Shaun Newman Podcast - #795 - Carmen Zayac

Episode Date: February 12, 2025

Camen Zayac is a former teacher at Lakeland College who was fired from her role in 2023 over comments she made about marketing and the pride flag. We discuss homeschooling, the events that led to her dismissal from Lakeland College and the aftermath of the event.Cornerstone Forum ‘25https://www.showpass.com/cornerstone25/Contribute to the new SNP StudioE-transfer here: [e-mail] your voice heard: Text Shaun 587-217-8500Substack:https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcastSilver Gold Bull Links:Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/Email: [e-mail] Grahame: [phone]

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Brumble, make sure to subscribe and leave a review. You're watching the next. Give it a retweet, folks. We got to get through some of these echo chambers and who am I getting echo chambers. We've got to get through some of the algorithm shadow ban and the crap out of us. Would love it if you would help spread the message. So that all being said, let's get on to the tail of the tape. Wife, mom, teacher, talking about Carmen Zayek.

So buckle up. Here we go. All right, welcome to the Sean Newman podcast today. I'm joined by Carmen Zeyek. Zayek. Dang it, I already screwed it up. Oh, well. There you go, folks. How do I say it? Zyak. Oh, well, well, that isn't, there you go. Professional podcaster can't get a name right. How are you doing, ma'am?

I am fine, thank you. You know, we've got a whole bunch of things to get into. We've been bantering back and forth homeschooling off air. It was actually, I'm probably just going to ask the similar questions. But for people who don't know who Carmen is, I really got to find a different way of approaching this. It's really bugging me because I almost use this. It's almost like a crutch. People say ums are a crutch. The start of my episodes are becoming a crutch for me.

But I actually really curious, you know, like, where are you from? How did you get here? Who is Carmen? Yeah, I was born in BC. Parents divorced and moved to Alberta and raised in Alberta, pretty much from a young age to, I think, all the way up. And I went to Evanton. I was in Emmington, went to high school, did all that stuff, a real city kid, but I didn't like the city. And my cousins lived in the country out by Sangado.

So I spent every summer, I begged my mom to go out there, just let me go out there, ride horses, do the farm thing. I just loved it. So then when the time came for post-secondary, blah, blah, I was like, I want to go do something in agriculture. So I came to Vermilion. And I dragged my mom to Vermilion to, like, the open house, Lakeland College thing. And she's like, why do you want to come out here?

It smells like a farm. That's what I want to do. So I went to Lakeland College for two years in their Western horsemanship program and trained horses and, and had that experience, and that was 91-ish, 92-ish, and did the Lakeland College thing and just loved it here. I thought it was great. And then I thought, I want to keep going and maybe become a vet. So I applied to U.A and went into U of A Animal Science. Did not make vet school, obviously. I am not a vet. I didn't quite make that. Organic chemistry just killed me.

But I switched to agriculture sciences and got a degree in that and majored in animals. animal science and minored and crop science because I really liked both. And then at the meantime, I had met a guy from Vermillion. Didn't know him when I went to school here. Apparently we went to some of the same parties together, but never really met him. And ended up coming back to Vermillion to marry him. And then I stayed home after it was an agronomist for a couple years after graduating and then stayed home because I wanted to raise my kids. And so have stayed home for 20-some years, raised three girls, homeschooled them all the way through, and then was looking for something to do now that my kids were getting older and went back and approached somebody at the college

and say, you know, like, do I have to go get my master's or can I teach at the college with the degree that I have, even though it's 20-some years old? And I ended up going back to teach at the college. Before we get to the college, you make the decision early on, you want to be home with your kids, which in today's world is I don't think is that rare but certainly is becoming unique most people work two jobs you know have each are working a job and trying to find a way you know like it's things aren't getting cheaper by the day they're there you know money is becoming worth less and less and on that point I better I better do this so I don't forget money let's let's talk money for a quick sec so for the people watching

There we go. There, maybe people can see that. Anyways, one of the things people get when they come in here is one ounce silver coin from silver gold bull. Oh, thank you very much. That's all right. Maybe the sound came through. That's amazing. Thank you.

Well, I pointed out every time somebody walks in here because silver gold bull, along with a bunch of other companies, have really made what I do, but giving me the ability to do what I do full time. And anyone who comes to the studio, which, you know, hopefully here soon enough, it'll be in a different location. It'll be something. But regardless, one of the things we do is we give a one ounce silver coin out to anyone who comes,

which, I mean, I'd be curious, you know, in homeschooling, did you ever talk about money and what it means and what it represents and the different ways to store value? not specifically ways to store value. We did a lot of units on money and how to be frugal with money and how to be smart with money. And I know that in school, typical school,

they don't talk a lot about budgeting and money and how to be smart and safe. And then they go out into university and they get these student loans and they spend them all and nobody knows what's going on. So I did spend a lot of time getting them financially prepared with regards to the skills on how to save and run a household. Because they also saw me and my husband

and my husband had to work two to three jobs. I worked two to three jobs on the side, teaching first aid, refing lacrosse, driving a school bus. I drove a school bus for 20 years. So I could specifically stay at home with the kids. And so we were very conscious about always having the kids in conversations about where our money is going and how we're dealing with that. So, yeah, it was important to know those skills. Did you always want to homeschool?

Oh, gosh, no. No. And I remember when I was younger, I had a family member. or cousins. They were homeschooled and they were the weird cousins, right? Like, um, they, they, uh, they were out in BC and they, I just always thought that was the weirdest thing ever. But then once I had that kid and, and especially when I started driving the school bus, because I started to drive in the school bus when my first was nine months old, because I had to pay my student loans off. And so I drove a school bus and I see these kids and they'd get on

the school bus when they were, you know, in kindergarten and they're so excited. And, and then by grade three, they hated it. And then by grade nine, they were angry and resentful. And I'm like, how does this happen and why does this happen? And so I started thinking and reading, I do a lot of research and started to think about, I want to keep this love of learning alive in my kids and how do you do that? And that's not by pushing them into institutionalized education where they don't get to learn what they want to learn about. I wanted them to go out and be excited about what they're learning about.

So I did more delight-directed learning. And that's when I started thinking about homeschooling when my youngest was. What did your husband say? What did your husband say? Oh, he thought I was crazy. But he thinks I'm crazy for lots of stuff, so that's normal. Ask him about my chickens lately. It's okay.

Yeah, he wasn't in for it. His family wasn't in for it. I was accused of my kids are going to run away and go to school the first chance they get. I'm going to wreck their grandkids, that sort of thing. But I'm a pretty, I don't know, maybe it's the red hair or something. I'm pretty pushy and I'm pretty stubborn. And I said, no, this is what we're doing. and I had research.

I read a lot and I presented things to him and I researched to him. And he did eventually get on board and you ask him now. He's very, very happy that we did that whole process. How long did it take, sorry, to get in like, I'm going to call it a rhythm where you're like, hey, this actually could work. Was there a dawning moment of like, maybe this will work? Some days, like I said, he'd come home, we'd all be crying. Some days things were awesome and we'd have great days and everybody would get their stuff done.

And then we'd bake some cookies and curl up by the fire and read a story. that whole, oh, it's utopia. And then there's other days where it was hell, man, like, oh, like, yeah. So there was no, there was a routine. And especially when they got older, then they got more responsible for their own stuff. Like, dude, you have to get this done. If you want to go to post-secondary, you need to get this level. And then sometimes they didn't get that level. And then when they went to go to post-secondary, there was a lot of strife because it was my fault that they didn't get to go to post-secondary the easy way they had to do some other things. And I'm like, dude, it's not my fault. Like, own your stuff. You didn't get this done. So there was some

things in there too so it was never really yeah it was never really all rainbows and what year did you start homeschooling casey was born in 2001 and i mean i so 2006 yeah but i mean i was doing stuff with her before that like whatever when she was three the the reason i bring up the the dates is i'm like from the time you started till now the technology that has like i just think of how much improvement has come and the ability to access information not only to like interact with different things or maybe you've used none of it i'm just curious your thoughts on how homeschooling maybe is evolved since you started till now oh totally like before it was all books and library and stuff and then i don't know part way through there was all courses that we could start to take online and so then i got

my mcs net you know a whole setup and then they could do stuff online to learn latin and things and other stuff and then now you can do pretty much all of it through online classes there's all these programs that come up and stuff. So it's totally changed and shifted. Are you for that? Or did you like how it was? Once again, you know, like, because everything goes to online. And I've been reading a little bit about and listening actually probably more is the better word about different lights and obviously being around screens all day. Yeah. You know, like I, part of my morning, I was chuckling because Carmen folks was on time today. She was, she was early. and this guy was late.

And part of my morning was the sun came up. And I'm like, oh, what a beautiful sight, right? And the more I learn about sunlight versus, you know, staring at a computer screen, which I do for a lot of the day. I just, I got sucked away to a different world for a little bit. And then I showed up late. So, you know, that's a little bit of the backstory. I'm kind of curious, you know, like when you're talking about books versus now,

like, you can probably take your entire course online for the year. Where do you, is there a balance there? Do you like one or the other? Or, you know, maybe homeschooling today is fantastic. I don't like everything being online. Especially after coming through some of the COVID stuff and having to teach college students online, it was painful and disgusting. I don't agree that it's better. I think there can be a balance.

Like when they're young, they don't need to be on a computer screen. Like how about, like they don't need to learn math with bouncing characters. How about you use Cheerios and teach them? math, you know, and read some books and do some baking to teach them fractions and all that practical world stuff. As they get older, yeah, maybe they have to be online to do some things. But, I mean, I also have a science degree, so I understood a lot of that stuff and could teach it where somebody else maybe would not quite have that skill level. So there's some benefit. I think a balance maybe, but I would more prefer more of the hands-on type stuff.

And then I guess before we switch topics here, you know, one of the things I was saying to you, before I was having this discussion with one of the brothers about like, you know, homeschooling kids are weird. And I remember specifically Shelby Boyd, shout out to Shelby, sitting over on Camrose territory because, you know, like they started homes. They're in the middle of homeschooling right now. And, you know, everybody that I talk to that tries homeschooling or is thinking about it worries about their kids and socialization.

Like how are we going to socialize them? One of the big pushes for public or Catholic or charter schools, etc., is you're going to be around a ton of kids. They're going to learn different problems, dealing with different people and different kids in different situations and on and on and on. Your thoughts on not sheltering your kids so much that they don't understand maybe the world at large.

Yeah, a lot of people ask me with that. They're like, oh, well, you know, aren't your kids going to be socialized? I'm like, how does sitting in a classroom full of only people your own age ever create a socialized human being? I don't know about you, Sean, but I don't just sit there with other people that are 51 years old, and that's only who I talk to. So I had kids that I was very proactive about making sure they went out and did things. We were incredibly involved in, you know, youth groups and in sports. My kids all played sports.

My kids all took piano lessons with other kids. My kids were big into girl guides. We went on European trips through girl guides. And my kids could talk to, you know, their 70-year-old grandma very well. and easily at ease, and they could also talk to a six-month-old baby and look after that and at ease. And when you're in a classroom with only kids your own age, that's all you talk to. You're scared of the older people and you don't want to go be associated with the younger people. And so I find that making sure that you can get that proactive, let's get you to different events,

let's get you doing things, let's get you leading, let's send you to summer camp. That was a big thing. All my kids went to summer camp. And now my kids are to the point that nobody would ever guess that they were homeschooled per se because they act in a fashion that is general. Well, they took their education, they took their education in a different form, but they still have all the activities that are associated with, you know, because like, I think of a hockey. Hockey isn't, if you're in Ontario back, I think they still do high school hockey. You had to be part of a high school to play, you know, high level hockey,

and that's part of where Mel's from in Minnesota. It's similar there too. But nowadays, like, you can, I mean, literally in Lloyd, Forgive me if I'm wrong here, folks. They're doing, what is it called? It's like an academy for athletes. Basically, you go to school at, man, I'm spacing on the name of it. Somebody is swearing at the dashboard right now.

But they're essentially going to, if you're a swimmer, if you're a dancer, if you're a hockey player, they're not even building, they're repurposing an old school. Avery? I think it's Avery. That you can go there, work on your schooling. and then in the afternoon or the morning or whatever your schedule is for your competitive sport, go do your competitive sport.

Well, that's kind of like, they're probably going to be doing a ton of online as my guess. Once again, I should just have somebody on to explain it to me. But like what you're talking about is like, your education is done in a different way, but you're getting all the social requirements in a ton of different ways because once again, hockey is after hours.

Well, there's a ton of us parents in Lloyd specifically, running where their heads chopped off to get kids from school to their hockey practice onto the next. I think of piano. I think of swimming lessons. I think of all these different things

that can actually happen around kids that aren't associated with the public institution. Sorry. Yeah. And the thing about that was the benefit that we had was school doesn't take, the education piece of school doesn't take eight hours and ten minutes

or however long they're in the classroom, right? Like we could get our schoolwork done fairly early in the morning. They did all their individual stuff. and then after lunch is usually when we would do our reading time, and then we had extra time to go do other things. And like Vimey Ridge is a school in Edmonton. My daughter looked into going there to play lacrosse.

And it's the same kind of thing. They do in class in the mornings, and then in the afternoon they're training. And then they are training. I think they have other programs besides just lacrosse. Do you think, you know, wife's a teacher. So we talk about different things. Home schooling every once in a while comes up.

I can't act like it comes up every day because it doesn't. But one of the things, you know, um, uh, actually talking to a whole host of teachers specifically, is that probably some parents aren't, you know,

like I, I guess my, my, my thought goes to Jordan Peterson. Peterson would say, you know, before you go and fix the world, how about you make your bed?

How about you start doing a little bit of things in your world that, that make your life a little better? And then you can start to work on your house. And after you work on that, maybe you can go out and fix some things in your community. But don't go right to the, you know,

the nuclear. option. We're going to go fix Canada. We're going to, I don't know. It's like we got to start small. When it comes to homeschooling your kids, it seems like a small option, but then I, like, I'm, I sit, listen to you. I'm like, man, good on you. Because I'm like, I coach you seven hockey and there are some days where I'm like, holy Toledo, you know. And I just curious, your thoughts. If like, you're like, you better get your ducks in a row before you try this or you're like, oh, no, any parent can do it. It's not a big deal. I've had this conversation numerous times because I've had lots of people say that to me,

oh, there's some parents that just shouldn't do it. And this might sound really harsh, but then I come back to the fact that maybe those parents shouldn't be parents. Because it doesn't have anything to do with the education piece. It has to do with the parenting piece. If you're an effective parent and you're a, you know, hands-on proactive parent, then homeschooling is just the next thing. You taught them how to use a spoon and do all of those things, walk and talk.

It's just teaching them a next thing. And if you're a parent that, you know, doesn't just plunks them in front of the TV all the time or, you know, doesn't want to get engaged in what they're doing and not necessarily having those parameters for, you know, discipline and values and, you know, things that have to be done before you get to go to the things you want to be done, that's just a parenting thing to me. And homeschooling is just an extension of effective parenting. But there is a lot of people that unfortunately aren't necessarily effective parents or hands-on parents or they have other ways of doing what they're doing.

And then that extra homeschooling piece would put a huge stressor burden and might not get done effectively just because, like, I have no of families that said they were homeschooling and those kids slept till noon and, you know, didn't do anything all day. And the mom said she was homeschooling. And then they ended up going back to school and they were two years behind. And that's the story that people hear about.

People hear those stories. Oh, that's why you shouldn't homeschool, blah, blah. And it's like, well, dude, some of us are, working our asses off and get up at 5.30 every morning to make sure that our kids are, you know, engaged in doing the things and and don't go to bed until 10, 30, 11 o'clock at night, so you're ready for the next morning. But that's a parenting thing to me personally. That has nothing to do with the homeschooling piece. Fast forward to Lakeland College. You're done. Your kids are all out of, if I understood,

correct, your kids are all out of high school, correct? No, I still had two that were going to school, they were just older and I ended up coming home and they didn't need me anymore. I'd set them up to be responsible for their own educations and I was there to, you know, direct and things, but they just had their stuff that they had to get done and they know they had it to get done. So a lot of times I just ended up sitting there going, well, nobody really needs me anymore and I kind of get bored really simple. So I started because, yeah, she one was in grade 12 and the other one was like in grade 10. And then I'm like, okay, well, what am I going to do? I've donated and and worked really hard for last 20-some years with these with my kids which was great and I'm glad I did that but now what am I

going to do I'm only you know 50 what am I going to do so that's when I turn to try and find something else so walk me through Lakeland walk me walk me walk me through your time there because you started in 2019 correct yeah as a professor of I was working in the agriculture sciences department so um yeah because I had an ag degree because I had gone to Lakeland college because I lived in Vermillion I know a few people And so I talked to one of the higher up people there and said, you know, like, what do I do? Do I go back and get my masters or can I, you know, come and teach with my bachelors that I have? And she's like, well, let's have a sit down. So we sat down and I talked to them and I'm like, yeah, I majored in animals and I minored in crops. And so I have both of these sides of the agriculture coin. And they're like, oh, okay, well, we have some things that still need to get taught.

So it's kind of like an impromptu job interview. It was during the fair in Vermilion, actually, 2019. And then fast forward a couple of months. I didn't hear anything, didn't hear anything, assumed it wasn't going to happen, I was going back driving the school bus, and then like a week before classes were supposed to start, they called me. And I got hired like literally two days before classes was supposed to start. And I was teaching animal science stuff, like sheep production type stuff back when the college had sheep. And then they also got me to teach some of the range and forage, which is that crop side of things,

like how growing pastures and stuff. So I was teaching in the animal science department, both in the agriculture department, both on the animal science side and the crop science side. And I got this contract to teach starting in fall of 2019, two days before classes started. So it was like a highly hands-on stressful moment.

And I assume the first, I don't know, what did you think of teaching? Well, I've been teaching all the way through, right? Like I taught adults first aid, so that was fine. I taught my kids, so that was fine. I didn't have problems with the teaching. I don't have problems. standing up and talking in front of people because, yeah, that's not my personality style.

It was just I loved it. I thought it was great. I'm like, this is where I want to be. I'm really invested in trying to do the best job that I can. I put in tons of extra hours. I would figure out ways to make things more engaging and fun by coming up with, you know, pulling from my homeschool and girl guide leader background. Let's turn this into a game for these college students to try and make it more, you know, engaging and memorable. And so I loved it. I was in my heyday. It was stressful and I had to relearn a bunch of stuff because I hadn't thought about, you know, anatomy and physiology in 20 years with regards to animals. But I retaught myself all of this stuff and I worked really, really hard and I did the best job that I could and

had lots of very good reviews, except for the fact that I talk a little fast in case people haven't figured that out yet. So walk me through because, you know, like you go, I mean, you think 2019 man right on my path i need to be on and i would argue you you certainly are um but one of the things that that happens in your first year is covid happens which would be um i assume very difficult being in an institution and and some of the choices that go along there and then you know over the course of the last what has it been it's been since 2016 for sure but uh certainly here in canada you know it ramped up from about 2020 onwards, lots of different things.

Walk me through, I don't know, until the day you get walked out or however that happens. Yeah, COVID was stressful. All of a sudden, you're trying to teach everybody online. But we got through that. And then I was given, you know, didn't know if I was getting another contract, got another contract because they don't hire a lot of full-time teachers anymore. They don't want to have to pay benefits and stuff like that to a certain degree is how it was explained to me anyways.

So they just put you on contract. And then all of a sudden I'm like the last person. to see if I'm going to keep having a job. But I did. And each class that I was given to teach, I worked really, really hard and learned it all and did it the best I could. And then I'm still doing this

and I'm getting more comfortable and I'm, you know, meeting more students and helping kids that were not doing very well, working extra hours with them, not getting paid. But, you know, I had this one young man who was really struggling with anatomy and physiology when I was teaching it. And I spent all this extra time with him and he was,

I got him to pass. And he was so happy. He came in my office. He's like, well, you know, you just help me a lot. You know, thank you so much. And it made you feel really good inside them. I'm doing what I need to do. This is awesome.

My kids are getting older. They don't need me. And I can help these kids. But then I told some truth that got me into a bit of trouble. So I was asked to teach a marketing class. And I had said, I don't have any marketing background. I'm an animal science and a crop science person. And they're like, well, it's okay.

You know, like you're being successful teaching these classes. You'll figure this out. And so I'm teaching. in this class and they wanted to teach one of me, not one of me, I, one of the things I wanted to talk about was a different kinds of marketing. And societal marketing is a different kind of marketing. It's the new kind of marketing where you want to buy this product because it'll help the environment or help society. It's just marketing. Not a gimmick per se, but an avenue. And so I was talking about societal marketing. And I'm trying to engage these students, which is what

I usually try to do. And we're told that they want them to think independently. And so I'm saying to these students, we're in an animal science college. And I said, you know, all those places that say that animals are bad and, you know, the cow farts are ruining the environment, which is not true. But those kind of places that are marketing to that avenue of people, do you like that? And they're like, well, no, we don't like that. And because we're animal scientists, right? They want to grow the cows or raise the cows, pardon me. And so I'm trying to get them to think. And nobody was really engaging. And so I said, well, there's all these other avenues of societal marketing. What about the rainbow flag? And again, totally innocent, walked right

into it. Should I have brought it up? Maybe not. I mean, am I an evil person for doing so? I don't think so, but the college sure made me feel like I was. But in the meantime, that's how it started. They were talking about animal stuff and how marketing against animals was bad for their industry. So how about let's talk about the rainbow flag? How about let's talk about the Black Lives Matter movement with everybody putting a black screen on their social media. And I said, you know, like the rainbow flag is a way to market to certain groups of people, but other people are going to get turned off by it. I said, my whole thought process was, you market with the rainbow flag, you're segregating society. You have some people that are going to walk into that Lulu

Lemon store because they see the rainbow flag. And you have some people that are not going to walk into that Lulu Lemon store because they see that rainbow flag. I said, so do you feel that this is an effective way to market. And I did get some, a little bit of conversation going with the students, but nobody seemed to be exceptionally, I think they were all just too nervous to talk about it. And so then that, you know how sometimes you just get into a nervous state and it's like, maybe this wasn't a bad, wasn't a good idea. And then I started to get nervous. And then I brought up the, the new M&M that they had just brought out that year. It was like the purple M&M and it's supposed to be the inclusivity M&M. And I said, well, here's another example of this. What do you feel about

this example? it was a totally innocent thing and then all of a sudden I leave the class I don't think much of it and then I get called in from my dean saying that there's been complaints about me and I need to come defend my position and so I go in there and of course I'm exceptionally nervous and he says did you say these things and I'm like well yes I was trying to get them to think about these different societal marketing it's a marketing class and I'm trying to get them to talk about this and because again I was a little bit nervous. I don't want to say that I didn't do anything wrong. I did a few things wrong. Should I brought it up? Probably not. When I just got a little nervous about bringing it up when nobody was

responding and everybody seemed kind of standoffish, I said, I don't know what the inclusivity thing is. It's like the A, B, LG, I don't know the letters alphabet soup. And I think it was that comment. Well, I think most of it got me in trouble, but that comment probably was the one that caused the most issues. But anyway, so I got called into the dean's office and he asked me about these things. I said, well, yeah, said, I'm talking about marketing. I'm asking about the societal marketing saying that this type of marketing will segregate society and do they think this is effective? Did they like it when it was put against them for raising cows? Do you think some other group would like it when it's put against them? And I walked away from that. We had this little meeting and I thought to myself, you know, I'm an adult.

I did something wrong. People were upset. So I'll apologize. And so I took hours and wrote out an apology saying, you know, like, I shouldn't have brought this stuff up. I'm really sorry. I've heard you and I won't do it again. And so I approached my dean and said, can you read this? Because I just need to know if this is effective. And he didn't have time. He never responded. So I went into class that morning and I read this apology.

And I was shaking the entire time. It was very scary. But as being the adult, I wanted to make sure I could try and fix this. Now apparently that was the wrong idea, of course, because I just, that's what I basically said. I made a mistake. I won't bring it up. I'm sorry if I heard anybody's feelings, you know, like I understand. And then I went and continued on my day, that person or group of people, I'm not sure who it was, obviously went to complain to HR again because I was phone that afternoon and told that I was not allowed to teach any classes whatsoever until I came in to talk to the dean.

and I did that and he said, well, what did you? I said, I tried to apologize. I was being an adult. I thought I was making it better. And I was fired for harassment because apparently the apology was harassment. And I was just totally gobsmacked and I didn't even understand what was going on. Like I had to get called into the office. I had to sign these paperwork saying that you could be charged with harassment.

This is against the law. blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, I was just trying to apologize. I was trying to be the bigger person. And I got walked out of the building like a criminal. I wasn't allowed to stop in my office. I had to email everybody and say that I couldn't teach classes that day. It was pretty much the hardest thing I've ever done. And I spiraled after that quite a bit. okay so I'm gonna sorry it was a long story no no don't apologize

okay I just I want to understand a couple things because that feels like it happened really fast like it was like you said something in a marketing class which I don't think like you're college you're supposed to be are you know wrestling with different ideas that was my thought yeah just said no let's get them to think

in fairness to the that statement, I think there's a side of the population that understands that, and we've seen around the world, this isn't, this isn't something, you know, it shocks me that it's vermilion. I think that would probably shock a few people, maybe I'm wrong. But other than that, it's like the idea doesn't shock me, other than, you know, sitting here in this chair, talking to different people over and over again, it's just another one of the series of dominoes that have been following, sorry, over the course of how many years. from the class where you get the complaint, you go into the dean's office,

then you write the apology letter, and then you come back, and then you get walked out of the building. How long are we talking? A week, if that. I think it was a Friday morning's class when I said the initial thing. By Monday, oh, sorry, I think it was Thursday's class. So I said the initial thing. Friday I got called into the dean's office.

The following week on like the Monday, Tuesday, I think when I had class, I tried to apologize. and I was walked out of the building Wednesday. So less than a week. And then the Friday morning I had to go back in and that's when I, excuse me, had to sign the paperwork and was again escorted out. So this is one of the things I don't understand.

And this is, I don't even know if you can answer this. But like, I've always been taught that when it comes to being an employer and certainly being a contractor probably changes the rules of engagement a bit. but like you know your first offense you get a written warning you know the second you're trying to apologize i i don't know there the dean should have you in i assume and be like yeah you try doing the right thing maybe we just don't bring it up which i know folks is a sad statement in itself is just

a ridiculous thing to say but like and then you just go on and and you carry on with life and it's you know it's it's it's it's a little bit of like okay well learn something there right instead it goes scorched earth. Like, and I might point out, you know, like right now with a certain coach and everything going on that way, I'm seeing a similar trend, maybe, if I would. And you're not the only professor. And I don't know. Was that your title?

Can I call it? Yeah, I was a professor, I guess. Yeah. Like, you're not the only person that I've heard this similar story. What is shocking, but maybe not that much because of COVID is how little anyone wants to talk about it, right? nobody wants to, they'll call you off air, they'll run into you, and they'll be like, hey, you know, I heard about this.

Like you're the first that's been like, yeah, come on and talk about it, right? It's going to be uncomfortable, but I want to share what happened. Most people are like, yeah, I don't want to lose my job, or they're at different stages of where they're at in their career and certain things like that. So, A, my hat's off to you for walking in here and being able to share the story. but just so I'm clear it's less than a week you go from mentioning something about marketing

and you go could you have changed your words so it wasn't LGBTQ soup sure okay but then you try and apologize which is what as adults we're supposed to do right on up to okay I was probably a little bit inconsiderate there's somebody in the room that found that very harsh

okay fair so then you try to apologize and within a you know a day or two they walk you out of the building And when you say walk you out of the building, do you actually mean walk you out of the building? There was a person with me. I was not allowed to be alone. I was allowed to go to. Why?

They thought I'd scream, throw fit, wrecks off. I have no idea. I was literally walked from the dean's office, from signing a paperwork to my office to pick up my coat. I was told I was not allowed to look through anything else and take anything else besides, like, because the computer's theirs. Everything's theirs. And I was walked out of the building like a criminal, being escorted out. by this my union rep who did nothing to help me whatsoever and it was total scorched earth in a time frame that I didn't even fathom and you know you think they'd get the

warnings right like I have my daughter was at school going to school when I was teaching there and I hear some of the things that some of her professors said to her like you guys are effing clowns and I'm not trying to point fingers at anybody. But another professor told a student. But another professor told my daughter and her group of friends. I shouldn't laugh, but that's the most ridiculous. Yeah.

And somebody went to HR about him and he, that person, sorry. And they didn't get fired. Who's the dean? You know, everybody's so worried about saying names. You know, in my world where I walk around certain people look you in the eye, certain people won't look you in the eye. And I have a tendency to poke the hornet's nest, so I kind of get it. like who like who like who's the dean are we talking like the top i don't i don't know the dean of

agriculture and he's not there anymore like he left two weeks i think he had a different job to go to and he left two weeks after i was let go no kidding yeah so it was and whether it was him or whether it was HR um like the i can't even remember the HR guy's name i was so stressed out at that particular time i wasn't eating i wasn't sleeping i wasn't drinking anything like um that friday morning when I had to go and sign that paperwork. I don't remember what his name is, but it was this HR guy. But no, there's like a dean of each of the different schools, and the person that I talked to at first was the dean of agriculture. But again, he's not there anymore. So, but yeah, like other complaints that came forward with things that were said to other students, like one student was told

to go jack off in the corner. And, you know, none of that stuff got fired, but me just saying that maybe the rainbow flag shouldn't be used in marketing because it segregates society. And I couldn't remember the purple M&M, LGB, whatever. And do I remember exactly what I said? No, I'm not trying to paint myself in a good picture. Like, I did something wrong, obviously, right? But it was an innocent background thought, and it was just trying to make them critically think. But that was instant fired, walked out the door, don't touch anything.

I chuckle on this side because I'm like, everybody, listens to this show called The Mashup where twos goes off full twos once a week and you go like well there's probably a reason why we're not sitting on CBC right now right like when you when you hear your story I'm just like oh man you know you you don't think it's it's it's around us but it's so close like I mean Vermillion is you know and an agriculture school like they know that a bull and a cow have to go together and have sex it's not a bull in a bowl it's not a cow and a cow like they're trying to make babies, right? Like, and maybe that's too vulgar for people,

but that's just the reality of life. And then so you think you're in an agriculture school and not the, I wouldn't say safe. I mean, obviously they've come through the modern education system and they've put some pretty crazy weird ideas and some of their heads and et cetera, et cetera. But I just thought that, I mean, what I said was not untrue. Well, no, and then, but even then,

you go, you still tried to apologize for it. And then I tried to apologize. And apparently it was apology that got me in trouble. I was told I shouldn't have tried to apologize. So if you had any contact, like, so you get walked out, they're like, you can't touch anything. And the sad part is I kind of, not that I understand, but like, actually, I don't really understand other than like, they're like, oh, maybe she loses their mind and destroy some things. Okay. But they've also known me for four years and I've never made that fashion.

Right. So they probably have a policy in place and somebody is going by the book. except for the part where I don't understand the escalation, right? Like, okay, here's, like, did you have three written warnings? Did you have any of that? Did you have your on temporary leave? Did you have any of that? I'm on this initial meeting. I explained to myself.

I tried to ask about the apology and did not get an answer. So I just went ahead and did the apology. And then I was instantly slammed against the wall for lack of a better term. walked out the building, couldn't touch anything, and had to cancel all my classes. And then there's other professors now trying to teach my class after that. They were using my materials that had been left there on my computer because my daughter is still in this class without me teaching it. And she had all these different teachers come in and teach my material because it's pictures of my kids doing marketing things and whatever. And how is that fair? Like, there's still

using my stuff to get through this. And then they ended up hiring an interim teacher who got the kids through the class and again, using all of my stuff. So like using my PowerPoints, my assignments. A PowerPoint with you in it or your kids? Pictures of my kids that I had made. I'm sorry, it shouldn't be funny, Carmen. I'm sure it is not funny for you, but I'm like, it's almost ridiculous.

Yeah. I mean, it is ridiculous. It is ridiculous. And like, and I, this isn't my hearsay. My daughter was in the class because she's still at school. And she got shunned by some of the people at the school because she was my daughter and oh my gosh, Carmen's evil and horrible for saying these things and blah, blah, blah. How has things got like, okay, walk me through. It's less than a week they go from complaint to apology to another complaint to walking you out to the following Friday.

You have to come in and sign. What did you have to sign? Oh, it was just like the, I got walked. I got told not to come back on the Wednesday, Friday morning. I had to come in. HR was there. And I just had to sign this thing saying it was canceling my, or not canceling my contract that I wasn't allowed to come back to school and blah, blah, blah, blah.

And yet, so I had to sign that and then I walked. And then I was escorted out from there. But the students, again, because my kid was in this class, the students were told that Carmen was not fired. Carmen was just given a different project to go work on. So I was talk there was some, the dean at the time before he left had said, do you want to try to work on this project to finish out your contract? And I said, well, what is it?

Send me the stuff. And he never sent me the stuff. And then he ended up leaving. So that was just a, you know, series of events. But the kids were literally told I was not fired. But I wasn't allowed to come back on campus. And the students were told that, you know, she just got moved to a different project. Well, I didn't get a different project.

There was a talk about it for like 30 seconds, and then that was it. And so, yeah, no warning, no nothing. It was just out you went. And then, yeah, I had a really hard time after that, basically thinking that I was an evil person and horrible when, you know. What years is? Two years ago. So, end of January-ish, 2023.

So two years ago. And I did end up in, they call it extreme stress response nowadays. It's basically I had a nervous breakdown. I couldn't get up off the floor, couldn't eat, couldn't sleep, couldn't talk, just laid there. I ended up being hospitalized for five days. What do you mean hospitalized for five days? Like you just like shut down?

Yeah. I just, I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe that I was this horrible of a person that people would make complaints about me when all I was doing was working really, really hard to try and make sure I did everything really good. I did all the extra volunteering at the school, helped all these students. I had students reaching out to me saying, oh, my God, I can't believe this happened.

We're going to miss you, this, you know, that sort of thing. But I couldn't get up off. I was just laid on the floor and stared at the wall. And I hadn't eaten their drink for anything for about four days. And finally my husband called some friends of mine. And my friends of mine came in and got me up off the floor and took me to the hospital. And they shipped me off to Pinocca for five days just because I, It was catatonic.

I couldn't even function. I couldn't eat, sleep, do nothing. So you, forgive me, because Pinocca is like psych ward, right? Yep. Yep. Try getting that after being told you're evil in a horrible person, basically you did this horrible thing against society. And then I went off to Pinocca for five days.

And that was scary because there's some pretty scary people in there. And I wouldn't have. highly recommend anybody going there, but because they didn't know what to do with me and I wasn't responding in ways that they thought I should respond and then they were worried about me taking my life for lack of a better way to put that. I wasn't really thinking about that. I just wanted to go to sleep and never wake up. So I'm sorry, I'm getting a little emotional. Pretty hard to talk about. Carmen, I say this, you should be emotional about this. So you don't have to worry about showing emotion.

Like you go from, I would argue, your dream job. I don't know if that's true or not, but from the story, that's what it sounds like. Pretty much totally true. I was saying something that, you know, I think is pretty harmless. Now, I'm on one side of it where I get, you know, but regardless, your reaction to that is you stay up all night and write an apology letter to which you would think your dean and others would be like, oh no, you did the right thing. this is a difficult topic, blah, blah, blah.

Let's just, you know, we are going to move you to a different project for the time being and whatever else. Instead, adults aren't adults. They have an agenda or they see something they don't want talked about and they do what they've done. And without remorse, I would, to me, it looks like, I can't speak for her mommy's and I don't. And then you're like, you know, apologize for being emotional? No, not in the studio. Thank you very much. Yeah, so I got out of the hospital

And then I've just kind of been Trying to deal with the emotional aftermath Ever since basically trying to convince myself I'm not an evil and horrible person You're not an evil and horrible person Thank you And again did try to go back to the college But yeah, there was crickets there

And now I'm like, okay, what else can I do? I live in Vermillion and I love living Vermilion And I don't want to move I want a job that's going to stimulate me in the aspect of the college job because I really liked it and I was working really hard at it and I like educating and seeing those kids that come in and say, wow, I finally get it. Thank you so much for spending all that extra time, which is what I had done with my own kids in homeschooling, right? We didn't just push through to the next series. It was like, no, if you don't understand this, let's take the extra time. And I did that at the

college with some of the students that were struggling. And I feel that I did it fairly well. and then to have all that stripped away in an instance very quickly scorched earth you know less than a week really tore into my whole person who I was what I was doing how any of it came about etc etc so two years later I'm still quite emotional of course about it finding it easier and then And then I hear the story about the basketball coach and getting walked out of the building and no communication and the not necessarily telling the 100% truth to the students and all of those same parallels. And it just, that's what, it brought it all like back up and went, holy cow, it's not just me.

And then since then I've talked to a few other people who have had same experience, has been walked out of the building by HR, one of which had been there for almost 30 years, and she's devastated. Um, she was, you know, again, you pour your whole life into this stuff, trying to work really hard and working all the extra hours that you don't get paid for, thinking you're doing a really good thing and a really good job. And, and then all of a sudden get annihilated was, uh, pretty heart-wrenching. I don't know what to say. Well, I appreciate you coming in and sharing it. Um, you know, like the, uh, um, you know, like the, uh, I can't imagine ending up in Pinocca.

I'm sorry, I didn't know that part of the story. You know, that's pretty dark. Scared the crap out of my husband. You know, like, when you talk about going to sleep and like not want, or the thought of that, you know, like on this side, there's parts of my story that I don't talk about a whole lot because it's shocking for me to even admit, right? the suicidal thoughts. It's only ever happened once in my life. Scared the crap out of me, actually. And that's how dark of a place I got into.

And you think, oh, that'll never happen. You know, like, you know, I mean, you're sitting in my dream job. Even though some days, I was just saying to Sean Buckley and Ken Drysdale and Ted Kooten, so they were talking about the National Citizens Inquiry. And they were talking about if you come and listen to the testimonies, you'll leave a different person.

I said to them and I say it all the time. Well, not all the time, but I mean it is like, just understand what you're walking into, folks, if you go and listen to it. Because I sit here and I hear your story and I'm just like, I got to go wrestle with this now. That honestly, that level of evil exists. I don't know how better to put it because, like, you can disagree with somebody. We have disagreements.

Like, I just look at the south of the border. Donald Trump is about as, you know, polarizing as it gets. you're going to disagree with someone what he says and doesn't say and the one side is going to say you need to go look at this and the other side but if we lose the ability

to have conversations and disagreements I don't know where we end up all I know is back in COVID there was a guy named Jamie Sinclair military vet 34 years tell me you know it always starts

with a divide always starts with this little divide and then the worst atrocities happen and at that time it was COVID it was vaccinated unvaccinated it was very polarized It was very talked about. It was openly communicated by our politicians and everything, our institutions.

And I worry about that. I stress about that probably too much. And to hear what's happened, once again, close to my community is just another red flag of like, this stuff's going on. I don't know what to do about it. I bring you in here because I'm like, I hear a story. I try and, I don't know, allow people to share it so that others can hear. it and hopefully can reach out and be like you're not crazy you're far from crazy because a ton of people think everything you just said can there be some mixed emotions about how you say it and

everything else certainly but like from our media and our institutions it has been one narrative i always point to justin trudeau was it before that probably but regardless like that's been the narrative and if you talk out about it you know you get you get your head clipped off and that's Probably not the right way to put it, folks, but you get the point. Pretty much. And there's a reason why, in my, you know, like being an independent media, I get to bring certain conversations on. Is this going to show up on the CBC?

No. And does it, should shock anyone? It shouldn't. But Pinocca, I come back around to it. Well, that's pretty dark stuff. Yeah. When you can't get up off of the floor. And again, I was never that person.

I have so much to be grateful for. I know these things. I have three wonderful kids. I have a wonderful husband. We have a house, a place to live, like we're warm, and all of those pieces. And I never would have thought that would happen to me. I have always been, like, very strong and outspoken. And, you know, I didn't, I got kicked out of girl guides that I'd been in for 20 years for not getting this job.

And I fought against all of that. And yet this one piece, when you're throwing your whole life into this thing, and you think you're doing a really good thing. And then you do an innocent, whatever mistake. I told the truth, blah, blah, blah, it took me to a really dark place. And I never would have thought that would happen. My husband didn't know what to do with me. He had to phone some friends to come help me.

Like, he just, what do I do with her? I'm worried about her. Like, I actually got into my vehicle. After I signed that paperwork on the Friday morning, I got into my vehicle and I started driving. And I was driving. I was not coming home. I was not, I was too embarrassed.

I was too ashamed. And I did stop myself, and I did stop driving. and I had my cell phone turned off and my kids were trying to phone me and my husband was trying to phone me and then everybody was pretty worried about me but I did make back home but I was in the garage in my van and I couldn't get out my husband walks into the garage sees me there is angry at me because I haven't answered my phone and they're all worried about where I am I could not physically get out of my van to go into the house so he had to help me to get into the house and that was pretty I laid there for a couple days and then my friends came and got me. Thank goodness for my

friends. Well, I'm my husband and everybody around me. But I was never that person. I've never been that person. I was always just, I got to go to the next thing. I'm strong. I can take this, right? And then to have that happen in five days in Pinocca and then you get out of there and that was pretty eye-opening and pretty damn scary. I'll tell you that. And then to try and have, it's been two years, I'm still pretty emotional. You're still trying to build your life back. you're still pretty scared of what i'm scared i'm scared of people thinking those things about me that i'm evil that i've done that it was horrible for saying these things and it's like even my interactions nowadays with talking to people i'm pretty careful about what i say which i never used to be but um

i'm yeah slowly building back slowly getting to the point where i might have the confidence to go do something else or whatever i don't know i don't know i don't know where I'm going and what I'm doing, but I've come a long way in the last two years, but I never would have thought I would have been able to get that low ever, that anybody who knew me would say, saw that would never happen. And it did. It totally did. And how come? I have no idea why I, yeah, I don't know. Well, you ran into something that you don't understand. I ran into a brick wall that I just could not understand and could not even fathom. And I'm like, what? And the heck is happening. And it was just like, holy cow. And then it just tore my whole world apart for a

water degree now I'm still yeah I have good people around me and I'm getting back to where I need be but still not that you need to hear this but you know like maybe there's like to me doing the things I've done allowing certain conversations on here you know it's started middle of COVID I just chuckled because you know like I was the golden child of Lloyd Minster let's say I I'd mean that I don't mean that of patting myself in the back I just mean that in the sense that I'd started a show when I was interviewing people like Don Cherry. Who, you know, Don Cherry's polarizing, but he's polarizing in a way that everybody accepts until he wasn't, right?

Until he got removed. Yeah. You know? And then I took a turn because of, well, it was Andrew Liebenberg, but it was certainly Dr. Roger Hodgkinson after that. He sat in this room and I always say he berated me, but he was just passionate about of waking people up. He woke me up.

and forced me to be like, I can't talk sports while the world's falling apart. And by making that choice, you know, I've had my little bits of this, that, and the other thing. And when I hear your story,

I guess I just, I recognize for what you ran into. Certain ideas are not accepted. My, my, um, my introduction to that was COVID. And I think a lot of people's was.

But like, you know, I went from being invited to so many different things and being welcomed into so many different things to being excluded, being removed from things. That was really difficult because I sympathize with the, I'm worried what other people think. Or, you know, you walk into a room, I used to be like, you know, I don't know, I like being around people. I like talking to people. And you can feel when people are turning their shoulder from it. It's a very uncomfortable feeling.

And I guess my introduction to that was COVID. Like, it was just very evident that certain people came right up to you. It's still a stay. Come right up to you, shake your hand. Oh, man. I'd listen to Peter McCullough. And that was fantastic. Keep going.

And then there are other people during that time that said some choice words that wanted nothing to do with it because you're listening to a heretic. And so my sympathies go out to you because, like, I don't know, we are in, an agriculture community. I grew up on the farm. When you talk about a bull and a cow and how they get, it's like, it makes complete sense to me. But in our world, you know, like I just, I think Elise Merle had a regina right now.

This was a, what was this two weeks ago, folks? They had a pregnant man there. Now, it's a woman who's transitioned to a man. It's so confusing and even try and explain. And like, she he you know once again this is where i'm like i actually sympathize with the LGBT soup comment because i'm like i don't i don't even like it doesn't matter there was a dude walking around pregnant around kids like in all right she school you're like that's a that's a

complicated conversation well we should be having those probably not probably shouldn't like we just probably shouldn't you probably need a couple adults to just step in and be like ah you know there's certain situations where this probably just shouldn't be okay And elementary school is probably one of them. You know, at a college, I would say it's a complete opposite. If conversations like that make you uncomfortable, then choose a different college. But you need to have the uncomfortable conversations. You know, I think of North Lakeland College, where I went to college.

It's the first time I ever got introduced to a woman who was transitioning to be a man. I was like 22. It was a very uncomfortable conversation. But like, you're at least there and you can handle some of it. And you're like, kind of like, this is. But that's what college is supposed to be. College is supposed to be about wrestling with large ideas. Now, the LGBT 2SLIA plus community.

Well, that's because they add more and more as it goes along. But, like, that is come to dominate and rule, and if you go against what they say, you get Carmen's treatment, walked out the door and on and on and on. And I think the world is shifting. I mean, I know it is because I'm watching Donald Trump in the States and what he's doing. Things are shifting.

But, you know, here in Lloyd Minster, here in this community, to hear your story is heartbreaking. Honestly, I sympathize with you. And I think the college is just so stressed out about being sued about anything. It was just get out of the situation whatsoever. Like I'm just baffled at a place where I went to school and that this place is awesome. I love this place. Like, it's great. And now I'm living here.

get go back and teach it and it was just this euphoric and and all of those pieces and then to just know that they're still so susceptible to all the BS that's going on with society and the confusion and the brainwashing and then to just get slammed like that I mean I caught kids cheating on tests and they're supposed to get kicked out of school for that and they don't get kicked out of school for that and yet I'm making make it very true that shouldn't be used in marketing because it segregates society, thought process to try and get that intellectual conversation going. And since that comment or even in the time of that comment, you would be proven correct

because you look at Bud Light, how did that work out for them? Victoria's Secret, how did that work out for them? And on and on it goes, you could just point to real life examples that are actually happening. This is why you don't want to do it. Your Bud Light, you probably don't want to put a transgendered woman, man, I don't know, on the can because people who drink Bud Light, and Twoswood has his thoughts on this one, but people who drink Bud Light probably aren't in that realm.

And what happened? They went from being the number one beer over the course of like two decades, consistently the number one beer in the United States to not be in there anymore. And Victoria's Secret putting a whole host of different body sizes in lingerie, one of them being a transgendered woman,

probably isn't the best. idea. Sports Illustrated. Let's put a tragic. Like on and on it goes. There's real life examples. And if you're not going to teach about what's actually happening in society, what the hell are you doing? Yeah. It was just an innocent thought process to get some intellectual

conversation and to, you know, make these kids think. And it just horribly bombed and changed the course of my life for, uh, in a lot of different ways. Well, my hope is, you know, like, I know of some people that probably want your skill set.

that teaching kids and minds and different things like that you might who knows I don't know where a podcast goes I have no idea do appreciate you coming in here is there anything you know you want to leave with you know floor is yours you can you can talk for zilling as you want Carmen I'm not gonna stop you but is there anything you want to say before I let you out of here no just that I know I'm not the only person that this has happened to and it just life isn't fair and that sucks and you know, keep trying to move forward and keep trying to go through the process and then realize that, you know, there is evil forces out there and maybe it's not you. Because I think I internalized

all of that, that I was the evil one. And as much as sometimes I still think that, some of the other times I know that it's not me. So I'm not the only one this has happened to. I mean, look at Jordan Peterson, look at way more famous people than me. I'm just one little person that lives in Vermilion, Alberta, who's just trying to get along with their life. But something asked. be done about this kind of stuff because it's not right. And whether it's a basketball coach or an anatomy and physiology teacher or marketing teacher, all the courses that I was teaching, things can't. I don't know what to do about it. Like you said, I have no idea what to do about it. But we got to talk about it and we got to get people communicating again with discourse and respect. And how about

move this whole thing forward instead of just staying in these same places that are just not doing society any good. If I may, it's people like ladies from Vermillion that really move my brain forward. It was another lady from Vermillion in the middle of COVID, Brandy Suva, a veterinarian, whose son passed out on the bus ride home. And I don't know about anybody else listening to us, but that one was like, it hit way too close to home. Jordan Peterson or others, at times can be such a large stage. It's hard to put yourself in their shoes, so to speak, right? But I hear your story and I'm just like, that's brutal.

It sucks, you know? And I hope it gives courage to others that are being treated this way or have had similar experiences. You know, I think of the 30-year prof. It's like at some point if you don't talk, this literally continues to happen, you know? And I look at Chris King and how many episodes we did there. We did five.

And, you know, the protest came and went. And, you know, it's just the brick walls up. Nothing's coming in and out. You know. It's like they just keep chewing people up and spitting them out. Well, it's a machine of its own. Yeah. And it doesn't stop for anything, not logic, common sense, thought processes with regards to.

You know, is this, is what she said even true? Well, yes, it is. And it was proven with Bud Light, because all of my stuff happened before the Bud Light, I think, and that sort of thing. What I said was true. Did I say it in the most effective manner? No, did I say some things?

Maybe I probably shouldn't have okay. But in the meantime, what I said was true. And it didn't matter. And think about it, the message it sends to professors. No different than it's sent to coaches. If you do X, who has the power? Athletes.

And don't get me wrong. If you're abusing them, like, certainly there has to be some, you know, the ability for athletes or students to speak up. But like,

you apologized, and they've removed you for it. It's like, what message does that send to students? Yeah. Like, honestly, I've watched the videos from lots of different commentators

across the United States and Canada. And I remember one stuck out to me and I forget, if it was, was Billboard Chris or somebody like that, they were talking to a student on a female on a campus. She's like, honestly, I just, I want to talk to you, but I'm nervous

that if I get seen talking to you, I'll be ostracized from school, talking to somebody. And you're like, oh, well, the message that was sent in your case is like, if you talk about this, we're not allowed to do that. If you apologize about it, well, that's bringing it back up, and that's harassment.

It's like, what? This is more confusing than anything. So out the door you go. I mean, what message is that sending to students, let alone all the other professors? I can understand why I keep hearing this sentiment of like, I'm just nervous for my job. Well, it's starting to make a little more sense. Well, and then to have my daughter too was ostracized. She finished her school there.

But there was not necessarily by teachers, professors, but by a group of students. they wouldn't talk to her anymore, they didn't, you know, so it was hard on not just me, other people in my family, because you can't even have a conversation. You can't even have a differing thought process that, you know, like maybe we don't need to have 27 different genders. Maybe we only need to have two sexes because that's all there is. And it's just, yeah, it was so baffling my brain could not even handle it. And that's why I think it shut down.

I, I'm, forgive me for asking. and you don't have to answer about this. But like on the home front, you come back from Pinocca, you have your children, one of them's in the classes. How hard or was it not hard at all with your children? I had to go to her graduation. Not I had to. I chose to go to her graduation.

I had to see all those people, the students, the faculty. I was shaking the whole time. You go there, it's your daughter. Like, it's not about you. It's about her. She's made this accomplishment good for her. It was awesome. She had a great time.

She did well. She's gone on to more post-secondary. I see them around town. The faculty people that I used to consider myself friends with is really, really hard. I'm scared to talk to them. I have a body reaction to start shaking. It's been hard. And I, yeah, it's not.

I've had to go to the college for 4H public speaking, walk into the classrooms that I was teaching at, because I'm still in that environment, right, to a certain degree. And it's not an easy situation to be in for sure. I appreciate you coming on and doing this. Thank you. And my hope is that something will spawn out of this. I don't know if that's right words, regardless. Well, I just, I think of the SMP community.

There's a lot of wonderful people. people in it and every time it's funny I met folks Carmen like in the middle of COVID I'm pretty sure at an for kids sake event I want to say or maybe just after I can't remember and you know you you walk by people every single day and if you just don't stop to have a conversation see how people are doing I had no idea I'm sure I've seen you since then and I'm like I didn't know any of this like I didn't I had no idea nobody you know it's not you think like you may make up the Well, did you hear she went to Pinocca?

I'm like, no, I didn't hear that story. Because my first thought would have been like, what the heck happened? And maybe a guy should reach out and see how things are going. You know, you just, I guess I implore people that, you know, reach out to your friends, your neighbors, and talk to them because they're part of your community. And you just never know when they're having an absolute day.

A shout out to Harold Stephan. Shout out to this man. In my journey on this podcast, I ran into faith. Did not see that coming. And, you know, I'm sure I've ran into a couple people since that, you know, if there's anyone from Lloyd Minster going, oh, Sean's become one of those people, you know? And then I'm like, yeah, I guess I have.

But it's funny. Harold Stephan, and the reason I bring a shout out to him is in the middle of COVID, not in the middle of COVID, it was after COVID. He looked at me and he said, hey, I'd like to talk to you. I'm like, oh, okay, it was super weird. He ended up praying for me. It was super weird. It was super weird, Harold.

But anyways, the other day I walked in, this is like a week ago. I walked in, and I was wrestling with some things. Like, I was mentally wrestling with a lot. I was just having a bad day. And he looked at me, and he's like, you want to hug? Like, yeah, I need a hug. I almost started bawling right there in the middle of a grown man giving me a hug. I'm like, I just needed that, you know?

And so I guess I implore all the audience to pay attention to your friends, your family, your neighbors, because you just never know when a bad day's happening. Like this is about as public as it gets. And I don't know. I'd never heard this story before. So I wonder how many other people are having really, really bad days, bad weeks, and nobody knows. And I just implore everybody to reach out to their friends, their family, and their community

members. Yes. And as hard as this has been, thank you for letting me come on and tell my story. Hopefully it'll help other people is all I was aiming for. Thanks, Herman.