Shaun Newman Podcast - Ep. 54 - 30 years officiating & inaugural Humboldt Broncos President - Leo Wurtz

Episode Date: January 29, 2020

Leo originally from Dalmeny SK. spent 30 years officiating doing over 3500 games. He also was a ref assignor & at one point was assigning for 12 different Junior & Senior leagues while doing all of Lloydminster Minor Hockey. He was the inaugural President of the Humboldt Broncos, has been inducted into the Alberta Hockey Hall of Fame as well as the Saskatchewan Baseball Hall of Fame. 

This is Leo Wards speaking. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Here we go. Well, this week is an interesting one with Leo Warts joining us. I just thought I'd give a quick shout out to the Home On Community once again. We had that Hockey Day in Saskatchewan a couple weekends back and finally got the final total. It was over $200,000 raised for that weekend. So just a huge accomplishment.

So hats off to everyone that was involved. I mean, that is just unbelievable to be a part of such a thing. And to everyone who came and turned out and helped support that. I mean, it was minus 51, like a day or two before that event. And still people came out to the rink. And we all know the homeowner arena is not exactly balmy. Now, here is your Factory Sports Tale of the Tape. This week, it's Leo Wirtz.

He did 30 years of officiating, which meant he did over 3,500 games. Let that sink in. He was a ref assigner, and at one point was assigning for 12 different junior and senior leagues, plus Lloydminster minor hockey. Yeah, that'll scramble your brain awfully quick. In 1987, Leo was presented with the Northeast Referee Zone Award for Recognition of Dedicated Service to the Zone. In 1990, he was presented with the Hockey Alberta Ernie Borick Award and recognition of dedicated service to the Hockey Alberta Reh Committee.

And when Leo retired in 1990, the Northeast Zone created the Leo Warts Award to be presented annually for recognition of outstanding dedication and commitment to officiating. If that wasn't enough, he was also inducted into the Hockey Alberta Hall of Fame. He's been inducted into the Baseball, Saskatchewan Hall of Fame. Oh, wait, yeah, he played baseball too. and was the inaugural president of the humble Broncos. I don't think I need to say anymore. So buckle up, hold on, and enjoy this one.

Without further ado. Tonight I'm joined by Leo Words. Thank you, first off, for sitting down with me. It seems we've been doing this dance now for a few months of trying to get you on and finally our schedule is matched up, so I appreciate you coming on with me. Well, that's my real pleasure. Now, the format is usually we go back to your, early days and I was just doing the math in my head, you're 80, so 1939 you're born?

Yes, sir. And Delamine, Saskatchewan, is that correct? Or was it Saskatoon? I was born at home on the farm, and the farm was located about four miles straight south of the town of Delmeny. Okay. And, I don't know, paint the listeners a picture. Was it, what type of farm grain or was it? We were mixed farmers.

Mixed farmers? We didn't have very much land. I think my dad farmed. initially when I was young, he farmed about three quarters of land all by horses and we had a few head of livestock. We milk cows and had our own milk and had a few hogs and that kind of thing. Yeah. And we lived there till I was about six years old. Then we moved to another farm just north of Saskatoon. And that's where I went to school and to a rural school was called the Virtue School. It's located just at the Dalmany Turnoff off Highway 16. And my dad,

mum farm there till about 1951. We had some bad crops. There was a lot of drought in the late 40s, early 50s. My dad got a job at the university and we moved to Saskatoon. Do you remember how bad the drought was? It was bad enough that we didn't have any, we didn't have combines back in that day we had threshing machines and I don't think we had a thrashing machine on our property in about three years. Oh wow. Yeah. So anyway that's I finished my elementary school at a rural school and then we went to Saskatoon and I went to high school in Saskatoon. Can we talk about the rural school for a couple minutes? How far did you have to go to get to the rural school? Well across the field you walked a mile and a half. Now did you just walk or did you horse or did you

I've had when I was young. The reason I ask is Shep Skied, my dad took horse, somebody else walked, and so I always find it fascinating what mode of transportation, especially in the wintertime, that kind of thing. Well, when the weather was nice during the spring, summer, and fall, I normally walked. If the weather was bad, mom or dad would drive me to school with a horse and buggy during the summer or with a horse and caboose during the winter. and when I got a bit older when I was in grade 6, 7, grade 8, I was allowed to drive the horse and buggy to school myself or the horse and caboose myself during the winter. And it was just one-room school, I assume?

It was one-room school. And we had, I think, about a maximum of 21 students from grade 1 to grade 9. Oh, yeah, yeah. And do you remember anything from there? Like, from you were born in 39, you wouldn't have been very old by the time the war was over those early years? Anything that sticks out?

I remember, we lived north of Saskatoon, and Saskatoon was an air base and a training base, and there would always be airplanes flying over our farm. And they'd fly quite low over the house on certain occasions as well. So I remember that part of the war where these planes were flying out across our place in abundance. The reason I laugh is I was just telling about Sycamble being the night. 94-year-old World War II vet, and he was a tail gunner on a Lancaster bomber, and he talks about being in Saskatoon in training and dive-bombing farmers as a training exercise, and he goes, that probably wasn't a smart idea.

Anyway, we found it exciting, and it gave us a bit of entertainment. You became a school teacher, correct? I did. So I was curious, back in the day, could you enlighten some of the younger listeners on what discipline and school teaching maybe was like, especially compared to what, well, now you see, but even in your career? Well, back in my era, teachers were still very highly respected. And I taught in, I started my career teaching in Humboldt, and I had 25 or 26 students. I had their respect. I was involved in sports, and I,

tried to be very involved with my students so that I just wasn't an authoritarian figure. I was a human being the same as they were. So I had a reasonably good rapport. So I taught for about four or five years and then I became principal at the school and I remained principal there for another four or five years before moving to Lloyd Minster in 1972 where I taught in the old Lloyd Minster junior high school, which is now Yes, Laird. Okay. You mentioned respect a couple times there. Do you think teachers have maybe dropped a peg or two then?

I don't see the students giving the teachers the respect today that we received when I was teaching. It's a different atmosphere. It's a different world. In our time, if kids misbehaved at school and you call, you called, you call the the parents to make them aware that you had an issue, the kid got at the home from the parents as well. The rest of the day, it seems like the teachers are the ones who take the burden of the abuse, not just from the student, but also from some of the parents. Now, that isn't the case with 100% of them, but it is the case that it makes it somewhat challenging for some of these

teachers. Yeah, you probably teach, like, my wife's a teacher, grade one out at Lashburn, and it's interesting times, especially to be a teacher. Mind you, they have all kinds of new innovations, like computer science and all that kind of thing. So you can't compare the content that's being taught today compared to the content when I was teaching. In my day, it was more or less, I'm trying to think of the word.

Life science. Okay. You know, like in health, you learned how to cook and how to take care of yourself and that kind of thing. In social studies, you learned about the province. You learned about the country. You learned about your district. You didn't worry about other countries in the world.

You know, it was kind of, as I said, kind of a life science. I bet people would argue they could use a little bit more of taking care of yourself, learning to cook, stuff like that is very valuable. Those are subjects that I feel that we're missing out on today in our society. You know, like the life science, how to cook, to care yourself. I know I had the advantage as well. There was no drugs back in my era.

You didn't have to contend with that. You talked about it, a wee bit, but you never ever saw. the effects of it and the challenges that the kids are facing today. Yeah, it's everywhere, isn't it? Yeah, for sure. Let's talk about at school. Did you guys have different, like, I know you're in baseball hockey specifically, but I'm sure maybe you could even, was there other sports or was it, did you play for your district or did you have,

or your rural school or how did that work? We had, in the spring of the year, all the schools in our division would have a field meet. We'd meet like in a community such as Warman. Okay. And there'd be a softball tournament and there'd be track and field events for all the kids. But that's about as far as it went. Later on, when I got teaching myself, we had, you know, in the fall we had volleyball, went into football, basketball, you know, badminton, and then in the spring you had,

and you had hockey as well, and you had, you know, ball in the spring. And I see that is kind of a thing of the past as well. We used to have intermurals, you know, like the school was divided up into teams, and they'd compete against each other, and it gave the school morale, and we'd have a senior team, and then we'd go out and compete against smaller towns or smaller schools in our surrounding area as well. Now, I don't know whether they have house sports. I don't know if they do.

When I first came to Lloyd Minster, they had just formed their minor hockey association. The schools ran the minor hockey. All the hockey was, and the ball in the spring was all done and organized through the school systems. And minor hockey came into existence in Lloyd Minster in the late, late 60s, early, early 70s. And so was it better, do you think, ran by the schools then? Well, I don't know if it was better. I don't know that all the teachers were highly skilled coaches in the areas, but they certainly gave it their best and allowed the kids the opportunity of enjoying the sports

that the otherwise wouldn't be able to participate in. When did the love of baseball start? Because if I'm wrong, you've been inducted. Well, we always played ball at school. You know, like at recess, what did you do during the spring and summer? At recess, you played ball. So right from a very young age, I was introduced to ball at school, and I enjoyed it. And as I got older, I got more involved with competitive ball and umpiring and that type of thing.

Did you play, I got to, like, being a rural Saskatchewan, but Saskatchewan in general, hockey is just rampant. I was saying the other day, senior hockey, there's over 100 teams, right? Back in my time, I didn't start playing hockey until I was in Midget. Really? And I wasn't a rugged hockey player. I played juvenile. And when I completed juvenile, I played for a senior team. They were called the Kenneson Royals.

And on one of our road trips on the way home, one of the players was the referee in chief of the Saskatoon Playgrounds Hockey League. And he was having trouble finding enough officials for some games one evening, and he said, Wirtz, do you think you'd be interested to help me out refereeing some games on this certain night? I said, you know, I've never refereed.

I don't know much about it, but if you put an experience guy with me, I'll give it a try. So the day came, and it was an outdoor game. You wore a two Kand-Parka, and I did two games, and went home and thought I had done my deed to society. You called back a few nights later,

I thought he was just calling to check on how I made out. And he said, what are you doing this week on that night? He said, nothing? Well, he said, do you mind doing those games again this week? So I went and did a couple more games. The third time he phoned, he said, do you just want to go to the rink every Wednesday night and do those games for the rest of the season?

And that's how my refereeing career. Start. That started. Then I did. So did you enjoy it then when you were going out, or were you getting paid? there? You got paid, it was a very insignificant amount that you got paid. You did it because of the love of the game and for being able to participate and, you know, as a player, you only get a shift

every third time. As a referee, you're out there 60 minutes and I was doing pee-wee, Bantam, and Midget, and I wasn't having too much difficulty. I seemed to be managing, okay, keeping control. So I moved to Humboldt in 1960 1969 I moved to Humboldt and that fall I tried out for the senior hockey team and

before the season began we had two exhibition games slated with the university Huskies and we had quite a few players so for the first game the coach asked if I'd mind sitting out and he assured me I'd played the second game. Well when the second game came after our last

practice before the game we were discussing who to get to referee because back in that era teams were responsible for the referees there was no referee in chief there were no assigners so so let me get this straight you're playing on a senior hockey team against the humble legionnaires senior team against the u of s where we're having exhibition games against the u of s now does the home team give two officials or is it one-in-one no at that time for the for those exhibition games the home team is responsible for for both officials. Talk about home ice advantage.

Anyway, after the last practice before the next game, the conversation in the dressing room turned to who are going to get to referee this game. And one of the guys piped up and said, well he said, Wirtz, he's refereed in Saskatoon, maybe he'll do the game. So the coach looked at me and he said, do you think you could manage to referee that game? I never played a game after, I never played hockey again after that. And that's where my career took off. And then back in that era, when the league play started, each team was responsible for having one referee.

We refereed the two-man system back in that era. So I'd go with Humboldt, travel with the team to Malford, Tisdale, Wyniard, Raymar, whatever. And sometimes after when the games were over, the opponent, the scorekeepers would come in. You had to sign the score sheet. And they were often individuals who were quite involved with the team. and they'd say, do you do more games than just the humble games? Well, yeah. God, he said, I'm having a tough time getting a referee for this next home game of ours.

Are you able to come out and do that game on whatever night? Yeah, and that's how it started. You'd go to the next town and the same thing happened there. Gosh, we can't get referees for a game. Can you help out? So it got to the point where there was more than I could do, so I had some friends. I included them, and we kind of formed a small,

Association and we used to turn at helping out these teams and ran refereeing. I got to ask, how many years did you ref? I refereed 30 years. 30 years. From the start of that to the end of that, did you notice a change in players' temperaments

to the refs? Most definitely, because when I first started there were no helmets and were no face masks and stick work was it occurred but not to the extent that it occurred once helmets and face masks came into existence. As the equipment

improved, the style of the hockey changed with it, became more aggressive, it was more stick work, more high sticking, more slashing, all that kind of thing. So there was quite a significant change from the era when there wasn't helmets and face masks to the era, when a era, when a helmets and face masks and the good equipment came into existence. So do you think it's better now then or was it better back then? Well certain games had their moments back then as well. There were fights and there were stick swinging brawls and that kind of thing. But there's no question in my mind that the caliber of hockey day is much more superior to the caliber of hockey back in the 50s and 60s. The skating and the passing, shooting, all of that, the goal tending, all of that has

improved. Yet the player temperament is far worse. Yes. It seems like the players, because of all this extra equipment that they're wearing protective equipment, they have no respect to each other. And you have guys taking headshots and, you know, guys getting concussions. That's the big issue to day concussions. I contribute some of that to the fact that players have better equipment, but that other players, because of the money, need to maintain their level of play, whatever level of debt is at, and for some of them, it's physical. And as a result, you see a lot of injuries occurring, particularly concussions. Was there concussions back then?

I'm sure there were many concussions, but when the player got hit and fell to the ice and got knocked out, they dragged him to the bench, and when his turn came to get back out there, he went back out and played. There was no concussion protocol back at that time. What was your favorite rink to ref back then? Like where did you love going to?

Well, one of my favorite towns was called Drake, Saskatchewan. Drake, Saskatchewan. I believe they still got seen on. Great Saskatchewan. They had me do, they contacted me early in the fall and asked me to do all of their home games and their away games. It had a small rink. Back in the early 60s,

there was a fad in Saskatchewan where every community was given a new arena by the government, with the Recreation Department of the government. When was it? Back in the early 60s, if you check around the communities and even our area, many of the rinks had that same design, that same shell design. And that was the common theme back in that era. They were easy to construct, they were inexpensive and easy to maintain. So every community that had any kind of a problem.

population had a new arena. Well, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Because, I mean, anywhere you go in small town, Saskatchewan, there's so many rinks that are almost identical. Well, I mean, if you get them where they're still alive, because that's... So Drake was a very small town. Probably had a population of 200, 250.

Okay. Another community I enjoyed going to was Bonneville. In my era, while I was in Lloyd Minster, Bonneville had one of the top teams in intermediate hockey in Western Canada. They often only played exhibition games, but they played a very high caliber of competition like the University of Alberta Golden Bears. So that was some of the best hockey that I was afforded

the opportunity of refereeing. The Golden Bears would play exhibition games against the Bonneville Pontiacs. And Bonneville, for a number of years, back in the late 70s, early 80s, represented Alberta at the Allen Cup, it was back in that time. They'd beat, in that era, they'd win their province.

They had to play against rivals in Alberta. And then when they won Alberta, they'd play B.C. And then when they won the West, then they'd head out to the Allen Cup. They'd go on. And they would go as far. They played Winnipeg. I know a couple of occasions. And Winnipeg was a very strong, Winnipeg Maroons were a very strong senior team.

and that's about as far as Bonneville got. But Bonneville were a very good skating team, very well disciplined. It reminded me of the Montreal Canadiens. There were a lot of French boys on that team, and they could all skate and pass, and they were, I wonder to watch. I did not know that. So going back to Drake then,

what was it that Drake reffing there was so grand about it? Well, I was reliable. They contacted me, and we agreed, on the terms of additions, on a handshake, I'd show up and... Do they get lots of fans in that arena? Well, back in that era, there wasn't the TV that there is today. That was the entertainment. So it was mainly the only standing room.

You know, there was no bleachers and they usually fill that rink. You know, there'd be a couple, 300 people to a senior game and Drake or even the communities, which they played against. What do you think of now in the NHL specifically? They got video review on everything. What do you think of that when the refs are getting scrutinized as much as they do today? Well, it's a different era today. Even here in Ludminster, in our area here, the young officials are being scrutinized.

They're being evaluated by senior officials, and they have to meet certain standards in order to be able to qualify to referee various levels. In my era, if you could blow the whistle and stand on two skates, you got the job. I don't know if I could cope with the politics of the game today, even locally. It's something different, isn't it? It is. And even, you know, in this area, back in the 70s, early 80s, there was a lot of good senior hockey in this area. You know, you had the Big Four

League to the east. You had the West Central League, which went, you know, Neilberg, Cutknife, Macklin. You had the Battle River League, Irma, Hardesty, and those teams to the southwest. You had Centennial League, which involved like Two Hills and O'Laklabish, Caheehan. you had that senior league with Cold Lake, Vermilion, St. Paul. It was a very, that was good hockey. You know, the Borda Kings, when they were in their prime back in the 70s, they were as good as anybody in Western Canada. But times have changed, and people now have other interests,

and unfortunately, hockey is taken a back seat in many of these small communities, as evidenced by us not having a Borda King team. So anyway, that's how I got into the refereeing racket. You became the referee coordinator in town. Did you not? Right. When I first came to Lloyd, as I said, teams were responsible for choosing the referees and appointed them for the games.

And it was on more than one occasion. I'd be having supper and the phone read ring. Jesus, Leo, we forgot to contact you to come and referee. We got a game. There's teams on the ice. can you get down here? So I suggested maybe that they look at having someone act

as a referee assigner or a coordinator. And because I brought it up, I got the job. And then because I was refereeing in these communities around Lloydminster, guys like Laryllinnick and Jim Utley and Bob Jack and Franks Manrath,

we couldn't handle the workload so we formed an association, had clinics and got more people involved. And I did the assigning for most, if not all of the senior leagues within a 75-mile radius of Lloyd Minster plus all of Lloyd-Mindster minor hockey. How many games is that? Oh, gosh, I would be in the thousands, I would think. It would be a thousand games, I'm sure.

Most of those leagues did only play maybe an 18, the senior leagues, would only be playing an 18 or 20 game schedule. And the other thing back in that era, hockey didn't start until late, late November. or early December, and it was over by the end of February early March. Right? Right, because most of the towns didn't have artificial ice. That's right. Like now, they're starting in August and they're going until May. They're not even quitting anymore. Right. Right. Yeah. So the number of games wasn't significant because of the limited schedules that those teams were involved with. You had to have been a busy man. So your full-time T-Chay...

It was. You got a wife and two kids, and you're going left, right and center all over. You had to be organized. Being organized was the big thing. And my wife was a lot of support. If somebody, I had my record book, my wife knew how to read it. If somebody called in and said they couldn't go because they were sick, she knew who to call to fill that vacancy. No kidding.

She was a big, big support. Back of that era for me as well. That's huge. Yep. Yeah. So anyway. Did she, did you, you know, I got three kids under four. Listeners always hear about this.

So I got little kids. I'm married. Still playing senior hockey for Helmand. We're going into playoffs this coming week. Did, my wife brings the kids out every once in a while. They're pretty young still, but they come out to the games. Did your wife and kids come out and watch your ref? They would often travel with me on weekends.

You know, if I had a game in Meadow Lake or a big game in Battleford or Mackler somewhere. They didn't come often, but when the kids got older, they did come. But my wife was busy when they were young. My kids played hockey, and my oldest boy was involved in cadets, so she was pretty involved taking the kids to their activities as well. But the weekend came along, and it was nice weather, and it wasn't too far. going to be an entertaining game. They'd come along and keep me company.

Where did you meet such a good woman? Well, I met her at Humboldt many, many years ago. Many, many years ago. How long have you been married for? After a hockey game. Yeah. We just celebrated our 16th wedding anniversary. Well, congratulations.

Yes. Yeah. That's wonderful. That's 60 years. That's impressive. It is. Did you take her somewhere nice? Pardon?

Did you take her somewhere nice? Well, because of her condition, we haven't been able to capitalize on that yet. but we used to travel extensively until she became handicapped. We enjoy baseball, and we would take and arrange our holidays for September when the pennant races were getting... Ramping up. Ramping up, yes. So we'd go to Houston or San Diego or Tampa Bay.

What's your favorite place? What ballpark do you like in the MLB? Well, Houston was one that we really enjoyed. It was easy to park. Yeah. And when we went to Houston, that was the year they set the record for the most losses. I think they lost 102 games that year. So there weren't very big crowds.

But the ushers and all the people involved were very, very hospitable. They would notice that you were there for a number of games. Where are you people from? So you tell them, and they'd become interested in knowing what things were like around Lloydminster. And they were totally unfamiliar with the oil sands and that kind of thing. so you get to visit with them and find out about them and they find out about you as well. But Houston was the one that we have enjoyed the most,

although all of them have been good. San Diego is good, Minnesota is good, Tampa Bay, Toronto. They've all got their high spots. I've got to ask about Houston. I assume you heard about the garbage can banging so they knew what pitch was coming. You know, that's been rumored for a couple of years,

but I never ever dreamt that it was as sophisticated as it was. And I guess the consequences, the suspensions and fines show you just how significant it was and that this kind of thing just can't be tolerated. It's almost unbelievable they went that far. Because I remember when I first heard of it, like, ah, it's probably, you know, like it's not that big a deal. And then the more that came out, you're like,

Oh, that's pretty in depth. Like, that's pretty crazy that, you know, the infrared camera out in the middle and then banging on the garbage can to the point where El Tuve had the patch on his arm that would rumble, and you're like, whew, like, that's... It was highly organized, and I don't know, I'm starting to approve of that.

Most of the time, it would just be when there'd be a runner on second base. And he'd flash some kind of a signal. And he'd try and still signals. That's right. That's right. You know, flash the catcher signals to the bat. I didn't realize. I never, ever dreamt that it would be as sophisticated as they had it.

Yeah. Well, let's talk about your baseball career. Because I know, you know, you've been inducted into the Saskatchewan Baseball Hall fame, correct? Yes. And that you played for the Saskatoon gems? Well, I played. We started playing organized ball with the Saskatoon Optimists junior team in 1957. And we won...

So is that high school then? That was about, I think there were 18, 19, 20-year-olds. Okay, okay. So about junior-age ball then? Yes, it was called junior ball. We were a junior team, and we played in the senior league. And we won the provincial junior championship in 57, and we lost the... Western Canadian Championship in it was called Renfrew Park Edmonton back then

became John Ducey and whatever since then after my junior I played for the Saskatoon gems and we were a very young team playing in a senior league and in in 1959 we won the Saskatoon Saskatoon Senior Baseball Championship as I said in 1960, I moved to Humboldt, and when I got to Humboldt, met up with some players that played for Marysburg, and they asked if I'd enjoy coming out and trying out and playing with them. And one of my claims to fame, I replaced Glenn Hall, the goalkeeper with the Chicago Blackhawks, Wilson Humboldt. And he was playing for Marysburg?

He played for Marysburg, and I replaced him as the first basement for Marysburg. So I played for Marysburg for a few years. And talk a little bit about Marysburg, because I found Marysburg very interesting, because they've been going for over 100 years now. And I believe you attended. In 2018, we celebrated the 100th anniversary of the team. Of the Marysburg Royals. Yes.

They're still going strong. They have a team that plays in the Saskatoon Senior Baseball League. Okay. I don't know that they won it this year, but they won the league in 2018. How is, I got to ask, I'm really curious about going back for a hundred year anniversary of a baseball team. I'm assuming they had people there from all, like maybe you were one of the older guys, but I assume there had to have been a couple around your age. From the team that I played on, there are only, I believe, four surviving members.

And I think there was only two of us that were there. Arnie Sreeby, he was the catcher, he's 91. And I think I was the next oldest, but I think from the era that I played, there were only the two of us. There were two others surviving, but they weren't able to attend because of their health. But it was great to go back there.

Same old ball diamond. Yeah. And I met up with one of the players, younger players that I knew. and as we wandered around and stabbled around, he'd meet his friends and he said, by the way, do you remember Leo Wirtz? Oh, yeah, I remember my dad talking about him,

or I remember, and I was a kid watching him play, so I was very, very highly received. And I had the honor of being the guest speaker at the dinner that we had as well. No kidding. Yes. And my theme that I used, I was, I sat down and over time, I was able to remember every player that I played with.

And in my speech that I gave, I recounted every player. And we'll take the catcher, Arnie Streby. I compared him to Gary Carter and said, you know, it's well-rumored that Gary Carter often called Arnie for tips of how to be a catcher. Our shortstop and our captain and team leader was Art Streby. and I compared art to Derek Jeter. I was able to compare every player. Our lead off batter was Walter Streby.

He had a real knack for getting on base, and I compared him to Pete Rhodes. So I was able to go through the entire lineup. Our big batter was Danny Bimal, and I compared him to Big Poppy. Anyway, I had the crowd mesmerized while I went through all of this. When I was all done, I said,

okay, to the best of my memory, that was the lineup. Who did I forget? And they said, you didn't miss anybody. Do you want them all. And I even referred to some of the players that have passed on. And I said, well, we're having this dinner and having this reunion. They're having their reunion upstairs as well. And I can see manager Sylvester Sreeby down there at third base give these signals to Walter. And I can see the picture there. Mr. Deppler, getting ready to throw that first opening pitch of the game. So I tied in some of those that had deceased as well. So anyway, it was a great honor to go back to Marysburg. And I'm not here to boast, but in the year that I was inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame in Saskatchewan,

the Marysburg Royals team was also inducted. Really? So I'm kind of a double inductee. I'm inducted in the individual category, I'm sorry, I've inducted in the individual category, plus I'm also inducted in the team category. That's pretty cool. I find it to be quite an honor. Yeah, absolutely, an honor, yeah, absolutely. And now I've been a director with the Saskatchewa Baseball Hall of Fame for the past 10 years as well. Really? Yes. Yes. So how many, how many guys do you guys induct every year then. Is there a limit or is there is it? We induct from 10 to 12. 10 to 12. Yes. Because we're losing from the old days about 10 or 12. So to keep our membership up, we need to induct that many in order to, you know, get donations and sponsorship and support

and that kind of thing to keep the place going. And where is the baseball, Saskatchewan Baseball Hall of thing? In Battleford, Saskatchewan. It is in Battleford. It's one of Saskatchewan's best-kept secrets. It's quite an institution. A lot of people travel through it from all over the world. Australia, Germany, England, and if you're a baseball fan, they find it very, very intriguing, very, very interesting. There's a lot of memorabilia. There's, you know, all the names of all the individuals who have been inducted and the contributions they've made. But there's lots of equipment, old uniforms, old equipment that's on display as well. newspaper articles, things of that nature.

We're quite proud of it. The other thing I got to mention is to keep a team going 100 years, I'm on the board of the senior team out in Hillmond, and we've been going, you know, they started back in the 60s, and then they took about an 18-year-ish leave of absence, and now we've been going back for about 12 years, I think. And the effort it takes to go for 12 years is a lot. For a group of people to keep a team going for 100 years is something else.

Well, they're very, very fortunate in that they've got a nucleus of very dedicated, hardworking people, and they thrive on having this organization still existing today. You know, the community only has probably less than 50 people. You know, like in the old days, you know, farmers, you know, no, farm one or two quarters of land. So there was quite a large rural following. Community, yeah. Now as the farmers are getting larger,

and more of the kids aren't coming back to farm, they're having to go a little further afield as well to bring back players to fill out the roster. And Marysburg is east of Saskatoon, right? It's just north of Humboldt, about 10 miles. Okay, okay, yeah, yeah. It used to be kind of a thriving community. Even when I played there in the early 60s,

there was a grocery store, there was a filling station. It's a big grain growing area. There were elevators, big church and a community hall, a ball diamond. But now all that's left is the ball diamond and the community hall and the church. All the rest has been a thing of the past. A thing of the past. Do they still get lots of fans over for a game, do you think? Well, they'd have their rural...

fall on. Right. Back in my era, we'd packed a place. We played, usually in my era, there were tournaments held on Monday. Many communities had Monday closing back in the 60s. So you'd go to a tournament on a Monday. There'd be store closing on Wednesdays. So you'd go to those towns to a tournament on Wednesday. Then you played tournament ball Saturday and Sunday. What do you mean store closings? Well, back in that era, stores would close for the day on Monday in some communities. Other communities, stores would close for the afternoon, especially, on Wednesdays.

And why is that? Or do you know? Well, workers were only allowed to work, whatever it was, 48 hours or whatever. And that was just the tradition back in the air. It wasn't until... So when I read about you, that was one of the things I didn't quite understand

because with Marysburg Royals, you guys would go around to tournaments on every Monday, Wednesday, and then it said Saturday, Sunday, I believe. And that's why, because the little towns would have a day off and they'd have a tournament. And every town in Alberta and the Saskatchewan,

back in their era, would have a fields day or a sports day. That'd be the big thing. You know, they'd bring in eight, 12, 16 baseball teams that'd be maybe a circus or a fair passing to the community. It'd be rides for the kids.

The community would shut down. Everybody went to the ballpark. Everyone went to the sports day. It was a big thing. It brought the community together. There would be hundreds of people would come. And even Lloyd Minster, if you go through the history of Lloyd Minster, even back when they had that senior baseball team here back in the early mid-50s,

they were drawing 10,000 fans at that exhibition around baseball park. Isn't that crazy? It is. Lloyd Minster was only 6,000 people, but they were supposedly attracting 10,000. thousand people to some of those big sportsies that they were holding. That's unbelievable. It is.

It's a different era today compared to what it was back then. There wasn't much back then, but one of the fabrics that held the community together was baseball in the summer and hockey in the winter. Hockey in the winter. And there was no television or very little television. If you want entertainment, you went to the rink where he went to watch the ball game. Now you can pretty much drown in TV entertainment

that thing. Right. You know kids have found new interests like lacrosse and soccer and those kind of things. Absolutely, they're starting to thrive. And nothing wrong with that. But baseball, when I first came to Lloyd Minster, there was no baseball. In 1972, Lloyd Minster did not have baseball. Everything was fastball. Right.

And it wasn't until the Expos and the Blue Jays got going. And it was probably in the mid-80s, when baseball began to pick up again and Lloyd Minster. So they had their cycle here as well. And where has fastball gone? Fastball's kind of dropped off the face of the earth and Lloyd Minster.

He had lots of minor ball, but we used to have two eight-team senior men's fastball teams. We had two eight-team ladies' fastball teams back in the late 70s, early 80s. Fastball was the big thing. We had one of the biggest tournaments in Western Canada and Lloyd Minster. All the top teams from Alberta, Manitoba, Saskatchewan came to Lloyd Minster to play in the tournament of champions in May every year. Really?

I remember that. We had that tournament for probably five or six years before the fastball began to lose interest. Well, that's what we grew up as all my siblings grew up playing was fastball. My oldest brother, Jay won a national title with last year. Ashburn, the spurs and then the group of the other three boys went to Westerns and one of the couple times with the liners back in the day. Laspern, Bluebirds. Yes, yes.

One of the biggest teams in all of Canada. Yes, I've been trying to work on Deb MacArthur and Marilyn Donald and Brenda Stannifth. I've been trying to line up getting them in because they're all inducted into this. Doug of Brasmoff. Yeah, yeah, Doug Abrasemoff. I probably tortured last. There's many others. I can't think of all the names.

just now. But those all bring back very good memories. So did you umpire then those games as well? Oh yes. I umpired. I played baseball until the late 60. Yeah, let's stick with the baseball for a second because I anyway. I want to ask about the Revelstoke spikes. Spikes? Yep. What took you out to BC? Well, uh, I was going to go to teachers college and I was off. It was a year that the Transcant of the highway opened, and Revelstoke was booming, and they couldn't get enough workers. There was new filling stations, new fast food outlets being built, hotels, you name it,

and they couldn't get enough workers. So they were offering a few dollars more for workers than they were in Saskatchewan. And I happened to bump into a guy in Revelstoke, and he said, if you got a pulse and a heartbeat, you're hired. So I worked with this plumber, electrician, Tinsmith, for the summer. And we didn't work 24 hours a day. He found out that I knew, he found out that I enjoyed baseball, introduced me to a fellow, and he said, come on, try it for the team.

So I tried it out for the team and made the team. And they only played on Sunday. They didn't play during the week because people had to work. So I enjoyed that summer playing with Revelstoke. What did you think living in Revelstoke for a summer? I enjoyed it very much. It was my first exposure to the mountains and to British Columbia. So they were offering more money so you just took a trip out there to maybe take a gander?

Well, I wanted to make enough money to work myself through Teachers College for that fall and winter. And at that time around Saskatchewan, there just wasn't a whole lot of, you know, the reason I ask is because right now... I had a job, but the pay that I had on the job wasn't quite as good. They were kind of paying a premium for workers in British Columbia because of this trans kind of the highway that was opening and going through all these communities for the first time. Oh, how times have changed. Yes. See, and we go as far as Golden. We did a lot of work in the community of Golden while I was there.

I worked there from about the first of May until the first of September until teachers' call day started. And we'd work some pretty long days, but we always had Sunday off. So I made a fair chunk of change back then in that era, and that was enough to put me through school. I was married, and we had a house, and I had a mortgage, and between the wife and I, we were able to carry things through. You bought a house out in Revelstoke? No, we had a place back in Humbold. We had a house in Humboldt. House in Humbold, and you moved out to Revelstoke for a summer.

Well, and I lived with the people that hired me. Right. I boarded with them, and they were very, very good to me. We were very good friends until they passed away. Yeah. So anyway. And we won the league championship. Did you?

The North Oregon-Og and Baseball League Championship. And were you always the first baseman? I was always, I played outfield sometimes as well, but my main position was first base. I was left-handed, and left-handers kind of go naturally with first base. And I played outfield. I played right field a bit as well. But where was your spot in the batting lineup? I was usually about fifth.

Fifth? Yeah. Right in the middle of the power lineup. Well, no, the power guys would be ahead of me. And my job was to get on base and, or maybe advance those power guys. You advanced the guys right ahead of you. Yeah. Well, you weren't batting ninth.

That's for darn sure. No, I didn't bat. I usually batted about fifth, I would say. Maybe fifth, maybe six the odd time. Okay. But, no, I was up there and had a pretty good eye. It was a reasonable hitter. So anyway, that was my forte.

When did you officially retire from playing baseball? Oh, gosh. I can't remember exactly. It was in the mid-late 60s. I didn't play baseball many years. But I moved to Lloyd Minster then, and there was no baseball here. And I got into umparing because I was a teacher. I had summers off.

And of course... If there was a provincial championship baseball tournament in Fulda or Anaheim or Lake Lenore, they wanted an umpire. And because I wasn't teaching during July and August. You said, what the heck? I got the call. He went out and do our tournament. We're having a midget provincial tournament.

So I stumbled out there and do five, six games in a day for the weekend. What did you think of that? Oh, I enjoyed it. It was fun. What would you enjoy more? Would you enjoy mumping or ref? more? Oh, I enjoyed them both. I can't say that I probably had more opportunities to referee higher caliber hockey than I did umpiring. Baseball. Baseball. But no. Who are the worst fans hockey

or baseball? The worst fans. The worst fans were in a town called Watson, Saskatchewan. We won't discuss why. That's why? Well, an EDAM wasn't much better because they'd spit at you and throw eggs on the ice. Eggs? Yes. And they would have a lot of nice, polite profanity.

Nice polite profanity. I didn't know there was such a thing. Anyway. But no... What's the worst thing you've ever had thrown at you on the ice? Eggs? Probably eggs would be what the worst ever had thrown at me. Eggs is an interesting choice.

Well, they used to come with cartons of them, and they'd be equally thrown at the opposing team as well. I can remember some of those big series way back when, when Paradise Hill would play off against Edom in that, I forgot what league it was. Was it the Big Four League? It might have been the Big Four. Or maybe the North Sask?

Maybe. Not so much the North Sask, because Paradise Hill went their own way on a number of occasions. But they had very, you know, Johnny Rogers. Yeah. They had really, really talented hockey players. Owen Rogers. Yeah. They had really solid teams and eat them. They were big solid farm boys. And there was some pretty tough games back in that era. They filled those little arenas in playoff time. You had to get a shoehorn to fit them all in. But you ignored, and there was no glass back in that era. So you didn't go close through the boards because if you did, you know, you might get a shot to the head. So you'd

stay inside so they couldn't reach you and, you know, and there was a big enough crowd that you didn't pay attention to the profanity. You were concentrating on the game. What's the one game that sticks out in your mind then of interactions between teams, a line brawl, a bench brawl? Well, I remember my first bench brawl. It involved the wayburn. Red Wings and the Saskatoon Max. It was the Junior B playoff game. It was a two-game total point series. They had played Saturday night and had a pretty rough goal. And I was watching a hockey game in Humboldt Sunday afternoon and I was called to the phone. Here was the governor from the Saskatchewan Amateur Hockey Association asking if I could make the Saskatoon by 7 o'clock

to referee this game between Weyburn and Saskatoon. It's going to be a tough game. Nevertheless, I went, and unfortunately, later on the game, we did have a bench clearing. What do you do? You just stand back and let them go to it, and when they play out,

you start separating them and getting them off the ice onto their benches or whatever, and what else can you do? You can't do anything. There's only two linesmen and one referee. By that time, now we've prepared. rest to the three-man system, but when you've got six, seven, eight fights going out at the same time, there's no way. Let them fight it out. Let them play themselves out. What do you think of,

you talked about going from two-man system to the three-man system, and now they have the four-man system. What do you think of that? I don't like it at all. Why is that? Well, if you watch last year's playoffs, the inconsistency between those two referees was totally unbelievable for that caliber of play. And I can't understand why the guy who's the farthest away from the play would call a penalty in front of the fellow in front of whom the play was taking place. And the inconsistency, especially last year, there were a number of games when there were very, very major errors made in assessing penalties that cost loss of interest. Vegas that round against San Jose.

There was an air made in the call. And you think that's, what is that, two guys jockeying for position or just not wanting to step on each other's toes? Why can't four guys get together in a huddle and go, man, that wasn't the rank call? Even the one game, there was a goal scored that none of the four officials saw. I know exactly which one you're talking about. Yes. Now, what's going on?

Are they not paying attention? I mean, truly the goodness out of four officials, one of them should have seen what was happening on the ice. No, I don't like the four-man system. I like the three-man system. You have one official. He has a feel for the game. He has a feel for the tempo. He knows when he should step in and start taking control.

He knows if the teams are there to play. He'll let them just maybe get away with a bit more. one person has more consistency than you do when you have two different individuals as referees. Yeah, I'd probably agree. I always think the theory behind the format system is like, beautiful. It sounds so great. It is. And it never plays out.

It's well-intentioned. There's no question. It's well-intentioned. But we're only humans. And no matter who the two individuals are, they both don't see things in the same perspective. I don't care how good they are or at what elite level they're working at.

Each one of them has their own level of judgment. And that's never going to be the same among any two individuals. That's where I feel the discrepancy lies. You have one fellow, he knows what he's going to tolerate, he knows where to draw the line, he gets a feel for the game, he gets a feel for the tempo of the game,

He gets a feel for what the players are doing and what he can let them get away with before he has to step in. As a referee, you want to be inconspicuous. A good referee job is when the game is over and the fans and the players ask, who in the world was a referee for that game? We didn't even notice him.

When you have that kind of comment, then you've had a very well-refereed game. So that's my opinion. opinion. It's interesting. Yeah. There's a lot of refs out there that like to get in the middle of it.

Well, there are some referees who like to be authoritarian. They like to be the center of the attention. As I said, in a well-officiated game, the referee should be totally inconspicuous. Teams should have to ask when the game is over, oh, who refereed that game today? We didn't even notice him.

You being in a position of being the ref assigner and everything else, I suppose you mentored quite a few refs out of the Lloyd area, I would assume. Well, probably the most famous is Brent Riber. He was overseas currently. In Switzerland. Yeah. Brett was one of the first, if not the first, to be a full-time referee from Lloyd Minster in the Western Hockey League. And then he went on, he refereed in Japan for one year.

And while he was in Japan, made connections. to referee in Switzerland, where he became the referee in chief of the Swiss hockey league. And even after he retired, he was still giving clinics and assessing officials and involved in that capacity. I understand that now Brent has stepped aside completely from officiating. Did you notice something different about him back when he was younger? Or was there... Well, Brent was... first of all, a very good hockey player.

Okay. He could skate like the wind. There weren't very many people in the Lord area that could catch up to Brent. And he could skate backwards as fast, if not faster than forward. So that was one of his... Great attributes.

Yes. Yeah. And I taught Brent, and I remember one time in class we were talking about officiating, and I encouraged a number of boys out of that class to give it a try. and he did and he enjoyed it and chose to make that his lifelong career.

That's kind of special, isn't it? It is. Brent's a very special person in my life. And normally when he comes home, he usually calls me and we have a short visit, have a coffee together. And he did call me this summer to congratulate me on my 80th birthday and on our 60th wedding anniversary. So I had a short visit with him on the phone on that occasion.

But Noah Brent's one of the special young officials from Lord Minster that I admire very highly. There are others. Brian Morrison is one of mine as well. Dwayne Lundquist, Frank Spenderath. There's quite a number of young fellows that, I didn't mentor them, but we worked together and got them going, and they themselves enjoyed rewarding refereeing careers. Was there anything that you imparted on them wisdom-wise,

on when they first started out reffing? Just be yourself. Don't go out there and try and be a showboat. Don't try and be authoritarian. Be yourself. And call things as you see them. Be honest. Be fair.

Be consistent. Well, let's switch to, I got to ask. I was reading... See, I have three claims of fame in my life. I mentioned number one. Glenn Hall. that I was the first basement that replaced Glen Hall.

My second claim to fame, I was the founding president of the Humboldt Broncos. Well, that was the next thing written on my paper. And the third claim to fame is the Lloyd Multiplex. I was involved in the committee that raised close to $500,000. I didn't have a significant role, but I did contribute. There was five or six of us, Brent Allen, Doug McMillan, Dwayne Lundquist, Teddy Harland, I'm forgetting one or two, but we organized three big banquets at the Stockade Center. We got involved with the Edmonton Oilers, and they supplied guest speakers and players to come out to represent the team at each of those functions.

And we were able to raise just under $500,000 through those efforts for them all. And my role as well, I was a liaison chairman to the user groups. So if there was a user group that had a concern, say, soccer. Okay. They'd come to me and say, you know, we need to have this, this, and this. And I'd go to the committee and bring that to their attention. So I had kind of a minor role, both financially and in the organization of the multiplex. So it's kind of...

Which has become a special building in the community. and very special for me as well. And I make sure that anybody that comes to visit, they get a tour of it. Yeah, well, it's a beautiful facility. You know, the only thing you wish now is that there was probably two more ice sheets on the stinking thing,

because in Lloyd specifically, there just isn't enough ice. You know, I've really got to admire the committee and even the council of the day. When they built at Russ Robertson, there were cost overruns. So they made cuts here and there. So it became a smaller ice sheet,

They had very small dressing rooms, very small waiting area. With the multiplex, it was the decision that we would not cut corners. If the costs were rising, we would find the money to cover those additional overruns. And that's what they did. And I'm very proud of them for sticking to that commitment. Yeah. Well, you speak to the Russ. Russ was notorious for the small dressing room, small lobby.

Have you been in the Russ since? Yes. My grandson plays hockey. and I was just there here maybe a month ago or so, and they've made some major improvements. Major improvement. I mean, the ice surface is still small, but everything else has been,

I mean, they've done about as much work as they can possibly do. It's a minor hockey rink. That's right. That's what it is. And it fills that need, and that's important as well. What do you think they should do? The Civic Center now has come up as being needed to be torn down. That's a real challenge, you know.

we're in a downturn in the economy and to raise funds to build a new arena is going to be a real challenge. I don't know how they're going to be able to fit it in. You got to get the right people, don't you? You just talked about a group of people that got the multiplex rolling. I was very fortunate to be a part, you know,

when it comes to Helmand, I get to be involved in a lot of different things. and we just did this hockey day in Saskatchewan that saw Marty McSorley come play and Wade Redden came home, and Corey Cross, uh, Corey Cross,

Lance Ward from Lloyd came out and played. And then we had a bunch of the Border Kings and the Home on Hitman. And, you know, we had SGHL hockey game, the North Balford, Norristers came and played Notre Dame, right? And, uh,

when it was all set and done, it was over $200,000 we raised, uh, for that event. And if you put on and put the work in and get the right people, I think you can move a mountain. It's just getting the right people involved to push it and put the hours in and everything else.

You see, like I told you earlier on, that fastball was big. Well, back in there you had Mike Lamb, you had Roy Noble, Don McDuff, Don Kohl. There was a nucleus there of about 8, 10, 12 people who had children of their own that were growing up and wanted to participate. So they carried the bulk of the long. load in improving the way.

And then back in the area, you had like Owen Noble in that group who were very strong supporters of the border kings. So they were a strong organization during the presence of that group. And now you've got a new group coming in that's taken over the baseball. But if you can find the right mix of people that are not afraid to work, it can be done. But it's not easy task. Not afraid of work. That's the key one there, right? Like, it's interesting.

Well, I mean, you're a guy who's seen many decades. Has there always been people afraid of work? Or is it something that's becoming more prevalent? Well, you always got a nucleus of people who are leaders in the community and, you know, that rise to the occasion and carry the community, build the community. You're going to have those who don't care. They're not participants in sports or whatever the interests are. And that's just the way it is.

But as long as you can find those who are not afraid to work and who've got good ideas and, you know, can put them to fruition. Who is one of the guys or women, for that matter, that you had the pleasure of working with that sticks out to you? Well, Mike Lamb. I taught with Mike. We were very close friends. and he was the real head push on Legion Park,

all those diamond improvements, organizing all those men's and ladies fastball leagues that we had back in the old days, organizing that big tournament of champions. You know, Roy Noble was a hard worker, Don Cole, Don McDuff, that whole group. They were all good workers. But Mark, I'm sorry, Mike,

was kind of head and the shoulders just above everyone else. Yeah. Especially to be around somebody like that. Yes. Yeah. And he spent a lot of time of his own. Look, he ran all those bingoes years ago to raise money to support those ball diamonds.

And not just that. He had groups from town work. So if your hockey team needed money, your hockey team would spend a night a week or a night a month or two nights a year or whatever. And whatever proceeds were the profits for that night and work went to your organization. And he organized all of that. He had all those. I had no idea. Every minor hockey team had a night or two during the winter where they would run the bingo

hall. The bingo hall. And Mike organized all of that. From my time era, if you ask any kid around my age, probably five years, well, yeah, I'd say five years after me. And for sure, 10 years before me, everybody remembers working the smoky bingo hall. Right. And don't forget, we had two bingo halls at one time as well.

We had the bingo hall, which was now the convention center, and you had that bingo hall just north of the ballparks. I don't remember the convention center. We always worked the one by the ballparks. It shut down first. It went for quite a number of years. And then finally when the fair board took over and made it into a convention center, well then the bingo was starting to fade. The interest was fading. So we only had the one bingo hall out there north of the ballparks.

but Mike he was the organizer of all of it he called the bingo callers he called representatives to come out with the different teams to do the work and so on and he organized those leagues he was a very hard-working individual

he knew how to be organized and that's what you have to be in that kind of a situation you got to be on top of things and have the good contact Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, if you're a hard worker and people see that, well, that kind of makes them perk up as well.

Yeah. You know, if you're kind of a deadbeat, well, then the rest of the guys, they're not going to want to be quite as involved. But if they see how hard you're working, well, then they're going to step up the pace as well. We've got to talk about your second claim to fame. We've got to talk about the humble Broncos. Okay.

You were the founding president? I was the founding president of the Humboldt Broncos. You've got to lead me through this story because I find, well, the fact. Well, it was 1970. And in 1970, there were a number of very strong hockey teams in the Humboldt area. There was very strong baton, midget, juvenile, and junior B in the surrounding communities of Humboldt. The Swiftcourt Broncos were looking for a farm team, junior A, talent. players that they could use to

build their roster. Yeah, that's right. So Mike Shabaga, he was the manager and coach of the Swiftcern Broncos at that time. He called the recreational director in Humboldt and asked if there was anybody that he could meet with

to make a proposal for a junior A franchise in Humboldt. I was quite involved with sports. I was chosen, as was Dr. Jerry Rooney and Mel Dajny. So in late April or early May of 1970,

we arranged to meet with Mike Chubaga and he laid out his proposal for a junior franchise in Humboldt. He was going to provide us with six key players. Those players included Terry Ruskowski. He went on to become a star with Chicago and Pittsburgh and six or seven teams in the National League. He was a prolific scorer and team captain.

Mike Indra Chuck, Les Gould, Goulde, Dillon, Travis, I can't think of his name right now, first name. Anyway, and Gordy Dillon. There were six players that would be the nucleus. One of them was Tiger Williams. Tiger Williams? Tiger Williams of the Toronto Maple Leafs and Vancouver Connect. Was that Humbold?

He was 14 years old, tried out for the Humboldt Broncos in 1970. And how good was he at that age? Well, I remember him in the inner squad game. He could score whenever he wanted to. He probably scored a bushel of goals. You can guess how many of that was. Anyway, he also said that he would provide two sets of uniforms, away and home.

His first question was, do you think Humboldt can support a junior team? Well, Humboldt had a junior team, the Humboldt Indians under Scotty Monroe. And Scotty left Humboldt, rather unceremoniously, left who had a bit of debt to move to Estevan where they had just finished building a new arena in the late 50s. So Humboldt were hungry. Did they turn into the Estaband Bruins then? The Estevan Bruins at that time were in the Western Canada, the Junior Hockey League,

with Lethbridge and Trozeness Pass. I can't recall all the teams just all. Regina, Moose Jaw, were some. of the teams in that old Western Junior Hockey. So Humboldt was thriving and thirsty for junior hockey. To come back. Anyway, he laid out the format and when we got done, the committee that I was a part of, we met with a number of other community-minded people and ran the idea past them.

And they all jumped on the bandwagon. Yes, we're prepared to help sponsorship. We're with you. Go for it. So we carried on, we found a coach, manager, we contacted players from those teams that I mentioned earlier that we felt were top-notch prospects. We had a training camp, formed the team. Anyway, because there was a referee, and now I was also president of the Humble Broncos, I felt there might be a bit of a clash of interest. So I said, you know, I think I better step aside.

I'll still work behind the scenes and help with fundraisers and whatever else, but I can't have my name front and center as a team representative when I'm refereeing, because I'm going to be refereeing, home games in Humboldt or Prince Albert or wherever else. So Jerry Fincaddy was appointed to be the president who took office after I stepped aside. But I did still work behind the scenes. I conducted two very successful sportsmen's dinners. during the summer to help raise some funds for the team. Worked behind the scenes in that capacity.

The first year, did I read it right that Humboldt went to the league final? The first year, Humboldt went to the league final. They lost out to Weyburn. They beat Saskatoon Max in the first round. They defeated Malville in the second round, and they lost out to Weyburn in the final. And that's the year that Weyburn had Dennis Sobchuk, we went on to become an NHL star.

He virtually handled that team single-handedly. But they went to the final, and in the second year, Humboldt went to the Western Canada final. See, there were no tournaments back in that era. So would they have won the league and then went to the Western Canada final? Well, they beat Manitoba. They played Dauphin in a very brutal series before going on to Red Deer, and then they lost out to Red Deer.

Redder were a very well-established team and had more experience. And I believe they may have had Brian Sutter. And then Gordie Dillon, who played for us in 7071, was from Red Deer. He stayed home and played for Red Deer that year. And we were able to improve his skills enough and he kind of single-handedly beat us

in a few of those games in that Western Final. That's pretty cool for an upstart team to have that much success early on. I know you didn't. Well, we had good coaching and we had good management. Unfortunately, the initial coach had to be dismissed only after a few games. I think we started the season with about a seven-game winning streak. But there was a conflict with the coaching, and the initial coach had to be replaced. and we replaced him with Dr. Terry Henning,

who had played a fairly high-caliber hockey. He played for the University of Huskies. And he was a real gentleman. He was a fine technician, strategist. He respected his players. He respected the players of the opposing teams. That's the kind of gentleman he was. And although our team maybe didn't have the most talent

because of his coaching and treating us, of those boys, they gave 125% and were able to achieve the success that they enjoyed. Did you ref a bunch of the Humboldt games? I did. I refereed the very first game the Humboldt's ever played. On November the 11th, 1970. Ganks Melville, and Humboldt won,

despite the referee. So you stepped away from being president and then you walk in. Well, I was a referee already at that time. Right. So, and I was refereeing in the Junior League already, so it was only natural that, and, you know, things were sold out house, I assume. All the games were sold out. And, you know, there was a standing joke about going to Humboldt. It was only a standing, every game was a standing room crowd only. People stood from the start of the game to the end of the game. No one sat down. And they packed that old barn. to get a, use your shoehorn to fit everybody in.

Again, it was the 70s. There wasn't much going on. And it was very entertaining hockey. It was good hockey back from that era, and people supported it. And we had a lot of, you know, players from the Sorbonian communities, Drake, Lannigan, Watson, Leroy, you know, and they attracted their friends or relatives. So it worked out well for everyone.

And Humboldt was always successful. I think I'm not trying to boast, but I think Hubble is one of the most successful Junior A franchises across all of Canada. I think they're looked up to by all the teams all across Canada. You mean championship-wise? Not championship-wise, organization-wise. Okay. The attitude of the team, their sportsmanship, their style of play, was the attractive. acting to spectators.

Yeah. And, you know, they were success. They had some rough years financially, but as a rule, they were one of the teams that was better off financially than most. Than most. I was curious, too, I read,

I think it was in 1973, that refused to play against Portageville Prairie for excessive brutality. I was curious what excessive, excessive brutality meant? Well, there were at least three players that were injured to the extent

where they could no longer continue playing that winter, that playoff round, and one of the boys, who's name I've forgotten, I don't believe, has ever played a game again since then because of extensive nerve damage. Portis of Prairie were a very brutal team.

A lot of stick work, a lot of body work, you know, and a lot of it was, I didn't watch any of those games because I was living here, but there was a lot of deliberate attempts to injure. And after, I forgot in the weather, there was two or three games, the coach and manager felt that they couldn't live with themselves if other players are going to get hurt so seriously that it would affect them for the rest of their lives. So they met with the board of directors and the decision was made that they would not.

continue. So they were suspended, but once the CAA reviewed the matter, the penalties were all lifted and the team was reinstated. That's something you just don't hear about Boulberry. No. Ever. That's the, we had, Dr. Terry Henning was a manager, and he was a doctor, and Dr. Rooney was the manager, and he was an optometrist. But they were, they were very outstanding gentleman and it wasn't in their character to play that type of style to retaliate first of all or to play that style of hockey they'd rather suffer the consequences rather than seeing before their own eyes their own players being subjected to that brutality to where it may affect them for the rest of their lives hmm so when I've read excessive brutality I played a lot of

hockey and seen some things. And I couldn't think of what it, well, I mean, everybody kind of has an idea, but for a team to take a leave of absence in the middle of playoffs. Well, even the year before in that series against Dauphin, I watched that series, Dauphin were a very brutal team as well. There was a lot of stick work and a lot of attempts to injure. Don Laroie was one of the star players of their team who went on to perform with Houston in the old

World Hockey League was a star. He was a brutal stick. The stickwork that he used and the elbowing and spearing and all that butt in and all that kind of thing. We wouldn't do that. A humble boy is, we wouldn't let a player in our team play if that's the way they were going to perform.

We were there to play hockey. We weren't there to become involved in anything that was not a part of the game. I got to, we're going to jump way forward here, but I know you've been inducted. We talked about the Baseball Hall of Fame in Saskatchew. You've also been inducted in the Alberta Hockey Hall of Fame, correct? Yes, and also the Lloyd Minster-Kinsman Hall of Fame.

So, oh, okay, I did that. There's one I didn't. Okay, so Alberta for reffing then? Yes. And what year was that? I was in 2011. I was inducted in the individual category as a builder. And it was mainly through the assignments, assigning positions I held that I earned that honor.

Did that come as a surprise? Very much so. I never ever expected. I did my thing. And when I was done, I retired and life carries on. I never ever expected to be honored in such a fashion. So it was a surprise and a very great honor to receive that induction. And how about the kinsman?

That goes back quite a few years. That goes back to about 1981. And it was just for being a volunteer and contributing to the community. I was involved in the formation of the Lloyd Minster Blazers. the Junior B team. Back in about 75, 76. Really? Back in, yeah, yeah, before they switched over.

I was on that original executive for a short time as well. And I was involved in the formation and organization of that team. I don't know, the bandits. And besides refereeing and assigning. How the heck did you make time for this all? Well, as I said, you had to be organized. And I had a very understanding wife. And she was my back.

I'm a lot of credit to my wife. I was thinking, it's been stuck in the back of my head. You said you met your wife and then I cut you off after a hockey game and humbled, I believe you were about to say. Back in the old days, when hockey games are over, the mothers of the home team would serve lunch. You'd get to meet the other team. Okay. And it was on Boxing Day of 1996, when the game was over. the opposing team invited us to one of the houses when they were having a get-together.

And my wife just happened to be there and I was introduced to her. And that was in December. And then that fall in September, she was going to school in Saskatoon. And after a show, I happened to bump into her and her friends. And as I wanted to go for a coffee and we did. And we've been together ever since. Rest is history, as they like to say. Now you have the rest of the story.

And now you know the rest of the story. And she must be an amazing lady to allow you to have been a part of, well, as much as you did. Well, I think she got as much enjoyment out of it as I did. And she was always involved with the presidents and governors of all the different leagues. And they'd always have nice things to say about her. And she felt good about that. and they said the odd good thing about me, and she felt good about that.

She was quite heavily involved. And she also ran the concession at the Russ Robertson for a winter or two as well through all of this. So we've tried to give back to the community. We haven't come to Lloyd Minster or we didn't live in Humboldt to take. We're well treated,

but we've always tried to give back to those communities as well. Is that something your parents instilled in there, or is that something you learned? Or is that, like, how do you... Well, I was born in a different era when nobody had anything. And neighbors visited, help each other. And that's just the way it was. If work needed to be done, whether it was harvest or whether it was, you know, slurring an animal or food for the winter,

all the neighbors came together to help each other. And when he moved to town, we kept that same mentality, trying to help it wherever we could. There's people all over the place that are like, they don't come in hundreds. Well, Lloyd Minster has a very strong nucleus of volunteers. No matter what the event that Lloyd Minster hosts, they have no trouble getting support and volunteers.

to run that program, whatever it may be. So Lloyd Minster is very, very fortunate in that way. Well, we've been going for roughly an hour and a half. So at this, yeah, it's funny how time flies and you're having a good conversation. At this point, I always do the Crude Master Final Five. I'll shout out to Heath and Tracy McDonald. They're supporters of mine.

Heath and Tracy McDonald, they're Hillman folk. Okay. Yeah, and they, uh, huge supporters of the podcast. So we do this final segment called the Crew Master Final Five. I'm going to ask you five questions that are, we can talk about them for as long as you want or as little as you want. And the first one is, if you go back to your 20-year-old self, what advice would you give you?

Well, be yourself. Give of yourself. Don't take advantage of other people. I think that's the advice I would give. Get an education. give back to the community support your friends support your family

I think that would be the key if you could go for coffee with one person famous unfamous doesn't matter to just have a good old-fashioned conversation who would you want to sit down and pick their brain well one individual that I admire very much is Brent Riber

and he would kind of be at the top of the list he was a good hockey player he was a student of mine he was an excellent student he's a gentleman in all regards and he's living in Switzerland and

I would enjoy visiting with him and exchanging all the experiences that he has in his officiating career if you could take a time machine and go to any place anywhere, where would you take it to? Well, I enjoy baseball, and that would be to probably a baseball game, perhaps a World Series

game, maybe in Yankee Stadium. I've never been there. Never been to Yankee Stadium. I haven't been to Yankee, or Fenway Park. If I live long enough, maybe one day I'll enjoy watching a game in one of those two parks. But that would be a wish on my bucket list. Yeah. Well, you talk about two-storied franchises.

Those two rise right to the top, don't they? I'm sure there's a couple more Chicago pops to mine, but... Yeah, that's right. Mind you, Yankee Stadium is replaced. Fenway is still the original. Or Wiggly Field, even. Wrigley Field? You know, those old ballparks, apparently when you walk into those fields,

it's just a different, yeah. You feel a different atmosphere. Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of history there. Exactly, yeah. If you could pick a reffing crew, and we'll go with two other guys, since you think the three men is the best,

who would you want on the ice with you? Well, my top team in my era was refereeing with Brian Morrison and Wayne Lindquist. And the three of us would take turns. In one game, I had referee, and they'd line. In other games, one of them would ref. and the rest of us would line. Really?

Does that happen anymore? Well, things are different today. I don't know whether the officials all travel together anymore or not. Like we'd travel together to Wainwright, we travel together to Vermilion, wherever. And the fellowship back in that era was as important a part of the officiating as the game itself. You know, I don't want you to take that in the wrong way,

but you develop friendships and when you were on the ice it was business it was strictly business the referee called the game the linesmen call their lines when the game was over the game was done now it was time to let your hair down

maybe enjoy a cool one have a good visit rehash the game in their way home or you know that would be my top team so was that the hardest thing about retiring then is you know like hockey guys

I think of myself The day I retired, the toughest thing to walk away from. I mean, I love the competition, but the dressing room hanging out, that camaraderie. It's the camaraderie that you miss the most when you retire. And so to kind of fill that void for quite a few years, I acted as a scorekeeper and penalty box person for the Border Kings. And back in that era, it was the Blazers. We're in the Junior B League. and the lances, the junior 18.

Yeah, yeah, when they played in the SGA. So Ray Burgess was a close friend of mine. He and I did most of the scorekeeping and timekeeping for about 10 or 12 years after I left the officiating. So I kept my toe in the door somewhat. It doesn't surprise me that riding, do I think of hockey right now? I ride out with the same two or three guys to a hockey game.

and we go to all the away games together. It's a lot of fun. That's one of the main reasons. If it wasn't fun, you probably wouldn't be doing it, right? That's exactly right. And so it doesn't surprise me that reps have the same thing. When I started, a lot of the games you did, there was no fee involved. You did the game because of your love for the game.

I probably did as many games in my early career for nothing as I did in my later career when leagues and teams did provide some compensation. And I got to tell you another story. I don't know if you want to record this or not, but I lived in Humboldt, and Humboldt was very close to St. Peter's College at Munster, Saskatchewan. Okay.

I don't know if you've heard of Munster or heard of St. Peter's College. St. Peter's College was a boys' school, and it used to be from grade 9 to grade 12. And then in later years, they dropped to high school and it's now a first and second year university college. They give various classes that are recognized by the University of Saskatchewan. Well, they needed a referee, and I got to know several of the priests,

and they'd ask if I'd mind coming out to a referee. Would I mind going with them to their out-of-town games? No. Well, here was the catch. Humboldt and area was a very strong Catholic community. St. Peter's College was a Catholic community. Catholic school and had very strong support. So if they were going to go play a game in Nipoen, or if they're going to go play a game in Kindersly, they needed vehicles. So the people of the surrounding area volunteered their vehicles. So if there was a dealership in Humboldt or if there was

a doctor in Humboldt who said, yeah, we'll lend you my vehicle for the trip to Kindersley, that would be a way to get that vehicle from Humboldt to Munster. So guess what the priest's strategy was? Then have that referee, old Leo Warton, Humboldt, pick up the vehicle, drive out to Munster, pick up the team, or five or six players, and drive those players to the game, and drive them home. So I got to drive a lot of very nice vehicles. And I can remember one in particular. It was Dr. Junk's, was a big Lincoln. You could fit the whole hockey team. It was the first vehicle that ever drove that had automatic lights that changed.

when you met a car. When you met a car and you were on high beam, you could switch to low beam. It would switch to low beam automatically. And I drove this great big boat of a Lincoln. Wait, wait, you didn't have to switch anything? You didn't have to flick anything. That's what you're meaning?

I just drove the steering wheel and had my foot on the gas. If I approached a car and I had high beams on, it went to low beam. Automatically. Automatically, yeah. That was back in the late 60s when that, innovation. No kidding. He came in, yeah. But anyway, I had the honor of driving the players to their games

because of people at Humboldt volunteering a vehicle and they themselves couldn't go or it was a dealership. Right. And I'd get to run a brand new vehicle. Take the players to the game. I had to move after the game. Take the vehicle home for the night, take it back to the dealership the next morning. Never had any issues of plowing a deer or anything. Like that? The only incident we had, and it was very, very close to the exact spot where the humble Broncos had their misfortune, one of the priests drove his car into the ditch. It was a real, it was a blinding snowstorm.

When he left St. Peter's College that afternoon, it was a beautiful day. The sun was shining. There wasn't a cloud in the sky. And as we were going to Nippewan, it got overcast, it started the snow. And by the time we left Tisdale, it was a blinding snowstorm. and we were driving slow but unfortunately one of the priests going to the ditch

and the motor was totally blocked with snow ice we couldn't get it out so we all potted into the other cars and had the game the game started late the game started about 10 o'clock that night we finished the game

there was no way we were going home as we stood over night and next morning we went out and there were snow plows now they pulled the car out and we took it back to Nippewin and had the motor all cleaned out and got home in time just for the next game that night, that Saturday night. That was the only incident I was ever involved in in all the years that I officiated. I traveled a few miles in that time, but I never had an accident.

You guys didn't think about taking like a van or a bus. You didn't do that back in that era. There were no buses. Nobody had buses back then. Everyone traveled in cars. You know, there'd be five, six cars. but you know, four or five players per car. Away you went.

That's the way they went back in the air. It wasn't until probably in 1970 when we formed the Humble Broncos. That was the first year that we had a humbled recreational bus to, now they would take other teams as well. Broncos had first priority, but if there were other teams' midgets, baddhams, peeves, they were going a fair distance rather than having five or six cars go,

The parents and the kids would all pilot into the bus, and they'd pay the bus to take them to the game and back. But that's a very recent innovation. A lot of things have changed. A lot of things have changed. In those years. Some to the good. Final one.

Who is the best player you ever had the privilege of being on the ice and roughing? There were quite a few. There was a kid in Humboldt. McDonald. Well, there was quite a few. Orr's Kinderichuk with the Pittsburgh Penguins. I refereed him in his peewee in Bannam days.

Clark Gillies that played for the New York Islanders. I refereed him. Dennis Sobchuk. Those were among some of the best that I ever... Had the privilege of being on the ice weather. And there's others, and I just can't think of their names. Just offhand. Ralph Cawson

from Munster, who played with St. Louis. for quite a few years. There were quite a number of talented players. John Paul Kelly from Lloyd Minster. What was JP like? I had JP as a coach. He was strong, strong skater. He was built like a ton of brick. He had strong arms, he had strong legs.

He was a power skater. And he was, he minded his business. The only unfortunate part was all the opposing teams seemed to have Their goon looking after John Paul. And he took a lot of abuse, but he wasn't one to

necessarily retaliate. He was a strong, strong skater. Strong shot? Good player. And there's us in Lloyd Minster as well, Wade Redden. The guy starts thinking, there are many, but all of those

would rank up there at the top. Awesome. Well, thank you for, finally we finally got to do this. I really appreciate it. I was happy to sit down for a couple hours and kind of listening to hear about everything you've done and been a part of and it really appreciated the last couple hours. Well I thank you for the opportunity and I found it very enjoyable as well. Thank you very much. Thank you.