Shaun Newman Podcast - Ep. #213 - Dr. Rochagne Kilian

Episode Date: October 25, 2021

Former ER Doctor from Owen Sound hopped on to discuss why she stepped away from her profession. Let me know what you think Text me 587-217-8500 Like the podcast? Support here: https://www.patreon.com/ShaunNewmanPodcast

Welcome to the podcast, folks. Happy Monday. Hope everybody had a great weekend. It was kind of a nasty day there. What was that Saturday? Got some rain. A little bit of just crap weather. But, geez, Sunday turned into just a dandy for late October. If we can get that next Sunday, a week today, or a week yesterday, I guess, Halloween night for the kids.

I would, well, I'll do a little song for you next Monday. Not really. Nobody wants to hear me sing. But you get the point. I would just like a nice, no wind, no rain, no snow. Can we just have a peaceful Monday night to let the kids go Halloween, trick or treat? I don't even know if they're allowing us to do that. But let's assume they are.

That would be perfect. I think I said that like three weeks ago, man, if we can make it that, I'm going to be a happy guy. But anyways, let's get to today's episode sponsor so we can get, you know, on to today's episode. Carly Claust and the team over at Windsor Plywood Builders of the podcast Studio Table. For everything, Wood, these are the guys. I was owned at my brother's house. He's building this barn with an arched roof.

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She's a former ER doctor with Grey Bruce Health Services in Owens Sound, Ontario. I'm talking about Dr. Rousine A. Killian. So buckle up, here we go. So my name is Rousine A Killian, and welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Well, welcome to the Sean Newman podcast today. I'm joined by Dr. Roushine Killion. So first off, thanks for hopping on with me. Thank you for allowing me the time on your very, very good show, Sean.

Now, before we get rolling, I always get the guest, especially in these times, to just give a little bit of their background so people can understand who they're listening to or watching for that matter. Okay, so Sean, I'm going to try to make this quick. There's been a lot about me on the social media, the last well, especially with interviews. So I think a lot of people know the fact that I was an ER physician that resigned on the 23rd of August. That is my claim to fame at this stage.

But I always say, go listen to the interviews. I'm not going to repeat myself. But what I want to say is, yes, I was an ER physician that was four years employed in the hospital that I resigned from on the 23rd of August. But the part that people might not know is that I qualified in 2005 from a university in South Africa. And that is when I got my qualification. Then we ended up having two years of internship and we still have a community service year. But I didn't stop studying there. So even if I got my qualification in that year, my personality and the way that I saw

healthcare, even from the start, my journey didn't end there. So I think there's a lot of focus on what I was doing this last four years. And I love to get through all of this and maybe get to the point of what if I learned, in this last 16 years that can actually be of assistance to people and bring us through this in a positive way to start fixing the problems that got us into this space already. So a little interesting story when I work and emerge, I get this very often. I get confused or mistakenly recognized as a nurse student. So I always say it's, I don't see it as an insult. They don't even see me as a nurse. I always said, well, the older I'm going to get, I'm going to take that as a

compliment anyway, but I get mistaken as a nurse student. And a lot of physicians would take that very negatively, because they are there with authority and their scrubs or their white jacket. I saw it as a compliment to say, listen here, yes, nurses are caring. They actually have empathy with their patients. If they ask me for a blanket, I'm going to give them a blanket. If there's a code happening and I need to go do CPR. I'm definitely not going to give them a blanket. I'll ask them somebody to bring it. But I'm not too big to bring them a blanket as well. So I think the way I see medicine and the way I see my status in healthcare has been different through all of this. So with everything going on in this last two years, especially this last

few weeks, my role as a physician never stopped. I've never been busy. year than what I've ever been since the 23rd of August. Because even though my employment stopped on the 23rd of August, my role as a physician, as a healer, my fiduciary responsibility to the duty of care of patients never stopped. And it's getting to the point that this is now actually a full-time job. And we hope to rest maybe in a few years. I'm curious. I was saying before we started, like obviously you see behind me the hockey jerseyses and everything else.

and I've told you a little bit about my back story. What is it about doctors from South Africa, because I'm starting to see a trend here. What is it about coming from South Africa that makes you predisposed to see and to look at this situation with a different set of glasses on, suppose, you know, like what is it about coming from there that you see?

Like, is it stuff you're talking to colleagues back in South Africa and you're going, why aren't we trying this? Or is it something more in the way you were taught? I'm just curious now. So I think there's many layers to it because it's cultural, it's generational, and it's also the medical system the way we are taught. So let's start culturally as well as generationally. The people that grew up in South Africa,

we were minor aristocrats that moved away basically for persecution reasons. We resettled in South Africa. And the reason we settled there is because we questioned the mainstream narratives or we were willing to stand up for our rights. So the complex but easy answer is it's in my genes to question institutions and questions and question tyrannical policies if I believe it's not in the best interest of myself or my children or my patients.

Then you take it to a culture. In South Africa, we've got a very complex history. And once again, I think that's a discussion for another day. There's been so many narratives speaking about South Africa. So many people have opinions. but if you haven't lived in South Africa, it's a very high-pressure environment from a cultural point of view as well as a safety point of view. So the way that we are raised, we know what danger is. We know what real danger is when our lives are in danger. We are physically fighting for our

lives. So the way that we see our environment when there is a crisis happening, like we said happened in the beginning of 2020, we were maybe able to sit back and say, okay, I've experienced real life-changing danger. Let me just sit back and observe and see what's going on. So we're not in the middle of that fear-driven response already. The second part is the irony I haven't spoken to any of my colleagues from South Africa, any of my classmates. I haven't been in contact with any of them. So I'm not sure if they either agree with the stance I've taken or if they're just so busy fighting the fight at this moment, I can say. But there is something about South Africans when we move out of South Africa, because we were in this pressure environment, once we get to a place

like the States or Canada, and we kind of are given the freedom to excel, to be ambitious, to do what we want with the ambition and drive that we have already instilled in us, we tend to be successful in what we do let me just put this phone off i apologize um so that i think is part of it the other way if you speak about the way medicine has been in south africa we've kind of been on the forefront in some things and then also on the fringes of what was seen as the club in medicine the research groupings, the John Hopkinses, the ones that were connected by research already. So we were always on the outside, but not seen as the black sheep, because the innovative things that came out of South Africa was just too good to ignore as well.

Like Christian Barnard, everybody knows about Christian Barnard that transplanted the first heart. There's always been physicians from South Africa that stepped onto the stage that made people think, well, we need to take them seriously. It's the same thing when South African physicians come to Canada. For many years, we didn't have to write one exam because the Canadian governments and regulatory bodies knew our training and our experience that we get is so good. They don't need to taste us.

It changed when our government as the Canadian government to set certain things in place so that it makes it more difficult for us to come because they were draining too many physicians out of South Africa because of the political environment. So they really made it very difficult for you to start working here. You had to write so many exams. So it means that you qualified.

Maybe you worked in South Africa for many years. You want to immigrate to keep your family safe. You have to do all of those exams again, which some people see as a negative, or you could see it as a positive to say, well, let me get up to date. It's been a few years since I graduated. Maybe there's some new things that came in,

and I had to be retested on it. So we go through so much to be actually. academically sound when we start working here, I do think we take our responsibility that we've worked hard enough to actually be a physician in this country, that we take it very seriously. So what do you think then? If that makes sense. Yeah. Well, it does.

It's, it's, I just, I notice a trend, right? A lot of the doctors that are speaking up, even on this show, I've had South African doctors on already, right? And I'm like, gee, that's, I hate. to just like glaze over that when when you start to see you're like gee that's odd when you immigrated to canada then and you see what's going on with Canada specifically I mean we can extrapolate to the world in different countries and how they're dealing with it but seeing how Canada's sitting back locking down max vaccination everything like that what are your thoughts on it

um Sean I think my thoughts started with questions and it started with questions last year. Even though there was a story coming out that there is a pandemic coming and we were already, I was at the hospital say, listen to, yes, where can I help? Because we were in this high pressure situation, it didn't give me the right to say, well, now I'm going to forget all my training up until this point. Every single principle and every single protocol that we followed now needs to be moved off the table so we're going to bring in new rules. So that's where my thoughts started in all of this. Unfortunately, I think the Canadian healthcare system has been under so much strain for so many years. The pandemic was just the last straw on the camel's back that we are

seeing so many cracks at this moment. And that makes it a little bit more difficult to critique as well because a lot of the fallout from this whole situation in the last year cannot only be blamed on the last two years. It is trying to paint over a cracked. wall without fixing the foundation. So our hospitals were sometimes overrun already. We were overcapacity. Nurses were overworked, understaffed. And that's when I came here four years ago, especially with the psychiatry part of what we see and emerge. Psychiatry is always a big issue because we don't have the facilities taking care of these people. Then you put it on the fact that we only have one healthcare system. And I think that's the distinction that we need to make, for example,

I can't speak about any other countries. I only work in South Africa and I only worked in Canada. In South Africa, we've got a public health system and we've got a private health system. All our academic professors, the best trained people work in the public system because that's their passion. They want to teach students to become physicians. Then they sometimes have private practices. But we've got a whole private healthcare system in South Africa as well where you pay for your service. But that's the first start of it. You paying for your service. moved you from not only being a patient, accepting service that you have absolutely no say about, it puts you in a position of being a client as well.

And there's certain responsibility that is extended to a client that is not necessarily extended to a patient that has no other choice. When you pay for your services, when you're not happy with those services, you go find somebody else that gives you better service. So it's basically an internal balanced check to keep the question. quality of healthcare higher because it does boil down to competition. And obviously it can go negatively as well, where there's manipulation and competition in just the drive for financial gains.

But the offset to that, you're not going to become rich in private healthcare if you're not providing good service, that your patients are happy receiving. So the one thing in Canada is we only have one healthcare, a system. So there's a lot of people waiting on lists to see specialists, waiting to get surgeries, waiting to get consults on complex things that their physicians haven't been able to figure out.

And they're waiting list of months. But that is the only option they've got. They've got no other option. So that is the system that we started off with when I started working here four years ago. That's not even to say the 5,000 plus people that are without family physicians that are on waiting list, even find a family physician. So the system that was there wasn't even able to carry basically the amount of patients that needed to be seen in our population. And we know the Canadian population has become older as we moved along.

So the system is being put pressure on by that fact already, just by the mere fact that our age ranges are becoming older and older. So I think it sounds like an easy question, but it's such a complex question. if you don't know that you need to recognize the underlying issues that was there before we get involved with arguments and counter arguments of where we went wrong, what we should have done. And there is a lot that we could have done differently last year. I agree with that. But we need to recognize that there was a bigger problem to start off with. Is there any fixing the bigger problem while you're in the middle of this thing? as a physician or as a patient?

Well, I can tell you from a physician point of view, there's no way that you're going to be able to fix it because I've tried for four years. Part of my job as an ER physician was saving people's lives, but I got to the point where I said, I moved away from family practice because I wasn't willing to compromise on things that I knew was not the best choice for my patient. So I moved into Emerge because it was a passion already, trauma care, but I was able to save people's lives to get them out of the department.

But I honestly wasn't making a difference in their lives that got them into the Emerge Department already. So our focus needs to change on what is healthcare already. As a physician in the system, the way the system is set up at this moment, I honestly don't think there's a way to change it. The business model is so well set up and so well funded. There's no way one or two physicians are going to change it. But maybe we have been granted the opportunity to say, well, if we can't change the system, maybe we can create something different, an alternative system that patients actually get a choice

and people are willing to pay for service that puts them first. So it's a yes and a no, but you're not going to change it by taking the system away. You might be changing it in the patient's lives by creating a system where patients are treated with the intent of doing no harm, but also physicians that wants to move out of this system and be a part of the system where they are not burned out, where their soul is actually alive again by the joy of taking care of patients and getting patients healthy and not just treating the sick. So that is through all of this fight, the meetings I'm in at this moment, the things that I'm involved with, my hope is to get through this so we can get to that positive part and actually start working on something positive.

You mentioned in there getting patients healthy and not just treating the sick. So you're talking about getting to the root cause of things well before they ever get to the emergency room. Am I hearing that correctly? Yes. And I think anybody that calls themselves a physician that should be part of their mindset already because it is preventive medicine. It's lifestyle medicine. I know functional medicine has basically boomed in the last few years. And they are trying to figure out the root causes of things.

But I want to take it further. I'm a candidate for my doctorate and PhD in quantum medicine. And it's quantum integrative care where we say, yes, we want to get to the root of things. But sometimes it's so intertwined that you need assistance for patients from all the different role players. And there's a big group of role players in people's health that was basically moved off the table in 1910 with the Flexner report where we said, well, you don't count as a healer. your advice that you've been given to people or the way you've treated people for thousands of years, do not count anymore because it doesn't fall part of our curriculum. So if we are willing to come up with a new system to treat people,

we need to start deciding who do we include in that team of how we treat people. The second part of that is lifestyle medicine, the way we do lifestyle medicine, the responsibility is not on the physician. It's not on the healer. unfortunately so that's the part where people need to make really sure what they're willing or what they're asking for at this moment because we know what we've got you know what you want but you realize the responsibility that comes with it if you're going to see a physician that focuses on getting you healthy that physician is going to advise you on healthy diet exercising

getting your mind ready your mindset changed so there's going to be much more work for you but I promise you, and this I can speak from experience. That is what's kept me alive as a physician for 16 years, because I can see the difference. Once you give people the tools to start healing themselves, it's a whole different world. And that one patient that you treated, that patient has the ability to go forth

and maybe live out the life he was meant to live. And here's one purpose in life. He can now realize because he's not being, he's not stuck. in the sick care that took him away from his drive. Exactly. Exactly. You know, it's funny as we get, I speak of Alberta, Saskatch, when I, off the top of my head, I don't know the exact vaccination rate of Ontario or anywhere else in Canada,

for that matter. I just know specifically here. But as we close in on 85% of people double vaccinated, I find the pressure they keep putting on that last percentage, last 15%, or whatever it is, is the people you just, you just, talked about. There are people who have done, this is, this is the messages I'm getting. I have worked all my life to put nothing in my body that I don't want. I have done X, Y, Z. I've done blah, blah, blah, and being told that no matter what I've done, it doesn't matter. And that is wild for, like, there's, there's, I think there's, it's probably too simplified. But there's, there's, there's, uh,

several different groupings, but two that seem very evident. to me. One is, if I'm sick, I take a pill. That's what I do. The other is, if I'm sick, I try and figure out the cause and change my lifestyle to alleviate. And I'm in the more I read, the more prevalent that becomes. It's just like, it's just sitting there. Yes. The thing that I struggle with right now is we're in a emergency crisis of the health care system, falling apart, etc. And I go, and maybe you can shed some light on this. I keep hearing that if I test positive for COVID today, I go isolate for two weeks and get over it. Unless it progresses to very bad stages, then I go to the ER and now you see me. If you just take a step back and look elsewhere in the

world, and I've looked into Mexico, India for two, actually, I was just talking to a lady who started to text me this morning about South Africa. They do early treatment. As soon as you test positive, here's what you're doing. Because they don't want you to ever progress to getting to the hospital. And yet in Canada,

that's like blasphemy to talk about. It is, and I'm just going like, why is that such, I'm just a minion. And I go, that makes no sense to me. And as soon as you start

not have nonsensical things happening, more of the population, or that last select part of the population, does not. Like this makes zero sense to me. Why are we doing this? I assume as a doctor who's trying to figure it out, that's exactly where you got to. Exactly. And I think just to touch base on that first point you mentioned, that last percentage that they're trying to get, you absolutely were correct about saying that was the people that always took their health serious and made sure that they were keeping themselves healthy. But there's a small part of that grouping that people forget.

that's the grouping that was part of the sick ones, chronic diseased people that were looking for answers at their family physicians and specialists and they weren't getting the answers. And they were responsible enough to advocate for themselves to say, well, obviously what my intuition is telling me, I'm not getting the assistance that I need to become healthy. I'm going to look elsewhere. And I've done my work over years. They've treated themselves and moved. from Crohn's and diabetes and now they're healthy. And honestly, I've spoken to hundreds of

patients that are exactly this type of population that says, I've worked so hard to get to this point of being healthy. Why would I risk it on one injection that might get me back in a position where I was starting off with? When the benefit and the ratio, the benefit and risk ratio at This point of time does not give me the information to say that I'm willing to take that risk. So that's the first, that subset of population that we keep on forgetting. The second part of it, the early treatment, you're absolutely correct. Because I think that is probably, when we look back at this history, I think it is going to be one big mess in our history books.

Because we know it's always a mess and the victor writes the history books. But because of social media and alternative sites, I do think it's going to be a little bit different. when we look back now, but it's still going to be amazed because it is Macy. The one thing that I think we need to remember is it really doesn't matter where it started, who started it, what is causing it. If there was a treatment that was deemed safe and it was held away from people, that's where it comes into a point of not negligence and ignorance. It moves into a point of malentained and sinister agendas.

And that is where it moves into a criminal activity. And that, unfortunately, is happening in Canada at that moment. The physicians that you spoke about, Dr. Daniel Nagassey, you've seen him everywhere. He was not allowed to prescribe ivermectin. He's not the only one. There's so many physicians. I can only speak from myself. In my two years at the hospital, the one or two people I admitted, I figured maybe they do have, they have COVID.

They've got symptoms that was new to me. and they presented sicker than what I would think of flu presented, and they had comorbidities, all of them. But I would admit them to the ward, and I would speak to the internist, because we do the admissions. In our ER department, it doesn't always work, and the other places we do the admissions for the specialist,

and they see them at night or the morning. I would ask them, listener, I know of protocols in other places that have been very effective because I've done my research and not just wait for the guidelines to come through NIH, and that included pretenoseone, and it colluded vitamin C, Ivermectin. And as soon as you said, Ivermectin, you could see the discussion just shutting off and say,

well, no, it's not been valid, made valid through NIH. And I ended up asking this one specialist, but you know why? There's a lot of proof that it's worked. It's an essential drug on the WHO's list. It stood the taste of time. There's been millions of people treated with it, but it's been politicized. And that's why at that stage last year, it was kept. away from people at the beginning of this year. But at this moment, the drive to keep patients in

Canada or to actually prevent them getting access from Ivermectin, you would not believe how strong that drive is. And it's from the colleges. It's not even from employers or hospitals. It comes right from the top and is shrinking down. So then my analytical brain tells me, okay, if we actually are in an emergency state and we're waiting for the next wave. And we're not even willing to consider that there is treatments that have proven to be effective and we can provide it to people. You really don't even have to believe it works. If it works, it works. If it didn't, it didn't have many side effects. Then maybe you saved people coming into the hospital and we can save our health care. But that is not what is happening at this moment. Well, I get a ton of people saying,

why not just get the shot then? Why not just, if you're going to take Ivermectin, why not just get the shot? Why not just? And when you take a step back, you go, it feels like the government believes the only way out of this is 100%,

which I've had other people say on here that that's, you know, that's what we should be striving for is 100%. But when pushed on any of that, everyone agrees like it's damn near impossible. Like unless we go, to where we go to a dark place in society where we start pinning people down and putting it in their arm and I don't know what that does to society but it's not good for the health of it unless

we're willing to go to that dark place 100% is impossible which means at some point you have to allow for other narrative other possibilities to come through to help ease the burden off of your bloody healthcare system. Like I just, I stepped back at it and I just don't understand. So I think we need to, when you try to understand their numbers as well, even in the meeting we had with our CEO, he kept on calling for, I think at that stage, just before the meeting was 85% vaccination rate in our grouping. Then it changed to 90%, then it changed to 93, then to 95.

So they keep on changing the numbers anyway. So that just proves to me, do you really know what you're doing? Is somebody asking you, do you know what you're doing? Is it because you're basing your predictions on modeling that is done by IT people and epidemiologists? And you're not even consulting the clinicians. Because if this is a medical emergency, you can't have people like Fauci. I don't remember when he's last treated a patient or even some of our health officials. They've never been recently involved directly with patients.

They work with statistics and guidelines. You need to have the clinicians involved in those decisions anyway. But once again, they keep on drawing us in into these little arguments, trying to prove our point or trying to, the burden of proof keeps on coming back to us, where that's the one fallacy that's been procured in this whole thing is the burden of proof should be on them. they're pushing so hard for something, provide us the proof that what you're pushing for is actually viable, that you're able to get to that point where we say, okay, then if you say 95% is the rate and this is what's going to happen when we've got 95%, then maybe we're

willing to listen. But I think the listeners needs to remember, let's speak about Pfizer, because I do believe Moderna is going to start moving away because Pfizer was the first or the front runner from the start anyway. So let's focus on Pfizer. When you look at their own study, let's take it back right to the point. If people are trying to decide either to take the ivermectin and take the chance of getting natural COVID and having natural immunity or taking the shot and either risking side effects

or not, not everybody developed side effects, we have no long-term data to say they might develop in six months or two years. I don't know because I can't tell you that data yet because nobody's got that data. But if they're still willing to take that risk, you need to go look at the original Pfizer study. Just focus on that one. The study was based on not providing you protection against COVID and not providing your protection from spreading COVID. Their focus, their theme of the study was to minimize, minimalize your symptoms. That was the part A. The part B was to minimize your chances of being hospitalized. That was their aim. Then they came out with a, I think it was

93% it later moved up to a 95% efficacy rate, which was splattered all over the news and it's a new era and human history that they were able to create this. They came out arrogantly saying that they did this in 48 hours and it was a wonder in the human history. The smartest people came together to do this. But if you look at their study, it is not 95% effective. It was actually 0.84% effective. And that's where it becomes very technical. You need to look at the relative risk reduction and the absolute risk reduction. And I can spend hours to try and explain it, but basically it boils down to when you look at patients and it's not looking at the data, what was the chances of them having less symptoms and a less chance of being admitted?

A 0.84% reduction, not even 1%. So forget about all the other arguments. If you are willing to take this injection that is still in clinical trial phase until 23 and the people that they're including in this study was not included in that study, there was a very certain, a small amount of people that was included and they had to have certain criteria ticked off before they were included in the first phase. Then in the second phase, they added more people with soak, some kind of, for morbidities, if you were a smoker, those stuff of things.

They were excluded in the part one. Now we're in phase three. Now they're bringing in pregnant people. Now they want to bring in children. That wasn't part of the original plan with that study. So we're part of new studies now and we weren't even informed that our children are now part of a study and they're actually phase one of a new study, not phase three of an old study that was started last year.

That's the stuff that people are not informed about. but we need to go there and look at their data. Because we can bring data to the table and there's been very smart scientists, spending hours and days and weeks trying to come up with peer-reviewed studies and proof of alternative treatments. But if you don't look at what they're providing and make that decision, it really doesn't matter. I'm curious, what do you think? I mean, you lived it.

You were in the ER for, two years up until August 23rd. Everyone's talking about everybody in the hospital is being unvaccinated. 80-some percent, 75 percent. That number is changing a little bit. Obviously, you just got to go on for here, the Alberta website. I'm sure in Ontario it has something similar, Saskatchewan, etc.

You can see the changing demographics as more and more people become vaccinated. It would make sense that there's going to be knowing that it's just lessening the severity and that they can still carry, they can still transmit, et cetera, et cetera, that you're going to see people in the hospital with that. And I think that's what they're portraying is. Like, listen, we knew whether or not we said this at the start, we knew that there was going to be some people coming to the hospital. So what do you make, how can it be 84% unvaccinated then

if it's only a small percentage of reduction by getting vaccinated at me? Does that make sense? It does make sense. Or let's say it makes sense. that it doesn't make sense. Because if you're trying to figure this out from an objective point of view, you're never going to figure it out.

And I go back to my meeting with the CEO at our hospital because I asked this exact same question. I was working up until that stage, I was still working in his department. I was the person that was the gateway between the outside world and the inside world of a hospital.

That is the main focus of an emerged department. People come in, are the physician deciding if they're either admitted or if they're discharged. So if I wasn't even made aware of the vaccination status of people when they were triaged or they were referred to my department, how can the hospital be aware of the vaccination status? So I asked him, is there a database when people come into the hospital to say they are either vaccinated or unvaccinated? And he said, no, because that is private health information. So I said, well, okay, I asked my patient's sake

because I thought it was an important thing to know for the fact that if we were pushing this, let's see in the community, how many people have been vaccinated, let's start there. But the second part, if we're still in a clinical trial phase, if I'm seeing things, I need to make sure that it's not side effects from this injection that we just didn't know about yet

because we are still in a clinical trial phase. But he ended up answering me, saying, there's no database at the hospital. They don't keep a database at the hospital of who is vaccinated and who is unvaccinated. That is responsibility of the province and that's responsibility of public health. So at the end of that, there is no proof that people are vaccinated or unvaccinated. That's the first part. The second part is we need to remember what the definition is of an unvaccinated person.

When you had first shot, you're still counted as unvaccinated. When you had your second shot, you're still counted as unvaccinated. 15 days after that, you now count as vaccinated. So even if you were admitted with a headache or surgery, you had surgery booked for a day after you got your second shot, you're still logged as an unvaccinated if somebody asked you what your status was. Now we're getting into the rumblings that double shot is no longer good enough. the booster needs to be added to that. So I don't know. I'm not working currently at the hospital,

so I'm not sure exactly what their mandate was that was saying through to say if it's still double shot 15 days plus that counts is vaccinated or if it's now the booster. But if it did change saying that it's because of the third booster that makes you vaccinated, then this whole grouping, there's 78 plus percentage. Well, we saw that in Israel. Israel had that. Yeah. All you got to do is look up Israel's data. They were all, you know, 80% double vaccinated. And then overnight they dropped. And why was it? Because now you need the booster in order to be considered vaccinated. Since then, it's now the fourth booster. So the three booster people or the three shot people are still now counted in Israel as unvaccinated if they didn't have the fourth booster. I'm really confused here. And I know I got that written down with big bold letter is confusion. I'm. trying to sift through the confusion here because I mean you're you're on the other side of the country now uh I always go back to like we're a little bit in different worlds but we're in the same world if that makes sense yes yes when I I'm sick I walk into the ER I assume from everything

I hear I have to declare whether I'm unvaccinated or vaccinated is that not the case up until the 23rd of August, that was not the case. Nobody was asked. I do believe it's maybe changed now because it's starting to move into a point that they are saying that if you're not vaccinated, that you really don't have access to certain services. I know personally of people that have been denied access to their family physicians, family health team, because they were not vaccinated. I have no idea knowing in Ontario because I don't have the personal experience of being employed in one of the hospital. at this moment to say if that is true or not. But I still know for nurses that work there and they have confirmed to me. So this is hearsay. If anybody questions me on this,

it's hearsay from people working there that the wards are full of people that are vaccinated, not the unvaccinated. Because we need to start understanding if we were talking about a small population that was holding out through all of this, they kept on being barbarred by media, by family, by spouses, the amount of pressure that these unvaccinated people are under has never been as high as it is in our history. So you take that small subsection of people that are holding out against this injection. Do you really think they're going to go to the hospitals for just anything? No, they are so afraid of being marginalized and being treated as subpar humans in our society already. They literally will just.

just go to the hospitals if they are on death spade or if they were in an car accident and they had no choice about going to the hospitals. So the numbers that doesn't make sense. That makes zero sense. I know I'm going to, I'm going to follow all over myself right here. That makes zero sense as a doctor not to ask right at the start, doesn't it? Yes. Are you told not, you were told not to ask or it was just not a prerequisite of coming into the ER? It was not a prerequisite. So what happens with at that stage, the people registered at a ward clerk. They registered with a nurse that did the triaging that got their story.

Then they sometimes see a resident before I see them or I pick up their chart. Almost all of my patients that I saw, it was never mentioned anywhere in their chart if they were vaccinated or unvaccinated. That is up until the 23rd of August. I don't have access to any of my charts after that. But up until that stage, it wasn't asked. And I guess as we move forward here and majority of the population becomes vaccinated, maybe it is going to become more of a thing because, you know, you go back to August, geez, that doesn't feel like that long ago, but it's almost two months ago.

And we were still in the throes of while out here, an open summer of you get to go and live life. And now that is slowly caving back in on us. And that is not the case anymore. And you're starting to hear more and more about not letting. the unvaccinated into different establishments through gyms, through public facilities. There's talk now about, I saw out east in, I think it was Nova Scotia about not letting unvaccinated in unless they're the patient, right? And you're starting to go down this weird, weird road that I'm not sure how we get out of unless I just, I don't know how we get out of it.

I don't, if you're going to try to fight it with proof of medical negligence or medical malintent, I think it's a losing battle at this stage. It's up until the point that it's almost the lawyer's fights. But that's the funny thing. I've had. The populations fight. I've had multiple lawyers on here now that they're saying they're seeing some of the most obscure, you're just like hair scratching things happening on that side of the world they've never seen

before it's almost like the law doesn't exist and you're going what and then you're you know I sit here and I go what do you gain from resigning your job you know I've gotten question about this lots you know like Ruchner is acquittin she's writing a book she's going to try and become famous on on that side of things and I go not for you specifically but I mean you go, man, I don't know. That's a tough way to go about life. Like, I'm certainly not doing this because I want the fame to come with it. I've gotten enough arrows thrown at me that I'm like, I just, I got young kids. I got to know. Like, to me, I have to know more before I'm comfortable doing it. And the more you dig, the more questions I have. So on your end of it,

what drove you to August 23rd going, you know what? I'm just, I'm done. Instead of, staying in it. So personally, as an eR physician, I'm a mother and we've got homeschooled children, pre-COVID homeschooled. They've never spent an hour away from us from either my husband or my partner ever in their lives. So it's a full-time job already. So that said, I choose my shifts. I worked in the Emerge Department. I do 10 shifts, 8 to 10 shifts in this hospital.

And then I will pick up maybe one or two in one of the rural areas. So it means that I worked eight-hour shifts, of which it counted either eight or ten-hour or ten shifts in a month. So I was in full control of my life before 23rd of August 2021. I was able to be a physician. I was able to continue studying for my doctorate and PhD in quantum medicine because I chose my lifestyle that way. When I was at work, it was full hands on deck.

I was able to focus. When I stepped away, I was able to live my life. and continue learning. And that's what I have been doing the last two years. When I came home from a shift, I didn't even do my quantum things anymore because there was no time. I had to go figure things out, look for alternative treatments because nothing was coming through our guidelines. So not even the financial implications of that. After the 23rd of August, my life is almost chaos. I almost never see my children because every single day I'm trying to assist patients because just because my employment responsibilities to a hospital stopped on the 23rd of August,

my duty as a physician, as a healer never stopped. In fact, that responsibility just became more after I made that very, very public declaration of where I stand on. And the support has been amazing, not from very many colleagues. In fact, I've had zero contact from any colleagues in this area, and any of them that are honest knows that I've had good relationships with every single physician I worked at. We don't visit at home. We don't visit over weekends at home.

That's not my personality. But at the work that I worked at, I had good relationships with a specialist. Because when I approached them with a patient, they knew they had to make really sure, because I'm coming with good questions. because I've taken the time to figure this patient out. It's not a dumping on a specialist. So I had their respect. I had the respect of the nurses everywhere I've worked. And I take this as a grace from above,

but also a way of, I didn't see myself as being on a pedestal when I was in the Emerge Department. I was part of a very important team, and I took the responsibility of being the head of that team when I was running that ER department. So I had the respect of the nurses as well. But I could see that changing, And the couple of weeks leading up to the 23rd of August, and I could see the environment, the toxic environment changing because of discussions that was going on behind the scenes where I didn't really proclaim what I was thinking about all of these, but I was asking questions from colleagues.

Were you seeing D-D-Dimers? Am I the only one doing D-Di-Di-Dist? Are you seeing people coming in with vaccine injuries and people hear things? And I could see their respect for me change where I knew it's such a fine line of being in control and having the respect of people that you work with because physically and literally a person's life is on the line. If you do not have that working or the collegiality between healthcare practitioners and nurses that you work with, that it was becoming a bigger liability being there and being not part of the narrative, but still not outside of it. So I honestly didn't even feel like I had a choice. And the other thing is at this moment,

anybody can look on social media. It's the stories have blown up. I'm not on social media. I don't post on Twitter. I don't post on Instagram. I think I made the first posting in probably two, three, no, six months on my Instagram. So if they're going to try to follow me,

they're going to be very disappointed. I don't have the time to be on social media because I actually have a family and I have patients that I care for. So what I have, had to gain and what I lost through this, and some people's eyes might be more, but it's all in perspective. What I'm fighting for now is not to gain what I lost. What I'm actually fighting for is what we've got to gain in the future. That is where I'm spending my energy in and also

standing as an advocate for patients that are being coerced and marginalized because of their freedom of choice at this stage. Here's an odd or observation that I'm slowly starting to. I'm adding to it as I go along because I find the people that are standing up. I mentioned foreign doctors, South Africa being specific, but you've hit another one that I've ran into now multiple, multiple, multiple times. Home schooling. Home schooling people are, I would say, more inclined to push back against what's going

on. And actually, I'll add to it, faith believers, people who believe in religion or have a religion, have a, or a part of that culture, whether they just believe, that is a telltale sign they're pushing back right now. People with children are extremely concerned. Foreign doctors for all the things we've talked about and homeschooling parents. I can't tell you how many times I talk to the professional and find out they homeschool. Is it just? just not being a part of the system and getting to see the system from afar that gives you perspective? You know, you mentioned perspective. I'm just curious. I find that also very intriguing. Yes, I think for us personally, I think it's got a different, few different layers. I grew up in

the States when I was younger. So I have been homeschooled. I've been in a Christian school. I've been an old girl school when we've been back to South Africa when I was 15 years old. I was in a co-ed school. so I've done all the different trainings of schools that you can get. And when my husband and I met, we always said homeschooling is going to be the way. First, for one good reason is the fact that we are educated enough. We've gone through all of these different ways of education. And I knew how many times my time was wasted on things that I've never used again, that I was taught in school.

Because we need to remember the reason schools were created was in the industrial age to create a population that do not question. They stand up when the bell rings. They sit down when the teacher tells them. They walk in line somewhere. And especially in South Africa, we're very strict. We still wear uniform and things like that.

But it creates a society that follows the authority without questioning them. So we always knew our children are going to be taught at home for that exact reason. We came out of systems like that. We came out well because we knew we had an ambition to do something, but it's because of our personalities that we came out thinking differently, not because of the system.

The second part is we are in Canada, our culture group, and our language is so important for us. So our kids are taught in Afrikaans. We do Afrikaans curriculums with them. English is not my first language. And we want to make sure that that culture that comes with a language forms part of their schooling. And then they can learn any language. They're learning French now as well on an app, and they love it. but people that do homeschooling,

they actually are people that takes that responsibility away from the state. Because the first reason that you would do homeschooling is, my education of my child is my responsibility, not the government's responsibility, not the state's responsibility, and nobody else's responsibility. And I say this very lightly because I know there's people out there that do not have the luxury maybe of having an income or able to maybe have one parent working

and one parent taking care of the children. I know it's not as easy. But on the other side of that, how have we created a lifestyle that we want to keep up with the Jones' is to such an extinct that we have to have parents that work, but our kids are still being taken care of by other people and we pay them to take care of our children. So it's once again just a mindset change, but I do believe you're correct that homeschooling people

have kind of stepped away from society a very long time ago. And the way that they teach their children is observe. Observe nature. Observe yourself. Observe your passions. Because that's the one golden rule about homeschooling, especially the unschooling type. Get to know yourself first because you probably have a mission in life that you need to figure out. and it's not my role as a parent.

I can see things in my kids' personalities that I kind of know where they're probably going to shine, but they need to figure it out. And we can give them the tools to become the most effective adult and an adult that actually contribute to society. And then the discipline sets in because it takes self-discipline to do homeschooling. It takes discipline as a parent to keep up with homeschooling. And it once again boils down to the fact that we said earlier, people need to be careful what they ask for because if they get it it might mean that they need to step up we're all going to have to step up our game after this yeah it's everything you just said there is

fascinating to me i uh i enjoy my kid going to kids going to a public school because for everything you just said i flip it on its head and go i love the socialization i love them getting around different kids. They can be bullies. They can be the nicest. Just getting to interact with society. Getting to try and be indoctrinated as so many people have it, I think is a lovely thing because now it forces them to question things they don't understand, right? I guess I just look at all the challenges that come with public school system and I embrace that. And I'm like, I can't imagine myself trying to teach my kids. I don't know if it would end well for either of us. Maybe I'm too hard on myself, but I laugh about it.

I just, I find it very fascinating, you know, over this past couple months, it's becoming a trend that people who homeschool are standing up to this going, this does not make sense.

And I guess we're starting to see more and more that play out as this last segment in the population is being pushed to their breaking point, right? Now we're starting to see the businesses come down with, you need to be vaccinated.

Well, we're seeing this in healthcare workers in Alberta here, right? Yes. and other giant companies, right, pushing down, be vaccinated, submit your vaccination, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And as they're pushed harder and harder and harder, I'm curious what happens here in a month's time or a couple months' time and what comes out of it. Sean, I think I want to break down to, it's not homeschooling is not going to be for everybody.

And that's the thing. We need to get to a point in our society where we've got options. So what's happening now, and we can see this in our community, is education pods starting up where families get together saying, listen, I don't have the ability to teach my own children. I don't have the personality because you need to know yourself first before you take that on that job. And I absolutely agree with you. It's not going to be forever being. Might actually do more damage to that child.

But the socialization part has been kind of discussed by homeschoolers for many years. Yes, they've got very good arguments against it. I'm not going to get into that because it's not a homeschooling podcast. But what I want to tell you is that once again, if we keep on focusing on the problem, that's where we get stuck. But if we see the solutions, it might just mean that you take your children out of the school system where there is now a chance of them injecting them with a experimental biologic without your knowledge or without your authority. So they're overstepping so many lines. But taking them out of that system and putting them in a classroom of maybe 10,000, 15 kids, actually kids in their community. And there's a teacher that was marginalized and was

brave enough to stand up for your children's safety. And you pay that teacher to do her job that she actually enjoys doing without the stress of having a school system. And that is happening. We can see it in our community starting. We've already seen it here. The old one room schoolhouse in the rural countryside. That's how that once, I get to interview older community. and they all talk about it as kids, right? And we're starting to see that quietly happen. Very quietly. Nobody wants to know what's going on,

but it is happening behind closed doors, so to speak, for exact reason you're saying. People are pulling their kids. They know they can't do it. But there's teachers that are standing up to looking for an opportunity, and this is an opportunity. And you said something very important.

You said something very important. They're pulling their kids and they know they can't do it. Who says? Your kid belongs. to you. It does not, that kid does not belong to the government. Who decides who educates your kid? Nobody but you. So you're absolutely correct. We keep on being stuck in a certain loop by indoctrination. We think we're fighting against something, but there's certain indoctrinations

that we need to break down first before we are even able to see solutions. And I think if you've, if you've been fighting this kind of way of the world moving toward this globalist elite state, whatever you want to call it, apparently I'm the darling of the conspiracy theorist. So let's call it the global elitist. If you've seen this coming for generations, maybe it's easy to start seeing the solutions now, where if you've been kind of hit by a bus that came in early 2020, it's still natural for you to be like, oh my goodness, what hit me? is going on and then only getting to a point of solutions. But there are people out there that are

actively working on getting the solutions. And the beauty of something like a educational pod, what is happening? Those parents that put their kids in that school obviously are standing in protection of their children and they're going to be aware of what's going on. So you're going to educate each other. You're going to be aware of what's going on in your community. And it can expand into a community garden where you support each other, where you don't need your path. to go buy your groceries at Walmart, then you support each other. So the positivity out of something small as an educational pod, expanding into smaller communities that are able to survive this possible hard winter that's waiting for us, that's the beauty

of everything. If we're willing to unplug from all the muddiness and the noise that's just being created at this stage. Now, Roushene, do I have you for a few more minutes? I know we've been talking for, okay, I don't want to run you over time, anything like that. I have to, I haven't been checking my notes and I looked over it. I'm like, geez, I still haven't asked about this. One of the things I texted you about this morning was going back to the medical system. I listened to you and you clearly pointed out how I was interpreting it wrong. But when I, when I listened to you talk about going back to your ER days, you said,

the way my brain interpreted it was that you weren't seeing anyone with COVID come into the ER. And I was like, how does that? That makes zero sense to me because I got, I got friends here that have had COVID. I got friends that have been rushed to emergency. I'm like, how is that possible? You said there's a difference in the distinction, admitting people versus seeing people. You're saying you're not admitting people. Could you break that down?

And I know we kind of talked a little bit about a previous, but I really want to clarify this before I let you go anywhere because otherwise it's going to bother me for the next week. Yes, by all means. So when we look back on 2020, we need to remember that beginning part of the wave that was predicted and we were going to give the hospitals a chance to get their stuff sorted out and the lockdowns are there to give them the best chance of the waves coming. We need to remember that we didn't even see just not COVID in the hospitals. We need to remember. We need to remember that we saw basically nothing in the ER department. I promise you, we didn't see heart attacks, we didn't see people that we usually see. Everybody was so deathly afraid.

They didn't even show up to the hospital. So we were sitting there doing absolutely nothing. And that was for a few months. Then it came, became later in the year when people started realizing, well, I've got cold type of symptoms. I've maybe have a runny nose. I've got a fever. I'm not sure if it's flu. Then we've had these COVID care centers that was testing people, but a lot of people were still coming into the Emerge Department. So at that stage, every single week, our guidelines kept changing. For example, in the beginning, if you had a fever,

you were separated into our COVID possible COVID positive area. And if you didn't have a fever, you were put into a room. So if you came in with a heart attack, you were negative, presumed negative, COVID. And if you had fever, you were put in our post positive COVID area. That's where you split yourself. So as a physician, I would work here for a couple of hours. Then I would go into the other area and work in this almost quarantined area. Then a week later, the guidelines would change where it says, no, it's not just fever. It's now headache and fever. And now it is loss of taste and fever and now it is diarrhea that would go into that COVID positive area.

Then, and through all of that, I was still following it, but I knew that some of the guidelines that we were putting in place already just didn't make sense to me. I wasn't able to treat my COPD patients the way I was treating them before. And this was literally in a chance of a week from yesterday. And then this week, I wasn't able to treat them the same way because of a guideline for a respiratory a disease. I started reading up more. So Gert van der Bosch. He came out with a video saying, Listen here, there's rumblings that there's going to be a vaccine coming and we're going to create problems. But before that, and once again, it boils down to physicians in South Africa.

There was a physician in South Africa, and I don't remember his name, that said, listen here, what's going on at this stage is not respiratory. It's vascular. So if you keep on focusing on respiratory, you're going to miss people that maybe have COVID or something going on. So once again, then quickly the guidelines changed where the heart attack needed to be swapped. But let's take it back earlier. When people came in with symptoms of coughing, like they always do, we always see calls, we always see cold, we see ear aches, we see sore throats, that's throughout the year. It's not just certain seasons that we see sore throats.

those people in the beginning, they weren't allowed to be tested with PCR tests. Because people keep on forgetting, there was a shortage of tests. So we were given very strict rules on who to swap. And even if we swapped those people, we gave them a swap. We still sent them home with no guidance on saying, you say, yeah, we probably have COVID, go isolated home, and you will get a phone call if your PCR is positive. or negative. That usually take, it took about three days and later it became three to five days because the laboratories were overrun with PCR tests and they could only process as much. So you've

got that subset coming in with certain type of symptoms. No proof if it's just a regular corona that we always see or a rhinovirus. But now they get a PCR test. Now we base our case studies, because remember it changed from deaths of COVID? It's suddenly, very subtly changed in the media to case studies of COVID. And that change of the case studies of COVID happened when the amount of PCR tests, literally the test that was available, skyrocketed through the roof. There were companies making these tests and sending it out all over the place. Now suddenly in Ontario, we had a huge supply of PCR tests that everybody that came into the

hospital had to be tested. It does not matter if you came in with a sore toe or you stopped. your toe or you broke your clavicle. If you had a chance of being admitted or being seen for surgery, you had to have your PCR test. You did not have the option. Later, they added the rapid test that made it quicker to get the results back before they are able to send you up to the ward. So when you look at the PCR test, then it brings a whole different story of the false positive rate of the PCR test that was used, made our case study. It made the data. It made the data that came through from that invalid, because it was based on an invalid diagnostic taste already.

So when I say I didn't admit COVID patients, it means in the beginning we might admit people with heart failures. We didn't know if they were COVID positive or not because they weren't included in the grouping that had to be tested. We admitted them with heart failure and they went upstairs. If they were admitted maybe six weeks later, they would get a PCR test because now it's falls under the new guileons of the way people with COVID could present, now they did get a PCR test. And then they still had it to wait for three days to get those results. So they were admitted with that PCR,

and we didn't really know if they were positive or negative. So when I admitted them, I had no way of knowing if it was COVID positive or COVID negative. That rapids came in. And since the rapids came in, I admitted nobody myself. I have no idea what my colleagues did. I admitted nobody to an ICU department with COVID.

And that didn't change. I wish I had access to my charts because that would be the proof. I'm getting a lot of backlash, obviously on social media, because I'm quoting numbers that I'm trying to draw from my experience of when I came home, I would say this is the type of patients I see. I think this is the amount of people that I saw, but you've got no real proof if you don't have your charts with me. But that was my experience throughout all of that.

It changed in the last few months in the fact that the people that presented to my Merge Department, if you look at the guidelines that was given in 2020 saying that they can present with heart attacks, pulmonary embolisms, pneumonia, the whole subset of COVID syndrome that became known as the COVID syndrome. If you compare that description with what I was seeing in 2021, it looked very similar. It looked like exactly the same presentation. But then I started asking the question to these people presenting as COVID-like patients, I asked them the question, were you vaccinated or unvaccinated?

And that's where it came in, where a big part of these people that presented with COVID-like syndromes were vaccinated. And that's where I started saying, listen to here, something is going on here. If we are making a definition of a new syndrome that came onto the scene in 2020, and this is the things that you tell me they present with. And there is treatments that you first, when I suggested it, was denied. And now six months later, it's added to the wards. They add now a prednisone and they add a few things up in the wards when they're admitted. by other people. If it still fits this picture, don't we need to start asking the question,

why are the vaccine recipients presenting very similar to the syndrome that you created a year previously? And that's the part we don't have the answers for yet. Very long answer. Does it make sense at all? Well, just, it's, it's utterly confusing. It's just, it is. Because I have tons of friends, Well, we, we, uh, in this area, it is well known. It is a low vaccination rate. So the people getting sick right now because of Delta, just from my own eyes and ears are unvaccinated, it is worse the second time around. I don't think anyone can, uh, I would argue anyone on that in our area.

I'm talking. I can't see the rest of the world, but I don't know vaccination rates. I'm not, I'm even trying to break that all down, right? Yes. It's just in our area, we have a low vaccination rate. And Delta has come through and hit everybody pretty hard. Like I don't mean, I still don't know a person that has died from COVID personally. Like, I just, I can't think of anyone.

It doesn't mean that people in our community have not died from COVID. I'm sure there is. But personally, do I know people that have got sick from COVID? Yes. Do I know people that have gotten hospitalized by COVID? Yes. Do I know people who've gotten laid out for a week or two on COVID? Yes.

But nobody who's died. And so I'm just, I'm, you know, So those people that you know personally, those people that came down with symptoms of, let's call it a viral illness that really made them sick. They were in bed for a week. That they end up having serological blood test or did they end up having a PCR test to prove that was COVID or not? PCR test. They had a PCR test. Yes. So there is a there's a causation correlation problem there if we still don't trust the test. That's the first part. But let's say there is a, let's say, for example, the influenza this year was terrible. If it was not, because we need to bring it down once again to the simplified version, if it's not a virus making people sick.

And I'm not saying it is, if nobody's going to kind of run away with this idea. But let's presume it's not a virus. What else can it be? Don't we need to start asking the questions? Have people been put under so much fear for two years that their immunity is just shot? So anything that they were exposed to in this environment, they are going to be more susceptible to it, are those the exact same people that are wearing masks all day. And they came down with a bacterial pneumonia that nobody treated or a viral pneumonia that they would have developed because of the mask wearing and that their immunities are under such strain. That's the top of question.

So I agree with you. There is people, there are people becoming sick in this last few months, not last year. but we're still not getting to the questions of why are they getting sick? And then the next step is, if they are, why didn't they have access to early treatment? Yes, it boils down to that again. I come back to what I experience here, which is we are in the middle of the country, right? Like, I mean, obviously I live in Leibemester and it's a city and it's a small city. but the people I know are all independent business men and women who are not confined to a mask all day long.

Okay. Who, you know, just all the, all the stereotypes you'd think would go with it, wearing masks, etc., etc., etc., is not there. It's actually completely the opposite. They're unvaccinated. They are, for the most part, I think, out in the countryside, et cetera, et cetera, that way, to the good, I would say. The fear and everything else, absolutely. Everybody's, everybody's been put through the ringer on that. The cool thing is, is, or the frustrating, first is the early treatment part of it, 100%. Like, I know a couple that just sat at home and nobody

knew. And then all of a sudden they're in the hospital. And like, you find out later, it's been three weeks of them fighting it. You're like, oh, well, they need to, I don't know, I've had enough guests on here, go back and listen to some of the FLACCC and all their protocols, et cetera. But I know more and more people that are that are getting Ivermectin somehow, some way. And you're starting to hear those stories too where I've heard of a couple that are in their 70s, core morbidities, things like that. And within a day after taking Ivermectin, they were back up and running. And you go, geez, you'd think there'd be more put into that than it's a horse drug and it doesn't work. And all of that is just makes it so confusing all over again, right?

because what we do see here, right, I'm confusing the issue in itself because what I do see is unvaccinated people getting sick. But I also do see that ivermectin does work. And some of the things you were saying make zero sense to me why a doctor wouldn't know when they walk right through the door what they are and then see things. You know, you talk about seeing side effects or different things that could have been extenuating from the vaccine. Why is that not being talked about at all. You know, it makes zero sense to so many people. It's just like, well, I mean, if we just knew, it'd be okay, but it feels like nobody wants to talk about it or we're not seeing it. Well, I know enough people now and have been texted by enough people now that are having issues

with it as well, that range a full gamut of like different things, which is wild. So, Sean, I think when you when you break it down in such a way that people are getting sick, People always get sick. Maybe there's something worse going on at this stage. Ivermectin obviously is effective, but there's other things that people have been using as well with very good effect within two or three days getting better. So there's something that's happening that's easily treated and would get to the point that our hospital system is not overburdened by the fact that you provided them options of treating something viral. The second part of it, you're absolutely right. It's confusing.

we have no idea. I'm not just an ER physician. I'm a family physician. I come from South Africa. I've got infectious disease background. I've got sports medicine background. I've actually taught myself on so many more things. And even I was confused. I mean, that was just a product of what is going on. But the issue with all of that is at this point in Canada, we're not going to get the answers because physicians are not even allowed to ask the questions or raise their hand to say, Listen here, I'm seeing something. There is something coming up here that we don't know what's happening. Can somebody help me?

They're silenced and they're being followed by the colleges for asking these questions or providing certain treatments. That is the concerning part that we need to get to. Because if we are there already, it means it really doesn't matter how many smart people you get to a table to try to figure this out to save our human race, we're not going to get to the answers because there's going to be a big group of people that are just going to be excluded from that round table. And that is the concerning part. So there's no debate going on behind closed doors with doctors in Canada specifically that's like trying to break it down.

Let's say nobody that is mainstream. There's a lot of physicians that have been standing up in silent and a lot of people standing up vocally that are trying to figure it out day in and day out that is their main focus at this moment that uh that is concerning right like i think of the you know i've been following along with this for quite some time your name adds into the the the byron bridle the christian uh francis christian the charles hoff you know closer to us um eric pain as I told you had had on a little while back. And you can just start to see the names that are going and the things that are questioning and the fact they're just blown off to the side as like,

their concerns me nothing. I found that, you know, for people who are listening to this, who are just stumbling upon you, right? You've done several interviews and you can find the board meeting where you ask your questions and listen to that recording. that's the way my brain argues why your voice isn't heard is exactly what he says. And I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying that the fear of what's coming means your concerns are not valued.

What we're going to do is we're going to worry about kids and getting them vaccinated because everybody's going to, the curve is going to go like this. The statistics are going to go through the roof and we're not going to have enough. And the fear just takes over everyone. And then you take a step back and go, every time we've, tried to analyze where this thing is going. How many people are going to die? We've been so far off.

It hasn't even been funny. I'm not saying people haven't died. That's a debate for a different, from COVID or because of COVID, or from COVID or with COVID, I guess. That's a debate for a different time. But the projections that lead to the handcuffs that get thrown on every single physician,

and every doctor, every healer, is an interesting thing for a guy like me to sit back and watch and listen to because I don't understand that. That's like having a problem and then saying you're not allowed to fix it. You're just allowed to treat the end result. Well, that doesn't really, like for the short term, okay, but we're going into the fourth wave of this thing. Maybe we're going to go into the 12th wave of this thing. At some point, don't we want to figure out exactly what it is and go from there?

and the one side screams, we have the answer, it's vaccination, shut up and get vaccinated. The other side goes, if we just take a step back and realize other countries have done that and look at where they're at, we're not going to get out of it this way. We need more, and you said it right off the hop, options. Why wouldn't we allow for more options? And to keep all of our brilliant people involved in the conversation so that we can get to the answers that need to be had by all. And I think, I think, Sean, you touched on a very important point. The people that were that were willing to stand up against this very strong narrative at this moment with very good credentials, people that are brilliant.

You mentioned some of their names already. They were not the one standing up at a rally, screaming conspiracy theories thing. They were standing up writing open letters where they did the due diligence of asking valid questions, not making statements or. crazy claims that were asking questions, valid questions, that would maybe get to us, that is get us to a point where we can start figuring out and then start getting to a treatment base. So that part is absolutely correct. Then the other part we need to realize is we keep on hearing, but there is a couple of crazy doctors standing up, but the 99% of physicians are going along with this. So it means that these crazy ones must be crazy because they're the minority. That's a

huge fallacy already, and my husband is the great one to speak about fallacy. He's a lawyer. He's very eloquent. But you can't base decisions on the majority at all. That's never worked. A lot of our advancements in history came from exactly that crazy group of people that was either stupid enough to stand up or brave, whatever you want to call it, but they had no choice. There was something that drove them to say, I'm willing to stand up against the crowd because I really don't care about my reputation, I have got enough integrity. I know I've had patients that I've helped every single day that my job did not stop in 2020 when new guidelines came through from Ministry of Health. So that's the first thing. The second thing, and I gave you this quote earlier,

it says the lie, the truth does not mind being questioned, but the lie does not like being challenged. And if you look at every single of these physicians that you mentioned, the ones, the giants that stood up, the Peter McCulley, the Byron Bridal, the Charles Hoffs, the Francis Christian, all of these guys, they are willing to sit down in a panel. They're willing to speak to the public health officials. They're willing to take any of them on, not out of arrogance, but out of the fact that they've got enough conviction that they're doing the right thing for themselves or their patients or their families, definitely not. They're seeing less of their families at this moment. They're willing to do that because they see themselves as the advocate

for a patient that at this moment is being marginalized and being treated in such a way that we've never seen in our history before. Well, I really appreciate that. I really appreciate you hopping on with me. Once again, I've been saying this way too much lately, but my brain hurts all over again because it's just, it forces you to really think, you know? And before I let you go, I got to do the final questions brought to you by Crude Master. It's just a couple of, well, I don't know, everybody always makes funny. I always say light and then, or not that big of a question. And then I ask the first one, everyone's like, oh man, that's a tough question. The first one always is, the first time you're on. Is me. Is if you can do this with somebody, pick their brain.

who would you take? Who would you want to sit down with? Jordan Peterson. I've got a lot of respect for Jordan Peterson. A lot of our culture is based on the things that he says. And my husband has a academy that he uses a lot of those principles, even before we knew about Jordan Peterson. So that's the first one. Can I add a second one? Yeah. It's going to sound strange. Bruce Lee, believe it or not, because he was so far ahead of his time, he might have been a space traveler. I have no idea. But that would be the two. He has some, I have a Bruce Lee book sitting in the desk right beside me.

He's an amazing human being. Well, some of his philosophy is just brilliant, right? And it translates across not just martial arts, but life itself. And that's what makes him brilliant. Yes. Your final one then is what are you watching here as we move along into winter? What are you keeping tabs on or what do you think is going to be a big event that people, the public, should keep an eye on? I think the thing that's first foremost on people's minds are the deadline about not being able to travel,

the way that you were able to travel before by plane and by airplane, because the implications of that coming from a country that has, we've gone into a communist state and we've seen it happen in Zimbabwe, there are certain steps that needs to be taken where we get to a point where the government has full control of people, and restricting movement is a huge thing. So even in Saskatchewan, the things coming up in Saskatchewan, but I would say that is probably a big thing to watch. And getting yourself ready for the winter that's coming.

We know winters are tough on people's health already. And add the stress with everything going on, get yourself and your family ready and then get involved with your communities. Because at the end of the day, if you do not have a community around you, it really doesn't matter what happens. it just makes it so much tougher for what might be coming. It's not light. That's a deep answer.

No, but that's okay. You mentioned Saskatchew. I had a listener send me this earlier today saying that they really appreciate what I'm doing and having these conversations, but they said you need to be careful. And one of the things that came out last week, not alone with the travel restrictions, right? October, I want to say October 29th, if my memory serves me correct on federal, where you'll need to be double vaccinated to fly out of Canada or fly across Canada or take a train across Canada, etc. Is Saskatchewan move to hire, well, A, they've instituted the snitch line again. I didn't realize we had a snitch line last year. I remember Alberta having it, but there is a snitch line come back online.

and they are hiring ex-police officers again to have a COVID task force. And if you're in this area, I just read too that an isolation center is happening in North Battleford. Now, I don't mean to instill too much fear. One of the things that I realized and read was that the isolation facility in North Battleford was there last year. So it's something that's happening again. But those type of things in our country seem extremely odd when they're going to have

a COVID task force to help enforce not only the VACs passport, but masking as well. So it is very troubling times as a society, I think, when you have that and when you're a lover of history such as myself, you go, I don't think those end well. I really hope I'm wrong. I say that over and over and over again. I'm not trying to be foreboding and instill fear in people. I think we got enough of that in life. But when you hear those things and start to look at them for what they are. You go, that's not a path I want to go down, I would say. But I really appreciate you hopping on here. And doing this with me, it's been enjoyable to sit here for an hour, an hour and a half, actually, and get to know you a bit and a bit about your story.

Thank you, Sean. It was an absolute pleasure as well. And yeah, maybe we get to speak about more interesting and fun topics in the future. Well, we'll keep that in mind, won't we? Definitely, definitely. Hey folks, thanks for joining us today. If you just stumbled on the show, please click subscribe. Then scroll to the bottom and rate and leave a review. I promise it helps. Remember, every Monday and Wednesday,

we will have a new guest sitting down to share their story. The Sean Newman podcast available for free on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, and wherever else you get your podcast fix. Until next time.