Shaun Newman Podcast - Ep. 82 - Jason McKee - Vernon Vipers

Episode Date: May 27, 2020

Originally from Irma AB Jason's playing days had him go through Junior A, NCAA Div 1, back to the WHL & then onto Pro in the ECHL. His career was cut short due to a baseball swing of the stick to the face (I kid you not), but it is his coaching career that sticks out. He was apart of the Spruce Grove Saints where he would win 4 AJHL championships, a CJHL coach of the year award and the honour of coaching Canada West at the U19 Junior A Challenge. He spent time with the Vancouver Giants of the WHL & now is the head coach/GM of the Vernon Vipers. All episodes can also be found on YouTube & Spotify

Jason McKee, welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Happy hump day, folks. Welcome back to the podcast. First off, it's a, it is a lovely Wednesday. They announced Gary Bettman. I know not a whole lot of us love Mr. Bettman, but he made a big announcement yesterday that the NHL is in fact going to have playoffs.

I mean, when this, they're figuring a way to get around it, which means 24 teams are in the playoffs, which means the Oilers are back in the playoffs. picture the playoff hunt they're facing the Chicago blackhawks in the first round I'm excited I'm excited that pro sports whether it is a month away two months away is coming back very very soon as you can tell him a little fired up it's hump day it's Wednesday next website up and going shan newman podcast dot com go take a look if you got some thoughts on her leave me a leave me a message send me an email. There's ways to do that right there. You can listen to the episodes straight from there.

It's pretty simple. I like things simple. So I'm very impressed with it. I got to give a huge shout out to Red Bicycle. The ladies over there help me put it together. So thank you very much, ladies. Really appreciate it. It has been something that I've wanted to get done for a long time. And of course, when I can't get something done, there's always somebody out there who's talented in doing that and that this time was the red bicycle ladies they did a fantastic job so a huge shout out to all of them that helped put that together let's get to some of the sponsors of today's episode lordminster regional health foundation would like to thank our local health care team who responded so quickly due to the covid-19 pandemic our local hospital leaders move fast to secure

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Lori LaBerge, Abbey Road, flowers and gifts, temporary, close to walkins, but are doing curbside pickup and free in-town delivery. 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. 780, 875-2211. Treat the misses, right, get her some flowers. Wandering Wild has teamed up with Let's Walk the Talk. If you go online and you buy any of the Let's Walk to Talk gear that's on the Wandering Wild page, $10 of it goes back to the local charity. They're giving it to Project Sunrise, so it all stays within the community. Wanderm Wild's got a whole bunch of kick-ass gear out there. So help support Stacey Jubanville and then Paula Berger with Let's Walk the Talk. Credit Athletics, check them out on Instagram or Facebook. I believe they still have a deal going on where if you spend $100,

you get $25 back to a local business of your choosing. Lots of cool things out there in the White Minster community. Let's help support everyone that's going through this. Reminder to subscribe and leave it. some feedback on whatever platform you're using while listening to the podcast. I certainly love hearing back from people letting me know if, you know, if there's things you like, maybe there's something you don't like. It's all good.

It's a growing process. It's a journey. And if you guys like things, want to see some different things. Maybe you got an idea for a guest. Let me know. I'm always open to ideas. If you missed last episode, it was Ambrose Furcus. We sat down and chatted about his journey.

and what a journey it's been for him thus far. I highly suggest you go back and give it a listen. Now, the Factory Sports Tale of the Tape. This guy's originally from Irma, Alberta as well. He played his junior A with the Lloydminster Blazers back in the day, led the team in scoring back-to-back years as a 16- and 17-year-old. After two years, sorry, at the age of 18, he took a full-ride scholarship to Michigan Tech at the NCAA Division I.

after two years he went back to the W.HL to the Seattle Thunderbirds played his 20-year-old year. He then went to the East Coast League where he had played a year there, and at the end of the year, he had his career ended by a karate chop to the face. I mean, a baseball bat swing to the face. You'll hear about it. It's pretty, well, you just don't hear about that too often. His coaching career has saw him with the Spruce Grove Saints for 10 years. He was there for 10 years during those 10 years.

He was an assistant for the first bit, then the head coach. They make the finals seven out of ten years and win it four times. Now he is currently in the BCHL coaching the Vernon Vipers. I'm talking about Mr. Jason McKee. So without further ado. Welcome to Sean Newman podcast. Tonight I'm joined by Mr. Jason McKee. So thanks for joining me.

All right. Thanks for having me. I guess when I look at your career, there's a lot of things that stick out, but I thought we'd start way back at the beginning. Being born and raised in Irma, Alberta, I thought maybe we could just start from there. Irma's got a pretty solid history of hockey players, ball players, just sports in general. Maybe you could talk us through a little bit of growing up there. Yeah, it's a small town, about 500 people, and there wasn't a lot else to do other than sports.

I think that was kind of when you're growing up. You had your winter sports, your summer sports, your, Your spring sports, all four seasons. So that's kind of what we did. And, you know, there's been a tremendous amount of, you know, athletes come out of, out of the area in a variety of different sports. But, you know, specifically hockey for sure. There's been, especially lately, there's been some young guys come out of there

and reach the National Hockey League, American League, college hockey, Western League. There's, you know, in junior A, there's numerous amounts of people here in the last, probably decade that have had a lot of success coming out of that town. So it's great to see. and as a former, you know, that's my hometown. It's definitely fantastic to see some of the, you know, guys that I grew up with, you know, and now having kids and seeing their kids have success too.

So it's been fantastic. What do you think it is? Is it the water? Is it the protein? Something in the water, yeah. My team, the Oilers, yeah. But no, it's, you know what, I just think it's just an opportunity.

I think the facilities they have for a small town are tremendous, you know, the commitment from the community, the adults, the volunteers, the time that goes into it when these kids are young, I truly believe that's a huge part of it. It's just that commitment and, you know, first-rate facilities for the size of it, like I said. So it gives everybody a tremendous start. And then obviously, you know, as you get to higher levels, you're going to have to travel a little bit more. But I think at the grassroots, they do a great job in all aspects. And it's pretty crazy. They, even in, what is it, June, they have the month, a month where they bring the ice back in

an Irma. I mean, obviously not this year with everything going on, but. Yeah, the last few years they've done that. It's, it's been great. I just think it's just in that area now, not just normal, but, you know, the surrounding area, there's a lot of athletes, especially particular hockey players. And it's a viable option now because there are so many players that are training and playing at higher levels, like I said. So it's, it's fantastic for the team, or sorry for the town. And it gives those guys. guys, they don't have to go as far away to try and get training. They got ice there right now.

And there's a lot of talented trainers in that area as well now in regards to, you know, on ice and off ice as well. Yeah, we get to see a bunch of those kids now here specifically in Lloyd. And on the show, we've had a bunch of them come on and had some of the trainers come on. And, I mean, it's pretty cool just to see, well, once again, like a little tiny talent, like you say, produced so much in that area and this area in general, just how much talent has come well to the town. talent has come out of here. I mean, you've got to see a lot of it. When Spruce Groveview,

you had so many of them come through your program there. It's amazing. Yeah, it was a, it was a good pipeline for me. I think, you know, having history in Lloyd Minster and then having history in Irma as well, there's been a lot of athletes. So I think in the recruiting process, that definitely helped. And like I said, it's, I think that area has always been a, you know, a good spot for developing players. But recently, like I said, in the last decade, it's been, you know, a lot of players are coming through there. And, you know, you follow along the best you can. But, you know, in regards to Spruce Grove, it was fantastic because, you know, you got the support, you know, not too far away. You know, some players have to travel a long way to play junior. So it wasn't

too bad for them that way. And a lot of those kids were, you know, real fabric guys for us in our culture that we had in Spruce Grove. Well, let's rewind the clock to 19. If you can go that far back. Yeah, sure. Yeah. How old were you at that age when you moved to Lloyd to play for the Blazers? Yeah, so I kind of how it started is I ended up moving my last year of Peewee. So I played a year of Peewee AA there at the time.

And, you know, I played some summer hockey when, you know, back in the day there was only, you know, one or two teams in summer hockey. So it was, you know, I was kind of where. I realized that, you know, you want to play against the best player. Sometimes you're going to have to move away. And it was tough at that age, but I started there. So I played a year of Kiwi there and then one year of Banham. And then we had a really good team in that area. And then I was fortunate to make Junior A as a 15-year-old in Lloyd.

And, you know, that first year was, you know, people that followed the team back then. That was, you know, probably our best known player at the time. would have been the Andrew Hanna's of the world. It was our leading scorers. So, you know, we were able to get in there our first year. And, you know, we ended up losing the first round. But for me, as a young guy, it was a tremendous experience. You know, it was looking back, you always wonder, were you too young?

But I learned a lot, had a lot of fun. And, you know, if I had to do it over again, I would. So it was a fantastic year. When you go back to that, time. Obviously, I can't remember when the Bannam draft comes in. Was it Bannum draft going by then? Was it 89 and it came in?

Yeah, yeah. I was, I think, a fourth round pick to Red Deer. So I definitely had some tough decisions to make. And, you know, at the time, I felt like it was probably the right call for me to give me a little bit more time to develop in my game. And, you know, it's funny. I'm one of those players. there's a few of them that are in my playing time that did the college and came back and played major juniors.

So I've done both routes and I've coached in both leagues. I've played in both leagues. So it's, you know, I tell everyone the same thing. It's both are fantastic routes. Both are great leagues. You just kind of got to pick what's best for you at the time, what you think is going to be, you know, most beneficial in regards to your career and education as well. And some guys, it's a better fit one way.

In some ways, it's a better fit the other. So it's always a player's choice. And what I say is, you know, if your brother went one way or your cousin or your friend, it doesn't mean that that's got to be the way for you. And you got to do what's best for you in your career. And I think that's probably the best advice I can give any young players and making those decisions. What was it for you then that led you to the junior A, you know,

being drafted by Red Deer? I'm sure that had to have been appetizing back then. What stuck out to you about the Junior A? Yeah, it was, you know what, I think it was a situation where I was comfortable there. You know, I'd put in a couple years before that, so I was already in school there. I was a young guy still, you know, 15, 16, still, you know, working your way through high school. So definitely had the, you know, had a good fit there for me. It was a good fit in Lloyd at the time.

And the school side was good. And for me, it was important at that time. It was pretty good students. So, you know, it was just a thing where at the time, you know, it was just a thing where at the time, that was the best thing for me. And also opportunity. I think, you know, in Lloyd, I was, you know, going into my 16, 17-year-old years. It was, you know, a pretty featured guy, which, you know, every player wants to play. So, you know, one of the combination of those things, I think ultimately is, you know, the decision I made at the time. But, you know, like I said,

I ended up coming back and then playing as a 20 in the league. And, you know, both, both are fantastic. I've got, you know, great memories from both sides. Well, how about your final year in junior, or junior A, that is, before you go to the NCAA, you put up 28 goals, 50 assists, and 78 points for the team lead. That's pretty decent for a D-Men, if you ask me. Yeah, so it's funny. You know, I play a little bit of forward and defense. At that time, I was predominantly, you know, mostly forward.

So I put up, you know, pretty good numbers. We played the point on the power play. So any time you get that opportunity to, to kind of play in those roles that your numbers, if you're doing a good job, you should put up some decent numbers. So I was, like I said, that was a big part of, you know,

the reason and decision was just getting that opportunity to play those crucial minutes. So, you know, I was, like I said, I played a lot of forward, but on special teams, for whatever reason, on the power play, even growing up,

I played a lot on the point. So, and then that, you know, I went to college and was predominantly a forward and then kind of transitioned, you know, to more of, little bit more defense by last year junior.

Just by default, we had a couple guys away at World Juniors and injuries, and we were down to three defensemen. So they asked anybody if they'd ever done it before. And I said, yeah, a little bit, I said on special teams. So away I went, and we went on probably a real good stretch there over Christmas. And it's crazy. You know, my first full month of playing, I think if I remember correctly, I got defensemen of the month in the league.

So, you know, it was a strange thing. It was good for me for my career because I was able to do both and play both, but sometimes things just happen at a necessity. And, you know, it was good. I thought I helped our team more that year and back there. And we were able to add a real good forward in Allen Manus at the deadline and make our team stronger. So, you know, at the time, it was probably best for me in the team. And that's kind of why we did it.

But it wasn't by design. It was more by accident. That's crazy. I didn't realize that. But that's... Yeah, it's different. I got a little bit some unique stories for sure. It's starting as a forward, finishing as a D, flip-flopping,

and like I said, playing in both leagues, coaching in both leagues. So it's been good. You know, it's given me great perspective on a lot of different things. What position do you prefer? You know what? I like both. I think for me, I felt like I was able to control the game more on the back end.

Just, you know, being in those spots, having the puck. You know, that being said, it's a lot different when you're, you're checking when you're chasing a guy as a forward rather than them coming at you full speed. And there's some good players, obviously. So it was definitely a mindset transition for sure. But most coaches said I tended to probably affect the game, you know, from the back end a little bit more.

But, you know, that being said, I enjoyed my time up front too. I, you know, I love the whole pursuit, the hunt of the puck. You know, everybody likes to score. So it's, you know, at the time, it was just whatever I needed to do to help the group. And to answer your question, I'm not. not sure. I think I'd probably pick D, but it's just so much fun to play. You know, a shout out to Quinn McIntosh, my defense partner, my second year junior, he was a guy who was converted from forward to D, and he was a hell of a lot of fun to play with because he just moved differently

than any D man I'd ever played with and saw the game differently than a standard D man would. Yeah, I think that's kind of what coaches told me. I was, you know, I had the ability to kind of know where guys were before I was coming back to get pucks, I kind of knew where guys were. And, you know, I had the confidence to make the small area plays, a little pop plays in front of the net to your center, just, you know, little things like that. And I attribute that

just from playing forward and having the confidence to make those small area plays in your own end instead of the other end. So, you know, like a lot of coaches say, the best defense is breaking pucks out where you're not spending time there. So, you know, I think that's what I was able to do. I wasn't

the biggest guy at the time and the rules were obviously different back then. And, you know, I had to kind of use your, use my brains, my smarts, my anticipation to help me in those areas for sure. And the less battling I had to do down low, I didn't want to give my size and disadvantage away a little bit. So I knew that if I could get back to pucks and move them quickly, you know, that was in my best interest for sure.

Who was, who was coaching the Blazers back when you were here? Yeah, I had a few. My first year, I had Gord Skeen, who, who caught. who coached me in minor hockey. And then I had Boris Rbalka. I think he got his start there. I'm not sure who was his first junior. I think it was.

So he was there. He was obviously now on cameras. And then after that, on my last year, I had Gortibito. So some guys that have been around a while now. But they were younger back then as I was. But some pretty good coaches. Seeing so many different looks from the back end or the bed. I bet you take a little bit of some of that from what you've learned from a player to being now standing there yourself.

Yeah, 100%. I think there's a couple of key things that for me that allowed me to gain confidence as a coach, especially as a younger coach, was being able to play both positions, you know, practicing them both, learning from coaches, drill specific things, detail habits for both positions. I think that helped me a lot. And then, you know, playing for good coaches as well. You know, I learn different things from different coaches as a player and as a coach. And I think you got to be your own person. You can't try to be someone you're not.

But I always believe you can take certain parts from, you know, successful coaches and whether it's hockey or other sports and try to steal a few things from them and mold them into kind of, you know, your way of doing it. But, you know, I don't think you can fake anything. think you've got to be real of who you are and the players will pick up on that. But I've been very fortunate to play and work with some great people. And you'll probably hear that a lot in the hockey world, but I'd be no different. I think I'd be foolish not to think that I wouldn't be, had some success I had without

great players, but great people around me to help me for sure. You mentioned Gordon Tibado coached, yeah. I had him on probably a few months ago now. but he's the all-time winning his coach in the AJ. And we talked about his time in Lloyd and how he got to Lloyd. What was his stint over coaching you like having a guy like Gord here? So I think the one thing I learned from Gordon, what he brought in that year, he kind of came in about halfway through, if I remember correctly.

And we weren't doing well. And, you know, we were a long shot to get in. And, you know, when it was all said and done, I think we felt two points short. And he brought us a long ways back. from pretty much, you know, being out of it. And the one thing that I learned from him as, you know, as a coach now, is just the importance of work ethic as a group. You know, I think we had players that worked hard,

but as a group, I didn't think we, looking back, probably worked as hard as we need to as a group. And when he came in, he demanded that from all the players. And I think when all the players started to buy into that, our practice habits, our intensity, everything just went up. And there was competition in the practice. it wasn't, you know, those are things that he brought in and, you know, a real professional approach about how we were going to do things. And, you know, guys started to buy in and guys

started to see it and we started to get the results. And, you know, I think that was my, you know, from a young player, you know, moving forward, that would be one thing that I took away from court is just the importance of work ethic, not just amongst a few guys, but your whole group, especially coaching, there has to be a standard. And if you reach that standard, you know, good things are going to happen. So he was a great tactician, you know, nothing, you know, simple but effective. But it was it was all about one-on-one battles and winning those hard areas of the ice. When you say demand, you had a coach for part of the year where it wasn't working.

And then you had another guy come in. And when you say demand, how did he earn that? Because I think we've all probably had a coach who's come in and tried to demand things. and it hasn't gone over that well. What was it about Gord that made that work? I think he was well organized. You know, I think he came in and he had a plan every day of what he wanted to do. And we could see that, that, you know, there was a reason behind what we were doing.

He had a philosophy of why we were doing it that day. And whatever we were trying to achieve and practice that day, you could tell right away what he was trying to do. And he was a good teacher at it. And the drills that he used allowed us to show us where we needed to be in certain spots in the ice. And then just the whole competitive nature. And the practice itself, I think, you know, our mindset just changed a little bit. And he just forced us to do things in a different way than maybe we were doing it before. And there was no gray area, you know, there was, you know, guys would wear certain types of helmets in practice that, you know, probably weren't certified for games.

and he came in and he changed that, you know, like everybody's going to practice like they play, and I'll never forget that. And I think it was just a culture thing where, you know, his demands, his expectations were high. And if you didn't meet him, it didn't matter who you were. You know, he ultimately controlled the ice time. But, you know, Gord's, you know, back then,

he was hard on guys, sure. But if you played hard for him, he played you a lot. So I always appreciated that about Gord and, you know, learned a lot from him. And he's a guy, especially early when I was starting out in the league that always had a lot of admiration for and still do. But, you know, as a player, you know, that was something that looking back now and being in the coaching profession, that wouldn't have been an easy situation to come into. And he did a fabulous job of getting a turned round. I like how you say there were players not wearing certified helmets.

I think we all remember those helmets that. that's interesting demanding out of a practice we've all heard the line practice you practice like you play or you know you need to show that work ethic in the practice for it to spill over into a game and sometimes you kind of forget that or players can forget that i know i certainly can yeah no it's uh i think you when you surround yourself with uh like-minded players or your culture has a set establishment of how it's going to be and there's no negotiation on it, you're only going to get better. And I think that's the, you know, I always tell players, especially recruiting in junior A is,

you know, everybody says they want to win, but, you know, how are you going to win? You know, what are you going to do to win? You know, it's easy to use those words. But, you know, it takes its toll and it's in demand. And, you know, you should never fear, you know, playing with good players, you know, the more players, good players I could bring in as general manager, I still believe it today is that you're practicing against the best, you're playing with the best, there's no better model to get better.

So I'm a big believer in that. And practice is such an important key because it gives you confidence going into the game. Because you know you've done it, you've done it the right way. And like anything, and like you've done it before and you feel good about something, you know, the results will take care of itself. You like being the GM and coach? Yeah, I think I do. I think there's definitely benefits to it. You know, in the recruiting side, if the GM likes you, the coach likes here, right?

I think it's that one guy, whereas in some situations it can occur where the GM may have different thoughts and maybe the coach. But, you know, for the most part in this situation, you know, when I'm recruiting players, you know, I think it gives them confidence to know that I wear both hats. And if I like them as a, you know, as a general manager, I like them as a coach. That's a good thing. There's a lot of different hats that you have to wear doing both. jobs, it's very busy, it's demanding.

You know, it's a 12-month job. I tell people the only time my phone probably doesn't ring is Christmas Day, and other than that, there's always something going on. Junior hockey is a big business, and there's a lot of moving parts that, you know, maybe the average person wouldn't know about, especially behind the scenes. It's not just what you see on the ice or in the rink. There's a lot of other things happening. So, you know, I'm always involved in all of that,

and you want to make sure every, you know, every part of their day is full and every part of their day is productive. And, you know, at the end of the day, parents are trusting, you know, me to do those things with their sons. And, you know, for the most part, I've had a good run and then had some great players, some great families. And, you know, I feel energized and I love what I do. Well, that's being able to do what you love. It never feels that busy. time seems to fly when you're when you're doing things you want to be doing. Absolutely. It's, it's great. There's never an issue getting up in the morning because it's,

it's never the same day. You know, it's never the same thing. It's very rarely. It's, it's always something new and there's always a new challenge. And, you know, we've got 23 different faces that you're dealing with on a daily basis. And there's going to be challenges individually with players, things you got to work on. And as a team. So it's, you know, for me, there's no monotonous to it. It's always new. It's always fresh. And I think that's what makes it great.

And like I said, I feel very fortunate to have played a long time and coached a long time now and been a part of the game. It's been a part of my life ever since I can remember. So I'm, you know, I feel very blessed to be still in it for sure. How has recruiting been with everything that's going on? Yeah. You know, people said, are you slow? And I said, no, it's actually probably busy. easier. You know, there's more, you know, we were either going to win our first round or lose

our first round and eventually you're going to be going through the recruiting process at this time of year. So the only difference I'll say is I'm doing a lot more of these things where we're video conferencing and, you know, talking that way rather than maybe in-person meetings because of the situation. But, you know, a lot of players are very educated. Families are very educated now, so they have a lot of good questions. And, you know, it's not a situation where it's one phone call and, you know, decisions will be made. Each player takes time and they have to be comfortable and we have to be comfortable.

It's kind of like a two-way street of marriage if you want to call it. So it's been different this year. Like I said, probably more busy than normal. But just because people have time now to put a little bit more time into those conversations and, you know, our networking calls we have. you know, you can't go watch any tournaments or anything right now. So a lot of it's based on, you know, what you saw early, video you can watch and a lot of it,

so you've got to trust your networking because some of those guys would have seen some of the players we're looking at more than we would have. So it's been a little different that way, but, you know, I think we're all in the same boat. I feel good about where we're at. You know, we haven't made any announcements or official things like that, but we're trending in the right direction there. And I would say as a general manager at this point in the year, I'd say 50% of my work's done.

And, you know, we're still, we're still holding out hope that, you know, at some point we might be able to have a camp at some point in the summer. And that might not be realistic. It might be. I don't know at this time. But we just got to be flexible. I think that's the biggest thing. We can't be set in our ways here. We got to, we know the situation when we're going to have to adjust, no different than, you know, I ask players to do at times.

I got to be flexible. I got to adjust. And we will. How tough was it to have the season end so abruptly? It was very difficult, and it's never easy for any team, but we were up and down this year and, you know, inconsistencies in our game, but I thought in the last, you know, in the playoffs going into it, you know, we were able to kind of unturn some stones and just kind of made our group a lot better, and we were playing truly our best hockey when it mattered the most.

And, you know, we went in and we played a very good series against Winachi, and we won in five games. But, you know, all aspects of our game were good. Our power player, PK, our individual play effort. It was everything kind of came together for us at the right time. And when you've kind of been up and down all year and you're playing that well, you can feel it in the room. And, you know, our next opponent would have been Penticton, who was an elite team. But I felt like we were, you know, the makeup of our team, you know, would have matched up well against them. just the confidence we had.

So it was tough to end it for our group that way. I really felt for our graduating players, especially our 20-year-olds, they'd work so hard. They were really the core of our team and were really carrying us. And to not know it was your last game, I think, as a player, that's tough. You know, when you have closure, it's one thing, but no closure and they were playing well, It was really hard. It was one of the hardest conversations I've had.

And, you know, there's no words I could say at the time that was going to make it any better. And that's, you know, as a coach, you know, sometimes you got to take different approach just to different situations. But that one was just no one felt good about anything. And, you know, I was the voice that had to pass on the message. But it was, it wasn't easy for anybody. I know those 10 minutes were awfully difficult when I had to let the group know. coming from former players you and i i can't imagine not being able to play your final game you're always you know especially as a 20 year old especially as it was it was really hard

because they played so well and they deserved to you know keep going you know and when it gets taken away from it's it's tough and you know there's no reversing it obviously and not a lot anybody could do no one had answers so it was just one of those things it was was real difficult for everyone, but we'll get through it, and they'll get through it, and, you know, they'll keep playing, and, you know, it'll be one of those kind of black holes that will always stick with everyone, I guess. Yeah, well, they'll have an interesting last game as a 20-year-old. A lot of 20-year-olds can't say that. These guys, every single last one of them will have that. Before we go any further, I have to let the listeners know that they're hearing birds chirping in the background and that you

You are the first guy to have, to do this outside because you can, obviously being in beautiful British Columbia, you got a nice backdrop. Yeah, no, it's good. It's beautiful out here right now. It's this evening. It's about, I think, both 15 degrees out still here at this time. So I know that the family's inside doing there and the dog's in there. So I'm going with the birds in the outside so you guys don't have to hear the dog barking. being an Alberta boy now everywhere you've coached would you will you ever leave BC again

I think in coaching you got to be you know flexible and you go where where your career takes you a little bit but it's a fabulous place I I visited obviously through when I was younger but never really you know lived out here for an extended period of time until I started coaching out here and it's it's fantastic you know there's great things about you know Alberta I'm an Alberta guy and I love Alberta and I love going home so I think we're we're just blessed and especially you know in Canada in general but you know in the two provinces that I have the most history with I feel pretty pretty blessed once again but it's it's fabulous like you said this area doesn't get a lot of snow so it's the weather's great and there's always lots of activities to do but you know

it's a different cold out here with the rain and that took a while to get used to but I do miss the bright sunny days and some of the, you know, the snow and the things that come with having snow as well. So, you know, it's, it was a good change. It was a time I needed a change at the time. And I think, like I said, both are fantastic, but we got a great little setup here for sure. Yeah, well, you're not losing any sleep when we get minus two the other day and the wind's just howling and you're like, what is going on, Lloydminster? Yeah, I don't miss that at this time of year. That's for sure. Let's talk about Michigan Tech.

You play three years for the Blazers. Then you sign with Michigan Tech Division I, NCAA, and you head out there at 18 years old. What was that jump like? Well, it was huge. And the thing that, my advice to players, is don't go too soon. And there was no internet back then. It was, you know, you'd get a magazine or a book,

and you'd see the pictures, and they'd fly you down. look and you know I I knew a few guys from from junior you know I had a connection obviously with at the time devon Hartnell who played in Lloyd as well and obviously that name will resound with a lot of fans because I think all three boys played for the Blazers or Bobcats at some point so that was kind of the connection there and you know I wanted like I said the familiarity was good and they did a good job and the biggest thing for there is you know I had different options different places but a lot of some of the schools wanted me to come back and play another year. And I couldn't wrap my head around that at the time.

Why are they asking this? You know, I felt like I'd done what I needed to at that level. But so I did come out to Michigan as a, you know, as a true freshman, an 18-year-old. And I got my eyes opened up pretty quickly about how good the league was, the preparation that the players had put in. And it was a big jump plan against 23, 24-year-olds, you know, coming out of your 17-year-old year.

So just the strength part of it, the speed, I wasn't ready for it. And I think nowadays players are much more educated on that jump and what it looks like because of media coverage video, all that stuff that's available to these guys. And people are just better educated, clear and simple now. So if there's one thing that I would do over is I definitely would have played another year of junior, I wasn't ready at the time. And to go in as a true 18-year-old freshman even nowadays, you've got to be an elite, very good player.

And there are examples of that being done. But for the most part, I see a lot more players, you know, play out their 18, 19-year-old years or even into 20 and end up going and then playing college hockey afterwards. And, you know, I've never had a player come back and say, coach, I'm glad I left a year earlier, but I've had a lot come back and say, I wish it would have stayed another year.

I think it would have been more productive for me. and the team in the four years that I had there. So it's not a rush. And I think the fit's got to be there for the team and the player, but the players got to be ready. And I think if you're dominating at one level and you're confident, then you know, you're ready to take that next step. But, you know, if you're not there,

it doesn't mean you're not going to get there. It just might take you a little bit more time. And I think that's the one thing about, you know, that route is it does have time on your side so you don't need to rush things. So, you know, for me now, that's, that's some of the, advice that I try to pass on of the players. You know, it's it's not about me, you know, trying to hold players or keeping them back because if they move on, it's good for our program.

It's good for them. And it helps me recruit the next class. So it's just about timing and making sure that they're prepared for that jump. But it's, it's a significant jump. I would go on to say that I think it's probably the biggest jump they'll make in their career. I think going from college to pro afterwards is, is going to be a jump. But that you're talking about, you know, the pace, the strength from junior to

to college, it's a big one. How tough was that first year then? Yeah, it was tough. Yeah, you go from being the guy and playing a lot, playing in all situations, and then you go to a situation where you're just clawing to be in the lineup, you know, and that was a big change. We had older guys, and they were good players, you know.

So it was, you know, just a situation. Like I said, if I had to do it over again, I would have been a year older, a year stronger, and some of those players would have moved on to pro or graduate. and that gap would have been that much smaller for me to try and overcome. And it just, it was a lot, you know, and I think that was, that was the, that first year was a real eye-opener. A second year I thought went a little bit better. But, you know, once again, I was still just, you know, 19 years old and, you know,

was still trying to find my way against, you know, older competition. So, you know, it was, like I said, it was, it was a good experience there. The school was good. You know, love the league, all those things. It's a big jump, especially for young guys. And if you're 18 and 19 and not playing a lot, those are big development years. You know, I think you've got to have the puck. And, you know, we just decided as a group to, you know, that following year as a 20-year-old,

that it would probably be, you know, been my best interest to try and get somewhere where I was going to play a little bit more. And I think that was, you know, why the decision was made, nothing other than that. So why go to Seattle then? yeah so it's interesting i you know once the word kind of got out that i was thinking of coming back um Seattle had a real good team and i believe red deer still had me on their their protected list so um you know at the time red deer was they didn't know exactly you know where they were going to be i think they had a good team but Seattle was you know ranked i think third in the all across the country that year and they had real high expectations and they had a lot of guys coming back so

So they did a trade in the summer and they acquired my rights and then kind of started the recruiting process there and ended up deciding to go there. So that was kind of how it unfolded. You know, Darryl Plandowski is a guy that kind of was, you know, behind that a little bit, another guy in Lloyd there. But he was at the time working for Seattle or helping them out. And that was kind of my connection a little bit through them. And, you know, it was just a good fit. I knew they were going to be a good team. I knew they had a lot of returning.

And as a 20-year-old, you definitely want a chance to win. And I'm not saying that couldn't happen in Red Deer, but it just, you know, for whatever reason, they saw something in me and wanted me and made the trade. And it ended up that I ended up playing there as a 20. How crazy is it? You know, your episode, I think you're episode 82 now. And I hear that connection thing over and over and over again.

You can almost see in a guy, any one person's career, how they follow or have somebody pull them to an area. And I hadn't even made the connection. Daryl's been on the podcast. I hadn't even thought about that. Him hooking you up with getting you to Seattle. That hadn't even crossed my mind. But that's interesting. And I'm sure you see that all the places you've been.

I mean, in Spurs Grove, it's evident with all the kids coming from this area. And Irma, I mean, you're very. connected to this place for sure. So I mean, that's, that's pretty cool. I hadn't really thought, or given much thought to Seattle. I had stared at and went. I wonder why he went back to Seattle after two years in the NCAA. Yeah, and that's kind of, yeah, you go with people, you know, or a little bit or trust, I guess. And I think if people, especially as a coach now, if players come in and have a good experience, they're, they're my number one marketing tool. If they, you know, if their family is happy with the player's development and the player had a good experience,

they're going to tell, you know, anybody that asks, you know, all about it. So I think that's the number one thing that, you know, I'm happy about is that these kids are getting good experiences. They're moving on. And, you know, I'm able to use those contacts throughout, whether it's the coaching world or old parents or players previous that have come through. It's, I think the game is all about relationships and you're going to build those throughout. And you're going to have friendships that last a lifetime and, you know, through colleagues or, you know, you know, even former players now going to weddings and things like that. So it's, it's fantastic.

Like I said, there's so much that goes on outside of the rink, you know, even on a personal note with these guys as they get a little bit older and they see them moving into, you know, doing different things in their lives. It's very rewarding. And, you know, I'm at the age now, like I said, where I'm starting to, you know, that first group is starting to get, like I said, get married, have kids and move into their own, their own things. So it's been fantastic.

And like I said, I wouldn't, wouldn't change it for the world. world, but you're 100% right. Your network will grow as you put in time and you're going to lean on different people for advice, especially when you're making big decisions, whether as a player as a coach and, you know, no one, no one can shoulder everything on their own. So the more people you have around you that you believe in and trust, it only makes your job easier. Absolutely, yeah. That leaning on people you can trust is a huge thing. Having the ability. Yeah, I think you want to surround yourself with good people. And I think that, you know, having that trust factor is huge and having everyone on the same page.

And, you know, I attribute a ton to that of any success that, you know, how to this player, but especially as a coach, having a coaching staff on the same page. And we've been very, you know, fortunate to coach with some great people. And I've always felt that there was, you know, that connection. And if there's not, the players will feel it. and there'll be a disconnect there. So it's paramount that everyone's on the same page. And you can't fake it.

You know, trust is real and it has to be genuine. And the way you build that is through your experiences together. And I think as time goes on when you work with someone, you just start to realize, okay, he's really good in this area. And I can lean on him here. And he can lean on me for these things. And you kind of build a partnership amongst your staff as well. And then that partnership extends to your players.

We got to talk about the ECHL for a second. You go there for a year, right? You play your 20-year-old year out in Seattle. Then you head to the ECHL for one year, correct? Yeah, one year, yeah. One year, three teams. Yeah, yeah, it was interesting. I went to a real good team in Richmond,

and we were doing well and kind of caught me off guard a little bit. I was a young guy. I kind of knew I'd be that, you know, five, six, seven defensemen. And so I was comfortable in that. We were doing good. Ended up getting traded, which was like my first time. So I was like, whoa, what's going on here? Like, what do you mean you're trading me?

So it didn't feel like it didn't draw or anything. But so, yeah, it was just a hockey train. And, you know, I was my first time going through that and ended up going to Baton Rouge, which, you know, great group of guys there as well. And, you know, it was just a situation there where, it probably wasn't working out for me or the coach at the time and it just probably wasn't the best fit. I probably played a little bit of a certain style and he probably wanted a little bit more looking back, probably a little bit more predictability. As a young guy, an offensive guy,

I was trying to find my way in the league. So I thought at the time I had to do certain things to get noticed and sometimes those things backfired. So we kind of just didn't, this didn't workout and ended up getting moved again to what are what are what are certain things yeah you know I just I think for for him at the time and uh you know being a coach now especially looking back uh in a pro environment they're based on wins and losses you know and that's the way it is and I was a young guy and uh you know I don't think he was really you know wanted to take a lot of chances on me at the time when he had proven guys there so you know once again, it was, it was tough to kind of, to gain his trust or, um, as a, as a player, it just kind of

felt like it didn't really matter, good, bad, or indifferent. I was always going to be in the same situation. So, um, you know, it just, uh, it wasn't kind of working out. So it wasn't like I, I asked for a trade or anything. It just, you could just tell it wasn't a good fit. And, uh, it's really the only time in my professional career where as a coach or a player, where I, I didn't feel like there was a connection there. So it was, It was different. Like it was hard and so I ended up, you know, getting, you know, moved one last time and ended up in Birmingham, which, you know, they were struggling at the time, but got a chance to play and played quite a bit and really enjoyed my time there. And, you know, unfortunately, I got a real bad injury at the end and had to get surgery done on my nasal passage and nose. And it was a big one. And I had to sit out a year. So once I sat out that year, no hockey, no nothing, I couldn't do it. anything because if you get your blood pumping and you blew the there's a mesh in my plate

aside of my face it would too much risk so they the doctor said you have to take a year off so I came back and you know finished you know school at uva become a teacher and then you know met some people through there and kind of got into Vimy Ridge the hockey program there and it was kind of a decision do you go back and play or do you start into the next phase and you know the next phase was eventually going to come. It was just a matter of time. And I just didn't know if that situation was going to be there down the road. So I decided to move into the next phase.

And looking back, like I said, I have some regrets not going back and playing a couple more years because I think I could have and had some fun and had, you know, some better years. But I just wasn't willing to pass up the opportunity, you know, in front of me to get into that school and be a part of that, you know, situation. there. And, you know, looking back, I think it was definitely the right decision. But yeah, regrets, I wish it could, like I said, played a couple more years. But I still wouldn't pass up that opportunity to go back.

What on earth did you do to your nose? Well, this is one of those stories that people don't really know about. But if it happened today, you know, the player would probably still be suspended for a decade. But I got hit, like with basically a baseball swing with a stick. It was just a situation where some frustration set in on the other side, the other player. We'd actually been traded for each other. That was the trade. As one guy went one way, I went the other way.

And I don't know if it was a personal thing because of that or what, but I still don't have the answers, but it was one of those nasty ones that you hear about from back in the day. And it was bad. And I had to, like I said, I had to get surgery. And they went up, you know, I had to go through and get some mesh in there and some different things. but it's, um, some orbital bone things, uh, sinus passage, uh, nasal, all that stuff was basically reconstructed. So it was, uh, the guy that did it was, you know, fantastic. And, uh,

you know, looking back, you know, feel pretty lucky that he was in Birmingham at the time, because, um, you know, as years it went on, you wouldn't be able to tell. And, uh, you know, if it wasn't for him, it, who knows what it could look like now. But, uh, he did a great job. Um, It was a frustrating time for me in my career for sure because there was really nothing warranted because of before it. And, you know, it was frustrating for sure. But, you know, if it doesn't happen, I don't know. You know, where am I now? I don't know.

Like, everything happens for a reason, I guess they say. You're telling me you didn't escape by them and give them a little poke, nothing? Nothing. We went in the corner together and just kind of like a puck battle and I turned, the puck went up ice. So I turned to go up the ice and I was skating up the ice and the next thing I know I'm The yeah, he was behind me and kind of the old baseball swing and and And I just remember it dropped me instantly and seeing stars and there was there was quite the broula after it. I heard so I wasn't part of it, but they got me off the ice But it was one of those not so good ones it and honestly it's not talked a lot about but you know there was a lot of video back then but if it if it happened

happened nowadays, like I said, the punishment would be severe for sure. But, you know, he did get, you know, a substantial amount of games for sure. It's not like it was swept under the rug, but just one of those incidents, wrong place at the wrong time. And, you know, it definitely, you know, affected my career without a doubt. We talk about the 20-year-olds this year losing their career to COVID. Yeah. That's one way to lose your hockey career. Like, holy crap. Yeah, it was, it was a bad one for sure and you never forget it that's for sure and you know you talk about moving to bc and in alberta when i get really cold i could feel it it would go numb so that's how i'd get out of there but no it's it's it's it's one of those things it's over and done now at the time it was not great

and it was hard to to mentally get around like when you heard the words you know at 21 that you have to take a full year of hockey off that's that's the last thing you're thinking about right it's, you know, where am I going to play? Am I going to come back and, you know, try to play university hockey or am I going to, you know, try to go back and play, you know, minor pro? Those are the things you're thinking about, not about, you know, I got to be real careful here else I could be back, you know, for a second surgery. So it was really there was no decision to me. Hey, he didn't give me a decision. He basically told me you have to do this for the, you know, long-term health of your body.

And he said after a year, you should be fine. But he's like, you have to look after it. going to take a long time to heal. So that was it. How fun was your only year of pro though? I assume you don't have a girlfriend at the time. Every time you're traded, it's not a big deal. Yeah, yeah, no, it was good. No, nothing really timed me down. It was, it was, it was great. You know, I saw a lot of different places and was able to do a lot of different things. And, you know, it was a good time. And like I said, the first one really, really caught me off guard because it kind of been the first time it happened. And then, you know, after that, it was, you know,

I met a lot of good, a lot of people and people I still, you know, in touch with today. And, you know, it was, it was good to see how different, you know, older players went about their business. Was it the highest level? No, but, you know, there was guys that were very serious that were trying to get to the next level. And there was obviously guys that had been in the league a long time and kind of knew their place. But there was a lot of different people in different parts of their career. But, you know, that being said, you know, everyone was real good to deal with. And, you know, just anytime you're in the game, it's a good, good thing.

So I enjoyed my time down there. Saw a lot of different parts of the states that I would have never, ever got that chance. So it definitely gave me some life experience for sure. When you look back on it, what's the one city that you played in that sticks out playing in the East Coast? Was there a group of fans? Was there a team? Was there a team name, a city? You know what?

I don't know if there was one spot. that, you know, Florida at the time was real good. Like, I remember them being a really good team. They had a good run in the East Coast. I'm not even sure if they're still in that league anymore, but at the time they were kind of the place to be. And I remember going in there, we definitely had our hands full.

And, you know, they were really good. But, you know, I think, I don't think there was one spot that, you know, I was looking forward to or anything like that. To me, it was all new. And I think in your first year, like anything in any league, every place you go is like, oh, wow, this is, you know, interesting or different, or you hear different stories from guys that, well, this happened last year or whatever. But anytime it's your first year in a league, it's always good to see the buildings and see

the different things. And, you know, like I said, there's not a lot of surprises in life anymore. So any of it's new is always exciting. When you come back and you start into Vimy, is that what you do then until you start coaching? Yeah. So I kind of got into Vimy and just, it's funny. Steve Hamilton is a very good friend of mine now and, you know, mentor. And that's kind of how I got started into all this.

And I kind of finished, you know, my university and I was his student teacher, actually, and how we met was through a softball tournament, if you could believe that, was slow pitch. And he was a guy that we brought in that I had no connection to. We just ended up sitting down across from each other at breakfast and we got talking. and he actually went to Northern Michigan, and I was at Michigan Tech, and he was obviously there before. And that kind of started a lifelong friendship now.

And, you know, he was already there. And I said, hey, I'm looking, you know, I got to find something. He's like, well, you should come and see what you think. And so we worked it out and did that there. And, you know, I was able to make a good impression amongst the staff there. And kind of knew that that's what I wanted to do

and kind of got my foot in the door there. And then, you know, I was playing a little bit of, you know, senior hockey back home a little bit just to kind of help out a little bit, just stay active. And, you know, he came to me after a couple years and said, you know, we're looking for, you know, an assistant coach. And they were going through a transition year, the first year in Fort Saskatchewan. It was going to be his first year as a head coach.

I think they'd only won, you know, eight or nine games a year before. And my first question, I still remember this is, do you guys have a chance to win? Because, you know, I don't want to be part of, you know, something that's going to take a lot of time away that if there's no chance. And, you know, he sold me on the whole rebuild part. And they did a great job. You know, Jim Crosson was the general manager at the time. And I was there.

And Steve Hamilton, Ryan Marsh, who's in Saskatoon right now. And then Dustin Schwartz, who's the goalie coach with the Oilers. I was our staff. So, you know, at the time, I don't think any of us knew the, you know, history or success that we may have moving forward. But it got involved with them. And I fell in love with coaching. I really did.

I always liked teaching. But I love the coaching part. of it. And, you know, as time went on, I just kept getting more and more involved and emotionally connected to it. And then, you know, as I say, the rest is history. I, you know, was an assistant for four or five years with Steve. And then when Steve went to the oil kings, you know, I took over in Spruce Grove and that kind of gave him my first start as the head guy. So, you know, it's funny how, like I said, certain things happen. If, you know, if I don't sit down for breakfast with them across the table, who knows, right? So it's just,

one of those things. What is it about Spruce that, like that between in the last 12 years, you guys are Spruce, you're not at Spruce anymore, but Spruce Grove and Brooks specifically in the AGH have been the top. Now you can sit there and go, well, there was a little bit of this, a little bit of that, but there's something else. I mean, that right there, I mean, you walked in at the ground level when you, you, you walked in at the ground level when you, you guys were trying to turn that program around. There must be, you know, now you're in Vernon.

I assume you're trying to instill some of the things that Spruce had in those early years. What were some of the things that you guys really tried to implement as you tried to build up to that peak level and then hold, obviously, that peak for the next however many years as you try and stay at top? Yeah, you know, I think winning is very difficult, as we talked about earlier. but, you know, doing it year after year is tremendously hard. And it's staying sharp, staying hungry. And the one thing about junior is there are going to be turnovers. You're not going to have the same team year after year.

And, you know, I think that that was always the biggest challenge is keeping everyone hungry, keeping everybody sharp. But I think we just, you know, wanted to once again, just have a real professional approach of how we did it, how we conducted ourselves each day. And, you know, how does that start? Well, it starts in your recruiting. And I think that was, we always tried to recruit. a certain type of person more so than, you know, a player.

I think we had a type of player that we liked, guys that we wanted to be part of our program, but, you know, the number one thing was always the character and the type of person they were. And I think that's really what built it from the ground up. And, you know, there's been numerous examples where as a coach or GM, either with Steve or myself, that we may be passed on a guy that had more points, but, you know, we took a guy that maybe had less points, but just was a different player, different type of character, played well when it mattered the most, you know, didn't shy away in the playoffs, you know,

put up numbers when the games were hard. And, you know, I think we really dove into that. And I think, you know, trans, looking back and transitioning that is, is when times get tough and you're going to run into hard times, you're going to fall back on your character. And I think that's what, you know, we were able to do. And we always did is we put an emphasis. emphasis on how important that was. So the dressing room was always strong because when tough times hit, they were able to stick together and they didn't pull apart. And I think, you know, the staff really emphasized being a good teammate and sharing the puck and, you know, not being afraid to play with good players. Like we talked about practicing with good players and just creating that championship culture and, you know, no, no jealousy, just, you know, support. And some nights it's going to be one guy and the next night it might be somebody different. But, you know, the guy that scores the game winning goal is, is just as important as the guy that that blocked the shot in overtime on a PK. You know, there's, there's so many different things that go into winning.

And when you talk about players, I've heard so many times, I just want to win coach. Well, there's more to it than that. You know, there's so much detail that goes into being able to win as an individual and win as a group.

And I think the emphasis was put in the right areas there. And I've always maintained that and continue to try to do that anywhere where I coach. And, you know, I get it. Everybody likes to score goals. I want to see kids score too, but there's just so much more to the game now than just that. And I think it's always been that way. And I really try to emphasize that side of it to try to bring groups together and truly care about each other,

genuinely care about the person next to you. And, you know, I think that's always going to take you a long ways. And then secondly, you've got to have the talent too. You know, I think you've got to have the horses and we were able to kind of combine, you know, having good people and good players. And I think Brooks does a great job of that. They've been very consistent as well. So there's teams now that have had some good runs.

And I truly come back to that. You've got to have the talent, but you've got to have the right people as well. And I hear culture, structure, right? Because, I mean, as good as having 10 really good players come in, if you don't have the right culture there with the structure built in, and that takes time and that takes effort, and that takes making sure that every year that you continue to grow upon what you've done so kids coming in know exactly what to expect, that builds itself as well year by year.

Yeah, when they walk in the door, they know what they're signing up for. And I don't try to hide that what I'm recruiting them either is it's going to be done a certain way. And our room has always been a strength of ours. I've been fortunate to have some tremendous captains and leadership groups. And, you know, it would be awkward. I'm not in there every minute of the day, but I would assume that it would be awkward for someone to step outside or in there or step outside the circle of what we're trying to do because you'd get rained in pretty quickly. And I think, you know, I've played on teams where that's not the case. And that's where, you know, everyone kind of gets on their own page and there's no structure or consequences or no accountability to each other.

And I think that's what made those teams great, you know, when I was there is that there was a ton of internal accounting. ability and you know it started with me but uh you know they looked after each other in there and i think that was uh you know a big part of the character and having you know strong leaders that they could do that and and they respected each other and if someone wasn't doing what we're expecting then you know there was some guilt there they knew it and it was never a you know a pissing match if you want to say it they knew it they understood it and they were better for it so um you know I've got a lot of time for for the players obviously that came through there and uh you know to still having success, which is great.

And it was definitely a strength of all those teams and the championship teams for sure. That's something special for a coach to be able to do for a group, is to give them the belief in themselves to police themselves almost, right? Like that does not happen on every team, not at all. For sure. And that takes time, too. I think that's not going to happen in the first year. that's something that's created over time.

And it takes some time to get to that point. And, you know, I went through it, you know, three times now with you're walking into a situation that might not be the best and, you know, been able to leave it in a better spot than I found it. So I think that just, you know, takes time. And it's not going to happen overnight. But that's where early, it's real important that the coach is, there's no gray area. This is how we do it. This is how we want it. And if not, then it's not going to be a good fit.

And, you know, once you get to a certain point and all of them recognize that and over a course of a year or two, you start to feel that in the group. And you can almost feel the switch. You feel the confidence start to come. You start to see some swagger, how they treat each other, how they talk to each other. And, you know, I think that's the key thing is the coach is real, real important in the early years. And if you're in one place for long enough and you do a good job early, then the players, you know, start to take over a little bit more, especially in the second half of the year, it becomes their room. and I've got to trust them too. And, you know, the leadership group can come to me anytime for help.

And I always tend to have a pretty good pulse on things. But, you know, when you got good leaders and you're hearing it from the people beside you and you trust each other and you believe in each other, you know, it doesn't always have to come for me, that's for sure. How fun was it to be in the same place for a decade? Yeah, you know what? It was great. I have nothing but, you know, fond memories of Spruce Grove.

and it really kind of gave me my start. And, you know, the owners at the time, Darren and Cheryl Myshack were like a second family to me. It was, you know, fantastic. Their support, always very supportive of me and, you know, the decisions that I had to make. And, you know, they just kind of let me, you know, do what I needed to do and kind of stayed out of the way. And, you know, I've always kind of appreciated them for that. They were tremendous fans, tremendous support for the team. emotionally invested in us and, you know, we're being able to have success, but just the amount of

good people that came through in regards to players, you go back and look through, you know, I think in my time there, I had over a, you know, over 100 kids go to Div 1 schools and, you know, 21 or 22 have played in the National Hockey League or signed National Hockey League contracts. So, you know, you put that over six years, you know, those numbers, when you really look at it, that's, you know, I'm really proud of that. But I'm really proud of, you know, seeing guys that are, you know, doctors now or firemen or lots of different, you know, aspects. You see them doing different things.

And so for me, when you look at all of that hockey and the life skills that they learned, that's when I know that, you know, I was able to make a difference, you know, winning championships and winning games was a lot of fun. But we're always going to remember that. But for me, as a coach, there's a lot of other things that I'm going to be just as equally as proud of. So that time in Spruce was a special time. Like I said, I worked with some special people on staff.

Mike Ringrose was with me right to the end. And, you know, he took over. After I left, he's in Grad Mac now. He's a tremendous coach. You know, had Larry Draper there, Steve Hamilton, Dustin Schwartz, Ryan Marshick. The whole group that I was able to work with there was just, that's what made Spruce Grove special. It was, you know, we weren't a big market team, but we were able to, you know, always find a way to be there in the end. You bring up a cool point, too.

It was something I was coached by Larry Wintoniak. I don't know if that name would ring a bell. He was in SJHL during the, I don't think you ever coached in the AJ. Memory serves me correct. But he got a hold of me personally at a very influential time in my life, which is that 18 through 20-year-old span. And I mean, for some kids, it's younger than that if they're coming into the junior ranks a little earlier like yourself.

but as a coach to recognize that, you know, winning and losing, don't get me wrong, it's a business. You want to win. But at the same time, you're shaping, shaping kids' lives and some of the lessons you're talking about and building a group to be accountable to each other, those are lessons that go far beyond the rink. 100%. I think it's very rarely even, you know, once you get into, you know, business or whatever it is that you're a one-man show or working by yourself. you're going to have responsibilities of a group usually. And that's, you've got to be able to work together and you've got to be able to work through things.

You know, it's not always going to be easy. And I think it's, you know, when hard times come, you want to make sure that these guys have the tools to be able to deal with it. And sport itself, you know, definitely provides so many lessons. But, you know, as a coach, you're right. You have them at a very influential age in regards to their development as players, but definitely as people. and you'd be surprised at how many kids try to come down for breakfast nowadays without having a shower. You weren't one of those guys, were you? So I'm on them, you know, you got to come down, shower, be ready for the day, set yourself up.

So it's just the little things. I'm sure my old players will get a laugh out of that. You've got to have a shower before breakfast? You bet. You've got to be clean and ready for the day and buy to wake and ready to go because it's the start of the day. So we make sure that, you know, that's just like a set. it goes back to a culture thing and how we wanted to do it and, you know, just being prepared for the day and it's, you know, they learn to each coach has certain things. That's the thing for me

where, you know, I want them awake when they're down there and ready to go for their day because we usually read right from there and go to the rink and, you know, something's going to be happening. So, you know, it's just one of those little things, you know, it's a little thing that goes a long ways in my opinion. But it's just making sure you're prepared for the day and, you know, getting out, brushing your teeth, making your bed, you know, just, it's easy to walk away from your bed and not do it, you know, and it takes, it takes some, um, some effort and some commitment to make your bed and it just kind of gets you in the, you know, set up for the day and making sure that you're doing the right things.

Well, making your bed, I've heard, taking a shower is a new one. It makes sense to me, but making the, making the bed is the one I've always heard. Taking a shower is by far a new one, although once again, just setting yourself up the right way. those early morning wins translate into a mindset for the rest of the day. So it makes complete sense to me. For sure. That's something I've always done. I don't know.

You're right. You just sets them up for the day. They're awake. They're ready. They're confident. And, you know, showered, brushed teeth. The way we go here. How big was it for you to have a guy like Steve Hamilton for the first four years to kind of learn

the ropes from? because I mean like you get I think it's four years under them and then your first year as a head coach you've already won the league and you're trying to repeat and I mean for most coaches that just doesn't happen right like I mean you're not given um you know you've been a part of it and got to learn and kind of be one of the guys but not the guy and to have a little bit of that pressure off I'm assuming really helped in the beginning yeah I think there's was, you know, I learned a lot from Steve and just, you know, people skills, how you treat people. And, you know, he was, he was very, very good motivator. And he still is. He was able to get the most out of his guys in regards to, you know, take X's and O's society. He always had a, the teams were always emotionally charged. And, you know, even just listening to him as a coach, I was, you know, I was excited to get going. So he, he has a gift in regards to, to motivating people. And I think he's, he's very good at that. And, you know, he was a teacher as well. So he takes the time to teach too. I think that's a skill that translates into coaching very well.

So those are things that I definitely, you know, learn from them and how to deal with things. And you talk about accountability and culture. You know, he was put to some real tough decisions at certain times in the year. And, you know, there's the easy decision and there's the right decision. And, you know, he really taught me the value of making the right decision and not the easy one. And I think that was, especially as a coach and as a GM, And I think that, you know, I always remember those things. And, you know, our friendship aside, you know, we had a real good working relationship

of what I could bring to the group and what he brought to the group, like I said. So very influential, you know, mentor for me for sure, especially, you know, early. And even now, we talk a lot, you know, about different things going on with their teams and, you know, different nuances of the game and get his thoughts on it and what he's trying and different things like that. So to have someone you truly try. trust like that and have a friendship like that to call up at any point is is is a blessing for me. I feel very thankful for that. And, you know, definitely was a guy that I looked up to.

And the pressure of that year coming into being the guy after we won, we had a very deep, talented team the first year. And, you know, might have been arguably the most talented team that I'd been a part of as a coach. And that next year, we had a big turnover. And I don't think people realize how much turnover we had, but we still had a core of six or seven guys coming back that might not have been high-profile guys, but just going back to character and work ethic

and doing things right, you know, they were able to probably, you know, put us into an area where, you know, we weren't sure where we were going to be. And the next thing you know, we were, you know, winning another championship. And I put a lot of stock into that, you know, that core group coming back and really carrying us.

and, you know, kind of, you know, there's things that stayed the same and there were things that changed for sure. But we found a way, we worked together and the partnership was strong. And, you know, they believed in me. And I think that, you know, being there with those guys for, you know, years before they trusted me. And I think that was a big part coming in. I wasn't an unknown. The trust was already there. And I think that that trust allowed us to start well early and then, you know, continue on. I think to be honest, I think that year we lost our first two games after the championship and we'd only lost, I think, five or six the year before. And then, you know, after that, I think we won, you know, a whole

bunch in a row and we ended up 49 and six or something. But everyone forgets we lost the first two. Was coffee row after the first two all over you? Yeah, yeah. No, it was, you know what, it wasn't too bad because it, I think people in the, in the community recognized that there was going to be turnover. And, you know, we found our way. and it wasn't like we played poorly. We just, you know, hadn't won, but strength stayed there. And it seems crazy to talk about after two games, but especially with young guys, they can lose confidence pretty quickly, right?

So we were able to kind of turn it around and we got a big win in our third game and then kind of things started to fall in place. But, you know, there was definitely pressure to try and make sure that, you know, when you want to do, you want to make sure you live up to the expectation of spruce and continuing on to build on it and try to make it better. and that was always my goal is to try and continue to make it an even better place to play. So 2012, you guys don't make the finals. Now, Spruce has kind of set this as like, if you don't make the finals, it wasn't a great year.

And that's kind of the way I'm looking at it because I'm laughing about how many years you guys make the finals. 2013, 14, 15, 16, you make the finals every year. In 2013, you lose to Brooks. 2014 you win, 2015 you win against Brooks, 2016 you lose to Brooks. What I want to know is how tough, and you've kind of alluded to it, how tough was it to make it to the finals every year?

I know you set that expectation, guys, we're going to the finals. But how tough was it to actually make the finals and win year after year after year after year when you're, you know, anytime you do that, you're kicking guys out, right? Guys are moving on to the next level. Yeah, it was very different. I think that's the thing. To win once is hard, but to do it over an extended period of time is really difficult.

And once again, that's just recruiting and buy-in and just, you know, the things you do behind the scenes, the day-to-day stuff is what's going to get you to that point. And, you know, it's funny that, you know, in my six years being the head coach there, we made it to the finals five of the six. And that one year, we were up with, I think, 30 seconds left. We went to game seven. It was against Fort McMurray. And we were down. We went into their bar and won game six, came back for game seven. And we were up to one, I think, and they scored with 30 seconds left to tie it.

And then they actually won it in overtime. So it was, you know, a dark few days after that, and especially for me and our staff and the players. And you're so close to get it. getting there 30 some seconds and then not being able to get there was extremely difficult. And it really took a lot out of us. There's no question. That one stung for me as a coach as much as any.

And then the next year, it's funny, you know, we had about half our team return. And it was the same scenario. The next year, we were down actually three one to them. And we came back and forced to game seven in our building. And we actually won in overtime. So it was the year before, it was, you know, as gut-wrenching as well as it was, it was just as equally as thrilling as to be on the other side of it the next year. So, you know, back-to-back years, game sevens against the, you know, the same team,

they won the first year, we run the second year. But it was, you know, I was real happy for the guys that went through it the year before having to deal with that and how painful it was to see in the, you know, what their faces look like after that, that win. And, you know, coming back from down 3-1, it was spectacular. So one of the highlights for sure in my coaching career, I'll never forget it. But it is. There is a toll.

And I'm sure we've all, a lot of people have watched the Michael Jordan documentary. And, you know, the one quote he said is that, you know, winning has a toll. It has a price. And I wouldn't disagree with that. You know, it's just, you know, guys, you know, have to really step out of their shadow. And sometimes the leaders have to say things that might not always be the rosiest, but has to be says and you push people to places maybe they've never been. And I think once you get there and you taste it, it's like an addiction.

You know, you want it again. And if you've never really been there, you never really know. But once you get there and how hard it is, it's tough to let go and you want to get back there. So I think that was always our motivating factor. And we had a saying when I was there is that the playoffs had to run through spruce crow. You know, we wanted to finish first every year. We wanted home ice advantage and they had to beat us to get there.

That's how we approached it. And we put the pressure on ourselves. We knew we had a target on our back every night we played. We knew we were going to get the best of everybody. So there were no off nights for those teams. And I think that's what helped us in the playoffs, is that we always saw everybody's best. When they came to playoffs or we went to their rank,

we knew they were getting their best. And I think that really set us up for, you know, playoff success because there were no easy nights. And, you know, they took that mentality. How about going to the WHO? You finally, after a 10-year stint in the AJ, decide or get the call maybe, finally. I don't know. Maybe you can tell us, was there other calls or was that the first call?

I mean, you over coaching there, the head coach GM, I mean, you get to go to the Western Canada Cup a couple times after winning. you get to coach the Western, what is it, the U-19? Yes, thank you, thank you. Yeah, right? You get selected as an assistant as a head coach. So you are all over the map as far as being on the radar, I assume, of a lot of teams. You were the CGH coach of the year at one point. What was it about Vancouver that jumped out?

Or were they the first team that came knocking? you know what there was there was different opportunities throughout those those 10 years but it had to be the right fit i think i had a young family you still do and it had to be the right fit for for me at the time and um you know like i said i i was treated extremely well in spruce so i was in you know not you know ever looking to really you know get out unless something at a higher level or um you know came along whether that was college or you know going a different road with the the western hockey league uh you know there was there was different things and but it had to be the right fit. And I think at the time, when I made the decision, it was a new challenge for me. I'd been in Spruce a long time, and sometimes you just need a change. And for me, I think that was the biggest thing.

And the opportunity came probably, you know, at the same time that I needed a change. And Darren and Cheryl had kind of, you know, let me know that they were probably gonna, you know, sell the team. And when I was done, they were kind of gonna be done. And that was kind of how, you know, tight our friendship was, is that they were very honest with me. And it was just one of those things where it was just probably time for me and maybe for them as well. And, you know, like I said, I just, my personal life and, and, you know, the coaching side, it was sometimes change is good.

And it wasn't that things were bad there. It's just, you know, like a new challenge, new place to live, just a whole new kind of start. And I knew that, you know, coming out here, there'd be. a lot of challenges and you know the team hadn't done well the three or four years before but i'd also had the experience of going through it two times before and kind of you know it was never a perfect game plan but had a good idea of what i was going to need to do to try and get it turned around and you know was like i said the reason for the change is just probably just more circumstance and uh on my side and and and kind of what was going on and um you know it was awfully proud of what we're

able to do here in two years. We weren't good the first year and I kind of, you know, expected that. And then the second year, we really turned the corner. And, like I said, the culture, the time you put in early as a coach is, you know, eventually going to pay off. And we started to see that in that second year. We were playing well. And I felt for those guys, they were unfortunate. We took Victoria to game seven, who was a very good team. And throughout the series, I kind of thought that, you know, maybe we didn't get the fate we deserved at times, but that's hockey and there was no shame in our guys, their work ethic and how they

approached and how good they were to each other as teammates. And you could tell that that team had really turned the corner and, you know, it was led by, you know, guys like Darien Skeel and Tyler Benson and Ty Ronning. And, you know, those guys hadn't tasted the playoffs in their career and they're heck of, you know, players. And to be a part of seeing them get to that level and how far our team came in two years was fantastic. It was very rewarding.

and, you know, I think they were, they were well prepared to continue on success, and, you know, they were able to do that. So it was, you know, the times here were great, and I met a lot of good people and was able to work with a lot of good players and learned a lot in the league, learned a lot from other coaches, you know, not only on our staff, but, you know, throughout the league. And I think everybody's, you know, very competitive, obviously, but there's some veteran guys around that that I've known over the years of coach that, you know, we're very open to talking to me about things and knowing that I was a first year guy in that league. So I was able to gain a lot of friendships and learn a lot. And, you know, it was fun to see that team transition from, you know, not being very strong to really turning the corner. Did you have a little bit of nerve your first game behind the bench in the big league? Yeah, no, it was a little bit nerve-wracking.

Yeah, it was, you know, it just like I said, everything is different. and everything was new. So definitely, I think anytime you switch or go to different things, you've got to kind of find your way a little bit. But, you know, I was confident in myself, though, too. Like I felt like I was, you know, ready for it. And, you know, I knew where we were as a group and, you know, what that year was going to be about.

And, you know, we were able to do that. And a ton of injuries, which, you know, kind of has haunted that organization for the last few years and the last couple here. But we're able to get through it. and made me a better coach. It was really my first year, you know, going through a losing season like that as a coach. So, you know, I learned a lot of things, too,

about different things that needed to be adjusted. And everything for me is you're going to have your goods and your bads and you're going to learn and gives you experience. And that's what you get for going through those situations. But, you know, like I said, you're there when you're at the rock bottom to start. And then you work your way back into where you just, you give yourself a chance and you deserve to be in the upper echelon and playing in the playoffs.

It was, it was great to see, especially for the kids, like I said, that we went through two or three years of not having a lot of success to, to be able to be involved with that group, to get them back to that level was, was great.

How tough was it to get relieved of duties in after two years? I know they had a new GM come in, you know, and I'm just reading news articles. I guess I just kind of looked. at it like, man, that's tough luck. You're turning the corner by looks of it, right? You had, what, a 35 point jump season to season? You're in the playoffs for the first time, and I think it was four years. Like, everything looks like it's turning the corner and then new GM comes in

and you're out the door. Yeah, it was really hard, to be honest, that one, that one, you know, stuck, you know, stung deep for sure. And you never, you know, I wasn't expecting it. And, you know, Once the change, you know, the general manager happened, you never know. But like you said, we had a 35 point improvement, which was number one across the league. And, you know, I think our power play was in the top 10 or special teams. You know, everything, the statistics would, you know, state that, you know, you would probably get another chance to come back and keep going. But, you know, everyone, as I've learned, kind of has their guys.

And when there's change, there's usually more change. And unfortunately, I got caught up in that a little bit. But I wouldn't have changed a whole lot, to be honest. You know, I think if you said, we hadn't been there in four years. We got there. We, you know, maybe, like I said, we could have easily been into the second round. But, you know, just the hurdle of getting those players to believe in themselves again was the biggest thing. And the reward for seeing them do that and, you know, get a winning season and kind of get it turned around was fantastic.

So I wouldn't change that part. Like I said, it felt like our staff did, you know, the best we could. that our team was fully engaged and it's just one of those circumstance things that hockey isn't always fair and it's not always pretty and for me that was you know it's been I've been very fortunate and been rewarded with some good times some great memories and that that day was a tough day for sure but you know you got to move on and you know it you think about it for a while obviously and you never let it go but it definitely was unexpected and that being said, there's been a lot of very good coaches let go for different reasons.

But, you know, for me and I think the biggest thing was, you know, continuing to have confidence in what I was doing. And I think the numbers reflected that. And it was, you know, more based on a, you know, a personal decision with, you know, a change at the top. And like I said, I just was probably not, I didn't have the relationship that maybe they were looking for in a different guy. How does that affect you moving forward? do you think, Jay, like, are you going to try and go back up? Do you think at some point if they came a knocking? Yeah, I think it's always, once again, I'm real happy and burning right now.

Same thing, treated tremendously well on the GM coach there. So it's a great place to coach, great place to be involved. The fans are very, very passionate and very, very competitive league, very deep league, a lot of parity. And I think that's, it's made it fun to coach in. There's no easy nights and our division, especially the interior is fantastic and the league itself is fast, it's skilled. So I'm enjoying my time there for sure. Now that being said, I'm no different that anybody else with the right opportunity came along.

And it was a good fit, you know, and there was some stability there. And, you know, I'd probably approach it a little different than the last one. But definitely if something came along that was a good fit would have no problems going back to that. league. Now that you've been in the BC and you've coached in the AJ, what's the main difference you see between the two? You know what? Both are good leagues. I think both are good leagues. Both are turning out good players. The one thing I would say is that like I said, I think there's at this point in time and, you know, that could change is that there's probably a little bit more parity out here right now. You know, in Alberta, like you said, it seemed like there was four or five teams

every year that were real, real contenders. And then, you know, after that, there might have been, you know, a bit of a drop-off. But, you know, out here, I find that it's, you know, a lot of parity. And, you know, don't get me wrong. I think there was, you know, as it came to it, my time as an end and screws towards the end, the parity was definitely coming. You know, from when I first started to where it was at the end, much, much improved. Lots of good people running organizations.

So I thought that gap really improved. but the one thing I noticed right away out here was, you know, a lot of parity and, you know, a lot of good people running it. So I think you're nitpicking at anything. I think both are good leagues. You know, I think the BCHL is definitely built on speed and skill. There's no question. That's like a building block out here.

And there's definitely a lot of high-end talent, that's for sure. Well, I want to move on to the final segment. It's five quick questions for you before I let you go. It's a crewed master final five. So shout out to Heath and Tracy McDonald, who've been huge supporters of the podcast since I started. So the first one is if you were going to pick your – I had written down defense partner, but now knowing your forward, maybe I should just say linemates. Who would you want to be your linemates?

You could take anyone. Well, I'm a big Oilers fan, so I have to go with the two best players that have played there. So Gretzky and McDavid would make sense, right? Yeah, that would be all right, eh? Yeah, yeah. So I'm a big fan of those of the order. So it's been a long few years here. But this was the year.

Hopefully they get back and can get back in. So being an Alberta guy, it was natural. But I grew up watching Gretzky and then obviously McDavid, just a generational talent. So, you know, seeing hockey, it's hockey all the time, watching it. You know, those guys still inspire me to watch games late at night just to see them, you know. And, you know, when you have players like that that you're always tuning in to watch, I think that's what the game means.

And, you know, it would be fantastic to be on the ice for a couple shifts with those guys. What do you think is the NHL's plan to do a 24-team playoffs? You know what? If it's safe and they can get back, I'm for anything. You know, I miss sports in general as much as anybody here. So if they can get back and it's safe for them and their families and it gives people something to watch on TV, then that's great. And I think that's any format for me is works with this going on.

And as long as they're able to make it work, and, you know, that's the key thing. And if it's, you know, 18, 24, whatever it is, just to get them back out, there would be, I think, big boost to, you know, the people in general, the fan, you know, giving people something to watch at this time. I think we're all a little bit tired of watching the same things over and over here. So they're obviously leaders in the sporting world, but the world in general, one's watching to see what they're going to do and I know they'll do a good job of it. You could sit down and pick the mind of one person, sit down and have a beverage with him. Who would be the guy you'd pick or girl? You know what?

I think for me, it's funny. People ask me, you know, who are your favorite coaches when I first started? And it's funny, Todd McClellan was a guy I always wanted to meet. And Dave Tippett was another guy. And those were the, you know, obviously the two guys that came back and coached Emmetton. So I always look to watch their teams. I think their teams are very well structured. And I know that, you know, when Todd especially was in San Jose, they did some different things there, especially on their special teams that, you know, I'm always a big fan of trying to be

creative and do different things. And I always thought his teams did that. And then, you know, obviously with Tippett, he's always very sound defensively. And, you know, if I had the chance to sit down with those two guys, I think that would be in the NHL, two guys that I would, you know, be interested in talking to you for sure and I'd pick any you don't get to coach NHL by chance so you get a chance to talk to any of those guys I think you're pretty lucky to sit down with them but if I was to choose to I think those are two guys I'd be definitely interested in chatting with when you sit and watch NHL or any games for that matter are you constantly breaking down

then what they're doing I do I can't even watch it as a fan anymore it's very difficult for me it's hard I'm always watching you know I'll take stuff and we'll break it down for our guys or show them different clips that the NHLs do. I do a lot of my teaching through NHL clips and then clips from us as well. So even just to sit down on a Thursday night, if I got a half an hour, I'm watching to see different entries, different exits, power play things, special teams, you know, stick positioning, you know, all that stuff because those guys are, they're all habits and they're pros. So anything you could pick up to give yourself a team a better chance, you know, great.

And a lot of it is, you know, I don't think there's any secrets anymore with everything. It's about how hard and how well you do it. And I think that's the key is trying to get your players to do it that way and do it hard and do it well. What's one hobby you've picked up while you've been stuck in COVID lockdown? You know what? It's like I said, I wouldn't say any hobbies, but, you know, I've been busy with the hockey side. But, you know, it's given me a chance a little bit to be around, you know, the kids a little bit more in family time. And, you know, just do some some activities in the backyard, things like that where, you know,

we'd be running around to their activities, which is always fun as a parent. But just to be able to spend extra time with them has been good. But that being said, I'm ready to get back if we can and get them back in activities because I'm a big believer in sports. So I want to see them get back and doing those things. But it definitely has given us a little bit more time to maybe just slow things down and take a breather and kind of recalibrate ourselves and get ourselves ready when things get going back here again.

if tomorrow you can have one NHL team call you and say hey we need a coach which one where do you want to go to that's a that's a tough question but like I said I'm a huge oasis fan always happen so I'm going to I'm to stick with the Alberta team and I think it's a safe answer and uh this I think any team obviously there's so many great team spots uh there's different things uh there's teams where you're going to have lots of limelight. There's teams where it's going to be quieter. So it's just one of those things. I don't think there's, if you get a chance with anybody, you're taking it. But I'll stick with the hometown team and keep going down that.

And good things are going to happen this year when they get back. Yeah, good on you, because I probably would have said Florida. I would have been like, I could probably handle the sun. Yeah. No, there's positives to that too. Final one. Who's the toughest coach you have, you know, you're preparing for, I'm assuming the playoffs and you're like, how we got X, or maybe it's just a single season game. You just know it's going to be a good match because they're tactician or their teams are so well played or, you know, prepared.

What's the one guy that you just, yeah, here we go again. Yeah, I think in the Alberta League, I think it probably we've had so many good rivalries. The two guys I think of are probably Gortibittal and Ryan Papinal, just because we saw each other. much and I knew that we'd have to go through those teams to win. So they were always, always had good teams. They were always well prepared, you know, had good habits, you know, all the things that make teams difficult to play against and they had good depth. So teams were always well prepared and, you know, both those guys have done a tremendous job. So I think in that league, I think that was, you know, two guys that I knew were always going to be, you know, a tough out in the

playoffs. And then in the Western League, you know, so many, you know, great coaches, but, you know, I think any time we went into Portland, you know, coach against Mike Johnson, I always appreciated the way his teams played, lots of, you know, offense skill and their special teams were always so good. And, you know, I always remember, you know, going into that rink, we actually had some success against them, but, you know, seeing their lineup and, you know, the experience that they had on their bench for sure. So he was always a guy that I knew that we were going to have our hands full.

But, you know, any night, I think, in. in any league nowadays. The coaches are so well prepared. You know, they just don't get there by, for no reason. And, you know,

it's very rare that you would see a team not ready to go anymore. So it's, I've got a lot of respect for coaches in all the leagues. And, you know, there's a lot of bright minds, lots of experience. And I'm just,

you know, happy to kind of be, you know, in that group and be part of it. Well, I appreciate you hopping on. I think I can safely say this. It's been a lot of fun.

So I really appreciate you taking some time. I hope the lockdown comes down or stops here soon, and everybody can get back to playing some hockey. And I know everybody's missing it. And everybody's missing everything, right? Like, it would be just nice to get back to some normal things of life. And I really hope we see you back coaching here soon enough. Yeah, well, thanks for having me.

I've really enjoyed it as well. And I appreciate you taking the time. And we'll stay in touch. Sounds good. Thanks, Jason. All right. Thanks, guys. Hey folks, thanks again for joining us today.

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