Shaun Newman Podcast - #914 - Vance Crowe

Episode Date: September 16, 2025

Vance Crowe is a communications strategist, keynote speaker, and entrepreneur from St. Louis, Missouri, known for his ability to unpack complex issues and craft compelling messages. Raised on an Illinois family farm, he honed his storytelling through diverse experiences—serving as a Peace Corps volunteer in Africa, a deckhand, and Director of Millennial Engagement at Monsanto, where he spoke to over 250,000 people on ag policy and controversial tech. Crowe founded Legacy Interviews, preserving personal histories, and hosts The Vance Crowe Podcast, diving into art, psychology, economics, and farming with global experts. To watch the Full Cornerstone Forum: https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcastGet your voice heard: Text Shaun 587-217-8500Silver Gold Bull Links:Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/Email: [e-mail] Grahame: [phone]Bow Valley Credit UnionBitcoin: www.bowvalleycu.com/en/personal/investing-wealth/bitcoin-gatewayEmail: [e-mail] Use the code “SNP” on all ordersProphet River Links:Website: store.prophetriver.com/Email: [e-mail] Money SummitWebsite: ExpatMoneySummit.com

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This is Tammy Peterson. This is Danielle Smith. This is James Lindsay. Hey, this is Brett Kessel, and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks. Happy Tuesday. How's everybody doing today? The number of ounces of silver need to buy an ounce of gold now at near 30-year high.

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If you're on silvergoldbill.ca or dot com, just to make sure to reference the Sean Newman podcast. Profit River! Well, I tell you what, here in Canada, if you're looking for anything to do with firearms and you're sitting in any part of this country, look no further than, Offit River, all right? Doesn't matter what part of the country in, west, east, north. I guess south.

Yeah, south. I don't know. I don't know why that sounds weird. I sit right in the middle, I guess south too. Anyways, anywhere you're at, I don't know why that. Why does saying south bug me? I think of the United States. Yeah, I'm thinking Canada.

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That gets you put in for monthly draws. And yeah, just go to Profitriver.com. They're the major retailers of firearms, optics, and accessories serving all of Canada to the west, the east, the north, and I guess the south. Rect tech power products, and I'm goofy today. Rec tech power products for over 20 years, they've been committed to excellence in the power sports industry. They've got everything in their showroom on the west satellite Minster, everything from Alberta built aluminum trailers to lawnmores and then all the fun stuff, right? the quads, the, the, the, the Cedoo pontoon boat, the lun fishing boats, skidoo's on and on and on and on.

If you haven't stopped into their showroom, you should. Like, it is, I hope I'm not overselling. I don't think I am. You walk in, you're like, this is a nice showroom. It's a nice building. And the amount of machines they have in there is staggering, to say the least. They got a ton of options there. Golf carts.

You know, we were at Shays. my oldest is a football game over the weekend. And, you know, in football, full contact between 9 and 12-year-olds, you can imagine there's a few kids with some tears in their eyes, getting injured, and constantly, you know, the trainers coming out and slowly walking them off the field. And you can imagine this is why they have a golf cart in football. To just kind of speed up the process, I was thinking, you know,

me and Dust, my brother were talking. Rectect should really put a golf cart there. Maybe I'll suggest that to them. they get a ton I mean it's kids football but you know they get to buzz out on the field and trough of one of their things

I don't know I'm a goofball today welcome to Tuesday where Sean is all over the place when it comes to rec tech they're open Monday through Saturday and for further details you can visit them at rectech power products

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And this one, this past one, I wrote about Charlie Kirk. And, uh, that was, I wrestled with it for a long time. That was a really hard thing to get my thoughts around. I had lots of wonderful conversations. I sat with Tews and Chris Sims, and we talked about a part of it then. Then I had a whole bunch of you reach out, send things, and I just, I don't know, felt compelled to try and put that together.

I don't know if I, I think I did an okay job. I was annoyed with myself, though, because it was just so much to try and say, and I just couldn't seem to get it to drive, you know? It's almost like a guy needed to write an essay on it, and I'm like, I don't want to write. I don't want to write an essay on it. Or maybe I do.

I don't know. Anyways, the week and review this past week has that all there. It's free to subscribe to. I'm not blowing up your email inbox. You know, it comes out Friday, oh man, Sundays at 5 p.m. It gives you, there's down at the bottom of this past week in review is the week in review, which is about a three-minute video highlighting the guests of the previous week. That's where you can get that.

You can also become a paid member and support what we do here on the, the show, you know, I, I probably don't point this out enough, but, you know, we're not government funded. I know you all know that. But to make a go of it, if you want to become a paid member, would love that. And if there's things you want me to do on this side for paid members, you got ideas. You're like, you know, it would be really cool if you did X, Y, Z. I'm all about enhancing the experience of being a paid member and getting behind the paid

wall. I want to do things that are meaningful for you. So if you become a paid member, feel free to comment or shoot me a text and say, hey, I'd love to see this there. Because I'm always open to that idea as well. So the substack, the week and review this one, or this week, I guess, you know, just talking about Charlie Kirk. And that was probably a healthy exercise to do on this end. We also have the new studio coming. Yes, it is coming.

Yes. You know, what did one of my brothers say? The last 5% takes all the time. It's these last things that just are taking time. But I tell you what, here's the exciting thing. The new chairs for the studio are on their way. They should be here in this week. This week they're supposed to arrive.

Super excited about that. I am like pumped to see what they look like. I'm hopeful they are what I had planned to have in there. So who knows? I guess that'll be something to pay attention to. If you're watching or listening on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, Rumble, X, make sure to subscribe, make sure to leave a review. Make sure to leave a rating, folks.

That really helps. All your comments help. If you enjoy the show, share it with a friend. I've been rambling now for almost eight minutes, and I don't even know how this got away from me. It got away from me on a Tuesday. Yeah, appreciate all of you, and I hope you're all doing well. Now, let's get on to that tale of the tape.

Today's guest is a communication strategist, public speaker and founder of legacy interviews. I'm talking about Vance Crow. So buckle up. Here we go. Welcome to the Sean Numa podcast. Today I'm joined by Vance Crow. Vance, thanks for doing this. Thanks for having me, Sean.

Well, I was just saying to a buddy of mine when I thought about this, I can't remember when I text you, but I was, you know, since Charlie Kirk, I'm talking about, I've been thinking a lot about it. And I'm like, who could I? I'm like, I should have a conversation with Vance. I'd be very curious your thoughts on everything that's transpired over the last, you know, several days and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, I, I appreciate you coming on. Before we get into Charlie Kirk, I do want to ask about fatherhood, because now you got your third congrats. I don't think you've been on the podcast since that happened. And, um, so, hey, that's something to celebrate. And, uh, uh, uh, but three is a different beast than, then, uh, you know, two. I was just talking with a lady at hockey practice. He's like, yeah, go from man on man to zone coverage. And that is just a whole different thing. How have things been going? I mean, when people say that, it becomes a cliche where you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know we're moving to zone defense.

And then all of a sudden you're in it and you're like, oh, no, this is real. I have to now both get my three-year-old dressed and make sure she doesn't accidentally smash her younger brother and make sure that my five-year-old doesn't think I'm preferencing the three-year-old. But, you know, it's this frustration that is the meaning of life, right? It's the, it's the like these tiny little things shouldn't matter. I'm so frustrated with them. I want to get to the other thing. However, this thing, this that we're talking about raising kids and all that chaos, that is where the meaning of life, I think, lays.

Yeah, I would agree. You know, after I've been talking about a lot, but, you know, okay, so Charlie Kirk get shot. And I was in a podcast at the time. And then all these videos, people were texting me. You can imagine the phone line how that sparked after that. And I didn't realize, you know, I just saw Charlie Curr. So I clicked on it. Then I watched it. And I'm like, oh, can't undo that. And, you know, I felt this, I don't know, this numb, whatever the word is. I can never seem to just quite place the word. And the only thing that gave me a little bit of sunshine that day is I went home and the kids were arguing about something

and I was just laughing. I'm like, you know, like, and there's an escape in your children, especially when they're young because they, they have no idea what's going on, right? Like, I mean, their world, what's happening is, is their brother was, you know,

every parent probably gets a chuckle out of this. Shea, my oldest, goes on the trampoline. He's just laying there. He wants a quiet time on the trampoline. Why he picks the trampoline, there's probably a bunch of reasons. So then my daughter goes out,

there to bounce on said trampoline. Well, this can't happen. And the whole thing erupted. And I'm just like, but she, but she, it's a trampoline. And your sister just wants to do like gymnastics on it. Yeah, but I was there first and they have this whole thing. And moments like that just pull you out of thinking about the larger picture into like this little world that only parents get to exist in. And so, yeah, there's, there's a lot of, uh, I chuckle because it, you know, like the things that get me out of my own brain over the course of the weekend was everything to do with kids well you know we've talked about this before that uh the garden of eden is a metaphor for childhood right where you're protecting the children they don't actually know about good and evil

that's around and you're helping them as they learn to name the animals and they're in this protective place and a parent's job is to prepare them because when they leave the garden of eden there are these angels with flaming swords that won't let you back in because once you leave your naivety it's gone and uh this was one of those experiences where we had to decide are we going to talk with our little daughter about this because viola's very perceptive you know do you bring the news of the outside world into the garden of eden and uh we did choose to tell her about that and and to me i was like are we doing something wrong are we robbing her of the garden of eden by doing this, but at its core, this is going to be a, I believe, a moment that is remembered for decades,

you know, maybe as long as Martin Luther King or JFK. And so we did opt to talk with Violet about that. She didn't really understand it, but it was definitely a jarring moment to say, should I remove these children or bring some of the chaos into the Garden of Eden? and we chose to. Well, go back to Thursday for me. I'm curious your thoughts on Charlie Kirk being assassinated, murdered, shot. I take your pick of whatever word you want to associate to it. And, you know, you being in the States, and, you know, like, you know,

if you go back through all of our conversations since I first had you on, you are a man I respect in the realm of what is happening societally, culturally, you've been an early guy to, you know, to find Jordan Peterson and bring him in and then face the wrath of doing that back in your corporate career. You know, like when you see what happened to Charlie Kirk, where does your brain go? That was horrifying. I was actually on Wednesday, I was at a talk and I had just given a talk about exploring complicated ideas and how you need to push yourself to hear things that you don't agree with. And I was watching a really an excellent speaker up on the stage. And I looked down at my phone and it said, you know,

this thing happened to Charlie Cook. I didn't even really understand what I was looking at when I saw him get shot. And so for all intents and purposes, it might as well have been live. To me, it was. And then you're left grappling with this. And, you know, I turned to an older guy that was sitting at a table with me and i i said charlie kirk's been shot i i can't imagine how he's going to live through this and the older guy didn't know who he was but there were other young there were young guys in there there were a bunch of college kids in there i was like i guarantee every single one of those kids knows who he is and uh and then going home from that conference uh because i was about over uh i flew home and i didn't want to bring this up with anybody that i was flying with so i

felt the terrible pangs of loneliness where you are dealing with somebody and there's something and everyone you look at, you're like, I don't know what you feel about this, what you think about this. I don't really know anything about what's going on right now. And it felt very lonely and very isolating until the next morning when my wife woke up and we were able to talk about it. And I still am just in a complete days. Like, he is the very best of us. He is our brother, you know, he is our son. He is like the shining example of the best way that you could go out and interact with your, um, adversaries with your enemies.

And he was shot and killed. And I still am, I'm, I'm, I'm, I, it's weird to grieve for a person you never met in person, but I am definitely in the phase of grief. Yeah, that's, that's what I've been wrestling with. Um, I guess my first comment on that is Mel didn't know who he was, right? And in fairness, I don't want to give too much of what goes on in the Newman household, but I probably have over the course of the show.

Who am I kidding? It probably leaks out. But like, you know, I wrestle with some of the darkest issues society has, and I leave my wife to wrestle with three children. And, you know, like I try and, you know, at times let it in. Sometimes you don't let it in. It's kind of the discussion. and do you let your daughter, you know, understand the gravity of what's going on?

And I'm not saying Mel doesn't pay attention to what society is going on. She just isn't watching Charlie Kirk videos, right? Like, you know, and what I found interesting, and you brought up, you talked to the old guy, old guy's like, who's that? And I talked to enough people maybe closer to my age and older, and it's probably 50-50 on whether they knew who he was. I ran into as young as probably

I don't know like eight or nine let's say 10 fans and they knew who Charlie Kirk was like that's who he was speaking he was speaking to a young audience and when you talk about the best of us it's like yeah this is

this is something and it's affecting the young not as much the 70 year old and I'm not saying the 70 year old for the listeners podcast certainly there are but the younger generation Like, there is a ton of outcry from them.

And then the thing that's been bugging me, I wrote about it on substack, because I just, you just said it. I'm like, I never met the guy, never interviewed the guy, never went to one of his events. And yet, it's bothered me. It's just like, I can't, I brought up with twos and Chris Sims on Friday's mashup

because I'm just, I don't get it. So then I've had a ton of people send me a whole bunch of different things. Some of it makes sense, right? Some of it I'm just like, yeah, yeah, I guess. I don't know. And I've been left with this. I keep using the word numb because I'm just like, I don't know.

So don't know where to place the feelings. I just, it seems so odd to me. Trump gets shot in the head. My first like gut feeling wasn't sorrow. It was like, holy crap, we've crossed something we can't come back from. Like this might be all a war type thing. Where Charlie Kirk gets shot, I watched a video. And I'm like, I had the similar thought to you.

I'm like, I don't think you can survive that. Like, that was something. And immediately, it was this sadness. I don't know what else to call it. I just like, what, what is going on? Every once in a while, Sean gets in his own head. I'm sitting there. I hate to talk about myself in the third person.

But I was sitting there. And Mel's like, where are you at right now? I'm like, I don't know. And that was a night where Mel was trying to talk to me. And she's like, you are somewhere else. I'm trying to talk to you and you're somewhere else. I'm like, I am somewhere else. I'm trying to think this true and I'm having a very difficult time. I mean, I think that that's, it was one of those moments where I needed to talk with my wife, even though she like Mel, doesn't really know much

about Charlie Kirk. It really avoids politics entirely. And, but it was just in talking with her. You know, I think for me, the thing that resonated with me and Charlie is that I believe very deeply in talking with people. In fact, that's always my guidance. You have a conflict with somebody? Let's go talk to him. You are struggling to find a way out of this challenging space. Let's go talk. Because people that have really ever thought about it know there's really only three options in a conflict. You can either lay down and let somebody just walk over you. You can talk with them or you can go to violence. and Charlie was extraordinary at talking with people, and that's what he was doing. And he allowed anyone to come up.

And despite the fact that they had not worked to build a platform, they had not done all of the effort to make it possible for this discussion to happen. He would allow them a microphone and a platform. And to watch how he handled all of this hate and anger and disagreement and people trying to embarrass him, he just kept coming back. And even if you don't like what he was saying, what he was doing was truly extraordinary. I've gone out and argued with a room full of people or been in the room when everyone else disagrees with you. And it's hot and it does not feel comfortable. He was doing this at orders of magnitude larger over and over and over again. And instead of becoming a cynical, angry, mean person, he was happy.

He was talking about, hey, this is the way back to. a family this is what is going to provide meaning in your life these are the things that are the best of what i'm offering and and they're free to you and they shot him you know like they fucking shot him because they didn't they didn't want to hear that they didn't want other people to know his message and that is the darkest thing like somebody wanted to turn off that light forever what do you see coming out of this i mean it's so early it's such a question, not a silly question. It's just, it's a difficult thing to answer probably, but like, I don't know. I assume a lot of us went after you get through the initial like, did that really just happen?

And one of the things you said about watching it is it felt like it was live. Well, shoot, you can rewatch it like it is live. And in fairness, you know, when it gets sent to me, I, does it matter if it was 10 minutes before, an hour before with the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the. of the phone being everywhere and then being able to just put whatever you want right onto x youtube etc right and just see it it feels like it's live i don't think we can actually comprehend any different it's happening live for us so it is live that has gone through the world the world has witnessed that now you know there's going to be people who cancel their speaking tours who now heightened security has to go up. Like, I mean, I'm not saying I want it to go up, but there's no way around it. Somebody's been shot.

This is going to ripple into the next decade of how you talk, when you're talking controversially, whatever that can mean to people, security is going to go through the wazoo. They're going to have to. I mean, you can't say this is a one-off when now you've had Trump shot, now you've had Charlie assassinated, right? Like, you know, and I even just go even go back further. You had Dave Chappelle tackled on stage, right? You had Will Smith give, I mean, that's two celebrities, but still, like, the stage had kind of been, I mean, if you made a rush for it, you were up there.

And we were seeing this happen over and over again. Now it's gone to a whole completely different realm. Yeah, I mean, I'm a person that has gone out and spoken and been, you know, where we've had security out for anti-GMO protesters, for animal activist protesters. But I never, never even felt slightly afraid in any of these circumstances. And now looking at what the way that the world is turned, you have to ask yourself, like, is it a good thing that security is going to go up? It's going to mean that less people can see somebody that's got something to say. It means that the government, the people that have the monopoly on violence now get more control. We're going to do more gun screenings, more metal detectors, more separation.

You know, as an outcropping of this, I think it is an obvious next step that that will happen. But I hate it, right? Like I really, really dislike this. And to dissuade more people from talking means you only have two options less. which is lay down or violence. And once violence starts, it is a Pandora's box. This is like, you know, I remember Jordan Peterson always talking about, hey, left, you guys are the quickest to go to the violence.

But if the right goes to violence, they're going to be organized, and they're going to be methodical, and they're going to be very deliberate, and they know what they're doing. But one thing that I would caution the right on is once violence gets out into a culture, there is no stopping it, right? We will see more and more cowards shooting people from a long way off. We will see people shooting the most vulnerable. So all of these like unintended consequences of this are so monumental.

You ask me, what do I think will come of this? I really don't know, but I can tell you the, you know, there's a term in kind of modern parlance called the normies, right? So you have the normies are the people that they're just going to work. They're just doing their job. They're just raising their family or doing whatever. In the past, the normies were told, if you just keep quiet and you don't get worked up, their ideologies being put to you in corporate America or in your coffee shop or

in your, whatever, your kid's school, if you just kind of put up with it, like it's going to go away. They're just kind of doing their own thing. Don't let that. But the normies that I talk to this weekend, the guys that have always avoided controversy at work, have always avoided, you know, saying something back to people, I don't think they're going to be that way anymore. Because I think they see now that staying quiet or not speaking up doesn't do anything for you. And that, that I think this is going to create maybe some people that will be afraid and won't speak as much. but I sense there are a lot of men our age that are going to say,

I've been quiet for too long. I've been afraid for too long, and now I'm going to do something. And I have no idea what that something will be. Well, it's funny. I feel like I've been quiet for too long. Isn't that a funny thing to think? As a guy who does this show,

and I don't know, I'm anything but quiet. But I watch Charlie, and one of the things that I always, you know, somewhere in the back of my brain I went, As long as Charlie's there, I don't have to be there. And I'm not saying I'm going to go around to college campuses. That's not what I'm saying, folks.

But he was just a guy on the front lines doing things in the way that I thought, you know, like, man, that, that's, that is a tough gig. And yet he's doing it with a smile on his face, married kids, you know, like all the things that I really hold very high. And he's roaming around the United States. I'm like, that's pretty cool. And then he goes away and you're like, I'm obviously, you know, like, what do you do with that? You can't do less. You can't, you know, you can't just act like that happened in a vacuum. And, you know, like, I don't know, I feel like, like I sit here and I'm probably not doing enough.

That's a crazy thing to say out loud, I think. Well, I mean, I think the only thing that can be done right now can't be told to us. by influencers. You know, even, even me, I went out and was like, all right, who are people that I like? I'm going to go listen to him. Let's, let's go listen to Scott Adams, the creator of Dilbert. What is he ever to say? Let's go see what Nick Fuentes, this new rising voice, what does he think? What does Sam Hyde think? What does Joe Rogan think? And, you know, I think in part it's because you're so aimless. I went to church and the priest gave a fine sermon, but he didn't say this is what you ought to do with the Charlie Kirk situation.

And the core thing, I think, that is bothering me right now is that I don't know what the wise behavior is. You know, it used to be intuitive and obvious that the wise answer was continue to talk. It was find a way through this. find a way that you can either get through to another person or they can expose you to an idea that allows you to understand them better. But I feel like counseling, hey, let's just talk more is not wise. Because if the other side is being violent, what are you going to do there? But I find myself absolutely recoiling against the idea of, hey, let's ban together and let's go get

vigilante justice or let's go get you know retribution in some way and the space in between those is methodical patient calm thoughtful and that is very hard um when just like you i feel like i should be doing something in response to this i don't want the energy to die and i don't want him to have died in vain i feel like whether it was charlie or someone else this was going to happen. And I think the response is to keep talking, is to keep, is literally to, and the danger of that, I think has just become very prevalent to anyone sitting on, you know, I think of you a lot, right?

You know, I've told you this a lot. Anyone who got to see you at the rural urban divide years ago now with Quick Dick McDick and Steve barber will have seen you firsthand on my stage and i always like fancy you're you're one of those speakers i've had that i feel like takes it as serious as me that's a small category there are others but um you know like i've been i don't know i can't give you high enough accolades for how you treat the stage it's it's it's really cool to watch and be a part of and uh i guess i just in my head i'm not going to let them take that away from me i i still revere that that stage for trying to put the different ideas there.

And the danger of it, probably none of us realized because it had never been escalated to this point. But I will not let them take that away. I do not think stopping talking, you need to talk more. And I think when you can't, when you see the tides are changing, so to speak, in where the public, you know, like is slowly, starting to shift and you're losing control, the emotional outburst is violence. And they, and they did that. You know, this, this guy did that. And I'm like, it's,

chances are, there's only more violent outbursts. But if we stop talking, that is what they want. They, you know, like, they don't want the ideas being talked about. They don't want people starting to understand, huh, that makes sense. Like, I think of Jordan Pee, I was one of the most influential people in the last decade on my life because he started talking and when he started you and then you go listen to the lecture series, you're like, oh my God, he's putting together pieces for me that have been rolling around in my head and I couldn't figure them out and in walks this guy and they're just all there. And different things help different people.

I have 900 plus episodes on this thing and sometimes I think, man, what a junk episode that was. And as I think that, and I've thought that lots, there will be at least one person who texts me saying they needed to hear that conversation, which always shocks me because I'm like, what wasn't in that conversation? But there's something. And we're all finding our different things that help us put the puzzle pieces of life together, I think. You know, Sean, I've told you, I think I've even said it on the air before, but I've told

you privately many times that what you are doing, whether you recognize it or not, puts you in great danger. And I've never thought of it in terms of a lone gunman. I think your government could come and arrest you and put you in a cell for not just years, but decades. And I think that your government has shown on multiple occasions that they will use the force of the government against you. And I think that that's the wild card here, right? It's not just, hey, there are deranged lunatics that are, you know, going to do some lone gunmen things and kill individuals, but then you also have the state to worry about. And so I think about this idea of, like, we need to continue talking and we'll let the security apparatus do it. We will let the

government step in and try and resolve this conflict. And it does not intuitively, it does not seem obvious to me that that the natural course of how these things generally play out is going to put us in a better position. Yeah, I hear you. But if I look back through history, the state has always been the state. The extremists have always done extreme things.

There's always been events that come across in a man's lifetime that you have an option of, you know, like, you know, do they coming arrest me. I don't know. I used to get texts in the middle of COVID. I don't remember if I told you this in advance that it was like, are you still there? Like they haven't come yet. Be careful. They might put a black bag over your head. Can you imagine getting sent that as I'm wrestling with everything I'm doing? I'm sure they were, they were texts of like concern. But sitting on this side, it was like, yeah, no, I know nobody's come yet, you know. But I don't know. If that's, you know, it's, I don't mean to say that I'm so, uh, righteous that I want to go to jail.

I don't. But if that's where we get to, I don't know how to, I don't know how to do anything differently than what I'm doing. I could go do the show in some other country, I guess, and disappear from life and, and then try and talk about it from afar, but that just doesn't seem to fit who I am. I don't know. And maybe I could get there, maybe. And if that's where society comes to here, I just think we're in such a dark place

you know, there are men who come along, Charlie was one of them, that in the darkness he started just shining a little bit of light. In Charlie's case, he shone a big light. He had a big light to shine. And they took him up for it, you know? And does Charlie, like, can you put Charlie, does he want to go that way? I have no idea. Probably not. Probably wanted to live a long, fruitful life. Watchers kids grow, watch their kids get married, have kids, be a grandparent, all the lovely things. But when the darkness comes, there's just like a choice, I think, you know? Are you going to, are you going to ignore it, disappear into it? I don't know.

I feel like at times you got to put a, you know, you have to make a stand. And I don't mean a stand in a way that I want to go to jail. I don't want to do any of those things. I had a really good conversation with my buddy, Jay Curtis, about courage and about how courage is. is one of those things where nobody wants to be put in the situation where they will be required to have courage. Right? We all think like I want to be courageous if I am put in that situation, but nobody wants to be in the situation where you have to prove whether you're courageous. Because courage is one of those things. There's a concept in philosophy known as the golden

mean, right? Courage is not just maximizing, I am not afraid. Right? It's like that'd be recklessness, right? And the opposite of recklessness is cowardice, right? I'm not willing to run into anything. But the golden mean is not right in between those two things. You're kind of, you know, kind of reckless and kind of not. It is probably closer to reckless, but knowing, hey, I may get hurt in this. Things may not work out. In fact, it appears as though it is likely they won't work out. But the proper way to behave is more towards. reckless and danger than it is away from cowardice. And that's why courage is such a high price. And the reason it's a high price is because it does, in order to require it, you have to be in the position where things don't look good. And I think that that may be the situation we're in. And I don't know exactly what would be a courageous move right now. But I suspect that it's going to cost everyone something if they're going to. want to take the courageous action.

Well, sitting here, father to father, would I don't want to have happen? And maybe it's just inevitable that it will eventually have to happen. I just don't want my kids to have to deal with this. I don't know if it's, maybe you raise your kids differently. But I just look at it. Do I want them to understand what's going on in the world? Yes. Do I want them to have to do the things I'm doing?

I want them do whatever the heck they want to do. and I hope to support them and I hope they become a benefit to society and a good key member of a community and try and instill all those values. The stuff that we're wrestling with here in Canada these days, I don't want them to have to deal with this. So that falls on my shoulders. And so therefore, I have to do what I see is best for the future generation, which is my kids' generation. and that means talking about the insanity that is happening here in our world. I mean, we didn't have Charlie Kirk up here. That doesn't mean it can happen.

I certainly do not want it to happen. We have other insanity going on that is just as insane, and it needs to be talked about it. And if we stop talking about it, then eventually it falls to the next generation, because they're going to inherit it. So I have no choice but to continue to talk and continue to put things together

that I hope spur on meaningful dialogue. Well, there is, when I try and think about this, I try and think, why is this happening, right? Like, what is the reasoning? And I have a lens through which I see a lot. And that is through the lens of our work and our time. And when you combine work and time, if it's been valuable work, you will receive money for that. And that money goes into a place that you should be able to hold.

and use in the future. But I believe that we have set up a society where there are enough people that are voting for a government to continue to steal all of the value of our work and our time through not taxes, which they have those, but through printing of money. And as more and more money gets printed,

it makes people have to run faster and faster and faster to stay in the same place. And so the very reason we're doing all of this work, which is to make sure that our children, to your point, have the best lives possible, are able to, you know, move forward and explore this universe of ours and have the opportunity to create things. We're not getting to spend any time with our kids because we're working so much harder. And we're having our, you know, and both parents having to work. And to me, we will continue the reason that so much nihilism has come up where people are like there is no future

I have no hope is because we have set up a democracy that is allowing our politicians to do this to us and then we're sitting there wondering why everything is going terribly and and yet this it we are voting for it ourselves and yet we're not the first people in history to have this cycle of events maybe don't get me wrong these are specific to us but this cycle of events has happened and so yes i you know i was i was thinking about you know had martin armstrong on here a bunch of times and he was at the cornerstone forum and in 2020 talked about 2032 and it really bugged me it was like what is he talking about 2032 i was thinking in days weeks maybe a month it had not not in decades and you know over the course once again of a podcast and talking to people such as yourself

and others you know you just start to expand your horizon and i like to think kids help with that because then you start thinking oh man what's this gonna you know if we go down this track what's gonna you know you just start looking a little further out and i asked martin like 2032 big culmination you know of a whole bunch of things culminating and then there's a change in is it the US is the is it globally take your pick but basically something happens during that year roughly I'm being you know like what is it who knows and off we go in a different direction and I kept asking Martin well how do we get there like how do we and he's like I have no idea like it could be just small events but when you look over the course of just the 2000s and the different events that just

slowly are playing out one after another civil unrest going up you talking about the the wealth of, you know, our dollar not buying what it could. So now you have to work harder and you get, you know, and all these things. And then you take on the trust of every government spot. I don't care what it is. This is declined. Media in the toilet. On and on and on.

It's just, it's all starting to culminate. Now, is it 2032? I have no idea. But I remember thinking 2032, why does he pick that date? Why does the computer pick that date? And now I sit there and watch and I'm like, well, it's just playing out. Everything is tightening.

Things that make no sense in Canada. You know, we're going to get off of, you know, take something that's outside of someone being killed. The environment. Everybody wants the environment to be healthy and live in a clean place, yes.

So we're going to get rid of coal and natural gas and oil and all the things that make us live the life we have. It makes zero sense. and that is getting ratcheted up. They aren't ratcheting it down. They're ratching it up in different terms and different words these days under a new prime minister. They're still there.

And so all those things are just pushing us to this inevitability of civil unrest at a proportion. It is not unfathomable because if you look at history, there's different times where civil unrest becomes so prevalent that it's happening everywhere. And I just see that happening more and more. Like we had a prison with the child rapist last week in Niagara where you had a crowd out front of it saying give them to us. I'm like, this is straight out of some Western movie, you know. And yet they'll probably keep them in. Even though any other pedophile rapist in Canada gets out on bail, that one they'll have to keep in because they know if they let him out, he'll get strung up from the street post. Like, I mean, it'll be bad.

and I sitting here, I'm like, but this is what happens when you allow these events to keep on occurring. We're eventually going to get to a point where those things will happen. They're just lucky they're not charging the gates and ripping them down and going into the prison and dragging them out of there. And if it continues on this track, those things are probably inevitable to happen. And the mob wants a mob of people, no matter how righteous they feel they are, once they begin, there is no reasoning with them. There is no stopping. It is the most powerful force on earth.

And a group of people could gather outside of a prison and think, hey, I'm doing the right thing by ridding the world of this pedophile. But once you give yourself over to the mob, maybe they burn a lot more things down, right? A lot more craziness happens. This is why I'm with you on the ultimately talking is what you have to do, because when people don't feel like they get justice, they will turn to anybody.

I probably said this on the show before. One of the most profound things, I lived with an Afghani guy when I was in graduate school. One of the most profound things he told me was Vance, your story in the United States is that the Taliban came in shooting their way in to get control of these villages. That's not the truth. The truth is the Taliban came in

and they spotted all these corrupt judges, and they were watching people not go to jail, and people couldn't get restitution when they would have a conflict with their neighbor. And so what they did was the Taliban came in and started being judges and started extracting really harsh penalties on bad people. It's just that then their circle and their sphere of control just kept growing and growing and growing. So the two opposite polls here are mob justice in order to feel, safe or tyrannical justice of a government that people hand over and like the number of paths out of this scenario i think gets slimmer and slimmer and slimmer that one of those two outcomes it seems

really really likely um and i don't want that man i don't want that yeah i'm i'm re-reading dune right now And you've read Dune, I assume, Vance. I just assume it's, you know, Paul Mouadib is sitting there and he, you know, he can see all the possibilities of like where they go and all the billion, like billions of people who die. And, you know, when you talk about the mob and, you know, like, or just the fact that when conversations aren't allowed to happen or narrative is constructed and they don't allow the other side to talk, you get to points where. people do extreme things. And then the aftermath of that is anyone's, anyone's guess, right? And off it goes. And, you know, when you look at the future, it's like,

I don't, I don't know where to go. All I know is I want to keep talking about it. I want people to, you know, remain peaceful and stand firm in their beliefs with nonviolence, right? And continue to discuss. but I see a future, sorry, I just see a future where those things are becoming less and less possible because of actions of people that are forcing some very serious conversations to be had and wrestled with. You know, when you think about Dune, what's interesting is when you get into the second book and then the third book,

it is really about how power is absolutely corrupting that whoever gets, gets it, whether they started off as the chosen one or not, once they get it, it's just too strong of a temptation to use that power to enhance your own self-interest, which you can talk yourself into. This is for my family. This is for my children. This is for my faith. This is for my whatever. And so it's a great book to be reading right now because one thing that that grapples with very deeply in that book is the how to exert power. And to your point, I was just reading the statistic this morning about how what percentage of people would agree to the phrase, political violence is never the right answer. And the boomers, it's something like

79% and then it grows lower and lower, like until you get all the way down to Gen Z. And only 57% of people believe that violence is never the answer. And I think that this is probably an indication of how far are you away from? Actual total all-out war. And the more you are further away from that, the more it's difficult for you to imagine what war will be like. Like in that book, All Quiet on the Western Front, right? There are all these students that their teachers get really excited about going off to school or going off to war and how heroic this could be.

So they rile up these kids and the kids go to war thinking they're going to just be so helpful and they're just mowed down. They're completely, their lives are completely meaningless. And the guy that is the main character in the book comes back and realizes that the teacher that was promoting this war had never been to war, was not involved in it at all, had no idea what he was sending people off to. And I think that that's the same thing now, where the further generation is away from, let's say, World War II or Vietnam, the more likely they are to be like, yeah, you know, the war is just something we do in Afghanistan. We send some people over there.

We win and we come back because they don't have any real perception of it. I don't even have a real perception of it. Yeah, I don't have a, I've interviewed lots of military guys, but I have no. And I don't want to, you know, like I don't, I don't want to. to have a complete grasp on it other than I don't want more, right? Like I just, I just sending off our, our kids, you know, to go fight. When I just look at our government, I don't know, that's a tough. We were talking about courage before. And I say this with humility. I do not think that the answer that I'm about to give is going to be the end-all be-all. There's many, many more things to be

done. But I believe that one courageous action everyone could take that would put you in a better position is to understand Bitcoin. And the reason that I think this is the reason nihilism is occurring is because the government is endlessly stripping out the value of your time and your work. and that Bitcoin is a way to be able to store your life energy, the work you've done, the time you've put into it, the time you spend away from your kids in order to protect their future is deeply important, and Bitcoin is a way to do that. And the thing that requires courage is it is really, really hard

to take the first few steps towards Bitcoin if you don't have somebody holding your hand. But once you've done it, once you have said, hey, I'm going to store my life energy in Bitcoin. I'm going to try this buying $50 worth and getting it to a wallet. Once you've done that, you now will be filled with knowledge and wisdom and experience. And that will make you stronger. And then following down this path will continue to increase the amount that you are able to save for your family so that you have the time to do what needs to be done in whatever future is coming.

Yeah. You think if everybody, let's play this out. Let's say tomorrow you could have 70% of Americans all start putting money into Bitcoin. How does that change the trajectory of the United States? It depends how they put their money into Bitcoin. If they do the easy thing, which is they go out and buy a Bitcoin ETF and it sits at their Charles Schwab or their Edward Jones account. or whatever, then nothing changes because you don't actually own your Bitcoin then. Then you have to go to Charles Schwab or Edward Jones and say, excuse me, please, could I get this? And I'm not too worried about the taxes. And I want to make sure that I get this, you know, sent to my bank account. Whenever you get a chance, I know you don't work on the weekends or after 4 o'clock or on any of these holidays.

So you're still in that cooperative system. if you actually go out and buy the real Bitcoin yourself and you take possession of that Bitcoin, you now have a control of money that no one can just take from you. Now, somebody's going to be like, well, they could show up at your house with a gun and tell you to give it to you. Yes, you're right. But at least what they can't do is say, I'm not allowed to send value from me to Sean. There's nobody that gets in between us when I want to do that. There's nobody that can come along and say, you know what?

I know there was 21 million Bitcoin, but I'm going to add another 100 million Bitcoin and give some to myself. Nobody can do that. And you now have possession of this asset that gives you power that other people cannot easily take away from you. So if 70% of Americans decided to do that tomorrow, first of all, the price would be completely insane. Second of all, Bitcoin is hard. and I don't actually think 70% of Americans are intellectually capable of holding Bitcoin. I'm speaking to the people that are intellectually capable. They're curious.

They're able to work things out. They're able to figure things out. Even though they may not be a computer person, they're a mechanic. They're a carpenter. If you have logic skills to be able to get yourself through something, you can get through Bitcoin. And then I don't know if everybody needs to get on Bitcoin, but you, the builder, will have a way to save your wealth and your energy so that that way when things get hard you don't have to go to um the banks

or the investment houses and say i'm being really good i didn't say anything i wasn't supposed to say i didn't make anybody mad at me can you please give me my money now what i hear is bitcoin allows you to keep talking right right yeah man i like that yeah that's right i like that that's right bitcoin allows you to keep talking it's allowed me to keep talking because once again you know, I just I go back to the the dark days of COVID and for a lot of people what I was doing here had meaning

and their meeting Sean through to me through their texts and you go in Canada, do we get through COVID without things like the Sean Newman podcast being that? Yes, we do. Does it go on a different you know course? I have no idea does somebody else pop up probably

as I keep finding out there was hundreds if not thousands of people across Canada doing a similar thing to me I keep running into them, you know, and I'm just like, oh, how is it possible? We were so siloed. You didn't know you were there. And you go, you look at the March to 2032 in my mind because I keep having Martin on, and he keeps talking about it.

And it just seems like everything's starting to trend that way. And you go, okay, so Bitcoin, how does it change the future if there was mass adoption? The conversation continues. And in order to work ourselves out of what quagmire, we are certainly in right now, the conversation needs to continue. Yeah, and people need to have the power that is granted to themselves, right? Right now, so much of, I mean, our entire financial system. And Canadians found this out the hard way. I'm in a way that Americans did not because you watched this trucker rally where they just shut people off.

They just said, you just no longer get access to your bank accounts. you know we were talking about i mentioned nick fwentes earlier he's a controversial figure in the united states but no matter who you are you should say it should not be allowed to just shut his bank accounts off because he said words people didn't like just like somebody getting shot shouldn't happen for people not saying what they didn't like so for me with bitcoin it is one way to get back that deeply important sovereignty so that nobody else gets to be like you went too far we're just going to push you out of here. Well, and in fairness, Vance, I would think at this point, if you're honest with yourself,

chances are at some point you are going to go too far because you have a brain and you're thinking and you're going like, just draw your line, wherever that is, folks, you just draw it there. Okay, there it is. Okay. There's my line. And they're going to push on that faster than you think, which means eventually you're going to say and do things or try things that are going to get pushed on. and the thing that they are doing.

Because here in Canada, it was lawyer of Chippeke, tried buying Bitcoin through her Royal Bank of Canada, got it out her account, then told her her business was too risky, so she had to transfer all of her money out of Royal Bank of Canada, because boom, done. This guy right here,

I've tried buying Bitcoin through the ATB, and I don't like to crap on the ATB, except they shut down my entire account for her, like this small amount of money. I'm like, that thing makes sense. Even if I am getting fleeced, it's me the one getting fleeced. And now you've talked to me and I've talked to your manager and on and on a coast. So eventually we're all going to come to a point if you have a head on your shoulders

and you're looking at society right now where your line will be crossed and you'll have to say and do things. And the way that they're going to go after you, it seems like it's becoming pretty standard operation here in Canada. They're going to go after your job. They're going to go after your money supply. they're going to attack you You're making it so you can't travel Can't fly on a plane Can't cross the border

They're going to attack your character Right the character assassination is real You're going to come after who you are as a person And you're going to have to have things that Can allow you to stand firm Right Now I I don't know if we've talked about this

But you know You brought up the Genesis the Garden of Eden. I found the Bible. I found faith. That has been, you know, I was just reading it this morning.

Build your house on the rock. Build your house on something that cannot be washed away. And when you talk about Bitcoin, you're talking about something that, you know, government cannot pull away from you. And those ideas have a ton of meaning.

I think that this is why, I've been thinking a lot about, like, what is the action you can take? Because it feels like everyone should, to take an action. And I was actually thinking to myself about courage, like, what would courage look like for me? Because courage is going to be different for every other person, for every person, whatever your situation is, whatever you're risking, whatever is difficult for you, whatever opportunity you see. And I know, because I've now walked, I don't know, 150 people

through buying Bitcoin, that it takes courage to do it because it feels like you've heard these things. People say, you could get your bank account shut down. Oh, you could lose it all if you lose these keys. Oh, it could be a scam. So it takes courage to walk past all the reasons people have given you not to do this and to do it to be like, I am going to try and have just a little piece of sovereignty, a little piece of being able to get away in the same way that we would all love to have a little piece of property that we could run away to if things get crazy in the cities. This is a little way a little hideout that you have with your money for when they decide that they don't like what you're doing with your money or who you've supported with your money or when your money goes you

know goes from you know a dozen eggs cost two bucks to a dozen eggs cost 50 bucks right you'll i'm watching the price of bitcoin i'm like man like what is what is the cap for bitcoin it seems that there will never be a cap on bitcoin because of the finite supply And the fact that it's so, it feels like, I could be wrong on this, but it just looks like it's uncontrollable or you could do the opposite. It is controllable in a very structured way that you can understand. And that way, you know what is that like over the next five, ten years, what's it going to do? It has no choice. There's no choice but to go up.

I could be wrong on that. You tell me different. I mean, I believe that it's the scarcest asset in the world. and everyone that encounters it. I have never met a person that went through and successfully bought a Bitcoin or Bitcoin. You don't have to buy a whole one, right? You just buy little pieces of it and move it to a wallet that hasn't become a Bitcoiner. That hasn't been like, oh, my.

Like you just, you cross a certain thing, a certain, let's say the Rubicon. And now you realize, oh, one, I can understand this. This isn't scary. And two, this isn't going away. And I understand how hard it is. And that hardness is something that we don't have in our regular lives because almost everything we have is just cheap throwaway garbage or we have to hand it off to somebody else to let us know when we're allowed to use it, when we have permission to use it. And this will be one of those things that you hold it in your hand and you're like, I own this. This is mine. And there's something tangibly different about that because we almost own nothing else in our lives. You know, when I was prepping for this, I was thinking about my brain went to the most significant.

Now, I didn't put in, I maybe should have given it better parameters, but I was using AI. I gave it most significant cultural societal events in North America over the course of since 2000, right? So you got like 9-11 in there. You got 2008, the financial crisis. But you got other things like gay marriage coming in as like a legal rights. You got compelled speech in Canada on she, hey, they, her, you know, you get the point. You got Freedom Convoy. You got Trump.

On and on. One of the things that was in there was Facebook, YouTube, Apple, right? Early 2000s or, you know, I guess 2004 to 2007, I think it is. And not fully understanding, like, sitting here. And now you can see the impact that has had on. society. It is insane. It is unbelievably insane. One of the things it did not put in there, and as you talk, I'm like, I wonder how many years we'll look back and I could do the same thought process. Give me the biggest events, and one of them wasn't Bitcoin. And you wonder if in 10

years, 20 years, take your pick, if Bitcoin isn't one of those catalysts that push us into a different future that isn't being controlled by government sciop narratives on and on and on because one of that one of the lines that uh i really really enjoyed is you know like i'm taught on this side to question pretty much everything right like let's ask some questions let's get to the bottom of things and it said we've been put in echo chambers where we question everything but agree on nothing and now you wonder if in 10 years time, fans, we aren't sitting here. Hopefully, smiling, some brighter days ahead. Because certainly, you know, as we talk about this,

I know you have a lot of great things going on in your life. And I assume you know that on this side it is the same. But in this conversation, talking about some of the hardships that society is under, you wonder if in 10 years things aren't brighter. and one of the catalyst we could look at would be Bitcoin. I mean, to me, the future, once I understood Bitcoin, did become brighter. I mean, like, it's nothing like when you have children, right? Like, there is no cure for nihilism, for self-introspection.

You know, I was one of those people that was constantly working on myself before I had children. And then all of a sudden, I didn't have time to work on myself. Who I was is got to be good enough because I got to, I got the, I got the, these kids, I got to get dressed and moving and going. And then once you're like in the flow, then you're like, all right, am I being the best version of myself for them? And how much can I push them into the future with good things? And so just like children, reoriented my direction, not inward, not towards myself and

what was wrong, but towards the future, Bitcoin had this same impact where I wasn't nihilistic about the saving of my money. Now I know no matter how little it is, if my wife and I can save this week, this month, this year, and we can put a little bit more away, that's just a little bit more energy that we're saving away for the future. And so it doesn't have to be in these giant leaps, but it isn't like, you know, who teaches their kid to go put their money in a savings account anymore. Nobody does that. If you do that, it's foolish because your child's savings account is going to be worth less next year than it is this year. And so for the first time in my lifetime, we've been able to save money, save the work that we're doing. And it's hopeful. It's hopeful to me that I can pass my children down something that right now seems very risky.

But in the distant future, it won't be risky. It'll be as stable as anything in the world because it's already gone through this hyper stage where people were adopting it. And that stability will be a wonderful thing. 10 years? I don't know. I think it might be a little longer than 10 years, but it's going to happen. You'd asked a question in text about what does Charlie Kirk look like in five years? Or how is he remembered? Your thoughts on that? Yeah, I think like Martin Luther King or JFK, I think it will be like a scandalizing of the nation and that the retelling of it will be about how this reshaped the psyche.

of the Western world and that it was a turning point for what? I'm not sure. It's just like, you know, the telling of any history, things seem like, oh, this action should obviously cause this reaction or this, you know, consequence, but it's just like actually in Dune where even the slightest change in the initial conditions can wildly change the outcome. So I don't really know, you know, how the public will remember him, but I would assume in five years, 10 years, 50 years, we will point at this moment and say that it was the shattering of a generation's minds and the way that they, their psyches really. Yeah, I think that's, I don't know if I could say it better, right? I think of Martin Luther as well. you know like the sun did come up the next day and society did march on it just marched on with a giant scar and that will be remembered for years to come and one of the lines uh that i like from

martin luther uh king is our lives begin to end the day we become silent about the things that matter and i assume there is going to be lines pulled from charlie kirk and i mean the guy has, you literally can go watch thousands of hours of him speaking. And I have yet to find one that's like really dull, you know, or you're like, no, this is engaging. No, he was an engaging human being who had his house in order and was trying to discuss that with other people and specifically people that hated his guts. And when you have those two things come together, it is very interesting television. Like, I mean, it is very interesting to sit there.

and go down a rabbit hole. So I would echo your thoughts. Anything left before I let you out of here. I think that all of us in the next few weeks, few months, are going to be put into positions where you have to make a decision. What is the courageous, wise act? And I think it's really good to think about that ahead of time

and to really come to terms with what the future looks like if you don't stand up for what you believe in. But then at the same time, am I sure that I am not being herded into a direction, that I'm not having my energy, my rage, my sadness, my fear, hurted into getting to do the work of evil, which is the work of a mob, where you're not really responsible for what you're doing. And those two parallels are going to cause all of us to have feelings of angst and how should I handle this. But I believe there's one truth. And you and your God have to have that conversation about what you ought to do here and make the right choice because it'll live with you forever.

Fans appreciate you coming on and doing this. It's a never a dull moment when you come on. And certainly this is one of those moments. probably similar to 9-11, you know, I was young back then. But I remember that day like it was yesterday. I understood the significance as a high school kid and understanding how the adults around me acted specifically on what had happened and not, and then not understanding like the world has changed. It will be forever changed and we're going to see a new version here right away. I think with Charlie Kirk for a lot of people, they watched that and understood

the world has changed. We can't fully understand what are going to be all the ripples of that event, but we know for sure the world has changed, and we're going to be paying attention here as the days go on. And appreciate you coming on and discussing with me. I know it's a difficult topic, but at the same time it needs to be talked about, and I appreciate your thoughts in the way your brain specifically thinks on these things.

well thanks for having me Sean and yeah thanks for continuing to do your work i think as i've said it many times before is incredibly important so i'll keep talking i hope you do too