Shaun Newman Podcast - Ep. #127 - Sports Psychologist John Stevenson

Episode Date: November 2, 2020

John has worked with a wide variety of organizations, individuals, and athletic teams, to improve their performance. He's worked with such clients as University of Alberta, The Canadian Military, Royal Winnipeg Ballet, Ottawa Senators, Edmonton Oilers, Saskatoon Blades, Braden Holtby & Carter Hart. We dig into social media & screen time and its effects on the brain & athletes abilities to think quick, what clues successful people have left & never touching alcohol. Let me know what you think   Text me! 587-217-8500

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visit shaw Newmanpodcast.com in the top right corner, hit the contact button and send me your contact information. We've got lots of different options and I want to find something that can work for the both of us. Now, let's get on to that T-Barr-1 tale of The tape. He currently resides in

Eminton, Alberta, a former goalie who played for St. FX. He has his master's in sports psychology and a master's in counseling psychology. He's worked with the Royal Winnipeg Ballet, Alberta chartered accountants, equestrian riders, volleyball, basketball, and hockey players, a former goalie coach

for the Ottawa Senators and Eminton Oilers. He spent many years working in the W.HL. He is most notable for his work with Brayden Holpey and Carter Hart. I'm talking about John Stevenson. So buckle up. Here we go. This is John Stevenson and welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast today. I'm joined by Mr. John Stevenson. So first off, thanks for hopping on. Thank you for having me on your show. Thanks so much. Now, before we even started,

I had a couple different little fun things to get going with, but you mentioned you've never tried alcohol before, like never a drop? Accidentally once I thought somebody had said there was a Coke and the Coke for me. So I took it and sure enough, it was a rum and Coke. That was the only time I, and I was like, oh, right. Like that was the only time I've ever touched alcohol. I'm curious. Unfortunately, I lost a friend when he was 16 years old.

And his mom had purposely had an open casket. service and this is going to sound a little bit strange but um he was a really good looking guy and he was like he did a lot of modeling actually and uh when they had the service you walk by and you're like who who was that and not to be disrespectful but it was just it was just i to this day it just gives me chills and that was kind of the the first thing that to made aware of alcohol and to the day it just has a very you know sad and lingering effect and literally he had two beer that night and he just went off a country road and unfortunately killed himself ah shit and you you had mentioned before like i went to um st francis Xavier University

and kind of a wake up call. I saw a lot of stuff on the campus, just a lot of negative stuff with alcohol involved. And that just again reassured, like reaffirmed for me that I can have fun without it. I've never touched drugs, I've never touched alcohol. And those were kind of things, you know, playing hockey. And I grew up in Sherrod Park.

I grew up in Toronto, but I grew up in Sherwood Park and I'm sure you go to these bush bush parties and stuff like that and just from my from my perspective I just didn't see a lot of great great stuff around it and so that's that's how I just chose not to get involved in that I could and for me I thought I could just and I did I had just as much fun without it I think sometimes some people thought I was drinking alcohol I know that that was kind of my experience around that. It's interesting because, well, alcohol is just so commonplace. It just, it is. And I mean, I think of myself. I played senior hockey in my hometown of Hillmont, Saskatchewan for nine years. And one of my favorite parts was the socializing after.

Just having a beer or two in the dressing room, it's those will be some of my best memories, which is odd to say, you know, when I look back on life, like I had so much fun in that dressing room, sitting and getting an old guy's over a couple of social bowls. And no, I appreciate it. You mention that, Sean. Because in some ways in my hockey circles, it hurt me. Because you're right.

There's that part of the hockey aspect, hockey world. And I think once guys got to know me, Um, you know, and part of it, I ended up being the designated driver. But at first it was, um, it was odd. It was weird. Um, you know, because you, I don't know what your, your feelings are, but in some ways, alcohol and hockey were synonymous. Um, you know, like, like I said, not anything negative, but that's, you know, what you did. And, uh, you know, whether you're playing beer league afterwards or things like that, but, um, yeah, and I know when I was in the national hockey league, um, you know, there is that social aspect. And I think for some people in a lot of ways it made them feel very uncomfortable that I that I didn't drink, that I didn't get involved. I wasn't one of the boys. I won't mention the team, but I, but I think it did it did hurt me that way that I, you know, I was kind of a on the on the outside because I didn't drink alcohol, but that was, that's fine.

That's, that's, that's me. I didn't have to, you know, and it's something that I work. with my clients you don't have to you know like a lot of the kids right now you know Minecraft fortnight call of duty I've been really really emphasizing how much this can have such a huge negative impact on your brain functioning and just because you know Joe Blow across the street is doing it doesn't mean you have to do it and I and I share my experience and I do I get a lot of looks like come on you've never touched alcohol before and it's like No, it's something that wasn't, you know, part of me. I would get my, I get my high now by going swimming in mountain glacier lakes.

And then the Wim Hof method that I'm doing now, the breathwork that I do. That's my kind of way of getting high on your own supply, as Wim would say. Well, Wimhoff, I've watched your videos of swimming in the lakes. and if anyone's tried going into an ice bath before or even when they had that, oh, what was it, the ice challenge years back where you had the polar, the polar plunge. That's right. Like, that is a shock to the system. And the breathing that comes with it, I can just like remember like vividly getting in a cold tub and the breathing that comes with it.

So it's interesting. You mentioned synonymous with hockey. I would agree 100% with you. I think it was Rod Peterson on here. He used to be the former voice of the Rough Riders. And now he's got his Rod Peterson show, actually. And he was saying that he got offered. So he loses his job with the Ruff Riders

and way with becoming essentially an alcoholic. And then he quits being an alcoholic. So he's sober now for many, many year and loses his job with Rough Riders and gets offered a job with an NHL team. Then they find out that he doesn't drink and they basically stop talking to. And then, you know, it goes along and he talks more about it. I'm not trying to crap on the NHL by any stretch imagination. Just that drinking is a way you find out about people, right? it kind of lets their guard down and you kind of have this.

I'm assuming that the cigar room once upon a time was the same thing, you know, like it's just like little club. And if you get inside of it and you have a cigar, you kind of, it's a safe space. And alcohol for a lot of people has become, you know, we've been drinking for a lot of years of the human experience. And it's a safe space for a lot of people. Now, does it get abused? Absolutely. Is there a lot of negative that comes with it?

Oh, yeah. And so for you, I find it, I just find it unique. And I like unique. It's, it's interesting. And there's always a story behind why somebody thinks the way they do. And you're a guy who focuses a lot on the brain and how to strengthen it and how to treat it like a muscle that you work out and you build it and it takes time. And so I enjoy it and appreciate you sharing about your friend because things like that stick with people for a lot of a long time.

It did. It had a huge impact on my life. And a lot of my friends at the time, too. It was, I think we were, we were literally shocked. And his mom did, you know, mentioned afterwards, she, she did it purposely. She wanted to send a message to young people at that time. This is, this is unfortunately what can happen. And it sure made an impact on my life.

Well, I think, you know, I got three young kids and I think as soon as you become a parent, you worry about things, even when they're two years old, you're like, man, when they get to certain ages, like, how do you keep them away from X, Y, Z? Like, how do you stop them from doing the stupid things that most of us have probably done and survive? And I remember seeing a chart, the death rate between, I think it's like, for males, it's like 16 to like 22. the death rate just skyrockets. And then it comes way back down.

And there's this like window where, man, that's tough. And I don't know that's being a young kid and going to experience in things. I mean, you start working with young kids right away on how to strengthen their, I don't know, am I saying it right, John, when I say strengthen their brain? Absolutely. And on the other side of our clinic, a lot of people don't know, like, We have zone psych and then we have zone performance. And on the zone psych, I work with a lot of clinical cases.

So anxiety, depression. One of the biggest group of clients that we work with are ADHD clients. And particularly young ADHD clients, they're because their brain is really looking for stimulation. That's where their brain, literally it's not them, their brain is literally more vulnerable, more susceptible to electronics. And we've seen it at our clinic, you know, over the last since COVID time, the increase of screen time has dramatically improved, you know, dramatically increased.

And the problem is, and the next thing you know, it becomes this vicious cycle, Sean, like they, because they're not getting that good, deep restorative sleep. You know, parents now all of a sudden, okay, they're giving them, like we just had a client the other day in our office, where mom's giving melatonin. But here he is. He's playing three to four hours of call of duty before he goes to go to bed. And she didn't really catch like, she didn't know, oh, like this is the connection. And then my concern as a sports psychologist is where I tried to bring the sports psychology world, world into the ADHD world.

You know, Braden Holpey is probably one of the best clients I've ever had with regards to mental rehearsal. His ability to visualize and literally, you know, see it and move it. I mean, it's phenomenal. And I know this may sound like a leap, but when you look at these, you know, grand theft, auto, call of duty, they're from a first person point of view. And because the brain can't tell the difference between what's real and what's imagined, it's very susceptible. And I'm not saying there's a great debate out there. Does video gaming cause more violence?

But my argument, Sean, is if you keep seeing that message, keep seeing that message, keep getting repeated to you. I think it can start to just become part of you. Like it doesn't, you know, when you're seeing people, you know, like I was shocked when I watched this stuff. Like people just getting killed and killed and killed, but there's no consequences. But the scary part is, you know, these games and this is what, and I would encourage all parents and kids to sit down and watch this program

I'm called the social dilemma. I don't know if your family have seen it. Scared the crap out of me. Yeah. And the thing that, I don't know about you, Sean, but the thing that really blew me away about that show was this wasn't Joe Blow at the bottom of the totem pole at Google.

These were guys that were making, I'm sure, a substantial amount of money. And they walked away from it. And because of the ethical and the moral dilemma. And like, I've had a lot of kids. since I watched that show about, I think about a week ago, 10 days ago.

And I had no idea, like they're literally programming us. And so, you know, I want parents to know that screen time, especially for ADHD kids and in the hockey world, John, like what blows me away, I go around and I do a lot of these, you know, workshops for teams and parents and kids laugh. They literally, they literally, they, come on. Like you're stretching it, aren't you? And I think in the next 20 years, like when you were talking about your kids, I think in the next 20 years as a psychologist, I think that's going to be

one of the biggest issues that we're going to be dealing with. That's going to have serious, serious ramifications for mental health. And I call it electronics, YouTube, you're gaming, Instagram, TikTok, you name it, all of that. And it concerns me as a parent and as a psychologist. Well, the technology is only getting better too, John. Like the VR simulations, pretty soon you won't, I mean, you go down that rabbit hole. Pretty soon you won't be able to distinguish reality, real walking around here to what's in, when it's in a game because as that gets better and you can put a headset on and have an alternate

life. I mean, we all joke about, you know, when I was growing up, I'm in my 30s, 34, by no stretched imagination of my old. To some 20 year olds, I'm definitely over the hill, but to most, I'm still a young guy. When I was growing up, it was the Nintendo and it was pretty simplistic, right? Like, I mean, you're Mario, you jump over some things. I still remember the Atari. and like just like simple simple simple now you know like we we joke around like my oldest brother's 10 years old or me and he'll get playing a baseball game and you can do career mode heck they brought that out probably 10 years ago right where you can have a person in a game and like lead an alternate life that just kind of escapes your life and and allows you to just go into again heck and I'm not

judging anyone because sometimes you just need to just need to decompress and get away and video games and social media and everything else are lending that to us on a minute by minute basis. And the thing that always scares me about the screen time is your phone now will tell you how much screen time you have. And it can be hours upon hours and you go, oh, yeah, that's right. And you almost flick it away like that isn't a big deal. But it's like, well, it says here that you spent four hours a day on your phone. That should be alarming. And the research that I've, I just did a presentation for parents on ADHD and Wednesday, Sean, and all the research that I did leading up to that presentation is anything more than two hours a day really makes your brain vulnerable.

Vulnerable to what? So what happens is you get these dopamine, you get the serotonin. get you get the chemical releases and so you get this hit and then guess what your brain wants more and then next thing you know it it you know and i've had people come on john it's it's a half an hour it's you know and next thing you know it's it's going up and up and up and i mean learning if you're not getting a good deep restorative sleep learning issues um you know if you're sitting in front of the computer all day. You know, they've shown obesity, the blue light.

You know, here I am wearing glasses. It has a lot of issues with regards to, you know, vision. There's so many issues that research has shown. But the one that scares me the most is, and especially for athletes, is it produces a lot more slower brainwave activity. So if you're going up the level, you know, and you know this better than anybody from Adam A to Peeb, AA to BAA to BAA to BANME, well, guess what's happening to the game? It's getting faster and faster and faster. And if you're doing something that is making your brain slower, guess what it's going to be vulnerable.

That translates onto the ice. Big time. And so it's to me, you know, we've got involved with companies now like neurotracker, synaptic reflection, all these. these cognitive perceptual and what I would say to any of the kids, why don't we do something that's healthy for your brain rather than harmful? Let's do something that's going to strengthen your brain, whether it be in the classroom or whether it be on the playing surface. All the research that I've ever read or come across is it's like you said, you don't get rid of a behavior, you've replaced it with a better choice. And that's what I'm trying to encourage

kids is just make them first of all make them aware of the dangers and what i got from that social media that social dilemma i couldn't believe it john like they're literally to the second you know monitoring how much time you're on a screen and then they use it against you i mean um my staff member she she just joined about a month ago and already within that month like yesterday i was on facebook just to check a campaign that we were looking and sure enough her name came up as one of the ad friends. So like with literally within a month, like they've got information on you.

It's almost like for me, you know, I'm 54, excuse me, it's like big, big brother. And it's like, I don't know,

it's, yeah. Yeah, well, we've all had the experience. I don't think, I don't think anyone in the modern era now

with a phone. attached to their hip hasn't had the experience where you mention Kellogg's Corn Flakes, we'll use something really random, and within a day, within a minute, whatever the time frame is, for that for Kellogg's Cornflakes. And you're like, well, that was weird, but you chalk it up to like, like, oh, that was just whatever. But the more you go and dig into it and start to, you know, like the social dilemma, the more you start to look at it, you know, the more you start to look at, you're like, oh, man. But how do you get away from it, right?

When the world functions around it now. Well, and the other thing that you mentioned, Sean, is it's the old cliche or phrase, you know, what you don't use, you lose. And a lot of the schools now are going paperless. And if you're not using this, you're going to your cursive skills. How good are your cursive skills, John? it got a lot worse it has got a lot worse

you know when when I when I had to write the SAT ACT the two tests there to get down in the States one of the one of the the skills that you had to do on the test was just write a paragraph in cursive I remember that I remember being like

God I'm like all right and I wrote it and I thought you know I thought my cursive was pretty poor, but I wrote it all. I mean, it was like riding a bike. I had to rethink about some things. And when I handed it in, that was back in 2006, 2007, one of those two years. The lady said, wow, your cursive is really good. And I remember thinking, if that's really good, imagine what everybody's moving to. Well, now, like, we had to take cursive by like grade four or five. We were taking cursive every day at a school. Now you talk about paperless. Well, there's no

cursive being, there's no cursive. Heck, I went to, you know, talking about even more paperless. We went to a hockey game and they're not using, right now, they're not using paper, fill out the teams. Everything's by computer, right? And I know that's a very small skill. Believe me, that is a small skill. But that's still a skill. And that's still using your brain to write out the teams and know how to put things in everywhere. And automation is great. But you start pulling away all those. I go back to what you said. If you don't use it. it, you lose it. Well, last

Monday, we had a soccer team in our cognitive perceptual training room. They're finished and it's around 8 o'clock at night and there's four of them and we're bringing this up and take a guess

how much on an average Sean, each of these 15 year old boys had been on their phone that day. That day, just that day? Yeah. Two and a half hours? Eight. Eight to nine hours.

Eight hours. Yes. Oh. And that's what scares me. And if you're playing soccer, and I know they've got into a lot of these debates about, you know, if you take heading, you know, out of soccer, you're literally, you know, ruining the integrity of the game. It's but you combine like to me you're doing something you're constantly banging your head and you know and there's literally days like we've had female soccer players are more vulnerable to heading than male and we've had literally coaches where they've just done a session that day on heading the ball and there have been situations that I've seen over. of the years where girls are coming in the following day with with headaches and and then again now if you start adding that other piece to it um it just concerns me that that's that's the part

that that really you know concerns me so if i heard that correct what you're saying is by us uh using technology for extended periods of time or using us for it using us for extended periods of time. Sure. Yes, sure. Yeah, absolutely. And then adding in bumps and knots to the head, those knocks are becoming more problematic than before? I believe so. Yes. And I thought, oh, the movie that Will Smith was, it was a concussion? Yeah, concussion, which is fantastic. You know, when I saw that, I'll be honest, I thought it was going to have more of an impact in the sports world. Well, what's your thoughts? I actually thought it was going to...

There's too much money. That's what I took from the movie. That's what I've taken from everything you want to talk about, whether you're talking politics or you're talking sports. When there's that amount of money involved, that is a big machine. and Will Smith's character, and I'm forgetting the doctor, which is terrible of me, but his character ran into that. And that's what you see throughout the movie. He does very good research, finds out a very troubling thing.

But, you know, they're trying. Professional sports is trying. Yeah. But part of the allure to professional sports and sports in general is, you know, football is a physical sport. Hockey is a physical sport. So the old part of me goes, well, what is hockey without hitting? What is football without the bump and crash? I mean, it's kind of archaic, but that's the beauty part of it.

But now what you're saying is, is as we rely more on technology, you're going to start to see more and more, or as technology uses us, you're going to start to see more and more of these issues come to the forefront because our brains essentially are becoming, I don't know if it's the proper term, John, but you're saying weaker. more susceptible. You know, you've got that, it literally is, in my opinion, digital heroin. And the argument that I had, because I work with a lot of kids all over the world. And the argument that I kept hearing all the time, especially during COVID, is, well, it gives them a form of connection with their friends. And you might, a lot of parents might get angry when I say this, but I literally had this one one parent. where I said, okay, would you willingly let your son or daughter go over to another friend's house, knowing that they were, you know, and we're talking 10 and 11 year old kids, knowing that they were going to smoke a bong,

you know, do a bong that day, because it was going to at least have them, let them have a social connection. She's like, well, absolutely not. I'm saying that's literally what this is. Like we've had, it's not uncommon in my office right now Sean especially with my ADHD clients where you're hearing six seven hours a day you know um and is that is that on parenting then John I like boy that's a you know that's a great question

I think um because you're talking about being judgmental to me I I I I'm reluctant to say this, but yes, because I think in some ways, you know, like, if mom knows that that young guy the other day was playing three or four hours of call a duty every day, right? I think in a little bit, I think I'll backtrack a little bit. I think some parents really don't know the ramifications that this can do to the brain. It's so like come on, it's a video game. It's not that bad.

But I think if all of a sudden the message gets out and we let people know, you know, how serious this is, but they still choose not to let, you know, to do something about it, then that that's to me, you know, like I always say like with my presentations, I can't tell you what to do. But what I want to do is give you the best, you know, all the information so that you can make a good informed, you know, choice. But we have seen it where all of a sudden the electronics now has become a babysitter. And that's where, you know, like even if there's a toddler in the grocery store, well, let's give them the device. So that'll keep them calm. Well, no, that's a great opportunity

to learn emotional self-regulation skills and being able to, you know, teach children how to socially interact in those situations rather than allowing it you know this device to you know to take over to try to do the work I think that great work like right from the get go about how to have social interaction and how to literally interact with the environment and humans you know sorry I got off track no no no I'm very passionate about this no it's it's it's it's perfectly fine. This is what a podcast is all about. This is what I love. Right here, I told you I was in my happy place before we started. So you can't, I love a good discussion. I love learning things. I think, I think, you mentioned judgmental. So we'll use me as a case

and point. I got three young kids, four, four and under. And at times, you know, both myself, my wife, both work full-time jobs. So you come home and you're, trying to put on supper, you're trying to do this, you're trying to do that. And to flick on the TV, you're absolutely bang on. It is a way to grab their attention so you can finish what you need to get done in order to carry on. And so I think, you know, when it comes to what's going on today, there's more and more families working two jobs, right? So you got parents going both ways, which isn't a bad thing. I'm not knocking on that whatsoever. I think it's great. I think that's, you know, I'm doing it in my life. My wife wants to be just as fulfilled as I do in a career and

trying to chase things. But one of the things that comes at the end of that is when you get home and you get your kids there, you have to be pretty in the moment to realize and understand that you can't just turn off your brain, give them the TV, and that way you get a few moments to yourself. That's what you're getting at because by doing that, you're setting up a lot of failure down the road. And you just don't understand it because you can't see it happen immediately. Like that takes time. You know, you talk a lot about the seven Cs, I think it is. And one of them is consistency. Well, what does consistency do over a week? Not really a whole bunch. I mean, everybody's been to the gym where you go to the gym for a week or two. You feel freaking awesome.

But if you don't continue to do that, it doesn't compound. Right. So you want to lose weight, let's take weight or you want to gain muscle. You go to the gym for two weeks. You might lose a bit of weight. Heck, you might feel good. But if you don't continue that trend for the next year, 10 years, that falls off pretty quick. Same thing can be said about a TV or a video game or anything. If it's once in a while, the effects, I would assume, wouldn't be so measurable. But when it becomes eight, nine hours a day consistently month after month after month, I can see where that adds up.

And I can see, man, that is a scary thought. For parents these days, I understand why it's easy, right? your kid goes downstairs and they're out of your hair oh that's good they're they're keeping themselves entertained but when the entertainment maybe has a very well has a downside that we just haven't fully understood yet i get what you're saying and i don't think you're taking the conversation away from something you're passionate about that's that's what a good conversation is all about something that people are passionate about well and i think it's you know you said you're at mid 30s i'm i'm you you know, mid 50s here.

And, but what I wasn't like you and I have life skills where we can have that self control and we can step back and, you know, monitor our behavior. I think, you know, to ask a 10 year old or an 8 year old or a 16 year old to have that. It's, I think you're asking a lot. And that that's that part again that you're getting those. if people, you know, I would encourage anybody to look at Stephen Kotler's work about the flow, the flow experience. And the type of chemicals that are released when you get into that flow state. And that's why, like, you know, to be outdoors, you can get into that natural high and beneficial for the brain. as opposed to, you know, that's the part.

I think a lot of the kids, I've had since some of the kids have watched this program. I think even now that they're more aware that this is what's going on, it's still difficult for them, John, to put that device down. Like the one that we hear all the time at our office is, John, thank you, thank you, thank you for making me aware of this. But what do I do instead now? Like, you know, so this, I said, what would be something? that you could do with your friends rather than doing, you know, call of duty.

Well, I'll go ride my bike. And, and then all of a sudden it's like, well, this one friend is not allowed to ride their bike. And, and, you know, well, I don't want to go ride a ride my bike, you know, by myself. And, and it's then you hear all these different things that come in that we're talking about healthy choices, healthy alternative choices. and then I hear all this, well, that's going to be harder. That's going to be, you know, this. It's going to be that. And so that's part of, I'm not an addictionist, you know, an addiction specialist by any means.

But these are the kind of things that like you mentioned about your, you and your wife. Like in some families, like I know in ours, like for that four, four o'clock, you know, window to six o'clock, no one's at home. Like there might, they're like, because both parents are working. And in that four, you know, that two hour window, okay, what, what's going on? Like, you know, and if that iPad is, is there, it's tough. Like, it's, it's a really tough dilemma for parents and for the kids. And I don't know if there's an easy, easy answer for it. I know, I know for hockey guys, I've literally seen, you know, in the, in the Western hockey league,

where guys, you know, they have the morning skate. And I might get myself into a lot of trouble with this. But I've had kids where they haven't had a sip of water, Sean, like not a sip of water. From the moment they woke up, they haven't had a sip of water. They haven't eaten anything. But guess how much time they've been on their phone prior to that morning skate? As soon as you wake up.

Yeah. And then next thing you know, they're going on the ice. Now, am I saying that that's going to cause a concussion? No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying it's making you more vulnerable. That's what I, and that's not just me. That's what the research is also is showing. And I think, you know, it's, I love what the league is done. You know, all the leagues are, they're, I think they're doing a way better job of, you know, managing concussions and all that. But I think there's a lot of stuff that needs to be on. on the front end of things in terms of preventing. You know, and the media stuff, the electronics, I think there's a lot of work that still needs to be done. Well, a couple of things that come to mind is the phone thing, specifically with kids, you know,

you're talking about trying to get them to do different things instead of call duty, that kind of thing, is it's kind of, it goes kind of back to where we started with the alcohol. The phone thing is kind of, well, social bonding. That's right. And once again, I look at my kids, right? And I've watched Social the Lemon and my wife and I have talked a ton about it. And we don't want our kids to be exposed to any of that, like, until they're able to handle it, right?

So what's that? I don't know. High school? Well, imagine the social pressure that's going to come in between those years. When the world, everyone's getting an iPad, everybody's got a phone, Everybody wants to know where everyone is at all times, blah, blah, blah. So the pressure on them is going to be no different than what I assume you've gone through with alcohol. The other thing you brought up is okay being by yourself.

And I think we all, you know, I'm obviously, I enjoy talking to people, a little bit of an extrovert. I like hearing things. But I think a lot of a struggle, including myself, with just being. being by yourself. I was thinking it was yesterday night. I took the dogs for a walk. Normally I listen to a podcast, an audio book, music. I don't like quiet. I like learning things. I like constantly on the go. And when I started reading about you a couple days ago, you talked a lot about quieting the brain and kind of being in the moment. And I went, you know what? I'm going to walk the dogs without anything on. Let's just see how that goes, right? Like, I mean, and it's, and it's,

it's a completely new experience. And I'm not sitting here saying it was spiritual or transforming, but just to understand how much technology we jam into the brain from the moment you wake up to the moment you go to bed is, you know, compared to what? I don't know. John, you tell me, is it 50 years ago? I certainly know by interviewing a lot of the people who are community pillars

from the Lloydminster area old farmers where they had no power. hour and an outhouse and right like the amount of information we're jamming in our bodies compared to what they did is completely night and day yeah absolutely absolutely you know and you look at those pictures um i always love when they show um kind of the history of the the making of brayden holpey as i might call it and there he is out in the middle and a farmer's field skating by himself just taking a puck and shooting into a net. It's, you're right.

Like, you're seeing, I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, Sean, but I think we're seeing less and less and less of, of that. Speaking of Braden Holpey,

him being a hometown hero from our area, Stanley Cup winner, Vesna Trophy winner, now a Vancouver Canuck, which is odd to say. you got to work with him from a very young age and I know in talking with Braden when he was on a few months ago at least he was in the bubble at the same time

he talked about being a young guy and having a temper and you helping him along with that for the listeners from our area could we talk a little bit about a young Braden Holbe working with you and the experience of that and what you've seen him grow and develop throughout the years. Where do I begin?

Just unbelievable work ethic. Very passionate. He wants to make a difference. I think he's going to be a great leader in Vancouver on and off the ice. He just goes about his business. For for Braden, you know, one of the seasons we talk about mental toughness is coachability. Braden is a very, very coachable guy. There's a lot of guys in the NHL where, you know, I'm sure you've seen this because you play pro is a coach might suggest an idea to them.

And they really, their ego gets up and they get angry. Brady, throughout his career, you know, we joked about it a long time ago that Braden, you're going to have a lot of, you know, goalie coaches, you know, and I think in Washington, he had five, six alone. And what made him so good is he would take

different ideas from different guys, you know, off and off on the ice. And that takes a special person to have that openness. And, you know, and Braden, oh my gosh what an athlete like what an athlete and you know when Mitch corn you know came in and and did a lot of you know significant changes to have that openness to try that um to me that just speaks volumes about you know who who braiden is and and the work that scott murray has done with him it'll be interesting to see how things go with with Ian Ian Clark another another goalie

coach. But Braden, you know, when Braden like was so good, I mean, like he was a like one of the best goalies in the Western hockey, you know, that ability to stay poised, you know, and that ability to stay calm, especially when things are going well. And I think that's where when I showed Braden that side. He was open to work on it. And I mean this. Like, and I've said this several times when Braden gave me the shout out a few years ago. I honestly, it was mortified because Greg did a phenomenal job, you know, teaching him the fundamentals. I mean, I'd never seen like, Braden was such a phenomenal skater. You know, and so when I started working with them with the Saskia Blades,

to have that openness to different things on and off the ice. And we did, I guess days, Sean, where we had, we didn't, we were doing ball drills in the hallways. And there he is, too, you know, like, their teammates are gone. They've been home for two hours. And there's Braden and Braden, you know, let's do it again, John. Let's do it again. It was like I want to like so in size like his perfectionism was like amazing. But at the same it was also he had to learn not to be so perfect.

And the hockey is not a perfect. And to step back and work on that part of his game and to have coachability. that's the thing and he's just no that's all i can think of is you mention about 10 things about brayden and i just think man when a kid like that comes along because not all kids are like that like i even think about myself right every once in while you hear somebody you know if you're like five inches taller you would have been in the show and it's like yeah would i have been i don't know like i hear the stories of And now Brayden Holpe is the absolute pinnacle of success in the goaltending world.

But when you hear those stories that go, man, those are special kids. You know, you hear the stories of Connor McDavid and his ability to just like always play. He always wanted to play and he always wanted to train. And most people aren't like that. They want to break. And I just feel like, and you would have saw it firsthand, I guess, John. So maybe the question is when that kid comes along, you got to, that must stick out as like, man, this is going to be special. This kid is special.

Well, I was really lucky because when I was in, when I was a goalie coach for the Cootney Ice, I had Brad Lowe, who's the head coach for the Oil Kings now. And then in Saskatoon, I had Dave Strewsh. And Dave was no head coach for the Regina Pats. And,

Sean, when you would watch Stroosh, like I would set up these drills with Brayden and Strooosh. And here's Struc, he's in his mid-thirty. no knees left. And, oh my gosh, the battle levels, the compete levels. Like, I was so blessed because I had such great assistant coaches at the time that would be.

And, you know, Brad played pro hockey, competitive guy. And, you know, here's these teenagers, you know, bring it on old band. And that all I did was set up the drill and then, you know, work on the mechanical part, the technical part. But oh my gosh, it was to sit back and watch these, you know, battles, you're like, and that's what made Braddon. Braden was so competitive. And he's like, you know, like, and they would make these games. Like, had nothing to do with me here. I'm sitting watching, sit back and I'm watching these guys. And, you know, I remember in Saskatoon, and I think I would hope, I hope guys have good memories of that. But, you know, guys would go down and practice and

take a shot on on Braden and I'd turn around and I'd say yeah I got that at Tim Horton's that this morning that freaking muffin you know maybe you maybe you need to go to the gym a little bit more and they turned around and did my goalie coach that there are a goalie coach just tell me that like that I'm a I'm a wist and so now I would you know do the chirpin I would do I do lots of chirping in practice and I got I wanted the guys to go down um you know and and and rip pox hard. Like I had an earlier experience like I was so blessed like being in Edmonton I'm not proud to say this,

but I skip school one day and I still can't remember how I got into the building. But I went down and I watched the Oilers practice. And we're talking this is when Andy Moog, Grant Fierre and all those guys, you know, and you got Curry, Messier, all these phenomenal. I don't think it was coincidence. that Andy Mogue and Grant Fierer were such great goalies because look who is shooting on them every day, right? Like you, and you got that kind of quality shots.

So one thing I always tried to do, you know, when I was coaching in the Western Hockey League, was, you know, we would have these fun drills. Like after practice, a lot of the coaches would give us that good half an hour, 40 minutes. And I wanted the forwards that like just, you know, like we'd have battles. Okay, if you lose, you got to do pushups. You got to do, you know, all this. stuff and we created a lot of battles and that's the part like for me you were talking earlier about the you know the after like that's the part that I know I really love all those little games

and the battles and and again the assistant coaches and I don't think it's coincidence that they've went on to be head coaches um they they just were so passionate and wanting to develop the goalies it was it was fun fun to watch and Braden was so so responsive to it one thing I want to ask you about is I've heard you quote Tony Robbins before and saying that success leaves clues. As a guy who has been around a lot of successful organizations, successful athletes, successful people, I mean, you've worked with, if I wrote that downright, I think you've worked with the ballet, the army, all types of athletes from all different spectrums, business people, entrepreneurs. So you've got to be around of what I would consider very successful people.

Has there been any clues left that you've saw or picked up on trends, similarities across, whether it is the person in the Winnipeg Ballet or it's the Braden-Holpeg goalie? The ability to focus, the ability to be in the moment. And again, all the research shows now that when you get into that flow, state when you get into the zone being able to focus be 100% absorbed into what you're what you're doing that's been whether you're a surgeon fighter pilot hockey player that just 100% absorption has been you know the Elon must like obviously I've never met the man but you know from the the moment he wakes up to the moment when he goes to bed, which I think is like four hours of sleep from what I've heard.

But he's just so, like so present. That's been the characteristic that I've seen it. And that's one of the reasons why I got into mindfulness because they've shown that, you know, mindfulness is literally weight training for the brain. And it can be a heat just turn now because everybody's using it. But a hack, like it can be a brain hack to allow people to, you know, get. get more present more into into the moment. So that's been the common denominator that I've really seen over the, you know, the last decade. And that's one of the things that that's why I teach meditation.

And you know, you're, you look, it's the first time I met you, you look like a big, strong, you know, burly guy. And you turn around and say, you know, hey, Sean, I want you to just go sit in the corner and just get quiet. and you have to show that guy why that would be, you know, like, because I always ask my guys, you know, like when they're playing hockey, what do you do all this training for? You know, whether it be power skating in the gym, cognitive perceptual, mental, whatever it may be. What do you do all this training for? And I always get the answer, well, to get better. And you just stole the words out of my head to get better.

Right. And that's true, but that's not the main reason. Like, if you go back and think of some of the people, best games you played that night, Sean, like throughout your career. And if you came off the ice and I'm interviewing you and I'm saying, hey, Sean, what were you thinking about tonight when you were playing? 99% of the time, guess what your answer is going to be? I wasn't. I was just doing what I do. I skate and shoot and pass and just do what I do. And so to me, when athletes are playing their best, when anybody's doing their best, and they've actually shown this now, you know, the prefrontal

cortex goes offline. You get into this quiet, quiet mind. And like you just mentioned the other night, just taking, taking the dogs for a walk. I would argue you were in that flow state. And that's, that's one of the things that I do a lot now is teaching client how to get into that, that type of practice. And it is a practice, the daily practice. It's uncomfortable to sometimes monitor your thoughts. I do it now. I started this podcast, John, back in February 2019. And I remember I used to listen. I used to do one episode a week. And I used to listen to every episode because I want to get better. I still want to get better. And what I couldn't get over was how often I didn't listen to the guest. And what I started doing, it's already happened to me probably five times since we started. It's like I, I I got a separate screen, right? So in theory, if we ever get bogged down, all of a sudden we're not talking anymore, I can go, oh, let's pick a topic and away we go again, right?

But I've found, and I could be wrong, there's only been a couple of guys who have proved this theory wrong, is that if you're in it, like you're talking about, be in the moment, you're going to pick up on something and let that actually, and the problem I got now is when I listen to people, I get too many ideas. I'm like, oh, my God, right? and it's trying to just declutter that so that you get down. But being in the moment, I think that's awesome. It's hard to do all the time.

It's hard. And maybe it's impossible to do. I'm not 100% sure. But to be in the moment and be engaged, I completely get that. That's the common denominator that I've seen. Is that they're engaged. They know how to just like focus in. Yeah.

Oh, that's cool. Well, I don't want to hold you here all day. We got the final little piece here that I do with all my guests. It's a crude master final five. A shout out to Heath and Tracy McDonald, sponsors of the podcast since the very beginning, believers in the podcast since the very beginning. It's just five quick questions, long or as short as you want to go. I got no time frame.

But I want to get you back to your Saturday and Halloween and everything else. So if you could recommend one book to the listeners or to myself, What's one book that's caught your attention lately or in the past? Can you see that, Sean? Breathe golf, yes. The one thing I love about this lady, she's from the UK because I get a lot of my hockey players. This is interesting. More and more guys, Sean, are getting open to meditation,

but you'll hear, okay, I'm going to pull out my insight timer. I'm going to pull out calm. I'm going to pull out headspace. And I have one American hockey league goalie. And he says, Johnny, I got it. I do this already. He says I use my head space every day. But the problem is with that is what are you going to do?

Like pull out your head space in that moment and say, wait a second, guys. I got to do my meditation. No, like what you want in my opinion. I think guided meditations initially are good because it helps it, you know, helps the client, makes it easier. But you eventually want to get it to the point where you can do it anywhere, anytime, any place on your own. So for me, the brief golf, and it sounds, even if you're not a golfer, you can take this, if you were a surgeon, you could read this book and take the principles from it and apply it to, you could take it in a apply to your your podcast um so that's and it's he's taking ancient ancient wisdom that has a science you know grounded in science now um so that that's one of the things that i really love about

that book um i i will gladly pick up a book i love a love a good new book so if you're suggesting it i'm going to have to sit down and read it now um if you could sit and do this where you sit across from another guy, one guy and pick their brain like I'm picking your brain. Is there a guy you'd like to do that with or gal for that matter? Greg Norman. Who is Greg Norman? He was a pro golfer. He was the great, the great, the white shark, great white shark.

Oh, okay. That's a new one. Okay. He, uh, the, I was like, to me to watch Nick Faldo and what Dave led better, I was a huge. huge golfer, like huge golfer. And I, in fact, I, this is going to sound bad. I was more of a golf, more passionate golfer than I was a hockey, hockey guy. And, you know, when Greg Norman had the epic collapse at the Masters and how that could that, that event could single handedly, you know, not just your, your sporting life, but your life. And how, how mentally resilient

and Craig Norman was to that. That's something I would love to hear how he was, you know, in my opinion, from what outside, like, you know, didn't let that get to him. That's a guy I'd love to interview. That's fantastic. How about someone you'd like to work with? If you could pick a golfer, current athlete, or anyone across the spectrum that's currently out there making things happen.

Is there someone that you'd like to, you know, sit down and work with them? Oh, boy. That's a great question, Sean. I love working with young goalies. I really, I love, so any of the new up-and-coming, I know that's going to sound big, but any of the new up-and-coming young goalie, like Carter Hearts, like who've got that, that passion, that drive, they really want to make a difference. I can't mention his name on the air, but I've got a guy right now that I love working with him.

He really works on every area of his game. So I love any of those goalies that are, I would say, 16 to 24. I love they really want to get to that next level. That's my ideal client. I love working with guys like that. And it's fun. It makes your day a lot of fun. Well, if you could speak, if we have goalies listening right now, young goalies,

if there's one piece that they get a piece of advice from you that you could give them to work on maybe say their mental game, what would be one piece of advice you'd give them? Well, it was interesting. I just watched the podcast the other day, Lyle Mast, unbelievable goalie coach, does a lot of work with head trajectory. it's a very foundational piece of goal attending. And here you got, I think there was 20 young guys at this, you know, symposium that they did it virtual.

I bet you there was guys, Sean, that walked away going, whatever. But I would say have an open mind because you're, you're going to, if you're a 10 year old goalie nowadays, like, you know, when I did it, like I maybe had one or two goalie coaches and that was it. There's, you know, like if a young guy starts at eight or nine, and if he does get to pro hockey, he might have 10 to 12 goalie coaches in that time, especially when you go to these hockey Canada, you got all these great goalie coaches coming. And that's what I would say to anybody.

Just you don't have to, you don't have to do everything everybody's asked me to do, but just have an open mind to hear different ideas and different suggestions, whether it be physical, technical, tactical, mental. And, you know, not to try to do a plug, but in goal. in goal magazine. That's the one thing I love about Hutch and Kev. They've literally assembled all the best

coaches in the world or nutritionists, anything to do with goaltending. To not go in. And I know there's pro, there's pro goalies. That's what I love about. There's pro goalies that go in and listen

to those podcasts because they still, you know, there's guys, again, can't mention names, but they're in their 30s. and they're still listening to that because they have that openness. They park their ego and they say, yeah, I want to just get better. Whatever I can do to stop more pucks, that's what I would say is having that openness, that coachability. That's a good lesson for anyone.

Anyone, it doesn't matter whether you're 30, 20, or 80. You want to get better every day. Constant, constant never-ending improvement, can I? That's right. That's right. your final one, a fun one, because you mentioned Wimhoff at the start. Where's the craziest place that you've Wimhoffed, done the Wimhoff method of getting in cold water?

Are you familiar with Edith Caval and Jasper? I can't say I am, but I'm going to look it up on a map like immediately. There's a glacier, angel glacier. It's, oh my gosh, it's hauntingly beautiful. I literally did the Wimhoff this summer in the Glacier Lake. It was minus eight, the water. And I went in there for five minutes. And to be in that glacier water was absolutely, yeah, it was spectacular.

It was amazing. Can I ask what is it about the Wimhoff method that A is attracted to, attracted you to it, but then on top of it, like, kept you going. Like, what was it? I mean, I'm assuming you like the mindset of what it's about, but after dunking yourself in cold water over and over and over again, what is it, what is it about that experience that has just obviously made you a huge fan of it? There's several things.

Like, from a physical point of view, I have just all the years playing hockey. had many knee surgeries. So when you're in the water, you get this analgesic. It's really helped me to manage my arthritis a lot more. That's one of the things. In Alberta, we have so many beautiful glacier lakes like Lake Minowonka, Upper Canaanascus, five lakes. So just like you were saying, Sean, the other night, when you were walking your dogs, like, So when you're in those lakes, you, that absorption, like it's, it's a meditative. You just feel the only way, and I'm not going to do it justice, is you just feel so alive. And for me, like I will go out in my backyard today and I'll go sit in the cold tub and you just get into this quiet mind.

There's just because you're so into your body, you're so into your senses. That's one of the things that I've loved about the Wim Hof is you literally get into your your senses. And then I've been really blessed. There's a company in Calgary called One Breath, Vincent and Leanna Krause. I think you should have them on their on your podcast. And the one great thing about their workshops is this sense of community. It's one thing to do the breathwork when you're doing it by yourself. But when you go to these workshops and you're surrounded by people now, obviously with COVID,

but when I've done these workshops in the past and you hear the energy level. And again, it's hard to describe in words, but that kind of bonding and community. And when you like, I've been blessed. My girlfriend, like Lake Wobamon is like 25 minutes away. And that when you share that experience with people, it's, it's truly amazing. And when you get people, it's so fun. Like our, like my, our two girls, we like, we love to go to Nordig. And both of them went in the river this year.

Like one of our 11-year-old girl, Sophia, she floated down the river with me. And she was terrified, but absolutely. exhilarated and you can just see your confidence level. So for me, when I've had a lot of great experience personally, but when you see these transformations in people, it's a little bit maybe, I don't know, maybe like the firewalk that Tony Robbins does or bursting through the panel. When you've been at these workshops and you see like, I can't do this, I can't do this, I can't do, no, no, no, no. And all of a sudden you're like, and you see this power. Like you just see this, unbelievable power come through people. It's,

it's cool to watch, man. It's fun. So the word shock comes up to mind. Like it's shock mindfulness. It forces you into your body because if you've ever sat in a cold tub, and I know I think I talked about this right off the hop, you can't think of anything else, but the what you're doing and why on earth are you doing it?

Because it's not the the first time, at least the first time for me, I don't know if the word enjoyable would be used. The feeling after, like coming out of the cold tub and how it made your body feel, was amazing. But actually forcing yourself in there and having to sit through, and I can't remember three, five minutes, whatever it was, man, the feeling your feet get is, you just can't recreate that.

So to me, it reminds me of like shocking yourself into going inwards because you have to. Like there's no choice in the matter. Well, and I think people learn a lot of times with anxiety and depression. Sometimes people don't want to feel that. And so they push away from it. And the one thing with the cold water is you start to mentally, physically, in every aspect, you learn to be with it. it and the more you're accepting of it, acknowledging of it, knowing that it's, when you know what goes up must come down. And when you can just be with it, that's, that's when I see, I've seen huge, huge breakthroughs.

You know, like, and I would encourage anybody. Like, I mean, there's, I've been in cold lakes for half an hour. I don't encourage anybody to go into Abraham Lake and Nordig for half an hour. But I, I, I, I, I, literally started to just over two years ago I started with 15 seconds of a cold shower 15 literally 15 seconds and I would just encourage like I love when I see kids doing this because they learn how to break through barriers and the beauty thing again going back to what we started talking about now we're that's a healthy alternative to sit in there playing call of duty and you can learn about yourself and you can be in nature and you can be out of doors and just have this beautiful experience, you know, where it doesn't cost you a sin.

Well, I tell you what, that's one heck of a way to end an episode because I agree with what you're saying and it makes me want to rethink my Wim Hof, a couple of experiences where it's a shock value, man. But before I let you go, how can people find you, John? You want to give your, if you're on social media, website, that kind of thing. Yeah. So we are, our company is called zone performance psychology. There's two branches.

There's our one website is zoneperformance.ca. And that's more the performance side of things. And then on our other, our clinical for concussion rehab, anxiety, ADHD, depression, migraines. It's zone, zone psych.com. We're on Instagram. Our phone number is 78080-5-6-4646. We offer free consultations. We want to let people know what we do and what we're all about.

And again, I can't thank you enough for allowing me to be on the podcast today. Well, no, it's been a pleasure. It's been an enjoyable hour. So thanks again and enjoy your Halloween. Hopefully we'll talk soon. Okay, take care. Thank you so much. Hey folks, thanks again for joining us today.

If you just stumble on the show and like what you hear, please click subscribe. Remember, every Monday and Wednesday a new guest will be sitting down to share their story. The Sean Newman podcast is available for free on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, and wherever else you find your podcast fix. Until next time.