Shaun Newman Podcast - #779 - Tom Korski

Episode Date: January 15, 2025

Tom Korski is the managing editor of Blacklock's Reporter, an Ottawa-based internet publication focused on covering Canadian government administration. He has accumulated over 40 years of experience in the news industry. Korski has been a member of the Ottawa Press Gallery since 1993, where he was once described as the last member to give up his typewriter, highlighting his traditional approach to journalism. His work with Blacklock's Reporter involves delivering in-depth, document-driven reporting on government proceedings, emphasizing transparency and accountability. Cornerstone Forum ‘25 https://www.showpass.com/cornerstone25/ Contribute to the new SNP Studio E-transfer here: [e-mail] Get your voice heard: Text Shaun 587-217-8500 Substack:https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcast Silver Gold Bull Links: Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/ Email: [e-mail] Text Grahame: [phone]

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and then we're having a little bit of uh you know discussion around that and if you want to be a part of that discussion come be a paid member on substack um we're trying to here in 2025 create a community on there that allows this community that's sitting here listening be involved in the podcast I that makes sense. Goodness gracious knows. At times I talk in circles and I'm hoping to be a little more clear. One of the things that has been really interesting to talk about with you, all of you listeners, has been the new studio that has, you know, once again, I'm going to go back to Substack. I just showed off where the studio's at. We've started construction. Super exciting. And I want you to be a part of it. We've got a glass wall, legacy wall we're going to build. And I want your name on it. Now,

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And if you're listening or watching on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, Brumble, make sure to subscribe. Make sure to leave a review. Make sure to comment. If you're watching on X, give us a retweet. It looks like Old Zuckerberg's Facebook is changing right in front of our eyes. So if you're watching on Facebook, share it with your friends. Finally, at the end of the interview, you're going to hear it cut off abruptly. We lost connection right at the end of the interview.

So if you're wondering why it's literally just all of a sudden he's gone. That's why. So we had a very, very good chat. And at the end of it, the phone cut out, and that was the end of the interview. So if you're wondering what on earth happens, Tom drops off right at the end, and I thought I better make mention of that. So how about we get on to that tale of the tape? He's the managing editor of Blacklocks Reporter.

I'm talking about Tom Korski. So buckle up. Here we go. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast today. I'm joined by Tom Korski. Tom, thanks for giving us some time today. My pleasure, Sean. All the best to you in the new year.

Yeah, to you as well. I hope, well, I don't know. Does Tom and Blacklacks get time off at Christmas time? Like, do you guys take time off? I feel like every time I've had a phone call, the listener won't know this, but I've tried getting Tom to come out this way several times. And I feel like you guys just, you never turn the lights off. It's go, go, go.

It's typical small business. We take a week off at Christmas. That's always a nice time. The kids come home very festive. that's nice. Fair enough. I took a little bit of time off myself. Now, the thing I'm curious your thoughts on is Trudeau's intend to resign and the whole, I don't know, political landscape,

obviously you have an interesting insight being out in Ottawa. What are your thoughts? Well, there's kind of a soap opera going on with a liberal leadership. But there's other fundamentals that are going on that I think are even more interesting. I think the ship is undeniably sinking, though it waters up to the mailroom, but what's going on regardless of what happens in the liberal leadership? This government's in very, very big trouble. This is serious trouble. Epically serious trouble. What's happened? Well, they can't get a bill through Parliament, haven't been able to, with one exception since the third week of September because of an opposition filibuster because of cabinet's refusal to disclose.

documents involving sweetheart contracting. Remember their famous capital gains increase? Sean, they were counting on that money. $17 billion tax increase in capital gains. They didn't even introduce a bill because it couldn't get past. Complete gridlock in the House of Commons. The date they've lost two cabinet ministers since Labor Day, one for identity fraud in claiming he was indigenous,

and the other, the Minister of Finance, who famously said, you can't fire me on. I quit first. So we're now on to our third finance minister in four years. That's not a sign of sound management. What happens March 31st? The government runs out of money. They have it a $70 billion payroll.

No money is spent without a vote. Every dollar spent by the government of Canada has to be voted on by the House of Commons and Senate. And it can't happen because all parties in the opposition, including the NDP, who've changed their mind in the past, but all have pledged, publicly, that they will not perpetuate this Parliament. They must have an election, so they say. And politically what's going on, while we go through this tale of misery, since last June, the Liberal Party has lost three seats in the House of Commons in federal by-elections.

One of them arriving in Toronto, St. Paul's, hasn't voted Conservative since 1988, but they did this time. The Liberals lost a safe seat in the Montreal suburb called Verdun that was held by the former attorney general. And famously at Christmas time, they lost Cloverdale-Langley City in British Columbia. That was a writing that had a Liberal MP as late as last May. The Liberal Party lost it by 50 points, 5-0 points. They're in very serious trouble, regardless of who wins the beauty contest of the liberal leadership, my two cents, Sean. Well, I just saw Mr. Carney was on The Daily Show making reference that maybe he's a political outsider

and that he'd have some interesting insights into how to move the country forward, essentially. Do you think there's any possibility of any liberal leader coming in and having any chance of like steering the ship, this sinking ship where everybody's jumping off, is there any chance that the liberal, leadership race could amount to anything worth noting? Well, the water's already up to the mailroom. It's never happened before in Canadian history. We'll take those two as guides. In so far as Carney, this is just my opinion, Sean. You know, I'd love to play in the NHL because I'm kind of an outsider. I guess I should have made junior hockey first. You see the problem? You and I know people who have political skill.

And isn't it funny, you can't tell just by looking at them. They're homemakers or plumbing contractors, they're small business people, farmers, ranchers, union reps. They just have political skill. How did they develop that skill? Part, they were born with it, but they also honed it over 10,000 hours. I'm heading towards a point here. No, it doesn't seem like it. 10,000 hours working as a school trustee or city-county.

member of the provincial legislature, you name it, before they ever hit Parliament. It's kind of like hockey, isn't it? We'd all like to play in the NHL. Wouldn't it be great? But first, you should really try your skills in junior hockey so you can have the sensation of facing six opposing players who can't wait to give you a facewash in the corner when the Lionsman is not looking, and you will know that there are a bunch of people who don't care about your feelings.

Sean the number of people who have come out of success in private business at a high level, let alone Governor of the Bank of England, who thought, you know, I think I've got that outsider knack to deal with all those plumbing contractors, farmers and divorce lawyers in Parliament. I'm going to show them my magic. The number who have succeeded is a very, very short list. The number who have failed? well, we have Peter Pawclinton, we have Kevin O'Leary, we have Ballandestronic. All these are millionaires.

They couldn't get arrested in politics because it's a different kind of game. So I understand Mark Carney has an incredible resume. And so did Michael Ignatheff. You know the last time? Think about it, Sean. Ignatio, Harvard. Can you imagine Harvard? I went to shop class in high school.

Harvard is almost human comprehension. Last time I saw Michael Maggiah, he was taken the fire stairs out of the House of Commons so that he didn't have to use the Commons elevator and perhaps have a accidental meeting with a member of his own caucus. He later left the country, wrote a book, I never read it. Somebody gave him a gist of it. He wrote a book about how politics was much harder than he thought when he was at hard. or the toast of New York or London.

Isn't that interesting? Hockey, politics, really, really hard. Is there any chance? Like, have we seen the last of Trudeau? What do you, where do you put him? You know, like, I've been saying lately that, you know, you think Trudeau could be bad, then realize you're done. And I'm sure if he had no give a crap before,

now it's probably below zero. And so I go, I wonder how bad it can. can get in the next couple of months. But then I also go, have we seen the last of Justin Trudeau in Canada? In, yeah, in Canada, honestly. Yes, you have.

With 100% certitude. Liberals don't like losers. They're very, very, there's no nostalgia in the liberal party. They do not tolerate losers. And they will blame Trudeau. They're going to go into a leadership contest. And it's going to be a classic liberal leadership contest,

but this applies to any party. There's going to be name calling them. They're going to be calling each other filthy names. They're going to be talking about each other's inadequacies. It's going to be attack and attack and attack. And then they're going to have to go into an election with a bunch of people, opposition candidates who also know how to have a knife fight in an alley, just like in hockey.

And then there's every chance that they cannot make up these 25-point deficit they have in every opinion poll. You know they have to blame somebody. And you know who they're going to blame. And it's going to be Justin Trudeau. And you know, frankly, they should. There was no reason for Trudeau not to resign a year ago. He didn't achieve anything in the last year, whether it was vanity or whether it was a lack of opportunities in the private sector.

And he hung on and hung on until the worst possible moment. And I think he'll spend, he's a young man. He's only in his early 50s, what, 53? I think he'll spend the rest of his life being reminded of this over and over in the most unpleasant way, not by you or I, Sean, but by members of his own party. You mentioned March 31st as a big date. What will happen? Like they come back on the 24th.

I assume they're going to call an election. What happens then with everything in regards to the government being broke or not passing things? through Tom. What will happen? Well, the budget year ends on March 31st at 1159 p.m. Eastern Time. And if there is no money voted, then no one's getting a paycheck in April. Hopefully they keep running the prisons. But what will happen, I think, is whoever is the leader of the Liberal Party will be calling the House back much, much earlier, not the 24th, which only gives us.

gives them five business days to pass any sort of transitory funding, a few billion just to keep the lights on until the dust settles after an election. Minimum election period, by the ways, I think, 34 days out of the elections act. So it's not weeks and weeks and weeks, but it is a period of time. And I think there will be some sort of attempt to, by the cabinet, to deal with the NDP to pass some sort of emergency funding. But you know that the conservatives in the block of the qua have already said, forgive my language to hell with you. Your lack of planning is not our emergency. So you made this and you can lie in that.

And if the NDP wants to help them out, then I guess they're going to hear about it in the campaign. Sean, this is a terrible circumstance. And it's all man made and the man is Trudeau. In your worst scenario, if you're, liberal, the nightmare scenario is what they're living right now. That's why all you hear

from Ottawa is jolly talk about their amazing fantasy leadership race because they don't want to talk about how they hit an iceberg and they're in very desperate straits. When will the liberals have a leader?

Do you know, Tom, like have they announced everything like this is the timeline and this is when you're going to have a new leader of the liberal party? Sunday March 9 is one day of balloting. They say it must be announced that day. Now, typically, this will be internet balloting. There's always a problem.

It always runs five hours late. And Sunday March 9 is their deadline. That's the party's deadline, not mine. And then that gives them, let's see, that gives them 10 business days for whoever is the lucky, lucky captain of the Titanic to appoint a new cabinet, get the House back, beg and plead with the NDP to help you pass some. They're called main estimates. Those are the budget bills that will just keep the lights on and then wait for it, wait for the conservatives and the block. And so we are given to believe the New Democrat, according to their own leader in a written statement. We'll

the plug and then it's election time. So you'd be looking at election in, I would say, by mid-May. It'll be interesting to watch. You know, for a lot of people, they've been waiting for, you know, like, you go, Trudeau should have resigned a year ago. I think we all could say he should have resigned nine years ago. Regardless, it doesn't matter. He's, uh, him intending to resign. I actually saying that, going on national television and saying it, I was almost shocked, Tom. I didn't think he had it in him. I mean, even with the house on fire, the ship sinking, people fleeing, everything. I just didn't think he was going to, I thought he was going to ride it out to the election in October. I could not see it any other way, and yet there he sat, and here we sit, and you talk about the storm, he's created.

Everything's happened because he wouldn't get out of the way. And everybody's known that for quite some time, have they not? I mean, minus maybe a few people surrounding him who still think they were doing a great job. Well, you can never discount, that's exactly true. You can never discount the malforming experience of relying on employees to give you advice, because you know what they're going to say. I'm with you, by the way, Sean. I didn't think he was going to quit either because it doesn't make any sense.

I thought they would have an election last August, September, because it would be some sort of controlled landing. This is what the Prime Minister of Britain did. It's very logical. When you've been in office too long that happens to every federal government, nine years is so long, you've made so many decisions, offended so many people that very few federal governments become more popular after nine years. I mean, it almost never happens. And I assumed, as you did, that the party would go for some sort of controlled landing. Prime Minister of Britain, Rishishishanak,

what did he do? He knows he's not going to win. Call the election early. Do the best you can, without vote splitting, too badly, get into official opposition, resign, get a new leader, and start rebuilding immediately. It's the only cards you have left to play. They didn't want to control landing. Trudeau decided to have a crash landing, and this is where we are. All the pieces are scattered all over the field because they wanted a crash landing, and that's what they got.

It doesn't make any sense. But interesting, there was no one in his cabinet who had the guts, let's be frank. to stare him down. It could have been done. And what are all those ministers doing now? They're retiring. They're leaving. You know, Sean Fraser, the minister of housing, in February last year, had a fundraiser. At the Calgary Petroleum Club, he's from Nova Scotia. Come on. He had a fundraiser at the Petroleum Club, got a bunch of high-powered oil and gas executives in, and raised money for his leadership campaign. leadership, Sean. He was going all the way. And then he announced just before Christmas, he decided he was gone home to Nova Scotia to spend more time with his family permanently. What happened in the meantime?

That's a very sudden fall. There was a provincial election in Nova Scotia. This is interesting. We talk about Cloverdale losing by 50 points. There was a provincial election in Nova Scotia. Housing Minister Fraser's own writing in the provincial election voted over. over 73% popular vote for the local progressive conservative candidates. He couldn't win in his own riding, Sean. One minute I'm having steak dinner at the Petroleum Club with my new best friends who are giving me 1750 a plate to join my leadership drive.

And the next minute, I'm suddenly discovering my wife and kids and it's how we need more family time. There's a legitimate question to ask whether any of these leadership candidates could even get a seat in parliament. I'm not saying this to be witty or funny. Where is Mark Carney going to run? Not Cloverdale.

Not St. Paul's and not Verdun. And not apparently Central Nova, Nova, Nova Scotia. The walls are coming in, Sean. Yeah, and it's almost like they don't, like, they're surprised, Tom. It's like, it's almost like they didn't realize what the house was on fire. You know, like, that's what's, or maybe, you know, like, I, I, I guess you pointed out, right? Employees are, oh, yeah, we're doing a great job.

You're doing a great job. I guess that's why you don't surround yourself with yes men. You need to have critical thinkers sitting around going, I think, ooh, we better take a look at this because it seems like all of them had no idea. And I think your story points that out even more, right? It sounds like he had zero clue what was going on in his own writing. You know why leaders in yesterday, I think avoided this, Sean. is, you know, how could John A. McDonnell be Prime Minister for what was it, 18 years?

They talked to their caucus members. They talked to their team. Caucus members were considered to be the party, and they knew exactly what was going on in Battle River or Mount Pearl or Peterborough. Wherever they were from, they knew exactly what was happening. You'd go into a caucus meeting, and your caucus members would tell you, and say, oh, this looks a little tight, boss. And then you solve a lot of problems. This Prime Minister is not interested in his caucus. There are caucus members who know less about what is going on than you or I. I'm not being sarcastic when I say that.

They are treated very badly by the leadership. That's why this cabinet famously does in-house polling. Believe it or not, they hire focus groups. Under very lucrative contracts, their latest pollsters has a $1.6 million contract His job is to bring in focus groups once a month and ask people, how is the government doing? What do you think about this program? How are we doing on immigration? Can you believe that?

Do you think Johnny McDonald needed a focus group? No, he'd walk into a caucus room and ask his own members. They don't do that anymore. And that's why you get this sort of weird detachment from reality. By the way, I don't want to give a speech, Sean. There's watch for this. When Trudeau came in, he dynamited the liberal farm team. All parties, all businesses, sports, you name it.

You need a farm team. You have an apprenticeship system where you bring up people, you train them, you weed out the duds, and you reward seniority. It's the oldest system in the world, and it's really effective. It doesn't mean you win the Stanley Cup every time. It does mean that when you have a hard time, and it comes to all of us, you are going to be able to withstand it. Trudeau got rid of all that.

He had opposition members, caucus members, who had been in opposition for 10 years. They carried the water for a long, long time while he was making speeches and getting, collecting speech fees and reading teleprompters and teaching drama class. There were MPs on the backbench through these very dark days. You know what he did when he came in? He didn't put any of them in cabinet. He hired the new pretty ones. Remember, that's 2015.

I want a cabinet that looks different. And do you know what all the old timers did? They said, the hell with you, I'm retiring. I'm not sticking around so that I can spend 20 years in opposition. Not interested. And they all went home. This means, Sean, there is no one to grab that party when they fall, and they're falling right now. What is Randy Bwesanat going to rebuild the Liberal Party in opposition?

Is George Shahal from Calgary Skyview? Do you think George or Randy can get reelected, let alone, rebuild the party. Huge, huge mistake. Oh, they're going to blame Trudeau like no one's business. That's an interesting story. That's also interesting. You know, you think of how bad or poor or leader Trudeau has been. It's been evident for a very long time. I mean, when you don't reward, I get exactly what you mean, coming from the hockey background and everything else, right? Like there's something to be said to the people who slug it out. And not to mention, that's how you find your new up-and-comer that comes, you know, becomes a rising star.

you need to create that type of culture, and he destroyed it overnight by the sounds of it. I was curious your thoughts on, you know, we're days away from Trump being inaugurated. And, you know, one of the things, he's been really, well, saying some interesting things about Canada and other places. He's talking about these 25% tariffs.

It sounds like that's, you know, going to come in. I was wondering, Tom, you know, like Daniel Smith, goes down to Mar-a-Lago. I'm like, what a strange thing. Now, I tell you this every time we talk. I'm a newbie into the political realm, you know, and saying that, I guess it's years now into it, but, you know, compared to yourself, I'm a newbie.

And I look at you and I go, have you ever seen premiers go and talk on behalf of their province? Heck, I might even add in their country maybe to an incoming president is that not the strangest thing you've ever seen now? We've had the entire story about Trudeau. So actually it kind of fits with exactly how he's ran things.

And the fact that Trump probably has no time for him, he's intending to resign, so why don't I want to talk to you anyways? But have you seen premiers go and talk on behalf of their respective provinces with an incoming president? Is that odd or am I just, I just haven't been around long enough? No, it is odd. I think a lot of provinces, as you know, have trade offices and really provincial ambassadors. In Washington, they deal with U.S. legislators all the time.

I think this is happening now because premiers, who, let's be frank, run the country, and that's always been the case. They run health, education, welfare. They really run the country. Parliament is responsible for what the Navy, federal prisons, diplomatic relations with Taiwan. The real bread and butter is done by the provinces, and I think the provinces do sense weakness in the federal cabinet.

They sense weakness because the cabinet is weak. That's completely rational. So if you are worried, you figure, well, I can't suffer consequences without giving it a try. Premier Quebec went down to Florida as well. and the Premier of Ontario has talked about, you know, getting in touch with, they're doing this because, what are they going to leave it to Melanie Jolie, the foreign minister? Come on, come on, come on, come on. Exactly. It's ridiculous. So, you know, there never was a bad piece or a good war, Benjamin Franklin said, so I can understand that premiers want to give it a shot to find out information because they're not getting any answers from their, local liberal MPs, heaven's nose, or from Camana.

In your time, though, has there ever been, you know, like, I know Donald Trump is a unique president. In your time of covering, you know, politics here in Canada, has there ever been a time like what we're walking into where Trump is talking about tariffs, he's talking about, you know, I know he's, well, actually, I don't know. He's talking about Canada being a 51st state. He's absolutely.

you know, if you think of how rough it's going to be for Justin Trudeau, as you point out with, you know, his own party. Think of going to see another world leader in him basically saying you can be the governor of the 50, you know, like, just like demeaning him. And I wonder, Tom, like, is this something new or is this another cycle that it comes and goes over time? I think it's a little crazier than usual. But Trump has that effect. I mean, these are tweets. And everyone wets their pants and everybody gets excited. You know the conservative criticism of Trump in his first term?

You won't get this from mainstream media. But they were very thoughtful and unashamedly conservative commentators in the states who had very sharp criticism of Trump. It wasn't just any, you know, quote unquote liberal media. There was conservative commentators had very sharp criticism. And the criticism of him was that he was, that he was. He wasn't a digger. He didn't get it done. He said he was going to drain the swamp, and he didn't drain the swamp. And so whether that changes now or not, knowing that he has last term, so it's do or die.

But, you know, I don't want to disagree with the Premier of Alberta. I would not freak out if Donald Trump said something on Twitter about 25% tariffs. Number one, what are you reacting to? I don't understand. Is that how it works in hockey or business? Is that how it happens? We lose control of ourselves when someone utters a threat. I don't know. In my business, you sort of wait to see what happens.

Because maybe nothing happens, because that's what happened in Trump's first term, say, his own political friends. You want to impose tariffs? Well, I guess we're going to deal with it. You know, Sean, in my business, every time the government announces something or a cabinet minister says something, every single time without fail, you know what we say? Show us the legal text, not interested in the speech. Don't care about the speech. I've heard enough speeches to last a lifetime. Just show me the legal text.

Then we're off to the races. Do you know how many times we don't get a legal text? Because there isn't any. Guess what? You don't have legal text. You don't have anything. all you have is a threat or promise or cajoling or hectoring. You know, if the Premier of Alberta wants to respond to that, that's Alberta's business.

But, you know, I'm with you. Do you think John Defenbaker would have flown down to Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, to talk to Dwight Eisenhower? Because Eisenhower wrote a letter to the editor saying, I don't like the, you know, the water, cross-boundary water regulations. Could you imagine that? Of course not. It's ridiculous. My final one then for you.

You guys had written a series on the Digital Citizen Initiative here in Canada. I thought, I listened to you talk about it already, but I think I'd be, I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't allow you to tell my audience the money that went into it and what it was trying to do,

think I kind of understand. But Tom, like the digital citizen initiative. This is quite dark, Sean. Cabinet in 2019 thought that disinformation was a serious problem. They never said why, and they never showed in what way it manifested itself. But they said disinformation on the Internet was a problem. And so they did two things. One of them is they had a fetish to control the Internet. The last control bill, the censorship bill, has failed in the House of Commons and it will not be coming back. But they chased that, they chased that

dream for four years. Regulation of legal internet content that hurts people's feelings. And when I say people's feelings, I mean cabinet's feelings. And then the other program they had was called Digital Citizen Initiative. This was Mother and Apple Pie. The way they

presented it, it was so harmless and wholesome. It was going to be a program to make you, John Q. Citizen, more informed in dealing with what you saw on the Internet. Now, all their in-house polling showed, Canadians are capable, so they say, of making up their own minds and spotting the difference between fakery and real information on the Internet. Literally, no one in Canada wakes up every morning and says, I wish the government of Canada would hold my hand when I get on the Internet.

that. Nobody does. What did they do with the money? And it was $19 million over four years. The program is just now winding up, and they would love to renew it. Hopefully they don't. Well, what they did is they did through various contractors what they could not do themselves. For instance, they used the money to hire a contractor, a foundation in Surrey, B.C, to survey black people on whether they would vote liberal. You cannot do that. That is against the Accountability Act. You cannot charge taxpayers for a partisan survey, but they did. And then they went a little further. They hired some researchers at the Carlton University in Ottawa,

and they said their mandate was to document any possible links, any links, mind you, between the Conservative Party, Libertarians, the People's Party, and German Nazis, any documentation at all, any at all. And then they hired a local contractor here in Ontario to search for tracking methods of following what they called anti-liberal media narratives, end of quote. My favorite was when they hired researchers at the Toronto Metropolitan University, formerly Ryerson, to design some algorithms so that they could push government-measured, messaging on TikTok users. As young as 13, you say, my goodness, what possible interest would a 13-year-old on TikTok have in the government of Canada? I wonder. But that's what they did. And there were all these little surreptitious, forgive my language, frankly, sleazy and contrived programs that all had

one end result, which was to benefit the liberal party and to needle or compromise their political opponents. I've always said, if Stephen Harper did this when he was prime minister, there would be Ontario liberals burning police cars. They would be talking about Joseph Stalin. These guys almost got away with it. And the only reason it was disclosed was because of access to information. This was your money. They were going to use your money to try to give the conservatives, people's party, libertarians, or, as they put it, anyone who dissents a hard time in one of their research projects, they said the problem was they could see it with disinformation was not disinformation itself but when people did not follow government direction when they did not believe what government

website said and in one case whether they started to ask a question that was digital misinformation to these guys and they almost pulled it off it's like they created a program Tom, just for me. We have to find the person they're worried about is me. Oh, man, they're trying to find a way to spend a bunch of money to figure out how it works so I can get me back in line. You know, one of the things that stuck out with the... Oh, Sean, you know what?

And you just avoided the Orwellian hellscape of Bill C63. You know what that bill was going to do? If you did a podcast and you hurt my feelings in some way, I can imagine a thousand ways where Sean might hurt my feelings. I could file an anonymous complaint with the Human Rights Commission, and you would have to go to a tribunal, my friend, and explain yourself why you use those words. What did you mean, Sean? How do you explain that?

And I had no charge or consequence whatsoever. That's what they envisioned with regulation of the Internet. that. This was the, you know what, you know what drives all this? That's raw fear. That is raw fear of new media. They wanted the way it was the old days. You would sit down at suppertime and watch CBC News and get the official version. And Sean, we're never going back to that and they're having a real hard time with it. Maybe that's the silver lining. And maybe, maybe I could just, with the prerogation of the government, do I understand it correct, like Bill 63, poof, gone.

Like, all these things are gone unless, I forget how Chris Sim said it. Is it an unanimous vote to bring it back in when the new government forms? Is that the only way things like Bill C63 can come back, Tom? There's a slight difference between private bills and cabinet bills. Private bills are gone forever.

They have to start all over. Feel sorry for any MP whoever tries to pass a private bill. It is, you are pushing a rock up the matter horn. It is a real char. For government bills, they can be brought back by a majority vote. But that's going to be a big problem when you can't get a budget bill through as it is. I don't think you're getting internet censorship bill through either, let alone to bring it back on a majority vote.

They just don't have any time to do any of this, Sean, it's all over. Like there's literally no time. And that's because Trudeau, he painted them into a corner and he left them no time to get the paint to dry. and they're going to wear that. And that is maybe the silver lining then, you know, of all the things going on, to hear that Bill C63 is just going to be dead on the floor. I think, you know, like the picture you paint, I laugh on this side, but I almost am like, I laugh because I don't know what else to do with that version of the future, right?

Like, I'm just like, it's so insane. It's just, it's so insane. I can't imagine all of a sudden all these content creators being in front of the, front of a tribunal trying to explain themselves on how they were making people feel. And yet, that's the direction they were trying to pull everybody. So it should terrify everybody. And on the flip side, with what's going on, the best, maybe the silver lining of all this is that things like that are going to disappear at least for a time.

It doesn't mean that some government isn't going to try and put through a new version of it, but certainly the version that has been wrestled with and everything else should be. be gone, and that should be a bright light in times where, man, there's a lot of stupidity going on. I think they were, I think it is gone. I think they had a good shot at it. I think they blew it. I think the people who opposed this bill vigorously is just kind of an eclectic and interesting

collection of critics, opposition MPs, libertarians, academics, free speech advocates. And they went to the wall on this. said absolutely not, never. And they created so much blowby that it frightened cabinet. But it was a frightened cabinet that introduced the bill in the first place, Shawna, you know, I say this to people and they, there's sort of, I understand some rational disbelief. This government was frightened a lot of the time. That's why they did what they did. You know, I don't want to go down a tension. The freedom convoy, the overreaction deemed unconstitutional. constitutional by a federal judge in freezing bank accounts and in invoking a national emergency for people

who were double parked outside the CBC building in downtown Ottawa, honk and horns. That was driven by fear. The Attorney General in the day spoke very candidly about it, Dave Lometti. He was later fired, and it was his writing that voted block and that by-election in Verdun I mentioned. Dave LaMette testified at the commission on the Declaration of Emergency, how frightened he was. And he was asked, well, what happened, Mr. LaMette? And he said, well, you know, I was walking around downtown Ottawa. People could recognize me. And no one said anything per se, but I saw all those big trucks.

And I saw those flags that said Trudeau, only there was an expeditive about Trudeau. that was frightening. And Dave Lamedi was so frightened, he got out of town. This is on the level. He testified. He fled the city to go back to Montreal because he was scared. Sean, when you are the Attorney General of Canada and you control all the police and all the prisons and all the guns, you don't have the luxury of being afraid.

You're going to have to be a little man. So if you face dissent, whether it's someone double parking, or whether it's someone honk on their horn or saying something that kind of hurts your feelings a little bit on a podcast or on Twitter, that's too bad for you. If you can't keep it together, then you should go to the private sector because you don't have the luxury of using the full weight of government to make you feel better because of your neuroses, because of your insecurities. that's disturbing. And that explains so much of what these guys did that just didn't make sense. My two cents.

You know, forgive me. I'm going to give a short story just on being afraid at the Freedom Convoy because at one point I was there and there was the stories of Antifa and all these different things and don't go out at night and you know, just the very first couple days.

And I remember like the second night I was talking to a lady and I'm like, ah, do you want somebody to, walk with you. And like they're saying it's pretty dangerous out there. And she's like, have you, have you stepped outside? And I'm like, oh, yeah, I've been around it all day long. But, you know, they're saying at nighttime, like, in Tifa and all the, and she's like, you need to go for a walk. And so I was like, oh, okay. So I just went for a walk. And I got like five feet from the hotel door. And there was kids and there was families. And I'm just like, oh, don't listen to, you know,

like what other people are saying, right? And the fear that, because if you just, if you just looked around, You know, you just look around, is there semis? Yeah, sure. Is it cold? Okay. And then you look around and there's just people giving food everywhere. There's kids running around. I mean, it was the, I would argue, Tom, it was the safest place on the planet Earth was that protest, which is a surreal thing to say.

But at the same token, I lived it. And I don't think there was anyone that was going to be hurt or anything. You know, was there F. Trudeau flag? Certainly. That was the sentiment of the public because their government wouldn't listen to them anymore and were saying and doing things to a certain portion of the population and they had no other choice but to become vocal. And their sentiment was felt by a lot of the population still is today.