Shaun Newman Podcast - #918 - E.M. Burlingame

Episode Date: September 23, 2025

EM Burlingame is an author, green beret, and currently is a Senior Research Fellow at the National Foundation for Integrative Medicine where he founded and leads the Jason Dawson and Stewart McGurk Brain Health Research Fellowship.To watch the Full Cornerstone Forum: https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcastGet your voice heard: Text Shaun 587-217-8500Silver Gold Bull Links:Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/Email: [e-mail] Grahame: [phone]Bow Valley Credit UnionBitcoin: www.bowvalleycu.com/en/personal/investing-wealth/bitcoin-gatewayEmail: [e-mail] Use the code “SNP” on all ordersProphet River Links:Website: store.prophetriver.com/Email: [e-mail] Money SummitWebsite: ExpatMoneySummit.com

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All right, let's get on to that tale of the tape. Today's guest is an author, a former Green Beret, and currently is a senior research fellow at the National Foundation for Integrative Medicine. I'm talking about EM Burlingame. So buckle up, here we go. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast today. I'm joined by E.M. Burlingame. Sir, thanks for hopping on.

That's good to see you, Sean. Sorry, I couldn't make it last time. Well, I tell you what. I was texting with Matt as well here earlier this week. And I'm like, we have to get, you know, he came on that day and you had technical issues. And I'm like, okay, now he em's on. And I'm like, but the goal is to hopefully get you both on. And we'll work on that here, folks, you know, over the next couple weeks, see if we can't pull something off.

Either way, you know, I was gone to the Wii Unified Conference in Calgary. And I was telling you this a little bit before we started. So, you know, I get home and I'm like. catching up on things and you know people probably wonder like i wonder what what the stack of things for sean looks like when he doesn't pay attention to things for a bit it starts to grow you know i got a brand new book sitting on the on the table that a guest has sent me and i'm excited to read that but uh you know i flip open my computer and uh i start you know looking at things that have been sent to me one of them is one of your latest articles on on substack and it says listen closely this is how you start it

you who still cling to the illusion of nonviolent solutions, right? And I point to that statement directly because it's almost in tandem right before I watched Erica Church or Erica Kirk, sorry. It does mean church. She gives a speech at her husband's funeral or eulogy or I don't know what to call it. Folks, forgive me. And she says she forgives the person who shot. her husband. Here's what she said. I forgive him because it is what Christ did and what Charlie would do.

The answer to hate is not hate. The answer we know from the gospel is love, always love, love for enemies and love for those who persecute us. And then she went on. But I'm like, oh man, this is, I'm like, this is a lot. Anyways, EM, your thoughts on the idea, your opening line, listen closely, you who still cling to the illusion of nonviolent solutions. Yeah. So this is not. honestly actually meant as an indictment of Christianity unless it is one, right? Unless it holds. And this forgiveness and tolerance that's happened increasingly over the last, really over the last 30 years of going back a century plus has led to the place where children's genitals are being mutilated

and cut off, where our countries are being flooded with people who hate us and are murdering poor young refugee girls on the bus where in Europe, you know, thousands upon thousands, tens of thousands of women are being raped and the criminals are being led into this street, all under Christianity, all under quote unquote Christian countries. Now, is it Christians behind that? Absolutely not, right? And anybody who would think that it is, but it's this Christian tolerance and forgiveness. And my genuine concern right now is that while I respect very much a widow's regards for her faith and her beliefs,

is that a whole lot of people, millions of people, are going to use this as an excuse to just forgive them, for they know not what they do. I think that's in the Christian texts. And nothing will change. because I wrote a piece last night that just was hammering me when I was sitting here trying to go to bed and I got up and wrote it anyways. My concern is that in the Christian faith, martyrs are valued more than warriors, the Avengers, and that that's really, you know, this valuing of martyrdom over the Avengers. war and violence and killing and revenge all excused away through forgiveness right this is what is what lead has led to the martyrdom of millions is not the rapes is not the genital

mutilation the putting kids on drugs and hormones and the impoverishment of generations is that not martyrdom to some some ideals so i mean i have That's how it strikes me. It concerns me greatly. There are times where the only proper response is wrath. Now, do you hate? No, and I write about that quite a bit, right? You don't hate. Disgust and hate is what the resentfuls, the communist, fascist, whatever you want to call them, that, you know, it's what the resentfuls want is to get us into a place of hate and disgust because then we do atrocious things. Then we go too far. Then we lead what few, young men we have left to their slaughter. But wrath and ruin is very much in order. Because

under forgiveness is how over a century is how all of this has happened. In your mind, wrath and ruin. Explain this to me then. In the old ways, there's a whole lot of people need to die. And I don't think that's going to happen through the legal system. Look what the legal system's been doing. You're going to somehow turn around 40 years of these courts and districts. attorneys and judges throwing, you know, releasing violent criminals into the streets and ruling against people who defend themselves? See, I get, I respect, you know, very much that, you know, in a functioning state, you know, in a healthy functioning state, revenge, you know, not revenge, but, you know, the just meeting out of punishment should be at the level of the state. But all of this

stuff is happening because the state is not adhering to that virtually at any level anywhere, with some few exceptions. And even there, it's drug out so somebody who's done some atrocious things sits on death road for 40 years. Well, that's a lifespan, not so very long ago. And they all get away with all of this. So wrath and ruin is these people, a lot of people need to die. and not in some gussied up pampered up idea of well god's forgiven them and they're all in grace now no

well i can agree that um when you talk about judicial system certainly here in canada the road back i don't know the road back we're that one of the conversations at the we unify conference this past weekend i was sitting with two lawyers and we were talking you know they were trying to jump through the hoops of remaining professional, right? These are two women who have fought the good fight and continue to fight the good fight, I might add. And I sit there and I'm like, as they talk, though, they get to, but it'll probably be thrown out. And they're probably going to do this.

And they're probably going to do that. They're going to drag this on as long as they can. And so what is the means for regular people to get justice back? And tolerance, man. Tolerance kills, you know, I want to, I speak very bluntly and very directly, right? But I speak always with a very, very deep and profound sense of respect. Always. My whole life's been built around two things that I've tried to really hold on to as core principles, loyalty and respect.

So I speak very bluntly and directly. Toler weakness and cowardice masquerade as virtue far too often. And because of that, malevolent, you know, so I don't know if you know who the military historian theorist was von Klauswitz a couple hundred years ago. he's one of the great, you know, modern, you know, he's part of the reason the Prussians became so successful and militarily and even economically, et cetera. But von Klauswitz, and I paraphrase because it's in separate pieces, et cetera, but in essence what he said was that the inevitable result of civility as the norm is massive bloodshed. because if you can't say the hard things because of this requirement to be civil, what you wind up with is malevolence in everything and the only way to remedy it, whereas you could have done small targeted violence, surgical.

Now you have to have mad, broad spectrum, burn it all down kind of violence to remove the malevolence that snuck into everything under the guise of civility intolerance, forgiveness. How do you think Charlie Kirk's changed things? You know, I've always, I thought about a lot of people that day of, you know, like when I watched a video and then I had to stew on it and I got, you know, way too many texts, you know, wanting different things. And I was just like, I don't even know where to put this right now.

Your thoughts on how Charlie Kirk changes the trajectory of, you know, because there was a man who spoke to people about Christianity, about Jesus, about bringing them and arguing the sides of that, did it very respectful, but he debated everyone, right? So he was firm in his beliefs. And he went to where few want to go, and that's into the confrontation. And whether that was, you know, whether that was the kid or as I was just listening, you know, I've had different videos sent to me starting to break down how things don't make sense on the, the, the, actual narrative from the FBI and onwards. How does this change in your mind, the trajectory for the United States?

I think it's hard to know just yet, right? Because we're not, one, we're not operating in a vacuum and the enemy knows very well what they're doing. They are very intelligent, very capable, very embedded, right? There's an old saying that there are times only, your enemy knows you, that you don't even know yourself. And that's true because your enemy is always looking at you immensely closely to find an advantage to try and destroy you, use you and destroy you.

So I don't know exactly how this goes. I don't think any of us can. There is a bit of an awakening going on. I do believe that the oligarchs and elites have been shocked, truly. shocked. It was one thing for them to try and kill Trump. It's a whole different thing for them to go after the one young man who was teaching moderation, who was teaching young men that developing their reasoning skills, getting out of the emotional space, if, you know, having something to believe in, whether that's Christianity or other.

And being a firm moderate in the world, right? Be not afraid. That was a powerful statement. And I think we should mourn the loss of that. And we need to not that part of Charlie Kirk. We need to make sure we don't lose, right? Moderation, even in violence, moderation. Right?

But they knew, the enemy knew exactly what they were doing. they killed the moderate why because two sides one they need to do further demoralize young men and they need to demoralize young men and other young men that they can't demoralize they need to radicalize and the one man you know because they want to lead us all to this slaughter against russia or the is they want to kill all the native sons so they can finish their great program you know, the step seven of financialist kill chain where they, you know, take everything, the final great theft of the commons. So they need us all to go to a massive slaughter. They've openly said it. You know, they openly state they want population down around 600 million, et cetera. We should take people, when people talk about murder and genocide, we should probably take that serious.

They're not talking hyperbole, especially when you can demonstrate they're actively acting on it. So they need the young men either demoralized to stay out of it or to go down these insane pathways, such as the Patsy. And I do believe the young man is a Patsy, right? Because that whole little groups being used to feed disgust, right? Rage and disgust. And they want to radicalize the young men so that we go off like the Germans did in the late 1930s and 40s. And five to seven million of us, well, they want more than that. You think, I'm curious, young men being demoralized.

I'm curious about that because I'm like, I wonder if it doesn't have the opposite effect. Certainly for a chunk of the population, I'm sure they're demoralized. But I wonder if this doesn't create a resolve in younger men. Well, as I said, right, they want two things, right? The young men that can be demoralized because they're never going to be fighters, which is actually the greater portion of all populations. So one part portion, they want to demoralize. And there's two paths or two sides to demoralization.

One, they want the, you know, whatever, the normies or whatever to stay out of it and just get out of the way. And, you know, not get involved in fighting back. The other side of demoralization is the young men that have already been taken down the path of self-destruction. you know, young men who did all of the things they were told to do to earn status in this insane world, who in the process of doing that, you know, transgenderism and furries and, you know, LGBT, whatever, and all this other insanity, right, the woken stuff, they want those young men that have already destroyed themselves in that way to be demoralized so that they don't believe there's a path back.

through redemption back into the world of man specifically right so you know these young men and a lot of them are super smart unbelievably crazy because they drove themselves to it now they realized they did all these things to earn status and it was all a joke and all it did was destroy them and provide provide almost no path back to redemption to the respect of men so that's one side of demoralization. The other one is just to keep the normies out of it. Don't think you can do anything. And part of that is, you know, what is the response going to be of government? Are we all going to just forgive everybody? Or are we going to wrath and ruin? And we're just going to forgive everybody. Well, then there's a whole lot of young men that'll be like, well, what's the point?

What's the point of developing myself to such a capacity where if I ever respond to defend somebody, I'm going to end up in prison because nothing's changed. If I use what? Yeah, go ahead. Well, certainly things need to change. Like certainly from a government structure judicial system, the structures that govern us need to change. There are things in place there.

You know, I just come back to Canada all the time, right? Like you have people on trial right now that stood up to their government in a peaceful protest and they are putting the entire machine and the more they dragged them through the mud, I like to think the more it shows not only what they're capable of, but like what they're willing to do to peaceful people, let alone anyone who does an act of violence, but the people who do the acts of violence, as you've pointed out, you know, with the immigrant on the subway in, what was that? North Carolina? No, North Carolina, I think. Was it North Carolina? South Carolina. It was summer down.

Well, it was down there. Anyways, you know, like those people, you know, what's the story? Well, he had 14 convictions or whatever the number was and he was let out and over and all. Well, here in Canada, you know, we don't have Castle law, right? So a man breaks into a house with a crossbow. Guy protects his residence with a kitchen knife. And then the story comes out that he's, you know, taken off to custody. And over time, I'm sure he'll find his way out of that conviction. I'm almost positive of us.

financially broken. Broke. Not to mention his name run through the mud by media and everything else. So I think as these stories come out, it becomes more and more evident to more and more people, how broken the system is, which makes it ripe for change. Well, unfortunately,

what it does is it makes it ripe for revolution. People don't realize how deep this rot goes. How deep, you know, there is a reason. Saul and Lansky, cloward piven and those long before them focused on the judiciary there is a reason that english civilization began under a king who hung over 40 judges who were abusing their positions

alfred the great and the 800s hung over 80 or 40 judges that was a lot back then right that was the majority of the judges back then he hung them well now we've got it all over the english speaking world in every one of our country, you know, our core countries. It's across much of Europe, virtually all of Europe. And in parts of Europe, some parts of Europe, have been there much longer, more than a century. So how are we going to, how, and then you've got sheriffs and police chiefs and DAs and prosecutors and judges and you've got city council people and you've got local elites who all like it that way. That's a massive, massive power structure that is virtually impossible short of violence

to remove. And everybody's like, well, if we just vote harder, really? We've been voting for a long time. One has to wonder how valid that is. And I've done working countervoter fraud, et cetera, and got defunded for it back in 2000. 2019, 2020, right? So how legitimate is voting? There's astounding things coming out of the DNI, you know, out of Tulsi Gabbard's work and others right now about that. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. That's just a tiny, tiny fraction of it. But voter fraud has been going on at a massive scale for a very long time all the way back to prohibition, which is the, you know, early quarter of the last century. So that's one problem is fixing that. The other problem is the very entities that are necessary to fix the voter problem are the very same judiciary and legal systems that are themselves totally and absolutely corrupted. And it ain't all ideological and people thinking, oh, they, you know, the Epstein list, et cetera.

The sexual, you know, the compromise only works on about three to five percent of people. everybody else is compromised in other ways career progression judge shifts jobs recognition wealth you know all these other kinds of sophisticated ways that you're never going to be able to go well that guy's compromise we can get him out oh that guy or gal right so what you know the demoralization part is also designed to radicalize people you demoralize young men which they've been doing for 40 years since I was in school. And then what do you do? You flip the script from demoralization to radicalization.

And you can already see the threads of that in Twitter, allowing anti-s, you know, Jew hate. I don't even like the word anti-Semitism anymore. It's so corrupted in BS, right? But you know, Jew hate and it's all the Jews. Yeah, some of that's probably true. but so are a lot of our bad people doing bad shit too, right? And then you're seeing Nazi stuff and white love and white pride.

And there's a difference between being okay and loving and care. I love my English, Scottish, Norse people, right? But that's a very different thing than ethnic hatred against others or, you know, racial hatred against others. But you're already seeing the flips being, you know, the script being flipped. Yeah, from, from demoralization. to radicalization and then by the by if anybody wants to look at it it's exactly what brought the nazis into power this exact playbook was played out almost the exact same period of time one century ago

we've got to look at wymar germany and united kingdom and the u.s and partake canada you know the english speaking world over the last 20 years it almost exactly patterns off the wymar republic what comes next flip from demoralization and disgust to radicalization. And they're flooding our countries with people that they want us to kill. Remember, four, fifth, they want us to hate. They want us, well, not only to hate, they want us to kill them. They are sending us the refuse of the world so that, yes, we'll get into a place to disgust and hate,

and then we will slaughter in great numbers. And we'll probably kill 10 or 100 to 1. That's what we did in the G-E-W. We killed somewhere, I don't know, total, total casualties on our side, dead probably, I don't know the numbers exactly, but less than 20,000. We kill four to 11 million, you know, locals. They want us to do that, right? Because one, we kill the people they want dead, right? The undesirables.

Two, we die in great numbers, even if it's a nutritional war. and then the ones that survived, they can use the guilt of health, you know, that we lost control and we went to hate and we slaughtered, you know, we genocided on the scale never seen before. This is my concern that when you have, when you tell young men who are watching atrocities happen, that you forgive the people doing the atrocities, you are telling young men that there is only one option. Kill yourself, you know, give up, kill yourself or kill everybody else. Kill your way back. Kill the world back. And here's the thing. Young men, when they're angry, are unreal dangerous. Angry young men who don't believe there's anything left. There's no other

choice are unreal dangerous because they have the one only actual asset that's real. that all other assets, currencies, stocks, companies, everything. Every asset in the world is a derivative of male violence. Donald Trump, a lot of people put a ton of faith in this man to come in, and the wars and the border crisis. I'm sure there's, I'm missing like 50 things, right? I mean, they put a ton of faith. this man. Yeah. That he can get it done and can change this course of where you're talking about

headache. Your thoughts? I excuse me terribly sorry. No, no, your allergies. Um, I believe that Strauss and Howe were very right about how everything moves in generations. And the remaining few remaining silent generation and the boomer generation have to take world war three off the table and they have to end you know they have to conclude the fights of their generations right they need to wrap those up so we're not threatened with these you know previous generational fights but the fight over our young men and radicalized young radicalization of our young men massive genocide uh economic collapse, all of that is the fight of Gen X and older millennials. That's our generation's fight.

And it's just, we're just getting into it. Now, to your question, Trump and others, because he's just a representative of all, a class of oligarchs around primarily the West, but really around the world, they're doing everything they can for the older generations to take World War III and, you know, you know, total economic collapse and enslavement, you know, this globalist system, they're taking those off the table and they're doing an extraordinary job of that,

quite despite all the attempts of, you know, our enemies, you know, people, again, resentfuls, financialists, globalists, whatever you want to call. Globalists are just a front, by the way, but quite despite, you know, the city of London is out. Alex Kraner and Tom say, you know, the British, quite despite all the British not inconsiderable abilities to launch World War III and to bring about financial collapse and total theft of everything, there's a pretty good job being done of preventing that. But all that does is set up our

generations to take on the fight of our time, which is the future of our young men and thereby by our countries and our assets. So you think Trump's doing a good job? I think he's doing this. I think he and I think the oligarch, the responsibles, right, as I write about in the eternal war, I think they're doing an extraordinary job. I'm actually impressed. And that doesn't happen.

Not because of anything. I'm just jaded, right? So, but I'm actually really rather impressed. Just for me, like what impresses you about what Trump has done? Well, he has been able to not allow Ukraine and the Russian war to draw us into World War 3. He's allowed, he's, again, he and those, right, the oligards, he's just the front four. Not that he's not extraordinarily capable, right, or he wouldn't be out there in front, but,

you know, what the responsibles have done to take World War III off the table, again, Russia, great. What they're doing to take World War III off the table against Iran, great. What they're doing right now to take World War III off the table in Asia and Southeast Asia against China, pretty good. Still some more to do there, but they just really got started on that. They're isolating the U.S. financial system from the globalist, you know, the Eurodollar system as Schneider. and others talk about so well and, you know, and Tom and, you know, people know that better than I do. I'm really rather impressed about that. The way in which world leaders, you know, people assume they have way more power than they have

are being handled and dressed down and demonstrated in public, but, you know, politely and respectfully that you have no power and you do not get to dictate what happens in the world. world is impressive very impressive what's happening specifically here in the united states with the restoration of constitutionality through all these lawsuits right so what are they doing they they will do an executive order or some you know some some authoritative move some judge somewhere will do an injunction and it gets smacked down now within days constitutionally right legitimate solid constitutional That right there, just this restoration of constitutionality at the executive level, you know, at the federal level of the United States is an unbelievable thing.

And we're seeing echoes of it in the United Kingdom with what Graham Moore's doing and some others, which will have ramifications in Canada and Australia and New Zealand, somewhat South Africa. So I'm impressed. But that impression doesn't lead you to believe. that the demoralization of young men can end it's not their fight this is our generation's fight every generation you know there are generally two generations involved in a major fight and they're doing the silent and the boomers are doing all they can to fight their generational fight and I'm impressed

our generation the you know the Xers and the older millennials We're kind of taking on our fight. We're also kind of just getting into power and kind of just getting into our role and kind of just starting to cut through all the lies and deceptions that we raised with and grew up with. But our fight is just beginning. And it's going to last depending on whether we finally realize this, you know, what we're up against and what we're dealing with and our role and responsibilities, et cetera. Our fight's not going to be concluded until sometime towards the end of the next decade. if not the early part of decade after.

But don't you think, well, I don't know, maybe I'm wrong on this. Don't you think more of that generation is starting to pick up that mantle, or am I wrong on that thought? You mean the Xers and the millennials? Yes. Yeah, no, no, no, I think we are.

Right? That was one of the things that the silent and the boomers did with, you know, Trump's cabinet. They brought in Xers and older millennials and started to train him and teach him. and connect them and give them access to information.

And when all of the counter fights against them and the attempts to underhand attempts to remove them from office, et cetera, or to besmirch them or turn them against each other happen, the older generation said, no, no, we still got their back. That's extraordinary. It's a power transition that is happening. I completely agree. You know, well, I'm just, I'm,

Trying to think through a thought and I can't spit it out. So I'll switch over to a thing that I'd read this morning by Dave Calm. And he put out, and I assume you know who Dave Calm is, and he's been a guest on the show before multiple times. And he said, did the guys kill Charlie Kirk, yet I use the plural on purpose, have any clue what the response would be? I sure would have not imagined it.

We could end up in a bifurcation before Charlie's death and after Charlie's death. Is it possible they create the Renaissance of Christianity among the young? And Christianity, you know, like turn the other cheek, love thy enemy, all these things, although true from this side, I find it makes me more confrontational as well to stand up for what is true and right. And so if that is true, a renaissance of the young men, that would mean that more young. young men are going to find purpose or going to start to speak about that, do things, and when they confront evil, we'll call it out. And that is in its sense, in a sense, a way through this without mass violence. Or am I wrong in that train of thought? I just, to me,

so I started reading the Bible and found Christianity, yeah, and you know, all the peace, love, all that stuff is in there. There's a whole bunch in there too that draws a line and don't blow across the line. It doesn't say punch the guy in the face, but I assume if he's attacking my family, we all know my response is going to be. And then the judicial system is going to do what it's doing right now, and that is going to shed an even bigger light on how broken it is, which is going to probably amass more and more people that stand up to the system that is broken.

So do you think that the enemies who assassinate people all around the world, impoverished people, imprison people, commit violence quite readily? Yes. Right to the level of willingness to kill a former president, become a president, and kill presidents. Do you think they're going to just allow some revival to derail them? You think they won't use... No, they're going to try their damnedest to make sure it doesn't. To kill their way, to kill their way to remain in power, to lead all.

all of our young men into a place where they go and go too far and end up destroying themselves in the process and some great bloody bloodbath. Again, we need to stop thinking that, you know, that we are operating in a vacuum. And if we all just became stronger and better people, our enemies know us extraordinarily well. They've been manipulating us for centuries, for centuries. and they've killed entire populations of host nation men. How many British men are still around? They're war-fighting men.

Now they've got to finally expend the last English-speaking peoples, which is the young men of the five eyes in some great conflagration. They're not going to stop in trying to do that until they're destroyed and no longer have the capacity to even try to make it happen. And you think we're going to do that over some 30-year period? of time in the courts and legal you think they're going to give us that time um i just think they no they're going to to answer that no i think they're rushing and they're pushing as hard as they can but in their pushing they create things like charlie kirk and then they take charlie kirk out and you go

albeit is extremely sad and i think a lot of people mourn that but there's ramifications for your actions and the actions create something you know like COVID did they know the freedom convoy was going to happen did they like did they know it was going to play out in that way and what did that do to Canadians now there's a whole new group of people they're like no no we're not doing that anymore so do you think that the resentful is our enemies the British in this specific case and I don't mean the English speaking peoples but I mean the British occupiers do you think they haven't been through these revivals before you think they haven't they don't know how to derail them because they're counting on our good Christian

values one has to wonder they aren't the ones that promoted and sold those Christian valleys specifically to have levers and knobs to tweak and twist etc so yes a revival needs to Yes, young men need to, I've just published a book called the Modern Knights Guidebook, right? It's, you know, young men are the only real asset of land. Young men who will stand and fight physically for the land and the people of the land are the only real asset. And we cannot any longer waste and squander that asset, nor fail to help it develop itself. I'm fully for that. And we cannot get into a place of hate.

We cannot get into a place of disgust. There's a certain amount of disgust that's legitimate and right, but we can't get into a place of hate. The enemy is going to do absolutely everything in their power to create both of those, and they are extremely capable at it. And primarily what they will do is they will continue to work on all of this power infrastructure they've owned for centuries, quite literally, centuries. And they will work to demoralize young men through the use of courts and the judiciary and corrupted voting systems and everything else to give young men and the impoverishment of the continued impoverishment of the young, but they have no chance.

they get out of school with vast debts and have no chance if they go to school anymore, right, with no chance of, you know, ever building appreciating assets. They will continue to tweak and twist and push on all of that, plus doing all the disgust things and more in your face and, and more the fifth generation informational warfare, et cetera, to where young men just get into that demoralization position where they realize the whole thing's got a bit burned down and the only option is violence. So what do you see happening?

I don't know. I don't, you pick your time frame, five years, 2030? Is that, is that, is that a fair eight to pick?

I think it's sooner than, I think it really depends, right? It depends on what the responsible's oligarchs respond and how they actually, you know, you know, there was, I didn't watch the,

the, the, uh, honoring of Charlie Kirk yesterday. I respected immensely, but I didn't watch it. It's everybody else was watching it and they were going to tell me the good pieces anyways, right? I had things to do and have a child to raise.

Let's see what really comes out of it beyond statements and words and slogans. Let's see what comes out of it in action, real actions, really going after this British power structure, the resentfuls, the financialists, the let's see how or if any of that is put into real action that really not immediately, but in some time is going to impact young men's lives. I'm going to tell you another thing. People can come at me all they want, all right? Nietzsche talked about Christianity having a revival.

Nietzsche talked about it. Dostoevsky touched on it. They said there would be a revival in Christianity. You know, the enlightenment thinkers in humanity had killed God. It would go through this nihilist period, maybe a century, maybe more. And then there would be a revival of Christianity at some point, but it wouldn't hold. it would collapse and something else would emerge. And Joseph Campbell, in his own way, coming to this same awareness,

articulated the same thing in the Power of Myth series from the 80s. I don't know if you ever watched those. Brilliant series done in the year, I think, before he died. But Joseph Campbell said the humanity is moving to a fourth myth-based system. And this time, it's not God. and demons and all these it's the individual human that's responsible for the world and universe that they live in and that that process started with the romans you know that that primary myth transition started with the romans and those processes historically can take 2 000 to 4 000

years so yes i do believe there's going to you know i do believe that this resurgent in christianity is going to impact a lot of young men positively and young women hopefully even more so because that's where the real you know the real destruction has happened but i don't want there's going to be a large number of young men that don't connect with christianity that don't come to it large numbers and there is every chance that the christian revival particularly if it sticks around this forgive you know all this forgiveness stuff and non-rath stuff and thereby nothing really changes but we we become more virtuous more aware and more virtuous then there's a good chance that the christian revival will collapse and not too very long

and you will wind up with either a massive collapse of everything or a pretty big bloody fight that restores something that works i'm curious what do you what do you what do you you make you know like um if you if you watch christianity and and people talking about it right Tucker carlson yeah canis owens yeah john ryan you know uh even joe rogan has had more and more people on to discuss it what where does that stem from then in your mind it's harkening back to something give me one second it is a deep-seated need to find something that is moral and right that we can all hold on to. The problem is that when we look back with an unbiased, unconditioned eye,

we see that that past didn't actually exist. That there was never a time in human history where all this forgiveness stuff built societies or civilizations. Wrath protected it and did it. Now, tempered with understanding and forgiveness and you know, what would become Christian values and, et cetera. But, you know, most of the whole concepts and ideas of Christianity over the last thousand years or total nonsense, they're made up political arguments.

If you want to go back to original Christianity, which I think there's immense value in that, and we are seeing some of that, which is the call to the Orthodox world, you've got to go back to the first, second, and third century Christianity. And when you go back that far, I have. I've got the Orthodox study Bible over here. And I went to Christian schools, by the way. I went private Christian boarding schools. And so I'm not, and I'm not here to attack Christianity, but I'm also not a neophyte. Right. So I believe it's a heart, an attempt and desire, unconscious, but rising to a level of conscious to try and find something that has some moral rightness.

to it instead of all this moral relativism that's been fed into everything that's just destroying everything. But there's also in the majority of people this coinciding desire to not have to fight. To avoid confrontation. To avoid confrontation. To hand off responsibility for the violence that is the only currency and asset of a people to somebody else, to some superstructure, to some organization to some God, so as to not have to stand and physically defend. And unfortunately, in modern Christianity, I don't know, and early Christianity, the whole martyr, you know, the whole concept of martyrdom is very powerful and very strong. And yet it's filled with stories with men who stood up to tyranny. I think this Jesus fellow said something like I come not to bring

peace but a sword. I mean, read the Old Testament. I think people, Christians need to read the Old Testament more. It's a very different story and very different mythos and, you know, very different moral story than the New Testament. And even the Old New Testament kind of conflicts with itself in all kinds of places when it comes to these things. And that's the problem, right? The other problem is how many people read the original Greek and Aramese? that most of this stuff was written in. So how do you know that the text that you're reading are actually valid if you don't go back to the original source materials? The thing I've always argued with people is if you don't even start with what's available, how are you ever going to get to the original? Yeah, well, that's true too.

I mean, you can go, oh, you got to go back to this and this and this and this. I'm like, how will you just start? How would you just start? I won't disagree with that. Problem is, though, is if you start with materials that are biased, which is what later, you know, it's what informational warfare is all about, is constantly rewriting reality.

So that should somebody begin their journey, they're already biased, they're already conditioned to an interpretation, such that even when they do get back to base source documents, They interpret them in a way that's totally incorrect to the actual message of the documents themselves. Great book called Disinformation by General Pacheppa, who since passed away about disinformation and how this very thing was done, quote unquote, by the Soviets, although he came to work directly with the FBI, by the way, when he defected.

But there's a discussion, you know, the book, Disinformation is a great book. It does lay out how these things are done, et cetera. But many times the original message is heavily corrupted by the later interpretations of it, which are easily readily found, specifically easily readily found. So that when you, if and when you dig deep enough and you get back to the source material, you're already conditioned and how you're going to interpret it. Forgive me. I'm sitting here.

I'm like, this has gone real deep, real full. fast. You know, or maybe it's always been that for the entire show. When you look at historical documents, then, the Bible, do I understand correctly? You believe there's no God then? I didn't say that. Where did anybody get anything from that? Nope. Just my stupid question then. I don't know. It does seem to be. I don't know if there's one or there's gods. You know, I come from Norse traditions. Yes, again, I went to Christian schools,

but I resonate with Norse traditions far more than I do Christianity, although I see it and I respect it. And we co-evolved for at least the last 2,000 years. So I don't, studying physics and everything that I've studied across my life does seem to be far bit more powerful forces out there. Godlike kind of forces. Is there one or many? I don't know. Seems to be more than one. But I'm immortal. How the hell would I know? Right? I need to live my life as for me personally. I need to live my life doing what I can do every day, every minute of the day, both internally to, you know, to shape myself into a person that doesn't pursue.

appetites, you know, incorrectly that doesn't, you know, allow thoughts that are just not real or untrue, you know, lies to come out, you know, to rise to the position where they appear to be truth. I need to fight that fight every day. That's not about gods. That's not about demons and devils and good versus evil. No, it's just me trying to be a good man, best I know how. And I do look to some of these old teachings, including some of the Christianity,

stuff, which I think is astounding to try, you know, as examples and models of, you know, and that's why I just wrote the book of Modern Knights Guidebook, not as a Christian text and not as a pagan text, et cetera, but, you know, as a more neutral guideline. Well, maybe, maybe I'll, I'll give a little more added. When, sorry, when you, when you talk about the Bible as a historical text, my brain just goes to what Christians believe. It's the actual word of God. So if you call it a historical text, that's where the question.

of you don't believe there's a God. Sorry. Those are two fundamentally different things. The text itself, particularly the ones that at least I grew up in, most of it's English-speaking people, the King James Version. Right. Look at the history of the King James Version writing and the translations and things that were changed.

That was by men. So the text themselves and some deity or deities, those are two separate conversations. We'd have to, you know, in order for the question you asked to directly translate to the questioning of the text, you would have to imply that humans who wrote these things, and we know it was humans, it wasn't the Ananaki, etc., right, or the aliens, we would have to believe that those humans had godlike purity and capacities themselves in order to just directly translate, you know, like a fax machine. when that's just not true. So do I question the text? Absolutely. I studied history very closely every day, right? Every day for decades.

Yes, I question the text. Does it mean that there are not deeper truths in there and realities in there that are constant and consistent and whole and that these do reflect that there is some greater deity and angels and all that other stuff? I don't know. I suspect that they do. I suspect that these things are there, that they are, you know, that. And I don't, I'm not a theologian. I did think about it seriously, actually. When I was young, I spent many years studying comparative religions, many years when I was young. But I'm no theologian.

I'm not going to get into some theological pissing contest. Like somebody asked me something the other day. or somebody brought up in a discussion, you know, it's a battle between good and evil. And I'm like, what the hell am I supposed to do with that? I mean, really, practically, do I gunfight evil? Do I, you know what I mean? It's like I'm a man. I live in the world of man, you know, in the human world.

I have to engage with and interact with humans and human systems, you know, human requirements, its nature, the environment, and sustenance. And all of that itself is this vastly complex thing. To me, being distracted by arguments are good and evil and all of this is just, it's a way for us to not get involved in the nitty gritty, nuanced fights that we got to take on every day as human beings. Now, whether there's some great forces behind it and all that, I'm just immortal. I don't know.

Seems to be. I wrote a book about it called The Eternal War. used to be forces. You can study single cell communities and bacteria and, you know, viruses, etc. You see this stuff. It's like, okay, well, our virus is evil? Is bacteria evil? Or is it, or is it that there is this parasitizing force in the universe? And it can do, you know, if we don't check it and we don't, you know, address it and we don't recognize it, it can do some malevolent things. But does it mean that it's, you know, some demons or, or the devil or, or, or, or, you know, malevolent aliens, as

you know, some of these people say, which could be. Maybe those things are there. Well, I find it interesting because I know along my journey, I would say there's demons. I would say there is a malevolent force. I put a name to it. And I would, I guess in my summarization, I would say to look at it, how do you fight it?

Well, that's where Jesus comes in. Now, I've also thought, you know, if you look at the world just from a man's point of view, there is other forces enacting on us, and it's just part of the equation. You still have to not actually get involved. That's a dangerous thing. That has been, I would argue, Canada for the last how many years. You probably have a better summarization of how many years that's been. To sit on the sidelines and not get involved is a very dangerous.

thing to do. And now we're reaping, you know, the repercussions of being apathetic to what is happening and going on. And things are playing out that way. As I wrote about in the Eternal War, and I've thought these things, I've studied these things for decades. And again, I started in religions when I was young because that's what you did. I was in Christian schools. I was at boarding school. I've, right? So I started there. They're just. does seem to be a destructive force in the very fabric of the universe at every scale. And out of that destructive force and the need to survive it at every scale, structures emerge. And over time, these structures, societies, civilizations, cultures, belief systems, religions, etc.,

they themselves get so corrupted that they no longer have any real substantive value. in the current fight against this destructive force. You know, an old system, an old idea, you know, so for me to try and use a software program for 40 years ago to try and solve current computational problems is ludicrous. But in many ways, it's exactly what we're trying to do by bringing forward these old, now there's still value in that old software program and maybe it's still portions

of it still run on some old systems. and maybe they're running off cobald or something. And there's still some value, and there is certainly logic value in there. But again, try to use a software program for 40 years ago to try and solve current computational requirements or problems is just not functional. And it's the same with societal systems and belief systems.

We live in a world now that is ludicrously complex, vastly more complex than our ancestors even imagined. I'm thinking about that because my, my initial reactions, I don't know. I actually don't know about this. I think, okay, so I don't necessarily, well, at the level of the individual, I don't think we're any more complex than we've ever been.

I think at the level of, you know, 150 or smaller communities, we're not any more complex than we've ever been in. And maybe some larger number than that, maybe it's some thousands. But beyond and above and beyond that, we have become vastly more sophisticated. vastly more complex. But even I will say this, even at the level of the individual, some friends of mine, not friends, but colleagues and I kind of worked this out some years ago. The amount of

decision, the amount of information and the amount of decisions that even the common person today has to take in and do on a single day is on the order of magnitude of what most human beings wouldn't accomplish in their entire lives. Not so very long. ago, even leaders. So just the amount of information that's just being bombarding, you know, and they're increasing that all the time and, you know, et cetera. And the amount of action, more importantly, the amount of decisions we have to make, you know, the sub-conscious and conscious decisions is more than most human beings have had to make in an entire year previously. We are doing that every day. So just that complex.

alone, that neural exhaustion, that, you know, neurophysiological exhaustion, that amount of decision-making, information process and decision-making for all these complex things, like, and half of which don't even work, like trying to get tech support for the gas company or something, or some regulatory framework related to my parking out here because there's some regulation, There's just so much system structure process stuff that we all have to deal with every day. How much energy do we have left available to think about one another and engage with one another?

And not just on a individual basis, but hell on a community basis and a society basis. So, you know, there is a certain amount of these higher ideas. ideal things that I just don't have time to think about. And I don't necessarily have to, as long as I'm trying to navigate my way through the day, being the best man that I can. Yes, getting back to the things that truly matter, which is your actions each day and how you act and how you treat one another and on and on. Correct.

Yes. I have a thought for you. And I'm curious your thoughts on it, obviously. you talked about how different words and messages through the King James and others, if you were to go back, how they were interpreted by man and by therefore, you know, like it's slowly that the messaging has got, um, yes, moved. Now, in our world today, there's been different definitions in the last couple of years changed by government. to like, you know, what is X and they've changed it, right? And to think that's never happened over time is a ridiculous thought.

Obviously it is. What I come back to, speaking directly to the Bible, is when I read it, just the act of reading it. Things won't make sense, which will force you to dig deeper into it, not less. And then you are allowed to go back through and see how it was interpreted over time and therefore get more clarification on what was trying to be said. So by actually picking up a book, a text, and digging into it, that act will take you closer to where they were coming from than where they're trying to steer us. I don't know that's necessarily true.

I do very much respect and agree with the a premise, though, right, that you pick it up and you try to understand. And there's two specifically what you're articulating, right? There's a great Bible called the Orthodox Study Bible. I recommend it for everybody because it lays out the current language. And then it articulates also in the same right there, same page. You don't have to go to a reference, et cetera. It articulates the difference between that and, you know, other variants of the Bible. and sometimes if there's been a substantive change at some point in time.

And for those who want to study the Bible and understand very much what you're saying, which is, I fundamentally agree, that should be what everybody should do and how they should approach it. The Orthodox study Bible, I think, is probably the best one I've seen for that kind of study. Give me a second. What I would also do is I would highly recommend a book called I think it's called the Religion of the Apostles, First Century Christianity. Both of these are available on Amazon.

But the first century Christianity book, to me, was profound. I only came across it in the last couple of years. It was profound because, you know, I, as I said, I went to Christian schools, did all of that, Catholic, Catholic, Seventh-day Adventist. When we got over to Idaho, you know, it was Mormons all around. We never quite went down that pathway, but you know, I studied on it, et cetera. It's fairly young. I also studied not as a religion, but is just a way of trying to understand complex

information and Buddhism from the time I was very young. And then I left, you know, all of that and just like there's too much contradiction and, and, well, I'll keep that to myself, but some things you keep to yourself. But when I read the religion of the apostles, which is about Christianity, and they laid out and people can go look, right? It's not suppositions. You can go trace down. And, okay, very well done. It brought together.

And, you know, I went down science and technology and all this stuff. Okay. That book on first century Christianity and what was really taught in the time of Christ in the century afterwards, really had a profound effect to me even today in that it put a lot of different things from different belief systems together and it helped me realize that our ancestors in the early days of Christianity were way more you know that the Christianity that's been sold to us since really the 700s starting to 300s but really the 700s when there was a schism that was starting to happen and

formalized in 1054 and you know is the 1054 schism etc etc but that the original Christianity was actually really rich and very profound and has been dramatically watered down twisted and contorted ever since but that first century Christianity in the time of Christ and shortly thereafter is profound and I honor and respect it very much well I I'm always interested in reading things. I opened up. I got a brand new book sitting right beside me. And the guests coming on here shortly,

not today, folks, but soon. And I'm like, I got to get through this because it's about young men. And it's about giving them options to do something different than the traditional path of graduate from school, go to college, get married, have kids. And although I agree with a bunch of that, right?

this is something to put in the hearts a young man a sense of adventure and a sense of purpose and a sense of, I think, giving them hope in a hopeless world. And so I'm very excited to read that. And so when you bring up books, I'm like, oh, wow, if anybody's, you know, been listening this show, I do my best to get through a ton of content as I continue to, you know, bring different guests on and wrestle with these large discussions. I come back to where we started, you know, all the way. The non-violent solutions.

I don't have an answer for that. I believe that we have to be strong in our beliefs, and we have to be strong in protecting the vulnerable. And fathers might not have to be strong and protecting my family. I just don't know where that heads in the next five years. That's why I'm always curious what you're saying and what you're writing about, because EM has had, you know, you've, you've been. a guest on the show. You've been a guest on other shows. And we've discussed these things

at nausea, not at nauseam. Not these things. Not these things, but we've discussed, and I've heard lots of different people talk about, it is inevitable that society is going to have civil war or these very violent interactions. And if they continue this way where the judicial system, here in Canada, keeps letting criminals out, and keeps penalizing your everyday common citizen for just protecting what is his. While, I mean, there was a video, I don't know if you saw this. There's a man who raped a three-year-old.

It unnerves me immensely. Went into, broken in somebody's house, raped a three-year-old, goes to jail, and a mob shows up to the prison demanding, they give them to us. Right now, obviously they don't give them to them, but I'm like, do we see less or more of that coming in the days ahead more more i would agree i think what's

happening and i've thought this for a very long time but i didn't know why right i suspect and it might not go this way but i suspect what we're watching is the death of liberal democracy the last dying gasp of liberal democracy where the last legitimate arguments for self-rule and liberal democracy are getting burned up in this very thing in this very internal rotten corruption that the system that you cannot fix with the system that fostered it creates it shelters it etc it's it's like using a plague victim to cure place leg victims. So maybe, maybe there is the will and fortitude to let God do forgiveness, but not man, and we do the hard things necessary to preserve self-rule, to clean it up, fix it, plug the holes in it, you know, the gaps in constitutionality in the legal system, etc. that were used to corrupt it, or it collapses under its own malevolvely. weight in which you wind up with is a return to feudalism.

It's openly talked about. We openly talked about it in Silicon Valley 25 years ago. As we were watching, you know, we were thinking through where was all of this technical innovation, access to information specifically and then capabilities, where was it leading to? And the conversation that kept coming back is feudalism. And then it's a matter of, okay, well, what is it? Is it bureaucratic feudalism? you know, a socialist, communist,

you know, fascist feudalism, or is it something more akin to classical feudalism? And if it's classical feudalism, well, then what does that minorial estate look like? How does it function? How does it secure itself and its people and its assets? So, and I don't know the exact answer to that, but my suspicion is that we are watching the end of liberal democracy

and why? Because it is riddled right through with this concept and idea that we need to forgive everybody and leave it up to the state to punish them. Well, how's that been going? And how exactly we're going to fix that by becoming immoral, righteous people who are all Christian again? Unless you remove these people who will not be removed without force, it's a 40 to 60 year process. And it's a 40 to 60 year process. And it's probably won't happen because they're not going to give you that kind of time. They're living very well off of this abusive system all over. So to me, the focus for me now, and very much to what you're articulating, is the young men because they are the asset of the land. The physical violence capacities of young men are the only real asset. So, okay, how do we healthfully, correctly,

develop that capacity in young men, well, to do that, there's a whole lot of other things that young men need to learn in order to control that violence, particularly well-developed capacities for violence. And when I look back, historically, there are not too long,

there are some very solid models for that. And one of them is knighthood and the path to knighthood and the journey to knighthood and the responsibilities of knighthood. But I don't, you know, I'm not talking about the later chivalric order stuff, which I think mostly was artificial and fake to make weaker people out to appear to be more virtuous and strong. And I think that was a big downfall. But, you know, I wrote the book of Modern Knights guidebook and just released it recently

about what are the skills that young men need to develop. and the marshal is only one piece, one small piece. So regardless of whether we, you know, and there's different traditions in the Norse tradition. And, you know, so I don't mean knighthood as a Christian thing, right, as a church-oriented thing or a state-oriented thing. I think of, sorry to hop in. My son right now is reading Jocko's book, Way of the Warrior Kid. And in the war, you know, I was like, you're reading, what did you pick? that up like you know where that came from i i assume it came from one of my uh one of his uncles

and uh he i go can i read it with you know you want to read it with me i'm like yeah i want to really respect jaco and in like chapter five it's all the different um warrior traditions correct i was going to say the ethos of each warrior tradition you have the navy seals you have the rangers you have the knights you have there's about five of them in a row and I'm like what a wild thing in the best possible way to be in a kid's book because it shows how you come yeah a warrior in a garden for lack of a better way of putting it very interesting I haven't seen jaco's book it only came to my awareness the other day after I've written published mine there's a section in the support section of the Knight's Guide, which is the different special operations units, right, current

special operations units, not just here, but in, you know, across the English-speaking world. And, you know, somewhat the differences between them, et cetera. So I, you know, back to your, you know, I believe very firmly, and it's interesting because it seems we're coming to it from different ways, is that we are recognizing that the only real asset of a land, and a people is the physical violence of men willing to stand and fight for what is right to do the hard violent thing to make sure that this malevolent rot doesn't get into everything and destroy everything that's the and that all these artificial wealth structures and systems and fame and all this other stuff is all dependent on that and that we need as a people if we are

to be a well wealthy healthy whole people we need to be a well we need to to recognize and remember that all of that is dependent upon one currency and that is the violence of men, good men, right? Good healthy men. And then how they keep it under control and how they maintain it and manage it and how they know when to use it and when not to use it and what measure to use it, et cetera. So I, yeah, I was thinking as you're speaking, the only word that bothers me. And it's not, I don't mean it bothers me in the sense that I don't agree with it. It's just violence. In old knighthood, violence, I feel like maybe it was popularized.

Maybe you can, it was like a sword and you're walking out and you're probably killing people. Right. Like, and then if you fast forward to today's violence, it is the war of words and maybe it's always been that. It is the war of physical violence happening when weak men stand by and do nothing. And so violence for me is like, well, I bring up the warrior in the garden. It's like being able to do and know you can do awful things. And having that ability to control that. Peterson talks about it quite a lot, as do others.

And I'm wondering where the violence goes to in society, right? like when I hear violence, the image I see is like bloodshed everywhere. Yes. And exactly what I'm talking about. And I'm like, I don't know if we get there. And maybe we do. I don't know. That's why.

We're already there on the resentful's enemy side. We just don't want to accept it. We don't want to accept it. We think we can outword that. We can use words to counter that. It's only spreading and getting worse. How many tens of thousands? hundreds of thousands of young women have been physically violated how many young children beaten

mutilated you know destroyed okay here's the problem that we have in modern societies we have become too in love with words words are made up symbols they have no reality other than what we give them now i want to use this as okay anybody who's a student at all of fighting or war, not just fight, you know, war, but physical individual fighting, knows that you do not meet an enemy on the battlefield of their choosing

or at the time of their choosing. If you have any way to do it. That is the art of war. You do not do that because they have just an unreal advantage. When you're in the world of words, those who do not have the physical direct, physical violence are choosing the battlefield of their choice, words and word systems and structures, and the battlefield of their and the timing of their choosing the thing that they said that now

you have to respond to with words. It is war. It is fighting. And the only way you cut through these vast, unbelievable, complex word structure. structures is physical violence. Now, whether you want to get there or not, it doesn't matter. At a certain point, the magic of words to be, you know, this surreality breaks down and you wind, and the enemy is already doing it. Again, how many being murdered, how many are being physically raped, how many, you know, are being beaten in, you know, in our own schools and cities, et cetera. Meanwhile, we're all running around thinking we're going to undo that with words. The enemy, you know, malevolent people resentfuls, they understand us extraordinarily well.

And they know how reticent we are to use physical violence because we know what, you know, we unlike they have discussed at our own actions, not just others actions, but discussed in our own actions. We have conscience. They don't. And this has been done in studies after study, by the way. They don't have discussed mechanisms. And many of them don't even have conscious, you know, moral compass conscious. And the few that do is this really twisted, warped thing. They know that. They know exactly what they're doing.

And they know that the only way for it to stop is physical violence against them. So they're going to keep playing with words and contorting words and giving us the illusion that we're winning with words for as long as they can. But at some point, it all gets reset with, you know, the judges are going to stay in their judges. The DAs are going to get reelected. The prosecutors are going to stay in their jobs. The sheriff's going to continue in his, you know, all these things are going to continue. you. We don't stop this rot at this level with words. Now, words are important and legality is important. And, and, you know, before the founding fathers of this country decided to sign their name

to the Declaration of Independence, which is a declaration of physical war, violence, physical violence. They spent 20-some-odd years trying to do all the right things and all the courts and to get the right So all that's got to happen, right? All the words, all of it got it. But at some point, there's its signatures of the Declaration of Independence and it goes to physical violence. But it's got to be controlled, it's got to be constrained and it's got to be done for the right reasons and because there is no other redress. That's what we're living right now. Yes. Yes, I believe that's exactly true. Right? The violence portion, everything you said, about the other side and I agreed.

They just said about the founding fathers the United States for 20 years. They tried. Yes. And people, as I keep bringing on this show, I'm finding out more and more, have been trying. Yes. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. This hasn't been like

two days. It hasn't been since COVID. It's been a long longer than that. It's about 40 years. E.M. Every time you come on, appreciate it, because, you know, we get Thank you. You know, I just appreciate it.

There's a lot of thoughts in here today that I got to sit and stew on for a bit. And that's a good, that's a sign of a good podcast. I'm sure you've annoyed some people. I'm sure I've annoyed some people. And that also is a sign of a good podcast because if we aren't making people think, then I don't know what we're talking about. Appreciate you coming on and doing this. And, well, you know, you've rattled off a whole bunch of things for people to maybe go check out and think on.

So I'll leave it there. but appreciate you coming on. Thank you.