Shaun Newman Podcast - #974 - Ben Trudeau & Tanner Hnidey

Episode Date: December 24, 2025

Ben Trudeau is a Canadian entrepreneur and energy sector innovator from a Montreal-based entrepreneurial family, with significant ties to Alberta’s energy industry. He moved to Alberta in 2008 where he co-founded Alberta Free Energy Corp. (ABFE) which specializes in advancing alternative energy production and geothermal engineering. Tanner Hnidey is an economist, freelance speaker, social critic and author of his new book “Antichrist 2030”.We discuss Quebec, Bill C9 and Alberta Independence. Tickets to Cornerstone Forum 26’: https://www.showpass.com/cornerstone26/Tickets to the Mashspiel:https://www.showpass.com/mashspiel/Silver Gold Bull Links:Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/Email: [e-mail] Grahame: [phone]Bow Valley Credit UnionBitcoin: www.bowvalleycu.com/en/personal/investing-wealth/bitcoin-gatewayEmail: [e-mail] Prophet River Links:Website: store.prophetriver.com/Email: [e-mail] the code “SNP” on all ordersGet your voice heard: Text Shaun 587-217-8500

This is Viva Fry. I'm Dr. Peter McCullough. This is Tom Lomago. This is Chuck Prodnick. This is Alex Krenner. Hey, this is Brad Wall. This is J.P. Sears. Hi, this is Frank Paredi.

This is Tammy Peterson. This is Danielle Smith. This is James Lindsay. Hey, this is Brett Kessel, and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks. Happy Wednesday. Well, it is December 24th. And that means it is Newman Christmas.

And so I'm going to... I want to just, you know, quickly wish everybody a Merry Christmas. I'm going to do it on Christmas as well, but I'm sure there's lots of families that celebrate Christmas multiple days, or maybe you're one of those families who does, you know, morning and then afternoon, and you got a whole lot of eating to do. On this side, it's the Newman Christmas on Christmas Eve, and then I am flying with Shay on Christmas Day.

So I thought, you know what, I'm going to wish everybody, Merry Christmas on Christmas Eve, because this is when we celebrate Christmas on the Newman side. I want to thank Silver Gold Bull, Bull Valley Credit Union, Profit River, Windsor Plywood, Rec Tech, PlanetCom, Diamond 7 Meets, Caleb Taves and Renegate Acres, Guardian, plumbing and heating, ignite distribution. All these companies have made the podcast viable for 2025, and we'll hope to have them all back for 2026. But regardless, I just appreciate all these companies supporting what I do, and hopefully all of you lovely people have supported them in return for making it possible to continue to do the podcast that I so dearly enjoy doing. And I can't think any of these companies enough. They've been just fantastic to deal with over, you know, the course of several years for a lot of them. and appreciate them all being a part of what I do.

If you haven't, we got a couple of events coming up. The Mash Spiel comes up on January 17th. We still have room on that. If you want to stand up as an individual, you can do that. We're a team of four. And that's going to be in Kalmar, just west of Laduke in Alberta, January 17th. And that should be a cool day. We've got some interesting people coming.

Lee's Merle was the latest, along with Marty up north, Chuck Pradnick, Jamie Sinclair, Willie McDonald, and then Evachipiac's going to be there. Two's going to be there. I'm going to be there. So it's going to be an interesting little crew, pretty relaxed Saturday. If I think I can say that. I don't think everybody's going to be there for the curling. It's going to be more for the community that shows up.

And then the Cornerstone Forum returns March 28th. And the big thing, folks, that I just want to keep hammering on here is early bird tickets and December 31st. So if you're going to come, you're already like, yeah, I'm coming, but I haven't about the ticket. buy the ticket now. You're just saving yourself money. And if you're going to spend the night, make sure you get in on the room block. There's a block there on the website that you can click on and book your rooms at the hotel and conference center. That way you don't have to worry about, you know, where you're going to stay. You'll just be staying with us at the hotel. It's

going to be awesome. And look forward to seeing everybody in the new year. In the meantime, just we've got next week, well, Friday, there's no mashup. We're playing the first conversation that me and twos had and so that's going back to episode i think is 178 that's going to replay on friday and then next week i've got uh basically a replayed episode all week except for december 31st me and ken rutherford sat down and did the year-in-review episode so that's what you can expect next week um so i'm going to say it on christmas but i'm going to say it here on christmas eve because we celebrate christmas merry christmas to you all i hope uh all the businesses that have supported me just have a great year and a great year ahead and to anybody

listening who you know you're enjoying the show just appreciate you being along for the ride and look forward to seeing what 2026 brings and if you're listening or watching on spotify apple youtube rumble x facebook substack and you enjoy what you're seeing just make sure to share with a friend and uh tune in for today and maybe tomorrow and look forward to uh um availing some new guests in the new year. Let's get on to that tale of the tape. Today's guest is a Canadian entrepreneur and co-founder of Alberta Free Energy Corporation. I'm talking about Ben Trudeau. So buckle up. Here we go. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. This is this is

Well, I tell you what, it's a little bit of a special one because Tanner in a day is sitting beside me. He's on the Christmas episode coming out tomorrow. And then you have Ben Trudeau in studio as well. So gentlemen, thanks for hopping on and doing this. Well, my pleasure. Thank you for inviting me. Well, thanks for making the drive, Ben. And then you bring lunch and everything.

No, I think the thanks is all mine on this side. Before we go any further, you were mentioning the price of silver as you walked in. But here, there. there, there, I'll take yours. You take mine? Yeah, sure. Anyone who comes in studio gets a one ounce silver coin. What was the price of silver?

What were you saying? 97 today. 97. So is it going to hit 100 before the end of the year? I believe so. Yeah, $100 and, well, $97 an ounce where we sit today. Yeah. Canadian, to our American listeners.

And I keep reiterating this story. When Daniel Smith was first in studio with me, I gave her one and I'm sure it was $38. And so, like, you think that hasn't been that long. And up she goes. And this year has been wild to watch the price of it. Just continue to soar. Well, it's starting to cover the gas price to come here.

That's good. It's not bad. Yeah, not bad. You know, one of the things I have been to us in, the price of gas, buck. Yeah. Buck nine. Is it a buck nine? Buck 10?

Yeah. Yeah. It was a living Sylvan Lake and it was 105 yesterday when I fill up. You're always cheaper out there actually. sometimes in some of your places yeah demand supply yeah now you sir specifically and tanner you're you know the drill here you're welcome to hop in at any point i was just at reiterating this so i'll bring the audience up to speed of what we're talking about i had feteen on she was talking about bill c9 and then part way through it it comes out well it's the block who hold power and committee and

the re then they're pushing hard for this and like the block is why is the block pushing for bill That doesn't make any sense to me. I assumed I was going to rag on the liberals and then, no, it's a block. Well, if you know anyone from Quebec. So then I had Vesper on, and Vesper positioned it, and I'm oversimplifying this. People should go back and listen. They basically, they want a constitutional crisis in Canada to position themselves as completely different to Canadians. So whether it goes through, doesn't go through, that they have a conflict because they want a referendum on separation.

You've listened to Vesper, and in that one, he talks about being an immigrant to Quebec, and he said, I'm not the traditional. So if you got somebody traditional, I started laughing, and I'm like, yeah, I got that too. All right. So I'll invite Ben Trudeau. Your thoughts on Bill C9, the block holding the power in committee, and why on earth they would want Bill C9 in? Yeah, well, I want to say that I'm not traditionally either Quebec or I'm Albertan now. well fair enough fair enough but still i spent uh i spent like 21 years doing active politics in quebec from age 14 so quite quite quite involved in and involved in 95th referendum and then

involve actively in campaigning um for both uh the idq which is a party that i co-founded with 600 others by the way no it was not like uh but the idq is the party that is in power right now So the KAC, it's a coalition, it's a coalition of Logo who came from the PQ and our party, the IDQ, who were we never been separatists. So the IDQ was formed, so when I was young, 14 to 16, roughly, I was part of the PQ because the PQ were offering free concert for youth. in summers it was super cool they would have 150 buses bring you to a huge park

and have all these stars in Quebec like singers that were supporting the independence movement and you would just like go there with your Quebec flag on your shoulder and listen to a concert and then you will sign your membership

and all that then I shift to the liberals the provincial liberals because they were a bit more serious in their structure for the youth and all that. And at the time, Meach just failed, and they were negotiating Charlottetown for 92. And so I joined the youth movement of the liberal, and we didn't want to support Charlotte Town. But of course, our leader was Borassa, was premier at the time.

He was the one negotiating. So EU's is veto against our vote. And we're about 2,000 youth at the time. And what we've done, we resigned. The 2000 youth left the party. And then we started our own party in 94. And that party, we gathered 7% of the vote at the first election, which gave us the balance of power for the referendum

because you have to understand that in Quebec politics, it's there's two camps. Yes or no? you're either federalist or separatist this is where it starts beyond that policies and it's there's a lot of agreement no like whether you have the piquant power the liberal in power you will probably have the same results in policies for the province but one is separatist one is not and you're in one camp or the other well what we've done in 94 we created that midcamp saying that we're not separatist but

We're not federalist either. We believe that the federation doesn't work, and we need a strong Quebec within a revised union. And at the time, in 1994, bring back in context, the European Union was just freshly formed and all that. So our take at the IDQ was that we want a structure that looks like the European Union. Where the West will have their own stuff,

we have their own stuff, and we reform the functioning of Oval. to receive the order from the regions and like the European Union. So that was our take. And then we were dragged into the yes camp for the referendum because Parisou was trying to find a way

to win with Bouchard of the block. And the only way they could win is by bringing us in. And it's the complicated question of 95 it's because of us because we didn't want to to campaign for a separation we wanted to say okay we're not against a separation after negotiating with other one so that was the question 95 was do you give the mandate the premier to go negotiate and you with other one and if that deal fails then we separate and and so and at that time in 95 our leader was marius dumont was 24 years old

I was 22 years old. We ran our first campaign. So we started a party in March, ran a campaign starting in June, the election in September, and Pat Yuzo started the referendum process in November. And then we agreed to join the yes camp in June, June 12, 95, for referendum on October 30th, 1995.

So we just passed a 30-year anniversary of the Quebec referendum this past October. So you kind of have to understand, to know the Quebec landscape. And I realized, no, I believe that Vesper did a stellar job analyzing the situation. And the only thing missing in this analysis is some depth knowledge of the background of these parties and these people. Like when you say that Logo is a separatist because he was with the PQ, well, yes or no, because Logo shifted the IDQ, and he's the one that made the coalition happen with the IDQ, that center party. So, and then when you look at Quebec, since, so fast forward to Bill C9 now, why is the block who wants that? Well, again, I believe religion is a big thing.

So we have to understand that Quebec was overwhelming or overwhelmingly managed by the Catholic Church until 1968, until Expo 67. There's a phenomenon that happened in Quebec that never happened anywhere else in the world between 1967 and 1968. 1967 you have I believe I checked the stats recently because I knew I was coming here but I think in 1967 82% of the population was going to church at least once if not twice a week there was on the radio the cardinal of Montreal had this radio show every day at 7 p.m. to read the rosary and and there's over 56% of the French Canadian that would tune their radio at 7, go on their knees and do the rosary every night with the cardinal on the radio. The church was controlling the health, education, all the

social network of French-Canadian from a deal following the 1837 insurgency. So the first independence movement of Quebec after the loss of of September 13, 1759. So that's the loss on the plate of Abraham, Montcalm against Wolf. The first, so fast forward 60 years later, 1834, 1835, the English wants to forbid to speak French in Quebec. They want to, they're starting taking land

to give to Americans that want to stay loyal to the king. And this land has been French and has been farmed French people since 1602, no, 1598, 1588. So often this land that was grabbed by the English has been in their family for 200 years already. So it said, no way, you won't do that. So there was like a movement that was called the Patriots that was created to fight against that land grab.

That was the first independence movement of Quebecers. And they were expecting the American to come and help them. do that because they did help the American during the American Revolution. So it didn't turn out that way, and the main leaders of that revolution, the Patriots, will all hang. So 12 of them, like the top, it's like if today you would accuse, Alberta dependencies of Trajan, no, to Canada. and you hang the top 12 of them.

So that's what they've done in 1837. And after that, to stop insurrection, they made a deal with the Catholic Church, which deal ended up in 1967 with Expo 667, and they call it the Quiet Revolution in Quebec and all the rising of the FLQ and all that because the strategy of the English was to keep the French, the French-Canadian, in poverty.

You know, like in 1905, Desjardin, I don't know how you pronounce it in English, I have difficulties pronouncing French stuff in English, but Desjardin was created, a co-op, like a great union, because you couldn't get loans if you were French. Because loan document in Quebec was strictly written in English by the big banks. So, and today Desjardin, out of nine million Quebecers, have 7.5 million members. de jane as its own law they had so all that forced the french to create their own stuff and at the same time being submissive to the to the catholic church so when in the expo 67 they saw that there was something else that did exist and the catholic church were keeping them under under their governance they threw the church out and from 6784 or 86% population no, go to church twice a week, 68, 4%.

And since then... So from 84 to 4%, just so I got that correct, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They lost 80% of their people in churches. And since then, basically, with the independatist movement and the coming of the PQ in 76, politics has replaced the church in Quebec to tell people what to do.

and how to do it and take care of you. So much so that even I cannot believe sometimes. I still have one of my best friends. He owns a restaurant in Quebec, a very renowned restaurant. And like he's a Jewish, English-speaking guy. And he was telling me how much you love that the government has forced a restaurant to take deposit on critical people for reservation. So now in Quebec, when you reserve for a restaurant, they take your credit card number to make sure that you show up, and that's a provincial law.

I mean, I'm sorry, this is private business. This is, I mean, it would never cross my mind towards the government to, but this is how deep the government is in the Quebec society. And even like a Jewish, English-speaking businessman, I agreed with that in Quebec. So all that to say that Quebec has now achieved a level of secular operation that goes beyond what I were ever even imaging. So in Quebec, for instance, since the early 90s, I remember in the early 90s, they passed a lot that there was no more, it's illegal in Quebec to have a denomination school. so you cannot have a Christian school in Quebec it's illegal so much so that every September I remember like it was the show

after after Labor Day it was the police going in different acidic Jews shop to dismantle illegal schools and put handcuff these acidic Jews because they're one to school there and it's illegal because education has to be deprive of any religion intervention. And even when the Quebecers say that is Catholic, I look at the stats yesterday, and right

now there's, so 9 million people in Quebec, 4.9 million profess that they're Catholic. The Sunday morning attendance is 200,000 across the province out of that 4.9 million people professing being Catholic. Meanwhile, they've been controlling their immigration since 1990 by choosing a linguistic immigrant. So in Quebec, when you win Quebec, you have to speak French. And that opened the door. So the second language most spoken in the Arab world is French.

So that opened a door wide open to Muslim immigration in Quebec. Thirdly, Quebec look at France as their model. So Quebecers know more what happens in France than what happened in Toronto. They don't care what happened in Toronto. And in France, they know that they have a lot of problems with the Algerian mainly, because of the Algerian war, France kind of penitent to what they've done in Algeria let in a lot of Algerian in the country. And now they have a lot of problem with Islam.

in France. So when I think of Bill C9, yes, it could create a constitutional crisis, which is a bonus, but a real, real issue is to act against Islam in Quebec. So when I hear that it's not for religious matter that they do that, it is for religious matter. But they don't care. So So, Catholic, Quebecer, typical, they don't care whatever, you know, if it's Trump Catholic principle because they don't follow it. They don't know.

When I was young, was at least going to the midnight mass, no? Well, they don't do that anymore. They, you know, the church are monument. Most of Quebec church, I went to Quebec, like in November, to help out my mom on a belt, and there's that beautiful church in the town where she's built

when she's building her house. No, Cadarral, St. Antoine, and Grambi. And the church is now a community center. Because most church were, most church in Quebec were built in stone because Quebec, French, Canadians were poor. So that was the only place that, the only thing that they can have nice in their life is going to that nice church. So they invest a lot.

The community invests a lot in their church. So most church has been built in the 19th century. in gray stone, very ornamental, because it was the only nice place they could go. It was their treat to go to that nice church. And the average church were built for 1,500 to 2,000 people. So their big, nice church. Well, now, Cathedral St. Atoine and Granby, I've heard that there's about 30 people gathering there on Sunday morning in that 1,500 capacity church.

so all these churches has been converted in something else and they are super expensive to maintain so so when when uh when a francois lego or when a blanchette tells you i'm catholic yeah by name but it doesn't care what what catholic religions say on any subject they don't care

they don't care what no like so and they rather put limitation on everybody it's a bit, the, it's a bit, the context is like, I don't want you to have that liberty, and I don't care if I lose mine to get there. How many Muslims are in Quebec? Well, right now, the percentage is at 5.8% of the population. The problem with the Muslim is that,

so when you look at the, again, the cultural and religious demographic, so 4.9 million Catholic, 200,000, goes to church okay the 5.9% Muslim I think there are like so so 800,000 Muslim but 400,000 goes to church yeah they're there and and then you look at the clientele out of the 200,000 that goes to church the average age of the attendance of a Quebec church is 67 years old. When you look at the mosque the average age is 35. So you have you have roughly the same number of mosque attendees in the province as you have of Catholic attendees that are all going to be dead in 10 years anyway. Vesper must know we're talking Quebec. He's calling me right now.

So shout out to you, Vesper. I'm not answering because we're live. So you go back to this then. You're looking at it and you're going, well, I mean, the Catholics don't care because they're not going anyways. And of the ones that are going, they're going, well, even if it infringed us we want to infringe you that's correct so so the big the big move i believe with c9 is to be able to act against Islam in Quebec because most Quebecers see that as a threat and not by racism by principle because Islam is a threat I don't disagree like you know the jihad is a political movement we talk about this is one of the failings of Canada which is that the idea that you can have these competing world views, supposedly all existing together harmoniously, is garbage, because World View 1 does not permit World View 2 to exist at the same time in the same location and sphere as it exists. So with Islam, you have the doctrine that a woman shows her hair, you know, there are problems with that, or women vote, there are issues with that, or a man professes,

that Jesus Christ is his Savior. There are problems with that. And the idea then that the Islamic worldview and these other worldviews that say yes, actually women ought to be able to vote, and we believe in everyone going to school and blah, blah, blah, all that jazz, the idea that those two doctrines will coexist mutually

in sort of companionship is nonsense. One worldview will reign supreme. Islam is particularly good at moving into countries and then conquering power very quickly. And when they have power, they will not allow those other world views that were tolerant of them to exist. So Ben's exactly right.

Yeah. So when you come back to Bill C9 then. Yes. They don't talk about the Quran. They don't talk about Muslim. They talk about Christianity. I mean, it was Mark Miller who got up there and pointed to the Bible

and some of the passages from it. Tanner probably knows them off. That was egregious, wasn't it? But do they do that to fire up the population so that they doesn't, but I don't know. Or they just, they don't care. And it's war on Christianity and that's it. Because if Quebec is against Islam, that's not what gets told to the population. Well, you can't because it cannot be racism.

You cannot tell that you're fighting against Islam. But you look at all the laws that Quebec has been enshrined in their legislature in the past six years pertaining to, freedom of religion or absence of it's all all targeted to all geared towards because now now now they pass a lot that you cannot pray in public space as well you were going to a freaking Costco in montreal and and there were people in the in the alley of no yes just praying on the floor right there like no what no this is not accepted this is not what our society deem acceptable so then they pass a law saying okay again they didn't don't care for themselves because they don't do it. It doesn't affect them. And because they

professed our Catholic, well, that gives them the cover to do what Islam, the same thing as Islam does, basically, who's hide behind tolerance and origin of love when it's not at all. So they are serving the same medicine that Islam is serving to them through policies. And this is the root of Bill C-9 and that point there. Because they say, you know what? You want to choke me? Well, I'll choke you before you choke me. It's interesting because on this side, once again,

if it would just be in a conversation with Féthene, you know, would any of the audience understand any of these points? Right? It's heard that brings up. It's the block. I'm like, wait a second, why does the block want to? Now, I think you're giving a pretty decent picture. your Vesper. Sorry, I didn't have your phone call. But I mean, with Vesper and you, you're giving a good

insight into why Quebec is doing this. Yeah. And I do understand the position of Vesper is saying it cannot be religion because these guys profess to be Catholic. And Vesper is an immigrant from a country that fought as a civil war between Islam and Catholics. So for him, it's unconceivable that you profess to be Catholic and not support the values. But this is exactly what Quebec is. They profess to be Catholic and they don't support their values. They support their values. I mean, I have a group that I used to church with before and we organized a bunch of events and they organize them. I won't know. Anyway, and they were organizing a week of prayer in Quebec City. Okay. And they rented the Padre de Congress, the Quebec. So the Congress.

basically event center but that event center is managed by the provincial government and when they rented a full week of that event center and when the premier of quebec francois de go heard that there was a christian organization renting the and it's just beside the parliament it's next door okay so when he heard that they were coming for a week and that organization was against uh against abortion He canceled the event. He pulled the plug. And himself, the Premier, just pull the plug on it. And then his minister of the status of woman said,

and he said, we won't let any hate group rent anything. They were not any group. They were evangelical church. But if you don't agree, he said, he basically said it's not, anti-abortion is not within, doesn't fit with Quebec values. We are pro-choice. And again, we can tie that to the other conversation. Very interesting that you had with Bruce Party and Killeen about common good.

Well, Quebec never speaks about common good. They speak about social choices. Common good doesn't exist in Quebec. We know that it doesn't exist. I think it's a false debate common good, mainly on the political. level. So Quebec, in the language, in our language, when we speak about taking choice

for a society, we never speak that we're doing that for the common good. We make societal choices. So we choose as a society to make these choices. So there's no objective right or wrong in the Quebec political

understanding. Is that true? Yeah, I see. That's true. So in Quebec, you do choice. Not for the better good. You do choice for to accomplish your social goals. Yeah, I see. Your visions. What do you want your society to reflect?

So Quebec are welcoming of everybody. So that's why you cannot take a position in Thai Islam because you're welcoming of everybody. Right. As long as you speak French. In Quebec, you're, you're, you're okay to operate any business as long as your business name is in French. you're okay, I have no problem you speaking English in your house,

but you won't put your sign in English on the front because we're protecting the language. And we're protecting language. Why? Because we are 6 million of French within the sea of 400 million of English surrounding us. And when you look at that data from Vermont, from New Hampshire, because there was a lot of French speaking. So in 1929 at the big crisis, a lot of Quebecer, French-Canadian moved down to New Hampshire. Vermont and connect ticket to work

and there a lot stayed there in New England and I remember from a living memory like when I was young there was a lot of French people in Vermont and the New Hampshire well there's no more now like on a lifetime French disappeared

from this community I mean I mean you're meaning they just adopted American values yeah we know that if there's no laws protecting a language that language won't be protected. You will adopt the language of the most.

And this is why Quebec is so adamant in protecting its language. Because they don't want to lose it. They don't want to lose it. And they know that if they let everybody do whatever they want, everybody would go to English. Well, everybody would go to English. The way easier. So the result right now, and it's even declining.

So when I left Quebec in 2008, 76% of Quebecer were French-speaking only. right now i look at the stats yesterday it's still 52% of the quebecuer that french speaking only so french speaking only they don't read english they don't speak english they have no notion of english zero you can speak english to them is the same as speaking chinese to them exactly the same 52% of the population in quebec is like that right now so they could give two rats what anyone thinks about what they're doing. Yeah.

When you think about it, right? What is the rest of Canada arguing in? Who cares? They don't know. They don't know. They don't know. And it goes both ways. So they can put together these laws that are absolutely absurd and totally like extreme, you know, with our Western values.

But who to criticize? There's not a single journalist and, you know, 100 kilometers past the border that can read whatever they write. because they're right in French so there's way more communion with France than with the rest of Canada and this is where this is where

the the orientation goes like Paris for a French Canadian it's like the headquarters it's like it's the flagship it's the largest Paris is the largest French speaking city in the world and probably the most beautiful in fairness if you're in Alberta

what's the headquarters probably Donald Trump would that be fairness I don't mean to say that everyone aligns with, but it's a, maybe not Donald Trump, American values. Yeah, American, yeah, I would say, Alberta, yeah, resonates deeper with that, Texas, Florida, that type of thing than they do with the eastern part of Canada. So as much as it might be difficult to hear or maybe confusing to hear that a province headquarters be a foreign country, it's like, well, actually, they just relate to France. Yeah. Mainly because of language and culture and everything. Even out here in the West, I don't know.

We don't really, I don't know. Do you look over at Ottawa and go, oh, yeah, that makes a ton of sense? Yeah, I don't think they look at us and say the same thing either. Right. It's like we're just two totally different worlds. Well, I mean, they got Quebec sitting on their, on their border and it's two different worlds. And it's two different worlds. Yeah.

So this is, so would you say that a lot of what Quebec is today and what, what it practices, what it preaches, etc. Does that stem all the way back to like the French Revolution? Absolutely. Yeah, because I'm hearing all of this secular stuff. And I'm like, this is just really the Enlightenment in the modern day. It's the model. Yeah.

And the green light to implement that model was given by Shell de Gold. So Shell de Gaulle was the president of France. But before that, he was a hero of the Second World War. He's the one that built a resistance in France. And he became the president of France after the war. he's the one that hung all the government that that that that that that that that the government the vichy under under hitler yeah so the president the french president under hitler and all of his cabinet were all hung after by by by the goal yeah after the war and then and then became the president

the president of france and the goal visited montreal in 1966 during all these tumult and all that and and and he he took he made a speech um uh make a speech from the montreal yeah city hall balcony in front of 200,000 French-Canadian there during the most like that there was the student revolution in France

so their street were on fire and then Montreal Street were on fire because Trudeau was just elected and it was starting to push on federalism and all that and the goal comes in the midst of that and say,

Vive the Quebec Leibble. So basically I'm sure supporting free Quebec. And he finished his speech with that. Vive the Quebec, live! And that totally, like, exploded. Like, that was like, like,

like an atomic bomb in the Quebec society, saying, okay, we have, we have the support of France. I think this is fascinating. Well, it is. Well, I think it's fascinating, in part because I've had to do a lot of study on the French Revolution lately. If only because of, if only because of even the theological implications of that, of that entire event, you know, where man basically said, the French basically said, I am the ultimate source of reason. Reason is ultimate.

And there's no need for God. There's no need for objective values. We'll just make societal choices. And we'll create a world that is superior to what came before it. That's right. And then you see the consequences of that. You know, enlightenment's the wrong word. There's nothing enlightening about it.

But anyway, you see the consequences of the enlightenment and you watch the French Revolution play out and see how much blood there was. And then you see even today just the darkness that envelops that worldview. So I think this is fascinating because for me this clarifies so much of even the, it seems to be like an impassable chasm

between the West and Quebec in Canada in particular, but if you have that fundamental disagreement of one side at least officially says that we have objective value, the supremacy of God and so on, and the other side says no, actually reason and secularism is ultimate, there is

no, you cannot stitch those two together. One side has to capitulate to the other in order to live in a sort of communion. And this is why my position for Albertans, my dream for Alberta, I have a dream for

Alberta, of using the Quebec method to obtain what we need here. And to link with Quebec, because this is where we meet. So let them be, so I cannot fathom how much Alberta wants to be friends with Quebecers. I know, like, when I moved here, no, I had difficulty from the employees. I brought a bunch of Quebecers here, and I will never, ever hire a Quebecer in Alberta ever again. It's done, like that bunch of, I don't like, I don't like Quebecers. I don't like the way they think. I don't want the way they act.

I don't want the way they do. And for me, I will never, they're just paying the butt. I will never hire a Frenchman. So to work in Alberta. So all that to say that, that why don't you, let them be what they want to be? as a society, let them build a society the way they want, let's build our society the way we want, and let's meet where it makes sense, defense, passport, international agreement. No, like, we can have a small, small structure at the end, just to bridge our difference

with other countries. But beside that, like, let them do what they want, and let do what we want. so that that's my position but and i believe that we're missing an opportunity just to keep on um no i will use twos because you say it no eff in quebec no so so i i believe the wrong the wrong position to have because they hear that twos it's wrong position to have ben trudeau said it here wrong position because they can be our best ally to even even though the federal government. Even though, yes, to shift the federal government, even though our worldview doesn't align.

Yes. And because our worldview doesn't align, because we won't find any common ground. Forget that. There's a reason there's only two lanes that connect Dreda in Ontario for the rest of the country. You live there.

Like, there's an accident that I weigh and there's nothing happens in Canada anymore. The country is cut in half. So let's just do it. just that that put together circumstances that will that will create a shaken at the federal level that they will have no choice but to sit at the table and then it's them who will ask us to sit at table not us asking them and you remember who pays the bill and this is where it starts and people always not like I don't know a single Quebecer even even

very intellectual guys that I know in Quebec that know or care about the 30 billion giving in equalization it's a non-issue in Quebec that would rather be independent they'd receive that money and Tuesday would say well then have it yeah but exactly so so let's do it together

like if Albertans join Quebec forces to work together and push on the government. And push on the feds. Well, isn't that what's happening right now in weird ways? Kind of. Well, the problem is that Quebec has a wit politically that Alberta has to learn. So it's a bit like if you're starting boxing and you say, you ask, you ask, you say my, you hire Mike Tyson and say, I will help you.

But it's your first day boxing. Like, good luck. You're not helping him. it's him to help you you think uh quebec is mike tyson oh yeah absolutely like quebec they are the champion of of playing the westminster system like nobody play the westminster system like quebec does they they have their way they have their width they have their principal they have their they're in politics in quebec and like again i've been in committee and commissions and all that and and and the phrase can we do that is never how

in Quebec. Never, never even thought of. You just do it, and if they're not happy, sue us. And this is where we need to go. If you really want to change stuff, this is the attitude you need to have. Like here in Alberta, I believe that one way out and would be, why don't we look at annexing Northwest Territory? There's only 30,000 people living there. And stop bugging with BC. and of Montana. Let's just bring our pipeline up north. There's the northwest passage that is becoming the next Panama Channel that is dispute between Denmark at one end and the U.S. at the other end,

and it's right in the middle of our country. The problem we have in this country is that when we look at the map, we look at it on a globe. So the more you go north, the shorter it looks. But when you look at the real distance, no, Canada is 5,200 kilometers wide. and it's 5,200 kilometers high to the farthest point. And the northwest passage is right in the middle of the country. So when the American tell me, no, oh, let us deal with the Northwesternet, no, no, no,

it's like if they were building a channel between New York and San Francisco, and you say, okay, we'll deal with that for you. No, it's right in the middle of our country. But we have nobody living there. So as long as you have nobody living there, you can prove your surveillance. You can't put so I believe it's imperative that we find new ways of approaching the problem. So you're saying Alberta should go hey Northwest Territories we're annexing you yeah absolutely you're ours. Northwest Territory is Alberta build a a railway yeah and a pipeline

right there and start building the city and call it a day that's right and start building ports along there because these ports are the secret to make the Northwest passage functional right now there it's not functional because there's nothing there along there and then let's bring a pipeline there, let's bring everything there, and then we control our stuff. What do you think of that, Tanner? I think it's so fascinating how Ben's right with the government, where you see so often so many politicians who say, oh, no, we can't do that, you know, policy X, Y, Z, prohibits us from doing such a thing. And this continues on for, well, lots of years, decades and decades and

decades and then a politician maybe shows up who says no like Trump's a good example I'm going to do it and then he does it and you go wait a second you know if someone was in power all those years ago they could have done it too and the answer is yeah it's just that so many people in power are scared of losing their jobs or they're scared of the repercussions of doing what's right or what might have you that they look for any excuse possible to not do anything but just keep the keep the status quo where it is keep the government gridlocked as it is. Maybe it gets a bit bigger, whatever. What is nice is when a guy or a woman walks into government

and says, you know, I have a palette of policies I need to pass, and they're good ones that say, and we're going to do it. And you shake things up a little bit. And the consequences are often, not always, but if the leader's good, the consequences are positive. Like, again, like Churchill's a good example where you have before World War II, you had all those British politicians who said, well, you know, Hitler's advancing, but what can we do about it? You know, we'll appease and appease and appease and we're just

handcuffed, you know, with treaties and all this jazz. And Churchill, meanwhile, from his room, right, from his house, he was writing paper after paper after paper and notes saying, try this, do this, do that, do that, it's a mistake. And it isn't until, to be honest, it's too late that Churchill comes to the position and then you realize there's a man who just does what needs to be done. So it would be nice in our Western governments, yeah, to have more politicians who just do what has to be done. If only because at least it would let us know what their real intentions are. Sometimes I get so sick and tired of, you know, looking at this big behemoth government. And you don't really know where anybody stands because no one really makes a move. They just kind

of foretoe the line. Aren't you bored of that? Aren't you tired of that? You know, at least make a move so we can tell what you're really about, a big move. I think that would be far superior to what we have now. And when you look at what Quebec does and a lot of anti-constitutional thing that they do, other words don't move. They don't do anything.

I mean, I saw I saw X stuff, whatever, a tweet of a minister going to get royal assent in front of our lieutenant governor. How ridiculous is that? I mean, I'm sorry, but the governor,

the lieutenant governor so quebec this is the position quebec took three years ago they say you know what royal assent like we don't want we don't want that one is voted in the ledge it's the ledge so they they they by law quebec law revert the role of the lieutenant governor yeah to a clerk so you're there to take what you decide and and file it another one yeah that's your role from now on and now they're going a step further when they want to defund the lieutenant governor they're saying the feds if you want to keep a little governor here okay no use it they know what they've done when they the day they they they they put that law they they they put a four-sell sign in

front of the lieutenant governor's house saying say we want our money back yeah like if i want the lieutenant governor here they'll pay for it yeah so and this is what we need yeah this is the type of because we see that when they do that nothing happens so they're keep on doing it but if iowa start having like quebec does it albera does it saskatchewan does it whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa let's sit and see what we're doing right now okay and then you're going you're sitting in in a strong position because it's otherwise asked you to sit with them not the opposite and it shouldn't be the opposite because when you look at the Kensington Constitution with the rights of the provinces, we should tell other

what to do. It shouldn't go both ways. And sometimes I hear some stuff like so crazy stuff. Like I was hearing somebody talking against the creation of a provincial police. Oh, well, the RCMP is way cheaper because they're subsidized. They're subsidized with our own freaking money. Like, do you hear yourself? Like, we subsidize the RCP in Quebec.

They're not subsidizing the RCNP in Alberta. Like, so anyway, so it's that shift. Could you, this annexing of Northwest Territories. Is there something in the Canadian Constitution that you're allowed, you can just do that? Well, so, so I don't know to which extent I can speak about it because I'm not the one that came with the idea, by the way. It's a, it's an MLA that you know that came with the idea.

He's taught, yes, I think he's even talked on the show about it. Maybe not. I won't say his name because I'm like, maybe he didn't. Yeah, exactly. No, no, but he did. And he sent me documents and all that. And he had, in the position that he is in the government, he was able to commission some studies about that.

And he has a pathway or roadway to do it. And when you look at it, no, like the entire Yukon, Not Restory and Nunavut, all together, it's 75,000 people. 75,000. It's smaller than red deer. like so the government right now the feds pays five billion for these two territories every year that's a lot of money per capita but if you if we go see them and we give them a bit more goodies than other what can and a bit more mainly autonomy as well because right now they're they're

handcuffed by otherwa because they're territories they do so if we bring them a bunch of structure we have. No, no, no, don't worry. We're going to bring, we're going to bring our energy regulators, no, to help regulate your energy. So don't, don't deal with other way anymore for that. We're going to bring our pipelines, our industry, or guys that are used to drill, or guys that know, like, and we're going to invest, no, like, and here's a bonus. Here's an entry bonus, no. It's a cheap solution. And I think what you're saying, and I think what you're saying is a solution that is within the structure of the country

as it sits right now. Absolutely. We have the right to do it and we can do it and it's doable. As long as they agree, we can't go forward. And wouldn't that be so? You imagine the head's popping off Saturday Tuesday morning after

Alberta annexes and Northwest Territories. I could just see everybody losing their collective top. Yeah. But then it was of so many problems. because then that would give our province and let's bring Saskatchewan with us and then that will bring our provinces access to open the sea to the north stop looking to the west or to the south like this is our territory our stuff

our railways and our infrastructures and yeah so you're you know i'm shifting off bill c9 because i think you're not so what you heard from vesper if i guess we'll stick on c9 for a couple of seconds. If you listen to what Bester said, you're like, you know what? That's actually a pretty good synopsis of what's happening. He missed some historical context, but you've given us. And you go, they're going to push for Bill C-9

because of what's happening in their province. And they're trying to protect, sorry. Forget what you called it. Societal good, but... They're social construct. The way the image and the vision they gave from Quebec. So they see Islam as a threat. And so now they're putting laws in place

to make sure that they can't practice their religion out in the open and to add into Vespers, what's going to happen? They're going to start leaving because... Perfect. And so now, Quebec. Now, do you think that's in the end goal of Vesper says they want independence, separation,

they want out, and that's part of it? Well, that's the historical context that Vesper missed because he's kind of new to the province, well, relatively, no like... But this is the part of it. missed is that the organization, no, the Block Quebecois never changes mission. The mission of Black Quebecois is separation of Quebec from Ottawa since its inception 1990. So the Parts Quebecois, no, because there's a lot of stuff that Vesper with his brain

discovered and say, aha, no, this is what they're doing, which is, yeah, of course, this is what they're doing, because this is what they've been doing for 40 years, no? So that's their mission. like point number one of the So when I hear the The leader The English leaders debate For the prime for the prime minister

Yeah And forgive me What's his name? The guy who's on the shit Thank you You guys I don't really care Because I don't want to be prime minister Everybody in Quebec is like

I mean they're not Once again He's not saying it in French But regardless They'd be applauding that going Yeah we don't want to be here Well it's just like of course Of course

He doesn't want to be prime minister Never want to be prime minister You know, like, it's kind of a, I see it as a missed opportunity that that notion was not understood by Western Canada in the 90s, early 90s. Because I believe that the true change could have come with a joint exercise between the reform and the block. I believe that they... Yeah, like the reform should have been talking to the block way back when and been like... exactly we could really change this country that's correct and somehow that didn't happen and the problem is that president manning was a federalist like daniel smith they they have that pinkish no

glasses view of canada or we're canadian and then love yeah but when i listen to this conversation i don't know about tanner tanner can give me his two thoughts when you listen as you go we don't see the world the same way we don't see can't see can't work together i mean there's lots of different countries where you go like yeah we don't want to do it like you but i mean to go to war with you over everyone who disagrees with your way you see the world that'd be well you'd be in you'd be in forever wars right so here in canada you go we should work together to dismantle what ottawa has so that we could all be live what we want to live exactly and and this is the real future and then when when you but if you're a federalist like preston manning you would go into those conversations go

Quebec is I am sorry Preston you've been on the show before but you could probably go in there I have no idea if these happen or not but I assume you would talk to the block and be like yeah we can't work with those guys they want to dismantle our country yet the reform was all over pulling back things for the West in fact the only one we had conversations during the referendum in Quebec in 95 and I know because I cash some checks which is illegal by the way but I don't care at this Mike. It's, it's, it's, what was the wild rose at the time. The wild rose from Alberta? There was a wild rose organization in Alberta. I don't remember all the details. I remember they were named a while. I don't know if there were a really form or I don't know. I don't

remember. I remember receiving checks and envelope from the wild rose during the referendum in Quebec to support the separation of Quebec. Man, Quebec is, uh, Quebec two's is given fist pumps right now to the wild rose. Because if he could give a check and see, Quebec go, he would. He'd be like, yeah, all the power to it. Let's do it. Of course. But the wild rose back then? It was a wild rose something. It was a Wild Rose Foundation. Sure. Sure. So in Quebec, one of the role that I, that I was doing, I was very, I was known for that that in political party. That's why I worked for all of them was to manage money that that needs to be managed differently. I will say it that way, no? So,

I received donations from all over Canada, but I remember these checks flowing from Alberta that I remember because I was shocked. I said, what? Albertan sent us checks, like, what? But do you think if you were about getting out of Confederation, you would support anyone trying to do it because it would renegotiate everything?

Yeah, exactly. And only that, but those who took time to read the freaking question that was made in French, those who took time to read it saw that what the question was asking is a new deal of other one first so if I fast forward to today again

I go Bill C9 is a scary piece of legislature in my opinion but what Quebec is trying to do makes sense then and they're using the tools they have

and all of Canada is fighting them on it. Yeah. I think. Which I don't care because they, no Bill C-9 doesn't ring a bell in Quebec, nowhere. Nobody knows about it. No, nobody cares about what the block does another one in Quebec. Nobody, like zero. Zero attention.

Right now, the big thing, the big thing, Quebec, I spoke to my mom on my way here, and she's quite politicized as well. And right now, the big thing running right now is the, well, Well, Pablo Rodriguez, he resigned after buying his way in. And now the new candidate for the Liberal Party is a next pharmacist. It was the president of the Chamber of Commerce of Quebec. His name is Miliard, which translated in English by billions. This is what Miliad means.

But anyway, his family is Miliad. And he will probably be the next leader of the provincial party in Quebec. liberal and again the the the the eternal underlayment of federalist separatists is just rising up because now now you will have a Plemondon from the PQ with a guy that that that that is not like like no Pablo Rodriguez should should change the name for Pablo Escobar but whatever so so so whatever raise there will recreate that dynamic because there has been like like a dynamic between the Federis and the and the separatists in Quebec that that fueled the conversation and and I believe there's a rebirth of that right now in Quebec and so it's what

we're with which as Albertan wanted more sovereignty for Alberta we should take advantage of and not and not despise so on bill C9 before we move on to Alberta uh referendum and things like that that really pull it back in the realm because i got you two sitting here anyways should bill c9 scare everyone as much as what they've been ramping it up as well i don't know if it should if it's care more than all the others right now there does bill i receive a i receive a text from somebody there a day who did the dissertation of everything that is stable right now uh another one there's a bunch of scary stuff not only in c9 but but it like something like six, seven bills that totally like like will stifle or our freedom of expression and all that.

So so C9 is part of that of that of that package of no like like the big beautiful bill in the States. Now we have the big ugly bill in Canada, you know, that that have all these these stuff that will totally, totally bring us closer to dystopia. and which is good for Albertus Serenity and for Quebec sovereignty There's a book in the Bible, 2nd Timothy It's Paul's last book he writes Before he goes to die And

Nero had been You know instituted emperor In the empire And as a consequence of that Of course Christians were being persecuted severely And they were scared including Timothy. Timothy stops preaching actually because he's, well, he's being timid. He doesn't want to cause a fuss, certainly not for himself or for other Christians.

So Paul from jail writes him a letter. And the essence of that letter is it doesn't matter what laws Nero's passed. It doesn't matter what Nero's doing to you as a Christian. You have an obligation to preach. You have been imbued with a duty to preach. So you better discharge that task and you better go and preach. That's the essence of the letter. And I think the same is true for us here in Canada. You know, C-9, I don't think. It does have consequences, like those other bills for Christians and others who speak the truth. But our task and our duty to proclaim what's true doesn't change.

It certainly isn't governed by whether or not government allows us to speak the truth or not. I would very much prefer that we not be persecuted for preaching Christianity, but that there might be persecution which comes as a consequence of preaching Christian, isn't reason to stop preaching Christianity and like like Ben said you know the Churchillian quote never let a good crisis go to waste I don't know what the Almighty's plan is and all of this but we shall find out so and we do have to remember that the the conduct of justice is privy to the provinces so whatever whatever other will pass it's for us to apply or not these laws

I mean I mean Quebec got got so in Quebec when you see some somebody on the civil side you're you're under the Napoleon code so so so so all the all the civic civil lawsuit Quebec are under the code of Napoleon that he put together in 1806 that that's that's the core of law that that that conduct all civil lawsuits in Quebec and and not a common law well and so so so so so so so so every province have can do that we can we can have our core so the criminal law is is is is is is stated by by by by our law the way the way it's it's it's it's provincial jurisdiction and then and then on the civil side of lawsuit probably province have the right like quebec did

like Quebec does, to have their own code, to say, no, we won't, we won't do like the rest. This is what, this is how we deal with, with the civil matters in this province, is they, we should have a group of Albertans studying Quebec. Don't you think, just to see how and what they've done. So as a province, you can mimic it in your own way. Yeah, exactly. Your own way, own value, because this is what Quebec does. Yeah, you don't have to bring across their, their value.

you bring across their strategies exactly you adapt what they do with Albertan values but with the same intentionality the same but for that you need you need a vision yes we need to cast a vision we need we need to say we need to yeah you need to build out where do you actually want to go yeah exactly then your population will march right along well heck it'll push it along yeah isn't that what's happening with it with an independence referendum yeah well and that's so so shifting back to the friend I'm here in Alberta there's two reasons that I that I'm sure it will fail okay two reasons so we just had the high of Chris Scott being on it's going it's inevitable and people loved it

it's going to happen Ben Trudeau at the hour mark says it's going to fail so happy Christmas Eve to everybody listen to this all right by the way a very good friend with Chris hey we we we spend a lot of time together and he became a very good friend among the years. And he knows my position. I know his. And it's funny because we keep on talking. That's the other thing. But that's what you want to do. Just because you don't agree with Ben saying it or Chris, for that matter. Doesn't mean you stop talking. No, that's when you do talk. So two factors, let's say at least two, maybe more, why I believe a referendum will fail in 2026 in Alberta. So the first,

First is it's only on economic matters. And a separation goes beyond the economics. It goes to cultural identity. It goes to you call yourself a Canadian. Well, now you have no more right to call yourself a Canadian. No, I just, no, I joked with you on text. I crossed a border to come here today, no. So that's the reality of things.

No, but no, like put it in the right context. Well, I think from a hockey background, The thing that I was thinking about, this is about a month ago, folks. It's like, huh, do I, will we have Team Alberta in the Olympics? Is that a thing? Sure. Do we got enough good hockey players to put in there?

I know that's a silly thing to bring up. But when I look at Canada over my lifetime, where's the most Canadian moments when Canada is winning an Olympic gold medal in hockey? Full stop. That's true. Yeah, and this one can agree even for, back no but like it's across the country across the country yeah everybody stops that they're

doing to go watch sydney crosbie or in the four nations cup it was connor macdavid but i mean right what when are when is canada most patriotic when the canadian men's olympic hockey team is playing it's a sad or it's just a true statement yeah so so reason number one only economic and that's a mistake um if you want to convince somebody to leave a country it has to be bigger than the economics. And the other problem with that with the economics argument in Alberta is that despite being the one that pays the most

that makes this country run, which is a fact, despite that. I mean, I can still see 24 years old with a brand new house. They're Denali truck with $3,000 of modification on it and there are two quads on the back with their RV pulling in the back. And so why would,

Like, think with me. I have all that. I'm 25 years old because I live in the province. That doesn't exist, by the way, elsewhere in the world for young Albertans. No, young Albertians don't know that it doesn't, but it doesn't. Okay? So that alone, when you go behind a little curtain to yes or no, and say, would I risk, what I risk?

My trader, my Denelli, my truck, my quads, and not. all that for a country and which country i don't know what they want to do after no and these are the two main reason that this referendum will fail because we're too comfortable despite being the most we're still the richest after paying everything was still the richest the less taxed the highest salaries the most toys the most opportunities the most like in the country so why why why would i rocked the boat what do you think tanner yeah i mean you've been out speaking everybody which has been a lot of fun well i to bank off ben's point what nation in history um has ever has ever uh successfully achieved so momentous a movement like this you know even even completely restructuring the political and

geopolitical landscape of a particular place based purely on economic issues. Like the original answer would go, well, let's go to America. They were mad over tea, you know, tax, not really. Like that was part of it, but their issues stemmed far deeper than that, which was fundamentally representation or taxation, excuse me, without representation. They thought the foundational governance system of the British Empire, at least as far as they were concerned in America, was faulty. it wasn't just that they were taxed at you know three percent it like that that angered him but their

concerns actually went deeper than just economics they were concerned about the moral structure of the government of the king of the political structure of that entire empire and the way it was governing the colonies and so on i would agree with ben that if you want to have a movement like this which is so massive be successful it needs to appeal to something deeper than economics, as important as economics is. Michael Wagner, I think, has written about this in his books. I'm almost positive. He talks about how, you know, economics is funny because it ebbs and flows. You know, some years of markets are good. Everything's great. Some years of markets are bad. Oh, they're terrible. Let's get out of here. So Albertans are like that. Where we go,

if the markets are good, we're comfortable. No problem. We're making money. Sure, whatever. Markets are bad, yeah. You know, you make some gestures to Ottawa and you say we want out. but those markets are so volatile that there's if that's your strategy there is no way at all to try and plan for um you know to plan for an adventure in this case independence which will take a long period of time you have to continually generate support it can't be like this or else you'll never have any stability any traction to sustain growth for a long period of time don't you think if you were to fast forward 30 years let's say in 2026 he had a success referendum and let's just wave a wand and you have the country of Alberta there will be a group of

gentlemen sitting around going you remember Alberta when they did it it wasn't just about the money there was underlying things being attacked and you look at the values of what's being pushed from Ottawa yes and they don't represent us so isn't that already there well yes or no it's going to be there probably after the next session at this portion no partially but but I believe it needs to be construct in a way that people understand it. So there's a big work to be done in the way we present things and the knowledge of the population about these things. You know what? I was looking at Quebec again because there's only, because it's a microcosm of French speaking, there's only like four TV stations and people just still listen to TV because there's nothing

else available. They go down the internet in French because they're nothing else available. They They cannot read all the Internet in English. So it calls for a very tight control of the narrative in the province. So you have kind of a population that all think the same because the narrative is controlled by a very small group of people that push the narrative the way it needs to be pushed. And they have a lot of funding. I was looking, so right now in Quebec, the money spent on cultural stuff.

so TV shows and that's the other thing in Quebec they don't translate things like I remember there's a show like they bought the right of a popular show

in the CSI I believe no the show yeah well so they they buy the show CSI and they don't translate it they rerun it

with Quebec actors Quebec stuff they rerun it they refilm it okay that's how they do in Quebec so the budget last year just on cultural elements in the province

2.8 billion were spent just for cultural production in Quebec. Movies, songs, TV shows, 40% of the budget of CBC is for French. Can you imagine if Alberta spent 2 billion on culture? Yeah. All of a sudden you've got a check in the mail

from the government. You're an Alberta podcaster. Yes, I am. Yeah. You better believe it. Here's 1.2 million continue what you're doing. I don't know if that's how it goes. But yes, Sean, that's a relative Quebec. This is relative Quebec. So all production, Quebec, podcast, TV, song, and all that. As soon as you're in the right circles,

they usually will fund half of your operations. And so then what would you do if you got that check? I mean, if it was me, I'd push Alberta content, you know. Well, no, you become very pro. Totally. It's no different. Chris Sims says all journalists should be. independent right and it's the federal government yeah that gives out the subsidy yeah totally and so what

happens we see it with with the cbc and others yeah where they become you know maybe i'm not going to call out everything because they're paying our bills totally distorts the market yeah that's exactly that's exactly what happens you know if it was a true free market uh the journalists would know if they're doing a good job or not based on whether people were watching but now they don't really what do they give a rip whether they people watch or not their only task is to perform their service quote-unquote service in such a way that the subsidy continues to flow yes that's that's their that's their market driver not not demand not proper demand government demand you know government wants to do good but not proper demand you're exactly right and in that context you have phenomena like there's a tv show

named tumourne appell tomorrow appell it's a tv show that's been running since 2003 in quebec it's every Sunday night so in Quebec Sunday again the Sundays from the church has been replaced by TV okay and and tomorrow pal

it's a show that has an open schedule the show lasts anywhere between two and three hours okay and it's guests they gather guests around a table and they speak of all kinds of subjects okay and then all the guests

add up as the show progress and then they can add their comment on the other and they drink wine around and chat and know about your new book and this and that well Harper always refused to show up on Tumontapal.

Meanwhile, there's a guy named Jack Layton that was there every freaking week. You know what happened? At the federal election with Jack Layton when he was there at Tumontal every week? Well, they won majority seat in Quebec. The Quebec turned totally

from liberal to NDP. in one election because Tompontan Pal is watched by 3 million people every Sunday night he went to where the people were gee that's a shocker I mean it wasn't it this Pierre Pollyev who didn't go on Rogan because

he was worried about well I don't know his staff was worried about whether or not that would have backlash on you're like go where the people are you're moron you go on Rogan the most popular wildly successful podcast under the sun and he turned it down that's right and all

all the communication species Aaron Harper was, oh, this is just a variety show. It's not just a variety show. This is what Quebec think. Because they had that show on Sunday and so influential that after the show on Sunday in the newspaper during the week,

their article all week long on what was talking to that show. Two more successful versions of going where the people are. You look at Donald Trump. What did Donald Trump do? He went on some, in my opinion, that's a strange podcast,

but they probably looked at the numbers and when people watch this. He also showed up on Rogan. He also showed up on Tucker. Right? He showed up on a lot. I think he showed up on Sean Ryan, if memory serves me correct.

Actually, I know he did. Yeah. They went on a big media tour of unlikely, or if you're a person that watches, goes the likely spots. Yeah. One who did that closer to home in this province was Daniel Smith. Yeah, absolutely.

Daniel Smith did the podcast circuit. And now at the time, she caught a bunch of flack for being, for saying things on there and then them clipping it and whatever else for what happened she won the leadership

that she won again as a premier of a province and what was she doing she was going around to where the people were yeah that's right that's right

so that's a poor move on Harper's part I guess is what I'm like to me what is politics all about it's going where the people are absolutely because you need to get your voice out

so people know who you are yeah and that was the brilliance of Brian Maroney to know because when you look in the past like like 40 years it's always been liberal unless except 10 years of Maroney on eight years eight years no yeah eight years with moni and Harper another eight years with Harper and what the difference between the two I believe that Harper could have beaten Justin Trudeau if he would have understood Quebec

he never understood Quebec and all even is Quebecer council around him were all speaking English Quebecers immigrants so I'm sorry but

yeah that stuff always I always scratched my head about because it's like once again I just like

Bill C9 yeah that doesn't make any sense wait a second Quebec's pushing that why are they pushing that you know anyone from Quebec I make two phone calls

and have two guests come and all of a sudden you're like huh it's not that I fully understand like I get pieces I don't live in Quebec but you you start to understand why they're doing it yeah and why part of their province probably doesn't give two craps whether they get it through or not no exactly nobody it's it's not

appearing in a in a in a in a page column C9 in Quebec it's not it's a non-issue and over time as you stand up more for your rights and they don't do anything to you it would become less of a like we have to pay attention to us right Right? Well, we do what we want, and maybe they come and harass us. Maybe they don't. And if they don't, we just keep pushing forward, right? Like, I mean, you watch Quebec and some of the things that come out of there. It's, honestly, it's almost admirable from an Alberta's point of view, because wouldn't we want our, don't we applaud Daniel Smith the most when she stands on stage at the UCPA jam and says, criminals, you go in a house, just saying, you're going to be shot. did you get a stand immediate standing over that yeah yes yeah isn't that signaling that's what we want here yeah absolutely and and and and that would never fly in Quebec not not not not in a thousand years just because as well no and and and sorry the the the criminal going in the house comment or what do you mean not flying oh the criminal going in a house comment like like guns in Quebec I mean it's like like

they've been a huge huge well since 1987 after the shooting at the police technique of these 13 guns they're against guns they're just against guns and and and and again as a block know what the block quebecua wears very very well his name the block it's a block no the quebec community the quebec people it's a block it's they they they think the same and they think the same because they have 2.8 no it's a 2.8 billion a year uh to drill down a message and a propaganda in everybody's mind for roughly like, what, 4.5 million, at least in the province that don't speak anything else in French. I think Ben's got a good point. Like, what's probably the most common argument that we hear against Alberta and Western independence?

And it's usually that I'm a Canadian first. I don't think there's much of an economic argument, to be frank. I don't think there's much of the Eastern governments love us. because they clearly don't, you know, to be frank. But when you talk to people who are nervous or concerned about the prospect of independence, they're almost invariably, their most immediate reply is, I'm a Canadian.

I was born here or I immigrated here to, you know, achieve a better life. My grandparents fought in the war or what might have you. And there is an appeal to sentiment, to try and justify continuing on in this present position. or on this present path that we've been following for how many decades now. And so when Ben talks about Quebec's mastery of propaganda in cultivating that sense of identity to maintain their position of, you know, Quebec that is totally unique and separate from the rest of Canada,

I think there's an element of heavy truth there for Alberta independence as well. yeah my to be honest like my generation i don't think quite recognizes the bond that that um our parents and stuff have with canada because we just don't have it you know Canada maybe as far as we're concerned hasn't given us what our parents thought it gave them right like inflation is higher for us it's much more difficult to buy a home now a lot of guys are struggling to find work um you know and it's just it's just a different it's a different era different age our group just even in itself isn't as tied to the idea of the nation as our fathers are. Well, think of in the last 10 years, you've had compelled speech, right?

They, them, all that. You've had that stuff going into the schools. You've had that start to go across the board in the sports and everything. And when Daniel Smith stands up and says, we're not doing this, then everybody piles on her. So if you're a younger generation, it's like, what is Canada doing? It doesn't even, yeah, should be applauding this woman

for standing up to the crowd. Instead, they're going to say this is in our values and I can see how anyone, oh, I don't know, I don't know what age group, but I could see being like,

this is really strange and Canada doesn't represent who I am anymore. That was a really stark, uh, tough realization for me. Yeah. As I was going along through the pie, I'm like,

what is happening here? Like, I feel like I'm the oddity, you know? Yeah. And that has been, been a Canadian value set that's made me feel that way,

which is really strange. Yeah, that's the kicker. And I think, so I think maybe what Ben's point is, you can correct me, but I think Ben's point is his contention is that a referendum in Alberta isn't winnable right now because not enough Albertans yet see them as Albertans. That's great. They still see themselves as. As Canadians. And even on the economic side, like when I graduated high school in 1989, I graduated

I spoke and and when I came on the on the on the on the on the market to work uh from 89 to 93 roughly there was a recession in Quebec yeah and and and the unemployment in the 18 25 year old when I went on the on the work workforce yeah was 35 percent yeah that was the unemployment rate of youth in Quebec wow at that time so then so then you build a project for a future of a province yeah and say you know what it's because of the fed that were stuck like that. You know, vote yes, and you'll get a job. Well, then, then I got a reason.

Then I got a future. Then I can see forward. So if you were looking at where Alberta sits right now, Ben, or Tanner, both you. And you were trying to give the population of Alberta a vision of where it could be and what it could be like, not that you would, oh, well, maybe you would change something, but what would you add to it then to be like, hey, we vote yes. and we get out of here. This is what it could be.

What I would put forward is take the four or five elements that makes Alberta so distinct. And probably Albertans don't see it. I see it because I decided to leave here and to move here. And what is very distinct is the entrepreneurship of Albertans. It's the common ground attachment to Albertans. Like, Albertans are practical, pragmatic people. no so so so we we need we need to highlight what is an adverton we need we need to create that avatar

of an adverton the most alberta man in the world well yeah well you know when i saw i'm like somebody's being very creative right there yes but but let's take the trait from this video what makes it different to the others and then and then with that we we have to shoot aspirations we we have to say imagine world where this is how we would manage this thing and imagine um no a world where a better control of his royalties and that makes us tax free totally tax free like monaco like i mean there's other models that in the world that has that are tax free right now that works like like camans allen i mean they're tax free they work because they tax the banking no well we can live taxed because we tax the oil but then we have to protect as well what comes with it otherwise we're

going to be flooded by people that just come for the tax reasons no so so and this is where it's important to know like in quebec when you want to live in quebec before if you come no not if you're canadian but if you come from another country as permanent residents or or ask well first you they will put you in a class for five days and in that class you learn about the quebec history what are in Quebec value and all that. And at the end of the class, they make you sign a contract, a social contract that you're going to respect these values. And not only that, but that you're going to learn French

and they're going to send your kids to French school. If you don't want to sign that contract, go to Ontario. We won't give you a driver's license. We won't give you a health card. We won't give you anything. Go to Ontario, go to New Brunswick, go somewhere else, but not here. And this is what we need to do here. We need to establish what our vision,

what is to be in Albertan? What is our aspiration as Albertan? Why am I here? Why did I move from Quebec to here? Because it's easier to make business because it's a bunch of creative people with real stuff. Like, Alberta developed like crazy machines

to drill the earth and to deal with the oil. So there's that practical creativity that exists in this province that makes us the best in the world with our resources. And we have to remember that Alberta, the Alberta oil, we need to change that vision of dirty oil. That's not true.

We have the most democratic oil in the planet. I never saw an oil industry making so many people rich. I mean, it's unusual. That's true compared to Venezuela and stuff. It's unusual. It's unusual to have so many rich people from that resources. Well, this is what we need to promote to be an aberthens to, and I believe, even compared to Texas, because Texas like Conoco, Co. Imperial Oil and all that, usually they keep ownership of everything

because they are there, here are just too far, no? They don't want to send people. So the all company here pays you five times what it would even cost them, but they don't have the problem of dealing a minus 40 with a head well that is frozen, no? So that's true. And that create a rich. environment money-wise, no? I mean, I live in Central Alberta. There's a lot of very rich farmers in Central Alberta, a lot of very rich oil people, because most of farmers, because they're farming in summer, they do oil in winter. And they can charge like crazy amount of money. I have a friend who lift tanks, oil tanks and all that. Well, like it's three days work,

he built like $200,000 to take care of an oil tank. There's no other industry that offers that, And this is the Alberta advantage. This is a real advantage because that guy that just make $200,000 in a week of work, it's hard work. Don't get me wrong. It makes it dirty. You're freezing your tail off.

Yeah, yeah. It's very hard work. But the rewards are amazing and can give you a lifestyle that is inexistent in the rest of the planet. If the APP is listening, you're saying start to highlight the Alberta advantage. I like this.

I like the strategy. I think Ben's strategy is if you want to win a referendum, you have to cultivate the Alberta identity. Yeah. And fashion or at least build off Alberta's identity to such a point that Albertans say I'm Albertan. I'm proud to be. I am exactly right.

You have to appeal to that identity. And so then now, if you were Ottawa and you didn't want Alberta to leave, what would you do? well as far as I'm concerned you dilute Alberta with as many Canadians that's right outside Alberta as possible to so that so that you could never cultivate an identity again and I'd probably argue that's been a strategy of just Ottawa just in general around Canada probably since its inception or close to it the idea is to dilute the nation so that the nation really never has any stand up and give when government tries to take more rights you know Quebec is

Quebec is an outlier Quebec is different but on the whole Canada's, we've always been told, it's just his multicultural nation with no core identity, right? That's Trudeau's famous quote. There's no, there's no national identity here. You're right. The most unified we ever are is when we're playing the Americans in a hockey game, right? Like, I don't remember the Summit series. I wasn't born then, and I wasn't born for the Canada Cup, but I've seen the highlights.

I do remember 2010. And of course, I remember. Or 2006, Salt Lake. Or 2006, or Four Nations. Like, that was the Four Nations Cup is one. that was probably the last time I felt really unified as a nation was a game of hockey. Mom was teaching a ladies Bible study and I remember walking in on my phone. I had it on my, it was just listening to it on sports, whatever it was because I couldn't

be at home. And like that's, that's, there's an identity, but then it's gone and we're back to way things were. So yeah, I think, I don't think Ben's wrong at all. If you want to have a successful referendum, you need to first cultivate an Alberta identity. Because as it stands, people in Alberta will. vote no or they might because they have a Canadian identity first and they would sooner identify with that heritage and they would with the Alberta heritage. I don't think he's wrong. And you just

look at history. Again, like go back to America. They were like they were Englishmen, but they were no longer Englishmen at the time of the revolution, right? They already had their own identity as colonies. They were they were just different. They were already separated. And that's true for Greece or Rome, whatever it might be. They all had their own identity. They that they sought to protect. Yeah. And they already made the entire of England dependent on tobacco. Yes.

That was bringing them enough revenue to be independent. Sure. The same with oil. Yeah. Sure. So now the trick is to find that identity and to push it. Yeah. And there's,

well, I don't think you need to find it. No, you're right. You need to define it. You need to define it. It's all sitting there. That's right. You need to talk about it. The best initiative that I saw right now is this I am,

I usually have my pen always on me. I am at Burton pen. that's great no because I am at Burton doesn't mean that you want to separate doesn't mean it's just I am at Burton well I tell you I tell you what the most interesting man in Alberta no the most Alberta man what what is it now yeah the most Alberta man in the world in the world sorry sorry I'm butchery whoever did that yes and I'm certain we know them right because I like see their videos like that's great yeah you tell me that isn't catching doesn't see millions of eyes like it does yeah and that is you know like that what is

in albertan oh that's easy to define but it needs to be defined yeah yeah and then you need to be pushing it more and more but then bring a step forward and we we need we need to to create that that that that teaching about being albertan and when when you come from from paraguay or from equator or from brazil or from uh russia and immigrate to alberta specifically we sit you around a table and say this is how it works there. Here's what you got to do. You got to run a Buffalo

to the UCPAGM. Okay. That's exactly what you're going to have to do the first time. Right? But yeah, so we need to inform we need to inform new Albertans coming from abroad.

This is what it is. This is what it is. It's how it works in this province. And if you're not happy, go to BC. There's plenty of stuff to do there, which I don't like. so make it make it exclusive but that's what that's what you're talking about right is we make

it exclusive that's what I love about Klein rough Klein is that like you know when I think of an Alberta politician I think of client like he is that he would be a not an outline but an almost almost an embodiment of Alberta yeah just this good old boy you know a beauty who is far is shrewd smart but also likes to go where do you go downstairs for chicken and chips you know when he when he had meetings. And this is what I found I found, I find to mention Ralph Klein because I have an engineer

that I work with and he was an MLA under the liberal government of Decor at the time. And he was speaking, he was, he was telling me stories about Ralph Klein bringing him totally drunk to his plane

to his plane at the downtown airport to ship him back to Calgary. But in a, I mean, not in the demizing way. Like, just like, they just had a good, a good talk.

with Lawrence Decor at the time and himself and all that super good evening with the guy even though that I mean Lawrence was the chief of the opposition at the time no but but anyway so all that to say that that that I agree with you that that that to be unaburton comes with his pros his cons but it is what is the same as Quebecer no like like they have their pros they have their cons but but it is what it is no and what you see is what you get I believe more more in Alberta than anywhere else and and and and and and no like I can't myself as an Albertton first. The same identity I had in Quebec during even that referendum campaign as well, I feel this. Plus, I married a girl that was born and raised here. My in-laws were born and raised in Edmonton. My wife born and raised in Edmonton, our four kids, all giving birth at the at the Green Ones Hospital in Edmonton. I mean, I'm at Burton. Like my accent is an outlier, but yeah, by heart for sure. Gentlemen, I appreciate you doing this.

We're closing in on Christmas. I really appreciate you guys giving me time today. And, well, safe travels back home, Ben, I appreciate you coming out. You got to, you know, just a quick side note. You actually, last time you were in the studio, we drove out here one morning, and I showed it to you. Yeah. I can't remember where it was at at that point. Has it met your expectations?

It's absolutely. It's beautiful. You didn't have your lights on the, on the, I mean, it was not as finished. as it is now it's it's absolutely gorgeous yeah and and again to come here it's it's a treat like like coming on that hill uphill just going down and see it's just beautiful i tell you what there's going to be many and more i find this room i like this room one-on-one but i love it when yeah when there's four guys around the table going at it i think there's going to be a lot of bright days ahead where there's some round tables in here about if it's alberta independence or or what have you the discussion of the day

I think there's going to be a lot of fun had in here and I appreciate you two doing this Tanner stuck around for people listening to treat for me I appreciate that. For the audience he's on tomorrow on Christmas Day with our annual Christmas episode and you know

I was just like do you want to hang out for one more? Yeah, not as well right so it was a real treat to have him around the table my it was yeah same for me lots of fun Merry Christmas Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas.