Shaun Newman Podcast - #917 - Tanner Hnidey

Episode Date: September 22, 2025

Tanner is an economist, freelance speaker, social critic and author of his new book “Antichrist 2030”. We discuss his new book, Jimmy Kimmel and the Antichrist. To watch the Full Cornerstone Forum: https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcastGet your voice heard: Text Shaun 587-217-8500Silver Gold Bull Links:Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/Email: [e-mail] Grahame: [phone]Bow Valley Credit UnionBitcoin: www.bowvalleycu.com/en/personal/investing-wealth/bitcoin-gatewayEmail: [e-mail] Use the code “SNP” on all ordersProphet River Links:Website: store.prophetriver.com/Email: [e-mail] Money SummitWebsite: ExpatMoneySummit.com

This is Viva Fry. I'm Dr. Peter McCullough. This is Tom Lomago. This is Chuck Pradnik. This is Alex Krenner. Hey, this is Brad Wall. This is J.P. Sears. Hi, this is Frank Peretti.

This is Tammy Peterson. This is Danielle Smith. This is James Lindsay. Hey, this is Brett Kessel, and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks. Happy Monday. How's everybody doing today? Before I get in everything, just wanted to say a shout out to all the people who came up to me and we Unify.

It was cool to meet a bunch of you. and there was a ton of people that have been podcast guests and got to run in those folks as well at Wii Unify Jeff Evely and Bruce Party and you know I went up for supper with Wyatt Claypool and you know the list as they say goes on and on and on I got to be on a panel with Tanner and Day in Maxime Bernier Matt Alexander was there

so that that was a lot of fun met some new people as well Marty up north you know Yack stack the list goes on and on. Clyde Do Something was hosting, and, you know, there was a lot of people from this podcast world, at least, that were there. And to any of the listeners who came up and said hello, really appreciate it, love getting to meet all you guys,

and, you know, I don't know, it was just, that was a lot of fun to run into a bunch of you. Now, with the number of ounces of silver needed to buy an ounce of gold now near 30-year high, silver is now a bargain price when it compared to gold. We talked a little bit of silver. bit about this at Weenify on the first panel I was on with Peter and now forgive me. I can't remember his last name, but regardless, he's going to be coming on the podcast here in the near

future. So, you know, Peter, forgive me and for everybody else going, who's Peter? Anyways, financial guy. He's going to be coming on. We were talking about hard assets. And, well, when it comes to hard assets, silver gold bowl has a wide variety of best value silver for every budget, simply text or email Graham for details, whether you're a season. investor, new to precious metals. He'll work with you to answer all your questions and recommend the best products to meet your investing goals. Go to silvergoldbull.ca.org.com and make sure on any

purchases, just to reference the Sean Newman podcast. Bow Valley Credit Union, there was a guy that was there, his team as well. Brett Olin was on stage. Got to run into Brett a couple times. And when it comes to buying and selling Bitcoin, it has never been easier. Yeah, it's going through a bank. Hard to believe that when most banks want to shut you down for doing such a thing.

While Bow Valley Credit Union has developed the first in Canada Bitcoin Gateway, with just a few clicks you can buy Bitcoin directly from your Bow Valley Credit Union account. Your Bitcoin Gateway account is linked to your traditional BVCU bank account, enabling seamless on-ramps and off-ramps between Fiat and Bitcoin. Little tech expertise or knowledge of blockchain required, visit Bow ValleyCU.com for more information. Profit River. Well, when it comes to firearms,

another man I ran into, a former Cornerstone speaker, this year's Cornerstone Speaker, this year's Cornerstone Forum speaker, oh, spit it out here, was Rod Gil Tacky. He was on stage as well. We got talking about a few different things, firearms related. And when you're looking for firearms, why not head to Profit River? Check out their website or stop in in person, make a phone call. They serve all of Canada. A reminder on any purchase to use the coupon code SMP gets you put in for monthly draws if you want to reach out to them directly Joel is the primary contact

it's all down on the show notes but it's SNP at profitriver.com of course you could just go to profit river.com they are the major retailer of firearms optics and accessories and they serve all of Canada Windsor Plywood Carly Cawson and the team here in Lloyd Minster

when it comes to wood while they built the podcast studio a podcast studio table that is and the wood for the new podcast studio table. I was just looking at it, is all coming through Windsor as well. So when you're looking for character wood, whether we're talking mantles, decks, windows, doors, sheds, podcast studio tables, reach out to the team here in Lloyd Minster, tell them I sent you. Cornerstone Forum is Forum, 26. We're announcing the dates. March 28th is going to be the date. It is going

to be in Calgary, Alberta. We have two venues that were just solidifying which one we're going with. We're crunching numbers, all that good stuff. So you can rest assured that is going to be March 28th. And if you put that into your calendar, at least then you have it marked off so you know when to, well, when it's coming, right? So it is going to be in Calgary.

I had a couple people ask me this weekend. You mentioned it's going to be on the 28th. Where is it going to be? It is going to be back in Calgary in 2026, March 28th. more details here in the weeks to follow. We're just finalizing, and we've now penciled in. It's going to be in Calgary. It's just one of two places.

So pay attention for those details. Substack, free to subscribe to. You probably noticed that the Weekend Review is a day late, and that is because I've been on the road all weekend, and while I put out a post just saying, hey, we're going to get back to the Substack Week in Review tomorrow. It's going to be a day late. So it comes out today.

So pay attention for that. Of course, it's free to subscribe to you. You can also become a paid member if you love what the SMP does and stands for, and you want to help support what I do. If you're listening or watching on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, Rumble, X, make sure to subscribe, make sure to leave a review, make sure to share with a friend. And, yeah, that's all I got for you today. Happy Monday.

Now, let's get on to that tale of the tape. Today's guest is an economist, freelance speaker, social critic, and author of a new book Antichrist 2030. I'm talking about Tanner Nadey. So buckle up. Here we go. All right, welcome on the Sean Newman podcast. Today I'm joined by Tanner in a day.

Tanner, thanks for answering the call as I always seem to do with you. It's great. You know, what are you doing this afternoon? I feel like, if I'm honest, I feel like, you know, Charlie Kirk when he was doing his show, you know, you think it's this, this, they've got all these things worked out and all these amazing guess. I still think there's at times, they're like, hey, Erica, in their case, you want to hop on and do it just a, I just, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or, you know, Rogan's got his group of comedians and everybody, you know, I'm sure at times, like, you just want to hop on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

yeah, yeah, I'll come on. And it's funny because you, we live so close. Yeah. It's like, hey, what are you doing this afternoon? It's great. I don't know, what do you want to do? I'm like, when I come to the studio and get in some trouble and, you know, and here you are. Absolutely. So what we were talking about before we got going is you're sitting in one of the chairs that's going to be in the new studio. And then we got, you know, so A, what do you think of the new chair? Oh, I think it's so comfortable. I was telling you, I'm like, this is a dream.

You feel professional, feel like, you know, you're really being interviewed by someone who's high up there in the podcasting world, which it sounds like it's true. So I'm impressed. You could sit in this thing for hours. You could fall asleep in this thing if you wanted to. Yeah, I don't know. Well, I tell you what. As time goes on, I'm like slowly more professional. I'm working, we're getting closer to a thousand episodes, right?

Yeah, yeah, totally. So I've been having lots of people text me about that. And I think what I'm going to do, I don't think I'm spoiling anything, I think what I'm going to do is Jericho, who does the video for the Cornerstone Forum. Yeah. I'm going to get them to, I think I'm going to storyboard it out for him and then let him go to work and kind of like, I don't know who the thousands guest is, you know, like if I had my pick, Joe Rogan would be sitting in a chair, right?

I mean, let's be honest. If I wanted, if I could have anyone, probably the guy that set me down this path. And close to him would be Jordan Peterson because Jordan Peterson was the reason why I thought I could do this said path and started to clean things up and everything else. Yeah. Or is that possible?

Well, as we both can admit, anything through the big guy upstairs is possible. So it's possible. But, you know, somebody asked, would your wife come on for the thousand episodes? And I was like, that is not possible. Mel does not want to sit in that chair. So I'm like, well, you know, like my hope is that the thousandth is somebody spectacular,

that everybody can be like, wow, that's a cool get. But in the meantime, I'm like, I'm working through my brain of almost a thousand episodes of where I've gone and meandered and the journey that I've been on, let alone the audience. And so I'm working on getting Jericho to do a, video for it that kind of shows the growth of the podcast. The new studio is obviously going to be a part of that by then. A thousandth, if you time it out, it's probably early February sometime in there. Sweet. So it's coming faster and I think, but it's still a little ways away. And then, you know, when you get talking about the new studio, one of the things I wanted to do was make it

as professional, but like inviting as humanly possible. And so when I started looking at chairs, I enlisted my wife. I'm like, okay, this is what I'm thinking. But I don't know where to find it. I don't know where to, and so, of course, all women, I feel like all wives, just no, no, no, no, you go here. And then we started looking at gold-ish chairs. And we settled on that one. And my brother's like, it's kind of like Colonel Mustard.

I'm like, well, the logo is pretty much Colonel Mustard. So I'm glad you like it. You're the first guy to sit in. No way. Yes. Oh, shoot. I put it in last night. I feel particularly regal to cross my legs and so on.

I was going to text you last. night and be like hey you want to come sit in the gold chair for the first time and I'm like no no no no no and then I thought about putting two back to back so I could sit one I'm like no not yet not yet not yet that's gonna come so you're gonna wait for the new studio to do that yeah yeah yeah yeah the guest gets the gold chair I I think it looks pretty sharp if I'm being honest no it looks sharp are you gets great but then you're asking so the reason I brought it in here folks is everybody knows the table that windsor plywood built right it's been in here it's been a feature

of this studio. It was first built in 20. It had been 2020 when I first got it, I want to say. Because it was in the old studio before we moved it here. We had to haul it up the stairs and let me tell you that was an effort. And I wanted to see the height. So we've been measuring out height because I got a custom table being built. Showed it to Josh Clare home.

If you're looking for a guy who is detail-orientated with wood, I can't speak highly enough with him. And what we're doing is we're building a round table. Since I've had this table in here, all I've wanted is a round table. And I'm sure it's going to cause me a problem. Sure. I can already feel someone like, I don't know how I'm going to do that. I don't know what I...

But I'm willing... I've just... When I have four people in, and you've been in with four people... Oh, yeah. I want it to be like a circle where you don't have to... It's not like you've got to turn your entire body and everything else. Totally. And so we have a round table being built,

and the chairs need to come in first so we can figure out how high it needed to be. Like, I'm like, I couldn't have predicted all these little problems. Yeah, sure. If you hadn't gone down the road of building something. Totally. The intricacies. Yeah. So you're measuring the height of the table relative to the height of the chair.

Correct. Look at you go. Yeah, I know. How exciting. You kidding. That's great. So what about the top? What's the wood top?

Like, what's, or is that a secret? No, it's walnut. So, so, um, uh, substack, paid people, paid members of substack, shut out to all of you have, um, have seen the glimpse of the new studio. I've done a walk through. Shea opened the door and, you know, and kind of walk through everything and as close to where it is now today. And the walls are all walnut. And so Josh talked me into it because my initial idea, and a lot of people know this was to get like a tree top out of BC.

And I just, it was a lot of money and time and a bunch of hurdles that I was just like, oh, man. He's like, why don't you just match it? And I'm like, well, what do you mean? He's like, well, I'll build it for you. I'm like, you're going to build me a table. And I'm like, this is what I want. So I'll build whatever you want. So we're going to see.

I've seen a picture of it in its very rough form, not cut yet. Yep. But yeah, when we go into the new studio, we're going to have four of those chairs. We're going to have a round table. Sweet. You know, we're going to clean up that. Nobody can see what I'm pointing at. But like, I've tried so hard in the studio to put all the cords away.

Yeah, it's hard. And every time I put all the cords away, then something happens. Sean has to deconstruct. I don't know, driving to Calgary. You know, we're recording this before either of us are in Calgary for the Wii Uniform conference. And then I have to deconstruct stuff. And one of the things I really hope I can achieve with the new studio

is I never have to deconstruct any of it. It just sits there. Yeah. And everything just stays. All the cords are up. You walk in, you kick your shoes off. Clean. You sit down.

It's clean. And it is just, well, I don't know. I think it's going to be probably the nicest studio in Western Canada. but you know it depends what you like too right if you like a i've been in western standards yeah okay it's a nice studio yeah right it feels very much like a broadcast studio like you're you're sure at a newsroom yeah this is not going to be that i i think it's going to resemble more like sean ryan yeah if you've watched i know people on here have watched sean ryan's how he sits yeah but it's going to have a feel maybe of joe rogan it's kind of a mesh between the two yeah i did a lot

I did a lot of studying on what I wanted out of the studio before I went in, and we'll see if I got it right or wrong, you know? Yeah, totally. Oh, I think, like, even the space has so much to do with how the guests talk. Like, you know, I've been in newsrooms before, too, and it always feels so much more formal. And I think it, you conduct yourself differently in those cases, where if you go to, even this studio, to be honest, is comfortable. It's cozy. And I think you become, you speak much more relaxed when the atmosphere around you reflects that. You know what I mean? So I think a warm wood, it's cozy, it's classy, you know, it's Western, but not, it's, but it's Western, but also, you know, elegant in a sense. Well, the, the, I agree with you. And in this studio in particular, Chuck Prodnick says it best every time it comes in and he goes, you've done something again. And I'm like, yeah, I'm, I, you know, I've been nesting in here for four years. Some things just start to annoy me and I just, you know, or weighed the guy who owns the bill, they walk in him in and be like, what do you do it? I'm like, I'm annoyed Wade.

I'm trying to find ways to make it just a little better. Yeah, totally. So you just keep adding. Yeah. And one of the things, I've drawn on a lot of things for this new studio. Yeah. One of them being, you know, in here, I've done pretty much all the work myself. And that's been awesome.

Totally. Not doing the work yourself. I just lack the ability to make things look almost refined. You know, I don't have that detail already to the scale. Give me a slide camera. I'll go knock out a wall for you. Don't ask me to, you know, finish it off. Yeah, sure.

So when I look at it, we kept this old building that looks rustic. Yeah. But after that, it's all like it's Al Capone hiding out in Moostra. Cool. So, like, you walk in, and I hope that's, you know, part of the feeling is like, holy crap, this is something. Cool. Yeah.

So I've had a few different people out, and some of their reactions have been, Cool, to be honest. Yeah, honestly. And I think it's a nice, it's a stark contrast to that brutalist, modern, banal, you know, square vibe that so many big city builders are pursuing. You know, I think architecture is boring nowadays. So to hear something like this, you know, this unique twist on a podcast studio, I think it's exciting. I'm very excited to see it. Well, we're going to have, there will be several roundtables in there.

When we get going, somebody was asking me with the, with the first podcast I'm doing there. And I've already made it pretty clear to a lot of people. It's going to be a blue collar roundtable. There's been a lot of wonderful men that have helped. You know, Blaine and Joey from Guardian plumbing and heating. Caleb Taves, Renegade Acres, George Coles from Harris Electric. Josh Clare home.

I'm missing people. Jordan Scott from Dan Ray, right? Like, there's just been, and that's just, like, that's just a small list. Like, it's been really cool to, to, to do a project with, I don't know, some cool men. Yeah. So that's going to be the first one. But after that, like, I've got a series of people, you know,

Layton Gray, we're talking. Yeah. I hadn't talked to, you've been talking to Layton Gray lately? I haven't talked to Leighton in a while. No, I haven't. And honestly, I hadn't either. And he just finished a book. You know, I got yours sitting right here.

Shout out to Layton Gray, but, I mean, obviously, here, I'll put it up on the screen. Tanner's got a new book, right? Antichrist 2030 exposing the world's last dictator. And so if you're wanting to grab a copy of that, I mean, obviously you could reach out to Tanner, me and I could point you in the direction. But online, I assume, somewhere. Online.

If you want something to have a fun family discussion, you know, something to censor. It's fun family discussion at Christmas or Thanksgiving. That's the book for you. Where can they get it from? Well, right now it's on Amazon. It's also at all the events that I speak at, I bring them. And I'm working on getting it on my website.

but if I was more technologically inclined, it'd be easier to do. We'll get there soon. Yeah, put on the site. Okay, so before I go any further, I'm not going to forget this, okay? Oh, sweet. Yeah, yeah. I love these things. So Tanner's slowly getting rich off me, I feel, you know?

Or maybe I'm slowly getting rich off Tanner. No, one of the two. As anyone who's going to sit in the gold chair moving forward, you know, a silver one-ounce coin from silver gold. old bull is is it is the token of appreciation for sitting and and discussing with me today. It's a sweet token. I keep all of these in a very secret box, you know,

as I'm building up, I'm building up capital. Building up your stack. That's right, that unlike Fiat money won't become most likely, you know, less valuable over time. So I, yep.

It's not most likely. It is for sure. Our money is going down the toilet. Oh, that's true. It's gone. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And it's been gone for a while. too. Absolutely. I don't need to tell a guy who talks about the economy. No. That's yeah,

that's and the kicker is you don't need to talk you don't need to tell well you shouldn't need to tell anybody that. Anyone who has a bank account and who goes to the grocery store knows that. Inflation's unbelievable. It still is. I still don't think they're I still don't think they are you know they're not producing the just how damaging the recession in Canada is yet. Yeah. Yeah. Still trying to hide it. Yeah. Like it's you know it's bad but they're trying to still smooth things over and say it's not that bad but it is yeah but it is and it's only getting it worse yeah as harsh as that truth sounds i don't think you're wrong when you consider who's in power right now when you consider you know their agenda when you look at their economic and financial

goals it doesn't it's not going to get better no not as it stands now you were telling me uh right when we were before we clicked record you were talking about a boat, and I forget the author who talked about writing a book. Oh, yeah, Churchill. Churchill. Churchill, yeah, Churchill. And he was talking about what it's like to write a book, because of course, you know, he's this prolific author along with his numerous accolades as a statesman. Really, he was an author. That was his passion and his love. And, of course, he wrote books that were hundreds of thousands of words long, you know, not just tens of thousands, these massive books. His entire series on World War II, of course, is unbelievable. It's this big stack of books that are heavily written and detailed and precise.

Anyway, he's talking about how, you know, when you write a book, it starts as a sort of love affair, you know, a bit of a flirtation, then it turns into a mistress, and then it turns into basically a slave master, a monster. By the time the book is over is finished when you've completed it, writing it, you are so sick and tired of it. You just want to shove it out into the world. And, you know, I don't write books nearly as large as Churchill's, but I think he's right. Yeah. When you get to the last few chapters, even the last section, you are ready to be finished with that book. Is that the way you look at your newest book? It sure is. Yeah, it sure was writing.

It was the same thing. How long did it take you? That one took me maybe just under a year-ish, yeah, to write. So Churchill wrote 2,000 words a day, which is incredible. Did he write 2,000 words a day, or did he dictate the 2,000 words a day? Well, you know, he started writing, but then he was dictating. Yeah. But I don't, yeah.

If I recall, I remember him sitting in a bathtub dictating to somebody, yes? And he would dictate speeches. Yeah. He would, which I don't, that's a genius even of itself, because, you know, most authors will write and then they'll rewrite and then they'll rewrite and then they'll rewrite and then they'll rewrite and then they'll rewrite and so on. Whereas Churchill would just stand up and dictate. Yeah. And he could be a, he could be a real monster to his secretaries. When you read the, I'm reading a book on Churchill, a biography.

Two of them, actually. One is called No More Champagne, which talks about Churchill's Spanish. ending habits, which were prodigious and extravagant. And the second book is just, that's not the last lion. It's the one that, it's Churchill's wilderness years, you know, in the 1930s kind of thing. And in both of the books, mostly in his actual biography, not the financial one. They talk about how Churchill could be very harsh to those who worked for him. Just I think because, well, one, you know, he's fallen, but two, as, you know, as a man, like we all are,

but two because he had that he had that genius which his brain was working at a clip much faster than even the most brilliant of men were working at so yeah he would dictate yeah just just unbelievable you said something there his wilderness years his years wilderness years yeah that's right so they called him and that's basically 1929-ish 1927ish to about well 1940 you think we'll all go through wilderness years um i think that that that that that that that those who have, yeah, those who have been tasked with a special purpose, go through wilderness, go through wilderness years. Yeah, that's a very good question. You see it all in scripture. So, yeah, like, well, no, okay, so all men have been, according to Ephesians 2,

all men have been tasked, and all women and children and so on, have been tasked with special purposes given to them by God. You know, this is what he says, we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. That's Ephesians 2, what is it, 8 to 10, I think, yeah? So we all have a specific list basically of to-does that God has given us. Now there are some men and women, though, who have been, you know, chosen for distinct tasks here and distinct tasks there. And there are some distinct tasks that require a period of wilderness so that you might succeed when you are called to that specific position. So one of the classic examples, of course, is Joseph.

Joseph is sold into slavery at 17 years old because his brothers hate him. And then he has to work in Potipher's house. We don't really know how long, but, you know, he was a slave there. He works in Potipers' house. And then he goes to jail because he's falsely accused of sexually assaulting, you know, Potipher's wife. And he languishes in jail. Again, we don't know how long, but we know that he doesn't enter Pharaoh's court until he's 30. So, you know, between the ages of 70 and 30, for some period of time, Joseph is in jail.

That's right. Or you look at Moses. Here's a guy who's an actual statesman. He was raised as a statesman. He was a conqueror probably in Pharaoh's palace, right? And he's in that position until he's 40. And then when he's 40, he flees, right, because he's killed a man and Pharaoh's out to hunt him, goes to Midian.

And then he is a shepherd for 40 years. You know, 40 years, not just four months or 12 days, but 40 years. And it's only until that 40 years is complete that God moves him back into. Tapes him on the shoulder and says, yeah, it's time to go back. Yeah. And so, you know, and that's true. for Daniel. It's true for David. It's true for all of those men and women in the Bible who had these very specific tasks to do. So it's not unusual for men in this case to go through periods of wilderness.

And thank heavens that one does. You know, you even read Churchill's life. We think that he was just this grandiose figure his entire political career. He really wasn't. Like, you know, he had a lot of a lot of high positions. Yeah. You know, he was he was, he was, uh, he was, uh, Chancellor of the Exchequer and, you know, in the cabinet here and there and so on. But on the whole, he was sort of a nomad, kind of a political nomad. And then it wasn't until 1940 that he was elevated to that level of greatness. And then, you know, enjoyed the next five years as the Prime Minister of Britain. And enjoyed his wrong word.

But anyways, and then maintain that position until. Well, that's what he's remembered for. That's what he's remembered for. Yeah, five years of his life or maybe even, you know, it might even be less. Right. So it's, yeah, the wilderness years aren't, they're a good thing as hard as they are. So what's the purpose of them then? What do you think?

You know, I think all men in the sense go through wilderness. But why? What's the point? Prepare them. Yeah, it must be. And, you know, I think one of the things that I've had to learn over the last few years and have been glad to be able to learn and to continue to learn is I can't remember if we've talked about it on your show before. But it's the principle of enjoying the day which is before you and not, worrying about tomorrow or yesterday.

I think that has been the most, one of the most freeing truths of scripture that I've been able to apply in my life, which is just enjoy what's before you today. That's it. So, you know, Moses is a shepherd. And can you imagine being elevated as a statesman like that and then having to descend to the position of a guy who has to sit outside in the cold and the bugs and, you know, the air and so on, hurting these sheep that smell

and who knows where, you know, in the middle of nowhere. You say that, but we were talking this morning, so I had a group of guys out, all business guys who run businesses, out to basically do manual labor. Yeah. Cut down some trees, clean up a yard,

sweat your butt off because it was like plus 30 that day. And one of the things that was said is sometimes it's just nice to get away from the problems of, running something and then constantly having to worry about, you know, is this going right? Is that job coming through? Did we pay that bill? Did we get paid by that person, etc.? And you can, you know, any business owner can probably relate to all the problems. Yeah. They just liked almost shutting their brain off, going and being told what to do. This is precisely the point is that a man descends, you know, to the position of Moses as a shepherd.

And it's there that he learns that those are the people that God elevates. The world likes to look at those who are in the financial. structures and the big skyscrapers and so on. Sure. Look at how they've achieved something for themselves. But when you read the teachings of Jesus, it's the first will be last and the last will be first. He's a carpenter or a stone mason, whatever he is, he's a tradesman.

And it's not to the rich and the famous and the powerful that Christ first preaches the gospel to because it's difficult for the rich man to enter the kingdom of God. You know, it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to do so. it's to the quote unquote lowly individuals those tradesmen those workers those nine to five you know blue blue collar hardworking individuals that christ preaches to those are the ones that almighty elevates and so in that sense that's in a large part i think the preparedness that's needed you know the truth is that great men never think of themselves as great like truly great men never think of themselves as great and they learn that in the wild yeah yeah um

You know, part of your book talks about Yahweh or whether or not the god of old is the god of new. That's a huge debate right now. Is it? It is. It particularly. Man, I'm not in these circles because I'm like, that doesn't make any sense to me. Yeah, it's a debate in the progressive Christian world. It isn't really a debate in the orthodox, you know, old school Christian world.

But it isn't a new. This is just my eyes reading your book. You know what I think of? What do you think? I think of fatherhood. Yeah. And I think of having a young child, and my oldest is only nine. So, you know, I am early days of this, right?

Yeah. But how I've grown in nine years with three children. Yeah. I just, I'm reading here, and I'm like, I don't know if God can be young. I don't, I have, you can, you know, people can laugh at me. But when I'm reading your thing, I'm like, he just sounds like a father. father who has young children. Yeah.

And they're doing really stupid things, which they do. Yeah. And he's upset with them. And he's trying to, nope, this. And then, you know, you have the God of, well, not the God of. It's just, you know, Jesus comes in, right? Yeah, yeah. And it's a different message is kind of the way that people are framing it.

This is what I'm understanding from your writing. That's right. That's right. And I'm like, it just sounds like he's matured and understanding what has to be done. And that at times you can't control everything. and that your children have to make their choices. And that's probably been really hard for him to come to terms with. And I don't know, that could be, I could be speaking blasphemy right now.

I'm like, I don't know, I don't know, like, because, you know, God's omnipotent, or omnipresent, or omniponent. And he should know that from the beginning. But when I read how you wrote it, I'm like, it just sounds like a young father. And he's like trying to guide his children away from the harms. And they keep getting into the harms. getting into the harms. And human beings are cruel to one another. I'm like, it's one of the hardest things I sit and watch. I'm like, man, we are cruel to one another. The cruelty. I don't get it.

I'm like, you know, I'm like, I can't snap my fingers and have a perfect world. And even if I did, what would that look like? And then how would we screw it up? Because we probably would. We most, we did screw it up. We had a perfect world. You know, you're exactly right. This is a good conversation. So you're right. God is a father who is exceptionally patient with mankind. Like you have to think about even your kids, you know, to what level does your patience extend to? You know, I don't have children, but I assume that when I do, I probably won't wait years and years to, you know, discipline them for doing what's wrong. It's like I've heard of a lot of parents who are just at their, at their wit's end. Yes, it comes for us all. Totally. He's screaming at the grocery

store and you just, you just snap, you know. Whereas here you have a literally the creator of the universe who has been exceedingly generous and patient in the Old Testament. With the Canaanites, with the Israelites, with the world itself. Think of how long he gave the world to change its mind or change their mind about him during the days of Noah. But sorry, but in his world that he's created, we think of it as a long time, but he wouldn't. Right. So because Almighty God is timeless. So, of course, he doesn't exist in time, right?

You know, he's outside of time. And so it means in a sense he doesn't mature like you or I mature because maturity implies a passage of time. and it would mean that God changes, but he doesn't. This is why when I say it, I know I'm not right, but that's how it reads. I know it's hard to whatever. What's actually happened is the Old Testament, the Israelites are given a law, the mosaic. There's a bunch of laws, but they're given the mosaic law, you know, the one from Sinai. Don't do this, don't do that, don't do this, don't do that.

Later, Jesus comes, yeah, he comes incarnate. And he goes around preaching, of course, the message of salvation. and he says in Matthew 517, I am the fulfillment of the law of Moses. And so Christ is telling his listeners, his audience that listen, you look at the law of Moses, 613 laws, telling us to the Israelites, of course,

and he says, you can't keep them, and you know you can't keep them. You lie, you cheat, you steal, you know, we do these things too. And he goes, there's the proof. Here's the law. It defines what perfection is. If you keep the law perfectly,

then you're perfect. You haven't kept the law perfectly. therefore you're not perfect. But then he goes, here I am, and I'm the fulfillment of the law of Moses. That law is just a sketch. It's a picture of who I am as God incarnate, as God as a person. And so Christ fulfills that law. He keeps it perfectly because he is the fulfillment of the law,

dies on the cross, is resurrected, and then comes to us saying, here's a new law, basically. We have not basically, it is a new law. This is what Paul tells us in Romans 8. He goes, that mosaic law, in a sense, has been, well, not in a sense, it's been fulfilled. Here is a new law of grace, which allows you and I to live differently than we were able to live before. So it's not so much God maturing as it is a new law has been introduced to the world that you and I as Christians are able to follow. And in doing so, reflect the person of Christ.

It's the law of grace. Yeah. This is once again a poor poor way to probably talk about this, but I'm reading Dune right now. Oh yeah. You've read Dune? I haven't read it, but I've heard it's Tolkien's favorite book.

Really? No, it wasn't. He hated it. Yeah. Okay, I see the way. All right. Well, it's funny. You know, like the Benjazzarits go along spreading prophecy and it kind of pokes at religion throughout its pages. But one of the things, you know, I look at any fictional writing story, this big arching, and you can pull a themes all you want. Oh, yeah. You know, Herbert thought he was writing one thing, and then I go

and read it and I see a completely different thing. Yeah. And one of the things that the main character, Paul, can do, is he can see into the future and he can see all the, the possibilities. Yeah. And I'm like, well, you imagine, which I can't do, but I'm just like, imagine your God. You can sit there and you can see all the possibilities of what has to come. Getting crucified on a cross. After coming down and saying, I'm the one you've been waiting for.

Everyone's like, blasphemy, right? And on, on, on, on, right? And I'm like, well, if you take a step back, why did Abraham have to, you know, not having a fair, but take a, you know, that doesn't make any sense. Doesn't make any sense. But when I read Dune, it's like,

well, look at all the possibilities of the, world of where I'm trying to lead these people and I have to walk a certain line and if I walk this certain line it brings out certain outcomes yeah except he's so powerful I realize that train of thought is probably poor just that I understand he's with beyond time yeah and he doesn't mature and all these things yeah but once again I go back to your book and how it reads I'm like just feels like a father dealing with children he's trying to put things and then he knows that's going to happen. But in order to give him many chances they need to then do this, to then do that, to come to where Jesus comes down and he knows exactly how that's going to go, but he's going to

win the ultimate game against Satan. Yeah. To allow his people to just believe in me. Yes. You've got the gospel. Believe. Believe in me. Amen. So he is, and he's painted this way all the time throughout a scripture, a patient loving father who disciplines when he absolutely has to, but otherwise extends his hand of grace and mercy to those who believe in him. Absolutely. You've got her dead on the mark. I don't know if I got a dead on the mark.

No, that's, if more people would understand, just that's the way that, that's how the scripture reads. Yeah. God is a loving, patient father. Like, you know, they often talk about how he commands, you know, he floods the world, wipes out Nephline. He weren't even fully human. Or he commands, you know, wiping out this or that or the other nation.

You know, people think he just does that randomly. It's like, no. When you read of the atrocities that were being committed in those nations, and for hundreds of years, it makes more sense to see why, or to under, it makes more sense as to why God was so indignant. Like, I, you know, we would be too.

We just, we, we are, we swell up with rage when one thing that's evil happens, let alone when it happens again, look at Charlie Kirk. Look at Charlie Kirk. Totally. That's where I'm trying to, well,

I don't know if I'm bringing the entire conversation there, but there's multiple things at play here as we sit today, you know? So Charlie Kirk, shot last week and we've seen some ugliness in humanity. We've seen some absolute

beautifulness come out as well. Today, as we're sitting here, Trump labeled Antifa, a terrorist organization, right? Like that's, I mean, to even talk about Antifa at the Freedom Convoy,

oh, you guys are all just, you know, like you're, but now for that to come out, you got Jimmy Kimmel being removed and I'm like, I'm kind of curious your thoughts and that because you know when I first see Jimmy Kimmel being removed I'm like holy crap yeah that feels like government going over you know stepping outside its bounds when when I let you know because what is Jimmy Kimmel say in like his one minute monologue he pokes fun at Trump yeah and he says

that the shooter or the rights doing everything they can to say it wasn't a mega shooter yeah right that they didn't shoot one of their own yeah which from all the evidence we can see is a falsity of what he's saying yeah and so then they come after him for that guy get him removed. But I just, I pump the brakes because I'm like, okay, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. If we do this in the future, and maybe people are like, no, you have to do it because he's lying. Yeah. But eventually that will come back on, I don't know, some guy who has a podcast in Lloyd, I'm going to say.

Spreading misinformation. Yeah, well, I mean, it already happens. I already get removed from YouTube for, you know, and certainly there's other people, you know, that are being attacked in the journalist. sense all over the place. Absolutely. As soon as we applaud the government for doing it, isn't this going to get worse? Or am I wrong?

No, so the first lesson I took from even Kimmel's firing or, you know, removal, and all of, to be honest, all of the other journalists and news anchors and so on that have been fired because of their comments over Kirk is that the principle of cancel culture eats itself alive for years, all of these anchors and all of these,

big executives, TV executives, were so ravenous to remove as many people as possible who disagreed with their views. You were removed from YouTube because of what you dare to post on that platform. But that sort of cancel culture, that idea of we're going to destroy you because of what you said flips and it inverts. And you find that whether it takes a year or two years or five years into the future, that same monster is now staring back at you because it doesn't like what you have to say. And this is the story of 1984. This is the brilliance of Orwell's book, right? Because Orwell's like he has characters in his book, of course, who love big, you know, they love Big Brother. It's his name Parsons, I think, right? Parsons. He just loves Big Brother and always does what

Big Brother tells him. But then one day, I'm spoiling the book here, but then one day Parsons' children rat him out because he said something wrong or whatever, was he thought something wrong. And Parsons is sitting there in his isolated room saying, well, it's a good thing I was ratted out, you know, because I might have been exercising wrong thing against Big Brother. So you see that that very system he promoted and adored turned around and it, you know, it betrayed him. And this is true of communism, you know, people, or not people, but you know, you have all those communist agents, pro-communist. And then they found one day that the gun was pointing at them.

And that was the end of it. And so that's what I mean to say with this council culture. look at Kimmel, look at the anchors, they loved it. Now they don't, because the narrative has changed. Secondly, look at all that government's doing. Yeah, I agree. If you give government that much power, it's very dangerous. And even that was part of the point in writing Antichrist was,

I know a lot of people are excited, you know, about Jimmy Kimmel being removed and so on, and understandably so, you know, or whoever else being removed, yeah, totally understand it. But at the same time, and we're being not pessimistic, but we're being perhaps overly cautious. We know that if we give government the absolute power to remove whom they wish, whenever they wish, like you said, there is no doubt in the future. Eventually that it will come for us. Absolutely. Right. So this is where you have to actually go to Romans, to be honest, particularly Romans 13.

And Paul gives a bit of a discourse on, one, how a Christian is to act under a government. And two, what a government is really there in power to do. And they are really in power to be a terror to those who do evil. That's true. So I have no problem with, you know, the state, in a sense, as long as the trial is just and fair, putting a man who has, you know, slandered or what might have you done something illegal in prison. You know, if they did something to you that caused your business to be destroyed because of a lie, they told her something like that, you know, that was, and you could demonstrate it,

then, yeah, go after the guy and sue him, totally. But to say that we're going to put this guy in jail because he said something we didn't like, that's totally different, right, because they might be. be saying something that was good as we saw during 2020 2021 and so on yeah it's a tight it's a it's a balancing rope like who do i want in power really and it's like i want jesus i can't wait for when jesus gets to sit on the throne on earth you know and it says he's going to rule with an iron rod basically an iron sceptor so that anyone who does do evil you know anyone who does go up on stage and says you know i don't know what's an example sean newman is a so-and-so that isn't true at all

they're going to be dealt with instantly, whereas it doesn't work like that right now. We're fallen and we're very misguided in our actions. So the genius of the American Constitution is that it actually introduces those checks and balances as much as possible. As it stands, I want an inefficient government right now. It'll be efficient when Jesus comes.

That's great, but for now keep it inefficient. Try and safe luck. Like, did you read the new hate speech bill that's coming out here in Canada? Yeah. Walk me through it. I haven't read it in whatever yet, so I was asking you, actually. I just got the notification here on my phone a little while ago.

I have to read it in detail. I do know is that, what, does it expand the definition of what hate speech is? And it says that you can't, you can't fly offensive flags and so on outside of institutions. Is that correct? That's, well, I'm like you. I understand bits and pieces of it, but I haven't read the entirety in full. I haven't seen, like, is it all out now? I don't know.

I just honestly just popped up on my phone. Like, I know there's been tons of scenes. speculation over what it's going to say. Yeah. But until I read what it says, I can assume, you know. Oh, I can assume it's bad. Yeah. Like, I mean...

It won't limit government's power. It was... There, I'm going to pull it up. Yeah, sure. Yeah. One thing is certain. It won't limit government's power. Only increase it.

So this was just a couple days ago. This is the states now, okay? So Pam Bondi, the American attorney, former prosecutor, and Republican politician who has served as the 87th United States Attorney General since the start of this year. She said free speech and then there is hate speech. Okay. And we will absolutely, this is a quote from her, we will absolutely target you, go after you if you were targeting anyone with hate speech. And so they're talking about what it sounds like to me when I watched the interview.

Yeah. It reminds me of like the UK. Yeah. Right? Where if you, you know, like what's hate speech? Totally. What is hate speech? And so hate speech, you know, from my eyes looking at the world, is anytime you attack a group of people. So here in Canada, it would be First Nations. I would, I'm going to assume. Now, could you list off six other groups? I'm sure.

Sure. But here in Canada, when you bring up First Nations anything as I just did with Jennifer Laywitz, you know, that's an uncomfortable conversation. even for me and I go in on uncomfortable conversations. And it's just because that's where our society's at. In the United Kingdom, it's anything to do with immigration, right? It's, I mean, now if you fly a British flag, that's deemed hateful. Like you're, you know, and certainly the Canadian flag for a while, it's the same thing. Sure.

Right? So what is hate speech? To me, the world is dictating that hate speech is when you go on the offense of an attack, anything that is a group of people. Yeah, I would just say it's, yeah, it's speech that government hates. Right. Yeah. And that's going to change.

Yeah, it will. You know, as you pointed out with the news anchors, for a while, you know, coming out and calling Donald Trump and Charlie Kirk, a fascist. That was in vogue. Yeah, you could just do it. Nobody cares. You know, I watched a clip of, oh, who is the lady who, why am I forgetting her name, who ran against Donald Trump?

Why can't I think of her name? Clinton? No, no, no, the last one. Kamala Harris. Oh, yeah, Harris. Okay. Kamala Harris gets asked by a news anchor if she thinks Donald Trump is a fascist. And she's like, yeah, he's a fascist.

Yeah. And you're like, ooh, well, that's a pretty bold statement. But once again, she was probably applauded for saying that at that time. And now, you know, what has it been? A year later? Yeah. Two years later, whenever that clip came out. Circumstances are different.

Completely different. Yeah. Where you can't, you know, like that, now we're going to go after you for saying those things. Well, I mean, you can see how, you know, when you talk about the Antichrist, you know, one of the things that I was reading it is like, is there any possibility the Antichrist doesn't realize he's the Antichrist? Yeah, you know, I've wrestled with that question too. I don't think so.

But that's a tough one. And I'm trying to think of what theologians have said about the subject. I don't think so. Like we know first that Satan has. a deeper understanding of scripture than you or I do. She's had a long time to study it. So in that sense... But is the Antichrist Satan coming to the world as God did through Jesus?

No, no. I discussed this a bit. Yeah, no. What the scripture seemed to imply, this is Revelation 132, is that just as demons can possess a man, Satan's going to possess Antichrist. Right. That's what I think, that's what it seems to teach.

So my question then, Yeah. Or my thought maybe. Yeah. Is, you know, me and you've talked about this back and forth now for, you know, like, I don't know. Has it been two years now? I don't know. It's been a great conversation.

It has been an interesting going back and forth. And you think, I think, maybe you can clarify, that it'll be somebody who is popular. Yeah. Who comes from probably the right, not the left. Yeah. Or even it transcends those terms. Sure. And who fights against.

rallies against the powers of the world, whether it's oligarchs, whether it's all the UN, the WHO, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And my brain goes, why does he have to know what 15 he's the Antichrist? Why can't he just slowly, especially. And he might. And especially as he goes along, we will give circumstances for him to rise even higher and higher and higher. And that might well be. The scripture never explicitly says whether Antichrist knows he's Antichrist, not sense.

It just doesn't, the scripture, as far as I know, doesn't mention it. We know, you know, he's a man of lawlessness, and, you know, he can do signs and powers. If you read the scripture, he probably have a pretty good understanding, you know. But, yeah, no, there is nothing that says that he knows he's Antichrist when he's two years old kind of thing. No, no. No, he could just be a man who, you know, like, it's just been. It's power, an absolute power corrupt, absolutely. Yeah, what do you think about that quote?

I've thought about that quote a lot. power corrupts yeah actually is that the right quote it's by it lord acton power corrupts absolutely but i feel like that's actually a paraphrase of the full quote you know that i don't know for certain you know you know power corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutely but i almost feel like he wrote it differently maybe not yeah lord acton

i don't know what yeah power corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutely that might be the full quote I'm looking. Yeah, take a look. For people wondering what I'm doing, I'm looking. Take a look. I don't have a Jamie yet. One of the things that we've got in the new studio, we've got a desk there that eventually...

It's going to be a Jamie. Yeah. Sweet. That's awesome. Okay, here's what it says. Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men. Even when they exercise influence and not authority, still more when you superad,

tendency or the certainty of corruption by authority. So, from a Christian perspective, what do we think of the quote? Even just to paraphrase, power tends to corrupt, absolute power corrupts absolutely. True or false? For human beings? Yep. I would say true. I would say false.

Interesting. And why I say false is because you and I are born into sin. And it isn't the power that makes us sinful, that makes us corrupted. The man who doesn't have, quote-unquote, power, you know, the humble man. working at, you know, who knows what a job. He needs Jesus just as much as the leadership does. Now, the difference is that when you're in a position of power, you're able to exercise the corruption to a much larger degree than you or I can.

You and I are under a set of laws. We're governed by a set of rules that, you know, along with the natural law, which is within us and the scripture, restricts our activity that we might partake in. So you look at the time period between Adam and Eve and, even Abraham and you see that men have basically taken the law into their own hands you know there's a guy named lemmec and he talks about not just getting justice for what's been done to him but like getting absolute revenge he kills and kills and kills and kills to demonstrate just how violent and angry

he is because in his eyes that's what's right you know kind of thing um and so without that sort of law whether the natural law a physical law or some combination of both men just acts like this unrestricted animal. So you and I are then are, we're restricted in some sense. You know, we have families and so on and so on. Leaders are different. They're the ones who make the laws. And if they break a few of them, what do they care?

They just, you know, make an amendment to one so that they get off scot-free. Or they engage in insider trading or what might have you. So their power affords them the opportunity to exercise that corruption to a much larger degree than the rest of us can. So I don't know that I'd agree so much that power. corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely i would say power enables the corruption to be exercised and absolute power like absolutely allows it to be exercised yeah that's what i'd say so it's why a king like david or a king like solomon at least at the start is so remarkable because they have absolute power but they still follow almighty god and even david falls and solomon certainly falls so it's

that's the genius of a republic and so on puts a limit on that. Yeah. Power enables the corruption. And you know, it's true. Like, there is a difference between a tradesman and Schwab and so on. There is different, like there is different aspects of evil. There's no doubt about that. But as a general principle says, Paul, all men are fallen, all men are sinful. We're all separated from God. And Jesus says in Mark 7, 20 to 21, right, from within, out of the heart of man comes evil things. not from power. It's not from outside, not from being enthroned on a, it's not what you take in through the body. It's what comes out. So Acton's quote is in a sense understandable, but I'd still think I would shift it. I would change it. Yeah. So Antichrist, then this monster that's coming, you know.

Yeah, but I, but once again, I go, but monsters are wrong, in my opinion, wrong term to use, because I think of like this goblin with, you know, yeah, yeah, hook arms or hook fingers, claw fingers and sharp teeth and like you're going to see them and you're going to run from them. Yeah. That from everything I've read is the complete opposite thought. It's actually like this beautiful human being who's charismatic and can speak to the people and knows scripture and all the things.

Totally. Now, invert it. C.S. Lewis, you ever read The Weight of Glory? No. It writes this work called The Weight of Glory. and he has a discussion in there about what it might be for you and I to see the spirits of men if we could do so.

So, you know, you have, let's say you have someone who maybe doesn't, you have someone on your left hand side who doesn't, you know, typify the typical definition of beauty that we might understand. Maybe they're not so attractive physically. And then you have a very attractive model on the other side.

So you've got a dichotomy here. One ugly man and one good looking man. Lewis says, the ugly man, let's say he's a Christian, and let's say that the model is not a Christian. He says, so now let's suppose you can look at their spirits, and he goes, the ugly man, his spirit would be so gorgeous

that you would be tempted, almost overwhelmingly tempted, to worship it. Beautiful. Whereas the model, it'd be so hideous. Correct, yes. So in that sense, what I mean is Antichrist as a monster inside. Yes, yes, yes. That's what I mean. Whereas you're right on the outside is totally different.

I'm really convinced that. You brought up C.S. Lewis. Yeah. I got a quote that got sent to me. Hit me. Well, because after Charlie Kirk, I've been saying, I don't know how Charlie Kirk affected you. You know, you're one of the guys I thought of. Lots of people thought of me.

And I'm like, well, I'm not the guy on stage all the time. I'm not the guy, you know, certainly in this realm, I get it. I understand. But like the guys I was thinking of, I immediately thought of, I don't know, there's like three or four guys going around Alberta right now talking about what independence would look like. I'm like, well, those guys should be, you know, and hence you're one of them. So I had a couple different things sent to me. One, here's a sneak peek. One is DB Cooper.

Okay. And he's coming on the podcast next week, and I'm like super pumped for it. He'd written, I think I figured out this assassination is hitting deeper than normal. And I didn't know why. I'm not one who emotionally attaches to celebrities, public figures. I know death is not the end and find comfort in that. Yeah. I agree with that. Yeah. So why is it hurting so bad? Because the Holy Spirit is mourning and this, uh, that spirit is in all of us believers. Charlie was a light in this world who was bringing the good news to everyone. He was

leading us by example. We were not capable of understanding God's plans, but just as Jesus wept for Lazarus, the spirit weeps for Charlie. Yeah. And by, I, uh, then I have a, because of that, then I got sent C.S. Lewis. Okay. And C.S. Louis. And C. So I put this in my substack. People have been reading my substack. They're like, they know all that's coming. Yeah. But C.S. Lewis wrote, pain insists upon being attended to.

God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pain. Yeah. It is his megaphone to rouse a deaf world. It's a good quote. Of course, C.S. Lewis. Of course, Lewis. What a writer, hey. You've been hammering on C.S. Lewis since you first walked in here.

You know what? That's true. And I've read a lot of C.S. Lewis, but I had not read that one. No. And I was like, oh man, I got to sit and stew on that for a while, you know? Because it just seems to fit with what happened to Charlie Kirk. It does. To me, there was a guy going around and, you know, I'm finding people that are younger than me knew exactly who Charlie was.

You get my age and a touch older, it slowly starts to fade. Doesn't mean there wasn't people that knew who he was. There certainly was. But on the whole, the older you go, the less people knew who about Charlie Kirk. Now everybody's talking about Charlie Kirk. Yeah. Right?

You go to a round of water cooler, somebody's bringing it up. Yeah. And it's like he's got a megaphone, you know? And to me, that CS Lewis quote is like, bang on. Bang on. Bang on. I've never, I don't know that I've ever met an arrogant man who, you know, suffers physically, mentally, you know. There is no university for the Christian like affliction.

you can have all of the biblical knowledge in the world and go to all of these exquisite schools and study at Oxford or, you know, Cambridge or who knows where. And you might come out of there with only a fraction of the information of the knowledge of God that a man who has suffered like Job knows. It's completely different. There's theoretical knowledge and then there's application. And there is nothing that drives a man to his knees like affliction.

And once he is, fashioned and he's tempered in that way, then he drives to his knees in joy and happiness, which is a much rarer thing. Everyone prays to God when they're hurting. You know, not everyone, but a lot of people do. I'm in pain, I got to pray. What about when things are good? And that's much harder for people

to do, all people to do, because, you know, things are good. And what do I need help for? Yeah. But that's where we have to get to that point of well, I keep it, yeah. Yeah, I'm in a, I feel like I'm in a pretty good position. Yeah, yeah. And I'll, I'll, all, I'll admit first hand. It's easier when things are going wrong. You're like, but it's funny. I try really hard to center around like, am I going the right way?

Yeah. I'm not. Yeah. Let me know. Because I really don't want to walk off the path. Talking off the path will not be fun. No. I don't want to go that way.

But you're right. When things are just falling in the line, everything's going gangbusters and things are just, you're hitting home runs or it feels like you're hitting home runs. You know, you can let things slide. And that's usually when they do slide, I would probably admit. Yep. You read Revelation 3, 16 to 20. And Jesus is talking to the church at Laodicea.

Laudicea was known for its lukewarm water. It's just gross. And Jesus says, it's harsh. He says, I know your deeds. He's talking to the church. He goes, you're neither hot nor cold. You neither love me, you know, or hate me. You just kind of coast.

and he goes, I wish that you were one of the other. He says, I wish that you were either hot or cold. But because you're not, I'm going to spit you out like the water that comes into your city. And you say to yourself, I'm rich, you know, I've acquired wealth and I don't need a thing. But then Jesus goes, you don't realize that you're wretched, poor, pitiful, blind, and naked. He's just cutting. And it's the same here. Yeah, you know, it's the same thing where it's so easy to become complacent.

and just lukewarm about the entire thing. And if there's one thing Christ hates, it's that. Hates being lukewarm. So the rich man says, I don't need a thing because I have all the money. So what do I need to pray to Almighty for? Whatever I need I get. I get it with cash or I get it with influence or power, what might have you. Whereas the poor man has to pray.

He has no other option. And this is why you see, more often than not, those who are maybe not in such an advantaged financial position believing in Christ over those who are in a financially blessed position. That's why the whole gospel, the prosperity gospel, is garbage. Total nonsense, the idea that believe in Jesus and you'll get rich monetarily. That's nonsense. Yeah, because it's just completely the opposite of what the gospel teaches.

Doesn't mean you can't get rich by the way. It doesn't mean you can't. It's no sin in being rich. It's also no virtue to be poor. But the idea that I believe in Jesus, therefore I'm going to be rich, or am rich. Well, actually, believing in Jesus, you are rich. And it's true in a different, yes.

Not in a different sense, of course. You just have to change. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You just got to change your perspective. Perspective. Absolutely. The rich man doesn't have much when the grave comes. Yeah.

I've been, you know, I was talking to, is it Kevin? Kevin was you? I don't know. I was talking to somebody. And after the Charlie Kirk thing happened, I'm sure it was Kevin. And he says, yeah, you know, you should, there was a bunch of people say you should have Tanner back on, but, you know, there was other names. Yeah. He's like, yeah, I've been talking anything faith lately. And I'm like, oh, geez, I feel like it comes up more than I, like, I feel like it comes up, folks. Yeah.

Probably too much for the one side of it and not enough for the other, you know. Yeah. But it's funny. I've been in real, somebody asked me last night how it was going. Yeah. Said, yeah, good. Just feel like I'm in a slump, and I don't know why. Like, I just, I don't know why. And usually when I say that, I know the answer. It's like, hey, you probably haven't read the Bible enough. Probably go back to it.

Start there. Start reading. Start digging in and see what starts to pop. You know, this, we Unify Conference. Yeah. Strange story. I wasn't going. Or I was going, but I was going as a guest.

As an audience member. And I told them over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. For people wondering why I wasn't a part of it, it's because I'd made a choice. Yeah. I just want to go and experience somebody put on a show and me not to have. have to be a part of it. Yeah. I think that's not too much to ask.

I just want to pay the money, go sit, leave when I want to leave. Yeah. You know, sit and watch a production and be like, huh, that's interesting. Oh, I like how they did that. Didn't like how they did that. Yeah. I don't know. Who is this person speaking?

And it was a day before Charlie Kirk got shot, which I went back and looked at it because I was like, yeah, maybe this is strange to no one but me. So you're the first person to hear it. So I'm sitting here, right where I'm sitting. And I pulled out the Bible because, you know, I think I've shared this. I now have a Bible here for when I forget to read in the morning if that happens. Then I could sit and I can read in between interviews. Yeah.

And I was sitting there and I was praying about it. I'm like, I don't know. I'm like, this reunified thing. Am I supposed to be going or not? And I'm like, oh, you know, I hate to challenge you. Yeah. Because I don't want to do that. But I'm like, if you like I need to be there in more capacity, I trust you'll make a way, right?

Mm-hmm. As I'm praying that, the phone rings. Yeah. It's some random number. Mm-hmm. And normally, forgive me, folks, I don't pick up every phone call because you can imagine as we're sitting here and started ringing again. And it goes in waves, right? Sometimes it is super quiet.

Other times it is just like the thing rumbles all day long. So I've just come to ignore it unless it's my wife, essentially. And I'm, oh, nah, it can't be that easy. I pick it up. And it's a lady from BC, showed it to Erica. And I'm like, yeah, and I'm expecting her to invite me out to something in BC. and then she starts talking about how she's working for Wii Unify. And they're like, we'd really like you to come.

I'm like, you've got to be kidding. So who knows? Maybe there's nothing that happens this weekend, because this is like foreshadowing. I have no idea. I mean, it could just, I get to be on stage with you Sunday morning. Yeah. Are you on stage?

That's great. I'm excited about that. Or we're on the live stream. But you're part of it. I've read the schedule. Me and you and. Is it Wyatt Claypool? Wyatt Claypool.

Sweet. Oh, there's one other I know. Is it Layton? I can't remember. I can't remember there's five people. It's myself hosting with you, Wyatt, and two others. One I didn't know for sure, but three of the four I knew. Forgive me for not knowing the exact thing.

Anyways, I'm like, now I'm like, is this why I'm going? Like, why am I? I'm like, I didn't want to, I really didn't want to do any of this. Yeah. But if you're going to pray about something, you're going to put a phone call in while I'm praying. I mean, I'd be a moron not to go, oh, okay, all right. and here's one other for you, okay, as I'm on my monologue.

Yeah, yeah, that's a good monologue. This came in right before, right before I came in here. Yeah. Okay, I won't say the name. I'll just, I'll just, and the phone's ringing again. Okay, stop it, phone.

Okay, this is what got texted me. Okay. I think you'll like this. Okay. I just wanted to reach out and let you know firstly that I really enjoyed your chat with Tyler Toad. That just came out.

Sure. And I would push anyone to go back an episode and go listen to Tyler Toad. He, uh, uh, uh, devote, follower of Jesus, but, you know, he's a motivational guy who talks about going from being a gambler. Yeah. Divorced to like just changing his whole lot. It's a very positive episode. It was really fun to do.

Anyways, so he enjoyed my Tyler Toad, um, um, um, episode. Uh, then he said, secondly, I'd like to express my thanks to you for helping me. to recognize God in my life. I'm like, oh, man, that's a, that's a heavy text. That is a heavy compliment. And he goes, I think it was a couple of years ago I reached out and told you how randomly I picked three episodes, a podcast episodes, and now it's something to do with your journey with them. You said, I was seeing signs of God in my life because I was looking. I've continued to look and pray and has really made a difference in my life. I still have low days now and again, and I still have a lot of stress in my life, but I know God has a plan for me and everything

will work out. Thank you for guiding me to this place. I've always believed everything happens for a reason. I thank you for helping guide me to God and for God guiding me to you so I could have a relationship with him. You're making real difference in the world. Keep up the great work and all the best. God bless. I'm like, holy Macon. Positive. That's quite the text, isn't it? What a compliment. I think so. Yeah. I don't normally read out text as people know. I maybe should do more of that because there's great stuff that comes through there. Yeah. That came in like two minutes before you walked in. I'm like, how cool. Because yeah, it's that, you know, um, Yeah, relationship with Almighty.

You know, it's been so fun to talk just the last few years of you about belief, about how that relationship comes only through belief. It's just that's nothing has blessed me in our conversations as much as that. Just the simplicity of belief in Christ. Wow. What a gospel, hey? Like, when you think of the difference between that and all other, and I said, you're a busy man today.

I told, like, it goes in fits and spurts. That's three in like three minutes. Stop it. It's three minutes. Stop it. No, I'm not. It's just that the phone is hooked up to the, so when something happens, when people want to talk about it, and I love you all. Bang, bang.

Listen, I'm looking into the camera. I want everybody to know. I love it. It's just, it's funny because it goes and fits and waves. Of course, it's got to be right where we're sitting here. Of course. But anyways, yeah, I know the doctrine of belief has been so encouraging and important to discuss. Nothing, you know, freshenes the soul like listening to that gospel again and again and again.

Can't read it enough. Well, it's one of the things that, you know, did I know who Charlie Kirk was? Yes. Had I watched 10,000 hours of them? No. No, actually, I was saying to someone, if Jordan Peterson would have been shot like that, when we first started talking, I think that would have hit me extremely hard. Because I had read his book, read both of his books at the time. I'd watched countless hours of that guy because he just started to put together puzzle pieces for me.

just simply clean your room. Yeah. That led me on a journey to where I sit today. Yeah. But, you know, you go back through all of our conversations. Like, it's been a wrestle. I was saying, you know, like, so I put forward to, I'm working on my response, by the way. Sweet.

So, you know, me and Tanner always talk about Tolkien and C.S. Lewis. Yeah. And how they had correspondence. What a fun friendship. What a fun friendship. Yeah. And I'll say it again. I'll say it on live air.

To me, I've always. wondered what that correspondence would feel like getting it and then and then rebutting it, but like replying, replying and going back and forth. So I asked Tanner a question about dreams and emotions. Yeah. And so you wrote me about a, I don't know, a five page letter. Yeah. And there's lots of things that I agree with.

Yeah, yeah. And then there's some things. I'm like, I just, no, I'm going to write my thoughts out here. Yeah, yeah. Because I want to explain my side and go back and forth and back and forth. Yeah. And I'm like, I think this is what it would have felt, you know, Am I, CS Lewis or Jared Tolkien?

Heck no, folks, not even remotely close. But that's just on a, it's the same kind of thing in a different, a different, I don't know, reality or universe or level or whatever you want to take. But I'm like, this is probably what it felt like. I'm getting something and no, nope, I'm going to put in my own thoughts. And I assume Tanner's going to go. Great. No, no, no, no, no.

Go check out here. I'm going to go, we'll go check out here. And we're going to go back and forth. I'm like, oh, this is what it's going to be like, God willing. Yeah. For the next, like, 40 years. Sweet. Right?

Where you get to go back and forth. Yeah. And I'm, I chuckle, because the first time I ever met you was at a bell store in the Lloyd Mall. Yeah, I was getting a phone. You talked to me and walked away and I'm like, who is that guy? Yeah. I was, oh, yeah, right, whatever. And unbeknownst to me, we're going to sit here and do this now.

I don't know what this is. Is this the eighth time, 10th time? You know, normally, normally you're back on right before Christmas because we always do the Christmas episode. Yeah, yeah. It's become a very traditional thing that on Christmas, great. Tanner and it is on. And I look forward to that.

So do I. And that will be coming, folks. Sweet. But it's funny because now I'm like, no, there's some things that are going on in life that I don't understand. And who better to wrestle with that than Tanner? Because we've wrestled on a lot of these things. Yeah, it's been great to wrestle. That's what's fun about it.

It's a jostling back and forth. It's perfect. That's the way to do it. That's, you know, it's the same, you know, iron sharpens iron or men and women for that matter when they engage in that. combat's the wrong word but when they engage in that back and forth yeah they they flex and use the muscles that they wouldn't otherwise use it's is what university and stuff is supposed to be for too like there's no way to think or no way to think cohesively unless you have to consistently flex the muscle the brain and you do that and make yourself vulnerable yeah because because some of you know some of the

thoughts i've shared over the course of almost a thousand podcasts am i really going to talk about this It just sucks, right? I don't, I'd rather go in my brain, get strong somewhere else. Sure. I bet you if you go back and watch, if somewhere it's out there, Charlie Kirk arguing or debating the first guy. Yeah. Was he that sharp as he was the 10,000th?

Even if he was good at the start, he was phenomenal by the end. Yeah. And I'm not misusing phenomenal there. No, no, he was. You go watch and it is phenomenal to watch him go back and forth. his his ability to pull from the well of knowledge is insane incredible memory you see the same with Paul too like the difference between his arguments at the start of

axe or at least when he shows up an axe and whatever is Ax 9 or whatever versus the end it's incredible yeah like Paul at the Aeropagus versus you know even when he's before Felix and so on you see a much different Paul in the way he presents his argument yeah so it's of course men grow and and women grow and children grow in their understanding of how to present the message of truth in a way which is understandable and clear and concise and also, you know, even tolerable to two people. Not changing the message, but presenting it in a particular. This is what Churchill's gift was, to be totally honest, is he recognized that, and this is a quote

from that, it's actually a quote from that No More Champagne book, spending habits. Churchill was careful to distinguish between writing as a profession and speaking as a profession because he claimed, you know, writing was literature, totally, whereas speaking is almost an act. It's more of a show in a sense where you are trying to, you have a point to make, but you can't just stand up there and say, bang. You can, of course, but Churchill says, maybe it's more effective to use a few different devices here and there to try and make that point more, you know, yeah, tolerable or acceptable for people who are in the audience trying to sway them to your side.

Now, Spurgeon, who's this famous old preacher, hated using those sorts of devices. He said, I'm not going to stand back. He said in my room and train and train and train to raise my pitch here or change my tone of voice over there to try and elicit some emotion from a lot of man. He said, I'm going to let the Holy Spirit do it. And the Holy Spirit did do it. But the point remains, right, that that art of oratory is trying to persuade men to your side. And so in the case of Christians, like Spurgeon, or in the case of Churchill and so on, techniques are employed to help do that. So with Kirk, yeah, the more he matured, you saw how his precision in argument only increased

and his ability to persuade others of his position only became more effective. Yeah, brilliant by the end of it. Have you thought about the stage since what happened to Charlie Kirk? Oh yeah, we were back on it a couple days after. Yeah. Sure. You know, the Christians, the truth of a Christian is he is immortal until God's task with him is complete. That's it.

So there's really, a Christian need not have any fear. Stephen, you know, story of martyr Stephen, right? The greatest apologist in the church. This guy was standing up to trained legal scholars, Pharisees, and he was annihilating them in debates at the synagogue. You know, even it sounds like Paul was actually one of the guys that Stephen debated, and Paul was embarrassed by the way Stephen just outmaneuvered him again and again and again on the scriptures and how Christ was the fulfillment of the scripture.

And then, of course, that excellence leads to Stephen Stoning because he would dare, you know, make the claims that he was making. So Stephen dies young and Paul's watch, or I guess it's Saul then, you know, Saul's crossed his arms and he's standing watching as it's happening. But then from Stephen's martyrdom comes Paul. So Stephen's task was finished quickly, you know. And if you sit here, you say Stephen and I go, one of the craziest stories in the Bible is Saul.

It is. It's full stop. It is. Full stop. What's the point of Saul's conversion? He tells us in 1.15 and 16. He says, I was converted so that I, who is the worst of the worst, he calls himself the chief of sinners, would be a demonstration for all other men to know that they could be saved.

What he means to say is if I could be saved as the worst of the worst who persecuted the church, then the rest of you who aren't nearly as bad as I was can be saved as well. So that story is crazy, and it's crazy for a purpose. which is to show that even the most, you know, wickedly zealous of men can believe. Does Paul, or sorry, does Saul get to where he is if you don't have Steve? No? No, this is the grand plan of Almighty God who none can comprehend, says Paul in Romans 11 at the end. It's the doxology there at the end, you know, who can understand the Lord's ways.

So, no, the answer is no. because if you don't have Stephen, if you don't have Stephen Stoning, you don't have Paul continuing to persecute the church, you don't have him going to Damascus, you don't have Christ showing up to him there, and so on. What Satan means for evil, God means for good. So Stephen Stoning is a tragic martyrdom, the church wept, and rightfully so. But the consequences are almost the entirety of the New Testament.

So, you know, Satan thinks he's out-maneuvered God, but then it turns out God's out maneuvered him. Well, that's, you know, I don't mean to say Charlie Kirk is Steve. I know, but one of the things I'm like, when I'm watching, I'm like, okay, A, you know, my thoughts and prayers went immediately to his family and, you know, and every, I was just like, man, that is, you know, that is. But then, you know, as I sat back from him, I'm like, what is going to come out of this? What are the consequences?

Yes. Absolutely. And the truth is, I don't know. well you know none of us really know totally none of us really know but but you sure look at whenever there's martyrdom in the church um the consequences

always expand Christianity or at least you know most invariably do so Christians who were fed to the lines that didn't stall the church or it didn't destroy it it did the contrary because in a sense it does serve as a it does serve as a proof I think that

you're right you know if the only if the other side if the only option left for the other side is to silence you. Then it's probable that they can't defeat you in a debate because you're true or you're speaking what's true. You know, if the Pharisees could have, if they could have dismantled Jesus' arguments in a debate, as they tried to do a lot,

they wouldn't have had to have killed him. No one would have followed Jesus. But they couldn't. And so what was left, but to wipe them out. Or at least try to. You know, they failed, but, you know, kill him. That was it. So with Kirk, it was a sort of...

Well, I mean, but no, but you think... It's an admittance, yeah. Let's just put them up. We'll nail them across. This will all be over. All be over. Right? People, yeah, they're going to cry for a few weeks, but life will move on.

I have, I firmly believe back then was no different than today. Mm-mm. That things would move on. Charlie Kirk's going to get killed. It's going to be a big thing for a couple days, and life will move on. We'll be on to the next story. And, you know, and then that'll be that. And we'll look back in 20 years and go, that was really sad or something like that.

And they killed Jesus And he says, hold my beer You know, just wait a second here Wait a second It ain't over just yet Yeah, that's right That's exactly right We're gonna kill Steve

Yeah Steve, sorry Steve You're gonna get stoned And that'll be the end of this That'll be the end of it Nope, not really No No, that's exactly right That's exactly the point

I remember what I remember sorry I remember when I read The story of Saul for the first time I was like What? I know. No. Yeah.

What? So wait, and I remember talking about either Blaine or drawing about it and be like, Saul's Paul? I didn't know that. Yeah. And wait a second. He was like killing everyone? Like everyone.

It was the most, it's the most dramatic conversion in the scripture. Yeah, you read this story. You're like, oh man, I got to think about that for a bit. I got to think about that for a bit. Yeah. And here's, now here's what's interesting too. So Paul gets, Saul becomes Paul, and becomes converted, believes in Christ. Goes to Ananias, is baptized and so on, you know.

first thing Paul does, or one of the first things he does, is not go forth into the entire world and preach to the multitudes. He goes and hides. By hiding, I mean, he goes and studies, and he studies for years and years and years. Even someone as learned in the law as Paul, someone who grew up in the synagogue and who literally had memorized Torah, like new Genesis 49, 3 and so on, verbatim kind of thing. He had to go and study for years and years and years. Here's what I mean to say. I've noticed so much lately, and I know I'm going to sound, I'm going to sound not hyperbolic, but maybe like a prude or something.

I've noticed so much you go on social media sites, particularly X, because it's the way X is designed, and you see these instantaneous takes from these various commentators, particularly about scriptural realities and how all that's happening with Kirk and so on applies to the Bible or vice versa and push it out into the masses. And then the people who are reading it, you know, are inundated with all of this new information, and they try and form a belief which is cohesive. But the truth is, and not to sound, you know, exclusivistic or anything,

but the truth is, a lot of those commentators, as excellent as a lot of their information is, they're not theologians. And it's not as though a lot of those commentators are producing scripturally accurate truths by these instantaneous takes. It is far more edifying and advantageous for you and I, and I think even the rest of society, to maybe not head to those social media sites to determine what's true and what's false, but to instead read some research papers on the matter, you know, and to try and form a worldview from that. As big as the books are, like, you know, the systematic theologies and so on,

and as boring as they can be to read, there is information that will never acquire from an instantaneous social media site, like Twitter or whatever else it might be. So that's one thing I've really noticed in the last few days, particularly with, you know, Kirk's with all the news with Kirk and so on. It's just everyone's giving their take right now and how it relates to the scripture and so on and so on and so on. But maybe it's okay to step back and study it for the scripture for a while

and then, you know, form a worldview. If it took Paul years. It's funny. Always curious what it would, because your social media feed isn't my social media feed. as my social media feed isn't twos. You know what I mean? Tues always goes, he always laughs at my feet.

That's what you're getting? I don't see any of that. Yeah. Right? And you think, well, that's because it's designed to make you want to interact with it.

Yeah. And so I, what I've noticed over social media in the first, however many days it's been now, is at the start, it was like all compassion, right?

Fair enough. Heck, that's what I put out. Yeah. And then, you know, I'm, I can sympathize for people that create content. So can I. Because the amount of text that came in saying,

you're going to do a live show, right? And I want to once again speak directly to the audience. I don't, I don't, um, um, what's the word I'm looking for? I'm not trying to belittle any of these comments, right? And come out against my audience for, it's just, it's tough to sit and try and stewing your own feelings on the matter

and then immediately produce something. It's usually very dangerous. Produce something so rapidly that I just kind of wanted to, it's okay to be sad. It's okay to be sad and it's okay to not be instantaneous sometimes. I know in the content world that's a sin. It is a sin. It is a sin. The first and out of the gate is like, how dare you?

I mean, everybody, everybody's, if you have anything about Charlie Kirk right now, it's probably going viral. You're getting clicks. And it's tough. I'm, like some of the stuff's been put out has been, as I've read. read off. I'm like, that was really beneficial to me. Yeah. And then I had to go sit and stew on that. Yeah. You know? And I find I'm not at my best, but I'm close to my best when I stew on things instead of just like first thought that comes to my brain, right? I know what you mean. Yeah. So now all the things that I see are it's the fight that's going on. I don't see the fight. It's kind of like

when you brought up a Christian's old new God. Yeah. It's like, I don't see that fight. When I read it in your book, I'm like, really? I'm like, I guess I'm under a rock when it comes to that fight. I just read my Bible and I see, you know, God, I don't know. Yeah, I know what you mean. I don't know how to say it than that, folks. But today on social media, what I see is that one side is still belittling Charlie Kirk to be a fascist, fascist, racist, all these different things. And then different people coming out and refuting what they're saying, and I can see the argument. And that argument is getting pushed higher and higher because it's all over my feet.

Oh, yeah. And it's like, it's pretty simple. If you want to know who Charlie Kirk was or you want to know who anyone is. Yeah. That's in that sphere. There's probably no less than 10,000 hours of Charlie Kirk. Probably no less than that. There's probably more than that.

You want to just know who he is? Go watch an hour. Yeah. You don't have anyone commentate to who someone is. Go watch an hour. And you'll know. It's best to you should just read about the person. Yeah.

Like, you know, I maybe don't get my, I was on a show yesterday. and again it's i know it sounds almost arrogant but i don't get my theology from twitter i don't think it's very wise to get my theology from someone who makes a living doing hot takes that might not necessarily be the most the wisest uh you know course to to engage in i think you're right there is a fight you don't hear a thing i'd maybe last maybe two months ago i still go on facebook but i deleted facebook i only use it to post my content i deleted twitter i deleted youtube i deleted everything not because i wanted to exercise what Paul commands us to not do in Colossians to, what is it, 20 to 23, where he's like, don't make perfection a consequence of, you know, outwardly actions. That isn't

right, he says. But because I just found, well, one, it wasn't edifying. I wasn't getting a lot that made me seek Christ more. And secondly, it took a lot of time, of course, you know, because you're doing nothing. I'll scroll Twitter or whatever it is for a bit. Or who knows what. And thirdly, I was more depressed leaving those pages than I was when I went on them to start with. And in light of that ecclesiasty study I was doing, basically saying, go outside and touch some grass and have a coffee with friends. You know, you and I once in a while have a coffee on your driveway and stuff. That's the best part of life. And I know that, like, you know, you're a way bigger content creator than I am, but I, you know, we do stuff too.

And so in that sense, social media has been a blessing, both to be able to produce content, which we believe accurately reflects truth. and to be able to form new networks that we otherwise wouldn't have been able to do before, totally. But like anything, that can also become a monster is a right word to use now. It can become all-consuming. That's right. Right now, I feel like I could do four shows a day.

Yeah. And they all be meaningful. Totally. And yet, I kind of laugh at myself when I say something stupid like that, folks, because I'm like, what would I be giving up for it? You know, going to we unify. Yeah.

I'm annoyed right now. Mm-hmm. looking to the personal life of Sean. But someday maybe my son will listen to it and he'll understand, you know, like, it's like this balancing act. I know I have to go to certain things, right? Like I just, I know I have to, you know, be out there like the cornerstone forum. I'm going to give up time with my kids to go do it, right?

And so anytime I'm asked to go do something, that's what I'm gauging against. I'm like, do I really need to go do this? Like, what am I losing? And this weekend I'm losing. my son has his game this weekend in football and it's two two and oh teams and he's just pumped for it

like it's just cool to see your kids be like that excited and know that it means you know in their world it means something yeah and I'm not gonna be on the sidelines yeah and now is it the end of the world no it is not the end of the world totally but it tears at me I sit and I'm like

do I really gotta miss that yeah do I really need to miss it big guy do I really need to miss this you know and then he puts phone call in the minute of your prayer and you're like I don't know I'm gonna fall right because I mean like if this is where you're leading I'll go I just you know like um the the the the the trying to be X and have 10 million followers that that takes consistency like nobody's business building a show like this or or you're writing a book I can't imagine writing a book like at some point in the back of my brain I've said it a long time ago I do want it you should do it totally Totally. But I'm like the consistency to put together coherent thoughts that actually gives it a book value. I admire anyone who does that because that is a difficult thing to do. Yeah. And people always go, yeah, like, well, you do five shows a week. And I'm like, I don't know. It didn't start out that way, though. Start out once a week. It's just consistency. It's like going to the gym. If you go once and never go again, well, what were you actually doing? And then you look at people who run or exercise daily. I bet it just started slowing and snowballed to where it became part of their life.

The show, you know, I am very fortunate on this side. Monday morning, I remember being in the corporate world and be like, for Monday morning blues, you know? Yeah. And I can safely say there ain't a Monday morning that comes where I don't go, man, I can't wait. You know, like next week as it sits, like I got two or three guests and I'm just, they've never been on the show before.

I'm excited for it. Yeah. I'm excited to see what they have to say and talk to them. And I think there's some interesting ideas that will probably percolate out of it. Yeah. You know, wrestling with whether I was going to invite Tanner to be the first guest in the gold chair. I'm like, I should just do it. I don't know.

Well, it's been christened now. Well. But no, but like your point is right. Like even with like X and getting all of these followers when I started social media, whenever it was during the lockdowns. Like everyone else, I wanted a big page, you know, lots of followers. lots of followers, work as hard as you can, however many videos a day and try and get content out as quickly as possible and so on and so on. But the older I get, the more I'm like, you know,

I think as excellent as content creation is, totally, there's no doubt about it. I find it to be so much more gratifying to be able to interact face to face with people. I would sooner, as I'm getting older here, I'm something like an old man, but as I'm getting older, I would sooner preach, I think, to 100 people in person, 60 people in person, than have, you know, 20 million people see my post on Facebook or something. Not that either is a bad thing. It's just that in person's real, you know. And when you read about the early church, we always talk about the early church,

but, you know, the Acts Church, it really was. Five people are gathered together in a home. Ten people are gathered together in a home. Paul's, you know, you look at Paul. He's this guy who makes tents for a living. And then he goes to synagogue once a week, or to present his case, his defense of Christ or his promotion of Christ. And then he meets with some people and, you know, builds a small church and then it grows.

But it's those small, it's that small individual or a group of individuals that builds up, you know, that builds up the gospel and spreads it forth. It's not as though the gospel was built on social media. As wonderful as social media is, there is something that, that sticks when you do it in person. Again, content's wonderful. Like, think of how much more information we've been able to receive that we otherwise wouldn't have been able to understand

over these last how many years. That's been a miracle. It's held government to a far straighter account than it otherwise would have been held to. So thank the Lord for social media in that respect. But also thank the Lord for your son's football game, you know, or having neighbors. You know what I mean?

That's much, yeah, that's much more, it seems gratifying. I'm going to tell you another story. Hit me. So I've been, you've seen the work I'm doing on the front yard, right? Oh, yeah. Okay. So I've been giving her. So to the audience member that doesn't live in Lloyd Minster, I've been, I've been

slowly picking away at this project. Now, by slowly, I've been out there for like probably close to a month now, almost every night, just, you know, picking rocks and slowly digging up some dirt and whatever. And I have met more of my community doing that. Yeah. I got this two groups of old ladies that must go on a nightly walk that walk by me. Is it the lady who wears those purple anklets? You've seen that one?

I've seen her. She walked every day. Good for her. They walk by in the first time, they're like, they kind of nod at me. Yeah. Second day, another nod, you know. And by like the fifth day, finally one of them goes, what are you doing? And I explain it.

Oh, that's going to be a lot of work. Yeah. Yeah. And then they keep walking. Yeah. And every time they, now they stop for longer and longer and longer want to know what, you know, oh, this is going to me. Oh.

Yeah. And I'm saying that my neighbor, Shelley, I'm like, like I don't think I've lived here almost 10 years haven't met half these people yeah yeah sit out on the front and just pick away to a nod and smile and how are you doing today and just so now I got people talking to me off the balcony of the nearby apartment yeah like so this is what community's like you just got to sit there open to conversation yeah and be doing something you know I had an older couple walk by they're in from Newfoundland you guys you you're gonna be at this for a while and I'm like well I don't know I got to get it before snowfall is my

goal so yeah yeah but I mean I'm picking up picking away at, you know, going to Calgary and then coming back and doing a bit of work. He's like, well, if you're still here in a week's time, I'd love to come and lend a shovel to it. I'm like, sure. You know, by the end, by the end of this, they'll have 50 people just like, we just got to get this finished for you. You've been picking away at this too long. I got to chuckle about it because, you know, like, like I say, nine years in the place, you know, like three neighbors. A couple of them moved.

Yeah. Sit out in the front for less than a month. Yeah. Picking rocks, essentially. Yeah. And all of a sudden now everybody stops and talks you because they want to know what the heck you're doing. Yeah. I'm just working on a project.

That's living. Isn't it great? Yeah, it is. That's living. And it's just, it's so much fuller than what so many of these other institutions would offer us. I wonder, even for yourself, this is going to sound weird because, like, obviously, you know, go back to the, does everybody have a time in the wilderness? Yeah. And I wonder if this isn't the wilderness.

And maybe I'll flesh this thought up for a second. You know, like you want, do you actually want to have millions of people following along with every word you say as you're growing? Like, do I actually want people to listen to me? Yeah. 600 episodes ago? I don't know. I don't know. I know what you mean.

I'm like, I don't know. Yep. And maybe that time will never come when a million people are listening. That's okay. Yeah. Right? Like, just, you know, the text I share everything, I'm like, man, that's pretty cool. That's great.

You know? Yeah. And yet I'm like, maybe this is the wilderness. Maybe it's just growing you. So in, you know, like in 10 years' time, you've got, I don't know what that'd be, folks, another 1,000 episodes plus under your belt. Sure. I mean, that's the time all of a sudden something just sparks and you're like, holy crap, I didn't see that happening. But then you look at your 10 years of podcasting or speaking in front of crowds and everything, and maybe something clicks.

And all of a sudden you're thrust into a position you probably didn't want to go. Yeah. Right? I look at Charlie Kirk and I'm like, that was a guy who worked at that for years. For years. Decades. And don't get me wrong, he was a large, large person. Oh, yeah.

Before he was shot. Yeah, of course. But by the end, he had thousands of people coming to see him debate people. Yeah. What a thing that is. Yeah, I know, isn't it? But you're right. The truth is, the wilderness isn't never as bad as we make it out to be.

You might actually enjoy that time. Yeah. And you will certainly look back on it and wish that you didn't enjoy it as much as you did. That's true. And that's what, again, I keep going back to the Ecclesiasis. No, you wish you would look back and you enjoyed it more than you did. Yeah. Actually, yeah, right.

Yes, I'm sorry. You're right. That's the way to put it. And that's what's so good about the ecclesiastes. That's just a book that keeps you grounded because, you know, the teacher, Solomon is like, you want all the money. He said, I had all the money. I said it just was more headaches and a lot of stress.

And you want all the power. I had all the power. You know, I wish I could just go out fishing one day. You know what I mean? And so it's just that perspective of... Be where your feet are and enjoy it. And enjoy it. Totally enjoy it.

And just I'm so much... I just want... You know, you have to advocate just to live life as it's meant to be lived. Have some coffee in the morning with your wife or your husband. Or go for a walk. Enjoy the... Enjoy the scenery. That's what Lewis and those guys did so well is they wrote and wrote and all that jazz.

But they also enjoyed nature. And they went for walks. And they had, you know, they went to the, you know, pub and had beers together kind of thing. Well, they struck up friendships and then debated things that they were interested in. Real friendships. And so that's my, that's a sort of love affair I have with smaller towns like Lloyd. I think life is generally bigger in smaller towns.

You know more people. You know, they're just, you see that you see your neighbor at the grocery store, strike up a conversation. It doesn't happen in the huge centers because everyone's, even though they're closer together, they're somehow more distant. It's just not that same level of friendliness. You won't get a friendliness anywhere like you will in the smallest of communities. You know, it's just the way the world works.

You have no choice. No, that's right. Yeah, you're exactly right. It's like family. You have no choice. You got to live with the person. You got to work with the person, whether you like him or not. That's exactly it.

In the big city, I can move far away. Never see you again. So I live in my own little bubble. One more question before I let you add to. Chris, you're Freeland. Yeah. Your thoughts on her stepping away? or whatever the term they're using for it.

Thoughts on Christia Freeland stepping away. Another politician comes and goes, but Christ remains. So all that Freeland is done. Did you think you're going to get any? Did I think I was going to get anything different from Tanner today? Probably not. The last decade, you know, we've launched our salvos against Freeland and all that she's done. Rightfully so.

She's been a very poor, a very poor leader, and she's harmed Canada, you know, with her, with budgets and the way that she's acted and so on, no doubt about it. Now she's gone. Someone new is going to take her place, and the process will repeat all over again, but Christ endures remains. Isn't that neat? Isn't that wonderful? This is why, again, Paul writes Romans 13. Politicians come and go, you know. I had someone asked me the other day, if you could take it.

take out all of the wicked leaders in the world, would you do it? And I went, well, wicked ones would just take their place. The gospel isn't right. The gospel isn't a message of take over wicked powers in government, and then things will be good. The message of the gospel is what? Believe in Christ. And then no matter who's in power, it's going to be good.

What you just said there is like, if you could snap your fingers, what would you do? And I'm like, well, everything I'd try and do. would probably backfire on me in, you know, is it a year? Is it 10 years? I don't know. But it would. Yeah. So what can you do? It's like, well, talk about Jesus. Yeah, that's exactly right. You know, I mean, that's been more beneficial in my life than probably anything else. Well, I know, not probably than anything else I've done myself. So this is what I've been wrestling with over the last couple months, like ferociously wrestling with. You want to talk about wrestling has been this. Okay. So you and I want to, you know, make as much of a difference as possible in this world to make life better. Yes. That's true.

But then we're confronted with the scripture with Jesus' teaching that the poor is always going to be among you. So you have to try and I've been trying to wrestle with that statement. On the one hand, we want to make life like economically and so on better. No doubt about it. It's good when families are richer. And it's good when families are able to do more with their children, absolutely. and it's good when they're not stuck at what they consider to be a dead end job

and all that jazz. On the other hand, Jesus goes, always going to have those dead end jobs, you're always going to have the poor among you, there's always going to be trials and difficulties, at least in this world, until I return. Sure. And so I'm sitting there going,

what exactly, you know, is our purpose? You know, is it to try and generate economic reform, which is a good thing, and, you know, government reform and so on, Republican, all that jazz. Or is it to say that, is it to try and promote the message of no matter who's in power and no matter what your economic circumstance is like, there is a freedom in Christ that isn't attainable otherwise, even if you're poor, even if government's bad, even if so

and so and so and so and so exists, you can have this absolute freedom in Jesus, knowing that you're saved for all eternity? You know, there are things that I detest about government. I detest their laws on abortion. I detest their laws unmade. I detest all of those things. I think they're reprehensible and wrong, no doubt about it. And so in this sense, it's good to fight for a change in government so that proper laws might be reintroduced to Canada.

Fair. At the same time, or at the same time, the ultimate freedom comes in Christ, comes through Christ. And so it's this balancing act, you know, that one has to try and grapple with. Yeah. So that's what I have been thinking about endless. over the last few months.

Because you want to expend your energy, usually to expend the word, I think so, to one thing, you know. That's usually what, it's usually, it's difficult to fight a two-front war. It's not impossible. And so, you know, you're excellent of that. You put all your energy into this stuff. Bang. And, you know, it's flourished as a consequence.

Sometimes you have men who are trying to do 15 different things at once, and it can be problematic. So lots of prayer about what's the most efficient way to use the time, which has been given to me on earth, so as to produce fruit for the Lord Jesus. That's something to really ponder. I've been thinking about that a lot. And here's why.

You know, I know I'm going overtime, but still, here's why. There is no overtime on a podcast. No, no, no, no. Talking about Twitter. I don't know if you've noticed, but I've noticed people who say Christ is Lord and so on, on Twitter becoming almost militant lately. We've got to conquer.

We've got to take over. We've got to use, you know, blah. And both sides, you know, this is true on all sides are saying, we've got to conquer kind of thing. Because we want to reform the government, new government, or new political structure so that we can bring a utopia here in on earth. It isn't the gospel. That isn't what Christ preaches.

He's coming back to rule. That's true. And that's exciting. But the gospel right now is, this is Romans 13 and a lot of Christians, especially we who love freedom, grapple with it. Because it seems like Paul is just saying, surrender to government, which he's not. what he's instead saying is live a humble and quiet life

acting as a Christian ought to act so that you might be a testimony to your neighbors so even if Nero is in power and even if you know or Hadrian or whoever it might be is in power you have a new freedom that you can exercise so that in spite of the evil that happens in government which has always happened right from the time of well you know Adam but also Kane I guess is really the big gun to start

you get to enjoy life, which is not attainable otherwise. I almost hear two different things. What do you hear? Well, one is, as an individual, what should I do to bear the most fruit? That's right. Okay? That's true. So all I can do is, you know, you go, oh, I put all your energy into this and you're

seeing it explode. Right. I know, maybe, I guess at times I'm a little bit naive to what I've built. Yeah. I just continue to follow where I'm led. And times I just don't understand. I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm like, what am I doing?

Yeah. And along that path, I found Jesus. Yeah. Right? And so then that started to at least straighten part of the road, or maybe it's straightened the entire road. I don't know. But certainly I was like, oh, I didn't even know that's what I was looking for.

Yeah. Right? Like, yeah. Oh, what would happen here? Yeah. So that, so now, you know, when I'm putting all my effort into is like trying as best as I can to keep that in mind wherever this goes. Yeah. Right? Totally.

Because I don't want to go a hard left. No, I know. Yeah. And leave that path. Like the path is quite enjoyable. Yeah. Is it easy? I wouldn't say that.

Totally. Right? But it, but it gives me peace at night. Go to bed, sleep like a, you know. Things in my life, you know, I'm on to almost nine full months not drinking right now. Right. Well, congratulations. And how exciting.

Yeah. It is. It's, it's, it's, you're just, could I have done it without going through all the things that have happened? Right. Possibly, I don't know. But that isn't the story. The story is I have it now, and I just, you know, onwards and upwards. Yeah.

And the second question, or the second thing I'm hearing in there is why I thought of you. One, you're on stage, like Charlie. But the other thing is, is Charlie was trying to bring, to me, two things it looks like together. Yeah. One is more people back to Jesus. Yeah. By his arguments. Amen.

And more engagement in politics. Yeah. And when I look at you, I see both of those things. It's like you go listen to you talk. Yeah. You don't get lukewarm on Christianity. You get, no, this is what it says. Yeah.

And you're trying to implore people to get involved in politics. Yes. So, I don't know, those are the two things I hear. Yeah, yeah. And you go, so which direction should I take? Well, I would say you're taking it. Maybe. And totally, and that's what I was going to say next is what every Christian, everyone, to be honest, asks themselves, what's my purpose in life?

Sure. And the answer is to, this is in Ecclesiastes too. just obey the Lord, glorify the Lord, exalt him. So how do I do that? Well, I obey him every day. What does he put before me today? I have to do this and this and this. I'll do her. And then the next day, something different will come along. What do I have to do today? This and this and this. So I've tried to stop asking myself, where do you, or asking the Lord, where do you want me, Lord, or what am I supposed to do with my life? And instead, now I do my best to ask him, you know, when I pray and so on, what can I do today?

And it's just, it's taken, like you said, the pressure off. There isn't that same pressure that there was to achieve some sort of, achieve some sort of perceived success by some particular age, you know, expand or build up some amount of capital by 30 or by 40 or whatever it is. But that is in the back of all of her heads. Of course it is. All of us want a level of success. Always.

I've almost, forget who said it. What is success? What is success? How do you define it? How do you define it? What do you mean? How do I define it? Probably prestige wealth.

I can just think of, you know, actually that's right out of a movie, isn't it, folks? Prestige wealth. What? Anyways. Yeah, the truth is the rich man would define it very differently than the countryman. The rich man usually wants to go in the country and fish. And the countryman usually wants to have a bit more money in his pocket. You know, like it's what is success, yeah.

Well, it's something to stew on. It is something to stu on. Yeah. That's why it bothers me to miss a football game so much. Yeah. Because I like being a party. I've interviewed way too many of my elders. Yeah.

Talk about the years that I'm in right now that at times are like as hard as I can go to make everything. Right. With kids sports or kids activities, we just were out at the fall fair, you know, at the school. And it's just become one of the things I earmarked, no different than having you on at Christmas. It's like one of the things I'm going to the fall fair. I'm going to buy a pie. I was disappointed this year. There was no pie.

No pie. So I'm just throwing that out there. I would like a pie next year that I can bid on and try and support a small town school. Totally. And yet get something that I'm like, I don't get enough pie in life. Totally. In fairness, I don't want pie every day. But maybe I do.

Yeah. And it's the success thing is an interesting thing. Because if I wasn't full time with this right now, I would want that. Sure. All right. Now having it. It's like, okay, so what actually is success? It's Peterson's, every time you're at a mountaintop,

you're going to look and you're going to see another mountain top. Sure. And I've been trying to rewire my brain to enjoy the journey. That's, yeah. That's a Frank Pretti. Yeah. Mine and Frank Pretti's conversation that nobody heard, well, everybody heard the Frank Pready conversation. But after we were done, me and him sat and talked for an hour.

Yeah. And he stopped me and he said, you said something that I just got to disagree with. And I was like, oh, what did I say? you know and he said something along pace something to do you said something about how fast he's like it's not fast it's a journey enjoy it yeah enjoy your you know enjoy the journey of finding jesus christ enjoy the journey of developing a podcast or of whatever business you're starting or whatever occupation you have because if you enjoy it then every day becomes yeah that much yeah you're just happy to the you know be where your feet are yeah and that is a

hard thing for us to get around because if you're on X, you want a million followers. I don't know why you want it. I know why I want it. I actually don't want it for a million people. Whatever the number is higher on your X account, it makes getting guess easier to come on because they look at you and they perceive success. Totally. No different than if you are a lawyer, just having, whether you're practicing or not, you're a lawyer. All of a sudden, we deem you have knowledge. Yeah. You're a doctor, you're all these things. Sean is an ex-hockey player with a degree in history. If all of a sudden it said PhD, everybody would look at you and go, oh, you must know a couple things. Totally. And so you go, why do you want, I go back to X? Why do you want the million? I know why I want it.

Yeah. The reason I want a million isn't because I want a million. I want a million because they'll access me more people that will want to come on the show. That's full stop. That's it. Totally. Actually, the thought of having, I think it's 44,000 people now on there, I'm like that actually, you know, like you've seen the phone. Yeah. Bang, bang, bang, bang.

It nerves me. Yeah. The, you know, like I try and reach out. Can you imagine Joe Rogan or take your pick, take your pick of anyone who has, you know, millions upon millions upon millions of views of any of their content? Yeah. How insane their phone or social, like their accounts that they have to be. and you're trying to get a message to them? Yeah.

Impossible. Like, and yet what I want is I want, I want success to be where I can sit down with anyone under the sun. Just imagine you could talk to anyone. Yeah. And discuss Jesus with them. Yeah. Or discuss economics or any of the things.

Yeah. To me, that would be, that would be pretty wild to achieve that. Yeah, wouldn't it? How cool. Right? What does Paul say? What does he say to success as well? He uses that metaphor.

You know, it's not a simile. It's a metaphor. Run the race. He wants to run the race well. And you're right. Paul says that? Paul says, oh yeah, that's like the Paul saying, believe it or not. Run the race.

Yeah, run the race. Run the race is, you know. What a metaphor. It was probably three years ago. Tanner blew my mind by saying Jesus said to one of his disciples, Satan get behind me. And I'm like, he did not say that. I don't recall.

That happened in the. this room after we're done i'm like he did not say go read your bible i am going to go read my bible and i'm going to find that and then i'm going to prove you wrong and then i read it i'm like that is something oh i got to think on that you're telling me paul says run the race look it up sent timothy i think even now it's like that's like you know i think second timothy is probably the most emotional book in scripture i think it's very difficult for um well really anyone who's reading it honestly to not end that book in just tears because it's Paul's what is it it's his well it's really his goodbye he knows that he's coming you know to

the end of his trip and he's his adventure and he's and starting a new one of course going to heaven but he talks about how he's run the race what does it say okay now forgive me this is GROC doing what GROC does. Okay, 1 Corinthians, 924. Do you not know that in the race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. Totally. In Philippines, Philippians, 313, 14, forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead,

I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. 2 Timothy 4-7, I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith, and in Hebrews 12-1, therefore since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race, mankind. Oh, no, race marked out for us. Sorry, forgive me. No, that's good.

Isn't it? That's a great metaphor. The second Timothy one, that one makes you cry. that one is stunning, isn't it? Second Timothy, I'll read it one more time I have fought the good fight I've finished the race

I've kept the faith What a quote Why does that bring you to tears If I may ask? I don't know you know that That's a tough one Why does it I don't know

I was smarter right now Wought the good fight Finish the race You run the race I couldn't tell you something of the spirit that whole book brings you to tears um what for it's just an emotional letter you can see it in paul's you can hear it um in his writing he's just you know even the difference there so of course this is paul's last letter because he's almost it's almost the end of it

the difference in his tone there versus his first letter galatians um is just Stunning. Like, of course, both are, both letters are inspired. But you see a very pointed, Paul, in Galatians, you know, read that book, and he is just, he is admonishing the Galatians for their, for their falling, or at least their possible falling away from grace and returning back to works.

Whereas in Timothy, 2nd Timothy, he's this very soft-spoken. He's still giving commands, and he's being directed. clear, but he just has a different tone about him. It's an older Paul. Yeah. That's one to study. I'll study that one again. You know, I brings a guy to tears. Well, you know, I always used to ask, you know, if you go back in history and interview one person, it would be. You know, a lot of people say, Jesus. Yeah, yeah. I think the longer I go, I'm like, oh man, I would have taken Paul in a heartbeat. That guy was brilliant. You know, they study Romans and stuff in law. I mean, I'd probably take in fairness, folks, I'd probably take anyone out of the Bible. Yeah, that's true. But,

For me on this side, Paul has, I'll say it again, I probably already said it a couple times, that story and everything in it. No, I got to go back and read it. No, I know it's shocking. Oh, I totally agree. It'd be so, I would love, if I had my way, I would put Paul on stage with anyone right now. I would love to see him debate. I bet you un-shadowed. Imagine somewhere up in heaven right now. Charlie Kirk's sitting beside Paul. And they're having to go through techniques. They're having a final discussion, you know, a final discussion. That's probably right. Oh, no, Paul's genius.

If he wasn't the most genius man to ever live, I don't know who would be. I would say that Paul was probably the, yeah. And I, like, you know, between scientific geniuses like Einstein and Newton and so on, or between the philosophical geniuses like Aristotle or Plato or Socrates, whatever it might be, I think Paul eclipses all of them. His genius is unfathomable. That guy was brilliant. Romans is, you know, we talk about the big books of the Bible.

They're all important, but like Genesis and John, and those are critical ones totally. And Romans is among them. But I think Romans is probably the most brilliant book ever written, the most brilliant letter ever penned. I don't think there is a book that is so logically pure, emotionally pure, intellectually pure like Romans. It's just a perfect book. John's perfect book too for salvation. You know,

and Genesis is brilliant for its history and its foundation. Romans is just that's a magnum opus. Yeah, unlike anything else that's ever been written, or ever will be written. Well, there you go, folks.

Go back and read Romans and probably dig into a few other things. Tanner, appreciate you coming in doing this. Well, thank you. And, uh, well, I think the next time you'll be on, unless something happens in the foreseeable future, will be our annual... Sweet Christmas?

Christmas. Oh, yeah, 100%. Love it. Yeah, I've marked it on the calendar. You don't know that, but I have. No, but not perfect. I'll be around. It's become the annual thing to do.

So for those working... Shout out to Troy Clark, because this is how this literally started. Not you coming on the podcast, but my first year of podcasting, the day that I was supposed to podcast fell on Christmas Day. Really? I wasn't going to do it. I was like, it's Christmas Day, nobody will watch. Yeah, yeah.

Or listen or whatever. And I'm like, it's Christmas. I'll just take that. And Troy Clark, long time. I think Troy's listened to everything. Shout out to Troy. And he texted me and said, I work Christmas Day. And I'd really appreciate it if you put something out because I'm going to be at work

and I'd love to just have something to flick on. I was like, oh, oh, okay, yeah, sure, we'll put something up. And that's slowly evolved over the course of 900 plus podcasts to now on Christmas Day. we started it, I think, two years ago. I think this will be the third one, but in 2025, Tanner and a Day. I can't say much about the future, but I do know that on Christmas Day,

you'll be listening to Tanner and a day, and that'll be a fun conversation. I'm sure we'll get into a few different things, but either way, thanks for being in here. And what did you think of the chair before I let you? I loved it. Fantastic chair. It's better than what I'm sitting in right now. It is so comfortable, and it's a perfect height,

you know, on what am I, 6'1-ish? and this is just love it. You could sit in here for hours. Six one. Yeah, I'm going to have problems with it, folks. My little legs, I'm going to be like, oh, man. Either way. Thanks again for doing this.

Thanks a bunch.