Shaun Newman Podcast - #852 - Vince Lanci

Episode Date: May 20, 2025

Vince Lanci started his career over two decades ago as a marketmaker on the floors of the NYMEX, COMEX, and NYBOT exchanges, where he specialized in trading commodities with a particular focus on energy options. In 2007, he founded Echobay Partners, a venture capital group dedicated to Exchange Vertical Investments. Currently, he holds the position of Managing Partner at Echobay Partners LLC, overseeing the strategic direction in trading and investment. We discuss Gold, China/USA, generational change and movement in Silver. To watch the Full Cornerstone Forum: https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcastGet your voice heard: Text Shaun 587-217-8500Silver Gold Bull Links:Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/Email: [e-mail] Grahame: [phone]Bow Valley Credit UnionWebsite: www.BowValleycu.comEmail: [e-mail] Use the code “SNP” on all ordersProphet River Links:Website: store.prophetriver.com/Email: [e-mail]

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This is Tammy Peterson. This is Danielle Smith. This is James Lindsay. Hey, this is Brett Kessel, and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks. Happy Tuesday. How's everybody doing today? Before we get on to today's conversation, let's talk a little silver gold bull, shall we?

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substack, it's down on the show notes, and then of course we've been doing week in reviews. I have been slacking, I'm not going to lie. So to all of you waiting for a week in review, we're hoping to get back to it here this coming week. It has been a stretch, and well, we'll get that back up and run in here in short order to folks. The new studio, I just took a tour of it yesterday and it is looking sharp. And if you're wanting to be a part of anything to do with that, get your name on the legacy wall, the value for value idea, shoot me a text. We're looking for all types of things.

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Today's guest has been trading commodities for 20 plus years and is a managing partner, Echo Bay Partners. I'm talking about Vince Lanchie. So buckle up, here we go. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast today. I'm joined by Vince Lanchie. Sir, thanks for hopping on. Thanks for having me on, Sean.

Well, you, sir, we want to start folks with, You were supposed to be on stage at Cornerstone, and then I told people in the audience, he couldn't make it because of heart issues. I said you were okay, but that you just weren't allowed to fly. Maybe you could just summarize what went on so people know that you're not, you know, bedridden. Yeah, okay. My physical health is fine. In fact, I was probably more active after getting the news.

But I have this thing that I was born, right? It's a heart murmur. In the old terminology, it's a heart murmur. It's a heart murmur. And every so often it has to be looked at. When I travel, it has to be looked at. And so my primary freaked out. He's like, wow, your heart member is really loud.

Let's get you to a cardiologist. And let's have all these tests on. Don't fucking travel. Excuse my place. I'm sorry, this is family friendly. And don't travel. And I'm like, why? He goes, well, because then he gave me this whole, you know,

if this happens, it's like an aneurism in your heart. And I'm like, oh, that's cool. And I was like, you know, no big deal. And he kind of freaked me out. You'd be even a doctor's appointment. You start going, it's my will done, right? Anyway, so a week later, the cardiologist has gone all these tests. And he goes, yeah, it's worse.

We'll talk to in six months. Don't go anywhere. I'm like, what's the fuck? But I'm fine. I'm fine. You know, it's an excuse not to exercise, right? for me, right? Anyway. More importantly, not more importantly, but

equally important, so that's the reason I didn't show up there. I'd like to apologize or or explain why my absence by saying that. I appreciate your discretion. It was a panic moment for me. You know, I'm fine now. And I really regret not being able to be there, especially the conversations that we've had.

There are two, I mean, there are everyone I want to listen to. This is the coffee in me. I'm actually excited about this. I wanted to talk to Martin Armstrong about using gold for trade deficit rebalancing. That was something that I know that he did years ago. And I studied his work back then. I wanted to talk to Tom about freedom, which is something I was writing about at the time. And I wanted to talk to Tom Bodrovics because, you know, he and I just hang out and get along.

He's got a new project he's working on. and I wanted to obviously talk to you and the other guy. So I really wish I could have made it. And when it comes to get around again next year, I'll be prepared. Well, I tell you this, I've been getting text because I was in the lead up to the Cornerstone Forum, I'd let it slip on the podcast. I don't know if I'm doing this again. Like I was so stressed.

I was just like, you know, there was a lot going on trying to get it there. And I can say now that was a moment of weakness on this side because we're already in for getting it back in 2026. And the interesting thing is from the conversations I had with all the names you just mentioned, you know, they're like, you know, who should, who would be cool to have on stage next year? And the resounding name was Vince Lanche. And I'm like, whoa, we're going to extend the invite a year early. We're going to bribe his doctor so we can get him here somehow, some way, and, uh, and put you on stage. But, uh, to all the people listening, the Cornerstone Forum is going to come back. Um, Sean,

feeling less stressed right now, which means he's going to be, he's going to take another crack at it. And I know people missed having Vince on stage, but nobody, everybody's just thankful you're okay, right? Like, you know, whether it was really bad to, you know, just to scare either way, we're all just thankful you're okay on, on this side, Vince. Nobody's got any hard feelings for any of that. We had Brett Olin, the CEO of Bow Valley Credit Union, step into your spot and did an excellent job. And so you don't have to worry about that. The show was fantastic. We look forward to hopefully getting you on it next year. Thank you. I mean, look, I recognize the work and effort that goes into that. Every detail you have to, you have to be responsible for. So, you know,

when a guest cancels or can't make it or, you know, whatever happens, you know, if the food doesn't come from the catering, it's like, you know, it's like a wedding. You know, it's, pretty hard course. So I recognize the work that you put into that and that's why I was disappointed that I could not show off. Thank you. Well, I tell you this, I got to have a conversation in my hotel room. It aired on the podcast and for people who watch, I really, really push you to go to just Spotify or Apple or whatever one you listen to because we had no video. I was, I was in no mood to turn on the video cameras. I'm going to slap that part of me next year because I am going to turn the cameras on next year so it can have video to it.

I got to sit as a fly on the wall and listen to Tom Lulwango, Alex trainer and Martin Armstrong, have an hour and a half conversation in my hotel room. We recorded it all and it was just phenomenal. I got to be Martin Armstrong's driver for the weekend pretty much and just sit and pick that man's brain. I mean, of surreal experiences, Vince, that is way up there. And the fact he came to Calgary, came on stage,

was so generous with his time, not to mention all the other speakers, right? I got a ton of time for everybody I put on stage, but Martin was a surreal moment. I don't know if that happens again. Certainly, we're going to try. We're going to ask Armstrong if he's interested in coming back, but you just never know. He's a busy man, and that was super cool. So that all being said, okay, you're on today.

I think we want to start with gold. I'm assuming that's where you would like to start. If you got somewhere, you would like to start before that, by all means. But, you know, that was one. one of the things you were coming to talk on at the Cornerstone Forum. If you want to take it in a different direction to start, it's your floor. Well, I mean, we can briefly touch on golf, although I can talk about it a long time, but I know that you want to talk about silver, and I'm very interested in that because

we need to talk about silver, you know. But just looking at my list of things that I even know what I'm talking about. There's a couple things going on in gold right now. I mean, there's a million things going on in there. So I think the way to look at it in terms of, you know, most of your audience knows what's going on. And they might be asking what's coming. And in terms of price, I'll throw this out there. This is like one of those cheap headlines, but I mean it.

When gold, first of all, we'll talk about that and then I'll touch on what's coming in July. And I haven't talked to anyone else about this, so I saved it for you, and I think it'll be the topic to talk about when it comes to gold going forward. All right, the price part. When gold broke 3,000, people were wondering about where it would go, and that was in March. And when it broke 3,000, we tried to figure out where it would go as well. And what we came up with a metric. And the metric was assuming everything else stays the same, meaning the physical demand out of China continues and actually increase. It's actually increasing.

And the U.S., and nothing else happens economically. There's no big rate hikes or there's no COVID scares. We started to handicap the U.S. or Western, I wouldn't just say U.S., but I would say, you know, Western Hemisphere is all demand, ETF buying, you know, a lot of L. know like stock buy and and we determine that if the ETF demand which is very low there's no one in the West who has money in gold ETS right and that's what they usually they don't go out and buy bars or like like I think our core does they're very under-invested in gold and I did an analysis and it said if they get back up up to the levels that they had when the,

when the, before the, when the Ukraine-Russian war started, okay? Which wasn't a huge number, but it was higher. If the ETF demand gets back up to that, this is when it was trading 3,000. I said, gold will trade between 3,600 and 428. Now, the prices may seem random, but, They're not, and they're based on if everything else is the same and you put this much water in the container, it's going to go up by that much.

That's simply what I did. And sure enough, about one third of that money has come back into the market and gold touched $3,500. I feel very vindicated in that, and I'm going to repeat it again. I'm not saying that we have to go up over the next day, week, or month, but I am saying as ETF demand comes in, the glass is only going to hold so much water before it goes up. which brings me to China, right? The China demand, and I've only talked about this, I've written about it, but I've only talked about this briefly publicly, so I wanted to say something good for you after having a heart attack.

No, I didn't have a heart attack, but anyway. China, China not only is buying gold as a central bank asset to replace treasuries. They've also directed their insurance companies to buy gold. Why would they do that? Because insurance companies historically in the U.S. and everywhere, before stocks were really big, only put their clients' money in insurance products that were interest rates, bonds, shit like that. But interest rates in China are so ridiculously low that they don't have any good product. And so China said to the insurance companies, you can now offer gold as an insurance product, which is perfectly logical.

Now the insurance companies are creating insurance with called a tax bill. Store your wealth, save your wealth, and if you die, you know, whatever the reason. Variable annuity type of thing. And it struck me as incredibly important because if you go back in history when the US, when Reagan was present in the U.S., it's called liberalizing ownership. He told the insurance companies who were only using interest rates securities at the time that they could buy stocks. And that was in 1982, 1984. And what happened to the market in the next years after that, aside from the 87 crash? insurance companies started saying variable millions.

You can buy life insurance tied to the stock market. And everybody started buying stocks more and more. China is doing to gold. Remember China replicates what everyone else does? They copy it. China is doing to gold what we do with stocks. So that's like a bid that's not going to go away. Every Chinese person out there is going to go,

what are your insurance products? I'm not going to buy stocks. They don't trust stocks. What can I buy? Well, you can buy this bond insurance at 1% or you can buy gold. Oh, shit, I'll buy gold. And that's more and more, like there's a total weight of gold demand behind a wall. That's potentially going to break through. So that's not brand new information, but my explanation, no one really, I think, has gone to that length to describe why it's so important. It's not just insurers are buying gold, it's insurers are buying gold for their retail clients, like stocks under Reagan. Here's the brand new thing. Brand new, like yesterday. The bricks are meeting in July. Okay, should I continue?

I mean, I'm just talking my ears off here. The bricks are meeting in July, right? That's their annual summit. Everybody talks about it. And there's always some focus. You know, last year it was Bricks pay. that was like a credit card mostly marketing it's not it's not real yet before that it was mbridge which we kind of broke back then this year well over the last three meetings there's been

a progression they all get these homework assignments okay the meetings over go do this the meetings over go to that this year the meeting last year was about china china is homework was to strengthen the yuan global to make it come out make it international now it has a long long way to go before it gets there but they've since for the last year taken steps towards that all kinds of things cutting contracts getting more oil to trade in yuan things like that you know i'll pay you when you want for your grain so this is all happening slowly now is it going to topple the dollar no but here's the point the yuan so let's say you and I are our country right yeah the the Sean Vince

country and and we want to sell our grades to China and China says you want you want international we'll pay you when you want and you when I look at each other and go I know about that I mean if I'm going to own a paper currency I'll buy you know I'll buy a dollar or Canadian dollar or you know a boo Whatever. I would buy something that at least I know I can spend locally. Because if I can't spend it, I don't know what's going to happen over China, barterian, communist, whatever you want to call it.

So how do you make, if you're trying to, guys like us use their currency? Well, you've got to put an anchor under it. And the U.S., what is that anchor? Treasury, right? We trust treasuries. We trust treasures, AAA until Friday, you know. What is China do? China's going to come out at this meeting and they're going to announce, since they've moved

to internationalize the Yuan, we can do it now. And you and I go, who wants that? You know, I want something that's more stable. China's going to say this, well, we now have 40% of the gold volume in the world trading on our exchange, Shanghai Futures and Shanghai Gold Exchange. We now have some of the biggest vaults in the world. We have more gold in our region, for all the countries in our region, in one place. And we're going to do two things.

We're going to open up franchises of our gold vaults in other countries. So it's like the Komex opening a vault in different countries. Now, why does that matter? It matters because everybody doesn't really trust. everybody's so if the gold vault is in your country and your gold is there so now we've got the yuan that's a piece of paper that can trade internationally now China says to you and me hypothetically what if the yuan was convertible into gold and be like yeah but where's the gold going to be but we'll put it in a vault in your

country so they're going to internationalize their gold vault by doing that make people trust using their currency. By doing that, make people use their currency. And that's what's going to happen. That's what they're going to do. They're bringing gold out. They're coming out of the box with it. They're going public with it. And simultaneously, to make it even more juicy, by Zhao Zhou. He's from the mainland in China. He and I have a professional relationship. and he informed me that China is, to give you an idea like how committed they are, China is offering discounts to domestic retail of anywhere from 10 to 30% on gold products to create gold demand.

So they're basically kind of boosting the market a little bit now. So my point is the summit this year for the BRICS, I think it's like July 7th. You've got July 1st when Basil 3 gets passed or approved. It's a rollout, but it's an event. With the July weekend in the US, which means everyone will be drunk and not paying attention. July 6th, 7th, and 8th, the Brits say, you know what? You can own your gold in your own country. You can own your gold in Saudi Arabia.

You could own your gold in the United Arab Emirates or create a network of exchanges tied to fiscal gold. all of a sudden, they're not going to put an exchange in Canada or the U.S., but all of a sudden, it's like, I may not trust China totally if I'm in the far east or the Middle East, but I sure should trust them if I can go visit my gold. And that's it. So gold's going to have another raised bid. There's going to be more trust in China because of that, you know, in direct trust. So that's my, that's my feel.

Gold's coming out. It's coming out of the box. Gold public. Now, once again, I told Vince this before we started because where I sit on the level of understanding of this entire conversation, I'm like the newbie sitting in the classroom going, uh-huh. Uh-huh. So here comes dumb questions. When you say gold's coming out, I thought gold had its come out with bricks. And forgive me if it wasn't last year, it was here before, but didn't they announce her tying their currency to gold and that was the big come-out party?

So what separates that announcement for the one you're talking about? Right, right, right. Okay, okay. That's a solid point. I think the difference between that is, first of all, they did not, just to be clear about this, nobody said they were backing their currency with gold. Nobody said that, okay? There is what's called a soft pay occurring between.

between China and gold. And all that means is, well, people are on gold, we won't let it get too far away from it. But no one has said that yet. And that's part of the hype, part of the stuff that people want to get ad clicks. Okay, so what came out, and I was trying to keep it on the straight and out

because it was exciting enough, but just people had to go crazy with it. China, all these countries, It's all about treasuries, okay? They're not seeking to replace dollars. I mean, they are, but that's not the point. The thing is, all these countries by treasuries, and that's their CD.

Remember CDs, your mom and your grandma had them, certificates of deposit, that's a U.S. thing. I know if you had them in Canada. CDs, like T-bills, like T-bills, right? CDs are like what old people put their money in. You know, I get my 4% interest, and that type of shit. Well, nations, the bricks, because their bonds suck,

and their bonds sucks, so that means their currency suck, they would put their money in treasury. And then when you needed to buy something, they would cash a treasury or take a dividend, and they buy their oil, they buy their food, they buy their grains, right? And that was the store of value or the collateral. it's the collateral right so I'm going to give you dollars where am I getting a dollar from I'm like Brazil I'm gonna give you dollars where you're in a dollar from I got

some treasuries I'll liquidate you that the first big bricks move was excuse me the first big bricks move was China and these other countries saying we don't want treasuries anymore they're not safe because of the Russia fear because of the confiscation, because of sanctions. We don't want treasures because you can take them from us. And you've got all this debt, you've got all inflation. We want something else that we can cash in and buy our oil with. So, everyone goes, what can we use to replace treasuries?

Your bonds? No. My bonds suck. Your bonds, no. They're not good enough. You know, we're going to buy like Saudi Arabian bonds? What are you going to do? You're going to find something that's neutral that can't be manipulated physically by the government

that you can actually see and that everyone agrees on its value. That's gold. So they say, right, choose gold to replace treasuries and that's what they're doing now. They've been doing it for three years, right? The problem comes, this is wherever you want comes in, the problem comes when, all right, I got my gold brick, I need to go buy oil. What do you got to do? change into dollars right so you're selling gold which is not as quick to do you know it's all about I need to go to my ATM and get the money now I need

to wire it now there's no 30-day clearing there's like five-second clear and so trying and all the guys get together right and they say let's use our own currencies with gold and everyone's going yeah but I don't like your currency I don't like your current I don't like your current I don't I like the goal old idea, but China says, wait, I got an idea. Let's use our currency. Let's use the Chinese. You can see what they're trying to replace the dollar region. Let's use our currency. It's big. There's a lot of it out there. Everyone knows about it. And we're making it more acceptable. Like using a master card. We're making it more acceptable globally. And so they create Embridge,

which is now, I think, called Brick's Square. All that really is is it's kind of a thing that takes the gold and converts it to money without any waste of time. All the other stuff aside, it's here's the gold, we know it's there, we can verify that it's there, and we'll give you money against it. It's like a loan against your collateral. So the gold replaces the treasury, wandre traces the dollar or whatever currency you need,

and boom, you're out. So what happens? Well, they own less treasuries, they own more gold. So what happened in 22 is we have the old mechanism. we have the mechanism to replace treasuries and dollars. We're not backing our currency in gold yet. Maybe they won't. And I want to say it doesn't matter if they back their currency and gold.

Backing your currency in gold creates problems. What matters is that when I look at your books in China or another country, and I go, let me see your country's books. You have this debt, you have that. How much gold you have? oh you've got a lot of gold your currency is good because i know the gold is there and you're good for it like you can always sell the gold that you mean money it's like you know you don't have a lot of cash but you've got vangor art you've got you've got you've got jackson pollock art

let's use that as collateral you can't but that's the point so you've got a lot of valuable things i own houses everywhere you know well in a pinch we'll sell one of those houses but it's kind of hard to sell our house. We can use our currency. And we can use this emberge thing. We can go, we can flip it out. We can do what the U.S. does with Treasuries, which Swift. And so as you move from what we thought was going,

what people thought was going on back then, they're backing their, you know, you're moving towards everyone's got, not everyone, but the people that are most committed to this idea are going to say, what's a what's a currency Brazil Rea out Brazilian Rea I don't want to use Brazil but

Middle Eastern currency like Saudi dollar right called a Saudi dollar right Saudi dollar I have Saudi dollars and I have gold right and I want people to use Saudi dollars but the world won't accept Saudi dollars I'll take my goal

show it to China and I'll say I'll give you yuan for Saudi dollars and they do an exchange rate, and then the yuan goes out and buys oil, or sells oil, or does whatever they have to do. And so you've created an ecosystem separate from the U.S. dollar. Now, there's a lot of problems with it. It's not like easy to do, but that's the core of it. So going forward, there's going to be even more demand coming out of the East for things other than dollars. You know, it's not like to be to go out all but sell their bonds and dollars tomorrow,

They're just going to stop renewing them. They're going to stop rolling them. And they've been selling them too, but they're going to not roll them. You know, when you have a treasury, you get a dividend, and that dividend is what you live off. So gold's going to go up from that. It has been going up from that. And that's what's coming out in July. What's coming out in July is the Brick Summit, to bring back to your point, is we've got,

look at all these contracts we've set up. You can use the yuan for oil, for grains. you can buy your Pokemon with it. I mean, you can't, but that's the idea, right? We'll work at all this stuff, right? Okay. Now we want you to use the one. Well, okay, well, here's the gold that, all that gold that we all have been in this big pile.

Let's put it under one network in different places. And it's better to know. I'm sorry? Build trust. I don't know if I'm going to summarize this right. So this is where you can just interject. But you know, like, as I get older, you start to realize, like, things just don't happen overnight, right? So, like, you know, you're talking about trying to move off of the American dollar and getting out of the treasuries and all the things that make, and I'm oversimplifying this, my apologies. But, like, you know, that really back the United States as the global superpower, the, the currency that is of choice pretty much everywhere in the world. Everybody looks at at a U.S. dollar and goes, I trust that.

right i just and so then everything goes down with swift russia ukraine and and that sends a shockwave across the world of like holy crap look at what they just did and so then the offshoot of that what's been happening in the background and not in the background because it's just on the other side of the the planet so for a guy sitting in alberta you just don't see it every day you don't even think about it every day right it's just life goes on and what's happening is the slow movement and we're in such the early stages of it away from the U.S. being able to control everything because they did it to themselves

by what they've done to Russia and, I'm sure, others. And so now you have, in July, another step in the process, which is China trying to make their currency attractive to people and by attractive, I mean trust it, that it actually is worth the paper it's printed on, essentially. And by doing that or trying to showcase that, you're saying they have all this goal. And they're going to find ways to put it in a few different countries to show, hey, trust us.

We're not going to, we're not going to, we're trying to build out a currency that you can trust. I hope I'm, am I summarizing that relatively correct? Please. You said it better than I did. That's right. I'm going to take this transcript and say, that's the story. Yeah, exactly. That's it. You summarized it perfectly. It's about building trust and, uh, interesting. internationalizing their currency and using gold to do it. So if you're a gold guy, you love gold, is this a good thing for your gold or a bad thing for your gold?

Well, I mean, your knee-jerk reaction is it's a good thing, right? And it is a good thing. There's no real pushback. What I want to what I want to be clear is I could throw water on things as a risk manager with gold more than any other asset. even more than silver, more than any other asset. The last thing, so I'm bullish on gold because it's, but not price spike, Coco, invidia bullish. It's like, I'm telling you, there's an 80% chance of a $1,000 increase as opposed to a 5%

chance of a $20,000 increase. Mathematically, it's the same number, but, you know, slow and steady wins the race. We've had a pretty tarred run. So anyway, to be clear on that, the gold market price is the last thing to move when there's demand in the market. So when demand hits the market, the first thing that happens to gold

is not that price goes up, it's that they find someone to borrow it from. They rob Peter to pay Paul. And so you never see it in the price. It's under the surface. So they want the gold. The gold gets repatriated. All of a sudden, there's not as much gold in the vault.

The price hasn't moved, but the vault is empty. And then the lease rates go up. Then all this shit happens. And then the price moves. So the news that you and I are talking about here, the information, the truth, the fact of it, takes years to manifest. You know, China's been de-dollarized and bonds since 2009. more aggressively since 2020. But gold didn't catch fire until 2022.

So these things that make me foolish gold make me have a very high certainty of a move of X. They don't make me say there's going to be a chance that it's going to move 10 times X. So the water that I'm throwing on this is not to go out there and buy it, you know, because you think price will reflect what we're talking about here in five minutes? No. You don't think the U.S. is looking at that? So, no, it's going to take time. But it's the best performing asset in the world. You know, maybe Bitcoin's

doing better this year. That's another conversation. But it's the best performing asset, more than stocks. And that's a reflection of the word, reshick gets thrown around a lot, but that's what it is. Gold's being revalued in the world, and U.S. dollar is weakening against gold. I hope that helps. Yeah, and it does. And I think what you're pointing out, I always think of, I don't know what, I'm a hockey guy, but I think of soccer.

It's like one team is trying to score on the goal, and it's like, but there's another team and they're going to push back, and that's China, the U.S., and I mean, those are just the countries that come to mind. So as you point out, the U.S. knows what's going on. You don't think they're just going to sit, or do you think they're just going to sit there and not play? No, they're going to play. They're going to do things to try and counteract what China's doing. Yeah.

I mean, the hockey analogy is great, though. It's like a neutral zone. China's in the neutral zone, but they have the puck. You know, so you don't really, your goaltender is still probably sweeping the ice out there, like pooping around, like taking a drink of water. They cross the blue line and it's over. He's got to pay attention. So, yeah, I mean, that's true.

It's a, it's, um, yeah, soccer is more boring than hockey, you know, or football. Well, the reason I think of soccer, honestly, the reason I think of soccer is because I, I guess I should look at a stat of this, how many passes a team does before they ever get a chance on that. Right. Right. It's such a, it's such a slow moving strategy game, right? Ball possession and you just pass around. Oh, and then you get, oh, and then it goes back to the other. Whereas hockey, you dump in, you crash it, elbows up, boom, you hammer somebody, you poke it up front.

It's a little fast moving. And when I watch this game play out, I'm like every time you think something giant is about to happen, it's like, no, they pass the ball back. And you're like, why are they doing that? And it's just a slow movement of a game, which to me equates to soccer. Okay, I'll correct myself then. I understand what you're saying because, yeah, it's a much more of a chess game. And I say it's boring. That's because I'm America.

It's not boring. You have to understand the game. When I'm watching in Argentina, it's a lot of fun because they go the game and the teaching me. But yeah, you're right. It's not two steps forward, one step back. It's two steps forward and a step and a half back. And it takes years to happen. Yeah, you're right.

It's a very slow-moving, intense geopolitical chess game that we're in right now. That's a good point. I agree. When you look at the price of gold, just on gold, because I want to ask you about silver. you brought up silver and I brought up silver before we started, but just hanging on gold for one more second. Like people were asking, they wanted to ask Martin on stage and then, you know, we got sidetracked on different conversations. With gold, like you see the all-time highs right now and you go, well, there's a 5% chance that goes up this and there's an 80% chance that goes up that. Like when you look at gold and you go, you extrapolate over like the next 10 years, what do you see gold getting to?

And I know that's probably a very difficult question because there's no reason putting out an actual price. But like, I'm just curious. Like lots of people in different realms talk about all these astronomical figures. And I'm like, oh, can I get to that? I mean. Right. Yeah. I think you want me to do a 10 year?

Because a 10 year will give me a lot more. Sure. Over the next 10 years. That would have scared me, Vince. in 2021 because I was shocked at like, is this going to take three months? You know, it's going to take,

you know, like, because I want things to happen fast. And as the more I do this and talk to people, I'm coming to the terms with, you know, over the course of my life, what the world is going to look like.

You know, you're starting to see things in a broader sense or look at it in a bigger picture and you're seeing these moves and how it's going to the ripple effects and how long the ripple effects take. And so, no,

10 year, yeah, Okay, so, I mean, that's a serious exercise. So let me think for a second here while I do that. I'm trying to figure out the major drivers for the next 10 years. And the major, I mean, again, this is really, I've thought about this a lot, but I haven't concluded yet. So that's it. It put me on the spot.

So let me think about this. All right. There are two diverging, I'm thinking out loud, two diverging drivers. diverging drivers. One is, the U.S. needs to reduce its deficit, and so it needs to spend less.

And it needs to shore up the dollar to protect it and to make America great again and all that goes with that. Whether it's successful or not, we still can't spend as much. So the U.S., in gold terms, is in a race to pull dollars

out of the market as people are dumping them while not crashing our economy at the same time. I'm going to call that a net neutral, assuming that we know what we're doing. But what's not a net neutral is even though we seem to be interested in reducing our debt, Europe and China must spend more. Now, we need to spend more now, too, right, for infrastructure and all that stuff. But Europe and China need to spend a lot more. Here's what I mean. China is a museum. And we're not spending money on the military overseas. So we're going to close bases.

We're going to bring, what's called, Tax Americana home, all that Monroe Doctrine, worry about our buddies to the north and our buddies to the south. Remember, bad cop, and then good cop, like we talked about before. Let's make that, let's make it a team one way or another. And Europe's like, oh, shit. See, I'm giving you the inflation scenario. going to happen. Europe is going to go like this. How much did Europe use to spend on its military budget? Call it zero. It's not zero, call it zero. Why? Because we were putting all the missiles there.

We benefited from that too, but we're putting all the missiles there. And now, and because of that, Europe had this great welfare state. Socialism, it's not black and white, but one of the main reasons that the welfare state and socialist democracy concepts in Europe worked so well is because it was on the back of our defense. Okay? And I'm not saying this as a proud American, all right? I'm just saying that's just the way it is. We spent the money on defense and Europe spent money on keeping people happy because communism

was over there, you know? Well, I mean, just take a look at Canada. Canada, proud Canadian. I mean, that's a whole conversation on this side now with a lot of different things happening in our country. But why did we get to do what we've been doing? Because we've always looked at our big brother to the south and went, well, if anybody ever attacks us,

the US will come in and hammer them with the big old hammer. So we've never had to meet our spending budget on NATO ever. I mean, I forget how long you have to go back, but it is a long freaking time. Because it's just like, what does it matter? The U.S. is going to take care of us. Yeah, Canada is a better example, but I haven't studied the Canadian example. But Canada is the better example.

The problem with Canada is we create problems that aren't exactly there. The United States doesn't give enough value. Canada adds value geographically, geopolitically, geopolitically to the United States. Europe doesn't. You know, it's like a big fucking buffer zone for a war. Yes. Yeah, that's so much, but the other reason is, I mean, yeah, Canada is the better, count is the better example.

Like, you know, it's the, it's the Jack Nicholson scene, you know, you need me on that wall type of shit, you know, that type of stuff. And the thing is, you could see the map. I mean, if you Google the stories or AI the stories, it's there. Europe's countries have all been recommended to now spend 5% of their GDP on military. That's money they used to spend on social. safety net. That's money on social programs. Now you've got your, again, I'm making the case for gold going a lot higher. Now you've got all of Europe which just experienced a bazillion immigrants

coming in, right? Culture clash, a social safety net that's creaking and breaking from all the people that need to use it, you know, welfare recipients, whether they need it or not, that's the way it is, you know. You've got to catch these people. Easy to do. when everyone is white and Swedish, you know, white and German. That's what you do when you're trying to be a melting pot. So they do that. They're spending 5% on military. They're also spending more money on, in general,

they have to become self-sufficient. But in this new error, you have to be self-sufficient. It's a mercantiless type of error. You need to, you know, Germany let all their manufacturing go. Now they're going to have to build it back up. And then they still have to spend money on the social safety. that Europe Western Europe is like in its USSR collapse moment where where they have this huge safety net and now I have to spend on their spending on military

so it's almost like the Euro goes to I give you the example the Euro goes to zero exaggerating hyperbolic Euro goes to zero the dollar gets stronger Gold goes up to $8,000 in U.S. dollars, but in euros it goes up to like 20. I'm getting at it. It's like we're not spending as much. Like the U.S. for the last, say, 20 years since the great financial crisis, we've been hiding, you know, whitewashing the problems by spending money. And the rest of the world has been like watching us.

Now we're done spending, simplifying it, and now they got to spend. China, China's got to spend. China's got to spend because they have all this manufacturing, and it's sitting empty. Your comment about silver, it's sitting empty. Nobody's buying their things. And if they don't start spending money on their own people, giving them money to go out and buy stuff,

if they don't encourage them to stop being savers, like Gus out of the Great Depression, they're done. So they need to find a new customer, and that means they have to spend money. Europe needs to just stop being a museum and reinvent itself. In the U.S., we say we're not spending money. We're going to spend money. This is not the way we did. We're not going to spend it over there.

We're going to spend it over here. So we're going to have secular tailwinds pushing inflation up, something that I used to call the anti-Goldilocks. That means you're going to have money that needs to be spent. That good inflation, for lack of a better word, we need to build factors, need to buy raw materials in Europe, right? In China, we need to spend money on social safety. You know, China's got the worst social safety net in the world. When they left communism, no, or theoretically they didn't leave communism, they just like, they have nothing. Like, people just like die, you know.

I mean, they don't have the social safety net that Europe has, let's put it that way. Even though they were communist, they cut that shit off when they started going, capital. They're in the process of respending on that. I just read a great report on it by Lori Green on that effect. But anyway, so they're spending on their social safety net. You're spending on manufacturing, and we're spending on trying to figure out what kind of things we can make to sell. So, well, materials get bought. All these things get bought. And unless we have free energy, which, you know, it could happen. Doreen reactors. I'm not going to say fusion, but people talked about it.

Unless we get that, it's going to go up because there will be two currencies in the world. One will be the U.S. dollar, simplifying it, and the U.S. dollar will be all about upside. And the other will be the Chinese yuan, gold back indirectly, and that will be all about safety. So we are going to need gold. Canada and the U.S. will need gold to be traded with China,

and China will need dollars to be trade with China. with the U.S. and the western hemisphere. And you just need to have gold. You can't. Gold's money. And so more people need more money. You know, it's like, you know, you can look at M2. People look at M2, people that, I should do the math.

I don't do the math anymore. Maybe I should. People look at M2. 8,000 is my number. And that number is borrowed from a technician, Michael Oliver, who basically says, you know, eight times the move, right? And I think it's a conservative number. Ten years.

Ten years, right? Not ten minutes. Ten years. Twenty thousand. Why not? You know, why not? It doesn't think I'm just throwing it out there. I'm not.

It's like, you know, monetary, if we go multi-polas and everyone's going to have to have gold, the float of money out there, the amount of debt. The debt's not going away. So you're simultaneously going to see stocks involved go up for a long time, not tomorrow, but, you know, I mean, I'm a believer that $8,000 is not a problem. I'm a believer that $5,000 is not a problem by 2028, right? So people that are like gold bugs are like, and I'm a gold bug. They're like, ah, that's not much, but shut up. It went from $1,700 to $3,000 in four years. shut up, you know. It's gold. It's not going to fix you economically. It's going to protect you economically, et cetera, et cetera. So that's my answer. Well, I just, I just, I think of how many new

gold bugs have been built because of COVID, right? I mean, um, that's in the West. I mean, that's in the West. In the East, they're 20 year olds are gold bugs. You know, we're all crypto, all our kids are crypto kids, they're going out buying gold beauties. Like, it's crazy. It's like, test to them. Anyway, I just, yeah, like, to me, you're watching this conversation, you know, like, if you go back, yeah, I don't know, you'd know this better than I would, Vince, but you go back to where, is it 10 years ago, is it 20 years ago?

What's the word? The popularization of gold is that, to me, all-time highs. Like it's only people start learning about it more and more. You know, if you would ask me what Fiat meant five years ago, I would have no idea, right? And yet that in itself, all those things, people are just learning about it. That's why riding around with Martin Armstrong was so fascinating. He started talking about currencies and different.

And I was just like, this is so fascinating. If you would have asked Sean, a five year younger, Sean, that question, I would have been like, what's the point? What does it matter? And that is a repercussion of what? what they did during COVID. One of the many repercussions that started to reframe this different world

and different people and different groups of people looking at this. So with gold and silver, precious metals, like people are staring at this way different. And that's always been the case, but not at such a level as what's happened over the last couple of years. So when you talk the next 10 years,

I just see more adoption of it, not less. Like there's going to be way more adoption of gold. You can see what bricks, is pushing and I mean they're doing it for their own reasons but over here in the West I see more regular everyday people adopting gold and silver and that's only going to increase demand like or the demand is increasing every single day I think uh you know you bring up a point that that that I want to I want to I want to uh corroborate in reverse I mean you're describing genera generation awareness increasing. So while you and I can look at the screen and go, it's overbought,

everybody's talking about it. Yeah, for next five minutes, next five weeks, next five months, but generationally, people are changing their values. And so it goes from esoteric and abstract, yeah, right? We didn't even know what the out was 20 years ago, you know, like you're saying, you know, We go from esoteric and abstract to concrete and stable. We go from secular liberal orthodoxy to, you know what, ethics tied to religion aren't really a bad idea. So there's a pendulum swing generationally coming

and gold is at the heart of that. And the reverse of that, When I was a kid, it was the end of the gold era. So you were coming out of it too. You're younger than me, but I got to see the whole stagulation part of it. But what happened was after World War II, everyone freaked out and they said, gold, we have to be safe. And that was smart.

And then after 1971 coming off the gold standard, a long-term generational, multi-generational things started to happen. The government, by getting the Saudis to accept dollars, by placing oil and dollars, by getting now to accept dollars for trade, by starting the whole Chinese-American trade thing, by allowing people, by telling people slowly, the dollars is good as gold. The dollar is good as gold. Separating gold from a dollar, right? You had to have gold. Then you had to have a dollar that promised your gold. Then they took the gold away.

That was 20, 30 years of slow generational mind-changing that came along with neo-keygienism. And now that's gone as far as it can go and we're saying, wait a minute, that doesn't work anymore. We borrowed too much. We've spent too much. You know, we've given people in charge of the money too much latitude. They've abused it. Let's pull it back. Because that's how World War II started.

You know, I mean, it's one of the things, the debasing of money, the debasing of morality, the debasing of ethics, the debasing of your fellow men, you know, it's like, I don't care what happens to you. Those are the things that slowly happened simultaneously with us going on the Fiat and going on the Neo-Kingean and real liberal mindset. mind you, it was excellent for years. And in 2009, 2008, a financial crisis,

that was the morning bell. And we knew that, China knew that, and to your point about generational changes, in 2016, you know, China started making the changes culturally that you and I were talking about. China started encouraging religion. For them, the religion is Confucianism. Confucianism is that they weren't like that for years.

They were malice, you know, revolution, don't respect your elders. Like they were crazy for a while there, you know. Then they went Confucianism. And the Confucianism is respect your elders. You know, stay in your lane. Think of the long term. China culturally changed themselves to adapt or adopt Confucianism, kind of like we had a Protestant work at.

And so they went stable, less abstract. And it took a generation. What's the greatest economic miracle in the world? This is the changing of the Chinese. 50 years ago, these people were eating tree bark and they were a foot shorter. No, that took 20, 34 years. And now we're a little shorter. We're a little poorer.

And, you know, thank God we're eating Cheetos. But it's the same idea, you know, reading shit. And so now to your point, we're slowly moving towards a generational change. And I think you're right. I think that wakes people up to gold and silver and Bitcoin as well. That's right. Yeah, generational change. I think you just, you know, you were complimented me earlier on how I summarize something.

Generational change, Vince, I think that's a very interesting way to put it. I'm going to have to think on that for a bit. I'm assuming part of the audience is going to think on it, too. because it's you're seeing this change and everybody wants I want I you know you just want you just want to snap the fingers and you know you got the you got the the magic lantern you know you rub it and you ask for your wish and boom everything changes but like it doesn't happen that way it's it's very slow and at times really methodical on how change um plays out if if i don't ask about silver before you have you out of here though I'm going to kick myself right you uh you've written like

I was telling you before we started, I watched, now this is a couple years ago, I want to assume, I forget when I watched it, but it was talking about bargain by silver compared to gold prices. It was skyrocketing up and that silver was going to chase it. And you had your thoughts on that. Silver. I, like, I've enjoyed silver. What are your thoughts on silver, where it sits today? And one of the things that you put out on X was, Now, I don't know if this is muddling the issue, but I'll add it in and you can just do it as you want. You said China's solar panels will become a source of silver now on the market. Watch closely. Everything they do is going to be outlawed in the U.S. The idea is to make them financially weak so that they sell their valuable assets. Pay attention. Now, I don't know if that adds into the silver conversation.

You can do it if you want. It's directly related. It's directly related. I traded silver before I traded gold. And not just saying that, I, I, I, I, I, own physically more silver than gold, but for some more money in gold, because that's the nature of it. There are currently, and I don't mean like the next five minutes, I mean like for the last three years, there's a mechanical thing that happens in the market that continually depresses silver, and it's because it's profitable for banks and traders to do this.

It's a carry train without getting too technical on it. It kind of goes like this. Gold is precious. You only use it for money. It's too expensive to use for anything else. Copper is industrial. We use it to wire things. What's silver?

We, people like you and me, say, silver is the best of both worlds. I say it's gold in. I say, it's gold in. I say, silver is going to be an increasing industrial demand demand as time goes on and as gold goes up it's going to be even more important as a substitute for gold because there's just not enough gold that's my silver thesis then the central banks say we want gold why don't they want silver they don't want silver because it's industrial if people are using

silver then they can't get their hands on it so they stop buying so nobody buys silver traders know this i know this as a trader banks know this central banks know this and they say, well, isn't shown, and look at silver as like the best of both worlds. We look at it as something that really doesn't have a personality, everything else is specific. So we're going to buy gold,

and we're going to say, well, silver is semi-precious to them. To them, it's how they operate, right? Semi-precious, we'll sell silver as a hedge against the gold. And this stuff that people don't talk to, I did this as a trader. You buy one and you sell the other because if gold goes down, you want to be hedged with silver. And if the economy does better, silver will go up. So if you think there's going to be a recession, you sell silver and buy gold. Not to mention when you put these mechanical trades on, the margin overlaps.

So thousands of trades go down, buying one and selling the other. And it goes the other way as well. And so for years, decades, people have looked at silver as a sourcing metal for gold. You know, how do you get silver?

Well, you can get a lot of it from heat leeching, from lead, from other base metals. In fact, grouped with base metals when you look for it in the earth, a lot, not always, but a lot. So the banks,

and this is where it gets crazy, and this is why it goes up, when it goes up. The banks say silver we don't care about it. We can get it anywhere. And they rely on this constant silver being mine. What ends up happening is there isn't enough mines. And so they start buying it from each other and we have these big nothing and then ridiculous spikes because the market is too rely on easy silver and then easy silver dries up. And the buying in gold, is not translating to silver for two reasons right now.

One is I just described to. The other is the world, believe it or not, even though there's all this debt, the world is on the brink of a potential recession because they're not spending enough right now. It's crazy to say, but Europe needs to spend more. The U.S. needs to spend more. China needs to spend more to raise the whole thing.

And because it's not spending more, people are worried about recession right now. And because they're worried about recession, they're not buying silver. Now, on top of that, the solar panel thing is a two-sided coin. Should I go into that, the China solar panel thing? Yeah, please do. Silver is, I'm not going to, silver's precious, but I don't want to use the word precious. I'm going to speak as if I'm China.

Silver is a critical mineral. Yes, it's precious. in a pinch we'll use it as that. But it's this critical mineral that has the best electrical conductivity, the best reflectivity, and we cannot figure out a way to substitute for it. It's like you can't substitute for oil when it comes down to it.

It's the king. Oil is the king for MMBQ, maybe natural gas, depending how you look at it. So China says we want silver. We're going to make silver panels and we're going to sell them to the rest of the world. Right now There's a little nuance in here too about the industry itself when you big making silver panels

You know So the panels are not going away. Okay, let's be clear about that. You know, maybe windmills will go away or all this other nonsense But solar panels are going to get better and better So in the beginning the problem with solar panels is that the industry before I get it to the whole metal thing The beginning solar panels are all about we need more electricity So let's use more silver. Right? So they're going to use more silver, use higher quality.

It's all about top line growth. We want to have better productivity. And then when it gets to a certain point, down the road, they'll start trying to figure out ways to use less silver. A little aluminum in there, a little bit more silicone. And you start looking to cut costs, right? But we're not there yet. What's happened now is because of the reason,

that's what's going to happen down the road. There'll be cost cuts. in silver which means less silver is used per panel which means the panels go down in price which means more panels get bought so there's a balancing effect that will kind of like a car every four events a car that everyone can buy and so the demand goes up for the materials that go into the car that's the idea here but between now and then there's this trade war and now we go to that that that post that tweak that i had China owns, it's astounding, China owns 85% of the global solar panel supply chain.

Okay, supply chain, pull it out of the ground, I mean, they get silver for muscle. Pull the silver out of the ground, silver supply chain, here we go for solar. Pull it out of the ground, filter it. After you filter it, you're refining. After you refine it, you make it into a powder. After you make it into a powder, you make it into a paste. After you make it to a paste, you slather it on. After you make it into a piece of a pound, you make it into a whole panel. If you make it a panel, you ship it, you install it, and move it.

That whole supply chain 20 years ago, China didn't have anything except pulling it out of the ground. Now they have everything except powder. Japan has the powder market. Making powder is really hard to do. Yeah, they've got some really good stuff, And they'll probably do it too. So China's got this whole industry now.

They went from this digging holes and pulling silver out. They're going, oh, refine it, re-refine it, get the powder, get it to someone, have it back through the powder, make it into a paste, spread it on, optimize it, mechanize it, do DuPont stuff with it. And now you make these solar panels. You say, okay, here are the solar panels. And the U.S. is like, uh-uh, we're not buying them. Trade Warren, we're not buying them.

That's what's going to happen. We're not going to sit. It could be a train where we, oh, there's a chip in there that makes them spy. Maybe they are spire. I would not doubt it. But in a world that's de-globalizing, you become very protectionist. So the U.S. puts a fence up and says no Chinese solar panels.

And by no Chinese solar panels, do you mean no Chinese solar panels, or you mean they're going to make them not cost effective? They're putting tariffs on them so that when people go to buy them, it's like, well, I can't afford that. That's what you mean by no, correct? Well, no, I mean, I mean, speaking as an American trade person, I don't know how we're going to do it. I don't know how we're going to get to the world to accept how we're doing it, but we're going to do it. I'll be friends with them. Tariffs will negotiate it back down.

Are we any with them? To the fact of being in war, we embargo it, like Iran. Are we somewhere in the middle? we'll keep making excuses. Non-tariff trade barriers. You know, it's like, you know what? Pete's coffee. It's good coffee, but we have an FDA standard.

No, you can't use Pete's coffee. And then it negotiated. It becomes a big problem. It's a slowdown. It's like go to the back of the line. Go to the back in the line. So in the U.S., it's very easy. And by the way, I want to do make it about security.

The since the repatriation of an onshore and reshoring of supply chain and domesticating manufacturing has become key again, it's very easy to do the following. All you have to say is national security because it's a critical, critical metal, right? It's a critical metal, but the US is using it at everything, right? Oh, well, we have to protect our steel industry. We can't depend on foreign steel like we did in the 70s, right? So tariffs. We won't import Japanese steel.

Well, maybe we will if you build a factory here. Maybe we will if you throw some money in here. We'll do all those things. But with China, it's like we're in the process of divorcing them permanently. You know, maybe it won't be permanent, but we're in the process of that. So it's like one at a time we want to tick out their economy. So who are they going to sell solar panels to? what the uh the uh the the the the salafis in that in in the in iran wahavis i'm sorry that's probably

it's probably suing that's not like who we're going to sell it to at that price you're not you're not and so how's trying to go to sell a five hundred dollars solar panel it cost them to make for two thousand dollars in the u.s if we won't buy yeah you lose your biggest consumer yeah the customer's always right in this case You know, and it doesn't always work the way, but right now the balance is like we're betting as United States is betting and could be winning. You know, I'm very friendly. I love what China has been economically, but let's be clear, they need to figure out a way to get replacement customers for us. We're their biggest customer.

That's not healthy. They need to leave us too. So they have to figure out a way to replace that. And that means giving their people money to spend to create that. So the customer is always right now. Manufacturing-wise, we're dead, but we're working with it. So we're betting, we meaning the United States, and the West in general, is betting that we can fix our manufacturing before they train their people to buy stuff.

That's it. So to bring this back to silver, right? Because that's what we're going. Right? I've got to bring this from the silver. So let's pretend you have all these solar panels with silver in them. And let's pretend it's not going to happen tomorrow, but let's pretend for some reason China,

what's going to happen is they're not going to buy us. I'm not saying this is happening, but they won't buy as much silver. They are going to buy as much silver because they're not just buying it for solar. They're buying it for military. You're buying it for investment. It's a critical medal. They understand this.

You know, China used to produce a shit ton of, silver she's my french again but they don't produce as much anymore they're importing remember they're digging out of the ground and make stuff yeah they're buying it from mexico it's frequently through chili whatever in latin america they built these supply chains because they're running out of silver domestically so now you've got china all these solar panels they can't sell to anyone doughties aren't going to buy it Brazilians aren't going to buy it there's only so many deserts you can put them in right i mean i'm simplifying it but what are they going to do let's pretend number one they'll stop buying silver because they don't have any demand they have all this inventory to

sell two maybe they'll start selling so maybe we'll start selling solar panels this is where the banks make their money and i'm not saying i'm saying this general it's how it works right so it becomes a scrap thing so let's pretend that there's a million solar panels in the u.s made China, right? Canada, U.S., solar panels, and the U.S. says, no, national security. That's your reason. You're not going to have solar panels from China anymore, not unless we approve them one out of times and slow it down, right? Yeah. Not unless they, I don't know, you know, stop threatening Taiwan. Like all these things are in motion now, right? So what happens in the U.S.? All the solar panels get ripped down. Government does it. It's all the time. Government destroys.

or intervenes and interrupts a momentum all the solar panels get ripped out who's making solar panels now you know musk you right so he can make solar city once is this you know it's brilliant you think about like Tesla the battery the solar panel the car is like the house and now you have this whole vertically integrated industry so who's ready to make American solar panel? Well, he is, where's you going to get the silver? Oh, my God, they're going to get them from the panels that were stripping out. And who gets the panels that they're stripping out?

Goldman Sachs, C.P. Morgan, Morgan Stanley, they get involved in the scrap business. That's how it works. You go to a junkyard, a metaphorical junkyard. You say, what are you going to do for the silver panel? And you get some money back. It's government. It's like its best is removed, you know? Simplifying.

But that's what it is, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What? No, no, no. I'm following along. Yeah, yeah. To me, it's, you know, for the, the listener who didn't, you said it kind of in passing, but one of the things you were talking about was national security, right?

They're going to say national security because that's such a broad blanket. And what they're doing with that is they're saying there's a chip that's spying on you and all these solar panels and you go, whether that's true or not, it doesn't matter, it's going to send a shockwave through the U.S. going, oh, man, they're spying. We can't use those. Who could we use? And you're pointing, well, we got this nice, shiny guy named Elon Musk, who's going to start building it. And we're going to turn this whole industry into scrap it, pulling the silver routes,

so we can redistribute that through Elon Musk. And he's going to make you, and you can still have your solar panels. We're just going to make him American made. And the banks are going to get involved because there's going to be money. And you're just changing the framework of the, American consumer from we want what the supply chain is already there. We're going to disrupt it. We're going to slow it down.

We're going to make it very difficult, which is going to annoy everybody. Plus, you throw in national security. So now everybody's a little skeptical. And you just slide it over. Just slide it over. And there's this nice, shiny new object there that's ready to solve all your problems and wait. It's, it's American made.

And it can get to you real fast. And it's going to be nice and simple. And it takes your supply chain that China has built over the course of however many years, but you pointed out again, Vince, by having one customer, this was always the risk because when they stop, now you go, oh crap, we got to find somebody that wants this, but that's a problem because it's not oil and gas. It's a solar panel, which is not exactly every country's top of the list to get energy, even if they tell us it is. That's perfectly said.

I should just call you with stuff and ask you to say it for me. That's right. That's exactly right. You know, there's a, we were talking about the 70s and 80s speculation. To segue into that because it's the same thing. In the 70s, in fact, in fact, in the 70s and 80s, foreign countries were selling cars. that had better gas models, Volkswagen Bug, right? The original beetle and all those little tiny Japanese cars when they came out.

And the US was like VH and these big, you know, cars, and no one could afford them. And so what did the US do? The US restricted the import of those cars by putting tariffs on it. And they said to the US car manufacturers, we're protecting you, start making better cars. smaller cars so you got you know some good small cars and you got some bad small cars we made a small car called the Pinto and the US companies like well would be protected the price of that of that Japanese car goes up five hundred dollars coming into our border we'll charge four hundred ninety dollars more for us what do

you get inflation see the solar silver that's going to be sold isn't going to be sold and hit the market like that it's going to be bought by the next manufacture and the prices are going to go up for things. So you end up buying a Ford Pinto, right? It's not Chinese made, but I don't know if you're familiar with the Ford Pinto blew up when it got a taxes. It had like a big gas tank in the back that was like, anyway, the point is there's precedent for this.

You protect your industry, you help your industry, and if your industry doesn't right, as I think Musk probably would do it right, for the most important things, you substitute. So must becomes the buyer of silver, right? JP Morgan goes out and gets it for them. These are what they do, these physical, these bags, like JP Morgan, especially, they deal in physical silver. Where do you think China gets it silver? Doesn't buy on the Comax.

JP Morgan goes out and goes, you, you're a miner, you're a client of ours. Got me silver? Got a pile over there from a heat bleaching, we'll take it. Goes to China. Silver is so under the radar. And by the way, this is why silver remains depressed because the banks bet on the cyclicality of the economy. Silver is hot, okay?

We're going to have to do something to camp it down. We'll sell more futures. The economy's coming off, okay. And we'll just wait for it to come up. We'll wait for the retail investor to sell it. Right? We'll wait for a solar panel to go out of business. We'll wait for this to happen.

will take over a silver mine that default. That's why silver does it. And silver has it. We'll have it staying in the sun. I think there's, here, I'll do a good note. Last year after the bricks, after the Bricks summit, Russia announced that they were going to start buying silver. And they didn't call it a critical medal.

It was a critical. They were like, we're going to buy all these metals, and we're adding silver now. We all all the silver people at my story, I did that, you know. He's just a central bank that's used to buy silver all the time. But now Russia's buying again. I think, knock on wood, I think this year, I said it before, and I'm not sure, I would not be surprised if we'd come out of the bricks meeting this year where the bricks start saying, and you know what?

Silver is even more important than we told you before. And we're going to start flying it. And I could see that happening. So I believe silver goes from a critical metal below the radar to a critical metal above the radar on the bricks list. So I'm a buyer, right? I'm a buyer. I just bought gold and silver about physical, about six months of that. That's my last, my most recent purchase.

Actually, three months ago. I booked gold at 3,100 of silver in that area where it was, you know, silver was very volatile in that price. That's it. So, yeah, I think it's, uh, that's it's not, oh, Vince, I appreciate you coming on and doing this and, uh, um, hopefully 2026 for Cornerstone attendees. We'll have a Vince Lanchie on the card. Uh, all the best and look forward to the next time you hop on. Thank you so much. And, uh, hello everyone out there. And thank you again.