Shaun Newman Podcast - #943 - Sam Cooper

Episode Date: October 31, 2025

Sam Cooper is a Canadian investigative journalist and bestselling author best known for exposing Chinese Communist Party influence operations, fentanyl trafficking, and money laundering in North America. A University of Toronto graduate with a journalism degree from Langara College, he rose from local Vancouver papers to senior correspondent at Global News, where his 2019 casino laundering series triggered the Cullen Commission. His 2021 book Wilful Blindness detailed elite capture and transnational crime, drawing on RCMP, CSIS, and DEA sources. He founded The Bureau on Substack, now a leading independent outlet on corruption and national security.Tickets to Cornerstone Forum 26’: https://www.showpass.com/cornerstone26/Tickets to the Mashspiel:https://www.showpass.com/mashspiel/Silver Gold Bull Links:Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/Email: [e-mail] Grahame: [phone]Bow Valley Credit UnionBitcoin: www.bowvalleycu.com/en/personal/investing-wealth/bitcoin-gatewayEmail: [e-mail] Use the code “SNP” on all ordersProphet River Links:Website: store.prophetriver.com/Email: [e-mail] your voice heard: Text Shaun 587-217-8500

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make sure to subscribe, make sure to leave a review. Make sure to share with a friend. All right, let's get on to that tale of the tape. Today's guest is a Canadian investigative journalist and best-selling author. I'm talking about Sam Cooper. So buckle up, here we go. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast today. I'm joined by Sam Cooper.

Sam, thanks for hopping on. It's great to be back with you. Yeah, it's been a few probably months, folks. Sam, you are, I think, a guy that most people fall along with some of your news coverage, your breaking stories, different things like that. You recently testified in Ottawa. Maybe you could just start there. we could walk through some of that.

Yeah, I mean, first of all, like I'm, I feel quite rewarded that, you know, after leaving corporate media and starting the Bureau over two years ago, I'm up to over 30,000 subscribers now. And I'm being asked to testify based on my reporting at the Bureau in Parliament, which is indicating to me that there's a growing recognition that independent media is important in North America and Canada, especially. So I was asked to come and testify on Canada's ethics regime. You know, we have an ethics commissioner.

It's been widely reported that Pierre Poliev slammed the RCMP for being unable to potentially prosecute Justin Trudeau on obstruction of justice charges related to S&P Lavalan. Look, I've reported on various critics and my own digging into that case, which I can tell you about. I've reported on, you know, similar cases related to Chinese election interference where I believe the Trudeau government in a different way similarly failed on, you know, let's just say Canada's ability to investigate itself or pay attention to deeply concerning intelligence about hostile states getting into our parliament. So essentially I told the members of the Ethics Committee, let me break it down this way.

They were interested in my reporting prior to the federal election. I looked into how Prime Minister Mark Carney and his role with Brookfield, and I know we talked before about TD Bank and its board and how someone very important to Mark Carney, Frank McKenna, sits on the TD board and why I think we discussed why maybe that could have a little influence potentially on why TD wouldn't crack down on the money laundering that the U.S. government had to jump in and prosecute. So I could ramble through many different cases,

but the MPs such as Michael Cooper from your home province were interested in my reporting on Carney and Brookfield. Carney as the business person before running for prime minister had, you know, Brookfield had deep dealings with Chinese Communist Party state regulated or even direct Chinese Communist Party state entities in a green business worldwide and especially real estate in China. And I told the members on my reporting that, look, you don't get access to China's real estate development market unless Beijing at the highest levels wants you to.

And that is how basically my testimony covered, getting access to those markets should raise potential ethical concerns to the decisions Mark Carney's making in Ottawa with regards to it came up in the hearing. He has about 100 potential business vulnerabilities regarding his global holdings, his global business with Brookfield, which I said was deeply involved with China. And so the key question that the members were after was, does Canada's ethics commissioner, are they in any way independent? And I argue like others, no, they're politically appointed. They serve at the pleasure of the Prime Minister in his cabinet. And I just think that case after case of horror story that's risen in Ottawa,

S&C Lavinlam being the key recent one. It's not even recent anymore, but it should be current. This is the evidence that there's no real teeth to the commissioner and the structure around looking into whether our prime minister, let's talk about the current one, is doing the business and the bidding of Canadian. voters, or could he secretly be due to, you know, a very weak and gap-filled ethical screen, be making decisions that will benefit his friends, whether they be in the United States,

China, Montreal, Brookfield, Canada Power Corporation, Canada, China, Business Council. There's just all kinds of first order, second order, third order, fourth order, complex ways that he could benefit his friends. And so at the end of the day, my testimony went further. And I said, we need an anti-corruption independent commission to replace the RCMP on politically sensitive files. Because again, you know, I said it very carefully in my testimony. I'll be a little bit more forward with you, Sean. I strongly believe and I know the RCMP cannot investigate senior Canadian politicians for potential ethical.

or corruption breaches connecting to foreign powers or foreign companies or any manner of outside interests. They cannot? I say they can't. And, you know, look, the S&C Lavalang case, I had reported on that. This didn't come up in my testimony. But Jody Wilson, Raybold, documents came out through an entity called Democracy Watch, which used, you know, accessed information and got something like volumes of records showing that the RCMP, review, it wasn't even, they didn't even call it an investigation of Justin Trudeau's role in the S&C Lavalant case, redacted documents came out showing that the RCMP was told by Wilson Raybold and others

that senior political aides, you know, surrounding Trudeau in his office, said that the S&C Lavalan case was connected to the Liberals' re-election chances. As you know, Wilson Raybold, you know, secretly tape-recorded various people saying that Justin Trudeau's privy counsel clerk, Michael Wernick, conveyed that the prime minister wanted a deferred prosecution to happen with, you know, with S&C Lavaland. The prime minister even referred to his own riding Papineau being important to the S&C Lavalind case. And in a nutshell, what these new documents disclosed was Wilson Raibold told the RCMP,

you need to interview many more people. You should seek a waiver to extend your review. of the Essence affair. And you could look at, this is a quote, she told them, you could look at the criminal obstruction charge regime in the criminal code. Redaction, redaction after that statement, but that's suggesting that Wilson Raibold, who remember is bound, of course,

by certain cabinet secrecy, you know, rules, was telling the RCMP strongly hinting, she thinks there's a case there of criminal obstruction. And as we know, the RCNP didn't go forward. That's just one example. I've got more related to Chinese election interference. Look, Sean, I even posted to X when, I'll end my answer here. The current public safety minister, as you know, has been standing up self-righteously in Ottawa.

And as I say, you know, with fake pearl clutching rhetoric indicating the conservatives in Pierre Paulyev, how dare you criticize the RCMP for, you know, not being able to investigate? We trust our men and women on the front line protecting Canada. Canada. And I just say that's that's fake news because look, I I listened to Gary's clip on X and I did a little post and said, look, people, 100,000 followers, I have emailed the RCMP with direct evidence of a charged Chinese alleged drug trafficker who my information indicated had an official connection to an elected official. And I'm not going to say more than that in Canada, I forwarded this information as well as anonymous source information

going further into the election interference realm and ask the RCMP, you know, can they, would they investigate? Can they comment? And they haven't done anything. So, Sean, I kind of like, I parcel out bit by bit some of the explosive stuff I know because as you know, I'm subject of various lawsuits due to my reporting on election interference. I and others see this as something called law fair, so I'm being careful, but the facts are the facts. There is or was an elected official with a direct link to a charged Chinese drug trafficker,

and the RCMP hasn't done diddly squad about it. So, I mean, take what you will from that. Yeah, well, as I've come to know through having interviews with you, you've got some fiery stuff and does it shock me they do nothing with it in this current Canadian climate not so much

you know like the ethics violations themselves from our politicians well they just keep stacking up do you find it interesting then or maybe not interesting I'm curious your thoughts because the House of Commons here I'll read it off

motion passed Brookfield execs and liberal government officials they have to disclose or I should say House Commons just voted to launch an investigation into Mark Carney's stock holdings. It was a conservative motion passed with the support of all parties except the liberals. And basically, it's time to see what Carney's been trying to hide. Do you think anything will come of that? Yeah, I've got two answers to that.

I mean, my first answer is these committees and these hearings are 95 to 98% political theater. I think any astute watchers know, does that? anything really ever come out in terms of accountability, you know, with regards to all the procurement scandals, as you know, the Conservatives are seeking a payback of those scandalous contracts related to one of the, I can't even count anymore, the horror stories that have come out of Eastern Canada. And, you know, whether it's the Arrivedcan app or, I don't know, COVID screening for another entity that I looked at, I mean, it gets bad, but you know, the conservatives have asked, where's the payback on that one? Nothing has happened yet. So this gets back

to my first answer. There's no teeth to, you know, the ethical regime or the regulatory regimes that come out of these committees. What they do do, and this is my same answer for the Hogue Commission into election interference, which is another piece of political theater and whitewashing, but it produced a lot of documentation, speaking about Hogue, you know, around China's deep infiltration tactics in Canada. And I say the same case is now exploding in the British Parliament and revealing even more. Because Britain, let me just say this, Britain, where they don't have a captured media, you know, they've got a strong media that is taking leaks and holding the government to account.

And the media is not being accused of like colluding with criminal national intelligence leakers. The media is leading the charge for democracy in the UK, whereas here in Canada, you know, we got one or two reporters like myself that do what we do and do it for Canadians, do it because we love the country and democracy. I still love Canada. I don't want it to separate and break up. I'm fighting until the end, okay? But look, I mean, I rambled a bit there, but there's so much going on in Ottawa that that those committees, my short answer is they give more to the public. There's more clips circulating on X. There's more discussions like the one between you and I, and that can inform voters. Will it inform people that want to separate from Alberta? Well,

if the case is righteous, it should. I'm not the judge of that. So that's the value. There's no regulatory value in it. Yeah. You're right. Do we expect anything to come out of the ethics commissioner that's all of a sudden going to see some politicians behind bars or or whatever whatever the case may be no no we we we we're learning that uh here quite um i don't know not reluctantly because it's it just continues to happen right it's like oh another ethics violation and what happens with that nothing you know so nothing happens so this is why i say all all it can really do at this point um is is inform the voters that is if we still still believe that the federal election can't be siop and gerrymandered so that we've got a one-party

state, which appears to be the situation now. But to dig a little deeper into Brookfield, look, I do think it's positive that the House, Parliament, will be looking at these 103 potential vulnerabilities of Mark Carney, whether, you know, the media in Ottawa, you know, wants to dig in and something comes out. We won't hold our breath. We'll hold our breath. But look, I'm a strong believer and I put my money where my mouth is that independent media, independent podcasters, people can judge them, you know, for their talents in gathering information, making assessments, putting out opinions. And I'm saying we're adding to democracy by doing this. And this hearing will help that, which raises, maybe I should leave this alone.

but another part of my committee hearing this past week, there were certain MPs that said, we really appreciate journalism, and rambled on for five minutes, and then the sting comes. But what should we do to better, you know, better protect Canada's information ecosystem so that investigative reporters that use anonymous sources

don't undermine confidence in government? And I'm like, I didn't say this, but you have the temerity to put it that way. I'm here as an independent journalist with a background to tell you stuff that you're not going to hear in, you know, power and politics and CBC for very specific reasons. So if you want to build C-18 me out of existence or something like that, go ahead because I'm now based in Wyoming, although I didn't put it that way. You know, I'm registered. I'm registered in the United States so I can report on North America. But it was a little bit funny to me how this came up.

If you don't mind, I don't know if I knew that. Maybe I glazed over that. You're based out of Wyoming now. Well, physically, I'm in a very much still in Canada, but yeah, I'll give you this little scoop if it's even a scoop or if it even matters. To me, it does. I registered the Bureau in Wyoming and I've taken, you know, steps to one of them is because the United States government, you know, supports a greater freedom of the press. And as you know, I'm reporting not just on Canada. I'm reporting on the United Kingdom. I'm reporting on Washington, Australia, New Zealand. I'm now looking worldwide in my reporting. And so I just think I wouldn't say it's the

same issue confronting small business owners that, you know, I heard Lisa Ray at the former MP say on CBC that she's hearing so many people for business reasons looking at the states. That's not my consideration. My consideration is freedom of the press. Yeah, well, you're not the only one right like i know sitting here in alberta talking to albertans people across canada people in the states across the seas like you know um we're seeing with all the different bills being pushed there's a lot of independent media that are staring at that and going holy crap if this goes through like how we won't be able to do what we're doing like a full stop they will come after us one by one or all at the same time or however they want to do it and the

ramifications that are fines jail time like just removal you know like a full stop vanishing vanishing from the internet but look i mean sean i i i steadfastly try to for years ignore this very type of conversation and bill but you know because my focus is in other areas but But absolutely. These are real issues and concerns. Look at what's happening in Britain. And by the way, you know, there's things going on. There's statements being made that I would never make and I wouldn't support. But people are getting like the local constabulary knocking on their door for me posts. The last the last figure I saw and I know it's gone up since this time, but it was 12,000 people in the UK had been arrested for posting online. And you're like for posting online. online folks, posting. It's a real concern. And not to get off topic, but the real issue there and it's come up is, look, Kirstarmer's

government, Kier Starmor as a lawyer was very, you know, as other British politicians are, is very close to the Middle Eastern community, you know, in representation. And so there's just become this absolute collision of society in Britain where something that's called the rape grooming scandal related to how in other cultures, unfortunately, young women are groomed and targeted. And that was basically covered up by the British government. And so the result is you had British people, many of them making what I would see is gross and unacceptable over generalizations and statements at the same time responding, you know, emotionally and security wise to their family being endangered because the government's covered

something up. And some of them have been jailed. So I don't know exactly where I come down, but where they've come down in Britain against free speech is obviously the wrong position. And it does endanger independent journalists. Well, I mean, I don't know all the posts. I don't sit here and go through them all. But just off of what you've said there, right? You cover something up that is horrific, right? I don't think anyone in society thinks a rape gang is something that should be tolerated at all.

No. You cover it up. What is going to be the response of everyday people? they're going to be upset rightfully so and if you don't address it which by sounds of it they did not that it's even worse they they swept it under the rug then you're going to get people who are going to say and do things to try and and stir the population to address it right i mean and now the government's come down harder and said no you're going to be arrested for online posting you're going to do i mean like to me it's it's they're creating their own mess

Yeah, it's a horrible way to administer a society. And, you know, our multicultural societies are brilliant. This is the, you know, the ground roots of a great nation. But if Western governments don't recognize that other cultures may need training to avoid, you know, what's not addressed where they come from, other cultures, you know, that haven't got deep roots in our Western, you know, justice system cannot impose, you know, their religion-based laws or standards in the West, or it doesn't work. And governments, too many governments, especially in Canada, have just come down,

have led a system of other cultures and justice systems embed in our societies. and it's causing a tear that I don't think, you know, I could have envisioned. When I was in school, 30 years ago, being told about how Pierre Trudeau envisioned, you know, a utopia tossed salad of societies. And the melting pot in the United States was, you know, not as good. So I just think, you know, again, I'm not trying to get up. I like that. A utopian toss salad.

They literally said that in our civics classes. is we're a tossed salad of cultures. The United States melts the people together into an American people. And, you know, I think we were taught that the tossed salad is the better way. I just find myself more, a lot more, I'd say, over the past two years, realizing the ideology of Pierre Trudeau has just, and I don't have to tell this to listeners from Alberta. They'll say, shut up, we know this. But as an Easterner, I've just recognized how dominant that ideology of Trudeau was.

and how dated it is to the real modern world. And I just think that's one of the things holding Canada back, if Canada can push through this tough point. Speaking on the UK, because I, you know, like obviously you've been posting about it. Others have been posting about it too. But I don't know. Is it the mandarin of Whitehall or this scandal there? Can you walk me through this one? Yeah.

I mean, this is exactly why I started the Bureau. so I can use what I learned in 20 years in Canada with regards to how Canada is extremely weak to foreign networks, organized crime, etc. So, okay, I'll start with the scandal. Two years ago, explosive news, the conservative government of the United Kingdom put forward or under them,

a prosecution was advanced saying that two young British guys were involved in a Chinese interference case inside their parliament and inside their government, Westminster. And so it's, we didn't know anything for two years. Then a month ago, shocking news comes out that the prosecution makes a terse statement, we cannot advance this case. So it's like WTF, why, you know? And so obviously, again, the British media wasn't going to accept that.

And so over the past few weeks, information, which has to come from the top of Britain's counterintelligence, MI5, and national security structure has leaked out that in a nutshell, the new labor government taking over from the conservative government of Kirstarmer and its senior advisors reportedly have caused the collapse of this massive, the biggest espionage case in a generation in Britain. You know, decades ago it was Russia and spies and campaigns. Cambridge and Oxford. Now it's inside Parliament, it's China. And the case allegedly was dropped for financial reasons. To keep, as is the old story, to keep high-level trade going between

Beijing and the United Kingdom, it looks like very pro-Beijing business influential people at the top of Starmers government caused evidence not to be forward to prosecution so it could advance its case. I'll leave it there. But why it's struck me is the nut of the alleged scheme is, Xi Jinping, president of China, basically his right-hand man, maybe second or third most powerful person in China, a guy named Kai Kyi,

she's spy master, was allegedly running this young British teacher who's teaching in a Mandarin school in China to collect information from the man's colleague in parliament who was working for conservative MPs, Conservative MPs. These Conservative MPs were very critical and concerned about China. So of course they were working on laws to combat, you know, what China is doing around the world. And they were, you know, funneling real-time, politically sensitive intelligence back to Beijing

on these conservative MPs. And what emerged is so China's secret police could use that information. And in a nutshell, target the people they're worried about in the UK Parliament. So there's so many other angles and tentacles of this story breaking every day in London. But when I and some of them document based, I've reported on, but I'm saying this is the exact same story that I broke where Justin Trudeau and his liberal government ignored, you know, in another sort of way enforcement and intelligence information being brought up to Justin Trudeau saying, hey, China is deeply attacking your opponents, the conservatives, who are a little bit harder on China, and they're mostly supporting you and your liberal MPs

and others in your, you know, in your networks, Justin Trudeau. And he basically, as I reported, the information that came out in the Hogue raised concerns that he, you know, ignored this information. There was a, just as one more example that brings it a little closer to the UK example. There was a national security warrant targeting a Canadian politically connected person is all I can say for legal reasons, very close to Trudeau, very close to the liberal government. That warrant was targeting that person and as came out in the Hogue Commission, the question was did Bill Blair Trudeau's public safety minister and his staff attempt to delay or even obstruct that warrant? Major scandalous information. Of course, you know, Madam Hogue

I say came back with weak or nil findings on that issue. But to me, that's where you have a legal structured investigation, certainly impeded for at least four months in Canada, into one of Justin Trudeau's friends, allegedly very close to China. And it's the same sort of story in the UK. So in a nutshell, that's how they tie together. It's very, very mirror image.

It's a mirror. It's a doppelganger. And this is what I say. You know, at this point, without being falsely modest, as a journalist, I'm an international expert on how China's United Front networks, that is the Chinese Communist Party, is implanted into our democracies. And, you know, the Anglo-American, supposedly Canadian, it used to be Western Intelligence Alliance, is attacked and divided by these United Front structures. That reminds me, you know, in the UK case, powerful U.S. lawmakers. wrote a letter to the British ambassadors saying, we have deep concerns that your government cure Starmer

has dropped this UK spy case. There appears to be very strong evidence. Did you drop it because you, you know, you're in trade talks with China? Did you drop it because they want to build what's called, China wants to build what's called a mega embassy in London? And, you know, there are obviously concerns with intelligence around this.

all these sensitive things going on. And the U.S. lawmakers in a letter said, we're concerned that this could disrupt the Five Eyes Alliance. We're concerned, did China present pressure on your prosecution and your government? And furthermore, they said, we, the U.S. House Committee on the CCP shared information with the lawmakers that China allegedly targeted. So you tell us, is our information in Washington safe? and that's an official demand to Britain.

So that just shows you how deep the concerns go in Washington. You know, I don't know when, was it the first time, second time I had you on. I remember having you and Cahotas on and we were talking about Canada-U.S. relations, you know, and I was, I was, I don't know, was I'm optimistic. I don't even know if I can say that. I was just watching it going like, is this going to get better or worse? Yeah. And where we sit today, I think we can all agree it's gotten worse. It's gotten worse. Yeah, yeah.

But when we were talking, we were talking about fentanyl and they came out saying there's no fentanyl crossing the border from Canada to the U.S. It's all coming from Mexico. Since then, you probably know the number of labs that have been busted here in Canada. We've seen, you know, down in Australian, New Zealand, different chemicals and drugs being. shipped as what was it syrup and what was the other one liquid pure liquid meth you know from yes from a fake Canadian beer sort of shipment killed a young New Zealander he drank a fake Canadian beer and yeah I and others have mostly myself have led the way in showing and we talked about it I said Canada is being used as a hub of China's transnational fentanyl met

etc, synthetic networks, because Canada has the ports, the institutions, G7 Nation. I said, United States sees Canada as a vulnerability with regards to Chinese infiltration. That was our previous discussion. And I remember some of the same, you know, failed political hacks in Ottawa saying, oh, what BS, et cetera? No, it's the exact. I was understating what I actually know, right? And so that's the issues.

Yeah, that both you and I wanted to give, I would say, in fairness, we're like, okay, we're not going to judge Mark Carney yet. I have my concerns that he has his ties to China in business, but let's see what he does. Everyone agrees he's a smart person. And you're right. It's like it's dropped off a ski slope. It's even worse than Justin Trudeau could have done at this point. Well, it's, yeah. Like, I mean, now you, you, I don't know.

looking at this U.S. Trump-Karney relationship, then Doug Ford comes out with the video and that blows up and then Trump's upset and, you know, and we're just watching this. And I'm going, where does it go from here from your standpoint, Sam? Like do you, I mean, obviously you don't have a crystal ball. You can't see the future. But Canada-U.S. relations are getting worse by the day, maybe by the hour. They're getting worse. It's extremely concerning and troubling to me because, as I said, I'll fight till Canada to near the end.

I'm not going down with the ship, but to the extent that I as a journalist can, you know, help people understand, help voters understand. Yeah, I absolutely believe. I mean, a Pierre-Pauliev government would have been a better negotiator, would have gotten us a better deal by now, quite likely, and would be a better security partner with the United States, which is where this ultimately has to go for Canada to survive. But Doug Ford's ad, David Eby's shenanigans, none of it makes sense unless they're trying to almost throw a wrench in Canada doing a deal. And I don't know if I want to put all the blame on Canada,

because you and I both know that, as he says himself, President Donald Trump can play hardball and can play dirty too. So are they, you know, is President Trump and his team in Washington, you know, in Treasury or whatever, kind of using the pinchers to say, yeah, we'll do a deal with Canada, but we want a little bit more oil from Alberta. We want some more critical minerals from the Ring of Fire in Ontario where Doug Ford sits. We don't want David Eby to send shipping deals to Chinese civil military fusion. So we're going to very carefully and aggressively negotiate to make sure we protect the homeland in the United States.

We get a better deal for our industries because if it goes to war with China, we need a bigger industrial hub in the United States so that whether you're building jeeps in Ohio or you have to retool the factory to make Abrams tanks, the United States can compete with China. So I don't want to ramble, but I think all these complexities are going on. And I'm not saying that Donald Trump and his team are playing purely fair. They're doing their best to protect their homeland

because they see the threat from China. And, you know, where's it going from here? When I see Doug Ford doing that ad and David Eby doubling down on that ad, by the way, the ad, as others have noted, the Ronald Reagan tape, China used it months ago. So where does Doug Ford and his team around him get the idea to do that? You know, is there anything more sophisticated going on there? I don't know, but these are fair questions in my mind as to what tentacles and levers

does China have in whatever Canada is doing? Because I'm certain that China has an interest in the negotiations between Canada and the United States. We already saw that in the election when it was revealed, you know, through this election monitor that popped out as a result of my prior work. We could at least learn during the election that China at the highest level was pumping propaganda into, you know, Canada's election, let's just call them social media channels, saying that Mark Carney will be a strong fighter against President Donald Trump, blah, blah, blah. And so I say the liberal campaign of Mark Carney closely mirrored what was coming out of Chinese propaganda. You know, elbows up. Mark Carney is a champion of Canada.

Pierre Paulyev is like a tool or, you know, an errand boy of Donald Trump. I say, if you ask me where it's going, I say, let's look where the puck has already been. China interfered in our election. They wanted Carney. The only mystery here is why was Donald Trump when he knew the 55, rhetoric was not helping the conservative party, you know, the liberals very clearly, along with China, we're using that. Why did Trump keep doing it? That's the mystery in my head still. You know, has he got an even deeper play going on? I don't know. It is an interesting question.

Yeah, I don't know. Because he would have known that that like, you know, you can, you can think all you want about Donald Trump, good or bad. But they would have known that that rhetoric, Eric at that time in our election wasn't helping the conservatives at all. No. Yeah. No, it was part of the sci-off. I say Carney and China are most to blame for the si-op of Canadians foolishly picking him when we should have had a fresh new government, a reset.

But absolutely, the Trump-Sy-up contributed to an election we've never seen in our life. Well, it gave him an enemy. It gave him the enemy that he, just kept talking and as he kept talking they just they just kept the elbows up and we're not going to become part of the united states it gave them everything they needed absolutely it kept up the the the trudo trump dynamic was was given legs you know so again a question in my mind is how much could you even say the liberals who are they're not low level political warfare players did they play trump in a way i don't know it's just and

fascinating stuff for me to think about. You know, sticking on the CCP, you had written an article and now it's from it's off of Dennis. I think it's, is it Molanaro? Dennis Molanaro.

Yeah, former Canadians. Talking about Pierre Polly, Pierre Paulya, Pierre Trudeau being the first CCP-influenced candidate. Why? Like, I find that interesting, I guess. What was the argument that he was making? Or what did you pull out of it that you're like, that is really interesting?

Yeah, no, tremendously interesting. And I would tell people go to the bureau and read it, like to get everything. And furthermore, even more than that, get Mullenero's book because he's got caveats and, you know, statements around how he got his information and which I'll explain that that give people. his full argument. But what I took out of it, some of this I knew, some of it I didn't. But as a former Canadian national security professional and policy advisor and historian, once he leaves government, I don't know when, you know, over the past few years, I guess, he's done open source research that any of us could do if we had his capacities into Pierre Trudeau.

So what I revealed in his first story, what I call his explosive scoop is through archive documents and newly declassified RCMP security service records, Molinero found out that there was a University of British Columbia student named Paul Lynn, who was born in Canada, traveled back to China and somehow made connections with the highest levels of Chinese intelligence, and then the RCMP documents that Molinero got and parsed through said that Canada's security said, this guy, Paul Lin, was sent back to Canada, tasked from the highest levels of the Chinese Communist Party to interfere and influence elite Canadians

towards Beijing's policy. And at this point, there is no Beijing because, you know, this is 1968 or the 60s, you know, it's still the government of China, the national government of China and the Chinese Communist Party are battling for control, right? And so to pick up, if you let me just ramble a bit, I'm going off memory here, like Molinaro polls documents, including Pierre Trudeau's own biography about how Trudeau in the 1960s or 1960s, went over to China and got this fully curated tour of like the Chinese Communist Party and its institutions. And Trudeau in his book, I think, called Two Young Innocents in China, talks about how he was, you know, shown libraries,

including a library that just somehow happened to have Pierre Trudeau's low-level book on a Quebec mining dispute prominently displayed. Pierre Trudeau is shown like an institute on minorities where he's, taken to a couple of pretty young, you know, Tibetan, Korean women talking about how the Chinese Communist Party is so great. So in a nutshell, Trudeau is cultivated, he's curated, he is seduced by the highest levels of Chinese intelligence and diplomacy to support the view that the Chinese Communist Party should replace what has become the government of Taiwan as the single representative of China. Trudeau, in, as it turns out, Mollinaro-Wawe. us through how Paul Lin, getting back to this UBC student, in all his travels and, you know,

around the world and efforts to get to Trudeau, is at the same time, you know, promoting the view that the government of Taiwan is illegitimate and the Chinese Communist Party is the real, should be the real China. And so in a nutshell, it gets very complex, but Trudeau in 1970 is a Leads the world. I say it's not leads. It's shameful. He declares the Chinese Communist Party, the PRC, as the new the new head of China. And what follows is Taiwan is isolated. Taiwan is can't there there's efforts by Truro to not let Taiwan come to the Montreal Olympics. All kinds of second third order effects happen. But essentially, if you see where I'm going, this is the the conflict of today that Washington is focused on.

Beijing attempting to militarily take over Taiwan. And what Molinero finds is this high-level Chinese communist agent was sent to target Trudeau. And, you know, carefully caveated Molinero states from the day that Pierre Trudeau recognized the PRC, every Canadian, every institution, all elements of Canada have been a subject of Chinese interference. And so it all stems from Trudeau and Canada's knowledge that various intelligence documents said Canada Ottawa was warned that this Paul Lin guy was said by some sources to be

very close to Pierre Trudeau. So Molanaro, the historian, the former analyst, pieces it all together and he doesn't he doesn't conclusively say pierre trudo uh recognized uh the PRC directly due to paul lin he says rcmp per the documents were obviously worried that that is what happened and you know look at what trudo did well the thing with pierre that um shocked me at one point in time but i i guess i don't know if it should have shocked me it was just how friendly he was with some of the disruptors of the world back then, you know? You just look at Cuba, you look at different factions of communist, socialist leanings, and he was traveling the world meeting with them.

So to me, to hear that the Chinese were keying in or interested by Pierre, I guess this doesn't surprise me. But in saying that, I don't know if I'd ever heard anyone. draw a connection to it. The connections that Mollinero makes, like a lot of them just from academic level reading and open source, I had vague or good awareness in some areas, but I forgot that for me,

the incredible bombshell that I had no idea of, and this will take it back to our prior discussion about Frank McKenna and Canadian elites, this guy Paul Lynn, this proven, documented, high-level Chinese agent-in-assioned asset started the Canada China Business Council decades ago, right? And so I had no idea of this. I knew already that the Canada China Business Council through my work, you know, brings in people

like Dominic Barton, brings in the Demeret family of Montreal, brings in these Canadian banks and all these extremely wealthy individuals and corporations in Canada that want deep trade with China. This Chinese agent Paul Lin had started it. And then Molinero unpacks that to show the Canada China Business Council was also, you know, the entity of the Demeray Power Corporation family. Molinero makes, you know, shows what I also knew, that Power Corporation and Demeray and therefore the Canada China Business Council had deep ties to Pierre Trudeau, Paul Martin, Jean-Creschen, Brian Mulroney. And so furthermore, I mean, the way Mollinero unpacks it is he says, with this information about Paul Lin

and his efforts to influence elite individuals in Canada, the documents that Malinero found also say that this Paul Lin guy was very instrumental in elite people in Canada seeking investment into China. This Paul Lin guy was a fixer. He enabled that to happen. He curated access to the Chinese embassy, which pops up in Canada after Pierre Trudeau's recognition of Beijing. Pauline curated academic or journalist or American sort of access to the Chinese embassy.

So this guy that I had no idea of, which surprised me since I've focused so much on China and Canada, appears to have been like an absolute elite fixer for China, giving powerful Canadian businessman, North American businessman, access to China. And so when I step back, the Canada-China Business Council, these networks involving the Demerese, the Frank McKenna's,

the people that run Canada, Zadal McBartens, the people that have a good say and who's going to run for liberal prime minister, whether you're Mark Carney, Justin Trudeau, Jean-Creschen, These people appear to have a connection to an elite United Front work department creation or a Chinese intelligence creation of this guy, Paul Lin, who helped set up the Canada,

China Business Council, which to me, I know I'm getting into the weeds there, but that as a China sort of influence expert by now, that was the bombshell that I had no idea, that concrete connection was there. one final one before i let you off you know i'd heard about the lab in winnipeg and there had been some different reports on on um did the research there go all the way to the top of covid all the things of it your thoughts on winnipeg and and once again you know uh i can't even say their names you know i'm like secret i'm like reading your your headline i'm like, I can't even read the names. I'm not going to try, but that they collaborated in a 2019

Wuhan bat phylo virus research project that Western, some Western intelligence, including the CIA with varying degrees of confidence, assess having to likely cause the COVID-19 pandemic. I'd heard, like, I've read and listened to different things on this. Now I see you talking about it. I'm like, interesting. What did you find in that story? Yeah. Yeah. So I've reported a lot of lot on this because, as you know, Trudeau's government tried to block the conservative opposition for getting access to documents which could shed light on why his husband and wife from China were booted out of the level four pathogen lab in Winnipeg. It was a big mystery, you know, various people including myself, got some freedom of information documents as to why this

Chinese-Canadian Dr. Chu, a woman, order of Canada, I believe, you know, scientists, very, you know, very well-reputed worldwide. But there was a big mystery. Why was she booted out? And so the documents that eventually came out over the past year are redacted CIS documents that essentially say that, you know, and I reported on this, she could be connected, even though there's redactions to this well-known Dr. Shee-Shenly, who is the Wuhan Institute doctor that was doing all these bat philo virus studies for decades and had you know worked with

some controversial american scientists and so it came out that dr chu you know the with the winnipeg chinese canadian scientist had been secretly traveling to wuhan had been lying to the canadian government and public health about where she's going had been collaborating with chinese bio-weapon research programs, you know, in various things, in this case, on Ebola, collaborating with the highest levels of the Chinese military. So using Canada's Winnipeg lab capacity, you know, in terms of with Ebola samples and other stuff that can kill the world, she was working on it in Winnipeg and sharing it with the highest levels of China's military intelligence. I had reported on that. I had connected her to Dr. Shee, but what's clear here is not only

that she's working along with Dr. Shee on the special project of the bat, a bat, philovirus that a special Chinese, let's just call it bio weapon research project in Wuhan is started in early 2019 and Dr. Shee is one of three top scientists involved. This is all a secret. So these documents came out in Parliament that suggested she could be part of it somehow. But, you know, it's important to note that Trudeau's government, when the Conservatives came out and said, hey, it looks like she might have been part of something very scary, you know, bio-weapon research, the Trudeau-Liberal said that's racist. That's all been proven false. She was working on that. There's not direct evidence that anything for bat philoviruses came out of the Winnipeg lab, but there's direct access

evidence that she was working on that project and she was working on it secretly and she was working on it. Well, she was in Wuhan, right? So that's that. Parcel that off. Did anything material come out of the Winnipeg lab? I don't have that evidence. There's tons of redactions. but I say it's enough that she was working on that project. Now, as you know in the past year, the FBI, CIA, British intelligence, I believe German intelligence, U.S. defense, military intelligence have all come out basically publicly and said, you know, they have various degrees of confidence that it's likely that a lab accident on a bat-filo-virus project in Wuhan caused COVID-19. So that's not conclusively proven in what's come out in credited reporting.

I strongly believe that American intelligence knows more than they're saying. They could probably say, it's quite likely they have proof that it did leak out of that Wuhan lab. But what Molinero, I reported on a lot of this, Molinero goes a little bit further with his skills and capacity. Again, looking at open source documents and he says, we need to ask. If the lab leak theory is proven as conclusive, you know, what does it say that a Canadian scientist was one of three working on the project? And furthermore, the people that she was collaborating with, a company called Kensinologics, which was a bunch of Chinese scientists, you know, operating around the University of Toronto, which it turned out were part of the

People's Liberation Army. Dr. Chu and others helped them with their COVID vaccine. Right. And so it's all part of the same piece. Mullinero asks, you know, okay, so if Dr. Chu and these other alleged Chinese spies in Canada were helping China with the vaccine, which we didn't get, they stiffed it on us, although we were working on it together, and she was part of something that caused the, the pandemic, you know, not proven, but very strong, you know, questions to be raised. Molinao. Yeah, if you're, if you're,

I feel like I could just hear Cajota's talking right now, right? If you're an American sitting there looking at, um, Canada's role in it, the connections, the ties are all sitting there. You can't, you know,

you, you, you, you, you can't fully understand everything because of redactions, but you can start to piece it together. And it sounds an awful like, an awful lot like,

a Canadian, played a major role. in developing what would turn out to be the virus that shut the world down. There's that strong possibility. Yeah. And I think you're right. It gets back to what you and I in Cahotis were talking about. Canada as a weakness or used as a node for China's clandestine activities, whether it's financial, organized crime, fentanyl, political interference, or using a pathogen lab. And I already had, you know, a former Trump senior investigator named David Asher did tell me on the record, and I've reported this.

Obviously, he was holding back a lot, but he said, yeah, it's fair to say that in Washington, we had a concern. The Winnipeg Lab was a strong part of China's bioweapon research program. So that says it all, right? Look, any country will be attacked and infiltrated. There's so many FBI cases looking into similar attempted operations in the United States. The difference is there's FBI investigations and prosecutions. Yes.

And there literally is not in Canada. There is not. Here it's, it's racist to talk about it. It's racist. And it just happens, happens, happens until the Americans say, hey, you got to do something about it, which brings me back to fentanyl. You know, you can't deny all these patterns with the US being concerned, Canada doing nothing. Yeah. I appreciate you hopping on and doing this, Sam.

we'll keep tabs on on uh once again you mentioned off the hop you got 30,000 people on substack. Uh, if people are searching you out, where would you point them to? I assume substack, but, uh, where would you appoint people to find your work? Yeah. So I have my, my URL, the bureau dot news. So you can just, uh, probably the best way, search the bureau, Sam Cooper in your, uh, in your Google there or in your AI. And they'll take you to the bureau. dot news, which is platformed on substack. And I'll add, look, I could have just made my own website, but being with substack, I can now say they recognize me as a bestseller in journalism. They're giving support. And I think that's a great going back to what we talked about.

I believe substack is an extremely important new company for independent voices, independent journalists, independent commentators. So for me, I'm giving them a lot of credit for that. Well, and I think, don't quote me on this because I'll have somebody text me different. But, you know, one of the things I admired about Substack, the reason I'm on Substack is during the height of COVID and, you know, some insane times, they were one of the few that didn't the platform people for talking about things. Somebody could maybe prove me wrong on that. But I remember, you know, like X when they were moving everyone, Patreon started removing a bunch of people on and on and on. the stories went and you can point to almost every social media the um substack was one of the few that uh didn't and so i think uh you know that to me was something that was attracted me there

because i you know youtube i started on youtube and then the freedom convoy happened and my my channel just disappeared overnight it's like holy crap so when you come back to all these different bills and they can just make you disappear i've felt the full force of that on one of the places youtube right And another one that was wonderful through the times of COVID, although they put warnings on every show I had, was Spotify. Spotify would say, you know, COVID misinformation or however they had that little warning about the show. But they never ever removed any specific show on there. And I got a ton of time for that. That doesn't mean the Canadian government isn't going to try and find ways to push on these social media platforms to not remove different people.

We've certainly seen it happen to a lot of people. So when you talk substack, yeah, I have a ton of time for it. Yeah, you know, and what you just said there, I think it's good to hammer on it again. You know, independent media and voices, this is just getting back to what humanity has always been about, you know. People, people are dumb. Yeah, some people go off the crank on the left and right side and say wrong things, but let's give some people, you know, some credit for sifting information themselves. And I think even in the space you and I operate, you know, that independent platformed voice, people have learned. Look, don't just trust me.

Don't just trust Sean. Get your receipts. Do your own information. You know, get a little bit more curious yourself and take it as a perspective among others. And I think the space is getting more educated and mature in that way, which is good. Yeah. The word that came to mind for me is rich. Like there's people are getting educated.

becoming a very deep conversation, which I'm all here for. Sam, appreciate you hopping on and giving me some time this morning. Always great. Have a good day there.