert, and have another day of manna and quail. You know? And the story on Christmas Eve, right, was already promised in Genesis 3. Right. It's pretty amazing. Yeah. Do you just think about the Old Testament prophets, how many of them talked about this Savior will come?

he will set us free, you know. It's, yeah. That's what hurts my brain when I start to, because I think it's like, so many things have to happen between Genesis 3, right? And the story of Jesus, right? Or it's all the story of Jesus, okay? You can, you guys can slice it nice.

Well, until the birth of Jesus, there was like 2,000 years or something. Like, it's a long time. So, but you have like, you know, you're like, you're pointing out that you can see that you can look back and see that it's talking about Jesus, correct? Yeah. And like, this is where I'm like, why does it have to go through so much pain and sorrow and just like humiliation and on and on and on and on?

And like, I don't know. It's such, like that hurts my brain. That thought, you know, all the connections. You go back to your, you know, how many times it cross references itself. and everything else, you're like, man, that hurts my brain. Like that, that entire thing hurts my brain, right? To know, like, to be sitting at the top of this thing going, I'm going to have to give up my son.

But to know, you know, it's like, I don't know, that's, I don't even know if I'm making sense. Like, it hurts my brain to think about that too much. It's a lot. Well, I think some of it, though, is like, there's time where God is disciplining his people. Like, that's, like, you're, that's maybe the pain you're talking about, like where they're, you know, going into captivity.

Well, okay, so like take, take, um, oh man, Abraham has my new sons. Yes, but, but he, but his wife can't get pregnant, so he has who? Ishmael, right? Ishmael first, yeah. But not with his wife. I'm like, why we got to do that? That makes zero sense to me. It makes beyond zero sense to me.

think we have to be clear that that ishmael was to me and now your pastor in lloyd is going to call you and say never bring this guy on your podcast again to me ishmael was not god's choice no god's choice was abram do you trust me do you believe that through your seed i'll get your wife sarah pregnant and she will have a son for you and and he grabbed things into his own hand like trust like not like not But for one minute do I think a school shooter is within God's will. For one minute, like the Bible teaches the ruler of this world is the evil one. That's why our battle is against powers and principalities. But the one that's in charge...

So what you're saying is Abraham loses faith in God. Or whatever, however you even put it. Takes things in his own hands. And because of that... We have Ishmael. And you think that little tiny seed becomes... into this, and goes off and has, it's like the butterfly. And every time we try and grab the steering wheel,

yeah, we really, we flip the car. Yeah. Every time you overcorrect on ice, you roll it down the ditch. And then somebody comes, picks you up, drive you back into town, take it to a dealership, you get another one. I truly believe that. Every time we try and grab the handles, we're either going to crash the plane, blow up, the bomb, roll the car.

It's it. You know, I'm athlete, right? Wow. That's why I'm trying to use that analogy. And one of the things that I'm slowly, slowly, slowly starting to grasp. But although in saying that, I mean, once again, if I go back two years, I wouldn't even have talked about this. So like, it's like, I guess I'm going at a rapid pace slowly. If those two, if that can even be a... It's exactly what it is.

You see athletes, say thanks. thanks to God, right, for where they're at and everything. I'm like, I'm slowly starting to get that, right? He's got the hands on the wheel or hands on the wheel, and if you just let go and not try and grab it and go, I know where I'm going, you might be taken to places you never thought you'd be taken to, if you just let it go.

Amen. I thought about this this morning, and I don't know that I have it formalized in my head yet. In the time that I've been in Alberta, I watch a little bit of CFL football because I've had some connection there with a friend and we play rugby in South Africa and to me the only other thing that comes close to it is football.

And I was thinking about it like when the Eskimo struggled after a brilliant Grey Cup season in 2005 every time they struggled they fire the coach. Sometimes him and all, all his staff. And I don't know if they've won a Grey Cup since. But that's how much of a fan I am. But I was like, at what point are you going to get rid of this quarterback that clearly is too old

and not doing what he did when he was 32 and 33 in 2005? You know what I mean? Like I watch how many times people go after the coach before. they hold players accountable. Well, our coach, Jesus Christ, is going to hold us accountable. We're on this pitch and we have a play to make and we only have one chance of it

than this time. The other side of the line is eternity. And yeah, I believe that from sports and from life and from just everything I pursue is it's not about me after all. That's about who's coming with me to go to heaven with me.

Yeah, that did we ever talk about in the previous one about those Coptic Christians that got beheaded by ISIS on that beach? I don't think so. I guess I'll try and give you the abbreviated thing because

this is a podcast that can last till tomorrow if we keep going. So I come up in a program joining the club, right? You've got to earn it. You got to learn daily word and prayer time. You've got to learn worship. You've got to learn regular schedule of fasting, giving of your time, talent, and treasure.

You've got to learn how to bold respect and relationship and establish that kind of relationship with other motorcycle clubs. It's a process, right? And my charter, the part of the club that I'm closest to, the men around me, they wanted to patch me up. I didn't know it at the time because they always try and make it special. Anyway, so it's something that will never happen, I guess, unless there's extreme circumstance. They tip my wife off and actually ask her, do you think he's ready?

And it's because of her schedule, and they really wanted her there the day that they're going to make me a full-patch member of the club. So, unbeknownst to me, my wife starts asking questions like this, is, hey, when do you think your charter is going to patch you up? Well, the academic answer in any motorcycle club is, I'll get patched up when my full patches decide I'm good and ready. And then she left it alone like a pro. And it's surprising because she can't hide my Christmas gift from me because I know what she bought. You know? And I'm like, interesting question, but life goes on, right? A couple of days later, she's like, so what do you think you have to do before your full

patches will decide that you're good and ready? I'm like, don't know, I'm just going to be me, do me. And in that time, that event with the Coptic Christians happened where ISIS clearly wanted them to deny God, they said, no, they're not doing it. And ISIS very publicly beheaded them. And I saw it on a YouTube video, maybe I heard about it, whatever. And my wife asked again, when do you think you'll be good and ready? To wear a cross on your back that says you're a disciple of Christ,

four-disciple Christian motorcycle club. And I said, as soon as I'm prepared to have my head cut off for what I believe in. Now, I hope that's true. I'll be brutally honest. I hope that's true that if I get marched down a beach, and somebody says if you don't deny God I'm going to cut your head off I'm going to go I hope you have a sharp knife I hope so I also pray every day that God will keep me safe and protect me for as long as you will have me here and take me in my sleep well it's it's you that um what was the father your dad's prayer he said over you when you got in a bad car accident as a kid

yeah that prayed the prayer that's what got me safe you know seven years later but um dad prayed a prayer and said father if they still work for my son in this world, please save his life. I've thought about that lot because I'm like, what a prayer that is. Right? Because if it's your time to go. 100%. Do any of us have a real say in that? No.

You know, and I justified the prayer. I was like, well, you know, my dad had a church member's son got electrocuted by a vacuum cleaner in a car. I was trying to do his mom a favor to clean out the car, got electrocuted and dead by 220 coming in. out of a wall. Nothing significant. We've all fell 2.20 by now, right? But he was dead. His mom found him dead in the passenger seat. A couple of weeks after that, a kid climb up on a roof, slipped. He fell eight feet to the grass. We've jumped off of that roof and nothing was wrong

with us. He fell eight feet. Mom and dad found him dead next to the house. Here, I carter wheel a car into a cowfield and between the rocks and dad prays that prayer and I survive. I never thought anything of it till seven years later when I sat in a church and a pastor said somebody here tonight's dad prayed this prayer over his life. Like I told the last time I thought dad set it up. I was like you son of a gun you Christians are a bunch of hypocrites that talk behind closed doors and behind curtains to each other. And then when I got on the train that night, it dawned on me that my dad doesn't even know that I go to church and that I didn't even go to church to

satisfy anybody but myself because I chased the woman there right and it dawned on me that that guy literally knew word for word and it can only be the Holy Spirit that told them that so no coincidences right well even going back to like to my story Like I don't think that I hadn't heard some of the things that other pastors had probably said some of the things that this other guy was saying, I just until the Holy Spirit actually did a work. And then then you don't. Yeah, you don't, you don't understand, right?

Like the disciples even asked Jesus at some point, why are you, why do you talk this way with the, you know, with the parables? And he says, well, it's so that some people can't understand. Like, he says right in there that he's, it's so that some people can't understand. Like without the Spirit, we are, we can't know. It's, yeah. It's crazy because we think, well, you know, hypothetical. The other day I read, and I am, how many times have we all read the story about Jesus in the wilderness? The beginning of that story says, the Spirit led him into the wilderness for him to be tempted.

Jesus Christ was led in, you can Google it. You can Google it if you don't believe me. No, I believe you. I'm thinking about it. You can see the look on my face. I'm like... Jesus Christ was led into the wilderness by the Holy Spirit

to be tempted. It reminds me. I was reading, you know, Frank Peretti, who I got to have on here. You know, um, I got to read his books, uh,

this present darkness and piercing the darkness. And I believe it's in piercing the darkness. One of the main, one of the, the main character. is being basically attacked by demons, and the angels are watching it saying, no, this part has to happen.

We can't go in yet. And I remember, like, that hit me really hard. It still kind of hits me hard, right? It was a very emotional. I put that book down for a while because I'm like, there's no way, right? But you saying that again, I'm like, that's a heavy thought.

He was not spared. No, Jesus Christ had to go through everything man has to go through in order to know that the Holy Spirit is real God the Father is real and that his son died on a cross for you I believe it with my whole heart like the other day listen I grew up in a house that

that's like dad always taught like remember the only weapon we have is scripture because Jesus never beat Satan he told them this is what scripture says it is written that's why I love that story I can still hear my dad preach that sermon. But when I read that, I don't we're talking like maybe six weeks ago, that the spirit led him into the wilderness to be tempted. I was like, oh man, please don't lead me into the wilderness. I certainly went to the wilderness for a while. But if that's where I must go,

so be it. Right. But now I'm so much better prepared. I'm not afraid of the wilderness at all. like like like uh yeah that's that's that's a that's that's that's that's you on that for a while but it's we talk about the we talked early about the crap that's you know all the crap that's around us and and I think that's the same it's the same thing it's not it's not coincidence that all this crap is happening like the government shall be upon his shoulders like I think and you know he can turn the hearts of princes we have the government Like it is God is the one who puts our governments in power. So we have a government that we deserve.

We have like we have a government that's making us, uh, poor, right? Yeah. Um, we have a government that's, that's like really trying to take limit our freedom to like really. Constricting us. Constricting us. Well, what do we, we're looking for, we're looking for a way out. We're looking for freedom.

We're looking for peace. We're looking for. And, and there's really no hope. Like we're, it's, I think that we're being, I think that we're being judged by God, by our government. He uses things on earth to, to come against us. And I think that if we, if we repent and by, I mean, we, I mean the nation, but I mean individuals in the nation. Because a nation can't repent. It means men all over our nation, um, deciding to go to church and, you know,

come under the Lordship of Christ and, and, uh, and pursue, um, reconciliation. He used reconciliation. I love that word. I mean, it's, it's, it's an accounting word, but it's, it's, uh, it's a zero balance. That's a, that's a sum total, you know, that it's, it's zero. There's not the balances is, is dead even because, um, no matter how much sin we put in our side, Christ paid for it on his side. And so we're reconciled.

The debt is, is zero. And we just need men to be doing that. And then, and then we can actually, uh, not be under judgment. You know, we, and we may, it's, it may, it may, we may stay judged for a time to, until, you know, but, but we're not going to be blessed while we're killing off our. seniors and are unborn. Like that's just not. No. Yeah.

The stat that Blaine told me this morning was one in 20. One in 20 Canadians in 2020 in 20, I think is the stat. 1 in 20 Canadians that passed away. So our death statistic was X and one in 20 of those was made. So just under 5%. Which is a dressed up way of saying murder. Murder. Correct.

Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's, yeah. Yeah, no, I don't twinkle toe around it. It's a super sad, it's a super sad event that's somehow allowed by government. That's, yeah, abortion to me is murder. Yeah. As soon as molecule starts dividing, there's life, and if you kill life, you're a murderer. What's it?

I don't care. Like any scientist can argue me on that. I don't care. Let me quickly share something, because you said, we need men, and the thought came to my head about Shadryat, Meshach and Abednego. You know, Nebuchadnezzar tells them, go back to the field in Dora, whatever you pronounce it, and when you hear the trumpets, bowed to that statue, that golden statue that I built. And they just go, nah, we're not doing it. Full well knowing that if you

don't, you die, right? And the other day, being in a conversation with somebody and it's like, like, well, how much of this abuse can you take, Gary? Like, well, and it was just the personal thing that happened. And I said, I don't know why it has to be the Holy Spirit. Again, that's the only way I listen. I get slapped upside the head and I go, okay, sorry, father, I'm good. But the story I shared when the guy was like, how do you keep going? How do you keep patient?

How do you sit on your hands? And I'm not always successful at it, but I guess in this gentleman's opinion in this moment, I had the full rights to have somebody else owning shit. And I said, man, when I think about the story of Shadrach Mishak and Abednego, the king didn't throw non-believers in the furnace. He threw believers in the furnace. And that's powerful because if he threw non-believers in the furnace and they survived, they could have chalked that up to witchcraft.

right but he threw people that well he was 100% certain they will not come out of that furnace he did it up seven more like seven times more hotter betterer terrible english and uh threw him in there and the only things that came off of them was the rope or the leather or the whatever that he used to tie them up that came off of them not a hair scorched on them they didn't smell like that can only be choked up to the God that they believe in. You know what I mean? So it's so powerful. It wasn't the unbelievers that had to go through the furnace. It was the believers. So when I think about you saying submit to God, humble yourselves and pray and I will heal your land, I'm not too concerned about the unbelievers in the sense that we as

believers have this promise, this promise of humble yourselves and pray. And I will heal your land. And I'm starting to ask, are we humble? Are we praying? What are we praying for? I asked myself the question, what did Daniel pray for in the upper room? Under the ban, the prayer ban, what did he pray for? Did he pray for God to lift that?

pray for a government to come to their senses or did he pray, Father, give me the strength to walk through the lines then if I have to. Because he knew the consequences of praying in the upper room. He didn't stop. He didn't go pray at a different time. He went at the same time to the same place and opened the same windows. Therefore rats found him and ratted him out. Right? And I think we can take that page from our Muslim brothers and sisters. And listen, whether we agree or disagree politically or whatever, one thing Muslim brothers and sisters do is they pray daily. The ones that are faithful followers of their faith,

they even pray facing east. And we as Christians are like, well, I can pray any time. I just do it while I'm in the shower or just, you know, Just quickly before supper or after dinner or whatever. Well, I'm falling asleep. Yeah, I'll just pray while I'm falling asleep. I'll just enter the throne room and kind of fall asleep while I'm in the throne room. Right.

Right, yeah. And I think about that. I like, it's just like humble yourself and pray and I will. Not maybe I could or I'll think about it as humble yourself and pray and I will. that I'm sorry that's red letters you know that's God's voice

I think we're boxing with kids gloves in the world and I'm just tired of it I'm not I'm not gonna even try and go from the conversations of Luke Warren versus red odd and it's like

it's like the longer we sit in a pew and we just go amen amen praise God sing a song dismissed, put a $10 dollar bowl in the offering plate on the way out. If we play that game,

Satan has nothing to worry about. He's just standing at the back and go, they're all lukewarm. I know what God does with lukewarm. I don't have to worry about it. I don't have to attack them. Become red art. Stand up for what you believe in.

Then all of a sudden Satan is like, hey, I'm here to annoy you. And then it comes into how do we pursue that battle, right? Yeah, we want to be dangerous to him. I am dangerous to him. Listen, I grew up in a reformed church. The Holy Spirit was pretty much hidden behind the mop bucket in the janitor's closet. Nobody, please don't find the Holy Spirit.

They talked about them, but you did not touch a person to lay hands on them and pray for healing. Because if it happens, it's you that did it. basically that it's probably a very dumbified theology that I'm preaching now. So part of me being in a club that's ecumenical that means everybody that believes in God, the Father Almighty can be part of the club. Everybody, anybody that claims Jesus Christ, the Savior can be part of the club. I have a bunch of Pentecostals around me, like happy-clappy Pentecostals. And they do things like spiritual warfare.

And I'm like, okay, I'll dig into this because I don't want to be left out of the conversation. So pride, right? I'll dig into this because I don't want to be left out of the conversation when I talk about it. So recently I took a class and one of the suggested readings was a book by Kenneth Agan. Now, I don't know much about Kenneth Agan other than he was one of the key members in the early Rima church. And I was familiar with Rima Church in South Africa. So I was like, I can read that. That because they very Holy Spirit focused, right?

So the book he wrote is called Believers Authority. And I was like, what is that? Because I'm told to be humble and, you know, well, the Believers' authority, if we think about it, and it makes perfect sense to me now, he tells it like this. So the Bible teaches us that we are the body and Christ is the head. So Christ ascended into heaven. Where's the body? The body should be in the throne room at the right hand of God, the Father Almighty.

So we have access to the throne room through being attached to the head. Therefore, we have authority. What does he teach us about powers and principalities? That Christ was risen or lifted up high above the powers and principalities, and that they will be the footstool. So we become dangerous against powers and principalities because we have the authority as part of the body to address that, to say, in Jesus' name, out.

In Jesus' name, let that be. But that has to glorify God, not us. So when I go now, and I'm excited about it, when I go now to go pray in a hospital for somebody, And I ask, in Jesus' name, healed? That's not me doing it. That's just the fingernail being obedient to the rest of the body. You know what I mean?

It's like you can tell your kids 15 times, cut their grass, and you know they're capable, you know they train, you know they have the lawnmower, it's full of gas, and it will start with one pool. And they don't do it. God's not going to go out and cut that grass. That kid is going to go cut that grass. or you will do it yourself. Why does your kid go cut that grass? Because obedience has reward.

It's the same for us. Obedience has reward. If I ask in Jesus' name for healing, I truly believe we will see healing, whether it's spiritually, mentally or physically. I truly believe when we go in Jesus' name and ask for healing, we will see miracles. But until we ask for it, we won't see it.

I'm waiting for a phone to ring somewhere like, get that guy of your podcast. Any final thoughts, Jens? We don't have to stop. You've got, you've danced between like six things and I'm like, I've got to read the Bible a bit, you know? I think something that really strong for me is I was thinking about it here today, how blessed I am to have a circle of men that will call me.

Like I'll make a Facebook post and I'll take that down. I'm like, no, it's my profile. It's like, take that down. That's not becoming up the brother. that I believe you to be. Like you said with Caleb, he'll tell, at some point you just have to own your. What a blessing we have.

And I suggest you keep your circle small because you quickly find out whether you can trust people or not. Like your tightest brothers, I would say in Christ, has to be close enough that you would have them at your house with their whole family for Christmas.

You know, because I know Christmas dinners can be heated. So I true believe that we have to have those small circles. We will have to gather in masses like Man Camp and encourage each other and go out in our small groups and keep doing the mission. And hopefully we will see a nation that will humble themselves and pray. And then we'll see God work. And you never know what one interaction word that leads. And the Butterfly effect, right?

I go back to Harold Stephan if you're listening I go back to different people like that Tanner and a day's conversations with me and on and on and on it's gone since then Cowboy Preacher coming on and it just continues to evolve or grow or whatever where you want to put it to it and you just don't understand what one

because I think back to Harold that was weird sorry Harold that was weird I think I even said that to him that was weird I was weird I was like sure you know I think even his kids thought of it's weird. I think Harold is proudly weird. I think he is.

Yeah, I think you're right. Harold, he's happily weird. You know what's funny? He came on here and told his story. And I've been told lots that's probably the best podcast I've ever done, right? And it's him meeting an angel or, you know, go back and listen to it. Right. I mean, Harold Stephan, folks.

Yeah. I didn't believe in those physical presences until I lived through it myself. I probably two years ago now I just started doing spiritual warfare and stuff and for the first time I'm rebuking things to leave my house right spirit of pride spirit of anger stuff like that right and one night I'm fast asleep but I'm wide awake you know like normally if people ask me in the morning what did you dream I would be like I have no idea anyway so one night, I'm sleeping, and all of a sudden there's this 450-pound gorilla sitting on my chest. And the first thing I want to do is fight, right? And I realized I can't move. Like, there's no, but like it felt like that thing was pushing me through the mattress. And the only way I could I could get out of it, and I remember it vividly, was sneak my hand between the sheet and the duvet. and I touched my wife and I said,

you got to wake up and read Psalm 91. If you want to, we can do that. I'm not, my phone's off. But I didn't know what Psalm 91 said or nothing. I just said, babe, wake up and read Psalm 91. And as soon as she, I believe she opened her phone because it was pitch black dark in the house. She went to Psalm 91.

And I don't know if she came through three lines, boom the heaviness was gone and yeah if you have it there read Psalm 91 for us well you know it'd be lovely if my internet would work okay there we go oh perfect

you know it's like are we gonna Elon Musk he needs internet in Lloyd Minister Alberta sponsored well and while you're looking that up like they're the uh for the people that don't have

they don't wait Psalm 91 right yes Psalm 91 okay Does it matter what version I read it in? I have no preference. Okay. He that dwelleth in the secret place of the Most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. I will say of the Lord, he is my refuge and my fortress, my God, and him I will trust.

Him will I trust. Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler and from the noisome pestilence. He shall cover thee with his feathers and under his wings, shalt thou trust. His truth shall be thy shield. buckler thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night nor for the arrow that flyeth by day nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness nor for the destruction that wastes at noonday a thousand shall fall at thy side and ten thousand at my thy right hand but it shall not come night an I thee sorry only

with thine eyes shall thou behold and see the reward of the wicked because thou hast made the Lord which is my refuge even the most high thy habitation. There shall be, there shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling, for he shall give his angels charge over thee to keep thee in all thy ways. They shall bear thee up in their hands lest thou dash thy foot against a stone. Thou shalt tread upon the lion and the adder. The young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet, because he hath set his love upon me. Therefore will I deliver him, I will set him on high because he hath known my name. He shall call upon me and I will answer him.

I will be with him in trouble. I will deliver him and honor him. With long life, will I satisfy him and chew him my salvation? That's, you have to forgive the old English. Yeah. I recently started reading King James too. My one teacher is of the opinion that no Bible is worthy of study other than the King James Bible.

So I get it. Well, I, sorry, there's your, you're talking about, um, right. Well, I don't know, a grill on you. And that's, I mean, I was not surprised. Like every time I read Psalm 91, every time I share that story, I'm not surprised that Satan flees because in my house, we sit in the presence of God and we choose to dwell in his throne room. And he's not welcome there.

So I can literally shoe him like the new puppy that people, on the carpet and say, get out. In Jesus' name, get out. Right. And it's not because you're six foot five. No. It's because you're relying on the living word of God. Amen. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. No, six foot five has very little to do with it. I think we talked about it in the first podcast when I visited you was I remember I was a nightclub dancer for a long time. And I remember every time we had to walk into a situation and trust me, England, soccer crowds and South Africa rugby crowds can get into it. And they get into the part of life that I enjoy, right? And I remember every time we walked into those situations, I had these weird butterflies. I'm sure it's the same on the ice because it's the same on a rugby field. When it goes, there's butterflies, but it's time to roll, right? I get saved. I tell all my balancer buddies,

hey, man, I'm saved. I love Jesus. You can imagine how weird that conversation. was and everybody told me don't worry you'll be okay by next Friday and then it kept going right I broke up with a girlfriend that I chased to church I kept going to the same church relationship was both you know basics was taught and a lot of grace was shown to Gary and I kept going and I kept going and man I can't remember what the event was it was Either Twickenham, which is a rugby stadium in England for the Canadians, and South Africa lost to Britain in a test match, or it was Chelsea and Man United in a premiership soccer match.

But it went up in flames that night, because we were working in London, and let's just say my team did not win. And there was many others whose team didn't win. And they decided, I believe it was Chelsea versus Manu because it was soccer related. But anyway, the fight broke out and it was chaos. Like we, I mean, any balancers normally outnumbered

150 to 200 to 1 because how bars can hold thousands of people and there's 5 or 6 of us working. But I remember walking into that situation, finding like what I believe is the firm, the huddle of guys that rose it up. And just getting rid of him, and it immediately went quiet. And everybody was like, are you nuts? They had bottles and knives.

And I was like, I didn't even think about that. I saw the instigator, and I took care of the instigator, and calmed right down. And then I realized, dang, I had zero fear of any man, and it's not because I'm six foot five. It's because I knew, like, I get paid to do this job, and I have to do this job. It becomes more like riding a pedal bike or driving a car at that point. And I was just like, that problem has got to come out. Those seven guys has got to leave now. Right?

And then... Still very... It's mind-boggling. Mind-boggling. Because I'm trying to make sense of it. It makes no sense to me. I mean, I've been in some sketchy situations, dancer in South Africa, in the 90s when everything changed in South Africa.

Africa. People are like, do you have a firearm with you? I don't need one because I'm probably going to die in a drive-by shooting. You know, I'm going to have no say in it whether people shoot at me or not. Right? Like, it's, but I wasn't saved at that time. I, you know, I had this weird, puky feeling in my throat every time somebody asked me, and then you hear about drive-bys and you hear about stuff that happens.

And it's not even involving the security at the door. It's literally I'm mad at the club owner because he said you can't deal your drugs in my club. And, you know, that kind of thing. And now it's like, I guess I go into situations where I should be scared, but I'm just not because I know Jesus loves the aggressor as much as he loves me. And I might be the last chance the aggressor has to see a little bit of Jesus. really appreciate you boys coming in I don't know

I don't you know I have these ideas well I don't know I'm like did I have the idea or not it doesn't matter I'm like I would think about this for a long time right because I interact with a whole group of men now

that we're not there a year ago or two years ago wherever the time frame is I kind of mix up times is now or the how long it's been like I want these people to interact just feel

feel like they need to interact more, right? And one of the cool things about having a podcast is I can make it happen, because I can just invite you in, make you have coffee and start talking. And I don't know, maybe nobody, maybe people listen to this are like, that was a waste of an hour and change, almost two hours. Or maybe they're like, that, you gotta do it again.

I don't know. I guess they'll let me know one way or another. It doesn't really change my thoughts on it, because I really enjoy listening to you guys, talk about your experiences and where you're at in life and sharing some of your journey. And, well, I just enjoy it. So I appreciate you guys coming in and doing this.

Any final thoughts before I lay out of here? Well, I think we should encourage your listeners and your viewers that they have to like and subscribe before they're allowed to comment. Sure. Then we will, like, if you are liked and subscribed by that person, we will interact in the comments. Welcome to that. Thank you for having it.

If you're watching on X, retweet it. Because one of the things that one of the things that happens in my world is if you don't get people committed to like an action, which is simple as just pushing a button so other people can share or see it, sorry, is

like some of these have exponential growth. It's quite wild. I was saying to you guys before we started, I think, that maybe it was just Gary. I can't remember now. But regardless, that the number one episode of 2024, I won't spoil it

because I once again don't know if this will release before December 31st. It should. Actually, I know it well, but regardless of that way, I can't spoil it. On December 31st, I count down the top 25 episodes of the year. And the number one episode this year

has... So far. So far has well over 120,000 eyes on it. You think about that. You're like, I want to make this very clear, folks. That's not... episode. I'm like, what the heck happened there? You look at it. It got shared. People enjoyed the content. So if you're enjoying the content, share it because we're not the CBC, we're not Fox News,

we're not take your pick. I don't get to blast this just on everybody's TV screen. It really relies on the audience to help move it along. So if you're enjoying it, like Gary said, like subscribe, share all the things because it really does help. And, you know, I can't believe I have an episode that has that many people that have stared at it. It's kind of wild to think about it, to be honest. I don't know if it's possible. Where's the electronic geeks? But can I, like, copy a link on X and post it on Facebook?

Will it cross-pollinate? Well, you don't even need to do that because it'll air on Facebook. You can just... Oh, no, I know that. But I also have an X account. And I have... So I got a Twitter account back in the day when... Well, that pre-pre-banked...

people that took, like that's where we stirred each other up, you know. And I lost that account because I may or may not have done too much stirring. So, you know, thank you Elon Musk for buying X. And I got it back and I chose to use social media differently. So I want to make sure that everybody on X sees it and everybody on Facebook sees it. And, you know, if a thousand times a thousand people shares that a million people will see it. So I mean, I certainly, I will certainly ask on my social media that the people in my realm share the post and, and get people out there and watch it. And hey, if you have a problem with it, you can comment on my page all you want. I don't mind. It's part of life. I bet if people have a problem with it, they haven't

listened this long. This is going to be my guess. I've posted my phone number on some posts that I wrote and I've had some phone calls. Like, hey man, you said this on Facebook. Like from Iowa. I don't know a soul in Iowa. Right. I do now, but it's, that was weird. Like, I was like, hey, if you have a problem with what I said, here's my phone number.

And now everybody says, don't post your phone number on Facebook. Too late. You know? I'm happy to have the conversation because I love Jesus and I don't say, You have to love Jesus. I just think you have to give it a fair shot and investigate it. Go search truth because the Bible says, I am the way, the truth, and the light. And so if you search truth, you will find God.

I don't care who you are. Otherwise, you haven't found truth. That's my opinion. No, that's my journey. That's certainly my journey, right? Trying to find what's behind the curtain. And then being introduced to a lot of things behind the curtain. Right, and then you're like, do I want to go behind that red curtain?

You know? Unless you're adventurous. Well, and the problem with me is the first time that, you know, well, I mean, you can see it, right? I mean, people can see the picture. The first time there was alcohol involved. There was things involved where I'm like, right. They're not so, holy spirits. Yeah, that didn't happen.

And then the next time it happened, I was completely stone soap. and I'm like, oh, God, this is actually real. Right. Right? Like, this isn't something in Sean's imagination. Yeah. Like, this is actually happening. And here's the thing.

The further I get away from that experience, the more I'm like, that actually happened. And I have to remind us, oh, that really happened. That was a wild, wild experience to sit across the table from a shaman and have, like, out-of-body experience, if you would. Like, that's... Yeah, you know, and, and I, I've had some, I remember at one point when I was cleaning up, I guess you might say.

I remember seeing a different face in the mirror, some things like that, you know, that, uh, but for the people that don't have those, the people that don't have the gorilla on their chest, like the thing that all of us still are relying on solely is, is the word, like the God's word, the Bible and prayer. If you don't have these, it doesn't make, it doesn't mean that you, you don't need to go looking for those things. Like those things are, it's actually better that they don't happen to you. If you're, if you're so saturated in the word and prayer and it's, it's okay if they're not happening. Well, they don't happen. In my world, they don't happen anymore, right?

Yeah. And that's okay, right? Like, it's not, it's not like we have to, um, it's okay if things are a bit boring as well. Like, um. But I think what Gary said, like, if you, if you're sitting there, and you're, I don't know, I don't know. Just in my world. There's a lot of stirring.

The lukewarm, you know, the lukewarm story? Well, I'm, I just in my world, if you're not even reading the Bible, right? But you're curious. Your curiosity, just follow it. See where it goes. Amen. Right? Like, that's where I sit.

I don't, I didn't, you know, I grew up in a church, but I ran as far away from church as humanly possibly could into everything and more of what you guys are talking about. I wasn't a bouncer. I didn't go fighting, but I grew up in a hockey dressing room and there's. Yeah, you had lots of fights. Don't worry. I just I went a different way and the thing that brought me back wasn't searching for God it was searching for truth it was like right and then and then it's like well you go down that road

far enough and you're going to land on some things you can land on God because he is the way the truth and the life and you're going to have some inconvenient truths coming in your life and you got to wrestle with that and then think about your jih Tzitsu journey yeah the only way you ever I hate to tell you Sean, but you might be too old to do it. Now you're going to prove me wrong. But if you ever intend to be a black belt in Jiu Jetsu, in whatever school you are, whether you're in the Gracie Jiu Jetsu or whatever, if you ever intend to become a black belt in Jiu Jetsu, what do you have to do? Show up every day. If you ever want to play hockey in the NHL, what do you have to do? show up every day

I think reading our Bible and prayer is sometimes like show up every day it's not the game where you had the hat trick or where you pin the world champion or like you know like the high it's not the high peak it's the valleys where we have to stay faithful we have to stay on the ice we have to dribble the puck we have to get past the goalie

you know we have to do the push-ups we have to do the setups We have to embrace the sock in order to have that peak in game seven against the Panthers. And sorry, Oillers. You know, we have to. You have to show up every day. Yeah, I know. And that's, I think that's what Caleb is trying to get at. One of the things that I've been the most consistent at in my life has been, has been this.

This is going on six years of broadcasting, and it started out once a week. and now it's five times a week, right? But consistently, I just don't, I just, even if the episode sucks, in my eyes it sucks. It comes out, right? And you think about it, you're building in something that most, well, I can't talk to most people. I certainly didn't have before this.

And what doing something consistently that does trains you discipline and all these different things. And for me, it was lightly searching for the truth. I didn't say that at the start. Yeah. But I certainly have been on this path. for a very long time. You go back and, well, I have. I've listened to a lot of different things. I'm like, I can just hear it trickling out of me, just ever so slightly. I'm looking for something,

and I don't know what I'm looking for, and eventually it slams India. Right. But what is any man's real desire where, like, for me, any man's real desire is to find the place where I can go, I know that I know that I know, you know. You know? the sun rises in the east, the earth is round, God is real, and then nothing, you know, nothing else really matters. Even if you believe the earth is flat, then, you know, we can have an interesting debate about it, but if you find truth that you, man, I'm going to get emotional about it, like, once you find truth, it really doesn't matter. It's like people that tell me, like I will read scripture and they would literally sit there and go I don't like that

and I'm like well I don't really know if scripture cares whether you like it or not this is the only word of God and it says you shall not or you will not so I don't really care if you like it or not but you can take that up with God but until then you better make sure you get to meet him if you want to take it up with them you know I just don't so once we truth, I believe it's like, really doesn't matter what other people think. If we know beyond the shadow of a doubt, it's true. That's where I stand. Yeah, I agree. But you mentioned something as well, we're building. Like you said, you're building this thing. I think that we're all, everybody's building something and whatever it is. People say, I don't, I don't want to get

into religion. I don't want to get into politics. I don't want to talk about those things. They still are. It's just a religion that sucks because it's one that has no truth and it's just whatever they come up with in their head. They're still building something. They're still producing something and they're passing it on to their family or the people around them. And so I think that if it helps for people to understand that we are by nature creating things and we're either We're creating bad culture and bad religion or we're creating good things. But we're not going to do that without truth. We're not going to do that without the truth that Gary keeps talking about, which is the Word of God.

And so, yeah. I believe that with every fiber in my body. And for your business, I believe, because you started with the search for truth six years ago, here you are and you have a little bit stronger walls and a little bit bigger. studio and a little bit better equipment because you searched truth. Well, I remember listening to that episode, that first one with Tanner today, and I was like, man, this is, uh, like I was like, Sean doesn't know what he's in for. Like, this is going to be amazing, you know, this is, uh, you pull on this thread and, uh, and

yeah, it's been, it's been, uh, it's just been a lot of fun watching the episodes and, and seeing, uh, Just seeing things change. Yeah. Just watching that, watching you pull that thread. Oh, that's the biggest adventure of life. Yeah. Oh, like, I remember the first show with a cowboy preacher. He started giving you a tip of a thread and you ran with it.

And I was like, be careful now. You're going to get tangled in that, literally. Well, you know. I'm glad you did. I have three different moments where I'm praying. And the last one is sitting on my deck. I mean, I've prayed a lot since then. but like that really stick out at the very, very beginning.

Right. And I always joke, right, that I'm, like, I'm, you know, the people not watching, you know, I'm kind of like looking up, like, can we just not make it boring, right? Because in my brain, being Christian is boring. I don't tell you what. And it's anything but. And be careful what you ask for because, you know, like,

I said I wanted an adventure and at times I'm like, I can't believe I said that, right? Like, go back to that because, like, you know, like you say, you pull on a thread, and you pull some more on that thread, and you're like, oh, boy. And then you read some of the scripture. Like, oh, man, that is a heavy load.

That's a heavy burden. I mean, it is and it isn't all at the same time, right? Yeah. It just slams into you. And it is anything but dull on this side. And I think one of the things that I was very wrong about as a younger man is I looked at Christians and I thought they had no fun. Or I say it that way. I just mean it was dull or, you know, like, I don't know how to put it any different.

It just, I didn't think there was any adventure there. Oh, boy, you should come with me for a week. I'll show you around. Well, you don't have kids at home anymore? When I don't have kids at home anymore, yes. Well, you know, it's funny. No, no, no, no. It's like you said that you were worried that it's not an adventure.

I have a kid and walk around with a kid and see how much grace and murder. and love and help to search for truth and I don't know how you guys do it with more than one I have one miracle I ask God if you give me this miracle I will raise her for your kingdom for your glory I tell you I don't know how you guys do three or four and seven and eight like I've heard some numbers in this last week I five men that have more than three that's for sure but I can't speak for Taylor but I feel like a duck most days some days some days I look like I got it all together, right? Hair is combed, teeth

or brush, got a nice clean shirt on. And other days, I'm sure I look like a train wreck. But any of the days you find me, the feet are going about 100 miles an hour, and I'm just acting like, yeah, I got it together. I got it together. Right? Like, it's, I don't know. It's the greatest. If you don't have kids,

I hope you will. Yeah. Because you don't know what you're missing. Because that is the greatest adventure of life. Oh, 100%. All the days in the bar. and all the, you know, Mel and I were talking about this, like two night, nah, maybe a week ago. Watching a show, it's about college. And she looks at me and she goes, would you go back to college?

No. She goes, would you go back, you know, like different times? I'm like, all of them have been great. But the biggest lie ever told to me was the funnest days of your life for high school or junior hockey or college, or it doesn't matter, all these, all these times. and it was my wife who taught me this before I'd ever ever read the you know really read the Bible

is we went for a camping trip just ourselves and I was like I know just by ourselves I want to be around people you know whatever and it was a ton of fun like I couldn't believe how much fun it was and I continue to learn how much fun being a dad is being around your family is

like this past summer we went for 24 day road trip together which people think you know in today's world you're insane for but the people who have kids and do the things like that they're like how much fun was that i'm like so much fun yeah like i mean being around my family has been so much fun it pushes me and stretches me beyond my limits all the time it's it's crazy i i got into this whole um functional lifted trucks with like a real suspension that has a purpose and build winches on like i love backcountry and stuff so i built this fort truck put winches on it

you know, drawers in the back, canopy on the back. And to this day, my daughter remembers that even though we almost died from hypothermia, we went camping at Pierce Lake on May Long. And I remember making fire in the middle of the night so that we will have some heat around to, you know. And the next morning we, we barbecued and we had, you know, lamb chops for breakfast because we were leaving. The tent did not work for May long at Pierce Lake. But it's a highlight.

I remember the day my daughter came into my best friend's house and told me that her feet was flat on the floorboards for the pillion on a motorcycle. A week before that, I couldn't start my motorcycle in my garage. She wanted nothing to do with it. But I told her as soon as your feet are flat, you're allowed to ride with me on the back. That day, we went to Blackfoot and crats.

Calgary, bought all the riding gear, and I could not get her off my bike. Like, now, if she had to pick between road trip with dad on the bike and the end of summer school in school, she'll like road trip. We don't do anything the last three days anyways. Let's go. Right. I'm a terrible dad, though. If my wife ever left me unsupervised, I'll openly confess, my daughter will not go to

school the last three days of school if we're going on a road trip. I'm so excited now because I'm looking at buying a pickup truck again and putting a canopy on it and building a drawer system in the back because we're going camping one way or another we're going camping just because it was such an adventure right do the adventure jents thanks for doing this thanks for having you