Shaun Newman Podcast - Ep. #141 - Chicago Blackhawks Gerry Pinder

Episode Date: December 30, 2020

Gerry "Mouse" Pinder had an interesting journey. He played for the Canadian Olympic team in an era where they trained together all year long; then making his debut with the Chicago Blackhawks & suiting up for the California Golden Seals (not many can say that). While in the WHA he spent time with Cleveland, San Diego & Edmonton. Always enjoy hearing the stories from back in the day such a cool perspective. Let me know what you think   Text me! 587-217-8500

Hi, this is Brandon Holby. Hey, this is Tanner, the Bulldozer Bozer. Hi, this is Brian Burke from Toronto, Ontario. This is Daryl Sutterin. Hello, everyone. I'm Carlyagro from SportsNet Central. This is Jay On Right. This is Quay-O-Dick, coming to you from Tuffman, Saskatchew. Hey, everybody, my name is Theo Fleary.

This is Kelly Rudy. This is Corey Cross. This is Wade Redden. This is Jordan Tutu. My name is Jim Patterson. Hey, it's Ron McLean, Hockeynet in Canada, and Rogers' Hometown Hockey, and welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome back, folks, to the podcast.

Excited to have you here. We got a great one on Tap for you today, a little throwback. I hope everybody had a great Christmas, is looking forward to 2021. I'd be lying, you know, I was saying this the other day that, you know, as tough as 2020 has been with all, everything that's been going on, the podcast has we've been able to have a lot of fun. You know, if you've been listening since the start, one of the core things I wanted to do, was to sit across from every single guest because I'm a firm believer in that part of the interaction. And, you know, COVID made us all adjust.

And by adjusting, you've seen some of the names that have come across and that wouldn't have been possible without what's going on currently. So I'm a little bit hesitant to write 2020 completely off because from a podcast to experience and growth and everything else, it's been a lot of fun being able to sit across from a lot of these names in 2021. I've been having a little bit of fun on social media throwing out, you know, who do you guys want to see? And there are some big names out there that people want to see, you know, whether you're talking one of the guys on my top five, a guy named Steve Eisenman,

or you're talking, you know, Brett the Hitman Heart, to throw it on a different completely, you know, on a 180, so to speak, that's not exactly a hockey player, is it? But they'd be cool nonetheless. I mean, Wayne Gerexky, of course, hops in there. But there's just been a ton of people throwing out great ideas. And I tell you what, if 2020 taught me anything, it is that by being persistent, sticking to your guns, and trying to just push through some of the BS

or some of the brick walls that have been put up on the other side, man, all of a sudden one day you're just sitting there and you got Don Cherry that just, you know, like if you've been listening, popped up a couple episodes ago. Glenn Healy, which was just Monday's episode was fantastic. And I can tell you that January is going to come in with a bang. We got some great ones coming for you. I'm excited about it.

And I think the possibilities for 2021 are, you know, sky's the limit. I'm going to definitely push as hard as I can. If you've got suggestions, make sure you hop on social media or track me down. Visit shawannumann podcast.com and fire them off. I'm up for anyone you want. Let me know and I'll see if I can make it happen. But before we get there, and before we get to today's episode, let's get to today's episode sponsors. I just got confirmation that Profit River, led by Mr. Clay Smiley, are hopping back on for 2021.

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Send me your info with a little blurb about what you're looking for. And we'll get you hooked up. 2021, just around the corner. Now, let's get on to that T-Barr-1 Tale of the Tape. Originally from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. He played for the Canadian national team at the end of the 60s going to an Olympics. He played 223 games in the NHL with the Chicago Blackhawks and California Golden Seals. He then played an additional 353 games in the WHA for the Cleveland Crusaders, the San Diego Mariners,

and of course the Emmington Oilers. I'm talking about Jerry Pinder. So buckle up. Here we go. This is Jerry Pinder. and welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Well, welcome to the Sean Newman podcast today. I'm joined by Mr. Jerry Pinder.

So first off, thanks for hopping on with me. Yeah, thanks to the call, Sean. I know you had some of my good pals on, so I'm looking forward to it. Yes, we've had Mr. Cheever's and we've had Mr. Skip on. They both talk very highly of you. So I've actually had some buddies who've been around when you three have been in the same room together.

And I hear it's quite hilarity ensues is what I've been told. Well, I think it's pretty much proportional to the amount of pops we have when we're doing something when we have a get-together. That's probably fair. And I should probably mention to all the listeners, thanks to Skip for hooking this up. Skipper has been pretty good to me. He's been willing to put me in contact. with some people like yourself who can share some stories from the past and look forward to diving in to your career and some of the places you've played.

Yeah, I'm happy to pass along whatever I can. Well, let's start with Saskatoon. You're born and bred in the Saskatoon area. Let's start with just like, what was growing up playing hockey in Saskatoon? Saskatoon like for you from the early days? It was the greatest place I can think of to be born and raised. And sports was a huge part of our family. And, of course, my brothers and I all played a lot of hockey.

I played with my brother Herb with Saskatoon Blades and with my brother Herb on the Canadian Olympic team. and my brother Dick and my brother Tom both played pretty serious hockey. So it was just the thing to do. And it was a small city at that time. And everybody knew everybody. It was very competitive. And I can't say enough good things about being raised in Saskatoon.

Well, did you grow up playing with a helmet on, Jerry? Let's start real simple here. Yeah, that's a good question because people have been wearing, players been wearing helmets for so long that they probably wouldn't understand this. But my seventh year, as a pro, I finally put a helmet on. I got clubbed over the head in training camp and had about 10 stitches in my head. And the doctor told me I had to sit out a couple of days of training camp. The doctor told me I couldn't go back unless I put a helmet on because of the stitches and so on.

I did. And I never took it off. but in playing minor hockey in Saskatoon, playing junior B hockey in Saskatoon, playing Junior A for the Saskatoon Blades, and then going to the Olympic team for a couple of years and then six years in pro before I wore a helmet. So I never wore it until I was, what, 26 or 7 years old.

Were you ever, like I guess not knowing any different, right? Today I'd be almost nervous to go on the night. Well, I know I would be. To play a hockey game without a helmet on would be nerve-wracking. back then obviously you just went and played but were there you know like were guys dropping you know you mentioned getting cracked on the head with a stick was that commonplace or not so much it wasn't it wasn't commonplace in minor hockey in saskatoon when i went to the uh western junior league it it was more prevalent i mean the rules were were way different than they are

day and and there was literally no suspensions. And so, you know, if you got whacked over the head, that was tough luck. And I mean, the flip side was true. If you whack somebody over the head, it was tough luck for them too. There wasn't much going on in the way of penalties. And then, um, the Olympic program I was in for two years was, was, we were in Europe most of the time. And it was pretty clean hockey on big ice surface. Big, big ice surfaces in. So harder to, heard to get your shots in. And then the National Hockey League was pretty

brutal. And that was the time when Boston won their 1970 cup and 72 cup and they were a very tough, mean team. And then Philadelphia came along and won 74 and 75 and they were really tough and really mean.

And that was kind of the era in 75, 76 when people started wearing helmets because of because of the concern for what might happen to your head. Yeah, for obvious reasons. For obvious reasons. Well, I'm curious about your time,

I don't want to skip past the blades because you had a healthy start to your career there. You set franchise records. I think you guys started in the SjHL and then switched one of the years, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, my first year was the Saskatchewan Junior League in my second year, I guess I was 17.

And we went kind of rogue and the league went rogue and Edmonton Oil Kings came in, Calgary came in, Brandon was in, and that was called the Canadian Major Junior League, but that was the official start of the Western Hockey League. So that was, the league expanded quite a bit after that going out to the West Coast in Colonna and going down to the states in Portland and Seattle and Tri-Cities and so on. But my second year in the league, we were the original Western Hockey League. Well, what do you remember about the original season of the Western Hockey League?

All these different teams, the travel. You know, I've had a lot of younger guys come on, even guys that are still currently playing in the dub. You know, one of the favorite questions is the bus trips. some of the antics on there and and just how much travel they do in that league, how long they're on a bus trip for, especially now going out to the West Coast and the states, like you say.

What do you remember about that first year in the Western League? Yeah, I mean, that's a good point. The travel was really tough. And we were in a most of the time in a smaller bus. no radio, no TV, no, not much room to place your, your suitcases and so on. It was underneath the bus and no place to sleep and so on. And I was in my first year of university in business at the University of Saskatchewan. So I had many, many nights coming home at getting off the bus at two or three in the morning.

And the thing I remember most of all is my father getting me up at seven to go to school. So there was no shortcuts, no sleeping in, no nothing. And it was tough, but we had a really good team, a great bunch of teammates. We had an awesome power play. And that was in a way that toned down the destruction in the league that's sticking over the head and the elbows in the head and so on. it turned it down for our team because by about Christmas time, the rest of the league was starting to figure out we had a heck of a power play. And so they had to figure another way to stop you besides playing real dirty hockey.

So that worked our advantage in that event. But it was a tough league, a very tough league. Well, that second year, you put up 140 points in like 55 games. Yeah, I was, I played on a heck of a line. and the power play, we had big, strong, centerman, Dale Fairbrother, Bernie Blanchett from Edom, Meota was on the right side. And then my brother, Herb, was a key on the power play along with another one of our defense. And I believe was Larry Tronstadt.

And we see, in those days, it wasn't like they're trained now. You'd take 45 minutes, 50 seconds, 45 seconds, 50 seconds, 60 seconds. on the power play and then you get off and they change. We played almost the full two minutes on every power play all year. So it was quite a bit different. And we racked up a lot of points and a lot of wins from our power play. What do you like about the game now? Because, I mean, not what do you like?

I shouldn't say it that way. Like back then, it was a tough, mean game to use a couple of your words. And now, I mean, you can't even whack a guy. And I'm not saying that's wrong or right. But that is, you know, over a, what did that be? 50 years span, the game has really changed. It's really more, you know, the skill level, the speed. We hear about it all the time.

But you're a guy who played and put up an amazing amount of points and played through the tough, rugged error of it. What do you miss about that time compared to now? Oh, that's a really good question. I mean, I was used to that style of play at 17 years old. So I didn't know what it was like to play in what it would be like to play in today's current national hockey league. But as it relates to the rules, they haven't changed the rules. They've made new rules. For instance, your stick can't come above your shoulders.

We used to carry our sticks pretty high when somebody was running at us, because that was your only protection. If you don't get your stick up, you're going to get run over and hurt badly. And so you learned that pretty early. Now you can't do that. The interference issue, you know, you can't interfere with a forward moving in to the offensive zone anymore. And that's another new rule. It's a big deal.

And I think by and large, the rule changes have been very, very good. But there's a few of them that I have a little, you know, I kind of have a little doubt about. One of them is how they call goalie interference, you know, and there was no such thing in those days. And as it relates to using your stick or your elbows or whatever, and like we used to do, there were no, there were no suspensions really in those days. So if you did something really bad, you know, you might get a 10 minutes. misconduct. But there was no such thing as suspension. So the suspensions have really changed the

way the kids play now in the National Hockey League because you can't get away with doing anything stupid. And they have, I mean, don't forget, they have two referees where we played my whole career all the way through pro was one referee. So they haven't got, they haven't got eyes in the back of their heads. And you could get away with a lot more than now two referees. You got one, one deep and one not so deep in the offensive zone, one out by the blue lines. So they can see everything that's going on. And I think the changes are good for the game.

They're really skilled kids now. And they're, I mean, they can skate. You know, in the old days, they never had four lines. We had,

we dressed maybe 10 forwards and five defensemen and two goalies. So, you know, your ninth, eighth, ninth forward, maybe couldn't shoot the puck very well, maybe couldn't skate very well. Well, now you got your,

some of your, fourth lines are just loaded with really good skaters who can really shoot the puck. So that part of it's changed a lot. And you've got, you got usually six defensemen on each team who can play. And we went with four defensemen every game for 50, 60 games in junior. And then four, maybe a little bit of five defensemen all through my pro career. So it's really changed a lot. And by the way, I think for the better. You've said a couple things there. I got a, I got, to follow up on. Did you say that you were talking about goalie interference? You didn't have goalie interference. So were goalies free, if they were out of their crease, you could run them

over? Yeah, a lot of that went on. And there usually wasn't a penalty for it because you could sort of fake it that you didn't mean to do it. And the flip side of that, I mean, that sounds funny, but that's the way it was. And the flip side of that is that you had several goalies in the league who were pretty wicked with their stick too. So you had to be careful on that side. But you could only do so much before you'd get what was coming to you. And that was the equalizer for the goaltenders. Who was the goalie you didn't go around because of his stick?

well you know in in when i jumped from the national hockey league to the world hockey association you've had cheesy on your podcast i understand yeah i haven't talked to him about it but he could wield his stick pretty well and when we jumped and he was in boston when i was in chicago and so he had to be a little bit careful around their net and then when we joined forces in the first year of the world league and played together for four years um you appreciate the fact that he could clean out the front of his own net because he was he was really good with a stick I mean he was a great goaltender good puck stopper and he could take care of himself so he was one of the ones that in junior I don't know I I think 70% of the goaltenders were like that

so you well you could you could interfere with them all you want there was a penalty to pay if you did a little too much so it was an equalizer for them The other thing, oh man, I could just imagine how tenacious you'd have to be with that old stick. But I mean, by the time I was going through junior, there was hardly much of that left. It's way harder than it was now. But, you know, you think of how far it's come even by the time I was in the midst of minor hockey. It's gone a long way. The other thing that sticks out is for defense in the national hockey, they would run,

2D pairings all game long? Yeah, when I joined Chicago, Dougie Jarrett and Bill White, we got in a trade from Los Angeles, Keith Magnuson, who I grew up with in Saskatoon, playing against, he came out of Denver and Patty Stapleton, Whitey Stapleton. Those were our four guys who played almost exclusively,

Sometimes we had a Paul Schmere was on that team for a couple of years and he anybody was hurt, he played a lot. But it was almost exclusively 4D for every team. You know, Boston was a really good team then. And they had, of course, they had ORA who played at least 40 minutes a game. And they had Don Auri, Dallas Smith and maybe Gary Doak were there for defense. So they ran hard with four, but mostly, mostly three and a half because Orr played 40 minutes a game, which I know it's hard, it's hard to understand now, but that's the way it was.

Oh, and you got a guy like Orr, I mean, let the guy play. I mean, why not? Yeah, you probably got a lot of good information. I'm cheesy on him, but I've never played against anyone like that. and I've never seen since I retired anybody. He's the best player ever. And no, I don't know who's in second place, but they're not really that close to O.

That's how good he was. And by the way, that's not a knock on any guys like Gretzky's unbelievable. When I played in Chicago, Bobby Hall was Stan McKee. They were unbelievable. Montreal had Bellevone in the late stages of his career. Lefleur was outstanding. But there again, Phil Esposito, it was terrific in Boston. But again, you know, Orr was so good.

We played them in the playoffs in the semifinals, my first year in the league. And we had just beaten Detroit four straight and Boston beat us four straight. Orr was killing a penalty. I'd never seen this happen before. And I don't know that I've ever seen it since. but he got the puck in his own end and carried it all the way up the ice through two or three guys

went around our net in Chicago he's killing a penalty and he goes all the way back to the Boston end with the puck so he'd been around the world in about 30 seconds and still had the puck in his own end it was amazing

and I understand he did that more than once because other people have said they saw him do the same thing and I'm sitting on a bench watching this going holy smokes we better decline the next power play Well, you bring up my, I wasn't old enough to watch Bobby.

But on Christmas morning growing up, we always got Don Cherry's newest Rockham Sockham. And in the first one, I believe, maybe second, one of the first two, is Bobby Orr embarrassing the Atlanta Flames. And it's on a penalty kill and he's standing behind the net, but nobody wants to chase him. And then he finally winds it up, goes end to hand, scores, and puts his head down because he knows he just embarrassed the flames. That's the famous line from Don Cherry. And I remember watching as a kid over and over again going like, that's pretty impressive. But hearing you guys tell these stories is, you know, you're right. Like when was the last time you saw anyone do such a thing in the NHL?

I certainly never seen it done. Well, it was unheard of because even when you're killing a penalty, you get an opportunity in the offensive zone. You're going to try and score. Well, he didn't even try and score. He was trying to get rid of the two-minute penalty and get back to five on five. So he took it all the way back into his own end. And, you know, I was thinking about it after the series was over and I thought, wow, that was a very smart thing for him to do. He wasn't worried about scoring a goal.

He just wanted to keep the puck out of his own net. So he kept the puck for almost the full two minutes. Pretty good way to do it. So when you talk about, or you talk about just thinking the game, obviously, it was very smart. But on top of that, his skating ability handling the puck was just on another level. Yeah, it was. I mean, his skating was on another level and his thought processes were on another level.

He had a great shot. And the other thing that really sticks out about Oar was his strength. I think he, I don't know, he probably played it about six feet, you know, five, eleven or six feet. But from the waist down, you couldn't stop him. He was so strong. And that was all part of being a good skater, but he was also, you know, there's a lot of fast players who aren't as strong from the waist down,

but he was really hard to get a hold of from the waist down. Just incredibly strong. And I think that gave him the edge in terms of his ice time as well. He could handle 40 minutes a game, whereas most guys, if they played 30, that was quite a bit. Yeah, I'm trying to even think of a defenseman who played similarly to way he did and logged that many minutes. Like the only guy in my era that there's two of them that come to mind. Pronger, Chris Pronger played a lot of minutes. You know, we got to watch him here in Eminton, but he didn't, he was efficient.

He didn't race up and down the ice. Like he was an efficient big body. But the other guy was Scott Niedemeyer. He's probably my favorite defense I ever got to watch because he would attack the offensive zone and somehow be the first guy back to make sure there was no odd man rushes. But I'm not so certain he's even, you know, once again, he wasn't playing 40 minutes a game. He was logging some serious minutes, but I mean, everything on top of what Orr's done and then to play 40 minutes doing it is just crazy.

Yeah, I mean, you make a really good point on Scott Neidemeyer. There's been some pretty good defensemen come through the league. Ray Bork is another good example, logged a lot of minutes. But Niedemeyer was pretty darn good offensively. And he played the game from the red line into the offensive zone similar to Orr. in that he was a very good skater. He was a big, strong guy and so on. But the comparison isn't really fair to Scott Needhamyer because Orr was that good.

You know, he was so much better than everybody else. And that's Scott Neidemeyer is a heck of a player. And Ray Bork's been a heck of a player. And there's a lot of really, Larry Robinson was a very good defenseman. Sir Sevard was a really good defenseman. And those guys all deserve a lot of credit. It's just that Orr was in the class by himself, really. Well, I want to talk to you about this Canadian national team.

Your Olympic go, you've mentioned it off the hop a little bit. Yeah, just you got to leave me through this. You go from playing with the Saskatoon Blades. In the meantime, do you get drafted in the NHL or is it rate to the Canadian national program? Like, how does this all kind of fall in? Well, there wasn't a formal draft in those days. You were owned by the area that you lived in. And like Moose Jaw Canucks were the Blackhawks, Sastroon Blades,

were the L.A. Blades in the Western League, but the affiliation was with the Blackhawks. Regina Pats for the Montreal Canadiens. So when I was 18, I'd had that pretty good year in junior. And my brother also had a very good year. He was two years older than I was. And we were invited to the tryout for the Canadian Olympic team, which was a full-time team based in Winnipeg. It was started four years earlier, five years earlier in University of British Columbia by Father Bauer.

Father Bauer came from Toronto State Mike's junior team where they had a very successful program and had this long-term vision of the Olympic program and put it together out in UBC. And then a few years later they moved to Winnipeg, a full-time team there. most of the guys were in school at the University of Manitoba. And so when I was 18 and my brother was 20, we were invited, Herb and I were invited to try out. Jackie McLeod had largely taken over the program. And we were invited from the blades

because of the years that we had to try out. And the training camp started at about August 1st. So we went to camp, and the camp was about a month long, and then shortly after that team started playing games and even went to Europe for two or three weeks in October of that year. That was the fall of that was a fall of 1967 because in the new year the Olympics were on in Grenoval, France. And we were invited to try out. And we both had pretty good camps.

And I would say pretty fortunate to make the team. But we did. And so I had two years of junior left. And my brother had just finished his final year of junior, and it was a great fit for us. I could have gone back to junior if I didn't make it, but perhaps they might assign me in the Central Pro League then. I'm not sure. I didn't test that, but we both made it, and we were full-time students at the University of Manitoba and full-time players in the Winnipeg, in Winnipeg on the Canadian Olympic program, which, I don't know, we played maybe 50, 60 games a year. A lot of them in Europe against Finland, Sweden, Russia, Czechoslovakia then. It wasn't a Czech Republic.

And, you know, we had a tough time when we got back to Winnipeg because we'd missed a lot of school. But the professors at the University of Manitoba were very, very good to us. And, you know, we made it through. We made it through our years. I was there two years and passed my classes both years. I wasn't an A student, but I got through. and we missed a heck of a lot of school. And another thing that was really interesting,

Jackie McLeod was the coach of the Olympic program. And it was a high-end program. I think I could make the argument that our Olympic team would have made the playoffs in the expansion division in the National Hockey League. We were that good a team. And a lot of the guys had been in the program for three and four years. Frannie Huck, who's a legend in the,

in the Saskatchewan Junior League, I think he scored 85 goals one year or something. And he was on the team. I ended up playing with Frannie for a lot of the first year. But we had a very, very good team. And we played Detroit twice in exhibition. They beat us like 5'4 and 5'3. And then we played St. Louis Blues.

We beat them twice. We played L.A. Kings. I think we beat them twice. And we played a few Western Pro League teams, which we beat Hanley like six, seven, eight to one. So we had a pretty good club. Well, it's just in my time frame, I've never, that model sounds like the Soviet model of putting together a group of kids and letting them play as a team and then taking them in the Olympics. Where in my lifespan, it's been the Grexky of the world or the Stevie Eisenman or whoever the group is selecting your. Nash or your Olympic team to go off to the Olympics, so to speak.

When you talk about going to school at the U of M and playing hockey for Canada, were you guys then, so you didn't play like, it wasn't like you had every weekend games coming up, would you just go off and play Don the Canadian jersey and fly over to France and play a couple games and then come home? No, that was the tough part with school because every time we went, like the first, the first year, including the Olympics, which we were gone for three weeks at least, maybe more, we would play probably six, seven games. You know, we'd play two in Prague in Czech Republic, and we'd play one time we played two in

Finland and Helsinki and Tomp. Then we went, we were in Sweden, in Stockholm, played a couple there. We went to Norway, played a couple there, played a game in Paris on the way home. And so that would have been seven. We were seven or eight games. And we were close to three weeks, get back. And that was a tough part with school. He had a lot of catching up to do.

But at the same time, you had to be at practice at five o'clock at the Winnipeg Arena. So there wasn't much spare time going on in those days, that's for sure. How was the three-week road trip, though, in Europe? Well, I was pretty young. And, you know, I needed nutrition and eat. property and so on. That was the toughest part for me because most of the guys were maybe say four years older than I was and they were big strong mature guys and I wasn't quite there yet. So I, that was the part that was tough on me was eating property because you're eating strange

foods. And each country had different foods. And it wasn't like I was usually, you know, my usual steak or something like that that we used to do. So that was a tough part. But at the same time, you know, we played on those big rinks over there. They were all 100 by 200 when the rinks in the NHL were like 185 or 190 feet long. And so in preparation, I didn't know it at the time, but in preparation for a professional career in the National Hockey League, that was the best thing I could have done because I think over the two years it really helped my skating. You had to really go, be able to go to get to somebody on a 200-foot rink and 90 feet wide. And so I learned a lot and Jackie McLeod was an excellent coach. I learned an awful lot from him. So that, you know,

there was a lot of good things about those two years, including the fact that I was able to get two more years towards my business degree, which proved to be pretty important when I retired. So all and all wonderful and especially in I guess it was February of 68 and we played in the Olympics in France and Grenoval in the mountains in the eastern the eastern side of France near Switzerland and that was a big deal I mean I I remember every moment about it that was before I'd turned pro so now in those days there was no no professionals allowed in the Olympics and even though the Russians and the Czechs for sure were what we would term as professionals because they were full-time hockey players. Russia mostly from the Russian, we're in the Russian military

and therefore had all the time they wanted to play hockey. They didn't do anything military. All they did was play hockey. But they wouldn't allow the United States or Canada to have any professional players. And that's why Father Bauer's concept was so good and Jackie McLeod took it over

and it was a wonderful concept. And again, in 68, we, We had a heck of a team, really good team. So what was the Olympics like that? Well, we were under lockdown, you know, for, I don't know, about two and a half weeks, I think it took. And we were in an Olympic village. We were in a high rise that, I don't know, we're up pretty high in the high rise. I don't remember what floor, but we ate in, we ate, you just walk out your door and walk a block.

And there's Olympic Village where there were a big restaurant and you get all kinds of different. food and anything you really needed. It was it was a tough grind because the sleep the sleep part was difficult. It was very exciting to be in the Olympics and get proper rest was hard. And we were a real good bunch together. We were like I say with Jackie, we were in Olympic Village. You're under lockdown. So there's nothing you can do that would be negative towards, towards your training or playing hockey.

So it was it was a pretty good atmosphere. you know, there was an opening ceremonies which we weren't allowed to go to because we played the next day and you had to stand around on your feet the whole afternoon in the opening ceremonies. The interesting thing, we played the final event of the 68 Winter Olympics. The final event, I believe it was a Saturday night and we played Russia for the gold medal. And we lost the game, unfortunately, if I had nothing to Russia, but we had a heck of an Olympics. and there was no closing ceremonies in those days. They played the Russian anthem because Russia beat us.

So the team that won in international hockey, they always played their anthem. And that was pretty hard for me to take because, I mean, it was a brutal anthem. And it just went on and on and on and on. We just lost a big game. We've got to sit and listen to this Russian anthem, which was terrible.

And that was a tough thing to do. And then after the Russian anthem, we got our medals and the Russians were the last to get theirs because they got gold. And then they played a couple of songs in the rink in Grenoval. It was a big new building about, I don't know, 18,000 seats maybe. And of course, it was full for the gold medal hockey game. And they played a couple of songs that got the people rocking and that was the closing ceremony. I mean, it's changed so much now.

It's crazy. Absolutely crazy. They played a couple songs for the closing ceremonies in a rink. Yeah, that was it. That was it. There was no official closing ceremony or anything. And if my memory serves me, correct, the event that was on before our final event, which was our game, was the finals of the figure skating. Because when we came into the building for our game that night, we stood around for a while watching these gals figure skate.

And it was the gold medal figure skating event. That would have been second last event. And then our hockey game. And so that was it. The Olympics were over. And we stayed overnight on the way home in, I think it was Frankfurt. But I could be wrong. I think it was a Frankfurt flight to Montreal.

But we took off out of Grenoble. The next day, we had no time to celebrate. we went to Frankfurt and then we had a little bit of a celebration there that night. It was subdued because we didn't win gold, but we hop on a plane the next morning and we're back to Montreal, change planes, go to Winnipeg and, you know, Monday morning, you're back in school. That's what it was like. Would that have all been televised for, like, would that game have been televised back here in Canada? A gold medal game against Russia was televised.

And I think various events in the Olympics were televised. And it wasn't like Olympic coverage as we know it today. But they were televised. And of course, the problem with our hockey games was that it was, say, 7 or 8 o'clock European time. So it was, you know, 9 or 10 in the morning in Canada. And you play all week and probably most people were working. And I don't know whether those games were televised or not. I don't remember that.

But it wouldn't have been a huge audience. We had a heck of a big audience for the final game. I know that. We found that out when we got back to Winnipeg. And an interesting, I just thought of this, but an interesting story on when we got back to Canada, which was about a day and a half to two days later from the final game. And we were roundly criticized.

in the Toronto and Montreal papers for not winning the gold medal. And we were bitterly disappointed to be treated like that in the press. And they didn't have any idea what we went through the whole year to get there in school and special trainings that we, special types of trainings we do sometimes on the weekends. and they had no idea and we had a really good team. But that Russian team, they'd a beat every, they'd have beat every expansion team in the National Hockey League and some of the original

six for sure. I don't know if they were good enough to beat Boston or Montreal, but it would have been a heck of a game. And when the first series that the pros were allowed in was the 72 series, what was it called Canada Cup, maybe it was it called in? I forget. And that ended up Canada winning in the final minute with Paul Henderson's goal, 1972.

But my brother and I were called by some sports reporters in Toronto and Montreal. I think Toronto is my memory there. But they asked me what I thought about the series. And I was in the National League at the time. So I knew the competition in international hockey. And I knew the competition in the National Hockey. and so I remember telling this gentleman, the Toronto sports writer, that I thought the series was going to be 5-3 for Russia.

Russia wins the series 5-3 because they would, they trained harder than the NHL did in the summer and they were ready to go and they were a very, very good team. And you know, if you talk to anybody who's on that 72 team, they were very surprised at how good the Russians were. So I gave my prediction of 5-3 Russians in an eight-game series. and I think the reporter paid a little bit of lip service to it, but didn't really want to print it because he thought my prediction was so outrageous

that Russia was going to win the series. Like everybody thought it was going to be 8-0, Canada won an 8-3 games. And we knew different because my two years with the Olympic team, I think we played Russia 20 times. And we knew every player and how good they were, what their weaknesses were, what their strengths were. and the national hockey he didn't understand that at that time

because there had never been a game between a national league team and the Russian national team. So that was really interesting when we got back to Canada and we were criticized in the papers for not being a very good team and we were extremely disappointed in that.

Well, what is it like with the Soviets I mean you played at a iconic time, I would say? Yes, with the Soviets. absolutely. They're held in such revered the Soviets from that time era, or that era, I guess. Who were, like, what are some of the, what did they do that was so good?

Were they just skilled? Were they physical? Was it all the above? They were, every player in the team was very, very strong. And they, they were used to the big ice surface. And we weren't as used to it as, as they. were, but we were getting there. They moved the puck incredibly well.

They didn't take shots from all over the place. They usually, when they took a shot, it was usually an open net. So if they had 20 shots on you, 15 of them were really good shots. And half, seven or eight of them would have been open nets. They passed the puck so well, and they had a power play that was just dizzying. I mean, if you could get it out of your end and waste 20 or 30 seconds, that was a big victory. And playing the Russians, if you took a international refereeing was, in my opinion, very poor at the time. It wasn't the same as National League refereeing or junior refereeing that we were used to.

Any little thing you got a penalty for, well, they knew how to get away. We didn't. And so if you got three penalties in the first period against Russia and you're down three nothing, you know, tough game after that. Like they could they could score three or four goals in the first period on power plays and you'd be out of the game. That's how good they were. And I can go through guys like Starshanov, Pallupan off, David off, a small defenseman, ragulin, 245 pound defenseman. I mean, I can go, Eugenie Zeman, Harlem Off, who is a big, big time player for them in the 72 series. and they were all so skilled.

It wasn't like they had a third line. They had three first lines. And that's why they were so tough to play against. You got to travel all across Europe and play to the different countries. Was there a building or a place or a set of fans or all that just sticks out to you? Like did you get to play the Soviets in Russia at all? Did you get to go to Sweden or Finland? Yeah, yeah, we played, we played in all those, you know, Helsinki and Stockholm and in Prague.

And we played in the Vestia tournament in Russia at Christmas time and following the Olympics the next year at Christmas time in Moscow. And I didn't, I didn't like that building. It was a dull jury building with a huge ice surface. We played a couple of exhibition games in Geneva. in Switzerland, I believe against the U.S. maybe and won against Czech Republic, Czechoslovakia. And I really liked that rank in Geneva. It was not very far from the lake. And it was a big, I thought, a really nice rank.

Like the check, the rank in Prague wasn't particularly nice. Finland was a nice, Helsinki was a nice rank. It was only about 10 or 12,000 seats. And Stockholm was a big, big rank. And it was pretty nice. But I remember the one in Geneva that I really liked. So the Soviet Union and the Czechoslovakian ranks weren't very nice and they were big. And they held 15 or 20,000 people, but they weren't very nice rings.

Good ice surface, which is really all the common to us. When going to the National Hockey League, so you weren't drafted your own or you're part of the system of the Chicago Blackhawks. What was walking into training camp with guys like Bobby, well, Bobby and Dennis Hall, Stan McKita Tony Esposito like what was walking into the Chicago the famed Chicago Blackhawks Yeah that was really interesting

Because I left the Olympic team In the fall of 1969 The team was Was going to we thought going to be disbanded And Why did you think that Actually that's a Yeah because

the world championships, about five or six of us decided to stay one more year for the world championships in 1970. We played in 69, the world championships were in Stockholm, Sweden. And in 69, they were in Winnipeg, or in 70 they were in Winnipeg. So we decided we'd stay one more year. And then the National Hockey League stepped in and sent about six pros to our camp in Winnipeg. Again, in August, we stayed at St. John's Ravens Court in Winnipeg. And, oh, it was, they sent Gila Point, Al McNeil, Swoop Carlton, Wayne Carlton, Jim McKinney, who played for the Leafs for a lot of years. I forget who else. There's one or two others. And they were going to prop up our team against, to try and win the World Championships of Winnipe. Well, the fight was already brewing about professionals not being able to play in the World Championship.

And so we kind of put two and two together. And with Jackie McLeod's help, he advised me to turn pro because it didn't look like, it looked like the world championships would be canceled, Winnipeg and go somewhere else. And because the pros were there and were sent by the National Hockey League, they did in fact cancel the world championships in Winnipeg. And they played it somewhere in Europe that year. I don't remember where.

And then in the 72 Olympics, people wouldn't remember this, but Canada didn't go because they wouldn't allow professional hockey players. So it started in the fall of 69, the world championships in 70 was canceled in Winnipeg. They played it in Europe, as I said. And then in the 72 Olympics, Canada didn't participate because of the professional issue. And everybody in hockey knew then that the Swedes and the Czechs and the Russians were all professionals. and it wasn't really a, it wasn't really a fair fight for lack of a better way to put it. So that's what happened when I, and I didn't go to camp in Chicago. You didn't go to camp in Chicago?

No, I had, I left the Olympic team in September. And Chicago camp was already, was already on. And so we had to sort of put together a strategy. And we got a, we got an agent who actually was, by the way, was Alan. Eagelson and Alan got in touch with Blackhawks and we started in negotiations and we'd agreed on a contract and Alan and I flew into I flew from Saskatoon to Toronto Alan met me at the airport we flew to Chicago to sign the contract and we get down there and this is fall fall 69 and there had been some sort of a glitch and they what we had agreed to and what they had agreed to and what they

agreed to are two different things. So I just, I couldn't believe what I, I couldn't believe my eyes. So I just, I said, Alan and I had to go outside the office and talk. And I just said, let's go, let's get out of here because it wasn't the same deal as, as what we'd agreed to a couple days before. And so we left. Alan flew back to Toronto. I flew to Toronto and then straight out to Vancouver to enroll in UBC and play playing the Western Pro League out there for the Vancouver Canucks who weren't in the National Hockey League at that time. Well, the contract got sorted out about four or five days later. And Chicago was on a road trip, the last road trip before camp ended.

They were playing the LA Blades, or pardon me, the LA Kings. and the California Seals and finishing it off with a game against the Vancouver Canucks in the Western Pro League. So I get a call from my father who was very instrumental in helping me out with the contract

as well as a really fine gentleman by the name of Bud Esty, a friend of my dad's from their days growing up in Saskatoon. He was a lawyer in Toronto actually became a Supreme Court judge. And he was a big help in sorting out my contract.

So I got a phone call in the hotel I was at in Vancouver and my father said who got the contract sorted out you can sign it in Vancouver and by the way they're playing the Canucks tomorrow night be there at five o'clock you're playing so I I went into the I went down to the Canucks rink the next day at five o'clock went down below the ring and into the dressing room and I walk in the dressing room and went up to Billy Ray and was the coach and I said oh Billy hi I'm Jerry I'd met him once before but I don't think he remembered me I'm Jerry Pinder um I'm supposed to play for you tonight I didn't know what to do

and I was like I was 20 years old and he said yeah your your seats over there go sit down so I went and sat down and they had some equipment for me I had my own skates and uh it was amazing like I think it was Pitt Martin and Dennis Hall or something, I was in between them. And I didn't know anybody, nobody. And I'm pretty sure that most of the players in the room thought I was going to be their stick boy for the night. I don't think they had any idea I was going to play for it. And it was an amazing day because I was really nervous.

I mean, I didn't know anybody. And I sit down between these guys and they're looking at me like, you know, there's a stick rack over there, you know. whatever they said. So I introduced myself and said, I just signed with the team and so on. And then the other three rookies that year were Keith Magnuson, Cliffy Coral,

both of whom I grew up with in Saskatoon and played against all through my minor hockey. They'd come out of Denver University. And the fourth rookie, myself, Cliff, and Keith, and Tony Esposito. Well, that was Tony's rookie year. He'd played a little bit with Montreal a year before and then came to Chicago.

So it was interesting flying. We drove to Seattle after the game, caught an overnight flight all night to Chicago. And Tony had come out of Michigan Tech. And when I was younger, I'd been offered a scholarship with, I think it was John McGinnis at Michigan Tech was the head guy. So Tony must have known that I had been in school. And I didn't know anybody on the flight, the overnight flights.

So I was kind of sitting by myself. I got up to walk around a little bit and he says, Pinder, you know, come on sit down. So I sat down with Tony and we chatted and he said, you were with, you were in school? Were you? And I said, yeah, I was the University of Manitoba. And he said he graduated from Michigan Tech. And we had a pretty neat conversation when I didn't know anybody. And then when I got back to Chicago, I went down to stay at the hotel downtown, the Bismarck, which the whole block, the Bismarck block was owned by the Wirtz family who owned the Blackhawk.

We still do own the Blackhawks. And training camp was essentially over. Those were their last three games. So we practiced for about four or five days and played our, played opening game in St. Louis. So I never even attended training camp. That was pretty amazing. What was your first regular season game like then walking into St.

Louis? Like being a part of that, strapping on the Black Hawk jersey, like just. Yeah, I was a. big Black Hawk fan all my life and a big Bobby Hall fan and Stan McKeda, Whitey Stapleton, all those guys. And of course, Gordy Howell fan because he was from Saskatoon. He was in Detroit at the time. It was amazing. It was, I was so excited. Like, I couldn't sleep the night before in the hotel in St. Louis. And I ended up, I don't know, I think I played, you know, a fair bit, maybe somewhere between 18 and 22 minutes.

And we lost five or six two. And I scored both goals for the Blackhawks. Two Gino's in your first game. First NHL game. And I'm not sure if the guys were mad at me or if they were happy for me because it's all about ice time. And it was a different error then.

And of course, once I got to know all the guys, they're a great bunch. and we had a really good team. Guys like Bobby Hall are good friends of mine to this day. And he was very, very good to me in my rookie season. I didn't even know how to drive on a freeway. And I got an apartment out by the airport in a nice area out there. And after I got out of the hotel downtown and got moved into my apartment,

and I went down to practice and I had to be careful where I was going down the freeway. And I finally made it to the rink. Fortunately, I left about an hour and a half early because I knew I'd get lost. And after the practice, I was driving back to the apartment. I still had to move some furniture around and do all the things you have to do and get some groceries. I was driving for quite a while. And I thought, you know, I don't know if I made my turn here. So I got off on the next exit.

And I went to a gas station. And I asked the guy at the gas station, I'm living in Schiller Park and such and such an exit how much further is that exit? And he said, oh, you're about 15, 20 minutes past that exit. You go underneath here and get back on the freeway

and go the other way and you get off and such and such an exit. So I miss my exit. I didn't even know what a freeway was. It was amazing. Steep learning curve. Well, in fairness, you're going from the prairies to Chicago.

I mean, that's a big booming metropolis. Oh, it was, I don't know, six or seven million people at the time. I'd never seen anything like it. Never, and the Chicago Stadium was unbelievable. I mean, there's no better hockey fans in the world than Chicago Blackcock hockey fans. The year before I got there, they had finished in the original six division. They had finished in sixth place. and we played pretty well.

Tony Esposito won the Vezina Trophy. And we finished in first place. And so the whole year was very exciting because they were coming off a, they were coming off a sixth place finish. And this particular, my first year, we finished first in the division. And we beat Boston by maybe two points or something. So it was a very exciting year. I couldn't ask for anything more.

I mean, I was on a really good line the second half of the season with Jimmy Papin and Pitt Martin. And we all had a pretty good second half. So I was excited. It was disappointing to lose to Boston in the semifinals. But they also went on to win the cup and had a very, very good team. You know, compared to these days where it looks like players have a thousand sticks, as many pairs of skates as they could possibly humanly want, equipment out the wazoo in general.

How was it back then? When you walked in the Chicago Blackhawks, was it like, hey, Jerry, here's 10 wood sticks, start breaking them and we'll just keep supplying you. What was it like when you showed up in Chicago equipment-wise? Yeah, I had my own pair of skates, but you had to have two pair then in case you broke a blade or something like that.

And so they got me on another pair right away. And the Northland people, I believe it was Northland sticks, came very shortly after the season started and took my measurements, the kind of stick I wanted with the curves were kind of just starting then. Although Bobby Hall had a big, beautiful curve on his stick. And Stan McKita also had a big one on his. And so they, they, they, they, they, they, they, I got a stand. and sought it off to the length I wanted and showed them the kind of curve I wanted. And shortly after that about, I don't know, maybe 20 or 30 sticks showed up. And they were wooden sticks in those days.

So, you know, of course, they broke quite a bit. And we'd have, we'd have a second stick on the rack on the bench in case we broke one. And, you know, if you broke two, somebody had to run back the dresser and get you another stick. So I was well looked after in terms of equipment and skates and sticks for sure. sure. What was the practice? I mean, what was it like going to the rink every day with Bobby Hull?

And just the list of Hall of Famers that, you know, we keep mentioning, where were practices like just a thing to be hold? Were you in awe of what was going on or were you just having a grand old time, you know, through those couple of years? That's a good question. I would say both. I was in awe. I was also having a great time. It was kind of, I was lucky in a way to go to a team where,

you know, Hall was, Hall and McKita were the best players. But, you know, Bobby skaked by me when we were doing our warm-up skating and tapped me in the rear end

and say, pick it up, pick it up, Pinder. And he was a very hard-working guy at practice. So it was a heck of a lot of fun. I was a learning experience, but more than that, I saw these seven, eight, ten-year, 12-year pros who work pretty darn hard to practice. And that was really good for me.

It was good for my career, that's for sure. You know, when you look back at your time in Chicago playing for the Hawks, is there a memorable night or a memorable moment that goes along with that time in your career? Oh, boy. Certainly the first game. in St. Louis, even though we lost. It was pretty memorable. And then at that time, hockey night in Canada was out of Toronto on Saturday nights. And we went in to play the Leafs. And I was informed before the game by somebody on the broadcast crew that I was going to be

interviewed in between periods. And I sort of went, well, what do I do? I don't really want to be interviewed. I guess I don't have any choice. And I knew my family back in Saskatoon would be watching the game. And, you know, we regularly beat Toronto in those days because we did have a very good team. But I was pretty nervous in that first period, knowing full well what I had to do after the I have to go into this interview room and go through an interview with, I can't remember if it was Dave Hodge or who exactly it was back then. But it was, I remember that very well because of how nervous I was and the fact that I didn't really want to go to the interview,

but I didn't have any choice. So that was an interesting memory I have. I think my second year, the seven games, Stanley Cup final, against Montreal where we lost in game seven in Chicago to lose the cup. We were up to nothing about halfway through the game. And Jacques Lamar, who was a terrific hockey player, I gather a very good coach too. I never played for him.

But he came, he was rushing the puck and he came over to center redline, two or three strides over the red line, and he could really shoot it. And he let a slap shot go. Went over Tony's shoulder. and it was 2-1, and then Henry Richard went wide on our defense and cut in front of the net and scored, and it was 2-2, and then Henry Richard scored again, 3-2. So we lose the Stanley Cup final in Game 7 in Chicago, and that's not a good memory,

but it's certainly a memory I've never forgotten about. Well, you got to play in a Stanley Cup final, go to Game 7 with two original six teams. I have to assume the Mad House was pretty mad rocking that night walking in. I got to watch Jerry, I got to watch the highlights today. I looked it up on YouTube and got to watch the Game 7 highlights broken down. And I got to see the goal from just over the red line blown in. And you could see it was a very cool, I don't know, to just kind of warp yourself back to the time and throw yourself in the Chicago Stadium.

and see the Canadians and the Hawks going at it for game seven, the Stanley Cup finals. Yeah, it was so loud in the stadium, especially as the year progressed in my first year there, because we ended up in first place, then the second year progressed again, because we were moved to the expansion division. I think there was another two teams that came in.

I think it was Buffalo in Vancouver, and I think Buffalo went to the original division. I can't remember, I have to look it up, but we won first place the second year in the expansion division, and then we end up in finals, and the fans were just wild. And because the actual, the old stadium building was not a big building because they stacked,

the decks, the seats didn't go back. They were on top of each other. And that's why the noise was so loud. And during the national anthem, and if you watch them in the new United Center, you'll still see the same thing, not as loud, but you'll see the same thing. With about 20% of the anthem left to sing,

the fans start going crazy. And they did it in the Chicago Stadium. It was so loud. you, you standing on the bench, you could not converse with your line mate because they couldn't hear you. That's how loud it was at ice level. And I've never seen anything like it when I was in the National League and I've never seen anything like it since. It was an unbelievable feeling. And the old stadium was just a fabulous building.

And now the new building, I've been down several times and it's really a lot of fun too. but the memories of the old building are still very, very fresh in my mind. You know, you have a couple of years where you play for the Hawks and you get within like tasting the Stanley Cup. I'm sure that memory, me is sitting there and dwelling on it, doesn't make you feel all great and warm inside. But you get traded to the California Golden Seals. Now, as a fan, they were there for like this short,

little stint. They got maybe some of the most iconic jerseys, probably for all the wrong reasons. And yet you got to strap it on there for a full season. Let's talk about the California Golden Seals for a brief moment. You're one of very few players to ever suit up for this team. What can you tell us about playing for the Seals in Oakland? Oh, we had a new general manager there, Gary Young.

I think, I can't remember. I think he came out of Oshawa, but he was a great guy and real smart GM. I was very, very pleased to be with the California Seals. They were rebuilding. We had a young team. We should have made the playoffs. We lost our last seven games, I think, to miss the playoffs. But we were young guys on a mission.

And, you know, I was living in East Bay, south of Oakland. And the weather was really good. I ended up on a really good line with Ivan Boulder and Bobby Sheehan. And Ike was a big strong sentiment and a good, really good playmaker. He could shoot the puck. So we had a heck of a line, and we scored a lot of points. All three of us had more than 20 goals. And one of our issues there after that year we had, we had good years.

and one of the issues there was Charlie Finley was the owner of the team and he owned the baseball Oakland Athletics as well. So the Oakland Athletics had worn white cleats. They were the first to go away from the dark color cleats. So Charlie Finley thought it would be a great idea for us to wear white skates and he was serious.

So we all got us fitted with our CCM tax and the skates arrived in, I think we were playing Minnesota on the road, and they arrived that day in Minnesota. And Charlie had flown in, he lived in Chicago, and he'd flown in from Chicago to see the game. And then he comes into the hotel, and he sees these stacks of skates in the CCM boxes in the lobby. So Carol Vaddenay was our captain.

And Carol, we all talked about it like we couldn't wear them that night because they're too stiff, and we'd lost, you know, 10-0 to Minnesota. So we had to figure out a way not that we could talk Charlie into letting us wear our other skates because he'd flown in from Chicago to see this. So Carol had this long talk with him in the lobby before we got on the bus to go to the game

and finally convinced Charlie that we had to skate on these things for about four or five days before they were broken in. Otherwise, we'd get beaten badly because we'd be hard to turn, hard to stop, you name it, because they were pretty stiff. stiff leather in those days. And he finally gave in and we didn't have to wear them. But two or three games later on the road, we practiced with them. And so we go out in warmups with white skates,

first time ever in the National League history. And the funniest part about the whole thing was the interesting comments we got from the players on the other team during warmups about our white skates. And some of them I can't repeat. But it was interesting. There would be 10 players on the other team that made comments to us about those white skates. And we just kind of had to shrug and go with the flow and play as good as we could do. That's all we could do.

I'd read that Mr. Finley wanted or insisted that the skates remain as pristine as possible. So after periods, he'd be having the trainers repeat. paint them to cover any scuffs? Well, it was interesting. He was a stickler for that sort of thing and there's two elements to the white skates. One was

don't get injured on the California seals because the trainers don't have time to treat you. They're always painting the skates white. That was the first thing. And the second thing was the last 10 or 15 games of the year, my skates were so heavy from

six or seven layers of white paint on them that I could hardly stand up. And they, every little scuff mark he got along the boards would be sort of a dark mark on the white skates. So, you know, every, every third, fourth, fifth game, whenever the trainers had time and, you know, it was at the expense of the guys with injuries, we'd walk into the dressing room before practice and there they were painting our white skates. And so I don't know how many, how many layers of paint I had on mine at the end of year, but I know

my skates are way too heavy for me. And so my experience with white skates was, I would say, less than satisfactory. That's a great story. I mean, the California Golden Seals, I just have this idea, and I'm probably off on it, but you walk into the locker room, there's the trainers sitting there painting the skates. There's like four or five guys sitting there smoking a cigarette because they're just like, what the hell are we doing here? We're painting skates in between periods.

I can't even move in these things. Like, what is going on? Well, Charlie Finley was quite a showman in his day as the owner of the Oakland A's, and he carried on with the California Seals. And he had, you know, different nights in the Oakland Coliseum. There'd be a ladies night and whatever other ones he could think of. And I quite liked him. He was a very nice man.

But, you know, come time for Con. track talk and he was he was extremely tough on the players and I we had a good young team and that that team that year the world hockey league was world hockey association was formed that summer and that team we had which was a pretty good team in Oakland uh I think I think they lost eight eight or nine players to the world hockey association because Charlie uh he he wouldn't he wouldn't pay the players. And we had, like I said, we had a really good line with like Boulder and Bobby Sheehan.

And I had about, I don't know, 60 points or something like that, led the team in scoring. And he called me up in July that summer. And the World Hockey Association was being formed. And so a lot of us were entertaining offers from the World Hockey Association. We didn't really know if it was going to be real or not. but because we were playing for the seals, we were willing to listen.

And at that time, I was making $28,000 a year. And it was enough money to pay your taxes, buy a car, and pay your apartment rental. And so he called me in Saskatoon, and I don't know how the heck he would have ever found my number in Saskatoon. I was staying with my parents. I was home visiting them. And he was very nice. in the phone and the kid I was out in the golf course the kid ran out to get me off the golf course because he'd phone the he got the golf course number from my mother who answered the phone at home

and she didn't know who charlie finley was but she thought he was a friend of mine so she gave him the number at the golf course kid comes out and gets me and said mr finney's on the phone he needs to talk to you right away and so on so I go oh man we were we're having a pretty fun game of golf and I had to leave about the 16th or 17th hole and I go into the general manager's office at the golf course and it's Mr. Finley. And he had a real deep voice. And he said, young man, you know, we're so proud of the year you had for our California Golden Seals.

I said, thank you, Mr. Finley. And he said, no, let me see. You were making $28,000 last year. Is that correct? I said, yes, that was great. Thank you very much again, Mr. Finley. And being as polite as I could because he was the owner. And he said, well, just.

to show you how much we appreciate your contributions, I'd like to offer you $28,500 to play next year. So I was quite taken aback by that because I thought I'd hit Peter and I thought I'd make like $32,000 or something and he was going to give me a $500 raise after a pretty good year. So I said, I was sort of stunned and I said, Mr. Finley, thank you very much. much. I just, I think I need a couple of days to think this one over. He said, young man, that's just fine with me. You think it over for a couple of days. And then if you decide you want to play for the California Seals, my offer still stands. So that's kind of the way, that's kind of the way players are treated in those days.

Score 60 points, get a $500 raise. Yeah, I mean, it was, it sounds ridiculous now. But that wasn't just me. It wasn't unusual for my first year in Chicago. Bobby held out for, I think, 120,000. He was, you know, he and Orr was the best, and Bobby was top five for sure. And he sat out 20 games. And he didn't win the battle with the Hawks

and had to come back with what they had offered him. And so the best player in the world, no, top five in the world was making around 100,000 before the World Hockey Association. And it was just a different world. It was the owner's world. And you were literally owned by the team, so you had no options. There was no such thing as free agency. And that's the world we lived in. And I got a, I had a really good year with the seals, loved it out there, by the way.

I really enjoyed, really enjoyed it. We'd come home off a road trip and, you know, we'd be home for two or three weeks because our road trips are very long. And we'd go on the east side of the mountains, east side of Oakland. And there's good golf courses after practice we'd go and play golf. And all of that was new to me. I'd never done that during a hockey season before. So I really enjoyed it. And I would have been, I would have loved to have gone back to the Seals.

You know, you got to, you got to tell me a story about, I've read about the Golden Seals and the different knights they'd have to try and entice fans to come in and some of the shenanigans that went on. What was one of the best nights that you can recall where they brought in whatever

to try and bring fans in? Yeah. Well, there was a couple of different ones that were very weird. But the one that I remember the most was, I forget what it was called, but it was Players Night, something like that, or fan versus players night or something. So instead of getting ready for the game, we were out interacting with the fans for some period of time before warmups. And I'd never, I'd never, ever seen that

happened before, never since. You know, you're trying to, you're trying to get ready and concentrate and make sure you had a good nap in the afternoon, ready to go and so on. And, you know, you go down on the rink and you got to get dressed quite a bit earlier and then go out in the lobby and interact with literally hundreds of fans and then go put your skates on and go out for warm-up. So that was that was very different to me. I've never seen it since and I didn't even know, I doubt it ever happened before that. What were some of you say the word weird? I'm curious now. What was a couple of the weird ones? Oh, boy.

Well, he owned the Oakland A's at the time. So it was a hockey game, but it was a baseball night. It was baseball night at the Oakland Coliseum. And I forget all the things that went on. And in fact, there were quite a few Oakland athletic baseball players, I believe, at that game. because it was baseball night. So, you know, you go out, we go, we used to draw pretty well in Oakland, too. It was about a 14,000 seat building.

And we used to be close to sold out most of the time. And so you go out in the, you go out for warmness and you go out during the game, and they're announcing so-and-so from the Oakland Athletics, and he'd wander around shake hands. And, you know, we were playing a hockey game. And I found it, I found it to be very, very different that we'd be playing a big game that we, you know, we needed to win every game to make the playoffs. And it was baseball night. So they were talking, the announcer was talking

baseball all night. And I, I didn't quite pick up on that. That wasn't, that wasn't my idea of a hockey game. Why, with the WHA that comes in and they lure a bunch of NHLers over, with a bit more money essentially is the way I understand it. Obviously, you can tell us how it went for you, Jerry. But what was it about Cleveland that was attractive? And, you know, was it the achievers? Was it the guys like that that brought you there?

Or how did you end up in Cleveland? Well, I had originally been taken in the WHA Western World League draft by the them to the Oilers. And I wanted to stay down in the States. And so I just said, just trade my rights or whatever you do then. And they trade my rights to Cleveland. And then the biggest single motivator to go to the World League for me was Bobby Hall signed with the Winnipeg Jets. And his accountant in Chicago was the same gentleman I had as an agent slash accountant. And Bobby signed for $2 million, I believe it was a million dollar bonus. And, uh, 250,000 bucks a year for four years.

So that was unheard of it. So it was essentially 500 grand a year for four years. It was unheard of. And so my accountant slash, it was Bobby's. He's the one to introduce me to him, actually. He called me and said it's legit. They just signed Bobby for so much and so on. So then we started negotiating seriously with Cleveland.

And they were very good about it. I mean, you know, we knew the owner quite well. Nick Mulletti was the owner. Bill Needham was the coach and I went down to meet them. I went down with, well, actually, Skippy, Skippy Craig and I met on the airplane on the way down. And we were both going in to meet the, this was in, I think, I think late July. And we were going down to meet the team owner and the coach and see the building and this and I. We went to a baseball game, Cleveland Indians baseball game.

And Skippy and I had played against each other for the three years. years that I was in the National League. So we got to be good pals on that trip. And he was liking what he was hearing and I was liking what I was hearing. And then Cheever's, whom I didn't know very well at the time because he was at Boston, he had signed. And he got a hell of a deal in Cleveland. So we thought, well, Paul Schmere, who was a good buddy of mine with Chicago and

then was in the same trade when I went to California Seals, he was negotiating with Cleveland also. So Paul and I were in touch and we looked at our offers and said, let's go. And Skippy said, let's go. And pretty soon we'd assemble the pretty darn good team. And I was happy to stay in the States. And I was happy to, you know, I'd lived in the East, Chicago, arguably not the East, but I'd live down there. And when I visited Cleveland, I really liked it, a great city.

And that just kind of fell into place. And I knew several of the guys. jumped like cheesy and i got good pals and schmersie was a good buddy of mine skipy became a real good friend gary jarrick uh ray clear water ron bucky buchanan paula andria we had a really good team so i was kind of drawn there because i didn't think first of all they were really good to me and secondly i didn't think that i had much chance of actually making any money with the seals because you know we felt like charlie and he was in it for the long haul being the owner and he just was he was not prepared to pay

anybody and and uh i think he sold the team probably two years maybe three years later but that would have been if i'd have stayed there for another three years say that would have been a huge part of my career uh stuck not making much money and and i saw it as an opportunity and play even plus great group of guys too really good group of guys so it was it was a fun deal i was happy as heck to go you know i mentioned that with the California Golden Seals that it's a time that very few players got to experience because they were only there for a short period of time. Well, the WHA is another thing that only lasts.

What is it? Seven years? 72 to 78, 79, somewhere in there. Yeah, I think it was six years, I think. A real brief period. I assume in my brain I go, the WHA is like the NHL. I just assume it was the same thing in different cities. But you played it with Cleveland.

You played four seasons. What was the WHA like for us folks that never got to witness it? Well, the first year, I think there were 12 teams. So the big thing would be that the NHL had probably 14 teams and 12 more Major League teams in the World Hockey League. So the product, the team on the ice in the National Hockey League and in the World Hockey Association was watered down a little bit because all of a sudden you had 20 times 12. You know, you had all those new people being in the major leagues and some of them were from the NHL and a lot of them were from the American League. So it watered down the National Hockey League and it also watered down the World Hockey Association.

Of course, it had never been formed so watered down is not the right word. but so you're again your your top 10 players on each team were pretty darn good your bottom six maybe weren't so hot and then that was the era of Boston won the cup in 72 and then Philly in 74 and 5 and it was the era of the goon squads coming into the National League and the World Hockey Association and it was Pretty mean, pretty dirty. But at the same time, we didn't have all the rules that they have now, the new rules. So you had to be able to take care of yourself, but it was pretty good hockey.

Like, I think two years into the World Hockey Association, we finally, the two leagues agreed to play. And they played each other in exhibition games for two years. And I don't think anybody would know this, but the, you can look up the stat. The WHA, I think, won 62% of the games against the NHL. So you're saying Cleveland would go play some exhibition games against Detroit for arguments. Well, we played, no, we played Pittsburgh. You played Pittsburgh?

Yeah, and we whipped them in the first game. And we go back into Pittsburgh a couple of nights later. And they had dressed a serious goon squad. and they tried their best to pound the daylights out of us and we lost about, you know, 5'4, you know, 5'3, something like that, I forget. So we were every bit as good and probably a better team than Pittsburgh, but as I said, the goon squads were in vogue then, and they dressed a pretty, pretty ugly team that night in the second game in Pittsburgh,

and they beat the daylights out of us physically, and we lost the game. You know, you mentioned Goon Squad. Who is the toughest guy than you've ever stepped on the ice with? You just went, ooh, you don't want to mess with X. Oh, boy. The toughest guy that I ever saw in either the NHL or the World Hockey Association was Paul Schmere. And he was my teammate. But he was about 5-11.

and he think he weighed in every day at about 178 pounds and I mean he beat up everybody that came along big clowns good players

tough guys you name it I never saw him lose a fight and you know there was obviously other ones I mean in Boston Wayne Cashman was a pretty mean ombre and

you know Derek Sanderson was he was really a good hockey player but he was also one of the meanest SOBs in the National Hockey League and he jumped to the World League he got a ton of money to jump and I don't know that he ever played he was

he was getting involved in some off-ice activities at the time that weren't very good but he was a really good player and he was really really tough you know in Montreal all, Gila Point was a tough guy, real tough guy. St. Louis, Bobby Plager. Bobby Plager was a pretty good hockey player and real tough. You know, there was quite a few of them that I couldn't get

involved with because I was 5'8 and, you know, 175, 180 pounds. So you had to be a little bit careful. And again, the rules weren't such that you got, they weren't, you know, you know, you didn't get a bad penalty for doing something stupid. So there was lots of that going on. I just enjoy the, you know, I was thinking in my head. I was always told as a young guy, well, not told. I just inferred, I guess, that you had to be a big guy in the NHL. And since I started doing this podcast, I think a Dennis Polonich, who is my size,

5, 6, 5, 7. I think a Theo Flurry, once again, roughly the same size. And now I keep hearing your sizes at 5. Like, you're not a giant of a man. And actually, the more I dig into it, there's quite a few guys that were small and talented and a little bit fierce, not willing to back down from anyone. And they had very successful careers. Yeah, I mean, you were allowed way back when, well, even when Theo played, and Theo was a wonderful hockey player, but you were allowed to protect yourself without being suspended. And if that meant you had to protect yourself with your stick, you know, so be it.

And so as long as little guys were, you know, they had a little bit of jam and they were prepared to protect themselves. And then we were fine in the league. I mean, if you got into a fight, it was pretty tough because it was generally with a guy quite a bit bigger. So, you know, you kind of hang on for dear life. but overall, the big thing I take from what's going on then and what's going on now is you are allowed to protect yourself. Now you're not. And the other thing is they don't, in today's national hockey league, it's all speed and skill, good, good shooters. And so they're not, you know, you don't have to protect yourself as much as you did back then because they don't, they play a different.

style altogether. And it's a very good style, by the way. I like the style they play. But it's, you know, you're talking 30, 40 years ago, and that's a long time. Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's, I've been, I've had you on now, Jerry. I don't want to hold you all night. I certainly can sit and listen to the stories of old all night. But I think let's move into the final five, the crewed master final five. A shout out to Heath and Tracy McDonald, who've supported the podcast since the very beginning. Just five quick questions go as long or short as you want. As you've noticed for me, I'm willing to sit and chat for as long as you got. But we'll do five more nice and quick. The first is a favorite of mine. If you could sit down with anyone, just like I'm doing,

to pick their brain about their career or about their experiences, who would be the one guy you'd want? Well, I'm pretty fortunate to have done that with Bobby Hall. he's a good friend of mine and the other guy whose brain I'd really like to pick and I know but he's not a good friend or anything as Bobby or. Yeah, Bobby, well, both. Both great solid choices.

If you could pick line mates today to go on, while to take on your line, who would you put on with you? They had our playing today? Yeah, today or in the past, don't matter. Um, yeah, that's a really good. That's a really good question. I mean, the obvious answer would be Connor McDavid.

And the second or first guy that I would want to play with is Bobby Orr. Toss Bobby Orr up on the front? Well, he was a rover. He didn't really play defense. He was all over the place. And he's the only guy. He was such a good skater. He could do it and do it very well.

But it's interesting that he's called a defense one. but if you watch many clips of them, you know, I just, I would take the attitude that he was a rover, not a defenseman. If you were traded and could bring one player with you, who would you take? A former teammate. If you were traded from a team,

what former teammate would you bring with you? I was fortunate in that regard because when I got traded to the California Seals, Paul Schmere was in the trade. And then when I jumped to Cleveland, Paul was a jump to Cleveland as well. And so it would be him. He was a man's man.

And he, he was a really good captain. He was a really good team guy. If you weren't pulling your weight as a player, he'd let you know. And if you were getting treated poorly as a player, he'd go to the management and straighten it out. So he's the guy. He's the guy.

Cool. If you could go back to one arena that is no longer. So it's been retired. What arena would it be? Yeah, if I could do two of them, I would do the Chicago Stadium and the Montreal Forum. Montreal Forum was terrific. It was best ice surface in the league and good fans, good place to visit. You know, they had good food.

But I really liked the Montreal Forum and I really like the Chicago Stadium. And interestingly enough, Sean, they were different sized ice surfaces. Chicago Stadium was a small surface and Montreal was pretty big. your final one if you could go back to uh your time in saskatchewan what barn or what town did you enjoy playing in or was kind of an anomaly where you went and played back as a kid oh i would say that the place i like playing in the best was estuven um they were a really good team they were a tough team physically, and it was a very small building, very small ice surface. So you had to keep your wits about you and you had to be ready for anything that might happen to you. But it was also a, it was also a huge motivator going into Estaband. We knew we had to play well. And we

knew what the game was going to be like. We knew it was going to be tough. And I just really enjoyed the building. So I would say Estaband. Well, here's a 5A, or yeah, 5A. bonus question for you. Skip says that you'd probably talk up Saskatoon as the toughest ombres around, but he wants you to remember Battleford was a pretty tough group of characters. What do you got to say on that?

We beat North Battleford in the Junior B championships before I started in junior. And I always talk to Skip about those North Battleford guys. They were all owned by Estevan. And those guys

the North Battleford guys, if there was anybody who could take pretty good care of me and give it to me, but good on the ice, it was them. On the other hand, in South's team, we had a couple really tough guys, Jerry Sachsmith being one, and Ronnie Hopkins. So when we went into Astavann and the North Battleford guys were after me, they had to answer, they were accountable to a couple guys on our team too, so that was okay. I do appreciate you sitting down with us and sharing some stories from your career, Jerry. a lot of fun. Yeah, thank you, Sean. My pleasure. I really enjoyed it.

Hey folks, thanks again for joining us today. If you just stumble on the show and like what you hear, please click subscribe. Remember, every Monday and Wednesday a new guest will be sitting down to share their story. The Sean Newman podcast is available for free on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, and wherever else you find your podcast fix. Until next time.