Shaun Newman Podcast - #926 - Sylvain Charlebois

Episode Date: October 7, 2025

Sylvain Charlebois, dubbed "The Food Professor," is a leading Canadian expert in food systems, serving as a professor of food distribution and policy at Dalhousie University and Senior Director of its Agri-Food Analytics Lab. With over 775 peer-reviewed articles, he’s a globally recognized scholar in food supply chains, safety, and sustainability.Freedom of expression on campus study link:https://aristotlefoundation.org/study/freedom-of-expression-on-campus-a-survey-of-students-perceptions-of-free-speech-at-canadian-universities/Tickets for the Prairie Rising Forum:https://prairierisingforum.ca/To watch the Full Cornerstone Forum: https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcastGet your voice heard: Text Shaun 587-217-8500Silver Gold Bull Links:Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/Email: [e-mail] Grahame: [phone]Bow Valley Credit UnionBitcoin: www.bowvalleycu.com/en/personal/investing-wealth/bitcoin-gatewayEmail: [e-mail] Use the code “SNP” on all ordersProphet River Links:Website: store.prophetriver.com/Email: [e-mail] Money SummitWebsite: ExpatMoneySummit.com

This is Viva Fry. I'm Dr. Peter McCullough. This is Tom Lomago. This is Chuck Pradnik. This is Alex Krenner. Hey, this is Brad Wall. This is J.P. Sears. Hi, this is Frank Peretti.

This is Tammy Peterson. This is Danielle Smith. This is James Lindsay. Hey, this is Brett Kessel, and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks. Well, I tell you what, I hope everybody's doing okay on your side of things. I don't know if I threw my back out or what. But I tell you what, as I'm recording this, my, uh,

Lower back is killing me. So it's been a bang-up start to this week on the old, on this side of things. So I am down and out right now. Well, I guess I'm sitting right now, but certainly it has been a rough, rough day of a little bit of back pain. So that's fun. That's a new one. Is this 40? Is this what happens?

As you close it on 40? Tell me, like, I haven't had anything like this. and now all of a sudden this happens, I'm like, come on, I'm not drinking, feel like I'm exercising enough, and whammo. Anyways, my lower back is very sore. There's the personal note to the podcast. Good morning all. Happy Tuesday. Silver and gold, are you been paying attention to the prices on that?

Holy dana, they are going up and up and up. And if you're looking to buy anything precious metal, down in the show notes, of course, you can contact Graham. He can answer any of the questions you have around buying, selling, storing, or using your retirement accounts to invest in precious metals. You can go to silvergoldbull.ca or dot com, and just remember to reference the Sean Newman podcast. Profit River, okay, we got some things coming up with Profit River. October 25th is their customer appreciation date. It sounds like Terry Bryant, Alberta's Chief Firearms Officer, is going to be in town,

as well as Rod Giltaca, both at Lloyd Minster, both in Lloyd Minster at Profit River's customer Appreciation Day. And then October 26th, we were shooting guns with Gil Taka, Pradnik, Sinclair, at the Lloyd Minster and District Fish and Game Association Indoor Range. And the reason why that comes up under profit is Profit River is supplying the ammo for that. So if you're interested in shooting some guns, shoot me a text. If you're around for the customer appreciation day, October 25th, make sure to stop in and say hello.

Any purchases, make sure to use the coupon code SNP. That gets you in for monthly draws. and just remember to visit Profitriver.com. They are the major retailers of firearms, optics, and accessories. They serve all of Canada. Rect Tech Power Products for over 20 years. Rectec Power Products has been committed to excellence in the power sports industry. Stop in.

If you're heading in for, I don't know, Profit Rivers Customer Appreciation Day, you should maybe stop at Rectek. They're open Monday through Saturday, and their showroom has it all. From Lund fishing boats to Album, Alberta aluminum-built trailers, quads, side by sides, lawnmores, golf carts, the list goes on, folks. And I guess as the fall season is going along, you could be in, I don't know, the mode for a snowmobile. It's all in there.

Stop in today or visit them at rectech power products.com. When you're busy and growing a business trying to stay on top of the ever-changing world of information tech, well, it can be overwhelming to say the least. And the Planetcom wants to take care of that for you, leaving you to do your thing. while they do theirs. For over 22 years, Planetcom has been here to boost your productivity by proactively managing every aspect of your IT infrastructure,

both in the house and in the cloud, it ensures you're not too tangled up in technology to get anything done. If you want to see their handiwork, go to the Sean Newman Podcast.com and see what they created. They've been good on the security end of it as well. As you know, I lost a website, and it is now a Chinese gambling website,

so that's been fun. For everything, Planetcom, go to planetcom.com.com. And they can get all your IT infrastructure squared away. Some notes coming up. October 14th here in Lloydminster, the Health Charter Tour, the world's greatest health show is in town. Sean Buckley, as at the Legacy Center, 7 p.m.

For their full tour, go to nhppa.org backslash health charter tour. They're going all across Canada to Ottawa here in the month of October. October 18th, the Prairie Rising Forum, is going to be in Regina, Saskatchewan. I'll be hosting that. I've been shoulder-tapped to host that. I'm pretty excited. The guest list is pretty good.

Martin Armstrong, Tom Marazzo, Wayne Peters, you know, Tiana Truth Seeker, Bryce Wade. The list goes on. Brett Olin's going to be in attendance. It should be a fun day. Tickets, like I say, are on sale until October 12th. Just go down the show notes. You can find that.

uh... SMP Christmas party December 20th dueling pianos back by popular demand if you're interested in the table shoot me a text would love to have you there the MASH spiel

coming January 17th 2026th that's at Kalmarjist east of Ladoque you can get tickets at showpass.com backslash mash spiel and yeah that's just a fun weekend

for the mashup community so if you're interested in a little curling and maybe a few laughs, that would be one for you. Quick Dick McDick is live in Lashburn, November 22nd. All the funds raised there are going to a new Lashburn playground for the elementary school. And of course, the big one I announced yesterday, or I've been chitter-chattering about here over the last week, is the Cornerstone Forum returns March 28th at the Westing Calgary Airport. Tickets going on sale.

Soon, I tell you what, throwing my back out has not helped that along. That has slowed me up a little bit on this side. So we've been having some fun. Hopefully you're having a little bit of fun out there as well. If you're listening or watching on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, Rumble, X, make sure to subscribe. Make sure to leave a review. If you're enjoying the show, make sure to share with a friend. Now let's get on to that tale of the tape. Today's guest is wiling known as the food professor. He's a prominent Canadian academic researcher and media commentator specializing in food systems. I'm talking about Sylvan Charlebo. So buckle up. Here we go. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast today i'm joined by sylvan charlaboa the food the food professor hello sean thanks for uh coming back on sir

yeah no absolutely my pleasure uh always looking forward to our chats yes well you you you uh you find yourself in some interesting places and when i'm following along i'm like that's a that's an interesting thought so the the thing the thing that stuck out to me where i want to begin today is you Here's the tweet you put out September 23rd. I spoke with a group of graduate students and faculty today. The consensus in the room was clear. They believe food companies shouldn't be allowed to make a profit and meat consumption should be banned or at least heavily discouraged, made for a lively debate.

I don't. I changed many minds, but time well spent. Walk me through this. So in fairness, the faculty I was in was environmental sciences. at the University of Montreal. So obviously when I walked in there, and I actually love debates. I really enjoy.

When I'm invited on campus to talk to students and faculty, I accept the invitation all the time. And I know at times things will get a little more intellectually hostile because most people wouldn't agree with what I'm saying. But what was disturbing during the session is that as I was talking, I mean, five minutes in, I actually, I could see in their faces that they were actually hearing, hearing things I was saying for the first time ever. I mean, you could tell in their faces, what?

People who exist actually think that way? That's impossible. And so you can feel that you had the group think phenomena happening amongst themselves. They share the same data. They share the same thought. They're all like-minded, obviously, which is fine. But, I mean, it really, there was some element of resistance towards what I was saying in terms of, you know, protein democracy. I mean, I'm of the belief that I believe that consumers should have a choice.

You know, it's important that people actually have choices and freedom is particularly important to me as a citizen as an academic. And it's important for consumers to decide, not governments or anyone else, especially not academia. And so they were of the mind that perhaps we should ban meat consumption. Okay, that's a view. But you could tell that they were really passionate. And the fact that I actually told them that I eat meat. And by the way, in the group, there was about 32 people in the room and about 20 online. and two of them actually ate meat of that group.

So obviously eating meat is certainly not something. I would say that the two people who admitted that they were eating meat that had a lot of courage because they actually had to live with them. They have to work with these people. And so, but I do think that it's symptomatic to a much broader problem on campuses. I mean, people will work with people who think the same. And frankly, when you look at politics on campuses, 95% are like-minded to the left, which is really a natural way of seeing campuses these days. There is a bit of a bias.

And so if you think, if you believe in enterprises, if you believe in businesses, if you believe in market failures, really, if you understand the value. the value and the purpose of businesses, you're clearly outnumbered on campuses, clearly. And I've accepted that. I've been doing this for 25 years, so I'm kind of used to it. Well, I was telling you before we started, I had two gentlemen on talking about a recent, you know, study poll. I butcher the word that they probably use. Just, you know, about whether or not people felt safe to share their opinion.

And even what they pointed was shocking was even the moderates who kind of fall, you know, right in the middle, didn't feel comfortable sharing their thoughts in university campuses. So when you talk about they're only being too many. Well, what's what's ironic, Sean, right now is that campuses are absolutely known for creating safe places from a DEI perspective. Yes. diversity equity inclusion and so we've we've actually created governance around around these issues quite a bit very costly governance i might add which is fine i mean absolutely i think it's important for everyone to feel safe but when it comes to thought when it comes to thought it's the same at the cbc you know the the famous anchor that actually left in toronto a few months ago

that's that was his message i mean when actually when he decided to leave the cbc he could have said the same thing about academia i mean there is no diversity of thought on campuses and if you dare say something that may not fit well with the narrative you're going to be punished but punishment in academia is very subtle it's not necessarily we're going to beat you up or we're going to fail you they cancel you they literally cancel you you just they just pretend you don't exist because these people are all tenured they they actually work with each other for until the end of time. So it's not like you can get fired or leave or go to somewhere else. Most professors wouldn't be able to get a job outside of academia. I mean, I'm being very honest here.

I've worked outside of academia for 10 years before becoming an academic. And I know that the world outside of academia is pretty darn tough and competitive. Most academics wouldn't survive. And they know that. So they create this cocoon, this artificial cocoon inside academia. so they can feel safe. And the one way to do that is to make sure they're surrounded by people who think like them. That's really a big problem right now in academia. This was out in Quebec that you met with these students and faculty, correct?

Yep. Yep, in Montreal, yeah. Is this isolated to Quebec? Because I can hear some listeners out west going, those dirty Quebecers, this is their problem. And they're so far removed from, I don't know, common sense. and a whole bunch of things, you've been all over the country. Is this,

you know, like certainly the train of thinking where you're like, you know, I don't feel safe. I think the last two gentlemen I just had on made it very clear this is across Canada when it comes to feeling safe to voice your opinion. This DEI thing is exactly like you said.

If you have a diversity of thought, that's where the danger comes in. But when it comes to food consumption, is this isolated to one school in Quebec or have you seen this elsewhere? No, so just to give you your listeners an idea of who I am, so I started my career in Saskatchewan, actually. So I did seven years.

I actually started my career in Saskatchewan, was there for seven years, I really enjoyed it. Transferred over to Guelph in Ontario, was there for seven years, and I've been a Dow for 10 years approximately. But I've also been a visiting scholar in Austria, in China, in the U.S.

I'm back in the US next week as well at Purdue University. So I've talked to a lot of different students and interacted with many faculties around the world. And this is not a Montreal thing. Absolutely not. I've seen the same thing elsewhere in Canada because, you know, when you think about it, PhDs, many of them, especially social scientists, they want to become social scientists to fix issues. to fix problems, understanding them. They want to understand problems, but at some point,

they feel empowered to fix problems themselves. And many of them go as far as saying, you know what? We're going to save the world from itself. The world is going in the wrong direction, whether it's climate change, the economy, anything. They make it a cause. They become intellectual advocates.

They don't know that they are advocates, but they are. They don't know that they are. our advocate is because the system actually grants them authority to speak as intellectuals that are who are balance but they're not they're incredibly biased and everyone's bias but they're incredibly biased but that bias is actually being institutionalized and it's not just in Montreal it's everywhere and that's and that's why we're seeing presence of universities deans being appointed that do not resist this.

And if you do resist as a dean, as a president, you will get punished. It means that you're discriminatory and you will be accused of harassment. That's as far, and of course you'll be seen as a bully. That's really what goes on on campuses. So faculty who actually decide who gets to become dean and president will appoint people that will

allow them to speak out without any retribution. That's the academic system. You know, if I can go back to just people wanting to know who you are, I guess I jump right into it because you've been on the show before, but I just looked it up quick. It's been a while. It doesn't feel like a while, Sylvan, because... What's the last time we spoke?

So the last episode where it was like me and you one-on-one was back on episode 351 to give you an idea. We're on to 9-26. now. So it is, it has been a long time since we've had a solo. But you've been on some of the live coverage shows. You've been on a few different things. So I feel like it hasn't been that long. Like I don't know. That's that feels odd. But December 2nd, 2022 was when you were last on one on one like this. So I guess it has been a stretch. So if people want to go back and listen to the first time you've been on the podcast, episode 3.51. Now, the fact that this is so widespread, I just feel like it's, when

you talk about it being a cocoon it is a cocoon in universities because i don't get the sense from the everyday person they never want to eat meat again like i i don't see that at all like i just don't and maybe that's my own cocoon i don't know but i'm like i don't i don't walk around and get in arguments all the time with people going let's take the carbon tax and climate change okay this is this is a perfect case study of how academia is being weaponized uh to support a certain narrative pushed by Ottawa. So we're all Canadians and and the carbon tax was was basically supported by by a humongous intellectual machine. Stephen Gilbo is not an idiot. He was the Minister of Environment, but he knew to make the carbon tax popular and inevitable and a must to deal with climate change.

he needed academia to validate many of the things that he was trying to do. And he spent billions. I saw it. He spent billions of dollars into academia to get hundreds of academics to support his ideas. Through the Smart Prosperity Institute in Ottawa, through the Climate Change Institute also, that was actually based out of, Bob Cajun, Ontario, which if people don't know what Bob Cajun is, it's actually in the middle of of cottage country. So checks of $50 million check was sent to Bob Cajun to support this

Institute, which is really a shell. The address is on Spadion Street in Toronto. And if you go there, there's just nothing. There's nobody there. All that money was spent to get Canadians to think that In order to solve climate change, as if you can solve it, okay? In order to solve climate change, we need to tax people to death with the carbon tax policy from Farmgate to plate. That's exactly. So academia is a disciple to what Ottawa is trying to do. Now, I'm not saying that under the conservatives, it wouldn't have happened, but that's exactly what has happened since 2015. Because I've, you know, before during the Harper years, I would say that probably I saw some of that, but not to the extent of what I saw with the liberals.

It was just out of control. We might disagree. I might call him an idiot. And I just might add in he's a clever idiot, right? I mean, you don't have to say that. I could say that. I'm sitting out here watching all the things we're doing. I'm trying to be as objective as possible.

No, I know. I know. I appreciate your point of view. I just, to me, you know, one of the things I've seen out of the, you know, one of the things I've seen out of. this liberal government is how much money they put into these ideas of saving the world. And, and, you know, okay, climate change, sure. This idea of meat consumption, whether or not we need that, right, is just, those are strange ideas to me. Like, oh, they are.

I'm just like, that doesn't, that actually doesn't make any sense. And yet, when you talk about the amount of money spent on it to reinforce it, that is, not surprising, but unnerving. You know, like, it's just very unnerving that that is the direction our government has taken, even though I've watched it and witnessed it. I just look at you and I see a guy that's kind of boots on the ground. I don't know if that's the right way to, you're constantly out there talking to people and getting into rooms that maybe some of us don't get into

to have like a, to see that look on the face of like, they don't even realize people think like this. That's, that to me is, is wild. Well, my job, I mean, I try to, I try to stay honest. As an academic, I'm, I'm pretty self-aware that I'm spoiled. And I have a, I make a pretty good living. And I could make a good living doing nothing, really. Just teach, publish a couple of papers a year. And that's it.

But it's just, I'm paid by taxpayers here. I need to be honest. And businesses keep me honest. I actually meet just this week. I was in Toronto meeting with CEOs. Why? Because they tell me things. They tell me things and they tell me exactly what's hurting their business,

what policy is hurting their business, and what's helping. And I, of course, a lot of things I hear I can disclose, but it fuels my work. It fuels our work as a lab. And so everything we do at the lab is not only for, policymakers but it's for businesses as well because I'm I believe I firmly believe that what makes Canada so great as a country is our businesses our food companies are farmers, processors, distributors, retailers, restaurants, you name it the entire ecosystem, food ecosystem

is is incredibly important and no one they're all voiceless they don't have a voice so they They come to me. They come to me and says, Sylvain, we need your help. And so I try to help as much as I can. But I mean, I'm just one. We're just a lab. And it's been it's been incredibly tough to battle it out with not only adversaries politically, but with academics. I mean, whenever I actually go out with a paper, I get to publish in a prestigious journal, like high ranking journal, I get clogged. Robert by colleagues, colleagues on campus saying, Sylvainzal boy is a, he's rogue, he doesn't know what he's talking about. They actually destroy my methodology without recognizing some of my limitations. And they basically spin all the work in a way

that it's discredited. And I don't do that to them. So I expect them not to do it to me, but they do it because they believe that the right is evil. And, you know, I don't want to make reference to Charlie Kiergen, what happened was the unfortunate thing that happened to him, but it's hard not to. I mean, seriously, that's the problem with the left.

The left will go after reputations, we'll go after people and we'll see them as evil who need to be destroyed. Those voices need to be destroyed. Whereas on the right, I'm, you know, I, I try to respect. other point of views and i'm not not i'm not i'm not out there to destroy them to discredit them they have a point of view like i did at the university of montreal i i stood up i i talked to people i clearly they didn't agree with me but i respected them i respected their point of view that's really what happens they may not feel the same towards me they probably feel i shouldn't

exist and that is a problem that's a scary problem it's a scary problem of course it is Yeah. How can you possibly have a debate when the person on the other side think... You shouldn't exist. Get out of here. Like, what? Seriously. If you can, you know, a debate can only happen if both respects each other.

And both believes that the other point of view makes their own point of view even more. Like, you want the other side to push you so you can actually work on a solid argument to make it even stronger. I need the left. I need my colleagues to push me to argue even better, more effectively my thoughts. That's what debating is all about. They don't see it that way. How dare you actually believe that the carbon tax is a bad idea? Like, are you against the planet?

You want the planet to be destroyed? That's how they think. They think that way. Same as the bi-Canadian situation or the anti-Money, American sentiment right now. If you criticize the elbows up campaign or anything related to patriotism in Canada, you don't like you hate Canada. You're labeled as someone who actually hates your country. How is that possible? Shouldn't be, shouldn't it be the opposite? If you're criticizing people that are pushing the elbows up campaign, isn't that because you actually

care about Canada? I would say so. Yeah, well, I guess in the last month and change, I've come to realize you're not, you're not debate, and I've probably known this for some time, but you're not debating statistics and like reality. And, you know, like, well, here, here's what the numbers are saying. That doesn't make any sense. You're debating this higher calling, this ideology of like, the planet will burn if we don't stop eating meat, driving cars. I don't know. You can rattle off probably 50 other things.

I'm not even touching on. And so they just, to me, when I see it, it's just like, nope, not interested in your stats. We already got the big stat. And we're going to die here in five years. Or if you have stats, if you have stats, it's skewed and it's wrong. Yeah, but that's the ideology, the rationale. No, no, no, that can't be right. And I don't want to go look into it.

And I don't know, I have a hard time understanding that viewpoint at times, why. they're so ideologically locked in that they they will not move because it's it's if you if you go out and just start it can shatter your worldview and their worldview looks like yeah we're destroying the world that yep you know almost full stop but you can add in how we're destroying the world but overall it's like if we don't do this we're all going to burn a horrible death you know and as an academic, I mean, I've been, I've been wrong actually before. Not often, not often, but I've been wrong. You know, for example, the foreign workers program that we're talking about right now, I've always, I'm against the minimum wage. I've always been against the minimum wage. I actually

think that the minimum wage actually destroys jobs. I've always believed that. But the foreign worker programmed makes me doubt about my position on the minimum wage, because we're paying we're paying people a certain amount and we're getting we're basically encouraging restaurant operators and businesses to recruit internationally and now what we have here in Canada is a crop of of young Canadians desperately looking for jobs and so so I do question some of the things that I've thought over the last 25 years and some of it I'm still pretty, solid and I'm comfortable with on the minimum wage maybe maybe you can enlighten me today yeah with the temporary foreign workers my understanding is businesses get subsidies by

going through there so that they can cover their costs against the minimum wage right or maybe I'm oversimplifying that right if it's I don't know minimum wage is 23 dollars I'm just you can fill in the facts here in two seconds and they go man I don't know if we're forward that. If we bring in a temporary foreign worker, we get government subsidies and actually it covers a whole bunch of that. So instead of it being 23 and once again, these aren't factual numbers, folks, Sullivan probably has them. It actually lowers it to 15 or something because the government is going to add in a whole bunch of things we wouldn't normally get with just a Canadian citizen. Am I wrong in that train of thought? The policy itself was was flawed, but it made me

think about how much we're paying these people. The market, I mean, like if you could look at Alberta, for example, Alberta is where the minimum wages is the lowest, but most people aren't paying a minimum wage because there's wealth. Wealth will actually increase salaries. I've always believed that. But the problem right now is that we're seeing a lot of companies, and even universities depend on international students, depend on international labor to support what they're doing. And I do think that there's probably some limitations there that should be implemented.

I'm not saying that we should stop recruiting internationally. But to go back to our discussion about academia, you know, a part of me, so right now, as you know, a lot of universities are in financial diaspora. straights, right? A lot of the industries are losing money right now because they can't recruit internationally as much as they used to. And so my own university is running a deficit of $16 million. McGill had to fire, had to let go, 250 people in the last couple of months. Most industries are losing money this year because of that. Because it got international insurance were like heroin

to institutions. They needed that money to You fund all sorts of pet projects they had, including DEI, by the way. Yes. But now the well is dry, forcing universities to think differently about whatever they're doing. There's a part of me that actually likes this. Why? Because all of a sudden, we're going to start seeing universities being better managed. They're going to be more responsible and more transparent.

Hopefully. I'm not because like in Ontario for example only two universities are making money this year to UFT and McMaster that's it everyone else is losing money so that's going to force academia to rethink how they operate I think and it's going to make them hopefully more fiscally responsible instead of just funding hiring someone for this hiring someone for that just because it looks good It clicks boxes. We need to be done with clicking boxes. We need to focus on what we should be doing, training people so they can get good jobs for the marketplace.

Yeah, I don't disagree with that. When you talk about international students being heroin, I think that's, they built their own problem. So I used to be Dean, right? So when, when, when, when, uh, with international students, what was really the, the one thing that most people don't know is that we charge double tuition to international students. That double tuition stayed central. It didn't go to faculty. Facultys were delivering programs to the international students. They never got a cent. So central administrations really got to spend a lot of money on a bunch of stuff that faculties couldn't care less about. And that's why. many institutions and of course with what we discussed earlier seeing faculties or professors appointing deans and presidents that won't resist anything well guess what happened you gave a lot of money to presidents so they were able to look good it was not about making a difference in in the economy

for example it was about looking good looking responsible You know, clicking all the boxes. That's what really mattered for for central administrations for many, many years. They never really focused on actual important metrics like, are institutions actually making our economy grow? Are we trained in the proper people for the economy? Are we listening to businesses in terms of what they need in terms of talent? Talent management. You mentioned the term talent management on campuses.

people will look at you, what are you talking about? Businesses don't know how to solve problems. Businesses are the problem. Why would we listen to them? That's what you would hear on campuses. That's as backwards. All businesses do is solve problems. Yes.

But you say that on campuses and people will look at you like you're evil. And then they cancel you. Yeah. It's beautiful. This is therapeutic, Sean. I love it. Well, I'm just, this is a big problem. Like, this is probably a monstrous problem.

I mean, I've been trying to, like, what will it take to fix this? I mean, so. Well, I mean, nobody moves from a place of comfort. So as long as the heroin is just pumping in and they got tons of money and life is great, nothing changes. And then, you know, just look at, I look at things like, just go back. in time, you know, when you have publicly traded companies and you put Dylan Mulvaney on a Bud Light can. It doesn't matter if you love or hate Dylan Mulvaney, a brand of Bud Light doing that,

they saw the repercussions. I think a Victoria's Secret and some of the choices they made. And they just look at their stock plummet. It's like, well, money talks. Boom. They change right away. Now, university, I would hope would be the same way as their heroin dries up and they're like, you know, oh, crap, we got to change things. But. It's not like a Bud Light or Anheiser, Bush or any of those. With the top 15 schools in the country, including Dalh, Dalhousie. So what's happening right now is that you got the U-15 going to the province saying, we need more money.

And so and that's when. And now the province is going to be like, you're right. You do need more money. That's right. Some of them will challenge presidents, but that's really. And I do think at some point, and I'm being incredibly harsh here towards the system, but I do think that right sizing is long overdue for universities. The future is in colleges.

Colleges are actually training the people that the market actually needs. Not universities. Well, universities should continue to exist for the research, of course. But I do think that in Canada we have too many universities for the population. know we have. I honestly Nova Scotia, my home province, we have 11 universities for a million people. How is that sustainable? I mean, Saskatchewan is a good model because they have, well, two. That's it. And the rule, when it comes to funding, rules are pretty clear in Saskatchew. I used to be associate dean and dean in Saskatchewan. It was pretty clear. But in some province,

businesses, industries have gotten fat. They're mismanage. There's just no leadership, really. The leadership is very weak, and they're not able or willing to make really tough decisions in terms of cutting programs or looking at developing new programs that actually make sense of the marketplace. Man, I'm like, okay.

I wasn't Guelph when they actually tried to actually. cut the women's studies program women's studies i think the enrollment was like five okay i don't remember exactly the exact number but uh i mean at senate it got so political like woman studies okay me too all that stuff and so yeah it was never canceled there's always someone something and comes in a way preventing universities to make tough decisions. But you know why? Because universities never closed. There are no crises, real crisis impacting universities.

All crises you see on campus are self-inflicted, like lockouts and strikes and things like that. They can't go bankrupt. Businesses can go bankrupt. And that's why you see swift decisions and they have to actually make quick decisions to survive. So in your mind, seeing the problem growing not only in Canada, but as you pointed out earlier, like all across the globe with some of the thoughts going on in universities, you've had lots

of time to think about this. Have you come up to any like, man, maybe that could happen? Or is it just, you know, you got to continue to go in and debate and try and change minds and hope that things course correct? Well, you know, I think what needs to happen, of course, two things. One, the climate has to become much more hostile towards universities. So whether it's revenues being impacted, like we're seeing with international students, for example, forcing institutions to think differently about how they manage programs, how they manage faculty and things like that.

research, et cetera. Because right now, I can tell you, if you want grants from Ottawa, you got, you need, you need Yes, you need to check out certain boxes. Acronyms like LGBTQ, sustainability has to be all over the place. I mean, there's, there's a language and that's research shouldn't be that way. Research should be, should be about discoveries and understanding. you should be forced to fit your work in a mold. That's what's happening right now.

People need to know this. Tri-Council is exactly that. You have to fit in a mold. If you do not fit in a mold, you will not get grants. And we're talking millions of dollars. I'm part of two multi-institutional grants worth millions of dollars, and I still fail to see the value in any of the stuff that we're doing. We're just basically amplifying things that we were already doing with more money

and we're traveling a little bit more. How does that make sense to taxpayers? I don't know. So that's one thing. The other issue, of course, is transparency. People, Canadians, taxpayers need to know what actually is going on on campuses. Kids go to school, faculty like me, We need to tell the story. We need to say to people exactly what's going on. Because 95% of faculty members, of professors, agree what's going on. They have this sense of entitlement. They feel that they're there to save the world, remember? So how dare you actually challenge anything you do? My hope is in the student body. Students are smart people.

They're not biased. They go in with the intention of getting a student. in education and sometimes the institution actually fails them. They need to say it and need to feel protected. So set up on budsmen, making sure, making sure that the environment is safe for students. That's the big challenge instead of making everything safe for faculty alone. It is safe for faculty. I can tell you, except perhaps. Unless you talk out against it.

Or if you're a white guy. I mean, I'm like, right. I mean, right now, I mean, my own institution is advertising new positions. And it's clearly, it's clearly mentioned preference will be given to candidates from the LGBTQ community, African Canadians, blah, blah, blah. I couldn't get the job I have today if I were to apply for my own job right now. And I'm one of the most sighted scholars in the world in my field. In the world.

So this isn't getting better anytime soon. No, but I do. I mean, when I teach, I mean, I try to make a difference one class at a time. Sure. I try to create a safe environment from my students. But of course, they're influenced by other classes they take. So I'm up against that.

And frankly, I mean, some of them are absolutely, they know, not all of them, but of course, some students are, I'd say not brainwashed, but they're influenced by other faculties who will tell them that, you know, Shalabois is wrong. And that's fine. But to me, it's not a matter of being wrong or right. It's a matter about, it's a matter of understanding. It takes some time to understand all points of use. To me, that's the most important thing. And you make your own mind. Critical thinking is absolutely undermined at universities.

And my job as a faculty is to get students to think. If you're, if you think that, for example, if you think that we should tax food, If you think that we should regulate food retail prices, great. Let's talk about it. Let's debate about it. Let's actually let's talk about how the world would look like with a public grocer. Like a lot of people now think that we should, Canada should have its own grocer. Like, forgive me.

I haven't. I don't know who these people are. But just so I'm clear. But seriously. But we should come out with a, instead of a Canadian postal service, a Canadian grocer. A Crown Corporation.

It comes up. Do they understand that anything the government touches and runs is in the toilet right now? Listen, Sean, we have FCC. Farm Credit Canada, which is based out of Regina, Saskatchewan, is a Crown Corporation. that it reports into the ag minister okay it's actually making money it's making money okay looks good but here's the thing here's the story that people don't hear fcc undermines our own banks

competes with our banks and actually offers incredibly low rates our government now why and not only that i mean fccc farm crack cana grants loans gives loans to dairy farmers within supply freaking management like why why are we actually giving that business to banks and get fccc to take on more risk and support other programs or projects or other farms or anything else no so it gets politicized i mean that that's That's my point of view. I've been very critical to FCC, but I'm against Crown corporations for anything, but people are addicted to them. They want them.

Why do students or faculty or people that I obviously do not talk to believe food companies shouldn't be allowed to make a profit? Because it's, well, for them, they, for them, so their starting point is that food is a right. Okay. Food is a right. That's their starting point. But if you go down that train of thought,

then energy companies who supply heat to houses or anything like that that becomes a right should never make any profit. And it should just be like, nope, we might as just like Canada, the government, control every last one of them, create crown corporations, and make $0 off of it, which I don't even know how that train of thinking goes. but if you do that to one industry, then you'll slowly do that to all, won't you? I agree, absolutely. And so, look, just to be clear here, I do not think this is a good idea.

No, no, no, no. No, the question was why they think. But I think the starting point for them, and often what I find when I hear students coming in with very strong ideologies is that they don't, they don't, they see one issue in isolation. Okay. They look at one issue and they try to find a quick fix for it. And they say, you know what? This is what we need to do. But to your point, Sean, about other sectors, other sectors will arguably be impacted by a policy like that. Of course. Of course. But I think that a lot of students come in and say, listen, my problem is food affordability. And frankly, I think we all should not go to school. hungry. I think we should make sure that everyone actually gets fed. Okay, fine. And how do we do that? Okay. So you and I would probably agree in saying, well, let's work on our economy. Let's grow economy because a prosperous economy will likely reduce the level of poverty. That's, I'm going on a limb here. That's a strange idea.

That's a strange idea. But some people are saying, well, the state has a a role to play. So this is the left and the right. So a lot of people believe that the state should solve all of the problems that we have. I do not agree with that. I think governments, whenever a government or governments stay out of the way, that's when things work better. However, at times you want the state to remain involved for a variety of different reasons, trades, regulations. You know, oversight. I, you know, I've worked with the CFIA over the years and they do good work.

I mean, I think a lot of businesses do need the CFIA to do certain things. But the CFIA is actually overreaching on a lot of other different things too. And this, you, you are full of lots between the ears, right? Like, I mean, then the best boss boy. Like, it's just like, it's almost just frustrating because I like to me, but John, it's it's so easy. I mean, don't fall into the same trap as some of my colleagues on campuses. Some of my, many of my colleagues on campus, most colleagues on my on campuses have decided,

you know what, it's too much work. It's too much work to debate with people who disagree with me. It's just too much work. And they may actually prove me wrong. Why bother? I'm old. I don't have the energy. I've published. I'm revered by my students. I'm revered by the Royal Society of Canada. I've received many medals and awards. Why the heck would I actually argue with someone who disagrees with it? It's work. It's work, John. It feels like, it feels like we

see the symptoms. And so we go address the symptoms. That's right. Instead of like, well, what maybe is at the root cause of that? Can we maybe get down to why the symptoms are happening? I know that's a novel idea and try and focus on like, here's where it's stemming from. Let's go talk about that problem. But that doesn't seem to be it. But you have to appreciate, Sean, that there is some, some interpretation. I mean, a lot of people will interpret certain scenarios in many different ways. And I think you need to respect that. I mean, I and yes. I can respect that. But, But when you shout down, call down, anyone who speaks opposite of that, that is, that's no longer like, you know, and we're seeing more of that.

Right. And I can respect that you have an idea. Yeah. But your idea only holds water if you debate said idea. Otherwise, that idea is a bunch of baloney. Like, I mean, honestly, if you can't debate your idea out and have people push against it and make it better, then what is that? That's not a solid idea.

This afternoon, I'm off to Ottawa, right? I'm going to be on stage talking to the Fisheries Council of Canada. I've been asked to talk about the future of food and what's going on with consumers. And by the way, Sylvain, could you not talk about supply management, please? Yeah. That's what's going on. The government. The government is asking me.

The government is censoring me. Yep. It happened. I don't even know if I have anything to say to this. I'm like, I'm just telling you the truth. I know telling you exactly what goes on. People hire me to go on stage so that I can tell them exactly what's going on.

They know. Yes. That I'm pretty honest. Okay. But I'm censored a lot. And, you know, I think it happened once about 10, 15 years ago where I went on stage. So the province. of Quebec, actually, I had to, I don't use PowerPoints. They forced me to use PowerPoints because

they wanted to know what the hell I'm going to say, right? So I send them PowerPoints. They change everything. They change, oh, so we should be talking about that, should be talking about that. And then I said, no problem. That's great. Great idea. Awesome. So I go on stage. I put them a clicker on the podium and I started to talk without PowerPoints. And I said what was on my mind. I was never hired again by the province of Quebec. And I was the ministry of agriculture. Yeah.

This is what I'm up against as an academic. Yeah, but this is what we're all up against, right? Like, I mean... Well, you know now, I mean, you know that a lot of the things that you get in the media, a lot of the things that you get from governments is incredibly filtered for sure. Sure. Yeah. Every time I see a report on television or I see an expert being quoted in a newspaper article, it's on purpose is design. There's a reason why they picked that person to say a certain, to make a certain comment. I see that now. It's been 25 years. I can. And when people call me, I know exactly why they're calling me. I don't have to guess. that's what people are fed so when they go on to social media

they think that everyone agrees with them but they don't and if you don't agree with the person some people will actually revert to insults and stuff like that but some people will stay quiet and on campuses well

you don't dare you just stay quiet I'm public so I know that my colleagues will see my material. I write a lot. I write op-eds for post media for La Price in Montreal. And I know that they're reading my stuff and they hate it with a passion.

They disagree with it. They won't tell me to just cancel me. It's the easiest thing to do. Do you see any, okay, let's see if we can't end this on a bit of a high note here. Do you see any parts of the country, any, universities or college campuses or wherever that you see like a bit of hope like you're like you know what i've had a couple of instances where i've been wherever well i mean i teach it i teach in the u.s and uh so i taught at texas an m in the fall and i'm back at peru in uh and by the way i mean

peru i'd say that there are the top three ag schools in in the u.s is cornell peru perdu and Texas A&M. So when you're invited to speak on those campuses, it's because you've done some work. You know, you're. Yeah. And when I talk to the students, and it's not just students, by the way, it's executives, John Deere, McDonald's.

I mean, people actually working. So I'm flowing in to teach to these people. I see a lot of common sense. And of course, I see students, and I teach to them as well, graduate, undergraduate. They all dress up. They're all disciplined. When they present in class, they're in a suit. Imagine, Sean.

Do you remember those days when students actually wore a suit? Now on campuses, they wore, they wear hoodies. My hope is to see more rigor, more professionalism on campuses. Right now, you even see profs teaching hoodies. Profs. I wear a suit. Sometimes with a tie, sometimes without a tie. In 2025, I think I'm the only one left.

Even the dean. Our president, Adal, skatesboards to work. How is that professional? And she broke her harm. And everyone actually... Can't even ride a skateboard the right way. And everyone felt bad. Oh, my God, Kim.

You hurt your... Of course, you're skateboarding to work and you're 50 years old. Of course you're going to hurt yourself. You know, it's just, it's a lot. There's a lot of that going on. And I'm just hoping. So I try to show. I mean, hope you don't build things.

I mean, I'm like, we can hope. But the truth of the matter is you're teaching in the States. There's a reason for that, right? Like there's probably a very good reason for that. And yet, you fight the good fight. have a lot of money. Sure. But they also value certain things.

But also I do think that, you know, in, in, in the, I do feel in the United States and which is ironic because in Canada, we, a lot of Canadians actually feel morally superior to the United States. They actually feel that they're suppressed. We're better. And we're better. I, that's not what I'm seeing. I see, I see the opposite.

You can't speak up in Canada. In the United States, people will debate you. And we've talked about Trump in the U.S. I did talk about Trump in Texas, and a lot of people, you know, love him to death. And they know that I don't like, I don't appreciate some of his policies. But they respect me and I respect them.

Sir, thanks for coming on. I don't, am I missing anything? I'm just like, this has been, reminds me when I have Chris Sims on way back in the day and she'd come on and she rattled things off in like three minutes and I'd be like, I gotta go digest some of this, you know? Like I understand universities

and some of the things going on there, but when you're coming on and just, I'm like, you've hammered at home today. And I don't know. Like if there's something we've missed, So, man,

just let me know because I'm open to carrying on. But at the same time, I'm like, man, alive, you've thrown a lot this morning. And I was, you know,

I was concerned about one. And now you're like, no, no, this is like, you're sitting in Saskatchewan, it's there. You're in Alberta?

Oh, it's there. You sit in where you think you have the greatest spot ever. Students don't think that. Like, or faculty certainly doesn't think that. No. And it's all that it's legitimized by institutions, governments. And so we're up against a lot. Absolutely.

But I mean, like your podcast, my podcast, I think there is a chance for us to tell a different story. Yeah, until C8 comes in and then, you know, or whatever version they put and then they look at C-Val and they go, no, you're not talking this way. Because, I mean, you talk about how they slowly make life difficult on

someone who speaks against the narrative or the norm or the social ideology that's being pushed. And it's like, well, I mean, you can just watch it. It's just, you can say it's slowly coming or quickly coming, but they're trying to find a way to silence the dissident. And I never thought of myself as a dissident, but more and more, that's the way I'm going

to be labeled and pushed. And here in Canada, at least, it just looks like that is coming. I don't know if it's a, it's not a foregone conclusion by any stretch. I don't want to give up anything, but it certainly seems like it's coming. Your listeners need to understand that when you do a job like mine, there's a, there's a price to pay. I mean, if people go to my Wikipedia page, they'll notice that I was accused of a Raspin in 2018. I was accused of academic misconduct in 2020 and 2022.

The institution will actually go after me for a variety of reasons. Every single case ended up with an apology. Yeah. So they make life tough for people. who are not necessarily like-minded. No, for certain for people who are definitely a lot like-minded. So if you're out there not saying the things

that we're hearing on campus, you're evil who need to destroy you, you need to destroy your reputation. And so when I was accused of harassment in 2018, the first thing a faculty member who didn't like what I was doing went to the CBC. And that's how it got public.

Because typically those cases don't get public. But because I'm on the right, I deserve to be punished and I deserve to see my career end. That's how they think. Yeah. So when I was telling you earlier, I shouldn't exist. For you, at least for more, where I look at it, because when you talk about going to the CBC and trying to publicly shame you, I look at that. And I'm like, who is this guy? We should, we should probably bring him on because there's something that they don't like.

So they'll care about accusations. And as you know, once you're accused, you are done. But they don't really pay attention to the apologies. It's not important. So, I mean, every single time I was accused of something, it ended up with an institutional apology, a letter, but that never gets published. Appreciate you coming on and doing this.

I promise we won't make it, you know, three years out until you come back on. anytime, John. If anybody's wanting to follow you on X, it's food professor. That's all they've got to search out and they can find all your travels and adventures and some of the things you're talking about. It's always fascinating to see where you're at the next time. But appreciate you coming on and talking a bit about this.

And while until the next time. All right. Take care.