Shaun Newman Podcast - #821 - Scott McGregor

Episode Date: March 27, 2025

Scott McGregor is a Canadian intelligence expert and co-author of The Mosaic Effect: How the Chinese Communist Party Started a Hybrid War in America’s Backyard. He has an extensive background in military and law enforcement intelligence, having served as an intelligence operator in the Canadian military, including deployments to Afghanistan, and later as a Senior Domestic Intelligence Analyst at Joint Task Force Pacific HQ.Cornerstone Forum ‘25https://www.showpass.com/cornerstone25/Get your voice heard: Text Shaun 587-217-8500Substack:https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcastSilver Gold Bull Links:Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/Email: [e-mail] Grahame: [phone]Bow Valley Credit UnionWebsite: www.BowValleycu.comEmail: [e-mail] Use the code “SNP” on all ordersProphet River Links:Website: store.prophetriver.com/Email: [e-mail]

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Let's get through some of those, oh, man, the old shadow bands and all that good stuff. Okay, on to that tale of the tape. He's a Canadian intelligence expert and co-author of The Mosaic Effect, how the Chinese Communist Party started a hybrid war in America's backyard. I'm talking about Scott McGregor. So buckle up. Here we go. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast today.

I'm joined by Scott McGregor. Thank you, sir, for making some time today. You know, it's funny. I literally just had Sam Cooper and Mark Cohodas on. Your name came up. I started chuckling. I'm like, he's literally coming on the show. But, you know, once again, it's your first time on this side.

So I want you to tell the guests, tell the audience. Sorry, sorry, sorry folks. Tell the audience a little bit about yourself. Who is, Scott? And then we'll get into some, well, I don't know, some interesting topics to say the least. Sure. Yeah, I'm a Canadian military veteran.

I served in the Army, the Navy, and the Air Force. So I spent 20 years in the military. My last role was in intelligence. So I worked in as the senior domestic intelligence analyst for the West Coast to North America. I was a diplomatic defense attache in the Middle East and did the initial tour in Afghanistan in 2006. So that's my military side. I left the military medical injuries, et cetera, and I went over to the RCMP and was discovered to be an intelligence guy and not a communications guy.

So they thought me in that role. I became an intelligence advisor to federal serious organized crime, which kind of covers most of the transnational. national organized crime stuff that you're reading about these days. While I was there, I had a pilot project looking at convergences between national security and transnational organized crime because some people don't understand that law enforcement works at a protected level and intelligence works at a classified level. And within law enforcement, those two things don't really cross over. And so when you have national security threats that sit in the classified domain,

it's difficult for them to look at all of the different interactions. And so that pilot project basically established that there were connections between national security threats and criminal threats, even though they're both criminal. It does. I'm different levels. I wrote it down. So you said protected and classified. So both are criminal, but they just have, I'm going to use a bunch of terms that probably don't add up to it, probably because it's movies. But you're saying there's basically security class.

And then protected is a lower level security clearance. You don't need it's, you know, I don't know, selling drugs on the street for, for. Yeah. And then then classified be like, I don't know, 11 MPs being influenced by a foreign influence and say your government. Yeah, you kind of got it. The protected information it has to do with individuals. So generally your bio data, et cetera, becomes protected. so information about you that's for privacy reasons etc that's what protected is it's law enforcement

sensitive type stuff and then classified stuff is national security stuff so that's in the intelligence world on the stuff that's criminal stuff that happens in the protected realm and stuff that happens in a national security realm can both be criminal they might not be but that's generally how law enforcement looks at it i think so i i i make sense it A little bit. I guess to me I'm like, you know, you got you got something that's criminal happening. Why is it that, that I not forgive me, because I once again don't know what. I think I know, like you got CIS, you got the RCP, you got provincial police, city police.

Am I missing any? Yeah, there's, there's, in compliance and regulatory stuff, you have special provincial constables, you've got peace officers. So there's, there's different areas. transport Canada sits above RCMP, for instance, in the grand scheme of things. RC&P falls under public safety as opposed to Transport Canada, which sits at the same level as public safety. So yeah, there's a lot of different elements that are involved. But for the most part, one of the things that always just, I don't know, I don't know if it even shocks me. It just, it confuses me.

It's kind of like red tape, you know, living and working in the oil field, agriculture, etc. It's like, you know, we know it needs to be done, but there's a whole bunch of safety reasons why you can't just go do it the way it just let's just get it done, right? And so that's very frustrating. And when I think of police and criminality and protected and classified and all these different things, I assume at times you're like, I just want to tell my colleague from a different level, let's say, that that's a bad person. They're doing really bad things, but they're not classified or they're not, I don't even know, they're not allowed to be in the same. conversation. We're not allowed to share that information. And to me, that just seems bizarre, because if you have somebody foreign or a citizen doing illegal things, criminal things in Canada, isn't the whole role of law enforcement to get them out of the way of doing harm to the public

or national interests? I'm not going to say you're wrong about that part. When it comes to information sharing, so on the classified side, there's a thing called need to know. And the reason you have need to know is so that that information doesn't just go to everybody and then it gets exploited, especially if, let's just say, a law enforcement agency has been compromised, which we know the RCMP was compromised because their head of intelligence is in jail right now. So that becomes a reason for the way that information is managed. What I was working on when I was with the RCMP, I held think tanks that involved all of the five eyes, intelligence and law enforcement agencies. And it was trying to get candidates to understand how you can share this information with law enforcement because of the fact that a lot of what's going on is national security, but also things that, like you just said, need to be tackled or addressed, disrupted. And the police look at it in a continuum, actually intelligence looks at a continuum of detect, deter, disrupt, enforce or interdict. law enforcement tends to go straight to the interdiction and enforcement part and misses sort of the disruption piece

and that's because you need to restore public confidence in the institutions that are supposed to be protecting everyone so that's one of the issues the information sharing piece so in the rest of the five eyes they understand that transnational organized crime is a national security threat in 2011 president Obama passed an executive order that's identified transnational rights from him as a national security threat and that started the whole ball moving for the Americans where they could share information between law enforcement and all its other agencies so they have a way of protecting the sources of that information when it goes to court in Canada we don't have that I believe you had this discussion with Calcresti when he was on a few weeks ago

and so that that's when you get into Stinchcombe and Jordan and all that information stuff that you guys already talked about, which is basically just some rules and regulations that govern how information can be handled in a law in a legal manner. That information is kind of what makes prosecutions go ahead, especially the United States. In Canada, we're constrained immensely. And so that's why we work with those partners. Oftentimes, you'll see big, name bad guys from Canada that are operating in Canada arrested in the United States. And I'll use the name Vincent Ramos, for example, who's tied to the RCMP, head of intelligence thing.

So that guy was arrested in the United States, even though he was from Vancouver and operating with encrypted cell phones, with the cartels, the triads, the Iranians, all that stuff. So all the big stuff he was involved in. But he wasn't taken down in Canada. He was taking down in the United States. And there's reasons for that because in Canada, we have a bottleneck, if you will, when it comes to the justice system, trying to get things to go through to charges that result in incarceration. And the incarceration tends to be pretty minimal as we've all read about pretty much everything that happens here.

I'll give you another example of money laundering. When was the last time you heard of a big money laundering case being successful in Canada? You probably won't. And there's reasons for that. the Americans also have a thing called structuring in their money, money laundering laws, which is if you if you're putting money or bringing money in, that's under the 10,000, just under the threshold of having to report it to in Canada, FinTrack and the state's Bin Sen, say it's like 9,900 and you do this a whole bunch of times.

That's called structuring. They will arrest somebody for that in the States and charge them and put them in jail. In Canada, it's not, it's nothing. It's just it's not considered. So we have some issues there. We also don't have the subject matter experts on money laundering in Canada that are required to prosecute. In the cases that were happening in the West Coast, we had to bring people in from the East Coast. And there was only really one or two, I believe, that they had to choose from.

So we lack a lot of the elements that are needed to stop a lot of the activity that's happening in Canada. And it gets complicated. And that's the thing is that for the average citizen, this stuff's very confusing. it's it's not easily understood and to be honest it's not just confusing for the average citizen it's confusing for people that are working in these areas law enforcement has difficulty understanding it i've briefed every agency that i can think of and they don't all understand what's going on or what they can do about it um and so it's because it's confusing sometimes it seems like it's more than they can choose so you know if you're going to tackle it they don't have the

resources or capabilities to do it. And so they have to take that into account. That's their budgetary piece. They're going to go, okay, this is going to cost X number of dollars and it's going to take up X number of employees over a period of time. For instance, the E-P pirate case that everybody's familiar with that happened in B.C. So it was going to be the largest money laundering case in Canadian history. That took two years and 180 RCP officers. So that tied up the entire financial integrity section of the RCMP for two years and then it was stayed so nothing came of it so that's a lot of resources for little results and they still you know they did try and there were just some errors made but you know I won't get into

the whole the whole issue there but I'm just saying that in general in Canada we don't really have the means to do much about things TD Bank is another example right the Americans buying them $3.1 billion and FinTrack finds them $9 million. And we're talking about we're talking about transnational organized crime. We're talking about, you know, state-sponsored activity. We're talking about some of the highest level stuff moving that money, which facilitates a lot of the activity. And in Canada, we're not doing anything about it.

The states is taking a run at HSBC and TD Bank in recent years. And they're looking at others. So that's a consideration. I think I just went off on a big tangent for you. But that's the crux of it. Canada doesn't have a strategy on transnational organized crime. And Canada doesn't recognize transnationalized crime as an assigneurized crime as an scary threat until recently where we just made the cartels a terrorist entity.

So that's kind of the first step. I'm like, okay, by putting the cartels as a terrorist entity, What does that allow law enforcement to do? So that elevates the resources that are available to law enforcement. It also gives them leverage in a legal sense on the laws that can be applied. Terrorist financing, for instance, et cetera. So we have an act called the Proceeds of Crime, Money Laundering, Terrorist Financing Act. So terrorist financing falls under that.

Money laundering does as well. while we've been more successful when it comes to the terrorist financing piece. It also allows us to work with our partners a lot easier because they're looking at the same entities. So when we have cross-border files, some of the requirements are that they've committed crimes in both jurisdictions. So when you cross borders like that, now it's easier for law enforcement to work with other agencies.

In the past, it's been a lot more difficult. There's a lot of paperwork that's involved. Ottawa wants to control the narrative there. Even though there's ways around that, most law enforcement isn't familiar with how to operate with other agencies like the FBI, the DEA, the ATF, etc. And I'm speaking strictly about North America at this point, but that also includes NCA and the Australian federal police. So it's just another step up in the awareness and the case.

abilities that they can assign to the task at hand. So if it's the cartel, now they're a terrorist entity, does that mean that we can employ military assets because we have an anti-terrorist team, right? So the JTF2 actually looks at terrorists as well. So there's different responses that can be taken as opposed to the limitations of just looking at this organized crime, even though pretty much everything in Canada is transnational organized crime, because where do you get? heroin from where you get cocaine from. It's not from this country. So it has to come in from somewhere, which makes it transnational. But right now we're looking at the synthetic problems and how Canada is involved in that. That's one of the big issues that's on the table.

Yeah, and how this all applies to hybrid warfare. I was going to people that are new to Scott, you know, you wrote the book, The Mosaic Effect, how the Chinese Communist Party started as a hybrid war, started a hybrid war in America's backyard. And I was saying to you, you know, before we started, like this hybrid war,

you know, like, if I go back to the middle of COVID, and everybody was talking about different entities, I'm like, if they just dropped a tank on Canadian soil, everybody snaps out of it, wakes up and you go,

there's the enemy. Well, it's time to pick up your weapons because there they are. And this hybrid war, which, hopefully, you can straighten the lane or the road for me because i'm like it's it's really confusing right

like all the tactics that are being used uh all the information that just floods i i don't know i just sit here as me and i'm like at times it's like so is china bad or is china not bad is is uh i don't know iran is one of the ones you mentioned you know uh that are influencing us is is the ua obviously the u s is influencing us like there's just a whole bunch of people that are trying to influence what goes on in here in Canada. And this hybrid warfare isn't, you know, a bullet going past your ear. It's a whole bunch of different tactics. And I'm hoping that you can maybe enlighten me today.

I'm sure you can. Sure. Yeah, hybrid warfare are unrestricted warfare operations in the gray zone. And there's a bunch of different terminology for it. Academia has adopted the word of hybrid warfare now. It's been around forever. It's not something new. I'm a security advisor on the Council for Countering Hybrid Warfare,

which is an international think tank discussing international alternative dispute resolution, arbitration, negotiation, and how that works within conflict around the topic of hybrid warfare, because basically everything is a conflict when it comes to this. Hybrid warfare, in the simplest terms, is political, economic and transnational organized crime. So I just keep it really simple like that, just for just for the listeners. The tactics that are used when it comes to, you know, cognitive warfare, you'll hear all these different terms, cyber. These are all methods of influencing those things.

Hybrid warfare is about control. So controlling the narrative, gaining control of resources. It's all about the control. Is it conducted by all of the nations? Pretty much. Everybody's doing it to a certain extent. They're trying to impact, you know, sentiment in a country. China wants everybody to love China.

So anybody that dissents against them, they're shutting them down. These are things, it's the means that they do it and the intention behind it. So is China good or bad? Well, I'll leave this with you. All of our allies in NATO, the Five Eyes, have intelligence reports. All of those reports, including the most recent one from the United States, identify China as the number one threat, Russia, Iran, and North Korea. Those are facts. Those are made public. Those are things that you can rely on. So the American assessment cited Russia as one of

their major threats. Are these countries all conducting hybrid warfare? They sure are. But the biggest threat of all is China. China attacks Canada and this is an old statistic, this goes back a number of years, but in one province, their provincial infrastructure, so all of their agencies are attacked 3,000 times per minute by China. And Chinese cyber is not some guy sitting in his basement. They have entire brigades of people that work for the military that are conducting these operations. So we're already in a hybrid war. We're already at war with China. People may not want to accept it, and that's fine.

But the intelligence community understands it, and they know what's going on. The book that I wrote explains it. It's a little bit complicated for the average reader, but it lays it all out. And it talks mainly about the political stuff. So the intention behind China's obsession with Canada is that, we are next to the United States. Thus, the book is about what happened in America's backyard, which is Canada.

So the infiltration of Canada has been critical for the United States for the last 30 years. And the book has an opening, which is about a document written by the Department of Justice in the United States, including the NSA, FBI, CIA, and everyone else, identifying Canada as a national security threat to the United States because of the Chinese activity

going on within our government, within our institutions, within our critical infrastructure. That's 30 years ago. Canada had written a report about that as well, but it was shut down. It was called Sidewinder, Project Sidewinder. This one is called Dragon Lord. So it's in the book. If I may, just for a quick time second.

My book list keeps growing on these Canadian authors that are doing things. I'm chewing my way through Sam Cooper's book, gives mention to yours. And then of course, gives mention again. And I'm like, oh, man, I didn't, you know, I'd never heard of Sam Cooper. I've certainly never heard of you. I'd never heard of a bunch of different people when it comes to regards to what we're talking about. But I look at the things you're rattling off, political, economic, and transnational as being the three main areas of hybrid warfare. And the whole goal is to control the narrative.

I would say the narrative has been controlled very well up until just recently, I would guess. And I would put that to a guy being elected down south and then pushing on certain things and a whole bunch of information starting to be uncovered, which has been sitting there for a long time. Forgive me for interrupting. Nope. I would say that you're pretty accurate in that. And Canadians are confused.

This stuff is complex. This isn't an episode of Law and Order, you know, where it's kind of got a theme how it's going to lay out and the good guy wins in the end, usually. it's not as simple as that. It's much more complex. So trying to understand what's happening isn't easy for the average Canadian because it's not easy for subject matter experts or, you know, people in academia, especially when you, like you just said, you've never even heard of me, right?

So my background helps bring credibility to what I'm talking about. Because when I first talked about it, you know, it was looked at it as, okay, who is this, this guy? It almost sounds conspiracy theory. The problem is that what I did was bringing intelligence people from all the five eyes into the RCMP to have discussions about it. So this dialogue has been going on for a number of years, over 10 years. And the awareness is just increased and increased sentiment in the country has changed because of these discussions and, you know, media coming out. and starting to talk about some of the things. Sam Cooper and I share the same publisher

who's been brave enough to bring lawfare. And the lawfare is what really constricts information from getting to the people that need to have it. Yeah, you know, on this side, some of my skepticism of everything, the reason why hybrid warfare is so, just a lot going on on it, It's because I live through COVID, you know, and people can have their thoughts on whatever side they're on.

But it's not like the Five Eyes or RR, CMP or City Police or, you know, on and on and on, got COVID right. Like, I mean, like, to me, the narrative was shut up and do what you're told. You're not allowed to leave this country if you don't do certain things and on and on and on. So now we sit here, I think a lot of us and we're like, we're trying to figure this out. and I'm listening to everything. I'm like, this is wild to me. Because, like, you're talking about working with the Five Eyes, and the Five Eyes were some of the worst countries when it came to COVID.

Like, it's just like, what the heck is going on, you know? I guess that's where my skepticism, and not skepticism, I shouldn't say it that way. It's just this hybrid warfare thing. When we talk about different narratives, the narrative that was put out by the Five Eyes, you know, was almost blatantly wrong for, all of COVID, unless you have a different viewpoint on that. And I'm definitely interested to hear it. Yeah, the COVID situation is tricky.

I would say that precautions regarding biological weapons wasn't really something that was discussed as much. So the preparedness piece, everyone was caught off guard by this. And controlling the narrative piece, you have to understand that. without having a plan in place, which we do have plans for certain things, earthquakes and natural disasters, et cetera. But they involve all the things you're talking about, locking things up, martial law, all that kind of stuff comes into play when society is expected to be hit that way.

That's the old plan. No one had ever experienced something like this before and understood what to do about it. And so the reactions were way over exaggerated considering what was it, 99.9% of people that got COVID were going to live. So, you know, being in the military, we've been given lots of inoculations. Anthrax ring a bell. There's lots of them, stuff for malaria that we've been given that causes brain damage. And at first you didn't have a choice. And then you had a choice, but then you would be deployable, which means you're not employable,

which means your career is done for it. So we're familiar with that kind of thing. The problem I think with COVID was people were afraid to say, although some people did, they tried to call it the China flu and some other things, which came across as racist, even though other things have been called the Spanish flu, etc. So I had a conversation with a defector from China who worked in the intelligence arena. And they explained to me what happened with COVID. which kind of fit with the understanding that people are getting now about what happened at Wuhan and the wet market.

People don't understand that people at work in China don't make a lot of money. Even at the Wuhan laboratory. And so when you have cadavers that you're done with, well, people can sell that. And so when they talk about a leak, I would say that, you know, the possibility, of that cadaver getting into the wet market, which is just down the road or across the street, was pretty good. Considering the fact that people have been eating bats

near the caves for 200 million years or, you know, just forever and never got COVID. So something happened in that lab and it got out. We know that now. It's becoming a lot more mainstream and the understanding about how it spread, that's a whole other story. I mean, we had the world military games being held there, and a lot of people got sick on their way home. So the spread of COVID is more of a concern to me,

and perhaps the intention behind it. How the countries responded? Well, now everybody knows. Because before, no one knew what would happen if a pandemic was going to hit the globe. Nobody understood exactly what they were going to do about it, including the countries that probably worked with it, considering we had our own Winnipeg lab issues, right? Well, this, so I would say that. Sorry. Go ahead. Well, I was just going to say here in Alberta, Colonel David Redmond, they, they'd put out a plan.

And, and, you know, and then I go to Dr. Gary Davidson's report. They basically took the, the plan that outlined what you should do in these cases and threw it in the garbage and then proceeded. And then you talk about people did speak out. They did. And we've, we've seen the Twitter files. We've seen all these different things on how they shut that down. Now we have documents from Namington Police Service,

how they knew there was going to be side effects and that they had to stagger injections so that their entire force wouldn't go down in one day. I'm being a little bit hyperbolic in the way I say that. But I just, I look at it and I go, now, you know, you look at all the stuff going on. This is the confusing thing for me about hybrid warfare. This is, this is, so I sit and I listen and I, I've been listening to Cooper and, and, and, and Cahotis and you and Calvin Krusty and all these people. And I'm like, like, it is wild to me to read Cooper's book and to read about these whales just taking hockey bags of money into the BC casinos. And that we just kind of write that off. I was, oh, no, that's, that's quite all right. I'm like, if I did that, like, me, I would be in jail. There'd be, can we both agree on that?

And then, and then, but through the way they have it set up, okay, that's a criminal enterprise, that's fine. But if I, if I go back a few years to what just happened to our entire country, we had to go, well, we didn't see a comment. I don't know about that anymore. I actually, to me, the deeper I dig, the more it looks like the narrative was constructed and put in place and it played out the way it played out. because there were things in place in order to stop the spread of a pandemic or to adjust for it in society. And all of that was just mothballed and pushed to the side. That is a strong narrative. That is hybrid warfare, in my opinion.

And now you have Donald Trump sitting down in the south. And the only reason I know who you are and I've had all these conversations is because Donald Trump makes the tariff threat and talks about fentanyl. Specifically fentanyl, I think, and correct me if I'm wrong. And so then everybody starts looking at fentanyl. They're like, fentanyl, yeah, we kind of knew there was a federal problem. And then they put out statistics. Oh, it's hardly anything. And then it becomes, well, no, it isn't fentanyl.

It's the precursors. And the precursors are being shipped all over the place, and this becomes a soft landing spot. And one of the things that Calvin Krusty really stuck with me is he's talking about the charter and how it protects the criminal transnational organizations, if I would. And so you go, okay, so we're a safe harbor for, criminal organizations because we can't do anything about it. It's a big story. It's like it's almost like my brain can't handle it at times. And part of the reason it can't handle it is because we got COVID so bloody wrong. And then I'm supposed to just believe that the five eyes and all these things

got my best interests of mind and that we got it right. And I'm like, I don't know. I'm struggling with that a little bit, Scott. I guess that's where I'm at when I was asked about hybrid warfare because I feel like it just got used against us a couple of years ago. So the hybrid warfare piece regarding COVID, do you remember the Sino vaccine and the agreement that the government made to, no? Okay. So Canada made an agreement with China to get a vaccine from them. Canada sent all of its masks to China because we're, you know, we're trying to be the good neighbor, which was a ployed. Because what happened when they returned those masks is they sent us fake masks in return.

So basically they gave us defective masks that our population wouldn't be able to utilize. So they screwed us. And then they reneged on the whole Sino vaccine. So the vaccine that was meant to save us never happened. And we were forced to go and use the stuff from the Americans, et cetera. So there was a bigger game at play over those things. And I don't disagree with you. People took advantage during COVID, obviously.

It was a time when people got to test their theories and put things in place that I never saw coming. And I've been in this world a long time. And I reported every single day of COVID about what was happening with it. I talked to epidemiologists on both sides of the equation. And airing on the side of caution was the choice of government. But to what extent? I mean, obviously, a lot of people didn't want to get the vaccine, you know, and other people were thinking, well, if you don't get it, then you're going to give it to us. And so this big fear piece really established itself within society and perpetuated it.

And then when people try to stand up and say, hey, we've been at this a while, we all seem to be okay. And we go to Ottawa and then suddenly we have the Emergency Measures Act enforced, which is crazy because, you know, Because in India, they had protests of the similar nature and they lasted a year and they didn't do anything. So there's concerns. Unfortunately, there were elements that hijacked the narrative in that. So there's another piece of hybrid warfare. So when you have extreme right wing groups that come into what we call it the Freedom Convoy, and they try to hijack that profile, they try to come in and say, hey, you know,

this is us, not them, there's a lot of confusion that goes on. And I think there were some mistakes made when it comes to making those assessments. That's my personal opinion. But at the same time, I understand why Ottawa does what it does. There's a lot of influence in Ottawa from the Chinese. And I would say that controlling the population and understanding how to, to do that is important to the people that are governing it. So when they get the control, again, we're talking about controlling the narrative.

They're reluctant to let it go. That provided them with a lot of opportunity to do other things, as we noticed. So during that time of COVID, we weren't looking at transnational organized crime. We weren't looking at all of these other factors that are going on in the world. we were solely looking at who's going to die, who's not going to die, that you know you had your charts up and all that kind of stuff. And some of the last stuff is, it all depends, garbage in, garbage out. So, you know, statistics, I like to say, statistics 60% of the time,

they're right every time. So I don't really like to go with the statistical analysis. I think we're locking in an understanding and comprehension of what, you know, something like SARS that happened previously, what could happen from there? We didn't learn a lesson from SARS. And people were worried that this was going to be much bigger. I don't understand why we didn't understand in the first early days of COVID what was really going on. But there we go.

I mean, this is global. This isn't just the five eyes. This is everywhere in the world. And then the dialogue around whether you get vaccinated or not vaccinated, I mean, Sweden shows. not to and then they're showing statistics that Sweden's death rate was going up because they weren't getting so there's a lot of fear being introduced into society over these but I just I just go back to the hybrid warfare thing when I when I see what you said hybrid warfare you can do it

three different ways and and correct me from wrong political economic transnational organizations and the whole goal is to control the narrative there you go why were they putting fear on Sweden because it went against the narrative. The narrative was we're going to vaccinate the world. That was the narrative. I mean, it's just so simple to me. So anything that stood out against it didn't go that way. India was, or Mexico, were the people giving out ivermectin.

And what did they do with ivermectin? It's horse paste. Don't do that. That's terrible. Meanwhile, we've all seen all the information come out about ivermectin at this point. It's almost laughable that that was the narrative. And that was the narrative. And so I go, we've lived through hybrid warfare.

Like we lived it here in Canada for two years. No question. It's like this is why it's so confusing when you go to today. And if I pull us off of COVID for a second and I go to, we just witnessed Carney win the liberal leadership race and knock off 250,000 people from voting. Now, were there bots in there? Oh, I am certain of it. 50,000, I have a hard time believing that. I have a very hard time believing that. And then he gets put in as

the prime minister. And you look at this election and I go, to me, I can already see the narrative being constructed that Carney is this grown up in the room and he's going to stand up to Donald Trump roughly team Canada elbows up. You can see the narrative being played out. And to me, it looks like hybrid warfare on the Canadian population all over again. Now, there are international or transnational organizations that they're playing chess with, the United States being for sure one. Donald Trump has become the evil guy to the South. And is China in there? That's why I have you on, because you're going to tell me exactly how China's doing their nefarious stuff. And I assume others. I don't know if I have a question in there. Well, you're not wrong about China. Yeah, foreign threats.

is really where my strengths lie. I don't tend to go into the political stuff too much, even though, as we move in, politics is one of the areas that the influence comes in. When it comes to controlling the narrative, we've seen in Canada the effects of Chinese influence. And the thing is, is that it's not partisan. The Chinese don't look at it and go, oh, those guys are those guys that are like us, we're going to go with them. This is historical in a way.

The way that they found a center of gravity in Canada was through liberal entities. So they've already established this. You've talked about Power Corps and all these other groups, the Laurentians, et cetera, that were involved. Justin Trudeau's dad and his visit with Mao and his visit to Russia, et cetera. So this stuff is all kind of background information on the influences that happened in Ottawa and establish themselves there and remain there now. So that's not going to change.

But to understand that China's not just looking at the liberals, they're looking at controlling our decision makers across the board. So everyone will be approached. This is grassy stuff. This is mayors of cities. This is, what do you call it? The boards of your condo. All that stuff.

The influence is immense. Buying up farmland and sitting on it. People think that they're going to be doing something with it right away. There's no rush. The Chinese have a long game in some aspects, and in some aspects they move things faster. It's very coordinated. There's a lot of intention behind it.

It matches up with their desire to have world. domination by 2050. Xi Jinping is now in power for life. They remove entities that get in their way, and they've been doing it for a long time. Hundreds of thousands of people are disappeared every year in China. And some of that's for different reasons. Some of it's because they oppose the regime. Sometimes it's because we have political prisoners, and we need their organs to be replaced

for officials within the CCP. There's lots going on in terms of China's intentions, but make no mistake. The two superpowers in the world are China and the United States, and they are competing heavily right now. That is the narrative. Everybody else that gets involved are semantics. Canada is in a position on US's border, and China has been working here for a long time. Americans know this. It's the premise of my book. So why is the United States upset with Canada?

The tariff thing is 25%. It's lower than a lot of other things. It's not really something that it is a bargaining chip. It's a poke in the chest to say, hey, get your your shit together. But really that it's delivered isn't exactly something that Canadians are going to embrace. Now, don't get me wrong, some Canadians embrace it wholeheartedly. But a lot of Canadians don't. If you're sitting there on the intelligence side and you're looking at the influence China is exerting on Canada or other foreign entities,

what, I don't know if what can law enforcement do or leadership or the population account? You know what I'm kind of trying to pull it? Because I'm like, what am I supposed to, you know, sitting on this side and listen to us. I'm like, okay, what can we do about it? Right? Because like, like, I think the things. thing that that sticks out to me about China is like I don't know if I needed an expert to tell

me they're influencing certainly some of the ways has been shocking but like I just used my eyes and my ears and like they own oil companies uh you know like I had a blacksmith on the most random uh thing on a blue card round round table and he started talking about how he makes uh in his forge he uses coal but you know sometimes the coal is tough because the cleanest coal we don't have any of it and then he caught himself and he's actually we do. China just owns the mine and they send it all to China. And you go, oh, that's interesting, right? Like, so you can see where they own different parts of everything you've just said. So as a Canadian population, or I don't know, is it politicians? Is it, is it law enforcement? Like,

how do you deal with that? Like, what are we, what are we supposed to do? That's, and that's always the question, isn't it? It's, it's a complex issue. That's what the think tank that I'm a part of is, is looking at as well. But I think Canadians awareness is increasing. And that's what I'm a big part of is trying to create this awareness and understanding that we have these threats in Canada. And we're limited in what we can do about it. And why is that? So how do we make that happen? We need a whole bunch of different change. We need legal reform. We need police reform. You're hearing things about, you know, our federal police assets are being used for provincial needs or municipal needs because of the way it's structured. So there's a lot of issues that that kind of the trickle down effect.

And so when it comes to understanding it, that's the first part. So if people don't even understand what it is that's going on, can't do anything about it. Now that we're starting to get some of this information out, their sentiment is growing to understand that China is not good. I mean, I'm hearing things about, well, if America is attacking us with terrorists, we should, the Chinese aren't attacking us. They want to give us money, so we should go with them. And the reason I point back to, you know, the American threat assessment or NATO or Five Eyes threat assessments

is that this is long-established historical trend about the entire activity of a nation state against Western interests. That's a big piece of collection. It's not a bunch of people on Twitter. it's not, you know, somebody understanding a little piece. This is much, much larger than that. This is about the development of certain weapons and where they're deployed, the type of training that's used.

All of these factors come into play in understanding that in their white paper, for instance, with China, they state that they want to take over the West. They state that they want to be controlling everything in the world. So it's not like it's someone making an assessment or theorizing. These are statements that are in black. and white written by a government. That's a big thing. So yeah, China is the biggest threat to us. China is in Canada deeper than anyone can imagine. Everything is saturated. That's the scary part about it. I'd say that the confusion comes in

with all the disinformation, misinformation, misinformation, and malinformation that is perpetuated across technology, social media, everything. That's where it gets difficult. for Canadians to understand which way is up. You lose sight of who's your friend, who's your foe. It's why we have people that are saying America is getting pokey chess with us. We're hockey players. Let's get in a fight. As opposed to thinking, hey, they're trying to point you in the direction of what's happening

and why there's concern. The concern has gotten to the point where if anybody is following the United States, almost all of the indictments that the Justice Department is releasing has to do with transnational organized crime threats and national security threats, a lot of which are related to Canada. It's all there. This is open source information. Anybody can read this stuff and understand that Canada is a hotbed of terrorist entities. We have the IRGC. We have Cuds Force. We have everything. Hezbollah. We have the Palestinians. Yes, all of this stuff. So these are all recognized entities. And we still have to have somebody that recognizes them.

So now we have the cartels. So all of these things are operating here in Canada. You mentioned fentanyl. Well, the fentanyl production that was just in British Columbia was 95 million doses. Where do you think that's going? You can ask this question on an AI application and say, Canada doesn't have the local need for 95 million doses. What would they be doing with it?

And it'll tell you that we are a transshipment point that we export it. And we know this already. The stuff that you're catching at the border, well, it's a long border. And I don't know if anybody's ever taking a tour of it. But if you think people are stopping... Do you say, are you suggesting people could just walk across the border?

Yeah. Did you imagine? Well, when you get two helicopters for the entire Canadian border, I mean, come on. You're not, it's a token effort. And I think, you know, it's not. necessarily a move in the wrong direction because anything that bolsters trying to stop this activity is great again if you want to talk well so this law enforcement you know constrained well yeah

of course they're constrained they don't have the tools they need they don't have the resources but the biggest one is is the legislation and the justice system and the difficulties that we have in prosecuting these things they want to do it there's great people in law enforcement they want to stop all this stuff these guys are gone whole they don't want this in their country They want their kids having all this stuff around them. But they're constrained. And that's an issue. And how do we do that?

Well, a lot of people would say, then you have to go to government. Well, government's been infiltrated. So how do you change that? The Canadian citizens en masse have to come together and decide that that's something that they want to do is make these changes. Do you think, do you think Kearney's compromised? There's been different things come out with his connections to China and, and just other things in there. You know,

I just had a thing out about McKenna TD Bank, the $3.1 billion, the fact they both worked at Brookfield, you know, on and on and it goes. Like, what do you, you know,

where you sit, you know, like, I don't know. I'm just in, you know, an everyday person who started down this road, Scott.

And I don't have the military. I certainly don't have the intelligence back. ground, everything like that. All I do is talk to people over and over and over again, trying to get to, oh, man, there's a solution right there. That's how this basically started. And so at times, I can get really annoyed because I'm like, it's like there is no solution. And that is by design. And that is what people are going to text me. I can already feel it. But I come back to Carney. And I look at it and I go, you know, I thought Justin Trudeau was bad. I look at Carney. it's like I'm watching.

I keep calling it the liberal mafia. It's like the liberals are just bringing in the worst human beings possible that have no ethics that are going to take our money, that are going to allow the different transnational groups to do exactly what they're going to do. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you have something different to tell me. You're like, carnie's not that bad of a guy.

I almost want to punch myself and say, face for saying that, folks. But regardless, maybe Scott has some pieces. of information that's going to be enlightening. Thanks for being so direct. So one thing I'm very careful of what I speak publicly is about identifying people in a certain light. Will I say that there is questionable activity in the Kearney camp? I would say that there's a lot of information out there that would indicate that that is

true. Now, historically, we've seen. A lot of information come out about what's going on and concerns around FI. So we have had an inquiry that has identified that there is foreign interference. And that foreign interference is affecting certain individuals, certain parties. Then I would say, well, based on that information, then, you know, you have to come to your own conclusions. And I, you know, just like what you've done. You've just said you're piecing things together from open source information and you're

thinking for yourself so somebody's not telling you what's going on you're you're starting to understand it yourself that's the key for all Canadians because the minute that you introduce a topic where where they're they're they're so sensitive about the word Trump alone will will set people off they already have an automatic response to anything beyond the moment that you say that and so it's the same thing when you you start beating the liberal horse, right? Because I've been talking about this for a very long time. And it just becomes old hat. And it doesn't have the same impact as forcing people to come to their own conclusions

about the information that's in front of them. So I prefer to say that there are pieces of information that you can look at to draw your own conclusions about who's being influenced, understanding that hybrid warfare is in play here. What pieces of information would you steer the audience to? to go look at that you think is like these documents are really important. Yeah, I think there's, there's connections between corporations that people are involved in. When you when you talk about their ethics, et cetera, sort of the motivations behind individuals, it doesn't change people are people. It doesn't matter where you go in the world.

They have a different perspective on things. Some of them have different ethics and morals. So you have to put yourself into their shoes to try. try to understand why they make the choices that they made. A lot of it can be money driven. You know, you'll always hear the financial guy saying, follow the money. And I always say, look for the control because people that already have a lot of money, making more money is always nice, but it's not, it's not everything.

You know, once you have that much money, you want to go to Mars or whatever. And so that's something I would look at. I would look at where. So when you say look at the control. Yeah. I don't want to put you on a specific person, but I don't know how better not to do it. So forgive me, once again, I don't, I don't mean to be this direct. I just, if you want to give me a certain individual in the, in the past, when you're, when you're saying control, I just want the example.

So you can kind of get my mind to wrap around it. I look at Carney and I go, or Trump, even for that matter, you know, like what's the motivation for a very, very wealthy guy to, to come in and I pick on Carney because I'm like into a losing situation. It makes almost zero sense to any Canadian. Why a guy of his prestige, if you would, his stature in those different circles, to walk into almost, it would be like walking onto the 32nd place NHL team expecting to win the cup. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense when he could have just waited another four years or whatever. And then the liberal parties, you know, the conservatives make some missteps.

and then he walks in and he's the guy. That narrative makes sense. This one doesn't. This one almost makes zero sense. So if it's not about, I guess, where's the control in that? Or if you got a different example, I just prefer an example on the control. Because I like that thought process.

I'm just having a hard time maybe seeing it and maybe you can give me a picture. Man, you're getting into some heavy topics. The Canadian government isn't really designed. for the people to make all the decisions. It's designed for the party in power to be able to control the country. And that dates back to our founding, upper and lower Canada. We had two news agencies, you know, so you have the left and the right.

And that's how it kind of started to grow out. You didn't want to have the rest of the country be able to take over. I mean, there's a reason we had kings. in Queens, right? So the monarchy controlled who controlled the country. That didn't change in the Commonwealth really. And Canada has that issue to this day. It's why when we pass laws, we have to have royal assent, which makes not a lot of sense, does it? Because we're a sovereign nation. So there's there's things that are happening on the parliamentary side. And remember, I'm not a political guy. I know. I keep pulling you back to politics. Yes, I apologize.

It's okay. When it comes to the control piece, you know, having a leader that wants to come in into the position, the most difficult position where you're really just the voice of a larger group of people. You're going to surround yourself with advisors. You're going to be involved. And he's been involved, like you're talking about Carney right now, been involved with people his whole life. And so those people don't go away. Those relationships grow. They may fade.

New relationships may come in. And there's going to be influences. And what we've noticed through the, you know, the FI inquiry is that those influences are in our nation's capital. They're not just in the nation's capital. They're all across the country. And so when it comes to who they're going to put into those roles, I'm sure there's more discussion behind it than some guy goes. I think I want to be prime minister. I would dare say there's boardroom meetings and a lot of people having discussions about their way forward.

This strategy would not be as short-sighted as we're just going to put this guy in here for a month and then carry on. There's likely a lot more going on behind the scenes because that's the nature of politics in general. But it's also hybrid strategies by other countries because if they can influence what's going on, then they may have an interest. And people, you have to understand that this isn't always direct. This isn't, you know, the leader of China or some, you know, Chinese national spy guy going right to the, to somebody and saying, this is what you're going to do. This is done through proxies.

This is done through nominees. This is done through organizations and groups where you may be a board member of, et cetera. There's lots of ways that information gets impressed upon you with the carrot and the stick. So what's going to hurt and what's going to help? So people can be leveraged. People can be involved for different reasons. And that coercion is the corruption that we suffer from.

So moral integrity, these old values that a lot of people grew up with have shifted. We see it with the woke movement, et cetera. We see these movements arise and try to challenge kind of what we knew as the standard. So people always go back. I wish it was like the old days. Well, things were a lot more simple in the old days. For one thing, we didn't have the telecommunications that we have now. We have a whole lot more going on at a much more rapid pace.

And there's a lot more voices to try to listen to. I don't know if you've tried to listen to a podcast, but there's hundreds of thousands of them and there are all the genres from anything you could possibly think of. So how do you know what is relevant? because it's only what's relevant in your world. And so until it impacts you, much like what happened with real estate in Canada, suddenly people got worried about it because it started to impact them.

They didn't have a problem right up until a certain point. That's the same sort of concept is that if you can keep it just below the level of people taking too much notice, you're cooking the frog in the pot. You know what that saying, right? Yeah, frogs in boiling water. There you go. So that's the idea behind what goes on in Canada. They apply it everywhere and not just China, because like you said, there's also the Iranians and others that are here that are doing similar things.

And we're just we're in a place in Canada. We're trying to do something about it. You're fight, flight, or freeze. And I feel like we're in freeze because there's people that want to do something, but can't. Then there's people that are trying to do something, but they can't because they're held back, right? So because of the constraints that we have. That's where it gets tricky. Canadians get frustrated.

Canadians are sitting there going, you will see it in every comment section of any crime that's listed in the news. And they will say, well, we don't have them going to jail for very long. And we can't put them in jail. And everybody's upset, right? And it goes on and on and on because no one's. making any changes. So how do we make those changes? Oh, let's get somebody in government. Again, we're going through this cycle. So now you, now you have influence at the political level. So you're trying to make changes. Those people get leveraged and nothing seems to happen.

This has been going on for 30 years. So, so how many, how many years have you been staring at this, Scott? Have you been staring at for 30 years? I have not been staring at for 30 years. Thank God, because once it's been seen, it can't be unseen. Okay. So how long, how long, How long have you been staring at this? I initiated the Five Eyes intelligence stuff, bringing it into law enforcement here in Canada in 2015. Okay, so 10 years. 10 years, yeah. So my book's called The Mosaic Effect.

And the reason that it's called the Mosaic Effect is more than just the intelligence term about Mosaic, which means disparate pieces of information. And then when you put them together, they help you understand the larger picture. For me, it was all the little jobs that I did throughout my life and where I worked, especially in the military, then into law enforcement, then into the provincial law enforcement, and then private sector. So I've done all the little pieces, and then every time I moved, I'd get to see a little bit more, and I'd start to understand a little bit more. We create these dialogues and these relationships. So a lot of things that happen where you're going to find out stuff is relationship-based. It's not cookie cutter where everybody just shows up in a room.

We all talk about everything because nobody wants. We saw this in the Money Laundering inquiry. All the people that were supposed to talk about the problems all lawyered up and said, yep, we didn't do anything. Yep, we didn't do anything. But very few people decided to say what was actually happening and why. So there was no, there was no, there was a concert effort to identify. the problem.

Nobody wanted to go in and say, here's who's causing the problem or how we're going to resolve the problem. Well, I guess that's kind of, so like, I stare at you. I'm like, okay, so you've been on this since 2015, right? Which means you've had thousands

upon thousands of conversations. You've gotten, I assume, with your background, you've been privy to probably a bit of information that most civilians probably wouldn't even dare say, get in the right room, let alone the right conversation and everything else. And I just look at it and I'm like, oh, okay, this is fascinating.

So then my question is, I always come back to politics because to me, this all stems. Like that is a big, big controlling issue in how all, like law enforcement falls under that. All the red tape that gets thrown around, politics. All the rights and privileges that people get, politics. So I hate to keep bringing you back to it. But I guess I'm going to ask over 10 years, have you got to an answer? You're like, that is a, call it the chink in Helms Deep, where if we just hit that, the wall goes down and instead of it being orcs, maybe the orcs are holding the wall,

but you get the point. Have you figured out anything like that? Because, I mean, you've been staring at it for a long time. The issue is that it's always evolving and changing. So let's say we identify an entity that's not good. And information comes out open source and that person gets exposed, etc. They just leave. Now what do you do?

So they leave for five years and then they come back. Well, law enforcement destroys files after seven years. So hopefully they haven't come back seven years later and all the information you had on them is gone. And if they change jurisdictions, and if they change jurisdictions, and if you're So there's that problem. And then things like what's happening right now with the tariffs, et cetera. Look at the sudden shift in sentiment towards the United States. Up until that one tweet, right up until that very moment,

there wasn't a single worry about any of that stuff. And then one tweet. And now that completely polarizes things. I would say that it was a misstep by the United States, in my opinion. But remember, causing chaos is another way to. to establish control. So is Canada in flux right now? Is there conflict?

Are we divergent in a lot of our thinking? I would say very much so. We have an election coming up and people are going to be voting, in likely one of two ways. There could be a little more going in other directions, but I would say in one of two ways mainly. So we're polarized in a lot of ways. People are for the liberals and people that are against the liberal,

liberals. And then if you split that up again, within those parties, those that are against, I would just say Trump, because it's not the United States necessarily. And then those that are for administration. So it gets very convaluiting. I think I personally, I'm beginning to think the liberals are brilliant. And I don't mean that in like the sense I want to go vote for them. You go, it was a misstep by Trump. Sure. But I, you know, I keep coming back to this. They know, exactly who Trump is. All of us do. You go poke him in the chest or go he's going to have a certain reaction. This is, I mean, we all, well, maybe not all of us, but, you know, the art of the deal. I mean, he literally lists it off how many times how he deals with people. And so, like, the,

the reaction that Trump did is about as, like, predictable as it's going to get. And, and, and, and then the reaction to that, if I'm thinking out loud, I guess I am. I'm like, is almost as predictable as you're going to get. It was, because the United States is divisive on Trump too. I mean,

there's obviously got voted in, but like here in Canada, you know, it splits. So you go, it was a misstep. I think it was a brilliant stroke of genius from the liberal party.

That's my, that is my take on it. When I look at it longer and longer and longer, I'm like, man, they were, they were a sinking ship. 35 MPs had all said

they're stepping down. down we're done and maybe it's just a narrative and and one heck of one with all the the talk of us today with hybrid warfare that they're the the poles are all showing the shift there everybody's always coming back and maybe it is just a whole bunch of propaganda BS and he's about to get absolutely slammed but you go back to before Trudeau goes there their ship was pretty much taking on so much water the rats had all gone to land to the next thing they were all gone And now we're sitting here talking like, why, at least I am, folks. I don't know about everybody else.

I just look at it. And the narrative is completely changed. So I don't look at it as a misstep by Trump, although it was. It was. I think, man, I don't know. You start playing moves ahead and you're like, maybe, I don't know. But I still, I go, we better make sure that we talk about how brilliant of a move it was by the liberals. Because they got the response from Trump they wanted and have used it ever since.

Yeah, it changed the narrative, right? Again, so this is what I'm saying about the evolving nature of the environment is that the littlest things can change the news cycle. And if the majority of Canadians are getting their information from mainstream news, then that's where you're going to go. And unfortunately, mainstream news has also got its issues. And there's stuff out there right now about, you know, news agencies and who has shares in them. and all kinds of stuff, right? So mainstream media impacts sentiment and understanding of Canadians, and it's garbage in, garbage out.

So whatever you get fed and whatever you choose to believe, if you don't have critical thinking and you don't have all the information in front of you, right? So mine's like a parachute, only works when it's open. If you've got closed-minded people, if you have, we've always voted this way. If you have, like all of these factors are deep set in Canada. not to mention the fact that very few people feel the need to even go out and vote.

You know, they're like, well, it's just a shit sandwich and this is everybody's going to have to take a bite. That's a terrible analogy, but it's- But it is one that gets used. It is. It's the people that, that's how they look at it. Like, it doesn't matter. They're all, they're all equally bad. I mean, what makes a good politician, the guy that can inspire people to vote for them? How they do that is by playing on human behavior and understand.

I think everything some of these guys are saying is great. And you go and read their platforms and you can go, well, this is really well curated, really well manufactured. But historical trend shows that this is what happens when this type of party is in power. And so you can weigh those against each other. Canadians want somebody to stand up and take notice and fix these problems and do these things. and you know you're just wanted so bad that you're willing to just go out and and either vote or not vote but that's not what's going to happen i'm going to tell you right now you don't change this stuff overnight especially without a single person really coming up and say what they're going to

do about china i don't hear anybody doing that somebody tried to do that before and they were canceled. Who is that? Who is that? Oh, what's his name? Oh, geez. You know, oh, my God. What party? Conservative party.

Recently? Or a long time ago? No, this was a couple years ago. Gosh. Man, I hope you edit this because I should know this. That's all right. I find that. He's a former military guy. Former military guy.

with the conservatives, man, hit my text line up hard, folks. Yeah, I should have stuff to talk to my time. I'm sorry. No, no, no. This is fascinating because I'm like, oh, well, I think there's a lot of listeners. Scott, that would agree that it would, you know, there's a whole lot of issues that don't get talked about on the national stage by many, if any, of the leadership. And I'm curious. not like a couple of years ago I'm like was this in the leadership race when they when

they started X and off guys or or is this something some other time I believe it was in the lead up to it I'm just trying because back then the guys who got X off tool there you go O'Toole brought up China yeah he his whole platform was was around how to counter China yeah wait are you trying to tell me that Aaron Aaron O'Toole, right? Yeah. Okay. I don't know why that sounded for him coming out of my mouth.

Maybe because I'm about to say this, Aaron O'Toole was a guy speaking the truth, because when I look back at the Conservatives having him as a leader, nobody has a good word to say about him. Not a single person. And me watching him, I'm like, this guy sucks. But you're saying he actually talked about China's influence on Canada.

He's the only one that I'm aware of that had a full platform on how to counter China. Yeah. And again, I'm not the political guy. No, no, no, no, no. I find that fascinating. I just know that part for a fact because I was like, holy geez, somebody's taking this serious. And then the next thing I know, he's gone. So whether that was by design. Well, that's, it's just fascinating to hear you say that because I'm like, I think you just shocked me and the entire audience. Because I don't think anybody said a positive word about

Erno Toul on this show, I'm going to say ever. And the fact that he had a platform that was speaking to the danger of China. That's interesting to me. Right. And now I'm like, I got to go think about it. It was interesting to me too. I was like, holy geez, this is pretty balsome. It was it was comprehensive. It wasn't just a we need to do something about them. That's not, that wasn't the case. They had a whole plan. So that was impressive. to me. I didn't follow it. Again, I wasn't following the political side of things at that point and had a book coming out. So we were mainly focused on that. If people wanted, before I later, one, if people want to buy your book where I assume,

I assume Amazon, but at the same token, toss them in name of your book again, Scott, where they can buy it from. Sure. It's called the Mosaic Effect, how the CCP started a hybrid war in America's backyard by Ena Mitchell and Scott McGregor. And it's in Amazon, Barnes and Noble. You can get it at all your bookstores. Most of them are sold out right now,

but it's getting a lot of traction lately because of what's happening and trying to understand. What year did you write it? So we spent a couple of years with the publisher through editing and legal vetting. So it was legal vetted thoroughly. And it came out, But oh geez, 2023 now, November 2020, so almost 224.

It's about a year and a half old. And then I guess the final question I got for it, because, you know, as I stumble into these conversations, my curiosity, I'm like, who's a Canadian that you follow that you're like, nobody knows about, but is literally saying something that needs to be heard? Because I feel like I found this, this, you know, I don't know. Is it, is an oil analogy the best, folks? It's like you did a little bit of seismic activity and all of a sudden you found this big, well, you're like, what the heck? What happened here?

Like, why didn't I even know about this? Is there somebody else that you're like, well, if you haven't talked to this guy, you probably should? Well, I mean, if you're sticking to Canadians, I honestly think that you've had some of the best people on here. If you want to know more about China, there's Charles Burton. He's another intellect on China that I would recommend. The difficulty is when you get into specifics on an open source platform like this, it's difficult to talk about specifics for people that have worked in that area. For journalists, for normal citizens that aren't sworn a secrecy for the rest of their life, it's a lot easier.

We have to be very careful about how we go about it. The lawfare piece that I was mentioning is something that a lot of us are encountering more and more. It's a big part of the council on countering hybrid warfare where we're teaching in law schools to law students about what's going on so they can become aware of what hybrid warfare is and think of the potentials beyond a predicate offense. And so that's, you know, I think Cal Krusty was one of the best ones that you've had on here in terms of, someone that's got global experience is talking to people at a very, very high level on a regular basis. And so the understanding that you can acquire from someone like that is big.

He's also a negotiator that I'm sure he mentioned. And that piece right there, when you're dealing with the bad guys, you're looking at their perspective as well. That's important because Canadians tend to just think about what what's, what their perspective is and how they see the world and not necessarily understanding. Like when you look at China, they got over a billion people there and they've got to control them all some way. India is a democracy. China is not. How are those two dealing with the size of their populations and what measures are they taking? One thing that happens in China, is they're very nimble. Look at them being able to produce the weaponry that they are,

increasing their military. So they can pivot really fast. They can have construction done in no time because they don't have all the safety regulations and everything that we do. So when people say, you know, they admire the Chinese for certain things, that's probably one of them because they're able to achieve things quicker because it's one guy saying, do it, get it done, I don't care. And nobody's going to argue or question them. They're not going to have court cases about it. Nobody's going to protest them. Because none of that will happen. You try to do that in North America. Like look at Canada with like you want to talk about the oil industry. The third largest oil reserves in the world in Canada. And we have what a housing problem, food prices,

all of this stuff. We have more land than we know what to do with. We have all of the resources we need to be probably one of the wealthiest countries in the world and people are struggling. That doesn't make any sense at all, does it? So why is it? What is the root cause of those things? And if it's political, because it somewhat is, then that's something that Canadians need to take a look at and ask themselves, you know, why is this? How can we make these changes? If you're not happy with who's running in your political writings, then maybe we need to be doing something about that.

and you need to, you know, if it's of interest to you, you need to get in there and do something to change it. There's more people in Canada that can influence these things than we realize. We just have to mobilize and get it done. People need to get out, vote, and start speaking about what's important to them and impacting it with government. Because government, once they get in power, seems to be able to do whatever they want. Well, we can change that. It's, you know, we're trying to. But I think the American push right now has woken a lot of people up.

You know, that push got more results than my 10 years of trying to talk to everybody about it. Right? One little poke and all of a sudden we've got a federal czar. We've got helicopters and people saying we're going to put 10,000 troops on the border and all this stuff. And they're all misplaced. You know, it's not very strategic. but it's immediate knee-jerk reaction at least. And so now you can't ignore it.

Canadians will obviously take their foot off of the pedal because you won't hold anybody to account for these things. Meanwhile, we see crime going up. We see a lot of things taking place that are upsetting people and causing confusion. And part of the confusion is by design, right? Like you just said about voting. People are like, who am I going to vote for now?

Now. And why? So you've got, you've got, again, you've got experts saying, this guy's not good. Then you got experts saying this guy's great. So Canadians are in the middle going, which one do I believe? Who is the authority on this? And that's the critical thinking part. And that's why I said you have to go out and find it yourself.

People get home from work. They're tired. They sit down. They don't want to be going through the internet going, well, I need to figure out if this guy is actually a bad guy or actually a good guy. They want somebody to tell them that. And podcasts like this tend to give information that they don't normally get, which is good. It helps them formulate in their mind what their beliefs are and what maybe what they want to do about it. So, you know, I commend you for for having a podcast that speaks freely about so many things.

I would just temper people's understanding that, you know, what I know and what I can talk about are two different things. hopefully my credibility from my background gives some credence to what I'm saying the same as some others that you've had like Cal and and Sam etc that are grounded in information because people are starting to wake up to what's going on and that's good

it's what's going to benefit Canada the most I appreciate you hop on today Scott and adding to the conversation because you're in a long list of, I got a ton of time for men who've, you know, served the country and been in the military. We've done several military roundtables and different things like that.

And appreciate you giving me some time of day and talking as openly as you can. I think everybody gets that you can't talk about everything. I think there's people understand that and can read between the lines in a lot of different ways. And I don't know. I'm going to apologize for bringing politics up. much. It's just with an election, you know, basically a month away, it's hard not to just stare at, you know, all the red tape that law enforcement citizens in general are facing the conditions that make transnational groups want to come here. It all stems from politics as far as I can tell.

So, you know, every time I come back to it, it's like, I know it wasn't where we wanted to go, but you'll have to forgive me on that one. Either way, thanks, thanks, Scott, for for hopping on and doing this. Hey, your problem, Sean. I appreciate time.