Shaun Newman Podcast - Ep. #117 - Ultra Marathon Athlete - Shane Mascarin

Episode Date: September 28, 2020

Originally from Edmonton AB he graduated from the University of Lethbridge with a degree in Biology. He has been working at the army base in Wainwright for the past 19 years. He has completed over 35 Ultra races which includes the Moab 240, 5 solo finishes at the Canadian Death Race, 10 Ironmans & Ultra 520 triathalon. We also dig into his journey with Mental Health which everyone should hear. Let me know what you think     Text me! 587-217-8500

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Send me a little blurb about what you're looking for. We got lots of different options, and I want to find something that can work for the both of us. Now, let's get on to your T-Barr 1, Tale of the Tape. Originally from Eminton, Alberta. He graduated from University of Leffbridge with a degree in biology. For the past 19 years, he's been working as a biologist. for CFB, Wainwright. He's got 35 ultramarathons under his belt, including the Moab 240,

13 times he's done 100-1-mile races and five solo finishes at the Canadian death race. He's got 10 Iron Man's, an ultra 520, and the list goes on. I am talking about Shane Mascarin. So buckle up, here we go. This is Shane Mascarine. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast tonight. I'm joined by Shane Miscarren.

So thank you, sir, for hopping on. Thank you for reminding me here. Well, you know, I was just saying, McKenzie Brown, shout out to McKenzie Brown for suggesting you and putting us in touch. You know, you, over the, you know, you started running in 2010. And since then, like, the list of marathons,

ultra-marathons, insanity that you've done to your body hurts my brain a little bit. So I'm interested to sit down in and kind of get to know and let the listeners hear about it because, I mean, it's an interesting little story. Yeah, it's been a while 10 years. It's been from zero to 100 in those 10 years of just going from, yeah, 5K in 2010 to international races. To doing the 240-mile race and or the Moab 240.4. I can't even spit it out right now.

Yeah, Moab 240. Well, it started as Moab 200, and because of trail permits in the mountains and such, it kept, as the weeks got closer, I kept getting bigger. I went to like 220, then 230, and up at 240 miles. So before we get into all the racing,

and I mean, obviously that is the, you know, the tagline of you is, right? You've done all these ultras, and I'm no stranger to bring a couple guys on that we've mentioned Ross Thompson and then Mikey Dubs. And I find it fascinating, first and foremost. But you're originally from Emmett.

Yep. And you go to school for biology? Yeah, at the University of Leffbridge. At any point in those years, were you a big runner? No. No, I'm running really honestly started in 2010 for me. Probably, well, 2009 did some laps around the rink kind of. while my daughter was playing hockey

and my wife was starting to do some races, some small triathlons and kind of got the bug a little bit from that. But yeah, it was something that was never on my radar when I was younger. Definitely, when I went to university

at Lefbridge, the irony is one of my bigger races is Lost Souls, 100-miler. And it's right out of Lefbridge in the Coolies there. It starts at the bar where my wife and I had our first date, and I could tell you back then that if someone had told me I was going to run 100 miles from this location, I would have told them they were completely nuts.

I never knew that kind of thing existed. It just, it feels funny to start the race at that location, actually, because that's where I spent a lot of my university hours and evenings down there. So, yeah, it came full circle back to where I started with my wife, and she was crewing me there. So it was an interesting how life changes. Yeah, no kidding. So you go to school, you become a biologist, and then you enlisted in the Army? No, I'm a civilian.

Oh, you're a civilian? Civilian, yes. So, yeah, so I was in, we both graduated. She is an RN and has her degree in nursing as well. So that's where we met to university. And I worked some consulting, some environmental consulting after school there, and the office shut down and took a job in Wainwright. We kind of made the big step to there.

It was a big step. My wife came from Calgary to Leffridge to Wainwright. Shout out to my wife, if she ever listened to this. I took my wife from Minneapolis to Hillman, Saskatchewan. And now we've made the big jump to Lloyd Minster. So, yeah. You know the feeling. I can't.

Personally, I know someone who can relate very. well, yes. Yeah, so it was a big jump. It was probably only going to be a stepping stone, Wainwright, to get some experience with federal government and go from there. But we've been there 19 years, and once you start, when we have kids, a small town living once you're used to it. I loved it.

The wife took a while to get used to it. But I think now it's definitely home. And we went back to Calgary actually yesterday. traffic is crazy. It seems we're used to like traffic for us is get stuck at the highway waiting for two trucks. It's stuck at the single one red light in town. You're like can't this just be green all the time? Yes. So yeah, it was a big jump but yeah, roots. It's home now definitely. What does a civilian do for the army? So I work as a my title is actually range biologist. And so I work in the environment section. There's a handful of

less in there. And basically the cold's notes would be, I keep the guys in green out of trouble. So a lot of our military activities and such might impact like the river. So fisheries act, pieces at risk act and stuff like that. So basically making sure we're looking after a lot. We have 620 square kilometers, the military base. So we're just making sure. My job is just to make sure we're compliant and places as good as when we first kind of when they leased it out. You're taking lots of soil samples? My coworker does more. I get to do more. Just I honestly, my buddies make fun of me. I count a lot of frogs. I count some sharp tail. I fly around doing aerial surveys counting deer.

I do the cool part of biology. And so a lot of times my weekends are very similar to my work days. Especially in the field season. Winter, obviously, it's a little different in the office. But, yeah, a lot of times it's, I was socially distancing before it was a thing. And, yeah, I worked by myself, I have some summer cruise. How long you've been growing the beard for? This one is more, I go off and on, in between. But this one's probably this COVID time.

That's it? Yeah. Really? Yeah. That's a doozy. It comes pretty good. Yeah. Yeah, so, but yeah, I try, I might trim it.

It'll be like 5 o'clock shot or a slight beard, but I'll let it go this time. It's part of ultra running, beards and trucker hats guys like. So let me ask then, in 2010, what gets you into running? And not only running, because for now 10 years, a decade, you've been hammering off, well, Here's the Coles notes. 1300 mile races. Five solo finishes the death race. 10 Iron Man's.

An Ultra 520. Whatever the heck that is. Well, I kind of got the idea. And you say six to eight big events each year, not including also the Moab 240. So like, that's a lot, especially if you weren't on a runner before 2010. Yeah, it escalated quickly.

It's probably the best. That's putting it likely. The funny thing is we're part of a running club, and I tried to mentor some new runners, and I tell them to do the opposite of what I do. Take your time, you know, work up your distances. But, yeah, so it was a spring race 5K in 2010. 2011, I did a half Iron Man.

2012, I did Iron Man Canada, and then 2013 to December. death race and then I think by 2015 I did 400 miles in one year besides other races but so it went fast but yeah six eight races like that's probably what's on my visa bill being uh on hold because of COVID for next year so there's a doesn't your body just fucking hate you at times I think it's when you race a lot it becomes it's uh i don't train a lot in between some of the races so it's actually there's some recovery a taper race again recovery taper race again so there's some there's some times that there's actually um low mileage i know listening to some other guys talk

i like rest days i haven't ran this weekend it's good i'm running 100 miles in iron horse weekend on Saturday and it's good. Like it's knowing your body definitely but I know lots of people like to say your knees are going to go whatever. I've actually have it. I don't think I've lost two weeks to injury in 10 years. I've had no major injuries. I should knock on wood here. Don't get hurt this weekend but I think you have to train smart and I don't do big volumes. I'm not hammering out 50K practice runs and killing myself. I'm the race is the reward and so yeah, trained towards it.

I think I asked Mikey Dubbs this and I might ask Mr. Ross this too. Do you enjoy it then? Yeah, I do. Like that first 5K you did in 2010, did you go, hmm, why haven't I done that before? No, I hated it. I was like everyone else, you know, you had your, your young life of sports and then got a job, had kids, put on the weight, and thought, oh,

I've watched my wife race, and especially watching some mini tries and such like that. And it's all middle-aged women, middle-aged men, and you're kind of like, oh, I can't be that hard. I'll do that. And it sucked. And then a few days later, you're, oh, what should? You should bump it up. Now, for the most part, yeah, it doesn't suck. Like, I truly believe races should be the reward.

It's kind of, it's those training runs and such. The work is before. So there's times, obviously it sucks. I like to enjoy myself. So I'm probably a little unique with some of the other runners. Like I know I'm not for sure Mikey. I do not get up early in the morning. to run.

Anyone that knows me, I hate that. I don't wake up early. I'll run in the evening or later in the day kind of thing. If it's raining and cold, I'm in the treadmill or the indoor track. I've probably done more. You're soft. I am.

I've raced, I've raced 100 miles in rain and mud. I've done some winter racing. I've done like the burkey on cross-country skis and minus 30. I don't need to practice that. I know it's going to be hard. So, yeah, I don't feel like you have to, like, really beat yourself up to train. There's ways to enjoyable.

Like, I'll be the first person. When it's minus 30, I'm in the indoor track watching my daughter's practice. I've probably done more halves and marathons on 20-meter indoor tracks than most people. Like, all the little rinks were lucky in our area, biking, um, Waynwright, Provost. A bunch of those rinks have indoor rinks. and so I can kill two hours watching hockey with the miles and they can multitask that way. And I don't have to wake up at 5 in the morning when it's minus 30. So that's, I think I just keep it different that way.

For me, that's how I keep going forward. So you mentioned, you know, you kind of, you're that middle age, whatever that, you know, late 30s kind of thing. And then, you know, you kind of get into it. And, you know, so that's a good shot of dopamine, so to speak, then. Like, it really bumped you up a little bit and made you feel good after the fact. I think sometimes part of part of why I run definitely is for my mental health. It gets me out.

I definitely keeps me busy, keeps my mind occupied, running, looking on trails and stuff like that. So I'm not sure if I really, I don't get as much as the. the runners high as I read about and stuff. Every once in a while there's some good experiences. But a lot of times I finish and I'm kind of like, ah, what's next? Like, or I could do this better next time. And so,

but I think there's times that you just have the perfect workout. I really like to bike more so. There's nothing better than nailing a good strip of pavement with a decent tailwind and 50K an hour in the tribe bike. That's what, like going fast. Like, and some of those runs are, Rides are definitely like, that was good.

So there's once in a while, like every once in a while there has to be that training run that just is ball running this year's been, our fall has been fantastic. Good trail run, good colors. Yeah, those are good. You don't have to be killer like four or five hour runs, but just something to, you know, recharge the soul. I know it sounds weird because I think light stuff's a couple hours, so it's, but it's just different. Mikey Dubbs knows this. He's getting a lot of praise today. He took me for a 5K run.

I hadn't been working out. COVID it. And I'm like, well, I mean, all of us, what? We became hermits and in the house. And then he takes me for a 5K run, which is what? For you, Yahoo's is probably 15 minutes. For me, it was 33 minutes, which is a slow time. But we got her done.

Yeah. But I wanted to kill Mike by the end of it. I was done. I was like, okay, that hurt. Yeah. You say it recharges the soul. Is that what you said? Yeah.

I think you have those workouts every once in a while. It doesn't have to be hard. It doesn't have to be fast either. I think that's where some people think that just because we're trying to qualify for, for me, like try to qualify for Boston or Kona or try to, you know, training for world championships or something like that, they're all hard workouts. I do lots of easy ones. I love every once in a while.

I'll go with a group run and people will be like, oh, you know, you're too fast and just pick that pace. And yeah, it's fun. It's, I think you don't have to, they don't have to be all like 5K of hell. But a lot of times I run by myself, so no one's complaining. So maybe that's it. But Mikey's full of energy and you mentioned mental health. And you've been open with me before we, we sat down that you've had some. some struggles with mental health and you've been trying to be very open about it.

Could you leave me down the path of that? Yeah. It's definitely a strange path. I've probably struggled with mental health obviously throughout my life. It's hard to pinpoint when that turning point was with my mental health. But most of the time it's been putting, whether, it's school, work, family, now running or running, it's kind of like 110% kind of into that just to keep my mind busy, but sometimes after a while drinking doesn't help, working all the

time doesn't help, running all the time doesn't help. And yeah, it deteriorated in the last couple years, probably the last year has probably been the worst for me. And it's just been it's been a struggle so I think that's why a good run or good bike is is good it recharges my soul because every day's hard for me I know a lot of people say oh I got bad days or good bad days makes you stronger well every day's really hard in my mind so really bad days are really bad I say this because I don't know you can call me stupid you can you can throw the coffee across the table I'll take it it'll be a little bit hot That's okay.

When you say every day's hard or tough in your brain, can you kind of why? Like, I just don't understand that. Yeah. I just, like, I have, you know, I don't know what a bad day is for me in this. Wind's blowing. My kid pooped on the floor and I'm irritated. I don't know.

That's awesome, first of all, that I think people that I know for myself with mental health, I'm glad other people don't understand because it sucks. But so for me, I have a type of, I have a personality disorder basically, but I've been diagnosed several times with other stuff. But what do you, sorry, what do you been diagnosed with? A personality disorder.

So I suffer what they kind of call cluster A personality. So I have social anxiety. So things like this. is different for me. Definitely outside of my box. I suffer for periods of paranoid. I'm very tough to be with because I push people away kind of and stuff like that just because I don't, it's untrusting and stuff.

And I get, so then I have kind of, my mind is always spitting. It never shuts off. So you're kind of always fighting that inner voice? Yeah, kind of an inner voice or just tunnel vision at times. So a lot of times people will think that you're kind of distance or grumpy or mean or whatever. You're just in your head and you just don't really notice people around you. And so it's weird, obviously, to have a family and a career and all that. And, you know, to have kids and wife and stuff is actually rare with my condition

because it takes a lot of work and it takes a really understanding partner to do that. So yeah, so like some days I don't talk to people and stuff like that. I'm famous for deleting my Facebook account, coming back, unfollowing people, and it's just because of just a trigger in my head. So it's weird. Like, so when I run, I have full conversations, or not conversations, but I just am thinking about all kinds of different things all at the same time. So it's always spinning. I don't sleep a lot.

So probably why I don't get up early to run. So that was kind of working with that. It's, I'll have it forever. So it's just trying to manage it. So it's a different mental health issues suck because the worst thing about mental health is you hurt the people you care for them most. Yes.

My wife and my wife. My kids have been through a lot. I would say the last year has been very tough on them, my wife especially. So it's tough. It's definitely, like I say, it's hard. It's hard when you don't realize, yeah, you hurt the people around you until you realize that. And that's what I mean. They're hard days.

And they're super hard when you realize, oh, I was a dick for the last two weeks or whatever. I don't even realize it at times. Well, the first thing I'll say then is thanks for hopping on because obviously this is not in your wheelhouse. No. But I appreciate you coming to talk about it. I think that's pretty brave then, pretty cool, that you're like, you know what? Don't know this guy from a hole in the ground, but I'm going to drive an hour. We're going to hop on.

We're going to see where this goes. Yeah, I think it's time. I've been pretty open. Like I said, my last year's been hard. I've been, and it's tough to say, but it's the only way you can kind of, I think we, in the last few years, we definitely talk about mental health more. There's a lot to stop the stigma. Let's talk.

But we have to go further than that because I think we just need to be more open. It's not just I need someone to talk to. That's for me, meaningless at times. So it's kind of understanding, trying to, that we just don't know what's going through that other person's head. So sometimes it's just,

we just need to be kind and understand. a little bit more and not it's the judgment of of mental health definitely and how we kind of treated our system is definitely broken I can say that for experience because I have been in the mental health hospital twice in the last year to a.k.a. Pinocca everyone so it's and that's how we kind of treat mental health right now in our province is stick it away in a hospital and yeah so it's I would say this as a guy that I don't think well I just I haven't had mental health problems least not that I know of yeah friends and loved ones may think different but I think I think

talking about it and being open about it helps guys like myself understand because I just I see when you say we've been more open about mental health and Bell let's talk comes to mind right now it's like great yeah great I'm all forward I have no idea what the heck's going on, but I'm all for it. But the more people that come home and share about it, I think then everybody can be kind of like, oh, oh, okay. Yeah, and it's, I think that's the next step. I think it's acknowledging there's something out there and yes, let's talk about it. But then we need to be prepared as a society not to kind of judge after the fact because it's, you can see it in people's faces.

And I'm like, yeah, I've been to Pinocca and they're like, oh. and it gets quiet, right? That let's talk kind of, they don't know what to say. It's like, yeah, I'm not, I'm not going wild ass crazy right now. It's stuff. It's just when there's issues, there's issues. And our system, like I was saying, is we just need that support. I was, the first time I was in Pinocca, I was in there for a couple weeks,

and I saw a doctor a couple times, and they release you and they think everyone, you come back to work or what, well, you're fixed. So I basically was locked in a wing and got out for air once in a while and had, you know, had a open, you know, room. It's, it's, I haven't been to jail, but the mental health hospital isn't probably much of a step up. So it's, it's an interesting, but it wasn't overly helpful. I was going to ask. I'm in, I'm in territory I've never been down and into. Yeah.

So when you talk about going to the mental health hospital, the pedulco, like, is that a good experience for you? Like, do you come out of there and be like, you know, you're kind of alluding to a little bit of it, but like, do you come out of there and you're like, oh, I feel a little bit better? Or not? Well, my two experiences have been completely, I guess, different. The first time I went, and I mean, the main place, I think mental health hospitals, are needed for when you're at risk. But once you're, for me, it's when I tunnel vision,

I've had two suicide attempts. That's why I've been in them. But once you kind of are out of that tunnel, yeah, I need to talk, I need some therapy and stuff like that, but being locked up really isn't really helpful. So it's different. Once you're kind of over that self-harm time,

you need that support. and that we don't have. Like when I was there, yeah, it was, well, you need one-on-one counseling, but it's a three-week wait to get in, even at the hospital. So it's like, well, I don't plan on being here three weeks, hopefully. So there is no, I think people think you go,

see it on TV, you go to therapy, you go to this, you see a doctor maybe once a day for five minutes or someone else. So what did you do the rest of the time? You actually talk to a lot of people like yourself. It's probably the best part. of that experience is you start to realize people on the street that you kind of walk by and judge, you don't know what's going on in their life. You meet definitely some people that have had some abuse met, you know, addiction issues, mental health issues, severe enough to get there and you're all there and there's nothing, you don't have to hide. I know why you're here. You know why I'm here, right? So it's you have conversations with people. I think there's more self-help with the patients to patient talk because there's not a lot to do.

But the first time I kind of, my attitude of being 110% guy and active is, I used it as a training camp. I got like 45 minutes an hour of exercise at a time. I would go run outside. I brought some, I had some change of clothes. They had a swimming pool there. I think I was the first person to ever ask, could I swim for an hour? They kind of looked like crazy. And once you swim, they're like, oh, I've never saw anyone swim that far before.

I did a couple of 3K workouts and stuff in the pool. And it was like a 50 meter hot therapy pool. But I just did what I normally did and just tried to stay as it. It was weird because everyone you talk to, you were like, yeah, I've done some Iron Man. They're like, yeah, sure. Yeah, I have. So I tried to stay normal and that I could beat it just by being active and fit. And I actually left the first time.

And three days later, I raced Iron Man, Arizona. I basically came out, packed. My wife came with me to make sure I was okay. I had some severe social anxiety getting there in the plane and getting there. But yeah, I had, I think, 11.5 hour Iron Man did really well. But it was odd. So when people have excuses of race of, oh, I didn't feel. good the day before or whatever.

You literally came out of a... Yeah, I spent two weeks and came out and race. And raced. Yeah. But I don't think I took it as seriously just because I was like, I'm getting out of here. And that's all I kept asking my doctor. I have a race.

I have plane tickets in three weeks. Can you get me out of here kind of thing? And that's all I was focused was getting out. The second time was more severe. And it was shorter, but I had to probably hit rock bottom in April. and that is not long ago no no no so yeah April end of April beginning of May I got out so in between that again so people have this I think opinion that depression people and anxiety people lay in bed don't shower don't do nothing well I got out did Iron Man went on you know took my

daughter to all her events trained did another 100k in the spring ended back up. So fitness doesn't cure it for me. It probably helps a bit, but you can still be active, still be a professional, still have a family. So that's where I think that mental health message has to come out. You can still be high functioning. It's rare, definitely, but you just never know what's going through some people's. That's where I go back. We just need to be kinder and be more open and it's okay to have this conversation. Yeah, so April, I had overdose, went to hospital, was there for a day or so, went sent to Pinocca, got back out. I think my family had enough, and it was a hard state to get the trust back.

But I definitely hit rock bottom that time. And my life has been incredibly better in the last five, six months. and but it's almost breaking down and just rebuilding again mentally, really fighting, but they're still really hard days, definitely. Is there anything that, like, you know helps? I find talking about it does now. I've gone back to, I go to weekly therapy. I have a good support.

I've changed some stuff. I changed some of my professionals that are giving my support, and I have a trust. I don't think I had a trust before. I think, unfortunately, I had to hit bottom maybe for some of my couple. Maybe my wife, that's hard. I don't want to speak for her, but she's been through hell. But with that, but I think the core friends realized that I needed help and stuff. So yeah, so there's more discussion like on our runs.

Hey, how are you doing? You know, you're doing okay. I'm on a really low dose of med. So it's not a lot of that. It's more self-thought. It's the, it's trying a bit of everything. It's trying some massage, trying some, you know, stretch therapy. It's doing yoga.

It's doing. I was going to ask. Meditation. Does, did yoga help or meditation for that matter? Yeah. It's really hard for me. Like, it's funny. I would rather run mohap.

then half an hour meditation because it is for me to shut off my mind it's like but running would be and I could be wrong on this I know what running is for me and my brain is constantly going so I feel that I can kind of understand the brain not want to shut off I get that when you run it's like a physical endurance distraction, whereas when you do yoga or meditation, it forces you to deal with it. Exactly. And like wrestle with it. And I would think like anything, if you could become good at that, maybe you could develop the skill in order to keep yourself from, but hell, I'm no doctor. Don't take it as that.

No, I agree. I think, again, in the past for me, we used to have a saying, but we try not to use it anymore. I call it pre-Shane or 45-year-old Shane, 46-year-old Shane. It's really been a turning point is that I think the past me, I'd go to yoga, go to those things and go, yeah, I'm there just to stretch my body, get my hip flexors so I can get faster. And this mumbo-jumbo of, you know, let your thoughts leave the room, all that stuff they talk about.

I just, whatever. Now I'm actually trying that because it's definitely helpful. And probably a key thing is probably the, And it's, it's kind of like good and bad is I am definitely medicated at night. I take sleeping pills now on a daily basis, so I knock myself out, which is great. I think I'm mentally better that way. But, I mean, it is a, you know, you're basically addicted or dependent on something to sleep. Sleep, yeah.

Yeah, and it's tough. As a parent, as you know, like my kids are in the teenage years and those troubling calls, you want to be there for me at the middle night. My wife's had to take them a few times or there's been some times where they didn't want a call or some because that dad's like loopy, right? So basically in my house, it's kind of like the routine. We do get the coffee ready for the next day and all that stuff. And then I'm normally the kids, do you need anything?

Because in half an hour, I'll be not very functional for a while. And that kind of sucks too, like to tell your kids. It's been really hard that part. Parenting's tough enough, but it's definitely tough when you have to show weakness to your kids. I know the hardest thing I've ever done in my life, well, to apologize for some of my behavior with my wife just from letting my mental health go was telling your kid that, yeah, I'm sorry about, you know, my suicide stuff. And yeah, to hear from your daughter, I don't want you to die. Those are tough conversations. But, you know, we had it out hunting and we were talking and just sitting outside and having that discussion.

They're tough, but I had to have them. And so I think we have a unique relationship in our household and it's different, but it works now. That's some heavy stuff. Yeah, that's what I'd be. Every day is hard. So that's why running for me is a release. it's something ultra running

especially the longer the distance goes the less physical it gets and more mental even short running it's in your head people quit because of their mind not their body

your body can be amazing like I've branded my body through whatever it's normally your mind but for me that's that's my deal with that anyway so like

I know going into an ultra there's going to be dark times and that's what I've always told I know I've told a few runners in the Lloyd group and stuff that were getting ready for their first altars the last few years. It's not going to be all Instagram and Facebook. There's going to be some ugly times. I call them dark times.

You're going to want to quit. Just don't, because they always stop. If you wait long enough, walk it out, whatever, sit. They come. But for me, I'm like, I know they're going to, because life has to continue and life's continued for these 46 years through this stuff is, I know it'll be over. so I just, when they come, I just almost relish them.

I'm like, okay. Here we are. Here we are. Is that the best you got, brain? And that's kind of, yeah, it's kind of probably my advantage deep in a race is I'm not going to quit. I mean, I have it. Obviously, your listeners can't, but. He's got a tattoo of I will not quit on his arm.

Yeah. So I got that after my first. suicide attempt and it's to try to remind them those dark times but they're good for um it helps in running to look because yeah it's most people's weakness in running and stuff is is quitting and it's not their body your body's going to hurt the blister's going to be there but it's going to be there tomorrow whether you quit or not so you might as well just you might as well get to the 100% they're going to heal um you can pretend that knee's going that tweak in your knee or that uncomfortable as like an ACL tear, but it's not.

Basically, unless there's bone sticking out, you can probably move forward, but it's your mind wanting to. Like, I've puked over, like, Mo had, I had every experience in the book. So you got to, I don't mean to pry too much. Yeah. So if this is prying too much, you once again can whip that coffee off the wall. That's fine. I've, I've, uh, I don't know if I just have a.

dug deep enough into it or not. I want to get into the Moab, but before we do, you mentioned multiple times trying to attempt suicide. I don't know, and maybe you can explain it, how do you get to that point where that's where you're at? It's a good question. I think it's a question I really don't have an answer for, and that makes it probably the most frustrating part to manage,

and probably why you get multiple, every doctor you see, like you see different ones when you're in the hospital. So you don't get to see the same one. Everyone has a guess. It's probably my main beef as a scientist with social sciences. You're just guessing. It's frustrating for me because I'm a data guy, right? So I have no idea. Most times, I think my last attempt, I was actually registered for a web,

I registered that day for a webinar on invasive species or something like that, like the next day. So it's not like... You weren't thinking about moving forward. No, it's normally it's there, it's a series of a week or longer days as they digress down. And then by then my brain, it's normally tiredness. Like then I can't sleep. And then it normally, the dark side wins. Everyone's...

I got to tell that dark side to fuck off. Yeah. And it's, and there are a lot of time their conversations. like that. And unfortunately, they have, it has one twice. Luckily, yeah, I'm still here. But I don't really have an answer and it's, and it's been just, you know, seen lots of doctors and it's weird because it's hard to explain. And I think that's the hardest part of, of understanding mental health. We just can't see what's going on in our minds. But for me, yeah, it's normally a tunnel vision where it just, it makes,

sense at that time. As soon as you wake up the next day or like that that was wrong. It's not that I don't know right to wrong and stuff. It's just at that time it just seemed and it's not that I even have I want to die. I just wanted to stop. Like I just want the brain to stop. And sometimes it just, yeah, it's just to the point that I can't stop it. So that that inner voice, it's funny.

Like, dude, you're pretty. Like, you're a pretty cool guy. Like, I'm sitting here. I hope that could come across in the podcast. I hope people are like, wow, this is. We're not talking about running. I'm like, you show up, you're this, you know, healthy looking dude, kick-ass fucking beard on his head. A big horn hat on.

You look like you're ready to run the Canadian death race, right? Yeah. And you sit here and you talk, you got a smile on your face. And then you go into this dark place. And I'm like, here's the thing about mental health, suicide, that kind of thing. We all know somebody pretty close to us that either has tried, has succeeded. Like, there's a lot. And every day there's more.

And that's the reason why I ask. It's because I just, I play the scenario out in my head. And I'm like, I just don't know how you get there. And for you, it's the brain won't shut off. Yeah. Yeah, and like it's funny because when you like with a lot of promos and stuff, it's, you know, get active, get fit or mental health gets cured by fitness. Well, I could tell you if running cured mental health, I'd be one of the sanest people around and definitely not. I'm not saying it doesn't help some people.

Oh, yeah, yeah. But there's more to it. And there's definitely, it's a, yeah, it's a shitty thing, definitely. And it's, again, it's, and it's hard to get support. It's, we talk about it, but it's, I'm, I'll be honest last week, I actually had some bad days. There was some stereotypical days where I was like, I don't even remember the last time I showered or, and I would have some afternoon naps. I took some time off, like a day off of work.

And it was like, fuck. Like, and I was like, I'm doing everything right. And I'm fairly happy. I have no stresses right now. know my family life is is good we're back on track you know like it's we're supporting each other the kids are doing good you know um activities starting up again but I'm still feeling this way and so I had some talk with like my therapist and she's like I we'll get you back in to see a psych doc and maybe just need a you know a bump with meds or something like that but it's I don't get into

I think it's end of November before you get in yeah and I'm a part of priority case. So our system is really broken. I just think of it, and I don't want to go to big talk about like with you know COVID money and stuff, but I think of if we just gave a fraction of the money we're giving to that kind of stuff like even the amount of disposable mass there's probably spent in this province a day back to like mental health and make a difference. It's yeah, it's two minutes and because of COVID it's Zoom it COVID time. I mean, There's lots of things to complain. We've lost, you know, our activities in sports,

but for the people that really need help, it really sucks. When I got out of in May, I couldn't see a doctor. And because of my personality and stuff, I really need to see someone. That's why I wanted to come here, like to talk a conversation. It's very helpful for me with my trust issues and stuff like that. So, but you can't see a doctor in person. So it was all you need to be Zoom, but most of them weren't even doing that.

kind of stuff because they weren't set up or whatever. So you come out of the mental health and there's no doctors to see. Um, most of it was because of COVID, but, and I mean, there's some extreme cases, but most extreme cases, they just ship you to the hospital. Like it's just kind of around and around. So you get to be afraid to say, I need help because you're not going to get any anyway. No, and I know where you're sending me. And it's not, it's not what I need, right? So it's a, it's a difficult time and it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, I think it's really scary for the people with mental health. Well, I mean, for everyone.

But, I mean, add the rest of, you know, job uncertainty, unemployment and all that. And with not having the resources, it's a tough. So that's why we need to have this discussions and get it out more, I think, and be more supportive of each other. Yeah, well, that's something we can all do, right? Yeah. Be more supportive of our communities that we're in. Yeah.

That's the easiest thing. But, I mean, what you're talking about, like, this COVID thing you know man it's been tough I just I don't know like you're a guy who deals with it's on a daily basis for a lot of people they keep themselves busy so they don't have to focus on you know maybe what's going on around them at home wherever and then when everything slowed right down we all had to deal with right because there was nothing to distract yourself with because you literally couldn't go anywhere yeah so yeah It was tough.

I mean, even for myself, I'm a biologist. I work by myself. I'm working from home. I'll use quotation marks because it's really hard to do field work from my laptop. That's the honest, you know, truth. But, and you're stuck at home. It's hard and everyone's frustrated. My kids, my daughter danced all year.

Just as competition, the first competition was the day, was going to be the day at, like, it was Friday. she was all ready to go. Saturday was going to be your first competition of the year and that's when everything got canceled. So all year to, it'd be like practicing for four months for hockey and never getting to play a game. And then, you know, hockey was like all the summer sports. My race season was canceled. I'm a race director. I started our running group in Wainwright and yeah, now we're trying to do it, you know, all of a sudden you're doing, do it virtually. You're trying to do all this stuff and it's everyone's frustrated not just the work part but even our releases are gone right so

everybody's yeah you can start to see more of society starting to rebel against it just like don't matter man i don't care if i get sick or not like i you lock me up in this place and not let me go do that is making me a little more like anti-social yeah to speak yeah and it's well it's and it's tough at our house because I get frustrated with COVID and stuff and my wife's a merged nurse and she's dealing with it and I mean we've been you know been tested in quarantine for what when they had an outbreak in Wainwright you know and stuff like that so she's dealing with it every day so who am I to complain to her about it right she's all suited up every day I can't really complain about wearing a mask so just to go to the store so they're awkward conversations and

or else so that's an interesting time for sure let's talk about the moab 240 yeah let's do this because you know i watch the um i would say this to any listener who's uh has no idea what we're talking about i would say pause it go on youtube search moab 240 there's a bunch of different videos on a breakdown of what he does but you can explain it to people but like you've essentially run for what 85 to 110 hours straight? Yeah. Yeah. So I think I ended up running

just around 90 hours or something when I did it. And it's, it's a tough race. It's definitely, I mean, the distance is always tough. But it's,

it's beautiful country, but it's unforgiving as well. It's definitely, it was, being the first year, they had some hiccup with some of the setups and such, but it was basically the first 100 miles was in this red stone, red dust, desert,

and the aid stations at these events are spread out. So they'd probably be anywhere from 15 to 22 miles apart. So, I mean, that's for us on, like that's a long run on a weekend or something, but that's fully rested, you know, with some water. But you're packing your stuff. And as the race progresses, those stints are becoming seven, eight hours on your own. And you're spending most of the time alone. It would be hours you wouldn't see someone on the race course.

So it's beautiful country. But yeah, the desert, I think it was plus 30 when we were in the hottest part of the, and no water. I'm used to running like here, you know, at least you can wet yourself down or something, drink out of a slew if you had to kind of thing. But there was nothing. And then we ends up, you know, zigzagging through two different mountain passes. I believe it's like 30,000. 29,000 and change, elevation, climb and decline. Yeah.

So we go over two different mountain ranges. And it's, yeah, and it's beautiful. But it's, it was an interesting, it's kind of, the race start was something I'd been to you. You kind of go and they take your pitcher. They do some stuff before and after. how you look and you get a physical before you go and they have an aide's fully paid eight no first aiders and it it was different it was some elites there is um anyone that i know um joe rogan if you follow his he has Cameron hayes on a few times i remember i was about

60 70 miles in and i run up to him and i was like well i'm probably going too fast so you kind of run in and spend some miles with some interesting guys and and for me it was being some of the who's who of the ultra running so that was pretty cool it was it was neat to see them it was the big chance like big chunks of change without seeing people or aid my wife came down to crew crew me she crews a lot of my races actually my kids helped too but there you can only get to half the aid stations so there's a lot of drop bags so you're hoping you guessed right to where you're going to, like, is it going to be dark or, like, headlamps and stuff. Once the schedule starts to go wonky, it starts to get serious because it's, it's,

um, you're not just running like around here. There's a farmhouse, you know, or some, and there's just no one living. So you, you're packing all that stuff basically in a, in a vest and backpack kind of thing of running backpack and hoping you plan, right? because there's not a lot of room for air at times. It's... What the hell is 90 hours straight up due to your brain? It messes it up.

It definitely... That's a race that has so many ups and downs because each night just starts to... To change how your mind works, how your body works. When I ran through the desert, so I got about 110. 10 miles. So I'd got through the first night. I ran with this marine guy that was just hardcore, but made me laugh throughout the night. And he was kind of giving me some stories and didn't

really hit a lot of his past. I ended up Googling him afterwards. He was some war hero. He got some metal killed a bunch of guys in Afghanistan and stuff. You would have no one running with him. But really, we got through the first night and that wasn't too bad. But by the second night, I got sick. like it was so hot the temperature change really messes up your body as you get tired from the heat to the cold

the desert nights I'd been puking for a couple hours got to an aid station I was like 110 miles in furthest that I'd ever ran before I look at my... Wait, wait, pin that for a second what was the furthest you ran

up to this race? 100 miles. So you have done 100 miles and you decide you know what let's double it Actually, let's over double it. Yeah. Yeah, it was.

You may carry up. Okay, you're at the first aid stage. Yeah, so, yeah, so 100 miles in. I think it was the second time I saw my wife in the two days. And I'm like, I don't think I can do this. And she's like, what do you mean? I was like, I don't feel good. And I don't think I want to walk for like five more days.

I don't think I really want to do that. And she's like, well, I'll have like, the best thing about Mohab and all the destiny trail races is their aid stations are beyond, believe, you walk in, you're like, you want a burger? Yeah, sure. They cook you a burger. You want bacon? Sure. You want some cheese? Want some avocado, whatever. In the morning, cook you an omelet or burrito, whatever they eat to Arizona kind of, or Utah area. So I got some food and I'm like, yeah, I still, I can't keep this down. And I was really close to quitting. that time and I she's like you have you're a day ahead of the cut off like and other people like you got lots of time just takes a time but at that time you think the world is ending and everyone's like well you're halfway there I'm like yeah it's still you know at least three more days it's not like it's only like you know like in a race you're like you're almost there well no I'm not really there like and halfway is still like a hundred and some miles so yeah we're not talking a 5k I got another couple you know 20 minutes of running and away I'm there I'm

yeah so it was a it was probably my downest point of the whole race at that point and she actually just got me some gravel knocked me out I actually laid down in our rental van for and I got probably about an hour of sleep a rough sleep and I woke up I'm like bam I'm good I'm like, give me my shoes. And I ran next 50K, like seven hours or something like that. Like I was actually running. And I was like, giddy up. But it was so I learned that and they had talked about it is you can reset your stomach basically.

If you can get half an hour of 45 minutes of sleep. And that's kind of how a lot of you progress through is you don't need a couple of hours because then you really stiffen up and stuff like that. But that stomach is starting to go just. lay down and just get some sleep. So it really had charged, recharged me to the point that I was going faster than I thought. And so I was running low on food and it was the second night.

I'm running through desert. I'm like, I'm out of food. Now I'm finally running good and I want to eat. So I'm running, running all of a sudden my headlamp hits this, I see the sparkle. So I want to drop some, a gel or two on the trail. I'm like, so there, people don't know, gels kind of liquid sugar basically in a container.

I'm like, giddy up. I like eat this random jail in the middle of the desert. So it dropped just randomly and just probably like the only gel I saw out there. I had no idea what type it was or whatever. I just bang, ate that and carried on. And then I almost beat my wife to the next aid station. And then it went good for a while again. It was it was interesting because as the nights go on,

you start to hallucinate. So what do you hallucinate about? So I think I was probably day, night three, I had to go across the LaSalle's mountains. So they're about 12,000, I think, elevation. It's a lot higher than I think what's Camor's or 9,000 or something. Okay. So it was pretty, like, it's a pretty decent climb. It's a good climb.

It was, I heard it was 9 Fahrenheit at the summit. I don't know. I had everything I had on and I was freezing. Like everything I had in my pack. I come off. And so you just pin it down the summit. I'm coming down the summit. I'm like, cold, tired, third night.

And for some reason, I sit there looking, I'm like, I've been here before. I'm like, I think my daughter played hockey here. And then again, I'm having that conversation in my head. And this wasn't even crazy shit. And this was just like hallucinating. I'm like, you weren't ever here. Like this is the middle of like the mountains. But and then you're, and part of you're like, well, yeah, I think I have been here.

and I've never been to Utah before. So you have this conversation and then finally you're like, no, no. And you carry on, but you start to think all of a sudden you're like, you're starting to see like, you know, the random stuff. Stumps look like a snake or something like that. But as you're starting to play tricks that all of a sudden you're like, am I going the right way? And then like you start not sure where you are anymore and like what you're doing.

And it takes a while to kind of refocus your brain. And I mean, just stay up for three nights and to see, let alone run, but just stay up for three days and see how you're functioning. So you're trying to cover map read, see these flaggings. And so I'm going through down the mountain pass and here's a guy laying on the trail. Spralled across. First I'm like, is that really a guy? And you kind of like, you kind of like touch him. It's like, yeah, it's a dude.

There's a first guy that saw in the whole leg. It'd been hours since I'd saw anyone. And he had hurt his knee and he's like, yeah, I'm laying here. I'm like, I don't think you can, Matt. Like, you're going to die. Like, it's cold. And so we ended up, end up running or walking with him back and he kept going, leave me.

And we'd been, I think by now we're 200 miles in or something like that. And 180. I'm like, I'm sure Courtney's already won this race. So don't, we're not podium here. So I'm going to walk with you to get you back. And so. He hobbled and we get back into this aid station again night three. And I make sure he's okay.

And I sit down, take my shoes off. And it ends up being I need to sleep. I'm exhausted. I'm not making sense to my wife. The first aid people are like, you need to get some sleep. I go, okay, I agree to go lay down. And my wife grabs my shoes. And I'm like, those aren't my shoes.

and we ended up getting into basically this brutal argument over my shoes and I was convinced there were someone else's shoes I just took these off your feet so you just start seeing things and it just goes and you just so like yeah okay I'll sleep

and so they're just everything starts to make everything's hard like it's just these little decisions like putting your shoes on is becoming these kind of big obstacles and such like that and then I think the next

day and another, I'd been running for a while and there's these turkeys on the road. And we don't have wild turkeys here, right? So I was like, what the fuck are those things? Because it's like, it's like, and so you're just not sure what's real anymore or what's not. They were real turkeys, but it took a while to realize. What would it feel like to go across the finish line? That was good. It was, it's a really tough finish to that race because you're about 220,

miles and you actually come into town and you still have 20 they loop you around the mountain and overlooks moham so you're 220 miles in bastards and i actually go by my i'm a i'm like 200 meters from our hotel it's a walk and my wife actually ran the five or walked with me the 5k through town and then up up then i'm like okay i'll see you in a couple hours for the last bit but when you down you run again like you're kind of this I call it the ultra shuffle kind of thing you're slow moving by then but yeah you kind of run it in and it's it's hard to explain because it's like how many people finished it that first year you know no I think I think there might have been close to 100 or something like that to finish it I think so and how many people started

150 or something like that it actually has a pretty good um Success rate compared to a lot of others, but I think because you're having really experienced people, like you have to have a 100 miles race, and you have to have a running resume, basically, to get in. So it was a good race. I think I was like 30th or something like that, and there was times, like, I never thought I was going to finish,

so I was quite happy. Still a day behind, I think, the winner. But then times really relevant at that. All I can think of is a year married to a saint. Yes. Because I can't imagine like my wife or me going with my wife. I'm watching it go through that over and over and over again. Because you've done a ton of these, maybe not to that extreme or maybe you have to that extreme a couple of times.

But I mean like, that's got to be tough on her. Yeah. I think crewing in an ultra is just as tough as running it. not only because they're waiting for hours and you kind of have this rough kind of idea of what you're going to do but the weather the course everything changes 100 miles is still 100 miles or you know 200 miles so there's a lot her and my kids have spent a lot of time waiting for me they've seen me you know not my finest hours for sure nothing like puke in front of your kid and putting some chafing cream on your privates like just right there because that's what you need there but uh but my wife

actually prides herself i think in and having nailing the crewing like it's part we're a team it's no doubt about it um like when you race at moab there's people with pacers and and and paid crew and stuff like that so i think you know hanging out with some of the topper end it's pretty cool for us as a couple and yeah she missed actually me at one time and the next check station I saw she was bawling she's like I'm so sorry like don't worry about it and at Moab I think I don't know how many miles she put on a rental car because it's all over you like it's that's it so what are you guys doing for your holidays this year well we're going down to the Moab to run a 240 she's going to drive around and follow me and that's what we're going to do for family holidays yeah that's our family holidays

We went to Vegas. I ran 100 miles there. It's just 100 miles of shame. Like that's not a big deal. We did the strip. I go run. And they went to Fremont Street. They come back.

I was like, I was doing it. So yeah, our holidays are kind of mixed into those kinds of things. The kids know I tried to make pretty much every dance recital I can get to. Every hockey practice. every game in the winter and spring is for them and then summer you're you're doing the opposite for dad you're uh there's been like at ultra 520 it's a three-day triathlon it's self-supported and they're on the highway giving me water bottles on the bike and uh they're pretty cool they have

been at various races they dress up as bananas they dress up again talk about hallucinating i was at at Ultra 520, it's an 84K run and I don't know, 60K and I come around a corner on this forestry road and they're just up as Mickey and Minnie Mouse and you're kind of like, am I seeing and stuff? That's my kids. So they get into it. You wonder if they have the conversation. By this time he'll be hallucinating. What can we do really? I think they do sometimes. But it's good. They've ran some stuff. You know, sometimes I've looped races. I've done some of those. those where you kind of run every mile or something like that.

They've come out and they'll do a lap. I did after I got out of Pinocca in May, I did a mental health awareness at home out of my driveway. And I did 100, 100 or 101K loops of my block. And so they cured me there and I had friends. I had Mikey from here came. I actually never did a single loop by myself. So that's pretty cool.

It is cool. Yeah, I have a good support crew and, yeah, and my kids helped out everyone else. And it's just part of our life. But it was something, yeah, that was a good experience too, just to bring awareness. You kind of have to do some weird stuff sometimes just to, in my neighborhood, it's used to me doing some running all the time. So they got to see me 100 times by their house. Do you enjoy the challenge?

I'm going to call it a challenge of what you... Yeah. Of the pure like... I don't know, man. We talked about 5K right off the hop of this thing. And you're like, it sucked. Yeah. Now you're doing...

I don't know. What's the longest you've ran in a race now? Most months. Mohad that's been the longest, yeah. 240 miles. Yeah. Like, that hurts my brain a little bit. To even fathom...

you know, I watched Mikey do the backyard marathon. And I was there at, I forget what time. And he was an hour like 12 and I think he did 19 hours. And I apologize, Mike, if I got that wrong. But something right along that. And I remember thinking like, that's a lot. Yeah, it is a lot. So it is.

Yeah. But what you did was on steroids. Oh, they're all, you know, they're just all different. They're all different challenges. But yeah, I, I, but you enjoy it. I do. I like this year with COVID it gave me a chance to do some weird stuff I did two of those backyards I did 100k of the back hair challenge on my treadmill just to see I'd only ran like 20k on my treadmill

before I'm like can I run 100k on it yeah I can so now I know and yeah I got to 100k and how was that I had enough like I was actually going to run 100 miles and I got to 100k part and I'm like my body was still okay and I'm like and my kids are kind of looking they're kind of sick of me hogging the Wi-Fi you know on the because you had to hook up so they could the Zoom and then I was running Netflix and they're like I'm like I think I'm not going to run all night and my kids are like no that's good because to me it's 100K in the next step's 100 miles there's no real like there's no use quitting so it's like do I really want to run another night on the treadmill I'm like no 100K is good but they're neat challenge I do like the challenge I do like the challenge

I tried to, there's a thing called Everesting, which is trying to climb the elevation of Everest on a bike, or you can run it. But you have to use the same hill. You go up and down on Strava. So I tried on a river hill that's 50 meters, so I had to do it like 180 times. I only got to 5,000, I think, meters. So I don't know how many feet. But I got base camp level, but yeah, it's a neat challenge. Like I did 22 hours going up and down the same 50, or 50 millimeter.

River Hill on the river because we don't have anything big, but I wanted to see if I could do it on the prairies. Once again, hurts my prey. But yeah, it gets weird because sometimes you're like, why am I doing this? It got. Why aren't, why, why are you doing it? I don't know. It's, I mean, it doesn't pay. No, no, I mean.

It costs me lots of money. But, but in fairness. any hobby is going to cost money. That's the nature of that, right? But this is very different than most people. And it's not like, I don't know, man. Like some of the things you're talking about, I'm like, oh, that sounds like just not fun whatsoever.

And usually hobbies are fun. Yeah. And so everything has its moments. Definitely. And I think it's just, to me, it's the challenge. It's kind of like, okay, I did that. What's kind of harder or what's, and it's, and some people want to be faster, right? And it hasn't been, I mean, don't get me wrong. I want to qualify for Boston and I want to be fast. And I've been lucky and I've podium on some ultras and stuff. So it's not like I'm just, you know, skipping along the way. But to me, it's more about the challenge. And it's, and sometimes, yeah, it's like, what's kind of harder? out there. And then I was like, oh, has anyone ever ever stood on the prairies?

And I looked on the database. No one has. I'm like, okay, I'll go try to do that. So it's sometimes you fail and that's okay. I learned that going down 60K an hour in the dark, my lights were not good enough and fog sucks in the dark because you can't see.

But on a highway is like there's life is full of learning lessons. And when you're a little bit, I guess I won't say, suicidal, but when you're kind of living on the edge of time, sometimes you make some weird chances and sometimes you're like, and for me, it's good to go, this isn't a good idea and I kind of quit and that actually makes me happy. I was like, hey, okay, being safe today. They're just challenges just, for me, it's, I don't want to get bored in my mind. So I just, I see something, I'll give that a go. So what is a race you,

What's, I think of the, every time I have you guys, one of you guys on that runs a lot like this, I watched a documentary, wife and I did, and I don't know how we got onto it, but it was the Barclay Marathons. Yeah. I assume, you know what I'm talking about. That is, is that something that interests you? A little bit. It reminds me of every bad sheep hunt I've been on, though.

You're kind of lost in bushwagon in the middle. that one doesn't seem I mean I think it's on the radar there it doesn't for listeners that have no idea what I'm talking about and you probably know it better than I do

it's a 100 mile ultra isn't it yeah but I think they think it's quite a bit longer it's yeah it's kind of this secret kind of yeah it's this weird race it's got a really cool theme to it where you run the first leg of it the one direction

then when you get back to base camp or the finish line, you turn around and run it the opposite direction. And all along the time, you have to rip out pages of books to let them know you've made checkpoints. And then you can be done then, or you can run the last lag of it, whichever direction you want. Yeah. And people by that time are out of it.

And they've only ever had, like, the list of finisher of this race is... I think it's like 20 or something. Over like a 10-year period. Or maybe even longer. Yeah. Like it's, it's like maybe one or two a year. And they haven't had a finish her, I think, for two years now. Really?

Yeah. Because it's, well, it's weather. It's in the spring. It's nasty. And there's no course. That's the problem. And it changes every year. So.

Yeah. Well, it's a bit of a mind. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely there. It's on, on the list. That one gets, it's not as high as some other. ones mainly because it's it's a different type of child like it's more it's more of a mine

fuck and I'm not sure if I'm really really what I want to do but but it does remind me of every bad hunt I've had like in the Wilmore or sheep hunting where we're just kind of lost and you're just bushwhack and trying to climb a mountain that has no trail and those aren't fun either so but yeah it's there's some neat stuff out there so so what do you do you? you want to do? What is like on the bucket list for Mr. Shane? Like what do you got sitting there going man I want to get to do this one? Well I have I have the main kind of races like the stereotypical ones as like because I run although I like we're talking ultras but I definitely like triathlon as well. I do I'm one of the few ones probably an ultra that I don't mind road

running either so I think big three obviously for me is Western states 100 mile there is kind of the Boston of the ultra world. It's like a lottery to get into. And it's where the history of ultra running came. It was used to be a horse race. And then some human probably someone like me said, I can do that. I can do that. And that's how that's how 100 mallers started. And that's how the buckle, if you've ever saw 100 miles normally have a buckle as the award. And that's because it came from a horse event originally. So no kidding. I didn't know, know that. Yeah. So that's, I really want to do it because I like history, like I like that. It's not the hardest course out there.

Like there's Leadville, there's Hard Rock that has massive elevation gains in Colorado that, that are altitude sickness, you know, and those kinds of things. And Europe has some of those. But Western States has that history. Just like Boston. I would like to go to, I like to race Boston once. I know lots of runners say, oh, I don't care about Boston. It's mostly because we can't qualify. So it's easier to say you don't want to.

But I think anyone that's, why can't you qualify? Because you have to get a time. So, and being a young male is actually quite hard. So I just changed age groups, but I had to be under three hours and 15 for a marathon. And that's moving. So you have to beat that qualifying time to even get a chance to get in. And then how many people in each age group depend how much even faster you have to be. So when you're in your 30s, I think you have to be, it's like a 250 or something marathon, which, I mean, not everyone does that.

So for me, I think now my new age group is, I think three hours 20. I've ran 321. So getting there. But, you know, that's how pissed off. 321? Yeah. And every time, I've tried three times to qualify. And I'm pretty open. Again, just like my, I'm the guy like, this is my goal going. into race. I don't like to like, oh, I don't care, you know, and then I beat my, I was like, I'm come, I'm going. And so I know my friends are watching and my wife's there. And yeah, and three times I've really tried. I've picked a race. I've actually got out like quit or reduced my biking and did speed workout and lots of pavement. And yeah, I think I've been 321, 322, 324 and that used to be they had they made it even faster used to be 325 I think to two years ago so I would have

been in but each each five years you get it slows down as we get older but it's not even easier because you're getting older so so that one I'd like to I'd like to race just because of the history of Boston everyone knows Boston right so yeah and then Kona for the triathletes like you had Ross on here and Kona is the big one for a triathlon. It's kind of, again, it's the history of it. It was where the first Iron Man was. It's probably not the hardest. When Iron Man was in Whistler, it was probably a much harder course,

but it's just the history of on the island. So I like the races that are kind of that history, because I've been lucky I've been able to, triathlon has a bunch of different world championships. done, I've got to represent, been on Team Canada for that as an age grouper in Penticton two years ago. And then I was supposed to race world champions in Emmington this year. But COVID, so I got a nice team Canada trisuit. I can't fit into because I got some COVID weight, but it's there for next year. Oh yeah, you're looking real heavy.

I have for, for me, but, uh, but yeah, so those are the three. But I, I think also is, I think my wife will kill me, but I definitely want to, they call it the triple, which is the three 200 miles in the same year. So Mohab, so there's Tahoe, Bigfoot, and Moab, the three of them, they're a month apart.

It's like August, September. Every month there's a new one? Yeah, the same incident. And you want to do all three? Yeah. In the same year. Yeah. Because I was inspired,

because I got to run with some people that did it and you're like, that's badass. I'll need a sponsor probably to get to that level. Anybody listening, eh? You want to see me suffer for three months. Can we talk about the double that? Because you've done what you have termed the double. Yes.

Where you do Iron Man Canada followed by the Canadian death race, correct? Correct, yeah. So I think I've done it three times. I don't each race, for sure twice. And last year I did it. So it's Iron Man Canada. So the last couple years have been in Whistler on the Sunday. Then recover Monday.

How far are you running on that? So Iron Man is 3.8K swim, 180K bike and a marathon 42K run. Okay. Which takes you, how long? How long is you doing that for? I think my PB is like 1045. Okay. So normally 11 hours to 11 and a half is normal.

Gee, you should have started out with this because this feels like 11 hours. Like, come on. Child's play. Yeah, they're different, right? It's a different beating up for the body. I'm teasing. Like 11 hours are going at it. Like a mountain 100 is definitely harder than Iron Man,

but it's just different. And it's a totally different group of people. That's why I love what I call it, like the double a week. So we normally, so we pack up Monday, drive back normally to Wayne Wright, change clothes, get out of the spandex, drop the bike off, load up the ultra gear, which is more like the running vest, the extra pairs of shoes, the trail shoes, and kind of do all that change.

yeah, drive up to Grand Cash on the Friday. And then I've raced death race, which is 125K and three mountain summits. And most days, I'm not sure how, or most weeks, or the twice I've done it or three times I've done it is Tuesday, Wednesday, you're like, I don't know if I can run it. Thursday, like, huh, it's not too bad. Friday, I'm like, okay. And then Saturday, you do it, and it'll just see how long you can hold on. I've been able to finish. I feel it. Those fatigue hits about in the legs, 50, 60K in.

You're like, this is just dumb, Shane. You're a moron. What is your wife say when you drive all the way out to Whistler, do that, turn around, drive all the way back to Wayne, right? Turn around and drive all the way to Grand Cash. Like, that doesn't seem fun whatsoever. No, well, some years. I guess actually the last couple or last year we,

her parents have a place in sycamuse. So we do, to try to make it fun for the kids. We do some water skiing for a couple days. That's my recovery. It's so, it's a tubing. Sleep on a boat.

And then we cruise, but she, she's learned the game and it's, she loves Whistler. She gets, um, her daily or probably three, four times a day,

Starbucks gets a week. Unlimited yoga pass and I don't see her until race day normally because she's making sure that she gets her done Then it's a lot like at Iron Man it's all I mean aid stations are all over the place that's the run there every mile so you don't have to bring anything and they just I see them once or twice in the course and That day's not too bad for her she can hit up some yoga the kids can go do whatever they want and then uh get prepared. Death race is a longer day.

She spends a lot of time waiting for me, sometimes in the dark, sometimes in the rain. So she's a saint. Definitely. Let's me do my dreams at times. Yeah. A couple times I'm like,

okay, that's the last time I'm doing it. And then she'd be like, you know what? We could do it better. What I was like, what did you say? It was the same thing as Mohab

because I was like, okay, I'm never doing this again. And she's like, you know what? we came back again, we'd stay here and do this. I was like, oh, okay. Obviously, she didn't hate it too much. No, I think it's, it's, we're just used to it.

And it's, I think Alberta's different because it's the same people like you see at the same races. So, you know, she sees some people. She knows it. Yeah, it's kind of like a community. Yeah. Yeah. I can see how it is.

I mean, as many people out there is they're running 100 mile races, it's a lot smaller. than what's living in, say, Lloydminster. Yeah, so like a local race, it's, yeah, it feels like going back like the old, I'm probably dating myself, cheers, you know, like Norm, kind of like you're yelling out. That's what I love about ultra racing. It's that.

The Iron Man Week is, it's 2,000 type A personalities with $10,000 bikes, and everyone's wearing their race kit everywhere they go to make sure you know that they're an Iron Man. And it's just different. everyone's everyone's you're competing against each other and you're like it's about time and placing and stuff so they're not as friendly whereas ultra running it's a different community because you might need that person to like I said to pick the guy up off dude let's walk before you die yeah I'll just leave me

seriously start moving whereas like at iron man or even you know a marathon or some you'd be like running by and some guy will be on the side of the road you're like you okay and you've already passed him really before he answers because you don't really care you're just You okay? Just because you're being polite. Ultra, you'll stop. And like if someone's,

I'll walk with you for a bit if you're cramping up or I got some salt or some water or whatever because at the end of the day, no one really cares if you're first or 10th or last long as you finish. Because no one else is coming sometimes, right? Like you're in the mountains. You got to look after each other. So it's a different community. Well,

we've been going for roughly an hour and a half. This has been extremely. interesting. I'm going to move on to the Crude Master Final Five. That's the last five questions for you, as you've probably known from listening to a couple of them. It goes long and short, goes down as many rabbit holes as you like. We got nothing but time. First one is, I love this question because I find it fascinating to hear who other people think are fascinating.

But if you could sit down with one person and have a coffee with or maybe an adult beverage, if you so choose, is there somebody you'd want to sit and pick the brain off? Well, that's a tough one. I'm going to probably nerd out here and be like as a biologist, Charles Darwin. I think beginning of like the person of evolution and when it wasn't cool to think of evolution and stuff that he was able to. We still, Darwin's theory and all that stuff. I think that history would be just to be in the time when science wasn't a thing would have

than really when everything was new. What would you ask them? I'm not sure what I'd ask. I think I'd just, it'd be interesting to see before we kind of fucked up a lot of things. Just kind of like, it just, the thought process to go away from,

um, definitely of, you know, that we just appeared and stuff, you know, animals, you know, like the Bible and all that other,

like, whatever theory you want to go, but to go, no, we evolved and to really, and talk about genetics and that it matters and stuff. I think that stuff's pretty cool, mainly because I guess I have a mental health and I look at it is my dad suffered and stuff. Like genetics and science, I find is cool because it's hard to figure out. And so just some of the stuff that those early scientists would be pretty fascinating just because you're out of the norm at that time. So, and then And then other people, I love to talk to even old trappers and old settlers. I like that history stuff.

Just before I always amazed as when you're outside, when I, as I, you know, run outside, bike outside, work outside, hunt out, whatever it is. Just what it looked like before. It would have been super interesting to go back 150 years and come back to this spot and see what it looked like. Yeah, like it's, because you have these stories, it's kind of like elk are getting. more common here, but Elkhore here originally, like when the settlers came, you know, on the prairies and stuff. And so just to see what would have been here,

grizzly bears on the prairies and all these different things, it would just been interesting to see. I like that kind of stuff. I get to, I was saying to you before we started that I get to sit down and I've been working with the Lloyd Archives, I'm doing, you know, sitting down with,

you know, I think the oldest person now that I've sat down with is 95, I want to say. So almost 100, years ago they have you know let's call it 90 years ago because they're first born they're not remember but they got they got stories that are just fascinating right like 60 years ago you know the latest one that i'd never heard before was uh the walls of the house were there was cracks in them so the wind would blow through and nights were extremely cold so they were all sleep in the same bed all nine of them, seven kids, two parents, and the wind would just blow through and he just says,

all I can remember about being back then was I was always cold. Right? And you just, well, I mean, look at where we're at now. Yeah. Like, it's hard to even, how do you even go back to that? Like, you, you can't even get in the same mind frame, mind frame because it's just like, it's from a different time. Yeah. And that's what makes it, I am, because originally actually our old family, a homestead is at Unity and it's over a hundred year home. Okay, yeah. My great aunt lived a hundred years and she passed away two years ago or some, but yeah, the stories of being this area when it was first, like the first plow in this

area and it was just amazing what they suffered through. Oh yeah, and we we get upset now wearing a mask or traffic light or something. No kidding. Like or whatever the new age, you know, issue our Wi-Fi's out. Oldest guy ever interviewed was from Unity. Oh yeah? Campbell he's the guy who flew in World War II okay yeah yeah and really really well and I don't know this is episode one 17 I think if I'm memory serves me correct and that 117 he's right up there

is one of the most like hair-raising things ever I hadn't talking about being flying up being a tail gunner in World War II and flying like 36 missions over enemy territory like what like once again that's something from a different a different time a different like we haven't seen anything like that in our lifetimes no yeah like we get like I said we get upset with when our Wi-Fi is slow or something like that so well I remember being on the farm and when we first got internet it was dial-up mm-hmm like man that was bad internet and it took forever to do anything and now like man it is quick like it's almost surprisingly how quick it is, but you're right.

It slows down for a little bit. I'm like, what the heck's going on here? Just get moving. That's our problems these days. Yeah. If you could run in one country, not North America, where would you run? Not North America? Yeah.

So you're up, you're Africa, you're, I don't know, wherever. Probably I like New Zealand's way up there. I think it's a beautiful looking place. Rugged as well and still fairly primitive. I think it would be neat. There's some races there. I've actually looked. France is another one.

The Alps. I was lucky enough to go. My wife's family is from France and went there to watch the Tour de France one year. You went and watched a tour to France? Yeah. And I actually wrote a stage, the Elp Diaz stage. I pre-wrote it two days before

they came through. They came through and it was actually probably one, it ranks way up there and one of the best experiences I did. I did a glibier mountain as well. It was like a three, four thousand meter a day and I don't know how long of a stage. But I read the whole stage, both climbs and both mountain stages were closed the roads and they were already camped along the side getting ready for the race. And then when I did Elp Diaz, all the switchbacks were passed. packed with people in the Dutch, they call it the Dutch corner where the Dutch all hang out. They all wear orange and they paint the road. They were already drunk two days before and I had a Canadian jersey on and they're like,

Oh, Canada! It was like by far, like you felt like a superstar. And then my wife's family, or my wife's cousin worked for the promotion and we got VIP spots. We were at the finish line at Alp Diaz two days later and writer Heschdel, like the Canadian almost he was in the break with. But it was unreal. Like to watch them ride what I had run much,

ride like much faster, but it was cool. It was a neat experience. Well, Tour de France is one of those events, right? Like it is. Yeah, like we, you don't,

you don't realize it to you're there. Like it's, I mean, it's neat, it's neat to watch. I mean, we went to, I think,

three stages and we watched them finish in Paris. and when they do a couple circuits and I mean they're flying you don't realize how fast like I mean we get lucky on a bike and get the right tailwind or in the 50ks for you know a bit they're just going like that

in the Peloton just cruising by and it was neat to watch them finish and see the jersey presentations and it was yeah it was pretty cool that's super cool yeah and at that time Cavendish was a really big sprinter and had the green jersey and my wife and I were walking

and she has this huge crush on him. He ends up riding by us like an hour afterwards on his bike. He was looking for his crew or whatever, like some family. He just happened to be riding down the street. It was just a neat thing. It was surreal. It was a neat experience. If you like cycling, it was the neat event.

But yeah, I think running there, it was beautiful. And everyone runs and bikes and active. It's much more of a. They're not minus 40 for eight months of the year. Yeah. Coolest person you've met in your racing travels. Maybe coolest isn't the right word, maybe most memorable. I think two people stand out.

A good buddy, Bert Blackbird, he's an ultra runner out of Brandon Manitoba. I've been able to run. He ran the first year, Regina to Brandon, fundraising for Huntington disease. So I ran 100 miles with him, his first 100 miles on the highway we ran. And then the next year he ran, he tried to actually to run from Swift Current to Brandon, 600K. He didn't make it all the way. But I ran another, I ran his first 100 miles with him as well. and he was

at one point he was like crawling on the like 300 400k into that run he did nonstop he didn't want to stop sleep or anything just to bring awareness and yeah he was suffering out there and just to bring awareness to a disease that affected like his kind of adopted family and it was that's some passion on the road

really just yeah to put yourself in the pain cave like that is, you know, just like, you know, Terry Foxes of the world. And, I mean, not the same level like that, but it's like people that run for a cause that really go deep. It's, they're different people. Yeah, when you see someone suffer like that, I know the first time I got out,

I ended up running another 50K with him to finish just because we're just trying to keep him going. He's a loose, he doesn't even know where he is anymore and stuff. But just for a cause, it's, it was. was some great mileage. I remember the second time we ran together, I ended up getting even at Rabdeo, so my kidneys broke down after. And my girl spent their 13th birthday in the Moose Jaw hospital, a boarding waterhole while I was in the hospital that time. And I tried to get back out with him to run because that's kind of, you know, powerful person. Another person I got to run with last year Andy Stewart is Andy ran across Canada he's ran across Canada I think

several times picking up litter in the ditch he came through Lloyd and so I drove up from Wainwright and met him at Vermilion we did 20 or 30 K's and yeah he pushes a little like a stroller and he picks up litter in the ditch as he crosses Canada and so because of COVID and stuff, he's been cleaning up the highways of just BC, because he's in BC. But you spend time with guys like that, that,

like, when people are picking up other people's piss bottles or chew bottles and stuff in the ditch and thousands of Tim Horton cups and everything else, just because it's amazing. That you could probably get more air time on the old news network, shouldn't it? Yeah. Yeah, I think those people,

Yeah, they come through some places. And both those guys aren't really out there for that, right? So they're just plodding around. But, and it was amazing miles with him because I don't know how he keeps positive because he's like, they're still just as dirty the next year. And people tell him that too, right? And why are you doing it? Because someone's just going to throw it well, because someone has to clean it up.

And yeah, it's, and he picks up, he has it separated where he has cans and bottles. and on one side of the, and he could only go until he's full, and then he, you know, just wanders and he camps, tents it in random spots under bridges, wherever,

every once in a while, a hotel, maybe some. Imagine the stories he's got. Oh, yeah. It was just, and his pot, like,

he's still positive, which is, I mean, he has his bad days too, but just to do that. And he drops off bags of recycling at like a school or something that hopefully they'll use the money for something.

And then, I'd like try to give him like 20 bucks to have supper. He's like, oh, I don't, I was like, no. I like, you need to eat too, man. What's, you know, at the start of this, you said that, um, your mind playing, uh, with, with you, with you on injuries while you're running. What is the worst injury you've come, you ran through?

And at the end, you've gone to the hospital or the first aid station and they're like, uh, yeah, we need to fix that. Um, Rabdjo was probably the one. It was the one. Yeah. Like, I've been, like, I haven't had anything else that I really need to be. I mean, blisters and trench foot or something, that's, that's just part of the game. That's really it.

The only time I've ever had to go to the hospital or even a doctor after race was that time. And, uh, I'd gone in not feeling good, but because it was for a good cause. I ran and I pace where I'm not doing what I normally run. I run at someone else's pace. and he wanted to run fast. We ran the first 100 miles in 21 hours, which is fairly fast. And I was sick, and I just kept going,

and I'm like, I have to stop at 100 miles. And then the next morning, my wife just said, you stink. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I've been running. Like, we're in this motorhome. We borrowed from a friend to go across the country. And she's like, no, you smell different. It was like ammonia smell because my kidneys weren't.

And so, yeah, I pissed cola, I looked like. And then, yeah, I went to the hospital. and I'm limping in there walking. They're like, what's wrong with you? And I'm like, well, my wife says I stink. They're like, no, is your legs? I'm like, no, that's just normal. I just ran 100 miles.

And they looked at me like I was an alien. And it was hard. I'm like, that's not my problem. And then I walked in. I'm like, and I only went in to make her happy. And they took my test. And they're like, are you sure nothing else is wrong? I'm like, no, the rest will heal itself.

Don't worry about that. I want to get back up and run. You need to tell my wife, I'm good to go. And then Dr. comes in, she's like, you're not going anywhere. And I think I had seven IV bags or something like that.

And then, yeah, I was off. That was probably the only time I've been ordered to not do any activity for a week. And then a week after, two weeks later, I ran another 100-mile or though. So your kidneys bounce back.

Does it just absolutely impress you what you can put the human body through? Yeah. I think so many people, Don't realize underestimated. Oh, yeah, like this like you I'm not promoting like to run or like hurt or to get rabdio at times, but you learn lessons But, I mean, you go through the checks and once you're cleared, yeah, I run again. And yeah, I ran another good 100 mile or two weeks after being, I mean, probably 70 IV bags or whatever. It's good for the recovery plan. I wouldn't suggest it the best way.

But your body can really heal. I think, like, it's funny when you look at the original stuff when people did marathon plans, you know, take a week off or a day off every kilometer run. well, you don't need to do that. I, you know, I said to this to a few people before, but the only thing I got that remotely relates to it is once upon a time when I was 20, we biked across Canada, right? Yeah, yeah. And so, like, people are like, when you say that, people are like, you did what? And I'm like, well, when you say it and you look at the grand scheme, it's like, how heck do you do that?

But just, and my brother has a way of just, well, we just got on the bike every day and just started pedaling and we seen how far we could get. And then you'd stop. And we had a hotel, food, shower. Like, I mean, we did it the nice way. We didn't camp on the side of the road. And, I mean, you did some silly things too. But, I mean, it is pretty impressive what you do if you just keep putting one foot in front of the other or hop on a bike and just keep the pedals going. You don't have to go and mock chicken.

You just got to keep moving forward. you do that, it's pretty impressive that one, you just also look back and you're like, oh man, you've gone quite a ways. Yeah, first of all, that's really impressive. It's kind of on my bucket list. I'm going to do. I like to get across Canada. Yeah, I think I'd love to do that. The only thing that scared me now, I tell you what, the only thing that really would scare me now is the texting, the phones. Yeah. Is you would need, like, when we did it, we didn't have anybody following us, didn't have anyone in front of us. So we just relied on making sure that nobody ran us over, I guess, and I mean, maybe we were fortunate, I don't know, but back then there was

very limited cell use in 2006, right? Now, yeah, there's some rough days. Like, I put on a lot of miles on highways, and I think people would be blowing away how many people are on the phone, because you see them, right? Like, especially if I'm on a one-laneer, I see them coming at me, and I can see their head in their crotch or wherever, you know, and, you know, and, you, There's nothing that sounds worse than someone behind you hitting rumble strips. You know, they're doing, and you're like, my main thing is at least up the highway, if they're doing 110, it's probably quick, at least if they hit me kind of thing. But there's nothing you can do.

But yeah, there is more of it. Definitely it's, but yeah, it's high on my list. I'd like to go across. And I agree. I think I truly believe with some training, like if you can swim and ride a bike, run, walk, I think pretty much anyone can do an Iron Man and I think anyone can do an Ultra I'm not saying like from zero to a hundred mile

like that month kind of thing but But if you put your mind to it and have a little bit of discipline Yeah I think just about anyone could Like I don't think They're only impressive because we think That's just not doable But it is doable

Like everyone like people are doing them all the time We just don't want to do it It's not that hard It's just like you said It's just getting up and getting, you know, it's ultra running is like running the quotation marks. There's a lot of, there's a lot of hiking. There's some walking. You know, it's doable.

A lot of people just don't want to. It's not going to all be fun, but it's rewarding and at times. And it's, but our bodies can take it. The less training you have is just, it just turns out the days after are way worse. Like you run, go. from zero to not, you know, run a marathon with no training. You can finish the marathon. You might not walk for two weeks afterwards.

That's where training helps you is the recovery. But anyone can, like I'm not dismissing what we're doing, but it's, I think anyone can do it if they let their mind do it. Well, I don't know what. I just literally today sat down with Larry Sauer. I don't expect that name to mean anything to him. He was a teacher here in Lloyd Minster and coached football for a lot of years. and he was talking about

affecting the youth and he really enjoyed that and he talked about a kid trying out for football and he was called it 340 pounds and could hardly run across this room which isn't very far as we've been talking about 240 miles but they kept on him and just said just keep coming to practice keep coming to practice

and by the end of the year in his first year then he could run around the football field you know and I mean from here to that, that's a big difference. And by his third year in football, he's one of the lead, you know, and you can just see the progression, right?

And for a lot of people, they don't want to put in that work to get there. Well, it's consistency. The first, I think, especially with fitness, is whether it's, you know, hockey or running or biking or whatever, if you're consistent with it,

you'll get better. You might not be an all-star, but you'll get better, just be from doing it but it's those first probably weaker to you that's always that most people quit but it's once you get over that hurdle you don't have to run 100 mile weeks for training you just need to be consistent whether it's 5k or whatever like a couple times a week it's not um hell it could be one k yeah right it's just being consistent in doing something it's amazing how that steps can go together and then what i always love about it uh not running just anything

I used to, when I was playing in on Wisconsin, I was living with my brother and his wife, and I was running with their dog every day. And what would happen was by day 10, 12, 21, I have those days where I didn't want to go. I mean, and you hear people talk about those are the days you got to go. Yeah. And if you don't go, your body doesn't feel right anymore. Yeah. So I can just imagine what you guys feel like.

if you don't go running, like after you do it for so long, your body probably doesn't feel like it's like, gosh, it just went. No, that's why a lot of guys don't like recovery days. And I guess when I say I take a recovery day, there's probably still some swimming or I have three dogs, so I walk lots, you know, or, you know, just, but you move. It doesn't have to be an intense thing, but it's just like, you know, a dog, I think,

is the best thing for running because it makes you want to go, it forces you to go outside once go, all right? It's like my dogs want to run and I mean my dog now runs yeah like ADK runs and stuff like that but it's probably unique too but I think it's just that consistency and even walking your dog and running two or three I know ultra runners that most of their training is you know an hour or two just long walks with their dog and hiking and stuff it's not you don't have to do some track workouts stuff like that but At the end of the day, the feat of going that distance is incredible. But I think you mentioned it very early on in this.

The hardest part about an ultra is what goes through your brain at the darkest times or the hardest hours. Yeah. And that's, normally people with high DNF rates and don't have success, I think quit because their picture of what's going to happen is quite different than the reality. And that's why I'm quite blunt with people when they first is there's going to be some suck. And you just, but if you know, like, if, because everyone sees Instagram nowadays or whatever, right? And it's like, oh, it's beautiful sunset sunrise. We're not running with smiles on our faces, love and life.

Look, they're on top of the summit. They don't even look sweaty. But instead, when you get on the summit, it's 60K wins and it's hailing sideways, right? And you're trying to take that perfect picture. Gay guys, this is awesome. Yeah, so it's, I think if, but as soon as it gets ugly, they're like, all right, I'm tapping out, right? It's, and then I think majority of them regret it almost instantly as soon as because it's like, sometimes you have to even walk out of where you quit.

Like it's like, might as well kept going forward and say it backwards. And then by the next day, it's, I think there's some regret. So it's, it's really knowing. And some of it comes down to why. Why are you doing it to be out there? You know who David Goggins is? Yeah. What do you think of David Goggins?

I like to, I listen to his audio, look at stuff. There's some. He's an extremist, right? He's extreme, yeah. But I like what, I like what he says about callousing your mind, right? Yeah, yeah. He's, and it's true, you just, sometimes you just have to toughen up and, and suck it up and move forward and, and just embrace

you have to embrace the suck at times and just because after the suck there's good there's pizza at the end or beer or whatever it's good because I guess I'm different my why is I'm not like I said most time my wife or kids are with me

I'm not quitting in front of my kids so that's my why so I just keep going forward so Final one. If you could own hypothetically, a record in Guinness Book of World Records,

what would your record? What would you want? I don't know. That one's, I've never thought of that one. That's a good question. Yeah, I don't know the answer to that. I really, I'm not really a record person, so I've never, I've never really found out. And yet you, and yet, you tried scaling Everest in the prairies.

Yeah. That would have been a record for the prairies. Yeah, around there. Right? Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what a record would be. That's a stumper.

Hey, well, it's the first time I asked it. Yeah, that's a good one. Well, I really do appreciate you coming in and sitting down. I've got to be honest. I enjoy all my podcasts, but this has been a pleasure getting to know you. meeting you as we walked in the building and sitting down. This has been a lot of fun. And I really look forward to seeing what you do here in the future,

like with this running. This is pretty cool. Are we going to get you out to some of these runs? Yeah, that's what everybody keeps saying, but I keep saying I'm a horrendous runner. Even Mikey as a running goes, you're not built for running. Like, screw you, Mike.

All right. Mikey's definitely built as a runner. Yeah, he's a little gazelle. I'm a freaking rhino. Well, that's how I feel like when I line up in the A corral at a marathon, I'm 180, 190 pounds depending. Yeah, I feel like the fat guy in a little coat to their syndrome. And I'm not a real big, I'm not a real big dude, but I'm looking around at a lot smaller dudes. But you have incredible.

I think Lloyd Minister, I think it's nice for you guys, for you to get these guys out there, like on, out in the public. because there's some incredible athletes that just don't do mainstream sports, but that group of Lloyd runners are putting the local area on the map on these races. And yeah, there's some incredible athletes that people just think, oh, they're just jogging, but, you know, it's a pretty serious sport, just like any other sport out there. But I think people just don't know it. Yeah, well, and it's just, it's extreme.

Yeah. It's super cool to listen to. and here because it's just you know i know there's a lot of ultramarathon guys out there i get it yeah but there isn't you know a billion of them right like that isn't true no it's i mean it's getting a little bit and it goes up and down like like everything it's getting more mainstream but you got to be pretty hardcore to run 100 miles i don't care who you are yeah and that isn't just something you go and do tomorrow and i say the there's a big chunk that you won and you never see them again.

Nope. That, not, not for me anymore. Yeah, I mean, everyone says that at 100 mile. I'm never doing that again. But there's a bunch of that, yeah, that's good. Because you'd never see them. Or one or two years and that's good. Goodness gracious. Well, once again, thanks for driving on up. This has been an extreme pleasure of mine. Thanks again. Thanks. Hey, folks, thanks again for joining us today. If you just stumble on the show, and like what you hear, please click subscribe.

Remember, every Monday and Wednesday a new guest will be sitting down to share their story. The Sean Newman podcast is available for free on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, and wherever else you find your podcast fix. Until next time.