Shaun Newman Podcast - Ep. #191 - Cal Nichols

Episode Date: August 2, 2021

Finally the white buffalo is on the podcast. Cal is an extremely successful businessman who kept the Edmonton Oilers in Edmonton not once, but twice. Extremely cool story about how it went down, the roll he played & the lessons he learned along the way. Let me know what you think Text me 587-217-8500

This is Glenn Healing. Hi, this is Braden Holby. This is Daryl Sutterin. Hi, this is Brian Burke. This is Jordan Tutu. This is Keith Morrison. This is Kelly Rudy. Hi, this is Scott Hartnell.

Hey, everybody. My name is Steele-Fer. This is Tim McAuliffe of Sportsnet, and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks. Happy Monday, Holiday Monday. And man, we got a good one on store for you a day. This is the White Buffalo. I've been trying to get Cal on the podcast for two.

plus years so it took some time finally got them excited for you guys to hear this one before we get to that though let's get to today's episode sponsors carly cloths and windsor plywood builders of the podcast studio table for everything wood these are the guys i keep talking about deck season it is blowing by this summer i mean it is just august long and maybe you're still working on some projects these are the guys to go see when it comes to wood uh all you got to do is just look good they did it was a while back cedar A cedar deck renovation. Man, like, it looks sharp. Just go to their Instagram or Facebook page,

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Clay Smiley, Profit River, their update on the new. building interior walls vault under construction they have custom walnut caventry and gun rack being built it's exciting they are moving into the old buckle here in town the old bar is turning into Prophet River which is gonna be super cool I can't wait to get a tour of it they specialize in importing firearms from the United States of America so it doesn't matter where you are in Canada you can utilize Prophet River and they make sure to take care of all that nasty paperwork that none of us want to deal with,

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He co-founded Northridge, Canada Incorporated, founder of Gasland Properties, chairman of the Eminton Investors Group. He's been inducted in the Alberta Business Hall of Fame, awarded the Queen's Golden Jubilee Medal, and named to the Order of Canada, talking about Cal Nichols. So buckle up, here we go. This is Cal Nichols, and welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. So welcome to the Sean Newman podcast today.

I'm joined by Mr. Cal Nichols. So first off, thanks for sitting down with me today. You're welcome. You know, I've nicknamed you my white buffalo because this has taken some time and some effort. Nothing that really put me down. I was willing for the challenge, and I'm very happy that I finally got you. That's an original. I hadn't heard that one before.

You know, two words, I really want to dig into growing up. You know, your Paradise Hill Boy, with roots originally, there and then of course St. Walberg. One of the times we chatted, we were playing St. Walberg and you told me to look in the rafters, so I got to see your number retired there. So I'd love to hear some stories of growing up in Paradise Hill, St. Walberg, that type of thing.

Two words or two ideas that I got stuck around with your story was one, you had vision and two, you're very community-oriented. And I think your list of works really show that. So I really want to dig into some of that. But maybe we could start with growing up in Paradise Hill. You know, I assume it was a little different back in the early 40s to early 50s. Right. Well, actually, I was born in Paradise Hill, but in my younger years,

we actually lived in Frenchman Butte. And when I was about, I don't know, 13 years old, my dad, got transferred by Imperial Oil down to Paradise Hill, which was only 11 miles away. But growing up in those days, in the wintertime, I remember some winters, the snow would be so deep. We didn't even have roads, so we had train service. Frenchman Butte was the end of the rail line. And we had four kind of freight, semi-passenger trains. a week and one skunk, which was a passenger train, which was came up every Tuesday,

went back to North Bottleford. So if we needed any medical services, any emergencies, sometimes the only way you could get out of there was by train. But anyway, you know, that's where I first got involved in like every other kid playing hockey and And there was so few people there that we had, some players were very, very small and young, others bigger and older. So it was a much different looking team photo than what you get today and everybody's basically same size, same age. But anyway, we made it work and we used to travel around to other small communities.

and play hockey. In summertime, it was very similar with baseball. We'd go to all the ball tournaments in the immediate area. And then, you know, after graduating out of high school in Paradise Hill, I was 19 years old, and I ended up getting into business right away in St. Walbert, which was another 13 miles further, basically east of Paradise Hill. And so that was my foray into business. And I was not really legal age to be able to sign in,

so my dad had to do that for me because I wasn't 21 yet. So I got a very early start in business, and lots of good memories. from that, I mean, you're basically starting from scratch and, you know, you did, you know, you did what you had to do to survive. And I was living with a family that owned a restaurant in St. Walberg. And they charged me $55 a month for a room and on board. And I ate off the menu. And I lived with them for six years before I got married. And I was kind of like my second family so anyway when I first started in the bulk plant in the Esau

Bulk plant in St. Walberg I the drinking age then was 21 and I couldn't even go in the beer parlor and have a beer with my customers so made me a little different than most of the business guys in town but anyway we were able to work around that however we could and so anyway that that led me to get very involved in the community. This is what you do in a small town. You participate

in everything. So at a very early age I was elected to town council. I was the president of the Chamber of Commerce for a session, belong to the Alks and whatever other organizations are going on there.

And then with the high, the baseball team. I was one of the few guys was even out of high school so I was the playing manager of the team

at 21 or 20, I guess I was 21 years old. And with the hockey team, same thing, and so I was the captain in the hockey team. Back in those days, we played mostly

in the North Saskalta League. And so... Who is the teams back then in the North Saskalta that would have been the tough competition. Well, Marwain, Lloyd Minster had a team, Lashburn, goodness. You're leaving me out here on a lurch.

I'm assuming you're going to say the Helmand All-Stars. The Helmand had a team, that's correct. I was curious, you know, people aren't privy to the phone calls we've obviously had. But when I first started this and first started trying to track you down. You mentioned a name, Vern Priest, and playing against Vern. I'm curious.

Do you remember anything of the old Hillmond Silver Dome or playing the All-Stars, I guess, back in those days? Very well. Back then, arenas were just being built in all these small towns in Saskatchewan. and they were all being built out of wood with the fold-up ends on them and Paradise Hill had one built like that initially and as did Hillmond

and I always, when I tell people a story I said we had a team in our league in a community of less than 50 people and they had a closed-in hockey arena and that to some people back then was quite unbelievable and you know that team was made up mostly of farm kids

and they were big, strong, tough as hell so it was always fun playing there but it was it was pretty physical and we our team was usually younger kids

and had to depend on speed to get away from everybody so anyway many good memories about about Hillmont. Was Cal a glove dropper? Did you have to dust off the knuckles a couple of times? No, as a matter of fact, I got the trophy for the most gentlemanly player in the league one year, and I had zero penalty minutes. That tells you a little bit how I played the game. Was it, you know, into, I don't know, well, I played, nobody wanted the Lady Bing.

Were you proud of it or was it back then where everybody kind of wanted, you wanted to get a few more penalty minutes the next time around so you didn't get awarded? Well, that was just my nature. I wanted to be out there for fun and there were a number of people I remember some of the dads and the people in the Elmont. They used to kind of, it rib us a little bit. They said, you and Vern Priest are the smile. hilly-k hockey players in the league. We were out there to have fun, and we did. So you've had a love for hockey, then, I would assume,

right from the very early days. Well, back then, you know, you didn't have a lot of choices. We had an outdoor ring to start with, and baseball. And we never had any gymnasiums, and there weren't a lot of indoor options. And so during the course of a year, that was basically either did those or you didn't do anything else. Curling was a part of it, and I did that in high school, but a little bit of volleyball. But for the most part, it was hockey and baseball.

When you talk about being a young guy in business, you were 19 and running an S.O. bulk station, is that correct? That's right. I assume that must have been an interesting few years, learning the ropes for one, but two being 19. I know the times are changed, so definitely you would have been a little more mature than some of the 19-year-olds I know these days. But in saying that, you're still 19 and green, I assume there must have been at the very beginning, a steep learning curve maybe? Well, I knew the business having grown up in it, so I knew the products, I knew the bookkeeping procedure even before that. But, you know, I got to really think about a lot of that because this is getting close to 60 years ago. And, you know, I had 80% of the business we did was on credit.

and much of which you just delivered product to farmers or did heating oil tanks and there was nobody around to even sign an invoice or a packing slip so everything was truly on a merit trust business and sometimes you had to make the tough decisions whether you're going to continue to give certain people credit because of slow pay or whatever and many times back then some farmers really depended on credit for cash management and they really only had about two parts of the year that they had money to pay their bills so sometimes it got stretched and you used to have to think about how am I going to make this work and be able to get to the next year next season so you know that that was

you talk about a learning curve, you know, dealing with middle-aged, in some cases older farmers and having to be a little bit rigid with giving them credit. But, you know, one thing about farmers, particularly back then, they really never let you down.

And many of them from time to time were short of cash when they needed to pay their debts or their bills. And I took in, on trade, I've taken in cattle, pigs, hay bales, fence posts, but, you know, never did they not try to pay you one way or another. So I got lots of great memories of doing all those things. What brings you to Amundsen? Why the change?

You're a small town business owner, grew up in the area, become successful. You're playing senior hockey. You're a counselor. Like, you're ingrained now in St. Walberg. I mean, if there was an opportunity for you to work in the community, I feel like you took it and you ran with it. What gives you the jump to want to move to the big city back then?

Well, you know, you, you, you, you, you, At different times, you look at life and you say, what do I want out of it? And do I want to spend the rest of my life in a small town? And as much fun as it was in the great relationships I had because you knew everybody in town. I got a little concerned that, you know, the socializing side of it

could lead you down a path that, you know, a rut that you may not want to get into. So, you know, by the time I was finished there, I'd gotten married. And I came over to Alberta and BC quite a bit, and like everybody else did. And I observed that there was just seemed like more prosperity, particularly in Alberta at the time. And so I made the decision to move over. here. And actually, when I first got here, my dad and I would bought a hotel in a small town north of the city here. And before the deal closed, he passed away suddenly at a very young age,

51. But I carried on and I saw the deal through. But I had to go back and spend a lot of time in Paradise So cleaning up his business. collecting all the outstanding bills and settling stuff. And my mother was still there, left alone. So I got, I had a person from Paradise, actually, a farmer that had been around the hotel business quite a bit. And he offered to go up and help run the place while I was getting started. So when I got things sort of, you know, settled and put to bed,

I kind of found myself looking for something to do and my wife really didn't want to move out to that small town live in a hotel because we just had our first baby, our son and so we rented a place in Edmonton and I went back to Imperial Oil because it was their region office here in Edmonton just sort of fishing around a little bit

and asking if they had anything available in the Edmonton area that an agency or whatever. Turned out they did not have that sort of an opportunity at the time. But the senior management there asked me if I wanted to come work for them as a salaried employee. And at the time, they were only hiring MBAs and B-coms, and I had not been to university. but they wanted to try taking somebody that had field experience in the trenches and go out and be an agent supervisor. So I agreed to do that while still owning the hotel.

So I worked as a salaried employee. My territory was north and east of Edmonton all the way up to McMurray and Uranium City, Coal Lake. And on the weekends, I would run out to the hotel. It was about 50, 60 miles away. And I'd tap beer and do payrolls and stuff like that. Anyway, that only lasted about a year and a half. And then the Imperial wanted to bring me in and put me on a special project team, We're looking at all the processes and ways of centralization because Saskatchewan alone had something

like 300 bulk plants and they could see consolidation was going to be something in the future. So myself and two other guys were on this study team and that meant a number of trips down to Toronto and elsewhere trying to get as much information. and accumulate whatever we could. Spend time over to university here. There had been a lot of work done in rural sociology. So anyway, I spent by this time about three years as a salaried employee.

And then all of a sudden the bulk plant, the Esau bulk plant in Edmonton became available and they asked me if I want to to go back into business again. So I jumped at the chance. In the meantime, I had sold off the hotel. I was kind of out of that. And the way I went in the bulk petroleum business again.

And at the time, Edmonton was really busy, and there was a lot of construction going on. And that bulk plant got to be probably the biggest in Canada at that time. So I did that for 10 years. And at that point I was like still not 40 years old. And I decided it was time to make a change again so I started getting into properties and building some commercial buildings, not unlike the one you're at this location. And so off doing that and had a little stint in the construction heavy equipment business

with another guy. Then a couple of guys I met while working at Esso. This was in 1984. They came and asked if I was interested in yet another opportunity. And at that time, there was obviously going to be a change in government. And the incoming conservatives had made it one of the election promises to privatize the marketing of oil and gas. And these guys, one of them, had worked with the Alberta Petroleum Marketing Commission and was very involved in negotiation of crude with the producers and the refiners.

but it was all up to then it had all been handled by the government or the Alberta Patrol Marketing Commission so we went on another venture and that company we ended up moving it to very quickly to Calgary because that's where all the decisions were made

and it grew substantially and eventually I got bought out of that and it it became a company that was purchased by Transcandidate Pipelines. You're talking about Northbridge. Northridge. Which was my wife's maiden name, is actually where the name came from. Northridge.

Northridge, yeah. Really? Yeah, right. You've just given me like 15 years of life. I didn't realize you owned a hotel. Did you enjoy the hotel business? No. Thinking that buying beer wholesale was a good idea, it didn't turn out that way.

It was just another one of those experiences I had. Glad I did it, but, you know, unless you get really big in the business, it's a lot of hard work and terrible hours. What was maybe one of the biggest surprises about, owning a hotel that you didn't realize was on the summary when you were when you were buying into it well as as in most other small businesses if you weren't there to guard the till that was that was high risk because you had to hire people not saying that anybody did anything maliciously but people are never as careful with other people as they are their own and so you know and the other

The other thing was that it's one thing to go into a hotel beer parlor for your own enjoyment and have a few cold ones, but when you're there serving it and dealing with people all the time, people not always are what they seem to be. So you had to be a bit of everything, a peacemaker, and I just didn't want to spend my life doing that. So anyway, it was just another one of the experiences along the way. You know, one of the things that becomes quite evident as I sit here and chat to you is you're a doer. You're not a guy who, you're working a full-time job and then on the weekends you're running a hotel and everything else while you're working. You're not a guy who sits around and doesn't

do things. Here we are on a Friday, Cal. I would assume that you would be gone for the weekend to the golfing, I could think of a million things you could be doing. And just a little insight to the listener or the watcher, you know, I show up here and I go, okay, well, how long do I got you for? Because this is going to make everything I talk about, either condensed or we can just free flow. And you go, as long as you want, I'm going, or no, until the job's done. I'm like, okay, right? That's pretty cool on a Friday.

I just assumed, you know, life would have you going different. directions well if you're going to succeed in in business you have to make yourself available anytime any place for as long as people want because you're selling yourself and that's what they're buying into somebody that that is it cares about them and wants to give them service and so sometimes you stay too long but anyway I I I just enjoy it. So, you know, I've always been that way.

And by doing that, you just meet a lot of fine people in life. And, you know, so I don't regret any of that. After Northridge, you sell, or you build this company, then you get bought out. Is the world you're right? Like, can you go any direction you want at this point? Well, I did one other thing while we were running Northridge. I was one partner that had put a bit of capital together, and already had restarted a gasoline chain called Gasland on my own,

and started buying properties and building gas bars, just like the one you see out here. And the Northridge guys wanted, they encouraged me to carry on and do that on my own as a separate sister company because the vision was at the time we were going to do deals with producers to take their oil,

do processing deals with refineries, put it through retail gas bars and effect you could tell producers, you can buy your own stuff back through us. And so anyway, when I sold my share out in Northridge, I kept building gas land and so that got to be a company of about 50 locations at its peak

and so that meant that brought me into the property's business because some many places we just leased property to build facilities on but many of them we bought we purchased sometimes the land that was available was more than you needed

so that led to to building on some cases some other businesses, restaurants. I had a couple liquor stores and a few other things. So after Northridge, I just kept on building gasland. Then in 1996, I sold the surface assets of gasland to Husky, but I kept all the properties and buildings, and to this day that's our business we I've been liquidating some of them now because it's now time to do that and uh but anyway uh one of the one of the bigger entities I've had over

all this time is the commercial properties business I'm curious you know you start out with with the one um gas location in St. Walberg and then you talk about at the peak of gas line you had 50 what was what was the difference from managing one store, one location, to having that many? Well, you know, there's only 24 hours in a day, so you just have to decide where you're going to spend your time. So your role changes. Back then it was bulk plant, so that meant driving trucks and doing books. And where this led to in gas land was,

more of a retail, so it was a bit different business. So we had to hire operators, and we set up a lot of guys in their own business to run these food stores, car washes, or whatever they were. And so, you know, that meant you had to hire a lot of people to help you manage this. So just like anything else, you have to decide how to spend your own time, who you're going to bring on board

to do books, accounting, marketing, and so life is just one great big education. I mean, you never quit learning. You just, you make a lot of mistakes, some good decisions. You just hope that you make more good ones than bad ones. And, you know, there's always the, I woulda, should, or coulda, goes on in your mind and it does to this day. but anyway

what's what's one of the best I mean maybe not at the time but what's one of the mistakes that taught you the most you know you talk about good decisions but mistakes or

you know oversights when you didn't fully understand maybe the situation or I don't know I'm kind of leading you somewhere I'm just curious you know you're a man who's who's well hotels you may

restaurants, liquor stores, real estate, and then of course all the different locations with the bulk fuel. There's going to be mistakes made. Nobody's perfect. I'm curious if there was a mistake you made and you went, oh, don't do that again. Well, it's tricky business when you're buying locations to build a facility. And by the time I was doing this, they're pretty picked over the majors. you usually had first kick at it because whoever owned it was more inclined to deal with more financial strength and so sometimes you get left with leftovers and we invested in equipment

and tanks and pumps and canopies and so on in a lot of places it just didn't work and we had in many cases you had long-term leases you had to live out and you had to make the decision do I live with this location that is a non-producer or do I tear it down and just walk away from it and I had to do that many many times because you just nobody can pick winners all the time and like I said you just you hope that you get more good ones and bad ones and that's kind of the way it worked now When you're talking these 50 locations, I'm curious, like, are you talking semis pulling in and fueling up and cars, or are you talking you're distributing?

Both. Both. We had big trucks on the road, and I had some larger commercial accounts. we had a deal with Suncor. I was marketing their what was called the kerosene stream, which is the P-minus 50 diesel fuel. And so that was part of the mix, but most of the 50 were places where cars and trucks filled up. And in many cases, they were dealer-owned. So all we did was we were just a supplier.

We provided a branding for them, and a dependable supply. So I love the back. Like, I assume you had to go scout these locations. Did you make multiple trips to just kind of get a feel for the spot? Or did you just pull up and go, yeah, that's a good spot. No. Well, you did the best.

You could. And I wasn't really a retail guy. I was a bulk distributor. And the retailing side of it just kind of happened. And so, you know, there's a lot of times you made choices that if you had to do it over again, you wouldn't do it just because of the whole game is about location and access. And if you don't have that right, they're harder to make work. And, you know, it's like calling the herd, the ones that don't work you have to get rid of.

And I did sort of grind that down to maybe 25 or 30 of the best locations and lived with that. While you're in all your business endeavors, you know, I've talked to a bunch of different successful guys that have gone on to have just as big a business endeavors as yourself. Did you have mentors or other business partners that you leaned on or even guys from the industry that, taught you some things along the way? Well, you try and keep an open mind to any suggestion or anybody that can make you better at what you do. And of course, there's in large corporations like ESO, so these are highly educated professional people

and just hanging around and if you're paying it, attention, you just can't help but learn. And, but, you know, then there's another side to this too. I was more of a, of a trench guy, a field guy, so I knew a lot about how to deal with construction guys, backhoe operators and farmers and acreage guys than anybody in the system because they'd never done any of this stuff. they were educated guys that grew up in the ranks and that's why they hired me at the time to

Yeah, yeah, skills that translated very well. So we learned from each other. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, in the beginning we were talking about how you, you know, in St. Walberg, when you first moved there, you pretty much ingrained yourself in the community. You know, you were saying any club joined it.

I was on the city council. I was playing hockey. I was playing ball. You were the Reg. Dunlop for the hockey, well, the ball team. And I was just curious, you know, when you come to Eminton,

Emmington is a big step from a St. Walburg, a Paradise Hill, the little rural farming communities, it's, even back then, would have been the giant city. How did you find your way in the beginning to ingrain yourself in this community?

Well, first of all, Doing what I did in St. Walberg was a huge education. And there's many things I learned there that I brought to the city and eventually we'll start talking about Oilers and my involvement. But many of the skills and principles that I had to use here, I learned definitely out there. And the one that I talk about the most is wrestling. and in a small community, if you don't back up and work hard for the community, join in everything,

then the tendency for the people that buy your goods and services are not going to use you, they're going to go somewhere else. So that was a big thing with me that, you know, if I expect people to support me, I got to help them. and it's a two-way street. And you cannot learn that skill in the city as well as you can in a small town because there's no place to run and hide. You're accountable, and everybody's watching every step. Everybody knows you, know everything about you.

And, you know, it's great because if you get carried away with yourself, they're pretty quick to beat you down and if you get down and they're the first ones there to pick you up and you know you don't see that the same way in the city and

I you know those are just the great memories I have of the relationships and the way you had to fit into the community so all that changed was when I moved to Edmonton the community was just a whole bunch bigger

but behavior was a little different and you know some of those skills that I learned back then worked very well for me and reciprocity reciprocity please I'm struggling with the word

you help me I help you no no sorry pronouncing the word I get the word I was trying to spit it out that was your big one you leaned on then for what's going to make you succeed right so

you know Let's go. What happened after I sold the retail assets to Husky, which then made us just a commercial properties company. And so I had a little bit more time on my hands,

and some people would say that's dangerous. So it was about that time that it was 1996. And of course I'd been a season ticket holder with the Oilers back to, well, to the very beginning, WHA days. And I, you know, we always had tickets, and we had a sky suite in the Northlands. And in 1996, the team, you know, the team. Off the ice was definitely struggling. You could just see it.

There's a lot of games. The building was only half full. And I remember the third round of the playoffs, even in 1987, the third Stanley Cup against Winnipeg. I remember 13,000 people in the building. That was it for the third round playoff game. So you could see... It wasn't jarred.

It wasn't full. No. No. And so, you know, anybody that, you know, has sort of a business acumen, you look at it and you know there's issues coming. And there was, and they became very public. And so I got, I don't know if you want me to go there now. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, yeah. I'm following along where you lead, good sir.

Oh, okay. So in 1996, while I was in the process of selling out these retail assets, I got invited down to the Mayfair Club actually to the gathering of business people that were going down to listen to Oilers ownership and management, who had just got back from a league meeting, and the league had recognized that the Canadian teams, the smaller markets were struggling and they were going to need help. So they came up with a program called the Canadian Currency Assistance Program to kind of, because

at that time our dollar was down around 70 cents or less at times. And the wages, the players were all paid in US dollars. And so the league agreed to, so the league agreed to, and the put up $6 million for three Canadian teams, Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver, to try and get them, you know, stabilized and a little bit more on their feet. So this was being presented to, I've said that day there was about 35, 40 business guys. And I got invited by, actually, as it turns out, He was in the construction business, a very young guy at the time, who James Cumming, who is our member of Parliament, conservative for Edmond Center.

So he just said, hey, I'm going to this meeting. He might be interested in coming along. So I went with him. And so the way it was presented to that group was that the $6 million was assumed by the group to be for each team, but as it turned out, after a period of time that it turned out to be split between the three teams. So it wasn't as big a windfall as the people in the community thought it was going to be, that were being asked to pitch in and help with the marketing of tickets.

Because to qualify for that, they had to sell 13,000 season tickets, all their dash for boards, and 90% of the suites. some such thing and that was the only way they would qualify. So they were asking people in the community to help them to get a campaign going to, you know, to reach those goals. And so I, you know, somebody had been picked to lead this. He was a retired chartered accountant in town and city. and they were sort of splitting people up. If you were a car dealer, they said you look after car dealers. If you were in the hotel business, you look after hotel guys. Go out and actually try sell season tickets or other product to them.

And I agreed to go and pitch in and help out. And I said, and you'd be in charge of calling on people in the gasoline service station business. Well, I gave this quite a lot of thought and I said, I don't like the way this is sort of working because if somebody in the car business

was out trying to sell tickets to other car dealers, he's not likely to be as amenable to buying because of him. But if somebody, some kind of, customer of his came along and asked him to do the same thing. It was a different reaction. So we were sort of set up in different teams and so I started to put our group together and was mostly

friends and business, neighbors, guys I did business with. And what we did was we started calling on our suppliers mostly to pitch in and help out to buy season tickets or other product. And when we would go back to the bigger group on a weekly or whatever period of time, whatever basis it was, I was coming back with the most signed commitments to buy season tickets. And this grew and grew,

and then finally I was asked if I would become the chairman of the, of the friends of the Oilers, the whole group, yeah. So I did that. Anyway, to make a long story short, I, you know, we got to the $15,000 and, you know, the Oilers got their seat cap money

and, you know, I thought that was the end, but for me, but anyway, back to the reciprocity. What I actually taught the rest of the group that I wrote trying to do the same thing was you don't go to anybody in your profession or your business, whatever you're in. You go to your accountant, your lawyer, you're the people that depend on you, that build science for you, that supply you with, you know,

construction stuff. And we all in the small mini group we had, that was what we were doing. We were going to people that we had some influence over. And, you know, and so that's how we grew it from 6,600 season tickets to 13,000. Now this mini group you talk about, is this the shrewd 11 that I read about or does that come later? We were called. We, uh, seats? Seats, yeah. Save Edmonton, acquire tickets soon or something like that. True, 11 aggressive ticket salesmen. Yes, right, exactly.

That's what it was. I assume if we were in military groups, you were the elite of the elite, sent in to get the job done. Yeah, the combat group. But you know what? You know, I was saying this on the drive up to a friend, friend of mine. I was, you know, about what you, what's so interesting about you, Cal, is,

A, you've been extremely successful in business. I don't think anyone will argue that. And then you quietly, or maybe loudly, I don't know, right? Like, this is, you know, you talk about the oil, there's 96, and then again, pretty much the year after with Pawlington, trying to sell them to the States and everything that came with that. And I would love to hear about it. It's, Everybody talks about the glory years, the Stanley Cup years, the winning. That's what all gets talked about. As a kid, and it's something, you know, we just went through COVID year, right? And the fear that came with it and still out there, you know, lots of people, we were talking earlier,

don't want to get too close to people, personal spaces, germs, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And the thing I think is, like, that fear, specifically for kids, sticks with them. And one of the fears I had as a young kid, I would have been 11 or 12 when the Save the Oilers signs came out, the SOS, or Stay Oilers stay, I guess. And I remember the real fear of thinking our team was going somewhere else. And to find out that the guy who grew up across the river, you know, and it was many, many moons ago, but to understand that there was a good, healthy chunk of my community. I mean, I consider that area one community, but of a community, I guess, right beside us. And then men from Lloyd Minster as well, business owners from there that stepped up when you went and asked, I assume, to step up and not only in the

beginning do a ticket sales run, but then eventually buy them is wild and a story that needs to be captured. Well, back again to Russ Prossi. You know, we'd spend hours and hours and days going over lists of existing season ticket holders. There's somebody that has two, can they buy four? And we wanted the general public and fans that couldn't even afford to buy product to know who is there helping out. We actually created a catalog, so to speak, a directory, I'll call it, of people that actually were buying season tickets so that day-to-day fans, kids, didn't matter who. If they were out on the street buying something, they could look in there what companies are helping my favorite hockey team.

And this led us down to some roads that got a little bit bumpy at times. We found that there were companies like McDonald's, Save On Foods, at the time Canadian Western Airlines had no tickets. And they were doing tens of millions of dollars of business in this community and not supporting it. So I went public with that and I'll tell you it ruffled some feathers and there was but you know most of them did eventually step up and they got it but what it was was visibly a public display of if I don't help out I can be I can be tracked I can be So if you believe so strongly in our hockey team,

then if all you do is you go to a restaurant or a grocery store or buy a beer, go to the ones that help in your favorite hockey team. And I go right back to what I learned in Paradise Hill in St. Walberg, is that you've got to support each other. Because if you don't, that person is no good to you. He's not going to make it. So that whole principle, I just applied it to a huge market, but the same idea occurred.

I kind of know, what is it about the Emmington Oilers that was meant? So, you know, there had to have been, I don't know, hundreds of businessmen in Emmetton at the time, thousands probably. And maybe there was a bunch more stepping out. I know there would be with and around you a group of them. I don't want to just single you out. But I'm curious, what is it about the Eminton Oilers that gave you so much drive to be like, you know what, we're not losing them?

Because honestly, when I read the stories, it wasn't like it was just like, hey, let's just go do this. It'll be nice and easy. And we got an Oilers hockey club. Like to me, when I read the stories, I go like, this was an undertaking. Well, you have to, excuse me, you have to look back at, the history and you know I guess it all started first we got the WHA team then got entry into the NHL then Gretzky and I mean you could just tell this this was this was a big this was a big deal and this put us in the big league you know we're we

were now competing with the New Yorks and Chicago's and Toronto's of the world for one of the biggest prizes there is, sport prizes there is out there. And we had gone through, we had won four Stanley Cups here. And, you know, cities, at that time, the players

were more out there. And so the public season ticket holders got a chance to be around them a little bit more, get to know them socially in some cases. We had a commercial relationship. with Glenn Anderson, we hired him for a few years while he was, this started in about

1987 I guess it was, to do endorsement work for us. And so we spend a lot of time together, traveled to grand openings all around the country, customer appreciation days. So we became very close and that sort of allowed me at times to become mixing around with some of the other players at that time. Most of them now are Hall of Famers, but, so I, you know, I was one, you know, and there were either's around as well that got to be very close to the team in a way. I mean, I never, I didn't go to dressing rooms or anything. I mean, it was more just, to me,

it was the social side of it. And so, yeah, I guess that's how you get drawn into it. It's really interesting, you know, to me, once again, I go back, because I remember the relief of that press conference of when you guys announced that the Oilers are staying and because there was a lot of, wow, you're the guy on the ground floor seeing all the turmoil and, you know, like, how close did it come to them being the Houston Oilers or whatever they were going to call them? Well, what happened after the ticket drive was I, that was in 1996. And moving forward in 97, I just sensed that there was trouble with the team and it's sustainability as we knew it. you know, eventually it became very public, and the ATB had called on their security, and that meant the Oilers were going to be up for sale.

What also had happened in 1994, Peter Pawlington had made a deal with the city to put public money, into an upgrade in Northlands to put sky suites in and loush tables and a lot of other things. And to do that, they created something called the 1994 Edmonton Location Agreement, which basically said if the team ever got into trouble or to stabilize it to make sure there was stability, here before the owner could sell the team

he had to offer it to local buyer first. So they pig the price at 70 million US, which was at the time about 100 million Canadian. And so when the ATB called on their security, they started

looking around four buyers and if none could be found that meant it was going to move somewhere else. And so at that At that time, I started to think, how can we come together as a community and stop this from happening? How do we save this thing? So I started, again, I was looking around, like, who can help?

And I got introduced to the guy that had been the CFO going right back to the beginning of the Oilers. and he had since moved on, but I spent time with him and he was able to bring up all the standard NHL formats, the financials, revenues, expense lines, and so on. So my learning curve went up a whole lot with him. And, you know, at the time I didn't have a lot of personal wealth to put into this, but I knew there were people around town that probably could step up. But I also quickly became aware that this was a different crowd than the people who were trying to sell season tickets to. In some cases, the same ones, but for the most part,

it was a different group. And so I just started thinking through, if we brought enough people in together, could we raise enough money to meet the terms and conditions of the of the Edmonton location agreement. And it became clear to me that in order to have some operating capital, we were going to have to raise about $110 million. So I started meeting people, got introduced to people.

Some I heard of, didn't really know, others I didn't know. came up with a soft, I wouldn't call a letter, it was a form of commitment. It wasn't a legal document, it wasn't binding, but if you'd put, you know, and I started out by trying to sell units of a million dollars apiece. And it takes a lot of millions to get to 110. And it was very slow going. and then, you know, I got to know some of the guys better and they agreed to put in more.

And then I came up with the idea if you put in 5 million, you could be automatically a director on the board of this group that we were putting together. And, you know, it just kept chipping away, chipping away. and I know you're going to ask about the Lloyd Minsterer group. I think around Christmas time, or around by the end, yeah, somewhere around Christmas time, we probably only had commitments for about how many, about 25 million soft commitments. And that was made up of, I'm going to say, I'll say 15 people maybe, or 15 to 20.

But we were in a bit of a stall. And, you know, during this time I became known to the NHL, Bettman and his people. And they were trying to do what they could do to help us on and encourage people to get involved if they could. But they knew we were in a stall, and they knew that, you know, something had to happen here. Like it's either you're either going to make it work

or we have to move on. Look at other alternatives. So I remember like it was yesterday, I was introduced to Larry McKelke and his accountant, Bruce Panick, on January 5th at the Petroleum Club. And I had sort of a standard pro forma for this limited partnership to sell shares.

So I went through it with Larry and Bruce. And they were just in the process of selling their company, Lloydminster, BMW Monarch. So Larry and Bruce, they left. And, you know, as usual, you never know what the person is thinking. Pretty soon I got the feedback that Larry was going to invest, and he was going to encourage some of his other junior partners and other contacts in the oil patch they had to also get involved.

To me, that was a turning point of making this happen or not, because, you know, there was the Lloyd group themselves, but they also came, introduced us to five or six, six different oil patchers, oil field suppliers back in Edmonton. And this this, this gave us the boost we need to get closer to the, what we ended up trying to do was raise 60 million of cash and borrow the rest. I'll get into the borrowing story in a minute. But we had to chip Chip away, chip away. And we were having trouble getting across that line because we'd get 40-something, we'd add somebody else. We'd get to the low 50s, and the league was running out of patience

a little bit. So Gary Bettman, through his basketball contacts, knew all the NBA owners. And so he personally had dealt with and knew Les Alexander in Houston. And so definitely he was an interested party because he had the arena and had the basketball team. And lo and behold, there was a second group in Houston that were an opposing party to Alexander, and they kind of got in. So we really had two Houston groups, but the real serious one was Alexander. And anyway, we were finally given a deadline. We had 45 days after the writ had been dropped to get there or not.

And so then the heat was on. We really had to scramble. Some guys up their commitment a little bit. But along the way to make this work, we knew we had to borrow money from banks. So through people I knew at the time, the banking industry, they also had a willingness to help out in their own way. And back then, whether it was an investor putting money in the limited partnership or the banks, they almost looked at it.

It was such a high risk that I might lose it all. So it better be the amount of money I can afford to lose right off or do whatever. And so at one point, I was able to pull together a representative of all the major banks and the B banks, the ATB Credit Union, Canadian Western, called those B banks because of their size and the 5A banks. And the A banks sort of stepped up and said, if we each put in $10 million, and the three B banks put in 10 amongst them, or collectively, that'll give us to get you the 50 million you need. Well, as it turned out, Scotia Bank wouldn't participate because in the end they wanted to do it

all on their own, which the other banks were very happy about that, kind of let them out of their commitments and all the politics that has to go on within their own system to be able to pull this off. So that put the banking thing kind of off to the side. If we could raise the 60 million, they were prepared to put up 50 because their 50 would be first secured and they would be the safest anyway, so they didn't really see all that much risk there. But that gave them all the access to prime properties for advertising and so on. So anyway, lo and behold, you know, So we, to get to the day that you were talking about the announcement down at the convention center, we literally got our 60th check as I was walking up, or the, I got a note from one of my helpers.

A guy by the name of Todd McFarland who was in the comic business. Yeah, Spawn. Yeah, Spawn. Yeah, got a note that he would commit to a million dollars. So that gave us the 60 that we needed. and so that was that allowed us to make that announcement and move forward with the deal you know hearing the story um man a couple things a you know our home area plays a very pivotal point in it is what you're saying no question that's that's like super cool you know um we don't have i mean you get

the calgary flames but oilers for our area i think and i'm sure i'm going to have have some listeners. Give me a little flack on that because there are flames fans in town. I mean, Oilers with the success they had in the 80s, Gretzky, you know, the survival of the late 90s with obviously a lot of your work. Some of the teams you guys assembled, the cup run, and now McDavid and Dry Cytle in the group they've assembled with a little bit of luck in the drafting, it's been, you know, It's really, it really, the Oilers do have this ability now with stories like this where

they're so much bigger than Amminton, right? Like they're part of the community, the community is so much bigger than Eminton, I guess, what I'm saying. Let me talk about the fans and you're exactly right. You know, I used to run into fans every, well, the games in particular with every other jersey on. you could think of. And there's many reasons for that. Many of them had a relative or a friend that was drafted by other teams. And at Lloydminster, there was a lot of people doing their connection really to the oil patch was through Calgary. But, you know, my attitude always was,

I didn't care. You were a hockey fan first, and that's why you're doing what you're doing. and you're out there, you're buying the product. So sure, I always, I'd prefer they had another jersey on first, but I never ever felt, made them feel uncomfortable with other jerseys or saying, yeah, I'm a Calgary, Flames fan. Well, I got very close to the Flames owners too, and they were trying to survive the same way we were. So we were partners in the business in that sense.

So as long as people were out there buying the product, tickets or whatever, that was good for the business, the NHL business, not just the Writers' business. So I had a much broader view of, you know, and in respect of people that had all their biases and preferences to different teams. In the end, I just, I learned very quickly. Nothing wrong with that. Yeah.

You love the game of hockey. You want to see it survive, and you want the best players in the best league in this city. Absolutely. What was the emotions like when you know you get to sit on a stage and go, this is happening? This is for real. I mean, you just let us down the story of how many stalls you had. Betman reaching out to Houston, a deadline put on you, everything.

All the cards feel like they're maybe not stacked against you, you're put to the fire, you put to the coals for sure. What was the emotion like from the group yourself to be able to go on the stage and know that you're going to get to hear some good news? Well, there's two parts to that. One, there was dealing with our partner owners who turned out to be 38 of us in the end.

And they were in different investment sizes from $7 million down to $200,000. or whatever. But I tried to treat everybody as fairly as I could. It wasn't easy at times because they were just in the size of their participation were different. Some of them wanted to be treated that way and others didn't really care that much. So that had to be managed. And, you know, many people kind of snickered when they saw us. They said, this will never work. you've got twice as many owners as you do players on the team. How can that possibly work?

Well, what we did was we had a limited partnership from that. We picked a board of directors of 10 people. And we ran it like a public company, and there was really more accountability, in my opinion, than some of the teams with single owners who have the right to walk in to the dressing room or the general manager's office and say trade that guy or go get that guy.

We were very different. We hired people to do those jobs and we let them do those things and we didn't want our owners in any way participating in any of those kinds of decisions so it was run very much like a public company and so that was on the ownership side. That was how that worked.

With the league, obviously, you know, I got to know Gary Bettman very, very well. We spent a lot of time together. And I tell you, if it wasn't for his patience when we were one trying to do the season ticket thing in 96 and then trying to put an ownership group together in 98, if it hadn't been for his patience and his belief in the Canadian markets, this would have never happened. because there were many times we were in a stall seemingly going nowhere. And he could have just said, ah, you know, at this end going to work. And, you know, there's a lot of bigger cities around with bigger populations in television markets.

And he truly believed in the Canadian cities. Does it bother me then to see how he's been treated by fans and the like? You know, I think he's almost come to enjoy it, to be honest. But, I mean, there wasn't a building he didn't walk into booze and everything else for more than a decade, if not longer than, well, for more than a decade, for sure. It was a very funny thing. You know, he would, you know, when we were in the owner, had been into the ownership. And he would, he would come at least to every city once a year. And he'd come here and he, I'd say, Gary, where are you on set?

We can go to my suite. I got some tickets down in the end zone behind the goal. And we tried that once, and he kind of liked that. So we'd be saying they're usually a security guy, and a lot of times Bill Dealey was with him. But the camera in the building would pan around to where we were sitting. And you're right, the booze went up. And, you know, he just shrugged your shoulders.

But anyway, between periods, I said, let's just go down in the concourse and we'll just hang out there. And you wouldn't believe that people coming up and wanting to shake his hand, get a picture with him, his autograph, thank him for doing what he's doing. And, you know, whenever he came to Edmonton, and I say, where do you want to sit?

he says, I know you and I feel the same way. I want to be with our fans, so let's sit down there. And he loved that interaction between periods and he was gracious about it. And the boo thing, he said, that just goes with the job. You know, I make a lot of unpopular decisions, but that's my job. So, you know, very, very interesting guy. Yeah, well, you know, as I've, through the podcast, I've got to, you know, I've got to sit down with guys like Brian Burke and hear

his stories and and you know he once worked for him and here's some of the stories about how he operates and what kind of guy is and I'm like man that is like super respectable I think anyone could fall in line with how he operates and yet as a fan base he's got to be one of them I don't know how they all react to the other commissioners of the different leagues but he doesn't handle a trophy without getting the heckling and the booze and everything else it's almost come to the point now where it's almost like it's just part of the tradition to boo Batman when he comes out. First of all, the guy is extremely smart. He's intelligent.

And he's got a memory like a trapdoor. Like he just, if anybody ever says anything, he remembers it. And if you stumble at all, he'll remind you. And so for that, I've got a little bit of respect. But, you know, there's another story, I think about a lot. This was during the lockout year. And, you know, the fans were really upset because there was no hockey, no NHL hockey. Well, what we'd done in Edmonton, we'd brought the roadrunners here, the HL team.

So we at least had professional hockey during the lockout year. But Gary went around to different cities, to all the cities. and he met the media and whoever wanted to talk to him as much as he could about where things were as much as he could say about negotiations, which wasn't much. But anyway, we put on a Chamber of Commerce Breakfast at the Western Hotel and invited him to come and speak.

And he, it was, I think there was four or five hundred people, it was a sellout. And anyway, he was introduced and got up to speak. Everybody in that room got up and gave him a standing ovation. This got national television coverage because most people couldn't believe what they were seeing that he came to Edmonton and what the heck happened there. And I tell you, Gary also will never forget that because, coming to Edmonton to him, he knew he was with people who knew the game, wanted the game, and appreciated the work that he's doing in sort of a funny way.

And so, you know, I've had many occasions like that, but that one stands out for sure. What I wanted to ask about was, you know, when you buy the team, when you get the group of, the group of owners together, business owners together, and you purchase them, and you're very much like the Green Bay Packers. You're this group of owners instead of one or even two. And where the Oilers were at back then, you know, they were a scrappy team, and that's doing them service, right? Like, they just, they found ways to win some games, but they weren't very good.

and to go into, you know, 06 and to have your team make the Cinderella run that they did, what was the, what was that side of it like for you guys? I know as fans, I mean, you could feel that energy. You could feel, I was on the other side of the country at the time playing, and you could feel the energy. of that, you know, a gritty team assembled, just enough skill to put the puck in the net, but it was a blue-collar team with an all-star defenseman and Pronger, obviously,

and a resurgence of Rolls us in and everything else. But to have bought it, you know, almost a decade earlier, where, you know, things were struggling, to have it go to where it was, I assume there was a ton of pride in the group, but I don't know, maybe you could let us in on some of that. Well, along the way, there was a lot of bumps in the road. We, because of the way we administered and managed the ownership part of it,

we had a group that was pretty committed to not be losing money. In other words, work with the budget system. Because the only way we're going to survive long term is that it's financially healthy. So that was paramount to live within our means, just like you do your own life at home and you run your business. So that was the first thing. We also had a $50 million debt to pay down, so not only did we try not to lose any money, chipping away at that was kind of forefront as well. Along the way, prior to the cup run, we made a conscious decision to do a cash cost.

And in our agreement, shareholders agreement, if we were to do a cash call, we could issue more shares at 75 cents on par of value. So in other words, if you put in $750,000, you got a million dollars worth of shares. So anyway, in one afternoon at a meeting at the Mayfair Club, we raised over $14 million. dollars. All of that went to the debt. So, you know, going along, making a little bit of money, doing that, and then the cup run was significant in financially, because, you know, you fill your stadium up for every game as we did and all the other marketing that goes with it. That was that was really meaningful. And by the time we sold the team,

we had paid off our bank loans. So, you know, all these things were significant parts to it. So that was the off-ice side of it. In that lockout, or prior to the lockout, the negotiating part with the PA, We in Edmonton and I was kind of putting a spot where kind of front and center of doing the potential lockout for the right reasons. We had to get revenue sharing. We had to get a salary cap.

We had to do some of the very fundamental things that was going to allow everybody to be competitive in the league and have a chance to win because the league eventually would fall apart and you'd grind it back to 12 or 15 teams because they're the only ones that had the horsepower to survive while losing money.

And this goes back to Betman's belief about we have to have now coming 32 financially healthy teams if we're going to be a league and go out and sell television contracts and whatever else.

And, you know, he had a vision about that and he was right. There had been an earlier lockout for half a season. And then this one, we were just going on all the same principles of we need these things. We need revenue sharing. We need salary cap. We need predictable expenditures. We have to know what our costs are. And so, as you can imagine, I would get numbers of calls a day from media.

How's it going? What's happening? And we were very limited in what we could say from a team perspective. And one time, I crossed the line and I said a little bit more than I was supposed to. and I got fined $10,000 U.S. What did you say? You know, I can't remember. It was a little bit related to, it was either revenue sharing or salary cap.

But I didn't go overboard, but it was, but Gary was trying to get a message across, not only to me, but all the owners. But anyway, as it worked out, I came back to the board. They knew what I had said. They knew what the rules were. And the group agreed to,

pick up the tab for that, so I didn't personally have to pay it. But there were others that got, I think Pat Quinn got at one, to find $100,000 for something he said. But he was more explicit about his view of, was either the salary cap or the, yeah, sharing. So anyway, that's, you know, sort of how, but the, the league, The members or the team owners and their management would always watch media stuff from coming out of every city.

And I was always on the edge of this is what we need because, you know, and I could say it or our group could say it because we were just a collection of average Joe's. When I would go to league meetings, I'm sitting around. around the table, most of them were billionaires, multi-billionaires in some cases. And we had a bigger reason, you know, to fight for the principles of a new deal than some of those guys did, although they wanted it just as badly as we did.

Nobody likes losing money. So many, many quotes that I made got, you know, kind of around the league. And Gary, he, he, I wouldn't say he depended on me, but I think he appreciated that I was getting him from, and that's why when he came to town and got the standing ovation,

we had the fans on our side. Usually they're on the hockey player's side because they're the entertainment. But our fans were educated enough, partly ticket drive, partly because the team went broke once, that financial survival was cornerstone to the whole future of the team.

So anyway, when we had the meeting, it was following the Canada Cup, Finland, Canada, and Toronto. And we flew to New York that night to have the governor's meeting. And that's when we had the vote to shut the league down for the year. And this was in a hotel in New York. downtown New York. And the media outside was, they were just everywhere. Like there was cameras and like mics and and so just as the meeting was wrapping up, okay, the decision was made. And Gary, you know, said, as usual, I will speak to the media, but, you know, you guys

got to exit from here. So the guy that was in charge of public relations, this time. His last name was Brown. He comes over and he whispers in my ear, he says, would you, would you be, would you do something for us? He said, would you be the first guy to go out those doors and meet the media? I said, you got that kind of chocolate. I said, you got to be kidding. And he said, no, we'd, because by this time, a lot of the media recognized me as not a wealthy guy, just there, with his, this huge group of, you know, smaller, mid-sized business people. And I was fighting for all these changes for their right reasons.

And so, you know, that led to, I can't even remember who the hell the interviews were and what I said, but that was how much they kind of appreciated what we were doing in Edmonton, you know. And I guess the other smaller Canadian cities, some of that was going but we had that luxury of, we were just a bunch of, you know, hockey fans that got together, and we needed this to work, you know. So that became very well-known through the league at that time. So anyway, we, you know, and what we had also done in our group, we had made a provision financially to stay out two years if we had to. And here's the irony of this. We wanted this deal to be right or don't do it.

And as it turned out, many of the wealthier owners, they just kind of gave in with the best deal Gary could bring back at that time. Because they wanted to, they wanted to operate. And sometimes just because your billionaire status doesn't mean you don't have pressures from banks and like you've got to get cash rolling. And so this was the irony of it. We were the one, the little engine that could. We were positioned to stay out longer

if we had to not want into, of course. But anyway, so we go through the lockout year. And then that changed everything in terms of contracts were bought out, guys were free agents. And of course, deals were made. you know, Roelphson came here on a trade for a first round draft pick.

The deal was made for Paca and, and, uh, who were we just talking about? Pronger. Oh, yeah, sorry about that. No, no, no.

Too many names flying around me. And, uh, you know, we, we barely made the playoffs. Yep, stuck in.

And I remember right at the end, it was about the fifth or six last game in Phoenix. And we were one goal behind and this clock was ticking down. And we got a stoppage with two seconds left on the clock. In fact, 1.8 or some damn thing. And I said, oh my God, we lose this. game like our chances of getting the playoffs here. They just got a little weaker. Well anyway, we win the draw and back to Pronger and he fires a puck and goes in. Now, Gretzky was, Wayne was coaching the Phoenix team then and he was screaming and holler and

the guy didn't turn the clock on fast. I'm convinced to this day that you could not do that in less than two seconds. But anyway, it happened and we got into the playoffs by the skin of our teeth. And then the run started. And for everybody that was part of ownership or fans, season ticket holders, this was bringing back old times

going back to the cup years. So it was a wonderful experience. And that was probably the most fun we had. doing it. Too bad we were one period away from winning the thing but you know that's the way it works. Yeah winning winning is a fun thing to do and there was a lot of games won in that in that in that run I mean well when we won the six game four to nothing here I thought well we'll just go back there and bring the cutback sort of not knowing that this wasn't going to be easy. But, you know, their credit, they just came up big and they made it happen.

Is that the loudest you ever heard the... Absolutely. Yeah. Even in the cup years. No question. Yeah, it was... Once you have something and you lose it, it makes you appreciate it more. Yeah. That's what happened at that time. You think we're with the McDavid's of the world, the dry sidles, maybe we're going to get back there?

Well, building a winning team is not easy, and it's interesting. We've got probably two of the best players in the game, but it just shows you it's a team game, and you've got to have every part working, you've got to have goal ten, you've got to have big, tough defense. you need help from your third and fourth lines. And it's a tough, long old road to O'Hill. And, you know, credit to our guys in 06. You know, because, you know, we had Pronger and Ryan Smith. Yeah, a lot of good.

Sean Horacelli, had a lot of playoffs. A lot of good players, but we didn't have a McDavid in a dry saddle. so it shows you what a team game it is. So, yeah, it turned out good. You know, before I let you out of here, you know, you buy them, you save them, you make a cup run, and then Darryl Kateswatson into the picture. And I assume that wasn't an easy decision, regardless of the money, you know, you buy them for essentially 100 million. But, I mean, you know, the banks help.

you found a way to piece it together. And by the time you sell them, you know, it's almost double that. Money aside, I assume all the blood, sweat, and tears that went into... It's actually more than double because we really only started out with 60. Fair, fair, fair. Yes, you were exactly right. Or maybe it was easy. I don't know.

How hard of a day was it when you knew you were selling and walking away from the team? Well, that was difficult because... When Darrell Cates made the offer, you know, that, we, for the most part, we were an older group. Like, you know, there's a number of guys already at that time in there. When we put the group together, they were 70 years old. Like I count them up lately. There's 11 or 12 that aren't even here anymore. And so, you know, time moves on.

that offer was made and what really happened was about half of the guys in the group said you know what I've had enough it's time to go another half said no I think we should keep it so we

we and this was a this was troubling because you can't please everybody and of course we had a retirement amount for the shares meaning if you wanted out

this was the value the shares and we revisited that once a year and then there was a vote on boosting it up essentially because of the kate's offer and that caused more disharmony in the group so i finally made my mind up like i i can't be uh i can't do this forever and uh you know the the fact that we had uh you know that difference of opinion there was some hard feelings things there. I just saw it was time to move on. You know, and it was, it wasn't easy for me because I put my heart and soul into the thing. And, you know, but you make decisions and live with them. Well, heart and soul is exactly the right statement, Cal. I think, you know, I always say I'm

proud of the area I come from. There are special people, and there's some, um, some, amazing stories and yours is just another one that, you know, what's the favorite hockey team of the area for the most part? The Edmonton Oilers. And when they were at their worst and needed help, it was a guy and a group not only from dang near Hillman, but within the region that spearheaded it and then turned the tide. Like that to me is pretty cool. And to have that caught on tape, I don't know. That might be the high point of the podcast. I don't know.

I guess we'll see as we march. You know, today time marches on as the podcast marches on. Maybe we'll find something higher than that. But that's a really cool story. I appreciate you. Let me in here. I really appreciate you. Let me hold you here for as long as you have.

I know you have other things going on. If you'll bear with me for about two minutes, I want to ask you two final questions. I usually do the Crude Master Final 5. I'm going to shout out to Heath and Tracy McDonald for support in the podcast. but I'll cut it down to two that way we can get you out of here and on your way home. I always ask, guess, if they could do this with somebody, sit across the table and pick somebody's brain on their life, their story, some of the lessons learned, etc.

Who would you take? If I was... If you were the interviewer and you wanted to have a good interviewee. Who would I take? Oh, my God. Can I think about that one for a minute? Absolutely. Well, then I'm going to throw it out.

Well, this one shouldn't stump you, I hope. But you said you were a ticket holder from the very beginning, the WHA days of the Emmington Oilers. That means you've got to witness them across their entirety. What's your favorite night in the building? What has been one of the favorite nights you've had watching the Emmington Oilers? I would say that sixth game of the cup run against Carolina. I've never heard it louder in there.

And this to people was a dream coming true again, and they made it known how good they felt about it. And, you know, the loudest, the most noise ever, I guess, shouldn't be the thing that, you know, but certainly that's right up there. But I was at all of the four Stanley Cups that were one here, and they were great too. I mean, like you said,

nothing like winning and joy that that brings to people. And you forget all your other troubles in life. You know, and that's the great thing about sport and what hockey and other sports bring to people. Absolutely. Now, can I hold you to the fire on somebody you'd interview? Well,

Hmm God, I wish I did. I should have given it to you earlier. Yeah, because I'm, you know, I don't want to make a mistake, but, you know, there's, can I do it this way? Yeah, sure.

There's, you can do it any way you want, there's, there's so many people I've crossed paths with in my life that I hate to even single anybody out because it's from prime ministers to, you know, to sports, heroes to business giants. And they're, I just, I guess the thing about life that I will forever appreciate is the wonderful,

wonderful people have met along the way and the good friends I've made, the people I've dealt with. I mean, that's, that makes a life. And of course, I cannot omit. family. I'm lucky to have the greatest wife in the world. My kids I'm proud of. I love my grandkids and I know that most people are going to say the same thing but in my case there's a special place for them and I certainly I try to make them feel like they were every bit as much part of this as I was. Well once again truly thank you for letting me come here and and do this with you.

As you've known, as I've called you, an awful lot and blown your phone up throughout the years. I appreciate you letting me come and sit here and pick your brain and hear the story firsthand. You're welcome, and I will say from those many phone calls, over the last 13 years, I haven't been asked many or a lot of these questions at all. and I apologize for leaving something out because over a 10-year period, there was an awful lot happened, and I know that many people are interested in those stories, but hey, you never know.

We can do it again. Well, I tell you what, I say this all the time. There's no way to capture an amount of time that we just did in two hours, less than two hours. It's impossible. So I just appreciate the time you gave me and the insight you've given everyone including myself. And once again, just getting to hear the story firsthand across from you is, you know, I call you my white buffalo because I wasn't sure if we were ever going to get to do this.

And the fact we get to, I'm honored. I really appreciate once again you just let me sit across from you. You're welcome. Hey folks, thanks for joining us today. If you just stumbled on the show, please click subscribe. Then scroll to the bottom and rate and leave a review. promise, it helps. Remember, every Monday and Wednesday, we will have a new guest sitting down to share their story. The Sean Newman podcast is available for free on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, and wherever else you get your podcast fix.

Until next time.