Shaun Newman Podcast - #944 - Pelle Neroth Taylor

Episode Date: November 3, 2025

Pelle Neroth Taylor is a Swedish-British journalist, filmmaker, and political writer based in Sweden, renowned for his investigative work on geopolitics, propaganda, political assassinations, and the rise of European populism. Educated at Westminster School and Bristol University, he began his career in the early 1990s reporting for The Economist from the post-communist Baltic States, later editing and contributing to outlets like The Guardian, The Independent on Sunday, The Times, Financial Times, Sunday Times, New Scientist, and The Lancet. As founder of Two Raven Films, he has produced documentaries such as Sweden, Dying to Be Multicultural, a critical examination of Sweden's immigration policies that has garnered over 2 million views on platforms like Amazon Prime and Blckbx TV, and Cancel Nation, addressing censorship and cancel culture. Tickets to Cornerstone Forum 26’: https://www.showpass.com/cornerstone26/Tickets to the Mashspiel:https://www.showpass.com/mashspiel/Silver Gold Bull Links:Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/Email: [e-mail] Grahame: [phone]Bow Valley Credit UnionBitcoin: www.bowvalleycu.com/en/personal/investing-wealth/bitcoin-gatewayEmail: [e-mail] Use the code “SNP” on all ordersProphet River Links:Website: store.prophetriver.com/Email: [e-mail] your voice heard: Text Shaun 587-217-8500

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Make sure to leave a review. Make sure to share with a friend if you're enjoying the conversations. Now, let's get on to that. that tale of the tape. Today's guest is Swedish, British journalist, filmmaker, political writer, and author. I'm talking about Pelly Neeroth Taylor. So buckle up. Here we go.

Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast today. I'm joined by Pelly, Neeroth Taylor. Pellie, thanks for hopping on. Pleasure to be here. Now, you've got to, I'm going to assume, very few of my audience know who you are. I'd never heard your name before. tell us, tell us a little bit about your story and we'll, we'll hop in from there. Well, I mean, I'm a, I've been a London-based journalist for many years, and I was writing,

I was working as a sub-editor, copy editor in the British press, the untold heroes who write headlines and rewrite stories and so on. And it's actually very, it's like it's satisfying as doing a crossword in a way, because now with the internet, you don't have that problem, but when you had to fit an article into a paper version of a news article, you had to do quite a lot of cutting. So I sat in all the big newspapers, but of course, in a way, it's not a, it's not a job for careerists or egotists, you know, I mean, basically you're saving other people's asses. And I think that the, probably now it's, I don't know, I mean, maybe AI eliminates that job, just as AI has eliminated translation because it basically fixes all those grammatical errors.

Anyway, it was great fun. And I was a columnist for a science magazine in the UK for years. And I worked for The Lancet, which is a famous medical journal, now totally discredited. But I thought that I was slightly, so I was born in the UK, moved to Sweden when I was seven, because my mother's Swedish and my parents divorced. And then I went through part of the school system in Scandinavia, Sweden. It's a rich, prosperous country, not all that dissimilar. from Canada, I guess. Some people think it's similar. And then at 16, I went back to England to do my A-levels at a private school, boarding school, which is right at the heart of the establishment in Westminster, which is like in housed in Westminster Abbey. It's as famous as Eaton to the Brits, except more academic than Eaton. And then I went through that and went to university in the UK and then did these jobs in the British journalism. But I felt that, I made a decision that if I'm going to have to find a niche in a rather, well, two things.

One was that I was, I mean, I was working in London during the Iraq War and then during the Libya War. And the Iraq War, of course, was as a farago of lies. And I remember people talking about it in the canteen and afterwards. And I thought, I'm not happy about this, you know. And then the Libya war and the Syria crisis in 2008, the Georgia crisis in 2008, the Internet, the internet started coming on stream. And I started realizing that what the Guardian, which I did work for, is talking about it is a pure lie. I mean, everyone knows that they're the paper of Snowden and Assange.

So they've got huge kudos with the kind of left leading liberal establishment all over the Anglo world. But actually, they're profoundly dishonest paper. And I thought, well, do I want to carry on working in this environment of lies? I mean, I was early on to this. And then secondly, I thought, I have to find at a top, an area which I can use as a base, an area of expertise, because it is at the same time, very competitive London journalism. I thought, well, I'll cover Sweden because I speak the language fluently. I also had a Swedish girlfriend.

So I moved to Sweden, commuted, if you like, between London and Sweden. And that's where I am, no. I wrote a couple of books about Sweden. I wrote a book about the UN Secretary General Dag Hammashog, who was also assassinated in 1961. He worked with Lester Pearson, actually. I understand he's not a great hero for many Canadians, but he was on the UN Blue Helmets. He's the most famous UN Secretary General.

I wrote a book about the assassination of Wool of Palme as a Swedish prime minister. Many people think Sweden is boring and IKEA and strawberries and pretty girls, but it's actually quite a dramatic history during the Cold War. And what the Swedes tend not to do is talk about their assassinations of their leaders. And then I got into sort of the unofficial history of all topics, basically.

I realized, well, I mean, lying is among mainstream media is just total. I mean, so I wrote a little book for a Swedish audience on the JFK assassination. But of course, I can't compete with the Americans who have access to the archives and so on. And then I wrote a book where I can compete, as it were, which was about the history of World War, the diplomacy before World War I and diplomacy during World War I. And this is very interesting to Canadians because World War I has a salience for Canadians that it doesn't have for, let's say, Americans, you know, because of the remembrance Sunday and the large Canadian sacrifices during Passion Dale and Eaple and so on.

I mean, it's part of the Canadian identity, I would say, the poppies and the trenches and so on. But I mean, this whole war was based on the lies. And we tend to think that the Germans started it. Not true, it was the British. Brits started it, British Empire. And I know that you had on your show a guy called Tom Luongo, maybe Alex Criner. I mean, they're bashing on, banging on about the British Empire. I had a show for a while on the channel called T&D.

And I realized what these guys are saying is like other pieces of the jigsaw puzzle. I hadn't heard of them. But I wrote my book during COVID, basically. You have two books. One, diplomacy, during... And the British, I mean, I'm half British, we love them. They contributed enormous to civilization, but they didn't create the world's greatest empire by being nice guys. I mean, by drinking, sipping tea.

I mean, they were ruthless. And they were masters of covert operations, of diplomacy, of propaganda, and a political manipulation. And Alex Criner tells that story. And, for instance, Matt Errett wrote very well. I mean, who knew that the British used the Confederacy in 1861, much like the Brits are, using Ukraine now because they were going to squelch the Americans before they became too powerful. They became too powerful by 1890. So the Brits thought, hmm, well, we better be nice to them now, which is what happened, you know, and they allied with them. But for a long time, they saw America's

arrival and the fact that they spoke English, be damn. They wanted to destroy America. And America became too powerful. And they turned their attention to Germany, which was then the rising power in Europe, industrialized a century later than Britain. And they got the French and the Russians to basically, and themselves, Germany was isolated or sent in the center of Europe and squeezed Germany relentlessly with the same kind of propaganda, the same kind of bullshit, the same kind of false flags has happened towards Russia and the Ukraine conflict. So, you know, you can separate your love for a country's culture and so on and then recognize that. that their leaders do bad things to stay in power.

And I've read a lot of the diplomatic telegrams that were going back and forth. And it was, I mean, they're saying, well, if we don't destroy Germany, you know, we're going to end up like Holland or Spain, an empire, which is a fading country, which we need to prepare our save our empire for the 20th century. And they took on Germany because they thought France wanted part of Germany, which was Alsace. And if we can all focus on Germany, then we can, we won't be the next target. So it's like picking on someone in the school playground

who's a little bit weaker than the others and could get enough allies. And so the British, I mean, actually, American historians knew all this by 1920 and 1925, a lot of books. That's why the Brits, Americans didn't want to join Second World War because there's a strong isolationist movement based in the Midwest, saying we're not going to take the British Coles out.

We're not going to save the Brits one more time or fight for the empire one more time because we did it last time. But then after Second World War, Hitler, you know, you had Hitler and everybody forgot about the Germans being basically the attacked side in World War I because Hitler was everything. So the Germans have always been bad guys. And then, but even so, I mean, a couple of years ago, there's a book by British historian saying more or less what I said in my book, but except I go into into much greater detail. And it's striking that you, that the history of in the run, the propaganda, the sort of, the war of nerves, It's like a sort of fevered, fever dream.

And everyone knew that World War I would destroy European civilization, which it practically did. But they couldn't stop themselves from sliding into conflict. It's almost they couldn't help themselves. And they see the same situation happening now in Eastern Europe with Russia. So it's like those who don't remember their history are doomed to repeat it. If people read my book, they say, well, we're not going to let this happen again. Because World War I destroyed European civilization and actually allowed the Russia. of the Soviets and the Americans to take over.

Well, you know, we know that World War III is going to be infinitely worse because it's going to destroy life, not just Western civilization. So, I mean, a lot of this discussion about woke, and that's just small change. The real blow to Western civilization didn't happen when, you know, transgender movement became famous and a lot of DEI people, black's got jobs that they're not qualified for. It started in 1914.

It was Europeans killing each other on an industrial scale. So that's the earth catastrophe of the 20th century. And of course, on the 11th of November, which is just coming up, it's the 11th anniversary. It's 107th anniversary after since the war ended, 11th of November, 1918. That's 11 o'clock in the morning. I think the last soldier who died was a Canadian. He died like four seconds before the ceasefire at 11, 11 a.m. in the morning. So anyway, so it's.

It's, that's, and I wrote that book, and basically, because it's self-published, I've been, I, is doing these podcasts, had a podcast on a T&T, which I got a lot of really prominent guests on. And it allows me basically to try and sort of pitch my stuff and get, get out there. So that's where I'm at the moment. I'm at the sort of market and promotional stage. I've got these books and I've sat in the cottage in Sweden and now I'm talking to people. And it's a great pleasure, you know. When you talk about the diplomacy before World War I, walk me through what you found or what you saw as problematic to how that conflict begins. Because I guess I've read different textbooks on it. I've listened to different podcasts on it.

When you say the diplomacy before World War I is problematic, you know, everybody's been talking about World War II. they don't seem to talk about World War I. And maybe I'm generalizing that. But yeah, explain this to me. The World War I, let's say, if you talk to the layman, well, he thinks, well, it's, it was like a, so I meet people where most people, even educated people, where they're at, their perception of what happened. And it's been promoted by a lot of British historians after World War II, you know,

The Germans kind of woke up one, the Kaiser woke up one morning and because the Germans are natural expansionists decided to invade Belgium. But because the Germans were aggressive, you know. But what actually happened was that the, I don't know where to start, the Brits were very, very unpopular after the Boer War in 1890. Basically, it was the Dutch Afrikaners speaking Afrikaners who had been there for three centuries in southern Africa. And the British sent the empire because they thought, well, if the Boers sitting on these diamond mines and these gold mines become too independent, they will expand in the southern Africa and push out the English speakers of the Cape province. and so they engineered a false attack and the British Empire basically crushed the boors who looked a lot like sort of, you know, they were rebels with with floppy hats and riding horses and they're all expert marksmen.

So they had nearly the whole of global public opinion against them for them. And what the British Empire was like men in red coats en masse, walking and they had massive resources and so on and almost no one supported them. I think literally perhaps some of the dominions of the Commonwealth supported them, but even the public opinion in those countries didn't support them. And there were sort of musical songs to the Boers and so on and the Paris fashion shows had the Boer fashion with the sort of floppy hats. So the British in 1900 were absolutely hated all around the world. And there were actually several attempts at an alliance between the Germans, the French and the Russians to create a unified Europe.

against the British. And the Russians and the French were already in alliance. And the Russians and the French were sort of, they were, they could do a lot of harm to the British Empire because the Russians were big in Asia and the French were big in Africa and the Southeast Asia. And you had German military might and German industrial might. So the British were on the back foot in around 1900. And what happened was that there was a coordinated policy to say, well, how are we going to, um, survive in the 20th century with our colonies all over the world and rising powers and you've got America. They couldn't squelch America. America was rising. Russia was rising very fast. Germany was rising. France was kind of in decline, but still big. And the British were really unpopular. And the only people they could rely on was the ever loyal Canadians and ever loyal Australians, right? But what they said was we what we'll do is if we isolate Germany and get everyone to hate Germany instead, It's like look at that country instead. And the French, the Germans occupied Alsace, which is a region around which the city of Strasbourg is, as actually German speaking and German culture.

But the French had occupied it for two or three hundred years. And that was the single obsessive focus of French politicians. And so that could be exploited to push the French against the Germans. The Russians had been, were very well. very obsessed with getting the straits, you know, the Constantinople, which, because the Russians saw themselves as air, the third Rome, the third city of Christianity, first you had Rome, the second was Byzantium, which is today's Constantinople, Istanbul. And then it was Moscow. And they felt also responsibility for the Christians of the Middle East. I mean, there were a lot

of Christians living in Turkey, today's Turkey, and in Palestine. And I think Istanbul was like 50% Christian. We don't know that. I mean, it's become totally Islamified after 1914. Anyway, they wanted Istanbul, Constantinople, and they wanted the straits to the black sea to allow their exports and their warships out into the Mediterranean. So the British tempted them with that. And basically, they went, they, Germans wanted to keep the Ottoman Empire going, because if you collapse them Ottoman Empire, that would lead to a rise of, nationalism all over Eastern Europe and that that would destroy Germany's only ally which was the Austro-Hungarian Empire and if if that was destroyed Germany would be if you had

the the Germans couldn't afford to lose their any ally and what the the Austrians worked very hard to build an alliance with the Russians but the increasingly I mean that the Brits placed what you today would call agency. some influence in St. Petersburg, which was the capital, who basically didn't answer the telegrams from the Austrians. Because if empires are at peace with each other, basically, you could say, well, then peace is the result. But what happened was also Serbian and Balkan nationalists started to carry out terror attacks on the, um, um, um, on. Um, um, on. on Austrian officials. I mean, basically, I mean, Austria was as a benign an empire as you could ever see. I mean, around 1900, Vienna was the cultural capital of the world. I mean, people like Karl Popper, people like, well, Freud and so on. I mean, they grew out of this very liberal intellectual environment. I mean, I think when I was at university in the 1980s, all the philosophers we were reading came from Austria originally. The Hungarians were geniuses. I mean, most of the nuclear weapons program, America pursued in World War II, came from Bud.

and they were born around 1880 to 1900. And so it was a ferment of creativity. And what they had was, but it was a multicultural, multinational state. And what happened was that the Russians in particular started sponsoring nationalist movements in the Balkans to break up the Austrian Empire. So the Russians are not always heroes. I think they've been badly treated in this latest conflict. And the British supported them in that. And I think the, what was the world,

the the the Germans treated the Austrian allies quite badly they said well you've got to make peace with the Russians the peace to Russians don't want to talk to us the Brits are always engaging oh you've got to be nice to the British because funnily enough I mean the French were much more hostile to the British and the Germans were the Germans were always very naive about the British if you like so anyway I mean the the the the Germans try I mean the British had occupied most of Africa and the French had occupied most of Africa. There was one country Morocco, which had an independent Sultan. The German, the French signed a secret treaty with the Brits. The French would get Morocco and the British would get total control over Egypt, except Morocco had a free trade treaty with the whole world. And so the Germans got in and I said, hang on, if the French do what they usually do in their colonies, they'll shut them off for business and we're the biggest trading partner. And if you look at British history books today, they took the first time Germany expanded and showed its teeth. The Kaiser's aggression was when he created troubles in Morocco. It's not

troubles at all. He was just asserting the universal rights of an independent country to have Morocco as a trading partner. So the upshot of it is the British and the French wanted to stick shut the entire world between them and the Germans weren't going to be given anything. And when the Germans kind of raised a voice. It was talked, talked of as German aggression. I mean, there's gaslighting in the highest degree. Anyway, the, I mean, there was a, the, the, the, the Austrians has kind of civilized Bosnia and Bulgaria and so on, or the areas that they had in the Balkans, but their officials are increasingly subject to assassinations, and these assassinations, these assassinations were actually trained in Russia, or they had links to Russia, Russian sponsored the Balkans assassins. And the

assassination of Franz Ferdinand, who was a peacnik, who wanted to give voting rights to the Serbian minority in Bosnia, and actually sort of create, and create, because Serbia was both a population, which had a lot of people in Austrian Empire and an independent country right next door. The Serbs would have their main weapon of nationally, it was knocked out of their hands, because the Bosnian Serbs had much higher living standards. So they hated a peacnik as he was coming to the throne. So they assassinated him. The point is this assassination, and not many people know this, was at least approved of, if not planned, by the Russians. The Russians sponsored an organization called the Black Hand, which trained and organized the assassins like Gavril Princep and the young

teenagers. It was a, it was a kind of what you call it, it's a false flag or whatever. The Austrians asked, they had their suspicions that it wasn't just a 19-year-old Bosnian student who killed They asked if they could investigate the murder in Serbia, and they placed an ultimatum that they required they do that in July 1914. The Austrian said, supported by the French and the Russians, who were basically ready to challenge the Germans, who had guaranteed Austria and said, no, don't sign that on. The British and the world press reported this as the Austrians wanting to make completely unreasonable demands of the Serbs, and it's actually very reasonable. So Austria declared war on Serbia because after the 10 years of assassinations of Austrian officials by Serbs. And they just had enough, you know, because they felt if we don't do something.

And they had a guarantee, a war guarantee from Germany in the bag. The Serbs, meanwhile, had a guarantee from the Russians. So these relatively small actors, Austria was the least of the great powers, was drawing. into war with Serbia and everyone else was brought in at the same time. But the British and the French and the Russians wanted this because never in other history would they have such a chance to squash the Germans because it was a power game. It was about who's going to be the boss of Europe because the British had a big fleet which could blockade the Germans and they could easily seize the German few colonies they had. The French and the Russians had big armies. The French and the

Russians thought they would be in Berlin by Christmas and it was actually an offensive. The first wars were fought on German territory. The Belgian invasion, which we hear so much about in the Anglo media and the Anglo books, was a part of it, but it was almost like a counterattack. So, but it all, I mean, the German troops were much, much better than the French and the Russian military thought. The Russian and the French basically lost those battles. So it wasn't Berlin by Christmas 1914. They failed. And so we had this trench warfare. But the point is, it's when you read that, it completely, it's like, I don't know, it's like 9-11 or something. You think, my God, everything we've been taught. And British historians still tell that story

today is completely wrong. Basically, it was a power game. And it's interesting because the Chinese are studying, apparently their whole university departments, which study World War. one because there's something called the Thucydides trap, which is when a country is rising, your rivals are rising, you've got to either accept that they're going to overtake you or you knock them out before they become too powerful. And the Thucydides trap was coined, I think. I don't know my ancient history very well, but it was an ancient Greek historian who said it was Sparta versus Athens. And I think Athens was the rising power, I could be wrong, versus Sparta. And Sparta, when made war on Athens before Athens became too powerful and challenged Sparta.

It could be the other way around anyway. But the fuscidity, you can Google it. There's a historian from Harvard who wrote a whole book about examples of the Cucydides trap. The British wanted to knock out Germany before it became too powerful in Europe. And that's what it came down to. And the Chinese are studying it because they say, well, how can we avoid the Americans attacking us before we become too powerful.

So it's a kind of well-known phrase. And I think it wasn't a good versus evil at all. And the Americans who, lest we forget, I mean, we think of Margaret Thacker and Tony Blair and their love-ins with George Bush and Ronald Reagan as the eternal allies, special relationship with the Canadians kind of bobbing on. It's not true.

The Brits were bitterly hostile to the Americans throughout the 19th century. And as said, as Matthew, our common friend Matthew Erritt says, you know, the Russians who saved American independence because the Brits wanted to use the Confederacy to kill the independence-minded unionists and because they wanted America to be a kind of slave state to the British Empire. And they failed in that. And then they tried the same thing on Germany.

So, yeah, does that answer some of your questions? I'm going through quickly. I am If you look at Russia-Ukraine today And you hadn't been paying attention You could wake up one day and realize Holy crap are we going to World War III But then if you look at the last decade

You can just see How it slowly or very quickly escalates Whichever way you want to put it And when you go back to World War I You know tons of people talk about France Ferdinand And then that sets off the powder keg but if you look at how the powder keg is set up uh you you go i think what i'm taking from you is you have all these different rival nations vying for control of certain areas yeah and that

takes a decade maybe longer to slowly set up and it might seem slow at the time but realistically it's very fast you know i don't look at a decade of time anymore as this long period of time It's actually a short period of time in the world history and almost a blink of an eye. And you can just see these events slowly start to shape to where one event, a false flag, uh, sets off in motion something that can't be undone. And one of the things that's been interesting, you know, if you fast forward to Russia, Ukraine, with the ability of media today, like this conversation and others, they've, they've tried different things to like really ramp it up.

And then people come on and talk about it from all walks of life in different areas of the world, kind of putting a little bit of water on the fire, so to speak, to maybe be like, wait, are we really going to do this? And there's more and more information like that coming out. That's the one difference I see today versus the beginning of the 19th century is, you know, like, where were you getting your news from back then? And you were just seeing aggression. And aggression was then met with what was perceived as,

the probably proper aggression or proper counter actions towards that to try and stomp it out. And that leads into what happens in World War I and people going off to die for their respective countries. And I guess I just take from you, that wasn't one day, which shouldn't shock anyone. That was a series of events that spanned a decade, maybe longer. That's right. I mean, countries, and it required a lot of. of actors. I mean, it's a bit like electricity or something. You need logic gates. Everything seems to be going at the same time. So you need belligerent leaders in major powers in power at the

same time. And like France, for instance, had a really belligerent leader in the summer of 1914. But he was going to lose power when another guy got into, he was expected to enter offer in September 1914. And then the war would have been off. So if you were going to lose power, so if conspiratorial to say that that assess I mean I think the Russians conferred with the French and say we need this war to start in the summer of 1914 because if it comes to the autumn a guy called Cahill who becomes Prime Minister and he was allied with Jean Goress who's a famous socialist and they were absolutely not going to have a war with Germany so it needs everything all systems goes all green lights all all leaders

need to be all people in power need to be want the war and I think the that, as you said, I mean, it takes a long time for the resentments to build up. And everyone is greedy, you know, I mean, everyone has a local motive and then the universal motive. And many times, I mean, let's say the war, the conflict with Germany started not in 1914 and started in 1900. And there are so many near misses for war. I mean, we're at war, it could have broken out in 1904. It could have broken it out in 1908. It could have broken out in 1999.

And the newspapers piled in with their hatred of the other side. And you see the headlines in the same papers. It's the daily mail and the daily mirror and so on. The same pompous sentiment, you know, the same massive exaggeration. Every factory chimney in Germany is a gun pointed at the heart of every patriotic Englishman, that sort of thing, you know. And what you had was a population. who were believed what they read.

I mean, if we think our populations are naive. I mean, can you imagine you're the first generation that has universal literacy, your parents were sort of farm workers, you know, and maybe you've just put on a suit or something and you're working in a factory. You have no idea. Huge class system in the UK.

Your superiors were gods, you know, and what they said was the truth. And we didn't have, so obviously there was no internet. And there wasn't much else to do. So, I mean, this is a generation that was like, their parents had bear baiting on cockfights. I mean, it was a different level of kind of violence, you know. And people believed, or they believed the church.

The church was all in favor of war, you know? So it's, and the middle classes were all in favor of war because they thought it was all going to be short and sweet, you know, we're going to be in Berlin by Christmas. And it's, I. I don't know. Funnily enough, I mean, you could, that you probably analyze World War I one in a sociological way. I mean, that wars, I mean, the last person who had any memory of the Napoleonic wars long since dead, why are these conflicts rising now with Russia? Because I did a lot of research and I wrote a book about the Cold War in the 1980s,

which is my early teen generation. And you realize that the language, in diplomatic dispatches, despite Margaret Thakshire being quite a sort of, you know, she was a tough cookie. She was much more restrained than we see today. And even the newspapers, I remember, I read a lot of newspapers, New York Times and so on, they're much more restrained. And I thought, well, that's because if you were, let's say, in 1970, 1983 was supposed to be the coldest year of the second cold war, you know, in the 1980s. If you were 60 in 1983, you would have been a young lieutenant fighting on the Western Front in World War II. And so, factious cabinet was full of people

who'd seen people dying in front of them and suffered shell shock and all the rest of it. And so that was that restraint. People like Eisenhower, Kennedy, you know, they knew what war was. Now we're led by apparatchiks and morons. We have no experience of war whatsoever. And they think maybe it's a kind of video game or something.

I mean, we have a really, really terrible political class all over the West. people who kind of rose through the system, I think, maybe the diversity. We lived in peace. We've lived in a very easy life. And most clever people probably went into banking or something that paid a lot better. So it was the weird people who went into politics or something. And now they're sitting in.

They don't even know. I mean, somebody said, Karen Knaissel, who was an Austrian foreign minister, is actually an academic. She says, when I was going to all these EU summits, you know, it didn't even occur to people to consult history books or to talk to historians. I mean, some people, if they were modest, they say, well, actually, I don't remember my history. Maybe we should talk some of my historians. But the thought didn't even occur to them that history might repeat itself and what can we learn from history. And it's worrying in their 30s and 40s and so on.

I mean, in my day, in Thaksha's time, you'd be 60 or 70 before you became foreign minister. you'd have 30 or 40 years as a diplomat first. Now, you get fast-tracked and you become an MP at 38, and then two years later, you're a foreign secretary of a big power like Britain. Ridiculous. So they don't know anything about anything. And it's because we're also two generations away from war. So there's not that folk memory of the devastation caused that wars can cause.

So if you, if, sorry, Pelley, if, You know, when you look at today, you know, I first met Tom and Alex and started having them on regularly. You know, like you had Nord Stream, you had other things happening. You had the West going, oh, this is going to be a quick, we're going to end this real fast. You know, none of that has come true. Like this is, you know, years later now. You know, just this week, Donald Trump announced the United States will be immediately resuming nuclear weapons testing for the first time since 1990. breaking a 33-year moratorium on explosive nuclear tests,

and you go, maybe we're out of this. And then you hear that, and you're like, maybe we're not. Like maybe this is, you know, when you talk about First World War,

it could have happened in 1904, could happen in 1908, could have happened in 1909. It takes until 1914 to finally pop off. And then when it goes, it goes. And, you know, like, I think there's a ton of people.

I don't know of anybody that's really, pro war in my audience. It's like, yeah, we need to go. Let's go to war. It's like most people are, I don't want to go to war. Certainly not with drones and nuclear bombs and precision missiles and on and on and on it goes. But then, you know, maybe maybe it's just jockeying position. You got Trump announcing they're going to start nuclear testing again. Or do you, do you hear that and go, no, we're getting closer to, you know, like the unreasonable people getting their way? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I listen to a lot of those shows, and I read a lot, far more than it's good for my health, really. And people have, in the alternative media community, have dissenting views. I mean, people like Alex Criner still believe that Trump is playing 5D chess. But even people, some people who support Trump think that he's basically just winging it, and you can't have that kind of approach. He listens to the last guy he spoke to because he never reads briefing papers. He works very hard, you know, he never

sleeps. But someone once said of the Russian Tsar, he's like a pillow. The last person who sat on him is the one who leaves an impression, right? And so maybe something that's true that Trump seems to listen to the last guy and he thinks it's like a big business deal and he taxed quickly and he goes, reverses himself and he's always on the go, always kind of winging it. And he thinks it doesn't plan, kind of asks basic questions. I mean, in a way, maybe it's refreshing and maybe it's good. But you, I don't know. I mean, the, I mean, I'm actually been a defender of Trump. I mean, I think, for instance, bullshitting and exaggerating and taking the win can actually create maybe a momentum. I mean, and maybe he says he wants to close a deal and then move on and say

everything's good. And that kind of covers up for all the bad things. I mean, in some ways, you say, well, the Germans and the French had to forget their history. I mean, I'm kind of contradicting myself because after World War II, basically we grew up in Europe in a sort of consumer society, heavily Americanized. And basically, Germans and French grew to not love each other, but at least to like each other. And it was very politically correct and very sort of, I don't know, nauseating in some ways. you know, you had these common cabinet meetings, you had student exchanges and you had schools, which taught French and German at the same time. And the whole European community was basically, the European Parliament is in Strasbourg, which was this contested city, was basically how,

because, I mean, what, there's a lot wrong with the European Union, but we must not forget that in 1945, clever people were saying, for God's sake, we've got to, we destroyed each other twice. What can we do? Well, let's try this now. And so, they, pool their common war making capabilities, which is their steel making capability and coal. And then out of that grew the European Union. So although it's nauseating, all this kumbaya, shaky hand, love and political correctness and yoking together of cultures that don't have a lot in common, the original motivation was how can we stop Europe's produced so much, but we just can't prevent each other from killing each other. So that's what I'm saying is, but Europeans and the anti-nationalist

aspect of the European Union. We mustn't forget that the original impetus for that was that we must forget our history and become a new homo-Europeanus in a way to stop ourselves from killing each other. Well, maybe the, I forgot I was going to say. So Trump comes out of that a little bit. I mean, he doesn't know about the historical details. Putin lectures him. This is what happened in 1463. And Trump doesn't want to know that. He says, right, he doesn't care about the Palestinian. He doesn't care about the Palestinian and Jewish resentments. He said, well, let's build a casino in Gaza because he thinks that prosperity will solve all problems. And maybe we need that.

I don't know. So I think that, but on the other hand, I mean, he is also under enormous pressure from the neocons, even in his cabinet. I mean, Marco Rubio and the Atlantic Council and people like Lindsay Graham. I mean, apparently, I guess he's always afraid of being impeached, you know. So he's tried, some people think he's like throwing out bits of shaft, you know, like, you know, when planes are evading electronic warfare, you throw out strips of aluminium to stop electronic warfare from taking you down. Well, he's always running away from his pursuers in a way. So if, I think what's interesting is that talking about the British Empire, you know, the Russiagate scandal is kind of being rolled. rolled up now in Washington. Obama's been to London three times the last couple of weeks.

And they're rumours that, you know, maybe James Comey has been indicted that they're going to basically jail all these people who were responsible for Russia again, which destroyed Trump's first term. And maybe the Brits are often accused of being part of this. It was the Brits and MI6, it was CIA, it was Hillary Clinton, it was Obama. And why is Obama going to London if he's not afraid of something? Is he talking to his British allies to see what he's going to do? So it could be that Trump really is going to take out that neocons and the warmongers. He just needs the time to roll up the networks and then keeping the world from plunking

into the World War III in the meantime. That's my optimistic take on it. you know sitting in Sweden Sweden became part of NATO in 2024 I'm always curious like did the Swedes care about that were they pumped about it were they like this is a great thing did did anybody even talk about it no it's very bad I mean the Swedes boast of being the world's best democracy in the world's I mean world's best everything basically and um um um um I think, I mean, about 60% of population, Sweden was neutral for 200 years, like Switzerland, the country with which it's often confused, and profited mightily by being neutral.

I mean, it sold war equipment to both sides and took in a lot of Jews, for instance, in World War II. It had only neon lights on, well, London was blacked out and Berlin was blacked out. Stockholm was a cascade of open restaurants and lots to do there, you know, spy games going on there. The Swedes done well out of not being invaded. They've never been invaded ever in a thousand years. And I say, I mean, it's a country with a 1,200 year history or something, you know. They've been invaded, never been occupied. The Swedes have occupied others, but not too much of that.

And they basically, they were like the Canadian, I would say the Canadians, famous for UN engagement, for always having diplomats, could talk to all sides. and that was the core part of the Swedish identity. But suddenly, I mean, it was like almost a coup. I mean, before the Russian invasion, I'd say about two-thirds of the Swedish population wanted to stay out of NATO. And then like a few months later,

it went down by 20 or 30%. Now, I'm old enough to think that, you know, with opinion polls you can prove anything you want. And there was no, there was a simple parliamentary vote and there was no referendum, there was almost no discussion on it. The media were completely in the tank for NATO. I mean, so I think it was, I mean, I think these media are heavily involved with the deep state, if you like.

I mean, they have good connections to the psychological warfare units of the Swedish military. And the banner headlines, which are sold in supermarket kiosks, I'd say out of 600 in the last two or three years, Two-thirds, three-quarters of them had Putin in the headline. I mean, basically, Swedes are told that, well, the invasion is going to happen any time. So it's basically shock. The invasion happened. A public few opinion polls that said that Swedes wanted it. The Swedes are pretty passive anyway.

And the media wore all in Finato, and Sweden just went in like that, you know. And people are still a bit shell-shocked and stunned. And this country, which in the 1980s, was able to rustle up hundreds of thousands of people in peace marches. I mean, there was a big feminist march from Stockholm to Paris to demonstrate against nuclear missiles in 1981. I went to an anti-NATO march, as a short time ago, six people turned up, all of whom were over 70, you know, because it's the over-70s or part of that generation who remember war or remember the other Cold War. no young people at all. So, and I've got some friends for something called the dissident club, which is a couple of guys

who host a podcast where they invite in a few, that few retired diplomats who give a more nuanced view of the conflict. And they've invited in some of the Anglo commentators, people like the Meersheimers of this world, to tell the sort of benighted Swedish Scandinavian population. And they, they, one guy, he was working as a theater producer. He lost his job because he was called a Putinist. So there is, there's a lot of that. I know, I've had on my show several people who'd lost their jobs.

So there's this very narrow opinion corridor on the subject. And I think some people worry that the Scandinavians, the Finns are even worse, apparently, and of course they're directly neighboring Russia. being set up for um to be the next ukraine you know uh because the brits you know on their other side of europe the canadians the americans could sit there and they can send countries that close to them i mean it's the war is real in a way if you're living i mean um right now i'm like 200 miles away from kellin ingrad which is this russian enclave in next to poland um 300 miles away from from the Lithuanian-Belarusian borders.

In America, what, is it 5,000 miles away? So it's a totally different geographical reality here. I mean, people feel that the war is quite close. A lot of Ukrainian refugees here, Russians and Ukrainians in the supermarkets quite a lot. But almost, although, I mean, I'd say it's by far the most threatening and important issue in Europe at the moment. I mean, it's like a poison cloud. hangs over everything, you know. And, um, but there's almost, I mean, the, the, the North Americans have a much, much more rational and open debate about the war in Europe.

We're sunk into this totally propagandistic situation, you know, totally. And it hasn't swung yet. I'm so, I mean, I think some people, um, listen to, speak English, listen to the Mearsheimers and, and, and, and, um, the Joe Rogans and Elon Musk. I mean, even he's been critical of the wars and has started to change their minds. But most people have families and jobs, you know, they come home in the evening and they switch on the media, the state television, and they watch that for 10 minutes. And that's their truth, you know. So you would say the Swedish population on whole, for the most part, was pro-NATO, even if it was government-sponsored propaganda to make them one. want to think that was a good idea. They're on the whole against Putin and Russia and what they're

doing, which means they're pro-Ukraine and pro-Ukrainian populace. But as I said, it's almost it's almost impossible to make an informed assessment when you're subjected to the propaganda because only one side of the argument is presented. And the, I don't know if, I mean, you can dislike Putin and still want to stay neutral. I don't necessarily trust. I'm skeptical of everything. I don't necessarily trust those opinion polls. It was done at haste.

If you're going to do something, do it quickly. And that's what happened. All the political parties were co-opted. No discussion of the pros and cons. And actually, they're breaking against the Swedish constitution because officially you're supposed to have two successive votes in two different parliaments when making changes of the importance that this included,

because it's required rewriting Sweden's constitution because Sweden's neutrality was enshrined in the constitution. But they ignored that, you know, and there weren't enough journalists. Journalists tend to be young and experienced at one with the political class. And they didn't, and so it didn't get any traction this idea. I mean, yeah. But. Well, I was just going to say, like, you know, sitting here in Canada, one of the things that really put Sweden on a ton of people's radar is how they handle COVID, right? That's right. They were open.

You know, I did, once again, you're the guy sitting there. But like the information we got on this side of the pond was Sweden was the most outspoken, but they drawed a lot of criticism for how they handled COVID. And yet people in my circle were applauding them like going, holy man. Why can they do that? And then it's like, and all of a sudden they're a part of NATO. It's like, wait, what? Like, aren't this?

Like, how can they be the people who are staring at COVID going, no, no, we're not going to do it like the rest of the world, like the rest of the West? And then all of a sudden, the next thing comes and they follow lockstep into NATO and everything against Putin and everything else. Like those two things actually don't seem like they should go together. I agree. I agree. And I can't work it out either.

I mean, I remember COVID was made no difference to our lives in Sweden. I mean, the restaurants were all open. And I remember Skyping my friends in the UK and sort of saying, you know, cheers. We're sitting here in a restaurant, you know. I know that you're sitting on the 50th floor of your flat and you're only allowed to walk. Everything was open. The cafes were open, restaurants. were open, traveled, did whatever you wanted. And Sweden had the lowest mortality rate net.

I never saw a person in March. Never, no lockdowns, no masks, no, school closures. No school, well, there's school closures. I think the high, I think the high schools would close. I'm going to, I'm exaggerating a little bit because there were like the restrictions on groups larger than 50 or something. But it didn't impact our lives on it, maybe because I live in a small town. It seemed pretty normal. It's the most normal place in the entire world, apart from Belarus apparently, because he didn't, Lukashenko didn't believe it either. The Swedes got it exactly right.

They're the lowest mortality rate, the lowest economic hit of any country and the most liberal, most least restrictions, you know. And this, it was Sweden's finest hour. And NATO is just, which followed on a year later. I can't work it out. Well, one thing I could say is something. like this that that maybe I mean because the the COVID response in much of Europe at least was coordinated by the defense ministries I mean it was taken it was a military type operation right

and some people said that the COVID was a so all these things about lockdowns and so on it was like the military realized that they put in plan the kind of operation that had been discussed in the case of a biological weapons attack from Russia or something and And so everything was run through the, and this very authoritarian thing was much because it was the military and NATO coordinated it. Well, maybe NATO thought, well, these Swedes are showing us all up. We've got to better bring them in and we're going to apply all our psychological weaponry and know-how into making sure that the Swedes are not free. So in a way, maybe one follows the other. I mean, the Swedes were like the little boy and the emperor's new clothes, which is Danish short story, by the way, saying, look, look at all the other.

everyone else is living this lie and we're free and everything works and the Swedes had to be quashed somehow but it's it's sad i mean they're just they although they were it's it's bizarre because they were i had people talking about the propaganda that other countries were suffering and then they fell for the same propaganda tricks just a year later on the russia ukraine conflict it's quite incredible i mean it's good the i said well you were skeptical a year ago what what you're told in the newspapers and foreign newspapers. The Guardian, for instance, said, we once loved Sweden because it was a feminist paradise and now it's really disappointed us. You'd laughed at the Guardian then, but when it's talking about Russia, it's suddenly the gospel, you know, they lie all the time,

the newspapers. You knew this a year ago. Why have you forgotten it? Are you crazy? I can't work it out. It probably just shows how impressive propaganda really is. Because, I mean, don't don't get me wrong here in in canada you know if if you stood up against all the COVID nonsense a ton of those people think we should support Ukraine full stop right like uh just because you do one doesn't mean you lead to the next yeah it's just you know as the i don't know i might be stealing your words but certainly from where i said it was it looked like the freest nation during all the COVID insanity and you would think that would breed people staring at the world going, what are they doing? What is happening here? Like common sense or

critical thinking maybe. And so when they try and, well, now we need to align with all of those nations to go against the enemy, you'd think they go, wait a second, isn't this the country that just locked all of its people down when we weren't doing that and they called us bad and they were right? And then, you know, as more information comes out, we were absolutely right and everything we did. You'd think that people would just stare at that and go, something's off here. Like, this doesn't make any sense. And yet, now you've joined NATO. And whether or not that was, you know, you mentioned them kind of going around what

Parliament and Sweden was supposed to do and how they're supposed to proceed and how quickly they did it. Maybe, I don't know. That seems surprising to me. It was a coup, basically. I mean, we tend to think of coups as being, you know, a guy with twirling moustache. seizing the radio station and then making a speech or something, right? Stuck in this idea of Latin America in the 1950s,

but coups can carry out in many different ways. And I think what happened in 2024 was a kind of coup. It happened quickly. People were still in shock, you know. It's this idea of if you shock, if you frighten people, you shock them, and then act quickly, the resistance. I mean, I think what's happened is, of course, I think the war in Ukraine, the Russians were thought to be beatable.

I mean, I think that the West had prepared these sanctions from hell that they thought was going to squash Russia. So it wouldn't turn into this protracted war. So Russia would be defeated by the opposition could rise. And I think what's happened in parts of the Anglo world, at least, I mean, all the clever people are right have a much more considered view. I mean, let's say you could be pro-Ukraine. or pro-Russian, but at least we should be able to discuss these things.

Just from life experience, you know that things are more grey than we think. But you don't get that. And I forgot what I was going to say. Yeah, it's really strange. And I think that part of it, I mean, Sweden has this family, the Wallenbergs, who run everything. and you know Saab cars. Well, Saab, you know Volvo cars. No.

Okay, Saab and Volvo. You're throwing out new names that I've never heard. Okay. Volvo is the most famous Swedish carmaker, and Saab was the other famous Swedish carmaker. Volvo. Is that what you said? Okay, sorry, yes.

Okay, yes. It was the kind of left-wing professor's car of choice, you know. I remember seeing films in Hollywood in the 1980s. Whenever he wanted to show that a guy was wore his heart on his sleeve, he was driving a Volvo station wagon. I mean, it was a big, anyway, but the Swedes, the Saab also made jet fighters. So Sweden has quite a big military industry, and because it's a small country,

and neutrality prevented it from selling its weaponry to warring countries. I think there was a strong military-industrial complex lobby that pushed for the NATO decisions. So that's another reason. But then, I mean, Sweden has a big medicine sector as well. And they pushed for acceptance of vaccines and lockdowns. And they were not successful in that. So I don't know. It's it's it's it's it's it is saddening in a way.

One other, well, I guess not. Another thing that that that on this. side that I you know once again very curious of a guy sitting looking at Sweden while in Sweden you know one of the you know like immigration is hit I don't know every country or certainly every Western country and one of the articles I'd read on Sweden is they were willing to basically pay for immigrants to go back home do yeah do do do Swedish people like I assume you've noticed the level of immigration that's come into Sweden. Is that a big conversation?

Like, what is the hot? Yeah. It's a, it's a bit less taboo than it used to be. But I think many towns around Sweden are saying we're not going to be part of this deportation scheme. But Sweden is, I made a film about it actually called Sweden Dying to be Multicultural. You can find it on YouTube. And I think I was ostracized by that. for that but and and sorry sorry pelle what was it called sweden dying to be multicultural okay and

why were you ostracist what did you well because i was saying well i mean basically i'm an outsider so i can say everything you know uh but swedes you know they have their little jobs and their little stable existences and they don't want to rock the boat because i think a lot of their jobs i mean there's There's a lot of bullshit jobs in Sweden. And the, you know, consultancy and people working in the public sector and so on. And ideology becomes the most important thing. Because if anyone could do a bullshit job, then to show that you still justify staying in the job, you have to be ideologically correct, you know, because you could be replaced

by somebody, if anyone could do the job, sitting around drinking coffee all day long and making a few decisions. So I think we're living in the West where in Europe at least, jobs, ideology becomes an important marker for your suitability for work for a job. And so again, this contrast to the COVID thing, right, where Sweden got it right. I remember a few years ago, you couldn't, I mean, people were so careful. I mean, think of the worst taboo you can think of, you know. I mean, taboo, you can think of. I mean, taboo, in all Western society. Immigration was like that, you know. I don't know, death, incest, or something like that. You just didn't talk about it, even though you could see on the street,

you just walk out on the street here. And I traveled a lot in Europe recently. And I say Sweden is much more affected by immigration than any other country I've seen, you know. I think that some of the stories are exaggerate. I mean, the thing is you've got to get it right. The thing is, what I got wrong in my film, which was very popular, watched by several million people, was I talked about you know, massive surge in violence. Actually, the Swedish murder rate is 1.2 or something, but 100,000, which is probably lower than Canada's and it went up from 0.8 and it's gone down a bit. So actually, there hasn't been that, there's been a gang violence where immigrants, young immigrants, males, shoot at each other. But it doesn't result in deaths. It's actually relatively

restricted. So actually some of the the online rights critique of Sweden is not, it goes too far. I mean, you can walk out in the street and you're not going to be raped. Women can walk out and so on. It's not on the brink of civil war. It still feels prosperous and and but there's, it doesn't feel Swedish, that's for sure. I mean, you can get on any bus and an awful lot of headscarves, you know. And it's, um, and an all white Sweden was a country that absolutely worked, you know, because it was a high trust society. Everyone, um, spoke. Everyone knew each other. I mean, not everyone knew everyone. Everyone was like as a quiet nationalism. We're going to, they had very high taxes, always had high taxes. But you're only willing to pay those high

taxes when you feel that that money goes towards people of your background, basically. That's the crude thing. And there's an interesting survey in America. in the United States, the states that had the most white population, the least diversity, were the ones, was the largest acceptance for taxes. In other words, it's an unfortunate and cruel fact of life. People don't want to pay taxes to people who would not like them. And so the more diverse Sweden becomes, the less likely people go on to pay their taxes, the more people cheat.

And so once Sweden was the most peaceful, the most honest, the most law-abiding, and heavily taxed society in the world. That's kind of breaking apart now. And it's often the same kind of, I don't know, what you call mainstream Republicans or mainstream conservatives who are pushing both things. You know, I mean, the neocons, you know, the open borders, people,

often the people who want war, you know, invade the world, invite the world. Yeah. Invade the world, invite the world. I don't know if I've ever heard that before. Yeah, you know, people, so, so, you know, You bomb other countries and then, but I mean, I'd rather, I'm an isolationist, you know, I don't believe that you can really bomb another country to democracy.

Let me put it this way, you know, let's say during the Tony Blair government, Tony Blair said, we've got to encourage the Middle East to become democratic. So you made war on the Middle East, right, killing millions of people. But as soon as they come in, and then that's set off refugee flows. But as soon as these refugees, these Muslim refugees come into your country, they're almost as protective species. You're not allowed to criticize them. You're not allowed to criticize Islam. But when they're on their site in their countries, you kill them.

Much better to leave those countries alone and then not have mass immigration. Is it not? Yeah. Well, I would agree with you. I guess it's just a very simple but important thought. right like you're right we go in we destroy them all and then we go oh by the way come here and and then of course it's like um you know you you it's like you it's like you you um set fire to a wasp's nest outside your window and then you open the windows and then the wasps come in

and then you say hey so I mean I've this is so bad they're just stinging me it's not a big deal yeah right I mean I'm much less critical I used to be critical immigrants I'm not anymore I can pay place most of the popular I've become more left wing in that respect you know they are what people are like they are everywhere in the world they're grifters they want to get ahead but we all want to get ahead but the point is if you attack them and kill them and then let them in they're going of course they're going to feel resentful and put that who's who's at fault here surely it's the politicians who do these things right yeah anyway so

Sweden I mean is I think there's a, Sweden was one of the first countries that embraced this kind of globalism, if you like, which is now getting pushed back from everywhere in the world. This idea that we have open borders and culture doesn't matter. I mean, cultures do matter. Some cultures are very disciplined and law abiding. Well, I would go, cultures do matter. It's just they select which culture matters right now.

So when you talk about, we bomb them in their own country for their views, but when they come here, they're protected species. That is the contradiction, right? Like that is what happened. They choose what cultures matter inside your own country. And anywhere else, culture be damned. Yeah, right. Exactly.

So I think, yeah, but I mean, Sweden is, I was in the UK a few months ago and the atmosphere in London is much more explosive. I think the British are more put upon. I mean, they've had more immigration recently per capita. And it's as much smaller country physically. I mean, England, I mean, Scotland and Wales are relatively empty, but England is like a quarter of the size of Sweden geographically, 123,000 square kilometres. I mean, that's probably, I don't know, what's the side of Canada, nine million? It's like Canada's 80 times. bigger than England, right? And Sweden is five times bigger than England. So if you drive one hour from where I live, there's not a single person, it's just forest all the way up to the

Arctic Circle. But England is just, it's like a ribbon development all the time everywhere. And if you've added two or three million people to the population, mostly living in the London area, it's like three Manchester's on top of London's population. So there is a hostility there, Britain. So maybe Britain will have a have some change before Sweden. Sweet's kind of passive in a way. I mean, the passive you talk about reminds me in Canada. Right. It just, it sounds very, we're just a passive, uh, trusting society, right? And it's worked for a long time. And then you get to where we are today and that trust has been abused and people have, um, basically, like you say, they're working people, they've got families, they're just trying to provide for their

family, et cetera, et cetera. And that has been worked around. It's, you know, they found a way to use that against the population. Yeah. And Canada's a bit different from the United States, isn't it? I mean, America, it's like America is the country that broke free from the paternal grip somehow. And Canada never did that, you know. And, um, it's a bit different. And, um, I, you know, because I wonder what, because Canada's identity is predicated on not being American. So how can you break three from the mother country without becoming American? You know, there's a paradox there, isn't it? Yes, sir.

Maybe you don't want to break free from the mother country. Because I think the people like Alex Criner would say that the British Empire lives on, right? And the Canadians and the Australians, when the chips are down, you know, they'll send troops to Ukraine because the Brits tell them to, you know, crazy idea. and Mark Carney is a British asset, you know, worked to the Bank of England and globalist, transgender kids and all that. And Canada, so what do you think? I mean, how, where should Canada go vis-a-vis this? Because of the British Empire, I mean, the British Empire's always moved people around, right?

So the British settled Indians in the Caribbean, they settled Indians in the Pacific, they settled settled. Settled Indians in the South Africa. So all these places with minorities, they've settled in the 1890th century as, I don't know, sugar, cotton pickers or sort of sugar cane cutters or whatever. Empires don't care about people.

It's all about power. And in a way, the modern empire, the globalist empire, which is kind of people like Alex Crine, I think it's like London and Washington. They move people around as well. It's just exploitation. They don't care about their own domestic.

and in a way Canada's been a victim of this kind of imperial mindset, and you've lost your indigenous culture somehow. I don't know. What do you think? When I look at Canada, I just think there's the West and then there's the East. There's just two distinct ways of looking at the world, two different distinct ways of looking at government.

And where I sit in Alberta, there is a conversation that is ongoing of how do we rectify Canada or how do we get out of Canada? Because there's just, it's an ideological difference. There's two different ways of looking at the world or looking at the country. And Alberta sees the problems and the East, and I know there's a lot of Eastern listeners,

but majority of the East doesn't see that. They see a beautiful country that's working perfectly, and the West doesn't see it that way. And so where does that go? I mean, there's talk of referendum of vote for independence, separation, use your word you want. And do we get there? Will that happen?

Will the global actors that, you know, we've been talking about now for an hour find their way into this? They probably already have. Do they want Alberta to break away? No, because if Alberta breaks away, what does that do for Canada as a country? Well, it breaks it all apart. I think you can, you know, when you look at the engine of Canada, where does a ton of that come from? Not all Alberta.

It's not everything isn't on Alberta, but Alberta is a good chunk of it. And if they were to break away, that would set in motion a dominole fall for all of Canada that wouldn't be able to be stopped. So, you know, like where does it go? I don't know, but there is two different mindsets. well so i mean do you think i mean canada you've got um you know enormous natural resources are you i guess you're a net taxpayer into the canadian so you're you losing alberta would mean canada be poorer i mean they'd have to fill up shortfall wouldn't they full stop yes i said maybe you should work with quebec and you can tear a canada apart from different directions i don't

Yeah, I mean, if you only have one front to fight, Alberta, can it succeed? Well, I mean, yes, but it'll be more difficult. If there's multiple fronts and Quebec has its own separation movement growing, now you have to split your forces and stare at two different provinces. And, you know, Quebec, the one party that is, is leading in the polls is a separatist party. They want to. And, you know, what is, where does that go?

I don't have a crystal ball. I can't, I can't see that far ahead. I can just watch what's happening and, you know, and see the different things. When you talk about Mark Carney and where his allegiance lies, it, it seems pretty plain to me. It doesn't lie with Canada. It lies with, uh, different powers and different ideologies that serve a global agenda, not Canada's sovereignty. You probably need British Columbia with you, don't you?

Because you need a coast to be able to export your stuff. Yeah, it's one of the knocks on Alberta separatism as you'd be landlocked. And then you get into different rights of countries and a whole bunch of different things. How much would you come to rely on the United States? I mean, the United States is our largest trading partner as is. and Kearney and that group of folk in the government right now are making an enemy out of the United States full stop. They're making a mess of our relations with our largest border, our greatest ally for the entirety of this country. Some might call it the crown, but we've had a very good relationship with the United States.

and that is being tossed overboard, so to speak, right now. And they've made an enemy and adversary out of Donald Trump in the United States. Was the election next year? When was the Canadian election? Canadian election was earlier this year. Oh, yeah. Okay. Because that guy, Pollyere, was he?

Pierre. Was he a good? Well, I think most conservatives were surprised by the election result. you know, when we did our election night, um, live stream, we took, uh, before, before election results started coming in. We all, we all put down on a sheet our guesses at the election. Um, and I would say majority thought a conservative minority was going to win. Um, Pierre had everything blowing his way until Carney came in. And then they did the elbows up campaign and, and, uh, that really won over a ton of Eastern Canada in particular.

Uh, most thought Pierre had an, open net and missed his chance to score and and really change the direction of the country. I don't know. The politics here in Canada is funny to me because you can just see a giant divide. The West votes conservative and the East is more beholden to the liberals read, some NDP in Quebec. It's the block. The block wants nothing to do with running. the country. It's, it's strange, you know. And so you can just see it. It's just a growing divide of

West versus East, but that also gets, you know, like, then you bring in Russia, Ukraine. And I would say, I don't know, am I in the minority? I would assume I am. That just is like, I don't want to be sending money over to Ukraine. I certainly don't want to send any troops over to Ukraine. I certainly don't want World War. Do I sit here and go, Putin's the greatest human being under the sun? No, I don't think that. I just go, do we want to send millions off to be killed? For what? Well, you've got a lot of Ukrainian Canadians, don't you? Yes, we do, especially in Alberta. So it's not a very popular. I was on another Canadian show, actually, last year, a guy called Rick Walker. I felt that it wasn't very popular when I was kind of putting the Russian angle on things. Well, I tell you what, I brought

Tom Luongo and Alex Criner here to talk about Russia, Ukraine, and in 2023. And I remember realizing on stage that night that there was Ukrainian sitting in the audience. And it was kind of positioned me like, hey, maybe they should address the Ukrainians in the audience because we do have a great culture of Ukrainian people who've immigrated here and created life here.

And I didn't realize, you know, like call it naivity. I was just naive to the I just was trying to give information of like this isn't all it's built out to be and I didn't realize I was maybe putting myself in the crosshairs of you know like people are against Russia full stop that is the world

narrative that Russia is bad they're trying to take over all of Europe and that is what they're going to do yeah no I do think they're going to take over Europe at all I think that I mean the the the west and the east Ukrainians, I mean the east of Ukrainians are Russian speakers

and they joined up to the state of Ukraine after 1922 and Crimea only joined Russia and was joined together in 1954 because what the Russians that the Soviets did was that they wanted republics that had different minorities in them so that they could never unite in a nationalistic way against the Soviet Union. So it was a construction basically you know, I mean, if you had Russians and Ukrainians living, and of course, it was a kind of irrelevant thing because nobody predicted that the Soviet Union would collapse. But I mean, I think the hostility between Ukraine, let's say the West Ukrainians, maybe that was the majority who lived in Canada.

Even back when I was there in 2002, they were really, they hated the Russian speakers in East Ukraine and vice versa, you know. Peli, I appreciate you coming on. I can, I assume you have people. back home now and uh i i i i just i appreciate having somebody on from the other side of the world to kind of just you know like i i haven't been to sweden since uh 211 that was the last time i cross when i was playing hockey in finland we crossed over to the border into sweden a couple times and that isn't to say i got to travel the country a ton i didn't but um to have somebody on the other side, you know, and just share a viewpoint from what's happening in Sweden and different things. I really find important, and I appreciate you giving me some time today. And we can discuss,

you know, maybe in the future doing a few more things. But before I let you off, if people wanted to search out your documentary or find you online or find any of the work you're doing, where can they find you? Well, if they type in my name, my WordPress and my substack come up, and that's got links all my films and books. And if you watch, I think Sweden dying to be multicultural is on YouTube, it was had two million views at one point. Then it was taken down. We sold it to Amazon Prime. I made a film called Cancelnation, which is about the excesses of feminism, Scandinavia. And I've done lots of things, not only, and I did this World War I, but you'll see the link to that. I mean, that's my magnum opus. That's the thing I'm proudest of and took the most work. And it is

of importance. I mean, Canada, as I said, we've got a memorial, you got that Canadian poet who did, who wrote, Flandersfield. What's his name? Do you remember? No, that's terrible. I'm going, it's somebody screaming at the, uh, anyway, I, if you want to, I'd love to talk to you, but, yeah, John McCrae. I, uh, that's terrible. I should know that, but yes, in Flandersfield. Um, I don't know. I mean, always, I always shed a tear, sort of of when the date comes around because it's November and it's it's a very emotional thing. But the, I was going to say, yeah, I mean, I'd love to talk to you about the stay behinds

because it's the secret guerrilla partisan armies that control European politics, if you like. So it's like in a deep state, but with a kinetic component. And they were active in the Cold War. You can't understand the Cold War in Europe from 1945 and 1990. and all these mysterious assassinations of politicians who wanted to go against NATO. I'm sure the Russians did many, of course the Russians did bad things, but we need to know what the bad things that happened on our side as well. And then I think it's still very much alive today.

And politicians are constrained by what they can do and say because of these kind of secret armies. And I've got a guy who can talk about it from a Scandinavian perspective. But there are many, I can get others on. We could talk about it from an Italian perspective or British perspective and so on. So, yeah. Perfect. Well, Pellie, I appreciate you hopping on today. And we'll look forward to maybe a follow-up conversation, a roundtable. Any signs. I really enjoyed it. Really enjoyed reaching out to Canadians. And I'm very fond. And great to be on your show. You ask fantastic questions.

You really allow me to monologue at my heart's content. So I enjoyed it very much. Thank you. Thanks, Pelle. Thanks a lot. Bye.