Shaun Newman Podcast - #850 Brother's Roundtable

Episode Date: May 15, 2025

The boys are back, but this time we have Chris King and Cam Grabowski in to discuss the NHL Playoffs. Lots on the Leafs, Oilers and some NBA talk. Get your voice heard: Text Shaun 587-217-8500Silver Gold Bull Links:Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/Email: [e-mail] Grahame: [phone]Bow Valley Credit UnionWebsite: www.BowValleycu.comEmail: [e-mail] Use the code “SNP” on all ordersProphet River Links:Website: store.prophetriver.com/Email: [e-mail]

All right, welcome to the Brothers Roundtable. Welcome to the podcast, folks. We're missing two brothers. They're off on a work trip. And so... Missing the lesser two. That's right. And so we got a couple...

Well, we got a returning face in Chris King back for another week. Sorry, folks. Still unable to talk about the lawsuit. And then we got a new one, Cam Krabowski. Cam, thanks for hopping in. Thanks for having me here. Thanks, guys. Yeah.

So this is going to be a little interesting. Cam, tell the people who you are. Because you've never been on the podcast. podcast before. Everybody else has been. Kinger, of course, a while back, and then everybody knows the story if they're new. But your new face to the air, a couple of minutes. Yeah, no, just moved here in 2003. I'm a local business owner. I had a couple of businesses here in town, and right now I'm running sign advantage in the city, helping businesses advertise and market their goods. And for people who attended the Cornerstone Forum, I got to give a shout

out to Cam. He built the Cornerstone Forum signs that you would have saw walking. into the building. So that's correct. They looked pretty fantastic this past weekend. Okay. A, let's start here, shall we? This is why Kinger's back to get his silver coin. Except.

Oh, no, who got it? Oh, it wasn't Kinger. I don't think I did. No, it would be this guy. The hosts got the silver coin. It wasn't a great week on predictions. Harley and I both went three for five, and I won the over under. When you said two for five, I thought for sure I went O for.

five because I was watching the games. I'm like, I got none of this. I actually thought when all the games started playing out, I thought King was going to be five for five because you went off the board all the time. And then I started out of my, oh no, you got that wrong. Oh, and you got that wrong. Never mind. Still off the board. Still off the board is what happened. Um, okay, well, we'll get into, um, uh, at the end of the show, we'll get into the, I assume the three game, uh, the two, game six is coming up, right? No, one game five, one game five, two game six. As Apologies. Right. But before we get there, let's, let's start last night. Oilers, uh, uh, finish off the Vegas Golden Knights.

Do you want to start with Emmington? You want to start with Toronto. Okay, we could serve Toronto. Let's start with Toronto. I like the Toronto. Like, Emmington's kind of like, yeah, yeah, they made it again. No big deal. Toronto, though.

It is a big deal. It is a big thing. I think Eminton games for sure. Yeah, I think Emmetton getting is a big deal. But regardless. No, it is. Okay, Toronto walks in, they're up to O. They lose two in Vegas.

You're thinking, okay, you come back home. Two to Florida. So what did I say? Vegas. You just have Vegas. I guess like a line. Florida. Okay.

Anyways, so then you come back home and you lay an absolute just, that was a rough game. So at the start of the, at the end of last round, Jay was talking up Toronto and like, oh, I was talking up Toronto.

They've been playing really well. They had looked good. No, no. Yeah, they always look good is the problem. Anyhow, the point I made after the first series is I didn't think, like Ottawa's not the same team as what a Florida is.

Right. And Toronto really has to determine what they're going to be now, because they're playing a team where they can't just look good. They actually, like, when the game's on the line, McDavid and Dryside will play their best. And that's why their prolific scores in the playoffs. That's why their teams make it all the time. And you go, well, Matthews is pretty good and Marner's pretty good and all this stuff.

But when the games on the line, are they actually going to show up or not? And that's been their biggest criticism of them since their career started, essentially, is when the games on the line, are they going to step up or not? Absolutely. I agree with that. I think that they just have no pushback. There's, I mean, third and fourth lines are non-existent and the core four are quiet, very quiet. So there's no pushback.

I'm not going to jump off a ledge here because I jumped off a ledge after Skinner lost the first two L.A. games. And then we saw the Skinner done coming back in after Picker gets hurt. They lost game three. They could have gone up 3-0, but they lose an overtime. Right. Then they get shut out and then they get shelled. Right? So.

You can see it distracting. Like you can see it. also jersey's being thrown on the ice in the game that was that was something else i haven't really seen that before oh i'll go back to the oilers in the dark days of the oilers that wasn't in the playoffs that was um so so i reached out to a friend as a huge Toronto fan and he was tweeting tweeting out there and i'm just like so on a scale of one to ten puckered like where are tronofans and he's like 11 yeah like the Toronto fans have had so much of like we've been close we've been good but not good enough that they've had their hopes crushed so many times

they have no faith whatsoever. None whatsoever. And that's why they're throwing jerseys is because they thought maybe this year that, oh yeah, we're good. And this is our year. One of these years, they are good. At the start of the playoffs, Jay went,

you know, one of these years they've got to put together, right? Like one of these years, just like luck of the lottery, somehow they're going to make it. And I go, no, not until their best players decide that they're going to make it happen. I, do you not think that, like, you change GM, you change coaches, is you keep the same players that maybe it's the players, not the GMs and the coaches.

I agree with that. I agree with that. And also, I think just the amount of pressure those players have in Toronto is crazy. Like, I mean, they know that every game and every day they step on that ice that those fans are going to be chewing them up. Right. So if you look at McDavid, though, he actually welcomes the pressure onto him. Right. When you see him.

Like, he wants that pressure. He wants to be the guy. And what, like, you look at the first couple of games when L.A. was beaten Edmonton. And Eminton could have folded, like, by. McDavid came out and was unreal in that third period to bring it all back they lost the game but he didn't quit dry settle was the same way like they were unbelievable and that that's the leadership that actually brings the rest of the team with you your third and fourth line players start playing because they look at the best player and go like guys are we going to let him do it all

or we actually going to show up here right I don't know which fair point but McDavid is the best player in the world so of course it's a lot easier to lean on him yes or dry settle right and once again, I think it goes to the character of the guys. But that being said, you look at what the oilers are doing this year compared to the past. Every guy is stepping up, right? Well, they're fun to watch right now. Every line's playing. And what have we criticized?

It would be hard to be a player on a team that only runs two lines when they had dry saddle, McDavid separated and they take, you know, you're getting on the ice for four minutes on the fourth line, let's say. I mean, now they got dry settle playing between Podkoulson and capting it. And you're like, how's that a line? And then they score the game winner last night. Like you just, how's that, how's that, you know? Okay, but Kinger said that, you know, they don't have McDavid and Drysiddle.

But if you've listened to Toronto fans in the last five to ten years, Matthews is better than Drysidal and Marners is pretty good and William Nealander's really good. You're missing a name too because I've seen him play. John Tavares is no freaking slow. No, no. This is what I mean, though, is you go, well, Eminton's got McDavid and Drysaddle. It's like, well, are Toronto's best players really that good or not? Well, we're going to see in game six.

Absolutely. Like, to me, if you lose 2-1 in overtime, that's a heartbreaker. You walk in and you lay in, you could just wipe that one from the memory, can't you? You're just like, man, guys, we just played bad. The media is going to shit on you whether you lose 2-1 or you lose 6-0. They're always going to be like, they did this wrong and this run. It's Toronto. If you're a Toronto player, you get to go play game 6 in Florida, erase it from your mind.

All the names we just rattle up. They're the best Toronto Maple Leafs team I have seen in a long time. probably in recent memory, you've got to go back to Matt Sundin where they actually have some leaders in there. Tavares is... They're deep. I think they're the deepest they've ever been. Actually, their defense are solid.

They've got the best defense ever. Their goaltending has been phenomenal, right? And they got enough forwards to push them through. Their third and fourth line are decent enough to put them through. I've actually had Toronto going right to the finals. I had Toronto and Dallas in the finals. So this is me not saying they can't do it. This is me saying there's a moment in time in game six.

Game six is it. This is it where I actually think if they don't do it, like if they don't show up, they probably start moving pieces because, like, this is the moment in time where it's all coming to a head. You've had a good team for a lot of years. You haven't made it past for one reason or another at some point.

And this is the point where it's got to happen. Where do you start with that process? Yeah. And the fact is they're playing against the Stanley Cup champion team, a team that has a ton of dudes, A ton of guys that have been there and have won before and are wanting to win again. Like Florida's no wash, right? Like that's a darn good hockey club they're playing against.

And when they're rolling, they're as tough as anyone. But the excuse in Toronto for the last how many years is like, wow, we play Boston and their Stanley Cup contender. We played Florida. Tampa Bay. And it's always like, well, yeah, we're a really good team. And it's like, yeah, okay, are you going to be a championship team or not? At some point, you have to beat the team that's the Stanley Cup contender if you're going to be one.

Nobody has an easy ride. you might argue, if a Jay was sitting here, you might argue, that Carolina hurricanes have had the easiest road, right, by having New Jersey first and missing their star forward, and now playing the Washington Capitals, and we all thought was Washington really the top team in the East? They got great goal-tending, but, like, you know. Two lines, they're not three and four lines deep, right?

Third and fourth line aren't. So you might argue Carolina's got the easiest road to the finals, but realistically, you could also, Colorado had Dallas first round, or Dallas had Colorado first round, right? Right? Those two teams could easily be in the Stanley Cup finals. They're both that good. And then Dallas has to worry about Winnipeg in the next round,

and Winnipeg was the top team in the NHL. Right? Like, I mean, at any point, you have to beat the best teams. You're going to face them at some point. Toronto just got, you know, you could argue they had Ottawa first round, right? And so now they got Florida. Yeah, Florida's really good. But, you know, you mentioned Dallas in the finals.

Well, you know, if you're a fan, would you rather have a fan? would you rather have Florida in the conference finals or have to play Dallas in the conference finals? It's almost a coin toss, isn't it? They're both great teams with great goal-tending, great defense, enough firepower to really make life uncomfortable for any fan base. There's, I remember this will please Kinger.

I remember LeBron James the first time he won one. Now I'm not a huge LeBron fan, but I remember him talking about he was facing the Celtics, I believe. when they had that, uh, the trio of really good, big three. And they were trash talking him and just like demeaning him in that series.

And, but he reached a point where he overcame the adversity or his own mental, to push ahead and actually get through there. And then he won his first championship. And he had to dethrone the Golden State. Got his three buddies to come with him? Is that when he was, oh, sorry,

that one. I was thinking when he won the, when he came back, when he came back to Cleveland, That was a tough one. That was awesome to see. But what I mean by this is like if you're going to, it's not like things just happen.

You know, like you just don't win because you got the best players. You have to go out there and give it your all. And, and, you know, like you've got a forecheck and hit, even if you're the best. Like you've got to do all the things to make to win.

And that's where Toronto's sitting right now is like, are you going to do those things or not? Because if you're not, the team's getting blown up. Well, the thing, have been spoiled with is we can be down 7-0 and I never feel like we're out of a game.

Right? Just like case of point, game one against L.A., you're getting shelled, you're getting outplayed, your goaltender's not playing well. McDavid-Alson goes to a completely different realm and it's 4-4 and, of course, we lose it, but you're like, how many times have we seen this? Calgary used, when we played Calgary in that series,

remember how many times you grabber, you guys were like, just killing us, and then they would score another, and then they'd score another, and then we give up one, and then we go score another. Well, and Markstrom wasn't the same after that. Like, that really killed his confidence that series because he was never the same. Like, he was fantastic that season. And then that playoffs happened.

He played well for New Jersey this year, I thought. He did. But this is years after, right? Sure. It's taken him a while because he was not the same goalie after that series. You know what it is? It's very similar to like when you're playing baseball and you have an ace on the mound. If we just get one, if we just get one, right?

If the oilers are just close, if we stay close, like that you can tell they have that. Yeah. confidence level goes up way up, right? So you just feel comfortable there, right? Well, they got game, like, you know, anytime Drysettle or McDavid's on the ice and they get any clear shot, you have a game breaker. And Maple Leafs have those in just like droves. They got two lines.

When they're on the ice, if they get one opportunity, it can go right in the net, right? And it just, you know, it hasn't been that way for them. I look at the Maple Leafs and I go, you know, game six, I actually like that it's in Florida for them. But actually, you guys got to remember one thing, though, too, also. you got to remember who's in net for Florida. Big bad Bob standing in there. He's doing his thing constantly,

kicking his pads and grabbing stuff. He makes it look easy too for Florida, right? So it's not easy. And yet I remember in the Stanley Cup finals, at times the Oilers made him look average. So like any of these goalies, is there one where you're like, like Ottinger to me is probably the one.

I watch him and I'm like, he's a really freaking good goalie. And Bobowski can be that way. Yeah, when he's on, he's on. But Aiden Hill a couple years ago, But when we lost and Vegas went to the Stanley Cup finals, when he came in for Brasua, I was like, we can't score on this guy.

He's just so big, and the Oilers found a way again. You know, so like you've got to find a way. These guys are... Well, if you look at what Captain's goal to win it, you know, he's diving at the puck when it's in the creche on his belly because, like, he wants to win. He'll do anything to win. And now the Oilers have a big goalie that looks like he's got some confidence.

Yeah. Did you see his interview with Gene Princepe after the game last night? Yeah. I didn't. I turn it off. What do you say? Gene asked him basically, you know, how did you, like, how did you battle back? And he said that that game was the one he has been the least stressed about, one. And I think that's probably getting a win under his belt, right?

I have to assume he got a win, not only a shutout, but a, or not only a win, but a shutout. And he said, you know, like, it's, what do you say? It's hard staying composed, basically, in an insane world, right? because there's so much pressure on him to come in. All the media, all the fans, think about what our first podcast. You're like, what the hell is going on with Stuart Skinner? It's the LA Kings. I don't know what it is about the LA Kings.

Every year we watch it. Every year, you know, we've relied on, you remember when Campbell came in and stole us that game and had to play. It was uncomfortable to watch him. You know, he had the stick break the one time where he goes past and they put it in the net. You're like, what is, this has been Skinner. And yet last night, he lucked just composed everything with Sharley. He was in full control. He was in full control.

And if you get through, I mean, we were less than a couple periods away from when a Stanley Cup with that guy in that. So it's, you know, he gets back in the saddle. I said it. I thought there's a waste of Skinner's going to be back in the head. I can't see Pickard running 16 straight. It would be a cool story if he did. Picker gets hurt. Skinner comes back in, has a tough first game back.

Now he's been two straight games. No goals. Well, and they get some time off now. It's possible. I've heard rumors that Echo might come back, which would be huge for. them because that would give them a 6D man that you're like that are really good. Their D have been playing. Yeah.

For what they have there, when you look at their group, you're like. No, Kulek's been playing unbelievable. I thought he's step. Kuhleck's been such a great defense. Just steady. You know what you're going to get with them every game? He's just, he's right in there every game. Nurses is doing like just playing a basic game where he gets in front of Pucks,

bangs bodies without trying to do too much. And he looks good out there. Klingberg every game looks more comfortable. Man, was not a pickup. Bushard. Bouchard, like, he annoys me, and yet at the same time, he makes plays where I'm like, man, the presence of mind with that pass,

like, as much as I want to hate on the guy for oopses and being a little soft in the corner, he goes in, he picks the puck up, he drills a pass 50 feet away, and you're like, with pressure on him and guys trying to kill him because you know the other team is trying to run Bouchard through the boards. It's probably one of the number of things on their board, I would think, if you're Vegas, you probably like hit Bouchard. Because about all the defensemen,

He's probably the guy you want to hit the most. Quarterback of the power plays. I like him because he just gives that little extra spark plug sometimes. He just that guy that just does that thing like, wow, look what he did. You know what's crazy is the Oilers are winning and doing it fairly, you know, at the moment. But if you look, they still haven't had a power play that's like they had the best power play for the last five years. They haven't scored and they haven't scored on the road in the playoffs. That's right.

That's what it is on the road. They're 0 for 13 or 0 for 14 on the road. And yet it's still running at 29. percent or it was until last night so it would have dropped the but it hasn't been like their power play hasn't been it didn't look good last night it hasn't been real great for the last little bit it still has the feel though when they're out there like you feel like this is they're going to score like you still feel even though they haven't been scoring but it's because you look at all the weapons and you're like they're still controlling the play they're just every team now when they play the oilers power play

stacks four guys on top of the net don't let the pass go through to dry so for the one yep that And the Oilers, you know, like, I don't know, when we were struggling to put the puck in the net on a power play, and they're stacking all their guys, I always say, do the Joe Sackick, shoot for the net, miss the legs, and you think of Bouchard, the goals he's scored, it's come from putting the puck on the net and causing a little chaos, because all they're doing is just standing there, making sure they, you know, dry-sidal and McDavid racing around the outside. Yeah. But they're not getting that pass-through. And having Perry and Hyman switch up on the power play,

A lot of what they do is they shoot for Hyman, Hyman makes his body big and it bounces in off him. They haven't been able to get that going either. He's the third goal post out there always. He's right against the post, tugging a tight, and then bank it off him or something's going to happen. You're into the conference finals without your power play being your power play at some point. And missing your best defenseman.

Best defenseman, yeah. That's a key point. Which Dallas, so Dallas got Heissken and back last game, which is huge for them because he's their best defenseman, which makes their team that much better. I can't see Winnipeg coming back

because I think Dallas is just far too good but if you look at Dallas Eminton conference final that would be a series Well two two years in a row That's right Owen We got Owen sitting in here as well

I guess I didn't give Owen a shout out His first time on the podcast He just said that is same as last year Eminton Dallas in the conference final Which was a fun series last year as well Well and I think I don't know As an other fan I wasn't sure we could beat Dallas last year And then we came out and we beat them

And you're like holy crap We're a good, you know, I mean, obviously we're a good team, but that was a test. And Dallas, I mean, all the series for the Oilers have been a test. L.A., I know how good they are. I hate playing watching the Oilers play them because they're that good. We see it every year. I'm like, man, these guys are good. They probably hate, you know, as an L.A. fan, you're like, just give us anybody but Edmonton.

Right? One different matchup to start. Yeah, if they played anyone else, they probably win the first round. Like, you know, like there, they got some players on that team. Well, in the Vegas, Eminton series is close, but they won it in five games. So, like, it's close, but at the same time, like, Eminton's rolling right now. Well, Vegas banged up, though, too. Missing Stone for two games.

That hurts. That hurts. Yeah. Okay, so Dallas, Dallas Winnipeg here. I just think Dallas is too good. I think Winnipeg is just so banged up. I think Winnipeg is, I think they're playing injured. I think Morrissey still hurt.

Eilers are still hurt. Shifeley. Shifley, I think is still hurt. So I think they're just really, really banged up. So it's going to be hard for them to pump back, I think. Who's more likely to come back from 3-1? You've got two series left, right? Washington and Winnipeg.

Washington and Winnipeg are both down in 3-1. I would say Washington only because they got the goaltending, and Carolina is going to put 40 shots on you every single game, but they aren't the – don't get me wrong. They obviously got scores, and they can really do some things. but if you get great goaltending out of Thompson and some timely scoring out of Washington, I could see them picking away at that.

I have a hard time believing they can do that, but I don't see Winnipeg coming back against Dallas straight. Do you? Throw the third series in. Toronto being down 3-2. Are they the one that is most likely to come back? I'm just looking at the game odds here. They got Winnipeg is a favorite at home, which, okay, fair.

And the caps are a huge underdog at home. A huge underdog. Yeah, huge underdog at home. And there's no odds on the Leafs game yet. But, yeah. So they're saying Washington's losing. Yeah, well, I don't know. They need Thompson.

Thompson has to stand on his head. Thompson's got to play out of his mind in game four. Agreed. Right? Yep, that's the way to get through. We've all seen hot goalie steel series and just, you know, like there's story after story of it. I actually don't like Washington's chances. I'd actually say Winnipeg as being a better, better chances, although I don't think either of them come back.

I think it's just tough to win three out of four games. Well, and I think those teams are too good. I think Dallas and Carolina are just too good. On the flip side, you know, if you're either of those teams to win three in a row, as soon as you put your mind like that, I think you're right. But if you go, we just got to win at home. Winnipeg's been very good at home. Yes.

They come in, they win a game. And then you go game six, the pressure shifts to Dallas because if you lose, you go back for game seven, and we all know anything can happen in a game seven. And so if you go, if you win game five, you just got to go on the road and win one. Win one. And you got Connor Hallibuck who. So you were talking about Thompson. Hella Buck is the Vesna winner.

I know, but he's been playing. He has not looked great in the playoffs. But he's been really good at home. But if he wins at home. Then he's got to win it on the road. And that's where they need him. That game sick. Win it at home.

Game six will be a huge game for Helibuck if they get to that point, right? Like they need him standing on his head. And he's got to prove to everybody that. he can handle that pressure, right? And right now, you know what I mean? He's 50-50, right? Yeah, like, I mean, you win game five, you go on the road, you win game six. All the momentum shifts is already shifted. Like, I like the pressure, right? Everybody says there's no moment. The analysts love to say there's no momentum. I think that's BS. I think there is. But you got to win. You got to stop the bleeding. You got to win a game at home. They both get at home, Washington,

and there's no better place to win a game. You don't want to lose at home. So they win at home. You go to game six. All the pressure shifts to the other. their team because they're up 3-1, they're supposed to win, so they come home and they should close it out. And if they stick it close, Hellebuck or Thompson steals a game, then you come home from game seven, anything happens, plus you're on home ice for game seven. Just ask Vegas how tough it is. I know, but they, I agree.

They shut out, they shut out McDavid Dry Settle for, what, 70 minutes last night? Yeah. Still lost. Yeah. Still lost. I'm not saying it's easy. No, no. You win a game.

Just win a game. That's the mindset. Don't put it to, we got to come back to three. So Oilers being down 3-0 in the finals last year, just win a game. Then they win a game. Okay. Let's just find a way to stay close. Oh, we win another.

Now we're back home for game six. They win three in a row. Game seven, anything can happen. I hate game seven. Win it before you get to a game seven. Bad penalty goes in, you know, like we played noon hour last night yesterday. Things are going in off of people's butts and everything. It's just like no matter what we do.

It's just going in the night. Wow. That's how Kinger scores all his goals off the butt and shoulders. I was just thinking back on Caponin, when the Oilers picked him up. I always liked him in Toronto and always wondered why they let him go. Is that where he was playing? He started in Toronto. Oh, well.

Caponin started in Toronto and had a really good year. I think he put up like 20 goals on one point, I think. What's Cappanin's first name? K-A-S-P. I like him. He's big. He's strong. So I always liked him in Toronto and they let him go and I always wondered why.

But I think it was a cap issue. And then he kind of bounced around a little. bit. And when he ended up in Evanton, I'm like, oh, he's 20, he's 28 years old. I just wanted to look him up because it's not that old. No. And actually I'm surprised, well, I guess I'm not totally surprised that he didn't start the playoffs on the team because Arvinson was the guy. Played. He played. That was their big signing. And then in the end, Capitin's the better one than like you look at the Oilers two signings last year. It's almost hilarious. Arvinson and Skinner both they're not playing even though they spent big money on him. And the guys that were kind of like afterthoughts,

like, you know, they picked up in the middle of season. He was drafted in the first round 22nd overall by the Pittsburgh Penguins. Really? Well. And then when I go with Pittsburgh go first, did he? He played in the H.L. with Wilkesbury Scranton for four games, it looks like. And then he must have had his rights or him traded. Obviously, he went to the Toronto Maple Leafs for nine games in 2015-16, but he played the majority of his season in the H.L.

Then he played eight games in 2016-17. and the rest in the HL. Then he played 2017-18 with the Leafs, 38 games. So he split time half and half. And then in 2018, 2019, that's where he got his, he was full-time.

And he played 78 games that year, had 44 points. The next year he played 69 games for the Leafs, 36 points. And then he went to the Pittsburgh Penguins for three years. And he had 40 games and 30 points, 32 games and 79 games with 32 points. and his final year in Pittsburgh,

he split, he must have got traded to St. Louis. So he played 40, okay, and then he plays two years in St. Louis. So the reason why he went on waivers at St. Louis? It's because St. Louis didn't have a roster spot with him after they signed Holloway and, uh, right? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was one of the reasons why he came up on waivers,

and the Oilers claimed him. So he played 57 games for the others this year 13 points. So that's how he gets to where he is. What was his top goal total? Did you see that? This is his second contract then, right? Um, goals. Because I think he had one year where he put up almost 20.

Was it 15? I can't remember with Toronto. He had like, he had a really good year. Put 20 goals in in 2018, 19. Yeah. Yeah. That was his highest point total.

78 games, 20 goals, 24 assists. It's just funny how guys like that come to you randomly. So you got all these big plans with Arvetson and Skinner and they're not playing right now. And Capnan, who was a waiver pickup, somehow he looks good out there. Like he's, He's what you want in the playoffs, essentially. He'll go as hard as he can at all times. Right.

He doesn't care how much time he plays. He's playing with Drysaddle now, which is crazy. Him and Pod Colson. But if you look at what Drysaddle is for a player, dry saddle needs guys to go in there hard and get the hot because he's not quite as quick. I would love to have been in the coaches room because he didn't play a single game until the last two, correct? Yep. So he didn't play one the single game.

Kappenden hadn't been in the playoffs yet. I wonder what they were looking around because you're up three games, two game, three games to one no two games to one and you should have you know in game three arguably they should have won that but you know regardless um what was going on in the coaches room we're like we're gonna put cap in it i think they just needed some drive and some heart and some some guys that have a lot of desire to go for that puck right i think they just want on some guys are going to have hunger go hard and and well i think arvison was easy to take out because you just looked at him you're like well he's just not doing that whole hum just a regular

skate up and down the ice. They used to be a high skill guy. Right. Used to be elite skill guy, right. But I think that's exactly the conversation as the coaches were sitting like this and said, well, shit, let's give him a chance. Let's see what he can do. They'll be hungry.

And they probably said, hey, we want you after loose pucks. We want you banging body. Like, that's an easy role for a guy that hasn't played chomping at the bit to come in and fill. It's harder to fill a skill role coming in, not playing, right? A brilliant coaching move, though. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

One him and Paul Koulzen have the same role, essentially. It's like, come back hard, make sure we don't give up any odd man rushes. When the puck goes in, go get it. Essentially. Get the puck to dry sidles and make things happen. Yeah. I will say the last couple of games, more than I've ever seen

McDavid back checking and lifting sticks coming back on pucks. Wow. Like it's happening more and more where he used to just kind of drift back and pick up the trailer where he's came back on pucks and like took pucks away. That back check yesterday was unbelievable. They showed him come out of that corner all the way back down the ice. And yeah. He's skating his hard backwards at times when the moment calls.

for it as he is going which is amazing well in order to win you got you got a you got a you know what it takes now right like can't get any closer than you were last year right right and so you know you you uh you were telling us you know what you guys did for the national championship of pumping noise in and different things to mimic it because it's such a you go from playing at this level to coming back down McDavid in that group right how many guys were there last year that know what it takes to get there and you're seeing it play out like honestly I remember Steve Eisenman back in the day he's getting lots of points but not having success in the playoffs

and one of his coaches I think it was Bowman had a chat with him he wrote an article about this yeah and Bowman told him like look if you want to like if you if you want to win scoring titles or get lots of points that's fine in the regular season but if you actually want to win you actually have to modify your game you're probably going to get a few less points but you've got to work as hard defensively as you do offensively and that's after that Steve Isman changed changed his game and that led to Detroit winning Stanley Cups essentially. And you look at, I'm sure McDavid after last year, he probably sat for two, two months

probably stewing on the fact that they didn't win. And he's like, what do, you know, and he's a guy that's like, what do I have to do? And instead of, you know, looking around and blaming someone else, he's like, what, what can I do to make my game better so that we have a better chance to win? Because I want to win a Stanley Cup. And this is the result, essentially. Yeah, that Eisenman, he took 20 less points, I think. the year after Bowman had that talk with him playing more defensive role playing

more defensive take more defensive face-offs and then the winning start that was the game yesterday basically we were with Evanton Vegas I was defensive all the way through like everybody was making sure their own ends were protected before they went offensively right so well if you look at their coverage in the off in their defensive end like they they're never leaving the front of that net open whatsoever no that's right their wingers are down low and if it goes out to the point to go to the point man but they like they've got that front of that net locked down so well.

Sean, you and I were talking about that yesterday in terms of playoff hockey. You were talking about your experience, but like there's not a lot of shooting lanes on either team right now. And especially that's where last night I noticed Skinner being so big with the minimum shooting lanes, like there was just no net windows anywhere. That's right. You couldn't see net any time a shot was there. It was legs or goalie.

That's all you could see. But you talked about that. Like it's a pretty simple game if you can get everyone to commit to taking away shot lanes and packing in a little bit. You know, everything, everything tightens up, right? And you get people to buy into, like, blocking shots, backchecking like nobody's ever backchecked before. Because in a regular season, you can get into, you know, 82 games. I've never played 82 games in a season.

I think the highest I did was 60. And 60 by game 30, I was like, oh, my God, we still got half-seasoning out. I think Graber and I put in a couple of 82 game seasons. I know now. Yeah, I think I have done that for a couple of years now. that's probably why I'm out right now for a month and a half of the shoulder injuries. But you get to the doldrums of a season where you're just like, you know, like we just got to find a way.

You're trying to stay healthy. You're trying to stay motivated on and on. But you get to the playoffs. Every game matters so much. The little things, everything just tightens up. So you say that. And in the biggest game of the year for Toronto, they give up six. It's hard to be that perfect all the time.

You're not hiding your hate for Toronto here very well. Well, here's the thing with Toronto is it's not even a hate. It's like they have to decide what they want to become. And that's game six essentially. I think just their passion to win is not there. And that's what frustrates me more than anything. It's like they got talent, they got D, they got the goaltending. They have a great team this year.

But just their passion and drive to win isn't there. Like they just, you got to dive at Pucks. You got to block shots. You got to do all the extras. And you can't do it one time. You've got to do it all the time. Every time. That's right.

to win, you have to do it repeatedly. It's not just a one time. I'm honestly waiting for John Tvers because I've seen him play live. And I'm just waiting for, he is a man. I'm waiting for him to just go in the corner, bump a guy, run over a guy, pick the puck up and walk ahead and put a top shelf.

Like, I mean, and just be like, wow, he imposed his will, right? They have guys that should be able to impose their will. You're not expecting Mitch Marner to go in the corner, elbows up, drop a guy, pick the, and go in, that's not what you're expecting. Marner is a very opportunistic score. So if you look back at the last Toronto team that was really good, they had Wendell Clark who did that for them. They had Matt Sundeen who was the best player.

But Wendell Clark was the guy who just like went in there and did anything possible to win. And if you look at the teams that are really good right now, Florida has a bunch of those guys. And they're coached by one of those guys. Yes. And it's like, is Toronto going to, you know, where is the guys that are going to? Yeah, it's got check time. Yeah. I think Toronto right now, if anything, all the guys are at that right age right now to win.

and they've got leadership in that room. If it's not now, when? Agreed. I think this is the year that they really have to get these next two wins to get to the next round. And if they don't, I don't know what's going to happen for their next year. I was, I just wanted, you know,

we were talking about McDavid doing everything. They were talking about last night he's quietly, how many points he's got quietly. He's second in the playoffs right now with 17 points, dry settle at 16. Number one right now is ranting and after the stretch he went on. but you know it's funny to have like he's changed his game and he's he's still putting up a crazy amount of points right

like well you just notice it like usually as oilers fans you notice when he gets wound up and he's coming with a full head of steam and you know something's going to happen either a shot or a good play but when you see him put that speed into a back check it's like holy like it is noticeable when he's flying back and if we notice it his team notices yes big time and you know the boys are getting fired up over that back check and stick on the puck and going the other way. He's turning into a leader. You know, they give him the sea at how old,

right? But, I mean, like, first year, wasn't it? Did they give it to him his first year? Did they give it to him his first year?

Did they? When they drafted him on stage, didn't they just put a parade on him right then, didn't they? I think he got it his first year. Can you imagine being on, uh, uh,

any of us being on, you know, grab your, you're the never sweats, right? Right. And, you know, the young guy comes in,

whatever the young guy is for you guys now and you just put the sea on them, it would be like, what? What's going on here? Yeah, old Desi would be mad with that. Yeah, I know. Desi's the captain, true and true. Yep, you bet you know it. I agree.

For listeners who don't know anything but that never sweats, they're a team here in Lloyd, and the oldest guy is 70, what is he, 78? Desry, yes. So, you know, like the young guy for you guys is probably 40, roughly? Youngest guy would probably be... Wasn't Jay the youngest guy?

He was. Brownie, I think, is now the youngest. 46, 47-ish, yeah. It's funny. I don't even think, you know, would you even want to see at that? And yet in the NHL, they look at the best player. And, you know, he's going to be in the conversation if he continues his career and wins a couple of cups as the best player of all time, right? He's going to be in that conversation.

But to walk in and put the C on him, right? You could just imagine being the old guy and being like, I get it. But you don't know squat yet. It's like the QB, right? The drafted QB, first round QB. comes in, they name him captain, and all the guys in the room just hate it because he hasn't done anything.

He doesn't know what it's about yet. So sometimes you have to do it for stars. Well, it used to be all like experience and leadership and all that, and then you gave that to the... You wanted the battle test of the trenches for years that know exactly what it takes. Since you're talking about this, Leafs breakup here, who's the first guy that goes?

If you're the GM here, because we're all saying the same thing. essentially the character of the guys or the group collectively probably I'm with you on Marner too. I would need Marner, Matthews, and I'd probably move Marner, I think. But can't you get a Kings ransom for Matthews? Austin Matthews, you could trade and get a King's rant. Like you could restock the shelves with Matthews going out, right?

Johnny T's got a big contract, it'd be hard to move. But Matthews is in the prime. he's one of the elite scores in the game, if not the greatest score behind. That'd be a terrible, like, that'd be an awful thing. As a GM looking at that, you'd be like, that's what I said, where do you start in that whole

rebuild process if it does happen? I wonder if Ranton's available. You got to pluck off a piece to start, right? You got to take one out. Everybody probably goes the easy guy to move is Marner, because he's an elite score, elite player, but he's your soft guy. So you go, we could probably move him.

It's just the return isn't going to be, it'll still be good, but it will not be the return of Matthews. I would definitely say move Marner first, and I would say probably Matthew's second, and I'd probably keep Nielander on that lineup. I'd keep him. Man alive, Leif's fans are just, they've been a couple games left.

They've been talking about them. Don't worry, you'll totally win game six and seven and Lee's fans. I totally have every confidence. I have confidence, too. I mean, obviously for Dad and all my true, Leaves fans that have been dying It was a 58 years since they've won

So I'm hoping that Toronto gets through Just this year Dust has zero faith And I think they have the guys in their They just got to find a way to win one They just got to figure out And they got the coaching They just need to win one

Right Are they going to find the cohities or not That's the question Yeah Okay Before we get to this week's Silver Coin bet NBA

Kinger you wanted to bring it up walk us through this. Well, I know you guys are big NBA fans. Huge fans. I've been watching all the games. No, it's just how hard it is to win, right? The Celtics winning last year, and it looks like they're going to be

the top team in the east coming out of the east and their best player, Jason Tatum, tears his Achilles. And you talk about, like, changing a franchise. So he's not only out for this year's playoffs, so they're down three, two, to the Knicks right now, so they'll probably lose the Knicks, but then... They just won last night, though, right? They did they come back?

Did you watch the game? Did you watch the game? I didn't watch the game. I watched the highlights, but being down 3-1 without your best player and they win. So you want to talk about championship caliber team? Huge karma game, yeah. Like they didn't just roll over. No.

No, they came out and fought. Yeah. But it's interesting because most times when you win the next year, you're battling all those disease of me things, right? The empathy and guys wanting bigger roles and attention and all those different things, bigger contracts. And now you lose your best player. I just think the window and how lucky you have to get to win.

Not only, like we talk about injuries, you have to be lucky with injuries. You have to be lucky with the matchups. Like everything just literally has to break, right? And great for the Celtics, they got one. But now they might be blowing up their entire franchise because he's going to be out for 12 to 18 months now, right? Is that how it is for an Achilles? Yeah. Well, he won't play next year for sure, yeah.

Wow. Yeah. So there you go. Championships are tough. Well, we've all been around sports. If you, if you, you know, like the oil is as good as they're playing right now. If, you know, let's, let's, you know. David crashes into the boards, breaks a leg and then what?

And then what? Really? Can they still win? Possibly, but they're going to be a heck of a lot harder. And right now. Skinner goes down. You got picker down, skinner down. You got like, now you're Rodriguez in that.

Maybe, you know. So there's certain times with certain teams where the regular rules don't apply, where you hit a certain level of buying with the players that, Like they talk about next man up and that kind of thing, but where the things that would normally sideline, you just don't. And will, the Celtics win again? Probably not because it's their best player. But it's not like they just rolled over either. And you go with Emmington.

I was worried coming into this playoffs because their best defenseman at home. The guy, the guy who, you know, the anchor on that D is out. And you're like, can they win without him? Like, like he's their best D man. And it's not close when it comes to, you know, defending. in their own end and that's a big problem for them but they've actually done extremely well and it's like with some team sometimes there's just so much good mojo and karma going on that they they just bond together and it doesn't matter what happens they just keep going and they find a way

Tampa Bay lightning not having Stephen Stamco's yeah well if you remember back in the day Colorado lost Forsberg for a while and they still went on a run and won the cup without Forsberg who was one of the top what five guys in the league at that time um so it can have like but I get your point like the window is way shorter than you think and a lot of things have to go right I would say the oilers probably know you can we've talked about this before you can feel when it gets special in a room like you can feel like what's happening right now with all the depth scoring and stuff like those guys you don't have to go in the room those guys are all bought in like you can tell it's something special is happening right now and yeah that's when

you can get over some of those at home losses and other things like that well skinner getting her or skidner not playing well and then pickard comes in and battles and you win rattled off six in a row yeah right there's just there's just a little bit of mojo well and that magic it's you want to create it but like it it's not something you can just like physically like oh we're going to make magic here and it's going to work right like that is everything yeah it's like a formula that's you can't recreate it it happens in the moment at that time the thing that has to happen always with those teams is you have to overcome some type of adversity. That's kind of what like is the last glue piece I always find is some injury or something bad happening. And if if the

team overcomes it, then it's it's almost like a trajectory. You need that adversity to overcome. Well, and I talk so I've been hated on the Leafs today. But that after losing after losing six one in game five, that moment in time is game six for them. That's why it's actually exciting to watch game six. You're just launching the pressure. No, no, well, it is. Did they actually watch video of that game? What do you guys think? I wouldn't show that game. No.

Not a chance. I don't think you do any video room. You're going back to early in the series, all the good plays, defensively, offensively. You're skipping that. You're giving them a confidence package before this game. You are not showing the negatives. No way. Because what are you going to show them?

They know they were shit. Oh, yeah. They know. They're pros. Just pump their tires before the next game. And as Sean said, one period of time, one period, one shift, next shift, next play. Who's going to win the end? NBA this year then?

I don't know who's going to okay C probably, which would be awesome because they're led by a Canadian, but it's kind of wide over. Who's the Canadian? Sheaildes, Alexander. He's probably going to be the MVP as well. Yeah, he's a,

wow. They just lost out because Steph Curry got injured, but they were playing really well. I appreciate the love on the wars, but. Who did the Warriors lose to? Minnesota. To Minnesota. Yeah. Curry got injured and then the whole thing.

Wow, and it goes back to the, like, Golden States at the very end of their window for sure. And they, you know. They're holding it together. Yeah, they're taping it together. Yeah. They had a good run. They're still competitive.

It's just a huge amount. And who do the Lakers lose to? Minnesota, yeah. So Minnesota knocked off Donkich and LeBron and. We don't got enough time to talk about those two babies, but. I mean, you just put two of the biggest winers in the NBA. together and floppers.

So I'm not surprised that didn't work out. It was shocking to me that Lakers got. Is that not like insider trading or something? It's more shocking that the Lakers, this is the history of the NBA, Lakers make a huge trade and fleece someone, and the team that just got fleeced, so Dallas had a 1% chance,

magically got the first overall pick in the draft, which is Cooper Flagg, which is like the best prospect since LeBron. So it's like every time someone trades to the Lakers, The Lakers get better than that team. And then they bribe the Pelicans when they traded. They got all of a sudden they got Anthony Davis, the number one pick. You're trying to sound like a conspiracy.

Oh, yeah, big time, buddy. I'm deep in it in the NBA. Yeah. So anyways, the Lakers, that trade should have never happened on any regards. But I will say Don Chitz, when you watch him play, he's frustrating. He yells at the refs. He's lazy. He's not engaged, but he is extremely talented.

A guy like that just doesn't get traded in basketball, like ever. And he did. And then the team that traded him got the first over. pick. Yeah. Yeah. With a one percent chance. They should have finished seventh.

See, in NHL to go the opposite way. And they just keep giving a team that shouldn't get number one or overall, like the Oilers, keep on getting it. Here's the oilers getting six picks in a road. As a flames fan, I'm sure that just. Yeah. That doesn't make you. I remember all your picks, guys.

Yeah. You guys got a ton of them. We got, okay, we got two game sixes and a game five coming up, correct? Two game five. game five's and a game six. Sorry, two game five is and a game six. Okay. For next week's bet, the silver coin, we're going to go off the three games,

and then we'll pick a game and we'll do score for tie break. Grabber, your first up, you got Washington and picking winners, Washington, Carolina, Washington at home, who you got? I'm going to go Carolina. Dust. Carolina. It's making me zig again. All right, fine, Washington.

Ooh. Even though the odds say no chance. Carolina. Owens with me on this one. I don't know if that's a good thing. We'll toss Owen in on the bet. Sure, Owen can be in on it. Okay.

You're going Carolina. Owen wants his silver coin. Yeah. Probably wants them more than anyone else sitting at this table. Can they, I'm going to go Carolina. I don't know if they can. It's funny. I say they could come back, they get hot.

I'm just, I don't know. Have a hard time going against that. Okay, Dust. How about Winnipeg at home to Dallas? I'll go Winnipeg. Gangor? I got to wait to see what everyone does here, but I was thinking Winnipeg, too.

They're at home. I do like them being at home. I think Dallas wins a series, but yeah. I'll give Winnipeg one. I'm going to take Dallas. Grabber? I'll have to go Winnipeg as well at home. I think just the whiteout's going to push them through.

Oh, Dallas. Dallas. All right. And then the final game six in Florida, Toronto, Florida, Kinger. We already know Dust is picking Florida, so we don't have to worry about that. Yeah, I think I'm taking Florida, too. Florida, Florida, I got Toronto. Let's go, T.O.

I'm going Toronto. Yes. Owen, who you got? You're going Florida. Okay. Goals. How many goals are you going to be scored in that game? We'll actually have potential game sevens, although I guess that's not in the car, you know, not necessarily the case.

I guess you can't really do that, can we? No, we're going to go up to the next three because we don't, you know, you can't. Fair enough. You can't. Okay. They're all elimination games. So Friday night, the Toronto Florida game? Yes, go Toronto, Florida.

Toronto, Florida. Toronto, Florida. And I'm going to, I'll start this out. I'm going to say, I'm going to say seven. Are you giving us a score, too, or just the total goals? 4-3 Toronto. So we're picking total goals in that game. Total goals in the game.

Total goals in that game. In the Toronto, Florida. Toronto, Florida. I'm going to go with five. Dust. No, I'll go ahead first. No. You want me to go first?

I want you to go first. I'll go 5-3, Florida. Okay, so dust is going eight. I'll go six. Six. Okay, well, I tell you what, Kinger, you can either take the lower or the high. Do you think it's going to be, you can go four and have four or last, or you can go nine? We'll go nine.

Well, the wheels fall right off at the leaf leaps. Say six three or something like that. They go out in absolute flames and they destroy the team. I was five three. I figured four three with an empty netter is kind of where it's going to be a close game. I think the Leafs are going to fight and claw. Is it going to be close enough? Are they going to, is it going to be a close game where the Toronto media goes, oh, we've got some, you know, we've learned some lessons or something like that.

I think they're going to tighten up defensively all around, both teams. Yeah. Absolutely. So low scoring. This is, this is going to be interesting. I'm fired up to watch Friday. There's enough, there's enough going on here where we could have a very interesting game six for the Leafs, Florida. I normally don't watch, you know, I don't watch this one I'm actually going to watch because it's going to be fantastic either way.

Well, gentlemen, thanks for coming in. Thanks for Kinger and Grabber hopping in the seats of Harley and Jay. And who knows, maybe we'll just keep this group going. That's a lot of fun today. Hey, Jay, Harles? Anyways, they're sitting in the sun basking. I think it's a better balance with smarter guys on the panel with Kinger and Grabber here. And Owen, thanks for coming in today.

We got, you have now, two weeks ago, I had a, was it a 10 and 13 year old or 11 and 13 year old? Anyways, you're in the realm of the youngest people ever to sit in on a podcast or be on it. So there you go. Folks, thanks for tuning to another Brothers Roundtable to everybody listening. We'll be back next week. Thanks, gentlemen.