Shaun Newman Podcast - #957 - Mike Robinson

Episode Date: November 25, 2025

Mike Robinson is the co-editor-in-chief of UK Column, an independent British alternative media outlet he has helped steer since 2008. A writer and commentator since the mid-1990s, he co-hosts the flagship daily UK Column News broadcasts alongside Brian Gerrish and a rotating team that includes Patrick Henningsen and Vanessa Beeley. Known for his calm, forensic style, Robinson regularly dissects government policy, digital IDs, CBDCs, NATO expansion, migration, information warfare, and what he sees as the erosion of national sovereignty by supranational bodies. Mike and UK Column remain entirely viewer-funded and refuse corporate or political advertising. Based in Plymouth yet speaking with a distinctly unfiltered voice, Robinson has built a dedicated international audience that views him as one of the UK’s last truly independent journalistic watchdogs.Tickets to Cornerstone Forum 26’: https://www.showpass.com/cornerstone26/Tickets to the Mashspiel:https://www.showpass.com/mashspiel/Silver Gold Bull Links:Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/Email: [e-mail] Grahame: [phone]Bow Valley Credit UnionBitcoin: www.bowvalleycu.com/en/personal/investing-wealth/bitcoin-gatewayEmail: [e-mail] Prophet River Links:Website: store.prophetriver.com/Email: [e-mail] the code “SNP” on all ordersGet your voice heard: Text Shaun 587-217-8500

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Substack. Make sure to subscribe. Make sure to leave a review. Yes, we've been publishing all the interviews on Substack now as well. You can get in on the conversation there. And yeah, just share with a friend if you're enjoying the show. All right, let's get on to that tale of the tape. Today's guest is the co-editor-in-chief of the UK column. I'm talking about Mike Robinson. So buckle up. Here we go. Welcome to the Sean Numa podcast. Today, I'm joined by Mike Robinson. Mike, thanks for hopping on today. It's my pleasure.

Now, you're a first timer on the show. Let's just, you know, tell the audience a little bit about yourself. Well, I'm currently working with an organization called the UK Column. We've been going since 2006. so next year is our 20th anniversary and that sort of began as a it was a group of people that got together because of what they saw as corruption

in the city of Plymouth in England and it began as an A4 sheet of paper that was distributed around the place and eventually became a newspaper and then we started doing daily news programs on the internet interviews and so on starting I guess in about 2013 or so and live events and things like this

and we stopped doing the newspaper I think in 2015 we're just about to launch a new magazine as we get back into print again but we've been going for nearly 20 years and although we started off covering very local stuff we we cover international news geopolitics the full full range of stuff now you got out of print and you're getting back into print what um I assume I understand why you got out of print maybe I you could walk me through that but you're getting back into print are you seeing a need for print again yeah I mean we we got out of print because at that time we frankly didn't have the money for it and and the the cost of

distribution was getting beyond what we could what we could cope with. And aside from that, we were increasingly interested in being a bit more, because that product was a monthly product at best. And so we were producing relatively long shelf life articles, but it wasn't sort of up-to-the-minute news. And that was more what we wanted to get into at that stage. Of course, since 2017 in particular, the British government of, it doesn't matter who the political party is, the British government has been working very hard to shut down any kind of dissenting voices on the internet. We've seen the way that the platforms have behaved. And so, you know, people have been looking to other non-internet. sources of information and so as you know there's clearly a market for for good quality content

in print again so we're we're going to we're going to give it a go and see what happens that is um funny is not the right word but it's it's it's almost funny because i'm like okay so you have the internet you can talk to anyone anyone can access everybody's got their phones everything U.K. government slowly making that way more difficult to operate and going back to a simple form of what they can censor on print. Am I oversimplifying that? No, not really. You know, the position of the British government and bearing in mind that this is Britain, we're talking about we like to export policies and ideologies abroad. We're seeing the same type of thing in the European Union and to a certain degree in the United States as well. But the idea is,

is, you know, you have freedom of speech, but not freedom of reach. So this is the mantra that they use. And so the idea is that you can say what you like, but of course, you'll be shadow banned or you'll be completely, anybody that attempts to share content, it won't sort of spread. That's what we've seen the social media companies doing increasingly. And of course, you know, it's much... I mean, there's a number of benefits to print, actually, because, you know, you leave, you leave something in a dentist waiting room or in a doctor surgery or whatever, and that sits

there, and lots of people get to see that. And so, you know, it's a good way of getting information out, which is maybe a bit more, it's not the sort of 30-second attention span stuff that we're seeing increasingly on on so on social media but more than that it it avoids the sort of AI version of of information which we're increasingly being bombarded with now yeah I I couldn't agree more it's it's it's just interesting to watch how it's changing in the UK for your for yourself in particular you know like I I think here in Canada, the adoption of online, I don't know, did it start massively in about 2022 right after the Freedom Convoy? I feel like people's perception of what was being told

to them really started to falter. And everybody has really increasingly turned to online to find out what's going on. And we always talk about the UK and Europe being months or years ahead of us and us being, you know, the trickle-down effect. And now I'm, you know, I'm hearing for the first time on this show how people are moving back to the physical because of all the things that are happening online. I mean, that's not to say that people have abandoned finding information online. That would be misrepresenting the situation, but there's clearly a desire for something additional to that and that's hopefully something that we're going to tap into. But, you know, there is a recognition

that information that people want to get is increasingly difficult to find online. Part of that is is because, you know, Google and other search engines are so taken over by advertising and so on that. In fact, Google now, you may have noticed, tense. It used to be that Google provided a search that had a long tail, so you could go through pages and pages and pages of results, and increasingly we're finding that Google's stopping that, maybe 10 pages or something like that. So, in fact, it's getting harder and harder to find.

the information that you want to find and so you know it's hopefully we will find a new niche with with a new product and we'll see we'll see what happens with us and but I'd like to see a lot more people producing physical content because it just has that that added you know it's in your hands it's there and it maybe has a little bit of extra credibility and in an increasingly AI world. Yeah, I'm going to be interested to hear how it goes for you. Going back to 2006 when you, when you started this, you said we started off, we were one to focus on local and then probably as I assume, but you can tell me, you started staring

at some things and then you started pulling on a couple strings and that maybe opened up to larger issues at play. Maybe could you walk me through that, you know, your first days, you know, coming up on 20 years my hat's off to you um that's an impressive uh feet uh to to have a continued source like that for that long but maybe just walk me through you know i'm on this end the reason why my brain goes there um mike is is i'm coming up on my thousandth episode here in a couple months and i didn't start out thinking oh i'm going to get to a thousand and all of a sudden i'm like holy crap that's that is coming up real fast i highly dope when you started in two thousand

you're like, oh, yeah, in 20 years we'll be talking about X. But maybe walk me through the journey of starting in 2006 till now and what you've seen. Well, just to clear this up, I didn't start until I didn't join until 2008. So the organization should be going for a couple of years before I joined. And I got in contact with this group because of, well, it's through a friend. The UK column had been looking in particular at an organization called Common Purpose here in the UK, which was describing itself as a leadership training organization. And what was increasingly clear was that they were managing to get people that had been through their particular brand of leadership training into positions of seniority within public service.

services, so the police, the health service, the civil service, the government. And they were clearly being given fairly significant amounts of money from everything from local government right up to national government. And they eventually ended up with a contract to train the top 200 civil servants in the UK. But what was interesting about common purpose was that it wasn't a course that you could just sign up and do. You had to be selected for it.

But then once you've done the course, you joined an alumni network. And so what they effectively managed to do was to get people into senior positions in organizations who then were in a position themselves to hire, and they were inevitably hiring other common purpose people. So one of the first things that we did, we set up a website called Common Purpose Exposed. And although I can't say where it came from, we managed to get hold of a copy of the alumni database for that organization, which we made searchable. And that very clearly demonstrated just the kind of infiltration that this particular organization. had into the institutions in the UK.

Now, they tried to attack us by having websites taken down and so on. That didn't work. But that sort of was the thing that sort of brought me into this organisation in the first place. Then as time went on, we started covering things like the attempt by the British government to begin to get control of the narrative with an inquiry, a judge-led inquiry called the Levison inquiry, which was led by a judge called Brian Levison. And it sort of came out of a scandal within the mainstream media where journalists were caught hacking people's mobile phones and using the information.

that they gathered from that to write salacious articles in various tabloid newspapers. But this was a very clear attempt to get control of the mainstream press in Britain and get control of the narratives. And what was fascinating about that was that common purpose was front and center within that effort to get control of the media. And And so we published an expose of that and then sent the information that we had discovered to Paul Dacre, who was at that time the editor of the Daily Mail in the UK. He then, we discovered later, put a team of four or five journalists on it, and they eventually published 12, 14 pages or something.

and it became front-page news on a particular Sunday's mail, and that was the end of the Leveson inquiry, because it was effectively discredited after that, and they didn't manage to get the destination that they wanted to get with that. And then it wasn't until, in fact, the COVID thing happened that really the mainstream press finally capitulated because they were so internet had happened in the meantime and they were so then desperate for for money they became reliant and they have become reliant on on government advertising revenue and so so it's it's increasingly we've increasingly seen mainstream press

refusing to hold government to account in any way in the last number of years and they certainly they certainly didn't during the COVID day backal because you know if we go back when was it, 2015 or so? There was an attempt to do something similar to the COVID thing with swine flu. And mainstream press in the UK were very aggressively against the whole swine flu efforts because they were calling the pharmaceutical industries out for trying to put fear into people at the time and so on, and five or six years later, five years later, they had done a hundred and eighty degree turnabout with that, and they were very pro-farm, big pharma over those couple of years.

So, you know, we've seen a progression over, you know, since 2008, 2010 of an effort to get control of a narrative. And that's something that we have, that particular agenda, something we've been focusing on over the over the over this period if if I go back um I want to follow your train of thought to where you finish but I am kind of curious before 2008 were you working for different uh newspaper or media or what were you doing before 2008 I I have had a basically tech infrastructure and so I've worked in a whole bunch of different industries but but

I started getting involved in internet related stuff in what 1995 or 1996 and so I started a blog in about 97 or 98 and I was writing since then on and off so but this I decided around 20 2008 or so that maybe a little bit earlier than that that there was too much stuff going on that I couldn't really, I didn't feel like I just wanted to continue working in sort of mainstream employment and not be trying to, to push back on it a little bit. So, so that's what, that's what motivated me to sort of take this on as a full-time thing.

The reason I ask about before is I'm always curious, you know, like, were you skeptical of government before or was it 2008 you start like digging in a holy crap what is going on here you mentioned you had a you had a blog in the late 90s where you were you were you skeptical of what was happening in the UK back then or you know were you just writing I don't know a personal blog and and you know it was just some some meandering thoughts no it wasn't beandering thoughts I was absolutely focusing on what was what I thought was going on in the world but but no I mean what started me place. I grew up in Belfast and Northern Ireland, as you know, had troubles of its own for the first 30 years of my life. And I think I was, I think about 11 or so years old. My dad started

a business and he had been going for a year and the place that he had premises on an industrial estate and the industrial estate, including his place, was blown up by the IRA. And we then found out that afterwards that the Northern Irish police had watched the bomb being put in the car and watched it being driven down what was the Andersonstown Road in Belfast and watched it being left. And the particular police that were watching this had been told to leave it alone. And and that sort of was my first exposure to the idea that what we are being told isn't necessarily what's going on. And so I'm not going to say I was suddenly red-pilled at the age of 11, but certainly

later on, that's a memory that's always stuck with me. And maybe it contributed in some way to a certain cynicism or skepticism about what I'm being told. Yeah, well, I would think watching your father's business blown up and then watching the official talking points come out. I would think that's a pretty formative idea that maybe everything isn't what it seems to be. Right. Right. So, so, you know, over the years, it's, it's been a case of total skepticism. Uh, and, uh, I've always enjoyed watching politics, but with an appreciation that it's a client show, really. You mentioned 2017, and I felt like you put an emphasis on 2017.

What went down in 2017 that sticks out in your mind? That's when Theresa May, that was the Prime Minister at the time, invited all the social media companies to visit Ten Downing Street and discuss with her how they were going to begin a censorship regime. I mean, this began, I suppose, I think I could be wrong about this. I think it was 2015. David Cameron stood up in the United Nations General Assembly and told the world that we needed to start regulating the Internet

because there was too much terrorism on the Internet, too much vaccine skepticism on the Internet, and so on. And in those days, it was terrorist content, Islamic terrorist content that was the main excuse for, or the front that they put on trying to control narratives. Now, the fact of the matter is that they have governments and social media companies have over the years done nothing to actually do anything about terrorist-related content on their platforms. so we can ignore that excuse. In more recent years, the excuse for the censorship has been the requirement to protect children, which is in itself ironic since British politicians and British establishment have, you know, systematically abused children for decades, if not centuries.

So, so, but certainly in modern times with Kinkora in Belfast being one example. example, Jimmy Saville, the British television presenter and radio presenter. In fact, Louis Montbatten, the number of names that can be mentioned that are very, very senior within the British establishment that are directly connected to abusive activities involving children, including one Prime Minister at least. So it's ridiculous to believe that. It's ridiculous to believe that the motivation for censoring the internet and putting regulations in place to limit what can be published or what can be shared has got anything whatever to do with children. And the other reason that I say that is because one of the things that they've done here

in the last few months is to bring in a regime of what they're describing is age assurance. And that means that anybody that's wanting to use, again, the excuse is pornography sites, but actually this applies to social media websites as well, are increasingly having to identify or to validate their age by giving some form of photographic ID to the platforms. And the excuse for this is that this protects under 18s from getting access to content that is inappropriate. what the age assurance scheme doesn't do is in any way protect children that are on websites that are geared towards children, shall we say Roblox, for example, being targeted by adults

posing as children. And so when we look at the sort of amount of grooming that goes on on the internet, it's always in that direction. It's kids being approached by adults who are pretending to be other kids and then getting themselves into difficulties. The regime that's being, the censorship regime that's being rolled out in the UK and in Europe, in the EU for that matter, is not addressing this issue in any way. So, you know, again, another great example of how they are not, you know, the idea of protecting children is just a front for what they're doing. The target here is anybody that's offering a dissenting view of what's going on.

in the world. Yeah, we, we have our own censorship laws being pushed on hard. And children, protecting children is by far the narrative they're pushing forward with that it's going to protect children. And then they hide in a bunch of other things in the middle of that. You know, I think of even, even gun laws here in Canada. Anytime there's, there's, an opportunity, they point to restricting firearms, but they actually don't look to the underlying, well, and fairness, not fairness, it's, it's, it's, when something happens, they don't give the full story that shows that it's illegal firearms, not the legal firearms owners doing all the things. And that somehow by restricting legal firearms owners, it's going to clear up all the crime, which has nothing to do with legal firearms, right? It's, it's, um, an example that's very similar to what you're talking about with, with going, we're going to protect. children when that's not the end goal. Well, well,

that's it. And there's nothing that they're doing at the moment is going to protect children in any way. Because if you're, if you've got criminal intent, the, the law of the, you know,

the laws that they put into place don't make any difference anyway. And that absolutely, you're absolutely bang on with that. Um, you know, you mentioned Jimmy Seville. And once again,

Canadian sitting on this side, I've read the story. I've seen the different things. But when it's a different country, the name means a little to me almost, right? Like it isn't like you're talking about some Canadian. And I'm like, oh yeah, I know this story. Could you walk me through Jimmy Seville? So he began his career as a radio DJ on one of the pirate radio stations, I think. and then moved to BBC Radio One. And while he was at BBC Radio One,

he got moved on to television on a perhaps well-known BBC music show called Top of the Pops. And from there, he ended up doing a program called Jim Will Fixit, where he was helping children do things that were sort of always their lifetime dream. but so he had this this television personality side to him which was the public persona but he did a lot of other stuff aside from that he got he put himself in a position for example of getting involved with children's charities he got involved with the main children's hospital in the UK and because of his public persona he started because

getting into contact with other well-known people, including our present King. He used to spend his Christmas dinners with Margaret Thatcher. He spoke once in the Knesset. Don't ask me how. And he at some point... Forgive me. The Knesset is... Israel's parliament, right? So, you know, why... I have no idea why I don't really particularly know what he spoke about, but why he ended up, I mean, why this particular person ended up speaking there.

I have no idea. I'm just trying to give an idea of how far his tentacles reached, you know, Christmas dinner with Margaret Thatcher. He was running PR for Prince Charles then at that time. At some point, he was given the keys and became put in charge of Broadmoor, prison, which is the main mental prison psychopaths and others are sent to Broadmoor in the UK. He was, he had no qualification for this whatsoever. Now, one of the things that's really fascinating about this man is that in the, I don't know

whether it was in the late 70s or the early 80s, there was a famous serial killer that got the the nickname the Yorkshire Ripper. It was a guy called Peter Suckliff, and he was murdering prostitutes. And he was called the Yorkshire Ripper, because the original Ripper case was from Victorian England and murdering prostitutes. But anyway, Peter Suckcliffe was eventually convicted for this.

He always maintained that he did not commit all the murders. and the interesting thing is that the first murder happened very, very close to Jimmy Saville's flat where he was living at the time. And Saville was actually interviewed by the police at the very beginning and then had no further trouble with this. Now, I know from people that were, because we have, one of the things that we have done over the years is we've been working very, closely with the abused, with people that have been on the receiving end of child abuse in children's homes and so on. And one of the things that I know about Saville was that he was not just into children. He was basically into anything, including the dead. And this was part of the reason why he was so keen to get access to hospitals. So I don't know whether he was actually

involved in the Yorkshire Ripper case, but the fact that he was then given the keys to the prison in which Peter Sarkcliffe was incarcerated for his entire life. It's just fascinating. There's so many questions about this guy because it wasn't just that he was abusing children and the BBC didn't know about it and so on. His reach went to the very top of British of the British establishment. And so, you know, frankly, the, there's so much more to know about him. And that, you know, none of that has really been acknowledged openly within mainstream press, at least.

It's only the activists, the people that were directly affected by him or by people that were associated with him that have been trying for the last 20 or 30 years to get, to get the lid off the whole thing. And then he's pardoned, correct? Am I, am I, am I, um, butchering that or, or that's a poor choice of words, but is, is, is, is that the, the most recent thing with him? In what's, I mean, he, he's been dead for, for a number of years now.

And, and, and of course, most of, most of, most of what I've, what we know about him only came out after his death. And, and, and even, even then, we don't get to, to, to, to, to, to, to, really inquire as to his connections with the people that have mentioned already, you know, with, with prime ministers and with, uh, well, current monarchs. You know, so, so my, my, my, I thought the last thing I saw about him was something from the king. And, um, but maybe I, you know, that this is why I ask about it because I'm like, I'm just some, you know, heck from Alberta. The, and I, I hear it and I hear the stories, oh, that's, that's, that sounds It sounds awful. And then it just comes up in passing on social media. I'm like, I don't know the full story of this. This is fascinating to me because once again, if it was, if it was somebody maybe here in Canada, I'd be like, oh yeah, I know a good chunk of the story. I hear this name and I go, who the heck is this even, right? Like I don't fully understand the fact he's dead and everything else. I'm like, oh, okay, fair enough. Like this is just a guy who rose from

not meager beginnings by any stretch, but found his way into a lot of interesting places, has very interesting circumstances around murder and the fact he was given keys to an insane asylum raises questions because you're like, why would that be? And it goes on and on. And the fact he's sitting at dinner with the prime minister

finds his way into Israeli parliament, you're like, this guy had friends in high places. Yes, because, Because the thing we've got to realize is, and, you know, this is unfortunately the key point. The thing we've got to realize is that the abuse of children is absolutely central to the core of Britain and British establishment. This is this, you know, going back to Belfast, I mentioned Kinkora. Kinkora was a children's home in East Belfast that was visited by politicians by others. they were abusing young boys there was a home for boys mainly it was run by the by british

i5 was run by british intelligence so so this is this is something which is absolutely right at the the core of of britain because it is the control mechanism that they use right so so a great example of it just gives you an idea of of how much much the BBC actually knows and do nothing with. They interviewed a guy called Tim Fortescue. This is back in the early 80s, I guess. And Fortescue was the chief whip for Ted Heath. I think it was Ted Heath government,

which is the conservative prime minister before Margaret Thatcher. Ted Heath was a paedophile, and he used to take children out of children's homes, take them onto his yacht, which he had in Southampton and take them out into the sea and abuse them there. Fortescue said on a BBC interview

that, because the role of the whips is to make sure that MPs vote with the government and do what the government says. But, you know, he explained in a BBC interview that was publicly broadcast

how MPs would come to him with problems. It might be a problem with small boys and he would solve the problem for them because from that point forward they were his and he could ask them to do anything that's how that's how the establishment works here that's how it's always worked it is a massive control mechanism and and of course you know thousands tens of thousands of people have their lives destroyed by it man it's a dark it's a dark thought absolutely dark and and you know and it's one of the darkest things that we that we get involved in and it's we have we have been working personally with survivors of this for for a very very long time

it's an extremely dark area and it's extremely hard work because so many because of the damage that it does to people it is it is truly the worst thing that you can do to something someone at, you know, it can't be, I can't put too strong, I can't express that too strongly. It is the worst thing you can do to someone. And, and, and the fact that this is institutionalized. You know, there's a, there's a, there's a, an NGO in the UK called ECPAT that, that follows children being trafficked into Europe and into the UK. And how many of those children are brought into the British care system and then disappear. They just disappear. They're never seen or heard of again. Nobody knows what happens to them. The figures aren't even properly gathered

by the state. But others that have been on the receiving end of the type of abuse that I'm talking about talk about kids disappearing out of care homes into effective sexual slavery. And this is just, it is dark and it's something that we need to understand is happening and get the lid off. Have you had any success in trying to get the lid off that thing? It's an ongoing battle, but, I mean, define success. Is it still going on? Yes, it's still going on. But of course, in the last five, six, ten years, more and more names have been coming out of people that have been directly involved in it. There has been there have been inquiries. Inquiries are there, sadly, to sort of limit and put a ring fence around information getting out.

And so success, yes, in a sense, because there's a lot more awareness of it than there was before. In another sense, absolutely not, because it's still going on and it's still a core part of British institutions. I'm going to assume you were not surprised by Epstein Island. I'm going to assume that that doesn't come as a shock when all that started to come, you know, all the emails and everything started to get on availed. the flight logs, all the different things that came out of Jeffrey Epstein and the people he was connected to. But maybe I'm wrong. Like when you saw what was going on there, were you going, no, no, that's just the tip of the iceberg or am I wrong in that? No, you're not wrong in that at all. It is just the tip of the iceberg. And no, we're not surprised by the Epstein list at all,

particularly not surprised to see Prince Andrews's name on that. And yeah, I mean, there's there's a lot more to come out there as well and and you know again we're back into with that back into intelligence agency connections because there's no question that glain Maxwell like her father is heavily connected into various intelligence agencies around the world not just britain and and epstein clearly connected that way as well so so no it's it it should actually come as no surprise to anybody that this is going on because there have been lots of activists

talking about it for so long. So, you know, but it is one of the, one of the topics that we need to get proper exposure of. So, you know, Trump needs to sign that document and get those files released. When you think there's more to come,

in your mind, what does it you mean by more to come? Well, I mean, what do we actually know at this point? We've got hints and we've got some people named, but we actually need to know exactly who did what and, you know, that that is not entirely clear as yet. So, you know, I don't know exactly what information is going to be available in the Epstein files if they're finally released. the question is will they be released on redacted um probably not but uh um you know what we've seen

so far is only is only giving part of the picture we need the whole picture talking about strange um france their leader uh canis owens you know like had just What do you mean the fact is she, that he's married to his dad? What? What are you? Sure. That's just, I mean, I don't know that. That's just, that's just a rumor.

But I mean, you know, we get, we start to see these little, these little clues. I mean, the fact, the fact that the camera was pointing in the wrong direction of a couple of months back and he, he was clearly getting slapped, you know, How does that even work? How does the president of the United States get hit by his wife on a plane and then look all sheepish looking out the door? It's just there's something very, very strange about the world of politics at the moment. Yes, strange is the only word I can use because the closer you start looking, you're like, that doesn't make any sense.

All these things don't make sense. The more it doesn't make sense, the more you try and look into it, you're like, I'm I'm really confused well and that that of course is part of the intention keep keep people destabilized and confused because as you know the more destabilized and confused they are the less we can understand what's going on the less we can fight back against it actually because we don't understand what's going on so you know it's not like they didn't tell us what they were doing after after the COVID thing happened and the Great Reset was launched in the World Economic Forum,

and the World Economic Forum publishes their annual threat assessment reports, and one of the things that they started talking about was this idea of polycrisis. And we're absolutely living through that at the moment. We're living through multiple crises happening all at the same time, with the intention of just getting people so disinamored with the idea, of even watching a news program that they don't actually care what's going on in the world. Well, if you don't care what's going on in the world, you can't oppose it if you don't like it. So so many people now are just switching off from everything that's going on. And then

the ones you can't capture that way, you just capture by filling them so full of fear and that they just are totally annoying what to do about anything. So, you know, they told us, they told is they were going to hit us with this, and they have. And it has been a pretty unpleasant five years for people the last five years. I don't see it getting any better anytime soon. And in fact, with the increasing rise of AI, we're just going to start getting more and more information overload. It's going to be very, very hard for people to try to just work out what the heck is going on. So, you know, the thing to do is, is not to, I think it's not to disengage completely, but certainly we need to take a step back and just, just try to take

a slower look at what's going on and, and be a bit more, uh, try to be a bit more objective about it. Our, our emotions are being absolutely played with, whether it's through the migrant crisis or every, you know, every other crisis is going on. And, uh, we, we got start recognizing when we are being played in this way. On the UK, and I'm forgetting, I was just going to type it in and see if I could find it. There was a professor in the UK that talked about the chances of civil war in the UK specifically. And, you know, like you see civil unrest happening all across the world. It isn't just in the UK.

It's here in Canada. It's in the United States. It's all over the place. when you look at your country and you're and you're watching the things that are going on do you see that or are you like no that that's we're we're far away from that or do you think it's you know like a possibility i think it's very touch and go i think that if if it if if there should be any significant civil unrest in the uh in the next period it will have been created and so I think again going back to 2015 sometime around then we started to see

let me start again in the UK we have a sort of anti-extremist initiative government initiative they call it the prevent strategy and it was originally geared towards Islamic extremism And the idea was that if you were, if you're in school or college or whatever, that your teacher or your lecturer would report you to the prevent strategy if they got any suggestion or any hint that you were expressing extremist views of some kind. But I think it was about 2015, 2016. We started to see in the documentation that was coming out of this organisation talk. of the rise of right-wing extremism in the UK, and we're looking around at the UK and saying, there is no right-wing extremism here. What are they talking about? And so we started to watch

as they systematically began to put that together. And they have taken advantage of concerns that people have over migration and the number of people coming into the UK and they have put their money in the right kinds of places and the right kind of people have said the right kind of things at the right time and now we have even people like Elon Musk who's just got a trillion dollar bung from Tesla starting to pump money into the UK in order to build a right wing Now, I, just to be clear about this, don't believe in the whole concept of right and left. And I think that that's the wrong. If we're looking right or left for our enemies, then we're looking in the wrong direction.

We need to be looking up. And so I think that it's actually what people want on the right and the left fundamentally are the same kinds of things. we might disagree about how we get to those points. But what we're saying is the divisions, the wedges being driven between people to the point where people on the right of politics and people on the left of politics aren't even speaking to each other.

At the moment, they just want to throw rocks at each other across the street. I think we're saying that to some degree in the United States as well. It's a very dangerous time, but this is being stoke. orchestrated it's being orchestrated um and that's what i mean when i say people are going to start recognizing when they're being played uh and uh so so are we looking at significant civil unrest in the

uk there've been efforts to generate it over the last three four years in particular and so far they haven't been very successful i think i think uh um i think it's i think whether it actually results in in serious trouble it's hard it's hard to say but I think there's lots of money coming into this country at the moment to make that happen that's an interesting thought there's lots of money coming into this country to make it happen that is strange that that rate there is strange right you think I don't know I'm once again probably too naive I just think you know like when I think of like society going to a civil war it's because they're fed up

with the powers that be above them and they're just they're just tired of it yeah but the problem is that they want to fight with each other and they never fight the powers that be that are yeah well that's what you're talking about if you're looking left or right you're doing the wrong thing you got to look up to who's pulling the strings so so you know northern ireland was a completely manipulated conflict right that that that's the fact, British intelligence services were controlling both sides of that argument. And from the very beginning, and, you know, there's a, there's a, a British military general that I always mentioned when we have, when I have these conversations, and that's

General Sir Frank Kitson. Now, he ran the British operation in Kenya to put down the Mao rebellion. He also was active in Malaya and he came to Belfast in 1968, I think. Anyway, he wrote the two

books that I always recommend people read. There's one called gangs and countergangs. Now that's more of a sort of historical coverage of the operations that he ran in Kenya and that's available freely on the internet as a PD I don't know if it's intended to be free, but it's there if anybody is interested in reading

that. The other book that I absolutely recommend you get hold of and read is called low-intensity operations. And that's more about the sort of ideology, the strategies and the tactics of setting one gang off against another gang. Britain is very, very good at this. We have rehearsed it many, many times. And, you know, one of the things that has fascinated me about the development of British military doctrine in the last five, six years, 2018 was the previous Strategic Defense Review. They've just done a new Strategic Defense Review. I think it was the 2018 one that they launched what they're, and with that, the name is completely dropped out of my head. But anyway, integrated operating concept, that's what they're calling it.

And part of the language that they used, one of the things that they said when they were describing this concept was that the idea of home being a safe place is out of date. that it's no longer that it being away from your home that is where you're in danger. You're in danger at home as well. So what they were basically saying in this doctrine was that the British people are as much of an enemy as the enemy abroad. And that's how the British government is currently treating the British people as an enemy. And so, you know, that applies with the censorship regime.

it applies with the fact that they're rushing so far and so quickly with the technocratic digital ID schemes that they're trying to get through at the moment. And it absolutely is one of the reasons why we're starting to see the degree of division and anger between people in the population because we are on the receiving end of a British state uh psychological operation there's no no other way to put it when you you mentioned two books gangs and counter gangs low intensity operations are they both written by the forgive me the the band's yes yes they were both written by him yeah and he and and sorry what was his name general sir frank kitson so that's k i t s o n so as you know he he he he was

was the senior British military man in the 50, 60, 70s. And those two books are educational if you wanna learn about how set groups off against each other, yeah. Well, the thing that I don't think anyone can argue is the British Empire for a long time, maybe even today you can weigh in on it, has set the world against itself in very different ways. And not in different ways, in different instances, I mean.

and one of the ways is to pit two people against themselves or groups of people against themselves and have them more it out and fund both sides and then step in and you know push it one way or another I'm probably way over simplifying this so when you say actually or not because I'll give you another book to read and that is a legacy of violence

kind of as a Caroline Elkin I think is the name of the woman that wrote that and it's a fascinating history of the violence of the British Empire over over a couple of centuries. And what's fascinating about it is one of the key things that comes out of it, if you read it, is that actually it's the same tactics everywhere. It's exactly the same tactics.

And if you look at what they did in Ireland, you look at what they did in India, you look at what they did in Malaya and Kenya, and look at what's going around you today, you'll see the parallels. The one that comes up is a legacy, of violence, a history of British counterinsurgency written by Edward Burke. Is that the right one or is that no, that's not, that's not the one.

Let me just, uh, the reason, the reason I ask is, as you're looking, I'm like, I stare at you, Mike and I go, this guy's been staring at some different things inside the UK and you're night hyperbolic, you're actually like being very balanced about it. You're saying things that I think as I've been doing this show, I'm starting to recognize. And you're going, these books. books are must-free. I'm like, well, I better make sure I get the right title and the right author for not only myself, but the audience who's sitting there probably driving somewhere and going, what was that name again? Because I'm going to get texted about this. And so,

folks, I'm going to make sure we get the right names so that when you're going to look for it, you get exactly what you're talking about. Oh, okay. Well, it's Legacy of Violence, a History of the British Empire by Caroline Elkins. Caroline Elkins is the name, E-L-K-I-N-S. Perfect. Um, yeah, I, I, I mean, we're closing in on an hour here. And I, I'm, you've got my, my brain rolling along this morning, which I, I, afternoon for you, heck, maybe even closing in on evening. I appreciate, like, uh, you, uh, you, you give me time today. I'm, you know, if I guess if I had a few extra minutes, I would just look at, um, you know, you, you look at the things going on outside the UK. You know, you got Russia, Ukraine, you got Hamas, Israel. I'm sure I'm missing

like four other conflicts going on. You know, in your, in your journalist spot where you sit exploring all these topics or trying to shine a light on them, is there anything out there that you're like, people need to pay attention to X? Yeah, well, look, Sudan is if we're talking about conflicts, Sudan is one of the most disgusting conflicts is going on at the moment. Obviously, keep an eye on what's going on with Venezuela and that part of South America. But no, I think really what we need to be doing first and foremost is trying to understand the motivations behind events, than just looking at the events themselves. The events themselves are dark and they're horrible

and lots and lots of people are, you know, being killed, injured, maimed. That should be enough to get us motivated. But actually we need to be looking behind these events and saying, you know, who's funding, who's arming, what are the interests that are actually at work here and what are they trying to achieve? you know we don't have time unfortunately to get into that conversation now maybe we can talk to speak

again maybe we can follow up on a different one well then i'll give you one final one before i let you out of here i'm you know uh you talk in all these different circles and you talk to different journalists and you talk to different uh you know subjectmatic matter experts and and people they're you know authors and professors etc etc you get the point and all of them are terrified to travel to the UK they're worried they're going to get arrested when they walk into an airport. Do you share that sentiment for, for, and I'm speaking, I'll just speak to myself, you know, having this conversation, do I got any worry about coming to the UK or is that being overblown? No, I don't think it's being overblown at all. I mean, I think, I think, uh, the main,

the main target for this at the moment is anybody that's, uh, perceived to be, uh, pro-Palistine. Um, but, you know, my colleague, Vanessa Bailey was, was stopped several years, three, four years ago, um, She was traveling during just after lockdown, I think, and got stopped for being to pro-Russia. That was the excuse for it. And so, but, you know, I think if you are coming to the UK, take sensible precautions. You know, if they do stop you under the terrorism legislation, and they don't have to, by the way, have any suspicion. you're actually a terrorist or involved with terrorism at all they just they just use it as a as a front um so if they stop you you will have your phone taken from you you will be required to

give your your uh electronic your code for that and and they will image the data that's on there so you know take sensible precautions probably the best thing is not to travel with your normal your normal phone to have a phone that uh that you use just for for traveling but but not I think increasingly the British state is behaving massively out of control and they are targeting certain journalists for sure. So, you know, at the end of the day, of course, what does it actually end up with? It doesn't end up with anything other than you've had your whatever personal information or information you've been carrying with you taken. And it's really at this stage there to intimidate. more than anything else because people aren't uh you know they're not ending up in prison

did you say anyone that's pro-palistine did i hear that correct yes so so canada coming out pro palestine is that make any canadian who's traveling uh no i think no no i don't think so no i think i think really they're targeting activists and and or anybody that's that's uh you know openly criticizing what's going on there at the moment uh so but you know in fair it's been mostly British people that are coming back into the country

from abroad. But that doesn't mean exclusively. So, you know, I think it is, it is a, the abuse of the terrorism legislation is certainly a concern here

at the moment, yeah. Mike, appreciate you giving me time this morning. It's always fascinating on my end. I was saying this before we hopped in to talk to different people from different countries because, you know, here in Canada. We try and understand what's going on in the UK and we hear different reports

come out. It's nice to have somebody sitting there that can give a, you know, boots on the ground, so to speak, perspective of what's happening in the UK. Either way, thanks for giving me some time this morning. And, well, I look forward to, you know, exploring some different topics, hopefully in the years to come. Well, thank you. Thanks for having me on. It's been good fun.