Shaun Newman Podcast - #912 - Jennifer Laewetz

Episode Date: September 15, 2025

Jennifer Laewetz is a Cree woman from George Gordon First Nation and a leading Indigenous Canadian voice in politics and media. With a background in Political Studies and federal politics, she founded Paskwâw Strategies, a First Nations-owned firm focused on Indigenous governance, policy, and community development. A frequent APTN News panelist, she advocates for transparency in Indigenous funding and self-determination, while mentoring Indigenous youth and engaging 30,000 X followers with her unapologetic perspective.To watch the Full Cornerstone Forum: https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcastGet your voice heard: Text Shaun 587-217-8500Silver Gold Bull Links:Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/Email: [e-mail] Grahame: [phone]Bow Valley Credit UnionBitcoin: www.bowvalleycu.com/en/personal/investing-wealth/bitcoin-gatewayEmail: [e-mail] Use the code “SNP” on all ordersProphet River Links:Website: store.prophetriver.com/Email: [e-mail] Money SummitWebsite: ExpatMoneySummit.com

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And if you're watching on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, Rumble, X, make sure to subscribe, leave a review, comment, shoot me, text. Love to hear from you guys. Now, let's get on to that tale of the tape. Today's guest founded Pasqua Strategies, a First Nation-owned firm focused on indigenous governance, policy, and community development. I'm talking about Jennifer Laywitz. So buckle up. Here we go. All right, welcome to the Sean Numa podcast. Today I'm joined today by Jennifer Laywitz.

Jennifer, welcome back to the show. Yeah, thanks for having me. Well, I was just, you know, we're just joking about it. But if you want to go back and hear the origin story of Jennifer, go back to episode 405, folks. It's been a while. This is episode nine. It's going to be 912 now. Like, think about that. That's how many, when I say, oh, you were way back when. I'm like, literally, you were way back when.

That's a long time ago now. 500 episodes? Holy crap. So, walk me through what is going on in your world because, forgive me. I know you as like, you know, the first time I ever met you, I want to say was at the rural urban divide show I had where Quick Dick McDick was on stage with Vance Crow. and Steve Barber, I think was the first time you were in town. You've probably been in Lloyd more than that.

But I remember you being there sitting at QDM's table and getting introduced to you. And then that's what spurred on. I should interview this person. And so that happened. And then, of course, you've been on a couple of the live streams. But like, now I'm like, I feel like I turn away from Twitter or X, sorry, for like five minutes. And bombs are just going off everywhere. I don't, you know, like just, it just seems like, I don't know, walk me through what's going on.

Yeah, it has been a while and it's nice to chat with you again. You know, I think many people that follow me online know me as kind of an unapologetic political commentator that's kind of broken away from the traditional mold of where indigenous or First Nations people in general fall on the political spectrum or even in their involvement in politics. So I've been traditionally known as somebody that comments quite heavily on politics, but behind the scenes, I'm obviously First Nations and a lot of my work and my formal education is in the indigenous governance space. So that's what I do on a day-to-day basis. That doesn't traditionally mix with what I was talking about online. So fast forward to this year, I noticed some things kind of going down with the Métis Nation, Saskatchewan. There was some weird things kind of hitting the media like some of the elected officials that were suspicious.

from the table and just some decisions being made where I was like, that is really strange. And when I started kind of asking around, I had known, you know, the Métis Nation has always been a little bit of a controversial playground, if you will. They're a fiery group of people. My mother is Métis. My grandmother's Métis. My kids are Métis. So it's an area that I've paid attention to, but have never been directly involved in. But to my surprise, I kind of went down the timeline of what's been going on with the Métis Nation. And years ago, the federal government, which is the liberal government in 2017, I believe it was, they were under like third party management allegedly.

So the Métis Nation, that means that they weren't really able to kind of handle themselves as a self-government. They had pretty close ties to the feds. So they were under third party management and there was like a transition team allegedly working with the Métis Nation. Within that transition team was a employee of the federal government from the ministry that, before you know it becomes the in-term CEO of the Métis Nation. And I'm like as an indigenous government expert quote unquote, that's really strange to even have a CEO in your government, but to have someone that's coming from government into your self-government, little strange.

Things started kind of going down last year they had their MNLA. So if you understand the structure of the Métis Nation Saskatchewan, they have their PMC, which is, their provincial METI council. That's all your elected regional reps. Think of them as like MPs. And then you have your MNLA, which is your METI Nation Legislative Assembly, and that's all your local presidents. I don't want to compare it to EDAs, but they're kind of more the grassroots representation for METI citizens. So this MNLA, they have this CEO that is presented a METI card, and it's through their coming home policy. So they introduced this policy that basically said if you moved out of Saskatchewan or whatever, you can now come back home and we'll give you your

Méti card, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I'm like, this is really weird that this is kind of going down this way. And then I started looking into the finances because anything with government, follow the money. You know what they say? Follow the money. So I start realizing how much money they're receiving and I'm going through their annual report and their last annual report that's available on the website, $117 million a year.

and a majority of it is federal dollars, meaning the federal government is funding this organization because they're a self-government, but they're a nonprofit to the tune of over $100 million a year. And people often talk about financial literacy and they talk about the importance of not having corruption or mismanagement and finances. From the government perspective, like someone that works in government, my thing is what is the outcome when money is mismanaged? What is the outcome when you're not using the resources you're given to their fullest potential? Our addictions being handled. Is crime going to be out of control? Break down a family going to be even worse. All of these things that are directly contributed to lack of resources. So I'm like following this money. And I went to chat with my regional representative for the city I live in, who is one of the ones suspended from the table. And I'm like, well, what's going on here? Like you're suspended. I go back and watch that M&LA from last November. And I see that you and several other. were trying to ask questions. How were you given a Méti card?

They didn't ask it like that, but there was questions around the registry. You know, other questions, like questions I would be asking. Who signed your contract? How much is your contract? Where did you come from? And immediately they're shut down by the chair. Like, you can't ask that.

We're going to have a human rights case, yada, yada, yada, shut down. Fast forward. There is a harassment case brought forward against them from the CEO. The investigation has been, completely like no one knows who did the investigation what was the outcome of it but then fast forward they're still suspended indefinitely until they apologize but they updated their minutes on their website from their PMC meeting where they passed a resolution to pay a settlement to this CEO who is still employed and i'm like wait a dang minute why is he still employed if you got a

settlement. I've never heard of that before. So then I had made my thread on Twitter where I thought, you know, I just tried to keep it very, here's what's kind of going on. And I was slapped with a cease and desist within weeks. Like I have never been shut down talking about a political issue so quickly ever. A high stakes law firm in BC sent me a cease and desist. And within that cease and desist was a nice paragraph at the bottom that said you are now basically banned indefinitely. from attending any more meetings. I'm like, holy smokes, okay. So that's where we're at.

I attempted to go into their MNLA last week, and I was told that the police would be called on me. You're going to have to speak in very simple terms to this guy who lives on a rock on this side. Can you break down when you're like, if you understand the organization and you start rattling some things off, I don't understand the organization.

I'm going to assume there's a few of us who don't understand the organization. Could we just start really simple? simple. Like this organization, I think you said, as a nonprofit, 117 million federal funding. I don't know. I'm just like, can you just walk me through what the organization is there for? And like, and then like the positions again. Yeah, I'm happy to break that down. Um, if you want to leave that last piece in some, I know there will be people that already know about the Métis nation watching this so they can scroll over this part. Sure. But the Métis nation, Saskatchewan is a recognized. indigenous self-government that represents Métis citizens of Saskatchewan. So whether or not, if you're Métis, this is your self-government.

The structure of the government is interesting in the fact that they have a president, a vice president, a treasurer, a secretary, youth presidents, and then they have their PMC, which is their provincial Méti Council. So the provincial Métis Council are your regional representatives. So if you look up a map of the Métis Nation, Saskatchew, and you look up regions, you'll see all the little regions broken up. Those regional reps represent those citizens in those regions, much like a member of parliament or an MLA. And then below that, it gets a little bit more complex because there's local presidents. So in the city of Prince Albert, we have three, I believe, Métis locals, some of which don't represent that many citizens,

but those presidents of those locals get a seat at that MNLA. And the MNLA is their like central government. So that's all their government pieces. And then there's the CEO who is in everywhere, allegedly, but he's also the clerk of the MNLA. So he is directly involved also in the governance piece of the Métis Nation Legislative Assembly. So any resolutions or anything that hit the floor, he's kind of directly involved in some of that process and he sits at the MNLA meetings as well.

So he's not just a CEO or a private employee. He's kind of all over the place like an octopus. What Sheila Guns said about an octopus, that's what it feels like. MLN, no, MNLA. I'm going to butcher that for the rest of the time. Maintiesian Legislative Assembly, correct? Yes, yes. So I get the structure.

feels like any nonprofit almost, right? Vice president, president, all the different positions. Then you have it broke down after that. Kind of similar to CAs for a provincial party. Am I even remotely close? No, like you have your PMC so you're like regional reps and then presidents for the locals, almost like little constituency offices or something. Like it's, it's unique. So it's a little confusing. Do now, I'm going to ask some really dumb questions. Does every province have one? So is there like a BC, a Saskatchewan, and Alberta, et cetera, et cetera?

Yes. So there's MNBC, Métis Nation, Alberta, Métis Nation, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Métis Federation, and Métis Nation, Ontario. And then there's the national body in Ottawa, the Métis National Council, which Saskatchewan has pulled out of over concerns around, as far as I know, their registry. So the Métis Nation, Ontario isn't really seen as legitimate because there's no Métis. There's allegedly no real Métis people from out east unless you've moved there. Because Métis are a distinct group of people. They belong to the Red River. So it's kind of weird.

And all of these different provincial bodies also make it kind of complicated because they're all on different pages, it seems. And then I'm going to ask another probably dumb question. What is the duties or importance of the Métis Nation, Saskatchewan. Like, what is it there to ensure happens? To represent their citizens and they deliver a lot of programs, they're very, very program heavy, probably because there's so many dollars coming in from the feds. So they give like down payments for houses, energy efficient grants. They fund for school.

I went through university through a Bachelor of Education program that was kind of Métis centered, but at the time when I did this, this was when the Métis Nation wasn't what it is. So I wasn't funded to go to school. Like I didn't get money every month to go to school. I paid my own way. But now they can actually fund you every month to like go through school. A lot of programs. Like very, very program heavy and not, it doesn't seem like they're doing strong in the

governance piece more so just you get a down payment. You get a down payment. Everyone gets a down payment. And I'm in the background like, is that sustainable? Over a long periods of time. Nations don't even do that. Like First Nations are not funded to the ability to even do that. So it's been weird to, I don't know.

Well, I just, you know, like on this side, if you'd ask Sean what anything to do with government five years ago, I would have asked the same stupid questions I'm asking right now. Because when I look at this, I'm like, I knew Maytee Nation, Saskatchewan existed because I'd followed you. So I'm like, oh, okay, all right. And then I didn't really, you know, I don't really put two and two together because I wasn't really paying attention to it. But then you're not allowed in. And I'm like, well, that's kind of weird. Like that, that in itself is weird just a get-go, you know, and all you're asking for is transparency.

Would that be the easiest word to use? Yeah, and accountability for sure. So when you started looking into the money, okay, you got this 117 million sitting there. You start digging into it. You know, I think a Blacklocks reporter, honestly. Every time there's some big story on our government, it's Tom Korski, Holly Doan, they're break, and they're just like, just follow the money. I assume you're doing the exact same thing.

You started following the money, and what is that showing you? You know, they passed their budget the other day, and I don't want to quote exact numbers because I have the budget here, but I don't want to say it's for sure, but I think they're running a deficit of between $34 and $37 million, dollars if I understand the numbers correctly, which means that the feds are funding them an incredible amount of money, but they're almost overspending to the point where it's not sustainable long term, in my opinion, because how are you running deficits to that degree already? And then as, you know, I've heard rumors on Facebook where people are saying their federal dollars are per capita,

like it's how many citizens you basically have. So they do do an audit of the registry, and that's like red flag. Like my cease and desist should be ripped up and thrown over. the window now that I've read that citizenship audit. But it's, you know, I've... Why is that red flag? Do you want to get into the citizenship stuff? Sure. I don't know. Yeah. You're smiling. You're calling that flag. I'm like, but I've walk me through this.

This is so important for people that are not indigenous to listen to because no one pays attention to this sort of thing and it just like flies. Like before we get into the citizenship, the reason this is so incredibly important for everyone to be listening to is because these type of things shape Canada. Like the Métis Nation spent an insane amount of money on promoting or I guess advertising a modern treaty. And I'm like, wait a dang minute. Like I'm a direct descendant of one of the people that interpreted and helped sign treaty four. That was a really long time ago. And we're in 2025 talking about signing new treaty.

So I don't know where the feds are out on that. But when I was at the swearing-in ceremony, the president holds up a blank sheet of paper, and he's like, this is where our rights are going to be under Section 35. And there's been, like, allegedly talks of like amending the Constitution. And I'm like, that's not happening. Like, in 2025, you need a majority of the provinces and over 50% of the population to start amending the Constitution. And if we're amending the Constitution, we're abolishing the Senate first, like, first and foremost. But a lot of conversations about shaping treaty in Canada as Métis people. and modern treaty, the feds are funding them an incredible amount of money.

Like there's a lot to look at there. But on the citizenship side, these women, like I'm just taking what people have said to me and have insulted me by saying, well, they harassed him because they asked questions of his citizenship, how he was given a Méti card. That's a human rights issue. You can't ask that. People were asking questions about how he was processed a Méti card in the same day when everyone else takes months and months and months.

So the Métis Nation posted on Facebook and Instagram the other day after their M&A, their M&A, their METI meetings I wasn't allowed in, saying we had a citizenship audit done. Everything that's in compliance, it's good. And being a policy writer, I'm like, nah, I'll read it for myself and make that decision. So I open up the citizenship audit that's been conducted by KPMG. And it says directly in there that there's issues with their conflict of interest. there's been interest with tying people's genealogy to their cards. There's been issues with people being given their cards in the same day. There's been issues with which team is approving these cards.

And I'm like, this audit just gave all of these elected officials a duty to ask these questions. But they've created this government structure now where if you ask questions, you might be in trouble for harassment. Someone might be given an incredible payout. And then you're going to be suspended indefinitely from the table. because those elected officials are still not back to the table. On my, the red flag that I heard is as soon as you're not allowed to ask about how someone got their Métis card or citizenship,

shouldn't that be like, that means if I got one tomorrow, you can't ask me about it. That doesn't make any sense. You should be able to, I think, right, when you're not allowed to ask a question about that, that already shows that there's going to be issues there. going to be issues there, like big ones. Especially when the MNS has very publicly pulled out of the M&A national council and the MNO is out there raising legitimate questions about people's ancestry, like people belong to the MNO who shouldn't, allegedly.

We're in a really, we're in a place of pretendianism right now where we're seeing academics be called out for being pretendians. The liberal government went under fire for having a pretendian in their cabinet and giving out tons of money to people that rightfully so. we're not eligible for those dollars. Canadian taxpayers are shaking their heads, wondering what the heck. These dollars are supposed to serve a purpose to, you know, help level the playing field. Let's get indigenous economy going.

Let's get entrepreneurs on the ground working and, you know, strengthen that economy, not, oh, I'm going to pretend to be indigenous today. Here we go, which is what has happened across this country in tons of different areas. Academia, federal government contracts. So it's, we're in a time where we have to be asked. asking those questions and the nation should be wanting to present themselves as a nation prepared to answer those questions. To me and once again, feel free to fire away, Jennifer, but anything to do with First Nations, anything to do with climate change, anything to do with,

well, those two in particular, forest fires right now is just a black hole of just money goes in because we have an emergency. And with First Nations, I've always been kind of sitting in this chair going, I don't know if I'm actually allowed to ask any questions. And I'm like, anytime you get an area where you're not allowed to ask any questions, and that just might be me,

I feel like there's going to be issues, like so many because nobody's paying attention to where the dollars are going. And once you start following the money, it's probably going to paint a different story than what actually is supposed to be done with said money. When it comes to questions around the, First Nations aspect, that's an area where I do believe we need to open those doors to have those

conversations. I think it goes without saying that in any area, as long as you're respectful, those conversations can happen. Like I know for me, if someone asked me, you know, a legit question, like, well, how much money? Where is this being used? Why is this not changing? Why is this like this like this? I have no problem having those conversations. If you automatically come in telling me to get a job and pay taxes, which I do, there's going to be heat there. Right. Like, it's like, I'm not going to have a conversation with you because you're not respectful. But those are the areas where I wish we would talk about that more because from a nation perspective, as someone that has worked with nations for a long time, and that's majority of my day to day, there's a misconception. Like, you hear

the federal government announce like these big budgets. It goes into bureaucracy most of the time, and the liberals are infamous for this where they split the department into two. There's ISC and CERNAC now. they doubled the public service. So a lot of those dollars are being eaten up by the bureaucracy. But at a nation level, most dollars come through funding agreements, meaning that you have to spend those dollars for their intended purpose. And you have to report on how those dollars are being used. So the federal government will say,

Kate, we need a report back on this type of funding. How did you use it? You send that back in. If you don't, that money is halted. Unrestricted funding will be halted or non-restricted story. And non-essential. So that happens with nations all the time. where funding can be halted.

And there's nations, too, that, like, sometimes they don't even know if a new leader comes in, a new chief. They have to fight that same bureaucracy. I want a forensic audit. You know, an ISC takes their time and they make it a little bit difficult sometimes to jump through those hoops. So a lot of the time, it's also nations on the other end that are dealing with that same bureaucracy.

And the feds get off from, like, dealing with that, like, that anger that should be directed at them half the time, you know? Like it's, it's a bureaucracy. It's a gigantic industry, actually. I shouldn't even say bureaucracy. It has created an industry because some of the money that also goes to nations is creating industry for non-indigenous people too. Lawyers, accountants, consultants, strategists, which I am.

But it's just this big, weird, like, it's just, think of even the maintaination as an example how the feds are giving the money and over $100 million a year. and then they want to sue and send cease and desist to random citizens. So then they're going to lawyers. Like, it's a whole thing. So it's the, it's the griff that keeps on grifting. I have a whole bunch of questions,

but I'm going to, for just a second, I do want to point back to you. So they got $117 million and they're going to run a deficit. Why on earth? I know it doesn't matter if you got $1,000 and you're going to run a deficit, you know, you got some things in the world or a hundred million uh i understand there's like you know

the number's big but i'm like why run a deficit what are they running a deficit on what needs to happen like is it is it things that are are they're buying things that are going to eventually pay off said deficit or they're just going into a deficit because they know the government's going to give more money i think there's definitely that plan that some of these things will start generating revenue back so it won't be that bad of a deficit. But I think a lot of it is like programming and things like that. They are building infrastructure, but with nations, you know, my thing with nations is like you're not just investing in like social programming, which is incredibly important. We have to invest in social programming. But don't just move it all into like social

infrastructure too where you're like, oh, we have these amazing programs. Now let's build this like state of the art facility to facilitate said programs, which First Nations don't really do, but a lot of organizations do. Native Women's Association, Canada, whatever it is, go Google that building. It is ridiculous the size and the structure of that building that they now have to sell because when you start just investing a bunch of dollars into things that don't return that revenue, what happens? You create deficits. I do know the Métisian is building, I don't know, health facilities or something in the city I live in, which again, the social area very important to limit those like those social determinants that are happening in public right now, addictions, mental

health, all those things. But you need to have the dollars coming in to fund all of these things. If you're giving people down payments for their homes or you're giving them, you know, clean energy grants or whatever it is, you have to have the money. And my thing is it ballooned. I don't know the exact number, but I know the area, like regional directors or whatever they're called, are paid a six-figure salary. They're paid over $100,000 a year. And their regions are relatively small. Like for context, my member of parliament serves over 100,000 people and their salaries are not that far off. And my MP works around the clock. I know some people don't think that because they don't sit all the time, but they're in Ottawa and they're here. He's in his constituency. His constituency is

three hours from one end to the other, maybe even bigger now, the writing changed. MPs are doing a significant amount of representation. And, you know, these regional reps have bigger offices than MPs. Sometimes they have more staff than MPs. And some of them are representing a couple thousand people. And it's like, that's, that's a big bureaucracy you guys are creating here, a really big bureaucracy. And peridium's. I'm so tired of hearing about per diems.

Explain. Just like it's a really big thing in indigenous culture and I my hottest take and I do not care how people feel about this. I will go on record to say this. I am so exhausted of everyone needing a purdium for literally everything. Like you think a peridium is like your meals and your travel and an honorarium check for attending something. We give that to elders out of like good faith because elders are our backbone and we give them honorarium for attending things. But like random people where. I have heard allegedly in some of these indigenous government spaces, maybe the Métis Nation, maybe not, where I've had some of them like attack me online. Some of their biggest supporters will attack me. And I'm like, that's really weird. Where's this person coming from? And someone will come in being like, oh, that person gets puritan. They get their travel, their room, their meals, everything paid for to go to these like Métis meetings, allegedly.

And I'm like, so that's it. Everyone just like, you're going to attack another human being over a couple hundred bucks. Like, and that's a, I've, I've never heard the word purdium in the last month as much as I have. It's ridiculous. Before I ask you about a bunch of other things going on in Canada, where does it go now for you with the Métis Nation in Saskatchewan specifically, not being allowed in like, and cease and desist and all these different things? Like, where does it actually go to now? I'm fighting it. I've been busy working the last several days, so I haven't had a chance to make any new videos, but I'm not backing down. legal has responded. I've been doing interviews and doing media. I think it's incredibly important if they need to take me to court over my statements that they say are defamatory, okay, let's do it.

But exactly like you said, there's a bunch of people out there that are not indigenous that have questions. And a part of reconciliation and building those relationships is having the ability to have those conversations and, you know, not penalizing people or throwing them into, you know, a closet for asking legitimate questions about us as a people and money, you know, when we're living in the state of Canada that we are where crime is out of control, jails are full. You know, my husband one night, he was stuck in a riot at our jail and I didn't even think he was going to make it home. These issues are becoming personal. People don't feel safe anymore. Addictions are out of control. And so when the people see insane amounts of money sent to

organizations or, you know, different strategists or lobbyists across the country, people have questions and as an indigenous person I know that the privilege of mine is that I'm going to be able to ask those questions and not be painted as a racist because I am indigenous so I'll ask them I and I have a duty to just like I have a we all as Canadians have a job to keep our federal government held accountable we have that job as indigenous people with our own leadership we have a job to hold them accountable so that's what I'm doing I'm not going to back down and I'm going to keep asking questions and shedding a light where it needs to be shed. This is a big question.

And I don't know. Well, you see what's happening in Alberta, right? This idea of almost a nation within a nation or a sovereign Alberta within a United Canada or however they put it the wording, right? If, you know, a referendum was to happen, that type of thing. My brain is trying to put together a nation within a nation because all of us are a part of a nation. So doesn't that, I actually don't know where to go with that question. Other than like, doesn't that come almost contradictory? Like you have two nations that are representing you?

It is complex and you just highlighted one of the reasons people often misunderstand the treaties because people think that like Canada should abolish the treaties, but those relationships aren't made with Canada. They're made with the crown. So realistically, we're in a nation-to-nation relationship, meaning that as First Nations were supposed to be sovereign and in that independent relationship with not only Canada but with the crown. The issue that complicated it for literally everyone

is that we were asserting that autonomy in that jurisdiction after the treaties were signed, but then the Indian Act came down. And the Indian Act was a document to control us, but also basically saying as long as we register you as Indians, which back then they were really, really controlling over everything we did, we will basically give you this in exchange for your like belonging under the indian act so funding for different things that sort of thing um with alberta i don't know how like i'm also confused how that could work i would think that alberta would have to go beyond canada and i'm not going to entertain any

i don't want to say alberta should separate because i'm not a fan of quebec and i don't want alberta to do that to us because albert and saskatchen are like friends but i would assume you would have to go directly to the crown and start having those sovereignty conversations because you're still, you're not your own nation. You're a province within the confederate, the confederation of Canada. So I don't think Alberta would be able to just like separate and still exist under Canada's nation. It would get very complex when you're talking about like everything from national defense.

Like Canada is the one that has to protect the entire country. What does that look like in times of war? Everything basically. So I don't know. I don't know. It confuses me a lot, like what Alberta's plan is. I've just seen with Quebec how it's like, it's just seem to have made it more of a mess than anything. And you can look at like how how the Supreme Court honors that that separatism or that sovereignty by Bill C92, which was the federal government giving jurisdiction to First Nations over their own children, which just started a couple years ago. Quebec challenged it. Quebec based. basically was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, you're not doing this. They took it to the Supreme Court and they lost. So the Supreme Court did not uphold Quebec's sovereignty or jurisdiction over child welfare laws in their own province for First Nations kids. So I don't know how Alberta would work that because you'd be dealing with all those different areas, right? I don't know. I don't know. I think we've confused everybody. Well, I'm glad I can make Jennifer a little uncomfortable. That's great. When you talk about First Nations kids, what do you mean with, walk me through that? They didn't have control of their own children.

Yeah, so First Nations kids, like they're, you're probably hearing about all of these different settlements. I was actually a 60 scoop kid. I was apprehended before 1995 and placed into non-indigenous care. The federal government has had jurisdiction over our kids. And then they've kind of handed some of that jurisdiction to the provinces. So basically the feds years ago passed legislation saying, okay, you know, there's been all of these settlements, there's been issues in all of these different areas. The provinces are allegedly not taking care of the kids properly that are apprehended and

some are apprehended due to neglect. I was also one of those kids. But fine, if you want jurisdiction over your kids, here you go. Create your own laws. Create your own capacity. Create your own child welfare systems. So then years ago, that was passed. so now nations are actively creating their own laws and jurisdiction over their own children.

It's very complex. It's not an easy piece of legislation to break down. Am I right in the thinking then that on reserve land, there is a different set of laws than, say, if you step outside of that jurisdiction? Yes and no. It depends on how, like, I know there's been sovereign nations that are out of the Indian Act now. so I believe they have the capacity to create their own tax, their own tax things and stuff like that. But no matter what, for my understanding, no matter where you are, you have to follow federal Canadian law.

Like, I can't go commit a serious crime on my nation and then be like, you can't arrest me because I'm on my nation. They're going to come and they're going to arrest me. I probably won't spend any time in jail and I'll probably be out in bail in a couple hours, but nonetheless, I'm being arrested. There probably won't be any repercussions, is what I'm saying. It shouldn't say that out loud because there's people watching that probably, you know,

are feeling disheartened by the justice system in Canada. Well, I mean, we joke about it every Friday about the justice system and how you can pretty much do anything you want, minus stand up to the government. And if you just do anything you want, you're going to get out in a couple days. But if you, you know, I don't know, stand up to the government's mandates on COVID in particular, you know, being the, you know, then then you're, you're, you're, going to have everything thrown at you and then some. So I don't think you pointing out how, well, I don't know, you can only just laugh at the judicial system at this point. It's pretty sad

state of affairs in Canada. Yeah, it's not great. And then with the child welfare laws, I've been like, it feels like they're setting us up to fail. I know there's a lot of really great competent leadership out there that are able to handle it. But the feds, like, I just feel like they love nothing more than to see us just like struggle and in every area it's even with the provinces where I feel like sometimes being in Saskatchewan I'm like they don't care about us like at all what are your thoughts on the um bc the the the land rates I'm curious you know like you're if you have any thoughts on that I've been asked this and I'll be completely honest with you I don't really understand a lot of it because unseated and I'm in a

a very heavy treaty like I'm from treaty four and so I I have a hard time understanding it I've just been trying to read but I'll be honest I'm kind of ignorant on what's going on there um but with anything when you start to create these big changes and it feels like the majority of people aren't on the same page it just creates more division is what what it does unfortunately because I don't even know what's going on well and I had a lawyer on from BC who broke it down for me and by the end of it. I'm sure I looked like I've been hit by a train. Like I'm like, okay, I'm trying to keep up with a, with a bullet train and I'm having a little bit of hard time. But the one thing that, I don't know, well, there's several things, but one of the things that stuck out to me was he's like,

this is a BC problem and a New Brunswick problem. It's not Alberta, Saskatchewan, etc. Because of signed treaties. Does that make sense to you? Yeah, it would, because the treaties are our historic agreements that are kind of like written in stone. Like, there's, they're there. It seems like with this issue in BC where it's a new issue being handled in modern day and I don't know like what is happening to the private like landowners and stuff like that. Like I'm having a hard time understanding like I know that's not going to happen here because we have a number of treaties in Saskatchewan. But in BC I am I'm confused. I'm very confused. Yeah. Well, I think you go along with the rest of us trying to figure it out.

Or like, are they giving title to, well, I mean, that's what it sounds like. They're going to have title over private land, which is confusing, like beyond confusing to sit and listen to anyone talk on. When you come back to Saskatchewan, Alberta, I'm like, this nation, these two different, like, this confuses me, right? Like, there was a whole bunch of things done to a group of people, but they'd signed a piece of paper with the crown correct yeah the treaties were negotiated but then the parliament or our government put in the indian act over top of that like am i getting that right yeah if you were to be like me wave a magic wand which i know we can't do but let's just assume you could wave a magic wand and take away the division of all people and specifically first nations and regular

day folk that find grievance between the two. How would you do that? Like, what would you change? I've thought about this a lot because it's really hard for me in 2025 to discuss treaties in a way where I entertain the idea of, you know, eliminating them when, you know, like I was saying earlier, I'm the fifth great grandchild to Charles Pratt, who was an interpreter for Treaty 4. And Charles at the time was known as like a man of the people basically there's been some controversy with him because he was the first first nation's man in western Canada to actually Canada wasn't a thing but he was the first first nation's man in the western part of this country to get informal education and then he went on to actually like teach in that Eurocentric education system because he understood

English and he went on to work for that as his big company the whole thing but I know that he played that important role in the treaties because he knew that long term that was the right thing to do and I I pose this question to people often when we talk about treaties imagine in 2025 like Canada exists we kind of we have our people we have our laws as first nations people we also had our own governments and our own laws and a bunch of people come over to Canada which is happening we have mass immigration now um and there's basically kind of one or two choices do we eradicate them entirely the people that are coming in do we eradicate all these Canadians entirely or do we find a way to work together because they're not leaving and we're not leaving

and we've also brought in disease so we've made Canadians now very vulnerable and susceptible to understanding what needs to happen next we also need them in case of war because there's a lot of international conflict and first nations people did sign up in droves you know i family members like my great great my great grandparents fought in the war and like do we do we sign a treaty with the crown to kind of simmer some of this down and we coexist forever basically it's a treaty it's what a treaty is and i think at the time there was probably thought process of what would this look like in a hundred years from now what would this look like in 200 years from now but now we're in 2025 and a lot of people are like when does it end and it's like well it's not supposed to that's

nation to nation we are in our we're our own nation as far as the crown is concerned We're our own people, our own nation. But it complicates things because the feds created a whole bunch of laws that made things really difficult. Like I said, the Indian Act came down. And that was really, really oppressive legislation that controlled everything. Our rights to language, our rights to raise our kids, our rights to go to school. And, you know, people say, well, there was hard in my family and it didn't last that long. But it's like, yeah, but this was decades and decades and decades.

like they really wanted to keep us controlled because they had just signed these treaties and they knew that we were now recognized as our own people and nations but then they were like well how do we introduce like legislation that just controls their like every move to the point where my great grandma was not even considered a person in this country my grandmother was not allowed to vote when she was 18 years old because status Indians were not allowed to vote that's why there's a picture of john deep baker behind me because he granted that right so it's been a really complex I look at it as phases. Like we only got out of that oppressive, you know, not being allowed to vote and stuff like that when my grandmother was an adult. And, you know, we're in 2025 now. We only now have rights over our own kids. Like there's been longstanding, where do we go next? I think this conversation will evolve. But interestingly enough, I don't want to divert too much.

The mass immigration has changed this conversation significantly. And it's made me as a First Nations person worried. because, you know, a lot of the original treaty signers were dealing with some of like other people's like European ancestors. Like it's almost like these two groups of people that had these descendants, me and my husband. That's why I have a Belgian last name because I married a non-indigenous person. But now with mass immigration coming in, there's a lot of people that don't understand not only, you know, the Canadian history and Canadian people as who we are and who we were when we fought in those wars. for what we wanted for rights, but also First Nations people too. So when people talk about immigration,

there's a lot of complexities on how that affects not only indigenous people and Canadians in general. I'll stop saying it. I feel really stupid for asking these questions, but I'm going to ask it anyways. You know, when you go nation to nation, that makes sense to me. I think of like, I'm going to think of like Britain and France. Two nations. They coexist. You know, they have their skirmishes, but, you know, they coexist.

this. So when you bring up Métis Nation and that you sign treaties with the crown, it's nation to nation, correct? Yeah. But what in my mind really complicates this, and I could be wrong. And so feel free once again to just shoot down where my brain's at. Then you have the Canadian government step in and like do every, well, I don't, not everything. That's a terrible choice of words. But like we're talking about money, we're talking about services, we're talking about feeling with all, like it's like they took away everything from the nation. And now you're getting it back. So is there a time in the future, foreseeable future, where you take zero money from the government? You're like, no, listen, we're done with you having control over what we're allowed to do. and we've created all these laws and systems, let's say,

so that we no longer want the handouts, or is that built into the treaties as well? Because if the treaties are signed between the Crown and the nation, in theory, that should be the working relationship. Instead, you have Canada come in and now complicate that relationship, a big time? Am I just mundling the water even more?

No, it makes sense because treaties are indefinite. They're between two sovereign nations, so the treaties are not intended to go anywhere. When you see a lot of what's happening on First Nations with like ban councils and that sort of thing, that's actually a direct like

a direct consequence, I guess I should say of the Indian Act. That's the Indian Act's doing. Indian Act wanted to centralize government. They wanted to control ban councils so and they still do the federal government you need bcr signed which is a ban council resolution at a first nation level to make any major changes funding agreements that sort of thing it's basically the fed's way of like putting their arms into the business of every nation out there so pretty much everything you see on a first nation level with like first nation's chief

and councils that's all indian act style of governing um that was the feds doing when they wanted to assimilate and control us after the treaties were signed the treaties are protected under section 35 of the constitution so you would have to reopen the constitution and attempt to eliminate section 35 because that's where our rights are actually protected so yeah not not to I I don't mean to pose it in a way of getting rid of the treaties just more of like the nation the nation thing makes sense to me like actually I don't know if I'd really thought about it until you said that way and I'm like oh okay so then the relationship that was designed, the treaties were signed between the Crown, which is Great Britain,

and the Métis Nation, or the groups of people that were here before, they signed all these individual treaties that get spread out across different parts of Canada as a whole, correct? Yes, but Mainti Nation are not treaty. They are not under the Indian Act and they are not treaty signatories. The Métis nation are their own, they call themselves like a nation, right? But they're like a registered, I think, like nonprofit, but the federal government recognizes them as a self-government. So now they have to be consulted on like lands and things like that. But they're not treaty signers because Métis people are a mix, right? That's why they.

Yes, yes, yes, yes. My grandma used to say we were called half breeds. So that complicates things. And I don't know the answer to that because I know there are nations and leaders that are not happy with the state of the Métis nation. And especially the money when that got brought up, there were a couple chiefs that were like, what is going on? um because that's the fed's complicating things you know not not communicating and consulting properly and not the whole thing um but no maintenance not a part of the treaties but yeah the treaties are i'm not a treaty expert by any means and i will admit that there's things i'm probably wrong about

it's just my interpretation and my understanding of to me what complicates it everything is everybody calling themselves a nation because as soon as you right well i don't know like you got canada but you didn't have Canada before when Great Britain was the crown was was signing the treaties with the different peoples that were here nations okay so then you got all those nations then the Métis yes I know the mix that the half breeds the everything then they go well we're a nation and if everybody says they're a nation isn't that just like this is why it's so confusing me to try and follow along that I guess is what I'm trying to say and I'm like how do we just uncomplicate this? Or is that not possible?

I think the feds have played a role in complicating things a lot. I know on the First Nation side, a lot of the complicated pieces are because of them. Like we're operating in systems that we never designed. We want to revitalize our own and the way we know how to govern. So they've definitely complicated things. And it's all about government control. Like I hate to be that person, but this all stems from government control. So shockingly enough, it's really confusing and as someone that has studied political theory and and develops policy my area is to make sure people do understand and to make government and rules and laws less complicated because the easier society can function and now we have so much bureaucracy and like seeing in 2017 when Justin

Trudeau split those two departments into two I was like why in 2017 are we making more bureaucracy for first nations people and this was a government that was also talking about reconciliation And I'm like, we have more control now than ever. Like there's more bureaucracy, double the public servants. What the heck are you doing? And it's to the point now, like two of us, you and I can't even have these conversations without there being confusion, which is really sad. But it's like I don't even understand some of it.

And that's just the cold, hard truth. And I will say that as a First Nations person, I just live my daily life. I own a home in a city. I pay corporate taxes on my business. My husband works his job. We just exist. But then my day to the day. day is working on these governance issues and it's really difficult to untangle like really really

difficult and it's almost by design by the by the government i'm like if you can't understand it i have no chance i have like zero chance of even beginning to understand how we unravel this this i don't know like it's it's just very confusing to me right like you know i i i always i know it's not possible. I have this very kumbaya, very optimistic look on society of like, you know, everybody getting along and, you know, like you walk out in a healthy community, it is like that. You take a step and then you try and untangle the web of all the things that are at play here. And it's just, it's very confusing. I mean, I sit here and I'm like, okay, so a Métis woman who wants to understand what is going on in the Métis nation of Saskatchewan by asking questions,

is being locked out of it. And I'm like, that sounds an awful lot like a dude or a woman asking questions about our current government. Any one of them take any level and you have the same problems we have. I mean, I might be oversimplifying it, but that's what it sounds like. Yeah, they could use the excuse that I'm not Métis

because I'm status, because my dad is status, but my kids are Métis and my mom's Métis. So I should have a right to go into those meetings, but it is becoming like if you want to act like a government then you need to be held accountable like governments are and that's why i'm not liking like their argument to me and my cease and desist was like their CEO is like a private employee and citizen blah blah blah blah blah but governments don't have CEOs and like I'm sorry but if you're going to stunt and act like a government if it quacks like a duck and it walks like a duck it's a duck and i'm like if you're going to pretend

to be a government sorry allegedly you're a self-government i'm going to question some of the decisions you're making in that government, just like I do every other government out there. There hasn't been a political party or a governing body that has been free from my criticism. But it seems like a really weird, I don't know. And it's like even my corporation, people could pull my corporate on my business if they want to. And like the fact that this seems to be floating under the radar for literally everyone has been crazy to me.

It's now on the radar of a lot of people because they've been watching the content. yeah you're right it is confusing it's a mess one of the number one questions i actually get asked all the time is like will you start breaking this stuff down i know there's non-indigenous people that are like i just want to hear it talked about i don't want to be made to feel guilty or made to feel like a bad person for asking questions i just want to know probably one of the number one requests i get is to talk about these exact things well i i it's uncomfortable i don't like i don't i just like to me you know i i well first before we go hop into that you said they might be able to question your your mayty status because your your status yeah yeah i don't have a matey card but everyone in your lineage is maytee didn't i

just hear you say your grandmother's no my dad is first nations and my mom is maytee so i am a registered status indian under the indian act like i have a status card so i cannot be maytee because they will not allow you to be both so and it goes back to the programming right they don't to get access to programs and things like that when you're also treaty, which I don't get anything from being treaty. Like I still pay corporate taxes. I still, I pay into health insurance, like, all of those things. And I'm not going to take advantage of their Métis programs anyway. I would just like to vote because I think the leadership needs to be changed, but I can't do that either. So it's very weird and bureaucratic and I don't know.

Well, it sounds like the same issues that plague you plague every day. Canadians, honestly. It seems very, well, it is, it's by, I suppose by design, it's very confusing. And I suppose I could take the next 10 years of my life to try and understand it. I just, I'm like, I have Jennifer on. I'm like, might as well ask stupid questions and, and see if any of it resonates or sits or answers some questions. And one of the ones, you know, that people talk, so I think it was Jeff Party, Jeff Party, Bruce Party and Jeff Rath when they were on. They were arguing about, you know, if you started a new nation. And party was saying you can't have two different types of citizens.

You just need to have a citizen. And what he was trying to say about First Nations, I think, and I don't want to quote Bruce here. I'm just my recollection of it was go out to First Nations and say, listen, we'll give you a land. We'll, I don't know, like all these things, but let's start as equals. What are your thoughts on that? I don't know. It's definitely a hard conversation. I haven't really been able to wrap my head around.

But I'm, you know, there's this really uncomfortable conversation that I have a hard time talking about because I don't want to upset my own people and I don't want to upset, you know, my family members or anyone for that matter. But I'm not naive to the reality. You know, my husband worked in a prison and I know that the majority of the people, in there were indigenous. The night that my husband didn't even think he was going to make it home and he was held hostage, it was an indigenous person that unfortunately, you know, destroyed the unit and put my husband's life at risk. You know, I have a nation where one of my grandparents on my dad's side is from that is very, very gang heavy and I can't take my husband there. I recognize

that these issues are really, really bad and people are feeling defeated. I know that there's Canadians out there that feel defeated with the fact that there's a lot of dollars flowing to our communities and to our spaces. And I would be lying if I said that I don't get defeated a lot of the time. I have seen mismanagement. I quit jobs where there was a level of corruption in that job with my own people. I've seen it firsthand. I know it's there. And I know that we need to move forward in a good way. And we need to have this real, real conversation about what do we do next? Because trying to unravel some of this corruption, if the average Canadian thinks it's bad, imagine being an indigenous person trying to just be heard and just trying to like hold your own people accountable and

there's lateral violence and there's death threats and there's people trying to protect it at all cost but then the outcome of mismanagement and wrongdoing is people suffering and those addictions and crime and all of those things don't get fixed and I'm like well what do we do next then like we can't keep this going I don't want this to keep going for my own kids so what what's next like I had someone tell me the other day and this like still really upsets me. me, they told me that they're ready to cut up their Méti card. They're like, I'm pretty much done with this. And I'm like, you like, we have indigenous people now that are like, I'm ready to cut

up my card and just be done with it. It's like, that's the place that we're at. And I've, you know, I've told my husband, I'm, I'm grateful every day that I belong to a nation that, you know, they submit their financial audits every year to the feds. We've invested in major projects. My, my nation has been there to support me in in ways that I've needed, which is mostly just like emotional or friendship support. So I'm lucky that way, but I've seen nations that are mismanaged and the money is mishandled and the leadership are taking trips every three days all over the place.

I've sat in rooms in Vegas over meetings on child welfare. Yes, that has happened. And it's like this is not how you fix anything. And maybe it's time we acknowledge the fact that people have questions and those questions are legitimate because of what we're putting out there and what we're showing. And I don't want to make it all look bad because there's a long history that has to be untangle. and has to be reconciled, but it's on us now, and we have a duty to fix this, not for, not for the sake of like outside people, but for our own kids that are going to grow up with what we're passing for them.

I appreciate you coming on and dealing with my questions today, because I'm, you know, like once again, I remember Clint, I think it was Clint Chokin, this is going way back. This is well before you were ever on. I was asking, you know, like, how do we, you know, bring people together, right? And he said, well, we've been coming to you for a long time. It'd be nice if you came to us. And you just came out and asked your questions. And I was like, oh.

And that's a very uncomfortable feeling. I don't know why, right? It's just like, I don't know the proper etiquette of asking questions. And yet, in our own government at times, I chuckle, because I'm sure my etiquette isn't exactly smiled upon when I'm asking different people questions about something that just seems so common sense. Like, we should just talk about it. It seems really strange.

And to watch you get removed from there, I'm like, it's happening to everyone. It just isn't happening to a certain sect right now. It seems to be happening to anyone with their head on that it's willing to ask questions. And, you know, it just seems like it's a dangerous thing in Canada today to want to ask questions. And that's going across the board now. My piece of advice coming from the political side of things would be for people not to get discouraged. The more complacency that we have in government is where we actually bring in bad politicians. Get involved with your local EDAs. That grassroots representation is so important.

Do not follow the stereotypes of like splitting the vote and all of those sorts of things. The sooner we get back to voting for people that actually care about their communities and contribute to their communities and want to represent their communities, the better. that goes for every federal party out there because I hear it often, like, don't vote for this party because they don't have enough support or whatever it is. That's the exact attitude that's keeping complacency in power in this country, provincially, municipally, and it has to change.

And I know my husband's up against those same battles. He's an elected official in my city, and he's not afraid to ask questions. I think he's the youngest one ever elected to the city. We keep our politics quite separate, but he's not afraid to ask questions. And as someone that coaches leadership, if I tell them that every day. I'm like, do not back down on anything that you feel is driving you morally.

And the minute you start being detached from the people you represent, that's where the trouble seeps in. Jennifer, appreciate you coming on today. Is there any final thoughts you have before I let you out of here? No. If anyone has any questions, just follow me and keep updated on the legal battle that I'm going to probably have on my hands. Well, good luck with that. And appreciate you giving me some time today. Look forward to the next time you're on. Hopefully, hopefully, a federal election. I know we're a long ways away from that. But, you know, a guy can hope. A guy can hope. Yeah. Yeah, no, thank you. It's nice to switch up the conversation from federal politics. Well, I don't know. Certainly on this side, I might be more confused after all of this. But I'm like, that's,

honestly, that's how it always starts, you know, it seems like I'm like, that doesn't make any sense. will probably spur on more conversations if I'm being honest with myself. Honestly, yeah, it would be great to do some follow-ups with like, yeah, lawyers, people in the resource industry, it kind of opens up all those conversations. Well, thanks again. Yep. Thank you.