Shaun Newman Podcast - #840 - Michael Campbell

Episode Date: April 30, 2025

Michael Campbell is a prominent Canadian business analyst and host of the top-rated podcast Money Talks, which focuses on investing, markets, economics, and personal finance. He is also a senior business analyst for BCTV News on Global and provides daily financial commentary on CKNW radio. We discuss the election, Canadian economy and confidence in media. Cornerstone Forum ‘25https://www.showpass.com/cornerstone25/Get your voice heard: Text Shaun 587-217-8500Substack:https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcastSilver Gold Bull Links:Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/Email: [e-mail] Grahame: [phone]Bow Valley Credit UnionWebsite: www.BowValleycu.comEmail: [e-mail] Use the code “SNP” on all ordersProphet River Links:Website: store.prophetriver.com/Email: [e-mail]

This is Viva Fry. I'm Dr. Peter McCullough. This is Tom Lomago. This is Chuck Pradnik. This is Alex Krenner. Hey, this is Brad Wall. This is J.P. Sears. Hi, this is Frank Paredi.

This is Tammy Peterson. This is Danielle Smith. This is James Lindsay. Hey, this is Brett Kessel, and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks. Happy Wednesday. Okay. Ooh, today's is something.

I just want to, you know, yesterday's I recorded it well before the election, so we've had that all come out. I'm sure for most of us not what we were hoping. Or maybe you were hoping. I don't know. I've had lots of different people texting, calling, and there's some, I don't know, there's just both. There's a lot of different views on this,

which I'm sure we're going to get into over the coming weeks. But I just want to, you know, I've been getting lots of feedback on the live stream. We did 12 hours. I want to thank all the guests that came on. It was incredible to have that many people come on and share their thoughts, insights and then to have you know at the end of the stream simultaneously watching we had just under

89,000 it was 88,700 and change and you know the preliminary numbers over just like you know the first I'm not even at 24 hours as or record this uh was was um you know on the one channel there was over 100,000 people had tuned in and out so I mean like that in itself like you're like that's pretty wild and we were as far as we can tell number two behind the CBC, which is pretty, you know, incredible for people watching simultaneously, right? Like, there's going to be channels out there that got 1.7 million followers that over the course of time are going to have people, oh, just go check it out for a little bit and then come back in. But like simultaneously watching, we were consistently number two behind the CBC, which, you know,

when you think about that, folks, that's freaking wild. So I want to give a shout out to everybody who tuned in. all the guests who tuned on. And then to Bow Valley Credit Union and Silver Gold Bull for being the title sponsors. They really helped, you know, honestly build it up or allow us to come in and do a great show and proceed on to the next ones with some confidence that we can go out and find title sponsors that believe in what we're doing. And then to perform it that well, you know, hopefully in time, that'll become just a fixture of what twos and I do with our mashup live coverages.

Another shout at the Garden Girl. She'd reached out, Ariel. If you haven't checked out Gardengirl.ca, please do. She's been a guest on the mashup before, and just a lovely lady. And then we had a silent donor in the back. You know who you are. Shout out to you as well.

We just think very highly of all of you. I always say that. But truthfully, it's been a crazy 24 hours. You know, the election, hopefully, you know, you enjoyed it. And, you know, obviously, once again, you're staring at what is today and what it means for Canada under, you know, Mark Carney as the prime minister of Canada. Like, it's just, you know, and Pierre Pollyev losing his seat in Carlton, Jagmeet Singh, you know, like on and on and on. I was, you know, never a dull day on this side. So just appreciate everybody who tuned in and helped make the live stream what it was.

I should probably give one more shout out to Brett, who was our tech guy in the back. He just did fantastic work and continues to do. That's how we get the live map and really get to see the live data. We're already, you know, 10 minutes after it's done, we're talking about, oh, yeah, what did we like? What do we didn't like? What can we make better for the next time? And that's what we're going to strive to do whenever the next election coverage comes around. either way, just really appreciate everyone who made it what it was.

And, yeah, I mean, pretty surreal to have those type of numbers for, you know, two small-town Saskatchewan kids, you know, with this idea of trying to make election coverage something you want to tune into. And I think we proved that last night that we have an idea, and it continues to work and continue to appreciate all the guest suggestions that all of you, send this way and we continue to try and track down. Okay, I'm almost five minutes in. I should get to Silver Gold Bull with the number of ounces of silver need to buy an ounce of gold. Now at nearly 30 year high, silver is now bargain priced when it compared to gold. And it's a perfect time

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and they're proud to present the first in Canada gold collateral lending. Now you can all lend against your physical gold and silver for favorable. rates and it's kind of like you know it's kind of like a helic on your gold and silver and if you don't have any they can help get a you get a loan to purchase your gold and silver just shoot welcome at bow valley see you dot com ask for leanna and get your account started today profit river um if you're you're probably sitting there watching the election results going oh my god and you know you heard twos talking about uh the lady out East who got elected, who's all about gun control.

Well, I wouldn't wait, folks. I would reach out to Joel, and he's their internet sales, so phone and internet sales manager. And, you know, if you shoot him an email at SMP at Profitriver.com, for those listening on the podcast, it's all down on the show notes. You can get to, you know, some of their deals, some of the things they got going on. He can help you through it all.

Just make sure whether it's over the phone, in person, online, you reference the code SNP. it's going to get you into a $100 gift card draw every month and that you make a purchase, that is. And of course they specialize in, they are the major retailer of firearms, optics, and accessories. They serve all across Canada. And you just got to go to Profitriver.com.

You can see everything they're working with. Caleb Taves, Renegade Acres. They do the community spotlight. Well, we're just days away now from the Cornerstone Forum. You have until this Friday to, actually, that's a lie. That's a lie. Let me correct that. you have until Saturday night to get your tickets in their full access.

That includes lunch and supper. And the details for the Cornerstone Forum are down on the show notes. I tell you, that won't be a dull time, folks. That is going to be an interesting day, May 10th in Calgary. If you haven't purchased a ticket, I would highly, highly suggest you do. And we're going to have some interesting open conversations happening in Calgary. Substack, it's free to subscribe to.

You can get the weekend review every Sunday at 5 p.m. And you can also become a paid member. There's some behind the scenes footage, usually in the form of pictures, but some relevant details on some different things. Obviously, the debrief on guests when they come in studio. And speaking of studios, we got a new studio. I just got to show it to twos when he was in town.

And it's coming along. If you're wanting to be on the value-for-value, legacy wall. We're looking for skills, labor, materials, money. It all helps. And you can just shoot me a text if you're interested in that. If you're listening or watching on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, Rumble, X, make sure to subscribe, make sure to leave a review, make sure to share with a friend.

The reason we got to 88,000 people watching simultaneously was quite simply all of you who shared it and continued to promote it. That's what we want here. And if you think these conversations are value of other people's times, we'd love it if you'd share it along. All right, let's get on to that tale of the tape. He's a host of Michael Campbell's Money Talks.

I'm talking about Michael Campbell. So buckle up. Here we go. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast today. I'm joined by Michael Campbell. Michael, thanks for giving me some time today. Oh, my pleasure. Absolutely no shortage of things to talk about.

No, isn't that the truth? You know, before we get too, I don't want to skip over what I normally do with a guest the first time they're on. I know there's an insane amount to talk about, but before we get there, you know, like I, I got to give a shout out to my three older brothers.

They've listened to Money Talks for a long time, and they introduced it to me, almost like a rite of passage, if you will. I'm sure at a younger age, lots of kids, including myself, young adults can't be bothered by some of the topics you cover or, you know,

just more of the seriousness of life. And then, you know, you get married, you have kids, and all of a sudden, you're like, what is going on? And they're like, oh, maybe you should listen to Money Talks. And I'm like, oh, okay.

So then you start listening. You're like, this is something, you know, and then you've got your conference. And that's how I got introduced to Martin Armstrong and, you know, and on and on it goes. So for me, I know a lot about you, but I'm going to assume my audience doesn't. So I guess I just want to start with, you know, if you could just tell the audience a little bit about yourself. And you don't have to, you know, you joked about before we started going long winded. this is a podcast. Tell the story and then we'll get into election and everything else. Well, I'll give you the quick version, but I remember I was fascinated with politics,

but understood that you couldn't understand politics without understanding economics, without understanding taxation and things of that sort. And we're going back a long time. We're going back, you know, certainly into the late 70s, early 80s. You know, and from there, I did a lot of broadcasting, very early on and continue to do broadcasting. Very fortunate to work right now with Global TV, but before that there was other manifestations of it. Lectured out at UBC. I think I was the first person to lecture on both the Internet and currency movements. You know, I thought that was a huge hole in our education, not understanding that capital does in fact move.

I worked for Merrill Lynch in New York for a number of years, back out in Vancouver in the investment business. You know, started my own business quite separately in manufacturing. with a terrific partner who sadly has passed away, but that was, I learned an awful lot about things that way. So I've always said, just the practicality is important. You know, I can read it in theory, and it doesn't matter if we're talking markets or we're talking how to run a business, etc. That practical experience, I think, has been invaluable to me. And as I say, you know, when you get this old, I mean, God, and you start living or reviewing all those years, and my God, You can go to so many different directions that way.

But yeah, I mean, it's a business background, a financial background, and financial and economic analysis, really for decades. So it's all of that wrapped into one. And yeah, I'm still, if you can believe, it's still doing a little bit of broadcasting, still doing stuff, still doing money talks, et cetera. And it's a fantastic time to do it, a time that we sort of had forecast a number of years ago,

that this is, we're just continued to gain momentum in the rate of change. Well, I want to go back. I don't, you tell me when it is, but you know, I got introduced to Martin Armstrong in 2020. And I remember watching virtually your conference and being like, who the heck is this guy? Like, honestly, some of the things he was saying, I was like, this is pretty wild. And then, you know, as the story goes, I got to have Martin on here. And since then, several times, quite consistently, actually. And that was almost a surreal moment for me to just like sit and talk to this guy.

Now, I've only been talking to Martin, you know, let's just say I've been introduced to him in the last five years. When did you first stumble on Martin? And what was it that stuck out to you that you're like, this is somebody to pay attention to? Well, I've been at the University of Sussex in England. And I got firsthand what currency movements mean, you know, what the exchange rate does because I had a fixed rate Canadian dollar scholarship. But the Canadian dollar fell. So when I was converting to, in that case, the pound, you know, it was, oh my gosh, I've got a lot less money. And again, none of this was taught at university for years, decades to come about the importance of currencies.

Well, there's Marty writing about capital movement as being the key variable to understand. So we're talking back 1981, 82. The other thing that I got tremendous benefit from my friendship with Marty over the years was he, introduced me to computer modeling. And I'm talking again. We're talking over 40 years ago. He already had a model up and running. Wasn't the Socrates model at that point. And really getting me to understand that the human mind can't process the number of variables that have an impact. And I'm talking back in those days. It was very different for people to think that it's not just domestic issues that impact the price of a stock or the price of the currency or something like gold or even

real estate. Vancouver, that became a lot more obvious when we started to have the first influx of sort of Hong Kong Chinese buying of real estate. Then people said, wait a second, that's an external variable impacting us. Well, Marty's the pioneer in that. It's certainly the pioneer in capital flows. And so to be able to have that understanding and have the understanding of how modeling works, I had tremendous benefit from Marty over the years. one final on martin because i'm just always curious you know and fascinated by you know i've watched the documentary on them i've been able to talk to him a ton about just life in general away from the things that have went on in in the models and what is predictions and on and on but one of the

things you know as a guy who ran into him in the 80s and you get to see him predict some of the things you're like this is I assume I sit here and I assume because I was born in 86 so you can just imagine I wasn't thinking about any of this for a long time. That must have been wild and I assume it was wild when he ended up in prison and started releasing things there just from where you sat were you like what is going on in the world or um I don't know I'd just be curious your viewpoint on a few different key moments through uh through those times yeah I knew Mark very well by then, you know, and when word came that he had been put in prison, I was in shock. And then when I read what it was about, which, by the way, everything they said at the outset

of putting Marty in prison, they completely dismissed. You know, I mean, really where I think it came down to was Marty came home one day. At that point, he's living in New Jersey, and the CIA was in his house. They wanted the model that had called successfully the fall of the Berlin Wall to the day, the peak in the Niki index. More recently, the current. issues that were going on, especially again with the Russia changes in Russia. They wanted the model. Marty was not going to give them the model. Next thing he knows they're in his house and he's arrested. And he was held in contempt of court, the longest standing citizen in U.S. history. He was held in contempt, not convicted of anything. And, you know, clearly there was other issues going on.

I mean, keep in mind the track record of that modeling, and Marty would always tell you it's not him. It's the model he uses was, you know, magnificent, including, you know, one of the days I remember because I sort of smile at it. He was always very generous with his time with me, and I phoned him up. And he says, look, I can't talk right now. I'll give you a call back. And he phones back and he says, sorry, Margaret Thatcher was in my office and they were wondering about the euro at that point. I'm saying, yeah, but I know he advised, you know, the Reagan White House too, you know, and right up to more recently, you know, talking to RFK. And I think Marty had a great influence that he did not run.

He said, you can't win. My model says you cannot win. So you better decide what your role is going to be, who you want to be. So it continues to this day. But the actual incarceration is a phenomenal injustice. You know, as I say, he'd go into the court and the CIA would be in the courtroom, you know, with him, continued to deny. And you know, as I say, long-standing person who was held in contempt of court.

But with horrendous incidences along the way, along the way. Like one day his cell door was left open and he got beaten over the head with a typewriter and put in a coma. And just the list just goes on with him. And you know what's remarkable, Sean is when I talked to him the day after he got out. I couldn't believe the lack of bitterness in him. Me, I'd be saying, you know, I'm glad there's no gun control. You know what I mean? they stole part of his life. They stole so much from him over the years. But no, he just went on, you know, and obviously welcomed.

When he first came out, by the way, he didn't think anybody would want to hear him. And I was asked that on the documentary. I said, well, you know what? I know the business pretty well. And generally when you call every major turn in the market, they'll still like you. And of course, that's what's happened. But you would know this better than most, obviously, with your relationship. with him. And in the short time, I've got to know, Martin. I am struck by his humbleness,

actually. I've talked to him lots on the phone. I have my event coming up in May 10th here in Calgary. He's coming to it in person. And like, I've dealt with a lot of people on this show. And, you know, not to gush over Martin Armstrong by any stretch. But you would think a guy like that, as you're pointing out, he comes out and he's not bitter. I'm always struck at how just, you know, I don't know, just humbly is. I actually don't know of a better word than that. He's just a regular guy, I guess. Maybe that's the best way to put it.

I don't know. And you probably have seen that now for 40 plus years. Yes, absolutely. I mean, I've never seen anything else but that. But that's part of the analytical mind in that, as I say, Marty will regularly point out that it's the model that's doing the talking, not him. And he'll say, anytime I have opposed the model, I can wrong.

Okay. So one of the things, and this is what gets me in an election, you know, when I talked to Martin, I can't remember what that was. Three years ago, we talked about Canada splitting up into, you know, is it multiple countries? Is it multiple, you know, he just, and I'm like, Martin, how does that happen? He's like, how does it happen? I have no idea, you know, like, and I'm like, okay, well, what big event would happen? He's like, what could be something so inconsequential.

How could we possibly predict that? And then 2025 election happens. And I know the sentiment here in Alberta. Yeah. And I go on one more piece into what Martin's prediction is because, you know, I thought if Pierre gets even a minority, it's going to dampen the resolve of Western Canadians. Instead, it's a liberal minority. and, you know, with what seats the NDP are getting, it looks like they could form government,

and you know, and you look at that and you're like, oh, maybe that adds into it. I guess to switch off Martin into Canada, the election, you sat down, I'm sure you watched it all, I'm sure you have your thoughts. You know, Pierre loses his seat, Singh loses his seat, Carnegie gets the liberal minority. I know that's a whole lot to throw at you,

but, you know, it just happened in less than, you know, less than 12 hours ago as we're talking here. What sticks out to your, what, what are your thoughts on the Canadian election? Well, I put it also back into a bigger picture, like a geographic picture. And there's very few countries where the incumbent party won. Now, it did it in Ireland, it did in Western Australia and a few others. But then we have the notable exceptions where the sort of throw the bums out kind of approach, which we saw in the Netherlands, which we saw in Italy, Argentina.

And so it's that context. I was fascinated on a big picture to see where we're at in that cycle. And when they started, the poll started to say that Mr. Carney, Prime Minister Carney had won. I'm thinking to myself, okay, this is the establishment's last hurrah. And I believe that, that we have seen these major trends. I've been at least processing them as an anti-establishment move, you know, that we saw it in the States, you know, with Kamala Harris. I thought this was paralleling a lot of what I saw in the States, but I

wanted to wait and see. And so to me, as we go through the next several years, if they don't try and reconcile and have a more conciliatory tone, especially to Western Canada, and I don't think the Eastern pundits get that. If you watch CVC, you're only watching Eastern guys most of the time. They don't get, you know, you mentioned Alberta, where there was an overwhelming result, you know, in favor of change, in favor of the Conservative Party. Well, I'd say no wonder. I mean, it's cost the Alberta people. Their one gift has. has been, you know, energy has been oil and gas, etc. Clearly that the Liberal Party has opposed that and done a great deal of damage on that basis. Why would they sign up for more of that? Especially

for a country that has 1.5% of total global emissions. You know, a country where if you shut down the whole oil sands projects, you're talking about, you know, maybe 0.2 of a percent of global emissions. Like the talk about no cost benefit analysis has been done. I mean, there's so much around that, but clearly the liberals represented, come on, Mr. Carney, for a guy who's never run, showed a lot of the traits of politicians which I'm not comfortable with. One is, oh yeah, we'd allow pipelines, what we'll give Quebec a veto over it. Well, we'd already know what that ends up. We're going to give First Nations a veto. There's going to be no pipeline, you know, and that's, if I'm in Alberta, I'm thinking, and I'm in Canada saying the same thing.

We can't afford this anymore. We can't afford to put in green policies with no cost benefit analysis. And I'll just, Sean, I know I can go on, probably wondering, do I ever take a breath? I haven't in three years. I've still, no. But you had the parliamentary budget office, make it very clear. We have never done a cost benefit analysis on any green policy. Well, there is a cost.

You know, there is a, you know, so what did we get for? And so I'm not surprised people in Alberta and other parts of the West. Saskatchewan is pretty strong. Manitoba was a bit of a mix, but I'm not surprised at that. You know, that, and I think that's still under, if I watch the CBC, which I don't regularly, like the rest of Canadians, I don't watch CBC English language television. But if I did, and when I do, I can't believe they're all Eastern residences, and I don't think they're sensitive to how important that issue is. And that that's the kind of thing that

going back to what you said earlier about what would further strain the unity of our country. That's the issue that I would come up with right now. And there's more stuff on the horizon, but that's the issue I'd come up with. That this is a very important economic issue, obviously more so to Alberta and Eastern Canada doesn't get it. Well, I'm going to tell you this right now. You don't have to keep apologizing for talking too long. One of the reasons I wanted you on is I know myself and others find your insights because you've been, you know, you've been in this world for a long time talking to brilliant people looking at the economy and how things are going to be impacted and everything else. And when I jump to Carney, okay, Carney is the new official prime minister of Canada. What does that mean for the economy of Canada?

you know, there's a whole bunch of things in there. Last night I heard him say, you know, interprovincial trade is going to be free by, tax free by July 1st. That was one of the things he said. He also brought up, you know, climate change and green policy. I don't know if you use green policy exactly. Forgive me for paraphrasing, but, you know, I thought it was one of the things I hadn't heard him talk about in the entire election.

And last night in his speech, that came up. You know, there's other things like, well, actually, we'll just stick with that for a second. Then I can add more things in. Well, I think when you look at his budget projections, you know, $230 billion in new spending, you know, the deficit exploding, that kind of stuff. Well, there's no other way around that that they've got to get money. So I would expect taxes to go up. I would expect him with his national carbon tax makes us less competitive.

There's no doubt of that. And that's where I find it challenging because we're clear. You know, you can't come up with a statistic economically that was positive over the last 10 years, especially now. You have the Bank of Canada unprecedented to say we've got an emergency when it comes to capital GDP per capita. But the other one is capital investment per worker. You know, while the U.S. went up, we went down. How can our workers compete when we're spending literally half per worker on capital investment?

And that's what we're dealing with. That doesn't change when you raise taxes on business. You know, I mean, this is always the puzzle of the organized left. Like, don't you get it? Your workers are suffering. You know, when you have lower capital investment per worker, well, that's a guarantee of lack of job security, guarantee of less, you know, wage pressures on the downside.

You should be voting for things that improve our productivity. And that means capital investment. We need money to do those things. It's straightforward. Well, I'm puzzled. Mr. Carney would know that. Prime Minister, pardon me. Prime Minister Carney would know that. Well, how, but it shows me that his green agenda supersedes the economic one. And that's what we've been living for 10 years. And I think that is a legitimate concern.

I mean, we've had zero productivity growth since 2019. Wages go up 0.3 of a percent over that period of time. I mean, none of those stats are well for protecting our standards. protecting our standard living. And so he gives lots of mixed messages that way. And my worry is that as in the past, people have to understand that his commitment to climate change and policies around climate change,

whether he's the co-founder of net zero, you know, may produce policies that sort of a continuation of the erosion of the Canadian economic strength. He brought up comments about Americans in specific. I found it very, And continue to find it, I guess. I think the word that comes to mind is adversarial. Yes.

We're going to almost distance ourselves from our largest trading partner, our biggest ally. Well, keep in mind, keep in mind, that was the number one issue that the Liberal Party could run on. They were not going to run on their economic record. They weren't going to run on the results. And they're not going to run on the fact that two million people use a food. bank, 43% of Canadians under 40 borrow money for necessities. They're not standing up and saying, hey, guess what? We've got huge percentage of people, like 43% think they're living in poverty right now.

They get that long list. So they couldn't run on that. So the big variable that I think was at least not predicted was the Trump variable, the rally against Trump. And so that's what they ran on. I mean, we're going to be the 51st state. well, actually that would be against the Constitution of the United States. So it ain't happening.

You know, can you imagine the hoops they'd have to go through here? Not happening. It didn't stop them from talking about it because that was the most receptive issue. Including, by the way, I guess it was this past week, you've got Mark Carney talking about the March 28th phone call he had with President Trump. At the time, he literally said it went well and that President Trump respects Canada's sovereignty. Four weeks later, he remembered that Trump said he wanted to be 51st state. Well, I wasn't born last night. You know, I mean, that was just straight political

rhetoric. So that was the most, why did he say it? Because that resonated with the most Canadians. And that's why they played that card nonstop. That's why, I mean, one of the facts that people don't know is that CESIS warned about, warn the federal government, that China, wanted to attach Pierre Pahliav to Trump. That was one of Chinese psychop goals. So there's all of that kind of stuff, you know, that's gone on. So I mean, it's just they could have done something. I mean, who knows what was going on that way.

But that's why they talked about it. It wasn't going to happen. You know, it wasn't going to happen. So, but they talked about it because that's what resonated. There's no issue that was as close as the sort of anti- anti-Trump attraction. I'm really curious then and your thoughts. You bring up 43% of Canadians feel like they're living in poverty.

Correct. If I feel they're living in poverty, 43% of those under 40 borrow money for necessities. And there's all sorts of stats that just reconfirmed that general problem. So to me, that's not 10%. Like that's a huge number. And so one of the things, we'd talked out here is like, you know, the polls, everything, this, that,

or like, people vote when they go to the grocery store, or at least the thought process was, they go to the grocery store and they see over the course of whatever it is, nine years, two years, take your pick on the years. But every year you go to the grocery store, you get less and less for the money you spend. I don't think that is a shocker to anyone. And we thought the common person would vote for change because of that.

I would then, sorry, I would interject one thing there. You have to break it down by age group. So younger Canadians were more likely to face those pressures. Older Canadians weren't. They weren't in the housing market, for example. You know, as an example, you know, they, I mean, obviously there's going to be exceptions or percentages, but the majority of older Canadians weren't getting squeezed by affordable rent problems.

They weren't getting, they weren't entering the housing market. They were in the housing market. They benefited from the Bank of Canada's policies that basically said March 220, oh, we'll guarantee all five-year mortgages. Well, presto, explosion in the housing prices. They're not the ones who are impacted. So I think your observation is correct. I would just divide it into what age group we're talking about. I think the younger you are, the more impactful you are by the kind of policies that have been in place.

And by the way, the media has a real challenge, not the independent media, but the, you're let's call it the legacy media has a problem because again the percentage of people in the media who are in that second category and the more established financially category is much higher than the newbies so again they're more less sensitive to how important this was i thought i thought that wasn't the key issue but i knew it was for a younger demographic i don't funny where my brain goes i'm trying i get the age demographic i'm like wondering if at when I get older then, I'm just going to stop caring what the government does. And I'm just, because I'm like, I find it just like, okay.

So the grocery thing, the housing market, but then you walk around on the street. Like, I mean, and you see the drugs, you see the crime, you see all these things. All this is under the liberals. At some point, all these people would be impacted just the same as someone entering the housing market. No, there are certainly issues that do impact. But clearly we saw from the polls that, and this is totally anecdotal, but he ever noticed all the pictures of Mr. or Prime Minister Carney standing in front of his mobs, how much white hair? I mean, shit, I could have hidden in there. There's so much white hair in there. It wasn't the young people. And again, I think the housing market, and I said it repeatedly, think about this, immigration was not a topic in this election. They were not allowed to have that as a topic in the leaders debate. What has had a more profound impact on housing in the major urban centers like Toronto and Vancouver than temporary visas and the explosion in immigration?

That wasn't discussed. They didn't bring it up because that's another bad liberal issue. I couldn't believe how successful. And I'm not just jumping on the mainstream media. There's lots of good people there. But boy, the fact that that was not a major topic of conversation when it manifested in so many ways that do. impact us. For example, healthcare. You know, I mean, we don't have the social infrastructure to handle 2.3 million people coming in and over just a couple of years. And keep in mind, we have no

system in place to this day that we know if you got a temporary visa that you left when it expired. We have no system in place for that. You know, that does an accurate count. We didn't know how many were coming into the country on temporary visas. But we did know it put added upward pressure on rents, you know, pressure on affordability and housing. There's other issues, but we never discussed it in the election. You've been at this a long time. I don't mean to date you, but you're 75? I voted for Abraham Lincoln. No, John A. McDonald and I were buddies. No, I'm 73. 73. Well, hey, there you go. 73. Okay. So the only reason I bring it up is because I look at your wealth of information, right? Like you're sitting there. You've been staring at this game.

for a long time. I've been staring at politics for, I keep reiterating this to the audience. You know, I'm, you know, the hockey player. I love hockey. When I first started on the podcast, I was fortunate enough to interview people like Ron McLean and Don Cherry and on and on. And I was just like, you know, I love the game of hockey. I think there's so many things about it that are just so wonderful to, honestly to kids, teaching them a lot of different valuable lessons. and in the culture of hockey is just a really beautiful thing. But when I step into politics, you know, in my four years, you're just learning how this culture is and how the game is played

and how they do certain things. You know, when you talk about immigration, not being one of the things, were you surprised by that or you're like, no, like, listen, every election has its taboo subjects, if you will, that they're just not going to broach in the election debate or in the conversations because it, for some reason, It's a hot topic and we're just going to steer away from that one. Yeah, I was appalled.

That's the right word for me. I was appalled. It wasn't because if you looked at different variables or different policies that had the most profound impact on Canadians, immigration would be in the short list for the most important thing. And yet it wasn't discussed. And I think there's a ton of questions about why. Why wouldn't that be front and center,

given that we already knew that housing, I mean, the housing discussion, and I appreciate this. Wasn't there the famous, I think it was Kim Campbell who said elections are no place to discuss issues. I think she did years and years ago. But when are they a place? Where is economics discussed? And there's exceptions, I know, but in the broad base. I found the housing discussion almost laughable. You know, I found the response to the Trump tariffs.

Where is the push to have more depth to a way? all of these things. But the Trump tariffs, President Trump, and our reaction or response to them certainly suck the oxygen out of the room for a lot of subjects. But I think there's no excuse not to have talked to immigration. Would you say then this

election cycle was different than anything you've witnessed in the past? I guess I'm just, once again, I come back to it. You've looked at a lot of different elections. You've seen a lot of different leaders come through in your time. And forgive me, I just

In my brain, I hear off the start that you've been into politics for a very long time. And so I go, okay, so you've been paying attention to this for a while. Is this election an anomaly on how they framed Trump, the Americans, bad orange, you know, the orange guy bad. And that's all we're going to talk about. We're not going to talk about all the issues we have because if we did, as you pointed out, you know, they can't run on anything. Everything's falling apart. So is this, sorry. No, it's that combination is that they couldn't run on.

those things. Who is happiest that we kept talking about Trump and tariffs? So it's got to be the Liberal Party. They've been in power for 10 years. And no, I can never remember a time where I think you can make a pretty good argument that Trump was the key variable. There are several things that are involved here, but really without Trump, I think you get a different election result. And I can never remember that where an external factor and not a surprise it would be out of the US because of course our major trading partner, etc. No, I can't think of it. time when that played such a prominent role in this entire election and how many times you know I just saw one of the more recent liberal posts on the liberal party was they were saying look how few

times Pollyov talked about Trump that's outrageous it was just so obvious playing to people's emotions playing to people's fears and Donald Trump certainly gave plenty of ammo that I don't know liberals or Conservatives or NDP would support the tariff approach that Trump's taken. But it's too bad that we haven't, forget the election for a second. We didn't debate what our response should be. You weren't allowed to debate our response. And I mean, sarcasm gripped me when I think we're going to stand up to Trump. I know how we'll make Canadians pay 20 million, 20 billion more in tariffs.

That'll really show them. Canadians, because that's a retaliatory tariff. Well, the only two countries put on in temporary tariffs, China and Canada. That should have at least begged the conversation, is all I'm saying, that we should have brought that out into the open. And there are several issues that weren't really allowed to be talked about. That was one. I would say supply management was another.

You know, it should have had a far more prominent role. And who does that hurt? The poor Canadians we were talking about earlier. Who can least afford? One of my messages always is, when you put in a bad policy, who can least afford it? lower income Canadians and they're the ones suffering. They're the new 2 million people a month visiting a food bank. 12% increase in homelessness.

No, that wasn't an issue. You mentioned housing is laughable, the conversation on that. If I could just open that up a bit more, what in your mind is laughable about it and what do you think needed to get discussed? Okay, so the biggest contributor to housing costs across the Canada, it'll be some level of government, whether it's municipal development fees, people listening out from British Columbia understand there's something called the property purchase tax. I'm going to punish you for buying that condo. We'll add $25,000 to it. We know that, for example, when the permit delays come, remember, I've bought the property. I can't get the permit for a year, but I'm paying the

mortgage on that bought property. So that adds to the costs. So I thought government's feigning big concern about affordability was always a farce. It was just dishonest. They are the problem. And again, all three levels of government are playing a part in this particular election. The liberals, keep in mind, we have Justin Trudeau, and I'm going off the top of my head, was early August, 2003 saying housing is not a federal responsibility. After promising to solve it, by the way, several times. Then he says, it's not a federal responsibility. They looked at the polls after that. And wow, there was a blowback. So all of a sudden, they started to have these weekly housing announcements.

But amongst those announcements of their prominent claim that we're going to build four million houses by 2030. Well, an internal memo of the CMHC showed that they knew that was not going to happen. And they kept on talking about it. So we get to this actual election period. We've got a very similar promise. Prime Minister Carney says, off the top of my head, 3.9 million new homes. They're the tiny little box kind of homes. You can't find anyone in the development business who thinks that's going to happen.

Try and find someone who think it's a good thing, you know, because why you will have this sort of early explosion and then back off. But where's the market going to come anyways? I mean, you've got housing starts dropped across the country, especially Toronto. Housing purchases dropped. I mean, it's different in Alberta. We got more strength in Calgary and even somewhat Edmonton, but Vancouver. you know, Toronto, the main centers.

It's just nonsense. I mean, it's not happening. And my thing is they know it's not happening. And they still say it regularly. Because they, you know, the choice is always, do they not have a clue or do they think we don't have a clue? And in this case, definitely, and there's a couple of other very stark examples, they think that we don't have a clue to know that that's nonsense, what they're peddling. It's not going to happen.

What are those stark examples are you referring to? Shockingly, and this is something that, you know, when Justin Trudeau was Prime Minister, I never knew if he knew. Honestly, I did say, does he have a clue? You know, and well, he showed no sign of any, not even elementary sophistication, not even elementary. I'm not just jumping on him, but I've got lots of examples where he clearly didn't. So in this case, I'm assuming that being a former central banker, that Prime Minister Carney does know it's nonsense. So when he stood up and said, we're going to do a made in Canada auto sector. That is laughable.

Again, you won't find anybody who understands that sector to say that's true. Oh, really, we're going to start manufacturing the nuts, the bolts, the every up to 3,000 parts in a car. We're going to manufacture that here, are we? And the raw materials are coming here? Absolute nonsense. My complaint was he knew that was. He know that's not happening.

You know, it's just ridiculous. You know, how many years would that take to reconfigure and re- or establish a supply chain that could manufacture a car that's totally Canadian made. But that was the implication there. And that's not possible. But my complaint is he knows that's not possible. You never had somebody with any sophistication go, hey, we got a good idea that you could do. No one's saying that. You know, and there's other examples like, you look when Australia tried that, it was a disaster. We have this sort of integrated supply chain for a reason. You know, Was it Ricardo who said that years ago?

Some, you know, it's sort of my example always, should we grow our own bananas so we can have a made in Canada grocery store? You know, can you imagine the cost? You know, so you do these trading relationships. He's sort of doing the same thing that President Trump is, you know, when he says that. You know, that somehow the U.S. can do without all of these other, you know, supply chain countries. Well, they can't. And they're going to pay a lot more.

But it's the same thing when you suggest we could do it with automobiles. We can't. One of the things that, you know, I got to give a shout out to Chris Sim. She's been a guest on your show. And I have a ton of time for Chris. She's been on lots. And, you know, she talked about, you know, the CTF has really, you know, I just got to sit down with Franco and her, Franco Terzano, sorry, last week.

and they were talking about the carbon tax, right? They put it down to zero, but it's not gone. And then they started talking about the industrial carbon tax. And you saw Pierre bring it up in the debate and then they attack wall. Nobody would get to the like, what is the industrial carbon tax? What is that going to cost? And how will people feel that? Curious, have you had time to sink your teeth into that or your thoughts on what an industrial carbon tax looks like on how that plays out

for Canadian society? Yeah, I know what it is, but they haven't given us the details. And one of the best economists in our country is Jack Mince, University of Calgary. Wonderful work. He just says this is going to be so confusing, so expensive. Stephen Gordon, economist LaValle says one thing we can guarantee prices are going up. That is going to be more expensive, less effective than the carbon tax that they've at least brought down to zero at this point.

We'll see if they eliminate it. think about this. If we're going to add that tax and we're competing with the U.S., you know, which is a normal competitor for us, and they're lowering regulation and lowering business taxes, that's the aspect that we should be focusing on. This, the whole Trump tariff thing, which I think is ignorance on his part about what's going to happen, but it doesn't matter. If we're competing and you have a choice, gee, the U.S. market and it's cheaper to manufacture there, and my taxes and regulatory burden are going down while Canada is adding, that just doesn't make any sense. And yet they have not acknowledged that in the least.

And that's why Canada's fared so poorly in capital investment. You know, we know that capital investment per worker, capital investment overall has been declining. Well, we're just not, it's not tough to understand. We're not attractive as a place to do it. In fact, what worries me is the number one reason for a major manufacturer, to be here is our access to the US market. You know, I mean, they're not really through, you know, they're not doing backflips about a 41 million people in Canada being potential consumers. No, they're looking at the US, the most, uh, richest best consumer market in the world.

And so boy, it's that combination. We can't do a national carbon tax. It will cost businesses more, increased regulation, be cumbersome, uh, especially while the US is reducing regulatory burden, the cost of regulation and the cost of doing business taxation-wise. So that's not a good thing. You know, I'd be curious to the circles you're in talking to different business people. I know since 2021 there's been a ton of people exit. I'm sure Canada, but in my conversations with Alberta, I've seen it with my own eyes and ears,

or heard it with my own ears, I guess, the amount of businesses that I've left. I'm just done with this. And then there was a secondary group that started to, over the last four years, start to open up operations in the states. And I know of some interesting conversations that have basically been put forth here in Alberta. Like, you know, if it doesn't go the right way in the next couple of years, we have our exit strategy and we're already set up to just, you know, is it today where we sit today or is it six months from now?

But they're already in the process of going to that attractive market. market and they look at Carney and what the liberals have wreaked havoc on on Canada for you know a decade and more to come and are walking out the door are is the same thing in your conversations or is that specific to Alberta especially no especially in the resource sector and that mean mining mining's included in that that's a huge issue I look out in British Columbia I mean and that's important the provincial regulatory environment taxation environment plays a part two. Well, in British Columbia, it's very unattractive, especially if you're in the resource sector. And our numbers in British Columbia,

the numbers are terrible, record deficit, you know, and combined with that kind of capital exodus. The other one, can I add to that as young people exodus? Now, this is only anecdotal, but I have two sons in their 30s, both working in an aspect of the financial business. And, you know, as an old father, you do, you go, hey, what's Seamus up to this week? Or what, What's, you know, so and so. I haven't seen him in years. I can't believe the number of them when they're working out of the country.

I have one son working out of the country. He's never coming back. You can't afford that brain drain, but you can understand it. You can pick lots of locations in the states where the housing is less expensive. And that's a real key component again. There's not a state in the U.S.

for the higher income tax level that is not more attractive than our best. Alberta is the best here, but more attractive. I mean, think about it. out in British Columbia where 54 cents of those marginal dollars, you get to keep 46 and the government takes 54. That's part of the competitive landscape. And I think those are the things that are serious. So you're not growing the economy unless we reverse

the capital investment outflow. There's no way of doing it. And I think that would be my key policy assessment. When I looked at whatever the new liberal government chooses to do, let's have a look at it and say, what do you think impact will be? on capital investment. Will it come to Canada or is a repel? Because I think you're absolutely right that you've got businesses saying they now have an exit strategy, you know,

and think of how difficult we've had it to compete. And we discounted our labor by 30% with a 70 cent dollar. And we still couldn't compete. Well, there should be a big red flashing sign, which, by the way, the Bank of Canada did say it was an emergency. Capital investment per capita there wasn't an emergency. So, yeah. I'm going to. I'm not sure. I mean, you can imagine, let's invite Mike to a party. We'll all get a downer. Well, I find, no, I find this, um, listen, if you're living in Canada right now, we just elected the liberals again. I don't think you can be a downer at this point. It's like, it's playing, you know, you're watching this going, I can't believe, you know, 2019, I couldn't

believe it. 20, 21, I was angry. Now I'm like, okay, This is the way that part of Canada wants to go. I'm an eternal optimist, right? And at times, you know, does that help or hinder me? I don't know. I just, I'm an eternal optimist. And I wonder, from your brain, you talk about the young people even. You're not the only one noticing that.

Yeah. And I go, what would it take to bring the young people back from, and have an influx? And is, you know, like you're saying, seeing the way our country's going. You know, you go, oh, no, it can change in two months. Well, I guess obviously another election, but you get the point. Like, it can actually change real fast.

Or are you like, no, the trajectory we're on, it would take something cataclysmic to start bringing back these people. Well, I think, again, people make it the same way. It's not very complicated. I mean, people want opportunities. We all want opportunities. And I think, again, the employment opportunities in some areas, especially again when you start looking at high skill level, like technology, for example, like when you can go to the states and keep a significant portion more of your income than you could if you stayed in Canada, that plays a part. If you can take that income and buy a home where you can't afford to do that in our major centers, especially Vancouver, especially Toronto, but it's spread to Hamilton.

and it spread to Calgary now. You know, obviously weather plays apart. So there's a lot of variables. But when you start with the lack of our reduced opportunity, if you stay in Canada, and higher tax burden, social things like housing, I think we're up against it. And I think that's what we're actually seeing.

You know, a lot of people, I don't know, draw a comparison or say, you know, if we keep on this trajectory, we could become Argentina or that train of thinking. You don't think so? I've said, you know, there's been a lot of talk about whether the level of debt is sustainable. And I say, well, that's actually the wrong question. You should be asking, what are the implications of it?

And what we've said, we've been living the implications. We're living them because, I mean, you know, for example, the purchasing power of the currency. That's the key. That's how I think it manifests. It's not some big fire sale that we go out of business, you know, as a country. You know, it just means more and more government revenue goes to sustain it, you know, in terms of interest. Where are they going to get that revenue from? And this is what I'm saying.

It doesn't matter what party you're in. You can't take on the level of debt. Now, in this case, we know the liberals have won. So we can't take on the level of debt. They're anticipating, you know, telling us over the next four years with an economy that's stagnating when it comes to productivity. It just can't do it. You know, that is where you run into problems. So what are they going to do?

They'll need money. The Bank of Canada will cooperate. They'll create the money, you know, so we can purchase the bonds. Well, your currency is worth less. And that's what people are really reacting to and they say, I can't afford it anymore. And that's what scares me, by the way, when they talk even about the capital gains increases. Or in the last, in this election, the NDP had a wealth tax. Well, if you're not adjust, first of all, there's a whole debate around that because it's been a failure in Europe when they've done a wealth tax.

But what about am I really ahead if I buy a house for 400 or 500,000 in the year 2000 and I'm selling it? I'm just picking a number for 600,000 now. I'm not ahead. That's the inflation impact of it. I can't buy anything more. It didn't go up. It just, you know, it rose with inflation. So I think that's the biggest challenge.

I don't have trust. I don't believe the government's going to bail me out. So you've got to personally protect yourself about the erosion of the purchasing power of the currency. Okay. Yeah, I want to, I'm glad you brought that up. Okay, so you're sitting there, you say you've got to personally protect yourself. And what you can see coming, now we know Carney's going to be in. And we know he's going to run a giant deficit. Those two things are correct, right? No arguing there. Absolutely. So would you, you if you're trying to personally protect yourself from what is coming in Canada, you know, not on the table is going to the states or wherever else, you're going to be here.

Yeah. What are some things people could do or look into or wherever you want to go with that, that you're like, well, you should be, you should be looking into these things because as they print more money to keep up because you're like, they're going to run a deficit. Where are they going to get that from? Well, they could raise taxes. They've got a whole bunch of different thoughts there. is one and two they could print it which is going to deval your currency and you know so there you know

there's some different avenues to go there where does your brain go if you're talking to individuals of hey you should you should think about this this this well this is going back several years i thought the one guarantee you know can you predict the future i said i can predict one of the future things and that is government will debase the value of your currency you know and and believe me i can really give everyone a headache. If I go on about that, I'll just remind them that not a single paper currency in the history of the world has survived. Why? Because governments can't resist it. When I hear Donald Trump saying, I'm going to interfere with the Federal Reserve and fire Jerome Powell, I go, good, because that's the recipe, how you get these outrageous levels of inflation that you see

in different countries, interfere with the central bank. But I think that's the most obvious trend going forward it's been obvious you know if you look over the asset prices in the last 10 to 15 20 and much longer you know years you know old people oh you i bought my first house for 27 000 you know and i go and none of those boards have changed but somehow the money doesn't buy as much so now it's 575 000 for the same house yeah that's the story that people are experiencing but have to understand so i'm protecting myself from the currency i'm protecting by buying things like gold. And I'm not Johnny come lately. Anyone listening to Money Talks. In fact, I used to get things from financial advisors. Why do you always talk about gold?

Well, this is why. And obviously it's worked out. Now, that doesn't mean it doesn't correct short term, which I would bet it would, but I'm buying on dips. That's one example. I like real estate except for the government does too. And it makes me nervous to the degree the government does. Again, Alberta has a different situation than you look at in Ontario, you look at in British Columbia, where the government is treated housing as a cash cow. In fact, one of the things will be very interesting to see under the Carney government is as things get a little more stressful financially for the country, will they do one of two things with your house? One, you can talk about the primary residence exemption, you know, and keep in mind it's already been a, It's always been part of the Green Party platforms already had it, but where they say, yes, it's tax-free if you sell your primary residence up to $500,000. You know, above that, we're going to tax it.

So something like that. But there's another side they can do is just simply, you know, a wealth tax would tax the equity in your home. I'm just saying those things are not unreasonable. The government commissioned two separate studies on it. Justin Trudeau met with the head of a group called Generation Squeeze, which is big time in favor of that, you know, within the last two years. So they've looked at it, that's for sure, whether they implement, I'm not sure.

But so that's why I'm not as keen on housing because government's been very interested. In British Columbia, you have a speculation tax. What that only means is that you, if you own a piece of property in most heavily, every populated area, it can't be empty for more than six months without incurring a new tax.

City of Vancouver has what's called an empty homes tax. There's just so easy to start listing off all the new taxes that have been attached to real estate. They haven't been able to do that with Bitcoin, for example, and haven't been able to do that with gold, you know, or haven't yet, you know, done it with gold. So again, back to the currency, you know, gold's performed. To me, it's a giant confidence game. As confidence leaves the system, that's when gold goes. It's not inflation. You know, people say, well, gold goes up with inflation, I can come up with 500 examples where it didn't. But gold definitely goes up when you start losing confidence in the banking system, confidence in the government, and isn't that what

we're seeing right now? So who's buying gold, Central Bank of China? Why? They do not have confidence in the international monetary system, especially in terms vis-a-vis the US treasuries. I'll trade my treasuries and buy gold instead. That kind of thing. It's... When you talk gold, I was just looking at the price today, Canadian. 46 24. I might be off as, you know, as people are listening this,

but you get the general vicinity, all time highs. Like, I agree with you. And so then I just add into it. It's like, well, do we think confidence under Kearney

is going to go. Yes. Up or down? That's the question, though. I mean, that's the question I wish our legacy media commentary it would start understanding.

That's the question. So, like, for example, you talked about businesses maybe at least having an exit strategy. Believe me, if we do things that make it more difficult to do business in terms of cost of regulation and taxation, that drops their confidence. And they're already shaky. That's what you just described. They're shaky now. Do they trust the government? Does the public trust the government?

You know, whatever region. I mean, again, each province controls their medical citizens. system. But several provinces have had a horrible time with closure of emergency rooms. As an example, you know, they've, we know that across the country, you know, somewhere in the neighborhood of 20% of Canadians do not have a family doctor. So confidence in that aspect of the system is eroding. And it's just when does it manifest at the ballot box? Donald Trump was created by that thought. He didn't create it. He's the byproduct of that lack of confidence in government. I would doubt there's many voters who voted for President Trump who

have confidence in government, who want to see it expanded. I think that's the dominant trend as we go through the next shorter than I thought, I think the next five to eight years. We're going to see more and more about that. So I'm with you. I look at whatever actions the government takes, does that increase my confidence level or decrease in the government's ability to deliver? And let's face it they didn't run on that record for a good reason because it has not been able to deliver in the major issues sorry i can go on and on because i think this is the key question i'll just give you one more do you think confidence media were lower than it was 10 years ago oh it's it's in the toilet in the toilet and they're another part of the establishment i would say the same thing about

universities you know that the trust in the university has been declined whether they want to acknowledge it or not. If I was a Jewish student at a major Canadian university, I sure have less confidence, or a Jewish Canadian, for example, that the government's going to protect me. They've done nothing, you know, and that's to me was another key issue that didn't get near enough attention. I mean, it's changed the character of our country, but back to our point, it reduced confidence in what the government's doing. Well, you know, last night on the election coverage that we had, we had at midnight, Mountain Standard, we had just shy of 89,000 people watching simultaneously. And, you know, when we were watching other networks, we were, you know, by all accounts from what we could see somewhere in the vicinity of number two.

And the only person that, or only person, only group ahead of us was the CBC. And we chuckle about that because you're talking about what's the confidence in media. It's like, well, we don't have 89,000 people watching us or 80, you know, The turnout of people tuning in was well over that. It was 88,000 people watching simultaneously. One of the channels, we had over 100,000 people come in and out through the first 12 hours, right? We were looking at it last night and we morning hours, I guess. And so you go media confidence, I don't see how that comes back.

I just don't see it. is that that's going down simultaneously you know like one of the things i i heard at a carney last night was this interprovincial trade by july first he's going to do away with it i would think to me i i don't care where he's stand on carney that's a good thing right like i mean getting rid of that okay so confidence goes gets a small bump but then everything else we've talked about for the last hour i don't hear him addressing any of it and and i guess i want to ask because where I said, I own a house. And I feel like a huge number of Canadians,

you probably know the statistics, own a house. And this home equity tax or different versions of that. I heard last night on the live stream, if he does something like that, the economy will go right in the toilet. Would you agree with that? Or are you like,

it's just another little thing that they just picking away at the confidence and the capital of the individual? I go more on the latter about the individual because does that determine whether I'm going to develop something? There's so many other variables in my way to begin with. You know, I wasn't going to anyways. And that is a big problem for housing is, you know, what's really interesting, I read something, not to digress from what you're asking, but I read something about the comment on the people for affordable housing Canada, support the Carney plan. I said, well, you might want to ask a developer. You know, you're like not an advocate.

Of course, they're in favor of anything that, you know, whatever their goal is. But it's the developers you need to talk to. I mean, academics have lots to add to it. But still, the rubber hits the road when a developer says, no, this is what's important me and I'm not doing it. You know, and right now the weak housing market will discourage more development. Why do I want more product I can't sell in the first place? You know, so I would think it just sort of piles on to that challenge.

And the perception too, though. I mean, I'm not sure if there's too many in the business community who perceive of a Mark Carney government as positive for business. I would bet most of them they're sitting there going as how negative will it be for business. And again, will the climate agenda supersede business concerns? Because that's what we've been doing for 10 years. And again, you may like that and you may not like it. But the facts are right there. The stats are right there with them.

I just don't think they've got a lot of work to do as you asked about the legacy media until the legacy media stands up and goes this is where we blew it this is what I wish we had done differently you know it's acknowledge the problem before you can move forward and again but the liberals just got away with not doing that oh there was the odd statement but it was you know what we've been a disaster for 10 years if economics was your and finance was your number one issue we haven't delivered you know I think you have to acknowledge the problem first. I think the media has a real problem. But sorry, in saying that, Sean, I can look at people like you. You are also in the media. It's just changed. You know, you're not in the mainstream media. I look at the brilliant work done by people like Terry Glaven, you know,

who does put articles in the National Post. I look at, you know, without Sam Cooper, we certainly wouldn't understand both the federal and China. And the amazing increase in infiltration. I'm sorry, I'm not getting everybody off the top of my head. I had a chance to interview Jonathan Manthorpe. He was just a fabulous interview, not in the mainstream anymore. So a lot of great people have gravitated to Substack, for example.

And, you know, I've subscribed to many of them because it's good work. So there's some good people and also in the mainstream. Robert Frives, Stephen Chase have done some good stuff, you know, and I think valuable stuff. But as a whole, there's still lots of good people in the media. but so many of them have gravitated outside the so-called legacy and mainstream into platforms like you're doing here, like the podcast platform, and of course, substack, you know, which has exploded. I guess before I, I'll give you, I'll give you an option for the last question here.

We can go back into gold and silver. I'm very curious, you know, like, wasn't that long ago, you know, like, you know, like, I don't know what the price was. Three grand Canadian, using Canadian figures again. And now, you know, I go back to, to the 4,600.

Or the censorship. As an independent media guy, I look at, I just, I look at what we do in having these conversations. And under Carney, he terrifies me of,

of clamping down, of, you know, like not only the war on Musk, sorry, Trump, but the war on Elon Musk owning X and, you know, and talking about quieting down or limiting access or whatever term you want to put on there. I'll give you final say. If you wanted to go down that road or gold and silver, whichever way you want to go, Michael. I'm going to go both very quickly.

In gold, decide if you're long term or short term. I have long term money in gold and I'm not moving in and out of it because I have full confidence they're going to erode the purchasing power of my currency. Silver's got a more industrial component, so it moves slower. You know, in the same thing, though, as I've been a big uranium fan, you know, done very well with that. I like Alberta oil and gas because it's at a discount, because over time, I think will be rewarded. Silver is slower, but again, real key, what's your timeframe? What portion of your portfolio it is? So answer those questions, you know, and, you know, like for example, I think for my trading, not trading, but sort of the growth oriented slash trading,

I'm looking for a correction in gold. I think it's gone parabolic. Probability is, and I don't like the risk, it'll come down. That'll provide another buying opportunity, you know, within it, but my core, I don't change. Censorship, I think, should have been, it should be on everyone's mind. It's the foundation of democracy. And it's not just sort of a theoretical thing. They have done it. Bill C-10, Bill C-36, Bill C-60, you know, whatever it was. The memorandum 103, I think it was. But the list is, Prime Minister Carney is part of that group, that attitude that says they want censorship of digital,

especially social media, despite the fact that I could make a good case that government is the biggest purveyor of false information. You know, but they want, look what's happened in the UK. It's unbelievable to the degree it's more already and other countries. So no one should underestimate the desire that they have to control speech. And that comes back to a more fundamental attitude they have is that they're right. They're not welcoming questions. Assign me a kind of in quotes hot topic where they welcomed challenges.

And that's really limiting. You know, freedom is based on free speech, but so is progress. You know, I mean, it's questioning the status quo that moves us forward. And there's too many subjects out of bounds, but they are committed to, to controlling the digital space. And that should scare Canadians. Like literally, I'm proud to say, Sean, I've been canceled, I think five times now. Canceled?

Well, you know, well, one cancel, but suspended. You know, like all of a sudden my Facebook account accounts down. Of course, they don't give you an expectation. You know, so I've had, I'm just saying it's that. That's honestly, my side. That's where I come from, that's almost standard operating procedure. If you haven't been canceled, you know, it's just like, all I'm trying to do is talk to people. You can love or hate what they say.

But that right there puts you into rough waters, right? And, and, but when I look at you, I go, if that isn't the state of Canada right there, that Michael Campbell's had things shut down, that, that's shot. That actually shocks me. That might be my Michael Campbell shocking stat of the week. Yeah. Well, and again, all of it was for questions. All of it was for questioning. Never, I understand the limits of my knowledge.

So I wasn't in a position to question, not to question, to make statements about approach to COVID, for example. But I was in a position to ask questions about it. You know, that's just one example. They've been successful in not having a conversation about climate change. and the approaches that were taking to it. You know, as I said earlier, no cost-benefit analysis, not the way I'd go about things.

There's so many subjects that are, in quotes, you know, off limits in so much of the media. Well, Alberta Premier Daniel Smith experienced that directly and handed in her resignation letter to the Chorus Network saying there's too many no-fly zones. Well, she said, so I'm going to give you my notice. Well, she didn't last the week. You know, I mean, those are not. positive things. And yeah, so I think we should not underestimate the degree that free speech is on the line, that it was on the line in this election, whether people was a pivotal issue for people or not.

It was definitely, Mark Carney said he's going to continue that approach. They've tried it several times through legislation and they haven't worked yet, but he said he's going to continue. I think free speech can be top of mind for people. Yeah, to me, it was one of the, you know, you talk about some of the I keep saying taboo subjects that you weren't talked about. The free speech one was one that I was listening intently because of what I do and where I go and the conversations I have into the uncomfortable conversations, right? Like there's times where I'm sitting here and I'm like, oh, this one's going to get me in hot water. But people want to talk. And I want to ask questions.

I think that's what this is about. And if you're going to help people and help yourself, you need to ask questions. You need to look at things and discern the information and try and then move. forward the best possible way you can. Yeah, challenge yourself that way. It's really interesting. What a difference compared to financial analysis, you know, investment analysis. First thing I do is look for where are wrong. You know, what am I missing? I search out the alternative opinions in case I miss something. Why? Because it's going to cost me money. You know, and so as an approach, let me, I know we're finished. So I just want to give one more thing. I was disappointed for another

time. I can't believe that Chinese interference in our election for the last 10 years and longer was not an election issue. How is it? And on this side, we have more time. We always have more time, Michael. I'm just being very conscious of the time frame we said at the start. So forgive me for if we got to go, I'll throw it back in your court now. How is it that you can have election interference? It doesn't get talked about. Nobody knows who the MPs are. We have a full-on election. I'm like, forgive me, once again, I'll bring it up. I've been staring at this for four years. I'm like, is this the way politics is? Like, how is it that that isn't like talked about it by anyone? Especially front and center. You know, front and center. We know the Chinese

work department front. I'm just slipping in mind right now. I know them well. But they're the front for the communist party of China. When they know we're controlling. They're controlling. the rioting in Markham, Ontario. They're controlling riding in Richmond, BC. You know, it's not small-time stuff, and we've been warned about it. So I was shocked about that, and my last one about the election, I can't believe that the rise, the incredible rise in anti-Semitism wasn't an issue. I mean, it changed the character of our country.

We had 19 liberal MPs sign onto something called vote-Palestine.ca, that amongst other tenants, that said, we insist on the withdrawal from Palestine immediately, from Gaza immediately, but no mention of Hamas, no mention of hostages. They wanted us to give more money to UN for the UN, despite the fact that there has been convictions of participating in October 7th. You know, it's things like that. I just think that that changed the character of Canada, and we should have at least shown the respect to talking about it. It's a very different, nothing shocked me more than the rise of anti-Semitism. I had no idea it was like this rampant in our country.

It made sense. Given they're out of control and that wasn't just my words. Prime Minister Trudeau said out of control immigration system and DISA and Mark Carney has alluded to the same thing. So yeah, I just wish that it has been talked about. So I'm sorry, Sean. No, no, no, don't apologize. I appreciate you giving me some time today.

I hope we yet to do it again. I've been, I got to give a shout to Chris Sims yet again. again because I've been trying to get through to have you on because, you know, one of the things on this side is, is like I say, I got three older brothers. We, we share around a ton of your content when you have on different people talking on specifically the economy and, because there's a lot of great insights in what you do. And then just, you know, I stare at you and I, I see guys been in this for a very long time, talking to very brilliant people as an understanding of the trends and where it leads us.

And, you know, is it, can you predict the future? Of course, you know, everyone should be cautious of anyone who says, I know exactly what's going to happen. Sure. But certainly, you give in, you fill in parts of the puzzle. And that allows people to make more informed decisions, if you would. And I'm just glad I finally got to have you on. And hopefully look forward to the next time.

Either way, Michael, thanks for hopping on today. My pleasure. Thanks, Sean. Appreciate your time.