Shaun Newman Podcast - Ep. #108 - Chicago Blackhawks Darryl Sutter

Episode Date: August 26, 2020

Originally from Viking AB. Darryl comes from hockey lore, he is one of 7 brothers six of which made the NHL. We talk about growing up on the Sutter farm, playing a year in Japan and then finally cracking the NHL with an Original 6  squad the Chicago Blackhawks. Unreal guy.  Let me know what you think     Text me! 587-217-8500

Hi, this is Braden Holpe. Hi, this is Brian Burke. This is Kelly Rudy. Hello, everyone. I'm Carlyagro from SportsNet Central. I am Jason Greger. Hi, this is Scott Hartnell. This is Quick Dick McDick.

Hey, it's Ron McLean, Hockey Night in Canada, and Rogers' hometown hockey, and welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks. Currently sitting in a hotel room with my parents' TV turned right down low. I've got to give a shout out to, well, both my parents. They've come along for the journey. the S&P summer road trip. My father will not let me take the helm of the ship, so he's been driving the entire time.

We're 1,500 K in. We've taken a two-hour ferry ride across to the island, and it's been a fun little journey thus far. But you don't want to hear anything about that. We want to get on to today's guest, and before we do that, we better talk about the people who've been helping make this, trip possible. So first off, foremost, originally the idea for this trip happened sitting in

their boardroom, so shout out to Lewis Stang. They offer smooth walled grain bins, hopper bottoms, and fuel tanks. They're in stock and manufactured locally. They want to ensure that you know they are constructed the highest quality and engineered for a long life. Delivery is free within 300 kilometer radius of Lloydminster. You can buy at any of their co-op locations, Lloydminster, Lashburn, or Nielberg. For more, more information you can check them out at their website foremost.ca. Baker Hughes Upstream Chemicals. When you need improved performance or productivity,

your solution often exists in the proper application of specialty chemicals. We offer multiple chemical lines to improve performance, use, and production. Not to mention, we have the best group of guys, yours truly included, around that will go above and be on to ensure you get what you need and answers to all your questions. For all your oil field chemical needs, look, to Baker Hughes. And finally, Tracy Klotz, the CEO of Titus Tools, a locally owned business with which Tracy

formed in 1997. A shout out to Tracy. He approached me about this. He has over 40 years of experience in the oil industry, having started as a roughneck on an oil while service rig, then working his way up to sales and marketing manager for a Calgary-based oil tool company. Titus Tools under Tracy's direction. and has remained loyal to the community,

remaining invested in the many charities and charitable events that are hosted around Lloydminster. And if you're interested in finding out more about Titus Tools, head to Titus Tools.com. Appreciate all the support from these companies to help make this trip possible. And let's get on to our T-Barr-1 tale of the tape. Originally from Viking, Alberta,

he played for the Red Deer Rustlers. of the AJHL, then the Lethbridge Broncos of the WHL. He was drafted in 1978 in the 11th round and the final pick, 179th overall by the Chicago Blackhawks. He played a year in Japan, a year for the HL affiliates of the Chicago Blackhawks, the New Brunswick Hawks, he earned rookie of the year there. From 1979 to 87, he played for the Chicago Blackhawks.

In his career he had 100,000. 161 goals, 118 assists, 279 points, and 406 career games. He retired at the age of 29. And from then, he would go on to be a head coach of the Chicago Blackhawks, the San Jose Sharks, the Calgary Flames, and finally the L.A. Kings. He has two Stanley Cup titles to his name. I'm talking about Mr. Daryl Sutter. So buckle up because here we go. This is Daryl Sutter and welcome to the Sean Newman podcast.

Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast today. I'm joined by Mr. Darrell Sutter. So thank you, sir, for hopping on with me. Thanks for being at the farms. Come to Alberta. This has been exciting. You're the first stop on hopefully a good little road trip where fingers crossed go the right way

and we don't have any bad luck. Awesome. Go travel through the mountains in August. First come, you'll be beautiful, beautiful time of year to go. Yeah, Noel. And like you say, beautiful time here, you don't have to worry about the snow or weather really impeding you. You can kind of travel at well. Well, if you don't go through none of that smoke or any of the fires.

Yeah, to the south. Yeah. Yeah, that's, like I say, we'll knock on some wood here and hope that we get some good luck. My oldest brother, Gary, just moved back from, he moved to Sylvan Lake, Alberta, from, he's living in Colonna for about 20 years and moved to summer. So we've been on that shuffle a little bit, getting them back out here. Yeah. Well, the reason I wanted to sit down with you is as kids, we grew up and watch different things or were taught different things. And a lot of it comes from lessons.

I believe you guys were learned as kids. So I kind of wanted to pick your brain on your childhood and we'll see where it goes from there. But in reading about you and everything else, I always have to chuckle with the seven boys. and a single farmhouse. What was life like back then? We lived a very simple life. We grew up right in the yard, Sean, that we're in now. And there was an old house in the old farmhouse that we lived in here.

And it was a mixed farm, dadded cows, range cows. We milk cows, pigs, chickens, the whole mixed farm thing growing up. and dad and mom were married young, and mom started having babies when she was 18, so really we were all, you know, we were so close in age. There was the seven boys in 10 years that we had. So the deal with dad always was work hard, play hard.

So everybody chipped in chores and everything, and then we could do what we wanted after and played ball, played hockey, played football, everything here. when you have seven guys that close in age, quite honest, all you had to do was find one more guy, and it was four-on-four always, whatever you're playing. So somebody would come out on the school bus and stay overnight

or whatever it was. And we had a neighbor boy right here that was the same age as my oldest brother, so you could always get eight. You could always play four-on-four, whatever. And obviously, you know, from our winters and our summers that wasn't just about hockey. There was ball or... Really, we played ball.

football and football and hockey year-round somehow. I've always wondered about the barn-lopped hockey games and being the eighth guy. Was the eighth guy somebody who came once and was like, oh man, I got to take a month or two off of that? I had to assume. There was guys that came and never came back. But there's still guys that talk.

We still our best friends growing up, we're still all our best friends, and they still talk about coming out here. They still talk about coming out here, And about the hayloft, and people still come out, they'll bring their kids and take and show them the hayloft. And some of the stuff that went on, and, you know, the two ends, the big doors and the haylofts, we had them chicken wired off. That's where the nets were. And the eighth guy never, he didn't get the short end of the stick.

Our youngest brothers always did. The twins were usually the goalies or the, and we'd just play shirts and skins up there. And it was hot, like so it was, you know, it was like a sauna in the hay loft all the time. There's still, we still have our sticks and everything's still. And mum kept, everything's in a row up there. So the only time we had to quit was when the milk cows came in because there was so much noise that you had to quit and common milk cows. And then there was a dad still joked about it at the end before he died that he said keep the hayloft full this time. Because we'd always, he'd make us fill a hayloft full of.

square hay bales, and then about October, November, we'd throw all the hay bales out of the hayloft and start hockey. Do you remember, you being one of the older ones, do you remember the first time the bales got thrown out so you could play? Oh, yeah, and we'd keep enough up there just so dad, we wouldn't get in too much trouble, so basically we'd make a wall or boards or something. but so there's always going to be two or three hundred bales for sure get chucked out and we'd stack him nice along the side of the barn he wouldn't say nothing but uh that's what we did

it's funny i can just you know as a parent you come around the corner you got everything up in the hayloft it's all nice and neat and then there's 300 bales out on the side i assume your dad must And like, what heck is that about it? You know, I don't even know we ever came up with that idea that we were going to play in the hayloft, like play games up there. And it became like crazy. We always said that's why we were the skinniest guys in our teams always because you'd sweat up there. You'd just be dripping up there. It'd be so hot in the summers.

And even when we went away to play junior, we'd still play. We'd have games in the hayloft. Was there any injuries that came out of the hayloft? Once in a while we'd fall, there's trap doors in there so we could throw feed down into the stalls for the cows. And once in a while somebody would go through those plywood. We had to reinforce that plywood a few times. Just part of the game. Yeah.

Bards, that's why we still talk about. That's why we were not very good in open ice. We were good along the boards always because in the A-loft it was all boards. Body-checking allowed, obviously, then? She was wide open, no rules. of that stuff like now. The new NHL rules wouldn't have went very good up in that place. What do you think all the new NHL rules?

You know, we had to change it. We've evolved. You know, I played in coached through all those real changes and all those lockouts and all that. And, you know, in order to get different types of players, a smaller, faster player, and, you know, move some of the less gifted guys out, That's what's happened.

And now you're used to it. It's definitely changed. I think that the influx of more Europeans, obviously, and now you're into about a 40% U.S. player. Most of them come through the high school college route, so they're used to the bigger surfaces, different style of games. So the game had to make changes for that.

I wish we could still accommodate the fan a little more because the rules tend to take away from the physical part of the game and the checking part of the game. And the fans, at the end of the day, want that they like see, and they want to see speed, but they want to see contact too, and we've lost some of that. Do the setters all get drafted in today's air? Oh, easy.

Not a problem, like, Brent would still be a top, top player in the game today. Easy. I mean, we were, one thing about most of us, we could all score, and we were good around the net, and everybody's still looking for guys that can score and be good around the net. You watch playoff games right now,

and it's the first thing they talk. When they lose, they go, we've got to get more guys in front of the goalie. We've got to get around the net. The hard areas to play. We've got to get tougher in the corners. We've got to win more battles, well. that's what we did. That's why most of us were captains and we could make, we weren't afraid to

get top players to, on your teammates to challenge them to do that. What was, you know, I have three older brothers and I think we all dreamed one day being in the NHL and playing against each other and whatever else. You got to experience going to war against your brother. Were those, did you look across the ice and see whoever sitting there or was just another guy in another jersey until the game was done? No, it's a long story to talk about that, Sean. It's hard to explain to everybody that, like we grew up, we practiced to play in the NHL. That's what we did as little boys, even in the kitchen floor and the hayloft, or we played against each other hard all the time.

We were somebody on somebody's team. I was Bobby Holt, Duane was Dan McKee, Brian was Gordy Howe, Gary was Dave Keon, Brent was Bobby O'R, like it goes, that's how we played.

And when we played, that's what it meant. And so when we play against each other in the NHL, we were going to do that. Like, that's what we did. And still, when I, my memories of, playing the first time I got called up to play in the NHL, play for Chicago.

My brother was a captain of St. Louis. I got called up to play in the playoffs, and I had to play against them, our line against their line. And we had a big checking line in Chicago with Tom, Isaac, and Rich Preston myself, and Brian was the, played in the top line with Bernie Federco and Uzi Wayne Babbage. So our job was shut them down. So we played against each other all. And that was my first experience at the NHL level about, playing and the deal was to beat him that's it didn't matter once the game was over and the series

was over especially in the playoffs and you talk to your brother but it's we didn't talk to each other on the ice or any of that stuff it was game on and and like even dad would tell us like if you watch the game now guys are visiting and warm up and all that stuff if dad would have seen that he was at a game he somebody would have caught it for that like your deal was to I I remember my dad telling my twin brothers, you guys don't come home with a bloody nose or a black guy. He said, you didn't do your job. That's the way we played. My best memory about playing against my brothers for the first time was when I played the twins.

And so they were my youngest brothers, and they were both playing for Philly. And I was captain in Chicago, and they came in Chicago Stadium. And I'd left home when I was 16 to go play junior. And so then I hadn't seen my twin brother's play since. they were little boys. Like literally, probably of the farms last time I'd seen them play. And going out and standing there and looking in warm-up,

there's Ronnie and Richie with the Philadelphia Flyers. It was pretty cool, actually. I remember watched them on the bench. I had to every once saw, I go, Darrell's smart enough. Just freaking concentrate on your own game. I'd be watching them. And that was, so that's one of my best memories. Brent, he was to, I didn't even know this.

He told me this summer that his first game that he played in the NHL was an exhibition game and was in Chicago Stadium against us. He was 18 years old. And he said that he couldn't believe he was playing against me in the NHL because my favorite team growing up was Chicago and I was playing for Chicago. And he said he remember being, he was a kid seeing that. And he said he was amazed by that.

You know, it's probably hard to fathom anymore that you could have your twin brothers playing really good hockey and never see them again until they, you know, just think of all the technology we have now generally. You can watch anybody anywhere pretty much. You want to watch a novice game somewhere. You probably get one. Yeah, you can. Like they're in town. You can go there and watch your kids play when they're out of town now with that new, whatever it's called. Fast hockey or whatever.

It's unbelievable. So that's pretty cool that they roll in. In Philadelphia, Flyers jerseys of all things. I never seen them play Bantam hockey, midget hockey, or junior hockey. So did you give them a nice welcome to the NHL? Was there a couple of body checks? Oh, I'm sure there was. You know, we wouldn't have played against each other that much

the way lines match up because I'd have been on more of a veteran line and they had twins played together. And so it would have been probably a different matchup. So you got to watch them from the bench lots. What was the old Chicago arena like? It's awesome, awesome building. You had to have courage to play there because it was only 187 feet.

So you don't have much ice. Now, you know, the rinks now are 200 feet. That was 187. So there's not much room on the ice. That in the Boston Gardens were the two. intimidating places to play. They were both short rinks, and they had to have that type of player

to play in that building. Somebody that could take... You were always in traffic, put it that way. Heavy, heavy hockey? Yep. She was... She was... And the Chicago Stadium crowd was...

Like no other, when you see the... And you still see replays of the... Or the anthem. Now it's still the same. They've recaptured the anthem in the United Center the way it was. in the stadium and it's loud and it's they're they're going for the whole two and a half hours still for me it was still my favorite place to obviously is playing there and coaching there but then to go back in there too is always was fun too going back to your your childhood uh i'd read that you had no

running water an outhouse no electricity no telephone for the early stages of your childhood Yep, until I was eight years old. Eight years old. Do you remember getting electricity then? Yeah. Was that? I remember getting the, when we moved to air, we got, had the telephone.

Mom said that we were out, because that was in the old party line days. We were always listening in to all the neighbors. She'd have to tell us to, he said when we first got the running water that we'd have, we'd bath all day, us, boys, because he had a running water, you just get in the tub.

Interesting. Now you're trying to explain that to your grandchildren. If one tap doesn't work, there's something going wrong or if the late it's not working, there's something wrong. But that's the way it was. Well, you've seen a lot of different, well, in your lifetime a lot. Like, there's been a lot of giant changes. You just think sitting out on the farm right now.

And, you know, I mean, I come from a different generation, but I remember having TV two and four. the couple of channels. Hockey Night in Canada was hockey night in Canada because he had nothing else on. Saturday night, CBC was a big deal, right? Hockey came at 6.

And Sunday night, we'd tried, well, we could get games on CBC and the radio on Sunday afternoons always. You'd get an afternoon game. Like Boston always played afternoon games. Montreal would play the odd Sunday games. But we'd listen. to a game on Sunday afternoon on the radio.

So just pack around the radio and sit there and listen to it? I can remember listening to games in the afternoons and Sunday, and that was exciting. We were going to get to listen to Chicago and Montreal or something like that. Chicago was your team? Oh, yeah. I had scrapbooks that I kept when I was a kid of pictures that I drew and stuff of Black Hawk players.

Well, that's probably, you drew one of a Chicago guy and two New York Islander guys. Yeah, I still have that. It's in one's house. So that that story is true. Yeah. For the people who don't have no clue what I'm talking about. And I played with him, that guy, his name was John Marks. That's who you drew it up. Yeah.

Who were the two Islanders? Dennis Potvin and Gary Hallett. So there was, were just three of your favorite players? No, there was actually, that's when the Islanders were just sort of coming. coming into their own. Okay. And it was a story on Sports Illustrated, and they had a full picture of,

and those are the three guys, and so I painted that picture. So he painted, how old were you when you painted this? Well, probably 11, 12, somewhere. So at 11.12, he paints a picture of the Chicago Blackhawk and two Islanders, and then he ends up playing for the Blackhawks,

and two of your brothers end up playing for the islanders. They played with both those guys, and they won the four cups. I mean, that's poetic. That's crazy. And the guys that were my heroes growing up were Bobby Hall, Stan McKita, and Tony Esposito,

and I got to play with both Stan and Tony and got to know Bobby from living in Chicago. Did they live up to expectation? Yeah, they were heroes. They were still. They were stars, and rightfully so. What was, what was, you know what I got to grow up watching guys like Krakski, Lemieux. I mean, I'm still watching now, but in my heyday, it was Gregski, Lemieux, Joe Sackick,

Stevie Wise is my all-time favorite growing up, but what separated those guys back in the day? What made them special? Well, when your kids growing up, the guys that you see on TV and, look like, you know, they're doing something special. Those are the guys that stick in your mind, right? Unless they were a big fighter or the goal scores and the fans, flashy guys always stood out to you. And so we, our heroes were all guys that we'd picked out. They were stars. As I said, like Brian's, Brian was Gordy Howe and I was Bobby Hall and Brent was Bobby Orr. And that's, That's how we played.

And that's the guys we tried to emulate. So you know what I was like, when you're a kid, you went out, and I always tried to have a Bobby Hole slap shot, right? So you went outside, took 100 friggin' slap shots. Remember those? You know, you picked that guy out.

If you liked Wayne Gretzky tuck in his sweater, and guys tucked their sweaters on, that's the way you play. How many sticks do seven boys go through? We didn't have, we had lots of nails. in our sticks. Nails? Nail them back together? Yes. I mean, those are the same sticks you used in town

are the ones you used in the halof, so you had to, there's triple layers of tape and little finishing nails in there. This, well, sticks lasted you all in, that's the way it was. Once in a while, we'd get broke off sticks from the senior team in town. That's what we did. I still laugh when you see the number of sticks

that the players use now you'll have, you'll go on a road trip and they'll take a dozen sticks with them. You know, even when I started playing in NHL, you had your game stick and you kept it as long as you could because that was your favorites. You know, they all felt different than because of wood

and you'd wait, you know, you'd shave your sticks down and get them feeling just right. And the one that was the best, you always saved for the game. And you keep it just, you had your practice sticks, and you had your backup sticks. You see, now, even guys still emulate a little bit, you look on it. When the TV shows the sticks, they'll have, like, number two, number three, or number four.

That's the order they want their stick, right, when they break them. And that still happens. That's sort of a good luck or a thing, right? Having your favorite stick, or the way you put your skates on or pull your socks on. So you remember if you didn't score for a while, then you switched it up a little bit or something like that. You said shaved your sticks. You shaved the wood sticks down?

Yeah, the heels or the toes. They all didn't come, even though you had a pattern, they didn't come quite the same, and you could shave a little bit off your heel, get a little weight off it. Did lots of guys. I started shaving their shafts, or their grip on top,

just to get, you know, because they didn't come the same. Some were, then there's, the sticks were made out of straight ash. They weren't composite or compressed wood. They were straight ash. They were basically cut out of one single tree that was.

And then they fit the blade into that single shaft. So you had to do a lot of shaving. And that was about the time when I turned pro. They started using torches to curve. And actually, that's where it started. It was in Chicago with Stan and Bobby. The curved stick. They'd put them in the, they'd put them in the,

hot water and then pull them under the door and lift them to curve them and leave them there, right? Nobody had seen that before. Yeah. That's the big curves. You look at pictures, them guys, they had curves that were, the big thing was there was a time when you could put a quarter under a curve. You set your blade on and put a quarter under that meant you had an inch, one inch curve. And the coaches are getting out of you because then they'd say you don't have a backhand or you couldn't puck and roll off your stick. We'd still cheat and try and do it.

And it became a dime. That's how they measured it legally. When they became, they started using a skate lace from heel to toe and then slide a dime under there. And if the dime went through without touching that lace, that was an illegal stick. That's how they first started measuring illegal sticks.

Was Darrell Setter an illegal stick? No, no. I had just a little, bit of a curve, but I didn't like it. I didn't like it on the board seven, the way my blade was. Trying to pick a puck up off the board. I just never got the good feel for a big curve. I liked being able to kind of do both. You mentioned the way you put your socks on, good luck charms, that kind of thing. Did you have a routine then before games? Left or right all the time. Left or right. Do you remember how you came up with that? No, I don't know. It was just always left right.

go up the left side and then up the right side. You know, you talk about your sticks and shaving them and having one stick and finishing nails and stuff like that. You remember the thought that went through your brain when you were like, I can have more than X amount of sticks? Yeah, and when I think about that, it was because my brother Brian played in St. Louis and the Blackhawks in St. Louis were on a different,

in terms of we had wealthy owners and they were always going through owners or in receivership or something and they were always short of stuff and I'd always tell our trainers because Brian and I were both left shots and we used the very same, we had the same patterns, everything

and I'd always tell the trainers throw a couple, get one of my sticks, take an extra one so they'd give it to Brian and say they were always short of stuff. So even in the NHL, like if you went to play one game, I'd always have three sticks. But if we go to St. Louis, I'd put four in

and see if they can sneak one over to, so Brian could have another stick. Isn't that crazy to think of? Even skates then. We were CCM skates. Back then, the old tacks. Remember the old tacks? Well, there was a time when they were made out of kangaroo.

Kangaroo? Yeah. Everybody thinks it was cowie, but it was kangaroo. And so if you were on that kind of, of the top end of the CCM structure, they'd make sure you got your seven and a half skates, kangaroo skates, the width you wanted, whether it was D, C, whatever, they had all these different measurements for your toes and all that. And there was a lot of guys that only would wear kangaroos, and Brian and I were two of them. And when they outlawed the

kangaroos to, it was something to do with importing kangaroo skin. We still had boxes, you know, they, the factory still had boxes of skates that were, they would say they're all Sutter, Brian Sutter, like that, like the guys, and so we got them all, but then when Brian would wear skates out there as same as mine or I wear mine out, we made sure we could get each other's skates still. It was pretty cool. Whoever thought the outlawing of kangaroo would affect the setters? Yeah, that's a true story.

They were nice because you even have to break in. They were like wearing hush puppies. Worst parts you got hit in those old skates, and you get hit in the toe or the feet. It was just like having a pair of socks on because, oh, it would hurt. Who had the hardest shot back then? Who was the guy here like, I don't want to step in front of that? Or was there a guy or two like that?

Yep. Probably when I was starting, there was a player named Reed Larson. Played Detroit and Minnesota, and he was a big right-handed defenseman. He had a great shot. Gie Lafleur was. Lafleur? Canon? Oh, yeah.

Wicked shot. And I know, because he was the right-wing and I was a left-winger, and I had to check him lots. back then who was the toughest guy to check who was the toughest guy to make sure stayed off the score sheet he was probably being a right winger and in those days you checked your position so i played left wing he was right wing that was your guy right and you turn him over to the defenseman once in a while and then you had the right d was your coverage so that's and that was the whole ice not like now where they'd just do it in zone or they have a trap in the neutral or whatever.

It was you did that the whole, you did it 200 feet. And that was your coverage. That's why when you hear those stories about, oh, somebody checked Gordy Howe. Well, that meant they just followed them around the ice. When they had the puck, he stayed with him. If he was right, he didn't matter where he stayed with it. That was.

Man to man. It was basically that's how the NHL played then. If you couldn't play that way, then you couldn't play in the NHL. And that's why the clutching, grabbing, and stuff like that was in vogue because that's how you had to play. Because most guys were either bigger or faster or something, the use of you had to make it even. And the stick made it even. You mentioned you left home at 16. Yep.

To go playing Red Deer. Yeah. Looking back then, do you remember, I think for any hockey player, probably any, I should say, any, I should say, any, athlete, any person who leaves home. Everybody has mixed feelings about moving on from underneath the parents' wings, so to speak. What was it like moving to Red Deer for you? Well, Brian had been there, and then obviously going to Billet families, and Brian had lived at the, we all went through those same families, us boys as we went, so that made it easier. But you all stayed at the same billet house? Yeah. Who were the Billet parents?

And Reddard was a family called the Tychole family, and the Lethbridge was the Ross family. And we became really, you know, they became like grandparents to our grandchildren. In fact, Margross and the family who lived with in Lethbridge, she has her 90th birthday this week. So we're all still pretty connected to that. But that was probably made it a little bit easier for us. But I think in those days when you went, so Red Deer then was, we would be leaving this weekend. So the long weekend in September, you'd go to training camp.

And if you made the team, then you started school and you stayed there. And then you didn't come home until Christmas. It's not like nowadays where you can just drive to Reddue, no problem, two hour, two and a half hours, and you had cell phones and all that. We didn't have cars. we didn't, obviously didn't have cell phone. So we'd phone home Sunday nights to the farm. We'd phone collect because Sunday night after six,

it was free, you can call. And back in those days, so that's when we were allowed to call home and talk to mom and dad and your brother. So that, and they very seldom could come to games the way it worked. So you didn't really, you were, you left in September,

and you came home for a week of December, and you went back, and came home in school was out. Bring back fond memories. I mean, I'm definitely a lot younger, but when I went out to Ontario, I had to call, I got a phone card, and that's how we called home.

And, well, I mean, that's what you could afford, and that's what your parents could afford. That's right. And that was a big difference now, because you can FaceTime. You can do whatever you want. No, you can be on the other side of the world

and FaceTime right now, and it's like you have. haven't even laughed. Doing this podcast has been that. I've been able to, with everything that happened with COVID, we stopped doing face-to-face for a long time. And I've zoomed meeting a guy who was sitting over in Indonesia, a girl in Italy, right?

It's just the world is small now with technology. And back then, kids, you and I have a hard time remember in a time when you couldn't just drive to red deer to go watch. Yeah. And mom and dad didn't get to go to a lot of games either because they were milk of cows and chores and You know they had one truck in an old car and that's the way it worked is We were going to pursue what we wanted to do and they were they backed us and were behind us and And that's what it worked heck when I went to red deer even if we would have had a vehicle you couldn't afford to drive home anyway because they paid you

I get seven dollars if you won a game, five if you tied, and three if you lost. So basically what you did was the team paid for your room and board, and then it was $300 a month the families would get, and we'd get obviously school, and then win-tie loss, 753. How many games you play in here? Probably 70. So was seven bucks a game decent?

If you won. Like was that good money? Poor, I thought that was freaking playing. That's, you know, who knows, that's what the rules were. And I don't know what you were getting as a, you know, we were 16 getting that. I don't know what the, if the 18s and 19-year-olds were getting a little more. I think that I played in Lethbridge. I think we were getting like, they didn't pay you by the wins and lost.

they paid you by the month. And obviously, your room board was paid. And I think I got $300. What did you think of the jump to the W.HL? Again, it was transition. Brian had been there. I originally, I was going to go to college. Played Elbrid Jr. and then go to college.

And so I only played one year a major junior, where my brothers all played. twins and Brent went twins when I was 15 year old straight year and then they played someone played four years

major junior so I only really played the one year but for me it was what were you going to take in college play hockey you know I'm not really sure what I was going to take in school I had several

places like I was a good student So I could have went to several. I could have went to Princeton, Harvard, all the big division ones, Denver, Michigan, Michigan Tech. Did you take any, did you go see any of these schools? Yeah, and then, and then you, now I think they have a restriction. You can only visit three, I believe, and there's only certain times of the year. But then it was wide open.

You could go to, they'd take you in. So did you fly down and go for a huge road trip? Yeah, they'd take you on a weekend. They'd work around your schedule, and they'd take you, and I did some in the summer, though, too. Which one stuck out to you? I'd signed a letter of intent at Michigan Tech, and I think it stuck out because I'd went in the winter,

and they were playing games there, and it was, they were playing, actually they were playing North Dakota at the time. I remember it vividly when I was there, and they played a Friday, Saturday night, and I just thought the crowd was awesome. And it was hockey. It was hockey. It was a hockey school. And that's probably what drew me there the most.

All my brothers could have went to, back then there was, especially when you went to play for the Redder wrestlers, they were a well-known program. And there was a lot of recruiting from NCAA colleges. and we all could have went some places. But mom really wanted me to go to college. I remember that. She wanted one of her kids to go to school. And she was disappointed when I signed that letter of intent to go, and then at the end I followed Brian to Lethbridge.

That's a long time ago. And you always look back and wonder if I wouldn't have made the NHL because I was, my brothers were all, Brian was the only one that was a second round pick, all my other four were all high first round picks. So if I wouldn't have made it, I was the only one that ever played in the minors of my brothers until I guess Ronnie played a little bit later

in his career in Richie a little bit later, but they all stepped right in. They went right from major junior to the NHL. Do you remember your draft? year because you yeah very good where did you go to the NHL draft no then you that then I don't know if anybody went to draft Sean I was I had a job that summer and actually the day of the draft I was trawling cement out of that for a farmer and the house the farmer's wife came out of the house and said there you have a phone call

was just landlines. So they must have called mom and dads here, and then mom transferred them to the Erickson's farm. And she said, Bob Yor is on the phone. I said, yeah, right, Alan. Leave me alone. It's like 90 above here. But anyway, so I mean, it was Bobby O'R.

And then Bob Yor was where he'd got traded from Boston to Chicago at the end of his career. And they must have him phoning the guys they drafted that day. So that's my memory of being drafted. So did you go pick up the phone? Yeah, I talked to Bobbue. It was pretty cool. Trawling Smith and Bobbiard calls.

But that's my memory of draft day. So did you go have a few Sassparillas to at least celebrate? I can't remember. I imagine we had to finish Trawling Smith. That's my memory of draft. I don't remember nothing about it. Being drafted by your boyhood team, though, must have been super cool. Yep.

You know, you have a, you don't take the typical route to getting to the NHL because you get drafted, but then you go to Japan. What was in the choice to go to Japan? And how, like, of all the avenues, why Japan? Then at that time, if you weren't a very few guys other than 20 guys in the NHL team and 20 guys in their farm team had contracts. everybody else was invited to training camp. And because I was such a late round pick, I got a letter from the Chicago Blackhawks inviting me to training camp

and without a contract offer. So nobody, I had nobody's input or then you didn't have an agent or anything like that now. I just said, I'm not going. And so I had to find somewhere else to go. And our owners in Lethbridge, Japanese and they had contacts in Japan and they'd sent two guys a year before actually Willie Dijardin and another player from Lathbridge named Doug Johnson they'd both

went to Japan and they paid I so remember they gave me $10,000 cash which was a lot of money it was more than I could have made playing in the minors at that time and and then they give you your free living like a free apartment so I went and I went till February and I came back in February the scout from Chicago that had drafted me knew when I was coming home and he called the farm here and asked if I wanted to go on a tryout to Flint, Michigan, which was like Chicago's third team. At that time they had it was Chicago Blackhawks, the Dallas Blackhawks and the Flint,

general's were their teams and he asked if I wanted to go to Flint on a trial and I remember I was sitting in the grain elevator biking that that day and be asked one of my friends who was the elevator agent and so I said what do you think county should I go or he goes yeah go to Flint play some games why not so they flew me to Flint and they Little did I know when I got there. It was there. They were in the playoffs, and they were down. It was a three out of five series.

They were down two nothing. So I played one game. They lost. So they were out. And then they asked me instead of going there, if I wanted to go to, by then they'd moved their farm team to Moncton. In New Brunswick?

Yeah, the American League team. And they asked if I wanted to go to Moncton for a trout. And I said, well, I'm halfway there now. So I went to Moncton. And the coach there was, a man named Eddie Johnson. He was a goalie. Him achievers were the goalies when Boston won the cups,

always. And Eddie and my brother Brian had played together in St. Louis. So Eddie took care of me, basically. He was the coach. And at the end of the year, and I had a good run there, and he played me lots. And he was the man actually who got the contract

to Chicago Blackhlands. And next year he became coached of the black guys. So I played that part of the end of the year, like February to May in Moncton, and then he got me a contract that summer, again before agents and all that. So they just, I signed a contract in a motel at the airport in Niskew. And I played that whole year after some. signing in the American League. Played one year there, and then I played in Chicago.

I got to take you back to Japan because you fly over to Japan. What was playing, and I'm going to torture this? Was it Iowa Kura? Is that where you play? Yeah, that was actually, the name of that team was owned by, it was a milk company,

like a dairy milk and cream bottle. What was playing, I'm fascinated, in Japan or hockey around the world in different places. Was it the buildings full? Was it crazy fans? Was it fun? Was it just a surreal experience?

They only played in two cities. They played in the Olympic Stadium that was in Sapporo, which was built for the Olympics in 73. So it was a state-of-the-yard facility. National Stadium and the National Stadium in Tokyo. So there was like playing in, it would be like playing in buildings in Edmonton, Calgary, even though that's not where you're,

there was only two teams in those cities. The other team, like we lived, I was about 80 miles from, in a little town from Sapporo. So you practiced all week, and it's the same as when you played in Europe, you did your games, and I can't remember if there were two, you know, every two weeks, all the teams would go to one place and you'd play everybody.

Then you'd go home and train for two weeks, and you'd go to Tokyo, so you'd play there. is how it worked. It was, it's, it's very similar to the way the leagues are run in Europe now. And then there was, there was an import rule when I was there. There, there was a handful of Canadians and a handful of Russians playing there. Just a different, uh, did you enjoy your time in Japan? You know, I was young, I'd just turned, I'd just turned 20 when I went. I think I left on my 20th birthday. So everybody always asked that question, Sean, and I think I did. I mean, we were a bunch of young guys. I got to know the culture, and then for the first, you know,

I had to learn to speak it because otherwise you were alienated. Like I found, I still tell people that year I lived there in the city. I lived in a city called Tamukkami. But I was there six months. I found two people that spoke English in six months, and they were missionaries from New Zealand. So, you know what, you either grow up or go home, one of the two. So I probably had lots of growing up to do and did it in the United States. Did you learn some Japanese then? Yeah, I still recognize I can still pick up what they're talking about. Like the main, you know, If I hear somebody talking at another table, I know what they're different. I know it's Japanese.

I can pick up what they're talking about still. And I'll once in a while say something to somebody in Japanese that will look at you. I still remember it. I think it's no different than learning something when you're young. It sticks with you. What's maybe one of the, when you went over there, I'm sure as a young guy, you have ideas or been told stories or X, Y, Z.

one of the things when you got there, whether it's Japanese culture or the people in general, was there anything that stuck out to you? Like, geez, didn't see that coming. No, just, it still sticks to my mind, just the respect they had for their elders and for each other, even in the team's standpoint from the young players, the old players, the respect that was there, the respect from the players, the coaches, the families were so respectful of each other in terms of the kids and the mom and the dad and the grandparents it was it was a totally it was some of it was fascinating sometimes to watch and learn and then their respect for for their religion whether it was whether they were Christians or Buddhists or whatever you know those were

the two there but the respect they had for their church or there was like it was it was part of their culture it was fun learning once I adapted to you know probably the first, I'm going to say probably the first month it was just hockey, like just hockey, that's what you wanted to, you just wanted to play hockey, but then you had to, you wanted to see more and learn more. And I lived right on a port city, so I'd watch for, I got to learn the flags that were coming in, the big ships, because then there might be like American flag or a Philippine, I got to know them because they'd speak English and, you know, and, you know, and And I figured out how to get on the boats and get in their libraries

and get books and newspapers and things like that. That's what you did. So you'd get on the boat to get a new book? You could get meet the sailors and they'd get you on the ship. And you'd get in the libraries. Because most of those guys run, they'd be six months out in a boot. And so they needed stuff to do too. So they'd get like their three-a-day, three-four-day furlough

and where they dock and then so that's how you meet it and be going to find out where the places they'd hang out and stuff like that and then that's awesome did you learn that by yourself or was there a guy that somebody who passed that along no i was on my own i always think it's interesting when you're in a culture where you can't converse with them right you're uh in family they can't understand me, but they couldn't really converse back. Those young guys in the team, those Sean, they wanted to learn English. There was guys my age, and they never got to play much.

They were the kids on the team, so they'd be, they wouldn't even dress all the time. Or they'd sit on the bench, so I'll get one shift. You can dress like 30 guys. But, so you spent a lot, and they all live together. Team lived together. They didn't live with their families or nothing. The team lived in a great big, big. boarding house and they had their own practices so they was like very very tight and very they were

very careful what they could do and what they couldn't do so you know there's always two or three hours every day where they want to learn English you want to learn Japanese so you'd just sit around a tail just like this and you'd start and they'd taken it'd be like us taking French when we were kids they'd taken English in school a little bit so they could say hello how are you like that and then you'd get talking and show them and that's how you start and pretty soon you can where you'd go so they had you live with the entire team no i didn't have to but the whole team lived the players all lived together they'd get they'd get when you'd get to go see their families like once a month and the married guys would get going to see their wives once in a while the

young guys going to see their mom wherever they're from because they were from all over Japan it was It wasn't just like it was a club team. And the deal those guys had was they worked year-round. When there wasn't hockey, they worked for the club. So they had to go out and work in the dairy or whatever it was, right? That was theirs. We had two teams in our city. One was named after the milk company and one was named after the paper and pulp company.

And we'd see each other lots, but that's what they did. that's what we did. And they were big players were Russian guys. And so you'd see the bots in the city. He was kind of... Did you have to work at all

for the company? No. No. No. No. I just had to perform. They'd give you... Even though it was

December 1st, they sent $10,000 back to the Treasury branch in Viking. That was my salary for the year. But then based on performance, they had envelopes. And if you had a good tournament, whatever, I didn't know this happened. The guy in the shirt and tie an old guy had come along, and he'd have an envelope,

and he'd give it to me. I didn't know what it was, right, and was stuffed with money. And that's... Your bonus. Yeah, for a playing game. So if you played good, wherever you work, every couple weeks, and they'd come in, they'd just give you this envelope, not saying, I'll just give you that. Crazy. And then there's some great stories about that because a yen, there was a $10,000 bill. It was 10,000 yen. And the first time I got one of these envelopes had like 200,000 yen. And it was like, holy, it's like, go buy a condo or something. I still remember 20 years old and 10,000, and when I figured out it was $60, 10, like that's, that was US dollars, what it was worth 10,000 yen.

So I'd save my 10,000 yen's. But that lost, my bonus money, I never touched the salary. That stayed in the bank. And when we got married, we used that 10,000 yen to buy our first old farm yard, which is where your sister lives. Really?

Yeah. I did have to chuckle today. Oh, this morning I was up early, having a copy and whatever and I walked in a watch an old Sutter documentary one they did back when I was a while back and you were being filmed in the house I was sitting in when I was like yeah this is kind of surreal that house we picked away that's when I was playing in Chicago and we did it over we could afford to do it over three years so we dug the hole in the basement one year and then the next then we came home and had the guy cut logs for us and we set the logs up and then the next year

We came home and put the roof on. And the next year we came home, moved in. Must have been a proud moment when you finally got in there. Well, we needed the house. What were you doing before that then when you'd come home? There was an old, old farmhouse in that yard. Right by where the well, the pump house is there. That's where the house was.

We lived in it. Guys would laugh at me from Chicago because I go, where do you live? I go, you know, because I'd say, well, we don't have a phone. We don't have a TV. I go, what do you do? When you were training, what was training like in the summertime for you? We'd run later on in the summer. We'd run the fence lines.

But most of it was farm work. So instead of having a track, you'd run the fence line. You and the brothers? Yeah, it depends. My wife would run with me later when we were married. But when we were younger, us brothers, we'd run in work boots. Out in the fields. Running work boots?

It's good for you. Worked for us. Well, you think a big old work boot by the time you got something off, we used to measure our strengthening by how far we could throw a hay bale or how high you could lift something. That's what we did. And we never had a problem when we went to training count. The only problem we had later on is our careers went on.

By then, you know, guys were going to gym and, like, Brent, my brother built his own room. You know, that's what guys were doing. But the only problem we had later in the careers because usually we were rehabbing injuries when we came home. And that was the hardest part was rehab. You've had some pretty horrendous injuries in your time. Yeah, I had enough of them.

That's probably the thing I regret most of my career was, well, not probably it is, the thing that I couldn't have played longer and that I, you know, if you had today's technology, I could have played longer and I would have got the proper therapy and rehab. Then you just tried to get back sooner or play through it and all that and made matters worse for sure. That's probably why I, for sure, how I got into coaching. I was lucky to play, never traded, play my whole career in one place.

And then basically the Wirtz family took care of me. They offered me to stay there and coach. And then I didn't, I was assistant coach the first year after I was done playing. And I really didn't like it. And they said, well, go coach the farm team then. And so I went and did that for two years. We went to Saginaw, Michigan, and Indianapolis. and then we went back to Chicago. You didn't like being an assistant coach? You know, I'm not sure that I didn't like being an assistant coach, I didn't like not playing.

I didn't like standing behind the bench as a 29-year-old, and your friends were playing, and I wasn't. So it was probably one of those. It was tough. It was probably one of those frustrating things, more than anything. And I was lucky the guys I was, my coached, that I was with were, when I was hurt my last year as a player, my coaches were Roger Nielsen and Bob Pulford, who were two very respected talk guys. And so I was lucky to work with them for the year.

And that probably impacted me as much as anything because I didn't have, anybody who says, well, I want to be a coach, you're going to be a coach, they're full of it. They're not telling the truth. It's something that's got to be a natural thing, something you love. and you've got to give up a lot to do it. And I wasn't committed to ever staying and being a coach. I did it because I had a young family and we didn't make any money as a player and I needed a job.

And you ended up being a pretty dang good coach. Well, I was lucky I did it for a long time and I worked for great owners. It's the biggest thing about being a top head coach now is working for good ownership groups that understand what it takes to be successful. They might not did it at that sport level, but the reason that the best owners in the HL are winners

is because they've been very successful in what they do, and they understand it. So over your career, yeah, I mean, you win two cups with the coaching side of it, but in a heartbeat you would have taken playing, over coaching any day of the week? Best job, by far, is playing. Is playing.

Toughest job is the head coach. I've heard you, or I think I read that you said coaching is the worst position in the organization. Head coaching. Head coaching. Yeah. Staffs are so big now that there's, you know, you've got six or seven guys in your coaching staff for the most part now. But the head coach now is, it's a really tough job. and you've got to have a really good staff

and you have to have total trust from your management team and from your ownership team because you've got to stay tight and you've got to stay close. And I know that, you know, I went to finals four times with three different teams. So you learn just much by losing in the finals

as you do by winning in the finals. And, you know, it was one of the reasons I went to, we went to Los Angeles. We lost in game seven in Calgary, and I lost in four in Chicago to Pittsburgh. So it's sort of, when you lose in the finals, you want to get back to the finals. You've learned just as much.

So that's the way it works. And most, I was very fortunate most people, as players or coaches, never get that opportunity. Or they never understand it or never figure it out. and the sacrifice and the commitment that's made and what you have to do in our twin championships. What did you learn then going through Chicago and Calgary? Well, Chicago obviously was different

because we basically grew up there as a family and as a player. And you go from single, married, parent, captain, salary change, you grow up a lot through your career. And then to get to coach and stay there, you know, we would have, we basically lived there there for 16 years and we probably would have, we would have still been there. We made a family decision to come home when Chris was born. That was our, Chicago was our team.

We were going to stay there forever, right? there would probably always be some sort of a job there for me. So when Chris was born, we decided we'd bring Chris home and then we'd stayed home for two years. And so it wasn't just what I learned from Chicago. That was different. That was a life thing. Calgary in between Calgary. We'd met to San Jose.

We'd stayed home two years and I went to San Jose. And I worked in building a team there with the owner and the management. We had a good hockey club, and we were there six years. And then coming to Calgary, my family stayed, and it sounds like the kids were in school, so I live by myself in Calgary for that year, the first year. And that's not, I tell people that now, don't go without your family.

Don't do that. That was tough. Well, just you're, For somebody like me, you just go to the rink and stay at the rink. And you can wear yourself out doing that. You have to learn to branch out and find different things to do. But going to Calgary for us was awesome because it was basically coming back to Alberta. Once Chris was done school, or our daughter was done school in San Jose.

And Brett went away to play junior then. coming back to Alberta was unbelievable and to be able to build and put together a good team that had went from being a rough, rough place for a few years to be in one of the top teams was pretty cool. And we always say if we had to live in a city in Canada again, there would be no question we didn't live in Calgary. You know, die-hard.

their fan here. But that team with the Ginla and that group of characters, that was a fun team to watch. They were a character team. It was one of the things we talked about when I went there, talked because our owners were awes. They were Alberta, Saskatchewan, proud guys, Doc Seaman, Harley Hotschk just were awesome, awesome men. And Bud McKig were, they were awesome owners. And they just wanted to put a respectful team on the ice.

and they were on the edge of losing the franchise, selling the franchise. And it's one of the things we talked about when they first talked to. I said, you know, we have to get more west. We have to start putting the fans, give them something to cheer about again. And without being able to do it through free agency,

there was a small market team, without be able to do it that way by attracting stars or trading for stars. You couldn't do it. So our first thing was, we're going to get Western Canadians, first off. We're going to create a culture here with people. And that's what we did, and it took off from there.

And they've thrived on that philosophy. They were great owners to work for heads. I always said. Doc Seaman and Harley Hotchkis were unbelievable men, and they did a lot not just for hockey in Calgary. They did it for hockey in Canada. They were the backers of hockey Canada, building these small town rinks all over and they were awesome people.

It's my biggest regret when we lost in Tampa Bay. I wanted to win a cup for them guys. They were in their 80s. I wanted them to win them to win another one. I'm feeling so bad losing in game seven and I felt for them more than anybody else. What did you learn from, you imagine? Every trip to the finals taught you something new. What did losing game seven with the flames teacher?

Well, it was 2-1. It tells you how close was. It's the lowest scoring game in the history of Stanley Cup the series was. I think we outscored Tampa Bay. It's like 12-10 in seven games, and they won it. And it just tells you out, and we would, as we talked about earlier,

you're running out of ammo as you go along because we were playing long series, and we were the plumbers and the pluggers and you know other than Jerome and Kipper we didn't it was not a star power team it was just based on everybody sucking it up every day and playing through injury and we basically when you did it on paper we shouldn't have Tampa Calgary shouldn't have been the final yeah yeah so you know we beat we knocked that year what we learned by losing game seven we knocked off everybody that Vancouver took us lightly in the first round. They were the number

one team in the league and they had seven or eight stars and they shouldn't have taken us lightly. And then we played, I forget the order of San Jose or Detroit. Detroit was that star-studded older team, all the stars and we knew we had to, then the rules could work for it. You could check guys to death, make them not want to play. seven games they didn't they only wanted to play five or six that's what it works it's what I love about hockey in the playoffs yeah you see the media guys there are the you know the the panels discussed the first round and all these guys got no chance and I always laugh I'm like all you got to do is get into the dance once you're in

there man that first round even even more so now Sean just because the way everything is set up with the way the regular season is with the way this who you know how many games you play there should be more division games and they just haven't been able to you know they haven't able to do that and then with the wild cards way there now you get in it's wide open and you even look this year with the way it's you know it'll never be like this again hopefully but uh you look at teams that pop in and make a upset somebody look at a team like Montreal or Montreal, you know, these teams, the three older, the original six teams that got in, Montreal, Chicago Rangers, wouldn't have been playoff teams. And they got into the play in and knocked somebody out, right?

So, it's very, very close. Salary cap has controlled a lot of it now. And you look at the teams that are going to lose top players this year because the salary cap, they're not going to be able to keep them. So these guys are going to move around and be hired guns. It just tells the importance of the younger guys coming in and because they're on entry-level deals and fitting in. And you look at the kids that are playing now and how good they are,

but there was a time when they would have done their two or three years in the American League for sure. Just the way it works. You mentioned hopefully it goes back to, I assume, you're 16 teams in the playoffs. Do you not like the play-ins then? I think 16 is that's over half your league, or it's going to be half-year league.

That's enough to get in. I mean, baseball's going to that now too. But when you look at how your divisions are split up, that's the tough part, right? The east-west part of it. because you can say whichever side you're on, you can say there's 10 teams in the East that are better than six teams in the West or whichever way you want, but you can't all get in.

So, and then the way the games played are, you know, when you look at our division out here with them in Calgary, Vancouver, three California teams in Arizona, Vegas. Well, you only play them four. you play one team, I believe, five times. The other one's four. Well, it's not enough. In the old days, when you played in your division, you played them eight to ten times.

And that's where you found out who's going to make the playoffs. The play-in was the regular season. Did you like playing somebody eight to ten times? No, that's part of the deal. I mean, you get 17,000 people in a building, wanting to kill Minnesota North Stars or St. Louis Blues. That's the fun part. You go into places now where there's 8,000 people at a game,

and you go, is there a game tonight? And that's happening. You think part of the, you know, I bring it back to the Oilers. If the Oilers played the planes 10 times in here, that'd be good for Alberta. Yeah. Players don't get, aren't crazy about it,

but you get, you build rivalries. That way everybody goes, well it's a rivalry. It's only a rivalry if you play each other a lot, it's to beat the hell out of each other. If one team is always better than the other one. Yeah, it's not a rivalry. That's where it's built.

It's not just a playoff rivalry. It starts, and it's the guys talk about it, and the teams sell that, too, which they have to. It's the best part. The rivalry is still the best part, because it's hard to play. It's hard for the players to play. play a game every other day in travel. It's hard. They need different things to spur them on or to

motivate them. Back in the day, who was the rivalry team you guys had? Who was Chicago's team that you played? Probably St. Louis, because it was a 300 mile. It'd be like Evan Calgary. Yeah. So go and play. And there was good, and they were good, you know, St. Louis had good teams. And then that Norsevision also So the Leafs ran it. So the Leafs, even though they weren't a very good team then, it was a rivalry just because it was two original six teams in a division. And so there was a long-standing rivalry, ownership, rivalry, management rivalry. There was a long, and it went way deeper than the player.

So that was a rivalry. When you say way deeper than the player, what do you mean? Well, just that the fans don't like each other. And the old owners, you know, they've been. They've went through it, you know, those two teams that went through original six. I mean, so there's, you think about it, there's only 120 players, and most of them are Canadians that get to play on those six teams. So there's a fight over players every summer.

And, you know, like, there's lots more to it than just the players looking like it was a, once in a while there was a brawl or something. There was a lot more to it than that. There was a lot on the line. It's different. Because now you have 30, we'll have what, 31? or 32 teams once with Seattle. And it's hard to get to know all the players as a fan.

Heck, we do our pools. And a lot of the guys that come and we do the pool with, they don't know the players, which you used to know them all. So you have to have different ways of doing pools now, too. Yeah, well, 32 teams is a lot. Yeah. Well, you're going to go to 750. players, which, you know, everybody says it dilutes the talent pool, but we're taking now from

all over the world. You know, there was a time when we only had, there was a handful of Swedish players in the league, there was a handful of Russians, only, there was fewer Americans, and there was Swedish players. It's changed a lot. When you were on road trips, did you have a seatmate or a roommate? Yep. I had the same roommate as a player for six years. And who was that? It was Tommy Lysiak, and Tommy was from High Prairie, Alberta.

Okay. He was a really good player. He played Junior in Medicine Hat. Him and Lany McDonald were the same draft year. They were teammates in junior, and then both were. really good NHL players. He was my centerman. He's probably why I got to play in the league so young

because he was such a good player. And he wanted me to play with him. So it's probably a big reason why I got to play is a play on a good line for a long time. He's a, in today's game, he'd be a Hall of Famer. He should be one. Today's game, he'd be a top, top player. He's a player like, he's just a top all-round guy.

He'd be like Bergeron or something like that. That's the kind of player he was. He's one of the last guys not to wear a helmet too. You always tell the guys if they touch me, you'd take a stick and hit over their head. I knew that was safe. You tell guys to warm up, don't touch me. You'll get this right over your head.

Good deal for me. Did you play without a helmet then? No, I could have. I was the last age. that year, that draft, was the last, we just had to sign a waiver. And then there was guys' maids that didn't, like, LC card. That was one of the last ones.

There was only a handful. So if we didn't want to wear a helmet, I just had to sign a waiver not to wear one. After that year, everybody had to wear one. How about goal tend to grow up playing where goalies weren't wearing helmets? Nope. So goalies always had? Well, no, there was masks.

Or masks, sorry? Yeah, no. Everybody had a mask, but. time I, yeah. But then they were just wearing the old jock plant with the straps in the back. That was one of the things you wanted to do and if the goalie ever got into,

if there was a line brawl or anything, you always wanted to grab the goalie's mask and give them the snap, give them what of those? You'd reach in the file. Like they were in Vancouver one night, Tiger Williams was playing for Vancouver and we were in a big schmaws down in the ice.

And Tiger being Tiger, he'd resend it Tony and grabbed his mask and give him the old snap. Everybody thought it was pretty funny, actually. It was different than I can never. You talked about that stuff with equipment, and then there was guys who wore hair pieces under their helmets and stuff. So you're always trying to get their helmets off to get their ripped their hairpiece off. You're talking to a toupee? Yeah, they had to look good. We always knew who they were.

There was a handful of them in the league and you try and get their toupee. Did you ever get a toupee? No, hopefully they don't have. Oh, did I get one? Nope, but I seen one on the ice. I didn't get it. He was a good player that guy, too.

You know, I pretty much bug every. guy now. In senior hockey, there's certain nights you play guilty. You go have a late night with the boys when it's a back-to-backer. I was curious on the way over if Mr. Sutter ever had in the NHL a night where he played guilty

if that was such a thing back then where you went and had a few beers too many and... Probably, especially after if you'd claims to playoff spot. For sure. I was right on the edge of that the older group of guys

that you know their training was that's what they did was drink beer and you know that's what they did that was part of their deal but I definitely seen guys like that

for sure but I was also in the time where there wasn't a you know I was lucky I played in the team and there wasn't a drug problem or anything like that. And I was the captain of the team also, so I had to make sure I was on top of all that stuff all the time.

Was there anyone through your career that kind of mentored you? Did you have a mentor? Somebody who kind of showed you the ropes? Yeah, I think for sure Tommy, because I was a young guy, and he was a star. They were a top player in the league, and he was my roommate. And then for sure watching Tony, Esposito. for sure.

He was all the same goalie, and great goalie, just to watch and practice and train. And even though he was a guy who, you know, he loved life, he did everything off the ice that he could, but he was a great pro. That's why he played a long time,

and that's why he had the numbers he did. Well, we're going to go into the final five. I have a segment to end off each episode. It's a crude master final five, five questions. Short as long as we want to go, it's not a quick thing by any stretch of imagination. But shout out to Heath and Tracy McDonald for, they've been supporters of the podcast since I started it out. So if you could sit down with one person like this to pick their brain, dead or alive,

doesn't have to be hockey, can be just anything. Who would you want to sit down with? John Kennedy. JFK. Really? Yeah. Why JFK? I was a boy when he became president

so I was like five or six or seven years old he died in 60, he shot in 63 but he was just somebody that was like a wasn't a sports hockey player but he was somebody that I admired and amulated and that's pretty crazy isn't a small town farm kid out in the middle of Alberta, knows about JFK. I did lots after he, when I was a young boy and Teager,

and I did a lot of stories and wrote about him and read a lot of books about him. And I've studied lots about him and his family. Just somebody that always stuck out. You know, what would be one question you'd ask him? Well, what he was doing in that car in Dallas. I thought, you'd think about it. Back, and then, too, he knew he was in, you know, he was a target because of the racial thing that was going on in the U.S. and the Cuban issue and for him to ride in that car in that street.

And I went and walked along there and tried to figure out, too, like, what he was doing and where it was from. As a young man like that, I saw he was a powerful guy. I liked everything about them. I'd read, actually, now I'm thinking about it, that growing up you had three heroes, your parents, JFK and John Wayne. Yeah, John Wayne's big, if you go into Chris's room in our house, there's John Wayne's an idol.

He's got them all over his wall. John Wade was just, you know, our kids growing up. He was the cowboy that always won, so. If you could take any two line mates, who would you put on your line? I mean, today's game or, well, if in today's game, I'd for sure, I'd sure have Nathan McKinnon. For sure. For sure? Yeah, number one.

For sure. And then I'd like to play with, if I was a player, I'd like to play with Copatar. A great player. So your line would be Sutter, Kopitar, McKinnon. That'd be an awesome line. That's a work on that one. You've got to pick one of these three. You've coached against your brother, or, sorry, you've coached your brother,

you've played against your brother, and you've GMed for your brother. Which one was your favorite? Well, I coached four of my brothers. But if you had to pick coaching them, playing against them, or being their coach, you're the jrmed. GM what position did you like the best do you like going to war against them or did you like coaching or maybe the question should be what was the most difficult uh it's a good question playing against them became easier easier just because of our you know we were experienced guys

coaching them was when I first started coaching my brothers, and I was in Chicago, and we traded for Brent, who was the captain of the New York Islanders, and he was a really good player, and we traded for Dwayne, too, from the Islanders, and he was a role player. So as a young coach, that was probably the hardest,

because they're your brothers. And we just kind of got to the point where we had to say, separate the brother, coach singing. When we were at the rink, it was a coached player, and we got away from the rink, we could be brothers. And that's probably how I formulated. Other than Brian and I coached all my brothers. Dwayne, Brent, Ronnie Ritchie.

And Brian and I coached against each other all the time. But in the end, they were easy guys to coach because my brothers were, they were good pros. They just went about their business. And, you know, you could get into it about ice time, roles and stuff like that like you do with everybody every other doesn't matter but everybody on the team clearly understood that there was no there was no favorites that's that's part of being on good teams why number 27 that was I was a call-up player that's just what they hung in your stall

and it stuck then yeah like that was a high number then that was that was that those numbers in the 20s, 25 and up, were not good numbers. I got called up and that was the number that was hanging in the stall, so that's what they kept. My first training camp in Chicago, I think I was 42. That's a Braden Holpey story. That's how he wore number 70, he told me. Just hanging in his stall.

It was his training camp number. Training camp number. And then people went out and bought it, and he thought, well, people spent good money on it. I can't change it now. Yeah. It's funny in those high numbers. I like 27, and I don't know if I did then, but I like 27.

Jeremy wore that in Chicago. Rick Vive wore it after me, and then Jeremy Roneck wore it after me, and I always thought those were good numbers. But those kids in L.A., we'd call them up, and they'd wear their training camp numbers. That's why you've seen all in the 70s, and we won the cups. More guys in the 70s than Tofoli, Pearson, King, Nolan. These guys were all freaking. I used to get mixed up.

He used to get the assistant coaches and do the Lamp cards. I said, he's, freaking, 73, 74, 70. I can't remember. What did the group of NHLers think when Graskey came into more 99? Yeah. It was looked on as they were guys that weren't going to lie. last very long or something, those high numbers. Because you knew that they weren't giving good numbers.

I remember more about my jersey, not the number, but that's when they were the old wool jerseys. And so if they hadn't been worn very much, they discolored because they just keep them in trunks. And I remember one of the first games that I was in Chicago Stadium, and I wore that jersey. I wasn't white, it was almost yellow. My jersey, and everybody else had a white jersey on me.

had almost like an off-colored light, one of my first games. And then that was before you had names on your jerseys. So they probably could have changed it to 27 to 87 or whatever they wanted overnight. Your final one, if you could tell a young hockey player, young athlete, young person, any piece of advice right now moving forward in their life, their profession, their profession, in the game they're playing. What piece of advice would you give them? I tell the same thing.

It still holds true over and over. If you coach kids or you coach pros are still three things that the player is responsible for. Working hard, having fun, listen to the coach. It doesn't matter if you're six or you're 36. Work hard to have fun, listen to your coach. Do that. I think she's game on all the time.

You're always happy with them. you're happy with yourself. Coach is happy with you. You're happy with the coach. Had fun. It's not a job. Well, I appreciate you making some time for me this morning. It's been a lot of fun.

I've certainly enjoyed this. And, uh, well, thanks again. Yep. Good seeing you, Sean. Have a great trip out of British Columbia. Thank you. Hey, folks. Thanks again for joining us today.

If you just stumble on the show and like what you hear, please click subscribe. Remember, every Monday and Wednesday a new guest will be sitting down to share their story. The Sean Newman podcast is available for free on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, and wherever else you find your podcast fix. Until next time.