Shaun Newman Podcast - Ep. #177 - Maverick Party Leader Jay Hill

Episode Date: May 24, 2021

Title says it all. Leader of the federal Maverick Party hopped on to discuss why they might be the best for the west. Let me know what you think Text me 587-217-8500

This is Glenn Healy. Hi, this is Braden Holby. This is Daryl Sutterin. Hi, this is Brian Burke. This is Jordan Tutu. This is Keith Morrison. This is Kelly Rudy. Hi, this is Scott Hartnell.

Hey, everybody. My name is Steele-Fer. This is Tim McAuliffe of Sportsnet, and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks. Happy May long, if you're Canadian, I guess if you're down in the States, Memorial Day probably hasn't happened just yet. But here up in Canada, a favorite weekend, I think of all of all of, of ours, the start of what I believe is summer anyways.

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And by all means, if you stop in any of these businesses, make sure you let them know. You heard about them from the podcast, right? Now, let's get on to that T-Barr-1, Tale of the Tape. originally from Fort St. John, BC, held office from 1993 to 2010. He's the current leader of the federal Maverick Party. I'm talking about Jay Hill. So buckle up. Here we go.

This is Jay Hill. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Today I am joined by Mr. Jay Hill. So first off, thanks for hopping on. My pleasure, Sean. Great to be here. Now, I was briefly telling you this.

before we started that we had a hockey draft, as you know, the playoffs are in full, full board. Wait a second. Jay, who's your team? Well, I don't actually have a team, but I guess the closest I would have would be the Calgary Flames because that's my home for the last 10 years. Well, they are playing right now. They're just, they're not playing meaningful games. But I used to cheer for the Ottawa senators when I was spent a lot of time down in Ottawa. And before that, my home was up in northeastern bc it was the vancouver canucks and and of course during the great run of the edmonton oilers we of wain gretzky i was a big oilers fan so a little bit all over the map no loyalty i guess well you finally hit my team right at the end i wasn't uh i was only born in 86 so you can imagine

i don't really remember any of the cup runs i'm told as a one or two year old i was in the building for the 88 cup run so uh i guess i was around but that doesn't mean i remember it Well, you'll remember all the stories, and they were great stories. Yeah, absolutely. Well, when you get a team that good, there's for sure to be great stories that follow. Yeah. Now, what I was getting to was essentially, we had a hockey draft the other night. Obviously, the playoffs are rolling.

And we, like everything right now, it's structured around COVID-19, the vaccine, or politics. or just all three of them strung together. And you can go off on any branch you want when you go down any of those roads. But that's all the conversation has been. What I found fascinating was Maverick was talked about that night, conservatives were talked about that night. And a group of eight men from, I call it 35 to close to 50, nobody had a consensus.

And I started chuckling and I went, well, let's start up the conversation. And that's why Jay, I reached out to you with your involvement with the Maverick party coming out of retirement, everything else. But I thought maybe for the listeners to start off with and me not to be too long-winded, you could maybe give us a little bit of a background on yourself so everybody can understand just where you're coming from. Well, first of all, don't apologize for being long-winded because actually it uses up a little bit of airtime and saves my voice. So there you go. And as you know, politicians, even former ones are for a while, I called myself a recovering politician. They just love to hear the sound of their own voice.

So it's great to hear someone else. A little bit about myself. I was born and raised up in Fort St. John in the Peace River country, beautiful Peace River country, I'd say, of northeastern British Columbia, just across the border from places Lake Grand Prairie and Peace River, Alberta. and raised on a farm there, took all my schooling there, worked in the oil patch, just about every job you could name both in exploration and in production. I know what it's like to send a pig down a pipeline. I know what it's like to run a compressor station out in the middle of the boondocks.

And I know pretty good hand on heavy equipment, building leases and roads and air. strips and the like in the wilderness. So, and then I got back to the farm, a farm for almost 20 years with one younger brother and my father and got involved in farm politics, Sean. That's kind of how this started out for me in my early 30s, had a young family, three young children, increasingly concerned about their future, and along came this movement, I'll call it, called reform. And in the mid-80s and I hooked up with them and one thing led to another and even though I had no intention of being a politician, enough people had seen me in action with different farm organizations to encourage me to become a candidate for this young upstart party called the Reform Party of Canada.

And that's really what started me into the world of politics. That was in 1988. The party was less than a year old. we ran, I believe it was 72 candidates in that election. No reformer was elected. We didn't elect our first person to the House of Commons until Deborah Gray won in the Beaver River riding in northern Alberta in the following spring, the spring of 89. But I stayed involved, fought off a nomination contest in 92, and ultimately won in 9. became elected to the House of Commons in 93.

Subsequently, five elections more after that. Served for 17 years as the Member of Parliament for Prince George Peace River and I thought I ended my political career in 2010. When I resigned my seat, resigned from the House, I was a sitting cabinet minister actually running the House of Commons for Prime Minister Harper at the time as his house leader. and I stepped away, what I believe to be, stepped away permanently from politics, moved to Calgary and set up a one-man government affairs, government relations firm, just operating from my home,

proceeded to make some pretty good coin for a few years with a number of different clients and ultimately retired a couple of years ago or thought I had. So that's a quick snapshot of Jay's Hill's career for 17 years in federal politics. If I do the math correctly, in 88 you would have been turning 36. So I just turned 35. I've been saying this for the last probably three months because politics in my early 30s, late 20s, was nothing that even remotely crossed my mind. And yet, as I have now three young kids, getting into my middle 30s, and just starting to see what's going on in the world, I become ever more increasingly worried by where we're heading. And it's funny, I've been saying for like the last probably two weeks, I'd really love to know what my father thought at his age. And roughly, you know, he was born in 56. So it would have been the early 90s when he was at my age. But I mean, in that time, droughts and everything else going on coming out of the 80s, for that matter. What were you?

do you if you take me back to it when you're like putting your name in for reform and people are pushing you what were your biggest concerns back then john they were very similar ironically uh you know i i borrowed that phrase i forget who it was that originally used it whether it was jogi bear or whoever whoever it was sounds like something he'd say deja vu all over again and And that's what I'm experiencing right now. The issues are the same, sadly. One of the biggest issues for me in the mid-80s was the runaway debt and deficits. The country was running $40 billion in a whole every year, adding that to the debt. So that was probably my singular biggest worry for my children and future generations. Well, you can multiply that by about

10 times right now and we're in the exact same position, which is a tragedy as far as I'm concerned, Sean, because I was there for the early reform years in Parliament and Preston Manning and the other 50 reformers that were with he and I in those early days between 93 and 2000, say, pushed Prime Minister Jean-Cretchen and Paul Martin was the finance minister, then of course to address the debt crisis that was facing Canada. And they did, and I give them full marks for that. They didn't do it probably the way reformers would. But nevertheless, through a reduction in transfer payments to provinces

and cutting back on federal government spending in other areas, they balanced the budgets and started to run surpluses and pay down the debt. Well, here we are, you know, some 35 years later, we're not only right back where we started from with the deficit and debt, we're far better or far worse off under Mr. Trudeau. Last year, it's been revealed finally, belatedly, that he and his government ran about a $354 billion deficit. That's more than they took in in one year. If it keeps going the way it has, and it's projected to, in another few years, he will have accumulated more debt since 2015.

That's coming up on six years this fall. So five and a half years, he will have accumulated more debt than all 22 prime ministers before him. So that's what your young children, Sean, have to look forward to. The same kind of situation that my kids were facing, and that's just one of the issues.

That was the single biggest issue that motivated me to leave for. the farm and get involved in politics. So I, like, billion, trillion, just everybody in the world seems to be using those numbers. And I feel like most of us just sit here and go, like, I just don't get it. Like, I'm concerned about it. I go, running a deficit like that makes no sense. But I just, where does that lead us, Jay?

Like, I just don't understand, like, these giant, giant numbers. Everybody says them and they say how much terrible Trudeau is doing and yet he's got a popular standing right now. And you hear them all and you go, well, what is this spell for our kids? I feel like if people could paint that picture better, you'd have the entirety of Canada motivated to be like, well, we can't do that. But right now it's just like we can print money and there's no repercussions. Like, hey, no big deal. We're going to spend trillion dollars. Great. It's all good. We're just printing money, it's great. But in your mind, obviously it's concerning to you. I mean, geez, you retire, you come out of retirement to start a brand new party to hop on this thing

and try and get some like-minded people to help do exactly what the forum did 35 roughly years before because the same thing had been happening. So why is it that the one side isn't concerned about spending? The other side is concerned about spending. I know this is multiple questions, but I'm like, to the layman man, everybody talks these giant numbers, but they don't. don't talk about the repercussions of what's coming if we don't get this in check. Well, the first thing, when I was in Parliament, I used to quite often, when talking about billions of dollars, because you're quite right. It's just a word, right? Billion. What the hell's that mean? I used to, you know, just hesitate in my speech and say, just so people understand in

the real world, a billion is a thousand million, okay, just so people can try and wrap their head around it. Used to be if you were a millionaire, you had some money back in my day, at least. And so imagine a thousand of those millionaires. That's a billion dollars. And so last year, imagine that times 354, 354,000 million dollars was spent over and above the money that came in through taxes. And so that's the first thing, is to try to put it in, as you're suggesting, Sean in context. Secondly, what's going to happen? I would direct people to Greece and say that's where we're headed or Venezuela. That's where we're headed with that type of suffering with people that actually are going to go hungry in this country. And, you know, I don't want to be the little boy

that cried wolf kind of thing or the guy standing on the street corner with a placard saying the end is nigh. But we are going, future generations, Sean, are going to pay for this. In one way, or the other, or probably in all of the above, higher taxes, reduced standard of living, lower social benefits, whether it's health care, education, you name it, that we currently spend money on. To give you some idea, and remember that I just described a billion as a thousand million, it's projected in the next five years. Well, that's not very far ahead. So you're thinking your young children think in the next five years, interest, even if it doesn't go up, interest on our national debt, thanks Mr. Trudeau, is going to increase by $20 billion. It's going to double.

It's projected to go from $20 billion a year to $40 billion. That's $20 billion a year that we will not have to spend on social services or tax relief or any of the other things that we've grown accustomed to in this country. And so future generations are going to pay for it, either in a lower standard of living, higher taxation, less opportunities. You and I have been blessed because of our forefathers. I had the opportunity to be whatever I wanted to be. The only thing that was holding me back was Jay Hill. And that's what my father and grandfather's generation gave me. and now when I look at the opportunities that my grandchildren, your children, are going to not have because of choices our generation is making, I weep for the children. And I recently did a video on that very subject.

Why aren't people concerned about it then? I know there are people concerned. I shouldn't say that. But out here in the West, we stare at it and we go, yeah, let's get back to work. Like, what are we doing? Let's get back to work. you're a guy who's spent a good chunk of his life out east and it just seems like it's a record like the differences are never coming together between the two sides like they're just we're too

far apart or something but i don't understand it because if if i'm a person out east like that makes complete sense to me that's going to hurt their children too that ain't just going to hurt the west it's going to hurt the entirety of canada so why is it that people in certain pockets get that and understand it. I're just like, this is, we are, does anybody just get it

that we can't have the money tree? Like, that doesn't work. You got to earn it. And yet, here we sit. And, you know,

by poll standings, which I never thought on this podcast, Jay, I would say, that by poll standings, liberals win. And it doesn't even look

like it's a question again. They call it tomorrow. They're winning. And out west, that may shock people, but that's what's happening. And you can fight it all you want, but that's what the polls say.

And I just don't get the sense that anybody seems that worried about it. Well, you're right. They don't. And I don't understand it either. And I was so dismayed and disheartened by it on the night of the election in October of 2019. When if you look at the results, largely Central Canada, Central Canada and the Maritimes, reelected what I believe to be the most unfit, unqualified, unprincipled, individual to ever be prime minister of this country, not just in my lifetime, but in the history of our

country. And they, largely, they reelected him. And that was the night that I became a Western separatist after being a proud Canadian, a proud federalist all my life. As I said, this is not going to work. It is just never going to give the West, the fairness and the equity and the respect that we deserve after everything that the average westerner is contributed to Canada. And I'm not just talking about dollars. I'm talking about blood, sweat, and tears. And that's why we named our party Maverick, by the way. The West was built by Mavericks.

And a Maverick stands for somebody that is going to break outside of the mold and take risks and take chances and be innovative. inventive, and that's, to me, that describes Western Canadians in so many respects. I'm glad you answered that question. It was on my list because my oldest brother goes, you know, I just don't like the name. Why did they pick Maverick? Why couldn't they have picked Western whatever? They had to pick Maverick. He goes, what the hell is Maverick?

So there you go. Yeah. Well, tell them to look it up in a dictionary. He'll be surprised. And the thing that we loved when our board chose that last summer, Sean, was that it describes people from every walk of life, every ethnicity, every religion, every background, male, female, you name it. There's been, you know, people in the gay community that have been Mavericks. You name it. It describes people from every occupation.

And of course, some of our occupations in Western Canada in particular have had a long list of mavericks, certainly agriculture, people that have led the innovation and the development of our industry. And oil and gas, my goodness, so many First Nations have had their share of mavericks. So regardless of age, young, old, people ancient like me have been mavericks down through the history of Western Canada. So we're very proud of the name. We think it's gradually coming to be accepted. People are beginning to understand why we chose it. It's certainly controversial. We'll admit that.

But anyway, tell your brother to look it up and then have a discussion with you about it. You hear that, Jay, look it up, big shooter. You know, you've mentioned this concerning you in the 2019. election. I remember where I was sitting, you know, I'm a sports guy. Now, I think a lot of people understand that about me as, you know, a smile here with missing teeth. The jersey's on the wall, everything else. 2019 is one of those moments that is not sports related where I sat there and I just went, it unnerved me. I just, it's nothing I'm against Justin Trudeau and the liberals, like the liberal party, the left, whatever you want to call it. It just, the way he talks, the way that the

he won the light on what he won the election on and everything else. I just went like I feel like I'm a common sense guy. I love how you bring out all the groups, but I just go like in a common sense world, I go like, can we just talk to people and just be done with it? And maybe that's not the way the politics works. But like 2019 was one of those moments.

I sat and I watched a full election and went, I can't believe this is happening. Like, what is going on? And it's where my real interest in politics really started to foster, you know, is like, like, this is something else. I really don't understand this. And here we sit. And I know he's got lovely hair.

And every woman from a different country goes like, yeah, but he's so good looking. It's like, great. You can have them because I don't get it. So I guess the next thing that came up that night was, as I rant about his hair and his good luck and whatever else, was. Just socks. Don't forget his socks. No kidding, right?

And his attire of where he goes to other countries and just makes a mockery of us all. whatever. That's me on a side rant, and I don't want to get everybody worked up over that. It's just my thoughts on it. I just don't get it out of a leader. I want a leader who, you know, makes the tough calls. And when you listen to him, talk, you go, wow, like, yeah, do I love it all? No, but at least he's standing behind what he says and he speaks with authority and everything else. I don't get any of that out of Justin Trudeau. But my question is, you know, one of the big things that has come up, whether it is the Mavericks, federally, or whether we're talking provincially, and we talk, Wild Rose, we talk Buffalo Party, is everybody talks on the right about splitting the vote and how you

cannot do it. I feel like when I kind of research the Maverick as much as my green political mind does, I feel like the Maverick is maybe a little bit different. And I thought maybe you could talk about splitting the vote as I put in, you know, parentheses. Thank you, Sean, because that is the single biggest question that comes up all the time about our new party is that aren't you just going to split the conservative vote, elect liberals, and re-elect Justin Trudeau. And certainly that's the fear campaign that the Conservative Party of Canada is launched against Maverick.

That is the campaign that the provincial governments use against independence parties in Saskatchewan and Alberta as well. Now, their situation is a bit different. although I would direct people to take a look at what happened in Saskatchewan with the Saskatchewan party in the last election, which was just last fall. They only ran, I believe it, was in 17 ridings. So there was no way they could re-elect the NDP government, even if NDP would have won, and they didn't. They ran in the strongest Saskatchewan Party ridings. And so the choice for those electors in those writings really came down to be between sending aside.

party, a candidate as their MLA back to Regina or sending a Buffalo Party candidate. Really, that's the choice. That was the only vote splitting that took place. And similarly, Sean, we have had actually, it predates even that Saskatchewan election. We came up with that strategy last summer and we've been communicating it ever since. We intend to run and organize in the 49 strongest conservative ridings, Western Canada. Now most of those are in Alberta, because as you know, the Conservative Party of Canada swept Alberta, except for one Edmonton riding that the NDP held on to. There are, in addition

to that one riding, there's another three, I think three or four out of the 34 that we don't want to run in. Why? Because we probably would elect a liberal if we ran in those writings. One of those happens to be my riding here in Calgary Center, where we recently did have a liberal member of parliament. And the current MP, conservative MP, has only been there since the last election. So we don't want to run where we're going to split the vote. And so that's how we address that. So really, it's a couple of things. One is we're not running in central and eastern Canada. That's where reforms split most of the vote with the old PC party and allowed Mr. Kretchen to win three back-to-back majorities. But we're not going to run down there. So there's

not going to be any vote splitting there to worry about, certainly not on the part of Mavericks. We're only going to run in the West. And as I just said, we're going to run in the strongest conservative ridings. So the people, for example, in your riding, I think it's Lakeland, they're going to have a very clear choice. They can do like they've always done and send a conservative to Ottawa. They're happy with their conservative incumbent and the record that he or she has had for Lakeland

and the representation Lakeland has had, then they'll re-elect that individual. Or they can elect a Maverick. And a Maverick will debate and vote and speak for Lakeland only in the sense that they'll re-elect that they will be true Western representation. They're not going to have to couch what they're saying, and they're not going to have to have their whip or their leader,

tell them, well, no, you can't say that, because it might harm our chances in Quebec or in Toronto or the, you know, 905 around Toronto. We can't have you saying that, you know, about the need for constitutional reform. We can't have you saying that that your constituents don't believe in a carbon tax. Oh, my goodness. No.

you cut that part out of your speech, well, they'll have a chance to either reelect a conservative or elect a Maverick. That's how simple it's going to be in the next election. So then my next question is simple. Let's say you get 10 Mavericks elected, which as I understand in politics for a brand new party may be a stretch. But let's say you did. What effect on anything can that small of a group have on

anything? Well, I would I would direct you to both the NDP and the Block Quebec law in Parliament. You know, neither of them have ever come close to becoming government. And yet I believe, especially right now in a minority liberal situation, take a look at what the NDP, the influence they have. They actually have the government by, well, I was going to use a certain phrase, you probably should, they probably have the government by the shirt tails. And Jagmeet Singh has an enormous influence despite the size of his caucus. That was well put. That was well put.

So then I guess the theory is with Maverick being only Western. So you're not going to run in a whole bunch of riding zone in BC. You're not going to run through Ontario into Quebec and eastern Canada. The theory is, listen, guys, we don't want to win. We want to be able to speak for the West and become very much influential out east so that things out West can be spoke for, essentially. Because if I'm reading between the lines, even though we voting conservative, which we believe has our rights, you know, not our rights, what our wants are, they still have to appease everyone else, which means they have to give up what the West wants because we're a smaller riding. We're a smaller number of writings. Thank you.

Two thirds of the ridings and therefore the majority, vast majority, is east of the Manitoba, Ontario border. In fact, over 50% of the population of Canada is in a narrow corridor that runs from Windsor to Quebec City, takes in little known places like Toronto and Montreal. You know, so the reality, Sean, is that under our current system, the West always has. been and always will be ruled by what I have taken to referring to as tyranny of the majority. Why do I call it that? People challenge me and say, well, Jay, don't you believe in democracy? Democracy is one person, one vote. That's where the most people are in Canada.

Therefore, they should have the power. And I say, absolutely. It should be fully proportional to their population in the lower house. allegedly Canada is supposed to have a bicameral system of government. What does that mean? That means two houses, buy two. But in reality, our Senate is an international joke. If you travel anywhere in the world to a democratic country and describe how people

operate in the upper chamber of our parliament, they are appalled. Either that or they just laugh, that we would have an archaic system where our senators are still appointed by the prime minister. And it's unequal. For example, Ontario and even Quebec, both individually have as many senators as all of the West, all four western provinces, they have six each, and that they have 24 senators. So the reality is that the system of government we have, discriminates against the less populated regions.

And that's why I call it tyranny of the majority. And until we get that change, Sean, we are never going to find fairness, respect, or equity for Western Canada. And that's why the Maverick Party has what we call our twin track mission statement. We want greater autonomy for Western Canada, either through constitutional change. And we have developed and brought forward, and it's on our website for anybody that cares to take the time

to read it. There's five constitutional amendments that would at least move our country and Western Canada closer to the fairness and respect we're looking for and autonomy. That could be done and we could remain Canadian.

We wouldn't have to move towards independence. And we've said simultaneously with the same amount of energy and resources Maverick Party will also pursue our other track which is laying the foundation for independence. So you say, well, if we only elect a handful of Mavericks to the next Parliament of Canada, what good will they do?

They will be the front runners, the four runners, the leading edge of a movement to establish one or the other. And they will speak constantly about that. They will raise the issues that our conservative members of parliament are mute for. I mean, their party will not let them. We've had our constitutional amendments out there since New Year's. So it's, what is it now, four and a half months. Not one conservative MP has ever mentioned them. Why?

They know that it would be the best thing since sliced bread for Western Canada. They can see that, especially in the last few days. I don't know whether you've heard that Quebec has brought forward a constitutional amendment to declare French as the official language of Quebec, in the Constitution, in other words, to have it enshrined, not that English and French are equal in our Constitution, which is the current status, but for the province of Quebec to be declared a nation

in the Constitution and then to have French, the official language of that nation. And what happened? Not only Trudeau fell all over themselves within a day or two to agree to that demand from Quebec, But Aaron O'Toole, the supposed true blue conservative jumped on the bandwagon too. Where's our Western MPs to say, well, wait a minute. If we're going to do that, if we're going to allow that to happen to meet the wishes and the desires of Quebecers,

what about the West? What about the things like a AAA Senate that we've been calling for for decades? Where's that on the radar screen? Well, Sean, I'm sadly here to tell you that it's nowhere, and it will be nowhere until we get some people elected to Parliament that are committed to raising those types of issues. And don't particularly give a tinkers dam what people east of Manitoba think about it. A tinkers dam. That's that rate there is as close as I'm going to get to having a politician swear on this thing, I think. a tinkers damn. Is there anything, I'm curious, is there anything that could happen? You know,

always say, you know, nothing's impossible, right? Is there anything that could happen that tomorrow, the Mavericks just go, oh, wow, well, we're not needed anymore, right? Like, could the conservatives win? Surprise everybody. And then push through, listen, we're going to give the West more autonomy. Is that possible or is that just like, no, that's, that's a fool on's there. and that's never coming to pass. Well, there are things that can be done. We fully support, I think it's about 16 of the 21 or whatever there was, recommendations under the Fair Deal panel here in Alberta.

You remember that panel that was structured by Premier Kenny, put together some recommendations to achieve greater autonomy for Alberta, not for the West. We've been very supportive of the majority of those recommendations. One of them, for example, deals with equalization, you know, obviously a thorn in the side of most Westerners, in particular, most Albertans and folks from Saskatchewan. So there are things, Sean, that can be done,

and they actually don't even need the Parliament of Canada to accomplish them. What they need is provincial governments and premiers that will aggressively pursue those recommendations and develop things like our own pension plan and greater autonomy for, healthcare delivery. And I don't even remember all the lists now with our own firearms officer so that perhaps we can have more regionally sensitive firearms laws,

our own police force for the provinces of Western Canada. So there's a number of things that can be done that don't even involve the federal government, just to involve Western governments and Western provinces is taking the lead from Quebec on areas of immigration and things like that and exerting the powers that they do have. Thus far, there hasn't been a lot of movement. Jason Kenney in Alberta certainly was moving in that direction, but of course, allegedly everything got sidelined because of this COVID business.

So to answer your question, there's a lot of things that can be done, not to the point where I would say we wouldn't need Maverick anymore. because Maverick is designed to bring fairness and equity, as I said earlier, to the West that we've never had. Our Constitution was designed put in place in the 1800s and has substantially not changed since then. And so the old upper and lower Canada, which is now Ontario and Quebec, they had a system in place to treat the West like a colony and to draw resources from the West to, meet the needs and the expenditures of the East. And that system has worked really well for them, not so well for us. And so what Maverick is saying is that this cannot be allowed to continue because

it'll never change unless we force the change. I think most people when they hear that, West specifically, obviously, it's trying to pull things away from the East, go on. Actually, that makes a lot of sense. my next maybe my final question before we we slowly close this off i don't want to keep you all night but is is um you know you laugh you said an hour geez how are we going to get through that well we're we're slowly closing in um is how many mavericks do you think it takes to get any of that accomplished out east well i this i have said since the beginning last summer shan

this is a marathon not a sprint put it in terms of that a sports fan like yourself will appreciate. So, you know, I hate to try and discourage people that this isn't going to happen overnight. It'd be beautiful it did. I know on social media we get the comments all the time. What's wrong with you guys? You know, we need independence now. And, you know, barring armed insurrection, which I certainly don't support, how are you

going to get independence now? And when you've challenged people like that that are frustrated to the point where they want to be Western Canada to exert their independence overnight. There is no other process other than a slow, steady build. You start by laying the foundation. You start by electing a handful of Maverick MPs that the West can then see are truly representative of their hopes, dreams, and aspirations as Westerners, more for their children and grandchildren than for themselves.

and when you start to get a group of, you know, mavericks down there that are speaking out, it'll be the same as when we first elect reformers. We had the same arguments back then. People said, well, what good will that do? What good will it do for it to send a few reformers down there? As I just explained to you, take a look at history. It was because of Preston Manning and the reformers that we ended up with a balanced budget, started paying down the debt and building a better future for our children.

That's what reform did. with 51 MPs in 93, 52, 51 plus the question. So, I mean, you can make a change, but you can't start without starting. Yeah. I think what you're cementing in me is that, you know, we keep thinking we can just keep on this road of like spending and, and I don't fully understand the numbers, right? Like I say this again, like the billion, the trillion, the zillion. At the end of the day, every country in the world seems to be doing it.

Like the numbers are so ginormous. It's like, I just don't get it. I don't get where it takes us. I get that it isn't good. But when I hear you talk about, you know, you just got to get started. And you got to start working on this. And if we don't get started, we turn into Venezuela or Greece. I think if people don't understand what that means, they should look into Venezuela or Greece and see where they're at.

And if you get kids or you're even a young guy, you look at that and you go, I don't want to be there. I don't think anybody wants to be there. No country wants to go where Venezuela or Greece are at. And so I get that. Once again, I appreciate you coming on because to me, the group of us guys sitting around, which we did socially distance and not illegal at all, I look at and I go, like, it's pretty crazy to me that there is some people very passion there. they just don't have a plan out of this. And when you bring up a party like Maverick, I guess at the time,

that's why I wanted to have, yeah, I didn't even fully understand it. I'm like, I kind of get it. Gee, maybe a guy should reach out and try and figure out

what they're trying to do. And you being a former reform party guy, you mentioned reform and people, oh yeah, I remember reform. Yeah, yeah. Like it's, you know,

they didn't win though. And I'm not sure about that, right? And it's like, well, when you hear about it, that kind of makes sense. And I think what you're,

what you're trying to do, do I commend you for because if there's anything I've learned in my short time of thinking about politics entering the discussion is it turns so many people off. People don't want to get into politics because I mean it's a very passionate issue. Like this isn't one size fits all by any stretch. And then on top of it, there's even less people that are willing to do what is necessary to fight for not a year down the road. But like we're talking like five, ten, ten, 20 years down the road. And that is forward thinking that's hard to come by. Yeah. And, you know, there's a couple old adages that come to mind. The one is, you know,

people that don't learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it. And we see that constantly when it comes to politics. And the other is, is that people that choose to not be involved in politics are destined to be governed by those that do. You know, and so, I mean, those types of old slogans or adages, I really commend to people to stop for a minute and think about it. And especially if you're, if you have families, or like you say, even if you're young people and thinking about your own future and looking at where the opportunities are going to be for you in the future. I mean, to me, it's sad, the brain drain that's going on.

How many people in particular in the oil and gas industry, young people, young family, have left Western Canada to seek gainful employment and opportunities, career opportunities in the United States in the last five years. And it's going to continue. It's probably going to accelerate because we have a national government in this country that has put the scope on our energy industry unfairly and are outright attacking it, trying to destroy our energy industry. I don't understand it.

Like you're saying, you're puzzled by a lot of the decisions that are made by politicians. Even as a former cabinet minister, Sean, I'm deeply troubled and, you know, dismayed by the decisions that the Trudeau government is making. I mean, this man is the prime minister of the country. If he could even understand a balance sheet at all, he would be able to see that the billions of dollars that have flowed from the oil. sands, for example, have supplied income and prosperity for people all across Canada. You know, steel manufacturing in Ontario to name one. It isn't just the direct employment in Western Canada. And yet he, as our leader, has said that he is looking forward to phasing out.

That was the term he used, phasing out the oil sands. I mean, you know, when I said earlier in the program that he's the most unfit, unqualified, unprincipled individual to ever occupy the PMO, it's true. And it astounds me that Central and Eastern Canada reelected him in 2019. And as you say, from all intents and purposes, it looks as though they'll reelect him again. Maybe even with go back to giving him a majority where he doesn't even lead to listen to any of the other parties to get enough vote. to pass his agenda through the House of Commons. So we have to make a dramatic change, and hence the Maverick Party.

That's why I came out of retirement last June. That's why I continue to try and build it. My primary goal, and that of our small board of volunteers, Sean, is to establish, build, and maintain credibility for this party. because if we destroy the credibility, then Westerners will not have the alternative that we're seeking to allow them to have when the next election comes around.

Well, I think you're coming on. I want to hop into just the final five. We do a little segment at the end, get you all fired up and keep you here for a couple hours. But I'll do the Crudemaster Final Five. It's just five quick questions, long or short as you want to go, just to kind of end it off. And I really do appreciate you hopping on, Jay,

and fill in my brain with a bunch of politics, which once again, when I started this, I would have never thought I would be interviewing anyone on the political side. But it just seems to be such discussion topic that it makes complete sense that I dive into it a little bit and try and figure it out even for myself. So regardless, I appreciate you coming on. The crewmaster final five, a shout out to Heath and Tracy McDonald.

They've been supporters of the podcast since the very beginning. I always start with if you could sit down like I'm doing with one person, who would you take? Who would you want to sit down and pick their brain? And pick their brain? Yeah. Hmm. You know, you really flummoxed me there to teach an older.

Winston Churchill. Yeah. Does it have to be somebody alive? No, and Churchill would be fantastic. Can you imagine sitting down with him for an hour and getting to pick his brain on policy and going through the war times and everything else? Not having been fantastic.

Well, and politics. I mean, he ran for two different parties at different times. He was involved in a lot of tumultuous escapades, both in his personal life and his political life. And, of course, he had the distinction of very successfully leading the Commonwealth, the allies, you know, along with the United States, through the Second World War. And then to get thanked for that, he promptly lost the next election right after the conclusion of the Second World War. So, yeah, quite a lifetime.

It would be great to have a discussion with Winston. Who has been your favorite politician? You know, and you talk a lot of a life of politics. Who's been somebody that you've maybe worked alongside or? worked underneath that's inspired you. That's been one of those leaders that, you know, you're like, wow. I'd have to say two people come to mind. Preston Manning, of course, my first mentor and the leader,

original leader of the Reform Party, started a party much as I've been trying to get Maverick going. So Preston Manning, definitely for a lot of different reasons, could get into a long discussion about that. Secondly, Brad Wall, I believe very strongly that, Brad Wall and I've seen a lot of politicians, not just in Canada, the United States, but around the world, democratic world, you know, making speeches and trying to connect with people. I've never seen a politician better at it than Bradwall. He just has some very, very unique ability to connect with

people. I've seen it happen myself in a room of, you know, 1,500 people. And he just, in his speaking, the way he presents himself, just reaches out and connects individually with people in the crowd. So I'd have to say Brad Wall. Could Brad Wall be a Maverick? Well, I've certainly had many conversations with him about that. I'd hope that if we built the vehicle, political vehicle, Sean, and established the credibility, built a membership and a war chest and, you know,

and the fundamental policies, which we have now on our website, that we could, and hopefully still may, attract somebody, if not Bradwell, somebody of his caliber, next generation, much younger and better looking than me, and to take off the reins of the reins of Maverick. You worked under Prime Minister Harper for several years. Do you have a Harper story? I feel like in my lifetime, he's one I remember leading this country.

and from a conservative standpoint, he was someone to behold, so to speak. Do you have a story of Harper or anything that impressed you about him? Oh, there are a lot of things that impressed me about Stephen Harper. I believe that despite his failings and we all have them, Sean, he was the greatest prime minister of my lifetime. and I can name the reasons why I believe that. But suffice it to say that I think on a world stage, on the stage in Ottawa, on the way he conducted himself in his grasp of difficult, controversial issues, he's head and shoulders above anybody I've seen occupy that office. I had the great good fortune to work very closely with him.

first for a number of years as his whip, the person responsible for caucus morale and discipline, and then later is his house leader, both in opposition and later in government. And so the house leader has to, especially in government, operate on a day-to-day, very close connection with the prime minister. And I had that great privilege. And I just couldn't say enough about Stephen Harper, I believe, as they say, that he had our ship estate on a pretty good course.

But by the same token, then people will say, well, why can't we return to that and have the next Stephen Harper, a Western conservative with a conservative majority government, and that would solve the problems. And Maverick wouldn't be necessary. And I say, well, the thing I've learned is it would be necessary because if we couldn't get or done, as we like to say out West, with Stephen Harper, the only reformer, I might add, that will ever occupy the prime minister's office in this country. So he was our last chance, as far as I'm concerned, to make some of these fundamental changes.

And he couldn't get it done because the system was against him and against us. So we have to try a new way of going about business, political business in Canada, and we'll see what happens. Now, for one little story, the thing that pops to mind is I remember a day when we were under a lot of stress. I don't remember what the issue is. I mean, pick a day, there was high stress, high drama in that bubble that we call Ottawa on the House of Commons. and we were on the second floor. I was heading for downstairs to head for question period. So it was middle afternoon and just happened that Stephen came out of his office on the second floor

and fell in the step and we were walking down the hallway together. And I was bitching and grumbling about my job and how difficult it was. And straight face, he had a very dry sense or does have a very dry sense of humor. to me and he said, well, Jay, he said, that's why you get the medium bucks. And I've never forgotten that. I'm not sure whether it was truly the medium bucks or not, but that's what he said to me. And I've always laughed thinking about that. It's become part of my lexicon. Your final one, I'm always curious about what people have read that's been influential on their life, whether it's in the last year or in your lifetime. Is there a book that's

that sticks out to you that you've read, that you enjoyed or had an impact on your life? Not one in particular. I'm going to have to take a pass on that one. In my leisure time, I've always been a break from the time I was a youngster, even before preteen. I've always been an individual that had an inordinate fascination with conflict, with the world wars, with the heroism of individuals that stood up for something and stood up against evil and tyranny. And so I have amassed quite a library about Canada's involvement in the world wars. And those are my true heroes. That generation of people, my father's generation. for the Second World War, before that the First World War.

So I've read a lot of books about military history. And not in any way, shape, or form, Sean, to glorify war, but to recognize the commitment and the depth of character and the personalities that would pick up arms and go to defend the rights that all the rest of us take for granted every day. That's fair. There's not, there's not, it's a tough question to pick one book. And speaking of wars and world wars and everything else, I got, I was fortunate enough

to interview Cy Campbell, who was in 94 at the time. I believe he's still with us from Unity, Saskatchewan, who was a tail gunner in World War II, and he told me all about it. I got to record it on the podcast and it still sticks out as one of the, ones I'll never forget, Jay, because how many opportunities do you get at that in this time and age? Not very many. No, there's very few of them left, as you know. So I envy you that opportunity you had to have that discussion with someone.

And the one thing that seems to be generic to all of them is they never want to hear themselves described as brave or heroic or heroes. or they always attribute those types of descriptions to all of the young men and women that didn't come home, not to themselves. And that humbleness is another great treat of Canadians of that generation. Couldn't agree more. Well, I really appreciate Jay, you giving me an hour of your time. This has been enjoyable and I've certainly, I think, learned a little bit more specifically about the Maverick Party, if nothing else. And I appreciate your time and hopping on. Well, thank you so much, Sean.

I've enjoyed the conversation. You promised me that I would before we did this. And you lived up to the promise. So thanks very much. I just encourage all of your listeners to check out Maverick Party at www. www.maverickparty.ca. It's easy to find. Everything that you want to know about Maverick is there on that website.

And check out so that you've got an awesome. option and maybe you too are a maverick. Awesome. Thanks, Jay. Thank you. Hey folks, thanks for joining us today. If you just stumbled on the show, please click subscribe. Then scroll to the bottom and rate and leave a review. I promise it helps.

Remember, every Monday and Wednesday, we will have a new guest sitting down to share their story. The Sean Newman podcast is available for free on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, and wherever else you get your podcast fix. next time. Hey, Keeners, wherever you are on this fine May long, I hope you're cracking a cold pilsner. And if you're the champ, don't crack too many cold pilsners. All right? We'll talk to you guys Wednesday.