Shaun Newman Podcast - Ep. #169 - Dennis Chopko

Episode Date: May 3, 2021

Former Nait Ooks basketball player, stoic, coast guard & salesman Dennis is an interesting story. We discuss sales, people & philosophy. Let me know what you think text me! 587-217-8500  

Hi, this is Brandon Holby. Hey, this is Tanner, the Bulldozer Bozer. Hi, this is Brian Burke from Toronto, Ontario. This is Daryl Sutterin. Hello, everyone. I'm Carlyagro from SportsNet Central. This is Jay On Right. This is Quick Dick, quick, tick coming to you from Tough Moose, Saskatchew. Hey, everybody, my name is Theo Fleary.

This is Kelly Rudy. This is Corey Krause. This is Wade Redden. This is Jordan Tutu. My name is Jim Patterson. Hey, it's Ron McLean, Hockeynet in Canada, and Rogers' Hometown Hockey, and welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks.

Hope everybody had a great weekend. I turned the big 3-5 over the weekend. And I've got to give a shout-out to my lovely wife who got me a new board game, Krocano. For you who have never played it, a fantastic little game. I didn't get really play it because the little ones were stealing pieces, so we put it away. But I'm rather excited about it. On May 1st, so on Saturday we released our bike for breakfast. So that's coming June 4th to 6th.

There's a group of 10 of us from the city that are going to be biking to raise money for local breakfast programs in, holy man, a ton of schools. But if you want more info, head to bike for breakfast, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and you can find more information out there.

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I've been joking about this for a few weeks now. But I think we finally got everything signed. We're just waiting on a couple things, and I'm sure she's going to be happy to be like, who, that's all done. But she proudly serves the areas of Westminster Bonneville, Cold Lake, and Vermillion and looks forward to working with you for all your mortgage needs.

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So if you want to get in, figure out maybe what you got going on or what you can do, give her a call 780872-2914 or take a look at her website, jfisher.ca. Clay Smiling, the team over at Profit River. They specialize in importing firearms from the United States of America. They pride themselves in making the process easy for all their customers. The team at Profit River does all the appropriate paperwork on both sides of the border in order to legally get the firearm into Canada and put it in your hands. Also, they take care of registering the firearm and transferring it to your PAL or FAC before shipping them by mail, courier, bust, wherever you are.

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make sure you let them know. You heard about them from the podcast, right? Now, let's get on to that T-Barr 1, Tale of the Tate. Originally from Emmington, Alberta, an alumni of the NADUCS basketball program, owner of Killing Herb Inc, customer-focused sales training, and a member of the Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary. I'm talking about Dennis Chopko, so buckle up, here we go. This is Dennis Chalko, and welcome to the Sean Newman podcast.

All right, well, welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Today I have joining me, Dennis Chopko. So first off, thanks for hopping on. Hey, it's an absolute pleasure to be here with you. Now, the first thing I'm going to ask is you're the first person I've ever had on here in 200 episodes that is standing. So is that a comfort thing or is that what is it? It is partly due to comfort, but it's a lot. I teach courses.

And so for the last 16 years, I've been traveling across North America doing keynote speeches. in keynotes, you're generally standing up and moving. And now with the pandemic kicking in, we had to switch to virtual training. And with that virtual training, we've set up this studio that I use. And I prefer to stand. It allows the energy to move through me. It allows me to be a bit more energetic, bit more animated for being here. So yeah, so standing, I just, for teaching and instructing, it's just something that I've been doing and that we've stuck with. Very interesting. Well, are you enjoying the virtual ability of, teaching or do you miss being in the room feeling the energy? I miss being in the room feeling the

energy. So what I teach is we call it a sales course because it seems like everything needs labels, but really it is an empathy-based communication process. And I'm all about connecting with other human beings and helping people connect more effectively and communicate more effectively. And so the pandemic, I feel, has set us back. And in fact, in a lot of my courses that I talk about, if we drive an electronic wedge between human beings, the closer we get to war. So it is a concern. I definitely would much rather be in a group of people, shaking hands, meeting new people that way. But, hey, we've got to deal with the situation at hand.

And so we've switched to virtual. And in that comes, you know, for every strength there's a weakness. And every weakness there's a strength. We can get to more people, more time zones. We can get across the ocean. And I don't have to travel right now, which was getting a little long in the tooth. So that is a benefit for being at home as well. I hear you. I'm a, well, a salesman by trade. And there's something about being in the room of somebody that is just, wow, that's so human, right? Like that connection is being able to see the body language. I find it very enjoyable to see even from this side. Being able to see more of your body is just, it's like rather enjoyable because I can see your actions where, you know, on my side, you can't see what I'm doing with my hands. Well, you kind of can. But you know what I mean? All you can get is exactly what you're doing. The head nod.

the smile, but that's it. And in sales, there's a whole heck of a lot more. But before we get too deep into sales and all that good stuff, I don't know. I was saying to this before we started. If my listeners just tuned in, they're going, Sean, who the heck is Dennis Chopka? And who and why is he on? And so I'm curious, I was saying before you're a bit of an enigma. A common friend, Donnie reached out and said that you'd be a hell of a guest to have on. So where is Dennis originally from? Originally from Evanton, Alberta. So not too far away from Lloyd Minster. And I like the shout out you gave to Donnie Atkinson, an absolute gem of a human being. He's got his own exciting story. And we've always joked that I'd attach my cart to his horse or vice versa. So I'm

happy to be here at his request. And I'm happy that he's spreading the good word. So yes, Evanton, and I've spent quite a bit of time on Lloyd. Actually, we've got quite a few clients and friends there as well. Now, were you always insane? was this or was this something you kind of stumbled into? I'm assuming you've always enjoyed talking to people and maybe felt comfortable in those situations. But what did you do growing up? Or were you always drawn towards the, you know, getting in front of people? Interesting. And so I actually was drawn to basketball. So I know that you were a hockey player and that you played high level hockey. Well, mine was basketball. And I ended up going down to college down in the States to play

basketball and in doing so I was taking sciences and so I took my my science I was working on chemistry is working on pre-medicine and then ultimately the coach that I had got fired for stealing money from the school and new coach came in and long story short I had my scholarship pulled and I ended up coming back and when I came back my provincial basketball coach said to me at that time he said hey I heard you back in town we could use you we'd love you to play you can sign up tonight or you know get dressed tonight and that was Nate and so I ended up switching back from college in Montana to Nate. And then because I had the chemistry and the science background, I ended up going into the lab and research option. I suited up that night and

ended up playing the rest of the season for Nate. And we had a good finish the season. And then I started going on the lab and research. So I actually graduated as a lab and research professional and ended up working in the genetics lab at the U of A. But I found out very quickly that people don't like to have conversations a lot in the lab. And I started to get a little squarely working in the lab and hence that's what springboarded me out into the selling profession. So then I guess from there I end up working for a Fortune 500 IT company at a young age, worked my way up quickly, became one of the youngest sales managers in the history of that company. And in doing so, they said, okay, hot shot, you want to have a team so bad, here you go.

I had half the team had been in the business longer than I'd been alive. So you can imagine how excited they were to have me as a sales manager, not very. And then the other half were brand new. Tags still hanging from their dress close in. you know, what do we do next? What do we do next? And to top it all off, they were dead last. They were dead last in the companies. And so one of the things that as you and I get to chat a little bit more, I read voraciously, I love to read. And I was searching for a life preserver at that time going, well, sales kind of came naturally to me in the sense that I was empathetic. I listened and I

asked a lot of questions. But it was really an unconscious sale. And I had to turn it into a conscious sale in order to be able to sell or help other people on my team sell. And so I'd found a book. And that book, And that book was called Getting Into Your Customer's Head. And it was all about, we know so much about selling, yet we know very little about how people buy. What are the steps that people go through to make a decision to buy? So I took Kevin Davis's book. I adopted the process and we went from dead last to number one in a matter of six months. And then from there, we shattered every other sales record that that company had had.

I got headhunted into another company that outfitted professional sports teams and hence where I interacted with Mr. Donnie Atkinson. And in working with Donnie, we saw the same success there in a matter of about eight months where we saw an increase in sales. And from there, at that point, there's always a catalyst for change. And the person that I was working with at that time, I was absolutely amazed that someone of that character could be running a company that was somewhat successful. And I thought, well, if they could do it, so could I. And I actually ended up approaching the author for getting into your customer's head, Kevin Davis. And I said, hey, I got an idea for a program based on your book. I've been honing this.

I've been learning how to do it. And I've been kind of shaping the streetwise version of your theory. I'd like to get together. He said, come on down. And so I went down there. I spent a couple weeks with them. We developed the program. And for the last 16 years, I've been traveling across North America delivering the message

and working on there. So that's kind of the springboard into sales, if you will. You're telling me, you're a basketball chemistry gas. who eventually stumbles into a weird way of sales. That's what you're telling me? Yes. So you're, you're,

that you're, uh, the school you go to in Montana where the coach, um, stealing money and bezzling money. You never had any thoughts of like trying to get back there. It was just kind of like so quick. All of a sudden you're playing for the oaks.

Yeah. It was. It was really quick. You know, it's expensive to go down to school in the States. And, uh, I have to see. I spent most of my summer playing basketball, not working and earning money because I felt

that everything was covered. And when that got yanked, I ended up coming home. And it was a bit of an emergency drastic move of coming home. But everything happens for a reason. You know, stoic philosopher says, you know, what's in your control, what's not in your control? And I'm a firm believer that it happened in it. And I'm very thankful that it did because I played out some great, great seasons that Nate

ended up getting the Silver Torch Award for them and met some great people, learned some great skills and it's funny how it all just kind of builds now to what we're doing. And, you know, it's interesting. So Kevin Davis actually came back to me a few years later after I started delivering this message and he goes, hey, I'm doing a rewrite of the book. Would you like to help me? And I said, well, absolutely. I've been pitching your book for the last eight years. I'd love to be a part of it. So I actually got a chance to do a rewrite of the book with Kevin as well. And so that kind of took off from there. So it's, it's an interesting story. It doesn't necessarily make sense, Sean. No, no, I actually I find lots of very intriguing, right?

Like, you know, the stoic in you is, I find that very intriguing, right? Like these cause and effect events, you know, if you'd stayed down the states, maybe you never would have would have, and by going there, et cetera, et cetera, it just leads there. When you quit the lab job or when you're thinking of quitting the lab job, why Fortune 500? Well, I did have a connection that was in that company already that was saying that they were looking for people. So they were looking for people for selling like printers and software and copiers and fax machines and things like that. And so it was a connection at the time. I did work at a gym for a little bit selling gym memberships, which I really liked, but it wasn't as lucrative.

And I remember a girlfriend at the time said, hey, you're better than this. Take a look at something better. And that's, so it was a combination of starting in the profession, having somebody that was in a, in another role that said, hey, you can get involved in this and there's some decent money in it. Come check it out. And that's how I ended up there. So what were you selling then? When you got good at, like when you're smashing and they're giving you a team, what were you selling? Yeah.

So we were selling like document services. So we would say anything to do with like software information management, photocopiers, high, like high level printers, color systems. So we were selling to basically any business that's moving information. So that's kind of what we were selling. Now this is going to be a real dumb question because I just, but doesn't that sound kind of boring? were you just kind of like, I'm going to sell what now? Or were you just like, as soon as you started digging into it, to start to have a little more,

or it doesn't matter what you're selling because you like the interaction with the customer. I guess I'm curious. Yeah, it was the interaction with the customer that really drew me to it and meeting new people all the time. That part I really enjoy it. But it's interesting when you talk about the higher calling of it. It didn't have that for me. And ultimately, I think that was where the springboard that I went off to do something,

well, you and I have talked about this before, is my personal tagline is if we focus on the success of others, ours will naturally follow. And so I thought, you know, by selling someone a printer or a photocopier, am I really making their lives better? Well, in a small way I am. Right. If it doesn't jam, you remember from the movie office space where people went up and beat it with a baseball bat and they had to hold the person back. So in a way that you can help save people some frustration and help them have a better day in the office. But it didn't necessarily speak to me as much as I wanted. So ultimately the calling that came out of there when I set up my own business, killing her bank, getting rid of the herb tarlicks, the slimy sheisters in the selling profession and helping good people achieve success in sales. For me, that was the higher calling then.

And then I was able to help people on a different level, help them communicate more effectively. And then also help good people get into sales because everybody's always heard, oh, you know, this person's a natural. They're good at it. And when I was saying, well, I think we can teach people how to do this, help them communicate. and then, you know, I think they say nine out of ten people are involved in the selling profession in North America, right? So that was the calling was to get out and help. Well, I always say, Dennis, everybody's selling because it doesn't matter if you're actually, you know, in a sales position selling copiers. Every day you're selling yourself to somebody else, right?

Like, heck, talking about office space, right, the movie, right? You're trying to sell it. If you really like that show or that movie. or pick another popular show, you can sell that to your friends. And that's a form of selling, right? And that's, that's an interaction daily. We just don't look at it the same. But as social media becomes this juggernaut, which it truly is, right? You're selling yourself all the time on that if you're active on it, right? That's essentially what it is. It's a social interaction. That's what sales is. Absolutely. You know, a doctor, what are they selling? They're selling health

and wellness, an engineer, what are they selling, attention to detail and following regulations and making sure things are safe. You're right, everybody is selling something, right? And the whole idea is, is it making someone better? Well, I really like your, if we focus on the success of others, ours will naturally follow. I think that's a powerful statement, right? Like, it's kind of like, you know, I don't know, people call that karma, right? You put good into the world and good will come back to you, so to speak. But like, what you're saying there is, to me, a pretty deep thought that a lot of salespeople don't think of. They think of growth and numbers and how much is he buying or her buying or what are they spending or how are we bringing it here.

And, you know, one of the things that intrigued me about you is I'd said this probably about a month ago about how a good salesman is like Sherlock Holmes. He's just looking. He's listening and he's watching for clues because a person that is a prospective client, it's going to tell you everything. And when I hear you talk about being a empathy and being a good listener, to me, that's exactly what getting in the room is. You get in the room and you let them, you just find out what they need.

Because if you got copiers and they don't need them, I mean, you could try and sell all you want, but you're just at the end of the day, not wasting your time, but you might as well figure out their problem so you can solve it for them. That's exactly what it is. And it's interesting. You say Sherlock Holmes, well, I say that Socrates was the very first. Socrates, yeah, salesperson, because he didn't tell anybody, anyone, he just asked a series of questions to bring them to the realization of, oh, yeah, this could be better or, oh, I hadn't thought of that. And that's really the role. You know, it's interesting. It is all the course, like I said, we call it a sales course. but it's really it's understanding how people buy.

And there's some really interesting studies there where they took a look at that we as human beings, anytime we're faced with a decision where there's some sort of risk involved, we go through eight predictable steps. And further to that is we get verbal and physical indicators that pinpoint where we're at in our decision-making process. So our thinking is the better we understand how someone buys,

makes the decision to acquire something, is the better we can work with them through that process as opposed to trying to drag him through some 1970s herb tarlick like manipulative sales. And so it's really, you're right, it's about understanding. It's got nothing to do with what we're selling. It's everything, it's finding out what it is that you're needing and what are the challenges you're dealing with and what can we do to help you through those. And so it's where I say with Socrates, you know, talking about that first customer-focused

salesperson, I get asked all the time when I was traveling and when I get to hotel, what are you here for? Oh, I'm here speaking at the conference. What are you speaking on sales? Oh, can you give me a sales tip? Right? Everybody's like, can you give me a sales tip? And so I said, I can give you the shortest course in selling.

And I said, the shortest course in selling is four words. And it's ask questions and listen. And it's just the type of questions that you ask that will determine the type of information that you get. But it's more about listening. A lot of people think that sales is about, you know, giving good answers and problem solving. Not true. It's about asking good questions and problem finding. The person who finds the problem is generally the one that gets to address it.

Yeah, I would, well, I just, I really agree with that. You know, when you go back in your career, let's go back to Dennis, the young basketball player, former lab man. Did you learn that rate? Like, how long did it take you to learn some of that? Like, was it natural? Or did you have a mentor who kind of showed you the ropes? Or did you have a bunch of blunders where you said, I got to get better at this? Well, it's on the shoulders of giants that we stand. And so I'm constantly learning from those that I've worked with. I've had some great mentors through the different roles. I think my parents, you know, my dad is probably the most honest man that I've ever met. And as a younger lad, I used to argue with them. But now I see the error in my ways and recognizing that, you know, honesty is the best path and leaving something on the table for the next individual.

You know, another great quote that my dad used to say to us is you can hope in one hand and crap in the other. see which fills up faster. You've got to take action. And so definitely, yes, I've had some great mentors. I also mentioned that I love to read. And so I remember I had a neighbor give me a book called The Way of the Peaceful Warrior written by Dan Millman. And it's a book that says it's a book that changes lives. And it does. And it's a fictional story. But in it embedded is a lot of different philosophies and theories on humanity. And so I picked up on that and really enjoyed the reading. And then I picked up The Republic, written by Plato, and that's, you know, Socrates's writing. And one of the cool things in that book that really the whole book is about why we should be good. It's four young guys come to

Socrates and say, well, why should we be good? And then Socrates says, okay, well, that's a big question. Let's sit down and talk. And so he just asked him a bunch of questions throughout the book. And the Cole's Notes version of that book, The Republic, is really this, is as we get closer to death, either we start to believe the stories we've been told to be true, or we get some sort of clearer perception of it as we get closer. Every single human being reckons up. They look back at their lives and they say, what type of life did we lead? Now, those that led the life that was, they hurt, they murdered, they cheat, they lied, they stole, their life becomes filled with foreboding. They don't know what happens next when they cross the threshold. But those people that, that, that,

that they know people like to laugh more than they like to cry. They like to love more than I like to help. we were trying to help everybody in our community in any way that we could and that we were honest and we were loving and all these things those people get what they call peace of mind or the comfort of old age. It can cross that threshold going, you know, I did what I thought was right and I have no qualms about that. And so after I read that book, it really became my mission of when I look back on my life, what kind of life did I leave? And did I help? And did I, you know, spread a message of compassion and love and empathy and helping others. And so since that point, I've dedicated all my learning towards that.

I've dedicated all my work towards that. And ultimately with the hope that we can have that, you know, comfort of old age, that peace of mind across the threshold. That's got to be just like an not an easy life to live because I'm not meaning like money wise. I just mean like peace of mind. like that is something well i just i'll say it again like i really admire that i i that's what i'm chasing i think of that all the time right i just want to do some good want to be good want to help people want to be the you know people can trust and what i say i do and a handshake means a handshake and

and and so forth and so on and uh so you're saying then that in the beginning you read a lot and that helped you with sales. Yeah, absolutely. And it still do. Like I said, from that initial book, it's interesting, I'm teaching a course right after this when you and I get off. So I've got everything laid out. But when I found this first book, this initial book, that's when I started reading. It was Kevin's idea, focus on the buying, not the selling. So that had an impact. From there, I picked up the way of the peaceful warrior, then the Republic. Then I started getting into Epictetus and stoicism. And then I'm reading biographies.

and you're learning in every step of the way you're taking it. And then, you know, it's interesting. This tagline of focusing on the success of others has been testing. It's an easier life. The moment that I made the decision that I would not lie, Sean. So there's a big thing. So I'd say 12 years ago, I made the conscious decision that I would not lie. And that even comes down to you're running late for a coffee and you know you're going to be

there in 15 minutes. You know the person's waiting and you say, I'll be there in five minutes. And now I see, I go, why do people do that? even though they know what's going to happen. They set up the wrong expectation. And so now, I've made it my life's mission that I tell the truth. In fact, they say the mouse should have three gatekeepers. Is it true?

Is it kind? And is it necessary? Those are the three things. And so when you talk about living an easier life, as soon as I made that decision, my life became easier. You don't need a memory. If you tell the truth all the time, you don't need a memory. You know, I remember someone telling me when I work with them,

And they said, oh, what an elaborate web we weave when we first deceive. Right? And I just think so many people's lives are complicated because they fail to realize the power of words, of what comes out of our mouth. And really and truly, I think the only things that we have talking about, we talk about stoic philosophy there, when we're getting into it, is really the only things that we have control over in this life is how we move our arms and legs and what comes out of our pile. That's it. And the moment that we take responsibility for those two things, a new evolution is born. I really enjoy what you're saying, Dennis.

I really hope the listeners, you know, you're killing Herb. People are listening to getting out of it what I'm getting out of them because I really enjoy this. I would say one of the things I'd add into we have control over what comes out of your mouth and your arms and everything else is once you start doing that, opportunities are going to present themselves daily. And you just got to open your eyes and see those for what they are and then go grab them. Absolutely. Absolutely. And it's an amazing world that we live in.

And I feel that as you get closer to your own truth, as you get closer to it, is that you start to connect with this, the energy of the world, so to speak. And then these opportunities just start to open up to you. And that you meet new people. And you're like, oh, that's interesting. and that I didn't think that, you know, like you're absolutely right. New opportunities open because of the path, right? Well, I mean, just put it the opposite way.

If you started doing bad things, opportunities are going to open themselves too, just more of the same because you're going to be surrounded by that network and whatever that comprises of. I was just saying the other day, you know, Jordan Peterson, an author, he'd written, talked about self-authoring where you could go back. right, the worst case scenario for your life and then maybe where you could get to if you set your mind to it. And if you write about the bad, it can push you to motivate you to chase what you want because it's not that hard to imagine if I make a couple of poor choices, what that can

maybe lead me down to. And if you could figure that out as an individual, it'd be pretty easy to run from that because that type of fear, that type of knowing where it could get is motivating, powerful. It is. And you know, you touch on something. So I wrote an article that was the embrace the way of the hard choice. And so every day we wake up, we have the exact same choice presented to us every day. We've got the easy choice and the hard choice. Now, it'll come with different costumes, different makeup, different masks. But every day that we wake up, we've got the hard choice and we've got the easy choice. So as an example, the easy choice would be hit the snooze button. So now you hit the snooze button, you sleep in, you're 15 minutes delayed in what you went, you got up,

maybe you can't iron the dress shirt, so you pack that quickly, and then you're on the move, and you're going off to the next meeting, and now you're scrambling behind it. So the easy choice is only easy at the beginning, but then it gets continually harder thereafter. Like the tractor pull, as you're pulling it, it gets heavier and heavier and heavier. And if you continue to take the easy choice, ultimately it will kill you. It will. It'll take you down that path and take you well. But in the way of the hard choice, so let's see the hard choices I'm going to wake up 15 minutes early. Yeah, it's hard. It's hard. It's hard to get out of bed. It's hard to drag the carcass and get moving. So you get out and you start moving. But then the beauty of the hard choice is that it

gets easier over time. And the more that you actually make the way of the hard choice, then it gets easier. Now, I also recognize, you know, this can parlay into a much bigger topic on many things. And in the case of addiction, the hard choice at the beginning could almost kill you if it doesn't kill you. But then once you make that hard choice and you embrace the way of the hard choice, then everything becomes easier thereafter. And I find today is that a lot of today's society is duped into making the easy choice and then justifying why they took the easy choice. So it's interesting. I do, it all does come down to choices. Absolutely. Well, the easy choice is everywhere around us. You know, like, speaking of reading things, my dad had been really hard on, not hard on me,

been pushing on me to read Fort Pit Trail, which is the story of settlers around this area, right? And like reading what they went through. And it's like, holy dinah, right? And you think of today, like, it's Netflix and chill. It's, I don't know, you don't, I joke about Audible. Like, I love being able to drive and listen to a book. But, I mean, even the physical act of reading a book, now we've found ways to make that I don't know, so called easier.

Like, you know, I heard somebody say like once upon a time you had to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Now you can buy uncrustables that is a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, right? Like you don't have to do the physical. And so as time goes on, things get easier, which is hard to, you know, adjust to making a hard choice, as you call it. But if you do certain things like that and feel that, because of the, that that is something that is very palatable.

Like you can just like, oh, it was hard to get up the extra 15 minutes or maybe it's an extra hour, right? And get up and start moving. But once you do that, it's hard to forget about that. Like it's almost impossible to see what an extra hour in the morning can give a person. Absolutely. Absolutely. And you know, the path of least resistance is the worst path we can take.

And I think it was Seneca that said, a gem can't be polished without friction. Same goes for human beings. It's what makes us, the obstacle is what makes us stronger, which makes us better. You know, there's an interesting story in the way of the peaceful warrior of this old guy, he takes on this young Dan, and he's trying to teach him to be a better human being, and he gets Dan to pull him up the hill in a wagon. And all the neighbors are making fun of this old guy getting pulled up the hill in this wagon,

while the young kid's sweating away pulling up this old guy, and they get to the top of the hill and Socrates says to young Dan, he's like, all right, hop in, let's ride it down. And now they ride the wagon down and they're hooting and holler and they love it. And they almost crash at the bottom and they get out. And then Dan says, oh, yeah, he's like Socrates. He's like, you know, going downhill. He's like, that was so much fun. And Socrates looks at Dan and says, yes, but which makes you stronger?

Right. And I think that really spoke to me in that one is that, you know, it's not always about taking the easy path. It's not always about taking the easy choice. It's the hard choices and the hard path, I think, that make us better and make us stronger, right? Yeah, there's a lot of wisdom in old Socrates, isn't there? Oh, there is. And in all philosophers, I feel like I really go back to the philosophers of old. They knew more about being human than we do today.

There is so much distraction today. And you're talking about the settlers in your area. Man, what a hearty breed. like what a hearty really we are so soft compared to you know our our four fathers and our four mothers before us compared to what they toiled and suffered through but I guarantee that their enjoyment and their satisfaction with life was much greater than than what we're experiencing today well I will hop in there and say one of the cool things about the stories in there is it's talking about like you know living through the Canadian Prairie winter in minus 40 as we

all know, but in like a shack where the, you know, you're all sleeping in the same bed with, I don't know, straw for a mat and the water inside is frozen in the morning. So you can kind of get an idea of how cold it is, right? One of the stories is they try and get water out of a, you know, a pond or whatever. And there's tadpoles in it. So they end up just boiling it and eating the tadpoles, right? You can kind of get a sense of what type of breed they were. And yet, in almost 99% of all the stories, they talk about laughter and happiness and how it was a good life, a good life. And that's something pretty cool, right? Like you don't need all the bells and whistles, so to speak, to recognize the good in life, right? You got to slow down, you know, what do they

talk about slow down and smell the flowers right like slow down smell the roses it's it's a not exactly that but at the same time it kind of is right like our world is just picking up speed right and COVID slowed everything down and maybe allowed a few people to kind of focus back in on their family life or their friends or um i know a lot of it's trying to keep us apart but some of the people i've talked to have really embraced like, wow, it's just kind of nice not to have to run every second of the day, right? Now we're doing more of this, which I love being in the room. But now that we don't have to travel four hours to do this is enjoyable too. And you got to look at the good with the bad, because at all times, no matter if COVID had happened or not, there was good, but they were still

bad, right? And they come part and parcel. They're always there. For every strength, there's weakness in every weakness there's a strength and then the more days that i spend on this earth the more i've realized that and and the obstacle is the way you can always find in it something that is the benefit that makes you stronger that helps you know polish the gem right and it all comes down to perspective is how you're looking at things but you know there you remind me when we talk about how easy things have gotten today very you know compared to the pioneers before there's another great book out there called the Celestine Prophecy, written by James Redd. I've read it, yeah.

What a beauty book. And if you remember, he says that, you know, well, we went off trying to answer our science questions of the world, when we figured out that we weren't the center of the universe and that we sent off all these scientists to bring back knowledge in the world, he said, we really dedicated the humanity or human lives to surviving. and we've gotten really good at surviving. In fact, we've made it very comfortable,

and I speak just from our area. North America. There's challenges all around. But we've gotten really good at surviving, but we forgot to ask, what are we surviving for? Like, we got all these modern comforts. We've got all of these things that are around us

that are supposedly making our lives better, but then what are we surviving for? I think it's important that people say, well, you know, how am I supposed to live this life? But they're asking someone else when really it's a question we should be asking ourselves is we got one shot at this. How do we live it? What am I going to look back on? What do I get to do? Right? Well, it's, it's, I'm glad you finally brought up a book. I'm like, I'm like, okay, got to read that. Well, he's making that sound really good. You finally hit a book. I'm like, well, at least I've read one of these things. Like, geez, what have I been doing?

but one of the things I we're doing this bike trip here coming up uh we're biking from Lloydminster to toughnal Saskatchewan which is in the middle of nowhere uh and back it's about 150 kilometers raising money for for breakfast programs for schools in the area and uh that's how you came up actually that's why i was meeting with donnie is we was talking about the goat and getting involved with it and anyways that's another story but i guess i had like at dawn on me like it comes and goes i guess but like a month and a half ago i'm like you know we just don't always assume we're going to be here for another 40 years right everybody's going to the average age is growing and we're going to be here until we're 82 and we got lots of days left and then

you kind of think about it and you go yeah but tomorrow cancer could hit i drive a ton i mean we all statistics, we kind of forget about that, but I mean, driving isn't exactly the safest thing in the world. And it just, it's one instant and you're gone. It's like, well, did I get everything I wanted out of this life? And so I made the choice like two months ago to do this bike trip, right? Like, let's just try. Let's just see what happens. And if it fails miserably, I tried. But what happens if it goes beautifully and great things come of it? Well, then you get to keep going and pushing and who knows who knows where that leads but you only get one crack at it well the fact that it's based on the success of others it will be success it will be it's because you're you're trying to help

others around you and so not only you're going to benefit from peddling a thousand kilometers which i got to say is impressive right but the fact that it's all dedicated to helping others it it will be a success it can't not be in my eyes is yes there'll be challenges and tribulations along the way, but ultimately the end goal is focusing on the success of others. And two quotes kind of come to mind on there is first is from Yogi Bear of all people on a cartoon. You got to love Yogi Bear. That he said, you can't fail if you don't stop trying, which I absolutely, I tell my boys

that all the time. And then the other one that comes to me is, it was Teddy Roosevelt that said, you can either rust out or wear out. And he says, I prefer the latter. And so I took that as I you know what? I don't want to sit here and rust. I don't want to sit there and take a look at all this wasted time spent. I'd rather wear out.

I'd rather take this torch we've been giving and burn it as bright as we can and hand it back all spent than having something left in the tank, right? Teddy Roosevelt has a ton of great quotes because he has another one about getting in the ring and getting bruised and battered. But I'd rather be in the ring than sitting as a spectator. Now, I'm torturing that. I don't have Dennis's ability with the quotes. But I get what you're doing. I got to clarify, you know, you talk about telling the truth. I'm not biking $1,050K.

I'm one of 10 individuals biking an hour-long stints doing $1,050K as fast as we can go all through the night nonstop there and back. We're doing it in a way that COVID we're abiding by COVID rules. We're making sure that nobody. everybody's around each other for the most part, right? And safely, by all means. And we got a bunch of rookie people. I'm exposing, you know, it's funny. I'm curious what this is going to do to a group of 10 people

because I'm a guy who had 15 years ago bike Canada. So I have experience with long distances, not that I've done it lately. And there's three other guys that have biking experience. But the other six, there's a couple of them that are like, yeah, I don't own a road bike. Well, we're getting them one and they're coming. And we're going to find out what they're made of.

And it's going to be a lot of fun. And exposing people to what they're capable of is a powerful thing for them to experience. And I'm going to find it again in myself because it's been 15 years. I haven't pushed the envelope, so to speak, in a while. And I'm looking forward to doing that again. I actually kind of get giddy just thinking about it. And to have them do that to themselves will be fun to watch. Oh, for sure.

You know, it's not just share your own riches, but it's revealed to them their own what they have inside. And the other thing that I think you could introduce them to is padded bike shorts. That's going to be something that is critical, right? If they haven't been in the saddle for a long time, then that's definitely going to become their best friend on that trip. Now, I got to ask, I brought this up before. One of the cool stories Donnie told me about you is he's leaving the company you guys worked at in Eminton. and on the same day you get canned. And the way he told me the story,

I was just like, man, that's a guy I want to sit down with. Like that, that's something that's straight out of movies. And maybe I'm building it up more than what it was, but I thought maybe you could just tell me a little bit about it and see if there's a,

you know, something I can pick at, just to add a little bit more to it. Well, as I mentioned, the owner that I worked with was less than scrupulous. and the straw that broke the camel back was taking from some of the salespeople, I decided to make that my stand, and that was the hill that I was going to die on.

And I'm very happy that I did. And at that point, I realized if someone like that can run a company, well, so can I. And then I figured if I'm going to be traveling for this company, well, then I can live wherever I want. And then I'll travel from there and do that. And I was always into sailing and surfing and everything else. And so we ended up, you know, I approached Kevin, got the rights of the program. started practicing what we preach by going out and talking to clients, building clients, built up from there.

Then we ended up moving out to the island. And then we've been on the island. And the business just kept getting bigger where we expanded. We had more people on the team. Keynotes down in Las Vegas. I've done MGM Grand, New York, New York, Planet Hollywood. I did the last one was in Florida at the World Marriott, which is the largest Marriott in the world, where we had 500 for leadership talk from there.

And that just kept building. There was a TV show that went to help write the book with Kevitt. And then, you know, the other thing that we haven't gotten into, which I know Donnie likes to share too, is I joke that I love sales and sales. I just spell it differently. And so I've got two concurrent careers. You and I were talking about this. So I've got Killing Her Bank that does the customer focused sales training and has morphed into

leadership training, which people have really started to book as well. And that, you know, it's interesting. When I get into these courses, Sean, I say to people right away. I always find when people teach these courses, they feel that they have to have all the answers and that they feel that they have to be the know it all in this. And that's not who I am. And I'll say at the very beginning, I'm like, listen, I'm not an expert. An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less

until they know absolutely everything about nothing. I go, I'm a student. I'm a geek for this stuff. And so you may ask me questions where I'll go, I don't know, I can't answer that. And that's okay because we're here together talking about it and we'll come up with our own strategy. And so that's where, like a lot of people, this last group that I did for the provincial government

with the emergency preparedness, a leadership course. He's like, well, why am I listening to you? And I said, well, I don't know. I said, I'm just the geek here. I said, I, you know, I've worked with a lot of people. I've read a lot of books. I've implemented a lot of theories. I've worked with a lot of crews from the Coast Guard, which we'll get to, to working with clients, to working with teammates. And I said, you know, I've learned a little bit along the way, and I'd love to share it and hear your thoughts as well. And then everybody goes home. Okay, well, what did you learn? And now we start the conversation and then they end up loving the courses. So yeah, it's pretty interesting that way.

The sales side has really taken off. And that's been very rewarding because every day I feel like I'm helping good people achieve success in their role. But the other side that I have is the Coast Guard side of things. And so where that started for me is there was a chowder contest down in Cowich and Bay close to my house here on Vancouver Island. And I was down there eating a bowl of chowder. And down on the road there is there was a really nice rib, a rigid hole inflatable. So what most people would call a zodiac, a rescue boat that was sitting on the trailer. And so I'd recognize at the time I wanted to volunteer within the community.

I wanted to help out the community. I knew that I loved boats. I knew that I wanted to be in the water. I'm standing there looking at this rescue boat, eating this chowder. And this girl in a uniform comes up beside me and she says, you like that boat? And I'm like, yeah, that's a sweet boat. And she's like, would you like take it for a rip? And I was like, I'd love to take it for a rip.

And she goes, sign here. And that was the Coast Guard auxiliary. And the next thing you know, I'm at a meeting for the Coast Guard auxiliary. And then I'm learning how to be a search and rescue guy on the water out of Mill Bay. And now I'm a geek for this stuff. I'm learning. And again, you know, passion and purpose are contagious. So if you're forced to learn it, and it's not something that you're interested in,

you're never going to excel as much as someone that loves it and wants to learn more and get more out of it. And so I started to really learn that. And I became a crew, went out on some pretty crazy calls, I worked my way up to the captain role where you've got to go off to BAMfield. You take this training called riot training, rigid hall inflatable operations training. Sean, some of the craziest things I've ever been a part of within that course. Seven days, five and a half meter Cs, 7.33 meter boat. You know, it's got the twin engines on the back.

You do your night runs with no electronics. They teach you how to run in the big seas. They flip the boats. You've got to learn how to get out. It was amazing. So I did really well at that course and they said, wow, you're right into this. Do you ever think about instructing? I said, well, I do it on my other career, not in the volunteering side.

Would you like to help out us? I said, sure. So then next thing you know, I became the assistant instructor for the auxiliary doing their on-the-water stuff. So I became their heavy weather handling, their search and rescue navigation, restricted visibility on the water where we teach some classroom stuff and simulator. And then I take crews out on the water. From there, I get, you know, I share this with you, Sean. people look at me and they go, whatever. And I start to, I share all this stuff. And they're,

they're incredulous. They don't believe it. And I say this to my wife, Renay all the time. I'm like, people think I'm BS and but they've got no idea. So from there, I get, I get picked as one of the top coxins. That's my rank is small, what they call an FRC. Does you just say top coxman's? Toxin. Yes. That is my title. So that's basically a small boat captain, right? Rescue craft. And I get picked as the Cox end of the year. And so they shipped me off over to Germany to do this, what they call an IMRF crew exchange, where I'm with an international crew,

and we toured the North and Baltic seas sharing best practices for search and rescue. And I'll share, I tell you. So wait, I got to ask, you're a kid from Emmington. How long did it take you to get comfortable with the high seas? Like, that shit scares me. I'm still not.

I have such a healthy respect for that. And, you know, I did, I grew up like water skiing, weightboarding. Hey, you got a great lake. Sure, yeah. My wife's got family out there. So all of it started with that, taking a little tinner out, going fishing, you know, hopping behind a wakeboarding boat and doing that. And then we get into surfing and sailing.

But your question being comfortable in the high seas, I'm not, you know. I'm, in fact, I'm very wary and I have a very healthy respect for my. mother nature. And you know, I can think of one of the worst days that I had is we're out at sea for five days. We pull into port and this is when we were in Germany doing the North and Baltic seas. We get an afternoon off. What does sailors do on their afternoon off? Well, we went and drank. And so we went and had a bunch of pints of beer at the oldest pub in northern Europe, 1208. I walk in. They were playing Billy Jean by Michael Jackson. It's filled with cigarette smoke, dark tables. It was so awesome. And then we big pints of beer.

And next thing, you know, it's like 10 o'clock at night and we're oleo laying out on the pavement, jumping around and yelling, and then we get back to the ship. And then the next day we're on the ship and we go out to sea and the seas are big. They were big seas. And all of a sudden, we had a camera crew following us and we had a journalist that was following us. And so they all get us down on the deck of the boat when we're heading out. We're all in our foul weather gear. And the camera's there and we're all talking to people and everything.

You can see all the crew. So, and I can remember the crew. I got Yako from Finland, Yako from Estonia, Ollie from Iceland, Simon from Norway, Peter from Denmark, pops, we call them from Thomas from Denmark. And I'm missing Gavin from the UK, myself, and then burned, and another captain from the German Coast Guard. So we're all together from different areas.

And they do this thing on the TV. and then they're like, okay, everybody up to the bridge. Now we're heading out to sea. It's really rough. Water's coming over, and I'm hung over. Everybody's hung over. And I feel the first beat of sweat start to come down, Sean, and I went, oh, no, oh, no. Rip the toque off, rip the jacket off.

I start shedding gear as fast as I can, but I'm already sweating. I know it's coming next. I run down the back of the gangway to get out onto the deck. I'm pushing my way out of three of my crew members that are also trying to get out at the exact same time to hang their head over the side of the ship for two days at sea. If you ever want to know what the projectile force of a salami sandwich is at Beaufort seven C, unfortunately, I can tell you that. And it was probably one of the roughest I've been in and the sickest I've been in.

And we did recover. We did some first aid exercises and jumped in the ocean, which helped wipe it all off. But when you ask about being comfortable on the seas, I'm not. I'm not comfortable. But I respect the seas. and my job is to get out there and help people that are in trouble and bring them back, not necessarily to spend a lot of time out there. Being on the auxiliary, do you get called on a lot?

Yeah, I would say that in our area, there's busier stations from where we are, is we get probably 20 to 25 callouts a year, so a couple of months. And we'll have all the way from really minor to broken down, need to toe, calm water, to heart attack calls, you know, major medical emergencies, both, fires. So I've responded to a triple boat fire. I end up doing a CPR on a guy for over 40 minutes on a heart attack call. It's been varied and enough to keep you involved and engaged, but not too much like where I find like with the fire department. You've got another great guy in your city, Aaron Backeham. He's a firefighter. The firefighters, the level of calls they get is

really, really overwhelm. So this is a bit more manageable pace for sure. Okay. Well, we're slowly running out of time here. I want to, I want to go back. You said, you were talking about when you were working for an employer, he was doing things that wasn't on the up and up, shall we say. And you said you finally had a hill to die on, right? Like this was where you were going to, I'm really curious about that because I, well, from my life so far, there are very few people who will go to bat like that. Like, I would say almost none. Like, you're in a very fine company of many people will turn the blind eye, we'll just quit and go somewhere else. They will not take the stand, so to speak. So I guess, what did that teach you that moment, right? Like, because I assume that's the first time

you'd ever walked in and said, listen, this is the way it's going to go. And I mean, made it pretty crystal clear either things change or you're out the door. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, it was just down to values at that point. And I, you know, I've got certain values that A, have been taught into me by my parents and B, what I picked up. And it was respect to others. It's respect to work that they do, give credit what credit is due. And I really felt that this individual wasn't doing that. And I'd seen several instances. And there was one kind of lot. that I ended up catching them in that I just went, I can't do this anymore. I can't turn around and talk to other people when I know what's going on. And I'm not going to be the person that condones it.

They say if you accept it, you condone it. And that wasn't the case. And so I just went, no, I'm going to stand up for what I believe is right here and let the world help carry me from there. And it has. It has, Sean. That's, you know, that's been that one defining moment. But yet in that moment where getting fired, where, you know, people,

could really look at that and say, well, that was the obstacle and then they could quit and go a different direction when really it's the best thing that's ever happened to me. It was, but yet a lot of people would perceive that as a negative moment in time, but really and truly, it was the springboard that's, it allowed me, it, it, what's the word I'm looking for? It catapulted to me to do something that I knew I could that maybe I was just too hesitant to take that first step. Well, I admire that. I've used the word of Meyer a few times in this hour, but I find, well, I'll say it again. Very few people would do that. Very, very, very few.

And I mean, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know that. Like in the working world to stick your head up, especially for somebody else. I mean, that's an admirable quality you have. Now, as we close in, because I don't want to run over time for you, I know you got a course coming up. I want to do the Crudemaster Final Five. It's five quick questions, short as long as you want to go. I'll make sure we're out of here so I don't run you over. But I shout out to Heath and Tracy McDonald for support in the podcast since the very beginning.

The first question I always asked, Dennis, is if you could sit down with somebody like this or, in your case, stand with somebody. Who would you want to pick their brain, pick about their stories and who they are and some of their experiences? living or dead? Are I allowed to pick? Am I allowed to be magical on this? Sure. Have to be within the living. No, I think you get as magical as you want to be.

I think I'd go back to one of the ancient philosophers. And, you know, I've spoken about Socrates, Seneca. I'd love to go back and sit with the greatest thinkers of our time. You know, I read the biography on Abe Lincoln, so he'd be another person that would be interesting to sit down and sit with as well. Yeah, so I would go back to the ancient philosophers. So if I had to narrow it down to one, I'd probably say Socrates or Plato to start.

And then if I get more after that, I'd dig in on those. Well, then I'll follow that question up with. If you could go back in history and sit in on one conversation, who would you want to be sitting down with? Now you don't get to talk. You just get to listen. Yeah. Oh, that's a really good question.

if I can come up with something quick because there's just so many things that I would love to be able to go back and be a fly on the wall for at that time. Hmm, you'll have to let me get back to you on that one. Fair. I'll let, uh, once you do, I'll make sure I post it. Um, you talk about all the books you like reading. What's one of the books maybe, uh, you've mentioned some of the ones that have been influential on you, but what's maybe something you're reading currently that you're really

enjoying, say maybe the last year or two? Uh, well, actually, I just finished one. called The Obstacle is the Way by Ryan Holiday, which was a great book about the stoic philosophy of realizing what's within your control, what's without, look at the obstacle and recognize the obstacle is the path that makes you better.

So that was really good. Once I got finished that book, I've started another one called Letters from Seneca. And again, this is all based on Stoic Philosophy. And it's awesome. And the thing that I love about this book so far is it's him writing letters to his best friend that's a knight that's been shipped off to another country as a representative.

And so the writing letters back and forth. And when Seneca writes the letter to him, he always says, I feel indebted to you for your friendship. So I'm going to give you one nugget of wisdom in this letter. And so every letter, he gives him one piece of philosophical wisdom and then signs off, farewell, my friend. So the book has been riveting so far because it's just all these letters of two friends going back and forth asking questions.

So if I was going to suggest people to start reading and what they were going to get into, First one would be the way of the peaceful warrior. Second one would be the Republic. And then from there I could list probably 40 other books that I think would be influential. If someone listening to this was starting in sales tomorrow, what is your one piece of advice you'd give them moving forward? It's about helping people buy. It's about focusing on what they want or what they need and what can make their lives better. It's about asking good questions, and it's about problem finding.

And you can turn the way that you communicate and the way that you sell into a competitive advantage if you're very customer focused and you help people through the process as opposed to being selfish and trying to be self-focused and drag them towards some end result. And your final one, we'll have a little bit of fun with it. We'll take you back to the Nate Ux. let's assume Dennis was putting up the big points and tomorrow could have his pick of the NBA. Where would you head and who would you want to play with? Okay, again, so I would say historical or now?

I think, well, let's go now. Now. We'll go now? Yeah. Well, I've always been a Lakers fan. So I have been Lakers from the beginning and I loved Magic Johnson. But they've been struggling as of late. And while to play with LeBron would be great.

But I think the Canadian in me would say that I'd have to go to the Raptors and represent a Canadian NBA team. Because as a kid growing up, that was never an option. To think that we would have an NBA team and the fact that we have an NBA team that's won an NBA championship, I think I'd love to don a Raptors jersey if I could. That was, you know, I'm not, I can't sit here and tell you, I'm a huge basketball guy. I'm not. But that run of the Raptors was some of the funnest.

sports I've ever watched. Like it was just intense. And Kauai Leonard was the man. Like that was a sad day when he left. But that year, well, not even year, that run we had with him was something

all of us Canadians, you know, that got to witness it can never, that can't be erased. Like Joe Carter hitting the home run back in the day, right? Like I know the, I was young for then,

but my brother talks about it all the time, right? Like that's a moment you just can't forget. Well, Kauai Leonard hitting a couple of those shots, is something you ain't never forgetting. Yeah, totally. And, you know, we could get on a whole different tangent on that one because it was the whole team,

not just Kauai, that won it. But I really feel that that run brought basketball to the masses in Canada. Like basketball camps were jammed full. You drive by any outdoor basketball hoop. It was like the, you know, the Oilers run in the 80s where everybody was out playing street hockey. Well, everybody was out playing hoops. So, A, it got people active. B, it got them interested in the game that we created.

created in the first place. So I think it was an incredible run. Well, hey, I appreciate you open up some of your busy schedule to me that I've really enjoyed sitting down or, you know, half sitting, half standing. It's been a really enjoyable hour. So thanks, Dennis. Well, hey, I really appreciate getting the opportunity to get on here. I know it's a little bit scattered. There's a few things that we've talked about, a few different areas that we've gone. But there's, I really appreciate the opportunity. And like I said, I really love the fact that you're focused on helping the community and helping people get better. And I'm excited about your bike trip.

So I think that's awesome. I look forward to hearing about that and helping kids with school. So it's a pleasure to interact with a fellow kindred spirit. Quickly, if somebody listens to this and wants to get in touch, maybe get some sales training, et cetera, how do they go about doing that, Dennis? They can go to triple WKillingherb.com. Or in your fine city there, you've got one vision consulting with Aaron Buckingham, who is a alumni of our program and a he,

huge, huge proponent of it. He'd be a great guy to call and have a chat with. He can share a lot of the gyms with you as well. So we've got the local Lloydminster source there through Aaron and Donnie. And then if you're interested in more, definitely killing her.com. It would be a place to look. Cool. Well, thanks again. Hey, it was a pleasure being on here and I've enjoyed it. The only thing is I wish we could be having some beers and some chicken wings and get even deeper and stuff. Hopefully we'll get that chance in the future. But I really appreciate the opportunity, Sean. Thank you. You bet. Thanks, Dennis. All right. Bye for now.

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Hey, Keeners. Hope everybody's having a great day. well I gotta give a shout out right off the hop to Jayden Colbeck he reached out after Ken and mine's last podcast there 168 and he just said hey Sean just finished up listening to your latest episode I can definitely get behind what you guys are doing and would love to donate so he's talking about

this bike for breakfast and he wants to help and there's been a lot of people reach out actually and want to know how you can you know get involved and so there's a lot of things things going on right now, but the easiest way if you just want to donate a little bit of money is go to the GoFundMe page.

You can find that on, you know, any of our social media, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, all the links there, have the GoFundMe there. And I'm going to try and get a roundtable of a few of the bikers as we get a little closer, but just appreciate all the support and all the kind

words that have come from everyone. I truly think it's it was I don't know. We're calling it a proof of concept. I call it a dumb idea. Like it's just a silly idea to bike to a quick dick and see if we could raise some money. And now it's just starting to look like it's going to do a whole lot of good for a lot of people. So I appreciate everybody who's listening and, you know, hanging or tagging along and reaching out and wanting to get involved in this. And I think

that's super cool. I think it's really a powerful message about our community and what we stand for. So hats off to all of you. Yes, including you, champ, and I hope that you, you all have a great Monday and we will uh we'll catch up to you Wednesday all right we got a great one coming Wednesday um a hockey a hockey star from the area hops back on the podcast so I'm looking forward to that all right we'll talk to you guys Wednesday