Shaun Newman Podcast - #773 - Pat Stedman

Episode Date: January 6, 2025

Pat is a husband and father of two. He is a dating and relationship coach who went to prison for his participation in the January 6th protest. We discuss the leadup to J6, the protest, prison, how it affected his family life and his journey with faith. Cornerstone Forum ‘25 https://www.showpass.com/cornerstone25/ Contribute to the new SNP Studio E-transfer here: [e-mail] Get your voice heard: Text Shaun 587-217-8500 Substack:https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcast Silver Gold Bull Links: Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/ Email: [e-mail] Text Grahame: [phone]

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This is Tammy Peterson. This is Danielle Smith. This is James Lindsay. Hey, this is Brett Kessel, and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks. Happy Monday's, how's everybody doing today? Before we get on to, we got an interesting one today. Before we get there, let's talk some precious metals,

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give it a retweet, share it, comment on it. Man, Did you see that, let's find a way to get Elon Musk to retweet it again. Holy Maconaw, that was cool. Yeah, if you missed that, Elon Musk retweeted one of my tweets. That was, yeah. I hope that is going to be a trend and that happens more. Either way, it was super surreal for that to happen.

Anyhow, let's get on to that tale of the tape. He's an author, dating and relationship coach, and a January 6th political prisoner. I'm talking about Pat Stedman. So buckle up, here we go. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Today, I'm joined by Pat Stedman. So, Pat, thanks for, for, I don't know, answering the call, hopping on and join me today. Sean, it is a pleasure to be on here.

And, you know, I was telling you this a little bit just backstage, but I'm such a big fan of your show. You know, I before I went in the prison and we're going to be talking about that, I would always catch your Tom Luongo, Alex Craneer episodes. Just like, you really put out some. great stuff so it's it's a real privilege to be finally on here well um my hat i don't know and i guess it's a feather in my cap of folks but i'm like i find that really odd because here i'm sitting across from a guy who's paid the ultimate price um and i'm like all i've done is just stumble into some of these conversations and certainly um i'm i stumble into this one a bit as well though in saying that since i started following on twitter i'm like holy diana this is going to be

somebody who's probably right up my alley you know if i go back though to well no let's start with your story pat and then i'll all add a couple things in i want to get honestly i just want to folks i just want to hand them the football i want to sit back i want to put my feet up i want to sit and hear the story of pat how on earth uh you got to where you were and then and then the aftermath of that um but i do appreciate the compliments i mean it's it's an honor to have you on this side in my opinion yeah so i guess the the long and short of it is uh I'm a dating relationship coach for men. So I had kind of like a decent social media following.

And I started talking a lot in 2020 about first COVID and then a lot of the election related stuff with the theft of the 2020 election. And really like turn my platform, especially after the election itself into like a rallying point for, you know, wanting to stop to steal. through the legal process and, you know, really hoping that this stuff was going to get revealed before Biden would be able to take office. So if you kind of know the timeline of that after the election, you had the Supreme Court case, which the Supreme Court declined to hear, not based on the merits, but just declined to hear it. And then you had the electoral college date,

December 18th. And then the last sort of step was January. January 6th, which is certification of the electoral vote. And what we wanted and what the purpose of the rally was, was basically to have the states to have a pause so the states could go and, you know, review what had happened. And this was happening. A lot of the legislators at the swing states like Pennsylvania and Michigan had been asking, hey, hold off on the certification.

We want to look into these anomalies. So I came down there, you know, as this kind of mini influencer, I guess you could say, and really came down there to support President Trump, watch a speech. And he had every, he said everybody, you know, go down to the Capitol, peacefully protest down there. And so I'm walking down the strip. And as I get towards the Capitol, I hear all these people. people, you know, I start to see all the smoke in the air, and people are shouting, the police

have been attacking us. They started firing tear gas at us and rubber bullets. People were like freaking out. It just happened out of nowhere. And we were already pretty angry because we found it at that point that, you know, they had declined to certify it. So, I mean, they had declined to send it back to the states that they were going to push it through. And so, you know, I think, it was a lack of prudence on my part. You know, you could call it like a little bit of like youthful recklessness. But when I saw like the whole crowd of people going into the building, for me, that was like, like I wasn't going to be the guy who wasn't going to take the protest into the building. I wasn't going to be the guy. Like if we had this crowd of people going,

I wasn't going to be the one to not go. Because I really considered this like a pivotal moment in history. And I knew that the election theft was going to have some serious consequences for the country. So I went in the building. I didn't do anything. I shouted inside the building. Mostly just walked around, though. When you got inside the building, the police were just standing around, and, you know, I got waved through into Pelosi's office. I did a little loop around, walked out. Anyway, I didn't think that anything was going to come of it because I didn't attack anybody. I didn't really do shit. You know what I mean?

When they, at one point in the process when I was in there, I had, like, everything was relatively calm. And I'm coming down a stairwell. And I have these, like, plain-closed police officers pointing guns at me. And I don't know what's going on. And I find out, I'm like, what the fuck are you guys doing? I go around the corner and then there's another policeman. there and I ask them, why do they have guns?

Like pointed out people. They looked like some like special section. You know what I mean? Like it's like a secret service kind of agent. And they said a protester's been killed. So you should get out of the building. So I went towards the exit at that point. I sat on a bench for a few minutes and then left.

So that was Ashley Babett, of course, who if I had taken a, if I had continued going straight instead of going up a stairwell, I probably would have been right there when it happened. Because I found out later on, you know, I had no idea who she was, that she was around the same kind of wave as me. So anyway, I say all this stuff just to indicate that, I really didn't, you know, I was loud, but I was public about it. Because I thought it was a public building.

And I really didn't think that you're breaking the law unless, especially with the crowd that size, unless you were actually like, damaging things, you know what I mean, unless there was some kind of, but, so nothing happened while Trump was still president, but I found out later on, I mean, well, basically the day after Biden was inaugurated, so the day after inauguration day, the FBI came to my house and, you know, raided my house and arrested me. and that war and had been signed like three hours

in the Biden's presidency. So that started me off in this whole process. Initially, it was just two misdemeanors and I was fortunately able to stay out on release at that point. But then I got superseded over the summer with two more Class A misdemeanors now. And I also got superseded with a felony, which is the 1512 obstruction of an official proceeding felony,

which was later overturned by the Supreme Court. So that gives you like the kind of backstory with it. I was fighting all this stuff in pretrial. I took the case to trial. I blew trial. You know, I thought we did a great job, but it was a D.C. jury almost nobody's been acquitted. And in October, 2023, I went to prison.

I spent a year in prison. I got released this past October because the Supreme Court overturned my felony on unconstitutional grounds. But the prosecution was trying to put me in prison for six and a half years. Before we get to prison, before we get to any of that, I'm like, before all this goes down, I don't know what year you want to pick. I don't know if you're at 2015. I don't know if you're at 2020. You know, like, at what point, you know, you're a dating and relationship coach.

right you're worried about those things you know and i when i listen to your story i'm like oh man it almost gives me a little bit like my hands almost get clammy because you know when i went to ottawa i was about as naive as it got didn't think there's a you know we're just going there to park up front of a building like what's going to be the big deal oh the big deal is uh you're standing up to the machine and the machine does not like that and and and here in canada we've we've had um you know our our version of what you're you're talking about right i'm listening to this and i'm like oh this is like kind of you know deja vu or or something along that lines it's it's reminiscent of of uh the experience i've had even the words you use so i i guess i'm like okay rewind the clock before you go january 6th right i don't know

is it the election i assume not because i assume you just didn't show up to the election going oh yeah and and then you look at the numbers and you go oh it's been and then and all of a sudden you're at january 6th i could be wrong walk me through a the lead up to this because to me, I feel like I'm missing parts of the story. And to maybe to remind the listener who's been listening since the start, you know, you go back

to 2019, Sean's interviewing hockey players. When January 6th is happening, I'm interviewing Steve McIntyre, who was a former fighter of the Emmington Oilers and a couple other teams and I didn't understand the significance of what was happening there

at all. So I think about that and I'm like, man, I was a solid year you know you talk about me having tom and alex knows on it has been a bit of um an education by fire hose so like what leads like walk me through before that pat how did i get to january six from from the election what was the moment you're like something is this is very off like was it was it the election or were you already on this path quietly starting to stare at some things going something ain't add enough well Well, I was a Trump supporter from very early on.

So you go back to, I never watched any of Trump stuff like when he was a celebrity guy. I always thought those kind of people were clowns and never paid any attention to it. In fact, when I found out he was running in June of 2015, I just, you know, it was very like black pill for me. because I was already looking at the prospect of like Jeb versus Hillary and I was like, okay, now we have this like celebrity guy coming in here to try to, you know, prop up his brand using like the president's stories. But even even before, sorry to interrupt, even before Trump, you were a political guy. Yes, but I wouldn't say that I was a conservative political guy.

I campaigned for Obama in 2008. And I voted for him again in 2012, although not quite. so enthusiastically at that point. At that point, I was sort of a little disillusioned, but I still wasn't... I was kind of... I was really a political independent. I would split ticket. I tended to vote Republicans in state races and Democrats federally.

2014, I became thoroughly disillusioned with the Democratic Party on the immigration issue. When it became apparent to me that they were arguing in bad faith, I don't remember the details anymore, but I remember that there was some deal that they were going to be, that they had agreed to make initially before the midterm elections with Republican Senate.

And then after the midterms, they just totally reneged on it. And it was apparent to me that they had no interest in actually trying to solve the issue. But, but I still, what's that? No, no, no, no.

Continue your thought. No, I was just, but I still wasn't, like enthusiastic about the Republicans either. It was, it was like you just had this. And I'm trying to put myself back in the mindset then because obviously so much has changed. Like you can kind of rewrite exactly how far along

you were with things. But I just remember in early 2015, that was one like the woke cancel culture stuff, started to really kick into gear. And I was very like disturbed by it. But it really didn't seem like there was much you could do. At that point, like, the cultural conquest of the left had been really established. And I wasn't even at the time, like, it was almost confusing because it's kind of like, you know,

I didn't have an issue with the gay marriage stuff at the time. So it was like, hey, we're on the same team. You know, we all want the same stuff. And then you start to realize that some of these people really don't. Some of these people really just are, like, they're not operating in good faith. They really just want power. So I was becoming like politically disaffected, I guess you could say. And I remember that summer after like I didn't even watch the first Republican, you know, presidential debate because it just, you know, I wasn't convinced anything positive was going to come out of it. But I remember my aunt was complaining about Trump saying all these mean things to the people on stage and I was like, well, what, what do you say? Why was, what was he saying? He was like talking up

and she's like, yeah, well, he was saying how they're selling the country out to China and how, you know, they have all this, they're pro all this illegal immigration. They won't close the border. I was thinking, I'm like, everything he's saying is true. So I tuned on the second debate and I was really, like, I think it took me about a month to like accept that I had been sold on him. But like I spent all of August 2015 really just like like Trump's pretty cool. You know, that's cool. I'm not sure I'm a supporter, but he's pretty cool. I like what he's saying. And by September, I was like, yeah, I'm a, I'm a supporter. I don't care. And it's funny because in the beginning, no one really cared because they didn't think anything was going to come up. Nobody thought

he was going to win. Yeah. But when, but once he started to actually be perceived as a real contender and the publican nomination, that was like the end of my social network. Like I, and by the end, I had, you know, I was like, I had a lot of friends, I had a lot of friends. I had probably burned 80% of my network at that point. Because you supported Trump. Well, I went to an Ivy League school. So like a lot of the, a lot of that network is really like institutionally opposed. to the things that, you know, they really are globalists.

A lot of the people at Ivy League schools are very intelligent, but they're trained to be the managerial class of the global system. So a lot of them had multiple passports and they were really invested in everything that he was opposed to, basically. whether that's a value perspective or economic perspective. So, I mean, a lot of this stuff I was just beginning to understand at the time because to me it was like, well, this just makes sense. What he's saying makes sense. How could people oppose it? But, you know, you have gradual stages of awakening.

So anyway, he won in 2016. You know, it affected my business stuff too because my network was a big part of my day in relationship coaching business's initial movement forward. So it's like I destroyed my market. I had to rebuild a market basically. But yeah, I mean, I was a supporter all throughout his first term. I could see the various troubles he had. But I could understand at that point that they were attacks from the deep state.

Like all the scandals and the creations. Like you could you could make arguments that he wasn't handling it as well as he could. but I was under no illusions that he was like completely surrounded by enemies. People were backstabbing him left and right. You didn't know who to trust. It was it was a difficult time. So it was apparent that they were going to steal the election with the mail and ballots, that they were going to at least make an attempt at it.

Because there's already been lots of tampering of that with elections already. like you know you can see there's an there's an almost perfect correlation between states that have no voter ID in states that go Democrat in the U.S. I'm not saying that every state would shift, but there's something going on and that's been happening for a while. But the election night 2020, it was apparent Trump was winning. I mean, Trump almost like won Miami, like Miami Dade County. like he was he was sweeping all these states and then it gets after midnight and then you see the votes stop and all the swing states and in Pennsylvania in particular I mean it was bad in all of them but in Pennsylvania 600,000 ballots came in after the election 600 Trump was up like 62% on

election night in Pennsylvania and 600,000 mail-in ballots came in and almost all of them were for Biden. And I looked at all the statistical stuff. Like you have Benford's law, like when you have natural, there's like natural numerical patterns that indicate whether something's been tampered with or not. You know, the election results violated Benford's law. You had, I mean, you had common sense.

Like in 2019, when Bolivia stopped the vote count in the middle of the night, the state department said that they had that they were tampering with the election like it's a known thing that you just don't you you can't just do that and then uh oh now we have 200 000 ballots come in like and all of the challenges were getting dismissed not on their merits but do the lack of standing so you had this like ridiculous situation legal system where before the election people were filing lawsuits saying hey this isn't right how they're behaving isn't is incorrect and you say well you can't do anything because they haven't you know there's no damage yet so you have to wait and then it happens and you

and you file a lawsuit and then they say well it already happened you know we can't reverse what's been done you're like like like so so they'll dismiss it and the media says like election fraud lawsuit dismissed but so people think it's dismissed on the grounds but it's just dismissed saying like we we just don't want to look into this can i Can I throw something out there and maybe I'm just completely wrong. But I find it very interesting to talk to someone who, and I don't know that, you know, everybody calls it waking up or whatever. But you get the point. I'm listening.

I'm like, you're solid five years before me. A solid five. You're probably even more than that, Pat. But just listening to your story, I'm like, oh, man, so you watched it just like kind of play out. And, you know, there's been this big, big discussion. What's different between Canadians? and Americans, you know, and everybody goes, well, the Americans fought for their, uh, their rights and, and, and, and for their, uh, independence and they got all these, you know, different things written in

law. And certainly, don't get me wrong. I get all that. But when I listen to that, I'm like, or you've had a running start, right? Because I'm like, you, you've walked, because like, if, if the Americans are so different than us, why in 2020, when this goes down, didn't everybody go bad shit crazy like just like because they should have but they didn't and and and and and and over time i would assume there's more americans starting to go even if they they think 2020 was on the up and up you're still looking at it going something doesn't sound something doesn't smell right there so by the time you get to 24 you know like everyone they try and kill trump i mean like literally and then and then you know like the election night comes and i just was like they've they've they've

already tried this once everybody knows even if they even if they go maybe maybe it was on the up and up they go something didn't seem right and you have more eyes on it you just all have all these different things now here in canada it takes covid going absolutely insane to finally start to snap some people out and other people and it will be like oh it wasn't that bad no it was pretty good time it wasn't that bad but then the freedom convoy had oh they were insurrectionists they were all these different words but over time you're like something doesn't smell And I feel like Canadians are rapidly starting to question all the narratives, rise of Pierre Poliev, just talking back to some of the reporters. Some people hate that. Some people love it.

But I just wonder if we aren't just a few years behind Americans. Maybe I'm wrong on that thought process. No, I think that that's right. I think all the Western countries, and you can say the world, but there's definitely a, like, there's definitely a Western consciousness. It's all linked together. And so I think it's true that America tends to lead the way with this. And part of it, I think, is because of its cultural dominance in the Western world. But I think related to that is also the First Amendment. Not that other countries, I mean, you're starting to see what happens when you don't have explicit protections in a lot of Western countries, like UK, prime example of that. right now. I mean, they're putting people in prison for tweets. But in the United States,

I think, because it has a more open dialogue, a lot of its thinking, it tends to be first on the field, so to speak. Although I know that in war, the Canadians were usually the first on the field historically, right? That was the case. Well, I mean, you know, like when people say Canadians, you know, too agreeable, blah, blah, blah, blah. Go read some history. history books. Yeah. And then tell me when they go out in all the world wars and nobody wants to go into battle with them, right against them. I mean, I'm like, oh, it's still there, folks. It's just, we've been, we've been sleeping too long. We just, we just, we just thought life, there's no problems here, except all the problems have come to roost on mainly the western

part of the world, right? We, we, if, if we're all in a, a bit of a think tank together, you know, then, then they've been, we've been getting attacked for a long time and nobody's realized. Or I shouldn't say nobody's realized. People have realized it different times. I look at you and I hear your story. I'm like, man, I was asleep all those years. I watched Donald Trump. Didn't think Donald Trump was going to get elected.

Then he got elected. I'm like, huh, well, isn't that something? I'll be the first to say, me and Dustin arguing about this, my brother, Dustin, argued about when Donald Trump got booted off Twitter. I'm like, well, Dost, you just can't say whatever's on your mind. And now I've like, I'm like, I can't believe I said that. I'd like to go punch that Sean in the face. Like I'd like to just be like, Sean, you're an idiot sometimes.

I still am, folks. I'm learning. But to me, hearing how long you've been staring at this is just really, probably from where I sit, really fascinating because some of the words you use, I'm like, oh, man, I know that. I know all about what you're talking about. So I just, it's why I want to pry into what leads you to January 6th, because I think it's really important for anyone, no matter what stage of the journey they're on. Well, so I want to.

wanted everything. I consider the theft of an election to be a crime, right? And so if the government is complicit in stealing an election to obtain power, then the government is committing a crime. So we wanted things to go through all the legal processes. We wanted the Supreme Court to review it. Ken Paxton, the Attorney General from Texas, who filed a lawsuit to the Supreme Court and had like 30 other states, I think it was almost 30 other states signed onto it. It was a great lawsuit basically saying that, you know, the Supreme Court has to adjudicate the fraud in these swing states because it's disenfranchising the other states that didn't have the fraud because they're going to get a different president as a result of what

these other states are doing. And there's a lot of like drama talk about that, about, you know, John Roberts screaming that we can't take this case. We can't take this case. We can't take it. You know, this is leaked rumors because it, the Supreme Court decided to look at it, but then they declined, right, to hear it. So there were definitely, there was definitely some justices like Alito who I think wanted to take it on. But anyway, Supreme Court didn't take it on. So that was kind of hard for me to believe, especially because you had a conservative court. but I understand what John Roberts was afraid of, which is that 2020, the country was extraordinarily politically divided.

I believe that we still had a decisive win, but the left was a very institutionally powerful force. And at that point, they still had very clear control over the media. And so as we went down these various processes, like the Electoral College said that, you know, voted in accordance with the election results. And then you had Congress deciding to certify the electoral vote. And this is a whole other thing about the whole J6 setup, which we can get into because, like, why did that whole thing even kick off to begin with? What was the reason for it? And we can talk about that.

But I thought, like many others, that if Congress did not send it back to the States for review, then Trump was going to sign the Insurrection Act, which he was legally allowed to do. But the Insurrection Act hasn't been signed since the Civil War. So it was definitely a big step. And a lot of the reason we came down there was to try to prevent it from being necessary. You know, we weren't even asking for them to change the results. We were just saying, let's pause and review this stuff. So I really expected Trump to sign the Insurrection Act, but he didn't.

And apparently he almost did. He, you know, and some of this stuff came out in the J6 Select Committee, corroborating a lot of this, you know, this inference, which is, he was, he was, he was, he was, he was, thinking about doing it and even had it drawn up. But apparently he had a meeting in late December with some generals and the generals told him basically if you sign this, the country's going to go into a civil war. Because and you can start to see how it would happen because if the insurrection act, you're allowed to, you start arresting people, sort of arresting, you know, various individuals involved in the fraud, then this group, which is capable of doing all sorts of false flags, you know, you, you start to have like a retaliation sequence where

there's some big protests that they then have. And then, you know, you can just see how things could spiral over the over a course of months. Not to mention at that point in time, they had complete control of the media. Yes. And like any dissident who who voiced any concern on any platform was removed and like you you start to go the war on getting the the message out would have been not in anyone it wasn't in anyone's favor right like i mean um that's a year in advance of probably the darkest time in human history from a canadian's perspective and part of that darkest time was the media blackout that that occurred where you literally talked about anything to do with COVID removed, anything to do with talking about, you know, like the freedom

convoy when it happened, removed. And, and so like that's a year in advance of that. So, uh, to sit there and go, yeah, we're going to go into civil war. And by the way, we're not going to have a media outlet that's going to be on our side that's going to say anything that we're doing is correct. They're going to call you every name under the sun. Oh, wait, they did that too. Um, yeah, I could, I could see, um, the, the debate there at least. Yeah, and, you know, even if he were to have, he'd have the military on his side, but there was a lot of, like, higher brass in the military who absolutely were not on his side. And so you just don't know how this kind of stuff could break down.

It would have been very risky, very chaotic. And in the chaos and in the heightened emotions, no one would really be caring about the truth. You know, it's one of those things that if he had done it, it wouldn't have mattered, I think, even if he was dumping the information out there. They still, because of the way he went about it, a lot of people would tune it out. And the media had done a very good job of like predictably programming Trump as this like fascist who was never going to step down from power. They said it over and over again. He's never going to leave office.

And I mean, and you got to give like the devil is due. They said that over and over again. Then they stole the election. And then they're like, we dare you to stay in. I actually think that they thought he would, though, because it's been my perspective that they've wanted to destroy the country. They haven't, I don't know that they believe that they could fully take it over. I think they just wanted to bring it down and to trash it,

or at least that they would be happy to do that as a secondary backup plan. But anyway, he didn't do that. He stepped down and he really, I think, gave him enough rope to hang themselves. he had some degree of blocking with the Supreme Court and later on with Congress, but really what the last four years was was a mask-off moment. And I think it completely revealed all the fruits and really the true nature of the left. And as somebody who, you know, I was targeted literally less than 24 hours, into Biden's presidency, I'm grateful that he made that decision because I think it was important

for people like me and of course Trump himself to be persecuted in order to let these people overreach. And, you know, I think it took a lot of courage and wisdom on his part. You know, it's something I didn't really have a lot, maybe had courage, but I don't, I think I think I was too impatient. I was very much like if it has to, we have to do it now or it's over. We have to do it now or it's over. And it's almost like I, you know, I wasn't putting enough faith in people at that time that they would wake up from it. But I started to see during, like, even like a few months in the Biden's term, I'm like, you know what, this is actually going to be a good thing. Even if we have to suffer, it's going to be a good thing because they're just so even. and incompetent that there's no way that the public is going to, you know, the public's going to have a visceral reaction against it. And I think you saw some divine intervention because they started to get really desperate as they saw that no matter what they did, you know, trying to throw a lawsuit or criminal charge after Trump still wasn't working. They tried to kill him.

And, you know, you have to, I think to some extent see the hand of God in that stopping that bullet from going through his head. I remember what that happened when I was in prison. I was in prison when that happened. And just it was like, it was exhilarating, I mean, to see it, to see him, to see his response. So I think we're on a great trajectory now, but I was surprised how quickly they conceded the election.

And I think that that it may have been too big. big to rig, it may have been too obvious for them to do the same thing again. And I also think that the factions on the left, you know, Tom, Tom Longgo talks a lot about the factions. And I think that's, it's a really important nuance piece of analysis that these people, in 2020, you had all these factions working together. Whether they were, you were like, Rino, Republicans, they were, they all had the same goal in mind. But that coalition, you know, there's no, honor among thieves. And as the whole plan started falling apart, I think you can see a lot of these people are rushing to try to like posture against each other rather than work together to preserve what

they have. So I don't think that Kamala had the support. You know, and you've seen all this stuff. I'm not sure if you've talked about this on other shows, but it's widely believed that Biden endorsed Kamala in order to, because he got pushed out by the Democratic Party. So he sabotaged them by then endorsing Kamala, who wasn't supposed to go that way, is supposed to go to like the convention and they were supposed to pick somebody more viable. You know, it's all speculation, although I think it's plausible. But the bottom line is that it seems. like in the end they didn't believe that or they they couldn't work together enough to to steal it from this time. But, you know, what are you going to do? Like, I know these people aren't going to

go in quietly into the night. And I think we're starting to see the fruits of the next plan, which is something that I had thought might happen, but which is because of this open border, there are terror cells all throughout the entire country. And I don't know if they're still going to have some mechanism to be able to stop Trump from coming in or stall it. I'm kind of skeptical of that at this point in time. It seems like that's too much anchored into public consciousness that, you know, Trump's president in 18 days. But I think that they are going to try to create maximum chaos for him with all these terror attacks. And it wouldn't surprise me if they start to rug pull on the economy with it too. I mean, you.

You know, I just know that they don't, these people are going to trash everything they possibly can on the way out. But they're in a losing position. You know, like when you do, when you walk through your story, Pat, like I go, well, this has been going on and somebody will chime in. You can go however long you want, right? I mean, this is nothing new under the sun. So you can go that long. Or you can just look over the course of what you're talking. roughly 2014 so that's 10 years you think they're done i don't think they're done and just because

i would agree like i mean unless something really insane happens but at this point in time i i look and listen i live in uh i live up north and i look at our own election coming for justin trudeau and if they stole it let's just let's just play this scenario out i think there's too many canadians paying attention right now i think there'd be all about mayhem i that that's what i think So I don't foresee that. But this isn't a game of like you get Trump elected and he gets in January 20. And all of a sudden, light switch goes on and everything's just kumbaya on life. We walk into, you know, paradise.

It's like, no, it's four years of Trump. And then you have another election. And many things can happen over the course of four years. I'm listening to your entire story and I'm going like, one of the things that I've been, it's been hard for me to grasp because I you know and I tell the story lots at Julie Panessian what was that and I should have her back on this year honestly you know this was this was 2021 I think and she was talking about you know COVID and I was asking her pat you know like how long is this going to go on I was like you know like three months I don't

know six months and she like the look on her face was just like you're an idiot and I'm in fairness folks I'm a big old idiot I'm learning And, you know, since then, probably one of the hardest things I've had to grasp, grapple with or grasp is like, this isn't a day fight. This isn't a month fight. This is any year fight. This could be a decade-long fight. It could be decades.

This could be the rest of my life. And then you have to realize, that's okay. At least I know. And so we press on and we start to pay attention and you look at it. And so when you go, are they going to go quietly in the night? Hell no. No, they're not. they tried shooting a president for Pete's sake.

They've been trying to stir up World War III for, for, you know, now that I started talking with the issue, at least since 2014, at least. So you go, that's been a decade long. Okay. So like, are they going quietly in the night? No. But, but I also think, you know,

where do we sit right now? I've been watching all these different like last gasps of trying to stir up something to, to get it to go their way. And it just keeps, it's like, nope, that ain't going to work. Nope, that isn't going to work. My fear is they're going to get creative

because they're going to learn and they're going to try and do something different. But in the next, you know, short couple of weeks, I mean, all out war is always been my fear. But I see Trump getting in January 20th. That's my own thought. I think it's not a foregone conclusion. I never want to be that sure of anything.

but to me like I don't see I see Trump getting in then I see Pierre Poliyev getting in so now you have those two leaders of the United States and Canada like that that's what I see here in the next in 2025 yeah I don't think that they can sell a narrative of Trump not getting in and there's no you know I heard some rumblings of people saying no we're gonna that they're going to disrupt the elect you know that the certification this year I just I just I just don't see it. I don't see any. When we came down on January 6th, there had been at least a building narrative around it, you know, about going down and having the, you know, the investigation sent back down to the states. So, yeah, I see him getting in too, but what I'm afraid of and I think we're already starting to see is so they've been doing all these false flags, right? And all these, you know, all these. these illusions because that's what they are. They're illusionists at the end of the day. That's how they've operated. That's how they've maintained control. And people are waking up to the illusion. They see what's going on. So when they do a false flag, people immediately are able to ID or at least they're able to shine a spotlight on it and try to find out what exactly is going on. And that's a beautiful thing.

I don't think that these people are able to hold power when they're not in the shadows. When people see what they're doing, it's over. But we are in a very difficult and dangerous time period because when they're no longer able to get away with illusions, they're going to start doing real terror. because even if people start to think they're responsible for it, they still don't know exactly who to hit. They don't, you know, if you suspect the FBI is involved in what happened in the New Orleans tragedy the other night,

you don't know what section of the FBI. You don't know, everything is still like hard to get after, right? And it can still create genuine, terror you know if they if if people are dying if there's actual explosions going off then you can still to some degree influence the population because they're you know they're worried about stuff that's going on now i think all this stuff ultimately backfires big time because what does it do it just creates more and more broad political consensus that this entire creation of these people need to be completely wiped away. And, you know, I think it's been really fascinating that even

just over the last few weeks, you've seen a concept that was considered an impossibility now openly discussed as an inevitability in Western countries, which is remigration. So, I mean, the Overton window is shifting very, very rapidly. In the more chaos they create, in order to maintain control, I think the more they just consolidate the entire population against them. Yeah, it's been, I mean, it's been quite evident, I guess, to more and more people, right? Like, I mean, just go back to the beginning of your story. You walked around the Capitol, right? Went into a couple places.

And for that, they came after you. and, you know, in the first three hours of Biden's presidency. Yet, you know, the hypocrisy is just, it's interesting because, like, you know, if you're a certain nationality right now and you go take over any building, they just stand there and watch and it's not a big deal. Here in Canada, you know, like the Palestinians from India, that group, been very interesting to watch. You got all the different diverse groups marching across all of Canada.

And you're like, what is going on? And the more that the cops just are allowing it, allowing things to happen, allowing insanity to unfold, the more people, wait, didn't we just, don't we have the longest mischief trial ever going on in Canada for two people who drove trucks to Canada, to Ottawa, sorry, to stop probably the worst government in history from, our books, like things don't add up. And when, and when it becomes more and more evident like than more people start to like, take a step back. I'm like, something is, something just ain't

right. I want to, I want to make sure that I, that I don't slide by this. I stopped you when you said FBI showed up, because I weren't really grasp the beginning of your story. But FBI roll on to your place. I assume that had to have been like, what? the heck is going on moment for you and your wife yeah i mean my wife we had a three week old daughter at that point um you know it was it was kind of like funny to some extent and what i mean by that i don't mean it like literally funny but i i woke up in the middle of the night beforehand like around 3 a m and i i just had this like strong urge to pray and i couldn't go back to sleep and I got up and I actually went and took a walk.

I was talking to my friend on the phone. He lived in Europe. So it was like 5 a.m. at that point, easy, easy conversation. I was walking. We were talking about all the stuff that happened. You know, what's coming next now? Biden's president. What's going to happen?

And 7 a.m. rolls around. And my wife calls. And I pick up the phone and she's crying and she's like the FBI's here. I'm like, oh, shit. and they're freaking out because I'm not at home. Like, they think somehow I got, like, the whiff of it, and I'm trying to split. I'm like, no, no, I just, you know, I just went on a walk. So they were, like, freaking out because I wasn't at the house.

So I told them where I was. You know, they came by, local police came by, picked me up, took me over there. The whole street was just filled with cop cars. And what do you, how many cop cars? there must have been like four or five different ones. And when the cops picked you up, what were they saying to you? Like,

forgive me, maybe I'm wrong in this, Pat, but from your story, I don't grasp that you were like a political activist who was out of every protest who was trying to stir up stuff on and on and on. Sir,

you got a social media falling and you've been talking about some things and you showed up to a protest. But I mean, like, like, did the cops drop and go handcuffs and throwing you in the back? and they're like, listen, man, you've done some wrong things. Or were they just as confused?

I don't know. Walk me through this. So the local police, when they grabbed me, when they saw me, they like, swerve the car. You know what I mean? It was very aggressive driving to get towards me because I think that they didn't know initially what to expect. You know what I mean? Like, because the FBI was doing the raid and then they get there and then I'm not there.

And so then they send it out to all the local police department. You've got to look for this guy of this description. So when they came over, I think initially they didn't know how I was going to be. And I was like, hey, you know, what do you want me to do? You know what I mean? Like I was super cooperative. And then the police like pretty quickly started to relax. I think that they, they weren't getting this like agitated energy from me.

And they said, okay, you know, you're respectful to us, we're respectful to you. And, you know, they drove me. It was only like a mile from where they picked me up to take me back home at that point. And I have to be honest, like, I was fairly lucky with the field agent who was running the raid. Because while one of the agents, from what I understand from my wife, was a dickhead, the lead agent kicked the guy off basically and generally ran you know as a fairly respectful rate as respectful as you can be i know that most j-sixers did not have that treatment they had

their doors kicked in they had assault rifles pointed at at family members um i don't know whether is because I have like I'm from like a fairly nice neighborhood. So I don't know if there was some differing perception there and how they wanted to behave. But you know, he was trying to reassure me. He was like, well, you know, when I was at the office getting booked, he's like, well, you know, it's not like you're one of these guys. He's pointing to like wanted criminals on the wall. He may have been somewhat sympathetic himself because he was just a guy around the local field office.

He's not connected to any of the. FBI politics. But I mean, it was still like it was a, it's still an intense experience. I'll tell you that when they have people going around, you know, photographing everything in your house, you know, your, your handcuffed. It's like every, you know, people have all their weapons out. Like it's, it's, it's an experience. And it's, you know, for me, the hardest thing, though was seeing my family members in their response to it. Like, I felt like I aged my father, like 10 years just from the whole thing. It was hard. I've, I'm honestly, it's going to take some time for the consequences of all of it, like emotionally to wear off. You know, people

We'll talk about prison, like, well, if it's prison traumatic. Prison was challenging. It was a hard, difficult situation. There's no doubt about that. But it wasn't traumatic. What's traumatic is having the government go after you. There is something about it that is so, you know, it costs me like over half a million dollars. I've probably lost from this entire thing between legal fees and lost income.

And I was lucky. I was lucky because when I was still out on pretrial, because of the nature of where I had positioned myself in the marketplace, you know, I think it affected my ability to grow my business, but I was still making money. I still had support from people. in my broader community. A lot of these J-6ers, they lost their house,

they lost their marriage, they lost their job. Even now, they still can't get rehired, whether because they have a felony on their record or because some employer finds out they were a J-Sixer and they stigmatize them. A lot of that's changing, but you have some people who, you know, they got a lot of hate in their heart

or they're still brainwashed about the whole thing. But yeah, I mean, and I think that you guys, those of you who are at the truckers protest in Canada and have been undergoing the prosecutions from that. I mean, they do this to you because they want to make an example of you. They want other people to be too afraid to stand up. And, you know, I think, unfortunately, it does have that effect to some extent. but I you know I think it's important if you are being targeted to stand tall and to and to be defiant

and I think in the end the truth comes out I mean look at you know look at Tommy Robinson in the UK right now he was speaking out against those grooming gangs for a decade and they threw him in prison over and over again they threw him in prison again for talking about it and he's vindicated I mean he's he's gonna be Britain's Mandela by a time this is all over. And just a few more years before that's the case. It's already turning. And, you know, we're called to be brave in the face of evil. But I, yeah, man, it's getting targeted by the government is terrifying. It's a terrifying experience. I'm not going to lie about that. it's um so you know like uh the sean that went to and i hate to talk about myself in the third

person i'm not really bug some people so prepare to be bugged uh when i went to uh ottawa i was naive like really naive right going to show up to ottawa we're going to have a friendly protest not a big deal i don't know what the big deal is and when i listen to your story i'm like oh right and i think um you know, when we're talking about protesting anything, you're, and maybe there's people who've had it worse, so you have to extrapolate that out. But if you're going to stand up, you have to basically have the mental fortitude to extrapolate that out as far as you can go. Tommy Robinson is an extreme example, right, of what the government can do to you. Yours is an extreme example. Tamara Leach and Chris Barber and Pat King and all these different folks here in Canada, the Coots Bois.

are examples of what the government will do to you if you try and make an example of what they're doing and their tyrannical overreach and on and on and on. But if you don't play that out, you're doing yourself and your family to service. Because to show up to some of these things, heck, to talk about certain things like this is you're going on probably a list, probably a list you don't want to be on, but you're going on the list. And so when I listen to you, I'm like, man, it's, I feel like, you know, there's probably a whole bunch of people at January 6th or here in Canada or at Coots that showed up, you know, same boat as you, right? Somewhat naive to the consequences of being there and somehow escaped. But one of the things you had over a lot of people was a social media following.

Do you think that's part of the reason why you were made an example of or do you think that had nothing to do? with them. I think it was 100% relevant in the degree to which they went after me. I was not, you know, you have kind of like the top tier celebrity J-6ers, and I wasn't at that level, but I was probably in the second tier. Like, I'm certainly the biggest J-6 name in Southern New Jersey, that's for sure. They, they, My social media was cited as much, if not more than any actions I made. I mean, even in December, so just to give you an idea of their relentlessness, so my felony was overturned.

I was released from prison, and the government wanted me to get put back in prison. They wanted me to have all my misdemeanors resentence. I already served all my misdemeanors. I served my year. they wanted nevertheless for the government for the for the for the judge to go back in resentence me to all my misdemeanors consecutively to try to give me 30 months in prison and you know to the judge's credit in spite of the fact that she was you know and remains very hard on j-sixers this was breaking this was violating double jeopardy and

by a lot of interpretations, and it was breaking federal precedent and she wasn't willing to go there. So she denied it and gave me time served. But I mean, yeah, you don't understand, like, to give you an idea of my naivity with it, I was starting to get the feeling that maybe things weren't going to go well

because at first, when they started arresting people, you're like oh well they're only looking for you know people who appeared to have been doing serious stuff that was the initial impression but then there started to be murmurings that oh they're looking for more people and and so i thought to my wife by i'm like i don't know if they're going to go after me i mean i was very public about it i i you know i posted videos of myself in the capital on social media because i didn't think i was committing a crime i didn't do it i mean i i think it was stupid in some sense. You know what I mean? I understand that. But I really didn't believe that anything I was doing was anything worse than a citation. I had seen how the government treated

protesters before who were like, you know, attacking cops and burning buildings and stuff. They are getting nothing. So for me, walking into a building with 10,000 other people and walking out, I didn't think that there was any, I was certainly not a priority target. I was very wrong about that. I was very wrong about that. And I was still cocky up until it happened. The night before, on my show that I was doing, it's called COVID Cabal. The night before, I actually said, like, I was like, fuck you FBI, come get me, basically. If you guys are going to start arresting people, you know where to find me.

Fuck you, come get me. And they did, like, like 12 hours later. So I really underestimated them. And I think that's just part of the journey in general. And I also want to say this, I mean, I don't regret it. Like it's one of those things that you look back and you say, if I knew what I knew now, you know, I wouldn't have done that. Like how could I have done what I did knowing what would happen?

Like nobody's going to make that kind of decision, right? But it doesn't mean I have regrets about it. given where I was at that time and the information I had and you know what we were up against like I I know that my intentions were pure and And I and there's one thing I do want to mention Sean because I think it's important I'm not sure To what extent the audience understands it, but J6 was Instigated by the government against us and this is something that I've understood more As I've gone through the journey and talk to other people. It was very confusing because you have had that the situation where people are peacefully protesting outside the Capitol and then all of a sudden

the police just out of nowhere, and this is all documented in open source footage, out of nowhere start firing tear gas and rubber bolts into the crowd, start antagonizing the crowd. And I know other J-Sixers who then had, you know, you had people then come into the crowd and say and start to, you know, mobilize people to stand up against the police line. They often got people to face off against the police, and then they disappeared themselves, where they had wristbands and they pointed to the wristband when the police were doing things, and the police didn't go after that person. So there were intelligence assets on the ground on January 6th and ancient provocatories

that were trying to get this whole thing started. And so they got the crowd riled up and then got them going into the Capitol. And then there was like a big stand down order. So then most of the police were just, you know, chill, really. They weren't doing anything. And then all of a sudden, it was the order to engage aggressively again. That's when they killed Ashley Babbitt. And that's when so it was very difficult as a protester to know what was going on.

Because you had this like schizophrenic reaction from the police. And, you know, there's the whole pipe bomb story. Like, what, like, it was a fake pipe bomb. But what was the whole thing with that? Why did the media drop the story? Why can't they find out who the pipe bomber was? I think personally that that may have been a backup plan they had. Because here's the thing.

And again, this is stuff I didn't understand more until later on. There was, we had a lot of congressmen who were going to bring up the election fraud. In the certification process, you had, you know, the usual arguments that go up. Congressmen are able to submit evidence into the record. So these are things that we couldn't get on a court record because the courts would refuse to hear this stuff for standing. We had congressmen who were prepared to start putting into evidence on the congressional record all the fraud that had occurred. And there was a real risk of this stuff spilling over for them. Well, the thing is, if there was some sort of incident and they had the shutdown, you know, they had to do a recess on the certification, which is,

what they did, then they were able to, when they brought back the legislative session, they were then able to do it under special rules where they could be no debate and they could go straight to voting. So by having the January 6th riot, they weren't only able to make it seem like we were trying to overthrow the government and unleash a terror campaign. campaign against their opposition, but they were also able to preclude any introduction of evidence onto record about the election fraud and just get straight to pushing it through in a vote to sort of seal the steel. And I think this is stuff that is going to come out a lot in the next term.

I mean, Cash Patel, the incoming FBI director, has talked about this stuff a lot. He's been a major person who's been, you know, looking into it all. we'll see what happens, but I got caught up and, you know, I should have been paying attention to what was going on more, you know, but they understood emotions. Like, we were really angry. We were really angry and they knew how to set us off. Yeah, it's, I don't even know what to add to that, right? Like, I, it's, it's, there's just a lot going on there, you know? Like, this isn't some make-believe story. Like this is the real deal, you know?

Like, and taken to the utmost, I don't know, degree, I guess. I mean, like, when you, I talk about the government coming down on you, you know, here in Alberta, we've, we've seen the Coots Boys and how that's played out. In Ottawa, we saw how they've been doing with Tamara Leach, Chris Barber, and once again, Pat King and others, like a ton of others. And, uh, the names I don't know is kind of. of like, forgive me, Pat, but are kind of like the Pat's of the world. They had social media following or something that made them stick out and they've had the world go after them,

right, or the machine go after them. And their name isn't large enough to grace the public airwaves over and over and over again. And maybe you would grace more than I give credit. My apologies if you do, but, you know, like I just don't hear Pat Stedman being the household name of J6, whereas in Canada, Tamara Leach, Chris Barber is about his household as you get. And, I mean, they're still being ran through the coals. I'm not trying to make light of any of that. And when you sit there, you know, my brain just goes, you know, as you sit here and you're getting involved in whatever you think you're getting involved in, you just have to sit down and put some time into thinking about, you know, and I guess that's where my brain goes sitting on this

set. I'm trying really hard to focus, but at the same time, I'm like, you know, when you sit and do these conversations, you know, one of the things I will never be naive again is, is like you were saying the night before. It's like, FBI, you want to come get me, come get me. I've said similar things to that, right? In the middle of COVID, while you're interviewing these people and you're talking about things, people were texting me all the time going, make sure you don't get a black bag over your head. I'm like, black bag over my head. All I'm doing is having a conversation. When did that become so offensive? And yet, me and you both can agree, you'd be naive if you didn't think that's offensive to different forms of the government or different people in society

in general. And that's a big question to roll around in everybody's head. And you've come, you know, you've went through the experience of, I believe it's a full year in jail, correct? Yeah, full year. 366 days. It was a leap year. They didn't give me that extra day back. but like I said I consider myself fortunate compared to others in the sense that

I was able to be out on on pretrial release a lot of people were kept in prison prior to even having their trial so I've had a serious experience with it

but there are people who were scooped up in 2021 and they're still in there and never been out. You know, when you look- Some haven't even had a trial yet. Some haven't even had a trial. They've been in for four years of no trial. Which is insane. When you, when you, like, you already said you'd go back and you wouldn't change anything, right?

Like, the experience has been valuable to you, to you, and I assume to others. and that, you know, it didn't break your, your marriage, right? I think is a testament to you because I think, you know, like that's a very difficult, it's not just you that had to experience this. As you go into jail, now your wife is without a husband, you know, not to mention income and everything else, it goes along with that. Maybe, I guess maybe I should, you know, like as a guy sitting here who is married to an American and she is a phenomenal lady, you know,

How did this affect your marriage? Like, you know, you're giving the finger to the FBI the night before. Had you had conversations of like maybe something happens or is that something that, you know, as it's going down, you're having to work your way through. Well, yeah, I mean, the first thing I'd say is, is that I have like a very spiritual perspective on life. And I view life as an adventure. So, I mean, I don't try to, like, I'm not saying you should. try to get yourself arrested.

You know what I mean? I'm not about encouraging that. But I, having these kind of challenging distinct experiences, I don't consider to be bad things in the big picture. They're hard to go through,

but you learn a lot about yourself for the process. They're humbling. They bring you closer to God. And I think that they make your life more interesting. I can tell you that when I'm an old man and I look back at my life, I'm going to view this era with an enormous amount of gratitude. I already have gratitude, but I think it's not going to be one of those things where I'm like, man, I wish I had just been safe. You know what I mean? I wish I

hadn't gone to that. I think I'll I can I'll see. I can already see how good it was for me and how it was a good thing to stand up. What they did was wrong. And I don't, I think it's important for people not to be reckless, to be prudent in their decision making. But I also don't think people should be cowards and they should allow these people to terrify them because all they really have, they can't crush everybody. They can't. I mean, just going after the J-Sixers almost destroyed the justice system because you had about

one third of them refused to plea. And I mean, they've been pulling prosecutors in from all over just to try to get this stuff. It totally jammed up the system and it broke the system. I mean, the justice system has been not serving all sorts of Americans. That's something I saw very clearly in prison. It's a completely corrupt system across the board. But the fact that, you know, we were made an example of, and, you know, Trump was made an example of this is all stuff that's hasten their decline. So I don't, again, like, you know, you have to be prepared when you do this kind of stuff that you're going to take some degree of risk. But I also don't think that people should be unwilling to ever stand up for what's right in case because something bad people might do

something to them. So I say all that. But, you know, you asked about about the impact on the marriage. And I think it's a, you know, my wife, she's a, she's a wonderful woman, amazing woman. She was totally supportive, completely supportive throughout the entire thing. That does not mean that she was happy with my behavior throughout the entire thing. And as, you know, to her credit, she never voiced any. of the stuff in the acute stages, but, you know, we had talks about it about midway through, like, my pretrial release. And it was an ongoing conversation of, you know, and a lot of it had to do with me acknowledging, like, I wasn't, I was way too focused on being, I was way too much

in my ego. Like, it was the right cause, but there was still a lot of ego, you know, and in terms of how I was talking about things and and but totally dedicated. You know, we were, she's Polish. We were supposed to move the Poland in the spring of 2021. We had been living in New York. We left during COVID just because New York City was, you know, obviously it was not the place to be during, during COVID. And we were going to move to Poland where we had an apartment.

And, you know, two months before we were going to live. leave, I get arrested, my passport's taken, we're stuck at my parents' house, we're still at my parents' house. Like I said, I mean, the financial losses, depending on how you want to calculate, anywhere from half to three quarters of a million dollars. I mean, it was really, it caused substantial amount of damage for our ability to sort of grow and move forward. But she was there the entire time. When I was in prison, I never had to worry about, you know, having money for commissary, which is like really necessary unless you want to lead a dismal life in there. I mean, it's dismal anyway, but it's a lot worse without that little extra change.

She visited every week. Anytime I called, she'd pick up the phone. And between her and my parents, she really held down the fort. I mean, I had two little kids. My son was just shy of one when I went in the prison. And I remember at what point it was a few months in. And I remember he came for a visit and it was like, suddenly he didn't remember me anymore.

It was like I was a stranger. And he sort of reestablished a relationship with me over the next few months because his older sister, who was three when I went in, just five, three when I went in, She was really like, she was, we were very close, her and I. And we had a chance to establish a bond. So he would sort of see how she was with me and would mirror it. But when I got out of prison, I think you could see it from the video.

My daughter was, was, like, excited, but she was shy. But my son was terrified because he had, he was, like, warm with me when he'd come to visit him. it. But I think he had come to associate me as like the person who's in there who wears his brown uniform and can't get up from his chair. And like you can kind of go see, but he can't come see you. You know, it was weird to see me in different clothes walking towards the car. And I remember in the car ride back, he just kept like, he was just staring at me. And like, you know, he'd point and, you know, like, dad, da, you know, dad, like trying to understand it. I, I was. I was really fortunate, but, you know, my wife and I, we have a very, you know, I'm a dating

relationship coach. It doesn't mean that everything has come easy in my marriage. A lot of it's actually the reason I'm able to help guys is because I go through things and I'm, and I work through them, I'm able to understand, you know, how to actually improve a marriage. I don't just get a good marriage handed to me. But we had a lot of hard conversations leading up to that. You know, but I think when you, when you have a good woman from like the material standpoint, a woman with good values and, you know, who loves you, I think a lot of it was just, I think the fact that I was showing some degree of growth as well was really important for that. because like I wasn't sheepish or anything and I was always very calm throughout the whole experience

and I think that she really respected that and was attracted to that the fact that when the FBI came like I wasn't freaking out or anything like that I was just so I was I was leading but a lot of it was I was leading with her in mind I was showing that I that the that I made mistakes I wasn't going to make those mistakes again I wasn't going to like make it about me because I think I had made it a little bit too much about me in the lead up the lead up to the January 6th stuff. It's when you talk about being a relationship coach, you know, in today's society, I talk a lot about fact that divorce is easy. I don't think it is, but it's perceived to be easy, right?

Nah, if you're unhappy, just like move on. And then people realize after that, that's probably not, you know, like it's like, it's like, Oh, you're letting the government into your marriage and everything else. You know, as we talk about government and what it can do to you, I've heard enough horror stories. It doesn't mean that all divorce is bad. I don't mean that. It's just that in general, you think you're taking the easy way out or what seems to be the easy way out.

And usually that's not the case. And when I hear you talk about, you know, like what you can offer men, I'm like, honestly, it makes perfect sense to me, Pat. Because like, what are we missing in society? is there's a ton of people, a ton of men around me that, that have kept their marriages together, have fought, have stories of ups and downs and different things. It's one of the things that I really value is men that can hold together a relationship, because it's not easy, like, you know, except it is, right?

Like, I mean, it's kind of that a little bit of a paradox in the sense that it is easy in the long run, and it's the best thing you can do. But at times, it can feel really, really different. difficult, right? You think of the storm that you weathered. You can say that, you know, all the right things about you and your wife and everything else. But I mean, if you weren't having the conversation five days before the FBI showed up of like, hey, one of the real consequences of me going to January 6th is that there's a possibility FBI show up on our doorstep and I go away for a year, then you were caught flat footed. And that had to have been a very difficult conversation. I chuckle a little bit because I'm like, like, honestly, it's almost. almost like, how could you have seen that coming? Except now, where you sit now, Pat would be like, listen, if I'm going to go to something like this again, the real consequence is that I get singled out and, you know, a consequence of being singled out is jail time. And the thing about January 6th, you know, in general, I've said this at the start. Like, I'm not the super expert

in January 6th. I've listened to a bunch of different accounts and everything else having you on to even just talk about the experience is really interesting. I listened to a redacted episode with a journalist where he got singled out for just reporting on it. And I was like, you think you're in, it was very grounding for me because you think sitting over here and just having somebody on to talk about the account of January 6th or any experience is, or filming it, you know, you're like, you know, immune from all these different things. It's like, no.

Like, if they can single us all out, folks, if you're going to show up, you're going to stick your head up, they can grab a hold of you and make an example of you. So the fact that you found a way, you and your wife, to survive this tells me, leading up to this, maybe you didn't have the conversation, but you'd certainly been doing a lot of work on keeping that relationship strong. And I assume after coming through something like this, it's only made that relationship stronger, not weaker. Yeah, our relationship is phenomenal. I mean, if anything, it became stronger over the course of prison. Because I think it's one of those one of those things where if your foundation is really good, then this kind of experience just strips away all the bullshit. So like, you know, something minor that you might nag about before or that you might, you know,

they'd be kind of nitpicky on, like me to her or her to me. Like that stuff just sort of disappears. Like it becomes so unimportant. And also, the reason a lot of relationships fail is because the individuals are really, they're at superficial levels of their personality. So, like, they get together and there's an infatuation, and then the infatuation fades. And they haven't, like, people, there's this big phenomenon like, oh, well, women are getting bored and their marriages and, you know, they just want to move on to something better. And, you know, this sucks.

It didn't used to be this way. But I think a lot of it is really just that, and I'm not giving women a pass. There's a lot of problems, but I work with men. I try to focus on constructive things, and these are things that men. can do and the reality is that men are just not in general there's not a lot of wildness in them or desire for connection there there's a real like a stunted staleness to a lot of men today and i think a lot of that is the programming that they've been given but i i think you know if you want to create like yeah you can do like more fun things

and you know try to treat your life like an adventure and bring that excitement to it and a practical level and you should do that in your relationship but a lot of what keeps things exciting is this peeling back of layers of yourself and each other and so actually going through stuff like like I think couples they'll get to a point of friction and they might be fighting And I think a lot of people view it like, well, we're fighting. That means it's bad. I think fighting is not as great as like open, easy communication where you can, you know, maturely discuss issues and come to some sort of agreement, right?

But fighting is much better than just completely zoning out with each other. Like fighting shows you at least care. Like there's something that you that you want. And it's the beginning. if you if you grow that process in the right way it's it's a it's a way to start to understand who you and the person you married are and when you actually find out who that real person is and who you are i think that's when that's when the magic really starts to happen and so for us you know we were already on that path but all the the january sixth stuff i mean

I think in many ways it forced even a greater acceleration on it because I had the level up through the process. I had to be much more of a man to deal with all the pressure. And she also had to be less fragile herself, especially when I went away to prison. She had to learn how to be a woman who worked and had two children under four to take care of, two children under three rather to take care of. I mean, it was a lot for her. And it was crazy when I came out because I came out the exact same day I went in the prison, October 27th.

So it was like a time loop. You know, I come out, I come back to the house. Everything's the same, except it's a little different. You know, like this cabinet got changed. And the kids are older. I mean, I've been seen them throughout the year, so it's not like it was. But you could see that. like she had just blossomed she was such like a stronger woman not that she wasn't strong before

obviously but it was like she was so much stronger she had matured so much from the experience and so i think a lot of it was just our orientation and i also i got a lot of grace from my family um because this was unprecedented you know everybody understood that it was abuse even if even if like my behavior wasn't you know was a little reckless it wasn't you know we sentence you to four years in prison reckless when you just you just think of think of being a parent or a wife or i mean in our case a husband and someone you love goes to prison for protesting, right? My wife in the middle of COVID said,

when the government starts to do things, you do not like, the thing you can do is protest. You show up and protest. And so, you know, like, I just think of like, so you're your parents, Pat's parents,

shout out to Pat's parents. And now every conversation you have for a full year, probably longer than that, because this went on for longer in a year. Your jail time went on for a year. But like, now,

centers around something that they would have never talked about. But it just would have never been in. And now that changes you. For sure it does. And the same thing for your wife. Like I mean, for a full year, even the lead up to it,

but for for sure the full year, now she's going to a jail once a week. She's, you know, she's paying for things, you know, the commissary, she's doing things.

She's having different conversations with their kids that she's never had to worry about. Like all these things are, are, you know, in our world, today you know like I just think of like last two weeks has been in my world has been phenomenal I got to like one of the things about having conversations like this all the time is I got like not depressed that's that's wrong I just got tired I

just got tired of the world is full of crap but if you don't like open your eyes and see some of the beauty it's it's like you can get really disillusion and for last like two weeks got to hang out with my kids and like get my buck and board games and go play some hockey and just have some fun and see kids the way they see the world right and it's you know we went out and there was this big you know like it went out when they clear out a parking lot and there's a giant mound of snow they're like dad can we climb on it i started laughing like yeah you can go climb on it just went to climb on it that's all they wanted to do because to them that's a mountain and i'm like yeah sure give her like give her like go go hard

and like that you know uh as much as we stare at the problems of the government and and the problems of this world, if you're not injecting the beauty of it, you can go down some some tough paths. And, you know, like I admire the way you're speaking about this because I think a lot of people, you know, we'll hear January 6th, Pat Stemming coming on and they're going to expect, you know, F the government and or what have you. And what I hear is something very more balanced, I guess, is, and maybe my ears are a little wrong, maybe the audience can tell me different. You know, you've mentioned it multiple times.

One was the day the FBI shows up. You woke up in the middle of the night, felt like you need to pray. Then you've mentioned closer to God. Then you've mentioned a couple different things. Were you God-fearing man before all this went down? Or has this really spurred on some different thoughts that you've had to wrestle with? I was a God-fearing man. I felt I had gotten the call against the way I put it.

I'd gotten the call. It sort of had like a spiritual, my spiritual awakening in 2011. And then in 2019, I... What happened in 2011, if you don't mind me interjective? So I grew up in a Christian household and it was never disaffected with the church. I had only positive experiences. My dad was Presbyterian, my mom Catholic. And my dad had a very intellectual kind of Christianity.

my mom a little bit more. I don't want to go so far as to say mystical, but maybe a little, you know what I mean? Like very like emotional kind of Christianity. It was a good balance for me. But, you know, as I was going through college and I just wasn't, there was a lot of things that I was just like, you know, I was getting caught up in logic traps with it saying like,

well, like super rationalist way of viewing stuff. which as I look back on I don't think was actually all that rational but from the the mindset that I had at the time it seemed very rational and so anyway this is just I find this is this is funny because this is just how how God works but I was dating a girl at the time and we had just to to keep it PG at a very wild sex life and um but I had gone down the South America. I was traveling, and the reality was that there was some other guy who was kind of entering the picture. But she sent me an email one day, and she said, you know, I had a revelation from God. I can't have premarital sex anymore. And I was like, the fuck this come from. Now, understanding female psychology, that was insincere.

She was just trying to find some rationale in her mom. mind to try to, you know, she was, I suppose she had a Christian background herself, but that wasn't, that was just something for her to latch on to, to like justify how she was sexually disengaging from me. But the point is that because she was using the Bible as this reason, I was like, I'm going to start reading the Bible to convince her not to, you know, that this is wrong from the biblical perspective. So I was like really reading the Bible. revival and we know what arguing with her you know this is stuff that doesn't work from attraction standpoint but I was like 22 at the time you know I didn't know any better

anyway so I remember at one point as this went on I was actually starting to like be more interested in it on my own I think that was starting to happen you know I was just really curious because it was stuff that I was was familiar with from my childhood, but I hadn't really read. And so I was like, wow, this is like these stories. This is crazy, you know? But I remember at one point, I was in Patagonia, and I was on this bus, and the bus was going to El Chattan. It's also known as Mount Fitzroy. And people can look it up. It's a beautiful, iconic mountain in Patagonia. And that mountain came into view.

And I was reading at the time, I was reading Matthew, and it was that section where Jesus is walking on water and calls Peter out to him. And Peter walks out, he starts walking,

then he panics, and he cries out, help me, Lord, on drowning. And Jesus says, ye of little faith, why do you not believe? And I read that. And I just felt, even I feel it now, whenever I say it. And I just felt what I now understand

to be like the Holy Spirit in me. And it was just this feeling of like complete in total love. And after that, I never had a problem believing after that. Even though I wouldn't say that I became like this like amazing Christian or anything like that. But you didn't, I knew that there was something something there, there's something real.

And in 2019, without going into details of all this stuff, there is a series of very, like, mystical experiences that occurred and culminated with me doing a pilgrimage in Rome on the Holy Stairs. And I felt like that was like a dedication. And I knew I had something. I don't, you know, I don't want it to come across in some sort of like, like, egomaniac way. But I knew that I had.

some kind of calling that I was being pulled on a journey here. Like even before the January 6th stuff happened, like I, that late September of 2020, I had this calling to kind of do some big challenge for myself. Like I had to prepare myself or like purify myself in some way. And I did a week-long hike in the mountains. I walked like 80 miles. I didn't eat anything for the entire time. a fasted hike in the Appalachian Mountains. And it was a real like, it's, you know, it was grueling. Like, you're basically hiking the entire day without eating. And then you sleep a few hours and you go do it again. And, but I felt like I just had to keep giving myself over to God in the process. And, you know, I guess it was, I guess it was inevitable. I never felt in this

entire process that I was in the wrong place. You know, even when things were bad, it's like, well, I know I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be. So, you know, how can I say it's wrong if I know I'm in the right place, you know, even if it sucks. So. You said you weren't going to get into the details, but you'll have to, you're going to have to tease out at least one. When you say mystical experiences, what do you mean?

Some of it is really complicated to explain. it's going to come across as too fragmented, but I think supposed to say, like, elements initially of, like, of, like, demonic attack, there was just a lot of that then kind of rebounded in a different, in a different way. It's like I entered into some, like, higher state of consciousness for, for like a week or two. it's very it's very it's very difficult to to explain but I I felt like and I know it because like I dropped down you know what I mean like I'm not saying I stayed up there but but there is a period like I had no

interest in any meat I was just like in this very like Zen state and I don't know I was just feeling really caught. Like I spent days doing these pilgrimages in Rome. Like I this trip I was all over Europe. I was in Portugal. I was in Malta. I was in Poland that I was in Rome. And when I was in Rome, like the first few days, it was just I was going to church after church and doing these pilgrimages. And it called me on the Holy Stairs. And I just felt I was like, okay, I did it. Like, I don't have to do this. I was like, I don't want to go to church now. Like I, but I, it was very weird. Like I was that was my first exposure sort of with, I guess you could call it like angels and demons, sort of. Well, you're talking to a guy that believes every word you're talking about. And the reason why it's, it's, well, I don't know.

My thought on why the reason, I guess I should say, is why it's difficult to talk about is multiple reasons. One, society doesn't, like, submit to what you're talking about, although certain, I'm learning certain portions really do. I mean, like, you know, you're seeing things, you're experiencing things, like, you're crazy, right? What's going on with Pat? And it's like, yet sitting on this side, boy, I believe you. And I mean, like Tucker Carlson talks about a demon basically attacking him, right? I go, you either believe in that stuff or you don't. And on this side of the journey, you know, I would have been the first to have been like, I don't know, that's kind of weird.

I'm kind of curious, but it's kind of weird. Now I'm like, no. Like on this side, I've had my own, I don't, I don't know. I guess I, I guess mystical is as good word as any. But I've certainly, you know, I mean, right there, folks, if you're watching, right in the backyard or background. Like I literally had a photographer catch mine in Ottawa. I mean, that sounds weird to say, but that's why the picture's there, you know, I didn't believe that day happened. And then two weeks after he sent me the photo, he said, hey, I just thought you should have this.

And then I looked at, I'm like, oh, my God, that day happened. Oh, man. And then it took two years and I finally got it professionally framed. And I showed my wife because I told basically nobody about this. I'm like, I'm not telling anyone. And then I got professionally framed and I walked it out. And I'll never forget, Mel is looking at me. She's like, who's the photo?

And I'm like, well, that makes it even funnier. I'd be me, hon. That's me in Ottawa, praying for you to come get me, right? Because I'm in, I am in some rough sorts. And that's a long, long story. But when you talk about mystical experiences and why it's so difficult to talk about, well, because one, the world would tell you, you're crazy. Don't believe that.

Don't, you know, that's a narrative out there that's BS. And the next is it's probably so close to you, right? Like you're talking about some of the deepest experiences your soul has ever experienced. And to try and put that into words almost doesn't do it justice. it's like, I don't know what was real, what wasn't what I, you know, it's like, I mean, the entire experience to yourself is real. And the world of angels and demons, you know, I got to interview an author, Frank Preddy, and he was the author I talked about in the year and review because I got to interview him.

He's written two, you know, giant huge bestseller books back in the 80s, this present darkness and piercing the darkness, two Christian novels that are kind of like Lord of the Rings, if you would, you know, to Christians. I don't know if they like the comparison. I don't really care. That's, you know, I love Lord of the Rings. I like J.R. Tolkien. I like C.S. Lewis now.

And when I read Frank Peretti, it put, it was just like, I literally experienced what he's talking about. And you can read those books and go, oh, this is all a bunch of make believe. Like, this is the closest to reality I've ever seen it. And I'm reading it right now. This is wild. So I appreciate you, you're trying to share it because I understand how difficult it. can be to try and walk through those experiences.

Yeah. I think the big thing about them is that everything sort of changing around that time. Like my marriage went through a massive transition during it. Like our dynamic, like a bunch of bad patterns that had characterized the first few years of our marriage, sort of we hit a breaking point with them. And it became pretty clear that we were either going to. change or we were going to divorce. It wasn't going to continue.

And it was kind of like a catalyst. Like it was all sort of happening at the same time. And you know, I think what's interesting about demonic attack is that and I've heard all sorts of explanations for why this is, but it seems like you mostly get those experiences when you're about to break out of a previous lower way of operating. And it's almost like, I wonder if they're always there, but you only start to, they only start to make themselves known

when their ability to control you or to feed off of you is no longer liable. But I've, and I've seen this with clients as well, not that this is something, a usual thing that I go into with them, but every now and then you get a client, who's, you know, look, I think what you come to understand is that there's the things that happen in the physical world and there's spiritual corollaries to them. And so as my whole way of operating sort of changing, I started to have these experiences. Well, I chuckle it your word

choice because I'm like, the way I was operating would be that that world doesn't exist. Yeah. And I wonder how many people out there like that world doesn't exist. Sean's lost his bloody mind. Because you think if you've been on this journey since 2019, which a lot of people have, you've, you've seen incredible change in how I talk, how I think, how I look at the world, et cetera, et cetera. Not to mention the guest choice is changed dramatically. But if you operate in the world and don't think that exists, you're fundamentally doing yourself a disservice because it's like literally operating on you at all times. So when you say, I chuckle at that.

I'm like, yeah, that's a great word. Because I mean, like, you know, to just recognize that it exists and that it's trying to control you, influence you, berate you on and on and on. They can just start to explain a whole lie. I'm like, oh, huh, didn't realize that. And, you know, well, it can just fundamentally change who you are. Yeah, I mean, and I think it started off this whole, it was like this big anchor point for me because then, okay, you fast forward nine months later, COVID hits, and you start to see,

like, the real mass awakening start, which is a crazy thing. It was a crazy, like, I had, I remember in 2016 with WikiLeaks when I started to understand with, you know, with the spirit cooking stuff that was going on with Clinton and the pedestas. I don't know if your audience is familiar with that, but. I want to, I'll pause just for a second and say, I'm pretty sure, they're familiar with it. On this show, I don't know if we've ever gone into the darker of the darkness when it comes to what

you just said. In saying that, I don't know of anyone who's listening to this, who hasn't gone and explored a lot of different things. And so I don't nothing shocked me about what you just said. Yeah. I mean, essentially spirit cooking is a satanic ritual. I mean, Marina Abramovich

has a book about it. And it's using, you know, semen, breast milk, and blood. Anyway, they were talking about doing the spirit cooking ritual, like, hey, when you can you come over and do the spirit cooking. And, you know, you had that on top of all the various, like, coded pedophile language in the WikiLeaks stuff. I remember when I first heard about that in 2016, and I understood this isn't just politics,

is it? That there's a real spiritual component to what's going on here. but even though that seed was planted and it was very jarring it wouldn't it would take you know every year it seemed like there'd be a little bump up you know like i think the and i i'm just be candid i don't ever watch alex jones i have nothing personally against them it's just style's not really my thing um but i think his 2017 in particular interview with on joe rogan was think for many people myself included like a huge like pulling back of the veil about a lot of what was going on and joe rogan i think did a good job of keeping them on track you know not letting

trying trying to keep them on track yeah yeah trying struggling to keep them from from rambling in unclear directions but uh so i think that there was this gradual buildup process right but when 2020 hit i was like yeah i understand this is completely a spiritual war and i wanted to get into it i mean And that was a lot of that hike, I was like, don't, like, I want to be in this fight. You know, don't, don't keep me out, God. Like, put me in here. Put me in. So I, I can ask for it.

That's what I mean. Like, it happened. I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah. Well, I've had different people say, you know, be careful. And I'm like, I, you know, when you talk about just like, I just feel like I was called to do something, part of the adventure and, and just careful what you pray for, careful what you ask for. It's like, I get all that. sitting on this side, it's like, I didn't start this to be where I am, but I kind of did. You know, when I go back to the earliest days of podcasting, I didn't want to be strictly

hockey. That's why, if you go back, you'll see these things sprinkled in. Why is Sean interviewing that? Why is Sean? And, you know, I always talk about episode 110. Now, I don't think it's the greatest episode I've ever done, but for me, it probably is. And the reason why is I interviewed a lady who survived the perfect storm back in 1992. to you'll recall a movie and George Clooney and everything.

And she was on a Chinese fishing vessel with no steering, 100 foot waves, thought she was going to die, et cetera, et cetera. So it's a fascinating story. But for the first hour of the interview, we talk about nothing but me. She's like, why are you here? Why are you doing this? What are you looking for?

And she was asking the questions, which I knew deep down to be very true and why I was doing it. But I had told nobody because I was nervous of what the answer might be. And then when you finally run into it, which for me was Ottawa. You come out of there reeling, licking your wounds, going, I asked for this. I did. I didn't realize what I was asking for. And certainly now that you know what you're asking for, you prepare for it differently. You know, I read the Bible daily, pray daily. And that's different from a few years ago, which means the outcomes are going to be different as well,

because I'm slowly losing a lot of my naiv, naivity. Naivity. Either way. Yeah. It's, it's, It's, but I think people need to listen to what, when they're being called, they need to listen to the call. Like, I, I have no doubt in my mind that if I had not gone down the path that I've gone down, I would be a much more empty, sterile person than I am today. I think, I think that both on a big picture for the course of my life, but also from just a simple personal, development perspective. I mean, I do think that, you know, my suffering and persecution added to the, you know, the weight on the scale that was needed to sort of reveal the regime. And so I'm happy to have made that sacrifice from that standpoint. But just on a personal level, I think it was needed for me and for where my life is meant to go.

Um, you know, I have a book about my experiences in prison coming out this spring. And I wrote, I was writing throughout my time in prison and, and I, people were really, they were really appreciating it. They were really appreciating those, those letters. They were. So I'm, I think there's something big with that book. Um, they're not supposed to say that stuff, right? But I really do, I, I think that there's something big to that book coming out.

When, when, when you have it. finished. I would like to, I don't know, I don't know how this works, but I would like to, I would like to get a signed copy. So I'd like to buy a copy off you. And then what we'll do is we'll bring you back on, Pat. That way you can talk about it. And people, if they want to support you, can buy a copy and everything else because I think they'd be fascinated to read it. And I guess I'll end here. Yeah. How can people find you if they want to just follow you on social media? Or if they're interested in having you, you know, the working with you, the coaching. How do they go about those few things?

Yeah, so I'm on X at Pat underscore Stedman. That is the main social media I'm on. I'm starting to do YouTube videos again, but that's going to be cross-streamed on X too. So that's the place to find me. I have my website, Pat Stedman.com. You can get on my email list. You get a free copy of my previous book, Three Pillars of Attraction. The list is about dating and relationship content for men.

It is, you know, it's very nuanced. The list is 6,000 people, very, very positive reviews on the material. It's not all PG stuff. I just want people to understand that. You know, we had an email just the other week about rough sex, okay? But it's not like a vulgar list or anything like that. we really talk about things that are relevant. And anyway, so, and if you want to work with me, of course, you can fill out an

application. It's pat-stepman.com slash application. But I really, what I encourage people to do is to get out, follow me on Twitter or X at Pat underscore Stebman and get on my email list. And, you know, you can kind of take it from there. But, yeah, that's it. Well, I appreciate you coming on. I look forward to when your book comes out because I'll be fascinated to read it.

And I mean it. When we're getting close, do you have a date or is it just spring? So there's still a few, I have to do the editing and there's still a few pieces that I've only had in note format. Most of the pieces I wrote by hand in prison and then had the type up later on. You had these little word processors that you could pay per minute to type things up. I sent it to my guy on the outside. He'd send some of these to my email list when I was in prison. But a lot of them didn't go on the email list. And some of them were only in rough format.

Never, you know, edited. So I'm still working on finishing all that stuff together. And honestly, I don't feel like the book is done until, you know, what is expected to be the pardon in the next few weeks. So we're almost at the end of the book. But there's some stuff that's been happening just, you know, in the last year. So you're waiting to see. Well, when it, when,

it comes out spring it'll be out at some point in spring i don't know when it comes out in spring we'll have you back on and then we can uh we can talk to talk about that because i'd love to support what you're doing and um we'll we'll we'll try and make a case for people to go buy it and and on this side i want i want to put it i'm in the process of getting a bookshelf uh off to the side where um the different guests have had because there's a ton now that have written books and different things um i want to make sure that they go in there and uh i would love to add yours to the collection Give it a read too, right? Obviously, I want to hear your thoughts from being in prison.

I think that's very interesting. But appreciate you, hop it on and doing this. All the best here in the new year and hopefully a pardon. And we'll keep tabs on you. And certainly, when the book comes up, would love to have you back on. Sean, thank you so much. I appreciate your time.