Shaun Newman Podcast - Replay Judy Reeves

Episode Date: July 10, 2025

Throwback Thursday to episode #110 with Judy Reeves. Judy Reeves is a survivor of the 1991 Perfect Storm, a powerful nor’easter that struck the North Atlantic, famously depicted in Sebastian Junger���s book and the 2000 film The Perfect Storm. As an International Fisheries Observer, Reeves was aboard the Eishin Maru 78, a Japanese fishing vessel caught in the storm’s eye off the coast of Gloucester, Massachusetts, in October 1991. To watch the Full Cornerstone Forum: https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcastGet your voice heard: Text Shaun 587-217-8500Silver Gold Bull Links:Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/Email: [e-mail] Grahame: [phone]Bow Valley Credit UnionWebsite: www.BowValleycu.comEmail: [e-mail] Use the code “SNP” on all ordersProphet River Links:Website: store.prophetriver.com/Email: [e-mail]

This is Viva Fry. I'm Dr. Peter McCulloch. This is Tom Lomago. This is Chuck Pradnik. This is Alex Krenner. Hey, this is Brad Wall. This is J.P. Sears. Hi, this is Frank Paredi.

This is Tammy Peterson. This is Danielle Smith. This is James Lindsay. Hey, this is Brett Kessel, and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks. Happy Thursday. Happy throwback Thursday. Yeah, we're going back in the Way Back Machine,

grabbing a couple episodes from, you know, a little ways back in the old SMP, history. But before we get there, how about we talk a little silver and gold, shall we? The number of balances of silver needed to buy an ounce of gold now at near 30-year highs. Silver is now, silver is now a bargain price when compared to gold. It's a perfect time to protect a portion of your savings with silver, and silver gold bowl has a wide variety of best value silver for every budget. Simply text or email Graham for details, whether you're a seasoned investor or new to precious metals. Graham will work with you to answer your questions and recommend the best products to meet your investing goals. Whether you're on silvergoldbill.com or dotCA, just

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we will make sure to keep you guys up to date. We have the new studio here, hopefully coming sooner than later, as soon as I get back from holidays. We'll be hammering some things out. Really excited to unveil that, to, you know, to be in there, be honest. And we're doing a cleanup in August. I don't know how much I'm checking my phone right now,

but if you're interested in being a part of cutting down some trees and that type of thing, and you're wanting help, you know, you can get your name on the value for value while. Come lend a chainsaw. Just shoot me a text and I'll probably have the date by now figured out of when that is going to be. As you're noticing today is a throwback Thursday. And for the month of July, we're going in the way, way back machine and picking out some episodes that have caught my attention, maybe yours as well. And, well, make sure to stick around

at the end of the episode. I've re-listened to all these, and I jot it down some notes, because, you know, some of these I haven't listened to, well, probably none of us have listened to in a long time. But lots of times I, you know, an episode sticks out to me. Maybe I really listened to it.

Maybe I don't. I made sure to go back and re-listen to this. And so at the end of these episodes, I have a couple extra thoughts. So make sure to stick around. for that. If you're listening or watching on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, Rumble, X, make sure to subscribe, make sure to leave a review, make sure to share with a friend, make sure to hit retweet, make sure to do all the things. You're all wonderful,

and I appreciate you hanging out on a throwback Thursday. Now, let's get on to that tale of the tape. She graduated from Lakehead University with a degree in forestry. She would wind up spending close to a decade on the ocean as a fisheries observer. During this span in 1991, she found herself on the Isha-Maroo, 15-foot Japanese fishing vessel during the perfect storm or the 100-year storm or Halloween Gale. It has many different names. It's been made famous by a book or movie you may remember,

The Perfect Storm featuring Mark Wahlberg and George Clooney, a story about the Andrea Gale that gets lost out at sea. While during the storm, Judy was caught in the eye of it with nowhere to go. This is her story. So buckle up. Here we go. So believe it or not And I know you

Probably at times wonder why anyone would drive Halfway across the country to come find you Well I really Really wondered that I was like Why? Like when I told you I was going to be in Port Alverney I thought you were going to go Okay well you know

Next time And you're like okay When are you going to be there? I was like, have you been to the island? It's not like to use this place to get to. I don't deter easily. Doggedness, right?

Well, I... Good quality. It'll take you far. Doggidness. I hope so. I've been fascinated with your side of the family since a kid. Oh, the Reeves. Well, that sounds... You make fun of it. The crazy thing is, is...

And I was saying this a bit last night, is when we come around the raves, there's just such interesting conversation. And I enjoy interesting conversation. Yeah, a lot of animation. Well, and just world experience. You guys have... It's true. Have been a lot of different places and have interesting stories.

For me, absolutely, I want to talk about the perfect storm or a hundred year storm, whatever you want to call the storm. I don't really... I think it's... Well, I like the nobody's perfect storm because... Nobody's perfect. But I want to, I guess I want to start, I want to go back because, you know, I was talking to mom and dad on the way out and you folks are older than I am. So I'm the young guy looking at you, asking questions. How old are you?

34. Jesus, you're older than my kids. Yeah. But I had my kids late, right? Well, I'm getting the late start. on this. That's why when you say, oh, you're a journalist, I'm just a curious soul. Do you know, I said that I wasn't a musician for 25 years. So I've been singing since I was two, but I started singing professionally in the 80s. Okay. And I used to say that too. Oh, no, I'm just a singer I

used to say. I'm just a singer. Just a singer in the band. Oh, what do you play? You know, blah, or I don't play anything. And then about 20 years later, I don't know what happened, but I decided that I was a musician. Why am I not a musician? My vocal instrument is my voice. So I just decided. When people ask me, you know, was I a musician?

I said, oh, yeah. And what is your instrument? What do you play? I said, I sing. And it made such a different. It was like a little shift here. Other people see you whatever. It's how you see yourself.

That's important. Do you know that, right? It's how you see yourself. So if you see, I see a journalist, what do you see? That's up to you. Well, and I go back to a curious soul. I just, I like hearing people's stories. Right.

And so. But what is journalism, I feel? it isn't that. If it isn't the pursuit of the story, that is the essence of journalism. So, like, think about it. Who are you? And if you want a career in this, that's my free suggestion. There it is. It's free. It's you who need to think about who you are. Because the universe will listen. they'll hear you and go, oh yeah, journalist. Bingo. Well, see, and you wonder why I wanted to come sit here and have a coffee this morning. Maybe I was just looking for some life advice.

You know, aren't we all? Like, have you figured it out yet? No. Yeah, no, exactly. No, I... Yeah, exactly. So we're all like on the same path, maybe in different wherever's, but like we're all going, That way, right?

You know, if I, if somebody asked, you know, like, what's podcast about, right? Like, what are you doing? I have a simple explanation I've been giving, but now that I start to look back over 100 episodes, I just listen to people. I enjoy finding what makes them tick and trying to extract some of their knowledge and lessons they've learned. Because I don't know if there's a single soul on the planet who's been everywhere, seen everything, learned every lesson, I think that's damn near impossible. See, you're looking.

That's what I see. You're looking. You're interested in our stories, but it's for you that you're looking. You're looking for your place, your meaning in life. That's why you do this. That's why I sang. Oh, yeah. People, you know, I'm singing for the audience.

Are you kidding? it was all about me right it was all about me but you know we have these conceits that it's about you know this and that it's not it's our pursuit of our

meaning in life that's what you're looking for so did you find your meaning in life then I don't know if there's only one meaning but I think that you live in stages you know

you live in phases and that every phase of your life brings you some kind of meaning right because you know when I was in university that was a phase right and I was searching for something I was quite young then I graduated when I was 22 and you know that I was in the bush and you know all of those things, like when I was younger, I didn't know that I was searching for that. But that's what I was searching for. That's what we're all searching for. We're all looking for meaning to give our life meaning, to give ourselves solidity. You know, I look at pictures of myself when I was younger and I look like nothing. I look really unfocused. You can see that in a picture? Yeah, I can. I'm not to find it all. There's no definition at all. I'm just kind of there. I'm just experiencing.

It was until later I started to come into focus. It was really bizarre, you know, because I realized that one day, oh my God. You know, because I'm like you. I'm endlessly curious, endlessly curious about life and about people and about how things work. I love to know how things work, especially science. I'm a science geek. Love. Bazaar. Science is good. And I love building science because I'm learning all the time, right? But in terms of the meaning of life, I would say you're never done. It's just layers. You know, you've ever seen Shrek? You know, the onion? The onion? Yeah. Everybody like Pauphé? Right? It's just, you know, you have layers of meaning and they change. So I just became almost, you know, not quite, but pretty soon I'll be in. an empty nester. So my children are leaving me. Is that a tough thing? Yeah. It really is. And you think that I would know better, knowing that it was coming,

it's bullshit. It's like, oh, you know, this is not this. Oh, you can learn all sorts of shit up here, and you can be really bright and know a lot of stuff, but it doesn't inform you like this does. It's... Like the heart. Yes. It's your heart. That's the information. So yeah, I'm all, yeah, oh, yeah, this is all happening. Here I'm going, ooh, this is strange. What am I going to do now?

That's my next thought. It was like, what am I going to do now? How am I going to reinvent myself now? Because that's how I feel. I feel like I'm on the cusp of reinvention. I don't know what's going to happen where I'm going from here. But, yeah. something is happening

so there's so my meaning in life was to raise my children to keep my family together to create a universe that I wanted them to live in to believe in the universe so you can't sometimes you can't create something

unless you believe in it hence back to the journalist believe it create it you can't create it unless you believe it So, you know, I created a life for us in a place that didn't suit me. You know, as a person, as a rural person who really is at home on the ocean or the bush with nobody. I mean, solitude was always my thing.

Always, I'm a loner. All of us are loners, by the way, the Reeves is. Yeah, big time loaners. But so now that that's kind of, that's kind of, I'm transitioning, it's really a little bit scary. Like, what can I say? And I'm old. So that, or older, so that I don't have that, you know, that sexual currency anymore. That's gone.

People don't even see me anymore. If I tell people that I'm retired, their eyes just glaze over. Really? Yeah, there's a weird thing. You're, all of a sudden, you've lost your value. Like you're not valuable in the world somehow. It's really quite, it's been quite interesting. Even the age thing, a lot of people my age are old.

How old are you, Judy? 64. 64. Same age is my parents. Right? Well, yes. I'm not quite 64. I'll be 64 at the end of this week.

But your dad and I were born two weeks apart. in the same year. So that is really, like I've always been the kind of, I've always been really alive, really vibrant, usually bigger than life. People remember me, you know, and now I'm almost invisible, not yet, but almost. So it's a weird thing about age, gender and value. The world is so interesting, Shane, and you never know, Sean, you never know what's going to happen until you're there, you know, and so, you know, I've heard all these stories, but now I'm there and I'm going, oh my God. When I meet people, they always say, ah, you're not that old, my God,

you're so alive, blah, blah, blah, you know, go on and on. And so maybe I'm, but I think about other people. So maybe I'm atypical, but I think about other people and how they experience life and how it's like for them, how it's like for women who are no longer bearing children, the children are gone. They're, you know, like who are they anymore? Like I'm not a volunteer. I'm not going to go and volunteer and that's going to, you know, fill the void in my heart. No. You're not going to go bust a song down at the local state? Oh, that might. That might happen. But that's not going to be the soul.

That's not going to be the sole thing that's going to get the juices. Like, that's the thing, you know, if you're juicy all your life and all of a sudden you get to the place where you see that the juice is running out in people. That's really when you get old.

It's when the juice runs out. That's what I think. I don't know. What do you think? I think. For a lot of people, the juice runs out very early then. Because, you know, I watch yourself, I'm vibrant at 64, 63 and two weeks away from 64. For a lot of people, the juices run out, and at 35, they kind of just kind of mosey through life. I know.

A lot of times they give up. I've never, yeah, I've never quite understood it. No, me neither. I don't know. You know, you mentioned... Do you think that's about how you were raised? Like, is that part of who you are, of course, is because of who your parents are?

Well, I would think part of it has to be that. Yeah. Part of it has to be some of the life choices you make when you're young and you don't realize the consequences of them. That's right. That's so true. It's luck. Come on.

I hate that, though. I hate that. But it is luck. So many successful people that read their books talk about luck all the time. It's just frigging luck. Why do you think I'm not? You still have to put yourself in the position to grab that luck. Yes.

Yes. And you still have to risk. Risk is a huge part of success. I'm sure Jimmy Patterson will tell you that. And if he doesn't, it's because he doesn't think of it. It's risk. Huge amounts of. of risk. You're putting your, so not only money. You're not just risking money. A lot of people think

that risk is only about money. It's not. It's about risking your reputation. It's about risking the possibility of something different. If you do this, then you might not be able to do this. So you have risked the opportunity to do something else by choosing to do this. So there's risk inherent in every choice that you make. But some people refuse risk. And those are the people, I think, that have that downward trajectory, you know? Well, I would say they're clouded on that

because every day there's risk. There's risk in doing the same thing over and over and over again. And you know what? That is so true. That is, and that's a big, I think that's a really salient point because it reminds me of a naturopath. I have a naturopath.

And I've had an injury, ever since I had Solomon, it's a ligament injury. Because I have, I'm hypermobile. And when you're hypermobile, you have loose ligaments anyway. So all your ligaments are kind of hypermobile. You can do all sorts of weird ambidextrous things with your limbs. And, you know, you can, like, I can still do it with this hand, you know? Oh, yeah.

You know, the weird things, you know, right? The listeners are going. Yeah. What's that? I can bend my thumb right back to my wrist. Right to my forearm, right? And I'm not even remotely close. No, exactly.

So you see the hypermobility. So in any case, what were you talking about? We're talking about risk. Oh, shit. I forget now. I'll come back to it in a minute. But hypermobility is something that, oh yes, that's right. So when I had Solomon, I lost, your hips widen.

And so when you're pregnant, there's a hormone that's released that actually lets your ligaments get loose so that your hips can open for childbirth. So there's this whole thing because you're really tight. Like how's that baby coming out of that two centimeter hole, right? Well, you've got to have some width in there. So the baby can come through the canal, the childbirth canal and through the pelvic opening. So what happened to me is that that happened and then I herniated a disc in my back while I was pregnant. And so I really injured this, it's called the SI joint, Sacrioliac joint.

Anyway, long story short, 13 years later, somebody suggested that I have proletrapy and they'd had it and it worked really good. And I refused. I thought, oh, that's hot, bullshit. Anyway, I did that. I just got to the point where I had so much pain and suffering. I'm a fitness instructor. Every three months, I'm out of commission.

I can't move. I've got like a knife stab. So anyway, I went and I had this proliferation therapy. and it actually worked. I still can't remember the point of the story, though. You know, just hopping on to that, though, I love that. Looking back, you know, you've got different stages, different times. At different times in your life, you've looked at something,

I went, man, that is complete and utter bullshit. Yes. And then been proven wrong about that. Well, and then allowed myself to say, well, listen, what's the worst thing that can happen? What's the worst thing that can happen? Right? It doesn't work. Oh, that's right.

Okay, here's the point. So I went to see Jonathan, who is this naturopath. He used to be a doctor. And he gave me a sheet of paper to fill out to sign, you know, the standard liability. That's right. You know, big old honking needle going into your back. Anything could go wrong here. You could be crippled.

Never walk again. You know. infection, but what it did say, that I'll never forget, except for I just did, you know, but whatever, is that what are the risks if you don't to do this? Here is what you'll have, continued pain, continued worsening of the situation, continued depression, blah, blah, blah. And I remember thinking, wow, that was the first time I'd ever actually read some. something like that instead of yeah this might happen you could have infection you could

this is what's going to happen if you don't do this we don't hear that enough well actually that could probably be you know you could take that same document take that same line about what's the what's the worst what's the worst that happens if you don't do this and put it to a lot of things in life a lot of things in life yeah you could but we don't we often so that there's two things that motivate us. Fear and love. I personally believe that's it. Other people will have sex thrown in there and or, but I believe there's just fear and love. So choose. What do you want? Choose. Standing in the light or standing in the darkness. I prefer to stand in the light. I know that when I'm in the light, I'm in the pocket. Everyone knows when they're in the pocket.

As a musician, this was something that you really wanted and you hoped for, but it sometimes didn't happen. You do a gig and you were professional and you did a really good job, but you weren't in the pocket. But if you're in the pocket, you know, Elaine would say you're standing in the light of God. You're channeled in the, in God's hands. right that's so the pocket is the light you know when you're and you you know when you're in the pocket like right now right just feel it just everything you're and you wonder why i travel halfway across the country well i don't know why you travel people have different ideas about what they're

finding like i don't know what you're looking for huh you do somewhere in there you do you do What are you looking for? Right? This is what you're looking for, obviously. But we're all looking for that, right? And some of us are better listeners than others. I don't meet very many people who can inform me about my path. So I have to rely on myself.

Who was the last person that you met that could inform me on your path? The last person? Or maybe the most influential. That's funny, you know, because I've been thinking about this same question. Somebody in my Facebook page asked that just recently, right? Who is the most important person? Who is the person who changed your life? That kind of a person?

Yeah. And I don't know if I really have an answer. It's been a tough question then. Real tough question. There have been people who have, made a difference and are making a difference as we speak. But often, you know, I mean, I could choose the easy answer, which is my husband. Because he makes a difference every day.

Every day. But they're not, like, those are cumulative differences, right? You know, they kind of build up. That's a merit, right? It kind of builds up and builds up until it's really big. But it's not like, it doesn't punch through. It's not like a crack in the universe. And the sun came down and the, you know, the rays and you were still, oh, you know, that kind of a moment, right?

It's not that kind of a moment. My first boyfriend out of high school made a huge, huge impact on my life, changed the trajectory of my life. So if I were to think of, he's the only one. that I can really, really immediately go, oh, that was Tom. He was an older kid. He gave me, he loved me so, and I didn't love myself. So it was the first time that I was able to feel that I was lovable. Right?

and that, you know, that changed my life. Because that sets you up for self-love, which is the only love that you need. In fact, yesterday I was on the site and I wasn't feeling good. And in fact, I was really not feeling good. And I was sitting and watching the guys do this huge, you know, forklift and I was bringing up the walls and it was moving the walls and taking them. And like it was like a big operation and it was kind of scary. I'd never seen it before. I'd never done it before. I didn't know Andre was even capable of all this. And I was useless because I had really, I don't know what

happened, but I was in the pit and I got overheated. And I just, I felt really, really, really awful and and I just thought you know if only they knew how ill I am right and I felt sorry for myself I thought oh geez you know here I am they're doing all this stuff they have no idea that I just actually you know threw up I was really that ill I drank some cold water and it just I'm on some pills that are upsetting my stomach and then I thought Well, what do I need them for? I can love myself. So they don't love me in this moment.

They're not even thinking of me in this moment. They're so focused. But I can love me. I can, I'm not unlovable. So it's that moment by moment thing that you can rescue yourself. You can save yourself from these little, like I was feeling sore for myself, you know, because nobody was noticing me. and I wasn't feeling well.

That inner voice at times can be a real bastard. Oh yeah, it can be. You have to, I always say the Newman side of the family. We don't do well when we don't talk to people. I just use myself as a, if I go, I don't know, 72 hours. I'm a complete opposite. You like being along. I don't like being alone.

I get a, I will come out of this and I will want to fly. I love talking to people. I love it. It's one of the surprising things. Whereas Dustin, in fairness, Dustin, when we did the bike, we did around, had Lori on, and the three of us talked about biking candidates. We talked about that.

It was fun to relive it. And we came out of there, I was just chatty Kathy. I was excited. That was a lot of fun. And Dustin was tired. He came out, and he just like, I just can't talk to people for that long. It drains me.

But on overall, the Newman side, if we go along periods of time without talking to people, that voice inside your head, you talk to it too long, and don't keep it in check. It can lead you down some dark paths. The rabbit hole. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, get out of your head. That's why I do yoga.

That's why I use breathing techniques. Get out of there. Get out of there. Yoga, I wish, you know, and as I say this, I go. you make time for the things you deem important. Yoga is the first and only time I've ever experienced. I don't know. We grew up going to church.

So I always grew, I always was looking for that moment when God talks to you, right? And, oh, that's right. The sun comes down and you sit there and you have this supernatural conversation. I know, it's like, Mr. Bean. What was that? Yeah. Went to yoga for the first time.

I had no idea what I was walking into. Mel was in prenatal yoga. with Shea, our first. And so she's like, going to come to yoga. There's some beginner classes. Yeah, sure. I mean, I always go. What's the worst is going to happen?

Yeah, that's right. Miles would go try it. And the first time when they just kind of talk and they got all these things going on and it's just soothing, I was like, what is this? This is something else. Like, this is something else. You know, I taught yoga. I'm actually a yoga teacher. And when I first started.

taking yoga. It was about 20 years ago. I used to tell people, oh, no, I don't do yoga. I'm too hyperactive. Like, I'm an aerobic girl, right? Or cardio. Well, that's exactly why I should do yoga. Because I'm like the cardio girl, right? It's like, well, no, no. No, no. And what I learned was the same thing maybe that you experience is that, oh my God, this, I'm missing this. This is like good. This is really good. Like, I don't need. to the high anxiety is probably going to kill me I have a heart attack who knows high blood pressure the whole nine yards it's it's the the ability to get out of your head that's why I like yoga because in yoga there's so many things like you're it's all about your body but it's about equality

really it's about equality and so when you're trying to equalize your body and create and create that equality in your body, you know, you think your brain isn't part of your body? You think your heart isn't part of your body. You're all one organism. So all of that, it just flows through you all of that. Breathing, learning how to breathe properly has been really good for me when I got cancer and I was freaking out. you know, you freak out when you get cancer.

Right. Honestly, you can't even say the C word. Well, that was a whole other experience. Jeez. Cancer is like, that's a kick in the pants. But it's a, you know, I have to say it was a good kick in the pants. Oh, so? It, like anything, you don't know what a situation is like until you're in it.

Right? So you don't know what like babies are. like until you have them. You don't like, you don't know when they leave what it's going to be like until it happens to you. Like you really don't know. You can see and understand and you think you know, but you don't know. It's like the theory, let's get a dog so we can know what kind of having a kid is like

when it's not even remotely the same thing. Not even remotely. When you get a dog, you think it. You actually think it. You're like, yeah, we got a dog. We got some responsibility. We kind of know what's coming at us. Not a chance.

That first week is an eye-opener. That first night is an eye-opener. Right. So cancer was like that. I got cancer, and I had to navigate the cancer world from my point of view, from who I was. And what I found was that it's a very, it's a very sobering, fearful place. love and fear. It's all about fear. It's just fear. And everybody's afraid. Everybody,

everybody, you go into the breast health center, the oncology center. It's all about fear, right? It's honestly, it's just palpable. You could cut it with a knife. So here I am, you know, going, well, this doesn't feel good. Like this, all this fear is just so awful. It's horrible. And it's, it's like all sorts of bad things happen when you're afraid. Like bad things happen to your body. So fear affects your body and your body affects your brain. Like everything affects everything if you know what I mean. It's just like you're like an amoeba. You're just like, you know, everything that touches you. So I, had to learn how to protect myself from the fear that was so permissive, right? It was just everywhere.

And I had to choose love. I know that sounds easy, but it isn't. I had to choose it. I had to choose positivity and and it's not about battling the cancer. I hate that. Oh, they battled the cancer after a brave fight. It's like, what the fuck? You've got cancer. Of course, you're going to battle it. You're going to battle it if you have heart disease or diabetes or Alzheimer's or arthritis,

systemic, this and that. Like, there's a lot of crappy shit out there. A lot of bad stuff. I used to work with all those people. So cancer, it's like the king of diseases. It's like, cancer, cancer, oh, you know, like everything revolves around cancer. The money goes to cancer. People are so afraid of it, the deference that it's given to you.

Unbelievable. All I had to do is play my C card, and I got anything I wanted. And I thought, I really thought about that. And I thought, well, this is kind of unfair, isn't it? What about all those other people who have MS or Parkinson's or Lugarig's disease? Do they get that? No, they don't. Cancer has this weird, sexy cachet.

I know that sounds a little bit, you know, but you know what I mean? I know what you mean? Do you know what I mean? And I didn't like it. so I was like the anti-cancer cancer cancer patient you know I'd be like I'd be cracking jokes like oh god we're all here let's like let's you know laugh a little or you know just self-depreciatory kind of humor you know and so I chose actually I chose this one woman who is a who is a plastic surgeon. I never thought I would have plastic surgery. See? Never say never. Well, I'm going to

have plastic surgery. I have a false, this isn't my own breast. They took the breast and they put a rack in and I call it the rack. It's actually an expander and they pump it full of liquid, saline and then they push the skin out. And then later on, when the skin is, then they put, they slip in a little breast implant, right? What has that been like? It's always been really bizarre. Really so bizarre. I could write a book. I really should write a book. No, I could write a book. Anyway, I choose, I choose Erosu Astani simply because she was the most alive person in that clinic. That she, she was bright and she was like, she was like, she was like, She was like a bright penny, you know, and just full of life.

And I chose, I said, oh, that's it. I'll just, I'll do that. Because I needed to be with her. I needed that. Yeah. Right? I needed to, and, and, uh, that's a lot of life who you surround yourself with. Oh, you've got to surround yourself with life, with love.

Or you can choose fear. You can still survive through fear, but, you know, I want to live. I don't just want to survive. Right? Survival and living, these are not the same things, right? These are not the droids you're looking for. My little Star Wars, you know. I have a lot of those, right?

But no, cancer has been interesting because of the way people treat you. Well, they treat you like your kind of a rock star pariah. Like they don't want to touch you because they're afraid they're going to get it. And yet they think, like, you can have anything you want. Yeah, everybody understands cancer. It's a very... They think they understand cancer. Everybody, it's a very cultural word.

Like, everybody understands what cancer is. To a point. Shitty. It's shitty. That's what they equate it to. Yeah. And then chances are you're not coming through it. A lot of, like there's, yeah, there's, you know, poor outcomes.

But is there, do they fully understand? No, most people don't want to fully understand most things unless it happens. I didn't tell people I had cancer. I only told those. You didn't tell people. I've been, I've been really curious about that. I know, uh, I'm assuming you didn't want, uh, you'd mention your father and that you, you want to kind of keep him sick. I wanted to spare him the terrible.

But now I'm curious, if one of your sons or your husband ever had anything like that, wouldn't you want to know? Yeah, I told my family, but I didn't tell outside of my family. I only told a couple people who I knew I was safe with. So safety was paramount for me because I had to fight and I had to survive and I had shit to do. like it's not like the prettiest thing. I had three surgeries already and I got another one coming. And the outcome wasn't known, right? So really, so many unknowns, right?

So I chose safety over sympathy. And not only that, people when they find out you have cancer, they practically start crying. Like they need you to comfort them. Oh my God, you have cancer. cancer? Oh my God. Are you okay? Can I bring you a casserole? You know? Or 10 casseroles? And you're like, it's like, I'm going to be all right. Why are you here at the gym? Because haven't you heard anything I said in 22 years? Yeah, I got to keep fit, baby. Why do you? Yeah.

You know But you got to love some casserole Yeah I got a lot of casseroles But no I didn't I didn't have the energy to To deal with them It's it

The safety over the sympathy That's an interesting So I chose to To conserve my strength for me Because I knew I really needed it I needed my strength And my resolve

And my Yeah That's been a really interesting thing that's gone on in the world now with social media you get that I don't know is there such thing as fake sympathy or fake whatever

the like the whatever it is on absolutely it's just it's just not real it's just it's it's um it's um it's just form good form to say oh so sorry or

blah blah blah it's just good form or just to chase the likes or the the reaction off of social media. I just don't get it. But then, you know, I don't use social media for that. I use social media in a different way, but I guess that is a way to use it. I think it's way people connect.

Listen, human beings like to be, like to connect, like to be around other people, like to have somebody like them or like them back. Yeah, they do. We're social beings. And so as time goes on and people more stare into a phone. or what have you, they connect through people through text or through liking something, through reading their story, their blog, you know, because that's the way we, that's the way language and everything is slowly changing. We're just, we're getting to the point where instead of, you know, people are going to think I'm nuts for driving this far and for hopping

on a ferry and coming all the way. But this really, to me, this is, this is something special. something that, you know, a year ago, I thought, ah, I got five years. And then you got cancer. I don't know if I got five years. You know, like, but that, I don't mean that in a dark way. I mean, me driving over here, hit one drunk driver. I mean, that's all she could put.

It's true. You only have the moment that you have. That's right. That's the only guaranteed moment that you have. Nothing. There's no guarantees. So for me to come and sit, one of the things I love about this journalist gig is, getting to sit across and connect with somebody

over and over and over again and interesting people that I think are interesting. Because it's so much more... Like you can't get that on your Facebook feed. You just can't or your Twitter feed. You can't get the depth. So maybe you get the surface and then you can look deeper, right?

But you can't get the depth. I don't think you can get the depth. We haven't had a media, in my opinion, and maybe one of the reasons and I should have looked up the definition of a journalist. When I hear media, I always think cut, chopped, looking for clickbait, clickbait, keywords. You know, you find something negative, that sells a lot of papers.

Everybody has, right? And so to me, I'm not that, like, I'm completely opposite of that. I like, listen, when this airs to whoever listens to it, they're going to hear everything. They're not going to hear everything. Everything? Yeah, I don't go through. It's raw.

Uncut. Right? It's not going to be bleeped out. You swear, you swear. You talk about this, that, and everything. And I, the first time I ever heard that was, you know, and I know a podcast has been around for a while. But I only heard it like two years ago. I heard my first one.

And I went, what is this. So unedited is what you're saying. Unedited. Yeah. And I think it's wonderful. Well, you know, I was a live musician. I wasn't a recording artist. Right.

Right? And there is a difference. Oh, yes, there is a difference. I have done recordings, and I have done recordings for other people. I used to do a lot of backup vocals when I was younger. But live is so, I mean, you screw up, you forget your lines, you improvise, you transcend. You're real. Everything happens, yeah. And I used to hate recordings.

I don't want to hear myself. because my feeling of how I performed or what happened in that room is more important to me than some recording. I don't even know. Well, and it changes how, like, you go in and sing, I never sang. Oh, and I'm a Virgo, but so I'm highly, highly critical of everything. I have to, so I'd be like, oh my God, and then that, and that's a little flat. And then so-and-so didn't come in on time. and oh, that's a horrible ending.

And, you know, like, I would be like that. I'd be critiquing the freaking thing. So forget that. I just want to remember what I remember. But when you go in, and I've never saying in a club or anywhere, but when you go in and experience something in the moment, your brain logs that. Like, ooh, that feeling, that was a great night.

Yes. Now, if you had video of that same night and what you did, you might go, oh, I was like a complete a hole over there. Yeah, no kidding. Or what happened to my hair? And it would change your entire memory of it. Yes, yes. And so experiential things, I'm really into that.

I'm really into that. And music taught me that. It really taught me to be that experiencing something rather than reading about it. These are two different things. Well, and this brings me, you probably didn't realize that was going to bring me to this. 1991 and the perfect storm, the 100-year storm, the not-so-perfect storm, you can read about it.

You can watch documentaries about it. I read the book, and I read his part about you, and I was saying to this before we started, that the best parts of the book are the facts, not the hypotheticals. It's the things. And to have it in your words was very, powerful to read or I believe your words right well I assume he's quoting you he quoted me but to

have you talk about it I uh I think and you know how are you I I interviewed Theo Flurry a while back and he's a man who's experienced some serious trauma in his life with child abuse and and stuff like that and and he talked about how talking about it is reliving it over again And so I come in here very, you know, you talked last night about, you know, I probably won't sleep that well. I don't sleep that well when I, because I understand what I'm asking of you. I understand that this is going to bring up some, some, some memories. If you're in the pocket, it does. If it's just a story that you're recalling, like if you tell something, if you tell your story long enough, it can become fiction.

Right? it can't. I just can become a fiction. Fictionalize account. Like I've, you talk to politicians. They just sell the same thing over ad nauseum, right? It's not real anymore. It's only when it's real that you, that you will have the emotional connection to back to the day.

That's right. Well, I'd like to talk about it a little bit. I'd love to hear about it in your words. Well, you just ask me questions. Sure. And I think that would start because it's, you know, like where do you start? Okay. Well, let's start here.

You graduated from U of A with a forestry degree? No, Lakewood. Oh, Lakewood. Lakewood, Thunder Bay. Yes. I did not know that. Yes. Okay.

So you graduated from Lakewood. Geez, I did not know that. All right. Well, I say that because I played three years in Dryden and I was in Thunder Bay all the time. All the time. All the time. Yes. The Terry Fox Monument over.

there. I'm, and Dustin and I rode by it and everything else, beautiful city. Some interesting parts in there.

Oh, yes, I bet there are. I'll interview you later. Well, how does a girl from a forestry

background end up on a ship doing fisheries work? Yeah. Yeah, how do you connect the dots,

right? So I graduated I mean, I worked in forestry in British Columbia. I actually, I graduated in Northern Ontario. I worked in Northern Ontario. Started in Manitouge, which is just above White River on the head of Superior. I worked there for a summer, and then I went out west and got a job on Vancouver Island. That's when I was the first forest ranger in all of...

the first female forest ranger. In all of Vancouver Island that was hired. You were the first woman to get hired. Yeah, as a forest ranger out of Port McNeil. And in any case, it rained 325 days that year. I think I told you that last night. And I thought, oh, this is gross. I can't take it anymore.

So I moved to the interior to the Coutney area. Started my own forest company. I had my own company with my boyfriend at the time and an engineer, and we worked for about another two years. And then in 1981, the IWA went on strike. It's the largest forest union in probably Canada. And they went on strike and there was no work. And they shut down everything.

And so I decided, coincidentally, I left my boyfriend at the time and decided I was going to go and visit a good friend of mine in Chester, Nova Scotia. And so that's what I did. Another friend of mine, we traveled across Canada, and when I got to Nova Scotia, and I saw the ocean, I knew the ocean. Like I knew it. I was like, yeah, DNA memory or whatever. I knew this place. So it was so incredible, such a strong draw. The ocean really talked to me.

And, you know, I kind of feel like the ocean said, hey, no, you have, stay here. This is, this is for you. Stay here. So I did. And I worked in forestry for a while. still the forest industry in Nova Scotia is a little different than most of Canada. Most Canada, 80% of the land is crown land. But in Nova Scotia, 80% of the land was privately owned.

Only 20% was crown land. So any of the forestry operations that were happening are privately owned. and so it was really much more difficult to get a job there and I was a woman in the early 80s there was still a huge stigma against hiring women in the bush and probably any non-traditional job right occupation right occupation so my boyfriend at the time there I had an accident and he was out of commission for like almost a year. And so I had to get

another job to pay the bills. And it was engineering. That's when I worked Geotech on the roads. So I was working on the roads at the time and that's when my good friend suggested that I drive him in for this job interview for this international fisheries observer job. And the money was really good. Like we made $250 a day back in 1980. Did I start? 85? Yeah. So that was like big money, right? And so I drove him in and got the job. So I had no idea what I was getting into. First of all, I wasn't even looking for the job. It wasn't a job that was on my radar. I had pretty well no idea of what I was going to do and how I was going to do. And how I was going to be, but all of a sudden I was at sea. Yeah.

Had you ever been on sea like that before? I had. When I worked out of Port McNeil, we used to take a boat launch across Johnson Strait, the Queen Charlotte Strait, to the mainland. So I was on a boat for the first time and big sea and heavy sea. But it was still, it's still, it's still the east coast of the islands, the west. coast, right? So it's still, you know, protected through the channel, right? When you say, I'm a guy who grows up on the prairies. Like I just, I don't even understand the ocean, right?

Like, yeah. When you say big and heavy sea, what do you mean? Okay, well, so the West Coast has an unbroken, like there's no land between. the west coast of Vancouver Island and Japan. So there's a lot of water. So what happens, if you know anything about physics and terms of wind? What happens with water when there's a lot of wind, right? The water moves very quickly and picks up speed very quickly. So the kinetic energy of the water increases and it becomes

heavier. And so heavy sea is, okay, I guess I have to think in terms of size, right, between three and ten meters waves. So heavy sea, choppy sea is when the waves are close together. A heavy sea or a heavy roll or a swell is when they're really far apart. but the ocean always has movement. The ocean is never still. Yeah, still. Never glass. Right?

So now juxtapose that with wind on land. What moves on the land? Does the land move? No, the land does not move. The trees, the houses, anything that sits on the land will move. But mostly, unless you're in a desert, you know, or a dune or whatever,

the land doesn't move, but water moves very quickly, boom, right? All you have to do is like blow on your cup of coffee and you can see the water move. Yeah. Right away, but the coffee cup isn't moving. So heavy sea is open ocean. So now the question becomes, do you remember the first time you ever went into heavy sea and what that was like? Yeah, I do. Yeah, I do. We had to jog. So when you're, so I was working on a, so when I got this job as Fisheries Observer, I had to learn marine biology. That was the first thing. So we had a whole course in marine biology because I had to learn what we were going to be doing with the fish.

Are you a marine biologist? No, I am not. No. Just taking courses on it. Yeah, no, I had to, but I had to know. I had to know what a marine biologist would be looking for. Okay. Because the fish, we were really studying the fish and the art of fishing and where the fish were being caught and who was catching them and at what depths and what the fish were eating and what shape they were in and what sex they were and how old they were. So I had to learn that. Okay. That wasn't hard. I mean, you know, really.

It's not that hard as biology. I'm a biologist. I love sciences. Like when I went to university, what did I take? Climatology, biology, botany, entomology, bugs, dandrology, dandrology, trees. I'm trying to think dirtology, dirt. Isn't, it's not dirtology.

Geology. No, geology is land. So, but I took all of these sciences. Wait, you're saying there's geology and then there's another one? Yes. The science of... The study of soil. Soil. Yeah. Very important to, for a forester to understand soils. Which makes sense. Yeah. Okay. Right. Yeah. So I mean, I love sciences. So that was, that was, I was really primed for that. I was primed. Maybe that's why I was hired. It was like, that was nothing. Getting used to being at sea and a heavy sea and an open ocean

on the Atlantic. That was something I wasn't sure how I was going to do because a lot of people get sick. A lot of people can't handle working in that kind of environment. How long did it take you to get over that? One trip. One trip? One trip and you're good with it.

Yeah. I didn't feel too good that whole trip. I can tell you that. I didn't feel good. And fish stink, especially guts. Like fresh fish don't smell. They do have a smell, but it's not a nasty smell. But guts, fish guts smell.

So if you're the least bit seasick and you're in the hold and you're working in the fish, you can, it's not good. It is so not good. But Gravall and I became very good friends. So, you know. Yeah. So, no, I was lucky in that I adapted fairly quickly. fairly quickly, fairly well to the sea life, yeah, to being at sea, to working at sea.

Was bad weather just, you knew going out you were going to get bad weather? Yes. It just happens every trip. Yes, generally every trip. And even when it's not bad weather, when you're steaming, you're moving at speed through the water. So we used to steam from Nova Scotia to Newfoundland. This is back when we sail the cod fishery. Okay.

So we used to fish off the coast of Newfoundland and Labrador. So we would steam for two and a half days. So when you're steaming, you're at speed. Oh, I don't know what the speed would be. You're over 20 knots. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. Right? On the Atlantic.

So even if it's not bad weather, you're still moving. You're still hammering. Oh, hammering. We used to call it pounding. We're pounding. because that and the and the boats I was on they weren't really the best when they when the hold was empty when the hold was empty they sat high in the water yeah they're dragers right later on when the when the hold is full then you sit nicely in the water and you don't pound so much right

but you know so a couple gravels and you know I'd be fine for two and a half days I used to read a lot You used to take tons of books? Tons of books. I would bring a sea bag full of books. But the Russians, when I started working on the Russian boats, they called it my bibliotecu, right? Library. And I'd be like, that's right.

They try to pick it up, right? Well, books are heavy, right? This was before Kobo. I have a Kobo now. I've got a lot of books on it. But it's really tiny. Do you like reading in that on a side note? I love it.

Do you? Reading off the screen? I love it. I'll tell you why. Yeah. I never had really good eyesight. I had an accident when I was in grade four. Yeah, grade four.

And I broke some bones in my forehead. What did you do? I was tripped and I hit a marble wall and... Ooh, blah, blah. Anyway, I've had eyesight problems ever since then. So I don't have good eyesight. And the covo is backlit. And it's so...

Easy to read for you. Oh, my God. And I can adjust the font. So I've been reading my whole life. Tiny little tiny print, like, holy shit. Right. And I can, I can make the font really big. And it's really great.

I love it. And you turn the pages the same way. You just turn the pages like that. And also, too, it's so light. Like I'm reading a book right now. Oh, it's a fabulous book. It's called, um, oh, where is it? Oh, give her, give her.

Well, it's by Stephen Price. And I just can't remember the name. Just give me a second. So it's by Gaslight by Stephen Price. It was shortlisted for the, or long listed for the Giller Prize. So if you know anything about books, the Giller Prize is a prize for literature. In any case, I'm at 1,8473 pages, and it's 4,477 pages. So, how thick do you think this book would be?

How heavy do you think this book would be if I was holding the book? Well, it'd be a big book. A big honker. Right? A lot of pages. So there's my book. And a tiny little, and look at my font, and there's my backlet. And here's the other thing I really like about it. If I don't, so this is set in London in 1885, and it features one of the original Pinkertons.

Okay. Detective. So it's really a detective, kind of a detective story set in London. Oh, yeah. It's really fascinating, fascinating, and really well written. But some of the language is old.

Yeah. And you don't know. You can't understand it. It's one of the best things about reading is when you come across a word and you're like, what on earth does that mean? So what I do, for example, Let's just find something here.

Okay. I see something. Oh, okay. It says, those berserkers, they cut their own tongues out to stay quiet. A mall swap. I know.

She told me them berserkers, keep hordes of rats. Heard them like sheep. So what's a berserker? Say, I don't know. You can click on it and I'll give you the destination. I touch it. and berserker

An ancient Scandinavian warrior frenzied in battle and held to be invulnerable Or two, one whose actions are recklessly defiant So I or I actually want to know

What Malswap No definition So sometimes you don't get A definition Sometimes you do It takes the effort For you It is an easier read

It helps me Understand the story as I'm reading it rather than, you know, I used to have a dictionary with me. Yeah. Like I used to... Well, an actual dictionary. A book. You know, imagine that.

But before, you know, that is life in general now. In order to drive from Lloydminster, Alberta, Saskatchewan, to Port Albany, we would have packed a few maps. We would have, I don't know, sent you a call when we're leaving, maybe called you in Vancouver. You would have mapped out your journey before you left. But we would have called you the day before we left, said, we'll roughly be there around this time. And we would have showed up. Yes. Instead.

You texted me. We text and we put it on her phone and we GPS. I love a good, I drive a lot for work. So I listen to a lot of audible books. Yes. Which can be good and bad. Andray does too. It can be good and bad because there are some that are fantastic.

And you can't, it's like a good book. You can't put it down. You don't want to get out of the truck. You're like, yeah. What do I do now, right? Like this is hot. And then you get some and they get the old voice and you just kind of draw. Andre puts them on like triple speed.

Yeah, double speed. I'm like, oh, how can you listen to that? It's crazy. When I started researching people before I come on, I go, like, I could sit here and listen to them at average speed. or I can take it like I'm trying to compress it so I can learn as much about them as humanly possible. So on an audible book or a podcast,

if they've done a lot of podcasts, you put it up to a speed and a half or two speed, and if you're just listening to learn, I think it's very doable. I never thought that like two months ago. If you're listening for enjoyment, nothing beats just on regular speed, just listen as it goes.

Well, I listen to CBC. I'm a CBC girl. When I was at C, that's all I could get. with CBC. Yeah, I used to sneak up a wire up the tallest tower. Yeah, antenna that I could. And I'd have to get it into my cabin,

which was always on the port or the starboard side of the boat, right? And so sometimes it was not like the easiest thing to do. It was quite, people would be like, what are you doing? Oh, nothing. And because they all spoke Russian, right, or Japanese. Or Spanish. They are Cuban boats. So, you know, very few people spoke English.

So CBC was my connection to my Canadian, to be Canadian, everything. So I listened to CBC. Like I know, you know, CBC was my go-to. So I still listen to CBC. I listen to podcasts on CBC. I listen to, you know, I love. I just love the stories. I love Q. I've listened to Q forever. And as it happens and that kind of stuff, I was interviewed for as it happens, by the way. Have a tape somewhere. Somewhere. You know, you can't find any of those interviews. Michael Enright. He's dead now. You can't find any of that online, or at least I couldn't. Yeah, I have Michael Enright. He interviewed me. They called me when I got back from C and said, you know, they really wanted to do an interview on as it happens.

right? And I'm like, I have been drinking because I'd just gotten home and all my friends had come over to my place and we were just all sitting around drinking whatever, you know. And I said, are you sure? I've been drinking. And he said, yeah, no, if you think you can do it, let's do it. So we did do an interview. When I listened to it now, I sound fairly normal. But I was out of it. as I had to be, right? Going back to sea, you mentioned Russians, and I know during the storm you're on a Japanese boat. Yes.

Was that all, so you were going, was that part of the job then? Yeah, was to go work on foreign boats? Yeah, mostly that's what I did. I very rarely worked on Canadian domestic draggers. I generally worked on foreign nationals that were, We're within the 200-mile limit of the Canadian. So, yeah, because every foreign national boat that is within our 200-mile limit has to have a fisheries observer on board. If they're fishing in our zone, they have licenses, they have licensing requirements.

That's part of our job to make sure that they're good boys and girls. So what is it like getting on a boat? You know, I know what it's like to go to a foreign country and be by yourself. and have very few people, if any, that can converse with you in English. And so it's an interesting dive into oneself because, you know, I just talked about, you know, talk. I love talking to people. Well, imagine how I was when all I could get back was, eh, or a few kind of things in sign language or whatever else, right? What was, like, how long would you go to sea with these boats?

And then how did you deal? Was it just reading? And listening to me to CBC, that's how you passed the time? I'd go to, I'd go to sea for, generally speaking, 30 days. 30 days? But sometimes I've been to see, the longest I've been at sea is 68 days. 68 days with no land. That's right, yeah.

But these guys have been, like the Russians and the Japanese, go to see. for six to six months to a year at a time. So, you know, yeah, they were away from home for a long, long time. But I'd go for a month to two months, okay? Two weeks for the Canadians, like a, but all about a month for the foreigners. And how would I pass the time? I was busy. I worked 24-hour days.

So I worked around the clock because they fished around. on the clock. If they're fishing, I'm working. So I would observe about 98% of the hallbacks and work in the fish during the day. So I had a lot of different jobs that I had to do. So I had to monitor the bridge, all of the log books, make sure that they were where they said they were, right? Because they had to write in their logbooks, what their locations were, where they were fishing, blah, blah, blah, you're going to make sure that they're not screwing with you because they would really like to catch Haddock and Pollock and Cod. But we don't want them to catch that because that's not what their license says.

Their license says you can have silver hake which Canadians don't eat. So you have to be on the ball. You have to be in the hold. These are 350 foot ships, massive factory free. freezer trawlers. And going in the hold is the scariest thing you've ever done because it's really cold down there. And there's, and it's vast. And you can freeze to death in, oh, half an hour. On the Japanese boats, blast freezers. They have blast freezers. They freeze a tuna solid in 15 minutes. So, and the Japanese don't like you. They don't. They don't.

want you on their boat and they definitely don't like you if you're female because it goes against their religious beliefs. A woman is bad luck on a boat. So I would never go in the blast rezers. I went once, once, one time only and my first thought was if somebody shuts that door, I'm going to be dead in 15 minutes so I never went back in. But I made sure that I measured every single fish that ever went into the hold. So I didn't have to go into the hold. So for example, you're eating and they haul back and they catch a fish and they put them in the blast freezer, right? So you've got to go in there and you've got to measure that fish. You've got to sex that fish. You've got to identify it, blah, blah, blah. So I would just tell them, you leave these fish on the deck.

Right? And you can tell when they're hauling back. The sound of the motor changes. Right? Oh, there's just a, a real different sound. You're attuned to that. So I never had to worry. But no, I didn't like going in the holes. The big boats, the big trawlers, like I said, 350 feet. Big, massive, floating, you know, factories is what they were. Right. Very bizarre. But there was always somebody who spoke English, but not very good. Like there was always someone who was trying, and they wanted to practice, too, they're English on you and that's fine except for sometimes

you just want to hear fluent English don't you and that's what CBC was for me and then I brought music with me and I would practice music and learn music and listen to music when you had free time and weren't measuring fish but you see I worked 24 hours a day

so I had a lot of time during the day I just worked a full day right so I'd have two hours here three hours there right yeah spurts One hour, yeah, and I would sleep in between because I'd have to get up in the night when they haul back. Because if you don't get up when they haul back, then they can say, oh, we caught this much.

How many fish would they catch at a time? Like how many fish are you measuring and getting the sex and age and everything else? When I first started, we were catching big. The caught end was like we're talking 20 tons, 30 tons. Like a caught in that was floating on the water as they were hauling it back. You could see it floating out on the water just full of fish. But how many fish in a ton? Like I understand the weight, but...

I can't remember. Like we're talking hundreds? Thousands? Thousands of fish and you have to measure them off? No. You have to estimate them. You have to estimate them. You have to get really good. We used to call it guesstimation.

Well, and not only that, but they haul the caught end up. They come in, they have this huge 5,000 pound doors. So that's keeping the cod end open in the water. These are pelagic tralls. So the caught end is open. It's like a big sock, right? And it's being drugged through the water, and the fish are swimming into it and getting caught, right?

And then they can't get out because of the force of the water, right? Because as long as it's pulling. Right, there's water pressure. So when they pull it up, they pull it in, and then they empty, they empty, empty, they have big, huge cables. Really dangerous. Frigging dangerous.

People have died instantly when these cables give, right? Cut people's heads off, like legs off, like really, really dangerous. And they're not, you know, all that well maintained to say that, especially the Russians. Like they were rusting metal hulks is what they were, like from some goddamn, you know, the Cold War, whatever, whoa, and I'm going to be in this is your, this is your cabin. And the water used to pee out, like you have to have a shower, right?

It would just pee on top. Anyway, so the coden comes up. And as it's being dropped into the hold, a big door opens up. in the floor and the fish are being dropped into the into the hold of the ship you're estimating you estimate how much by how long it takes basically right how long it takes to drop it and and you're and you're watching to see what kind of fish are coming into so is it mostly hake is it mostly this is there a few haddock Haddock was a

prohibited species so they had they had 1% bycatch limit on that so they had to be really careful that they weren't catching Haddock or they get kicked out of the zone they caught too much so you know you watch as it goes down you get a pretty good idea

of what's in there then you go down to the hold and you start they start processing because it's a factory freezer trawler so they're freezing them they're gutting them and freezing them as, and, and putting them in the hold fresh, freshly frozen. So you're down there, you just have to go down there and watch. What's coming in?

And then there's a big hole with awful. So what's in the guts? Do you see any haddock in there? You know, they might want to get rid of those because they don't want to get kicked out of the zone. So there's always tricks, right? So you get a pretty good idea of what, and then you go of what's coming into the ship, you know, and you do it, I did it for many, many years, eight years. And then you go up and every night the technologue would write in the log books, what was caught, how much was caught, what was frozen, what was bycatch, what was fishmeal, fish meal, all. the awful goes to fish meal. You could tell an awful lot about what was on a ship by the

fish meal because you work backwards. It's just science, right? How much awful to make a bag of fish mail? You just figure it out. And if there was a lot of fishmeal and not enough fish in the log books, you'd say, well, hey, you know, something's a little bit odd here. You got all this. And not only that, but I would go and count the bags. The bags were easy to count. I didn't like going in the hold because my hands used to freeze up. And I used to worry about, and I'd be there by myself in the hold. Fuck, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you slipped and,

and you had to climb up these cold metal frozen ladders to get out straight up, right? and you're there by yourself, it's like, yeah, I kind of, I used to do it for like the first two, three years, and then I wouldn't do it anymore. I just like, you know what? I was good enough at my job. I could figure, I don't have to go down and count the boxes. So did you realize, you know, I listen to all that, and I go like, when you can, you're understanding that you're in, at times a perilous position. You're in a spot that is maybe not. Yeah. And you got no friends on both.

Work safe BC would not like it. They'd be like, you're not going down there without another person and you're going to have this. And you can only stay down for this many minutes, right? That's right. Did you ever, you know, you said you started that in 1985, 86, 85. So you're doing it six years before you ever get anywhere near the storm. The storm. So you always.

enjoyed it. You talked about the sea colin to you when you went out there. You loved it. I loved it. It was hard. It was hard. I felt pride in the fact that I was really good at my job. I had pride in my job in my work. I like my own company, so I don't mind being alone. It's a privilege. It was a privilege to see the things and experience the things that I experience. Very few people in the world experience those things. Have seen moonlight at 2 in the morning while you're hauling back and, you know, you're

looking around and it looks like little mushrooms all over the deck because their hard hats would glow, you know? That's all you could see with little hard hats. And maybe you're, a couple of lights on the fish. And like it was a privilege to see and experience something that, yeah, it's been with me my whole life. It'll be with me my whole life. I've written so much about it. So visceral, right? So cool.

I loved it. Yeah, I loved it. in the years preceding 91 was there any a time that you experienced anything remotely like that storm I mean you talk about going out every time there was a storm

oh yeah there's always there were gales so a gale you know so there's a system of accountability in terms of what is what is a storm so it's called the Beaufort scale The Beaufort scale goes from zero to 12.

Right. So each graduation is a little bit different. And I actually had to do climatology. I took climatology. So I had to every day gauge, you know, I had like a sheet, and I had to estimate wind speed and how much rain had fallen. And what's the sea? What Beaufort is the sea?

And what was the trough, you know, between the peak, the top of the wave and the bottom of the wave. What's the trough and how close they are together? So I used to do that every single day. So you get really good at looking at the waves and the sea and knowing what the weather is. Yeah, you can just look right away. You know, are there white caps? How big are the white caps?

How close are they together? You know, because, you know, these are 350-foot boats that you're on. So you're looking, you're on the bridge is quite high up. You're not like right down there at the water, right? So yeah, no, I've been in lots of storms. I've been in lots of storms and storms that were so bad that you couldn't fish. So when a storm is really bad, so we're talking, you know, a heavy gale on the Atlantic Ocean. And I've been in, I've been in, like I worked in the winter.

or two. Whereas ice so that the whole boat is covered on the windward side, covered in ice. Just heavy ice, like thick ice, like, you know, so that the crew would have to take mallets and go out. And bust everything all? Yeah, they call, yeah, pound the ice. That's when you're really glad you're a fisheries observer. Yeah, I'm just staying here in the bridge, watching them. pound the ice because the whole boat is listing because it's so heavy right so heavy with ice oh yeah but anyway bad bad weather we

would jog so that means we can't fish and sometimes we would jog in the lee of of a piece of land like so cape brace in newfoundland is a um like a peninsula and we would we would sit in the lee of the wind and wait the storm out. So just hide from it? Yeah. You just wait because you can't fish anyway. And sometimes, you know, the storm would come upon you and you'd be fishing. So you still have to haul back. Still got to get that net in, right? Or you lose the net. You lose a lot of money. And people, yeah, you're not going to do that. No. So, yeah, I've been in a lot of bad weather. So this storm then, does it, when it's starting, or even like, you can see the water starting to pick up, right? You can see the waves, you're going, we got something coming.

I had no idea. So on the Japanese boat, so it was a Japanese tuna trawler. So they're a little bit different than the big boats that I used to work on. So a tuna trawler is only 150 feet long. and it sits the one that I was on the Isha Meru was out of Hokkaido, Japan

so they've been at sea for a year already they just follow the tuna wherever they go they don't go home for like a year a year and a half it's just brutal brutal life they drank a lot just so you know

they really like CC Canadian Club whiskey fry whiskey I had a bad experience once when I was 20 so not for me. Even the bottle. Just makes me shudder.

So the 150 foot boat is not a big boat, right? So you'd think that it wouldn't take a sea well, but it actually took the sea better than the big boats. Because it was a concrete hull. So they sit really deep in the water, and they've got a lot of tuna in there, right? So the ballast. They're beautiful boats, beautiful, seaworthy boats.

So they're not the kind of boats that you worry about. When you're deployed to a Japanese boat, you're like, huh? It's all good, you know. What you don't like is the Japanese. Just because the way you're treated. Because you're treated like shit, like nothing, especially, even the guys. you're treated like you're an infidel, like I'm not kidding. So you're not Japanese.

It doesn't matter that you're female or male. You're not Japanese. And you were not treated with deference. Any other boat, any other foreign boat, you were treated like you were goddess. You were the goddess. Anything you want, anything you need, you know, we'll bring it to you. But on the Japanese boat, they would just blink at you. you tell them that what you need and they just blink.

So does that mean that you got it, they understand? And remember, they speak Japanese and you don't. So there's that communication thing. But I mean, I've been working at sea for a long time. I know how to communicate without knowing the language. I learn all the numbers and all the names of the fish and hall back and setting and high flyers. There's all the keen terms so you know. You could just use a piece of paper and you can draw pictures.

You can do, like communication is not that big of a deal after you do it for a long time. Because you know how to, you know. In any case, the Japanese don't like you and they don't want to be told what to do and they don't like the scrutiny at all. So you're on this boat and I heard nothing because. they don't tell you anything. They won't tell you anything unless you ask. So you have to know how to ask. You have to know the right question to ask before you can get an answer. The first thing I knew about a storm coming is that they have weather, they have incredible equipment on these

boats. Incredible. I mean, these people were into technology a long time before we embrace. this kind of technology. Their fishing technology was hugely advanced compared to ours. And they were getting weather, they had fax machines and they were getting weather reports. And they got a weather report. I wish I had to kept it. Big storm. Just white. Right? You couldn't even see the center. So when you see that, you know that is a very low, pressure storm coming your way because the um what do you call those um lines pressure lines are very close together i forget what they're called i just read it and i can't think it yeah yeah but you know what i mean right so really really close together and you know ooh it basically looked like a hurricane

that's what it looks like if you see if you if you watch the weather network now they'll show it they'll show you those pictures, right? And you're like, oh, you know, it's bad. You know, like, because basically Laura's coming into the Florida Panhandle soon. I think probably hitting today or who knows. It's scary looking because you know it's packing a lot of wind. So that was the first thing. And it was called Hurricane Grace and was coming up from Bermuda.

That's the first thing I knew. So I asked the, the captain, what was happening, and yeah, we're probably not going to fish. So that's the second clue. The Japanese will fish in anything. Money talks. Money, money, money. If they're not fishing, they're not making money.

And if they're if they're not fishing, it's got to be bad. So it's a long line. it's about 120 kilometers long and punctuated by high flyers that sit above the water so the long line is in the water catching tuna right and so 120 miles of tangled line or broken line or searching for line so if it's really going to be bad weather they don't fish but it's got to be really bad so that's when I knew it was going to be bad because they weren't going to fish they'll fish in anything I have been on the deck I've broken ribs on the deck just been thrown into the ice house door just oh and a long liner the the tuna comes up over the side it's not a it doesn't haul back over

the stern so you head into the weather or head into and and the and the and the and the long and the coiler is just coiling the ropes up as they come in and then the high flyers come in and they take them off unhook them and if there's tuna they unhook them and measure them got them freeze them yeah so it i mean the weather that comes and so there's a there's a board on on the starboard side that they take off you know like it just slots in so when you're you're steaming, of course, it's all good. But when they're bringing in tuna, they have to have a place for the line to come in,

and they have to, they have these pikes. They have to pick the fish up, I'm sorry, fish up with. Yeah, so the weather, they, they, they fish in anything. And anything. Honestly, it's friggin' scary. You're out there with your survival suit on, and they're all there in black rain gear. We've lost people in the ocean

And they don't swim I was on a boat once that searched for three and a half hours for a lost sailor Gave up And then what happens Then they go back to fishing It's just a different world Right And you're worth nothing to them

You're worth nothing You're a thorn in their side It's a very unsettling feeling to be on a Japanese boat I'm not saying this because I'm a racist At all This is what it was like And they didn't like me at all Because I was

Let's be very very clear here Yeah I know the world we live in is Is different now than it was then But what you're saying there's no I don't get any racist from it all It's a very intriguing Look back

Yeah Yeah So I find it So The first thing you get is a weather report that hurricane crisis. That's right. Then they say they're knocking out the fish. Fish. So what do you do? You haul an ass for the coast?

Well, the truth is I was happy. The first thing is that you're happy because I worked 15-hour days. Yeah. No work today. 15-hour days for 30 days. You're going to get to practice some singing, maybe a little of CBC. And you start, they set all night. So they set the line at night and they haul back in the afternoon. So you work all afternoon, all night, you go to bed in the morning. It's a long frigging hall.

You're not talking, and they don't talk to you. Once again, I come back to, I can't believe you enjoyed this so much. A lot of this just sounds, like you get this big grain on your face. Sounds like torture? Well, it just secluded, even though people around, secluded with foreign nationalities on this boat specifically. They don't like you. So you got a bunch of people around that don't like you. Don't speak your language.

You're working all hours of the night. Even if they aren't consecutive, you're still working all hours of the night. Yeah. It's got to be one of the most dangerous, if not the most dangerous job on the planet. It's pretty dangerous. It's pretty dang close. Yeah. So I'm looking at all that.

And we're not even talking about how you get on the boat. You have to try and ship to the boat to get on. to the boat. Sometimes it's even more dangerous than actually working on the boat. But anyway, we'll talk about that later. Hold that thought for a second. I'm around, so I look at all these things lining up on my hand and I go, okay, so why would you do it? Money?

Money was really good. Okay, so money is definitely a part of the equation. $250 a day. So when you came back from a stint out there, you had money in the pocket. Flush. Yeah? Flash, baby.

Let's party. How long would you come back to shore for? It depended on the season. So if we were in the fish, if it was the fishing season, you could come back for three days and you'd be out again. Oh, you didn't have time to spend the money. You had barely time to get home and do your laundry and then get back in again. But when the season was over, you had a month off, two months off.

Well, you earned it, though. I traveled. I was in Thailand and Australia and Malaysia and Bali and Australia or the Philippines I went to right I would travel I had the money young single and tons of money yeah and I was good looking too so yeah I had it all and you know a pocket full of confidence right Yeah, right there. Okay. I can't, that makes sense then to me.

So let's go back to this then. Actually, before we get to the storm, you're saying getting from the coast to the boat was sometimes the most dangerous because you're out in a smaller boat getting hauled out to a... That's right. We would have to take launches. If the boats don't come into the harbor to...

Usually, it used to be in Halifax, Pier 21, Pier 22. you would have to, they would anchor out at Chibokto Head, which is the mouth of the harbor coming in, and you would take a boat launch out to them. Or you would take a boat launch out to another boat, and then that boat would go out to the fishing grounds, and then you would get off. Oh yeah, it could be very, very dangerous. In fact, I believe that that was the most dangerous part of the job.

was getting on and off a boat. Think about it. Think about a 350 foot factory freezer trawler. And you're in a tiny little lifeboat, a lifeboat. And you're going to, you have to get up. And all you have is a rope ladder. So you got to wait and the waves are pounding against the boat. So the waves are smashing against the bigger boat, right? So the lifeboat is. is going like this. So what do you have to do? You have to have really good timing. You have to wait until that split second where you grab the rope and scramble up and don't lose your leg in the next smash, right? And getting off of the ladder, actually that was easier than actually getting onto the lifeboat. It's easier to go that way than to go back because you've got to jump.

It comes up and you, no! And there's a hole in the lifeboat. And there's a hole in the lifeboat. It's lifeboat. It's not an open lifeboat. It's an enclosed lifeboat round, like the Russians have these rounded. In fact, my husband came to get me in one of these. That was the first time he met me. Was in a lifeboat. He was the navigator. And I was the lady. That was fun. He came to get me, right? He's like, who is this crazy woman? And they, yeah. So getting on and off the lifeboat, In fact, I have refused to leave a boat before. And then people are really pissed off with you. Because that's money.

Money. If you're not getting off, then the other life, the other fisheries observer isn't getting on. Right? But we're still getting paid, right, aren't we? We're still getting paid. But if the weather's too dangerous, you have to make those decisions. Right? It's your life.

Nobody else is. I learned very early on that you've got to look after yourself. And it's your responsibility. It's no one else's responsibility but yourself. So you do learn to have a heck of an attitude early because you have to, you know, you have to have that confidence. You've got to make split second decisions. Do you miss that adrenaline rush? Oh, like I mean.

Do I miss it? Yes. You know, I talk about the money. Yes. But the adrenaline that you must have felt almost. Every single day. Not only the adrenaline, but the enormous confidence it gives you as a human being that you are able and you're smart and you're a survivor, right?

I know I'm moving around, right? Just that whole, you know, this is what a lot of women don't, or a lot of people maybe don't find you know it's when you're successful that you learn to trust yourself trust your gut you got a that's a big lesson in life is learning to trust yourself right and and only yourself it was hard to get married really hard for me 38 and i had done this my whole life I had gotten to a place where I knew that if anything should happen, I could handle it. I could learn anything. I still feel that way.

I could learn anything. If I have to learn it, I'll learn it. Yeah, so that, the confidence it gives you, that self-esteem, it's powerful. That's the candy, right? that's the stuff you want self-esteem yeah I missed that you miss that yeah I was on the site

yesterday and everybody treated me like I was you know useless totally freaking useless because I don't know how to pick up a wall all I can all I can think of as a farmer analogy is tits on a bowl

just useless yes so sometimes you know it's nice to be acknowledged that you actually have something and so that's yeah so that's why this this aging thing and retiring I mean I had hugely I was a hugely popular fitness professional I did I was an expert and I had the most fun the most fun my classes were the most fun and the most rewarding classes. So I had a huge following. And then I was retired and I was nobody.

Just a silly question. You ever thought of starting a podcast or something where you talk to people? Yeah, all the time. So why don't you do it? I think you'd love it. I think you were probably one of the, you know, we were talking about this last night, how easy it is to fall in a group. But this is, man, I came here wanting to talk about Perfect Storm and other things, right? I know. I'm so sorry. No. But it's not like this is painful for me.

This is quite enjoyable. Certain people just have the knack for it, sit across from somebody in. Yes, I'm very aridite. But because I'm so good at so many things, it's really hard for me to focus on one of them. Like, truly, right now I'm building a house. So I'm Okay last year I had cancer I had to get through that

So that was my focus Okay so this year we're building a house Well I gotta get through that So next year is anybody's guess Next year I'm hoping I feel like the world is my oyster Who knows what I'm going to do I actually want to write a book

Or several books I actually have written Already a book of poetry That I could publish today Oh you'd love love my poetry. I'll send you some. You should send me some. Especially the C stuff, right? Because that's when I started writing, because that window, that unique window into that world, right?

And I'm very good writer. I write prose. I write the way I speak, the way I am. I write, that's how I write. How else can I write? Like I don't get that when people say, you know, you have to write what you know, and I'm like, yeah, no kidding. else it just sounds like bullshit, you know, like a famous president who he won't name, you know. But everybody will know who it is. They can't see my face, right? So it's still good because one time I did this documentary on the perfect storm. And did you ever see that?

No. Called the Storm of the Century. Oh, I should look it up. Yeah, BBC did it in conjunction with Channel 9. You know, it's funny. I searched everything online. You tried finding any videos and I could find the old weather like, I don't know. I got a ton of stuff I could send you.

It's all good. Yeah. But in any case, I did this interview. I was pregnant with Solomon, I think. Was I pregnant with Solomon? No, it must have been Elijah. They flew me to Gloucester, Boston, in Massachusetts. Massachusetts.

Where the Andrea Gale left from. Left from. And I got to go in the pub and I got to be, yeah. I got to be at the place where the monument for people who died at sea, for those who go to the sea in boats. So I came home, right? and a lot of them didn't come home. I got to go right there from where they left and they never came back.

Why did they bring you there? I don't know. We did the interview on a boat and they blocked out everything in the boat, right? I don't know. Maybe they wanted this, right? Maybe that's what they wanted. I know, but that's a... The feeling, it was tough.

It was really tough because I don't... I, you know, I was, I'm the lucky one. I told you that before. I'm the lucky one. I survived. But I survive with a little bit of survivor's guilt. Certainly the cancer did that too, right? But there are people who didn't survive.

And I did. So I can be blithe about cancer, can't I? That's easy for me. I'm not battling, right? this very moment. I'm going to live a long life. My dad's 93. There you go.

But no, I went to Gloucester and we did the interview there. And when my husband saw it, he said, oh, my God. He said, you're just like a monkey. He said, your face. You're so hyper-mobile, you know. Animated. Right. And then I watched it, and I was like, oh, my, I was just mortified.

so I would rather people hear me rather than see me not because I don't like what I look like or I'm ashamed of who I am but it's just you know we're all struggling to love ourselves completely and I don't know anybody who loves themselves completely completely all in and I'm You know, one of them. Don't love that. See myself and go, gosh, do I have to do that? Apparently, yes. Yeah.

I hate to bring it up, but going back, you know, we've talked about different parts of working on the sea and your love of working on the sea and everything that came with it. Do you guys head in then? Is that, is that, you're, you see the weather coming? You see, they're not going to fish, so you're excited? We jogged. And you jog. We just jogged.

So jogging means that you stay in one place. Oh, you stay in one place? You just stay in one place. So you're going to jog it out. So you're just going to essentially, you're going to wait for the weather to come and then you're, So at what point does the weather come and you're like, oh, that was a poor choice? Well, you have, okay, so when you're on a Japanese boat, you're not alone. There's probably six to seven other boats, and we're all in a line, and we all fish in a line.

So like parallel lines. Really? Okay. So they're all jogging too. Yeah. So you're all sitting out there, just jogging along. And they all have fisheries observers on them, and we've all done this before. Okay. So this is, this is.

Oh, no, and I'm happy. I'm not working. Yeah. This is standard operation. Yay, I can read, I can sit in my bunk, I can muck around, I can catch up on all the paperwork, right? I have to, you know, there's a crap load of paperwork, crap load of paperwork. He's just always doing paperwork, right?

Research paperwork and blah, blah, blah. So I'm very, very happy to not be going anywhere until the weather hits. and so basically I'm in my bunk sleeping when we lose the bridge. So it's really a shock and a surprise. It's not something that you think of is going to happen to you. You just don't imagine that you're driving down the highway and you're going to get hit by a car the next second. Do you? Do you anticipate that?

Because if you did, you might, you know. You wouldn't drive. Exactly. Or you'd maybe stop or... The fact that you're jogging in six other boats or five other boats are jogging along with you says everybody just thought, ah, it's a storm and it's going to come and it's going to pass and it's going to be okay. So nobody knew how powerful the storm was going to be because what happened is that, so this hurricane forms off of Bermuda.

and the warm weather's of Bermuda. So it's, I think they called it a Hurricane 3 at that point. It starts to move up the eastern seaboard. It doesn't move on to land. Okay, so it just skirts land. So it's just gathering power. It does create quite a bit of problems. I mean, there's still a lot of damage in Massachusetts.

and but what happens when it gets to it's it's about let's say i'm just thinking about 300 kilometers off off the um yeah the the the southern tip of nova scotia would be yarmouth down there and it and it starts to veer into the ocean so its trajectory changes and And it starts coming towards us. At the very same time, there was a low pressure system coming down from Labrador, Quebec. So cold, weather, low pressure. So they met in the ocean about 300 kilometers. I was about 150 kilometers offshore, off the Scotian shelf.

This happened another 100 kilometers or 50. I don't know, quite sure. Yeah, but close. Out there. then something bizarre happened it it went retrograde so which means it instead of just spinning off into nothingness it came back to shore so this very rarely happens so who could have predicted it right it came back into shore um the andrea gale was on um the nose and tail of the grand banks of Newfoundland

fishing swordfish and they had had a heck of a catch and didn't want to leave. They knew this weather was coming but they didn't want to leave because they wanted to fish and you know those are the decisions

that fishing boats make. Money. Money. Risk. Or a broker. And a broker. broker trip means you make nothing. You went out there and you came back and

and sometimes it's negative because you have to pay gas and blah blah. Anyway, so they were coming back towards Gloucester. So they're coming back into Nova Scotia and the weather turned and just swallowed them up. And of course that and hit us at relatively the same time. So we lost our bridge.

this was the middle of the night. I heard a big explosion. My cabin was right behind the bridge. So I had a cabin right behind the bridge. In fact, right behind where the captain sits on the bridge. They have a small bridge in these boats and low. And I hit this explosion and we don't have doors. We have curtains. So I pull back the curtain and they're just water running down. the hallway, just water, you know, like a foot of water, sea water. I know what kind of water it is. And it's like, so I got my pants on, you know, my boots on. And I'm on the bridge and we've just, you know, it really wasn't a devastating hit. It just took out the windows of the bridge. So it was just a giant wave? That's right. And the windows on a Japanese boat are double pain. Okay. Double

paint, small, like really strong, just took out a window. That's it. Blue the gyroscope. So the gyro is the compass, sea compass. Right? Took that out. And on the back of a Japanese bridge is electronics. Just a wall of electronics on each side. So here's the bridge. Here's the bridge. Here's the gyro, here's the gang way. These are the cabins. Okay. Right. In the back is the galley. Back further are, we're all, you know, a lot of high flyers gear is stored, right? So, um, just sparks and smoke and confusion and a little tiny explosions as the electricity as the electrical, wires pop, right? A lot of popping. Yeah, so that was that. It wasn't a big deal. You said you're jogging with six other boats. Do the other boats get hit by this way?

No. Just you guys. No, they got hit by the storm, but nobody lost power. So do, after the first wave, did the other five boats are like, we got to now we got to start moving? You can't move. Can't move. It's a hundred, there's a, it's 120 to 140. 50 mile an hour winds. Where are you going? You can't outrun that. What kind of a powerful boat is going on a run? Okay, so... Could you turn and run with it? No. Okay, so when you're jogging, you have to head into the weather. Okay. Right? You have to head into the weather because then you have some control, especially if you've got power. So you keep the nose into the weather. So you're up, and you're down, right?

And you're up and you're down. What happens if you turn broadside? What happens? Wave comes over top. That's right. Broadside. So you never want to go broadside in that kind of weather. Unless you can turn really quickly. But in a big boat like that, that would be non-existent?

Well, not only that, but we were in the eye of the storm, which we didn't know at that time. But the eye of the storm is where there's a confused sea. so the sea wasn't just this way. You're getting slammed from everywhere. That's right. It was like a cork in a bathtub. You're just being thrown every which way. You're just like on the surface.

So there was no way to get back to shore. That is impossible. No, you can't get back to shore. No, that window's been closed. Escape is out the door. So now it's just hold on. That's right. hold on and

so anyway not long after this happens the the captain actually on a Japanese boat the captain is not the captain on any other boat the captain is the highest ranking official

okay okay but on a Japanese boat the fishing master is the highest is the highest ranking official okay and the the captain is kind of like the first mate for a second mate, right?

They just run the boat. Okay. But the fishing master, ooh, he's the big guy, he came to me. Observe a son. And you know. Come with me. Come with me.

So we went down to the radio room. So they have a radio operator. And the radio operator has his own cabin, has his own, just a wall of, you know, electronic equipment, sat nav on this side, blah, blah, blah,

and they want me to call a May Day. That's what they want me to do, because I'm the only English speaker on the boat. So I called a May Day. And May Day is when? May Day is the highest emergency alert that any boat can call. So it's May Day. I'm trying to remember now.

Then it's Pan Pan. I think there's three. Mayday means that any boats in the area, if they can, without putting their own cruise at risk, come. Must come. Not come, but must come. You have to come if you can. And so were there any boats in the area?

Did you have the other five sitting there? Well, they couldn't come. They're just trying to bob and weave as best they can to. That's right. And so the, that's when, so I'm giving my May Day, you know, like, so you'll never forget that. May Day, May Day, May Day, this is the Aisian Maroon No, 78. The Aish and Maroon number 78, May Day, May Day, May Day. Does anybody read, you know, and you're just like, wait, waiting, wait, does anybody read, right?

And nothing, nothing. Then I hear some traffic. I don't think it happened right then, but I heard a little bit of traffic. I heard the, I heard the Andrea Gale calling out, calling out for help. I was probably the last person to hear them. That's all I heard.

I didn't even know who they were. I had no idea. I had nothing, no information. It was like a month later, you know, after I talked to Sebastian, he wrote the book. I don't know anything about them. I was just trying to get somebody to come and get us. So the Coast Guard in New York City heard me, picked me up.

New York City Coast Guard picked me up and patched me through. So they were the first ones to answer my call, my Mayday. They patched me through to Halifax, Halifax Coast Guard. and Halifax Coast Guard broadcast the Mayday broadband, right? And there were other fishing boats out there. There were Canadian trawlers out there. But they couldn't, in fact, I'm trying to remember the name. It's been so many years now, right?

It's almost 30 years. Almost 30 years? 29 years coming up. Yeah, 29 years. But I'm trying to remember. Anyway, one of the boats. I had actually fished on. And it wasn't the Cape Rath.

Anyway, one of the Cape boats out of Lewisburg, Nova Scotia responded. Oh, yeah, we're sinking. That's not my fault. The mic is sinking. Oh, that's my favorite commercial. Have you ever seen that commercial? We're sinking, we're sinking.

It's a, it's a radio operator in front of, doing exactly the same thing as I'm describing to you. And he's got the microphone on, just like he's got his headphones on. We're sinking, we're sinking. And the radio opera says, what are you sinking about? That's good.

Andrea and I cracks us up every time. Well, they're sinking. You know, what are you thinking about? But anyway, so once I got patched through to Halifax, and they sent out their general Mayday, the only vessel. So the Cape, I wasn't the Cape Rath. It was the Cape something. I forget now.

They responded, but they can't turn Broadside to the weather. That's the thing. The weather was so bad at that point. They can't turn broadside to the weather, or they'll... Yeah, they'll go under. So the only vessel that was able to come to our rescue was a tugboat. It was sitting offside the drilling platform of Sable Island. So Sable Island gas drilling platform was not operational yet.

They've been building it. And so, and right now my mind is blank. I can't even see the name of that tug in my mind's eye, but I will in a second. Anyway, so they were the only ones who could respond to us. Why could I obviously know nothing about boats? Why could a tug go out in that type of weather? Because they're built differently. Fishing boats are, remember I said?

Yeah. They sit really high in the water and they're just, like little corks, I just can get smacked around, you know. But those big waves wouldn't do that to a tug? A tug. That's why you see tugs dragging huge barges in the ocean. They're just made to not. And they're really powerful.

They have powerful, powerful, powerful engines. And basically that's for towing capacity, right? They don't need it for this tiny little tug. Yeah. They're not big boats, right? He was the only one who could come to our rescue. he was the only one who responded so he turned in my direction they were doing two knots in that weather and and i was talking to him i can't believe i can't remember his name but there you go i will

shortly i'm slightly discombobulated at the moment um but like i'd be talking to him and he's saying yes my dear he said uh we'll be coming out we'll be coming out We're, you know, we're coming towards you, don't you worry. Like, that's what he called me, me dear. You know, no, sure we're me dear. He was probably a Newfoundlander. We're coming out. He said, but we're jogging only at two.

You know, we're doing only two knots, and I'm like, he said, they're, they's all sick. So he's the only one on the bridge. The whole crew is sick. because they are taking a beating they're taking a frigging beating just to do two knots, right? I guess the cookie had made a bunch of sandwiches

nobody was eating those, right? How long would two knots take them to get to you? It took him a day and a half. Took him about 30 hours, 35 hours to get to us.

And the weather started to ease late on the next day, right? This happened on the 30th of October, right? They call it the Halloween storm too. Yeah, they got a bunch of different names. A bunch of different names for it. But for 24 hours plus. Yeah, he was demon towards us. And you guys are out there?

Yep, at the mercy. Oh, yeah, at the mercy. So my, I mean, so shortly after I called the May Day, I got a call from the office. Your bosses? Yes, sir. Sea watch. So I worked for an independent contractor who contracted to the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, right? They called me and wanted to know, you know, how I was, and that I should be careful.

about anything that I should say over the airways. Did you say, are you fucking kidding me? That's exactly what I said. Word for a word. Because what had happened is that I had talked to a radio station. Just before they called me, a radio station called me. How did a radio? CKBW, don't ask me.

You've never asked. them? Yeah, how they got it. I know the interviewer. His last name is how. Anyway, I know the interviewer. We went to high school together in Germany. Really? Which was really bizarre. But I didn't know that at the time. Anyway, CKBW calls me and asks me how I'm doing. So I have an interview. You've probably never heard that either. That's very candid, I can tell you. They're like, how old are you? And I'm like, I'm 35, but I'm hoping to be 36. It's like, what a stupid question. But they called me and asked me about what was happening, and I told them. And I also told them that the Japanese response had been to downplay the situation. In fact, the Japanese did not want me to call

May Day. They wanted me to get a hold of something. but they didn't want me to call May Day because May Day means money because somebody's got to come in. They may have to pay for it. Isn't that messed up? Oh, they're cheap. Well, I tell you, I've seen a man go overboard and they searched for three and a half hours and that was the end of that. We went back to fishing. I've rescued a person from the deck of a Japanese boat in a helicopter.

who had severe appendicitis, they would have let them die. I called it in. I talked to the doctor at Victoria, and I called the rescue. And I coordinated the rescue. So anyway, I said some not quite flattering things about the Japanese response, and I was as candid as I am with you. I'm as candid as I'm always. That's right.

And so I got fired in that. So, yeah, I would no longer have a job when I got back to land. Yeah, I got fired. And this is what I said. I said, you're actually telling me that if I survive, that I will no longer be working for Sea Watch. And that's correct. And I said, you guys just made a very, very poor decision. and I didn't say anything out that was it right when I got back when I landed at pier 22 there was a scrum of television reporters and camera crew crews and there was a barricade and the whole nine yards right and guess who picked me up in a limo apparently I got my job back I could have just I could have really had a lot of fun with that

but anyway they hired me back again I still had a job imagine that eh you know that you know what happened the Japanese embassy called the Canadian embassy in Ottawa after they heard

the television interview and they said this has to stop the Japanese called the Canadian embassy the Canadian embassy the Canadian embassy called the Department of Fisheries and Oceans in Ottawa and they called

the Department of Fish and Oceans in Halifax, and they called Sea Watch. Said no more. Yeah. Yep, no more interviews. So, you know, it's bad enough that you're going to lose your life in the, you know, the perfect storm,

but you're also going to lose your job if, in fact, you ever do make it back to, you know. You know, I've dwelled on the perfect storm and being right in it. I think everybody gets that it was, something very difficult to talk about. And what happens after that? Like, I know, you know, from the book,

I get that you have a little bit of a cross-country tour talking to some radio stations because I'm assuming everybody would be, you know, in the moment, it would be a very popular thing to talk about. 29 years later Sean Newman comes knocking on your door and opens up things that probably haven't been talked about

in a very long time and I appreciate you sitting down to be very candid and frank and talk about your life and everything else it has been very very enjoyable to say the least but that's good what happens after you come

because A you come back you make it through it in my brain I go I wouldn't be surprised if you were living in Lloydminster with no water to be seen for miles away and just, nah, never doing that again. But here you sit at Port Albarnie, a stone throw from the water again,

you went back and worked on boats again. That's how you met your husband. What was, like, I guess, why did you go back to the water? Why not stay away? You'd just seen the absolute worst. You'd seen a hundred, That's not the worst.

That's not the worst. No. What's the worst? The worst is, the worst is being a refugee and losing your life on the Mediterranean, trying to get to a life. That's the worst. Look at the world. Look what's happening in the world. That's the worst.

People with no whole. hope, families with no food, Syria, Iraq, Mexicans at the border, right? That's the worst. I mean, I didn't know any of that then. So my going back to see was a simple decision that that wouldn't beat me, right? I mean, if I didn't go back to see, then I would have acknowledged that something profound had happened to me and had affected me and broken me. No way.

There's just no way. That's just, that was never, that's just not my DNA, right? I mean, it's true. I faced it. You know, when people ask me, what does the, what did, the weather look like, and this is how I describe it to people. You're standing in front of a 10-meter building, or a 10-story building, right? 10-story building, and you're looking up.

That's the top of your wave, and you're at the bottom. So what do you do? You wait for the boat to come up to the top, and you pray to God that when you come back down again, that you're going to come back up again. So that's what it's like, right? That's what it's like. But that is nothing compared to what people in this world are experiencing right now. I think about climate change and what's happening to our planet and why people are being driven from their homes and murdered. and dying.

And how can I feel that like that was a pinnacle of anything? It's just something I survived. You go, right? You put it behind you. You're alive. You're breathing. You still have a job. Who-hoo!

Right? And the ocean is a, is a, you know, is so unpredictable, macerical, fascinating, terrible, fabulous place. It's so everything. I couldn't give that up. I loved my job. I just loved my job. And I went back to sea for three years until I actually was pregnant with my first child

when I did a documentary for a land and sea on being a fisheries observer. Have you ever seen that? Oh, I've got to send it to you. It's actually pretty good. It's not bad. I do the voiceover myself. Yeah, no.

You send me all that. I'm going to have to take a trip back here and have round two. I know. No, no, I think that we are too focused on our self-importance, on our own experiences as being everything. I don't think they're everything. I think they're part of everything. We're just part of everything.

We're not everything. That's a conceit. I think it's a lie, actually. I think it's a lie when we allow ourselves to be so focused primarily on our own well-being, even our family's well-being, that we refuse to acknowledge that we are part of something much bigger. And it doesn't make me feel small at all. It makes me feel connected.

It makes me feel like I know I haven't done enough. I feel like I haven't done enough. But it just gives me more incentive to do good in the world, to be good, to be true, to make a difference. I just, I feel really strongly that I'm going to make a difference. I don't know how yet. Right, that's that next chapter thing. It's a weird belief to have.

I don't mean weird in the sense of bad or anything. I mean weird, it's a strange feeling to know that you can do more or that you should be doing more or that you can do more. Well, you know, we all have to have a purpose, right? And as I said, your purpose changes, your reason for living and being changes. And so I feel that I've launched my family.

Now it's time to launch the next part of my life. And what is that going to look like? It has to have meaning. It can't be just, oh, I'm just going to Europe, I'm going to tool around. It's going to be, I could do that. right? I've earned it. I feel. I've earned it. But that's not going to fill the void. That's not going to fill the hole. Right? That's not going to put me in the light. I want to be in the light. Well, that's where we're going to leave it. I've really enjoyed this. I hope you enjoyed it too. I hope I haven't been too dug too hard on you.

but I really do appreciate sitting across from you. That's good. Thank you. Hey, thanks for tuning in, guys, to another throwback Thursday. While we're a weekend on holidays, and it has been, maybe not that, I wrote about it on substack, maybe not the quiet holiday. I thought it was going to be to start. We've had not only Casey sick for, I don't know, three, four days now.

Mel got sick Mila got sick Teresa got sick Everybody's getting sick Not this guy this time around But funny story It was July 4th We dropped the kids off

To go have a sleeper over at their aunt and uncles And we get a phone call You know I don't know 9 30 9 o'clock somewhere in there And Casey had started puking All right we'll drive over and pick them up So we had to drive about a half an hour So we went to drive and grab them

And on the way back We get like 10 minutes in the drive and Mel goes, you got to pull over. So I pull over, she starts hacking up on the side of the highway. I got Casey hacking up at the back seat. Meal is sitting beside me and we're looking up. It's July 4th, right? And if you've ever been to the United States on July 4th, I mean, you're missing out.

So we look up, and I don't know if every state does it this way, but one of the things I learned when I first started dating Mel years ago was she lives just a little ways away from a dam on the Mississippi. And so we'd walk to it and go stand on the dam. You know, this is once again like 15 years ago. And it was like 360 fireworks. And I remember that that memory's imprinted on me. As, you know, we were watching it back then.

I was like, wow, there's literally fireworks going off everywhere. Now, I come from Lloyd Minster. And Canada Day is such a letdown, you know. What was it? Montreal canceled their Canada Day because of road construction. And you're like, it's just not even in the same ballpark folks. And so, you know, in Lloyd, you drive to the one. spot and you see fireworks for, you know, is it half an hour? Is it 40 minutes? You get the point.

And then you drive home and that's it. So 15 years ago, going to the dam and standing on it, looking around and just being like, this is insane. It's just fireworks everywhere. Okay, fast forward to I got Mel Puking on the highway and I got Casey Pukin in the backseat and I got me and Mila sitting there and we're looking up and there is 360 fireworks starting, right? This is just as it's getting dark and the fireworks start going off and I'm like well melee you're not going to find much a better show than this and I just kind of chuckle I'm like in the back seat on the side of the highway or up in the sky you know it's kind of like you can't make this up and so melk it's back in the vehicle and we drive for about half an hour and the fireworks never stop like they're just going on

and off uh nonstop you know I'm not sitting here acting like it's every mile there's a new set of fireworks but at the same token every mile you can see fireworks and sometimes they're right alongside the highway sometimes they're big shows probably in some of the little towns were going by but they don't end actually we get home and meal is like dad what does that sound like that's still the fireworks they went off until two in the morning folks

so like it almost sounded like rolling thunder that's how many fireworks were going off anyways that that's that's the story from the first week here of being on holidays now Judy Reeves um you might wonder a lot of people ask you know what's

what's the most memorable podcast. And I picked out the first two for Throwback Thursdays. First, it was Don Cherry, obvious reasons. But this one may surprise a lot of people. I tell people, and I, you know, I don't know if people go back and listen and go, that was a phenomenal episode or not. I have no idea. But for me, this episode really hit me square between the eyes.

And you'll go listen, you go, what was it? And honestly, it's like in the first like six minutes, maybe less, you know, I've listened to it so many times. I'm like, how did she know? Like, how did she know? And it's funny, I don't know about all of you. You know, you sit and listen to me all the time, and you can probably pick up when I'm starting to dig into something or ask a certain question or say something and you can probably hear my brain ticking and going, that doesn't make any sense. Or I need to know more about it. this and I assume that you sitting where you're sitting you've been listening

me so long that you can start to pick up on it well this is for me you know I don't go back and listen to every interview and hear when I start to do that this is the first time somebody is staring at me and seeing something isn't computing and it's funny coming from Judy because you know we saw COVID completely different I mean you're gonna hear part of the interview she she she uh has her own life experience where she survives a perfect storm. And the CBC was a lifeline when she was working out in boats, you know, Russian, Japanese, et cetera, et cetera.

It's a fascinating story. But, you know, like, she's staring at me. And it's so funny to go back and listen to it. Like, if you've ever seen my business card or checked out my social media, never wondered where endlessly curious comes from, just listen. it's this episode. We're sitting there and she's like, you're looking.

And I didn't want to say yes, because it was true. It was like she was singing into my soul. And I've told this story way too many times. And I just don't think the words, maybe they do. Maybe they make complete sense. But I guess I would position it to you. Like, have you ever been just sitting there and you got something on your mind and somebody just can see through whatever you're putting out there?

And you're like, how can they do that? How do it? I don't want to admit it. But yeah, I am looking. And probably the reason I didn't want to admit it is because Judy didn't see COVID the way I saw it. And that was, you know, late summer 2020. And I hadn't even admitted it yet.

You know, like, I mean, sure, I started talking about certain things. But on the podcast, I hadn't. Like, on the podcast, I was, this is almost a full year before I do my first episode on COVID. So, like, I go back and I listen to it. and just like she could see that something wasn't computing. And I was looking. I was. I was trying to make sense of the world.

I was trying to understand how it worked. And this is, you know, a woman who once again I have a ton of time for, but did not see COVID the same way I was seeing it. You know, we, when we met with family out there, we met all outside. We had to wear masks. Nah, maybe we didn't have to wear masks. But we weren't allowed to touch. We weren't allowed to hug.

We weren't, like, and we respected that. I mean, this is so early on, I didn't know what the heck was going on. But I did all these interviews outdoors and spaced and all the things, right? And I was like, but this doesn't make sense. And here's this lady who can just see it through it. And then, you know, picked up on, I wasn't calling myself a journalist. In fairness, I didn't think of myself as a journalist. No, what do I say?

I'm a curious soul or something. And I laugh at myself, you know, just dancing around what it actually is. You're a journalist, man. Just get to it. But, you know, you hadn't developed that part yet. It's such an interesting thing for me to go back and listen to. And I don't know what all of you think. You know, I guess I'd be curious to know what you guys think.

I don't know if this is a good interview. People ask me all the time, which best interview you've ever done? And I point to this one a lot, but it's selfish reasons. And Judy gets it because I'm looking exactly for the courage to do what I do a year later. And she knows it, although she doesn't understand it, because obviously, you know, if she knew I was going to start speaking out about COVID, she probably would have never said that. Right?

It's like this unintended consequence of being direct with me. And it was a year before. I was trying to find how the world worked. and so I was asking and I was trying to piece together things but it would be a full year before I get the courage to finally bring somebody on and then I mean look at where that took us folks

you know so if you you've never listened to this interview you know maybe you can hear that maybe you can't maybe it's just in my own head I don't know it's such a weird thing to try and explain to people I get emotional in this interview not in the actual interview listening to the interview like I can it's just so real

when she goes, you're looking. You're looking for your place. And I'm like, I don't know if I'm, absolutely. But I just want to understand. And I can hear that in myself back then. I can hear how tentative I was to say anything. I was so nervous, you know, to step on any toes. Because what I want to actually ask is, you know, this COVID thing.

What do you think of it? And I probably wouldn't like the answer. and I wasn't confident enough to push back on any of it. So I was just trying to understand things. You know, then she brings up climate change at the end. That's a whole other bottle of wax. And I think, you know, as you go on a podcast, you're trying to find confidence

to just be okay to ask questions, be okay to disagree, be okay to push back. You know, everybody lads on Joe Rogan. The guy is amazing. Guy has done a lot of interesting. interviews. Guy fought. Guy did stand-up comedy, that is.

And I think those those things take time to build. I remember being in the middle of COVID and everybody, why aren't you pushing back? Because I, you know, I just read Socrates. I read Martin Armstrong and told me to read the apology

by Plato, which is the story of Socrates at trial and eventually he's led to death. And I don't know what I thought Socrates was, but Socrates is considered the wisest man in the world back then. And why is he considered wise? Because he knows when he doesn't know something. Like, what a simple thing. Well, there's plenty of times, folks, where I don't know Jack Squat. I'm rambling today. I hope some of this makes sense. This was a fun interview for me to do. It was worth the drive

all the way to the island. It's, I mean, you take all of that out of it. I mean, this lady survived a perfect storm and was probably the last living person to talk to the Andrea Gale, which is what the perfect storm movie is all about, right? It's a pretty wild story, you know? A couple other thoughts I had.

When you're in the pocket, and she's talking about being in the zone or whatever you put it as, and you know I was I was bored the other day so I got all these sick everybody's sick and I'm sitting there

and I'm just bored heck that's the whole point of slowing down a little bit you know I was sitting there like this is what you want it you wanted to just relax for a bit now you're bored

because you're just sitting around doing nothing but you know I'm not saying I want to do this every day but you know so you're sitting around doing nothing and I'm laughing Okay, let's go home and you're at home. What would you do for fun? What would you go do?

I started laughing. I'm like, I go podcast. I'm like, the whole point of July is to just detach a bed and not podcast. And yet, when I podcast, I feel like I'm in the pocket. And in the pocket is such a special place to be. And so here I sit in Minnesota and I'm like, what do you want to do? Well, I've been waiting. You know, I didn't realize these throwback Thursdays

were going to have me rambling for this long. But I've been waiting to get back in front of the mic and ask questions and talk to people. And I guess relive some memories because Judy Reeves is that for me. I also like this thought from her. If you tell a story long enough, it can become fiction. It's an interesting thought.

You know, the story that comes to mind is Ottawa. And I got some work to do there. I've got a bunch of people I'd like to interview that I've been putting off. And I read that. If you tell your story long enough, it can become fiction. And that's exactly what I don't want to happen. So I think there's some work to be done there. And, yeah, I just need to get to it.

And finally, it's when you're successful, you learn to trust yourself. That's a big lesson in life, learning to trust yourself. Yeah, I would agree with that. The more you take leaps of faith and you work through it and little success, you know, big success, those are real confidence building things. And having confidence, I think, is what Judy's talking about a lot. And that is something people can't take away from you. They can try.

But having confidence in who you are and what you can do is a powerful, powerful thing. All right. I've been rambling for almost 15 minutes. Probably be 15 by the time I wrap this up. But I appreciate to, well, you know, everybody tuning in. There's probably a whole bunch there. I've been telling everybody not to text me for the month. But actually, it's for the week because after the first week,

I'm like, okay, I'm going to get the juices running. So if you got some thoughts, fire away. I'm, I mean, I can always just ignore for the, if we're out doing family things. But regardless, if you, if you enjoyed Judy, you didn't enjoy Judy, maybe it wasn't your top list, maybe you'd never listen to it. I'd be curious your thoughts. You know, it's five years ago, roughly, that I did this interview. And parts of it are hard for me to listen. I don't know why I get so emotional about it sitting on this side, not in the actual interview.

It's weird to hear it. younger self, you know, and realize what you were actually looking for. It's a strange feeling, folks. Like really strange. So I guess these throwback Thursdays, there's a multitude of things that I didn't realize it was coming with it. One is I'm actually going back and listening and jotting down notes and then doing the outro or the review of the podcast or some thoughts years later. It's strange to hear myself because there's so many things. that have changed obviously, right? I mean, it's just obvious to all of you,

and to me that, you know, there's been a lot of things change over the course of almost a thousand podcasts. Yeah. I, I mean, and I guess the other thought I have on Throwback Thursdays is I didn't realize how therapeutic the listening and then getting to tell you my thoughts would be, you know? Like, uh, that's true that. That has been an interesting thing for me.

This is why you try new things. You know, the cornerstone forum, we always, you know, we tried something, the first one. And then realized, oh, that isn't working. And I remember it was, I gave everybody, every speaker, I gave two keynote speeches. So one in the morning, one in the afternoon. And my thought had been, they come in with an idea, they listen to everybody else, and then they get to reevaluate and they come out. And I thought maybe they come in negative, and after hearing everybody, it could be positive.

So it was kind of like the morning will be a bit depressing, the afternoon will be a bit uplifting, you know, roughly. And what I realized, real fasting afternoon is preparing two keynote speeches, not one person did it, which means it's almost impossible. That's a very difficult task to ask. And so in the middle of it, you know, what do you do? You got all these people in Lloyd and full house. And you got, I think it was Chuck on stage. For sure, I did it with Chuck. but you know I watched two people get up and start talking and realize neither one of them was going to do it and they both kind of ended the same way I really don't get anything else to say so I grabbed the mic and started taking question I just you know immediate you just okay well we got to adjust we're going to take Q&A from the crowd and that was really really cool well the next time around this year's Cornerstone I thought a lot about that nah we're not going to do the Q&A we're going to we're going to bring in more speakers

We're going to have different roundtables. That idea didn't work. Guess what I'm pointing out is when you try things, you learn things. And this throwback Thursday, one of the unintended things I did not see coming was this. I mean, I didn't realize how much I was going to miss this in the first week. What a weird thing. You know, Cornerstone Forum this year. I told myself I wasn't going to book or think about Cornerstone 2026.

I mean, just go back to the Drew Weatherheaded episode. I'm like, I don't even know I'm going to do it again. What a sad Sally I was. And then I haven't been drinking for, you know, it's over seven months now. And so, you know, like, the reason I bring that up is normally after a big event like that, I'd go have a, even if it was one, maybe it's three.

And then I'd be out of commission, and I'd wake up late, and I'd be groggy, and you kind of get the idea. I'd just be like, ugh. All right, I'll think about this in a week, and I put it off for a week. But not drinking. Although I was tired, I woke up the next morning, probably 7, 38 o'clock. And the first thing I've popped in my head was Cornerstone 26.

I'm like, God, I'll be kidding me. I was going to give this a week. Sunday morning, not even a day after the event, I've already sent an email to WinSport. Like, hey, I would like these dates, can you let me know what you have? They laughed, and then they start, you know, the things started talking. And so I guess, you know, like on holidays, I love the time with family. Don't get me wrong. I love everything about being away and and rechargeing the battery.

But what shocks me is how little time I actually need before I want to be back in the pocket. I want to be back talking to people. I want to be back figuring these things out. I don't want to be back meeting and discussing ideas. And I guess that's why 20 minutes in or close to it, I'm still here. So I appreciate everybody tuning in. I'd love to hear your thoughts. And I would love to hear your suggestions.

If there has been an episode where you gotta, you gotta listen to this, Sean. Because there's been a whole bunch coming. And I haven't decided, honestly, on the next three. I've been, the first two I really wanted to re-release. But the next three, I've got to make a choice here pretty quick because I've got to listen to it. And, you know, I've got to walk through some of the things that stick out to me.

but if there's one or two that you think, like I've had people send in their top 10, and I'm going, wow, that's pretty cool. So if there's something that sticks out to you, shoot me a text or an email, whichever you prefer. And I hope your July is doing well. Thanks for listening. Thanks for this guy rambling on for 20 minutes.

If nobody listens to this, I'm totally cool with it. This is just healthy for me. I needed to get in front of a mic What a wild thing All right folks God bless We'll catch up to you Next week on the next throwback Thursday

I'm looking forward to seeing what we listen to next Next