Shaun Newman Podcast - #808 - Natasha Gonek & Amy

Episode Date: March 6, 2025

Natasha Gonek is a professional investigator based in Alberta, Canada, known for her work with regulatory healthcare colleges and the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner. She has gained attention for her detailed analysis of nearly 9,000 pages of Freedom of Information (FOI) documents from the Edmonton Police Service, focusing on their internal pandemic protocols during the COVID-19 period. Natasha is a part of The Caught Foundation, a Canadian organization dedicated to combating human trafficking and child exploitation through a multi-faceted approach. Partnering with law enforcement professionals, it works to raise awareness, support victims, and assist in reclaiming stolen lives.Amy is a parent whose daughter is currently being trafficked here in Alberta.Cornerstone Forum ‘25https://www.showpass.com/cornerstone25/Get your voice heard: Text Shaun 587-217-8500Substack:https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcastSilver Gold Bull Links:Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/Email: [e-mail] Grahame: [phone]Bow Valley Credit UnionWebsite: www.BowValleycu.comEmail: [e-mail] Use the code “SNP” on all ordersProphet River Links:Website: store.prophetriver.com/Email: [e-mail]

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Let's get on to that tale of the tape. The first is an experienced investigator known for her work on evaluating the internal protocols of the Amiton Police Service through freedom of information requests. The second has a daughter being currently trafficked here in Alberta. I'm talking about Natasha Gonic and Amy. So buckle up. Here we go. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast today. I'm joined by Natasha Gonic and Amy.

Ladies, thanks for hopping on. Thank you very much for having us today, Sean. Thank you. Now, Amy, before we get to you, Natasha, I think the audience all knows you, Natasha. You were literally just on. You've been on multiple times on this side, talking a lot of different things. So I think what we'll do is we'll just, Amy, you can tell your story. And then as we progress, Natasha, don't wait for me if there's things you want to hop in and ask or even add to by all means.

But Amy, the floor is yours. You share the story and we'll go from there. Oh, boy. I don't even know where to begin. It's been going on for quite a few years now. And it's just gotten really, really bad. My daughter's been in the system since about 2021. So right at the height of COVID,

she was under a TGO and then unfortunately due to me feeling that I was basically it was like a sacrificial lamb because of where I was at that time it then went into a PGO so a permanent guardianship order the last couple years, my daughter has been AWOLT from numerous group homes. The system, I'm going to call it, really hasn't helped. They allow this to keep happening and happening and happening. How old is your daughter, Amy? She's 15 right now. She'll be 16 middle of March. And I guess for me, in the starting of the story, I don't know where it begins, but if she's 15, at what point does she go into the system? At what point does something go off the

rails where you're like something is really, really wrong? So she went into the system. She would have been 12, 13 at that time? Twelve, for sure. I noticed a picture on Facebook of her holding a can a beer. And when I asked the system how they feel that this is okay, they gave me the excuse, well, maybe she was just holding her for someone. When I went on a visit with her and I questioned her about it, she said, oh no, I was drinking. And that was on Father's Day weekend.

And then I noticed her posting pictures of herself sitting in parks using a two-liter pot bottle as a bomb. And I there again went and asked the system, well, why are you allowing this? She's a miner. She's hurting herself. And they dismissed it. So every time I found something, I would always question the system, why is this happening? And I was always getting shut down. Then, 20, 23, she had her first overdose. So it went from alcohol and marijuana to... math, pint, and cocaine. If I'm doing my math, correct, at this time, Amy, sorry, she's 13 years old?

Yeah. And forgive me, I guess this is why I do what I do, but my brain goes, why was she taken in the first place? So, like, is it just, like, how does this story begin? Where is the origin story of how she gets in the system? She went from the marijuana and the alcohol to the she had running with some street gangs in Edmonton. She started prostituting herself in order to gain access to the drugs. May long weekend, I remember getting the phone call from the hospital in Edmonton at 9.3. in the morning stating that my daughter overdosed.

So right away, I go and I jump in the truck and I go to where she is and I spend the day with her. I was directed by the system to take her back to the group home in Edmonton that she lived at. So I did. Within 12 hours, I got a phone call from a paramedic en route to the Stollary hospital stating she overdosed. and her heart had stopped. I did the same thing. I jumped in the truck. I went and I stayed with her.

She wasn't breathing when I saw her. They were able to bring her back. From there, she ended up going to the youth center in Edmonton for 25 days. Upon discharge from there, she was taken. into a group home down in red tier. And this is where everything just kind of falls apart. She got mixed up in the wrong crowd. Again, more street gangs.

There was motorcycle gangs involved. She was in and out of the group home at her own free will. They say that they have a curfew of 10 p.m. the kids in group homes unfortunately are able to come and go as they please it's a revolving door their bed is held for so long if they don't come back to the bed the bed is closed and when i question why is this allowed why are they allowed to do these drugs why why is nobody doing anything i always get our hands are tied kids die in case care every day. It's just a fact of life, they say. Kids go missing every day. It's a fact of life.

And it's the legislation. We can't force a child into rehab. It is the legislation. So then I really started fighting for her because she was being bought and sold like a commodity. She was caught in the act a few times. Her drug used them became really bad. She got extremely addicted to the meth. And they used that over the kids, over the people's heads. So just to clarify here. You need your fix, but you need to do this.

Yeah, just to jump in here for a minute, Amy, is that, you know, at this point, Amy, Sean is, you know, her daughter's being actively human trafficked at this point. You know, and this is where that piece comes in is that, you know, even on December 13th, the Minister of Child Services in his news conference said children in government care are 60% more likely to be trafficked. that's a huge problem and our government's admitting to that and what amy's talking about is her daughter being trafficked

while she's supposed to be at a group home where she's deemed to be safer than at her parents home or at her mom's home i don't know what to say i'm honestly sitting on this side i'm like i have a lot of thoughts but i guess i'm just curious to hear more of the story amy so then there is quite a few more overdoses. To the best of my knowledge,

now we need to remember that the system withholds information, especially when you have parents like me who actually care and want their child to come home. They tend to withhold information. Since then, there has been quite a few more overdoses. So just so I'm clear, I want to make sure that I'm getting this clear. She's living in a government group home, correct? Government-funded group home.

Okay. And in the system. Since she's been 12, correct? Yes. And over the course of essentially four years, a little less by my calculations, she hasn't overdosed once, not twice. We're talking like a crazy amount of times. Once would be enough, I think.

for most parents, but, but you're talking about like, this has become like, kind of like a monthly thing or maybe more than that. And you can, you can tell us, um, as much as you like me, Amy, but like you're talking about it like happening over and over and over again. And if I'm reading between the lines and maybe this is where Natasha can, can fill in some blanks too. The government that is, um, like the people working at these homes are like, well, it's just, you know, I mean, this is, this is the best we can do. Like, you know, kids overdose. It's not the, you know, it's just, it's a fact of life.

And sometimes they don't come back. And that's a fact of life too. And, you know, I wish it was different. That's kind of what I'm hearing. Am I right in my thoughts or am I missing something? Yeah. No, you're 100% right. That that's exactly how every level of the system operates.

That's how they think. getting back to when I said earlier that I was told that kids die in care every day that was during a Zoom call this last September, 2024, with not just a social worker but the entire team and the social worker's supervisor

very cold-heartedly said to me that children in diet every day in care is just a fact of life. This is Alberta. This is Alberta. This is in Alberta. This is in Canada. And it's okay.

Okay. How is it okay? I don't understand. If I allowed that to happen in my home, I would have severe consequences. I would be charged with neglect, essentially. Yeah. And the system allows this to happen.

Natasha, you've probably done a deeper dive than most, knowing your background. Like, has this always been the case, or is this something very new here in Alberta? No, this is a longstanding issue, Sean. And the system has been taken to task a few times, especially in Alberta, with the death rates in care. and that's where the child youth advocate office is supposed to oversee, you know, when there are issues within the system. Again, challenging to get oversight offices. They are often overwhelmed and end up monitoring post. You know, I have files right now that are the child is already deceased and we're just waiting until there is a fatality review on them.

And so, you know, there's, this is a massive issue within the system, not just the trafficking of issues or trafficking of kids, but the abuse of the kids in the system, as well as, you know, this cycle where they're not being getting proper medical care. They're failing to report or update parents. You know, and I hear it from foster parents too, because I have cases. that are from the foster side where they're trying to keep kids safe and it's the exact opposite is that these kids are being placed back with the very abusive parents I have some cases where those kids were abused and are now dead and that's within the courts and and so you sit there and you go there's it's not just coming at the parent side it's foster families who are very good at what they do and care for these kids are experienced the same problem of trying to be able to keep them safe.

So there's definitely a system problem, whether it's training, whether it's education, whether people just don't care, whether the whole dehumanization of these kids when they get in there is causing this stigma to hit them that they're not worthy of being saved. How many kids in Alberta are sitting in government-run? homes or or I don't know all the ins and outs of this anybody do either of you ladies know the statistic on that yeah I have I actually pulled those stats for you so right now in cases where we have so these are 2023 2024 stats so right now there's about 9000 cases where there is intervention on kids in varying varying levels

kids that are being a child where there's child exploitation involved. There was a 20% increase from 2022 to 2023 year. So there's 126 kids currently in in care specifically because they're being protected for reasons of child exploitation. So we're looking at large numbers and you know what's actually more concerning or not just more concerning. I can't imagine something being more concerning is that they often lose these kids in the system. And when I say that, I go, number one, it's hard. There's no really good stats for human trafficking. There's no really good stats for child trafficking, especially in

Canada. We really are, I've talked to MPs about this. You know, I've had these conversations with MLAs. We just don't have good information. Missing kids, though. missing children in Canada. And these stats are available on the government website. But in Alberta alone, we had, these are from 2023, 3,787 kids listed as missing in the province. Of those, though, they deemed 3,442 as runaways. runaways that's what they're labeled as 242 is unknown 41 has wandered off 35 is other 27 is parental abduction with stranger abduction only being four so when you think of when you

think of that alone you know in Canada they're saying we have 25 over 25 thousand runaways in one year where where who is nobody tracking me kids anymore. It's just like out of the group homes. They let them free flow as a revolving door. And then if those kids don't come back, they're missing. So Amy, I think that's a good place for maybe you to kind of carry forward with your story on that. So while she was in red deer, Um, yeah, she got mixed up with the wrong people. Um, I don't call it mixed up. She got pulled into trafficking, right?

She's being trafficked. They groomed her. She did. She got pulled into trafficking. Yeah, that's more than mixed up with the wrong people. Natasha or Amy, when you say they pulled them in, I hate the word they. Do we know who they are? Are we just talking like cartels?

Are we talking? Who are we talking? I know who these I know who these people are. Are they friends of mine? Absolutely not. Have I ever met them face to face? Absolutely not. It was through, I'm going to have to say, a third party.

At one time when he was missing from the group home, who pointed me in. the right direction to lead me to these people. And I did my due diligence about finally missing persons reports. I was in contact with your CMP, EPS, whoever I needed to be in contact multiple times a day. When they did find her, she, she again overdosed. So she was brought to Alberta Hospital under a PSECA order.

Now, when a child is placed in Alberta Hospital under a PSECA order, they are only there a maximum of 10 days, just long enough to start the detox process, long enough for them to do a two-page mental health assessment and then they're released. They go back to where they came from, whether it be with the parents, a foster home, a group home, or wherever they came from. Then the revolving door starts again. So she was picked up. From there, she was brought down to Red Deer to the group home again. Within two hours, she was gone.

She walked in, said hi, signed in whatever she did, and she was gone. I hope there's smoke. I'm going out for a smoke. And she took off. At that point, she took off for six weeks. Right after things. giving of 2024. She took off for six weeks. During that time, she was posted on Leo's list, which is an escort website. Doing a little bit of back history on my own about it,

it comes from an overseas website out of Hong Kong. I found her on an escort site. And she's 15 at this time. And there's not just her. It's not just her. It's not just her. There's so many young girls that I saw in there. It's disgusting. It's sad. These girls, and it's not just girls, it's boys, too. They're hot commodities. They're being bought and sold.

And yet the system doesn't do anything. They don't do anything. They don't even put eyes on. My daughter was found. And she was then taken back to Y, Y, Y, C. She did 25 days again in Y, Y, Y, C. And she was placed back into a group home in Edmonton, where she previously over, that's where she had the two overdoses,

May long weekend of 2024. In this time, are you saying, hey, I would take her, I would gladly bring her back into the house. She needs somebody to maybe look at. after her and watch her after like are you may i assume um that you're you're making requests of like hey she should come back and live with me so we had her from December 23 of 2024 until january 1820 of 2025 we had her almost a complete month Um, she was detoxing.

Her breathing was extremely labored. She looked like a little old lady that needed to be on oxygen because of COPD. Um, she had frostbite on her feet. Her nail beds were very discolored and yellowed. Um, she has tunnels in her nostrils, in her nasal cavities because of of the meth. She's not thriving. She's very, very sick. And there again, too, I went after the system, and I asked them, you need to take her in. You have to get her to see a doctor.

I will gladly drive her and sit through the appointment with you. But because you have guardianship over her, I cannot do it without you there. They said, oh, well, the soon as we can get her in, wouldn't be till the end of March. So anyway, she took off from here towards the end of January. She went back down to Red Deer. She was involved with those people again. She was picked up after four days. And she was brought back here by EPS.

EPS apparently form 10 to her, but she, according to them, did not meet all the criteria. And this is where even, it's not just a system, it's law enforcement themselves, too. They're derelict of their duties as well. They're allowing this to happen too. Yeah, law enforcement at this time, no, law enforcement at this time was made a word. aware of very clearly aware by Amy that that her daughter was being trafficked and the conversations and everything that was that was occurring with her so there was no there's no perception that they didn't know what was going on they know and they also know the people who are

are trafficking her are known to police And I don't know. I just assume your police, you see somebody trafficking somebody else, maybe, I don't know, you arrest them? Or is that not, is there loopholes here that I don't know about? Or is there more that I'm missing? Like, I just feel like I'm missing something. So they brought her back, but there's some things that they can't do or what? Am I missing something?

the excuse that I was always given was we don't want the little man we don't want the little man like the person traffic they want the high guy is that what you're saying yeah yeah yeah and when they found her she was caught in the act with an older man and they let him go yeah they didn't arrest the john in this situation And she was found in a trap house. And a trap house is a one-stop shop. A trap house. So a trap house is a one-stop shop.

It's basically like a 7-Eleven. You go in, you get your drugs, your alcohol, your weapons, and your girl. And that house is known to law enforcement. So, Sean, these are very, these are very, these are very, very complex investigations for law enforcement to do. I get that part. I get that they don't have the manpower. They're short.

There's quite a deficiency there in being able to put manpower hours into these very complex investigations, even from our specialized teams. However, when you have a child, this is a child at risk. If it was your child or my child, we would be hoping that they would be going in,

and getting that child safe. But that's not. I just think the common citizen would go burn the place down, solve the problem. But then they'd get arrested for arson. So like, you know, like, I mean, it's, I'm, I have choice thoughts in my head. And I'm sure I don't know the full story. So I'm not trying to be a complete a whole today. But like when you hear that, you're like, I don't know.

Like, and I'm sure there's some, I assume, I assume that there's some handcuffing being done on police officers. Like there's certain things that they're, their jurisdiction or Natasha, help me out here. There's probably some words that I can't spit out. Legislation. Thank you. It all boils down to legislations. So this is within the government of Alberta's power or are we talking federally? No, it'd be, it'd be provincial, right?

Policing is provincial. Provincially. Provincially, the legislation, the way it has is written, they do have the ability to go in. and if there's a child at risk, pull them out. One of the biggest problems in Canada that we face is we don't actually have a substantial safehouse system for these kids to be taken to. The revolving door of a group home is not a safe house.

The Yellowhead Youth Center is not a safe house. I have so many horror story cases out of there. I wouldn't deem that a safe house at this point. But, you know, I have the meeting minutes of the federal task force group for human trafficking. And, you know, they actually talk in there how there isn't a safe house system appropriate and designated to support these victims. And this has been an ongoing problem. I deal with and interact with a lot of people who are involved at that federal level and have been for decades. now and they said it still hasn't changed all the money we've dumped into this and we

still don't have these resources available especially for the 16 and under group that is a big big issue and right now the average age when somebody is brought into and traffickers target them is down in that 11 and underage they're targeting these kids younger and younger and younger because they can groom them. They get them groomed. They target them online. They target parents' schedules. So another thing that people don't think of is their online schedules. Some of these traffickers are now able to hack into like Google calendars and get, they've targeted kids. They get their calendars. They find out where they're going to be dropped off and they start grooming them when the parents, you know, have them at these activities.

And so, you know, you really, there is. a massive network targeting people's kids and parents not being aware of what's going on or aware of where their kids are at or the interactions that they're having is is putting them potentially at risk if they've been a targeted youth especially if they're coming if they're in the system already then that just escalates you know what what harm they might face can like like there's a positive way to like is there anything okay you're sitting here you're in the Alberta government

you listen in this conversation you're going holy crap I didn't know this or or what have you like is there a simple fix legislatively that it's just like boom and it starts to give the EPS or what have you police force the ability to walk in boot the door down uh forgive me but put a cap in someone's ass and literally pull the kids out and be done with it

and kind of be like there Um, you know, like when, when, when I hear this story, um, and you start going younger and younger my skin crawls because obviously I, Natasha, you know this. I have three young kids. Amy, I have three young kids. And, um, that really unnerves me immensely. And so I can't, you know, um, when I sit around and have coffee with the, the, the common man, so to speak, I don't hear that we should go easy on people who traffic human beings, but especially kids,

I don't think there's a spot in hell deep enough for them or hot enough for them or whatever the word is. So it's like, okay, so what can the Alberta government do to change this? So this isn't as effective

because I feel like what I'm hearing is they're trying, they're throwing boatloads of money, but they can't seem to find a safe house system or an ability to put teeth around it so that they can go in and stop what's happening. Well, right now it really speaks to the criminality that we're seeing right now.

You know, I mean, they're talking about the criminal cartels, the organized crime in our country and the free flow over the border. It's not just drugs. I mean, a big part of, you know, it's the second biggest industry, could even be the biggest industry in the world right now is human trafficking on all different levels, not just for sexual exploits. And so when you look at that and you have agencies like alert coming out and saying that, you know, they've had a 35% uptake in child exploitation. You know, they have to now prioritize the cases coming in because they don't have the manpower to address it.

These are, this is, this is one thing. There's legislatively, but people need to recognize and understand. it also starts at home for people to start addressing this issue. I mean, education and not being naive to thinking that it can't hit your doorstep. You know, it is everywhere and our kids are at risk. Amy, you wanted to add in some of the stuff too. Yeah, so getting back to legislation. when she was missing for those six weeks, I sent mass emails out to all levels of government here in Alberta.

I even sent a copy of the email to Ottawa. And I did that every day, three times a day. I would just say it send, send, send, because somebody needs to do something. somebody needs to see what's going on to hear what's going on there was only two government agencies that got back to me one of them only sent me some resources of counseling that I could get for my daughter but it has to be voluntary the other one was was I'm not just going to come right out and say it was to the minister of town family services he finally had

enough reading my email that he sent it down the line and the social worker supervisor ended up calling me and telling me to cease and desist cease and desist what stop sending emails so this is this is what emails. So this is this is what happens Sean is that these kids are at risk in the system and when parents start to advocate for their children and try to get them out whether there's trafficking involved or not they are attacked by the system instead of instead of child and family services working with the parents and trying to find some better solutions try to find some proper rehab or counseling or whatever it might be that that child needs. They go on the defensive and then they lock the parents out of the conversation.

They tie them up in courts and they deplete resources and time instead of taking care of the problem or acknowledging, hey, yeah, we might have had a mistake while your child was in the system. God forbid somebody make a mistake, you know, and and let somebody fall through the cracks. But the problem here is you have Amy's daughter has fallen through the cracks over and over and over again, showing all of the failures of where our system needs to actually be stepping up for kids. And instead, they're turning their backs and trying to cover it up by then telling the parents to be quiet. And then I spoke to another one of the workers recently. And this is when my daughter was missing at the end of January.

I, by this point, I've had enough. I said to the workers, something needs to be done. Like, this is enough. I've contacted all levels of law enforcement. I've contacted all levels of government. I've contacted the Canadian human trafficking. I've contacted alert. I've contacted everybody.

And I'm not getting anywhere. And she is going to die. All you get is that. Or she will be put on a container and shipped overseas before you step. up and do something and I brought up um the meech like a cord and how Elijah Harper one man went from Manitoba to Ottawa and had the meech like a cord now granted later on it was squash but it doesn't matter that was one man with one voice and i asked that worker why don't you stand with me and say something well I can't and I said because you're scared to lose your job

and then the conversation ended she did not want to speak to me ever again so then the social worker and another worker came by and collected my daughter's belongings and took it back over to the group home in Edmonton at that point I handed the social worker legislations on child trafficking and where they're failing. And I highlighted everything and ever since then I've been kept out of the loop. I don't know if she's dead. I don't know if she's alive. I don't know anything.

They get texted, but they don't get hands on. They will get text messages saying, I'm okay. But no eyes on. But they don't have eyes on her. And it's so easy for somebody to go into somebody's phone and say, I'm okay. Well, I mean, if you're being trafficked, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So now, Amy, when I was on the phone with her, just a couple of days ago, you know, we, we weren't sure what was going on, where her daughter was at. she got confirmation that again there's a missing person's report for her that was filed with the police a couple weeks ago or sorry sorry last week and and you're sitting there with the big unknown nobody knows where she's at we haven't had proof of life or that anybody's even out looking for her and this is from a group home where they didn't notify Amy that they had actually even filed a police report that her daughter had gone missing. This is this is what our system has mentioned. Yeah, the social worker, the team never notified me. I had no idea. If it wasn't for me constantly sending messages, I would do I wouldn't know. And even if I do send a message, because now they don't pick up the phone if I call. even if i blocked my number they won't pick up the phone and if i do send a text message chances are they don't answer i've gone a week two weeks without a without a reply so so then i made another

missing person's report yesterday because nobody followed through i was given a file number from the one that was made last week I phoned because I wanted more information I wanted an officer's name if I found her I want to know what's going on with my child and it was suggested that I make a new report because it was quite a few days since one was made so and they weren't even aware that even the social worker when I messaged them and I said, did you know? They said no. I had no idea. So in the system, so there's lack of communication between the, yeah, there's lack of communication

between the group home, the supposed caregivers. There's no communication, and there's no communication to me. Yeah. And what's the, they do in the system, Sean, is that they'll deem somebody like Amy as a problem parent or a difficult parent. And this is what almost all the files that end up on my desk look like is that they deem these parents difficult for asking questions about their children. So they then they stop. They'll often put them on communication protocols is what they call it. and they will then restrict communications with people based on they've asked too many questions.

Yeah. Kind of similar, if I may, to what Tim Casperk was saying, Natasha, the last time you were here with Saskatchewan Health Authority, if you got put on the list, then they all knew. You're saying the same thing is happening in a similar way to parents who continue to ask about their children. Yeah, absolutely 100%. And then they're treated as if, you know, they're an offender just because the system doesn't want to answer their questions or to be held accountable for not actioning stuff. Now, people get it.

Human trafficking, in this case, this is a complex crime. It is a big crime. And it is bigger than what most people even know is occurring. in our country or will acknowledge is happening in our country. Canada is, has tremendous amount of human trafficking. And we just, like I said before, we don't have the law enforcement resources to tackle these complex crimes. But it's still, that is not an excuse in a case like Amy's and her daughters to leave a child

at such risk. Like this is a child at risk. We have laws that govern that if you have a child at risk, that there needs to be an intervention, whether that risk is coming from a parent or if that child is being sexually exploited. You know, and the fact that that, you know, there isn't an avenue now, like, where does Amy take it to at this point? Where does Amy take it to? Yeah. To the media, I guess. That's why we're here.

That's why we're here. Just to try and put a little pressure on our Alberta government to try and get this right. Yeah, and to bring light to a big, big problem that's occurring. And I get it. There's no easy solution to this, Sean. There isn't because it's such a massive, massive undertaking. However, you have to start someplace. place. Well, I mean, I mean, I know this is, forgive me, because I know it's not that simple,

but in my mind, it is pretty simple. It's just that we're governed by all these different laws that say we can't make it simple. You know, you traffic a kid. I got a place you can go. And, you know, I see different countries. You know, I'm sure there's some, some qualms with what El Salvador did to get their gangs cleaned up. But I've watched videos on it now. And I'm like, man, that's, that's wild. I mean, to have the gumption to go through and round up all these people doing horrific things to your society. But when you're literally saying it's a complex problem, I go, yeah, yeah, probably at the top, it's a little complex.

But you kick down a door, you see things going on, you go, you, you, you, get in the vehicle, and we got a place for you, and it ain't going to be fun. And we could probably solve this faster than we care to admit. But the problem is, is it's going to take a little bit of political will. And political will also, not to put it all on politics, It's not going to take a society that's like, we need to fix this, right? Like, we really need to fix this. Yeah.

We have a lot of users here in Canada. The demand is high. If there wasn't a demand, you wouldn't have a need for a supply. So people need to wrap their head around that is that we have a large demand for people looking for under the age of 18 children that they can. sexually exploit or that they can abuse or that they are then exposing to drugs or getting them to sell drugs. Like the demand is there in our country and that is a very big problem. Would you agree with me, ladies, that the demand is high, okay, but the laws are soft as well.

That's correct. Like when you kick in the door and you see what you've ladies have been talking about, It's like, well, yeah, all right. Out you go and, you know, don't do it again. Or, you know, I'm being a little bit tongue and cheek here a little bit. But that's the way it seems to me, right? We got these soft laws. And, you know, Sam Cooper's the guy who, his book just landed on my doorstep.

So I'm eager to sink into it a bit. But the, you know, the title of the book is Willful Blindness. And I think it's starting to show itself in a lot. lot of different areas we know what's going on okay you know Paul Brandt was the first one the country music singer um his his organization not in my city he was the first one to tell me about this now that's got to be a couple years ago ladies and i remember thinking there's no way and you're bringing that entire conversation to roost all over again and not only that it's growing is what you're saying yeah it's a growing crime in canada and and too it's very under

reported in Canada as well and you know Amy Amy's taken it to some of the she's taken every step possible and and you know I've I've sent her every which way to try to report this stuff through and it's not getting dealt with just because there there is a lack of that resource to do it yeah what what part of it I also feel too part of it I also feel too is that because she is a child in care. Yeah. And I'm just, again, I have to be brutally honest in saying they are part of the problem.

They allow this to happen. They also, yeah, they really are. They're part of the problem. They allow it to happen. They can't get no hope. They, they, some of them are at a problem. involved in this. You will see reports of different levels of people who work in CFS. They are involved in this. And everything is always swept under their rug. They are part of the

problem. Yeah, I've read court documents too that also include court cases where the pharmacists were involved in dispensing the drugs that the traffickers were using to then keep these girls and people, not just girls, it's boys and girls, sedated and drugged up until the point where they're subjugated, which means they're broken. So that's when they break them so that they actually will when they turn them out onto the streets to go to go to a john or go to one of these trap houses is that they will will automatically come back they they they only ties they now have or to their traffickers and and so i'm reading court documents from our provincial courts that talk about pharmacists being the ones dispensing the drugs to the traffickers to be able to do this

And so it's a very complex system, but it's not unknown. I didn't read anywhere that that pharmacist was criminally charged. That's an interesting one. If you got people in here in Alberta listening to this, obviously you do, like what can they do? Can they do anything? Can they, like you ladies have probably had plenty of time to think about this. The audience is sitting here listening, probably squirming as much as I, am on this side because I'm like I just I don't like what can they do can they help in

anyway is there things that they can one of the things that I I would suggest is write your local MP your local MPPs and rate every single government body take it to the streets I remember back during COVID times there was so many that were happening downtown Edmonton. I know those voices got heard. We need to do something like this. We need to stand outside of these government offices, right from CFS, all the way to law enforcement,

and we need to make our voices heard. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, it's not just my daughter. Thank you for your job. Yeah, right. At the end of the day, it's not just my daughter. daughter there's so many others so many yeah and the scars that these people bear they carry them for the rest of their lives these are the ones who are going to have a hard time finding a husband

or a wife these are the ones who are going to have a hard time getting back to normal life no finding their place in society because they're so programmed they're so brainwashed and that's what happened to my daughter is she's already so brainwashed. Well, and you have adults. I'm going to interject if I may. Sorry. Is it okay if I interject? Yeah, sure.

Okay. I'm Amy's partner. Since I've been involved with Amy since June and dealing with her daughter, I'm finding that the system is putting too much onus on the child to make the decisions that she needs to get herself better. Like to get into counseling, the child needs to want it. To get the child detox in a facility properly, instead of 30 days, the child needs to want it. Then they say there's no organizations that you can lock a child up

to be able to get the counseling, get detox, you know, get therapy for all the wrongdoing that she's experienced in this trade. They put the whole onus on the child. That the child wants it, she gets it. The child don't, she don't. Now, this child that we're dealing with, Amy's daughter, she doesn't have the mental capacity, number one. She's probably at the age level of eight,

and she's 15 going on 16, and then the drug use on top. And then the sex, she's now addicted to sex. She came out and told us she loves sex. She loves the money. So she made $30,000 selling herself. In two weeks. And selling drugs within two weeks for these scums. And we've showed the pictures of the cash that she showed her mom to the police.

They won't do anything. Does the system, the word that's coming to mind, is when you say that they're putting all the choices on the kids, they're treating them as a mature minor. Well, part of it too is that there's this perception and it's a complete misconception by any of the people involved who have the authority to do that is that anybody who's being trafficked, they are not consenting to being trafficked.

And so they say, well, she wants to go back. She's choosing to go back to this. No. And this is where the edge is where the edge is, where the education piece comes in to be so important, not just for parents and other people involved, but for our law enforcement officers. When a law enforcement officer is saying that that child is choosing to go back into that lifestyle, no, these are subjugated people. These are people who are broken and the only pathway in their brain's been rewired, not just by the

drugs, but by the programming to always go back to that. And they're scared and they're addicted to drugs. And there's no consent when it comes to human trafficking. And that's written in our legislation is that and well acknowledged internationally that people who are being human trafficked, whether it's for sex or labor or any other reason are not consenting people to being exploited in that manner. You know, it's it's quite a it's quite an issue, right? When the education piece it leads to them itself has become the perpetrator of child exploitation. By letting the child have that choice by taking the rights of the parents away in Amy's case right now, she was part of the team. They always considered her part of the team and now that

she's made waves where the boat is taking on water they've excluded her as a team player so now she's not even a team player and her daughter's well-being yeah so sean you ask what we're doing so i've had enough of these cases that um you know for for me um sitting with these and having trying to explore avenues for all ages of of kids where these files sit on my desk and I tell you, I've reached out to, as you know, I'm connected to a lot of law enforcement people and across Canada and I finally connected up with a team of law enforcement at the COT Foundation. And we are, so they have been working in a capacity as former law enforcement, retired or former military special ops, intelligence personnel,

they got together and formed this body that is primarily focused on that disruption of human trafficking and including the education piece, education to caregivers, education to law enforcement, working on that. And then the piece that had been sitting off to the side for them had been developing, the investigative and rescue side with a victim focus. Because that's what we don't have in Canada. There's nothing like it. And so when I joined up with them and they invited me on to the team,

it was so that we could develop the investigative and rescue side of those operations, similar to what exists. And it's how they were able to facilitate some of the cleanup down in South America, as well as in the US now. It's having agencies like that that are able to go in in cases like this, where they're able to go in and say, look, I know law enforcement doesn't have the manpower, but we're equipped. We're able to handle those level of investigations, collaborate with law enforcement where you can hand over for criminal arrests to a partnering law enforcement agency or affiliated law enforcement agency, but focus on getting that child or that adult out of that. that trafficking situation and get them to the act to very good resources that they need. And so that was that's a piece that that is being built right now in Canada.

It's you know this case and and so many of the others just show the need for support for our law enforcement on these very complex issues. What what is the organization called? Natasha. I don't know if he said it or not. It's called Caught Foundation, Caught as in CAUG. I'll put the, you guys have a website, correct? We do and we have, we're all volunteers on it, but the investigative side moves us into needing funding because these are complex investigation where you need proper operators and equipment. And so we are, we do have a fundraising campaign that we just. started to be able to do that and we are a nonprofit.

Volunteers is how we work right now. What I'll do is I'll put in the show notes for people listening, watching the Caught Foundation.ca.ca. Backslash donate so they could donate or they can just go take a look and see the different things that, uh, well, Cod is up to, right? Essentially they can they can find different things. You know, I'm just looking at the website right now. Uh, they can volunteer.

You can learn a bit about it. You can donate. You can contact. So there's a few different things that are available there. Ladies, is there anything else? I don't want to cut it short by any stretch of the imagination. Amy, if you have any final thoughts, a message to, you know, anyone out there, the floor is yours. Talk to, I would have to say, start at the ground.

level start making noise in your local towns local cities pound the pavement get together do rallies because it's it's not just my daughter it could be your neighbor's daughter it could be your daughter your son your grandson your granddaughter niece nephew it it happens it and it could be your wife it and it could be your wife or even your husband for all you know it happens and we need change we all need to stand together we need change this is not okay it's not okay for my daughter but it's even not okay for a mother my daughter's gone through hell she's living in hell right now but i live in hell every day because i don't know if she's dead i don't

don't know if she's alive. I have nightmares, night terrors all the time. I'm waiting for that knock at my door or that phone call saying that she's deceased. If she doesn't comply to what these traffickers want, that's her other option. She's a dime a dozen. And it's sad. And we all need to band together. We need to stop this.

and it needs to go right across the country. Appreciate you coming on, Amy, and sharing your story. Hopefully, you know, I'm sure somewhere somebody's listening to it. And, wow, they're probably just as speechless as me. Natasha, any final thoughts before I let you ladies out? Yeah, you know, as a parent, you know, cases like Amy's are absolutely heartbreaking when we can't. go in and help these kids and help them get safe. And I look at it and go, it doesn't happen overnight.

So lots of parents don't want to get involved. They don't want to feel like they're invading their child's privacy and these pieces. But you have to, as parents, we have to step up. We have to watch what our kids are doing and ask questions. And if they don't like it, I tell them, hey, you know, when my kids were younger, I would ask them questions and they'd get frustrated. And I'd say, but you know what? It's my job to keep you safe, not to keep you happy that I'm, you know, not bugging you. So, you know, know where your kids are going, know their friends, check in with them, see how they're doing.

You know, the big part is they could be targeted and you wouldn't even know it because they're using devices and electronics now. to get into your children and they're grooming them right in your own house. They don't even need to leave anymore. So I think it's really important. They're doing it right in front of you. Yeah. They're grooming your child right in front of you while she's on the phone. Yeah.

So that's what I would say is parents get involved. Get involved. Get out there. Your voice. It does matter. And we're all responsible for protecting kids in our community. It's not just your own child. If you see something.

If you suspect that somebody else's kid is at risk, I've intervened with my kid's friends who didn't feel comfortable going to their parents about being exploited and got police involved. I mean, we can't be afraid to take it to the police just because they don't have the resources. We have to keep going back to them and saying, hey, there's a big problem here. And we need to fix this. And we're part of the solution by bringing this to you and trying to help these kids. So we need to protect that future generation. And in doing that, we need to be able to address the problem, get kids safe, and have that focus on making sure that they can reclaim their lives.

That they can, like Amy's daughter needs to be able to heal and reclaim a life going forward. And so I think we need to really focus on that side of it, Sean. Ladies, thanks for hopping on today. And well, my heart goes out to Amy. I hope this helps what we've done here today and somewhere in Alberta specifically. Somebody's listening that can lend a hand or I don't even know what that looks like. But I appreciate you having the courage to hop on it and share some of your story. Amy's very brave.