Shaun Newman Podcast - #881 - Coaching Roundtable

Episode Date: July 9, 2025

I’m joined by Chris King, Morgan Mann and Deb MacArthur to discuss their journey with coaching, lessons they’ve learned and the changes in coaching over the years. Chris King, former head coach of the Lakeland Rustlers women’s basketball team, has 17+ years of experience, including three ACAC Championships and a CCAA Coach of the Year award. He is the current coach of the U18 AAA Lloydminster Lancers. Morgan Mann, head coach of the Lakeland Rustlers women’s hockey team, he has over 30 years of coaching across hockey and rugby. A former national champion and Allan Cup winner.Deb MacArthur won national championships in fastball, competed at the PanAm games, is a 2025 Saskatchewan Sports Hall of Fame inductee and 30+ years of coaching experience. To watch the Full Cornerstone Forum: https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcastGet your voice heard: Text Shaun 587-217-8500Silver Gold Bull Links:Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/Email: [e-mail] Grahame: [phone]Bow Valley Credit UnionWebsite: www.BowValleycu.comEmail: [e-mail] Use the code “SNP” on all ordersProphet River Links:Website: store.prophetriver.com/Email: [e-mail]

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And hopefully I'll have an answer for you sooner than later. I want to remind everybody, you know, for the month of July, we have no Tuesday episode. So if you're going, where was Tuesday? We don't have a Tuesday episode for the month of July, and then Thursdays is throwback. Thursdays, Friday mash up at 10 a.m. Mountain Standard regular time, but Tews has a guest co-host for the month of July as I head off on holidays and I guess continue holidays with the wife and kids. So if you're wondering, that's where, or wondering why, I should say why, there's no Tuesday. That'd be why.

Yeah, we take a little bit of a break here in July and read. recharge the batteries and we'll be ready to roll August 1 have no worries. I think we get back on a Tuesday or on a Tuesday on a it's still there on a on a on a mashup if memory serves me correct. If you're listening or watching on Spotify, Apple, Rumble, YouTube, X, make sure to subscribe. Make sure to leave a review. Make sure to hit the retweet.

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Tale of the tape. The first is the head coach of the U-18, AAA Lloydminster Lancers hockey team. The second, the head coach of the Lakeland Wrestlers women's hockey team. And the third, a decorated fastball coach. I'm talking about Chris King, Morgan Mann, and Deb MacArthur. So buckle up. Here we go. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast.

Got always silence old Chris over there. I'm joined by Morgan Mann. Deb MacArthur and Chris King. Folks, thanks for hopping in the studio tonight. Thank you, welcome. Well, I came up with, I was thinking about this idea of like a coaching roundtable. We've done lots of blue-collar roundtables.

I've done a trucking roundtable with dad and a few other trucking guys. And so, you know, I'm new into coaching and just little guys, right? So U-7 hockey and U-9 baseball now. And, you know, I thought, why not get some wisdom in here and try and light, enlighten myself. I was just telling you folks before we started that, you know, when I first started coaching U7 hockey, I went to hockey Alberta training. And one of the most important things to learn was that, you know, these kids, these five and six-year-olds are just starting kindergarten. So, you know, school for the first time, being away from the family, and then first graders. So they're

actually at full-time school. And, you know, sometimes when they get through that week, well, we have kids. We've all seen it. We've all seen the ups and downs, ebb and flows. And so I treated U7 with a little bit of, you know, like, don't expect them to be all Wayne Drecksky. It's just try and create a fun environment to deal with kids getting off the school bus and then trying to give them a fun environment. Anyways, that's where I wanted to start. I wanted to start with, you know, maybe a little bit about yourself. It's a long time since you were on here.

It was episode 14 when you and Merv first came on where it like 800 and something. Deb, it's your first time. And Chris, you've been joining some of the brothers roundtables recently. Not a brother. Not a brother. Correct. So I thought we'd start ladies first. We'd give Deb the spotlight. And just a little bit about yourself, Deb, so the audience can get to know who they're listening to. How many years you've been coaching? And maybe just maybe one of your first experiences in coaching, I don't know. You must have a memory or two. Well, I came into coaching following my, basically in fastball, softball, because that was the sport that I excelled in and played for a number of years, had great opportunity of winning a national, going to Pan Am games in Puerto Rico. So I had a lot of background in ball, and after I got married, I decided that, um,

I couldn't do the travel. So I thought I'd pick up on coaching. I actually picked it up on what they would call today, U-15, in a group out of Marshall and boys. And I coached with Dan Dunham at the time. We were out there. And during that time, I actually had a daughter, Kristen. And we used to go to the park, and Dan would carry her under his arm as we went along. So and all the parents would take her while we were coaching.

That's how hard up they were for a coach. But, you know, my experience was, it was different. I had to learn in this group, the boys were actually concerned about how they looked, which was a shock to me because as a female softball player, we didn't care. And so I had to do a few little tricks before the game would start. I'd actually make them do head first slides to get dirty. So they weren't too concerned about the game and playing the game. So I guess that's kind of a funny story, but it was also a learning that you have that

I needed them to get beyond that is their hair in the right place. And I wasn't prepared for that with the male athletes. I thought that'd be a no-brainer. So I started there, and then I actually... went into coaching the would have been U-18 girls. And I don't know if you remember the same, but one of top chucker was Toby Blackburn and very competitive group of young ladies

and we did very well, went to a number of nationals. And I guess I've just always coached in that area and I carried that forward until it was time to pick up and start coaching my own kids. And I actually started, so I'm with your group, with Clark in, I don't know what you guys would have been, what they call them now, would have been U-7, U-8. Mites.

Yeah, yeah. I've been trying to figure out what Mites was. I think that was U-7. It was very young. Well, you went, you went Mite, then Squirt, didn't you? Yeah, and then Peewee. And then Pee-wee and then Bantam. Pee-we was like 13, 14.

So you, it would have been a very young. Probably 7-8-9 or something. Yeah, somewhere in that neighborhood. Tom thumb, Mighty Mites, Mites, Peeway. Yeah. Right. On the hockey side. Yeah.

So, for ball. Yeah. And, I mean, I even had some experience of coaching and hockey. I mean, I have a hilarious story about that one, but I'll let everyone else have a chat. Well, no, you can't. Oh, I got to go. Well, you can't just say that. Now I'm going to think about it.

Dean, my husband was coaching Clark in his hockey when they were very young. And so if, and he was coaching with Greg Chapman. So if they didn't show up, the deal was if they didn't show up, then Deb and I would go out and coach. And so here I am getting ready. It was Christmas time. It was concert time. And I was trying to get to the school. And it was about five.

And Dean's not home. And Clark's getting impatient because they always dressed in their outfits at home. So anyway, I said, well, I guess I'm going to go. I guess I'll have to coach. And he said, well, are you sure dad's not coming home? And I said, yeah, I'm pretty sure he's not coming home, but we don't have a bunch of time. So let's get going. So then he gets to the door and he says to me, he says, well, at least tie your hair back.

And I said, okay. I said, but I'll tell you what, when you get on the ice and I tell you to skate, you skate. Because I'm the coach when we get there. But it was funny. Like he was not wanting his mom on the ice. know, and then we actually had to coach a couple of times. So the miracle was it was around Halloween time and had extra candy left over. And we were in a tournament in Maidstone.

So Deb and I, Deb Chapman and I decided we're going to, we want them to pass puck and they weren't passing the puck. So the deal was, you know, every time you pass the puck, you're going to get a treat. Well, the puck was all over the ice. And we actually won that tournament. It was the first time they'd won with two female coaches. So, you know, lots of funny things happen, but adaptation seems to be the big thing, you know,

with whatever group that you have, you, I found as a coach it wasn't about me. I had to adapt to how was I going to get the best out of each player that I had, and how was I going to grow with them? Like growing an athlete is probably the most part, powerful thing that you can do is, you know, when they started at a certain level and the end at a level higher. And I think that for me, that was always my goal.

That's awesome. Morg. Those are hard words. Yeah. Yeah. Great start. Well, how many, you've been a guest in here. You and Merv came in, episode 14.

That was a ton of fun. That was in the old dungeon where I'm pretty sure people thought I was taking them out to kill them out a little outside of Lloyd Minster because that was a special place. Everybody's got to get their start. But when we talk, we'll give the audience a little bit of your background. And then how many years have been coaching and I don't know, fun memory from when you first started because I assume we're all very similar then. And when you first walked in and you're the coach and you got some funny, funny things

that happened and they probably stick out. Well, born and raised here just north of Lloyd Minster and grew up playing. every sport I could. I was fortunate to have parents that could, you know, got me into sports and supported that. And hockey was the main focus, but we did everything that we could ball in the summer and a little bit of some ranch rodeoing and everything we could, if it was active, we were, we'd try and be involved. Meaning we, my brother, and I. And so I think sometimes having a sibling that you can compete with inspires you a little bit, that competitive edge. So if it wasn't formal at a venue somewhere, we'd be competing at home,

up in the loft, shooting puck's one person goalie, one person the shooter. So a love of sports started real early. And then it's a natural fit, I think, with teaching and going into the teaching profession. So right out of, right out of university, I first got a start in coaching, I guess, helping Brent Dallin with the Steeler program. In the very first years, it got up and running. And Brent was the person who sort of got behind that and got it started and saw a need for it. They just celebrated, there was before the ESO Cup a celebration for the Steelers in, I think, In 2000 is when that program started. It's been going 25 years.

25 years. That's great. Right in that number. Yeah. It was a rounded off number. Maybe it was 2005. But it was, yeah, it's been around. And so we, that was very enjoyable.

Brent was also, I was involved with Brent with the Border Kings at that time. And so, and I just have always been, if there was open ice or a chance to, whether it was to out and help coach or work with young people or get out and play shenny. I still love coaching today, I think, as much to hit the fresh sheet of ice as much as the players. I just love the competition of being out there on the field, whether it's on the ice or in the arena. And then in my internship or my, no, my first job out of university was at Lashburn High School. and I ran into, they had a really special staff. I would have put that staff at that time up against any staff

and any high school staff anywhere. At that, not at that time, but the principal at the time is now my father-in-law, Doug Abrossema. But, and I mean, he coached, he's coached Deb, and I'm sure Deb will speak at some point about Doug. And an old school principal where you, you're not only where the principal, you're coaching the soccer team, you're running the student leadership group, you're just really involved. And I've, I've, that's a philosophy that's,

sort of, I've tried to emulate in some ways that a teacher should be super involved. It's a time you spend outside of the classroom that you really can have an effect with, with students and make a difference. And so, Murray McDonnell, in Lashburn introduced me to the sport of rugby. And I was, this is a guy who'd never played, never played the sport of rugby, but it was in his wife's family, in their lineage and part of their history and who they are. And that's a whole other story, which you'd interviewed Murray at one time. Forgive me for looking on my phone.

I know that's bad etiquette. You have the whole history on record, but it's quite a story. Anyway, going out with Murray and to his practices, I was just blown away on a couple of different things. One, a guy who'd never played his knowledge of the game. I'm a big believer. You don't have to have played a sport to be a good coach of it. It's about how you are with people. But he'd read everything there was written on the sport and knew it inside and out.

So he was well prepared that way. But just how he treated his athletes and how much they respected him, that was a drawing card. And I also love the sport how it's, it can. And so since then, I've had a rugby program. I'm going into my 30th year of teaching next year. And I've had a rugby program for 27 years. And I love the sport just about as much as hockey. And in a school, I love it more.

because it doesn't cost any money. It can humble the school bully and it can give confidence to young people who never thought they had it in them. And there's no offense, defense. Everybody, when you're on defense, if you're not holding the line with the person right next to you, you've got a problem.

And so I've never seen had students on a rugby team who didn't all get along the sense of respect among each other after a game. It's just next level because I think that's what you get a little bit with combative physical sports. But it's really a sport where you have to work together and there's no sense of the offense is more important than the defense, especially defending in that sport when you're all standing together in one line and

and if you're not then you know you're only as strong as the next person beside you that it's just I can't say enough about it and and I give Murray I mean if you they've kept a program going in Lashburn and they've named named the field after Murray when I got to when I got to interview and we did it in my wife teaches out at the elementary school So we got to do it in front of the entire school. Yeah. And they kept bringing kids in front of it. It was a little intense.

It's like episode like 30 folks. I don't know. You have to go back and find it. And I, you know, like I was pretty fresh into the old podcasting gig and all these kids come in and were watching a podcast. Because back, even six years ago, nobody knew what the heck a podcast was. Right? He's like, what are we doing?

And it was a, I should go back and listen to that interview because that was something. He, uh, very special guy. Yeah. And he could do the. same he could take he would always have a music group perform at Mardi Gras he would take young students that have never picked up an instrument or had anything to do musically before in their lives and the noble boys I think from Hylmond that they were I've heard one of them I could forget which one of the boys but one of many that he

would introduce them to music and next thing you know they're performing at the Mardi Gras and they're kind of the hit hit performers so just very talented but he if you the respect that his players had to keep the program going or we were there on the night they named the field after him and so the amount of people that came back to pay you know to pay the respects to Murray and speak and just from all different places now because he would draw from Lloyd to Maidstone like Kent Staniforth played for for Murray to send Lack to a pretty big area but they could compete with Regina, Edmonton, Calgary. One provincial is a number of times.

And to the audience member, what's the, what's the population on Lashburn? 900? The school would be a 1A school, so it's under 100 in the school, right? Yeah, it's not. Under 100 in the high school. Under 100 in the high school. Yeah. Which is crazy.

Yeah. Well, Murray told me back then, he said the leg up they had on all the big centers was they didn't start working on rugby until like grade nine. Maybe I'm off by year. And they started kids in like grade two or three. He said, so by the time we get to grade nine, we have six years or six or seven years on all these kids. We just know what we're doing. And so they can have all the kids in the world, but if they don't know how to play together, then you walk in in this little town of Lashburn that, you know, it's got 100 kids in the high school, runs them over. I've heard Deb speak about this. The great thing about small town sports is you have some special coaches that teach individuals who maybe aren't necessarily would be athletes in a bigger center, but they need the bodies. And so it's amazing how sometimes these coaches can take somebody who maybe you didn't think they were an athlete and teach them what they need to know about the game. and sometimes they become like really top-end players.

And they never would have had that opportunity if it wasn't for being starting in a town or on a team where they just need you to fill out the uniform. Before we get to that conversation, because I really want to ask about that. Chris, I better allow you to at least say a couple words. I'm just listening. Yeah, well.

This is great. Yeah. So many of these points were great because it brought up memories in my head. So my history, I've been on here before, so we don't really need my full history. I don't think. True, true.

I grew up in Kit Scottie, so my dad was a teacher. We had a really cool thing in Kit Scottie as well that all of the teachers were kind of brought into coach. And it was more that way back in the day. If you were hired, they expected you to coach a sport.

And all of the teachers all had their kids within three years. I don't know what happened during those years. So I had a bunch of friends that were all teachers' kids. And so my life was going, with dad to school at 7 a.m. And then being a badminton practice, being a volleyball practice, being a bad boy, being on the bench at hockey.

So I was just, I was a little sport rat just hauled around all the time. And then that translated into, at early ages, I played all the sports just like Morg said, volleyball, cross country, hockey. I didn't start playing basketball till later. And basketball ended up being the sport. I think I started in grade nine. And that's the sport I ended up going and playing university. but I was just around coaches and teachers all the time.

And I think you pick up so many cool things just being in that environment and just seeing it. And all of my dad's athletes were like my role models. I just emailed one here this year. Corey Woke, he played goal for the Blazers. And he would have been eight or nine years older than me. And I just remember all these memories of me shooting Pucks out in the driveway. My brother didn't maybe have the work ethic. that I wanted him to have.

So I'd shoot pucks by myself all the time. And Corey was playing juniors and he would put on his gear and come put down a sheet of puckboard and he would play goal. And I would just shoot on him and he'd come out. He didn't need to do that. And he would come out for hours and just do that for, I'm sure his mom told him to do it or something. But like he just walked across the street and did that.

So those, I think sports so cool because it can change your whole life. As Morg's talking about those kids that wouldn't have been on a team. end up being a part of a team and it changes their trajectory. So yeah, I had a cool experience that way. So I've been coaching in this community since I came back from university assistant coached for a year at Lakeland. And then I head coached women's basketball team for 17 years. I also head coached our U18 AAA baseball team.

I've had assistant coached our U-16 liner softball team. I've coached U7 hockey with you. I've helped out with U11 hockey. I'm now coaching U11B. girls fastball which is awesome it's a real test of my patience but you know what I came home from practice last week and I was like these girls got me like I like this crew now like I like this little group of girls and yeah and then I'm coaching the u 18 uh triple a lancers here this year so I've been able to coach a lot of different things I do remember my first coaching experience uh when I started head

coaching college and I was 24 years old and at that time I think like lots of young coaches, maybe, when you come out of playing, I thought I knew everything. And the older you get, the more you realize you know nothing and you just constantly need to keep learning, right? But as a young coach, I got all the answers and then you realize, holy moly, I don't know how to do any of the stuff or translate it to these athletes and figure out what makes them click. So yeah, that's my story. Okay. That is the, now it can be a come a true roundtable. So don't please bring it back to me.

I'm just going to, I'm just going to cede the question and let you guys debate this. talk about it. You were talking about rugby and how in small towns, sometimes the athlete becomes the athlete. So one of the things I've noticed in coaching really young sports is at the start, it is an elite, right? You're not paying whatever the number is anymore to go play elite hockey. You're just playing U7 hockey, which means everybody and their kids comes and plays. And so you got like the superstar who could score and we bribed them with Timbitz to get my son his first goal this year and he must have worked he worked hard of that day shout out to teague because he worked hard of that day that i've ever seen and he's a good

little worker but he tried getting casey the puck over and over and over and over again then they finally scored and everybody let up big cheer and that was timbits that did that my question is you got a bunch of athletes and then you got a bunch of i don't i don't know what to call them because i'm like under certain circumstances i feel like they might learn something new in it and they might start going but how on earth do you unlock that lockbox of different children at such a young age where they come and, you know, I go back to their start a kindergarten or they start a grade one or there's things going on you couldn't possibly imagine and they come out and they lollygagging to the

infield and they lollygaggaggag back to the bench and you're like, do I yell at the kid? Do I not yell at the kid? Do I, how do you, I don't know, that's where I want to start. How do you work around because the kids that are go-getters, you don't have to hardly prod them. It's actually more of trying to rain them in half the time. I'm wondering about the other kid, the kid that kind of maybe slips through the cracks as you go up and plays City League or whatever it was back in your day.

Well, I think that's a, excuse me, sorry, phones ringing here. That's probably a question that I'm not sure, you know, anybody would have the real answer for. That's a good one. but just some some takeaways I would have, Sean, is I think coaching on the flip side of trying to grow the athlete or having all the bodies to fill out a team in a small town. Sometimes, well, I would say that my toughest coaching, most rewarding in many ways, but the toughest spot to coach would be coaching in Hillmont just because, there's three different levels of hockey player or in a small town, like whether it's volleyball, basketball, whatever your sport is,

is that on each of those teams, there's a tier one player, tier two, tier three. And so that can be, that's hard because if you're trying to make everybody feel involved and I believe at a young age you should all get, you know, good opportunity to play. but if you're just good enough to be, you're competitive and you're trying to take a, you have a chance to win a league title, and maybe that's, you know, just even the Steppe League, it's sometimes harder to divvy out that ice and to, you've got players that are just chomping at the bit, they're little gamers and some that are pretty disinterested. My first year of coaching out there, we had a young fellow that he would go out and face down onto

the ice because he was ice fishing he was looking for ice or looking for fish below the ice surface like that kid and so it's just so I don't think that there's that's a that's not an easy one to sort out at that time we you know you just maybe you're you're trying to shuffle around your players to level things out I know in some communities and I would name them too from Irma, Dewberry, Edam, some communities sort that out real early. It appeared to me that if you weren't real interested or keen, you just didn't play.

And that's, yeah, I mean, each place to their own philosophy, but because there are some players who may, where you start isn't always where you finish. And I really think that as an athlete, or even as a learner in school, after puberty, you know, lots of changes will happen for an adolescent. And I've seen lots of kids who aren't super aggressive and when they're involved in a game or, you know, an overly good work ethic.

But then, you know, when they go through body changes in puberty and as a 15, 16-year-old, we have a different athlete. You know, I think sort of what I'm hearing you say is, you know, you've got these group kids and you've got some really skilled kids and you've got some really unskilled kids. Maybe never been introduced. Maybe never had that skill set at home, anyone playing ball with them or hockey or whatever. But I do remember, and it wasn't even necessarily that I was coaching, but seeing those groups, especially in hockey, and they're all on the ice, some can't even skate. But I think for me, as a coach, what you look at at that point, especially when they, at the younger age, they're not doing that rep right away,

is build the skills in any way that you can with games. Like anything that would simulate, you know, what you might do in the game, but unbeknown to them. And I remember some of the practices that I would go and even watch. And, you know, they were doing all sorts of things with balls and different things even on the ice. And nobody really knew that they were learning the skills. But it was amazing that you had to have in hockey,

the patience of importance would be getting the young athlete to skate. If you can't skate, you can't play that game. So number one would be even just getting them to skate, play tag, whatever it is, even the skilled players in a situation like that a practice love to play tag. You know, in ball, it was the same thing. Some could throw them and catch. Some, you know, didn't even know how to hold the ball. I mean, I remember I hadn't coached for a few years

and I was asked to come and coach these. Would have been U-10 or around that age group. And they hadn't really played ball a whole bunch. So I had them all lined up, throwing the ball, throwing the ball, showing them how to throw the ball. And, you know, like any questions, you guys, you know, hand goes up. and one of the players said, are we going to have a mascot?

And I was like, oh, where am I? And it was like that realization that what I thought was important, you know, like obviously for them. And I did jokingly say, yeah, we'll be you. But in, you know, then I realized it was just you have to take all of that in with what you're doing. And we just did that, like in practice, it was just steady, you know, those skills. And the older kids, you can do higher level skills, like the ones that have the skill set. But I sort of always did my coaching there. And then if we got into the game, then it was a different level. Like that part was left for later. But, you know, you did the best you can. You

put in the players. And it's so different. Like when you're, what you're talking about, I think about most of my coaching was what they would consider rep level. And so, you had competitive people. They tried out for the team and, you know, like your lowest skilled player in the team was still very skilled. So I think it's just a whole different mindset that you have to have when you have that group of kids. You are growing those athletes. And so for those that appear to be not interested, how can you make it fun? You know, I mean, they're not all going to be top athletes, but I can guarantee you.

to you this, unless you're playing individual sport, there is no top athlete that will build a play without that supporting crowd. And so whatever their level is, and I mean, they always say there's no eye and team. And to me, that's what that means is I can love a sport, but if I can't have a body of people that want to play that game with me, I don't have a game. So it's really important. enemy even for those kids that have the higher level skill. They need those other people on that ice or they don't have a team. What's your favorite hockey drill, Sean? So me and Chris coached together one year of U7 hockey,

or my oldest and your oldest. My oldest too, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, played together. And I was, you know, this first time I ever coached, so I was, you know, I look around and I got you and I had Colter and someone else really good as well

oh man that's terrible anyways I'm looking at these two guys I'm like you guys are like you've been doing this forever why am I the coach no no no you got this I'm like no no you must have a drill or two so we took wolves and sheep

from uh basketball basketball has this game and wolves and cheap anyways anyone who's been on the ice with me over the last I think it's been four seasons now oh man I think it's been four seasons of you seven and I don't know if my sanity, I didn't think my sanity could handle that,

but I think it has been. And one of the drills that I've kept has been wolves and cheap. It's been taken from a basketball court and put on the ice surface. And we've actually added in additional things, right? You start out without the puck, and then you move towards where you have the puck.

And all it is is a very simple game of tag. It's just, it's just perfect. Yeah, you have a pasture, you're safe, and they always love following the shepherd wherever it takes them, and then the wolves go and they try and steal the puck or tag them at the start when they can't skate. and yeah, well, I mean,

they got so much better at skating from that. I tell you what, as a coach, I have fun doing it. Yeah. Right? I mean, I'm. But they're not aware of their learning. No, they're just having fun. They're just having fun.

And that's, yeah, I think that's the key thing, especially when you're talking about those younger ages and Deb touched on it, it's you hook them with fun, right? And you give them the skills and they don't know they're doing them. Yeah. Because you do have that wide range, right? And think about that team we're on. We had some kids that were going hard,

for hockey already. We had my daughter who was just there to make a friend and just, you know, lolly gagging around. Like there's a wide range. But if it's fun and they grow a love for the sport, who knows what happens later on, right? You want to keep the biggest base of people playing your sport at a young age for the filter down later. So I think the biggest thing with that range is keeping it fun, like make it fun. They want to come back. You just try to hook them at that young age.

Well, let's flip it around then. you had a son who would have been at the top of our entire age group. How did you control, you know, him, I assume at times he's like, come on, let's do this. And the rest of the group is over here. And it's like, well, you've got to come back here just a little bit. You know, when you're talking about the elite athlete of the group, how did you get them to buy into the group? Well, I think it depends on the elite athlete. Like maybe people wouldn't know this and I'll have to answer to this later.

But Clark did not see himself as an elite athlete. He was always concerned every year about making a team or, you know, so he just loved being around the other people. He just loved the game. He didn't care about what you were doing. He never demanded like I need more. And, you know, to be honest, if he wanted more, he would go with his dad and they would get some rink time and do things like one-on-one and that type of thing. But his joy was just being out with whatever group of guys that were out there and never, ever, ever complained about, you know, I wasn't doing enough.

I mean, he just thought whatever he was doing was enough. So I guess we were like fortunate that way that, I mean, often we would tell him, you know, you have to, you know, be, you don't feel like you trust yourself that you've got these skills, but he never did. You know, like he honored people around him quite a bit. And, you know, that's just who he was. He did his own practice. Like he would, I remember one time we took him out to Bud Miller Park, and I dropped him off at 9 in the morning, and then I came back at noon,

and he'd already played three or four different shinnies games with different groups. I had to drag him off the ice to get him to eat, and he was mad at me. And then, you know, then he would play until it was dark. I'd come get him at night, and he was mad at me again. You know, like, couldn't I just stay one more hour? So I think he fed him. himself just by what he did on his own. Yeah, I mean in ball, that was kind of a different thing because people worked in their own areas of, you know, whether they're outfield, infield, pitchers, catchers, whatever.

So, you know, even if you're a top athlete in that, you kind of just do your work in that area and improve on it. and you give, you know, whatever you can. And, yeah, we didn't have that problem. I guess that would be my answer, you know. I would add to that, Deb, just, I think it's also, it's an opportunity as obviously you guys did in Raising Clark. It's navigating that. It's an opportunity to teach those life lessons on how to be a good teammate

and to be humble and to, and because they can, A good athlete can make, inspire other players to be, to raise their game or to enjoy the game and to keep playing and to get the best out of them. And I think it helps them to be, you know, it's an opportunity for them to grow their character side of being a young person too, to moving forward. You know, that you're, you have to be a good teammate. and sometimes sharing it a little bit. Yeah, no, I agree. I'd like to take credit for it, but honestly, like, he just wanted to be one of the guys in the group.

Yeah. So I think he just loved the team stuff. He just loved being with whatever group, you know, how you guys were, whatever group you were with, those are your best friends for that season. So, yeah, I think it could be a problem, But I would say I was very fortunate that I didn't have to deal with that. I do think that elite athletes usually figure on that trajectory,

usually figure out a way to get more ice time or court time or whatever it is. And they usually end up drawing someone with them. So like you talk about shinny. Like I just, I remember going to shinny all the time because I was playing with all the older boys. And I really think just playing is lost now on this youth generation. They don't get to go out and play and do those. types of things but whatever sport it was eventually like one or two or three guys would start coming out every Sunday to shinny they'd start skipping church like I was and going to

shinny and just playing for three hours or whatever it's the same thing when I like basketball I finally got you know my brother to come in every once and while if you could wait like those athletes tend to draw people to them and they find a way how to motivate themselves even if they're not necessarily getting that all the time in the practice I think that there's just a drive with a lot of those athletes, my personal opinion on that. You mentioned this generation and how things have changed. You've all coached, I'm not dating any of you, but you've coached a lot of different age groups. Have you seen, I mean, obviously you've seen changes.

I mean, since I went to college, I didn't have a cell phone. And now, like, you know, I'm told that a kid has to have a cell phone at X age, and I'm like, I'm going to fight that war, but I'll wait until they get there. I mean, how have the athletes changed? And do you think your coaching tactics have had to adapt to the changes in generations? You guys have the most algal last on this again. I think that as a parent group, the change has been that parents had expectations of their kids to go out there and work hard and take their lumps. And that's not the case right now.

we sort of are in a situation and it's not just in coaching it's in school it's in life where for some reason we don't want people to have to be upset about anything and you know that's what builds adversity i mean you have to learn and i'd rather you know my students or my my athletes learn at a young age that's not always going to be a great day like sometimes we're going to win, sometimes we're going to lose, sometimes you're going to play, sometimes you're not going to play. And that's a part of life that I think that we're losing out on. I mean, you'll never get fair play. Like, I can treat you fairly, but it doesn't mean you're going to play all the time or, you know, you can't sort of balance the books and say everybody had the

amount of time. Now, especially when you're in rep situations. Like I think if I'm coaching and it's kids, growing kids in a program, everybody's going to play. Everybody's going to go hard. But I think when I was coaching and, I mean, you can speak to that, Sean, because I coached you, everybody knew that they were going to get to play, but it didn't mean that they were going to get to play equal time. And the parents knew that also. It was kind of an accept-a-rule. So even if you did have to confront some of that, it was not, I would say, as it is today.

So different scenario. We're trying to help students or athletes learn skills and to play a game, but we don't want to hurt their feelings. And there's a fine line there where I think it's all right to take a little hard knocks. I would rather all of my athletes take them at a young age while they have the support around them

than to have those hard knocks when they're on their own. I found, so coaching U-9 baseball the last two years, this year we implemented a bunch of different rules, but in the first year of coaching it, we, now it's not rep, it's just City League, but we didn't do out. And I found, And so I'm butchering this.

So like if you hit the ball and you got thrown out first, half the time we'd keep the person on first so they could learn how to run the basis. That was the thought process. But then I spent more energy trying to explain to my son or his friend or any of the group of the team when they threw the person out why they weren't out. And I'm like, if the rule takes more time to try and explain to the team

of why this is going, I think the kid can, it's okay to have a couple tears. you got thrown out and carry on because it's part of the game. And I've found this year we've added in outs and there has been some tears. But I find that tears are very short-lived because once they realize they can get the other team out and get in and start batting, man, then everybody's engaged. But, you know, when you go back to society and how we don't want to hurt any feeling. I don't think anybody coach wants to go out and hurt feelings.

You want kids to have fun. But at some point, the rules of the game have to come in because, that's what makes the game fun. I don't know. I mean, I'm just new to this, so maybe I'm wrong. No, I don't think so. I think that you want to be careful how much you massage reality. And I still think sports, the greatest venue,

to teach those lessons that if you don't work hard, you don't play as much. If you don't have the same commitment, if you choose to come to every second practice, you just don't have as maybe you miss a game. I think that's what we all should want as parents or coaches out of sport, an opportunity to grow people. And so some of those reality lessons, like they're important.

I think that for today's athlete, I think it's hard. With social media, you talked about phones, I can't imagine, and I know how addictive they can be even for. adults and I catch myself at times on the phone too much and so I think that's a huge stressor for young people and that's just changing the playing field in every way knowing how to manage that and manage your mental health with with social media and and the need to respond and to I can't I mean I wouldn't even know where to begin with some of it but it's that's a it's a

Again, going back to sport, it's still the best place for to get some of those lessons or for to have a coach to help teach you some of those things, those soft skills, that when somebody sends you a text, the expectation is respond and not with an emoji. Or when you see your teammate or one of the coaching staff, you look them in the eye and you say hello or greet them. I even find at school having to teach kids when they get off the bus and walking in, you can say good morning to some kids and good kids, but some don't know to say hello back.

And so I think the role of the teacher or the coach is, it's even more important today to teach those soft skill lessons because they're not getting them. Unfortunately. What do you equate that to, Mark? Why aren't they getting them? Is that just the phone? Is that the role of devices?

Yeah, I think it's a huge role, but there's got to be more to it than just that. I don't know. Maybe somebody else, but I would just add also that, like, I think that it's evolved too. Like, I can remember as a student if you, you know, you messed up in class or you got into trouble writing, lines on the chalk border, even in elementary school, being maybe, I don't know, you're not all. We got a couple ruler hits. Yeah, right.

I, you know, stand in the corner. Miss Miguel spanked me. Or we're, we'll never forget that. Who? Miss Miguel. Yeah, some names. She was an old trusty bird. You know, there's a happy medium there.

You know, like where, like you said, where you went through that time when it was, not, I don't think I even look at it now would never be acceptable. I mean, I was a principal for so many years. Never did I ever strike a student. But I think that there's a way of, of, and that's sort of a coaching role too, is coaching people and getting them take responsibility. And I have a great story and I shared it with Morg, but this is, when Clark was playing a mess and had,

Willie Dijardin was his coach. just an awesome man and he I remember we were at a game one time and you could say Clark wasn't that focused I think he got a 10 minute and it wasn't for good behavior anyway after the game

Willie said to him they played the next day I want to see you the next morning 8 o'clock in the morning bring a teammate so when Clark came back after the meeting I said to him well are you playing you know, today, and he goes, yes. But then he told me the story. So he goes in with his teammate,

and Willie talks to Clark about how he wasn't playing for the team, and he got distracted, and whatever. And so this, this, I love the way he did this. He said, so here's your choice. He said, you can take a one game suspension, because the league wasn't suspending him, but the team was, Willie was. and he said you can take a one game suspension or you can choose to play tonight. Now we were there, so that might have been a factor. But you can choose to play tonight. But if you do this again, then it's a two game.

And he chose to play. So the beauty of that that I saw was Clark didn't leave that meeting going, oh, the coach is a loser, you know. Willie turned that on to him. You take responsibility and you commit, why was the teammate there? Probably as a witness too, but also you're committing to that teammate.

And he sat in that room and heard you say that you're going to play for the team tonight. And I thought, how empowering is that? Like, if you think about all of your athletes that you work with, the ones that are, you know, they need that.

talk because, you know, it's not everybody on the team that creates a problem. But if they're off the rail or whatever, you just think about how that can rein them in, but they don't leave angry. You know, you've had a good opportunity to share that you're obviously not pleased with the choices they made. But, you know, I just think there's a way that we can always do that in coaching. That tool, I just loved the way he did that. And I think I loved it because that's how I worked with people. I just felt like it was so nice to see that he had embraced that. But I mean, he was, he demanded hard work, commitment. I mean, I think that's the whole thing, maybe the difference with some of the kids. But I know I coached young athletes that didn't really want to be

there. The parents brought them there. And so that's a struggle, you know, just trying to engage them. And like you said, Chris, keep it fun, you know. But I like the way Willie handled that whole situation. I think it's important to make your athletes responsible for the choices they make. But in a respectful way. Well, I wasn't a poster child. So when I think of the coaches and teachers that I still hold on a, you know, place on a pedestal today

is the ones that approached me that way with discipline or with coaching is that, you know, that with grace and we're hard and firm, but I still had a, you know, kept, it was, it was left me feeling like coach or teacher likes me and cares about me, but this is a life lesson and, and we both left feeling a sense of, you know, mutual respect I guess knowing Willie too I was just going to say my brother-in-law played for Willie and love loved Willie he's got very good stories

special guy yeah okay on the to Moore's point because it made me think about one incident that we had with our players that was super impactful on two girls I'll tell the story after but the instant gratification has been a huge change the checking the likes and the posts and stuff like that, at least over my years of coaching college,

because they see everyone signing or getting this or getting this. So they see the posts or player of the games or whatever. And that affects the mental side of things a lot. Now, if they don't get enough likes? Yeah, if they don't get enough likes for sure. And like I've had players come to my office to ask why Morg was on the cover of the poster or why so-and-so was like these things to them matter a lot. And this is what I'm talking about, our generation.

we did not care or no or need to know. We didn't have any likes. Yes. Yeah. For sure. We didn't have any posts. So that's like the first thing I would say that's changed over my time. Once again, it's probably changed more over your guys this period of time.

The other thing is kids aren't really allowed to fail anymore. And I think this is a, I don't, I'm a parent. So at fault as well, I don't think the parents let the kids fail and figure out how to tread water a lot of times because there's so many other options, like just going through this hockey thing right now. no one really wants to try out for our team. They just want a spot. Everyone wants a guaranteed spot. And if not, they got this option or this option or this option or this option.

And they're all available. And so these kids are used to going through this process of like having all these other options. And I think some of the most impactful things for me and a lot of athletes is when you did get cut or when you did fail, because then you have to work your ass off to get on that next level or to make the team the next year. year, right? So those are the things that I've noticed. On that note, we had an incident who would have been about 2018 or 2019, Jaden Cook, and she's told this story. She was a freshman. And this is when we're just really, we had some good teams, but we didn't win. And I couldn't really put my finger on it because I felt like our talent was probably close, and we just couldn't do it in playoffs. And she came in and Haley Summers, and they ended up playing for me for almost eight years

with COVID, so maybe a little bit before that. And we do a thing after a drill, you shoot free throw, so it's like simulating pressure, right? If you don't make it, you got like two down and backs as a group, right? So you got to get 75%. So the team says, if we don't hit 75%, we do two down and backs. So Tori Dugan was out at the time. She had an ACL, and the girls shoot, and usually I go around and just try to talk to people. And Tori goes to me and the assistant coach.

She's like, I think the girls are cheating. And I'm like, no. No. She's like, there are some girls that put up two that didn't make any shots. And I was like, no way. Like our culture is better than that. So I'm like, okay, I'll tell you what, next time we shoot after the drill's done, I'm going to go in the equipment room and pretend like I'm grabbing something. Let me know if it happens again. So anyways, I go in the equipment room. It happens.

So then I call them on it right there and we have a big discussion. Anyways, I talked to Jaden Haley in the office about like accountability and like how this isn't right. And both girls are crying and stuff. And I got a phone call. I never really got phone calls from parents at college. You just don't deal with parents ever, really. I got a phone call from her mom.

So her mom and dad both played university basketball, University of Regina. And she phoned me and she said, thank you so much for today for calling Jade out. This is going to be such an impactful moment in her life. Thanks for talking to the girls afterwards about this. She's like, she needs to understand her decisions have consequences. she's like, I think this is going to make her so much better.

Of course, after that, one of our hardest workers, she was an all-star for us, played forever. But it was like one of those cool things that like, phone call from my parent, you're like, oh my gosh, like what's happening here? But she made her kid take accountability for cheating and setting the group up for failure. And I thought that was a pretty, like, cool thing that happened.

That was still like middle of the road in my career. Yeah. Dumb question. And you coaching the Lancers, Maybe you can, and more you could, well, all three you. When I was growing up, you'd go try out for a team. It was always in the fall. I feel like you had conditioning camp, and then you went and tried out,

and then they posted the results, and, you know, sometimes you made it, sometimes you didn't, and that was just kind of the way it is. This whole, like, skating for the entire summer, and is that new? Or am I just getting old? Or is that something? I can't tell you when it started, but I can tell you right now, our fall camp is August 24th to 28th, but we've skated, we had a main camp,

and we've signed some kids, and we skate twice a week. We're done for, we got to skate on Saturday, then we're done until August, but it's, it's, you don't show up, like,

and hope to get a spot. Like, this is what I'm talking about. Lots of these kids are phoned and asking. I'm like, I don't know. Like, you got to show up. You got to try out. Like, you're on the bubble. I told the story.

I got invited to Helm on grad, um, over the, I don't know what that was. Anyways, it doesn't matter. And I told the story of going to the Kindersey Clippers Trout, right? Get invited to Kinners and Clippers. You used to get all the letters in the mail, loved it. Mom would drive me there.

I thought it was so cool. I'm going to trial for Kinners and Clippers and I thought I had a good camp. But at this point, I'm probably, you know, 5'7 now. We're on a good day. Let's say I'm 5'4. No, I was, I was pretty much. I haven't grown. Who am I kidding?

I was like 5-7. And the coach says to me, man, you were a good player. Oh, here we go. All right. You know? And he goes, if you were four inches taller, you'd be on this team. Sorry, we got to let you go. And I walked out the door and I'm like, what the heck was that?

And I told the story because, you know, like getting cut, I got cut an awful lot. Mum drugged me everywhere. And I tried out everywhere. And it kind of gave me a little bit of thick skin. And then the other thing I noticed in doing the podcast and talking to all these athletes is it only takes one to believe. And if one believes in you, you will run through a lot of. a brick wall for him. That's the coach I interviewed at the Centennial Cup. And I, you know, one of, one of the hope out in Lashburn when he got picked up by Kelowna, I'm like, he just needed

a team to believe him. It wasn't about going to Clona. It was if the team, one of them, saw something nobody else saw. And if you can see that in a kid, especially one that's been cut or or kicked around a little bit and nobody's, I mean, you're not that kid or whatever they say to him, you know, because you can have a bad camp, right? Like all, I'm sure Clark has stories going and having a bad camp and getting, you know, no, you're just not with it this week. Okay, fair enough. But one, one coach believes in you, man, that is it, that's like the energizer, Buzzy, bunny getting, let's go and run away you run. Anyways. Has it been like that for a long time, Mark, this hockey, this dynamic? Sorry, I wasn't speaking to the mic. No, no. Yeah, no. I, I,

I think all elite sports have gone that way. I see it with volleyball and basketball. All sports are paid a play. It seemed to be year-round. and become elite sports is, I think, synonymous with money. And it's pretty hard to balance being involved in other things. And you hear lots of elite or professional athletes who didn't grow up that way and who speak to that and say that, you know, what a shame or that tell young people you shouldn't be in just one sport. But the reality is it's you can't make an, you know, a talk to a U-18,

AAA team if you aren't on the ice all the time now. And you aren't putting in the extra hours or going with a skills coach. And I think it's really, I think it's taken away from the enjoyment for a lot of young athletes that as the pyramid closes and you know, you keep,

very, very few get to play it at a professional level. And I think the numbers I last heard were there's more athletes that quit sports altogether. When I think of guys I played hockey with who still love going out on a Monday night or getting out on the ice, like I still love it.

But I see younger generations that their hockey ends before they're necessarily have to and they're completely done. And you might know some... You're maybe closer to age to me, Sean, But I do see young athletes more and more because of how busy it is and how year-round, that the joy of playing, it's gone.

And they end up for many, too many, not being lifelong active people, which is something you should get out of sports. So at the end of the day you should want to still, you know, it's your health and wellness, still want a chance to be with friends. Well, some of the fun. Some of the funnest hockey I've ever played came back in my hometown. Yeah. I mean, which is of all the levels I ever played, you know, for Senior A and, well, I don't even know it was it.

Senior A. I think of a Senior A in Saskatchewan. For that to be some of the funnest is kind of funny, you know. And then now, as I get older, we play in the Never Sweets tournament. And I at least like playing with the three older brothers. And Chris plays on our two, right? And we have this like merry band of men that get together. Cory Downs on the team org.

Right? It's a married band of men Come together for three games over a weekend. We have a blast. I'm like, I can't imagine if I'd never kept going and kept putting on the skates. What a sad day.

And yet, I'm sure my mother can tell these stories. And I'm, you know, like, she drugged me to a lot of places I did not want to go because it was starting to become, you know, every weekend or, or I don't know how many times in summer. And it probably wasn't even that bad back then

because you couldn't, you know, I'm like, now you can skate every day. They do skate every day. Yeah, and then they're in camps every weekend. Like these kids are in camps every weekend. So the skill levels up here. Yes. But I sure find a lot of, I mean, when we're recruiting,

we're looking for, our number one thing is for competitive. We want competitive people. That, you know, that kind of that extra fight in them willing to block shots and just not lose a battle and win at all cost type of an athlete. I think the more, you know, I think you'll lose a little bit of that with just so much that you never get a chance to get away. Do you remember what it was like when the ice went out in the spring and when you got back on late October, you just couldn't wait to get out on the ice? You're just chomping at the bit. And I don't know if I see many young people just can, you know, that same sense of joy of dragging somebody off the ice at Bud Miller.

or knee down the natural life, they don't get out to. You know where I see the kids where you got to drag them off is the ball field. Yeah. And you think it's a short little season. They get out on the ball field.

They love it. They play for two hours. And then I watch them and none of them want to leave. All the parents want to leave. I mean, it's like eight o'clock at night. You're like, these kids don't want to leave. And I'm like, fairness, I don't, you know, I can, I can sympathize.

Ball's also perfect for that because it's got the right amount of the socialization. You're in the dugout with everyone. you're talking and stuff, then you go on the field and you focus, then you're back and like, girls especially I find such a great sport for girls because they get that social interaction and then they go out and stuff. And it's nice outside. Do you have the rule, no crying in baseball?

We've had this talk twice. I don't know if you've had it, but we had the talk twice because I had a picture, the tear came out. I'm like, we're not doing this. We're not crying out here. This is not happening. Anyway. But, you know, there seems to be an extra pressure on the, on the, on the, the young athletes today to be that top player.

I know, like, when, and I'll refer to myself playing ball, Lash and Bluebird Ball. We came up, I mean, we were, we were a grown team, like Douga Brosmoff, probably my best coach ever, banter, colleague, the whole bit, but he grew a team. And there were players on that team would never play ball, but we need them to. And they played key positions because we needed them too. And I remember going to nationals. And I mean, the other teams couldn't get over the fact that where is Lashburn? You know, and like, it has an elevator.

Like it was just, they had no idea about how could we even be at nationals? I can tell you, if you matched player by player in position, we lost. But we had heart. Like, you had to play as a team because you needed each other. and we had heart and we had that grit and we had that no quit. And I think there's so many distractions, like you were saying the phones, shopping, just hanging out. The fact that you can have Saturday morning cartoons whenever you want

at any time for as long as you want. Yeah, just distractions. Or, you know, going to festival. or going to, you know, whatever, you're not going to commit to the team. You're going to do that first. And I find that a lot of the athletes are tired. Like there's no time out for them. Like I remember coaching, you know, there would be hockey season.

And then there was that period of time, maybe only three weeks before ball season. I remember a lot of the students or the athletes would say, I'm not going to play ball. But after three weeks of sitting around, they're out there. You know, and then they love that game. I mean, we used to practice, like you say, till it'd be a two-hour practice. Then they want to do home run derbies, you know, from the pitch amount. So you're out at the part for four hours. And, I mean, that's athlete, they're initiating that.

You know, you're taking them out there for the practice. And you're done. They want more. They just want to hang out and now have some fun. and actually control the scenario. Like it's not somebody coaching them. They're just out there having fun. And if you take that out of any sport,

I think it's hard. And like Chris, you were saying, you know, they don't want to try out, but they want a spot. But it's almost like, well, if I don't get that, I'll go do this. You know, in my time, when I played and all of us in this room,

we didn't have those options. No. Like you either played ball. I mean, soccer wasn't even big then. You either played ball, baseball or fastball or softball, or you didn't do anything. You know, and so you ran between the winter sport and the summer sport and you had a time out. You had a break in there. Enough time to want to get going again. Well, you talk about the care. I think we just saw that on the biggest stage, Florida. Right. You see how much those guys care about each other. And as us, all as athletes, I can pick the two fastball teams, you know, that you could feel it. The guys loved each other that I played on. My one year at Lakeland, we had that. And then coaching, I can pick out the three different years where, like, you could feel it early.

Like, oh, these guys actually love each other. Like, it just, I don't know how to explain it, but you can feel it happening even when you're an athlete. There's just a different feeling more kind of said about. their rugby like going to war you know one of the things that I question our players on whenever it's a year that's shaky with culture so we do a questionnaire and one of the questions is who would you pick in a bar fight and I'm always interested to see who they would want of course the girls have never been in a bar fight so it's more like a guy's question but who would you want there and if you see more than like one or two names popping up I think it means like they know a lot of people

have their back we ask a lot of those hidden questions but yeah It's cool when you feel that happening. I dig Debb in the bar fight. Think about your best teams. Was your best teams the most connected, I bet, that you played on? Yeah. Larry, who I interviewed at the Centennial Cup, we had a year where we went 42 and 10, I think, and then went on to a Dudley Hewitt Cup in Ontario.

And we were a bunch of misfits. We were all been cut and kicked around. We were a bunch of Saskatchewan boys. We weren't big enough. We weren't strong enough. And he just, he just, like, lit a fire under that because he'd been kicked around Junior A. And so we just had this identity of we weren't supposed to be there. And we weren't supposed to be the best.

And we weren't. And we weren't. And they totally are too small. And they, you know, and so we fought bigger guys, you know, I don't know why. You know, back then, everybody was bigger than me. But, you know, you used to fight guys who were six foot, not think anything of it. Because that's just what was asked of the team. And if you didn't do it, the guy next to you was doing it.

And we just had this idea. And that was a fun team to play on. The Hillman one that sits up there was a fun year, too. I got to be a defense partner with Brew for, you know, as close to 10 years. And as a defenseman, I never got that, ever. You come on to a team, and if you're one of the stronger, you always get paired with the weaker, which is fine. And then every second year, you lose part of your D and it starts all over again. So you play with the same D partner for a year.

you're lucky if you get two. And so in Hillamon, one of the things that I love is I got to play with brew for about 10 years. And so I knew what he was going to do. And he probably knew what I was going to do. And that was just like, I never got that. That's something you just don't get in other teams. And there was a feeling that year because of a whole bunch of guys coming in, Chesey and Dugan and Pacharca and, you know, like that really meant something. Because back then, well, Hillman had him won since 1978, I think of memory service. me correct it was 37 years gourd redden had come back from playing

in the Detroit farm system and they won and then had gone 37 years so there was I don't know I talked to the kids in Hillmont about it like you take Hillman wherever you go and you take Lloyd Minster wherever you go because I think Lloyd although it's Lloyd is the communities that surround you know I don't I grew up going to

Lashburn you know like they had the spurs there they won a national championship right and like this area has kind of been the outcast of both provinces I know it isn't but you know we're kind of out middle of nowhere. So you've got to take care of each other. And that's what a, what a sports team does. That's what a community does. And so, I don't know, I've had a couple of years where you can just feel it. It's fun to be in. It's just, you're fun to show up to the rink.

You're happy when every guy walks through the dressing room. There's nobody that goes, oh, Bob's back. I can't wait for Bob to open it, you know, or whatever. If you just didn't have that. And, you know, when you go to the Florida Oilers final, man, I wanted to hate Florida. But every time Paul Marie spoke, I'm like, I can play for that coach. Like, holy crap. And you know, you hate Kachuk and you hate Marshan. You hate guys like that. But the truth of the matter

is that they're playing for us. You'd love it. Like, how hurt was Kachuk ? They asked Kachuk, what's the injury? And he goes, ah, I'm going to enjoy the night. You'll find him soon enough. And that'll be all you guys talk about. Basically what he said. So he's hurt. And he finds... Fletters off his hip.

Torn off his hip. Torn off his hip. Yeah. He told, said, there was times I thought about quitting. for a guy to say that, you know, like that isn't an easy, you know, and that's the guy you're going to war with. Every time he walked in the dressing room, like, yeah, he checks back, baby, let's go. Like, you just, what a cool thing to watch, even though the other's lost. Like, it sucks, you know, but, you know, as a fan, as an athlete, you can see that with Florida. Yeah, it was fun.

But even at the end, when they gave the Stanley Cup to the first time, Stanley, I don't know if they had that mapped out, but wow. What a statement of team. They for sure talked about that. They said that Barkoff talked about it. But even more, like the guys that were scratched got their gear on and they got it before other guys too. Like I thought the same thing. I thought that was a really cool. That's team.

And that's how you build team that everybody's important. And I think, you know, back to your question about elite athletes, I think they're the ones that have to bring that team. bring it so that everybody feels like when you come in the door you're important and not you know like this group sits here and this group sit here like everybody sits in in that room because you're a team and I remember one of the things I did in coaching it was really important to me is I never believed in this first year second year you know so when when we formed a team we were the team. Nobody was the first year, nobody was the second year. So second years didn't have, you know, the elite status. And I remember getting called out on that a couple of times with players

well. Last year, we had to be that. Sorry for your luck on this team. If we're going to be a team, we're a team. And just always kept that. Sorry for your luck. That's a great lie. But, you know, you can't build a team if you have two levels. No, no, I would agree. And you said, I think that's a coach's job to set to, you know, you're successful. If you can manage a way and find a way to have that type of culture and to have elite players, what's considered your elite players to buy into that. But I think to finding a way that everybody feels valued is so important.

And obviously Florida was able to do that. and there's things they did that obviously showed that. That's, I mean, things, I struggle with individual awards at the end of the year. I think they do more harm than good. And if you're not careful, I find with your leadership group putting that little symbol on a jersey doesn't mean much. And other than being somebody that talks to the ref, I find over the years that's done more harm than good.

The leaders in the room, you all should have an opportunity to lead. And everybody knows who. And they know who needs to lead in this way or who is the person that speaks up. And yeah, I just, I think that's an important role as a coach is to try and find a way that the 25th player finds, it feels important. One final question. I look at all three of you and I think I'm right in this. you coach boys, you coached girls, you coached girls. Now, maybe you've also coached, you know, the same sex as all.

You know, I'm pointing out they've all coached the opposite sex. Was that difficult or did you enjoy it right from the start? Or was it something that you kind of fell into? Because, you know, I didn't think about it until I ran into. And you started talking old ball stories. I'm like, you know, as a kid that's, you know, maybe that was the standard, you know, like two women coaching a ball team and then going on. and winning provincials and, you know, I got to, you know, like,

Westerns and like on and on and went, right? Like, we were really, I think we were really good. I don't know. I think we were. But regardless, I'm like, you know, I hadn't really thought about it. Yes, you were. Yeah, yeah, you were. Well, no, I was, I personally was probably the 13th.

I was surrounded. You're on the team, though. I was on the team, but I was surrounded by excellent athletes. But nobody, yeah, anyways, you've all coached the opposite sex. was that a difficult thing or did you notice if you've coached both have you noticed just like unique things that translate well to either or does it not matter me personally i at school i coach or coach co-ed teams so my soccer rugby teams are co-ed and i just i don't i don't find a big difference i i think there's athletes of both sexes that are just naturally driven and and

and thrive in competition and our leaders. But, and there's, yeah, I don't find a big difference. No, I would say the same. Like, I think you change depending on what their needs are, so you approach it differently. I think it depends. It doesn't matter on the gender side of things. Like, you'll always deal with the,

the one-on-ones. Like, even though you're a team, you still need to work with the individuals, you know, that are there. So I always found I needed to get to know them. I needed to find out what their needs are, what they were capable of. And I think the biggest thing is, and you said, is believe in them. You know, everyone that gets up to bad. I'll give you an example.

When I played myself, the coaches I had, when I got up to bat, it wasn't. if I was going to hit, it was where. And it was, you know, it was like, it was anywhere from getting on base to a home run. Like, that was my mindset. But later on, when I went and had a new coach, and he would stand at third base and get your quota, way different view.

Like now you're up to bat, realizing that if you don't get your quota, you're not playing. So now it changes that I'm not thinking. say get your quota. Oh, yeah. I'm not change,

I'm not up to bat thinking, where am I going to hit? I'm like, I better hit. And so those were my learnings from other coaches that I tried to take forward in when I was working

in any capacity with young people is that sometimes we say things and whether he meant it or well, he didn't mean it, but you can take that confidence out of them so quickly. And to me, that's the big thing. If you can build the confidence,

no matter what group you're coaching, whether it's the little younger ones or whether it's the vets, I think it's just build the confidence of each of your players. And they will know their limits. Like everyone will have limits. Like you'll always have the ones that come with the skills.

But I enjoy. both? Well, my first year coaching girls, I was 24 and I had players that were 24. So that was a challenge. And going out and recruiting, and I looked like I was 14 at the time, my first year recruiting was awful because no parents took me serious.

I will say coaching girls, they are much more willing. The relationship is different with girls. That part is really important. The relationship off the court or off ice, whatever it is. I think that's more important than what I do on the floor or on the ice with girls. And they're easier to buy in to something together.

Now, if you lose it, it's gone. But with girls, they're more naturally there. Guys, it takes a little bit more to get them there, I find. And, you know, a lot of people always ask me the difference of coaching girls and guys in terms of like in a practice. I explain if you tell a girl, and actually, I think I talked to your husband about this one day, if you tell a girl to go to A to B, they will only go A to B. That is all they'll do. They'll never deviate.

They will never do anything different because they're just aiming to please and do it exactly right. When you tell a boy to go to A to B, they will go everywhere but A to B. They will be all over the place and they'll be figuring it out. Maybe they get there. Maybe they don't. But girls are very much, they lack a little more creativity. Just I don't know if it's innate. And that's something that you really have to foster.

with the female athletes where the boys have the creativity but sometimes lack the discipline is what I've found coaching both like over yeah it's like it's fun it's a different puzzle to put together if I go back to the first story Deb Dole she had to she literally had a group of boys worried about how they looked you know so maybe maybe they aren't so you know like I wouldn't have never thought that and then again I don't know boys it were a bunch of hammerheads this this is a new thing with boys. I had boys for their photo signing blow drying their hair and flipping it out. That isn't that isn't new. And then they went and they're like, oh, I got to go practice my, they went in the mirror to practice their smiles and came back and I'm like, you can't,

you can't be serious right now. Like the girls are easier to take photos. Dev, devil, devil remember Miles Seminar having the curly locks. Like I mean, this is that is, I'm sorry, that is, I don't think that's new. I don't, I don't think that's new. I don't, I don't think that's new. Actually, the more I'm thinking about it, I'm like, oh, man, maybe men. I was blown away. I was blown away, but hockey players, it's all about the flow, Chris. Sometimes we'd be go eat after a long tournament, and I had the mark across the floor.

Right, the shale mark. I didn't care. But so it was odd to me that, you know, you're finished at tournaments, your wind blowing, maybe rain, you know, sunburn. You're stopping for a quick bite to heat, and they're in the back of their vehicle. like grooming themselves like I never saw this before on my teams that I played with that was not an issue we did not Marshall Marshall Saskatch when that team was right right that's crazy that is crazy that's a great that's a great story thanks for coming in folks appreciate it and uh Morg said I on the phone he's like I don't know if I have anything to

offer I I laugh at that because every time I sit and listen I'm like I'm just picking up little things, you know, we'll keep on this coaching journey. It's been, it's been fun, but selfishly having you in here, I'm, you know, I'm going to go re-listen and steal some things for the next time U-7 or U-9 hockey practice comes around because it's, I didn't realize how fortunate I was to have a lady like Deb and others coaches at that age. I don't think I realize it. I just think, I assumed you were going to get that everywhere you went. Or, you know, I talk about Merv coaching. me, him and JP Kelly, we had him for a year and, you know, learned more off Merv in one year than I did with certain coaches for four years. And you just, you don't realize how rare that is.

So to be now on the coaching side of it, it's like, well, I don't want to be the coach. You don't learn anything for four years. I really want athletes to succeed. So anything, you know, your minds can help with. I truly appreciate. I'm sure there's some listeners that are thankful too. So thanks for hopping in tonight. Thanks, Sean. Thanks. Thanks. Thank you.