Shaun Newman Podcast - #86 - Mark Letestu

Episode Date: June 10, 2020

Born in Saskatoon SK, I think it's safe to say we all know Mark from his days growing up in Elk Point AB.    He was undrafted & played his Junior 'A' with the Bonnyville Pontiacs. During his final season he led the AJHL in scoring & was the league MVP. He played one season for Western Michigan NCAA Div 1 & then signed in 2007 with the Pittsburgh Penguins. He has since spent 10 years in the NHL playing 567 games split between Pittsburgh, Columbus, Edmonton & currently Winnipeg. His mindset on understanding his role as a 12th forward is humbling & a very interesting chat.    All episodes can also be found on Apple podcasts, Youtube & Spotify   New guests every Monday & Wednesday

This is Mark Letestu, and welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Happy hump day, folks. Back at it again, I'd put out on Twitter that I was having Ryan Papuano on today, the head coach of the Brooks Bandits. It's been postponed due to a couple technical difficulties. So we're going to get that this weekend, so no worries that's coming up next week. So today we had a little bit of fun. We had NHLer Mark Lettestu on the show.

And before we get into the tail of tape on him, let's get to our sponsors of today's program. Gartner Management, the home of the Sean Newman podcast, is a Lloydminster-based company, specializing in all types of rental properties to help meet your needs, whether you're looking for a small office or a 6,000 square foot commercial space, give Wade Gartner a call at 780808, 5025. How about Maz Entertainment?

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Would love to get you involved with the show. Just look for the link. Send me a quick email. We got lots of different options and I want to find something that can work for the both of us. So I look forward to hearing from you. Now, on to the tale of the tape. Originally from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, he moved to the young age to where I think we all remember him, Elk Point, Alberta.

He went undrafted and played his junior A with the Bonneville Ponniacs. In his 20-year-old season, he led the league in scoring and earned the H.L MVP. He spent one year at Western Michigan, NCAA Division I, and in that year, he got rookie of the year. And signed with Pittsburgh Penguins on March 22nd, 2007. and since then he's amassed 567 games 93 goals, 117 assists, 210 points,

while playing with Pittsburgh Penguins, the Columbus Blue Jackets, the Emmington Oilers, and now currently the Winnipeg Jets. Of course, I'm talking about Mark Letestu, so buckle up, because here we go. Okay, well, welcome to the Sean Newman podcast.

Tonight I'm joined by Mark Letestu, elk points, Mark Lettestu, and I appreciate you first off joining me. Yeah, no, this is, again, new experience for me, first-time podcasters. So I'm excited to see where this goes. Well, I thought it was cool today. You were nominated for the Bill Masterton Memorial Trophy.

I assume that's quite the honor. Yeah, I mean, I'm not up for many NHL awards. So this one will probably be the only one. So it is a cool honor. It sucks that seems like you've got to go through something. you know something negative to get nominated uh that being said i've stuck around long enough to to be nominated and i think that's you know when they talk about the dedication the perseverance and some of the details of the award i think i fit that and then my the longevity of my career uh probably

fits that too i think a lot of people took the under on my career so i think i'm uh i'm doing all right so to get this award's uh pretty cool well that's what makes your story so interesting is because you are, you got some battle scars on how you got there and how you've stuck there. And I think that was what makes a great story. Yeah, I think it's, it's certainly the road less travel. And I think if you go more locally, Alberta, when you start talking junior B, you know, when you're from the Lloyd Minsters and the Bonnevilles and all points, you understand what that league is. you know, when you're playing in the NHL and people say tier two, they kind of look at you funny.

Like, what's that league? You know, where's Bonneville? But you tell them, there's a step under that. You're playing in St. Paul, you know, playing Junior B. It's a long road. It's fun. It's a good story to tell and to explain to the guys exactly where that is and what it entails and the bus rides and whatnot. So it's a lot of fun to have that as kind of my backstory.

Well, let's start there then. Why don't you tell the listeners kind of, I mean, I was listening to an interview of you today and you were talking about Lindberg and the lady interviewing, I damn near laugh my ass off when, because she's just kind of looking at you, you know, days like, what is that or where is that? And I mean, everybody in this community knows exactly where that is. But what was early life like? What, I heard you talk about your dad having an outdoor rink and you playing at the Lindberg arena, I assume. That's one for sure I'd never played at, but maybe the early days, Mark, just, you know, what it took at the beginning. Yeah, well, and, you know, I, I'm from Elk Point, but I'm not, I'm not born in there. You know, I moved to Elk Point when I was probably 12 years old. So I'm a Saskatoon, and dad's in the oil field, always has been. So he's bounced us around quite a bit. And out point just seemed to be our, our sticking point. So, you know, the Lindbergh ice rink, that's, I mean, you're looking for any kind of ice.

We have one rink and out point. It's full, you know, right from after school till, you know, the later hours of the night. And that's, you know, every. And it's, you know, I think that the story was about, you know, outdoor experiences, you know, probably going into the heritage game, you know, they want to talk about your outdoors. experiences and what you've done and growing up. And, you know, Lindberg was just always, you know, again, the salt plants there. It's this town, no more than 25 people live there.

It's basically propped up by the salt plant and the people that commute in and out. But it's, you just play it all night. And there was this one non-heated shack. You put your skates on and you walk through the snow and gravel and you pick up Knicks. But it didn't matter because the ice was terrible. You played with tennis balls. It was just fun. And I feel like that's where you probably develop some skills,

you know, hockey hand-eye. And then it gets dark. You got to pull the trucks up to get the lights on. So you just played all night. And there was so many injuries, guys taking, you know, the ball they didn't seem coming. You know, you get the frozen tennis ball in the head or in the leg. You know, it was just a lot of fun.

You know, I'm not sure if it's still there. I hope it is. It would be a cool thing to go back and play on again. Do you ever miss those days? Like I hear you talk about that. Those days as a kid when you used to, you know, get to just go and skate and skate and you had energy for days and you didn't feel the cold or you swear you didn't feel the cold. Do you ever go, you know, have a look back at that time and go, man, be fun to go back there for a day? I miss it.

Now that I have kids in my own, you know, my oldest boy is turning nine here in a month. and then I got another boy that's seven. You try and have that for them. It's not the same or it doesn't feel the same as a dad going to some of the outdoor rinks where the dressing rooms are heated and, you know, they're pretty nice. Better lock rooms than we ever had, you know, like brand new nets out there. So it's not the same where you really felt like you were rough in it and looking back on it and making memories.

So you try to do that for your kids. but again, it's just not the same. You want them to experience that because I can even tell the way you talk about it. You know, it kind of romanticized both the past and those times. I mean, no greater fun had. Well, I come from Helmand. So I remember the old Silver Dome.

Dad used to go down there as a community. You'd flood the rink because it was natural ice. And while he flooded, the rule was you could skate until the water got to you. So he would take his time going back and forth with the hose and we'd go skating and sometimes I'd be the only one down there and, you know, you just skate around with the puck. We had no nets on the ice because, you know, he didn't want to move a net back and forth. So you just skate around and put a boot out or whatever else.

And that's what you did. And I looked back at those times and those were like awesome times. I mean, you still get to have those types of fun. But now, you know, you're right. Like the outdoor rinks got brand new nets, got brand new. And don't get me wrong. As a kid, I would have loved a brand new net. but I think back then you were just happy to get on the ice and now I mean COVID slowed everything down so you know the ice has come out of a lot of the ranks here but now kids in this area particularly and I know that goes further than just here have ice in year round at disposal and that wasn't the thing back then so I think there was you know with it being natural ice specifically in Hillmond when it got cold you knew it was getting close

And I remember as kids, we had a dugout on the bottom of the hill where we lived. And you'd throw a puck out and hear that sound, which any hockey player can just envision, fantastic. And then you kind of like take a step to see, you know, has the ice froze yet? And then crackle. Okay, no, we got to wait. We got to wait. Okay, we'll wait. And you go every day like that.

Yeah, you send your little brother out for the test. Hanging on to the stick. It cracks. You got to pull them in quick or else you get there. No, but those are in like my experience with the rink too. You know, when it turned a little bit warm, usually March, that ice came out. So the last couple of days before that ice came out, they basically opened up the rink. And they'd have the kids play these huge, long games that lasted all day.

And you just went out there, they're sticking puck, and it seemed like nobody ever got hurt. But you just enjoyed it. You played it all day. And it was a lot of fun for everybody involved, no matter the skill level, no matter who you are. Yeah. Yeah, those are good days. It's interesting now with liability insurance and all that,

how that's changed the way that is, because it seems like you can't step on a piece of ice without having to sign a waiver or sign this or sign that. And you think back to, you know, and I'm dating myself, yourself, is back when we were to that age, there was none of that. It was let the kids play, get out on the ice, and go skating.

And I got three older brothers. We talk all the time and an older sister. We talk all the time about the shenanigans that happened on the ice and some of the injuries that came. And dad's rule that we could play until somebody was either bleeding or crying. And then it was time to go home. So nobody cried. And you got to stay at the rink a really long time.

Yeah, no, I remember going in there. Our schedule is on a chalkboard. You know, we come in to the rink. And on the right-hand side, you've been there. There's a chalkboard. and it, you know, there would be two hours devoted to just, it would just say shini. You didn't have to sign up, it just went out and played. And now in Columbus, Ohio here, it's a little different, but there's sign up sheets for that

kind of stuff, and it fills up at 10, you know, 10 people on the ice at a time, and you only allowed two parents. And if you don't get online at time to sign up in time, you don't get to skate. And that's just, it's just changed where I remember there's being a block from four till five, it was either public skating or shini, and that just meant you could have your stick and your puck or you couldn't, and you just went out freely. Did you ever go and skate in between your dad's wreck game periods?

Dad didn't play. Didn't play? No, I had to ref. I had to ref for like 20 bucks. And you want to talk about beer league guys getting upset, calling icing and off sides. It was the worst 20 bucks I think I ever earned. It was terrible.

So dad stopped playing. I stopped refing. and then yeah, beer league hockey, I stay out of it now. It's for my brother. Can you sympathize with refs then when you've been through it like that? I reft as a kid growing up, so I totally sympathize with them. And as a rule to myself, I don't yell at them. I don't disagree with them.

They have the toughest job. I mean, that's the most thankless job in our sport, whether it's the guys on the ice to the coaches or people at home screaming at TV. They're never right. And they're never on anybody's teams. Just as a rule, I just take care of those guys as much as I can. Maybe that's why a faceoff percentage has been so high. What did you do to become such a good, like, was that just a God-given talent being

talented in the face-off done? It's survival. You know, you're a undersized chubby kid out of university with no draft pedigree. You got to find something you're good at to stay in the league. So for me, I mean, yeah, I'm right-handed. At the time in the Pittsburgh system, they were all left-handed. Everybody, Malkenstall, Crosby. Craig Adams was the only right-handed ceremony.

He's the fourth-liner. And they just said to me, like, if you want to be here or at least get your foot in the door, you work on your face-offs. We got used for a right-handed sentiment. And, you know, ever since then, you work on the craft. And, I mean, you better be good at it. You're not good at it. They're going to find somebody to replace you.

So for me, it was about survival. survival. That was my way in and then you try and expand upon it with every opportunity you get. That's an interesting, them telling you that and you taking it for what it's worth. I've had different guys on here before where they've been told things and for one reason or another, they don't accept what has been told to them. And they don't have, you know, that's why I find it interesting your career, you find a way. And being told right off the hop, if you work on this, we got a spa for you while you become a damn good centerman at winning draws at becoming a penalty killer.

Yeah, well, I've always, I've always thought it's in, it's in their best interest to tell me what I need to do to be there. There's a scout somewhere, there's a GM somewhere that's probably stuck his neck out for me at some point. You know, if I'm a college free agent and they, they give me, you know, what they, the most they could at the time, they call it a cap deal. somebody had probably pounded the table or stuck their neck out for me, they're going to try and give me the tools to succeed.

Nobody's trying to, you know, to screw me over. Or nobody's trying to make sure that they stick it to me or something. You know, they want me in the NHL. You know, it looks good on their scouts. It looks good on them as a management. It looks good on those coaches as developers. So when they give you an advantage or an insight into what they're looking for, a skill that might help you advance your career, I think as a professional, you have to,

you have to take it seriously. And it's simple. It wasn't like they're asking me to fight, you know, or really do something or change something about myself. They just wanted me to really focus on a specific skill. Whether it was focus or work at it, you know, I think it got me in my foot in the door. And I think it's probably why I'm still around. It's a skill that's, you know, kept me useful. Well, I just think back to Eminton, we couldn't, and I say we, that's the fan in me. We couldn't win a draw to save our lives. And I remember when they signed here, we're like, well, at least we got somebody

who can come in and win a draw, right? Like, that's exciting. We got somebody who can play a certain role. And he did it very good. Like, I mean, the year you guys went to the playoffs, and you probably get asked about this all the time when you come back and talk to oil country, because, I mean, well, in fairness, the Oilers haven't made the playoffs a whole heck of a lot. And you got to experience one of those years you did.

What was that like going to the playoffs in Emmington, which is essentially your hometown after what, 11-year hiatus from them being in it previous? Full disclosure, not an Oilers fan growing up. Really? Who are you? Who? Montreal,

dad's Saskatoon, born, I know, I know. It's, it was tough growing up, okay, in northern Alberta

is a Habs fan. Everybody loves the Oilers. You know, and I've told the story, my, my father-in-law, he's a die-hard Oilers fan,

been an oil, he's an oiler season ticket holder. You know, and I've told the story about how in the 80s, he wouldn't drive through the city of Calgary, he hated the flame so much.

So if he had to get to the south side of Calgary, there was no ring row either. He would just drive around the city. He hated him so much. So that's what kind of Euler family I married into. So I knew exactly what making the playoffs meant to them. And my buddies and my friends, you know, there's names where they call Decade of Darkness or whatever it was. There's many names.

There's many. And I have lots of Flames fans who are buddies in mine who love to remind me of it. It's, it's, but I mean, there, there will not be a moment in my career that will rival game one. And that you could just tell, and it has nothing to do with the game because I'm pretty sure we lost. But just coming out for warm up, you could tell there was a decade of pent-up emotion that people are just ready to cheer. They're just ready to be back in the playoffs, kind of where they belong, to be honest. I mean, you got that many Stanley Cup banners. You belong there.

You should be in that conversation. So to come out for warm up and the ear, the ovation of it, and then, you know, them singing the anthem, you know, something I've seen on TV countless times. That first game, that was amazing for me. And then to play as well as I did in that stretch, it means a lot. Speaking of the first game, because I, as fans we all knew they were going to try and do something with the anthem but we weren't

100% sure what they were going to do and then of course Robert Clark singing and letting the fans do it again as a player was that like did you see that coming what did that feel like I hoped it was coming I because that's what that's what I remember Edmonton for you know and I hear fans talk about Vancouver started it or but to me that's an Edmonton thing, Edmonton singing in the anthem, both anthems. So I hoped that they would turn it over to the crowd. They did it in a pretty poetic way, you know, putting Robert in the crowd with them and starting it and then handing it over.

And then later Brett Kistel as the, you know, the playoffs went on. He kind of did the same thing at passing it on the fence, but I hoped for it. I remember, so my wife took me, I'm a girlfriend at the time, wife now, took me to the Stanley Cup final game where Dwayne Roleson got hurt. So I was at that game. So she was really trying to woo me, took me to an NHL final game, sealed the deal apparently. But I remember being at that game and the atmosphere to it. And, you know, they're coming out to pump it by the black eyed peas.

And, you know, the whole get electric. You know, I was there for that. So that was really cool as a fan. then to be there for the playoffs themselves was it was something else. You almost giving me chills talking about 06. The Roli, the goalie and the silver tassels swinging in the air. Yeah, it was the best time. It was the best time.

I feel for Ty Conklin, you know, who had to come into that situation. But it was, well, what can you do now? History. That's right. But how hard, how hard has this season been? You know, I want to go back to your junior days and everything. But I didn't realize, you know, and it's fun when you get a new guest, come on. You get to do a little bit of research.

And, you know, you're not playing for Eminton now and being in the Winnipeg system. This myocarditis, is that what it is? Yeah, myocarditis. For the people, probably at all the point, they know all about it. But for everybody else, myocarditis is a virus. that attacks the heart and you've been out now for a chunk of time. Yeah, but myocarditis is not actually a virus. Okay.

So myocarditis is the result of a virus. So at some point I got sick. Could have been strep, could have been flu, could have been really anything. I can't really pinpoint it, neither can doctorate. But the virus attacks the walls of your heart and causes inflammation. And the inflammation doesn't allow the heart to pump out as much. much as it should and it causes a backlog of blood in the heart. So if you get, you know, higher levels of stress for a really long period of time, you could with the backlog going to

cardiac arrest. So that's where that comes. And really the only way to flush the inflammation out of your heart is to give it rest. It's different than, you know, any other rehab where maybe you're using massage or stim or you're, you know, using exercises and working it to get it out. But every time you stress your heart, the inflammation kind of just won't go away. So that was the reason for six months shutdown. You know, you just, you got to take six months off, low heart rate, and try and let your body just heal itself. Did you feel like shit? Like, do you feel bad?

No, no, I felt great. You know, now in hindsight, now getting back into the gym now, I feel a difference. You know, I'm able to push weight and push my, my cardio. and I was able to last summer, just judging purely by numbers that we collect. So there's a difference there, but at the time, I had no symptoms, nothing. And the only reason we caught it is the preseason screening. So they put us through, everybody goes through an EKG, which checks the rhythm of your heart, and mine came back irregular.

So I went for an echocardiogram, which is literally the station next to it. That was a little bit irregular, but nothing definitive. So they decided to send me for an MRI. And I got those MRI results, which again, the doctors in Winnipeg locally were unsure. So they sent a second opinion off to the Mayo Clinic in Minneapolis. And they are the people that decide, you know what? It's probably myocarditis. We should shut them down and bring them here to run our own tests.

And that's when I went up there and got more tests. But in the meantime, I played 13 games, this six exhibition, seven regular season. and I guess dodged a bit of a bullet. So then you're thankful they caught it, obviously. Yeah, no doubt. Yeah, absolutely. But six months, that's a death sentence on your year, especially from, you know,

I spent the whole year in the American League, basically, the year before. So this was my chance to kind of get back in the league, maybe reestablish myself. When that gets taken from you, it sucks. You know, it's terrible for 24, 48 hours, but it's athletes you get over it you move on but the initial call that that was as devastating as an injury of i've had so far yeah well and for it to be no yeah it's not like you broke your leg or you know got a really bad concussion not that a concussion is easy to swallow either but

for something like that where you just got a like there is there activities you can do to help strengthen it or get over it or is it just you need to be away from stress yeah a lot of Netflix a lot of sitting around a lot of nothing just honestly that that was the worst part is you know what they told me you just you can't you can't go beyond a conversation level of workout you just got to wait and you just got to be patient with it so that's what we did we're just we're patient with it so what did you do in that time then well honestly the best part of it is the Jets, you know, and I've been singing their praises the last couple of days with some of the media I've done around the Master's Award, but they sent me home right away. My wife and family

stayed in Ohio. You know, they're just, they're old enough now that it's just, it's fair to them to have them put some roots down. So I was going to Winnipeg on a solo mission. And, you know, when I got the, I guess the diagnosis and the time frame, they said, go home. You know, we don't, We don't need you to be here. There's nothing we can do for you. And we don't think you're a bad guy if you're not around every day. We know what you're about. Go home and be with your family.

And that was the best thing for me. It was just to get me out of there where every day I would have been just going to the rink thinking about, you know, myself, maybe pouting or being frustrated. But coming back here and fire me back into the routine of, you know, pickups from school, getting lunches ready, going to hockey practice, helping out with that. I didn't have time to feel sorry for myself. You know, it's not fair to the kids or the wife or anything like that.

You just, you take up a new role. And that was different for me in the winter, being home and being present. And I enjoyed it. But at the same time, you miss being a hockey player. You miss being at the rink. And if anything, the time away made me hungry to come back and give it a shot. Now that hockey is coming back, in quotations, as the phases start. to come out and we kind of figure out a little bit more, you might be in a good spot.

Because everybody else has had to sit around now for a couple months, right? And you guys know you're playing the flames in the first round. So your father-in-law will love that. Well, at least the internal playing fields level in my mind. You know, Paul Maurice, who's been awesome, he was never going to put me back in the lineup. You know, coming back off of, you know, a six-month layoff. in the heat of a playoff race. It's honestly, it's not fair to the guys that work so hard to get there.

And I'm kind of an unproven commodity at that point. Like if he puts me out there and I get an extra long shift, so you're going to have to come drag me off. So I understood it then. You know, I was going there to be a cheerleader and be, you know, the best teammate possible. And, you know, God forbid you get four or five injuries. You got to fire me back in there.

With all their shutdown now, I mean, we're all in the same. situation. We've all been sitting around. So, you know, if I can get my conditioning level to the level of some of the guys now that I'm sitting around, I see no reason why I can't get back in there. Now, that'd be exciting. What do you think, and you've probably been asked this a bazillion times, but I think as all fans, we're all sitting there going like flames jets or, you know, Oilers, hawks. Like, now that's some fun, right? Like, ooh, first round. No fans in the building. well, that's going to be weird. Like as players, I mean, you've been to Bear League games with no fans in the stands.

It can get heated. And with Best of Five to start it up, I think it'll be heated. I don't think it's going to just be like rec hockey. It'll be fired up, but it will be weird playing in a city that isn't your city with no fans in the stands. Do you like the matchups? Do I like the matchups? Not necessarily the teams per se, but just the idea of not playing in the division anymore. Well, this is an interesting topic because I don't know.

I'm always a little bit crazy on this topic. I think for one year, I'm not crazy about hockey starting in the middle of summer. Will you come from this area? This area, we're happy to have hockey done in June. I think most people would like it done in May. and then you can go enjoy your summer because in Canada specifically in Alberta, Saskatchewan, we get what, three months of summer if we're lucky. And so I would prefer it to be played faster.

So not 5777.7. I think this season, no matter what you do, is always going to have an asterisk bite. So teams are getting in that shouldn't be getting in. The top seed, everybody's all upset because they're playing around Robin and, you know, whether Boston should be first or whatever. whatever. It's, it's, they're doing the best they can. As far as matchups go, I would, I would like something more of like a world junior style, a March Madness style that in a three week period, instead of the grind, it's a tournament style because there's no, you got to get the games in.

And you get through it and the asterisk is always there and maybe you have a best of seven for the finals and so be it. That's my take on it. I don't know. What, what is your thoughts on the matchups. I know originally the idea behind the way they were doing playoffs was to get rivalries going. Right. You know, the Montreal played for Toronto every other year and you get this rivalry going and I don't get the sense of that happening. I don't feel like, you know, there's a huge rivalry really anywhere that's been built up in the playoffs. Whereas I even, I preferred the one to eight because I remember growing up for whatever reason, it was Edmonton Dallas. I was just going to say the last one for the weather

was Dallas every bloody year. And there's no geographic. There's nothing to it. It's just they played each other all the time. And I mean, you remember it, I remember it. Those were great.

You know, I remember Todd Marchant scored the goal. Yeah. And we all went outside and played street hockey and tried to go low blocker on the guy. Like, we wanted to score the overtime winner just like that. Andy Moog. Yeah. So I,

when I see Jets' flames, I get excited. about that. I think that's, you may never see this series ever again in your lifetime if you're going to keep the current playoff format because both those teams got to make it to the conference finals. So I think that the uniqueness of this year could be exciting. And I think it's a shame you don't get to see it more often, or at least the possibility of it happen more often. But to get back to what you're talking about an empty rink, I think the amount of time I spend on the bench, I'm going to notice it. Blake Wheeler, Mark Schifley, those guys,

they're not going to notice anything. It's just going to be hockey. When you're out there, there's nothing. But when me and Gabriel Borker. Except when they freaking score a goal and there's not a cheer in the barn. Shifley goes top shelf and it's going to be like, yay. Yeah, you're going to hear those weird man screams of,

it's just that part's going to be weird. But I think when the Stanley Cups on the line and I think the intensity of the game will still be there, the fans, we're going to miss that. That part of playoff hockey is going to be missed. And it's a shame, but it's a necessary shame at this point. Yeah, that's fair. To go back to the Jets, this is the lovely thing about podcasting. We don't need to go anywhere off a topic. Going back to Jets playing, I think it'll be awesome because you watch.

you know, they've had the vintage hockey games going on. So you get to see like the Jets, Oilers, the Jets, Flames, the yada, yada, yada, that happens. In the current format, it's supposed to spur on the flames and Oilers meeting at some point, right? But they've got to get in the playoffs, and they've got to get in the playoffs consistently to grow that, for lack of a better word, hatred among teams, right? The teams that I see that have some playoff animosity in the last 10 years would be Washington, Pittsburgh. They played each other a lot. And Boston, Toronto.

Those two on the East Coast, they just seem to meet each other all the time. And there could probably be some set for the West. But around us specifically, like the, you know, Winnipeg, Calgary, Eminton, you wish they were in the same division because just in population-wise, there's a lot of animosity when it comes to those specific regions. And whether you're talking CFL, right, that kind of carries over into hockey. And so I could see, yeah, this being one of those years where you may never get it back. And that's why I always suggest, you know, I don't know if listeners absolutely hate the idea of a world junior-style tournament. But you could have that or a March match. Imagine one game winner goes on.

like that'd be cool for a year just to try it out and if it sucks it's always going to have an asterisk beside it anyways yeah i think i think the asterisk part i think that's why the seven game series was pushed through i think the idea of winning 16 playoff games earns you the stanley cup i think that that's the reason uh for it because i think it would it would really really come under scrutiny if if it was a one game you win four games and you win the stanley cup you know I mean, that would be a beer league dream, right? Everybody's like, let's put my team in. I got a chance.

You know, everybody's like, I get Chicago in the first round. We got a chance. We only got to win three more after that. You know, so I do. You hate the idea then. And I should point, oh, there's ways to, well, no, screw up. I'm sticking to my guns. I would gladly take that for a year.

I think that'd be exciting as all hell. NFL style, winner take all, all, all, marvels on the table. Because you're never going to get another opportunity like this, or hopefully, I should say, hopefully we never see another opportunity like this, right? I'd be the first to say, there's nothing better in sports, all of sports, than the first round of playoffs. And the parity in the league is bar none. I mean, what other league can you walk in the first round be the low seed and upset the top seat? It happens almost every year in the NHL. It's fantastic. And the opening round, just game after game after game, is a hockey player's like dream.

It's so much fun to watch. Just this year in the middle of summer, I'm struggling. The Oilers are in. Believe me, I'm going to be watching. Yeah, I think we're at a fan player disagreement here because I know if I get to raise the Stanley Cup at some point, you know, if I get to watch most of my teammates play the playoffs and you win, you won't. want to be able to raise the Stanley Cup and feel like you earned it. And you want to feel like when you take it to your hometown for that day,

that you earned it. People aren't, you know, snickering or, you know, you want to feel like you earned it. And I think that's where it comes from. But absolutely.

Look at these bums. They only won four games. They got the Stanley Cup. Just pull their names off there already. Yeah. So I, I see what you say in because I, I would think that that would be as exciting as possible.

You get sudden, basically game seven every time out. That's right. You're throwing out the regular season, which, you know, Rod Brindmore has his way. He'd be grump for this, but, you know, we're throwing out the regular season anyways. You know, one game playoff, yeah, sure, it'd be fun. But it's a lot of work.

Three weeks of training camp for one game. I wouldn't be too thrilled about it. How excited are you for a best of five, though? Just like the kind of the almost wild card format of win a series, win three and you're in the playoffs or you're in the you're in the dance i'm not that excited about it uh you know i you know i don't know what we have been in were we the eight seed or was calgary the eight seed you know if we were in i would have just liked to have played the playoffs uh i understand why they did it this way uh but five games you know it's weird this home ice

you know like the the top teams playing uh they're round robin to determine seating well there's no home ice advantage. We're all playing a neutral site. So I'm not sure what advantage. Maybe you get last change. Maybe that's what they're playing for, you know, the one to four, but I really want to see how this all shakes out. The five game series is shorter. I've done it, you know, in the minors, the first round, you play best of five. So there's changes to it, but I wish it was shorter. But, you know, that's me. They want, there's a TV deal here. Well, money talks.

At the end of the day, I think anyone, players, fans, coach GMs get it. Like, at the end of the day, it's money. And you got games to play. And regardless, the Oilers go to the Stanley Cup finals this year. I guess I'm watching hockey, you know, through my summer. And the wife is going to be extremely pissed. But that's all right. This would be a lot of unhappy households or happy households.

Or happy households. I want to talk about the AJHL for a little bit. I know you played for the Bonneville Ponniacs way back when. Just kind of a little bit on your time in the Junior A. And, you know, just I listened to an interview you had, or maybe kind of a synopsis of your career. And they talked about how you deferred going to school for a year. found that very, very interesting. And I thought maybe we could talk about that for a little bit.

Yeah. So I would have been, it would have been my 19 year old year. Western Michigan had offered me a scholarship. And I was excited. I was pumped to go. But I didn't really have any grand scheme. You know, I didn't envision myself playing in the NHL. I was going to school to play hockey, get a degree. You know, they were going to pay me to get a degree and I was more than happy to do that. So I was really in no hurry. They gave me the option. And my brother was actually going to play with me in Bonneville. So I was like, well, my brother and I were two years apart. We never got to play together. So why not? Stick around and we had some pretty good teams in Bonneville. We never, we couldn't really get over the hump. We always lost the

four back. We were always really talented and everybody was coming back. So I was, you know, I was in no hurry. I thought, you know, what the heck? And I, I, I got some pretty cool experience. I got to play in the Viking Cup. I don't know if they still do that tournament. They do not do the Viking Cup anymore. Yeah, so that was really cool for me, just an experience. You know, and then I had the year I should have had.

You know, I think you look at the numbers and it's like, you know, I think I had 50 and 55 that year. But, you know, if we're tracking a progression, you know, I think I had 86 the year before for points. Yep. I'm 20 years old. I'm a man at that point. And I've spent a lot of time in that league and I had a really good team around me.

I put up the numbers I should have put up. I don't think anybody looks at those and, you know, they're big numbers, but it's not, you know, it wasn't mind-blowing. So I had a lot of fun with it that way. I knew I was going to do well. I knew the team would do well. We couldn't get over the hump. Couldn't beat four Mac again. So it turned out to be a little bit foolish, but I enjoy playing.

with my brother. Well, that's a year you'll never, you know, that'll never happen again, right, unless you come back and play for Elk Point in the old senior league, which at that point, I guess I'm going to have to try and hip check you at least once. I don't move around too quick if you don't know, so you might be able to get that off on me. I don't move around too quick anymore either, so. What was it like playing with your brother for a year? Like, I mean, you know, you just, so many people are like, bang, I got to get to the next level.

Got to get here. Got to get here. I'm going to go, boom, boom, boom. You got a Division I scholarship. And you're like, yeah, I'll just, you know, I'm in no rush. Like, that's very interesting. The play with your brother is pretty cool. Yeah, it was the best.

I mean, and, you know, it's not like we play on a line or anything like that. But I think just to have that experience together to be. on the bus and, you know, he's in his rookie year and I'm the, I'm the 20-year-old. So I get to, you know, I get to kind of make fun of him at the rookie party. And, you know, just I get to be there, you know, to help him with those experiences. So that, it was awesome. And my mom and dad, who, you know, they come to everything. They come to every game.

So for them to come and see us play together, I think was a treat for them. I just, I had, it was the best time. And I look back at that team, the talent we had and the players and people that went on from there, you know, it was totally worth it to come back. Well, and Bonneville from Oak Point, I mean, your parents could make every game. That's, I mean, like, that's like, what, half an hour? 20 minutes, 20 minutes. So it was, it was routine for me to go home, you know, for a weekend. we get a day off or something.

I'd go home and see mom and dad, play with the dog. Did you stay at Billetson? Yeah, yeah. No, I stayed in the coach's house. So I was in his basement for three years, three different houses, three years. Three different houses and three years. Yeah, they moved around a lot, I guess. Me and Jean-Marc Baudouin, we lived together for three years in the coach's house

and three different houses. House two is the best. We had the basement to ourselves. Well, the year, you're not. you're talking about where you went back. I mean, 50, 55, 105, that was good enough to lead the league in scoring. That was good enough to get the nod for the MVP of the league.

So, you know, you say those were what you should have put up. Those are still pretty good. Yeah, no, and absolutely, you know, I do take a lot of pride in those numbers and, you know, trying not to come off too, you know, overly full of myself. but as a 20-year-old in that league, you know, if I thought that I was coming back to dominate or if Western Michigan was leaving me there to develop and dominate, that's what I was supposed to do.

Yeah. And we had the talent. I mean, we had three guys on that team playing the NHL. Shannon was a gold medalist. We get the world long drive champion on that team. Like we had some pretty special people. and when you surround yourself with good players in that league at that time you're going to put up some numbers what about western michigan then what was that like hopping there as uh he would have been 21 then

when you first started playing there yeah i was i was old enough to drink as a freshman i had i had three years on everybody else in my class i was older than one of the seniors so i was i was coming in older uh but that that western michigan the experience there was totally unexpected it. I didn't expect to have success like that right away. They just kept putting me in situations and I kept delivering. I think I had a hat trick in my fifth game in Nebraska, Omaha, and that's kind of where the light ball went off. Like, you know, I can do this. I can play here. I belong. And it just snowballed. You get a little bit of momentum and confidence and it just took off and I ended up leading the nation and freshman scoring. And nine months after I'm done

playing in Bonneville. I got a two-year contract to play with the penguins. So it happens so fast that I really didn't have time to really sit down and think about it. Well, what is your brain doing? Like how does a contract come? They just gave you a call one day? Yeah, my agent, I think he's an advisor at the time. You get to be careful of those words, but he's an advisor. And as the season ends, you know, because I always give them a hard time. I tell him, you didn't think you were actually going to make money on me. You know, like, there's no way. But we, sure enough, after the season,

then he called me, said, hey, we've got some interest. We've got a few teams that are talking about you. Do you think he'd leave school? You're a 21-year-old freshman. I mean, if you don't leave school, then, it could be too late. You never know when it passes you by. So I, you know, I said, yeah, you know, if somebody's serious about it, let's give this a talk.

So we went back and forth a couple days, and it came down to Colorado and Pittsburgh. And honestly, the only real reason that I went to Pittsburgh is Ray Schiro had personally called me. I was sitting in the cafeteria at the dorms, and he had called me. And it was just, he seemed like a normal, decent person. Just talked to me like I was, you know, he didn't try to tell me I was going to play with Crosby or with Malkin or give me these stories of grandeur that I was going to, you know, do this and that. He was just, they really wanted to add me to a really good group of sentiment they had.

And maybe one day I could work my way there. But just his, him taking the time to call me, that was good enough for me. Did you get a signing bonus out of that? Yeah, I got as, I got as much as I could get. What did you do? It's one of my favorite questions. What did you do with your signing bonus? I bought a truck, like a Tahoe. But other than that, that stuff went away. You know, that went to a bank account somewhere where I'd never be able to touch it again. You didn't trust yourself.

Not that I didn't trust myself. I don't, you know, my mom's been a, you know, she's been like a sales clerk for whole life. She's worked at, you know, home hardware and PV Mart and fields. Dad's been a truck driver. we've never had that kind of a check come. So, you know, right away, they said, listen, you got a real opportunity to get ahead. Don't be an idiot.

So I tried not to be an idiot. How good did it feel, though, to walk in and pay cash for a brand new truck? Yeah, I mean, I've never bought anything in my life, so, yeah. That year, you signed with them. you head to Wilkesbury for your HL playoffs, or regular season playoffs, I believe. Yeah, no, I finished three games in the regular season. And then, yeah, finished the playoffs.

I think we lost out to Hershey in that time. But that, when I got there was the first time I knew that I was in over my head. It just happened too fast. You know, you go from, like I said, nine months from being, you know, know, kind of the guy in the league. And you realize that everybody in the American League is the best player on their team. And they all have the same kind of success story as you up into that point. And everybody's better than you.

Like at that point, everybody was better than me. It felt like they were faster. They were smarter. They were bigger. I remember my first game, I'm playing center against Hartford and Dale Purenton's on the blue line. It looks like the undertaker with Mark Messier's helmet. But like we are not like if I go near him, I'm going to die. So I just, it was, it was, I didn't feel myself like I belong.

But it was really good to go and see that before I came to training camp the next year. So what, okay. So you go there, you play a handful of games. You come back and you're like, holy crap. What did you do then to boost your confidence back up in preparing for that first year? Because, I mean, you just basically said, I don't belong. So you got to fix that in an awful hurry because you're going right back and you're going into the fire and you're going, you got to find a way to find that confidence to stick. Well, and I didn't approach it right.

You know, again, I'm 20, maybe 21 at the time, 22. I really didn't start really training for hockey until I was 22 years old. you know, like even going to college, you know, lift weights every now and you can go for a run. But I didn't really train for hockey. So coming back from my little stint with, you know, Wilkesbury, feeling pretty good about myself. You know, I'm still on an HL contract. I got two years. And I didn't train the way I should have coming into that first year.

And I don't think it's from being arrogant or it just wasn't knowing. You know, I, I never lifted weights. I never really trained for hockey. So I remember I went once a week or twice a week to this guy owned St. Paul, Brad Blackburn, awesome, great guy, Texan, he's got some weights in his gym. And I'd come in once a week. I'd do upper body lifts and I'd lift as much as I could for as many reps as I could. And then a week from that day, I'd come back and I'd see if I could do it either one rep more or I'd up the weight.

And we do that on a Monday and say Wednesday we do lower body and we do the similar thing. But Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, no working out. So I went back to Pittsburgh thinking this was how you train because I don't know. You know, I didn't grow up around, you know, people that were into hockey training, you know, like these skills coaches, four-year-olds gotten out. I just played. So I went back and I was terribly out of shape when I got to camp, couldn't keep up. And it affected my game there.

I ended up in the coast for the first month of my pro career and really had to start and work my way back through and gain some trust. And it had some really difficult conversations with my coach at the time Todd Richards. You know, he really gave it to me about how I practiced. Because again,

I practice, you know, to steal a line from Allen Iverson. Are we talking about practice? Yeah. I didn't get it. You know, I really did.

didn't get it. I didn't know what it meant to practice and how to be a pro. That first year in the American League, that's what that was about. That first year was about learning how to approach every day as a professional and get better and learn from my surroundings and be in better shape. I'm just thankful I had a second year on my deal because if I didn't, I'm not sure I'd be where I am. So what were some, you talk about practicing like a pro and approaching it. What were some of the things then you had to change? I just, I just had to work with the purpose, practice. You know, I, you know, I still remember.

We had one drill where I was back checking the drill, but I didn't know that I was supposed to be a part of the drill. I was back checking it, but just kind of giving token pressure. And Connor James was a player. I was back checking, and he walked me pretty good, but I didn't think anything of it. And I came back to the line and taught it, asked me, like, what are you doing?

So what do you mean? What I back checked? He's like, well, like, and he kind of just stared at me like your dad would stare at you when you do something ridiculous. I was like, do you want me to work harder? And he, again, like a dad, as disappointed as possible, like you want to work harder. You haven't played in three weeks. You want to work harder? What the?

You know, he just got right up in my face about it. And I just, I didn't realize that being out of the line. up, I had to work to get back in. So we had a lot of these tough conversations. He even asked me if I was scared to play. And he never did it as a bully or as being mean, just honesty and honest questions that made me reflect on, you know, what I was bringing to the table and how I had to change. Thankfully, he had those conversations with me. Otherwise, who knows, I might not have changed.

So what was the light bulb moment then when you went, oh, I get it? I'm not sure. I'm really not sure if there was a moment, you know, that sticks out in my mind when I decided that I had to be better. Because I internally, I always never wanted to come home and be a washout, you know, like you're going, you're signing with the penguins. You want to play with the penguins. You want to prove people right. So I was always trying to take everything I could. You know, even those hard conversations, you got to change.

But maybe some of the players with less pedigree, you know, that we're getting opportunities. We had a player, and I shouldn't even say less pedigree, you know, but we had a player, Tyler Spurgeon, his brother plays in Minneapolis. Minnesota, yeah. Yeah. But Tyler, I believe Tyler might have been the caps on the Colonna. a lot of the teams that have went on to Memorial Cups and Tyler worked so hard and you know he didn't exactly have the best skill set

but he got opportunities because he worked so hard and I had so much respect for him just that he never quit every drill was it seemed like game seven like he put everything he had into it and he may have even gotten a game in Edmonton I'm not sure if he did but he was he was somebody that they had told me that when they had first got him

they didn't know if he'd pan out they didn't know if they'd see anything but that the way he practiced he got an opportunity and he stuck around and so I watched him for a while I'm like okay I got to practice like this crazy guy so you try and do that you try and pick up off somebody who's getting opportunities for what they're doing

and eventually your work ethic becomes your habit just becomes the way you do things and that's I had to learn a whole new habit system and developing, you know, my skills around workout. So what were some of the habits then that you changed? Like, yeah, just battling on pucks. You know, like you go into a corner trying to win a battle.

You don't go in the corner, one-handed, you know, kind of gator arm in it because you might get hit. you know you go into a corner with your teammate respecting him but you're going in there to win a battle because you're going to get that same battle a dozen times in the next game and it's it's the respect factor and it's it's a way to earn it you know and you're screening a goalie you screen the goalie you know you don't give the dog on the fire hydrant and get not in the way you know you you stand there and you screen them you do everything in practice like you would do a game you shoot fuck like you're going to score, you pass the puck hard. And I just, I wasn't pushed that way. You know, in the junior A, for sure I wasn't pushed that way. In college, it came too easy.

In hockey, in my two or three years leading up to being in Wilkesbury, I didn't have enough adversity to teach me to change. It all came pretty easy. And that's why maybe it hit me a bit of wall when I got there. You faced your fair share of adversity in the next three years because you're in Wilkesbury and you allude to or talk a little bit about Wheeling Nailers, the East Coast, one of the greatest team names ever. You know, that'll fizzle out a lot of players. And obviously you stuck with it.

I'd listen to or read a quote in the paper about you that said, year four, you knew you either had to basically shit or get off the pot. Like it was either time to make the team or you're going to be a career minor leaguer. And I found that very interesting that you recognize that. And you've recognized at several different points in your career, to be honest, listening to you. Yeah, well, I think that it's probably one of the skills that's helped me is I'm able to kind

of read where you fit, where there's a need for something. I have no, you know, I have no misgivings about what I am as a player or where I fit or who's where. Like I never thought that I was getting Sidney Crosby's job. You know, I never thought I was getting Guinea Malkin's job or Jordan Stahl's job. But, you know, there might have been a place to take the 12th forward or the 13th forward. So you had to find a way to not, you know, in junior I was the guy that stood on the, I was in Stephen Stamco's spot, I was in a vetchkin spot, I was team up one-timers and scoring a million goals. And then you do that and you do it in college. To me, it's very obvious once you get to

Pittsburgh and Wilkesbury, that's not your job anymore. You're not here to be that guy. You're here to fill a role on a team. And whether that's taking faceoffs or eating a one-timer or, you know, being a cheerleader, you're just here to fill a role. And you have to find that role that makes everything come together. But you know, you'll never hear me say that the coach, you know, screwed me and didn't play me on the power play. Because how are you going to play in the power play? Sidney Crosby and McGee Malcon.

There's no room. You got to find a way to play somewhere else or you get moved on. So I just, I never had an ego big enough to think that I belonged with those guys or that they should share their spotlight with me. I just knew that my role was to be one of the other guys. one of the soldiers. They just went out there and tried to get some momentum before those guys could get back out there and score some goals.

Were you a guy who'd blocked shots back in junior and in college? No. No, and I still suck at blocking shots. It's something I've got to work on every day. Who's the hardest guy who shot a puck at you in the NHL dad? You're like, Jesus, that was a bolt of lightning. Buffaloan was always terrifying just the way their power play set up

he was he was scary Johnny Boychuk scares the hell out of me because he doesn't look where he's shooting like Johnny Boychuk he's tickling the rafters every time the puck comes to him and his head is so buried that he doesn't care if you're in the way

most guys got their head up and if you're in the lane they won't shoot it he's just a guy that his head is buried and he's going to put it through you. But the charas of the world, you know, you're in the lane, but you're not quite in the lane. So there's some guys that can really hammer it. You want me to get in front of what?

Yeah, well, and I play with Matt Hendricks. He's one of my good buddies. And, I mean, he played hockey the hard way. That guy got in front of everything, even to the point where I think Alex Gologsky blew his cup up. Yeah. And I played with Goose and Wilkesbury. He can't shoot the puck.

So for him to blow up a cup, that just tells you how heavy everybody can shoot it now. It's everybody can shoot it. Everybody can rip it. And it's just the technology nowadays. Hendricks, we got to see him here, and he was a guy who laid it on the line every night. Yeah, he's one of my favorite players I've ever played with

because he was another guy that had no ego about him. He knew what his role was. Undersized guy fought anybody. Didn't fight them well, but he fought them. And he got in front of every shot possible. And one of the best leaders, really one of the best leaders. And he wasn't the guy that had to score goals to lead. He was a guy that just the way he played and the way he competed, he earned a voice.

It didn't matter who else was in the room. And you could ask the Connor McDavid's and Leon's how much they respect him. And I bet their admiration be through the roof. I think it's fans, you see that. I think it's very easy to see. Yeah, well, I hope so. He deserves it. And I think he's now the, you know, we kind of go back and forth on text message and whatnot,

but he's a player development guy now with the Wild. And there couldn't be a better person for that organization to be, talking to your prospects about how to carry themselves as a pro. And in my opinion, you know, Edmonton and, you know, Winnipeg and some of those organizations really lost something when they let him go. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It was a, I know a while a guy who's beloved like that and plays the right way and puts 110% every shift of every game he plays, those are the players you like to watch.

You know, you go back to the old Oilers when Marchand is scoring. those goals and they were blue-collar team, they had a lot of those players. A lot of those guys who just bled out everything they had every single game. And, you know, going back to the heyday of them in Dallas, it's what they were up against. They were up against a superstar team that was going to eventually win a Stanley Cup. And they were the team in the way that beat the living crap out of them every night. Give you an idea, too, of Matt, what he meant to that room. So in that playoff series, or, you know, when we made the playoffs, which in a, in its own is tough to the time we made the playoffs.

You know, Matt wasn't playing, you know, just the way the lineup was. But we, we as a leadership group had kind of gone in there and talked to Todd about having him dress for warmups, which I'm telling you right now is he's probably 35 at the time. To be a guy dressing for warmups, it's not a badge of honor. You know, it's almost kind of not embarrassing, but you just, you're not going to play so you give it to somebody else and you let that that older guy stay at home for the extra little bit or whatever but we needed him in the room just before the game that's that's all we needed him for that's how much he meant to the team that we went in we

asked if he you know and we asked him because that's that's kind of a bitter pill to swallow you got to accept the fact that you're not playing but he he did it he came in before every game to put the gear on came out for warm-up and he was the guy that kind of you know settled things down at times he'd go through the locker room he'd bang everybody on the shin pads say something goofy to him get them into the game and you know the game would start to heat at the showers and nobody ever hears that you know nobody ever knows uh that he he was a guy in that locker room that really you know when you talk about glue like true glue guys that had the ear of everybody uh you know And at the time, he just wasn't playing, but still everybody respected everything he had to say and everything he meant to that group.

That's a good story. Man, that's, that almost gives me chills thinking about that. Like, that's unreal that you wanted them that bad in the room before. Like, that's a high badge of honor for any person, let alone hockey player. Well, and again, credit to him and his makeup, he didn't have one ounce of pride get in the way. You know, he said, yeah, if you guys want me in there, I'll do it. I'll throw the gear on. And he acts like a crazy person.

Even it's probably killing him inside that he's not playing. You know, his team's in the playoffs. And that guy in the playoffs, I mean, he'd love it. So for him to swallow whatever pride he had and come in and just be what we needed him to be, I think that's the true definition of a teammate. It had nothing to do with Matt. It had everything to do with the Oilers. And, you know, I'll always remember that about him.

Yeah, well, I mean, just put. yourself in his shoes. I mean, it's, you got to get dressed to make everybody else, you know, like get your team going, but you know you ain't going to see a shift and the building's rocking. And you can just like feel the energy, right? Like, man, half of us, you'd have, like, you'd have to lock the doors to make sure we didn't go out and just hop on the bench. Yeah. And, you know, and I make it sound, you know, maybe that, you know, we were a group of, you know, dead bodies not excited to play that needed Matt to fire himself. He was part of the equation.

I don't think that's at all what you're saying. I get exactly what you're saying, right? He's just a part of the puzzle. And if you could have had a 13th forward, he would have been the 13th forward. It would have just been that easy. I get exactly what you're saying. I think any hockey player who's played completely understands what you're saying.

That's a guy you want in the locker room when it's game seven. and, you know, it's win or die, and he's going to go to the wall for you. Yeah, no, it's one of the all-time team guys. And I wish at the time, you know, he got more credit for it. And, I mean, he went to Winnipeg and they fell in love with him there, enough that they, at the trade deadline, they, you know, he played in Winnipeg, they loved him.

He had an opportunity to go home playing Minnesota. And it wasn't working out in Minnesota for whatever reason. I mean, it tells you what kind of guy he is. Winnipeg, you know, they threw Minnesota seventh round pick at the deadline. And they brought Matt back just to be a leader for the stretch, just to come in. I think he played a handful of games, maybe. But they gave him a seventh round pick at the deadline. Nobody talked about the trade.

But Winnipeg decided they needed them to fix their room before the playoffs. That's what kind of person is. So he's left a pretty good legacy in the game. That's super cool. I want to switching subjects. I'm curious on how walking onto the ice with Crosby and Malkin and Latang and the list goes on. What that was like, you know, you spend your time and your days in the A and you're learning lessons and you're getting better. You're building your habits.

You're starting to maybe scratch the surface of getting into the NHL. And then you finally do. and what was that first stint of 10 games back in, what would that be, 2009-10 season? What was that like getting called up rolling into practice? Like, okay, I'm finally starting to taste this a little bit, and I got a little bit of confidence rolling most likely. Yeah, fun thing is, in those 10 games, I don't think I practiced once. the cap world we're living in a cap world you don't stay up because they don't pay you so they just

bring you up for the game and they drive you back to wilkesbury so i was coming in for a morning skate in a game every time there was no practice so but the the familiarity i had at least dan bylesmore was my head coach in the american league so i had already had that familiarity by the time he was in pittsburg uh so getting the call up at least i had that i had a hand on the systems. I had a handle on the language they were using. So I didn't have to worry about that kind of stuff, but it's always intimidating going into those locker rooms. But again, those Pittsburgh teams I first played on, they had some of the best people in the room. And it's no mystery to me why they won Stanley Cups, you know, like Bill Guerin.

I mean, he's the best, like the best. Just come talk to you like you've been a 10-year teammate. Give you the time of day. Ask you how you're doing. Hey, do you need anything? Hey, we're going out to dinner. Come with us. You know, like just the best guy.

Made you feel welcome. Absolutely. And he wasn't the only one. There was, you know, Pascal Dupuy was like that. You know, Hal Gill and Jay McKee. Like, there was a lot of guys like that. And to me, you know, the guys like Sid, they followed that lease. you know like at the CBA we got our own rooms so if you weren't on an entry level deal you got your

own room and Sid certainly had earned his own room on the road but he he wanted to be around Pascal DePuis so they got joining rooms everywhere on the road you know they just and I think when you're surrounded by good people and good leadership it rubs off it has to and you know said to this day he's he's great you know and he never never treated me less than never ever and I always respect that about them they gave me the time of day and when I was in the power player there was no bitching they passed me the puck like anybody else they just went about their business and then you know we went to dinners together everybody was included and that's one of the best things is you know whenever we got to a city didn't matter who you were the

text went out this is where dinner was and you were coming so I went to dinner wherever dinner was and my entire first year I never paid all always, always, either Sid or Evgeny would pick up my tab, always, and never paid my first year. That's pretty cool. It's amazing. He's younger than me. But he's a kid. He's two years younger than me. He can't be paying for me.

My little brother. No, but it was the best. And right away from there, you get it. You get some experience like that, and now that I'm older in the league, you get it. because that kid is so wide-eyed looking at you. He doesn't want to talk to you. If you just take him for breakfast, take him for dinner, talk to him like a person,

it feels like he's part of the team. It feels like he belongs. And it goes a long way in building, you know, that team camaraderie and certainly chemistry. No, they always talk about being from Emmington country. They always talk about,

and by always, I mean, I've heard the stories of them back in the heyday of the Oilers, talking about coffee and them picking up guys and lending them vehicles and just making them feel welcome immediately and going out of their way to do that. No, and to be honest, my time in Edmonton, those guys were still around a lot. And if there's one thing those guys like to do, it's tell a story. So the stories they would tell are 100% true, like you're saying that, you know,

Kevin Lowe had two cars, a new guy was in town. here's my car it's yours take it until you get on your feet you know you're you're not living at the hotel you're coming to my house you know they would just that's what they did and the sooner you get guys feeling like they're part of the group uh the sooner you're going to play like a team and by them taking care of each other you can tell obviously the proofs in the pudding but uh you know you wish that uh more teams and more guys you know adopted that kind of philosophy well i think that's makes teams special though isn't it that's what makes the the best teams right is is that mentality why yeah i think if everybody had those stories uh it wouldn't uh bring pause to you and me like it does

no it's rare yeah it's it's special and those guys you can tell still uh the love and admiration they have for each other you know i think if you anytime you talk to wayne he'll tell you Grant's the best goalie ever and, you know, Paul's the best defenseman ever. Like, they don't, it's not lip service. Like, they believe that about each other. Like, they believe everything they say and they have such high esteem for each other and the teams they played on. Do you remember the first NHL building you played in, your first NHL game?

Like your first regular season game when you got called up? Was it in Pittsburgh then? In Pittsburgh. I actually got called up previous to that. So I got called up in Columbus. I got flown in for the game. Sid was sick. So we didn't know if he was going to play.

So I got to take warm up. I had to take warm up, do my laps and chin strap undone. So I got to take warmups in Columbus. Cannon scared the shit out of me. I had all the Columbus experiences. But I didn't get to play in that one. Got to do my workout. And then in true cap era, he gets sent immediately home so they don't have to pay you.

And then about a week or two later, I called up to play Boston. And that was pretty cool. Anything you recall about the game? Did you line up taking a draw against, I don't know, Bergeron or of the like? You know, no, I don't. The things I remember about the game is it was crazy scoring.

And then in warm up, it was like, you know, holy shit, Zadano Char is big. And holy shit, Andrew Ference is small. Like that was the two things that stick out. me is, you know, they're not all huge, but that's huge. And, you know, they're, they're not all bigger than me because that's tiny. So it was, it was good to, to get out there and finally see them in the flesh and not, not in person. But I think we won maybe, or lost or one. I'm not even sure. It was like seven, six in overtime or in the shootout or something. It was just one of those

shit show games where the puck just wouldn't stop going in. How about your first goal? Yeah. Buffalo. Yeah. First shift to baby blue uniforms. Tyler Kennedy with a back door three-on-one. That to me was the moment for me that was like I made it moment. You know, I think, you know, the game was cool. You get that first NHL game.

But to actually score, like to be on the score sheet, to have a goal to, you know, you can YouTube my first goal. You can't YouTube somebody's first game. You know, you have a highlight. you're in it, you're on it. So for that, that was awesome. That was probably one of the hardest I've ever screamed about something in my life. So that was really cool.

Yeah, I could just about tell you everything about that goal. It was just, it was a lot of fun, especially the first shift to get it out of the way. It was great. I don't know what Dan had me doing starting a game either, but that was. It worked. Hey, he probably took the credit for it. that. I knew. I knew. Well, how about the playoffs, the year Picksburg wins the cup? You get to play a few games in that

run, correct? No, I missed it. Did you miss it? I missed it by a year? Yeah, so I didn't even get to Black Ace. A lot of my buddies that played with Wilkesbury got to Black Ace and I just missed it. And it disappointed in myself that I missed it too because had I had that first year in the American League, I was a little better. They might have brought me along. So I missed out on it, and I got to play the following year when P.K. Suban had stepped on Jordan Stahl's foot. When he stepped on his foot, that's right.

Okay, okay. That's when I got back in. And I got an assist against Montreal in a playoff game. How about going to Montreal? That must have been something for you. It's the coolest thing, especially as a Canadian fan, even now. you go there and like that the volumes on 11 for a Wednesday night in November like they just it's so loud and even when their teams aren't that good you know they're loud and the

pregame ceremonies the music the pageantry of it all just being a fan I get like that's where I get the goosebumps I'm on the bench I'm playing against these guys and they got the cold play go on and they're coming out and the guy's screaming in French. You don't know what he's saying, but it just sounds cool. It's just, it's a really, really fun place to play. You know, you were mentioning the cannons and I was, I was thinking, I'm going back to Columbus now, I'm jumping here, but I was thinking, you know, of all the different intricacies of how buildings kind of get their fans going. Columbus's canon might be one of the cooler ones. You've got play and hear that an awful lot.

Is there another one in there that you, it sticks out like that you're like, you know, you talk about Montreal and volume 11 and all the history there. But is there another building that, you know, just sticks out. Like, Vegas now has a pretty

cool little pregame going to it. And when they're in the playoffs, that's on 11. Like, that is on next level. Is there something else that sticks out to you in the NHL? Yeah, Vegas. Vegas has a really cool atmosphere. It's new. They did it right. They've got, it feels like Vegas when you're there. So they've identified the right thing. But I think as an NHL fan, every single fan needs to go to the Matt House on Madison and be there for the American National Anthem. There is nothing louder. And I'm not even American. I get chills about it. from the start of the American National Anthem to the end, I think it's louder and louder.

It's one of the coolest things that our sport does. And I think as any fan, you've got to go experience it. It's whether it's the mixture of the organ and the singer and the fans, it's just, it's uniquely Chicago and it's uniquely Blackhawks. And it's, I look forward to it every time I play there. Yeah, Chicago would be good. Chicago is, well, another original sales. right like I mean and they got the name the madhouse I mean you don't get that name for no reason right like that's a lot going on there a lot of history one of my good friends from college that I graduated with is from Chicago and yet I've never made it to a black hawks game so in other words what you're saying is I got to get there yeah they do it right and it never gets old you know they got the

strangle hold coming out and the red lights and just the whole everything's just uniquely Chicago and when you're there, you know you're playing the hawks. And the first period's always there is fired up about the anthem too because they're usually running it down your throat for the first 10 minutes. In your career, who's the best coach you've had? Who's the one that sticks out as like either you taught you? You know, we've talked about a couple different ones in your pro days. But is there a coach that taught you a lesson early on or later on that sticks out to

and you just, you know, really sticks out, I guess. Yeah, if they ever hear this, they were all great. And I may need a job down the line. So if you have a spot on your staff, no, they've all been, I've learned something from everybody. I've spent the most time with Todd Richards. So I had him in Wilkesbury as a minor leaguer, as a kid who didn't know how to practice

and had a lot of hard lessons. I remember almost being in tears, leaving his office a couple times because he asked honest questions that I didn't have answers to that he had to go home and really think about. And then when I get traded to Columbus, he was the assistant coach at the time.

So right away, I'm like, oh, shit, not this again. But I had matured as a player quite a bit. Like I remember playing in Wilkesbury and he'd call me in the summer and I'd screen it. I'm not talking to this guy. Like, I'm scared of him. So when I got to Columbus and he was there, our relationship changed,

assistant coach to player. I was a different player. I had different habits. And he could see it and he respected it. And I'm sure he even gave, you know, me a good review. But then he got to take over as the head coach. And that's when my career really seemed to jump. because I think he had seen what I'd gone through, how I'd made adjustments, how I'd change.

And I even, I even, you know, the lockout shortened year, I led the Blue Jackets and goal scoring that year. So as him as the head coach, I got put in just about every position, power play, penalty kill, even strength. And I had my best years under him. So he's a guy that, for whatever reason, had really tough times, but I had my best times with him, too. That's an interesting. that is something that has come up on this podcast an awful lot is the coach that you go through the struggles with but he sees the growth is usually a coach that believes in you down the road and the fact you got traded to Columbus I hadn't really put that together that he was there

and you wonder the immediate thought I have as soon as I hear that is you wonder if they went and talked to him about you which I assume they would have and the fact they made the trade for you you got to think his input was in there already it might be. have been and that's something you find out in the hockey world how how truly small it is because I'm sure he put in a call to Dan before they traded for me to ask because I don't think these things I don't think the trigger gets pulled immediately I think these trades they get talked about for a while they do some background research and then of course I get I sign in edmonton while Todd was on Todd McClellan staff in San Jose so there's always there's connections everywhere you know

even now, Winnipeg, you know, Jay Woodcroft was the assistant coach in Ed, but then his brother, Todd Woodcroft, was the assistant coach in Winnipeg. I'm sure they talked, you know, so you, I think the importance of not burning bridges and treating people well and given that particular team or coach your best at all times, that serves you well, you know, down the road. Yeah, I think that's a good piece of advice for any walk of life. Yeah, you never know, right? When I need a job, guys, job soon.

I got one thing to ask before we go into the final segment here. And this is probably a tough subject for all the other fans. Probably a tough subject for you. But Kessler grabbing Talbot's pad in game. Oh boy. No, I'm forgetting. Is that game five? Game five.

Game five. Game five. Was that a tough pill to swallow? Uh, yeah. Because I know you're going to sit there and go, well, you know, we had to win a game and you're going to give the hockey player. But when you look back at that video, it's like, man, how did they miss that one? Like that should have been called back. I think it's interference.

I 100% think it's interference. For me, the worst part of reliving all that is I feel like if I got a little better hand, I get that puck out at the blue line. At the blue line. Yep. You know, even I watch back and they're like, you know, the test you can't get it out. Like that. You know, that sucks. You know, but, you know, that puck's bouncing.

If I'm just a little better with it, you know, you get it out and we're not having this conversation. But to me, that's the part of it that sucks. But yeah, there's interference there. There's no doubt that he's hanging on to him. but I hate the rule altogether. I hate instant replay. I think it's terrible. I'd rather you just lose or you just make a bad call.

I hate the offside replays. I get why they do it, but I just, in getting the call right is what everybody says, but I enjoy the human side of it. I enjoy occasionally having a missed call. And as we've seen, as we're talking about, they don't get it right. So, I mean,

yeah, yeah, you got the, the game so fast, you got the human error of just reps being able to see everything. You got four guys out there trying to do the best they can. But then you got like instant replay that can break it down into like fraction of seconds

of toes crossing lines kind of. And everybody's kind of staring at the screen going, is that, isn't that? And that's where I think for a lot of people are like, man, just this is better 10 years ago. and it was just, you know,

Brett Hall was in the crease. They score, they win. You're mad about it, but what are you going to do? Yeah, and I think there's kind of a phenomenon happening now in our game, especially if you're watching at home. Every time there's a play,

coaches are looking down because they're trying to seem to tell the screens. Yeah. Players are looking at their shifts on iPads. And I think that players are losing the ability to actually think about what they're doing on the ice. you know because they have to make decisions in real time and you're thinking about it out there but you should be able to see it but now you're you don't have to see it because you come back and you look at it on your screen and you're like ah you know what that guy probably could have been there that's not my fault you know he wasn't open or where i i just think players got to be a little more critical and and really understand what they're doing

out there but guys are rushing to get back to the bench and same thing rewind and then well you were Thunder. Did you see me there? No. I'm the 12th forward. I didn't see you there. But on video, like, it's pretty clear. And I just think at times we overanalyze what's going on out there. And the videos become such a big part that you just got to enjoy the game and read and react. When you look back so far, hopefully you get a few games here in playoffs. We get to watch you again. When you look back at your career, what's one of your fondest moments? Like what sticks OAT you? Is it the playoff run in Eminton or is there something else?

Yeah, I mean, there's a couple. The playoff run in Edmonton's awesome. I got more points than Connor McDavid does in the playoffs right now. So that's, I'm better than him. Ha! Bazingo. You know, that was the best hockey I've ever played. And I loved every second of it because I really shoved it up a lot of people's asses

because when I got put on the power play, like, what? Why? So for me, that was, I still remember, because I listen to the radio sometimes, you know, and they get their morning show in Edmonton and Rishog, you know, was just ripping it. Just like I don't think this Letesta experiment's going to work. You know, I don't see it. And, you know, the next day after I put two in against Winnipeg, he's like, well, I was wrong. I was obviously incredibly wrong. And I just, I took a lot of satisfaction in that.

And it just kept going, kept scoring, kept having a good year, and was a really big part of that power play. So for me, that was, that was huge. That was proven a lot of people wrong and showing people that I had the ability to be there. Although when things kind of went sour, the next year, all those people popped up again and said, ha, see? So they win, I guess. And then making the jets this year.

I think when you endure a year in the minors and you question if you can still do it to come to camp and earn a job again, that was really satisfying as well. Going back to you playing on the power play, that was fun to watch. That was really fun to watch. I remember when you got put there and I'm like, I'm always the glass half full. Obviously, the coach sees something, right? Like, I'm not in practice. Let's see what happens. And it felt like every time the puck went in, it was, oh, and there's a little test too again, popping it in.

Isn't that funny? It's working. It was fun to watch that power play. Well, and I think it goes to show that it's, you know, I have no, you know, fantasies about being, you know, in the top five players that should be on the power play. But I think it goes to show that power plays and teams need ingredients. There's certain things. I think you see some power plays. They put the five best players on the ice and it just doesn't look right.

There's just not enough puck for five guys that want it. In that situation, I didn't need it. I'm there to finish. I'm there to shoot the puck. Of all those five guys on the ice, nobody's really a shooter or wasn't at the time. Leon wasn't what he is now. And they were bent on having a right-handed shot. So I knew when the puck came to me to shoot it.

So there was plenty of puck for Leon and Connor to have, and I knew my role. And I think it's just sometimes just the ingredients, you know, that make the power play what it is. And again, guys accepting roles and knowing what it is that they have to do. Well, I'm grabbing an opportunity and running with it. Because there was other guys get put on that power play and it didn't work. Yeah. No, and I've, it's something I've always had that I play on the power player. I played in Pittsburgh playing Columbus.

It's just something I'm good at. It's like the shootout. I remember a reporter asking me why they thought, you know, was I surprised that I went? I was like, no, I'm good at them. Like, look at my numbers. Like, it's like 40%. You know, and it's-

cash money. Sometimes you just, you got to give a stupid answer for a stupid question. What was the dumbest question you've been by a reporter. Oh, the poor guy was here in Columbus. I got traded from Edmonton to Columbus, and Pierre-Luc Dubois was here. He's a young player.

He's 18. And the poor guy, he asked me if I'd ever played with anybody that young with that much, you know, like that had had done that much. Like, he had that much impact on the game. And the poor, like, I'm like, I just came from Edmonton. Connor McDavid.

like hello but that it was just he was trying to he was trying to make his guy and p. he's a great he's a good player oh yeah absolutely he just he just didn't know it's in one of those markets where he didn't know and he asked the question i had to kind of look around and so i gave him i gave him the answer i said yeah just came from there he's better um well we've been going now, I think for about an hour and a half, roughly that. So the time is flying by. It's been an absolute pleasure to have you on. I do a final segment, the Crude Master Final Five, so shout out to Heath and Tracy McDonald. They sponsor, have been sponsors of the podcast since the very beginning. So a huge shout out to them. Just five questions, quick or short as

you like. If you could look back and pick your linemates, you could hop back on a line that you've played on. What line would you go back to playing on? Zach Cassie and Matt Hendricks, one of the two of my best buddies that I played with, best, we have a picture. We were beating the shit out of the flames one night. We had all had points.

And Cass, his personality's starting to come through, like with people in empty, he tell they love him. But he had the, he had the cameraman who sits in between the bench, take a picture of us. The play's going on.

But we posed, like we were posing for anything. we opened up and all three of us down the bench took a picture. And it's those two guys, they mean a lot to me. So I'd play on that line again for sure. Yeah, we all remember casting in the playoffs. He was a treat to watch. It's the best.

It's the best. Do you not drink coffee? Did I read that? I started when I turned 33 and I haven't looked back. I go heavy coffee now. What was the, what was the, what was the turning point? What turned you on a coffee?

You just decided one day, maybe I'll try one. No, the American Hockey League. If you go back at 33, you're going to start trying some stuff. So I had some early mornings. I was driving back. So I live about two hours from Cleveland. So I was driving back and forth every morning. I'd get up at 6.30, get in the car and drive my two hours down 71 to practice.

So I needed some coffee. Well, in that case, if you could have coffee with one guy, one person, whoever it is, who would it be, sit and pick their brain? I'd love to talk to Bob Cole again. That's one of my favorite moments is being an NHL player. I grew up on him like most of us did, listen to him, call games, and for him to come in and interview me and then call a goal of mine. or that was just that's that's the coolest thing ever for a hockey player so i i think to to pick his brain about what he's gone through and some of the stuff he's seen is pretty funny guy so i'm sure he's got some good stories but he would be a guy to have coffee guaranteeed he'd have

some great stories the best the best stories that guy yeah that guy can call a hockey game he still got it yeah what's the last song you'd jam to you with your kids too i just came from home i got three kids under four while the oldest is just over four i guess and uh i know the songs we jam out too so what's the last song you uh had with your kids that is left an impression uh mine are a little older but it's uh i think it's boom by the ex ambassadors so it was on sonic the hedgehog the other day here so we we had that go on and then we put it in the car on the way to the baseball game so they they like that one it gets them going Dad doesn't mind it either.

I'll have to check it out. I always enjoy a little new music and the kids, although they like Frozen and Moana and what other Disney movie you can pick, they do enjoy other songs. I look forward to the days of where you're at. Yeah, it's better. It's better. You mentioned Netflix, a lot of Netflix and Chill.

What has been your show of choice in the last a little bit? Been married 10 years. It's just Netflix. The chill isn't there anymore. Or just not as often. No, right now, I'm trying to get back into Ozark. I haven't. I'm finishing Westworld.

But I've been trying to read a lot of books. So I've been reading a lot of Stephen King. You know, I finished The Outsider and then watched the series. So I just finished the next book on that if it bleeds. So I'm kind of buzzing through books here. Stephen King. Yeah, I got a dark side, so he seems to scratch that itch. Final question for you, and this is going to be a tough one, I suppose, for you, is McDavid or Crosby?

Oof. Probably Sid. And I just think at this point, even now, still, Sid, he's so complete. And he continues to get better. and that's not trying to say that Conner's not what we think he is. You know, he's generational. But I've seen Sid now for a long time, and to me, he's still the best. So he would be the guy that I just see him adjust.

You know, he wanted to shoot the puck better one year, so he decided to go away and shoot the puck and he comes back with a great shot. but they're both there's no bad answer no there's no I think if you if you're skating in a straight line Connor's going to win that race but if you're working along the wall you'd cids your horse all day I think 31 teams would gladly have either one of them and that is right there's no there's nothing there how many more years crosbie got how many more years can he play at the top level like he's doing I mean if a slub like me can make it till 35 he's got at least two. So double, he can go till he's 40. He keeps himself in great shape.

He can play as long as he wants. I don't see any part of his game that isn't there. You know, he still keeps up, still shoots a buck, still smart. So he can play as long as he wants. But as long as he wants is probably the term that's most important. I mean, Nick Liddstrom could still be playing. They just didn't want to anymore. Those guys, sometimes they just burn out. It's time to do something else. Well, I've really appreciated you hopping on with me for a quick one or an interview here tonight. It's been a lot of fun.

I have a new found respect for the town of Elk Point because we had, like I said, before we started going. And shout up to Murray Cochran for hooking me up with your contact details and getting us hooked up so you could hop on. But for a lot of years, Hillmont and Out Point seem to meet each other. in the playoffs every bloody year. And there was a lot of animosity between the two. So I really appreciate you hopping on and sitting in chat with me. It's been a lot of fun.

No, this has been great. Let's do it again sometime. Okay. Thanks again. Hey, folks. Thanks again for joining us today. If you just stumble on the show and like what you hear, please click subscribe.

Remember, every Monday and Wednesday a new guest will be sitting down to share their story. The Sean Newman podcast is available for free on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, and wherever else you find your podcast fix. Until next time.