Shaun Newman Podcast - Ep. #198 - Lawyer James Kitchen

Episode Date: September 3, 2021

James is a constitutional lawyer. We discuss: our rights are just words on paper, you think by doing what your told life will go back to normal & you have to save yourself. Let me know what you think Text me 587-217-8500

Welcome to the podcast, folks. Happy Friday. Hope everybody's having a great long weekend wherever you are at. It's the last days of summer. Everybody's, I've heard people going up to closing cabins and pulled boats and lifts. Oh, man. Well, wherever you're at, I don't know where summer went, but I hope you're having a good time enjoying with family and friends. This is an episode I recorded about a week and a half ago, so it's funny how the world just keeps speeding along.

and I just couldn't wait anymore. I was going to wait until next week, but honestly, I thought it was pertinent to get it out and try and get it in the time frame. Normally, I'm within a couple days of releasing episodes, but it's funny. I got hammering off a bunch on the weekends and stuff like that, and all of a sudden you got a little bit of a backlog.

So a bonus episode today, and it's looking like a bonus episode Saturday as well. So you might get a long weekend special here. We'll see if Friday's evening episode comes out. And if it does, I believe it will have to be released Saturday. So we'll wait and see. Regardless, I appreciate you all tuning in today wherever you're at and driving, sitting at work, the garden, harvest, whatever you're doing.

Appreciate you flicking on the podcast. And we'll get to the T-Bar-1 tale. of the tape. He completed his law degree at the University of New Brunswick, where he also obtained a Bachelor of Arts and History and Philosophy. In 2017, he was called to the bar in Alberta, where he is a civil liberties litigator, practicing in the areas of charter rights and human rights.

I'm talking about James Kitchen. So buckle up. Here we go. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Today I'm joined by Mr. James Kitchen. So first off, sir, thanks for hopping on. You're welcome. Now, you're the first lawyer I've ever had on the podcast, I must say.

So I'm interested to see how this goes. Maybe for all the listeners, though, first we could start with maybe a little bit of your background, just so they can get a feel for who exactly they're listening to. Sure. So I am a civil liberties litigator. I litigate in areas, charter rights, human rights, a few other areas, but primarily that's where I am. It's a very rare thing to do that in Canada.

There's almost no lawyers that do that, at least primarily, like I do. It's called to the bar in 2017 in Alberta. I used to work at the Just Center for Constitutional Freedoms. I started my own practice on July 1st of this year for a number of different reasons, one of which is because health freedom really matters to me a lot, both professionally and personally. And so I wanted to, I wanted to get into that. I saw an opportunity to fill people's needs and to do what I,

when I'm really passionate about doing. So that's, that's where I'm at now. You know, I went to the University of Nebraska, New Brunswick, got my law degree there. I got a wife and two kids I really care about. It's part of the reason why I fight for freedom. I want them to be free, not just me and not just my clients. So, you know, if anybody gets to know me, they know, you know, I'm pretty, I wear everything on my sleeve.

I answer questions candidly, sometimes too candidly. So people tend to like that because most lawyers don't do that. I'm a volunteer with lawyers for truth based in Alberta, if anybody has heard of lawyers for truth. So as part of that, I recently sued the provincial court and court of Queens bench in Alberta because of their mandatory mask directive, which is rather unusual for lawyers to sue courts. Usually there's nothing to sue about. And if there is, most lawyers are too scared to do so. So that's a pretty unique thing about me.

And the kind of stuff I do is that's that's the kind of litigation I get to get into. So that should be enough to go on. Well, I guess sitting here over the last, I don't know, 18 months, does it matter anymore? It feels like it's been 10 years. But it also feels like it's this real small snapshot of time. It's a very strange thing we've been going through. as the vaccine gets rolled out and everything happens there, okay, whatever, we're going to hit this 70% number, we're going to hit 60% number, we're going to hit whatever number they say. And now as we've pushed through that, now we've got into this really weird world of if you're not vaccinated, they're strongly considering or I don't know, maybe they've already pushed it through, this vaccine passport.

I just read today that BC is going to do it. And they're, they don't know everything. We all know about Quebec or I think we all know about Quebec. They've said September 1st. And I, I just, I guess the reason I was interested to have you on, James,

is I go, what the hell are my actual rights here? Like, like I just, I don't get it. I sit here. I go, I'm a healthy guy.

I'm abiding by most of the things they put forward. and and then to top it off, I would say most people have been vaccinated when, well, I'll get the two shots or I'll get the one shot, whatever it is. I'll get the mixed shot because they ran out or they got AstraZeneca and that gets canceled. So they get the shots.

So there's people on both sides of this because now they're talking about booster shots and everything else. And I feel like most people are like, okay, so I'm doing what you asked. And now we're going to put this thing in place so that, you know, you can't go to a bar, a restaurant, a gym.

The list goes on unless you have this card with, I don't even know. And so I just come back, maybe the simplest question asked, is as a human being sitting in Canada, the country we both grown up in, what are our actual rights? Well, that's a long answer. But to put it quickly and bluntly, your rights are only what you, are willing to fight about to keep. Because ultimately, our rights are just words on paper

unless they actually change the behavior of people in our society. I got the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms behind the mayor in the wall. And it's words on paper. They only mean something if they're actually enforced and if judges who get to, ultimately, its judges, unfortunately, who get to interpret them, get to decide how big, how small they are,

when they apply, when they don't, what infringes them, what doesn't, what infringement of them is justified, what isn't. So ultimately, if they're going to mean anything more than words on paper, then they have to be not defined a way in the courts, and they have to be actually upheld and enforced on the ground. And if that doesn't happen, then you don't have any rights. So where we are now, we're in a position where, you know, a lot of my clients, people are talked to be like, it's as if I don't have any rights. Well, yeah, practically speaking, it is. Because right now, all these rights on paper don't really mean anything. You know, I can enforce them. I understand them well, better than most. And so I can, I can attempt to enforce them. But what's going to happen

if everybody just says, no, you can go pound sand. Well, then we're left having to litigate. And in the meanwhile, people are kicked out of school, lose their job, right, potentially excluded from all the things that they want to do that makes their life worth living, potentially, like, even not able to survive properly because they don't have an income and they can't access a store, et cetera. In the meantime, they're suffering, enormous suffering. And we're supposed to litigate. Well, that's what are we going to do? That's like six, 12, 18 months. People don't have time to wait for that. Who's going to go up with the money for that? And then, of course, we're not likely to win, right?

I mean, I've been litigating this and the other few constitutional lawyers in the country have been litigating this for 18 months. And we just lose. We lose. We lose. We lose. And I don't highly expect that to change. I mean, I hope it will change.

It can change. I don't expect it to change. That is an unsurprising outcome in light of the fact that the vast majority of judges in Canada don't highly regard individual liberties. They're very mainstream in their thinking. They're very deferential to government. They're generally left-wing and socialist in their mindset. So they think society is better when government is powerful and is unchecked by individual liberties.

They don't think society is better when individual liberties, you know, are take priority and limit government. So these decisions are not really surprising, at least for somebody like me. For those who didn't know any better and actually expected the courts, you know, did a really good job of withholding our rights. then they're a little bit shocked and dismayed. And I mean, I'm dismayed, but certainly not shocked. So, you know, I can get into all your rights. I can take the next 15 minutes and tell you all your rights. The trouble is that is that going to actually mean anything?

And these are the conversations I have with my clients. I tell them, right, you know, look, before you pay me, yes, I can assert your rights. And we may get somewhere. But this is a really good chance. We won't because right now your rights only mean something in the context of the rule of law. Okay, our country used to be one of the rule of law. It was it was faltering prior to COVID, but now it's now it's really taken a nosedive. And so we're in a state of what I call quasi lawlessness.

And rights mean nothing if you don't have the rule of law. And so because the rule of law is so shaky right now, it's so weak, we're in a state where it's almost like might is right. You know, the employer has has the power over you. because you're vulnerable because you need, you need that employment income. The university has power over you because you're a student and you need your education, et cetera, et cetera,

right, and go on and on and on. You know, maybe your vulnerability is, is your desire to travel. So they tap into that. And this is, this is apparently why a lot of people are getting this thing.

Most people obviously don't believe the shot is actually effective or needed. But, but, but, you know, they want to travel and I don't really give a damn about, you know, all the higher principles and all the damage you could do to our freedom.

They just want to travel. So give me the stupid shot. I want to travel. And they're naive enough and foolish and childish enough to think that that's actually that's going to happen, right? And it goes back to what you said earlier. People are like, hey, I'm doing what I'm told. That's actually the problem is that you think by doing what you're told,

we're going to get out of this. And you're going to get your freedoms back. And you're going to be able to live life. And the government's going to leave you along. I mean, you have to be pretty ignorant of history to actually really believe that. So that's part of the problem. But to hop in there for a second, that's what people think, James. James, listen.

They haven't read a history book. They haven't talked to me. Yeah, of course they think that. This is the problem, right? We don't think. Well, I've read history books. I've read the stories. I just, maybe I'm gullible to think it can't happen again.

We're sitting here in Canada. We're sitting in Canada. You are gullible. I guess so. Because I sat there, you can hop in a time. I sat there in January going, it's like a couple more weeks, then things are going to start to open up. Like I can feel it, right?

Like I'm just sitting there and I've talked myself through the first six months. And even though it made zero cents, I'm like, in a couple months, a couple weeks, it's going to start to open up. And then it just kept going and going. I just got an email from my employer saying, we're stay at home until October now. And I'm like, like, when does this end? Like, maybe it doesn't. It doesn't end. They don't want it to end.

And, okay, and I don't mean that in the conspiracy sense, okay? Sure. Is there some big conspiracy going on? Probably. Okay. I mean that in the sense of human nature. Okay. So, and this is part of the reason why this is going on. There isn't some, you know, this, whatever conspiracy may be going on isn't like controlling everybody. And it's not like every little, you know, government bureaucrat is in on it. It's not like that. The trouble is that human, nature is such that when you when you get power and control it's like a drug you become addicted it's not like you wanted the heroin or the cocaine but once you started to you know let's say you didn't but once you started to take it it is damn hard to get off of and and and you may have wonderful intentions of getting off it i mean don't even don't even need to be that extreme it could just be alcohol and tobacco or whatever else whatever else in our life we're like yeah i know i shouldn't be into this but i can't help it power and control over other people's lives Is it drug? It has that psychological impact. Okay. So once you get it, even if you had good intentions,

you can't let it go. Unless you're some kind of special person with some extreme willpower, you can't let it go willingly. If someone makes you let it go, you might let it go without getting into a serious violent fight. But if no one's really making you let it go, you're not going to let it go. Okay. So you've got all these, you got all these well-intentioned, well-meaning people now with power that they never deserved, that they never could have got otherwise, that they can't handle because they're just not quite frankly they weren't the kind of important people that can handle that kind of power it was given to them and they can't let it go now and we know this we know this from from from from not just hundreds of years of history but thousands right we go back

to these things of power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely we know that in our soul if we're honest with ourselves we know that our entire western democratic system is based on that acknowledgement that power corrupts and that we have to make sure that we're that no one person or body gets too much of it because if we do, we are done. The whole division of powers is not simply some boring, you know, stuffy thing that we did in grade 11 social studies class. It is the foundation of the way we live without ending up in tyranny. Okay.

We don't, we have way too much power coalesced around, around people that shouldn't never have had it and now can't let it go and it's corrupted them. and of course it did because they're human. It would corrupt me. Okay. For those of you who are Nerd of the Rings or Word of the Rings fans and you're nerds about it, why did Gandalf refuse the ring? Even if we probably can even if you've been on a nerd, you watch the movie.

Why did he refuse the ring? Because he knew he couldn't handle the power. Because it's exciting. Yeah, because he's not so stupid as to think that he can handle the power. Yeah. That's what this is. You do not give that kind of power to some unelected medical bureaucrat. go go simpler. Bilbo Baggins was just a simple guy and he couldn't let it go. I get the Lord of the Rings

reference. That's all I'm saying. Yeah. And he's one of the most uncorruptible people imaginable. That's right. Right. I like to think I'm a pretty uncorruptible guy. Right. I don't want power. I'm a libertarian. I want people to be free. I want nothing to do with controlling their lives. I got way better things to do. But still, I would I would deny that power if it was if it was given to me because I know better. I know better. This is the thing, right? This is why people like me in the beginning were like, you can't do this. You cannot give them two weeks to flatten the curb because it'll be 20 years to flatten your liberties. And not necessarily because there's some big conspiracy.

Maybe there is, maybe there isn't. But because of the very base unavoidable fact that give an inch, take a mile. And if you give them this, even if they had good intentions at the beginning, let's assume they're not on any kind of conspiracy. And they have great intentions in the beginning. It doesn't matter. Good intentions will fail. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

It won't work. As soon as you give this to them, you won't get it back without all kinds of blood, toil, and sweat. Well, maybe one of the first thing I wrote down that you had from Saturday night when I sat and listened is that we got too many people

who won't speak their mind. It really resonated with me because I remember having Roger Hodginson on. And my listeners, half of them, part of the French, fucking hated them, right? He is fire brimstone comes at you.

Frick, he had me. I was against the wall like dodging. You know, I'm like, holy man, why are you? I'm just, you know, like, and half the people loved it because it is a good slap in the face of like, listen, we need to wake up. And hearing you say it and hearing Roger say it, I'm just like, you know, I've been, I've been sitting doing this podcast now for a little over two and a half years. So you can kind of get a feel that for the first year,

now this was around, and then the second year, all this around. I'm just, no, it's going to get better. It's going to get better. It's not getting better. Like, here we walk into fall again, and now the vaccine passport's coming and everything else. And I'm telling you, I'm closing in on 200 episodes.

And for about 175 of those, I didn't worry about this. I just kind of left it to the experts, kind of left it to the experts. And then, you know, left it to mainstream media. And I didn't use to call it mainstream media. I just left it to, you know, like the professionals, right? And here we sit, James, and we're rolling into vaccine passports. We got an election where our prime minister says, if he's elected,

there will be consequences to those who do not get vaccinated. When I've had doctors on this show saying, listen, the vaccine, it's got some problems, not even just problems with adverse effects. like it's waning. It's not going to last. They're seeing what's going on in Israel and other countries and they're going like this. And our our leader's saying if you don't get it, there will be consequences and everything else. So you're saying of we need more people to speak up is honestly starting to make a whole hell of a lot of sense. Well, I'm glad to hear that. I hope it's not too little too late. I said all this back in March 2020, but nobody to listen back then. I was a conspiracy theorist. Do you remember, by the way, when people like me used to say a year ago, or so, you know, this is all going to end in vaccine passports. And all the politicians said, no, your conspiracy theory should fear my, we never do that. Do you remember that? I do remember that. That's, yeah. Well, if that's not enough to make you think that you need, you need to get up and start doing something now before it's too late, then I don't know what will, right? I mean, do you really

think the Jews thought they were going to end up in cattle cars in four years when they were told to put on the star? Of course not. Right. Would they put it on if they knew that? Of course not. Right? But that's just it. They did that and they died and we need to learn from it so that we don't do the same thing again. Because you know what? That's the thing about history. It's never going to look the same. It is the same.

It always repeats itself, but it never looks the same. So it's not going to be that easy. You can't be stupid about it. You're going to have to actually really think. Stop letting everybody else do you think for you and think, okay, wait a minute. I know this looks totally different. And I know they're all calling me names about thinking about it. Wait a minute.

This actually makes sense because this is moving on the same track that that's. did. You know, they went along, they complied, hoping it would go away, hoping it would get better, because you know what, it's not that big of a deal to put on the star. It's not that big of a deal to put on the mask, but where does it end? It ends in the murder of human beings. I'm not saying this because I like drama. I don't. I'm saying this because that's a damn historical fact. Okay. 100 million people were murdered in the 20th century by big government who had some grand utopia that they wanted to achieve. And all those people were just in the way. right and who's in the way right now the unvaccinated what's the utopia this perfect world of

perfect safety that's so stupidly unattainable but we're going to force our way there and all of you damn unvaccinated liberty people are standing in the way get out of the way or we're going of course that's where it's going it's not like that's some weird you know scary voodoo thing it's like no that's history that's how history repeats itself so let's get off our ass start thinking and start talking about it because it's not going to end until we do well the courts aren't going to see you the few lawyers like me aren't going to save you right you're going to have to save yourself i think that's i think that's it in a nutshell right there though james is nobody's been talking about it right we've been i shouldn't say that we've all been talking about it right we've all

been talking about this for you know like i just got to go to conversations with my wife and good friends i'm tired of talking about it how many times you hear that i'm tired of talking about this i'm like, yeah, I understand. But what are we supposed to do here? We got to talk about it. And actually, you know, I'll see this time and time again. I didn't want to talk about it on here. I wanted to talk about hockey and fun things.

And I'm a history guy. I want to talk to the World War II vet and hear the stories that give you your hairs, you know, make the hairs in your arms raise, right? That's what I wanted. I fought this for so long. I sat and had, I'm in a book club. And Ken Rutherford, who's running. and for the Maverick party. He actually spoke before you. I'll take you back to we're sitting

and this is either December or January. I cannot remember. Now it had to been before Christmas. Okay, so it was December. We have an argument about the Guleg archipelago, right? Alexander Soljean you want to talk about a guy who went through some things. Russia, you're talking about 100 million in the 20th century. While Russia was a nice part of that, let's just get that right there. So me and him have it out over this. I'm saying it ain't. going there. He's saying if we don't start doing something, it is going there, right? And so then we read the stupid book, and I shouldn't say stupid book, because it's, it's a like a glimpse into one of the ways you mention it doesn't happen the same way. It's a glimpse into how it can happen, right? A bunch of

good people sat around and did nothing because it's not, they're not coming after me, they're not going out to him. And pretty soon, anyone who speaks out about anything, And there it is. And now I'm watching Chernobyl. And I'm just like, this is hurting my, this is hurting my head. Like, we have to start talking about it. People need to start talking about it. The more do they control the narrative of what's going on. It's great that people are dying from COVID. Okay, fine. There is so much else going on here. And I'm starting to feel like tomorrow, the day after, whenever it comes, that they say, you need the vaccine in order to work here. And I say no, that it's my right. I don't know if that's true anymore.

And what you're saying is, is you can't save me, which means it goes back to what you said before that. We got to save ourselves, which means we got to talk about this more and more and it ain't going away. Actually, it should be at the top of everyone's tongue of what they want to talk about and they should be empowered to talk about it and to do things about it. Well, and one of the ways you save yourself is by taking legal action and hiring lawyers and pushing back legally. That's one of the ways, right? But that cannot be it. You have to do it every other way. You have to do it at the community level of people just just just just bending together and saying, no, you have to do it at the political level, right?

You have to take over the school boards, take over the municipal councils, right? Start running in the federal municipal election so that you can make, you can make liberty actually an issue that people start talking about as an electoral issue. That's what you have to do, right? And if you don't do that, we're done. And, you know, maybe it's, maybe it's, yeah, it's talking about it at the Thanksgiving dinner table this year. Whatever it is, it's, it can't just be legal action. It should include that, but it can't be just that. And it has to be people taking the initiative, thinking for themselves, and not just sitting back and saying, some activist will do this.

Some lawyer will do this. Some doctor will do this. You know, Kitchen and Hodgkin said, they'll take care of us. No, we're not. We're not going to be able to, we're not going to save you. Right. We maybe, maybe we can help save you if you help save yourself. We all, we all get on with this thing.

But no, you can't just leave it to those people. Well, dang, because I was hoping I could just leave it to. to you and you'd go clean this all up and I could just go hit my 18 and and have a couple road pops and carry on with life. You're telling me that's not the case. No, I'm telling you, I can help you. I'm going to fight tooth and nail. You know, I'll fight my way to the gulag on this thing. But I mean, that's that's exactly what I'll do. Nobody else joins me. You know, one other thing I used to say, you know, I used to the guleg, you know, obviously the reference to the to the you know the archipelago of gulags through russia um the holocaust i used to

really uh fight those on the podcast like be like it is it isn't that bad we're going too extreme but it can seriously get that bad if we don't and and i and i'll say this again because i just literally said this on the podcast i did yesterday i really hope i'm wrong i really do but the longer this goes where we don't get off this train track of like full steam ahead, segregate the population, it's okay, it's not that big a deal. We're going to just like, I feel like this can go some very, very bad places that none of us want. None of us are bad people, right? Like you mentioned off the thought it isn't this giant conspiracy.

I actually agree wholeheart about that. I don't think there's, at least in the beginning, there isn't like 20 people just sitting there, 100 people just sitting there. You know what? Let's get those guys, right? It's just it keeps snowballing and nobody, we just keep building the snowball and letting it roll instead of just like stop. We don't need to do this anymore. We can stop. It's okay. Yeah. Yeah. It's got some momentum. Yeah. I know. I know. It's, what can. Here's a question for you. That is something that you're probably working on actively. You know, in the last month, you got. This group of the population, 20 and under, who if anyone can go and look at it, just go look at

like all the statistics. They are so not even an issue when it comes to COVID. It's not even funny. But we'll leave the jokes for later. They're now being, you know, university, supposed to be like one of the funnest times in your life. College sports. It's supposed to be.

Listen, I'm a college athlete. I got to play that. I literally just talked to a dad. yesterday and his kids, they got to make the decision. Are they playing hockey? I'm getting vaccinated because they've been told if they're not vaccinated. Just stay home, right? University, right? What can they do? Well, okay, if they want to fight it legally, what they can do is pull some levers, right? You can say, okay, look, I can't. I have something that's under the human rights code that precludes me from doing that, right? So if it's somebody with a legitimate physical disability,

like, let's say they got a heart condition, neurological condition, whatever, right? I mean, there's lots of different things that are relevant for this. You know, everything is, right? Like I said before, you got toenail fungus. That's, you know, that's not, that does not connect it to the vaccine. But we know the vaccine causes neurological issues. We know it definitely has cardiovascular connections. So, you know, conspiracy, crap aside and putting aside the crap of everybody calling a conspiracy, there are legitimate scientific issues with cardiovascular, right? I mean, if you've got a heart condition, you take this thing,

yeah, there is a legitimate chance you're going to die of a stroke or heart attack or clogged arteries or whatever. That's just whether people like it or not, that's a fact, right? That's a known risk. There's all the unknown risks, but that's a known risk, right? So, yeah, if you've got a physical disability, you can get a doctor who's actually courageous enough to write you a note, boom, there you go. You say, I can't take this. I got a physical disability that puts me at risk of it. I can't take it. You need to accommodate

me by not taking it, right? Maybe you go the religious route. If you're a Christian or some other, I don't know if there's a positive to any other religions. I haven't talked to any non-Christians who are religiously opposed to the vaccine, but I'm sure they're out there. I just haven't talked to them. But if you're religiously opposed to mandatory vaccines, like the concept of it, or maybe you're just a religiously opposed to putting, you know, unknown foreign experimental material into your body because your body's at the temple of God kind of thing. Maybe that's your thing. Maybe it's both things, whatever. If you got religious objections, you say, no, look, I can't take this because of my religion. Religion's protection of the Human Rights Act. You have to accommodate me. And what that means in this scenario is you don't discriminate against me or treat me equally or exclude me because I can't take it because of my religious beliefs. So if it's a hockey player, that means I'm able to play hockey. You can't exclude me. you can't make me jump through a thousand different hoops that nobody else has to like i'm not wearing a mask in the locker room and i'm not getting tested every day they don't have to i shouldn't have to right and you know i don't know if that's going to win right i mean that's that's that's

that's a good legal argument that's that is the law what i just said is that going to win i don't know right i mean i mean um that really depends on the decision makers what are the courts in the human rights tribunal is going to do with that right are they going to drink all the cold or are they going to actually look at the facts and evidence and follow the law? That's, that's, that's the question. That's what I tell my clients, right? You know, in an irrational world, the response would be, okay, that's fine. You have a reason under the human rights code. You don't have to take it. But what's going to happen is they're going to say, yeah, but you're going to kill everybody with COVID because you're unvaccinated, which has got all kinds of problems.

But for me, the biggest problem for these guys is, okay, and I'm sure you've talked about this, But okay, hold on. Does the vaccine work? Does it work? You're mandating it because you think it works, right? You're saying this is how we get out of the pandemic because it works. If it works, what threat does an unvaccinated person pose to a vaccinated person? And I'm not talking within the supposed to 14 days. They've been vaccinated. They're supposed to be, you know, all set after 14 days. What the hell are you so damn worried about? If this is about safety, which it's not anyways, we know it's about politics. But if this is really about safety, Do you really not about politics? Then answer that question first. What the health threat do they pose? How come we don't talk about herd immunity anymore? We talked about that back when we were trying to get everybody to do it voluntarily. They did that.

We got our 70, 80, 90 percent voluntarily. Well, is that not herd immunity? Like, that's just, it's so asinine, right? Because that right there is, it should be the end of the debate. You know, putting aside natural immunity and how widespread that is, putting aside the fact that COVID is no threat to anybody under retirement age in which they're extremely fat or sick, putting aside the fact that, you know, asymptomatic transmission is almost non-existent, which by the way, asymptomatic just means healthy, okay, putting aside the fact

that healthy people don't transmit it, right, that healthy people under the age of retirement have no threat from it, putting aside the fact that they're probably already naturally immune, even if they're one of the few that hasn't gotten the vaccine, and if they haven't gotten it, then that's okay. They've decided that they want to take the risk of COVID over the risk of the vaccine. They should be allowed to do that in a free and equal society. So add all that up. And even if you put that aside, you have to answer the question.

What the hell is up with your vaccine? If it doesn't protect the person who took it from supposedly getting it from an unvaccinated person, then what the hell was the point, right? That right there. And that's what I mean. If the law was functioning. If the law functioned, that right there, that would be done, right? anybody who wasn't fully accommodated would have a claim that would stand up. Anybody who was terminated

would have a claim that would stand up. So that's why I'd like to say at the end of this, yeah, we're going to win this. I can't say that because I know better. And I get annoyed with the lawyers just say, yeah, we're going to win this. The law's on our side. Sure, the law was on our side or should be on our side or would be on our side, but we don't live in a world anymore where the rule of law prevails. We just don't. We might get that world back if we're really lucky. but if we don't, which I expect we won't, then that's not going to matter that the law is on our side. It's not going to matter. They're going to get away with it anyways. And this is why we're, like, I've been saying now for 18 months, because I'm one of those guys since March, you know, don't give it to them. Don't give it to them.

Stop giving it. And after we give it, stop giving it to them. Stop giving it to them. And I've been saying for 18 months, we are going to reach a point of no return. We are going to reach a point at which no matter what you do, you cannot get your liberty back. I don't know when that point it is. We're really damn close to it. And, you know, we haven't hit it yet.

I know that. But I know we're really, really close. We are closer now than we were a year ago when I was saying, we're going to reach that point. You can't keep giving it to them. We're getting really, really close. Because this is where I knew this was going last March. We're going to go through all this crap,

and it's going to end, at the point it's going to end, with a mandatory vaccine and segregating and excluding those who won't take it. That's how it's going to end. And then from there, it gets really dark. And I don't know where it goes from there, but that's, that's,

that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, 1950s, 1940s,

1950s, all over again. That's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's when we get there.

So this, I think this, we're almost at the point of no return. I don't know what to say to that. I look for a simple answer for, for college kids and you've brought me back to a place that is very uncomfortable. And, yeah,

I know that's the point. I, I understand that. That's the point, right? What unnerves me, James, is that it's funny. You can feel out the population, right? Like, just take your inner circle of friends, and I know we have different inner circles,

and I certainly deal with different groups. And before the vaccine came, no, no, no, let's rewind it. Let's go back to last May. I was sitting at work and we're in for company-wide, you know, talk about COVID. And we all thought we're going back to work. Like, everybody is going to be full back. We're going to be transitioning because everybody, you know, like, I think everybody, you know, when it first happened, if this was going to wipe out 50% of the population, taking precautions made sense.

And then May came, and I remember sitting there watching, and they said we weren't going back until there was a vaccine. That was in May. Funny how they said that in May. They didn't say it in March. Notice that they didn't say it in March, because in March, you might not have fell for that. I probably would- Boiling the frog. They know how to boil the frog, right?

But this is-I'm not talking this May. I'm talking last-me. You're talking last May. I know. But notice that they did. They didn't say that in March. But it didn't say, yeah, we're going to lock down. We get a vaccine.

They said, we're going to lock down for two weeks. Right. Stupid enough to believe it. So then, so then all of us stare around. You can hear the people on the call going like that makes zero sense. This makes zero sense. Yeah. And then you keep going, you know, and then we, and then it goes from this to lockdowns.

And it just, it just keeps going. And all I'm getting at is if you pull people in your circle right now, and people can do this, right? How you feel? Oh, yeah, good. We're having a great summer. It's been a great summer. Great summer.

Yeah, yeah. You know, we better get her travel. You mark my words. Somebody will say this. Yeah, better get her traveling because you know another lockdown's coming. It's like, no. No. Get that out of your head right now.

Because if that comes, we all need to stand up. Like immediate. Because we can't, like, you can't, we can't just live for the next 50 years where every flu season comes. and we all locked down and we don't allow kids to go do anything anymore. We don't allow people to interact anymore. That's how we're going to live life. And you can hear those conversations going on right now. That's what unnerves me probably the most is that, you know, I'm like, you just need

to relax a little bit. I'm like, listen, I'm controlled, relaxed right now, all right? Like I'm trying to be. But when people keep saying, you know, we better get her. traveling because you know they're going to lock us down again it's like well we have the power we just got to we just got to stand up stand up and and and make a movement because politicians if they don't have the control the numbers on their side it all goes away it all goes away does it not isn't that the way out of this potentially potentially the trouble is there's so many brainwashed

people they've been so brainwashed for so long they don't even realize it anymore right that's why that's why that's why i said you know because it It doesn't take that long. Even in May, there was a lot that were already sucked right in, and they're more sucked in now. I'll tell you. But that's why if they had been honest and they had to say what the true intentions were, assuming they had those intentions, maybe they did, like I said before, maybe they just took the power and they got they got drunk on it and they couldn't stop. So now they turned it into the vaccine thing. But if they hadn't really said that last March, you didn't have any brainwashing yet. And there would have been more people that were like, whoa, not. No, no, I'm not going there. I'm not going to give you, I'm not going to give you the next 19 months of my life to get a vaccine. And then be told that if I don't take it, my life is over. Everything I know about it. No, I'm not doing that.

Right. But sure, yeah, I'll give you two weeks. Yeah, go ahead. Right. And that's, that's it right there. That's the whole crux of the problem with our thinking. And this is why Canadians are like, what the hell's what? But those crazy ass red American people are like, you know, toe into their sphere of liberty.

And they light their hair on fire. Well, that's because they're not as stupid as you who are accusing them of being a redneck, right? Because they get it. They know. They understand where it goes. You have to, people have to understand. Tyranny is insatiable. You cannot satisfy it. Could Czechoslovakia satisfy Hitler? Could Chamberlain satisfy Hitler?

And that's not because he's Hitler. Okay, yeah, Hitler was a particularly evil person. But you know what? He's got the same human nature as all the rest of us. Okay. And it's not him. It's his human nature in the reality of the world that you cannot satisfy tyranny. It is insatiable.

It will run amok until it eats itself to death. You cannot satisfy, no matter what you do, for all those people who are still delusional enough to think, but if I just give them more of my liberty, it will stop. No, it won't. I mean, everything that's happened is entirely predictable. You don't have to be some guru, right? You don't have to necessarily be a constitutional lawyer with a lot of historical knowledge, like I am. It's, it's, that's, that's just the world. That's how it works. That's how human nature is.

You cannot satisfy someone's unlimited desire for control and power, and their desire for control and power is unlimited, right? J.R. Tolkien, he knew this. That's why it's in his stories, you know, and that's why part of the reason why we like his stories, because he actually admits it and talks about it, right? We like the stories that are honest about what our, what our nature really is, the good and the bad, right? And that's, we're in this grand story of a denial of some of the bad parts of human nature. And because of that, because of that psychological denial, we're just, we're just letting it go on, hoping like children that it's just going to end itself, right? And I know this is really philosophical. And you heard me talk last night. And I don't like to get so philosophical because I know it goes over people's heads, but that's the problem.

is that we don't get philosophical so that we can't see. People ask me, why are the courts ruling this way? You know, no, the answer is not because Trudeau's, you know, given them bills under the table. That's, that's the simple answer that's, that's inactored. That's not the case. Who knows? Maybe it is.

I highly doubt it. I don't think so. I have no evidence of that. And honestly, I don't think those people are like that. I think the people on the bench, 99% of them are good, decent people just like the rest of us, but they think differently. Their view of a good world is not the view of a good world of people who value liberty, right? The view of a good world for the Soviets was a workers' paradise. And we don't care. Whatever means it is to achieve it, we don't care how bloody it is, we'll achieve it.

The view of the Nazis was a good world is a racially pure world. We don't care about the bloody trail we create to get there, right? The view of Mao's world is like a China that is what he wants it to be that's industrious and does all these things and competes with the West. And I don't care how many Chinese starved to death for me to get there. And it's the same damn thing here. My perfect world, my good world, my better world is one where the state is all powerful and public health is all powerful and we achieve this utopia of safety. And I don't care about all the bloody trail of civil liberties and unvaccinated people to have their lives ruined for us to get there, right? Because in their mind, that's good. They actually view that as good. They're not bad people in the sense that they like relish

evil for itself. You know, they're not maleficent. They don't, they don't want to just do evil for the sake of it. They want to do good. And that's, that's what they think is good. See, you and I, if I can speak for you, we don't see the world that way. And probably most people listening don't see the world that way. They see the world as a better place when people are free and equal and they're not under the oppressive hand of a state because they've made an unpopular decision. You and I know that's a better world, but that's that that in and of itself, that knowledge is a belief system. And these people don't believe that. And that's, and see, but if we had a thought about that, if I had actually taken that philosophy class last March,

you would have said, they don't think the world is better when I'm free. They think the world is better when they're in control. So if what they're asking for is going to make me less free and them more in control, then through their, through their good intentions to make a better world, they will do evil to me because I disagree with them. And if we had to just recognize these things, we wouldn't have fallen for all this stuff. And so I know, how does that help us get out of it? I would say this, you can't, well, isn't it like the AA thing

where you can't fix a problem until you recognize it until you admit that there is one? Let's start there. Let's recognize the problem. Let's start thinking about it, admit that there is one. we can only really actually be motivated to take some some crazy risks and actually take some action if we've really thought about it. What do I believe in why? Why do I believe this is wrong? Because if I truly do believe it's wrong, then I'm motivated to take some risks. I'm motivated

to lose my income, lose my job, lose my reputation and actually fight about this because I truly believe this is wrong, right? That's what sustains all these, all these martyrs through all the age, Christian and not Christian. What caused them to actually do that. It's what they believe. Nothing else can motivate a person to go and die like that. Either because they love some person that they're willing to die for or they believe in something so strongly they're willing to die for it. And I would say, you know, you need to have both of those. Love the people that are going to get harmed by this and believe in freedom and believe that there's something very wrong here. And then you actually might motivate it to take the

sacrifices you're going to have to take. Because that's the thing. We've waited so long now to do something about it. And the only way to get out of it is to make some serious sacrifices. like giving up your job, giving up your influence, giving up your importance, and radically changing your lifestyle because you say, you know what, my integrity and my beliefs are worth giving up all these material things that are going to burn someday anyways. I'm going to stand on something that's actually worth it. I read today, and I don't know if it's true or not, so take it with a grain of salt, is that there are over a million people in Alberta specifically that are unvaccinated. That means 25% of the population, roughly. Yeah, that's probably about right. But I've also heard, whether it's through the podcast or you talking or others talking, that the unvaccinated, because nobody's talking about it, feel like they're left on islands.

And it's actually how more people I found have gotten the jabber of continued on. And once again, I, I've got. don't care about your medical choice at this point. I don't care about that. I'm falling in line with what you've talked about. Is like our liberties and like our freedom? Like I got censored for having Roger Hodgkinson on who's a doctor who, you know, love or hate the guy. He's got a lifetime in the medical field.

I feel like he'd be okay to speak on it. No matter how he speaks, we live in a free society. But I got pulled for that. I'm like, okay. So this is starting to get weird, right? Like, we can sit and hear and act like I'm the biggest thing in all of Canada, but I know that isn't true. It's just a small voice or a large voice, whatever we want to call it. But one of the things is, is when you do the numbers and understand how many people out there are so questioning of what's going on, I think we do have time.

I think if more people going back to what you said were disagreeable essentially and didn't go along with it and stood up and spoke, you'd realize how many of us are sitting around. And on top of that, I got tons of friends who have the vaccine and they don't agree with it. So not only are the 25%, but there is a healthy part of this population. I can't speak for the world because the entire world is going through this right now. I can speak for right around us. There is a healthy chunk of our population that doesn't want what's coming down. We just got to stand up and be like, listen. So maybe I'm too positive on the matter because when I listen to you, I hear it.

Like I said eight months ago, I would have fought you a little bit on it. But right now I'm like, no, man, like we keep going down this road. Like it's coming. It's coming here. They're talking about Delta. They're talking about, you know, alpha and beta and whatever other variant they want. It's great. It's going to be Omega eventually. That's right. And I just go, I look at it and I think, but there is a population here.

We just, you know, we can't hop on CBC and hear this. We just can't. And so you're left to follow the extremists, right? There's some, you know, there's some guys out there who have a big following, but they're extreme. And it's even for a guy like me who enjoys having this conversation. and everything else. It took Roger Hodkinson, who is extreme. Like, I don't agree with everything he said. And I think that's what a lot of my viewers said. And I think that's what a lot of people would say. Hell, they'd probably even say, I don't even like how he said it. But damn it, if it ain't for him and the swift kick in the ass we all probably need,

then it doesn't happen. And so right now the extremists have the attention. Well, that's easy to attack. That's easy for the other side to be like, look at these guys, right? We've seen the news media sources go to the rallies and pick out the one extreme. guy and interview him and not the other like this is going to take not only those people but the rest of society to push this thing along yeah yeah yeah yeah i'll give you just one example of of the mainstream media thing maybe your listeners don't need any convincing but um so i'm i'm

one of the few lawyers in in alberta that you know didn't wear a mask ever in court ever um i uh i i I was able to obtain a medical exemption. I do, I do have some reasons for why I don't wear a mask. It's not really because I'm just, you know, pain in the ass. So I have an exemption. And when I was, I was involved with Pastor Coats trial in early May. If anybody knows about Pastor Coates is the master grace. Gerts was locked up.

He was arrested, et cetera. So I was wearing his lawyers. It was involved in the trial. Big hoopla at the beginning of the trial because I wasn't wearing a mask. And, you know, all the opposing counsel, the crown prosecutor was a, upset and all of the guards, the sheriffs were really concerned and they didn't know what to do with me. And they didn't really believe me that I had an exemption. So the judge got involved. And I said, look, I have an exemption. I could show it to you. And at that point, you backed off.

And I think you might have been a bit embarrassed. I don't know. But he said, look, you know, you're a member of the law society. If you're not telling the truth, you know, you're going to be in for it. So I'm going to believe you. I got no reason not to. And so what happened? So as I said earlier, I've sued the courts for their mask mandate because they had one, but it was consistent with how the provinces was. But then the province removed theirs in July 1st, and the court said, no, we're keeping ours indefinitely. So I sued them. Well, just a couple weeks ago, a gentleman who's been a lawyer for almost half a century, famous criminal defense lawyer in Alberta, he has had a practice, as my understanding, is that he's warranted to get into the courtroom, right?

And then when he steps across the bar, where only the lawyers are allowed, right? And so he's arguing, he's up now at the podium across that metal bar. He takes it off, which, I mean, you know, makes sense that we scientifically speaking, right? It's, you know, apparently, you know, if you distance, you're not going to spread the thing. So there's nobody around, right?

There's nobody around him if he's over there. So, but he had a judge who said, no, you don't wear the thing all the time. I don't care what you say. You're not taking that thing off. And, well, he said, no, I'm not. It's unconstitutional. And the court, the judge said, all right, well, fine, you're in contempt of court then. So, you know, so CBC runs this stuff, smears him, right, tries to make him look like he's some, you know, old nutball, and he's not at all.

And then so I, so at the bottom of the article, there's, there's the author, right? She has her email there. So my email her, I said, hey, I read your piece. You know, it's really cool that you're covering this. I said, you know what, attached is the filed pleading that I've just filed to sue the court? for their mask mandate. You know, this would be, I can't see how you wouldn't find this really interesting since you're talking about, because really, ultimately, this story about this guy not wearing a mask at the court, why is that news?

Why is that news? Is that really news? All the stuff that's going on? I mean, isn't what's going on in Afghanistan a little more important than that? She ignored me. She didn't get back to me. She didn't write a story because she doesn't want the world to know that there's a lawyer who filed something who's well written, by the way, because when I write my stuff, it's not, it's not cockamie.

It's good stuff. I know what I'm doing. It's well written. It's professional. And she doesn't want the world to know that some lawyer has filed a really professional bleeding to challenge this thing because it violates four different charter rights. Because that wouldn't fit the narrative, right? The narrative is that, oh, there's this old crusty criminal defense lawyer, and he's an old cook, and he won't wear a mask. And, you know, he's getting cited with contempt by the court, right? She doesn't want to follow it up in a neutral fashion and say, and you know what, he might actually have a good point about it being unconstitutional. Down in Calgary, there's a lawyer who fired a pleading that says this and this and this about how the mask is unconstitutional.

You can get it on our website. You can read it. You can decide for yourself. What's going on with this? She doesn't want to do that because, of course, that wouldn't fit CBC's narrative, right? That wouldn't be the balanced and proper thing to do, which, of course, they could never do that. they have to smear everybody who doesn't comply instead of actually talking about why they might have good reasons not to. That just gives you one example. I mean, I deal with the media a lot, so I could give you 100 more. But to me, that one, and I'll admit it. The reason I email this to her is because I was just curious, right?

I was like, I'll give her the opportunity. She doesn't know I file this. I'll give it to her, right? Who knows? Maybe she'll surprise me. She'll run a story out. No, no, he didn't even respond. Right?

That's a big piece of what's going on here. right people need to actually start listening to their friends because maybe their friends aren't all a bunch of you know tin hat foil wearing maybe they're decent human beings like yourself that have actually thought about it and maybe they have access to different information than you because they're not stuck watching the tv every night like you know people need to start this is why this is why free speech is dangerous to those who want control of power because they lose control of the narrative because people are talking to each other eyeball to eyeball and they're like you know what you're not lying to me you actually believe what you're saying to me let's talk about this as soon as that happens as soon as that happen that's what free speech is really there to protect then that undermines that undermines their ability to control because as long as you're not doing that and you're just being brainwashed by what's on the tube then then they can they can control you right and and and if you don't have access to all that information and you only have access to the to the information they they want you to have of course even though you're a good person even though you're somewhat intelligent you're not you're not you're not going to believe that there's

really anything going on because you don't have access to the information that might might make you question. This is why talking to each other is important. And this is why recognizing the mainstream media is not so good. It's really, really important. Well, yeah, I, uh, it's, man, I had to sit, I had to sit with my brother after we sat and listened to you. I had to, I had to just, I had just sit there. I had to look at him and go, I think we're wrong. Like, you just, like, are we, like, do I sound bad shit crazy right now? Like, because I sit here and I listen to that and I go, I know I'm going to get to walk outside my door, go home, go pick up my kids, right? Everything's going to go.

It's going to be nice. It's going to be, right, and I'm going to have a great old night. And, you know, and I said this to Roger Hodkins said too, right? Why can't people see it? Because they walk out their door and nothing's really changed. We got a pretty good life, you know, like, what's the big deal? Right? Like, what's the big deal?

And I sit and I listen and I just go. you can see it like i mean you it isn't tomorrow hell it might not even be a year from now but certainly at some point here you talk about falling off the cliff it just feels like the longer you let this go on there is no turning back like there's no way to pull the there's no way to pull back i want to read you a quote i was going to read this earlier but then you got going but so this is how a show starts okay i flick on and it an HBO show and it starts this. What is the cost of lies?

It's not that we will mistake them for the truth. The real danger is that if we hear them enough, or hear enough lies, then we no longer recognize the truth at all. What can we do then? What else is left but to abandon the truth and contend ourselves instead with stories? And in these stories,

it doesn't matter who the heroes are. All we want to know is who is to blame. And that is from Chernobyl. That's how it starts. And I'm sitting there the other night because I obviously live under a rock and didn't watch it when it came out how many years ago. And I hear that. And I know they're talking about Chernobyl, one of the worst catastrophes manmade on the planet. But you hear the guy say that.

And I'm like, fuck, if that doesn't like raise my eyebrows into what it feels like right now. That everybody behind the scenes can recognize that. something doesn't add up, but we just keep going with it. And I keep listening. I just, I've said this on a ton of podcast. So please, for the love of God, if you haven't already, go listen to Yomni Park. I think I'm saying that right. On Joe Rogan talk about coming, escaping North Korea.

And now that is, you know, that is how bad things have gotten on this planet. obviously Afghanistan is pretty evident how bad things can get on this planet. But to be under control and see how bad it can get, in Chernobyl, they know how bad it is. And even when they're questioned by smart people, they say, no, that isn't right. You're an idiot. No, get somebody new in there. As people are walking and dying and blood coming from everywhere, it's a disaster. It's not a disaster.

It's not a disaster because that's been bred in the society. I'm getting that. I don't like to fearmonger either. But the longer we allow it to go, the more it seeps into society. And I don't know how we pulled back from this. I thought you had a really good point once again the other night in that the way, you know, we can hope that James Kitchin, the lawyer, can change things for us and get everything going the right way. I'm sure that is part of it. I'm absolutely sure of that.

But the other part is people just need to get active. We need to get on boards. You need to get involved in your community. You need to get involved. You need to talk to people. We need to see that everybody's okay. We need to just start doing things and stop letting people dictate our lives to us. Yeah.

The funny thing about my position is if I'm right, or sorry, if people believe I'm right, and they might actually do enough to stop what I'm saying from coming true. And then they'll say, you're wrong. That didn't happen. Right. Or if I'm wrong, and sorry, if I'm right and people don't listen and then it does happen, well, I mean, I obviously derive no comfort from being right. It doesn't do anybody any good.

The only way anybody is good in the end of this is if I'm proven wrong, right? But the only way it can be proven wrong is that people actually believe that I might be right, just so they do something. So it's a really funny position where I am. Like that's kind of a lose-lose for me. And but that's the thing. I don't care about being right. I don't care about being able to say,

I told you so. You know, I only care about about people being free. And that's only going to happen if they actually think for a minute, maybe what this guy is saying is true. And if I don't do something, that could actually happen. Does it bother you at all,

you know, that it's not just Canada. Like this is like, worldwide. Like, this isn't, you know, like, so I always take a step back

and like, maybe I'm missing something, right? Every country seems to think this is pretty serious. Every country has, not every country, there's been different countries handle it differently for sure.

But this is happening throughout the world, right? I mean, everybody loves to point on Australia right now on what that place is going through with lockdown and police and freaking arresting people and I mean just go watch some videos of that like it is wild does it does it not concern you because obviously it concerns you but does it surprise you maybe

that it's going on everywhere no um it doesn't that's that goes back to the human nature and it goes back to the way most societies and most people, most countries are organized. You know, most of the world that isn't the Western democratic world, of course, is going to, it's going to, all kinds of bad, terrible things are going to happen. Of course, you don't, you don't have freedom, equality, rule of law, you know, strong, you know, fairly sophisticated group of group of citizens. You just don't have that in most countries. And then, of course, in the Western countries, we are so weakened by all this, you know, woke crap that, you know, were susceptible to this. And, you know, it's great for some countries,

like in Germany and in France, you see all these massive protests because that's their heritage and they're good at that. They've been doing that for hundreds of years. Even there, that's not, I mean, it's not cutting it, right? Because even there, so many of their people have succumbed to this, this woke idea that big government is good. And the only place where I I see potentially, you know, some long-term resistance to this, to this tyrannical worldwide takeover is, you know, of course, America, right? And even there, it's only in certain states, right? California, New York are lost. That's like, you know, you might as well be in some coming this country. But in some of the states. And it's funny, too, because those,

those, of course, aren't talked about as much. Or they're only talked about, you know, in a way to try and slander what they're doing, right? When Florida opened up, when Texas opened up, you know, and the whole, through the whole thing, of course, North Dakota, South Dakota was always free and they were always lambasted in the media because of that. So, so no, I'm not surprised because that that is what I would expect, actually. If this goes more back to, to human nature, and of course, who knows, maybe that's, that's probably in support of the conspiracy theory. And I mean that in the actual, you know, terms of the words, like the actually, like there's this theory that there is a conspiracy. I think it's a pretty good theory. And so that actually supports that

theory that there is a conspiracy to do it. But even putting it on the side, no, human nature, yeah. I'll give you an example. I'll give an example of this. In Canada, the political censure of the universe is Ontario. Okay. Everybody wants to fall what Ontario does. Everybody looks to Ontario. Ontario amends its human rights code to add some new woke thing. Okay, well, now BC will and Quebec will and New Brunswick will, and eventually Alberta might. That's how it works. That's how it works. works, right? So let's go back a couple weeks. And, you know, everybody's wondering if the universities are going to mandate vaccines for their students or the professors or whatever, right? And then, what is it, maybe early August, the Ontario University say, yep, yep, we're going to

mandate it. We're going to mandate it. And we're going to mandate it for everyone, except for those who can claim an exemption. Well, just before that, the University of Alberta said, Hmm. We're not going to mandate it for everybody, just for the athletes, and just for the people living in dorms. Because if we mandated for everybody, there are ethical and legal concerns. That's a quote, ethical and legal concerns. We don't want to do that for everybody. That was right before the Ontario University said, we're going to do it for everybody. Well, within a week, I think less than a week, U of A switched their position and said, we're going to do it for everybody as well. Why? Because they fall in Ontario. Because that's what you do in the university world. Ontario is the center of the universe. we're the university Ontario universities are doing this. A, we want to be like them because we want to be

as woke as them. And B, they give us cover because they did it first. So we'll follow. That's what happened. All within about, I don't know, seven, 10 days. Started in Ontario, everybody followed. It's the same thing on a wider scale, right? Same thing on the global scale. That's the woke thing to do. That's what they're doing. That gives us cover. That makes it look like we're not doing this as a power grab, even though we really are because they did it first. So let's follow suit. right and the only places you don't get that is where there's just too many damn critical thinking rednecks to say no right so places like south dakota and texas and forta where they say no we don't give a damn what you're doing we like our liberties and we don't care what you say about us we're not doing it right you get a little bit of that in alberta right that's why albara hasn't done quite as many things as the rest of the country but it's almost the same

but yeah that's how it works i mean it's the whole bandwagon thing right i don't want to be left behind right i don't know i want to jump and that's why this thing has its own momentum them, right? These people, they don't even know why they're doing it anymore. They're just doing it because other people are doing it. Right? Why am I jumping off the bridge? I don't know, actually, but everybody else is doing it, so I better do it too. Right. That's seriously, I mean, I'm privy to some of these conversations that some of these people have to have. And it's like, they're doing it, they're doing it, they're doing it. We can't not do it. We're going to have to do it. It's not like they go through some deep process about, like, well, the vaccine really works. And we really do want to keep our people saying, really? Do you really really?

think that's the conversations they're having? No, it's a really rough political calculation. Which way are we going to have to go on this? What's what's going to be the easiest path? What's going to save us the most money, right? That's that's the real unrecorded conversations that are happening here, right? And that's that's why it's like why nobody's thinking about this just doing it because it's like you said, the snowball. It just has its own momentum, which again was one of my fears in the beginning. This thing will create its own momentum. People don't even know why they're wearing the mask anymore. They just do it. because they always have done it and they're supposed to do it and they feel secure when they do it

because other people are doing it and they want to fit in, right? So much this fitting in thing is really big, right? But it's not just an individual thing. It's on a wider scale. And so, no, I'm not surprised. It concerns me, of course, but I expected it. I'm not surprised by it. That's how this thing works. Well, it's the peer pressure of society, right? You remember the, I remember the first people to wear a mask and everybody stared at them. And then it flipped. If you didn't wear a mask, everybody stared at you. But, half the time they weren't thinking, I mean, I'm sure there's people going, get your mask on. Half the people were thinking, man, why do you not get to wear a mask? Like, what do you know that I don't

know, right? It's, but it's the weird pressure of everybody staring at you that's uncomfortable. And we don't like being uncomfortable. I'll, I'll admit it. I don't like, I go back to it. I didn't want to talk about all this. I, you know, like, I get it. I get it that I've had some awkward conversations that nobody, you know, some people are going to applaud you for. Some people are never going to applaud you for that. Just stay in your lane. Stay in my lane. Stay in my lane. Ain't working. Like, this is not working.

Somebody asked me, and actually not I'm asked night. Now, Saturday night, somebody asked me, well, how come there's a lot of lawyers? There's a lot of law firms. How come nobody's doing anything about this? Where are all the lawyers? Why isn't some big national law firm with lots of money and prestige like fighting back against this? And, you know, the answer to me is obvious, but I can understand why it's not to

some people. It's because that's not the popular thing. thing to do. It's not the thing to do that will make you more money. That's not the thing that will increase your chances of being appointed a judge or, you know, having this great reputation amongst all your colleagues. That's not going to do it for you, right? That'll do the opposite. I'm not making any friends or increasing this massive reputation or getting on the front of a lawyer magazine or being named top lawyer in the country or getting, you know, getting, getting closer to a judicial appointment or, you know, or preparing to run for the law society and people are going to write.

No. But what I'm doing is the opposite of that. And that's exactly why most, it's exactly why most people don't want to do it. Most, I'll say most professionals, why are most professionals not doing anything for the reasons I just said. They don't want to risk their income, their reputation, the profession, professional influence, their power, how much people like them. Yeah, of course. And it's it's the same thing with you said with masking. I talk to a lot of my clients. You know, they're not, they're not like me. They're not some, you know, skin, a mile thick kind of redneck libertarian who doesn't care to anybody thinks that. That's how I am. I'm lucky that way. Most people aren't. And that's not because they're weak. They're just like a normal person, right? I mean, I've had people tell me to F off in the stores. I've had all kinds of weird, you know, invasive things happen to me. I could care less. But for most people, that's pretty, that's pretty mentally distressing and I get it. And they, and the people have told me, yeah, I put it on. And that's why. because I don't like the angry stares.

I don't like the comments. I don't want people telling me to F off. You know, I don't like that. And, I mean, and again, to go back to what you said earlier, that's, you know, this Christy Noam, I think that's her name, the South Dakota. Do you think she likes being slandered in the media all the time, being made fun of and all these memes going around? Well, no, of course she does it.

But she prioritizes doing what's right over her own sensibilities, right? But so few people do. And that's part of the reason why we get. here, right? And that's especially common amongst professionals, which is really, really, it always bothers me because professionals, like, we need the professionals to stand up, because they can do the things that a lot of the, you know, average Joe's can't do. And yet, it's funny, it's always the average Joe's, right? It's always those who have less to lose that are after protests and that are doing all this stuff and working hard. Meanwhile, the professionals

are just standing back saying, nope, I want to risk my income, don't want to risk my license, don't want to risk anything. I got too much to lose. I'm too important. I don't want to give it up. And that's so sad to see. Like if we're going to get out of this, we need some professionals to be a little more professional and start putting other people's interests above their own, which you're supposed to do as a professional, and start doing the right thing and take some risks. Well, I've kept you for an hour, over an hour. It's been fantastic.

It was not exactly what I had planned, but this never seems to go to plan anyways. I've certainly enjoyed it. But I got to do the crewmaster final. normally I do final four final five but I got one final one for you because I love to know you're a history guy no I'm going to ask you a couple the first one always is if you could have somebody to sit down and pick their brain exactly like I'm doing who would you take who would I take no living or dead I like living because I'd like I'd really like to you know if there's a possibility of having somebody on to actually pick their brain that could happen tomorrow that would make most sense to me If I had to pick somebody good, I probably would pick Christy Noem. I find it interesting what she did and how she did it. If I had to pick somebody bad, I'd probably pick Kenny, just because there's some relevance to my own life there because I actually live in his jurisdiction.

Because I'd really like to know the thought process. Because I'm always debating with myself. Is he just deluded? I have a hard time believing that. Kenny's an unusually smart politician. Or, you know, is, is there, is there some evil in there? And because I don't jump to that. I don't just assume that he, that he's evil.

Maybe he is just deluded. But, but both of those, both of those have their, have their issues. So, I mean, not the answer you're looking for, but if, because I, I would, I would, I'm good, Christine, no, bad. It'd be Jason Kenny. I'd like to dissect the, the mind of a man who has, done what he's done and really try to understand because he's because he's an intelligent man and I'm assuming christian no one's fairly intelligent too she strikes me as she is like politicians like

foreign in ontario they're just they're just stupid trudeau stupid and uh any of the day somebody say you know what i didn't like trudeau senior but he was smart i was like you know what i don't like it but i got to admit that right there are some people that do terrible things that are actually smart and there's people that are stupid can he's can he's smart um Trudeau senior was smart and uh you can recognize that. I'd like to dissect the mind of a smart person who did something I think is very awful and I totally disagree with. And I like to know what their thought process was. That's an interesting answer. I like that answer. How about this then? If you could go back to a historical figure and question them about some of their choices that they made. We talk about

uncomfortable times and once again, you know, I certainly hope I'm a doomsday and then in two months, None of this comes to fruition and everything else. But let's see you could go back to Doomsdayer in his time and pick their brain. Who would you take? Churchill. Sit and have a glass of brandy and a cigar and see what he has to say. Yeah. There's somebody I – yeah, and that's why I asked Living or Dead because he was one of the guys that came to mine.

I think him and I could get along. You know, he seemed to be a no bullshit. shitter like me. And, you know, saw what was coming with, with Hitler and Germany. Didn't seem bothered to say so and have people call him names and stuff. And then the time came, you know, he took the risks and he fought. He didn't give in. And, you know, I mean, that was, who, that was dark for them. And yeah, I'd, I give a lot. It was, it was. It was, have a candid conversation there. It was Chamberlain who came back from his meeting with Hitler,

waving the white paper, right? Saying we're not going to have war. And Churchill was like, you're an idiot. Right? And he was one of the few probably who said that. Yep. Yep. Okay, your final one then, because you're a well-read guy and you like books.

What book would you, what has been influential on Mr. James Kitchen? I can't say this book was overly influential on me because I'm already aligned with it. But the book that I have represented, I have recommended to my clients more than any other over the last year or so is a book called Live Not By Lies. It's written by his last name, first name is Rod. Last name is Dreher. D-R-E-H-E-R-D-R-R-R-D-R. And now it is a Christian book. I have recommended it to my non-Christian clients because I think it's applicable. I think it's helpful.

But it is a Christian book. And just briefly, one of the things in there that I think is really cool for people who don't know this because they wouldn't about history is there was a priest in Eastern Europe who had limited a number of influence. He had a few hundred people that he, that he, you know, could reach. And he said, I see what's coming. We need to prepare. We need to psychologically prepare, spiritually prepare for the coming tyranny. We cannot stop it, but we can learn to live well under it. And I don't want to be fatalistic and say, we're going to have to live well under tyranny.

Hopefully that won't happen, but it might. So this book is good for that. But, you know, it talks about a number of concepts about truth and lies and the importance of living according to truth, the value of it. It has a lot of personal stories of people who suffered horrendously to, to, to, live according to truth under a system of lies and how they don't regret it. They're glad they did it. It was awful, but it was worth it. So that house people who are like, oh, should I stand up? Should I nod? Is it worth it? It's going to be sacrificial. So there's a number of different reasons I recommend this book. I think anybody who's at all dealing with this, Christian or not,

especially Christian, would really benefit from reading, live not by lies. Well, I appreciate it. I appreciate your time. And I'm glad I pushed on you. you know we were going to do this in you know late on the night and then we kibosh that and then we're like two weeks out and I'm like two weeks out everything feels like it needs to be done yesterday so I appreciate you making some time for me and uh wow thanks again for hopping on you're welcome hey folks thanks for joining us today if you just stumbled on the show please click subscribe then scroll the bottom and rate and leave a review I promise it helps Remember every Monday and Wednesday

We will have a new guest sitting down to share their story The Sean Newman podcast is available for free on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, and wherever else you get your podcast fix. Until next time.