Shaun Newman Podcast - Ep. 48 - 4x World Champion Chuckwagon Driver - Kurt Bensmiller

Episode Date: December 18, 2019

Dewberry's own Kurt Bensmiller was in the studio today. Known for his accolades while driving chuckwagons (4x World Champ) his hockey resume is no less impressive. He played his Junior A with the North Battleford Northstars, a cup of coffee out in Quebec's fighting league,  he helped guide Dewberry Mustangs to 7 straight SaskAlta titles & won an Allan Cup with the Bentley Generals. We also discussed competing against his father Buddy in the Calgary stampede and being in a sport where you can compete until the age of 65.

This is Kurt Vansmiller. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. This episode is brought to you by Factory Sports. Head on down to 4903-49th Ave downtown Lloyd Minster. The boys are there every Monday through Saturday, 9 to 6 p.m. Sundays 10 to 3 p.m. And if you're looking for Christmas gifts, just head on down there. They got everything.

I know I was just saying to Mel the other day, if you're looking to get me something, why don't you just slide on down to factory, pick me up a new twig? If you're looking for other things, they've got team apparel, hats, sweaters, you know, they've got different things. I always lean back on sticks. I like sticks. I like new sticks. But I was just looking at their Instagram page, and they got two under underwear.

You know, as a young guy, I hate getting underwear in socks. As I get older, there's nothing better than new socks, new underwear. So if you're looking for some ideas for Christmas, head on down to factory sports and see the fellas there. This episode is also brought to you by Fountain Tire. Now, they're open Monday through Friday, 7.30 a.m. to 6 p.m. Saturday's 9 to 1 p.m. Sundays are closed. You can get a hold of them, 780, 875, 627. If you listen to last weeks, you heard Kent Stanoforth in his story. He's an absolute beauty. Head on down and see him. Once again, with Christmas just a week away, you got rims, you got tires, either one of the. those, I know a plethora of guys who'd be over the moon. Heck, there's some women out there

that would enjoy getting a set of new shoes put on their wagon, so to speak. So head on down see Kent and staff. This episode is also brought to you by Windsor Plywood. Now, you've heard multiple guests talk about it, and if you haven't heard them talk about it, that's because the mics weren't on yet. But every guest who walks in, and today was no exception, talks about the table that Carly Clawson and the group at Windsor Plywood built for the studio, they can do the same thing for you. Now, if you hop on Instagram or their Facebook and see some of the custom woodworking they've done, the barn doors, they got these new cool stumps in there, just head on into Windsor, talk to Carly,

see some of the cool stuff. They got amazing ideas in there for you, and you can get hooked up with some awesome, awesome stuff for your house and et cetera. Finally, Hillmont is hosting Hockey Day in Saskatchewan, January 16th to 19th. That is right around the corner. Thursday night you're going to have Wade Redden and Friends. We're just compiling the list. It is going to be a fun night on Thursday.

First time, I believe, I could be wrong on this, that Wade Redden has ever played at the new rink. So if you're looking to get hop on down that night, game's going to start at 6.30 p.m. It's going to have a bunch of Border Kings from 01 or 0.1 or 0.4. It's going to have Mr. Kent Stanforth, as you heard last week. It's going to have some Hitman, Helmand Hitman, who won the senior Sask Alta League title from 2015. It's going to be a fun night. On Friday night, you have Marty McSorley. We had recently said it was Brian Trotche as a guest speaker at the banquet here in Lloyd Minster,

but he had to back out for a reason or two. And so we got Marty McSorley now headlining the Friday night banquet in Lloyd Minster here. You can get tickets at Cat Salon or Olive and Birch. Finally, on Saturday, you got a plethora of hockey going on in Helmand. You got Midget AAA men's and women's happening during the day. And then that night, you have the North Battle for North Stars versus the Notre Dame Hounds. Tickets for the day are $30 gets you in there. everything. And you can buy them either at the gate or once again stop in a cat salon or

all of them birch to find out more details. Okay, today on the podcast, I have Kurt Benzmiller. You'll probably hear me say this a couple times. I was excited and slash all nervous. We've played against each other for several years and when you're on the ice against a guy, you compete against each other. And that, you know, boils over from time to time. And Helmand and Dewberry specifically have had their battles through the years. And so to sit across from Kurt for a couple hours, it was a lot of fun. Here's some of his stories.

I mean, the guy has been the world champ of truck wagging three different times in his career, and he's got a lot left. He's won an Alan Cup with Bentley. I mean, his story is really interesting. He's a big, talented guy. And so you're going to get to hear it here firsthand, so sit back and enjoy. Without further ado. I'm joined today by Kurt Bensmiller.

We're just talking about an article that was written back in 2003. Kurt Benzmiller looks like everyone's image of a good hockey player prospect. Just turned 20 tall, muscular, good-looking, long black hair that looks like he showers every five minutes. Somebody wrote that about you. That's a little bit of ridiculous. And for people who know me or around this area, me and Kurt play each other, and that makes me hate him even more. My hair is since disintegrated. Well, thanks for coming in.

I appreciate you stopping it. I mean, we've played each other off and on. You haven't played every season now since I've been back, but probably one of the first things I ever heard of coming back to this area once I've done my roundabout and come back to Lloyd was we're walking into the Dewberry rank and everybody's talking about the Benzmellers. And I was like, who now? And then, I mean, you get on ice and I mean, it's justified because you guys are giants out there.

And while everybody who knows me sees me and I look like a midget beside you. So first off, thanks for joining me. I don't know if that was an introduction or not. I've used hate and looks like he washed his hair every five seconds in the same paragraph. But thanks for hopping on here with me. Not a problem. Now, what we do here is, I don't know, we're going to have a little bit of fun. You've got, I mean, you're still young.

You're only 37? Six. 36, right? So you've got lots of probably hockey if you want it to be, but even more Chuck Waggney. I mean, you can go until you're 65 there. So, I mean, you got many, many year ahead of you if you want, but we're going to dig into some of the stuff you've done up until this point. Sure. So I guess, first and foremost, because everybody always talks about this in the Saskout every single year, whether you know it or not.

Are you still playing? I've played three games this year. I was skating with the guys the whole time, but I just wanted to coach, and then I found out I get suspended quicker as a coach than I did as a hockey player. So then my biggest problem with it was Innesville still calling to go down there and play. And then once I got suspended as a coach, I wasn't allowed to coach my kids hockey. So then I actually got suspended. It was two games in Saskalta, but it ended up being like six games because if I was playing and got suspended, I can still go coach everybody, but I can't do it as a coach.

So then when I had to miss a bunch of games for the kids, I said I probably should back off. Either that or close my mouth, so I'll probably just stop coaching as much. Do you ever worry about injuring yourself? Because, I mean, you played in the league a long time. It's not like you're a perimeter player per se. And it's not like you don't have guys head hunting you from time to time. Do you ever worry about it? Because, I mean, like, your career is Chuck Wagoning.

Like, you're a rock star when it comes to Chuck Wagoning. Well, I've had operations on both my shoulders already, right? Just once or multiple times? One on each. One on each. And then the AC on, it popped up in one game. But I used to wear them, like people talk about the new Sherwoods that look like the old Cooper shoulder pads. But mine were the old ones.

They had two straps. That was it. It was probably a waste of time to put them on. And that's what I had for a long time. But I've always had shoulder problems between wagons and then actual hockey. So I don't know about actually hurting myself. I mean, it's always in the back of your mind. But I'm one of them guys.

Like you said, I don't really like to play the perimeter. I like to be right in the middle of the shit for the most. part so and then it seems like if I do one dumb thing I get 10 done to me and then you do one them back but you're uh you know because most teams really like to key off on it because I've been in here long enough and I've been an asshole long enough I guess so well and you're talented player right like I mean I maybe not as talented as I once was but yeah well you're speaking to the choir now yeah well I mean 10 years ago was a lot difference and it didn't seem to matter what guys did you just we still found a way to win all the time but we were young

and just had fun. And super talented, too. Like, I mean, when we came in a, when I came in a league at that time, you had four lines that were just, like, mean. And I'll shed some love on a few guys. One of them I got to play with was Brad Noble used to chase me around the ice, used to drive me nuts. I'm sure he'll laugh at that.

And then the Cusack brothers, like Shane used to just absolutely grind my gears every single time we played him. And he was a good hockey player. I grew up playing ball with Shane. And you guys just had, you were just top to bottom, top notch. Yeah, we had a really deep. There were some teams that probably the odd time would have a couple, like probably more skilled guys, but from top to bottom,

we, you know, we didn't always have the best team, but we seemed to win because we all kind of played like Tyson Knights, another one that just dangerous. And we always had your Johnny Ross's and your Cresses and Poulax or whoever that come from Bonneville just to give us that little bit more edge all the time. So we were just always deep. Yeah, well, you won't have seven years. in a row, right? For people who don't know what the heck we're talking about, right? Like,

there's a reason why towards the end, everybody was trying to find a way to knock you guys off. I always think of Chessie and the Nielberg. You guys had absolute wars with that team. Yeah, yeah, no, we did. We went to game seven with them guys. I mean, we won seven years. Like, the team had won one game, and then they won no games, and then they took a year off, and then we ended up a bunch of us just come back from junior or work or wherever and ended up starting to file back into Dewberry. And we lost to, in game seven to two hills and we shouldn't have took them that far.

They had McNee and Giblehouse and Wadsie. Like they had some really talented young players and a lot of our guys are 42, 43, some of the old boys just coming back to help out. And then the next year, yeah, we went on kind of a tear and won it seven times and then we lost to, I think, Hillmont in that's right. I was on the bench. The only thing that would have made that sweeter is if you were on the ice, but it would have been a dangerous person to have out there.

Yeah, maybe. I might have swayed it a few times. The chance got suspended. and that's the games that we actually won was without Chance on the ice, and then when he come back, it affected it just. Chance got suspended,

and my brother got married. So all the games chance was suspended, myself and my brother and my other brother that was coaching, we're all in Mexico. Oh, yeah. And you guys won both of those games.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and then that, well, somebody scored right at the end, but we got outplayed, but Botel stood on his head. And we lost him. He had actually lost his brother in that series, so then he was gone for four games

in our video. I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah, he was a fireman, yeah, but it was a different incident so how he lost him. But yeah, he was gone, so he never got to play until the finals too, right? And Votel was our starter, so then we had the other one go. But he played really good too, and he won it just. Well, they were all good games, right?

Yeah, all the way through, yeah. That's how finals are supposed to be. We won a bunch of years. Well, actually, our semis against Vermillion, we're probably more battle. We went to five games and seven games once, and then would go sweep two hills. And so it wasn't really, yeah. Yeah, finals. You want to see it go back and forth.

Yeah, that's right. Game 7 and Hillman that year we played you or even game 6 and Dewberry for that matter when we were playing you guys. It was nuts. Doobary was louder than Hillman, mainly because the fans can get over top you in the old rank, right? Just cat call you and it was awesome. But that's atmosphere is what it's all about, right? That's what we all played for, I think. Oh yeah, especially back then. It's kind of lost as much. I don't know about Hillen I didn't get to go while. I haven't played there in a while. But most of the Barnes, we used to play everybody four times, you know, play 20 games or 24 games. and now that you play guys once or, you know,

nobody wants to travel too far away anymore. So then all the old farmers don't come and bicker at each other. So we've lost that. Like we used to not sell out, but used to have some big games and a lot of people in the stands, but it's hard with no rivalries because our rivalries aren't as strong as what they used to be. Interesting.

Hmm. I'm, when I first came in, we used to play Neilberg, well, back to the four times. I hated it. Yeah. Because by the end, you just don't want to play each. But we never had enough teams where you didn't see the same team a crap tone of times. And saying that in the modern era of this Ask Alpha then, we played Elk Point over 20 times in three years.

Because we met them in the playoffs, three straight years, and we went the distance with them, three straight years. Anybody who played in that time for either side absolutely hates the other side. The fans packed either side because it was a ton of fun. Yeah, well, that's what I'm trying to say is, like, for the fans, especially, and the players, I mean, hate makes you want to play just as badly as love for the game, right? So when you're going out there because you despise somebody, I mean, when we won, a lot of them years, a lot of them teams would turn around and, like, we'd beat them out and it ended up being in Dubray most times, and, like, we'd have the whole Vermilion team almost

in our room, or when we beat out Neilberg, same thing, the whole team is almost in our room. And, you know, as much as you're like, F you all the time. you're still like, you know, we joke, you still poke them. Because that's the best part about hockey. And I try to explain to them guys even when I was coaching here for the first little bit. But that's the part that I miss the most is the camaraderie, like in the rooms after bullshit with the guys, tell them, you know, I hate that crap where they, you know, high-five each other, the opposing team or slap them on the butt. It's a good job or they talk during the game.

Just fucking despise it. But after the game, you know, if it's your friend or whatever, you want to talk about anything, go, go have beers. That's the best part about hockey, right? because everybody's got their own stories. It doesn't matter what team you play on. This is, I don't want to segue into chuck wagging too soon, but I've been wondering this for a really long time.

Since I approached you about coming on, I know you, like, with Chuck Wagging specifically, you can do it until you're 65. And by all accounts, I'm pretty sure you can do it really well until you're older. Like, I don't think all of a sudden there's a huge drop off when you hit 43 or anything, right? Like, I mean... Well, just be your health.

I mean, everybody age is different. As long as your health is okay, you should be... So when when you're... When you and Buddy were competing against each other, does you guys talk? Or was it like, we don't talk once we're in the competition? Because I know if it was a hockey game and you're competing against each other for game seven or the Allen Cup or something. I can imagine what I'd be like. Yeah, like we would talk right up until the race, like when we were actually racing against each other.

And then on the track, we would like talk back and forth. I'm probably more vocal than most drivers. Some people think I'm being arrogant or an asshole, but really I'm just talking to the guys. Lots of guys can't break concentration. They can't look left or right or they don't like that, you know, so it makes it difficult. But with Dad, the way the race has played out, he's been in so many that if I had an advantage or whatever, he'd kind of tell me to shoot the hole or, you know, heads up or whatever, just as we're going through because we're racing against each other, but we're still trying to, like, he knows the whole game, right?

He's been like that forever, so. How cool was that? Because you guys competed at the stampede against each other, right? Yeah, yeah, and then we were like six and seventh in the world. I don't know, in the first five or whatever years I was racing. And he, so we finished off about two or three shows where we were head-to-head the whole time, and we just went back and forth on winning races. So it was pretty good, you know, like it's cool because you're racing against him,

and he's so much smarter. Actually, the first race I ever raced, I raced for four days in Grand Prix. And on the fifth day, one of the other older guys had a heart trouble. So then they got Buddy to drive, and he was in the first heat. So he got to race against me. So it's my fifth day, and now I'm already racing against Buddy. And I ran over my barrels because I was so excited to get out there. and trying to make sure he didn't take the rail from me and stuff, which then after he gave me shit,

he's like, why would you do that? Like, you were from, you know, I was just jacked out because I get to race them that quick and, yeah, I made a big mistake. I got to assume the wagons, like there's got to be really good camaraderie amongst drivers and outriders and everything. Yeah, it's still a sport, though, because there's some that get tired. It's like, I don't know, a lot of guys used to come over to camp for beers and we go around, but a lot less now that I've won a little bit more, especially over the last like five or six years, because guys do get, you know, like they get pissed off. It's because it's the same guy that wins, you know, usually or always tough so that they're hoping. Like I missed, I had a couple, well, it was still my fault, but I had a couple new horses on in Pinocca and I missed a barrel.

And hardly anybody was talking to me all year because I just won Madison Han. I was still number one in the world or whatever. And I did that next day. There wasn't hardly a driver that wasn't, hey, how are you doing? What's going on? Because then they knew for sure, for sure, I was out. And then even in Calgary, I hit my two barrels, I come back and I almost made it in with 13 seconds and penalties. And talking to Logan, you know, go congratulate him or whatever after.

Because he did a good job. And he's telling me how, you know, he was kind of worried about it the whole time because I just keep crap-knop, crappin-up, you know, until all of a sudden I was that close to getting in. and, you know, they're always worried if I'm around. But it's just how it goes, I guess. Let's go back to your younger days. I was, you know, on the questionnaire and then doing what little research, you know, you can find on your early years of, like, hockey and everything. Specifically hockey.

Like, you didn't go play AAA over in, you know, Eminton and then carry on to a big hockey career, right? Like, you stayed in Dewberry and then. in Dewberry and then a little bit of St. Paul and then to Wainwright and then Junior A and North Balford. Yeah, that's it. I mean, when I, I don't know, I was just really tall and kind of gangly. I wasn't really much of a, which I still don't think I have much for hands. I do better when I have less time than I want to have more time, right? But it was, yeah, I went to St. Paul for a couple years in Peewee and then just played like B and C hockey. then I played Mustangs when I was in Bantam

and then I played them when I was in midget all through playoffs because we are already out. Oh, so you get called up? Yeah. Yeah, I got in shit the first time I went because I was only 15 years old and got called up to play Mustang so the coach come and got me in

so Buddy didn't know until after so he was kind of pissed off because I was still pretty young to be going out playing it. Who was your first game against? You remember? It was Manville. Well, I think it was for Manville-Bermilians

split for a year or two years. So we were in Manville when Brent Roman Chuck come and pick me out. How is that barn? That's a barn I've never played. Manvils? Yeah. It's, I haven't been in it in so long, but it's pretty small. It's like Dewberries.

It's really tight, compacted. Well, Dubberries isn't like that anymore because of the Uriand. No, you guys actually got a really nice facility. A really nice facility now. Yeah. Are you guys going to do anything about the seating? Well, they're going to, but they ran out of the money, so they had to pick somewhere to, something to go, right?

You can't do your boards. You're talking to a guy from Hillman who, our dressing rooms are like gum packages. I mean, you get stuck in there. Yeah, they're horrible. I mean, you got a brand new facility. It's freaking awesome. Like, we got to play there last year. Yeah, the booth, the ice surface, the higher roof now, the dress rooms are all nice and big.

Like, it's a, yeah, it's a really nice facility. Yeah, yeah. But as far as hockey, then I was going to go try out for the AA team for the Polar Kings in Wainwright. And my uncle told me he was kind of part of it. And he told Buddy that there was no point because I wouldn't make the team. So I went and skated with the junior B and Vermillion. just as they were doing their fall camp or whatever, just their conditioning.

And I fucking pulled my groin. So then I only got to play, I went for one skate with the Polar Kings, and then the tournament started because they used to bring all them teams in just for the Polar King tournament. And I had only skated once, so then they told me that if I didn't skate, then they couldn't put me on the team. So I played against, I don't know, was Grant Pury or Fort McMurray maybe or somebody, whoever it was. And I was out for the first period, and I got three goals.

and then they said that's good and then I went home and then I come back in two weeks and my groin was better and so I played there all year I was I led the team in points and I think it was second or third in the league and then I went and played junior B for the finals or no we played Satellake and then we played Lloyd to win the finals for the junior B's so it was pretty sweet I got put on with some good players so it helped me out like growing up did you strictly I like knowing your heritage knowing that your grandfather both competed in the chucks and your dad was a big chuck guy. Did you do hockey and just chucks or were you like all over the place with sports or?

Well, we played baseball a little bit when we would be like, I don't know if school still like that, but grade 3-6, you always had to stay back for your achievement tests or whatever it was called, your government ones. So we'd have to stay home longer and we couldn't travel with that as much. So then we'd play baseball and whenever we could. And I played a lot of volleyball, which was good in badminton, but it was hockey and wagons was basically. So you had a life on the road with wagons there?

Yeah, yeah, especially when we moved to the WPCA, because basically when we leave, and it's still the same now, when you leave that May Long or a little after you're there, we get two weeks off now because of Bonneville racing and we come home. But other than that, we're gone from that May long weekend or a little after until third week and August,

then we finally come home. So we're definitely on the road. Do your family come with you now? Yeah, yeah. Honey, you got three kids? Three girls, yeah. Three girls? Yeah.

It's exciting. How's that? It's good. How old are they? 10, 8, and 5. Oh, you're a little better than me. Yeah. Well, they all play hockey.

Yeah, so it's fun. They're exciting. One's like me a lot, like choppy and jammy and smashing into stuff. And the other one's like real smooth and quiet, but faster. Yeah. But yeah, they're all. They're getting your height and size? The middle one might not, but the oldest and the youngest are big.

women's hockey sure come a long way like did they have opportunities here in the next because what's 10 10 is adam yeah second year adam yeah and so like moving in peewee ban them for sure they probably have ways they're places they can go yeah i imagine yeah yeah we'll start i'm gonna keep them in minns as long as they can yeah well keep them men's are playing men's right now yeah yeah yeah they're mixed yeah i won't put them in girls hockey until later on i just uh i don't know i i always thought that for the most part and it's not always obviously but them girls end up being a little tougher and a little lively area, right? And I think that helps them out in the long run.

Does Dewberry have an Adam? Adam team, or are they playing Adam Marlain? Adam Marlain is split. It's split. We've got two Adam teams actually split between Marlain and Dubry. Oh, nice. There's 22 kids or whatever. They brought up four novices to make that, but it was,

we weren't going to have 18 kids on one Adam team, right? That's too much. Yeah, and then same with novice. If we didn't bring them up, they'd had 19 there or whatever, and have to play half ice with 18 kids or 19 kids, four on four. There's a lot of sitting, a lot of downtime. How was playing junior in North Battleford? Because that would have been a change for you. Yeah, it was good. I ended up in Battleford only because they still had the Red Line. Alberta just took it out, so I chose to go

to Battleford instead because they still had it. What? Yeah, that was when the Red Line first came on. I remember. I remember that. Yeah, and Alberta had it out already. They had just taken it out. Why on Earth would you care? I liked it. I liked, if we could put it back in, I would still be stronger now because that battling out, you don't get that extra speed. It's a lot more one-on-one. There was actually probably just about as many breakaways back then, too, because the D could stand up on the blue because nobody could stand 10 feet behind.

And now the D have to cheat a little bit, especially if you're against some pretty fast, strong guys, right? But there was just way more battling along walls when the red line was in because guys couldn't go. Everybody had to stay in the end. just a little more wars. I liked it better. Imagine that in the Dewberry rank. No friggin red, or red line in the Dewberry? It's already a tin can. Yeah. Yeah, well, Estaban was probably the same size as Dewberry's Arena.

Yeah, we'd go Estevan and Weber and then go to Wilcox, which is Notre Dame, and it's an Olympic size. It was horrible if you'd play them on the third game and three nights, but it was because it was complete opposite. But, yeah. It's like going from Dewberry to Two Hills. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I'm like, where am I out here? Yeah.

So I was, you billeted in North Battleford, right? Yeah, it was good. Nope, North Battleford had a lot of fun, yeah. Like, I was looking at your stats. Like, your last year you put up 46 and 50. Yeah. And 252 penalty minutes. Yeah, I had a lot of penalty minutes every year yet.

Did you ever think of like, I don't know, going someone with that? No, I wanted to drive wagons. And I was already driving at that point. So as soon as Hawk season is done, it was go home and start spring training. And then the second we got home from wagons, I would come and I'd usually make it for the black and white game or something. It'd knock the rust off the skates or whatever, and it would take me a couple weeks to start going in. I'm going to assume you weren't doing any conditioning then in the off season. No, no, my arms were good.

What do you think all these kids playing hockey year-round and never doing anything but hockey? I think that's horrible. I mean, if you talk to, like, if you read any of the biographies on some of them guys, like you take Getslaft. Getslaff's like one of them guys that said the more sports you can play, the better hand-eye, the better. And then you don't get sour on it. I really believe the kids just need to have multiple opportunities, right? Sports especially. Different teams, different people.

It's harder in a small town because it's always the same kids that are going to play baseball, volleyball, as hockey, but it's good for kids to get out. And the other one is free skating. I think kids don't get to do that and road hockey as much as we did growing up. I noticed on our team, even the Adams and some of the pee-wees, there's lots of them that when you watch them out there, they probably don't have the shots and stuff, they don't play with the puck, they don't go out, and kids learn a lot when it's not mandatory

practice. Oh, no, when you're playing shinny or, well, road hockey is a good one, man. That allows you to be creative and there's nobody watching. I mean, you make a mistake on pond hockey or road hockey. You get razzed by your buddies, but that's about it. Yeah, yeah, and it doesn't matter if you're not in your position, right? And like I said, the shinny in and just free skating, them kids go out, and you put 30 kids out, we do the Christmas party here for the minor hockey in Dewberry on Saturday,

and they uh that's what they did there was 30-some kids out there and they just went for four or five hours you can't teach a lot of them their edges and stuff i mean they just got to go have fun and they're learning without even knowing it like they all come in just lathered but they uh they were all a little better by the time they were done it just looked neat you know to watch their progression right well and have fun with it yeah that's a big thing on it right like i don't know i can't speak for yourself but for me growing up i mean on the farm we just went out the dugout every and if it wasn't the dugout then dad'd be flooding the old home on rink because it was all naturalized so we're just constantly at the rink constantly on the skates because mom would boot us out of the house

what do you go do you yeah stick a net out there and create some stupid game and compete until your ears fall off and then you come in and get warm and go to bed and do it all over again yeah well we had lots of cows and horses so we do we do chores we do a lot tobogganer or whatever and then buddy worked at the rink for a long time so whenever we could go in with him we would and then yeah street hockey or and then brothers we ended up fighting more than probably anything, right? You know, two gangs up one one. You enchant?

Yeah. David's the other one, yeah, there was some good ways. Well, yeah, I've been saying a chance. Man, this was like three months ago. I didn't even realize you guys had a third brother. Yeah. Because he never, well, I shouldn't say that. You can tell me this.

Did he play for Dubbery at some point? And I just didn't know it. Yeah, he played when he was 17, 18, I think. And then he kind of left to go work and then went traveling for a while and then come back. And actually, the Saskilda put a, ruling of like 10 guys or nine guys we had to have on the ice otherwise you got fine and we went to lashburn and we were short one so we dressed him and he didn't have equipment so he was using like eric winesses who used to play and he just all as he did we're like just do the drills

like we're doing easy stuff horseshoes there's only there's only nine of us like it's easy we're going to be played out so just do what we do and he's done them all before but he hadn't skated in i don't know like six seven years skates are too big so all he did was go up and down like in between the red and blue, taking horrible slap shots at the boards, and then would go back the other way. I'm sure the guys in Lashburn thought we just brought in this retard to go ballistic on somebody, but then Bryce Goldsmith ended up showing up to give us 10, so we undressed David halfway through the first because at least we had our guy.

We never played a shift, Evis. It's funny that it happened at Lashburn. That was three years ago now. We were short, so I dressed every single one of my brothers came and played. And Jay, our oldest, he's at the time. I'm, so he would have been 40, and he hadn't played a competitive senior game in probably, I'm going to say 15 years. Yeah. But he still walks around and talks about it, right? It had a blast. We lost to Lashburn, and he had one horrendous giveaway. Good thing goal he made a save, right? And we razz him about that until this day, but that happened at Lashburn, too. We showed up.

Didn't have enough guys, so we had the opening line of all Numans. And three of them hadn't played in a few years, J.B. in the most at 15. I got to ask you about LN-A-H. Why on earth did you go to Quebec? We just, there was me and a buddy Justin O'Soucission, and them guys were calling, and they offered $1,000 a week,

and pay for everything just to come out there. So we said, oh, what the hell, we're young, we might as well go do something for a little bit. So then we went. We were actually planning Fort St. John before we left. Playing in Fort St. John. Yeah, they had a senior team up there, but we were working up there for one of my sponsors.

So they, them guys were, We just started playing that guy. I can't remember the guy's name from LaBelle, kept phoning and phoning and phony, and then we're like, fuck it, let's just go. Oh, it's just goal. Yeah. Luce system's a big man. That was pretty big, you know, not as big as a lot of guys out there.

Well, it's unofficially, its reputation is, it's the world's toughest hockey league. Yeah. Did you agree with that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's no way it's not. Yeah.

So what was playing in that league like? Because I can't, I only, I only got to play two games. I can't even, but in your two games. games, like, did they have tons of fans? Oh, yeah, packed. Packed. Packed. Like, 1,000 fans or, like, 10,000 fans?

No, like, I don't know. LaVelle must hold, like, 2,500 or something like that. Like a junior 18, probably, you know, for sure. Some of the barns are way bigger, but. Like playing at a bigger Civic Center, essentially. Yeah, yeah, and just packed right up, yeah. Yeah. And so, like, good hockey?

The first two lines are pretty good hockey players, but they can all fight. Well, I shouldn't say that. The first two lines are good hockey players and the other two lines are not. Other two lines are just there to give the fans a show. So what were you? Were you to talk to us? Well, we got there Wednesday and then on Thursday we got to skate that morning and then the guys like we're going to St. Hinesing, I think.

And so we go there and four of our tough guys like the big guys that you're in the room, like even in the dressing room, we're like, what are those guys doing here? You know, like they're massive. Anyway, so they're all out for suspensions. and then we start playing and I end up getting assist in like the third or fourth shift. So I thought, oh, that's pretty good because we're short. So we're kind of mixing up in three lines. And then there end up being kind of a melee and the two guys go to the box.

And then we're taking a draw and we're short-handed. So two of their guys jump on one of our guys, like our good guys. So our little coach, I don't even remember his name. I wasn't there long enough. He starts like losing his marbles. You know, somebody go. Somebody go. I was like, fuck, you know.

I'll make a good impression with the boys. I've been here for one day. I'll jump the bench. So I jumped the bench and took like two real hard strides and then their whole bench cleared and I thought, holy shit, right? So then I got into a fight with, I don't even, whatever the guy's name was

and then the guy of the penalty box grabbed me and we kind of like fought half in the penalty box and half out. So then I got suspended for three games just from the first one. So within a matter of moments you had two fights back to back? Yeah.

Am I listening to that correctly? You fought a guy and on your way to the penalty box. No, no. The guy out of the penalty box come because everybody's fighting. We weren't like done. It was just like it kind of broke up that last one. And then that guy left.

And then the guy in the penalty box grabbed me. And I was like, holy fuck. Here we go. So they let the guy out of the penalty box? No, he just opened the door. Like this is the same time like Link Gates is there. And he's got like 20 games and he's and it was like we hung out with Link a little bit. But he tried to fight a guy because they get paid per fight.

and he get paid per fight. Yeah, like you get paid and then you get paid for fight. Like lots of them guys. So you got a bonus for having two fights? I didn't because I just got my $1,000 a week. Okay. But the other guys that are there strictly for, you know, that get paid for fighting. So they make good money.

Anyway, so this guy wouldn't fight Gates. And Gates goes to the box, and this is in Thetford Mines. And he sprays him with water over top like the other guy does and then calls Gates kind of like a pussy or whatever. He loses his shit. jumps over the boards and starts chopping the guy, like, in the penalty box with a stick until he breaks it and he's trying to beat him up. So he got like 20 games, but like that's the kind of league it is. We played that same team that I jumped the bench. And I'm in a stands,

thank God. And our tough guys are all back and they just sit on the bench and we went out about 10 minutes before everybody, or like the team. And they warmed up. And then as soon as our captain said, yeah, they're good, then the tough guys all just skated across and warm up. And then they brawled and there's like guys literally holding guys against the glass that are in the stands holding guys as guys are punching them you know so they they the reps aren't there so nobody gets kicked out because they don't know like where to start them guys got suspended later on but so then they they go for about three minutes and one of their guys slashes our goalie so the guy hits them and then they're they send guys off the bench and I'm thinking oh they're going to go down to

like the scrum in front of the net. They didn't. They just skated over to our bench and then they went again. This feels like slap shot. It basically was, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I played that game. Then once I got suspended or whatever, I come back and played, I can't even remember.

And there was this pretty big guy on the other team. And I was like, holy man, I was telling the decision, there's no way I want to go near him. And they, so whatever, is the game's going on. There's a couple fights. And one of their guys jumps. one of our guys and then so our coach is like hey go tell that guy you'll fight he'll fight and i don't know any of the guys or if they're good or not right so i tell them we're going to go and try to get him to go off the draw and he won't go so then they're big guys like losing his marbles on the

bench and i'm like oh great you know like why can we just fought so they kick us out of the draw instead and uh the guy wins the drawback so i like f off towards our bench and then go up the wall and of course they pass me to pack well now the big guy's on there and he comes to obviously beat the shit. I mean, he comes at me and I'm thinking, oh, shit, you know. So I'm going to cross-check this guy in the face, because this is my only hope. And I go to cross-check him and he blocks it with a stick. And I thought, oh, fuck, right? Like, I'm in trouble now. So then I fake go to do it. And as he goes to block, then I drop my shit and just start punching him. And he gets a cut, like, he was bleeding pretty good, actually. Like, I did really well. But as we're laying on the

ground, when he landed on me, he broke my collarbone, like when we fell down. And then he just kind of picks me up and then punches me in the face, like, and I had to come home because I had to come get surgery, but he, uh, like, I could push this spot on my head for like three or four months. I swear it was like bruised or like indented from this guy. Yeah. So that was my two games in that league. Did you ever go, man, I want to go back then? No, no, it was fun, like a lot of good guys, but it was, uh, it's, it's, it's, all I can ever think of is, uh, is Marasty going over there. Yeah, I talked to him. Yeah, we talked, and that's, because I play with Maracity in Battleford. Oh, yeah, okay, yeah.

So he's like, what are you doing here? This is way different, right? He says, I know, because we used to fight quit, not me and him, but like we were on the same line. So there'd be lots of times where both of us would be fighting at once. He obviously did the most fighting. Like that was his job. He was tough, tough, right? And not only tough, just he was tough because he couldn't knock him down or out really, right?

And that's when guys are really tough and dangerous when you can. They're scary. Yeah, because you can't hurt him. You watch the videos of Marasty and, you know, I, what is it? 50%, 60%, he takes a lot of punches. And then is smiling and says, give me some more. And then carries on. And if you're a big guy, you're like, I can't imagine being in that.

No, that's kind of how Domi was too, right? He was never as big as then. And Probert could just punch him in the face over and over again. And he just like, okay, let's keep going. Well, you're exhausted now and he's ready to keep going. You've seen the underworld of hockey, which is the Quebec lead, right? And what do you think watching the NHL now when Joe Thornton punches the goalie, what was that two weeks ago, three weeks ago, and the world loses its crap?

I love that he did it. Oh, I love that he did it too. I think that if you're going to play that game and you're going to come running into their piles and be mad, you've got to expect to get punched. It happens in senior. It happens everywhere where people are in outrage. I mean, we just played Wainwright the other day. That's where I got spent as a coach.

And this, Trent hits this guy. and I thought it was pretty clean, but the ref was giving him a two minutes or whatever, or two and ten, as the guy gets up, he, like, starts punching Trent, and another guy comes in there and starts punching Trent, so Trent finally gets pissed off,

drops his gloves, and starts throwing and beating this guy up all the way to the ground. Then everybody's mad at Trent because he beat up the guy that was punched him, the guy got a roughing before the whistle, and a roughing after the whistle, and Trent got five and ten, they're like, why did Trent do it?

I was like, well, because the other guy can't punch him in a face. It just doesn't, you know, and that's the same thing with that. Thornton thing there people are mad because he punched him when he was coming at him it's like don't go out Joe and he won't punch you in the face in if you just stay in your fucking mat you know but I don't we were playing out point a couple weeks ago and uh it was a decent game it was a decent game and then we got five five on threes against us

in the second period along now anyone who's played home on I'll all agree at times we uh you know I've done some dumb things but we got two hits to the head too intense Guys go to the box for what I would argue was a very clean check. And then our guy gets elbowed to the face, visor off, bleeding from the eye, two-minute elbow. Yeah. Yeah. You can imagine I was excited. Well, I don't know.

That's whatever. This isn't about roughing, but I mean. Oh, no, no, no. It's crazy. I should point out, I'm not trying to rag on the rafts, right? I mean, that's kind of what it seems. They got a tough job, man. Right?

I don't think I can. can handle being a ref. I'd ref wreck tournaments. When we do the dusty man, I'll do a couple games and having enough guys on the bench who just rag on you. Like, yeah, just leave me alone. Just coming out and drop the puck. Leave me alone. Like, I mean, but some of it's self-inflicted too. I agree with you 100%. From both refs and players, right? I'll be the first to say I self-inflict a lot on myself. I have a big mouth at times and that can get you in trouble, right? Yeah. But the problem is when you see this, it's like playing a team. If you see them enough times you get a hate on for the same old shit and I think that some refs come in the same way where

they're like oh there's Kurt whatever I'm gonna give it to them no matter what like there's certain refs that come out and uh when I'm as soon as they find out there's some guys are like oh you miles I'm not even play because like last year I had I don't know 50 minutes or whatever it was but there was five or six games that I had zero five or six games that I have two and when the same raft I had 16 or 18 every time so either every other ref doesn't know or one's just You know, so it goes both ways It goes both ways I'm more aggressive too

Because I'm like, okay, enough's enough So then I get vocal or worse And then It's tough because I mean They're just guys like me and you So if I play Whoever And we have a little spat

Next game I'm going to remember that And as a ref I don't see how I mean you're supposed to be impartial You're supposed to be right Like we laugh about it But if some guys A complete moron to you

not saying you were but I'll speak to myself here I'll throw myself on the bus I've said some pretty stupid crap I try and apologize now every game if I do stupid crap trying to get smarter with old age but in the beginning I always thought I was right and so I'd say some pretty unintelligent things to refs and get booted from games whenever you've probably seen it firsthand and uh you know if I was that ref the next time I walk in the building it'd be hard to let well I mean you're paid to let it go but at the time. All it takes is me to say one dumb thing and it's going to flutter up everything that I've said to you forever. Well, I agree. And I think part of it is that they'll let some stuff slide that maybe they allow me to slash you because there, and then it just fires you up and it escalates

the point where it's like, son of a bitch, we're back to the same spot now, right? You know, that's where it gets bad. We're not speaking from experience whatsoever. Yeah, and I'm not saying that we're bad or that I've been good to reps because I have. We just had, we were just laughing. We played Dewberry on the weekend. You know how many penalty minutes we had in that game? Six. Six.

I know, because the other coach come and told me, he's like, look how good everybody was. And I said, was it like that type of game? They said, well, there was some stuff, but there was no big deal. There was no some stuff, but the refs just let it go. Yeah, which was fine. Yeah, which. If it's both ways, nobody gives a shit. As long as nobody's getting like two-handed or whatever, anything bad.

I mean, if you step on a stick and get a trip in or you trip somebody, oh, well, because it goes back the other way and they have, like, nobody gives a shit about that. It's just the stuff that, you. you know, starts the aggression of the whole rest of the... I can safely say in, this will be year eight, I think, of playing Dewberry. We have never, ever had six penalty minutes. And you know what?

The game before we had zero penalty minutes. Oh, you guys are on fire? I don't know. We have not been like that. I don't know if we're on fire or not. We've been short-handed, so we're just stressed, boys. We can't be in the penalty box. Yeah.

Wow. Ah, cool. Dirty rabbit hole of podcasting. I want to flip over. Well, actually, no, it's a lot. I want to know about the Allen Cubs. Because you played, like, how did you go from, like, when I hit, you, you went over to Junior A. Yep.

You're Chuck Wagoning, right? And from talking to you, that's what you wanted to do. So the Chuck Wagoning, the history of your family, that all makes sense. How did you go from playing Junior A to a couple games in the Quebec League to playing Senior in Dewberry, which is no knock on Dewberry, but still senior in Dewberry, to playing in Allen Cups and winning an Allen Cup. We, uh, well, I played, like, when I come home and then got my shoulder operations, I was good for a little bit.

I played with Wayne Wright wrestlers. Like, they had that team and they played Viking and whatever, and we lost in playoffs, but I hadn't played for a full year. Were they considered double A then? Were they pulling you up, or did you go play? No, I didn't play anywhere else. I was just playing with them. Like, because I had a couple years off where I didn't play because of my shoulder.

Oh, okay. I got my operation when I come home, so I didn't play that whole, started the year, well, that's the year that Dubray didn't have a team. So I didn't play at all. And then I went and played one game with, I think Chance got pulled up from Junior B to play with Wayne Wright, maybe, until he got me to go. And so they asked if I would or whatever, and I said, sure.

Because I'd played there a long time ago, right? Or like four or five years. Yeah. Or no, I guess to be more than that midget and junior B. But so then I went there and I played one or two games, and then I come back and play playoffs with them. So then that's, I kind of got started back into hockey again, and then Dubry started their team.

And then whatever year we won the Ellen Cup, 07 or 9 or something like that. 09. Sutsi called me right before Chances' wedding, and he's like, hey, can you come down or plan? And we're short. Guys to play Sylvan Lake, I think it was? No, it was Rocky Mountain House in Sylvan.

So I said, sure. I got three goals, and we like shit-pumped Rocky bad. And Sutsi come in and just, like, chewed us out at it. or, you know, because I was pretty excited. I got called. And I thought, yeah, he'll be happy on the power play. Got a goal. Everybody's happy, you know?

And then he comes in and we're up three or four rip, and he's like, you said, like, just loses it on us because we were playing bad, right? It's like, you'd see it in this league too. You get up by a couple, and then all of a sudden everybody's goal hungry. Nobody plays their position. Bad habits. Yeah. Leave their goalies out to drive and defensemen.

And anyway, so I got three goals and thought, oh, this was pretty good. So then he called me and he wanted me to stay more full-time. or whatever with them. But it started because one of the linesmen in Vermillion was at his barn, boozing with Setsi, and they were talking about hockey. And he asked who's the, you know, he said, well, you ref that league all the time. He said, who's the big guy, like, strong, doesn't give a shit. And he said, well, you need Kurt then.

Because he didn't want to finesse, because they have that. So they wanted this big dummy to come in, basically. And he asked who it would be. So then he said, Kurt. so then that's how I ended up going. That's how you ended up going up going? Yeah, they were at a bullsale, Sotsey's bullsail, and they were just in his barn drinking, and Sutsi asked.

Have you bought that Linesman of beer since then? No, yeah, we drank. We'll be drinking Sutsi's barn after later. But yeah, they ended up being pretty cool, like in the end because I did a good shit. You played off and on now for them ever since then, right? Yeah, every year. Well, except for the years I did shoulder operations, like on this other one and stuff.

Well, that year that you guys won, that was one year I missed, and then one other year I got hurt at the end of the year, so I didn't play for either Bentley or Innesville. What's the Allen Cup like? It's awesome. Yeah, it's kind of a crapshoot though. Like some of them times, some teams that we lost to, if we could have played a seven-game series,

it probably would have been different. But I mean, even last year's one, we battled to get there. We lost to Rosedown by like a goal, and then that Ontario team that won the year before by two goals because they scored an empty netter. So we battled all the way through, and then we win and beat them by a goal, like in the sem—

So we played five games and six nights. That's a lot. It's just too much. At this age, especially, like, maybe if I was 22, it wouldn't be as big a deal, but them guys are good. Like, everything's so fast. You're exhausted by the time you get there, and that NISFEL teams probably a little bit—

not all the guys, but some of them are a little bit older, but still good, but still five and six is ridiculous. Five and six at 20 playing junior A is too much. Yeah. It's not as bad as if every team does it, but because they don't, like they played two games. Lecombe played two games, had two days off, and then played two games. So then they were just a little fresher.

They had probably a better team anyway, but we would have, you know, they ended up being by two or three goals we lost by, but they scored two empty natters. So our goalie was unreal, and he stood on his head, but that's why he was there, right, that Yorkie and just how it goes sometimes, I guess. I've been in the finals every time I've went. Yeah, and how many times are you gone, though? I think that's five or four four or five.

Competed in four Allen Cups and one at once. Yeah. And been to the finals all four. Yeah. Pardon the interruption, folks. Here's your IHD innovative question of the week. If Kurt could compete in one other event or a different event at the Calgary Stampede,

what would it be? If you hear the answer, send it to me via email Sean Newman podcast at gmail.com or reach out Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, or if you're a go-getter, just track down somebody who knows my number and shoot me the answer via text. This week's prize is $50 gift card

to Three Trees, Lloyd Minster, the restaurant. Huge shout out to Jim Spenrath for reaching out and being awesome and giving us a gift card to give away here with the IHD innovative question of the week. So stop in and support local guys, all right. Now back to the show. What are you thinking where the Allen Cups going? Because they keep talking right now.

They're talking about leagues folding. Well, I think what they need to do is stop having a league throughout the year because that's where it gets costly for them teams, you know, and nobody comes to watch when it's only two teams in the league. And then it's the same thing. You have trouble like it would be like Meta Lake going to Two Hills or even wherever. They don't get a following to go back and forth. So when Rosedown drives all the way to Innsvale, who's coming?

Like, not as many people as you would have normally if it's a half hour away or 15 minutes, right? Right. So if you could get a bigger fan following, it would be better. But they just need to kind of abolish that and have them play in whatever league they want and allow them teams in every province to just make a team and just build them like they do for the world juniors or whatever, or the Olympics, right? So you're saying Team Alberta versus Team Saskatchewan versus Team BC. And then they can all bid on who gets the team. So if Stony plane wants this team, then they put out a bid to get it.

And then that's where they have their exhibition games or whatever, or all the tryouts and or Inge Fail or whoever it ends up being. Because right now the current system is just broken and everybody's going kind of tits up because it costs a lot of money. And it's not for the players. It's just for everything else. It's everything. I mean, hockey alone in all them places costs a lot.

So, yeah, I don't know. That's what I would do. And then you'd have a true, like, an actual national championship. National championship of senior hockey. Yeah, because you'd take your best 25 guys from every team you want to pick from every, as long as you're playing in a league. You could try out for the team essentially. Yeah, absolutely.

I don't mind that. Heck, the tryouts would sell out. Yeah, I think so too, actually. Yeah, yeah, near black and white games and whatever. Like, you'd have some, I don't know, I think that you'd get a good following and you'd end up bringing more people in to watch it too because if you have three from Dewberrycom and then all of a sudden you have three from Wainwright

and two from Daysland, you'd be bringing people from every community to go watch that or to be a part of it rather than just have your normal fans from your base that you have, right? Yeah, well, yeah, no, I haven't thought of it like that before. Yeah, that's an interesting idea. You're the first person to ever tell me that.

Okay. Well, you're a guy who's competed in it so much, right? You've seen the progression of it and where it's not started per se, but in the last 10 years of where it's gone. Yeah, well, some of the teams we played, well, even Southeast, they only played three games, and then they would meet us in the finals of the Allent Cup, like the first year we won.

And we had played, I think they have a 20-game season, but then we play three, two rounds of three-game playoffs, and then we played two rounds of seven-game playoffs, and both went to, well, one went seven-game. one went six with Fort Sask and Stoney. And then we took off and then we played five for the McKenzie Cup. And so it's like, holy shit. Before we even get there, we played more than most teams play 10 years.

Well, some of them guys played five games for the year. And we played 25 to get there, you know, not even including season. Yeah, and any hockey player knows, that's just the war on your body. Yeah. By the time you play 25 games, even if you never get touched, just the amount of games and everything else. And as you say, you get older. As I mean, senior hockey isn't for the 15-year-old. No, no, it's different.

I couldn't have played in the league now when I was 15, but it's still, yeah, I don't know. We beat Provost out. Sorry, we were in Provost and we beat Inisfail. They were still, it was the last year before they went to AAA. Like they played in that league, but they still come to, maybe it was two years before. but they, we beat them in Provost at one o'clock in the afternoon. We played and beat them for the A side. And then, uh, Jen, we just come in.

We're celebrating and just cracked the beer. And then Sutsi calls and he's like, hey, can you guys get to Red Deer right now? Like, well, fuck. Literally just played because they were in the McKenzie Cup at that time. So then he said, screw it. We just wrapped all our shit and strings and whatever. So it would dry and we drove from Provost to Red Deer. And then warm up was over and they undressed.

two guys and they took our equipment in and we got dressed. You enchance? Yeah, me enchanced and we went and played. So that was our break off after playing the second best hockey you can play here. We went and played the best hockey you could play two and a half hours later or three hours later. What's the best barn you've played in your senior career? I don't know.

I always was partial to Dubray's old little barn. Like the low roof, it completely changed the game because guys couldn't just flick it out. You can't do anything. It was also, and that's for me that was never fast. I've always liked because it was more of a, it was a lot more grind. So you get in the corners and you go, right, like on the walls. And I always, I always really like that. You're going to tell me, of all the places you've gone.

You said in senior hockey, yeah. Okay, well, not in senior hockey then. Junior, anywhere. In junior, my favorite barn was Weyburn. Wayburn? Yeah. Why is that? I don't know.

It was just always cooler. like not like the temperature it was just the perfect size you know I always like Battlefords too but we were there all the time but there was like five or six rinks that were just that same size of rank not the big hot buildings not huge ice surfaces or not too I don't know

there was just Weyburns I really liked and I like Battlefords and then Flim Flons was the other those are my three barns that I really like. Flimflon's freaking cool yeah yeah I like Flimflon yeah I didn't get to play Speaking of myself, I only played for LaRange for a month. We got to play in Flim Flon.

Flinflon was a lot of fun. Yeah. That was some fans, man. Yeah. Yeah, no, I always like Flin Flon. Weaver, too. And I don't know, maybe partly besides just the actual playing was the fans. I mean, Wayburn, they're almost in the penalty box with you,

and shit's going down. And flimflon's the same way when they're throwing shit at you. Kind of sleep was always that way. I mean, they threw shoes at us and bottles, and just hanging down. dummies of some of us over the wall like on a noose and shit. So it was always entertaining. So you always enjoyed them barns more?

Yeah, they're right on top of you. Yeah, the atmosphere was right there and crazy. Honestly, I hated the old Dewberry barn. Lots of it was awesome, but I hated it because you just, like, I couldn't go anywhere. Like, somebody was on me. But the best part of it was, and I just have fond memories in Game 6. It helps we won, but regardless, game 6, just the fans were on top. top you there. Building was so full. They were like right on top you. Like I'm looking over my

shoulder and some guys just like yelling at me, right? Newman, you're going to die. All right. Okay. Yeah. And you don't know if it's from the ice or the guys that are over top of the... Have you got to play in Metal Lake yet? Ah, no, I've never played in Metal Lake Smart. Oh. It's a bigger, warmer ice surface, but they got great fans. Do they? Like, I feel like it's a thousand, but that's my Sask Delta brain talking so maybe it's 700 but they heckle you yeah oh yeah and they're at buildings packed we went there um right before Christmas last year and uh I don't think they could you know they're probably like home on who like who is this and then after the game guy came in and you know I love senior hockey and all the case of beer and uh whatever they brought us whatever in

they brought some food in actually because we've gone to overtime I think that game and um said oh man that was awesome guys like you don't understand understand next time you're here this place will be packed. I'm like oh okay whatever and then we went to game six with them in playoffs and the couple of them went to triple overtime right and the place was just walled to wall. It's the most fans I've seen in the sask alpha like not a like had several packed barns but to pack that barn you got to have a ton of people it was nuts and blast I'm excited to go back there like that's that's what you live I'm speaking as a hockey guy. As a hockey guy, I always said if I ever could make the NHL, which obviously I was

far off, but if ever did, man, for a few years it would be fun to play in a Canadian market or somewhere where they got crazy fans. Because it's just like you don't have to get up for that. No, no, no, no. They get you up right away, right? Whether they're, whether they're for you or against you. Doesn't matter. People lose that all the time when they're screaming from the stands thinking they're affecting, but some of us feed off of that shit, you know. But people screwed up on on back when we won a bunch, or even sometimes now, but if they just leave me alone and just let me go do my thing and not really get after me,

then usually it's easier for everybody, and I don't do as much because I'm not into the game because I just kind of go around. But when everybody's after you and the fans are after you, and you're like, also you just pissed off at everything, and then you have that little extra energy, you have a little extra ambition? I don't know, but that's the way I've always been with it.

Oh, no, yeah. I probably don't get cat called as much as you do, but I do get cat called in certain barns. That's a lot of fun. Yeah, I enjoy it. I like it. They lose their marbles. So are you, when are you planning on playing hockey tell?

I don't know. I keep saying it's my, I got one of my biggest sponsors that I've ever had because I kept playing hockey. Really? When I went to Innisfield, there was this boots and, no, honky tonk at hockey that was going on,

and Banford was singing, and then Sutsi was having this Q&A with him and Berkey and so then Souti calls me up on stage and we do this whole thing in front of all these guys and I always hate that crap because I don't, like, I mean, we're there for hockey and then he's kind of bringing up the wagons

but he always, Sotty's really good for that kind of stuff. Anyway, so we come off the stage and Kent Storm and the guy that one's versatile was right there and I think he had a few drinks and we just bullshit with him a bit and he's like, no, call me on Monday, so then that's what I did and that's how I got my big major sponsor. It started off smaller and now he's,

my big one the last couple of years, right? So then he kind of talked me into playing because the Allen Cup was last year. And then my wife pushes me to play because she knows I'm going to drink just as much beer with the guys, whether I'm playing. It's like, you're just going to get fatter or kind of deal. And most guys are the opposite. They're like, yeah, right. You know, my wife's telling me to stay hunt.

My wife's like, no, like, go skate, go, go play, right? You know what you want to. And it's never been that I don't want to. It's just. And then sometimes with the Mustang hockey, it's a different group. and I like everybody, especially off the ice, but sometimes on the ice, there's stuff that goes down and you're just a little disappointed so you're not. Like hockey kind of sucks by the end, and then you go back to Innisfail, and there, it doesn't

matter if you're taking somebody's spot, they're just ecstatic to have you. Everybody, right? High five and Jack, they don't know you, it doesn't matter, they're all just pumped. So it's different. It's actual hockey, and you're going to war, and it's only about who's there to play, and it doesn't matter anything else, and they're all on the same page. And it's unreal hockey, right?

Like, it's really good hockey. I mean, we lost out here two years ago. And to Wainwright, maybe. And I didn't have a bunch of points in playoffs. And then we lose out, and I said, that's it, I'm done. And then they called me to go, and they were playing Stoney. And we lost in five games to Stoney, but I was leading the league in goals and assists, like in both categories.

And the other series were all swept. So, like, they should have guys that are just, but I was the high, I scored one or two goals in every game that we played. So it was, it's just different hockey. And these guys here, of course, are like, well, why couldn't you do that for us? Well, do you know what I'm playing there? It's actual structure. There's no, like, it's just different hockey, right? Yeah.

Well, I got to, guys rag on me all the time about it, but I got to go play for Kennersley for my old junior coaches out there. He was coaching their senior A team and senior A provincial Saskatchew. from the side, which is obviously different than the Alberta side, but I went and played with them. Jeez, that was the year after we beat you guys. And I got hurt second, or first shift, the second game I played at second round against Rosedown. Guy skated up to me on opening shift and need me in the thigh and dropped me like a sack of bricks. But wife always tells me your, your mindset coming out of there was so much different than dealing with Saskalta thing. It's just different, right? You talk about going into, well, I only showed up to three, four practices and played in two games every time you came, just like you said, right?

He ran almost like a pro team, which is crazy to think for senior hockey. Well, that's what Sutsi always says. He tells you, he'd be like, this is like, he said, this will be run better than most minor pro teams that people go to. And he says, I know, I've been to wherever, right, Sutsi's been to a lot of places. And, yeah, they just, everybody's excited. I have a little trouble because you come back and you try to run the same, I don't know, same programs or same breakouts or same whatever. And guys have trouble with it.

You know, it's like the old minor hockey warm-ups for goalies or you just shoot to warm them up and then you go there and Satsi's like, no, you shoot to score because by the time you shoot your first puck, you don't want to be practicing there, you know, because it's game time now. He said the goalies will warm up themselves and it's like, you know, you tell guys to keep your shots down and you go there and Satsi's, I'm standing in front of the night. He's like, get your shots up, you know, head high.

Everything's head high. So then you go, you're like, that's the complete opposite. Or the other one for D-Men. And I always give our shit. They're all like, you've got to come all the way back, and you've got to be open for longer. And so that's the opposite, right? And all that whole league's like that.

You get the puck. And as soon as RD's got the puck, it's your job to find me, and you just fuck off, right? Like, you're gone. And here, it's like, nope, come back a little further. A little bit. We need more time. And then it's another D-to-D.

But the other way, it's, I don't know. There's just a bunch of little things that irks you when you come back here, which makes that league's way harder, like a way better league, but it's almost easier to plan. Well, the structure of it. Absolutely the structure of it. You're the caliber of hockey players you're playing with too, right? Like everybody there, like when you go down the list of guys off of pretty much every team, there's very few even junior A players. Yeah, yeah, like I'm one of the lower ones. And it'll be the odd junior B maybe, but the rest of it's all guys that played somewhere. somewhere, just come back from Europe, playing the NHL.

So what we both know is if you've played higher hockey than even Junior A, the structure that's already put in on your life and playing, because I mean, Junior A already has that structure. It just gets amplified every level you go up, right? Yeah. And so, well, half that stuff is second nature to most of those guys. Yeah, I know. I played with some good hockey players too.

Well, like Kevin Smith, I mean, he only didn't stay in the show because you got a puck in the eye so he lost one. But fucking he shoot and smart and strong. I had Ken Stanforth in last week, and he played with Kevin Smith in, oh, listeners, he's going to kill me here. Moose John, I think.

Yeah, I think Moose John's first video. Yeah, yeah. And I was laughing because I remember when he played for Dewberry and me hacking him in the leg and I was up to his belly button and he told me to, I can't remember his choice words, but he said a few things and I was young, and I wouldn't have wanted to get in a tussle with that man.

Like, he's a giant. Yeah, he's a big dude. He can shoot. I think the first game he had played, he hadn't played all year. And then he come across, and we were playing you guys. And I gave it to him ready to slot early in the second period, and he, like, went to do his normal. Like, he was usually money from there, and he, like, fanned on it.

Then everybody started razz with him. Like, they were like, oh, yeah, you're garbage. We're way better than you. I was like, don't do that. You're just, don't poke this bear. And then he, like, then he let it up. Yeah, that was probably against us, actually.

Yeah, I really think it was, you guys. No, but him, there's a bunch of good players. Like, I don't know, that Daryl-a-plant was really good. He played in Detroit for a while, and then Travis Brigley. Like, they were my linemates. I literally didn't have to do anything. I'd just go to the front of the net because they didn't really want to, and then they'd pass it around, and I'd clean up the shit in front

or, you know, get to an open spot. It was, like, it's just neat because they were, you don't have to worry. In Saskilton now, it's like you've got to cover, for everybody and I think that's where you lose, you know, and then somebody's trying to cover for me when I mess up and it's just a domino effect for everybody out there, you know? You can be as structured as you want.

It just doesn't, as soon as that structure's broke, it seems like it's really broke for a while and nobody can get back on the track until a whistle kind of deal or line change, but... I think it's pretty crazy, you know, speaking of Sask Delta, like the talent level in it has increased drastically over the last... Well, probably part of it has to do with the Border Kings

not being a part of or folding. All that talent's dispersed in the league. Like, it's probably the most talent in the league's ever been. Yeah, I agree. We were actually talking about, we skated last night, and we were talking about it. They brought up, like, I know we've, I think we've lost three games and three in overtime now, maybe. Okay. So, PBs, I think, was by two goals.

Then every other game, obviously, overtime, and the other two were all by one. Wayne Wright beat us by four. But if you could have had, like, guys like, like, guys like, like Shane, me, Tyson at 23 years old or 25 years old again, we'd win all them one goal games. Like just by, we were pretty good back then, like you said, you know what I mean? And then have everyone but one. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I heard you guys shit the bed for six minutes there. So that made it. We made it interesting for everybody. But I, so I think that there's still, I think that teams are deeper. Like, there's more of them now, you know, like there's just more. teams that are dangerous like that, they,

it'll be a better race for the top eight now. Well, I think it was last year. There was us that went undefeated, but then I think Wainwright, and after that, the other six teams were within three points of each other. Well, we lost the last two games. I think we lost one in overtime and one just normal.

Maybe three. I think my last three games, we lost two, one to Nielberg. We lost an overtime or a shootout to L point, and then we lost one other. So we were sitting third, and then we got dropped to seven-third, whatever it was. Yeah, yeah, that's how tight it was.

Yeah. And it's never been like that before. No, no, no. And I think, like, there's more teams in the league, but it's you, there's more depth than a lot of the teams. Because not to, like, harp on, like, Kid Scotty. And when I was, like, midget playing them, they were a good team while they were winning the leagues and stuff back. PV won the league way back in the day. Kid Scotty won the league way back in the game.

My first three years in the league, PV was had a really good team. Like, we went to war. there was a couple brothers there that were really good and, you know, like just, just have Smiths, maybe. But anyway, the league, I think, on a whole, there's a lot better teams. And I, you lose Vermillion and Nealberg, but then they kind of jumped into some other teams to allow, you know, which they should, and no offense to kids got even, but they're probably another team if they could jump in and fill in a couple spots on some of them other teams

that would make everybody deeper as well. We haven't played Maidstone, so I don't know what they're like, but I just mean them bottom teams if you think nobody wants to lose. It's crazy kids, Scott, he can't have a great team. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what their deals they used to, you know. And it seems like they have new players all the time, so it can't be like. Well, they're just so close to Lloyd.

Well, and I mean, you could argue even relatively close to Vermilion. So they're right smack in the middle of, I don't know. Somebody from Kid Scott, he knows the answer probably. But, I mean, my oldest brother used to play there. Actually, my two oldest brothers used to play there. growing up because Hillman didn't have a team when, I mean, Hillman took a hiatus from 91 or 92 until 2008. There was nothing going on senior-wise, right? So lots of people went playing Kid Scotty.

Just proximity to Lloyd makes sense. Well, yeah, you're right central to all of them. I mean, Mar-Wain's team's not there, so you could realistically draw from there. Yeah. And PV didn't have a team for a while, but that Vermillion team kind of dispersed to Dewberry Kid Scotty PV, I think. Yeah, there's a guy playing for PV. the other night. I think there's a couple of them there because we played them and, uh, yeah, I think there was a couple there. But still, yeah, they, I don't know what, uh.

I got one other hockey question before I want to, I actually want to talk about chuck wagons. And I feel like some people are probably wearing and going, like, can we get some chuck wagon talk yet? Why did you never play for the border kings? Uh, I don't know, border kings never asked me to play once. Never once was I asked to come to the border kings. I played against them lots and nobody ever phoned and said, hey, you want to come here? So, you never thought, you never thought of, you never thought of trying out and start a year and just going to playing. I tried to play in Lloyd for AA, and they wouldn't let me. They said I had to try Wainwright and Coal League or whatever, all that stuff.

Yeah. And then when I made the team there, then they said I still couldn't come. And then the junior B team, I can't remember who was coaching then. It sounded like nope. So then I just signed with Wainwright, you know, I peed with him. And then after we beat Lloyd out, then they, I can't remember who was coaching then. But anyway, they come right over and said, hey, you want to come here next year? You know, I was like, well, you guys just told me to F off for a whole year.

And now you're saying, so then when I went out to junior and then come back, and I just had no interest to, because it seemed like the same boys club that was always here. I know there's different guys and whatever, but they just, I was never an interest for them. And so I just stayed away. And once I started playing with Bentley. Well, no, and once you start playing with Bentley, it makes complete sense to me why you never come. Like, why would you ever switch back? Yeah, and they just, they never asked, the guys in Fort Sassful me a couple times.

But yeah, they just, I don't know. And when I went to Bentley, only Sutsi wanted me, right? Like their GM was like, no, he went around and just found guys that got retarded amount of points and would bring them in. And Sutsi finally got control back that year that I went there because he left for a couple of years because he's like, no, you're just bringing all talent and no workhorses, right? So I don't know. And I wasn't the only workhorse on a team. I just added that last piece to it, I guess, for us to win that year. You were a Satsi player.

Yeah, right, just go grind, don't give a shit, all swelled up and chopped and just go, it doesn't matter. Right? Since he likes to punch people, so. Let's switch to Chuck's here. I mean, we're already an hour in. I haven't even talked about Chuck wagging. We're hardly anyways. But I'm curious, when did you, like, obviously as a kid, you're on the road all the time with your father and your family, for that matter.

Um, when did you start driving? Like, was that a thing from like a really young age or did that happen, you know, later on? Not third breads. I started driving like work teams and stuff like that. I don't know. I'd have been like that 12. My daughter said she started driving now. I got her team in miniatures that we started with. And she said she read somewhere that I was 10. So I don't know where she read that in a book. But anyway, uh, so I'd have been around that same age. I never really liked riding. My brother's chance and Dave both really like to. ride and I always like to drive. So then Buddy bought me a team and we just kind of would break them and then he'd break the most of them and I'd drive them when I get home from school, hauled dales from fields and then

he'd sell them and get a different team and just kind of, that's how I started. Where was your first amateur race? Well, it had been in Dubury because we have to have a qualification runoff to make it to the association and because Buddy was already over there,

I didn't race into CPCA like Chance and them guys all started on this site. um and dad but uh so it was in dubury i raced we had a runoff qualification when i was 16 and then i qualified and then never went back i guess your first year you win rookie of the year yes no didn't win rookie no i never won rookie i won it in calgary but i never won it as a um as a w psalm there was other guys that come in that were uh well i don't know like would have been 30 whatever than driving ponies forever and bought outfits and whatever and they come in They won it.

So what was your first? Okay, well then that changes the question. What was your first year like that? It was up and down. Because how old were you when you first start? 16, yeah. What? Yeah, like 16 was when I qualified, right?

So I don't know what I have to look to see how many years I've been doing it now, but at 16, at 16 you were driving pro? Yeah. At 16 year old you were driving pro. Yeah, like I already qualified yet. you can't be younger than 16 to do it. So this sport, you're allowed to go, I did not realize, you're allowed to go from 16 to 65.

Yeah, as long as you can, you get, yeah, this legal driving age. And I think outriding, because I was 15 when I out rode first. Without a permit, without a sanctioning or nothing. Like, that was a, I mean, I hated outriding. I still did it. I won with Dad in Pinocca and I rode for, like, Kelly, like all the big names I had rode for it at one time,

and not because I was good just because nobody else would at that point. And I just got it done, but I wouldn't be a guy that I'd call myself every time because I hated it. I was just to make a little extra money to pay for my own outriders. But I rode in the dash in Calgary. But it just... What do you hate about riding? I just never enjoyed it. Outriding is so...

Like, once the... Basically, I don't know, there's probably outriders that are mad, but once you get out of the barrels, it just is nothing. Like there's no, unless you're in trouble or behind, which is still just trying to catch your wagon. With wagon racing, because I drove so early, I got hooked on it so fast and it's so much more exciting. There's so much more going on. You're watching all the other drivers. You're waiting for your holes. You're waiting for, like, there's only certain parts of each race that you can take advantage to help yourself win or to do better over the week.

So there's just more going on. And maybe that's why I didn't like riding as much. like my you're supposed to be sanctioned to do them and I was I we come home because I had to do school still so I'd have to come home like on some weekends so the year before I sort of drive and I come home we were racing in left bridge and Bill McEwen come up to me and he's like hey you want to ride tonight I was like no I don't ride Bill like this is not an he's like well these other guys and he kind of complained about him He said you must ride lots. I said, I don't. I drive at home a little bit, but I don't ride. And he's like, yeah, right. And then he left.

And then he came back about a half hour later, and he's like, oh, here. And he gave me this little paper. And I was like, what's that? He's like, that's your slip. That's your permit. You can ride. I already paid for you. So I wasn't sanctioned.

It wasn't nothing. I go ride for, because Harvey Lear was driving for Bill. I got on this old horse of his. I lyle because I remember the horse. And I jumped kind of like half on the side of it in Dubray and then jumped over it and then jumped over it. And then was late by like a lot. And the next day was fine, but Buddy gave me shit because he didn't even know because it wasn't sanctioned. I wasn't supposed to be out there.

And I just never really liked it. But as far as driving, I always loved it. That's why it was 16. It would have been earlier, but they wouldn't let me start earlier. Because you have to wait a year because runoff's in the fall. So we argued that if I ran to a runoff as 15, I could race when I was 16 because I'd be that age. But I had to wait until I was 16 to compete against everybody to qualify and then run my whole next year. So how was that your first year?

The first day we went out, one guy had trouble with his wheel, like the steel come off it. So we were parked and ready to blow the horn, and then we didn't get to go so we come back in. How disappointing was that? We end up going, but we had to wait, right? So you're like all jacked up, you know, ready to rock, and then he comes on track and then he gives him a 12-minute so that you can always fix stuff. He couldn't fix a wheel anyway, but he could hook to another wagon. He didn't make it back. It was Mark Settling, and then we went out, had to go back in.

Now the horses are mad and everything because they're not used to that because usually when you go back in, it's time to go. So it was okay. And then the next day... How did you do? I end up second. Yeah, well, there's only three of us out there. Still?

Still good. Didn't get there. And then I think the next night, I tried to do what drivers do and they let their horses kind of like float around the top because you're going to run it over. And I did that, and I picked up. Quinn Dorchester, and I mean, I hammered him. He jumped together away, and I thought, oh, great, driving two days and already killed somebody

the whole way around and then waited for Dad to get in and whatever, but he wasn't dead. I barely hit him, but in my head it was like, I might as well ran him over with a semi, you know. But I don't know, it was a lot of up and downs, obviously, first year. It takes a while. Wagon Race is not like, you can't just do it. You know what I mean? Like, it's a lot of people, that's why a lot of them are born into it, I think, just because it's you either uh you just have to do it or live with it or grow up with it to make it a little

easier transition and then when you're young and you're kind of a rock star people are sending limos and you're going to bars and you're messing around right like uh drinking and people are just high-fiving you and taking pictures of you so you kind of live that life too right so then you don't concentrate on the wagon racing as much did that happen to you yeah maybe for a couple years yeah But I mean, yeah, later on, if I would have had my head on my ass earlier. What's the craziest experience then you've had Chuck Wagoning? Like, as, like, living the rock star lifestyle. I don't know.

I don't know, man. You just threw off, like, limo's coming to pick you up. Did that happen? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, the corrales used to sponsor me. You used to be the biggest bar in Grand Prairie, too. It's like an old Canadian tire, so they would send a limo down with, like, a couple of

bouncers and some of the shooter girls or whatever and then to try to entice other guys to get into the limo and then we'd all go there and then we'd get free tab I'd get a free tab and then the lim would take us back and whoever else wanted to. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I feel like you're holding out a little bit of information. That's basically it. Well, I was looking, you know, you're saying it takes a little bit of time.

If I read your stats correct, maybe you can crack me on this. I had read it took you 50, or, Cal, Cal, It took you 15 years to talk to crack the top three not to win to crack the top three Like in the world or do you mean in Calgary? Hmm it could be it could be I was starting to climb and then You for four years or five years you climbed and then you had to drop off and then you climbed again Yeah, well what happened was is that David and Chancer were driven so then a lot of my older horses went to them and then I started off fresh and I wasn't probably as ready for it as we thought I was probably.

You know what I mean? Yeah. So then when they take them consistent horses and the broke ones, and then they get to climb. They didn't climb or anything, but when you start, you need horses like that, right? And at that point, it was like

where you're going to start filter them one or two out over the next few years, and that's how it usually happens. How many horses do you have, like, that you race with? How many? Well, there's 63 third birds at my house right now. 63? Yeah, Josh Renick is running now,

So then he's got, I don't know what he owns now, maybe eight of them, I guess. Maybe nine now, right? He just bought him in the last little bit here. But yeah, there's 63. So it is an absolute full-time job of looking and finding new horses to come in and replace, essentially. Yeah, I think that's why we've been strong, especially the last few years, is that I have a good farm team system, basically, right? Like, I keep them.

There's lots of horses to come down the road and won't see. a race, but it's just so that they're ready for when they finally do. And some of the new horses go straight in. How many times in the truck wagon interviews do you use hockey references of... Lots. Yeah, I'll do lots. I'm always telling you know, it's like you can take the three best hockey players in the world, put them on a line, but if they don't work. Yeah, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. And wagon racing is the same thing. People think that if you don't go get Kentucky Derby winners, you don't have fast horses. But when you change the job, all of a sudden,

They're fast. There's lots of horses that I have that haven't won two races or one race, you know, at the racetrack. And there's horses that I got that made upwards of 700,000. And the horse that hasn't won a race will kick that other horse's ass all day long and away. So I'm curious, how do you scout horses? Like, do you watch video on them? Do you go to a ton of racetracks? do you or is this a secret you're not willing to tell no i uh i have a couple different trainers down south

in columbus nebraska as well as prairie metals iowa um we follow them all through prairie meadows in the circuit until they get there like in demoyans and then some of the horses i've looked at like i try to look at everybody's horses because they'll have them for a couple years especially in columbus so i try to get in their barns to look at as many as i can each year so that i know the horse for next year and then i'll look up at their stats and then try to watch a couple of videos but if I like the horses build and his disposition, then I'll buy them right there kind of deal. And I bought 16 this year's.

About 16 new horses. Is that a higher or lower year? That's probably, that'll be about average, especially the last few years. And how long does a horse stay in where they're race eligible or like where you'll race them? It depends, just like people, it depends on how well they're doing.

You know, they all age differently. some lose their aggression, some get more aggression, some, you know, it's like a hockey player. There's some guys that you might see when they come out of the draft year that are going to be good forever and they're not. And then some guys pick it up as time goes on, right? Like, yeah, horses are the same thing. It's really, and then if you change your training program or feeding, then it can swap stuff out a bit too as well. I've got to ask then, how was being world champ the first time you went, what was that like? Oh, I was excited.

because I was just starting to come up and got close the year before, and then I rolled my wagon, and so then we kind of got knocked back, and I had to rest all that outfit I just didn't use anymore, like that year. So to get there, it's like winning, I don't know. We talk about Calgary being like a Stanley Cup, you know, and it sucks because it's right in the middle of the season. So after you win that, then you still got to go to all these other shows,

and even if you win them all, it's amazing, but it's not like Calgary. But, like, I don't know. There's a big difference between the two, but when you can go 45 days or 50 days and say I'm number one after that many days, it's pretty like exciting, right? You held it together that long. So what did you do the first year you want? One in the world? Yeah. Nothing went and bought more horses and, you know, I don't know.

I'm competitive, so it's like you go to a banquet or you do anything and they're giving away awards and you're like, well, if it's not you, you're like, fuck, you know? That's got to be me next time. I want to go there so I can see other people accept it so I can make sure it gives you a little more fire in your belly. I mean, when I won Calgary too, it's like I'm going up on stage and I should be, I probably enjoyed Calgary the second year more because I kind of knew it was going on and everything happened so fast. But it's like you get up there and all as you can think about is not letting somebody else up there next year, right? Like you want to be back there and it's nothing. There's a pit in your stomach about how do I do this again, you know?

And that's all already, me and dad are riding the truck and I'm talking about how, how do I do this again? I haven't even got to stage to get my check or my bronzes, and I'm trying to like manage to do this again already, right? But I don't know. They're amazing, you know. It's crazy too between wagons and hockey. When you win hockey, you know, all the boys are on the ice

and everybody contributed. And in wagon racing, there's the horses that don't get to go up on stage and they obviously contributed. Then there's all these other guys that help and just do it for you and the horses. And not one gets recognition. one gets, you know, so it's a completely different team, even though it's like eight or ten of us back there.

Well, who are some of the guys? We can give them a little bit of a shout out right now. Oh, there's Riley and Layton and Lindsay Beach help all the time, Darcy Burton, Christian Burton, and Dad, Raymond, Dale Gray, Jeanette. You know, they're my steady core there all the time, and they literally only do it for, well, has to be for me, because I'm the only one that gets any credit, and they're like, Huge part of it. They're in the barn, ice and horses until 1 o'clock in the morning. They're, you know, like they're there all the time. So one of the interesting things I read, too, was, I don't know, demanding is the word, Kurt, but how time consuming maybe, how you can be in the barn at 6 and be there until 1 in the morning.

Yeah, we try to, if you can, Calgary's the hardest because we usually have quite a bit, like we do stuff throughout the day, but, I mean, sometimes we're hooking at 3 o'clock in the morning. Like I've left the barn in Calgary at 1 and hooked at 3.30 kind of deal. Because it just depends on the day. Like I keep the schedule for the horses and if something's going to go in in two days and they've got to be hooked that day and it just depends on our draw. So there's like a lot of variables. Hooked? Yeah, like hooking them to the wagon, getting them all harnessed up and then hooked to the wagon.

I can hear the Cowboys going. I'm showing my colors now. So I, and it just depends because our barrel draws change and we don't know what we're going to have. We do day to day, but then you don't. know in the fifth day because then it's a redraw in calgary no so it'll end up being you get that three to five a m hook is all you get so some days you're there like from then until about 10 30 and we try to lock down the barns and get the fans rolling and shit then we feed them again at noon and then then same thing try to keep everybody out of the barns till about four and then you'll go from four

till one or two just depending on the night how cool not cool how important is it to have buddy on your side with that wealth and knowledge oh it's huge it's huge like that that's the other thing that the stats don't show is when my stat like when i really started to succeed is the second buddy quit right because now he took his energy and didn't have to worry about his and just put it towards mine so it it means everything right like i would not be where i'm at without him and chance doesn't get that because Buddy's over on our side and Chance is over on the CPCA side. But he's over there with us now. But I've always probably listened to Buddy better than Chance did.

I'm not saying we didn't battle and we didn't whatever, but, you know, he's a little more stubborn. I don't know. You know what I was trying to line up in the summer and then it kind of fell through because I got busy with life, but I was trying to have the Benz-Millers in here. I think we should do it because I think it would be really interesting to let Chance defend them himself at those and I actually have your third brother in because I got to meet him because I mean I've damn near killed myself playing the other two it'd be fun to have the third one in yeah he's the biggest well he's not the tallest but he's the most jacked he's really oh yeah he's big

yeah he works out all the time if you three got in a fight had a little UFC tournament who'd come out on top uh well UFC's got rules if we play without rules I'd probably be one of the more dangerous but uh I don't know It would be a toss-up between Chance and Dave. Like, Chance is just strong, strong. He's a big man. Dave boxed a bit, and he's just, Dave's pretty tough.

Like, I would never tell them their face that they're tough. Like, I'd beke him right to the end, but they, yeah, I don't know. Without rules, I'd be pretty dangerous, I'd be more dangerous than I would be if we have... Why, what would be your go-to? I'd probably throw a punch one really fast. You know, that would probably go on.

Yeah, I don't care that. Well, if you're going after the bigger ones, you gotta... You know, punch him in a face might not help. David's got a glass nose, but that's it. So is your plan then? I was, obviously, Ray Mitzwing was the latest hit 65, I think. Yeah, actually, I don't know if there was any other guys this year.

I shouldn't. No, no, Ray was the last one, yeah. Is that your ultimate goal then? I mean, not ultimate goal. Maybe your mindset to race until you're 65? I think right now that's the plan it'll depend on the body and if I'm not competitive I'm not going to do it

you know like obviously you're going to have up and down years and they're not all going to be like the last few that we've had but I think once we get down and we're not doing as much anymore then we'll probably start thinking about shutting her down I love the sport and I love the horses but it's a lot of work so if it's not financially suitable then I'm probably not going to continue with it

I want to go until I'm 65 I'm hoping that I stay competitive I'm hoping the body holds up right that's the plan but you still have to be reasonable at the end of the day because it costs a lot of money and it can eat a lot of money really fast

I can't think of another sport I really can't think of another sport where you can go until you're 65 no not and compete against guys that are 16 right that's what I mean like yeah I just can't imagine little well not little but

Kurt at 16 rolling in, almost killing a guy one race. And there's 65 Ray just looking over. Now you'll learn it here, kid. Yeah. They all did it, yeah. It's crazy. Who's the greatest truck wagon driver of all time? And you can't say yourself.

Well, it just depends. Like, if you're talking about competition, you have to go to Kelly because he's won the most. out the most stats. Kelly was able to... Kelly Sutherland. Yeah, Kelly Sutherland. So he's always had money. So when he had downtime,

and his brother Kirk tries to do that now, when they have a horse that gets hurt or can't be used, they just write a check and go to somebody's barn and grab the next best thing. And in hockey and every other sports, you have salary caps, so you can't do that without getting hit. And these guys, when they have money, so that's why they're pretty competitive. Not saying they couldn't drive, but I'm just saying,

well, Kirk, I don't... I don't think Kirk's a very good driver, but Kelly always was pretty good. But when you have that unlimited money makes life a lot easier when a lot of us just have to work with what we got. So if you have a horse go down and now he's out for a couple days and you have to use the next one. If he's out for a couple days, you've got to use the next one. But them guys are allowed to stroke checks. So I don't know, they, I, Hughie Sinclair was always a good driver. And my dad, like he's one of them guys that they all talk about was always super clean, always competitive and always did it with the cheapest.

not the cheapest, but probably his budget, right? And he'll be going against outfits that guy spent 40,000 a horse or 30,000 horse back then, and his whole outfits worth 5,000 bucks. Not then, but when he bought him and broke him and went through it, right?

So I think that's a big deal. And then there's two guys that always drove good was George Norman, but he passed away pretty early, but was breaking records in an eighth amount of time, you know? So you've got to put him pretty high on the list. What do you mean breaking records? Well, like he won the world three times.

He was the highest, like he could never win Calgary, but the world like, I don't know, it was five or something in eight years. Do you mean? Like he was just started. That good. He was that good, that fast. He raced for a couple years and took a couple years off income and really dominated. So they started putting in rules for him where it used to be points that won the world,

but because they couldn't beat him in points, then they started having a one winner take-all dash so you could be 200 points behind them. but if you just beat them that one race, then you were the world champion. You know you're good when. They start putting rules in against you. Yeah, exactly, right? So they're, I don't know. There's, yeah.

Does that annoy you then when you got one race, winner take all? Or do you think it's a good system? I don't know. I don't, in Calgary, I don't mind it because if you're in first, you still get the truck. So you still get an $80,000 vehicle. So then that's okay. but some of the other shows like Pinocca you do four days or five days with the and then you get you go pick a barrel and you get screwed and you're done so you can make every dash not win

and be first everywhere and not win anything so it's kind of shitty that way right but i don't know you've got to keep the excitement for the people as well right what's uh you can't say stampede but what place or what fans or what arena like what's what you're like what's what you're one of the better ones that you like going to or have been to. Pinocca is one of the best ones. Yeah. It's like a mini Calgary. The fans are just like the whole sometimes when you come down the lane and stuff, the whole grandstand will be shaking like it because it's just, it's intense, right? And it's a bunch of rodeo people,

farmers. There'd be city people there, but they're all there for the enjoyment of the sport, which is cool. What's the smallest one you do? And I don't mean like, I just mean like maybe one that people don't know about. I don't know. One of our smaller ones has got to be like Medicine Hat. Okay. It's not very big. Like it's still a decent show, but it's just not a big show.

Like it just doesn't sellout or whatever, right? I don't know if it's just because of advertising. We've been there a long time, but we get lots of people some nights. It's just not like for the four days that we're there. It's probably one of our weaker fan bases. All right. Well, we'll get to the final part here so I don't hold you here all night long. But we'll do the Crude Masters Final Five brought to you by Crude Master,

Heath and Tracy McDonnell, huge supporters of mine. So thanks and shout out to them. Essentially five questions to you, a little lighter than maybe what we've been doing. I don't know if this is heavy or not. First one, in the Dash for Cash, if you could race against, who would you want in the race against you? If you could pick anyone to race against. It would be Buddy, and then I put George, Norman, and then my grandpa Allen.

Oh yeah, that'd be good Yeah, my grandpa Alan, like I was fairly young when he passed away But everybody talks about how much of a teamster he was That's all he did was break horses, right? So guys all over the CPCA would bring horses to him for them to break And it always pissed Buddy off Because he said that when he was practicing Grandpa could just grab the four horses

And make them look like they'd been together forever And it would piss him off because he'd be like struggling And I'm like, oh, so exactly what you do with me That's, you know, it used to really bother me Like, well, this horse doesn't work And he'd kind of complain and then buddy just take the lines and the second jump, they're just natural. Like, they've been together for the whole year, and you're like,

son of a bitch, that's annoying, right? But, yeah, that would be my floor. That was really quick. Have you had that question before? No, I don't know. Well, maybe. There are three wagon drivers that I really hold high. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Two I never got to run against. Did you ever get to see the other two brake horses? I gramp a little bit, but I was young. But George off and on, because him and death. I'd travel, but he passed away at the same time as grandpa lives. You could have a beer with one person, and you can't say yours truly. Because I'm positive this ranks high up there. Can we come back to that one?

Sure. Have you think about it? Yeah, I don't let you think about it. How about it if you could party with one celebrity? Who would you go with? Oh, I don't know, man. Denzo Washington. Denzel Washington. Wow, did not see that coming. Why Denzel?

I don't know. I just, every movie's in, he's just glassy, and every time, yeah, you just don't see anything that he does wrong, and you see any interviews he does. I really like Denzel and I really like Morgan Freeman. They're just no holds bars when they do interviews, they just talk, you know, or especially Morgan, he's more like comedy, but he, like, just straight shooter tells you I don't think I need that or we don't need it. That doesn't matter. He just goes through it and him and, I don't know, they just seem like straight shooters and just classy guys that you probably wouldn't be like anybody else that you could have a drink with. So is that your beer question or is that your party question?

I don't know. I want to party with them because I think their stories will come out later on. True. I wish I had Morgan Freeman's voice. That guy has a great voice. Yeah, him or Sam Elliott would be the... Yeah, Sam Elliott. Yeah, there's another one.

We were just watching Roadhouse the other night. Oh, yeah. Frick and Sam, a young Sam Elliott. Yeah. Or as young as he ever looks, because he's always gray hair and gray mustache. Yeah. What's your favorite Denzel watching the movie then? Um, I don't know.

I haven't, like, besides, I don't know, I honestly don't have one that I didn't like of him. And that's why he's probably one of the guys I want to party. It's a cop-out. You don't even have a... You're telling me, well, they're all good. They are. Like, I don't. know one that I could be like, oh yeah, that was great.

I tell you what, if Denzel listens to this and you get to go party with them, I'll be like, that was a smart answer to that question, but chance are Denzel ain't listen to this. Denzel don't know who I am. That's fine. I just, yeah, I don't know. If you had a time machine and could go to anywhere at any time, where would you go? You said these are supposed to be tough.

Oh, sorry. You know, I gave Kenny Morrison to give you a little reprieve here while I sit and talk to the audience. I had Kenny Morrison on here, like, episode 18. You know who Kenny is? Kenny is a guy who played hockey here in Lloyd, and then, you know, roundabout way, he finally, you know, Division I,

then he gets signed by the Calgary Claims for a little bit. So I'm talking to him, and I asked him that question, and he goes, well, it's with all the tough questions. I'm like, tough questions. Come on. It's not that hard. Like, where would you go? And I've ragged on him now for pretty much the full year.

I guess I'm going to have to stop doing that. Because everybody comes on, it's like, geez, these are kind of tough questions. I guess I should preemptively send you. What would you do with the time machine? Well, because you only get one shot at it, so you want to make sure you do the right thing, right? I don't know. There's a lot of good times in history. I would, just for current events sake, I'd like to go and hang out with Trump to see how he actually talked to the Ukrainian president.

Might be able to settle some stuff. Well, that's a first. And by first, I mean, that's first time Trump's ever got brought up on here. Well, it's the only thing in the news is all about the impeachment. Yeah. So if you actually had an opportunity to go listen to what he said, I don't know. Just be interesting at this point in time. There's parties I'd like to go to.

There's some championship rooms that I'd like to be in. But I mean, as far as current events, I think that would be neat. There are some battles I'd like to go watch, but I'd think I'd be too close that I, You know, wouldn't want to actually be in it. Have you watched anything on Trump from back when he was young? Some, not overly, though. He was an interesting dude growing up. Very smart.

Yeah? Yeah. He has to be. You can't lose and make money that often and not have any smarts to you. Yeah. If you could pick line mates and hockey, who would you take? Anybody in the world? Anybody in the world.

Anytime. Dead or alive. Currents are past. Oh, I think I'd have to take... They're two opposite. Sackick. And... Shit.

I don't know who the other one would be. I like Sackick and probably Eiserman. That'd be my other one. Let me go stand in front of that and let them guys do what they do. Give them room up top to take the shot. And Eiserman would do a stutter step and go wide. I don't know. They just...

Just naturally filthy. No. problems with anything. Yeah, that'd be a good line. I'd get to watch their numbers because I'd have trouble keeping up. Like, there's all kinds of guys. I really like Lemieux.

I've been a huge fan on Lemieux. But I just, I like Sackett's Rister from up top. Oh, Sackers, yeah. Well, Sack, you're talking about two of the greats from, well, since we were three years apart, so our childhood, right? We got to watch those guys go through everything and win everything.

And they did it the right way. Yeah. Yeah. Like, classy. Like, everything about them is good.

There's some guys I'd love to be in the room with. But there's a, that would be I'd love to play. He was one of the guys you'd like to be in the room with. Well, I don't like to be in the room

with Probert. Oh, yeah. I just finished reading his book for the first, well, for the first time. I just finally finished reading it. Yeah.

A couple months ago. Have you read his book? Nope. Man, he had a life. Well, documentary and the the what's the movie they have out on them do you see that one i haven't seen the movie yeah it's about yeah it's about him and it's him talking and whatever and then it goes

right to his death but it uh yeah it's intense some of the stuff that he you know went through and did and yeah in and out of jail rehab not being able to leave the country etc etc etc yeah and then some yeah i know like uh i mean some of it's like like uh i mean some of it's like like Like, oh, dang, poor me. Not poor me, but, like, he, it's self-inflicted, but he, you know, it's a rabbit hole that he got behind and then couldn't get out of. Like, he just kept saying.

Yeah, he was into some, like, towards the end, even the painkiller. I was reading in the book, his wife would hide the painkillers all across the house because she knew if he knew where they were, he'd take them all. And then every time she left, she would tell him where a new set was. So then he'd go and take him.

because he had severe pain, but he was addicted to painkillers. Yeah, I don't know. They'd have some good stories. That's why I'd like to be in the room with him. If you could go to the Calgary Stampede, but you couldn't do the Chucks, what event would you compete in? That's interesting.

I always want to do Saddlebronk. Saddlebron? Yeah, I always wanted to do Saddlebron. I don't know why. I just always wanted to do it. I don't think I could have because I can't ride that well and I always hated riding. I don't know. I just always enjoyed the way the horses to go and the guys ride.

Frick, they jump high. Yeah. Yeah, like serious air right from the time they come out of the shoot. And I always thought, bull riding never intrigued me. Well, we did, David did it a little bit. We all kind of did steer riding and shit. But I never was into bulls, but the horses, I always like saddlebrown. Kurt Benzmiller, the saddlebrought champ of the world.

I doubt it. I'd have been broken up worse now than I am. Let's go back to bear with one person. If you could sit down and have a chat with somebody. William Wallace. William Wallace. Yeah. Super smart.

Always was. It was really good with everything until they killed his wife. Like if you go through, like not just the movie, but you read about him. He's, uh, like he was actually pretty smart, right? Like he, multiple languages. Like he was just very well educated and just, got trapped in something and then he took it really far because of his wealth of knowledge, right? Yeah.

Well, I've really enjoyed this. I was thinking when I was bringing on, I'm like, well, half a Hill Mod is going to probably hate me. Or they're going to be surprised, right? Like, that's happened. I had Adam Huxley on here, oh, in the last month, right? And when his name popped up, I probably got 20 texts that he was coming on. I mean, you played in the league against him, right? He's earned a name for himself.

When you play in small town senior hockey, everybody earns a name for themselves against the other opposing team, and if you're one of the better players, you earn an even bigger name, so to have you on here, I mean, your accolades are, they speak for themselves,

so to have you on is a no-brainer, but I really appreciate you coming in and sitting down and bullshitting with me for a few hours. It's been a lot of fun. No, I appreciate it anytime. Right on. Well, that's her.

Awesome. Thanks for tuning in, folks. Appreciate Kurt. stopping in. I got to be honest, when I first started this podcast, he was a name on my list, but I played a lot of years against Kurt. I wasn't sure, you know, you play each other that much, as much as he'll want to Dewberry have. And you build up an idea of someone's persona on ice and really enjoyed getting, you know, sitting here and discussing about his career up to this point and learn a little bit about more about himself and just getting interact with him away from the

rink and it was highly enjoyable i hope you guys enjoyed it as much as i did um and uh yeah i really appreciate him coming in for next week it will be christmas day christmas day is the next wednesday and i fought long and hard on what to what to do and if i'm going to release an episode on christmas day and uh to be truthful it's the last wednesday of the year meaning after christmas uh which was my biggest goal of the year was to be consistent every Wednesday for a year. And Wednesday is the crown jewel, the cherry on top, so to speak, of doing this for a full year since February at least. And so I'm going to release it on Christmas.

Hope you guys have a great Christmas. Enjoy time with the family and friends and stay safe and there will be an episode on a Christmas day. But thanks for tuning in and checking this out all year long. have really appreciated all the feedback comments that have come my way. And Merry Christmas, guys.