Shaun Newman Podcast - #990 - Kathy Flett & Angela Tabak

Episode Date: January 27, 2026

Kathy Flett and Angela Tabak are co-creators of the Alberta Women's Independence Network. Kathy and Angela are moms, wives, grandmas, and proud Albertans through and through. Like so many of us, they've watched federal policies, economic imbalances, and Ottawa's overreach impact their families, communities, and province. Rather than staying silent, they decided to take action in the most welcoming way possible—by bringing women together in living rooms, kitchens, and community spaces across Alberta for informal gatherings centered on education, dialogue, and plenty of dessert.Tickets to Cornerstone Forum 26’: https://www.showpass.com/cornerstone26/Tickets to the Mashspiel:https://www.showpass.com/mashspiel/Silver Gold Bull Links:Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/Email: [e-mail] Grahame: [phone]Bow Valley Credit UnionBitcoin: www.bowvalleycu.com/en/personal/investing-wealth/bitcoin-gatewayEmail: [e-mail] Prophet River Links:Website: store.prophetriver.com/Email: [e-mail] the code “SNP” on all ordersGet your voice heard: Text Shaun 587-217-8500

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Get your tickets down in the show notes. Showpass.com backslash Cornerstone 26. And there's some upcoming events here. For the Kids' sake, all right? For the Kids' sake is our local group here in Lloyd Minster. It's going to be running some different events. Wainwright, Thursday, January 29th. So that's just a couple days away.

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is by all of you wonderful people. All right. Let's get on to that tale of the tape. Today's guests are the co-creators of the Alberta Women's Independence Network. I'm talking about Kathy Flett and Angela Tayback. So buckle up. Here we go.

All right, welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Today I'm joined by Kathy Flett and Angela Tabak. So, ladies, welcome. Thank you. Now, you got to, I guess for the audience, let's start here. We'll start with Kathy, then we'll go to Angela. And then after that, please, ladies, this is a bit like a roundtable. Don't feel like it's always got to come back to me.

You're two smart, capable women. So we'll make sure that we get you talking about what's been going on in your worlds. but let's just start so the audience knows who they're listening to. Kathy, just tell us a bit about yourself so the audience knows a bit of, well, who you are. Who I am, absolutely. Yeah, Alberta girl born and raised. This is all I know. It's everything I love.

Northern Alberta by trade is what I like to say. I grew up in East River. What is Northern, yes, what is Northern Alberta? Peace River. Peace River's home. I was up there in that neighborhood last week and it just, it felt so good. It felt so good to go up Highway 43 again. And then most of my adult life was on the other side of the muskag in Fort McMurray.

And 15 years ago, I landed here in Sherwood Park and I've been in a bit of a culture shock ever since. There's just, there is a difference. There's a definite difference. But nevertheless, yeah, that's who I am as far as an Albertan. As far as this movement goes, I jumped in with both feet six years ago when Wexit started. And we caught lightning in a bottle and then it fizzled out so fast, so fast. and I didn't understand what happened. I was brand new to politics.

I had no idea. And I got a bit of a taste of the yuckiness that goes on behind the seats, but that didn't scare me away. So then I landed into the Freedom Conservative Party, and from there it changed its name to the Wex, or not Wexit, sorry, Wildrose Independence Party. And that's where Angela and I met. And then we just became fast friends and traveled the province together,

growing that as quickly as we could, and we did. We ended up with like 45% in the polls. without even a seat in the legislature. And then that just imploded something ferocious. And then Angela and I were like, okay, now what? And here we are today. We just, we never got out of it. Well, a question on Peace River.

What are you putting in the water up there? Because I played hockey against Peace River and those were some of the biggest, meanest boys ever. I mean, we still found ways to win. I don't want to give them all the credit in the world. But what is going on at Peace River and the water supply there or the food or I don't know what it is, but they breed them big up there because I've gotten run over by a few Peace River men in my time.

Yep, yeah, they're big boys up there, that's for sure. I don't know, maybe it's because every so often that river decides it wants to try and breach the banks and it's all the sandbagging and everybody getting together and doing what we need to do to save the place. But yeah, yeah, it's good, it's good. It's home. I love it. Angela. Yeah.

So same thing. I'm an Alberta girl. Although I have lived for a time in Europe, spent some time in Quebec, British Columbia, and about seven years in California. But yeah, I was raised also in Northern Alberta.

Spent some time in Peace River. Turns out Kathy and I actually went to the same elementary school at the same time, but didn't know each other because we were a couple years apart. But then I ended up mostly growing up in Fort McMurray. So my father worked for the provincial government. So kind of got transferred all over the place, but Fort McMurray is kind of where we landed and where I spent most of my, you know, developing years type of thing. But yeah, ended up back in Southern Alberta after, like I said, that stint in California, I've been back in Southern Alberta since 2007, 2008.

And same thing, got involved in the independence movement through the Wild Rose Independence party. Coming up on six years now, accidentally became the president of the constituency association. I didn't know what a constituency association was when I became the president. So it was kind of baptism by fire. Yeah, so everything that Kathy has already described. It's very interesting when you look at the history of independence in Alberta. You know, I love reading Michael Wagner and he He has done such a wonderful job of laying out what has happened, what the history has been over the last 40 years in Alberta. And so, yeah, we see these cycles. We see these patterns.

And Kathy and I witnessed it up close and personal how the independence movement is thwarted by those who benefit from the status quo, no doubt. from the status quo. And yeah, anyway, so we saw that. And then last year, about November, I was kind of looking at the fact that, okay, we're going to have another federal election coming up here pretty quick. And what effect is this going to have on Alberta independence? So either we're going to end up with another liberal government and that sentiment of discontent is going to be on the rise again or we're going to end up with a conservative government and it will fizzle a little bit but i was quite convinced that even with a conservative government people would soon realize that nothing changes it doesn't matter who is in government in ottawa um nothing changes

and there's a reason for that the system is set up in a way um to to create that so about november i started kind of thinking a lot about this and I'm a person of faith so kind of taking it to prayer and just asking like is there something that I should be doing or I could be doing what direction should I be going and I wasn't getting anything until last January I have a daughter who lives in North Carolina and she's got three of my four grandchildren down there and I went down for my oldest granddaughter's birthday. So she was turning five and she ended up getting mono quite severely. And so we were in the hospital with her and the one day I was laying on the bed with her and she was asleep. We're kind of waiting for some test results to come back. And I just had this feeling,

get out your phone, open up notes. I'm going to tell you something. I was like, okay. And it was like a download. I've never had that experience before, but it was a download and it was like you are going to start a women's organization. This is what you're going to call it, the Alberta Women's Independence Network. This is what your goal is going to be. It's going to be creating community around respectful dialogue around the idea of Alberta independence and it's going to be focused on education and reaching out to women who in the past have not been involved in politics. And that was it. And I was like, what? And so I sat on that. I honestly really struggled with the idea of a women's organization, because I'm like, what is that about? You know, having been

involved with WIPA, I did understand that when it comes to leadership in the independence movement, that women have pretty much been in the minority. I understood that politics is ugly and gross. And for the most part, as women, you know, we're busy. We don't have time to deal with the egos and all that junk. And so we kind of shy away from that. It feels like getting into a pig pen. So anyways, yeah, I sat on it for about three weeks before I finally approached

Kathy with it and I said, what do you think? And she wasn't too happy. Kathy said, no. No, we're not doing this. Kathy said no. But then I too took it to prayer. And I said, okay, Father, this is actually your gig. What's it going to be?

And he said, you're going to go do it. Okay. So you've created the Alberta Women's Independence Network. Do I have that right? Yeah. And you know what? Let me just clarify. It's a giant nothing burger.

Yeah, we don't have a website. We have an email. We don't have a website. We don't ask for donations. We don't raise money. We don't. We're not registered as a society or anything like that. I mean, we had to give it.

Well, it was given a name. But that's it. And it's basically a bunch of women getting together over coffee. And we have one little simple handout that we give to folks that goes over the um basically the the the political structure in canada you know um the west minister system that we operate under and how and what our representation is in the house of commons and in the senate and um it's just a real simple discussion but it gets the discussion going and i'm just always shocked but i shouldn't be shocked at how few people have

really understand what type of system we operate under in Canada. Yes. But I mean, when you, when you, I'm chuckling on this side, nobody can see me. I'm truckling now maybe they can. I'm truckling on this side because I'm like, you didn't know anything about it. Then you start to learn about it. You're like, oh my goodness, what's going on? I didn't want to be a CA president.

Somehow I fell into a CA president. I'm like, you don't fall into a CA president. Obviously, you got your head on your shoulders because those positions don't, don't just slide, you know, you're willing to put in the work. That's what happens, right? So then you start to learn more and then you're like, what is going on here? Right.

And so, you know, one of the things on this side I always say is like, there's only we just, we were, we're closing in on episode a thousand. And I'd release that video for people to watch. And when I go back seven years, just in my journey. So back to 2019, I knew less than I don't even know one percent on politics. Like I just, I didn't know anything. I didn't pay attention to it. I didn't care about it.

And then the more you start to pay attention, the more you start to go into it, you're like, maybe things can change. And then it's all the things you just said. Honestly, Angela, it's all the things you just said.

It's like, holy man, is this a pig pen. This is, this isn't, like this game is dirty. You know, you say women don't want to be involved in it.

I don't know how many men want to be involved in it. Because you just see how, how this doesn't make any sense. We're not saying anything radical. They call it radical, but it's like, aren't we all, fairness and equality and all these words.

And then when you point that out, they're like, shut up, Alberta. You stay down West. Don't you talk about all these things. You're like, but something's not right here because we're seeing it and we're starting. You're not supposed to read those things. Go to work.

Don't think about these things. On what you guys have been, ladies have been talking about. So what are you been doing that? You've just been having coffee at a shop? Or have you been, you know, are you getting calls to go elsewhere? both both so it's mostly I mean we started off mostly in people's homes like I just

started reaching out to some friends and I just said hey you want to have some people over and let's just have this discussion and they were like yeah sure and so that was the end of March is when we started that and you know I was keeping track of how often we were doing this and the next thing I know we're up in Grand Prairie talking in front of a group that it's like a town hall type thing and the next you know two days later we're in medicine hat in someone's home and and kind of everywhere in between and by the end of june i stopped keeping track of how many of these these meetings we've been having and they're small they know sometimes we have four people sometimes we have 44 people depending on who's hosting it

and where they want to want to do it and is it all women no we have men included uh and that has been interesting so kathy why don't you go ahead and explain that one because it's both of us came We were doing meetings separately and together, but both of us came to the same conclusion about the same time. Yeah. So men are always welcome. We've always said that. But just to know that our message is tailored, it's designed for us. Because we look at this differently, right?

Women look at the whole independence topic, subject with a different lens than you guys do. And the best way I can describe it is a book that I came across a long, long time ago. that was called women are like spaghetti or are like spaghetti and men are like waffles and so the idea behind that is is men you guys your brains are like a waffle you've got all these little compartments all these little compartments in there and you deal with one compartment at a time and if whatever's in that little square in that waffle if you can't figure it out you'll just smash it off and move on to the next one that's just how you're wired that's how god made you but women we're more like spaghetti so All of the things in our life are all of those strands.

All the things in your lives are all those squares and the waffle. You deal with them in one time. But us, it's like spaghetti. We deal with everything at once. It's how God made us. It's how we're wired. So then when you drop this meatball onto our spaghetti, we're not only trying to figure out how to keep the spaghetti on the plate.

We're trying to figure out how to incorporate the meatball. So the women are like, well, what about my kids' school? What about health care? What does this mean for my mortgage? What about my aging parents? How am I going to look after them in this new republic of Alberta? Basically, it's all the security factors. It's all the nurturing factors.

How much are groceries going to cost? What is all of these things? What about my community? What about my church? We're looking at all of that. Well, the men are like, okay, what's the government going to look like? What's the structure going to look like? What is the military going to look like?

What are our police going to look like? And so we were able to tailor our marriage to show our marriage, Our message to show the ladies, this is the mess we're in, and it doesn't matter what meatball falls on our plate, we can't fix it. We can't fix it. And when we would get to that point, that's usually when the counseling session begins. Because there's a morning that has to take place that we can't make it better. It doesn't matter what we do.

It doesn't matter what we try. And as we were talking this out and what we discovered is that in these groups, if the number of men and women in the room are the same, they are both hearing that message. The women are really, really receiving it and both will talk about it. No problem. The minute that there's more women in the room than men, the women will dominate the conversation and really get into what's important to them,

the men are listening and just taking it all in the minute there's more men than women the women stop talking because the men tend to speak in more aggressive tones they're more a little more adversarial talking things out and women are typically not into that kind of conversation they don't like that they just want to talk about things over a nice glass of wine or a cup of tea without without this combativeness that you guys just kind of naturally do and I don't understand understand it. I'm hoping one day I can meet Jordan Peterson and he can tell me and explain this to me, but it is how it is. It's how we're wired. And so we have been focusing, okay, ladies, here's the mess we're in. Here's why we can't fix it. But here's what we can do to make it better for our

babies now and in the future. And this is why we need to do it. Our kids and our grandkids are depending on us to make these decisions. And if we don't, they're going to suffer. And then how are we going to look at ourselves in the mirror. And it's working. The women are getting it. They're understanding it. Well, I assume Jordan Peterson would say something about the masculine versus the feminine. As you're talking about the waffle versus the spaghetti, all I see is a door and I just

want to boot it in. Let's just go. You know, it's time to just like smash it out. I don't need to look at the door. I don't need to describe the door. I see the door that's booted in. And I can imagine the group of men sitting around going, can I just solve this problem? Can we just, can we just, I, you know, she's a lovely lady.

And at times the way her brain works, I'm sure she hates me. Because I'm like, it doesn't make any sense. What are you talking about? Regardless, that isn't what we're here to do. We're not here today. So men, you just sit there and you drive silently because now I'm like, okay, you've been meeting in coffee houses, you've been meeting in homes, you've been, you've been doing all these little things.

What mess are we in? And if your message is tailored to, to women, then speak to the women that are listening because there is a lot. And I would say, don't look at me, you know, you two chat, because I'm just going to hopefully add a couple questions in that help. Well, I mean, first and foremost, I think it comes down to fairness. You know, and as a mother and a grandmother, that's one of the first things that you teach a young child is that we are fair, that we are considerate of other people and their plights and what they might need. And of, and of course, talking to a two or three-year-old. This can be a little different than when you're talking to an

adult. But, you know, when we take a look and we always start off with two maps, one shows the Senate seat allocation in Canada, and one shows the House of Commons seat allocation in Canada. And, you know, when we're doing the smaller meetings, Kathy's been doing a lot of larger meetings, and so she's been doing it with a PowerPoint. But when we do the smaller ones, I love to physically hand them this handout. So they've got it in their hand and they're looking at it. And we have two questions. One is, what are your thoughts when you first see this? And for a lot of people, it's the first time that they've actually taken a look at the whole country. And they're actually seeing like, okay, BC has this number, Ontario is this number,

you know, that type of thing. And the other question is, how did we get to these numbers? And some of the comments we get, you know, or people, when they first see it, they're just like, you know, there's some expletives and stuff. Angela, before you go on, what are the numbers for people that maybe don't know the numbers? Well, okay, like the Senate is kind of easier to regurgitate just off top of my head because we're looking at Quebec and Ontario. Each of them have 24 seats in the Senate. the maritime provinces, each of them have six seats each and in the western provinces, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, and BC, each of us have six. It has nothing to do with population. That is the number one guess that people say, well, these numbers come from population. With the

Senate, absolutely not. We're going back to, you know, when Canada, you know, we were being colonized, by we were a British colony and they decided they were going to create the dominion of Canada and we had upper and lower Canada going right back to our grade five social studies type of thing upper and lower Canada well you're going to have a Westminster system and so you're going to have a Senate upper Canada has 24 seats lower Canada has 24 seats at that time it made total sense but then as the other provinces came into Confederation under different methods under different pretences like for example the maritime provinces negotiated their way into

Confederation and they looked themselves and their size and the fact that they would never come anywhere close to the population that Quebec and Ontario have and so they said we are going to be a region and therefore if we have six each that gives us 24 and and so we're somewhat equal to what Ontario has what Quebec has. But when we look at how the West, the Western Canadian provinces were developed, it was a completely different situation. BC negotiated somewhat coming into Confederation. Manitoba negotiated somewhat. Alberta and Saskatchewan, there was zero negotiation. It was straight up colonization. Here's this big chunk of land. We need those resources. Up to this point, it had been

Rupert's land. the Hudson's Bay Company had basically been using it as an area to do their fur trades and that type of thing. But the East soon recognized that we need the resources of this area, and so we're going to bring it into Confederation. And so, yeah, there was no negotiation. It was, well, we'll grant you six. And that's the disparity in the Senate right there. And then the House of Commerce is a whole other animal. Speaking on the Senate, we get to choose our representatives, though, right? Oh, sure.

Not? No. Nope. And that's actually something that I've added to my presentations that I've been doing lately is screenshots of, in particular, Paula Simons. and what she has to say about those of us who wanted dependence, it's not very nice, and this is our representative in the Senate who's calling us all sorts of names.

And then, of course, there's the fine doctor whose values are not going to align with ours, I'm sure, at least not the majority. And there's nothing we can do. We cannot get these guys out. They're there until they're 75 or die, whichever comes first. Well, and the one that I didn't know about the doctor, If I'm being honest, when I was listening to guys, I was sitting there thinking Charles Adler.

I was like, oh, yeah, Charles Adler. And then you walk me through the last Senate appointment from Alberta. Oh, it's horrific. Like this guy, so Dr. Christopher Wells, you know, he was a professor. I think in our one original video, I said the University of Alberta, but I've come to find out. I think it's actually Grant McEwen University is where he was this professor. And, you know, his claim to fame was back in the day when we had the NDP in Alberta.

They had put into law that if a student in a school approached the school and requested a gay straight alliance club, that the school had to provide them with a space to hold this club, a teacher to kind of facilitate it. And also there was some resources. The NDP government came up with this package of resources for these clubs. Now understand these clubs could have children as young as kindergarten all the way to grade 12. And it came out in the news that this package of information that had been put together was contained a lot of links and actual porn like hard copy pornographic material that was supposed to be given to these children.

And when I remember reading the news article, I was like, that can't be true. And so I actually clicked on the link to see this information that was being given to our school children. And it was so disturbing to this day. I'm like, I can't believe this. And Dr. Christopher Wells was the head of the committee that put that package of information together. And this is how we're going to teach our children about sex.

sexuality. And this is our senator. And I can guarantee you he does not represent me or my values. And I could I would bet my house that he does not represent the vast majority of Albertans. And we can't vote him out. And we didn't vote him in. And we didn't vote him in. He was a Trudeau appointee. Yeah. And that's the other thing about the Senate that people don't realize they thought in the spring election that if that if Pollyev got in. and everything was going to be great, right? He was going to be the savior because we'd finally have a conservative election. But almost all of the Senate appointments right now

are Trudeau appointees. There's only a very small handful. And any law that gets passed, any bill that gets passed in parliament has to go through both houses. So it doesn't matter what Pollyav thought he would be able to accomplish. Nothing would pass the Senate.

So we're still screwed. So it makes no sense. What do women say to this? I'm just kind of curious now. You're sitting there. Hey, we're screwed. We're screwed. Well, I sometimes use a little bit of a stronger word than that.

But yeah, they just sit there literally. Well, and the guys too. Oftentimes the guys are just staring too. Like, they can't believe it. They can't believe it. And then to drive at home, I say, well, when, what time did they call the election? When did they call the winner in the spring at that election? And nobody really knows.

And I say, 806. What time did our polls close? Well, eight o'clock. So they didn't even have our boxes ripped open to start counting. Your votes don't matter. Even if you voted for the winner and don't admit it, please. But even if you did, your vote was not required to make it happen. Your vote doesn't count.

So why are we even here? And at that point, that's sort of when you start seeing the women get mad going, yeah, why are we here? It's over. Let's go. Yeah. And I believe this is why we're seeing these huge lines. for folks who want to sign that petition, you know, to petition the government, please hold a referendum on independence. We're seeing huge lineups that have been unprecedented that we're not expected at that level.

And it's because our voice is finally going to count. Yeah. And it never has before. For the first time, our voice is going to count. Just on this petition, the message that we can send, the message that we can send, the The first shot across the bow is this petition to let Ottawa know you are on notice and you better get a cushion for your chair because we're going to be sitting down and negotiating a divorce, not a better deal, a divorce. And they know it. They know it. Since going on this, how long have you been doing this now?

I forget to help. End of March. End of March. Yeah. It's closing in on a year then. Oh, I guess so. Yeah. So on the journey of talking to women across Alberta, because it sounds like you've been to a lot of different communities across Alberta, I assume you mentioned, somebody mentioned, one of you two mentioned patterns. Have you spotted any patterns when it comes to these meetings? Yes and no. The questions tend to be the same. There's definitely a pattern in the questions. Probably the greatest question. And this is for both.

and women, but the women in particular is how do we do this and what does it look like on the other side? That's the pattern as far as the question goes or questions that come up. But the other greatest pattern that I witness, and I think, Angela, you probably do too. Angela and I live in two different parts of the province, so we're not always together in these meetings. But one of the things that I've always noticed is we literally do the pattern is you go through all the stages of grief in about 15 minutes. when you're talking to these women because they're like, oh, no, we're good. Everything is okay. We just, you know, we just need to try harder.

We just need to talk. We just need to talk this out. We just need to fix it. And then you see denial hit when you begin to tell them the story. And then they get angry, which is never good. And then they're going to bargain. They're like, oh, no, we can. I think they just haven't heard us.

They just haven't heard us. Let's bargain this out. And then you get to the other side, right? And then the depression kicks in. And they're like, oh, my gosh, we really can't fix this. This isn't great. And they start thinking about everything that matters to them about their kids and their home and their communities. And then they cruise on to the other side and they begin to see, okay, you know what, there's a way out.

There's a light at the end of this tunnel. And they start to accept the idea that there is independence. And then there's that hope that follows that, yep, boom, let's go. And, I mean, honestly, if we keep up with what we're doing, you boys, we're going to be out running you pretty soon for the door on our way out of Confederation. Because once these ladies grab onto it, they don't let go. But that's the pattern is it's literally that journey, that journey through all of those stages of grief. And sometimes, yeah, some, yes, you'll see that. You'll see the wheels turning and you realize what's happening inside their mind and their heart and all that.

But sometimes it's not within the 30 minutes. Sometimes it takes much longer than that. And I'll just tell you this story about a neighbor of mine. So Susan is a retired nurse. She's in her 70s. And I'm having a meeting at my home and she shows up. Somebody else had invited her. I'd never thought to invite her. I didn't know her very well. And someone in the community had invited her to come along and she shows up and she's sitting there through the whole thing. And she, you know, at the end, you know, when we're kind of discussing, she says, I just can't do it. I can't get there. I'm a proud Canadian. I've been

Canadian my whole life. I love my country. I just, I just can't see it. And I said, Susan, it's perfectly fine. Like, I'm glad that you came. I'm glad that you've had this conversation. And whatever you decide, like, I support you in that. That is a personal decision. And you're right. It's hard. We often take our identity from our nationality. I was a proud Canadian. I wasn't anymore. And so I was like, that's perfectly fine. So a couple of weeks later, I have another meeting at my house and some other people are coming. Susan walks in the door. I'm like, hey, hey, Susan. Okay, great to have you. I'm thinking, are you just here for like tea or something? Anyways, go through the whole thing again. At the end, she's like, I still can't do it.

I can't bring myself to get on board. It's perfectly fine, Susan. I'm glad. that you came awesome lovely to see you again you know you're good end up having a meeting someone in the community says you know what we need to rent the community hall i'm going to rent the community hall we're going to have a bigger meeting okay fine susan shows up again like what the heck so anyways this time susan is on board this time susan's raising her hand and she's contributing and she's like you know what i had a really hard time but i'm in i'm all in and she's so funny she shows up to every meeting. Now she is convinced that there are enough good people across the country that if we got to the point where we had a clear referendum and we end up in negotiation with the rest of the

country, she wants to give the good people of Canada the opportunity to stand up for what is right and to fix this. And so that's why she's in. It's different than why I'm in, but that's why she's in. And she is just, I just love her. She is just fantastic. But so sometimes it's as Kathy has described. Oftentimes it is. And then sometimes it takes a little longer. And we're totally 100% supportive of that.

Yeah, that's a good point, Angela. There was, you reminded me of, I think I told you about the lady that approached me in Edson after I was done. I was just in Edson on whatever day that was, Saturday, and did a presentation there. And afterwards, this lady comes up and she went, Kathy, it's Darlene, like as though we knew each other from way back. So I just went with it because sometimes people, I've met them, but I've forgotten that I've met them. And I hadn't actually met her, but she was literally in tears. And she says, I couldn't understand where you guys were coming from on this whole independence thing.

So I came out to listen to you because I had to know. I had to try. And she says, I get it now. I get it. And I will be signing that petition. And she was in tears, not because she was happy, but because she was so sad at what she had been led to believe about Canada. And now she says, I've got to try and get my church to understand.

She says, I'm a believer too. She says, I'm like you. She says, my church doesn't get it. And now I've got to somehow go home and try. and help them to understand that we can't fix this. And it was just the emotion. I think maybe that's another pattern that the women have more so than the men is, it's a very emotional experience for a lot of them to come across to the, to see it.

Well, I can't speak for every man because obviously that'd be silly of me. But I know when you're starting to stare at things and learn things, it's there's a there's a gut check moment of like this can all be true like this can't be that bad you know and and we're talking about Canada and and you know I on this show we talk about a lot I'm like it can't be that bad I go back to COVID can't be that bad can't be that bad can't be can't be that bad people who've been listening to me over a long time remember all those interviews I go back and I'm listening myself I'm like oh man I took a long time I took a long long time and I was talking to some very intelligent people.

And I still was like, I don't know. So I don't think men and women are so different that way. Some people can get it right away. And maybe they've had their thoughts of like, something's up. I don't know what's up. And then you put the piece together and like, that's it. I knew something was up. And other people have really tied their identity to Canada.

You know? Yeah. I think of just myself, you know, traveling parts of the world and being very proud of the Canadian flag. Absolutely. And having people come up to me because I was Canadian specifically to talk to me about being from Canada and what a wonderful country it was and all these things. All that gets tied to you, you know, and then to see how far we've fallen. You know, it's, I think it's difficult for a lot of people to wrestle with, whether they're men or women. What I find interesting about what you two ladies are talking about.

Maybe I'm wrong on this is I find I talk a lot to people who are already investing. into politics. They're like paying attention to it. They've been separatists for a long time or they weren't. But the more they hear, the more they're like, this doesn't, oh, this isn't good, right? And they've been wrestling with a long time. It sounds like you're talking to women who haven't really been involved in it at all. Am I right in that? 100%. Correct. That's interesting because I find getting people, you know, I don't know, lots of men. Their eyes glaze over. when you start talking politics. They want to talk about last night's Euler game.

I got nothing against that. I was thinking this morning, they talk about bread and circus, professional sports. At times, I think American politics is bread and circus. Oh, yeah. Because we stare at Donald Trump and we assume, oh, yeah, he's going to just ride into Alberta and liberate us. It's like, what are we talking about?

We can do something ourselves, folks, regardless. Talking to newbies about politics, that is a very interesting challenge. How do you convince them to come out and sit and chat about this? Well, that's where the community comes in, right? And this is where the networking part comes in because it's like, and I always tell people like, you know people I don't know and I know people you don't know, but we can we can be that bridge between them, right? And yeah, it's not difficult because you're just simply inviting your neighbor's over for dessert.

Yeah. Desert does solve a lot of problems. I will give it that. Yes. And this is and we kind of, we kind of joke in one of our bylines is, you know, these types of conversations need dessert. Uh-huh. I can get, I can get behind that. Sean Newman podcast.

These conversations need dessert. That has a nice ring. to it if I'm being honest ladies. Right. And that's what we tell. And sometimes wine. And sometimes wine. I don't drink wine. I'm a I'm a herbal tea drinker, but yeah, whatever it is, you need it. Right. And and that's all it is. It's just and it's just been like, so we have, you know, we'll go to someone's home. They've invited friends over that we don't know. And then at the end, we just say, is this something that you would want to do? Like, would you like to have some friends over. And so we walk away with a list of two, three, five, six people, whatever that have

said, yeah, I'll have some friends over. It's that simple. Have you had, I'm curious, because I feel like in some of the circles or conversations I've made, been a part of, there's usually you get somebody who really pushes on it. Do you get ladies who are like, you're wrong or I don't know, they come in a little more hostile, I guess. Because when you're bringing in a whole new group of people over and over again, you get people all across the spectrum of they've been paying attention and they're very in to they don't think anything's wrong, I assume. What do you think, Kathy? Like I can think of one example. Well, there was one example, but it's not really because of, I think because you're in someone's home, there's that warmth, there's that feeling of community. And we really stress that, hey, you know what?

Like we're all on different pages maybe when it comes to this, different levels of understanding. And like this is a judgment-free zone. Like we're just we're just having a conversation. I remember I did a meeting in Calgary and there was like 15 women crammed into like this tiny little apartment living room. So we're like right like shoulder to shoulder type of thing. And we do that, you know, we have the conversation. We do our little presentation with the handout. And then I kind of just went around.

I said like, just tell me like who you are. Why you're here. What brought you here? Well, there was one woman there who she said, I am not in support of this. I never have been. I'm an NDP supporter. You know, that type of thing.

She said, but my mom is very much into this. And she invited me to come along and I wanted to just understand where you're coming from. And thank you so much because now I understand. So it wasn't pushback. that there's clearly we get folks that that aren't necessarily thinking that anything is wrong or that that needs to be fixed. But what about you, Kathy? I think that you've, well, you've done bigger meetings where you've kind of gotten a little

pushback. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I've had, yeah, some of the bigger meetings I've gotten the pushback. That's for sure. And it's usually the guys that are pushing back at me, which is fun. But anyway, I think as far as the ladies go, it has. it hasn't so much been folks that are completely against us but these are the women that will come out to a smaller meeting in somebody's home where it's cozy and it's comfortable and you can

kind of tuck your feet up under you if you need to they don't want to go to the rallies they're not comfortable in the bigger settings they don't they don't want to go to the rah rah raw kind of things and ask and be too scared to ask their question because what if it's a dumb question. So the folks there are no dumb questions to the ladies listening. If I've proven one thing on this show, there are no dumb questions. Yeah, but that's what they're thinking. That's what are they're going to get dog piled because they said something that was against because we're we're portrayed out in the media or in the public as really, you know, awful people. Those of us that want independence, right? Like that's just how it is. So there's going to be a bit of a natural hesitation.

for folks who don't know us personally to not want to come to these bigger meetings. And that's who I'm seeing at the smaller ones are the ones that are curious, but they don't want to go to the bigger meetings. And so it's really fun to be able to get to know them and for them to get to know us and realize that we don't actually have six heads

with horns growing out of all of them. We're just normal regular Albertans who want the best for our neighbors and ourselves. If there's ladies listening, and they're like, hey, maybe they could do a meeting at my place. Where would you direct them? They can find us on Facebook. So Alberta Women's Independence Network. We also are on X or they can simply email us. Oh, we also have our YouTube channel, but they can simply email us at AB Women's Independence Network at gmail.com.

Or you can text me ladies. I already know. Yeah, it's a long one. There's going to be a few that like, can you just share that email with me? Yes, I can. Yes, I can. Any final thoughts on this? I don't, you know, it's funny. I was very interested to have you two on because, you know, I've been talking on and off the Alberta independence thought for, well, for sure since the election, but I want to say it was before that. I think this has been a conversation that's been brewing for quite some time. Obviously, the history of this goes way back. What I find interesting about this is, it's not like, hey, we're holding 15 rallies and come out to this big. It's like, do you want to have some coffee and dessert? It's like, yeah, I kind of want to have some coffee and dessert.

If I'm being honest, you're making me hungry. So that, that I find interesting. I just, I find on this question, they brand everybody who wants this question even possible as a certain subset. And then I talk to different people and there's all these different subsets that are like, no, I just like to, even go back, I forget the lady's name, Angela, that you were talking about, the 70-year-old. Well, Susan. Susan, who's like, I want a better deal for Alberta. And I think we can get it by having a referendum question. Just showing that is pushing the out east.

I would agree with her. I would say that's probably true. If you want to get a better deal, you don't ask for a handout. You put yourself in the best possible scenario where they have to come to the table and meet you. And I think this is one of the ways that can facilitate that. But regardless, is there anything else that you ladies want to make sure ladies here in Alberta, maybe across Canada, no-bo? Well, there's two thoughts that come to mind.

You know, when it comes to the independence movement in general, is that we have to, you know, like the APP has done a fantastic job of getting the messaging kind of out there, right? But we also have to understand that whenever there's like a new concept or a new idea, you know, there's always that that bit of a curve, right, where you got your innovators and your early adopters. Well, we already have all of all of the early adopters are already on board, right? Now we're getting into the section where we need to get that majority and we might have to change our messaging a little bit or kind of like what we're doing. Like our messaging is different than the APP because we're going after a different subset of those folks, right?

We have to understand that the same messaging is not going to work on everybody. And so we have to be kind of careful of that. The other thing too, and Kathy and I are always talking about this because of our experience with the Wild Rose Independence Party, We have to understand that there are folks that will do anything to thwart this movement. And they are very well organized and very well funded. And they know exactly what they're doing. And, you know, when I was in the Wild Rose Independence Party, it was heartbreaking to see what happened. because I had spent a couple of years, you know, we had grown our constituency association.

We were very active. We had donors. We had members, all this stuff, and only to see it be taken down within a matter of months, very efficiently. So while I hated to see it, I was also in awe at, wow, like how they're doing this and learned a lot from it. And we need to understand that those same people and the same ideas are at work right now. And so we just have to be aware and careful. But what is different about the movement today is it is not driven by a political party. And there are several different groups, individuals, organizations that are all, we're all pulling on different ropes, but we're pulling in the same direction. And so if one of those ropes snaps, it's okay.

If we start to see some infighting or the egos getting in the way or whatever, it's okay this time because we've got so many different people working on this. We don't have that one political party with the giant target on their back. They just need to take that down and then the movement's done. So that's my thoughts. I don't know, Kathy, did you have anything? Well, I think yes, yes to everything you just said. Because we watched it, right?

We watched it three times. So we can definitely recognize it when it begins to happen again. The other thing that I would like people to take away from this conversation is that we need to also recognize that this whole independence movement is a little bit similar to when God told Abram to, go to the land that I'm going to show you. And Abram said, okay, where am I going? And the Lord said, well, I'll show you. There is no map, right? We don't have a map. Nobody's done this before. As Albertans, we are blazing yet another trail. And so there's going to be a lot of questions. And at some points in our journey, there's not going to be a lot of answers. But that doesn't mean it's not figure outable. It just means we have to continue to work together to find the answers.

as to how to do things or how to get things done all we have a map for is to get to that referendum question that's it after that it's a battle of political wills and we need to be ready for that we need to be united in that it doesn't mean we're always going to agree we got to get rid of this one issue voter garbage um that that happens amongst us but we can get there we can get there We've got to acknowledge the fact that we're not going to have all the answers right now, but everything is figure outable. That is my new favorite word. We will figure it out.

And we will. We always have. That's our whole entire history as Albertans is figuring things out. And I have this thing in my head that when we have our new license plate in the Republic of Alberta, on the bottom, it should just say get or done, because that's exactly how we are. And we will get this done too. but we need to trust one another in the process and kind of put some of our own biases and opinions aside and make sure we're working together. Don't let them divide us. We cannot let them

divide us and they're going to try. Yeah, I was two thoughts here ladies. One, when you talk about all the different ropes, Angela and one breaking, well, what's the definite, I don't know what the actual definition of the grassroots movement is. I don't have it sitting in front of me. But like, when you have like these things popping up you can be as organized as you want but it's like there's a town hall over there okay there's a oh we got to be over here oh and there's something to happen over there it's like there's too many things popping up all at the same time to be that organized to shut it down you can go to mainstream media and demonize them simple that's that is a tactic you can you can just hammer on them with different things they're going to try and do things

to the question they're going to try and rile up the first nations they're going to try and rile up the NDP and once again you've already pointed out that an NDP person came out. It was like, oh, it's interesting, right? Because NDP should be just as interested at this as the conservative voter. 100%. Right? This isn't one if you're on a political team. But regardless, that's the, the levers that are going to pull. Because there's just no way to show up to all the town halls. You could try. There's just so many. Have a adder. How do you show up to somebody's, you know, a coffee in a house? It's like, you can get in. Sure. you want to come sit?

That'd be interesting. The other thing that, Kathy, you said that I found interesting, you've watched it three times. Could you explain that thought to me? So I began in Wexit, right? That was my first beginning of this whole, like, baptized in fire in that,

and I watched that get torn down from within. I watched it. I didn't realize that's what I was seeing at the time, but I watched it get torn down from within. And then from there, I went to the Freedom Conservative Party. called at the time and then it changed into the wild rose independence party of alberta and twice in that experience the last one uh being the one that angela and i were caught up in the middle

of where you see it pulled down from within and people say and this is one of the things that angela and i warn and warn people about all the time they say it's infighting or it's conservatives eat eating their own they like the egos and all of that that's only half right it's exactly as Angela described. There's people that don't want to see this happen. And so they go and start connecting with the people that are involved in these parties or in these very well-organized groups and they find the ones, they find the low-hanging fruit. Who can they convince to take on the assignment to pull it down from within? And then they work with those people and who knows what the promises are on the other side? I don't know because I'm not one of those people, obviously.

but they work with those people and it makes it look like infighting. And then they pull it all down in the middle. And then the movement is like, well, now what? We have no leader. But it was all very well orchestrated and very well organized to do that. And that's why it's exactly, as Angela said, this time we got smart. And people would say, ask us all the time, well, are you part of APP? Nope.

Are you part of the Republican Party? Nope. Are you part of the Independence Party? Nope. Are you part of anything? Nope. well why not well because if angela and i are talking and corey morgan is talking and keith wilson is talking and the folks over when app was doing their thing are talking and whoever else is

talking all of these voices we're all friends we all talk to one another quite often but we're all talking we're all saying the same message but we just created an incredible game of whackamol for the forces that don't want to see this succeed they can't take us all down at once if we're not all under the same umbrella and that's why it's That's why we're as far as we've been. That's why we got this far. It's funny. I haven't used this analogy in a long time, but an island that stands by itself can be destroyed by a storm, right?

But an archipelago, a group of islands worked together to, like, create a barrier, so to speak. I may be getting that partially wrong. I used to talk about this a lot back in COVID because, you know, if you formed a group, then you were easy to attack. You were like a big target that could come in and do exactly what you're talking about. but when it's so many happening almost spontaneously. It's like, well, we can start, we can go over there and we can start attacking this person. But then there's like five others that are all just, you know, talking or meeting or creating things or trying to push this ahead.

So I appreciate you ladies giving me some time today because I find the idea that you're working on very, very interesting. And it's funny, I had a group of women text me about it. And then, Angela, you text me. I was like, this is funny. Really? Yeah. Oh, yeah. So I'll be curious, you know, where the journey takes you ladies, because I think these conversations need dessert should be your tagline.

I mean, like, geez, that's awesome. I'd probably buy that T-shirt. Either way, keep doing what you're doing. I think that's a, regardless of where independence goes, that idea of just trying to bring people into a discussion. and have an open space of like, listen, you can think what you want, you can ask your questions,

we just wanna bring people in on it is, a healthy, honestly, I think it's a healthy idea for society. It is. Yeah, building that community back. Yeah, building that community is just, and that's the thing, every time we come back out of a meeting, it's just like, oh my goodness,

I just feel like my heart is just grown because now there's more ladies in my, you know, those are my people type of thing. And we're just creating this community that's growing and growing. wonderful. Well, thanks ladies for hopping on and doing this. Thank you so much.