Shaun Newman Podcast - #97 - Theo Fleury

Episode Date: July 20, 2020

This guy is unfiltered and just says it. He played over a 1000 games in the NHL won a Stanley Cup, world junior gold & Olympic gold. He was molested by his junior coach & then as a pro partied extremely hard to the point of almost killing himself. These days he is a mental health advocate & has a lot to say about our current state in politics & just mental well fair.  Let me know what you think     Text me! 587-217-8500

Hey everybody. My name is Steele Fleury and welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Happy Monday, folks. Welcome back to the podcast. Let's get into it. Here are our sponsors. Welcome to the folks at H.S.S.I. Group. There are your local oil field burners and combustion experts that can help make sure you have a compliant system working for you. The team also offers security, surveillance, and automation products for residential, commercial livestock, and agricultural applications. We use technology to give you peace of mind so you can feel. focus on the things that truly matter. 3902.52nd Street or give him a call, give Brody and a call at 306-825-6310. Lindsay Olin and Team Down at Can Do Auto and Loob. Family owned and operated since 1984.

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I figured since, you know, we got Theo Flurion in the Battle of Alberta, I could talk about Calgary Flame things, or I can talk about all the things that she's done there, Emmett's Noilers. and she's got a she showed me a pretty cool McDavid jersey that she did where Gunner did all the etching in the background. It looks friggin' sweet. Or the man cave. She showed me a picture of this guy who's got a man cave. And just imagine every jersey under the sun of the Oilers. Unbelievable.

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We've got lots of different options and I want to find something that can work for the both of us. Now, let's get on to the T-Barr 1, Tale of the Tape. Originally from Russell Manitoba, he was drafted by the Calgary Flames in the 1987 NHL entry draft in round 8, 166th overall. Over his career, he played 1,084 games with 455 goals, 633 assists for a total of 1,088 points, oh and not to mention 1,8 penalty minutes. He won a World Junior Gold in 1988, a Stanley Cup in 1989 with the Calgary Flames, a gold with Canada at the Canada Cup in 1991, an Olympic gold in 2002. He's a best-selling author, a country musician,

Of course, I'm talking about Theo Flurry. So buckle up. Here we go. Sean Newman podcast today, I'm joined by Mr. Theo Flurry. So thank you, sir, for hopping on. Yeah, no problem. My pleasure. Right off the top, I guess I'm curious on how you're doing.

I listened to, I was just saying I've listened to several episodes of you over the last little bit here as soon as I found out you're coming on. And it was closer to the start of COVID, but you'd mentioned it was one of the most difficult times. in your sobriety was now. I'm curious, how are you doing today and more specifically, I guess, in general over this time span? Yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, there's no secret that I suffer from like almost debilitating depression and anxiety. And when COVID happened, you know, or before COVID happened, I was on a plane every week going somewhere, speaking or helping people.

And then all of a sudden it was like, nothing. So I fell into about a month and a half depression. Couldn't get out of bed. Could barely get up to go to the washroom. And, you know, was having probably four or five panic attacks a day, you know, just because, you know,

of the uncertainty of what was happening, right? And then, you know, the snow all melted. It started to get nice out. So I jumped on my pedal bike. And I started riding my bike. And as soon as I did that, you know, I started to feel better. But more importantly, you know, I'm wired to win, okay?

And so I always thought that I could somehow defeat my mental illness. And what happened was I accepted it. For the first time, I actually accepted it and said, okay, this is, what the rest of my life is going to look like. And instead of trying to beat it, let's just try to manage it. Right. And since I switched that mentality and way of thinking, I haven't had a problem since. So do you have a routine then you're doing now? Every morning getting up? Yeah. Yep. What do you do in the I think the biggest misconception with depression and anxiety is that, you know, the best relief for that is to move. Like, just move.

Like, go for a walk, go for a ride, you know, get in the car, you know, drive to Starbucks, grab a coffee or whatever. You got to move. But if you sit in it, it just, like, completely overtakes you, right? And so, you know, when I get up in the morning, I meditate, you know, light a smudge, you know, do some prayer and meditation. And I get on my bike and go for a ride. And then, you know, I've had some neck and back issues from my playing days. And so, you know, I've been going to chiropractor, laser therapy, you know, whatever it is. And then at the end of the day, my two boys both work.

And so we meet at the golf course between four and six o'clock. play 18 holes of golf every day. So, you know, golf, you know, I'm getting t-shirts made up that says golf is what I take for my anxiety and depression. You know, you mentioned moving to get out of it. Well, that's pretty much what nobody can do right now. That's, that's exactly what happened. How many people are going through what you're talking about? Yeah. It's got to be an unbelievable amount. Yeah, it is, well, COVID. 19 is the most traumatic event that's happened since World War II. 100%.

And so, you know, I've been spending my time over the last since I got out of the depression, getting prepared, you know, for the aftermath of COVID. Because I was busy before, I'm going to be full out swamped when this is, you know, all said and done. Well, you already are full out swamped. You're doing podcast after podcast. Yeah, but that's good because it gets me out of my head, you know, gets me out of, you know, that stinking thinking stuff, right?

Well, some of the best therapy in the world is just talking to somebody. And as soon as that it was all taken away, everybody locked themselves indoors and you lose that human factor of it. Yeah. It doesn't matter how healthy you are. everybody's all you're being told in the media and everything is how bad it is yeah exactly well and you know they they know that we're all fucked up and they know that uh you know that if they keep us in fear then they keep us in line and they can control us right so who's they theo i've heard you say

that several times well you know who they is well when i said you're coming on uh you have a crazy amount of Twitter followers. It's just like active. I've had people on that have millions of followers, but your followers are like engaged. Oh yeah. And when I brought you on, Lloyd Minster reached out to me and the first thing they wanted me to ask about was 2005. And I'm sure you've had this brought up several times. Looking back on the Allen Cup with Horse Lake. What's your thoughts about it now? You know, it's 15 years later. Yeah, yeah. Well, it was. It was amazing experience, you know. It's sort of, because I was so done with hockey.

Like I was, I was, you know, I had a lot of resentment and anger and whatnot. And so, you know, going up to Horse Lake, I was back in the dressing room, which probably, you know, we all miss the most. And actually playing is, you know, that the dressing room has a certain amount of therapeutic healing. you know and as soon as I got back in the dress room it all came back to me and you know I found I found the love that I had before and and you know it wasn't at the same level but you know I had a bunch of buddies you know Steve Parsons was there and you know Gino and the lack of it brothers my cousin was on the team and you know so it was fun and you know unfortunately it didn't turn out the way that we had all hoped that it would, but, you know, the experience, you know, was incredible.

You know, the people of Horse Lake were phenomenal and, you know, enjoyed my time there. And, you know, I know what you're getting at. And, you know, I think I've talked about this before, but, you know, it was, It was really disappointing to see how, you know, the Aboriginal people were treated. And, you know, that hurt a bit, you know, because I do have Aboriginal blood in me. And, you know, I've been to 420 First Nations communities all over Canada now speaking. and, you know, those people have truly given me my life back, you know. I've met some incredible healers.

I've met some incredible medicine men, you know, spiritual teachers, you name it. And, you know, the reputation that they have is not warranted, you know. Yeah. Well, anytime, well, when you play on a team that comes in and are the Broad Street bullies of senior hockey, I remember that team was, you guys were tough. And when you had Theo Flery leading the way, you were not known for being the quiet guy. Yeah, I know. No, no. I, well, I always said if people in the same.

stands, um, dislike me, then I was doing my job. What was the toughest building you ever went into? Uh, as far as fanfare goes, you know,

you played a lot of years, a lot of different leagues. And, you know, um, there's just, you know what? I,

I wouldn't say they were tough buildings. I, I just think they were, I looked at them as incredible challenges, you know, to, stay focused and, you know, tried to do what I do best. And that was, you know, score goals and make plays and whatnot. And, but, you know, in junior was Regina, Swift Current, you know,

those were, like in Regina, I needed a police escort out of the rink every game. You know, the fans would be standing beside the bus wanting to, you know, kill me, basically. You know, and then places like San Jose, you know, back in the day that I was hated there. You know, Chicago was another, the old Chicago Stadium was a tough building. The old Boston Garden was a tough building to play in, you know. So even the old odd in Buffalo, you know. Like if you weren't ready to play in those ranks, man, because they were so small, you know, you get your head taken off pretty quick.

I had a listener reach out and he said, said, Jamie Graham says, ask about the time you put Vaseline on fan seats in Section 2 at the old Medicine Hat Arena when you were in. Yeah, Mike Keene and I did that one night before a game. They had a section that used to sit behind the players bench and they would absolutely just beak off the whole entire game. And so, you know, we decided one night we were going to get back at them.

So you showed up early and put Vaseline. We vacilline on the chairs? We vacillian the whole section. How were you just sitting on the bench just like, can't wait? Oh, we were killing ourselves laughing. Yeah, we were killing ourselves laughing. Well, what happened? They sat down and they're just like, what the hell is this?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember our backup goalie's name was Glenn Seymour, right? Okay. And so one night this fan, the fans in Medicine Hat in Section 2, the guy goes, Hey, Seymour, I got a cat at home named Seymour.

When I get home, I'm going to kick it, he said. So, you know, that's, or Kelly Buckburger. Hey, Buckburger. What's a Buckburger made out of? And the guy beside him, chicken. You know, just that kind of stupid stuff. But, you know, back in the day, man, that's what junior hockey, that's what made junior hockey so great. Because, you know, those old buildings and the fans were like right on top of you.

And, you know, you could hear them and you could go back and forth with them. And, you know, like every time I used to score a goal in Regina, I used to machine gun, they'd crowd and everything. They'd just go nuts. So. You love the interaction with the fans then, don't you know. Yeah. Yeah. For sure.

well you know last time I checked you know hockey is entertainment right so I'm an entertainer how you know you're not a big guy and you played in a time when hockey was mean it wasn't rough it was downright mean how did you survive that I was really good with my stick you know You know, my first year in the Western League, I was 5'3, 125 pounds. That's what I played, you know. And I remember one of the first times we went up to Prince Albert, and they had like, they had a big, mean, friggin, ugly team. And I remember the first shift of that game, I got hit by Dave Manson,

and I thought I broke every single bone in my body. and I said to myself, that can never happen again. And so, you know, I knew that, you know, if they had to come through my stick or elbow or whatever, you know, I became very crafty with my stick. And, you know, and so I would play this, you know, psychological game with guys out in the ice because I knew that 75% of them were bluffers.

you know and the 25% who weren't bluffers I stayed away from them you know like this is what I used to say to bomber all the time we'd line up you know against each other in the face off circle I'd say to bomber man are you ever playing good tonight man you're you're really moving the puck and you know you're making that first pass and he would look at me like really I'm like oh yeah you're you're playing great tonight you know and then he wouldn't he wouldn't do anything you know So it'll be that kind of, you know, mentality, right? Did you ever stop talking on the ice? No.

But, you know, like I'm a highly competitive guy, right? And I think that's probably the biggest reason why I was so successful is I competed at, you know, a very high level because I hated to lose. And so, you know, I would line up against you at the face off dot at the beginning of the game and I'd look in your eyes and I'd smile. why? Because I wanted to get a reaction. Because I was willing to die in order to win, and I needed to know if you were willing to do the same thing. And if you weren't, guess what? I can take you anywhere on the ice and do whatever I want with you, right? And the guys that competed at the same level as me, that's when it got fun because now I got to I got to elevate my game to another level, you know?

And most nights, you know, I'd have to play against the other team's shutdown defense, right? So I played against guys like Cellios and Scott Stevens and Bukabum and Smith and Edmonton, right? And so, you know, those guys were highly competitive guys. And so, you know, those guys actually made me better player because I had to compete at a higher level. When you look back then, who is the one guy that sticks out that when you stepped on the ice against them, you're like, it better be go time because this guy takes no prisoners. Yeah, it was teakening it. Teakinen in Emington, you know, and if you look at Teakinen's career, you know,

everywhere he went, he was that shutdown guy, you know, like Gretz hated him, you know, because he was, he was that kind of guy, you know, and he was such a great player. Cody duty on ice that would just drive you nuts. Well, no, he, you know, he was good with his stick and he could skate and he could, he had skill and, you know, so he can keep up, you know. How good. So as a skilled guy, you know, you get frustrated when that guy's in your face all the time, right? You know, and you don't want to take penalties and, you know, that kind of stuff too.

And, you know, he's not a fighter. So you know he's not going to drop his gloves, right? So, you know, you just got to deal with it. You know, you bring up the battle of Alberta and Teakinen. That was the heyday of the day. the Battle of Alberta. Both teams exceptionally good. And such a giant

rivalry, I was too young to remember most of it. But you always hear the lore of the stories. Yeah. Yeah. What moment in that series or across the Battle of Alberta, what moments

stick out to you? Well, I think, you know, those games were circled on the calendar, you know, before they were even played, you know. You look forward to them. And, you know, those are the games you want to play in. You know, as a professional athlete, those are the games that you want to play.

Because that's where you make a name for yourself because you know it's going to be hard. You know, it's going to be difficult. You know, it's going to be violent. It's going to be, you know, crazy. And, you know, you want to beat them, right? You know, that's, you want to win. And, you know, like I said, those games were the funest games to play in because you knew, you know, when you were putting on your equipment, you weren't putting on pads, you were putting on a suit of armor and you were going to war, you know, right? Like, that series in 1991 was, like, off the charts.

Like, it was so violent and so brutal. Like, when we were slashing guys, we were trying to hit bone. that's what you're trying to do, you know. And they were trying to do the same to us as well, you know. And yeah, that series was amazing to be a part of him playing. Do you remember, I mean, Gretzky down the road for you plays a big part in your life. Do you remember the first time you stepped on the ice against them

and what your thoughts were? well i was obviously in awe right um but that quickly subsided and uh you know i knew i had a job to do and that was to get in his kitchen and uh you know make it difficult for him to you know do what he did best and uh you know we used to have a guy uh who was our assistant general manager's name was al mcneal and al was a an old school rough tough defenseman back in the day and you know he became of management. I remember him in the morning skates coming to me every time we played against LA and said, you know, you make it hard for that guy to play and you do everything you can get in his kitchen and, you know, don't be afraid to whack him and slash him and all that.

And so if you ask Gretz today, who his least favorite guy was to play against, he would say it was me, right? And, you know, I think that left an impression on him. And then obviously in 2002 at probably the most difficult time in my life, you know, he picked me to, you know, be a part of the Olympic team in 2002 in Salt Lake. And, you know, I think at that point, everybody had written me off except for him because he played against me and played with me and whatnot. And so, you know, I have a lot of respect for him. And, you know, not only Is he a great hockey player, but I think more importantly, he's an even better human being, and that's what I respect most about when you get to skate.

Do you remember the call for the 2002 Olympics? Yeah, we were in New York, and I think, was it, I don't know if we were getting ready for morning skater, actually getting ready to go on the ice and play a game. and my one of the PR guys from the rangers said hey it's grets on the phone and so i went into the can i'm talking to grets on the phone and you know he said hey you've been picked to represent canada 2002 olympics i was just like wow thanks man and appreciate it you know let's go win the gold medal have you talked to him about it since i assume and i can only assume that when he brought that up around the round table they're sitting there picking the team and he brings up

i want theo flurry yeah i'm assuming he got a little bit of pushback oh yeah yeah he tells that story every time we're together he tells that story to anybody who will listen listen to him tell the story he actually told it at his fantasy camp uh in front of all the guys uh um i can't remember when that i think it was like 2008 i was down there for his fantasy camp and uh Yeah, so yeah, we have sort of an interesting relationship. We don't talk to each other on the phone or anything, but, you know, when we do see each other at different events, you know, he always makes a point of, you know, coming over and make sure, making sure I'm okay.

Well, the 2002 Olympics, I think, for a lot of Canadians, hell, even a lot of Americans, sticks out. And the thing I always remember as a young guy was Grexki's press conference where he talks about you and the abuse the Canadians are taking. And that kind of became a lightning rod for you guys. You remember like after that press conference came out and Grex just goes out and like lays it on, lays it out to everybody. Like this is what's going on. Right. Well, you know, we learned a lot from the 98th. Olympics. And so the biggest difference was that when Gretz took over the team, he took out all the distractions that were going to distract us from really just focusing on playing. And so,

you know, we were pretty sheltered, you know, and we heard about the press conference, but I don't think we actually saw it. We heard about it. And, but, but, you know, I don't know if that added any fuel to the fire because if you look at the lineup, you know. Unbelievable. You know, I say, you know, I played on the fourth line with Joe Newndyke and Brandon Chanahan. That was the fourth line for Team Canada. So if you look up, if you look up the three sets of stats, you know, and that we were sort of considered, you know, to be this kind of energy,

you know, momentum shifting kind of line, you know, you probably laugh at yourself, you know, because, but yeah, that team was just, it was ridiculous, you know. Looking, you know, all the different things you've won, the cup, the gold medals, was there, after you'd won one of them, was there ever a time you just sat in the dressing room and it was surreal and you just were like, wow. I think every time, you know, every time you, you know, every time you, you win at that level, there is a certain amount of reflection, you know. But when you're young, you know, you just want to get to the next winning opportunity, right?

And so obviously now, you know, that I've been retired for 16 years, you know, I look back on those times and those moments and, you know. The one great thing about COVID was I was able to watch the whole entire Stanley Cup final. on SportsNet. And, you know, there was, there was things I, you know, sort of didn't remember. So it was nice to be able to sort of reminisce and, you know, take a walk down memory lane because, you know. And what I, what I noticed was, you know, there was absolutely no room on the ice at all.

Like if you wanted room, you had to create it yourself through, you know, physicality or speed or, you know, whatever it was. So, yeah, it was interesting to watch it. I know I've listened to you say before, and maybe not hoarder is not the right word, but you keep a lot of your memorabilia. Mm-hmm. And over the gold medals, et cetera, et cetera,

is there one that you got like on the wall that you're most proud, like that is it? Well, I have my three, my three, I have three jerseys that I display prominently in my house. So it's the Stanley Cup jersey, 1991 Canada Cup and the 2002 Olympic medal. And then I have my Stanley, my little Stanley Cup and my little Clarence Campbell Bowl that, you know, people can see. Other than that, everything else is packed away for my kids. So how about winning the cup then? You're like, you're like.

You're in the minors, and then you come up and hop on, you know, I'm an Oilers fan, right? But that Flames team was ridiculous. Stacked. That was stacked. Well, think about it. I was the fourth line centerman on that team, too, you know? Yeah. And, you know, I think, you know, when you're playing road hockey and Russell, Manitoba,

and it's minus 50 in your eyelids are frozen shut, you know, you dream about playing in the NHL, first and foremost, right? And then when you get to the NHL, then you start to dream about winning Stanley Cups. And so, you know, I was able to do that all in the same year, you know. And what was interesting, though, was, you know, I won a World Junior. And then six months later, I was in Salt Lake City, which was the Flames Minor League team. We won the Turner Cup that year. And then a year later, I won a Stanley Cup.

So within 18 months, I had three rings. And I was like, what's the big deal? This is easy, right? And then, you know, I play 15 years in the NHL and I don't get another sniff at the Stanley Cup, you know. So when people say that it's hard to win the 10, it's hard to win the 10, you know. A lot of things have to fall into place for, you know, for that to happen. Was there a team after that then? you thought maybe there was this could be the year again?

Well, we should have won probably at least one more, maybe two, you know, after the fact. We just, we couldn't get out of the first round of the playoffs. It was unbelievable. I think four game sevens in the first round, you know, and I think three, three or all four went into overtime. Unbelievable. They're both. That's the first round of playoffs, any fan will tell you,

is the most exciting hockey in the world. Yeah, because everybody has a clean slate, right? And, you know, it's all about momentum, you know, and if you lose the momentum, it's hard to get it back. What do you think of the 24-team playoff tournament happening in Eminton and Toronto this year? I think it's great. You know, if everybody can stay healthy

and stay out of the COVID thing, I think, you know, it's sort of made for TV, you know, because you're not going to be able to have fans, you know. But I read something, August 1st, there's going to be 71 live games being played. Hockey, basketball,

are all going to be on the same day, and there's going to be 71 games. Holy diana. So, we're all going to be cross-eyed. Going back to the 89 team, you got to play with a guy, I love his name.

We even named our draft after him. It's Hawk and Loub. Oh, yes. What was Hawk and Loub like? One of the sickest players ever. He could stick handle in the phone booth on gravel. That's how good he was.

You know? the uh and and like a the sweetest guy you'll ever meet you know funny guy you know but uh my best hawk and loob story is we were playing in the old boston garden that year we won the cup and he held on to the puck for a minute and ten seconds and nobody could get off get it get him off the puck and he finished it off by like sick move and scoring a goal it was just it was um Unbelievable. Guy had sick hands and a better name. Yeah.

Hawk and lube, yeah, great name. Do you, you know, with your size and how small you were back then, did any of the big guys in the room, like, they must have been when you walked in the dressing room been like, who is he a stick boy? Is that who this is? Pretty much, yeah. Well, and that was the funniest thing about, you know, watching that 89 Stanley. Cup final, you know, I'm 52 years old. I was 20 back then, you know, when I was just like,

oh my God, you know, I looked like a baby back then, you know, and yeah, it was, it was interesting. But, you know, I think that, so this is a great story. So, you know, the Flames had a very veteran team, right? And so I came January 1st. And, you know, I wasn't really accepted at the beginning. You know, I was kind of like a, you know, circus act, right? And so we played L.A. in Calgary. And we called up a guy from the miners, a guy named Kenny Sabrin.

He was a defenseman. And so I ended up on the ice with Gretz and Ken Baumgartner and Jay Miller. Okay. So this young kid we called up from the miners absolutely like laid grets out in the corner. So then yard sale, gloves, helmet sticks flying everywhere. And it's a line brawl. And so Timmy Hunter was one of my line mates and he was on the ice. And so Jay Miller and Bomber were trying to get Adam two on one of them, right?

So I'm like, I can't let that happen. So I jumped on Baumgartner's back. Okay? And he basically went like this, picked me off like a little fucking mosquito. And he just fucking drilled me like right between the eyes and split my forehead wide open. So I'm fucking, you know, wrestling with bomb garden. And all of a sudden I get this fucking tap on my shoulder. And I look over and it's grats.

And he's like, kid, we got to get you to the bench, you know. You're fucking bleeding and shit. So this is how I think. So as Gretz is escorting me to the bench, I say to myself, should I fucking sucker Wayne Gretzky right now? You know? So my common sense kicked in and I said,

that would probably be a bad career move. So I didn't. And so I went back to the bench. I went to the dress room. They sold me up. And I came back and I scored two goals that night. And I was the first start of the game. And I think that's exactly when my teammates accepted me that, you know, that I was here to, you know, to help them win at Stanley Cup.

And, you know, after that, it was, it was pretty good. That's unreal. You imagine if you were to sucker Grexky? Oh, my God. Yeah. I would add the whole L.A. bench on me. They would have jumped over the fucking bench and it would have been a bench clearing brawl. No question about it.

You know, in your book, and I have to be forthright, I put it out on two. Twitter. I've just read it about a week and a half ago. I am about 10 years after the fact. And it was from start to finish, that book is a hold on to holy shit level. Yeah. You got some like crazy stories about pain endurance that I find super fascinating. And I was hoping I could get you to talk about your first 50 goal season because you'd do it on a bum knee. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we were We were in L.A. playing against the Kings, and Tony Granado was a similar kind of player as I was. You know, he was highly skilled and, you know, mouthy and lippy and whatever. And so he, and we were getting killed.

I think we lost the game like 11 to 4 in L.A. that afternoon. And right at the end of the game, I saw Granado coming up the ice, and I stuck my knee out, and we hit knee. on knee and you know I knew something was was wrong and so we got back to Calgary and and I was close to getting 50 goals like I think I had 47 at that time and so we had a few days off so I was able to get some rehab and some ice and whatever and then we played Vancouver the next game and And, you know, the doctors were kind of like, you know, I don't think, you know, you should be playing or whatever, right? So the, after the morning skate, I went to the doctor's office and he basically put me through a whole bunch of exercises, right? And I couldn't do any of them, but I fucking sucked it up and, you know, whatever.

And then that night I went out and scored my fifth, I scored a hat trick against Vancouver and scored my 50th goal with, basically a second-degree tear of my MCL of my knee. And then the playoffs started right after that, and I was against Edmonton. And so basically I was on the novicane drip for, you know, for two weeks because not only did I have a bum knee, but I also had a separated shoulder at the same time. And so basically just go in and get frozen, you know, before every game and then go out and play. And then after the game, ice bags and ultrasound and all that.

that. I think you wrote in the book, something along the lines is the trainer knew you weren't 100%. So he made you do the duck walk around. Yeah. And I can tell you, I was fucked like, you could have peeled me off the ceiling. That's how much pain I was in. You know, the cat on the fucking, you know, that was me. So.

But you know what? The hardest thing for a professional athlete to do is sit out. you know, to watch your teammates sort of go to war and, you know, you're sitting in the stands and there's absolutely fuck all you can do, you know, like that's the worst feeling you can have. And so, you know, you played the majority of your career, you know, with some sort of nagging injury, right? Yeah, like I played two full seasons with high ankle sprains. And I didn't tell the fucking coach or coach or trainer or nothing, you know,

I just, you know, they would tape my ankle up every, every practice, every game, and, you know, but. How about with the night in, you're playing in Calgary, I believe, back in the WHL, when you get high-sticked? Three root canals later. Oh, crazy stuff. I don't know, I just, I was just, I don't know, just, one of those guys is tough and had high, a high pain tolerance, you know. But like I said, more importantly, I didn't like, I didn't want to sit out, you know, I wanted to be out there with my teammates and, you know, so you, so you sacrifice a lot. But now I'm paying for it, right?

I'm 52 years old and every morning I have a real tough time getting out of bed and, you know, takes me good 45 minutes to warm up at the golf course now and, you know, all that kind of stuff. So it's, you know, I'm paying the price now for not taking care of myself injury-wise during my career, that's for sure. I had Chris Dingman on earlier this week, and he had, he told me, he's like, you got to ask about one of the last games, you're with the flames, you got a day off before you're playing L.A. You're out golfing with a group of guys, and Castles dares you to go to Vegas. No, it was Iggy. Was it Iggy?

It was Iggy. Yeah. So we were in a, we're in a 15 passenger van, like budget rent the van, right? And we just finished playing Pelican Hills, which is sick golf course in Newport Beach in L.A. And we're driving back to LAX where we were staying. And we're driving by the John Wayne Airport in Orange County. And he's sitting in the back of the fucking, and we're all hammered, right? because we're out of the playoffs.

We have no chance. You know, it's a day off, whatever. We have two games left, one in L.A. and one in San Jose. And Iggy fucking yells. You don't have the balls to fucking take us all to Vegas. So I did a fucking eight-laner across the fucking freeway. Pulled up to the front door.

I bought, I think it was 11 plane tickets to Vegas. And we all got on the plane, went to Vegas the night before the game. stayed up all night got to the airport at fucking I don't even know what time it was like eight in the morning jumped on a plane came back

just in time to get back for morning skate that that morning so crazy stuff you bring a whole new meeting to playing guilty I mean us and you guys talk about guilty

but that's on a whole new level yeah definitely was but you know we always used to say, can't replace good times, man. Yeah. I'm just keeping track of the time, Theo.

We're closing in on 45 minutes. I just want to know, do I got five minutes with you left? Yeah, yeah. You can go to the top of the hour if you want. Okay, okay. Perfect. All right. I want to talk about coaches.

You've had some very decorated coaches. You've had some very lackluster coaches. I had heard you'd read, I think it was in your book, you said something along the lines of, coaching ain't hard, just it's people management, but people get wrong all the time. Looking back through your career,

who was maybe one of the better coaches you had, and what did they try, what did they help you with? Well, my favorite guys were the, you know, were the sort of hard-ass old school guys, you know, because if you worked hard,

they'd leave you alone. The guys had the most difficult time were with the exes and old guys and guys that never really played the game, so they didn't really fully understand, you know? And I'm not a video guy, right? You know, that's not how my brain works. You know, I'm wired for competition.

And no matter what kind of shape I was in, if you threw a puck on the ice, I'd give you everything I had every single night. And so, you know, I hated practice. I hated working out. but I just love to play the game, right? And so with the X's and those guys and the fitness guys, you know, of course I'm going to butt heads with those guys because, you know, I don't want to be there, right? I just want to show up for the games and I just want to play the games, right?

And, you know, towards the end of my, towards my end of my time in Calgary, like we had a young team, like really young team. And so, you know, we'd have like an hour and a half practices. and I'm just like, this fucking sucks, right? You know? Because I don't need me. What do I need to learn, right? But I knew that, you know, we had a lot of young guys that needed, you know, needed the ice time and needed the reps and all of that.

So, but I, like, Crispy, who was our coach when we won the Stanley Cup, our practices were 35 minutes every day. and we did the same five drills every day for the whole entire year. And it never changed. And I love that. It was awesome. You know? And if you wanted to stay out after and do extra work, whatever you could, you know.

But, you know, guys like Dave King and Pierre Paget and those kind of guys, they were, they were exhausting. Exhausting. So, Chris, be having him as your first NHL coach was a guy. Well, I would say he was instrumental in helping me make it because he believed in me and gave me, you know, the opportunity to, you know, to do what I, what I did. And, you know, he lived with my mistakes early on in my, you know, my career because, you know, I was pretty raw. You know, I came from junior where I had the puck all night long. Like, I didn't have to play defense in junior. And then I get to the NHL level and I got to learn how to play without the puck, right? But, you know, as much as I didn't like Dave King, Dave King made me a better player without the puck, you know.

And so I became this sort of all-rounded player, right? Where I, you know, played the power play. I penalty killed. I was out in the last minute. I took important faceoffs, you know, all that. kind of stuff. And it was his influence, you know, that really taught me where to be positioned on the ice so that I'd be a way better defensive player. And because of that, I had the puck more, you know, because I was in positions where I would get the puck in good positions,

you know, to, you know, to transition up the ice. So, you know, and I say at the end of the day, I learned something from each guy, you know, that, you know, that I carried with me, you know, throughout my whole entire career. But I love the old school guys like Brian Sutter and Ronnie Lowe and John Muckler and, you know, those kind of guys were, you know, they just wanted you to work hard. And that was easy for me, right? Yep, show up and go to work. Yep, yeah.

Bring your lunch, pill. You know, you sign your biggest deal going to the New York Rangers. You get to play on the fly line. I got a buddy who works with Mr. York in Wisconsin, Minnesota. One of the two. I can't remember now. But he was wondering what it was like playing on the fly line with those guys. It was unbelievable.

Yeah, we were on fire there for, especially the Olympic year. Like December when they picked the team, like our line was probably the best line in hockey. you know and all we had to do is get big e the puck and you know that was it well he was for a while there he was the most dominant man in all of hockey oh yeah he's massive like he is massive massive massive his legs and his yeah i'll tell you a great story so 1991 Canada Cup we're doing our fitness testing and they had the grip the grip test So I get up there, I grab the grip, 40, okay? Scott Stevens comes behind me, grabs it, 60, okay?

Eric Lindros is 18 years old, hasn't played a game in the NHL, grabs this grip thing, 80. Unbelievable. It's like ridiculous. And then in that tournament, like he absolutely was fucking laying guys out, left, right, and center. It was like, who is this? guy. It was unbelievable. And his stick, honestly, I could barely pick it, like I could barely lift it off the ice to stick handle with it. That's how heavy it was and stiff. It was ridiculous. I used to take it in practice just to fucking make the guys laugh. It was hilarious. I couldn't

even raise the puck with it. Yeah. Yeah, he's a freak of nature. Well, in New York, one of the things that jumped out about, I mean, there was lots in your book, but I guess I never really thought about it until I read it. But you were in New York City when the Twin Towers were hit. Yeah. Remember that day? Yeah. Well, what's interesting was when I was in Colorado, I was there when Columbine happened. Well, like those two Columbine, absolutely.

And that's why that's why I often refer to myself as the real life living Forrest Gump. Because I was, you know, I was in Columbine. And then I went to New York a year later and 9-11 happened. So, you know, we were 20 blocks away from the Twin Towers when it happened, right? And I was rooming with Sandy McCarthy that morning. And we, for some reason, we fell asleep with the TV on. And I woke up and I saw this. plane fucking flying into the towers and I was like wow what's this movie and then next thing you know

the reporter come on and saying yeah plane is just flown into the into the towers and then the second plane came and then you know because what happened was for the first time ever in the history of the new york rangers we were going to have training camp at madison square garden and so all that happened we all went down to masson square garden we actually actually did our fitness tests that day. And then I remember walking back to the hotel. And we had to walk through Times Square to get back to the hotel. And, you know, there's usually 100,000 people there every day walking around, Times Square. And it was completely empty and deserted. It was like, it was nuts. Can't remember what that Tom Cruise movie was where they showed that scene when,

when Times Square was empty. Well, that's what it felt like it was crazy. And then they shut down all the bridges so we couldn't get out of there. And then eventually we did. And then we ended up having the rest of our training camp at our practice facility in Rye. So it was bizarre.

And then we went around and visited the different fire halls and police stations and whatever. It was surreal. It was surreal. Well, you look. back on just my life, that is one of the moments that just sticks out. I was in school in grade like 11. And every class, the teacher would basically tell you to shut up, sit down, and they roll in a TV and you watch. That was it. We didn't do anything else.

Yeah. It's what's the crazy world we're living in right now, you know? Like where this is all going to end up is, you know, your guess is as good as mine. But I hope that, you know, common sense prevails here and that, you know, we get back to some sort of semblance of what life was like before all this happened. Well, probably which leads me into my next question, which is a lot of people are wondering if you're going to run for political office. You're a, You're a guy who on social media, a lot of people think exactly what you're saying is bang on. And they, well, once again, I don't know how many times I read it before I hopped on here. Like, is you going to run?

Question one, is he going to run for political office? They ever had thoughts about that? Well, you know what? I've been asked several times by the Conservative Party of Canada. And I've just said, you know, I think being in the mental health space, the addiction space, is probably where I'm supposed to be right now. You know, and, but, you know, I've always been a shit-disturber. And, you know, that's kind of, well, it's interesting because I talked to a girl from

CBC the other day because of my We-Day quote. And I told her, I said, I don't talk to CBC anymore. She's like, what are you talking about? I go, I don't do interviews for CBC. anymore. She's like, why? Because I said, well, because you're a propaganda arm for the Liberal Party of Canada. I said, I'm conservative, and I said, you're probably going to take what I'm going to say, and you're going to twist it around, and you're going to, you know, whatever. And, you know, I said, I have my own, I have my own TV station, radio station, newspaper right on my phone,

because I have, you know, I have 112 followers on Twitter. I have another 7,000. thousand on Facebook, you know, another 20,000 on Instagram, you know, another 20,000 on LinkedIn. So I said, if I want to get my message out there, I just have to log into my phone and, you know, say what I need to say. So what do you think of the current government then? And I don't know if I want to go down this road. Actually, I know I do. I just don't know how much time we have to spend on. Yeah, we got time. Well, you know, it's just straight hypocrisy. Okay. you know, they tell us not to do something and then they go and do it, you know. And to me, that, you know, that just doesn't sit well, you know.

Three ethics violations, blackface, you know, and he's still the prime minister of our country. So if a conservative or an NDP or a block, Quebec guy did it, they would be forced out, you know, by this cancel culture, you know, and, you know, that's not the Canada I grew up in, you know. You know, the west and the east is completely divided, you know, and that's all been brought on by Trudeau and the liberals, you know. And social media. Yeah. Social media loves to create a divide. They divided. Yeah. We all know how social media. Well, I think we all know how social media works. You follow something. You like something. It starts feeding you more of that, right? So if you like conservative stuff, they feed you.

And, you know, you talk about CBC cutting up what you say. Both sides do that. Honestly, Theo, it's such a hard thing. I think all of us are sitting in the back room talking about. We're like, I don't even know who to, who do you turn to right now? I know. Yeah. I agree.

I agree. You know, like I grew up in Western Canada. Okay. And, you know, one of the reasons why. I was successful in my hockey careers because I wasn't afraid to work because I had ample examples of people who worked hard were successful. Like I grew up in a farming community in Manitoba and I watched people get up at 6 o'clock in the morning and worked till 10 o'clock at night and they went on nice vacations.

They drove nice cars. They had nice houses. You know, I grew up very poor. You know, I lived in a little rental house and I said, you know, I don't want to live in Russell Manitoba for the rest of my life. Like I want to do something. But I had that hard work instilled in me as a young person going, if I work hard, you know, there isn't anything I can accomplish. And the fact that we can't find work in Western Canada, when it's the complete soul of every single person that lives in Western Canada, we just want to work. And we can't. So, and then Easterner,

are saying we're winers because we want to work. Like, how ridiculous is that? Very. You know what I mean? And then, you know, they want to cancel all the pipelines, but they filled a tanker full of... And went to the Panama Canal. And went 20,000 miles and took it to New Brunswick.

Like, is that not stupid? Well, I think all of us, specifically in Western Canada. I can't speak for the other side because I've been, you've been to the Eastern Canada. There's a lot of great people across this entire country. But it hurts my brain. It just hurts it when you read the story about the ship going around by the Panama

Canal and you're like, why not just put the pipeline in? Why not put people back to work on a project that'll make all the country benefit from it? Save us expense on the one side, make us money on the other side. The money goes out. everywhere helps everybody living in this entire country.

Yeah. Well, and then, you know, Michael Moore, you know, puts out this documentary. Yeah. Because every green technology needs fossil fuel in order to be green. What?

You know what I mean? Like, and, you know, we're the, we were the third largest producer of, you know, natural resources on the planet. And we just shut it down. I don't know what to say. Explain that.

Explain that to me. Here's where I said, okay. I'm, before we started talking, if you would have heard my name, you would have been like, who's that, right? And so I sit in Lloyd Minster. I'd go to work every day. I have my wife, my kids. I do a podcast on the side.

I watch what's going on and I go, man, this will put me in a full panic mode if I think about it too long because at the end of the day, we all have our spheres of influence. Yeah. Right? So yours, obviously, from your followers, is bigger. And I got a little following. So it's not like it's nothing, but it's small. And so I watch what's going on in the political landscape.

And I'm just waiting. I'd love to sit here and go, I'm going to run for political office tomorrow and whatever. But the same thing would happen is what I just said, right? You go, who's running? And so I wait for somebody, and I think a lot of us are waiting for somebody just to grab a hold of the reins, hop in, and away you go. And I always, honestly, the guy I always stare at is Brad Wall. I still am having a hard time wondering why he isn't running for it and winning it. Because I think all the conservatives need, the popular vote showed us last vote,

is if you had the right person, all the Canada is behind them. Right now we're going, well, it's this person or this person. Nobody seems to know if we're going to have the right guy. Or a woman, for that matter. The biggest problem with the conservatives is they're letting the media control their message. you know and you know I met Andrew Shear I think he's a wonderful guy he's a you know kind and all that stuff but they they don't they run his show you know and he hasn't pushed back once you know you'll get a guy like Trump down south he he doesn't let them control the narrative he controls the narrative right when every single everybody's against them and he's still, you know, so he's able to get his message out there because he uses social media, you know, and he has a very, very smart guy, you know, that Parskell guy

who's been running his social media. The guy's a genius. So you think everything Trump says then is planned? Like, I mean, even the absurd things he says where everyone's like, what in the hell is he saying? Absolutely. For sure, because he knows the, the Democrats are going to go nuts. Crazy. Well, this has been, I tell you what, I love. I met, I met Trump too, and when I played in New York, and I thought he was a really nice guy, super nice guy. Genuine, cared about me and, you know, was personable. So, you know, even Shaq said it. You know, I've seen interviews with Shaq who said he's hung on with Trump all the time

he loves him you know I love Shaq you know he's no filter guy he says whatever the fuck he wants to say you know we need more people like that everybody's so afraid the conservative people are so afraid of being called the racist that they just don't

they don't fucking say a word so if you don't push back you know they're gonna run your show and I I'm not I'm not going to, I'm not, I was silenced for so long with my abuse and my story of trauma and it ate my fucking lunch. It's never going to happen again. If I got something to say, I'm going to say it. I don't give a shit what people think about me. Well, and I think people like yourself,

the reason why you're picking up followers, left, right and center is because that is disappearing fast. Yeah, I'm their voice. I'm their voice. I'm their voice. You know, and like I said, I don't care. I don't care. You know, I want my country back. I want just common sense back, right? That is the country, I guess, right? Like, I just want, when you pick up the news article, you're like, oh, that makes you kind of sense.

Would you call yourself a racist? Myself? Yeah. Certainly try not to be, but I don't know. I laugh all the time. Now I'm like, I don't know. Like, if I say anything. You just go in front of the country and said, we're all a bunch of racists.

Yeah. I don't know. I guess to answer your question, no, I don't consider myself a racist. I try and be as fair. I think 9% of us. And you've seen the 1%. You talked about it way back at the start of this. There's,

you know, where you go in this province, country world. There's people with shitty views. Yeah. But majority is, the best for everyone. I also know because I'm, you know,

I'm in the psychology space is that that, that's learned behaviors, right? Those are learned behaviors. If you grow up with a racist, you're going to be a racist. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so, you know, I get the fact that, yes, we need some diversity training and we need some of that stuff. But to call all of us racist is unfair and unwarranted.

Yeah, there is a small percentage of. people, but, you know, they've, they've never been taught anything differently, right? So, you know, it's, it's messed up. It's just, it's just, I don't know, I don't know where this is all going to lead to and, and, you know, eventually it'll come to a head, you know, hopefully sooner rather than later, you know, like, are you going to get a vaccine? Oh, man. I, I, I, right? There it is. Well, I just, I don't like it. We were having this conversation the other day.

It's like if tomorrow they said the only way your kid could go to school is by having a vaccine, are you going to get your kids vaccinated? It's like, well, then it doesn't really feel like a choice. And it feels like here it is. You got to abide by this. You got abide by what we say. And what's so lovely about all of North America is our freedom. We have freedom of choice, freedom of speech.

And as time goes on, it just feels like a little more it gets taken away. Yeah. And actually, you know, I was talking with a friend earlier on the, about some of this. And the thing is, is in the very beginning, Theo, I was watching it all. I watched everything. I watched so much Justin Trudeau, my head hurt. Yeah. And I was stressed.

And I think the entire country was stressed. And I sometimes wonder if they knew that would happen. And then after a month or two, everybody would be like, okay, the world's not falling. The sky is not, you know, like we're okay. And now what I hear is none of us are watching it. And now you see here, the scandal after scandal after scandal. And you're like, man, now none of the country is watching this and it's sliding all by. Yeah.

You ask about a vaccine. I don't know what to say. It's interesting to talk about because you don't know, I don't know the parameters of it. Right now you're saying if the government walked in said, you need to have this. Otherwise, you can't go to work. I'm fucking super sketched out. I think everybody would. Yeah.

Well, I want to know what's in the vaccine. What type of, you know, chemicals are in the vaccine? What are the side effects of each and every one of these chemicals that I'm putting in my body? Is there a microchip in there as well, right? You know, like I want to know. You think they gave him a micro-trip in the vaccine? Who knows? Who knows?

Right? You know, when you got Bill Gates out there, you know, he's going to make, I don't know, 100 billion vaccinating the whole entire world. I don't know. You know? Sure makes me. Like what I tell people is, you know, before you call me a conspiracy theorist, like go do your research because it's all out there

but Theo nobody likes going to do research I know I get it everybody everybody is uh likes easy right oh that's what happened oh yeah Kim Kardashian flash the mob whatever it is and they carry on with their Dave Trudeau apologize whoopty do they don't nobody I shouldn't say nobody a small percentage of the people actually go do the research yes And probably what's coming, the best thing that's coming out of COVID is more people are doing the research. Yeah. The thing with the word conspiracy is conspiracy has a negative connotation.

So as soon as you say the word conspiracy, right away, everybody thinks loony. Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. But the more that comes out about every last little thing, and, you know, we're talking politics and vaccines, but I mean, look at what came out about Epstein, the documentary. Like, fuck my life that hurts my head. Yeah. And that shows systematically how a guy with way too much money got away with horrendous shit for way too long and people knew about it.

Well, who were the most successful businesses through COVID, Amazon, Walmart, right? So we're given, you know, because money is power. and then when you have power, you can abuse people. It's a very simple formula. So you're saying if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck probably is a duck. Yeah. Yeah. That's how I feel about it.

Well, I've kept you a few minutes long. I could talk politics all day long, every day. But, you know, I never used to follow politics. And then as soon as Trump walked down the escalator, I started watching politics and I became this, I became addicted to politics. And, you know, it's fascinating. It's fascinating how they, how they, you know, influence people. So where do you think this leads in?

Well, it's going to come through ahead eventually. Has to. It always does, right? So, you know, I don't know, you know, the fact that Trudeau, is 40 points and conservatives are 22 if he calls an election like it's the end of Canada I believe as we as we know it it's it's over if you get some majority can you imagine what's going to happen he has a minority and look at the stuff he's doing well that's why people with your platform and heck even me right we uh here's so many so many sports shows in particular

I listen to a lot of sports, but a lot of people, I guess, just with platforms in general, don't want to talk about politics. And I think more and more, man, we all got to start paying attention. Otherwise, it's going to disappear. You know, it's just going to pass and it's going to be too late. And then we're, you know, we're going to be going, how the hell did that happened? Well, it feels like it's happening right now. And that's what they're, that's what they're banking on, you know, is, well, they're already trying to suppress information already, right? anybody who has a different opinion of, you know, other than liberal, you've got to really,

you've got to really search for the information, you know. And if you don't, you know, then you have only one side of the spectrum, one side of the picture, right? So, you know, and I laugh at people, you know, I laugh at liberals, you know, because their playbook is, You know, they insult you first, right?

And then they'll just keep coming at you, coming at you, and then at the end, they'll call you a racist. That's their playbook. They don't really have any argument. They have no rebuttal for blackface. They have no rebuttal for all these ethnic violations. Nothing, you know. It's hilarious. You know.

You know, when, you know, when, you know, when, you know, we've become a banana republic you know the the the the patients are running the asylum basically what what it is you know so two of the stupidest people in Canada the finance minister and the prime minister are running this country zero zero zero zero zero leadership skills I've played for some of the greatest leaders on the planet. They were all humble. They were all compassionate, caring, loving people. This guy is day by day.

He runs seat of his pants. If you think he cares about you, he doesn't. He only cares about himself. Well, this has been very interesting. Honestly, I'm happy it came up. I can see how passionate you are about it. And I think a lot of us are behind closed doors where nobody can hear. We're all talking about it.

But nobody, you stick your head up and you get attacked for talking about it. And, you know, if that's the case, we're going to lose. You know, if you're, you know, don't be afraid. You know, don't be afraid. Like I said, I was silenced for the majority of my life. You know, 16 years ago, I had a fully loaded pistol in my mouth ready to take my own life. Because I stayed silent because I stopped using my voice or I didn't use my voice, you know. God gave us a voice for a reason, and that was to use it.

And whether you're in the mental health space or addiction space or political, whatever it is, you know, like you can't carry this shit around with you because it eats your lunch, you know, and, you know, part of the reason why I'm so boisterous politically is, you know, I have a voice and I'm going to use it. And if you like it, great. If you don't, that's your prerogative too, you know. Conversation and rebuttal is part of life, you know. I know that 50, percent of the people that live on this planet don't like me. But I know that 50 percent, I know that 50 percent do, do. So I'm going to hang out with the 50 percent that do like me, you know, and it's that simple, right? I think, I would argue that. I would say they make you feel like

50 percent of the people don't like you. Right. Well, because, because, you know, I, unfortunately, you know, I've had to choose because because they want to say. divided, right? I think things like podcasting and alternative sources of information, you know, I always think of Joe Rogan. I listen to a lot of them. He's a smart guy. He has very interesting people on platforms like that to get around the government being able to dictate what's talked about. Because that's how you get power is the will of the people, right? If you have the will of the people and if you're, and if you, they're scared, to speak up, you become their voice, right?

You become the voice for those people that are afraid to, you know, talk about their opinion, what they think is right or wrong. And so, you know, that's kind of how I see my role, is that, you know, I know that there's a lot of conservative people in Western Canada who are afraid to talk, you know. Like I said, I've been silenced my whole entire life. that's never going to happen again, you know? I guess one of the, just changing the subject. It's something I've wanted to ask you since reading your book.

It was in your first couple of chapters. It was very, very difficult to read. And I'm the guy reading it, not having to experience it. I know you, I've heard you say you want to talk about the solutions and not the problem. And talking about Graham James is like reliving the traumatic events. So I guess I would say if people want to know about it, read the damn book because, I mean, the first couple chapters are about as skin crawling as they can get. I was wondering if you had, you know, you go around and talk, our previous COVID, you go around and talk to people who've been through events such as that and other things. Specifically, athletes, I think of hockey.

I traveled around and played a lot of hockey and lived in billet houses and that kind of thing. Is there advice you can give parents to ensure or help shield or whatever you think the word is so that a Graham James doesn't happen? Well, I always say go with your gut. If you see something that makes you feel uncomfortable, then, you know, go with your gut. you know um these guys are master manipulators of the system you know the grooming the grooming process starts with the adults it doesn't start with the kids it starts with the adults so these guys infiltrate themselves into kids organizations first and foremost right then they gain the trust of all of the people who make the decisions right

Then once they have that power, then they start grooming the kids. And the last thing in the process of all of that is, you know, kids get molested. And it's a long, drawn out process. So it doesn't just happen overnight. No, no. No, it's calculated. It's manipulated. It's all of that, you know.

But, you know, for me, you know, I've been. able to do lots of unpacking of all of this, right? And, you know, I actually look at Graham James as a gift in my life now. Because without that experience, you know, I'm not in this space. I'm not in this platform. I'm not, because without the experience, you know, I'm not an expert. You know what I mean? And so, you know, the universe picked me because of the great are good in the bigger picture, right? You know? And so, you know, I look at it completely different.

I don't look at it as a burden anymore. I don't look at it as, you know, I don't feel sorry for myself. I don't want anybody to feel sorry for me. You know, I, when I told my story is when my life changed completely, 180 degree turn, you know, and that I become this safe place for people to talk about, you know, what happened to them, you know. And, you know, that's the way I look at it, you know. And I've been given a second chance at life. You know, like I said, if I would have pulled the trigger, I wouldn't be here.

But I didn't for a reason, right? Everything happens for a reason. You know, none of this was coincidence. And, you know, when I... When I started to go down my spiritual journey, you know, these things were kept shown to me, you know, the humility, the surrender, you know, the understanding, making sense of it all, right? All of that.

And, you know, what I always tell people is if you're in pain, that's a sign from the universe that you have an opportunity to change your life. Because the universe will keep putting lessons in front of us. until we get them, right? And, you know, when I stopped drinking and was able to think with a clear head, those lessons, I could catch them. And I looked at them as learning opportunities and opportunities to change, you know. And, yeah.

So don't always look at things that happen to you as a burden. Look at them as, you know, preparation for the next phase of your life, for the next healing opportunity that's going to be presented to you because the universe does it, you know. And if you believe in something greater than yourself is running this show, you know, life gets easier, right? You know, like I used to live in drama all the time. I don't live in drama anymore.

And people that bring drama into my life are gone. because I just want to have peace and joy and happiness and love and care and respect and you know all those things we learn growing up in Western Canada the that's the heart of who we are you know we respect people we work hard we give back right you know that's that's the core of who we are and that's being taken away from us so yeah of course we're going to be upset of course we're going to push back right You know, so, you know, so if you're listening to this, you're conservative, you know, it's time to fight back. It's time to use your voice.

You know, don't be afraid, you know. Racism is just a word, you know. If you're not acting it out, then you're not a racist. So when somebody calls you that, it's like water off the duck's back, right? You know, I know that I've been directly involved in raising over 100, million dollars in charity for all kinds of different organizations. You know, that's not who I am. Who they're telling me I am and who I am is completely different.

So I don't buy, I don't buy the propaganda. I don't buy into it, you know. I live, I live in a free country, you know. Yeah. Well, I think it's super powerful what you talk about. Yeah. One other thing on the Graham James thing is I asked what parents can do. I had it was kind of, it was a very eye-opening experience.

I had Ambrose Furkus come on here and I don't expect you to know who that is. He's a kid from the area and he talked about his billet dad trying to molest him. And the next day he called his parents and it all came out, whatever. But he talked about it on the podcast and tons of people had. no idea. And it was the first time I never, you know, I, I think I've said it before, I played a lot of hockey and I almost feel lucky now. I must have fallen in the right spots not to be put in any of those situations because. Well, you had great parents. You had great parents. Right. Yeah. You know, they, they pray on people like me where my parents both struggled with

addiction and I was looking for attention and, you know, I wasn't getting any attention. And, you know, they love broken homes, they love divorced parents, you know, that kind of stuff, right? That's what they look. And honestly, I think Ambrose, by all accounts, comes from a very good family. I think the thing that... The reason why is because he picked up the phone right away and said something's wrong. Yeah. Right?

Was a guy like me, I want to get to the NHL. I can't call my parents. And I knew if I would have told, first of all, end of my hockey career because I'm a shit disturber. Nobody would have believed me, right? You think nobody would have believed you? Back in that time? Mm-mm.

Because he had, he was a hockey news man of the year. Yeah, I know. So who you believe? Think about that. Think about that for a second. Who are you going to believe? Here's where I struggle with. And I'm sure this has been brought up to you before.

The hockey man of the year, there had to have been a fucking unbelievable amount of people, grownups. I'm not talking kids, because kids probably too who got it. But grownups who went, hey, just kind of an odd duck. Like, they had to, like they, oh, yeah. So it's crazy to me that back then even, nobody would say anything. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, they knew, well, you know, the stories are endless, right? Look at all the stuff that's come out since Sheldon came out for. You know, the Catholic Church has to talk about it every day. Jerry Sandusky. Yeah. They would. You know what I mean? Like, and, you know, it's a, it's a 150 billion dollar industry.

Child trafficking is a hundred and fifty billion dollar industry. 150. What? Child trafficking is a hundred and fifty billion dollar industry. Proven fact. Google it. $150 billion for trial trafficking. Yep.

So people are buying kids to have sex with them. Oh. Fuck, that's not going to let me sleep easy at night. Yeah. That's fucked up. That's why you've got to have that conversation with your kids. Make sure when they're on their cell phones that they're not doing shit that shouldn't, because that's where these guys hang out.

that's where they hang out 750,000 pedophiles online every second of every day what 750,000 pedophiles online every day all day long so that that

documentary out of the shadows is real 100% real. So what would you say to a kid, what advice would you give to a kid that's listening to this and has either, you know, the first grown-up has tried?

What advice do you give that person? Tell an adult, like right away, or phone the police or, you know, like, they're out there, they're looking, They're looking for for messed up kids and they're going to shower them with attention and, you know, give them money and you name it, right? They know the deal. They know how to do this. It's scary stuff, right?

Yeah. I'm just, yeah, I got three kids under four. So I, well, four and a bed, you just turned four. And I just, it's something that weighs on my mind. Not that they're in a situation, but at some point, the statistics are saying at some point, they're going to have somebody try or be around somebody who certainly wants to. Well, here's another step. One in three girls.

One in five boys will have some sort of unwanted sexual experience before the age of 18. So that's one quarter of the whole entire population of the world that's going to have an experience such as mine. So now I really am lucky, right? Like, I mean, fuck. So start talking to your kids like now, you know, tell them, talk about what healthy touch is, what unhealthy touch isn't. You know what I mean? And then tell them, you know what?

You can come to me and tell me anything. I will never judge you. I will never, you know, be mad. Nothing, right? Because you got to build that trust in them because, you know, this is the, world that we live in, you know? Shit. Right? So anytime any of these allegations that come out about, you know, sexual abuse, I know they're, I know they're true because the stats don't lie. And I think

that the stats are extremely, extremely conservative. You know, I've been, I've been doing this for 11 years now. That one in three, one in five stat, bullshit. As many boys, get molested as little girls do. There is no distinction. And yet you want to meet Graham James again? Or not meet them. You said you don't have any. Like I read that.

It's not about me. I think it's because we don't understand the pedophile brain and how it works. I think it's a great learning opportunity so that, you know, you're asking me these questions. What do I look for? Yeah. He's going to tell us. he's going to tell us in an interview exactly what he's looking for has that never been done no nobody's ever sat down and done you know they got the i don't know fuck the criminal minds right

where they go through the mind of a serial killer is the one that pops to my brain they've never done that for a petapov i have have you seen anything yes never really searched for anything right so unless you search for it you don't know Right? I'm going to tell you, I read that chapter, and I could have grabbed a baseball bat and strolling across to the other side of the planet. Yeah. Yeah.

My dad was the same way, you know. But, you know, like I said, look at all the good that's come out of what happened to me, right? Took a lot of fucking bad, though, Theo. Your book, I mean, man, at times I went, I can't believe you survived all that. Yeah. But I did because there was a. there was a higher purpose right there was a higher purpose and I just needed to find it that's all right you know and that's the thing like you know there's not enough of these

conversations that happen like the conversation we're having right now but it doesn't happen because people are afraid to talk about you know what happened to but you know what I tell people? You're in the majority, not the minority. If you suffer for mental illness, guess what? You're in the majority, not the minority. You know, if you have an addiction problem, you're definitely not in the majority or the minority.

You know? And those of us who've experienced sexual abuse and mental health and addiction issues, guess what? We're the healers on this planet. I'm a healer. I help people heal. And if I didn't have the experience, I couldn't help anybody heal. Well, I'll put me on the opposite side of that coin.

I listened to you talk about it. And I just, I've never been put in a situation like that. And saying that, as time goes on and people hear Ambrose's episode and, you know, sure people hear this episode. And I've heard you talk about it about me too. I've had people stop me now in Lloyd. and some of them closer than I would have ever surmised and say, well, and talk about what happened. Blows my fucking brain away.

Like, it's just like I had no clue. Like I had a buddy in Moose Jaw who was involved with the team. And, you know, we became friends. And, you know, I sort of started exposing him to, you know, what I was doing. And as soon as people knew that him and I were hanging around, he said in Moose Jaw, he has, it's been unbelievable how many people have come up to him and told them their story because he was associated with me.

It's unbelievable. Because people just want to talk about this stuff, but there's, you know, we haven't created a safe space in society to talk about this stuff. and so every day we fight stigma like i fight stigma every day you know is it getting better than no like it's way better than it was but we still got 200 miles to go right because you know revealing what happened is is this is the first step there's like you know you spend the rest of your life healing Right? That's why I stay, when I stand up on stage, I say to people, I'm in therapy for the rest of my life. You know what people do? They're like, what are you talking about?

I'm going, I've experienced so much trauma in my life that this is for the rest of my life. And I'm completely okay with that. Because the more I put more I put myself into therapeutic environments, the more I heal. The happier I get, the more peace I have. calmer I am, all those things. But there's a stigma around therapy and treatment is there's something wrong with me. So when you break your arm, you go to the hospital and they fix it. If you experience trauma, you're broken. You need to be, you need to go fix it. But it's not as easy as just a bone healing. This is emotional healing, right? And emotional healing takes a long time to

you know and i think you you've touched on it several times sometimes the healthiest thing you can do for yourself is just talking about it talking in a safe place a safe place and there are not as many safe places as one would think or at least you build it up in your brain that it's not as big as or um not as many as you think because you're afraid to be judged yeah but you find those safe places uh where you can just say what's on your mind And usually, if you, well, not usually, hopefully, hopefully listeners or people have an individual or several that they can talk openly with without being judged because it is the most freeing thing in the world. Yeah. It's, it is such a huge step.

You know, and I've seen it live hundreds of thousands of times. I've seen it live. Or people come up to me and tell their story. And when they leave, their eyes are brighter. they have a little more balance in their step. And they don't feel alone anymore, right? And as human beings, like we're put on this earth to suffer in silence.

We're put on this earth to be in relationship with each other and help each other get through the most difficult times in our life. And that's the stigma part, is who am I going to tell? Right? Where am I going to go? So, you know, That's basically what I do every single day. It's try to create safe spaces and safe environments to people to get this shit off their chest. You know?

Because if you don't, it's going to affect your kids. And then your kids are going to be traumatized. And then they're going to grow up and traumatize their kids and so on and so forth. And, you know, this is a never-ending cycle. Never-ending cycle. This is two, you know, Adam and Eve ate the apple. That's trauma. Right there. So we're dealing with 20,000 and 20 years of trauma. You know all these Antifa people out there and Black Lives Matter people that are causing shit? So it's that's trauma. You want to see trauma? That's trauma. That's trauma. That's their trauma being acted out. That's all that is. It's not about the Black Lives Matter. It's not about Antifa. It's all people that have been trauma.

traumatized and they've suppressed their anger and sadness their whole entire life and now There's no consequences So now they're all out acting their acting out their anger and rage. That's exactly what's happened because nobody's ever dealt with their trauma Think about that nobody knows how to deal with their trauma Exactly because there's no safe spaces I think there's an underground there's an underground of these people out there that are that are doing this work but it's not mainstream and when it becomes mainstream then we're going to see an incredible awakening of of healing all over the

planet right now it's all underground because everybody's afraid it's it's I don't know social media is an absolutely amazing thing yeah that gets used 99% of the time for the wrong thing yeah yeah the video the video of uh you know the videos of good things happening go up the ranks right like they get promoted but that when the shit's the worst like think about it what is it Karen, Karen's the trendy word name for any woman or any man who does something racist, right? So then they make it seem like that's on every corner block. Meanwhile, we're all going, I just come back to my town of Lloyd Minster. I know in the town of Lloyd and surrounding community, the farming community,

there's such amazing people here. It's just amazing people. Unbelievable. Well, that night we came up and did that thing for mental health. 600 people bought tickets for a mental health event. I stood on stage and went, holy fuck. Like, oh my God. Like I said, I never thought I'd see this in my lifetime.

I sadly missed, I happily missed that, I guess. I was supposed to be there sitting interviewing you guys, helping interview you guys. Yeah, yeah. But our third was born that day. Oh, there you go. There you go. That's awesome. It wasn't meant to happen that.

time but here we sit anyways yeah so you know it's it's happening slowly but surely you know well it has to happen right because yeah i tell you what i let's go into the final segment i i feel like i've just watched a movie that's unnerved me and me and the wife back in college had a uh uh tradition after we'd watch something that was a little bit unnerving and you watch family guy and have a few chuckles And then you could go about your day or your night a little better. I go to as the nutty professor. Nutty Professor. Hey, that was good.

Little Eddie Murphy. Yeah. There's some funny. Funny shit. Well, it will go to the crewmaster final five. A shout out to Heath and Tracy McDonald. They've been huge supporters of the podcast. Five questions, Thiel.

Yeah. Try and keep it light. I have to say this probably for the 10th time. Or I'll say it 10 more times. I really appreciate you coming on and talking about some stuff and some stuff that really a lot of people are talking about behind closed doors. So thanks for that. But let's go on in the Final Five.

Who is the greatest player you ever faced on ice? And that comes from Mike Neeland off of Twitter. It's got to be greets. Has to be threats? Yeah. Mario's close. And I know both of them very, very well. I go to Mario's fantasy camp every year in Pittsburgh.

And, you know, he's one of my. top 10 favorite human beings on the planet. But, you know, two completely different body builds, two different ways they played the game. But, you know, I just, I just have, I just loved playing against Gretz because you had to be, you had to think like him. And that was hard to do because he he thought the game on a, you know, a level that nobody, nobody's ever, you know, achieved. You know, when you think about, you know, there's some NBA guys who don't have 3,000 career points, and they get two and three points for every shot they take. He's got 3,000 points.

Yeah, but Theo, he played in a different era. Doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. They were hucking and holding and grabbing and you name it, you know. You got a podcast. If you could have anyone you wanted, anyone, who would you want to come on and sit down and have a chat with? Trudeau.

Really? Mm-hmm. Think that had ever happened? You know, way he'd sit down across from him, would you? No. No. What would you ask? What would be your first question?

If Trudeau showed up, said, hey, Theo, how's it going today? I would ask him about his trauma. You think there's something there, then? There's no question. I grew up with a mom who was depressed their whole entire life. Caused me trauma. His mom? Severe mental illness.

Right? You know the thing about ego? is eventually, like if you lead with ego, eventually everybody resents you and hates your guts. But if you lead with compassion, humility, and, you know, empathy and all these things, people will follow you to the ends of the earth. You know? And I used to be one of those ego guys, full of myself, fucking asshole. I was an asshole, you know.

Nobody followed me. And then I switched, became compassionate, became a listener, all those things. That's why I have such a great following is people know what's truly in my heart. And I just want you to heal. That's it. That's all I want for people. And if I can be that conduit that connects the dots, man, that helps me heal. Right?

helps me heal and it helps me it reminds me of where I once was and that the possibility of change is is is achievable right we we have the most traumatized leaders most traumatized leaders in the history of our planet just because I know because I've been in the psychology space for you know 15 years yeah god if that ever happens I'll be the I'll be the first one down downloading it. Be the most listened to podcasts in the history of the planet. What do you still got left on your bucket list? I want to play in a senior tour event on the senior tour, golf.

Golf? Yep. Yep. I'm a scratch golfer, so. How about this? I applied for an exemption at last year's Shaw Charity Classic. They turned me down, so. Fuckers.

I know you play music and I think you're opening tomorrow night for a guy. Yeah, I'm opening up for Gord Bamford. So Gord, I met Gord at the Flames poker tournament. Geez, probably, fuck, it's got to be over 10 years ago. And so he, I told him that I was doing music. And so he, you know, he sort of encouraged me, help me out. sent them some songs and stuff. And then he started, excuse me, inviting me to his, his big charity event. He hasn't read Deer every year. And then we just became really good buddies

ever since. And so whenever he's around Calgary or whatever, he always asks me if I want to come up and sing a tune. So tomorrow, he's putting on a charity event for our foundation, the Breaking Free Foundation. And so I'm going to open up the show tomorrow night, so with one of my original song so what who who if you could if you could open for any band or group or musician who would it be who would you want to walk out on stage and play right before oh man geez remember a guy named bach owens baca owens no i i can't sit here and bullshit you that i do hey you know what dwight yokem is absolutely okay so dwight yokem was heavily influenced by bachowans oh it looks like I know who I'm listening to in the truck after this is done.

And so I grew up listening to Baca Owens because my dad and my uncle sang all these Baca Owens tunes and I friggin loved it. And go on YouTube and Google, Baca Owens made in Japan is my favorite song of all time because my uncle used to sing it all the time. And I just, I love, I just loved the song. And so, yeah, it would be unbelievable. Buck is dead now, but, you know, that's why I grew up listening to, you know, Johnny Cash. Legend.

Those old, hard school partying dudes, you know, like Willie and Whalen and, you know, all those guys. Final question for you. In the book, going to Nagano, you guys get to take, is it true you get to take the Rolling Stones playing? Yeah. What the hell was the Rolling Stones playing like? Massive. It was massive. And you know, it was funny, they had a, they had a big bedroom in the plane, right, on the top level.

Okay. So that's where we did all of our meetings, our power play, penalty killing, line meetings. Yeah, it was all up there. So, yeah. How the hell did that? Then the whole plane, the whole plane was all first class seat. So it was, it was ridiculous. Yeah.

Who had the hookup of Rolling Stones playing? Who knows? Who knows? Who knows? probably grets. I'm thinking grats, you know. Oh, that's awesome. Well, I got to say, man, this has been a lot of fun.

I really, really appreciate you coming on here. I think at some point we're going to have to sit down and do this again. But regardless, if it doesn't happen, I really do appreciate you hopping on this time. And spending, you know, we talked about 45 minutes. It's been a hell of a lot longer than that. Yeah. Well, you know, I'm very passionate about what I do, you know, whether that's mental health, addictions, trauma, politics, whatever it is, you know, I'm very passionate about, you know,

helping people heal and, you know, I've dedicated the rest of my life to doing that. Well, thank you. I know what it's like. I know what it's like to, you know, the being. be in pain, you know, not physical pain, but emotional pain. And, you know, I know what it's like. And I, and I know that there's so many people out there that, you know, are that way. And so, you know, if I can help in any way, I'm more than happy to do it. Final one for you now that I'm staring at it. What's Benny's skate sharpening? I've been

wondering this the entire podcast, your hat. So, uh, there's a guy that helps out at Mario's fantasy camp. Okay. Who does all the skate sharpening and his name is Binnie. Well, shout out to Benny. And I love this, I love, like, I love the old school. Trucker hat. Yeah.

So Benny's skate sharpening brings up a lot of different conversations. Ah, cool. Well, thanks again, Theo. Really appreciate it. Anytime, man. I appreciate you to ask me to do this. And hi to Ed. everybody in Lloyd Minster.

Hey folks, thanks again for joining us today. If you just stumble on the show and like what you hear, please click subscribe. Remember, every Monday and Wednesday a new guest will be sitting down to share their story. The Sean Newman podcast is available for free on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, and wherever else you find your podcast fix. Until next time.

How's everybody doing? Did you enjoy that? I assume if you waited this long, you either really, really want to hear who the guest 100 is, or you enjoyed that. And if you're still hanging out, you're waiting for the clue, and I'm here to tell you this episode, I'm not going to give you a clue. Instead, I'm going to give a shout out to Ken and Jen Rutherford,

who just had their sixth kid on Sunday night. So a huge shout out to Ken and Jen. You guys are awesome parents, awesome human beings. So happy for you guys. Happy, everybody came out of it healthy and happy. I look forward to meeting the little guy. And for the rest of you still listening, you're in for a real treat. I sit down with the 100th guest on Wednesday.

I don't think you're going to be able to calm me down. I probably am not going to sleep Tuesday night. And if you want to get in on the $200 gift card to Factory Sports or the round of four golf and two carts, round for four of golf and two carts to sandy beach head to social media hit up the podcast tag me hashtag who's 100 with your guess

for 100 each post will get you in and the draw will be made you'll hear it at the end of the 100th episode you'll hear who won but once again have a great week and we will catch up to you Wednesday until then