Shaun Newman Podcast - SNP Archives #16 - Kevin Kromrey

Episode Date: March 17, 2021

Born & raised in Lloydminster, Kevin entered the family business of plants & flowers at a young age. He would go onto own & operate Evergreen Florists with his high school sweetheart. Stories of old brought back to new.  Let me know what you think Text me! 587-217-8500

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Now we've got a new spot. So let's see if you guys can find it, all right. Finally, Gartner Management is a Lloydminster-based company specializing on all types of rental properties to help meet your needs. Whether you're looking at it for a small office or a 6,000 square foot commercial space, give Wade Gartner a call today, 7808, 808, 50, 25. And if you're heading into any of these businesses, make sure you let them know you heard about them on the podcast, right? Now let's get on to that T-Barr-1, Tale of the tape. Born in Lloydminster, Saskatchewan. He married his high school sweetheart, owned and operated the family business of Evergreen Flores, which sold back in 2014.

He's a father, husband, and community pillar. I'm talking about Kevin Cromerie. So buckle up. Here we go. This September 13th, 2020, today I'm joined by Kevin Cromery. I feel like I could butcher that name. Yes. Thanks off for, well, first, thanks for hopping in here and coming and sitting and talking a little bit about your life.

Well, would you like me to start at the beginning? Sure. Born and raised here in Lloydminster? Born in Lloydminster. Like most people in Lloydminster, I was born in Lloydminster, Saskatchewan. That's mostly because the hospitals on a Saskatchewan side with a maternity ward. But in the early years, we were a Saskatchewan resident. My family lived in Saskatchew until 59.

attended school in Lloydminster all the way through high school my parents had a had a bit of a love for gardening and in 1950 well coming back from the war my father was a bulk fuel agent in Lloydminster

and so did your father go to war then yes he did but he never got sent overseas he was in the army for like three years He had flat feet, which kept him on the safe side of the Pacific Atlantic. What is flat feet? I don't know, but apparently if you have them, you can't march. Really?

Really. You can't march long distances. So he was stationed just at a training facility? Yeah, in Guelph, Ontario and Regina, Saskatchewan. He never really talked very much about the war, so never. Well, he wasn't involved in anybody, but he was in the Army. I don't know why they would put somebody in the army that can't go fight. I'm sorry, that's out of my realm of expertise.

Well, you were born in 1950. Correct. You're 70 years old. What do you remember in those early years? Like when you look back, what's one of the first memories you go? Like, oh, yeah, I remember whatever. Oh, very early on. I remember my grandparents.

They were, he was a CPR station agent in Lloydminster. I was fascinated with the latest electronics in 1952. It's called The Telegraph, how he could converse with people on it and actually even tell if the other person on the other end was mad. Just by the way, they were clacking on the telegraph. He could tell that through that? Yes, he could tell if they were angry or happy. Something out of the way they hit the keys.

Just the way it sounded? Yeah. Sorry, the listener can't hear where I'm pointing in my air. Morris code, dot, dot, dot, right? Apparently, I guess if you really hit the button hard, it would made it, you can tell just by the tone of the, these are for two telegraph operators that talk back and forth. On a regular basis, so they knew each other. I'm really pissed off today. He's going to hear about this.

Exactly. True, very true. But my first nine years, we lived in the East End of London. minister in what was called VLA holdings they're still there there are three acre parcel starting on 45th avenue and coming out of the war you could apply for a special loan to build a new house so dad did that and bought an acreage and built a new house there so we lived there till 59 that's the house i was born in in in 1959 they wanted they wanted a different acreage that dad wanted to i think he wanted to move to alberto

although I can't remember. And we bought a place in the south end of Lloydminster on the Alberta side. It was called the Johnson Place in our family. But it was actually the Rendell Home, which has now been moved to Weaver Park Museum. It had an interesting yard, big spruce trees, an orchard, flower beds, and a tiny, tiny greenhouse. Smaller than the room were seated in here. And had a lot of flower beds on the property. So, and it was really.

really run down. Literally, it was falling down. So dad decided to build a little bigger one than better just to keep the flower beds in the place up. So he did that in 1960 after we moved there and built a green eye. It wasn't that big, maybe 20 by 50 feet. And they started a lot of plants for their own flower beds, et cetera. And they always seeded extra. So one spring, I think probably the second spring they were operating. They had some some surplus plants sitting in the greenhouse, so they threw a little sign out on the street bedding plants for sale. People drove in and bought them. As soon as that surplus was gone, they took the sign down. So they never found how much the market was or whatever. But after about

three years, they sensed there was a market there. So they added some more greenhouses, very small ones once again, and expanded and started selling plants. So that would be in the 60, 63 era. Yeah, that eventually morphed into a, eventually they moved from that property out west on the highway, and that's wherever green greenhouses was born. It was expanded and built on. When I took the business over in 1971, they had a couple of, a couple of greenhouses, maybe 3,000 square feet each. And with me involved in the business, we eventually expanded that to about an acre, a little over 45, thousand square feet of greenhouse commercial production space grew all kinds of things not just bedding plants we operated year-round we grew cut flowers and grew cut

flowers and point setas and flowering plants somewhere along the way I married my childhood sweetheart and she was a secretary with the school district and we had an opportunity because we were already in the plant business to take over the local florist shops my wife did that with my help and that become evergreen florists. We've operated a couple of one location downtown for, I don't know, 35 years and another one in the Lloyd Mall for a while. And the greenhouse production, a lot of it was aimed at the florist shops

that we owned. So that's how that business expanded. It was an interesting business. It's identical to farming. Things have, things changed in my life. lifetime in that business from just as farming has changed with the advent of computers and fertilizer and mixers and all kinds of things and environmental controls that weren't there in the beginning but we're there in the end it was basically like most industries you have to

keep learning so it was a learning curve I might have went to college for a couple years might have studied I'd have partied a lot too in that time but you know we don't we don't party when we go to college, do we? But, you know, I thought I learned a whole pile in a couple years I was in college, but I found that I soon learned a whole lot more operating a real business in the real world and having to stay abreast of the latest changes, if that makes any sense. Certainly does. So it's safe to say then growing up, you grew up in a flower shop or a greenhouse.

Well, yeah, from nine to from age nine. Onward, yes. What did your parents do before we're at the rail yards? My dad was actually, that was my grandparents who worked for the CPR. And he was a station agent for the CPR. What did your parents do or what did your dad do before he opened Evergreen? He was the, coming out of the war, he was the bulk fuel agent for B. which is British American oil company.

And he worked really hard at that. The dealership wasn't doing very, well, not very well. But dad rolled up his sleeves and headed out to the farming community and solicited a whole pile of business and he got the place turned around. Turned it around so damn good.

After, I guess he did that from 50 on to 59. He built the business up to the point where the BA oil company decided he didn't need quite as much commission because he had all this volume. That wasn't how dad, that wasn't why dad sourced the extra business. It was to put money in his jeans. So he had an opportunity to become the Kodiak petroleum refinery bulk agent, which he did. He moved from the VA. Out west to where Pizza Hut is now in Lloydminster, the old Kodiak refinery site is across the road they're trying to clean it up. It's been a bit of a nightmare, I guess, for them, all the

contamination. It was kind of interesting. On that subject, it was kind of interesting. I grew up in the around the bulk fuel business and of course we made, dad and I made numerous trips across to the Codiac refinery. So, you know, I don't think you can be an eight-year-old kid wanting around the husky refinery now without a hard hat and a whole bunch of safety courses, but it was a different era in 1960. It's over there regularly, watched what went on there. Like, they'd have an oil spill, and they'd just dump more sand on top of it, and other oil spill more sand on top of it, and all kinds of things.

Environmentally contamination went on over there. I could talk for hours on that, but, yeah, that was, there was something there in there that my dad took ill in the early, mid-60s, and then the greenhouse become the focus for the, basically run by my mother. Then in like 1960, 71, I guess, coming out of college, I joined the family business. Expounded it to what it operated as ever greenhouses that people know today.

But they don't know it today because six years ago we sold the property and those greenhouses are long gone. But it was a timely business decision. A, Kevin needed to retire, and B property values were at such that it made sense. Growing up then, did you, is that what you wanted to do? Did you want to be in the greenhouse business? Did you want to be in the flowers and plants?

Or were you interested in something else? No, I wasn't certain if I was interested in it or not. So coming out of grade 12, I took a year off. I worked in the business to see if I liked it or not. And after that, I decided that, I decided that, I did enjoy it. I liked watching the plants grow. I liked making them grow.

If you can, if that's a possibility, sometimes these it is, some days it isn't. But after a year of that, I decided to take a couple years of college. And where did you go to school? Old college.

It was the only, there was only two places you could go. One was old college, and they had an all-encompassing horticultural program. Or I could have went, I was actually registered to go to Chicago. which I may not have survived based on the late nightday news from Chicago these days. But anyway.

We're talking like United States Chicago. Yeah, the United States Chicago. Or Olds. Yeah, or Olds. But the one in the U.S. was actually all just greenhouse, whereas Olds was all encompassing. And I figured out just shortly before it was time to depart that if I was going to be in the greenhouse business, in Lloyd Minster, I'm going to get asked a whole pile of question.

about gardening trees shrubs weeds all of that not just specifically how to manage a greenhouse that was why I chose holds for the all-encompassing knowledge there is more encompassing let's go it that way so what is the average person not understand about plants like I mean or like I know that's a deep long question but that you ran that business for a long time. 46 years. And you said over 46 years, it constantly involved, constantly changed. Maybe what's one of the best lessons when you look back at it?

Like, when I first came out of college, I thought I had this figured out. And then after 10 years, 20 years, whatever it is, you learned that was not what they teach. Or, you know, I don't know, that's one of the things that makes plants thrive. Hmm. Most of it, no, most of the knowledge was from the, from the college years, it was very valid. It's just that more knowledge become available. A quick example. We, greenhousees always run their daytime temperature warm because that emulates the sun. It's warm, right? And nighttime temperature's cooler because, hello, sun's gone. And that has a certain influence on plant growth. and so that was always the way greenhouses were run. Somebody along the way figured that some crops respond to the direct opposite. Warm nights, cool days, and they thought that it shortens the plant growth. So for certain ornamentals, such as a potted flowering plant, chrysanthemum,

one of your problems was controlling the height of the plant. By flipping that temperature, you could be shrunk back down. So, I mean, that knowledge wasn't there in 1971, but it was there in 1980. It just, if you, if you didn't stay abreast of that kind of change in the industry, you'd be, well, left behind. And that industry is constantly involving? Yes. More so, I'd say more so in the last, well, whenever computers were invented and become commonplace in business. Because before that, we, nobody could look at all the environment.

environmental controls required for a greenhouse. I mean, you could try, but you didn't win because there's so many. You've got light, heat, temperature, humidity, fertilizer, amount of fertilizer, blah, blah, blah. Well, computers can, with the right sensors, can track all of that. So now, I mean, we were fertilizing a tomato crop. We would apply a certain amount of fertilizer based on, you know, what past things revealed the crop needed, knowing full while that if we get three weeks of cloudy weather that we've over fertilized, or if we get three weeks of bright sunshine, we've under fertilized.

Now computers can keep track of all of that. And we used to grow, most of our plants used to be growing in a substrata called dirt. It's fairly common. It's everywhere. However, artificial growth media has taken over for a lot of the crops. and without the clay particles in there, am I getting too technical? Without the clay particles in there

to absorb the fertilizer and hold it for future days ahead, we can now swap that fertilizer out almost instantly with hydro. We're talking hydroponics, which is quite an industry in itself. It's been spawned by, no, we won't go there. Hydroponics, I mean,

we can, now with computers, we can change that fertility level. based on what's happening instantaneously. If the sun goes under a cloud, in 10 minutes we can change the fertility level to the plant. So that's cutting edge technology. That is second by second essentially dialing in to make sure of any plant you get the best,

dialed into like the smallest. There's always a restriction to plant growth. Like if you're trying to maximize what a plant can, There's always a restriction. It could be daylight. It could be this. It could be that. And to try and control the environment to the level that you're maximizing that plant growth is most difficult.

But computers have sure helped us. Now we can control that environment much more specifically for total growth enhancement of the plant. Just the way life is. I assume that's a huge investment on a greenhouse as part to implement sensors, computers, to track everything, would that be a giant expanse? Or is it not that bad? I don't think it's not, it's not that bad. We were never, just so you're clear,

I mean, my greenhouse was never cutting-edge technology to the level because we were doing the same thing in the last few years. But I was using that as an example of how the industry has changed. Okay, okay. But the cost of it is, like, most things in business. If there's no payback, you don't do it. So the cost of those computers is obviously paying back by increased yields. That's just that simple. What was one of maybe your favorite plants to work with? Is there something that sticks out

that was just fun to play around with or had some intriguing characteristics that as a young guy, you saw it do what it does, and you're like, man, that's pretty cool. Yeah. We got into point set of production, which is, you know, there's a lot of parameters there. They're achieved by flowering initiation by day length. But once again, trying to maximize the, making each variety of them perform to its best ability. It was a challenge that I enjoyed. We won a lot of ones.

We lost a lot of battles, too. but we did have what I would consider an outstanding product. I didn't realize, I did not actually realize how good our operation was until actually we quit. And we had a couple salesmen that travel all across Western Canada drop in and wish us the best in our retirement. And they said, you know, we travel greenhouses from Winnipeg to Vancouver.

And he said, you were in the top three as far as doing things right within the industry for what we were doing. But it made me feel pretty damn good. Almost made me want to start building more greenhouses and getting back into the business. Have you enjoyed retirement? Yeah, I have.

The good parts of the greenhouse business, growing the plants, watching them grow. And when everything goes right, you feel like a winner. The bad thing was dealing with the economics of the business. you can grow all of this stuff, but if the weather doesn't contribute... I'm talking a bedding plant crop, but you spend six, eight months growing that crop, ready to market it. And then if Lloyd Minster gets dumped with snow on the 15th of May, and the weather stays cold until the first of June, by now people are up at the lake, and they aren't planting the flowers in the yard that they normally plant,

because they're just pissed at the weather. That influences your bottom line. It also influences your quality of products, which we took to the nth degree. That's why people miss us so much in Lloyd, and I know they do, because I get told in the street, God, we miss you people. We didn't just grow, bending plants. We didn't just grow one crop of, say, a particular item. Call it white elizum, it's an important plant.

We didn't grow it once. We didn't grow it twice. We didn't grow it three times. We grew it seven times. So the crop was spaced out. So my objective was always if you walk into my place on the 10th of May to buy white elizum, it's going to look like that. If you come in on the 7th of June, it's going to look like that. Whereas if you only plant it once, by the time you get to the 7th June, it's looking shabby and overgrown and looks like it belongs in the dumpster.

So that was the kind of care that we put into the product. And it was fun developing all of those programs that wouldn't make that possible. I'm not going to lie I'm not going to lie in my brain I went you were talking about different things that can impact the greenhouses

for the bad and I was going it's in a greenhouse what could really go on in the other you know like you're controlling the environment exactly

but you can't control what happens externally no especially in this place well years ago Lloydminster had a water shortage when we weren't all the way to the river we're at Sandy Beach

and all of a sudden And let me guess, 5th of May, the city come out with no more watering of gardens because we got too short of water. A couple hundred thousand dollars worth of product went to the dump that year because our sales were that long because of that decree. They could have held off until about the third week of May, in which case we just moved that product. But no. But that's, I mean, that's economic things. There's always something. There's, you know, I guess today it's COVID.

So there's a one. hot or shortage, there's COVID. There's always something. The external factors are coming in when you're in business. So as a businessman, how did you prepare or try and alleviate some of the pressures of things out of your control? I assume after the first couple of times you talk about a couple hundred thousand dollars worth of product like that had to stung. Yes. What did you try and do after that? Well, you try and balance your inventory for the next year. Are people going to be gardening back? I mean, I could tell you of numerous things that we tried, but basically, Basically, it almost comes down to a,

but most of put a dartboard on the wall. Because you never know what's going to happen. You have to have a positive attitude and go forward. Sitting where you're sitting right now, though. If you went back to your 20-ish self when you're getting in, 22-year-old self, whatever the number was, when you're starting out, what would you tell yourself?

Like, listen, kid, there's a couple of lessons I've learned along the way that are going to help you. I can't really think of one. As I look back, it depends what you want in life. If I look back and if I was looking to make money, I would not have made that my career choice, the greenhouse business. The oil patch would be much more lucrative. But there's people with the downturn of oil and stuff that would certainly argue that.

Matter of fact, they'd shoot you, shoot me for even saying it. But for a lot of years, if you hit the right patch of the OPEC or the right stretch, there was a lot of money to be made in the oil field. Yes. Currently. I didn't envy them. It's just that, you know, if you asked me to look back, and I sometimes look back, did I make the right career choice?

I think I did. I mean, I've enjoyed what I've done all my life. So that has got to be a bonus round. I think everybody looks for that growing up, right? If that's one lesson, you know, you get in a job you don't love. Makes every day pretty miserable. Well, the greenhouse business especially, considering Lloyd Minster's climate, wasn't a bad place to work, you know, in January.

You're in your shirt sleeves. The sun's beating through the roof. You're surrounded by green plants. It's almost like a holiday. But, yeah. See, there's nothing, you know, like, don't, well, I don't know. honestly you're the guy with the wisdom so I sit across you and go surely you would have you know follow what you you want to do then

because obviously you enjoyed plants and you go back to yourself and listen you're making the right career if you want something you enjoy now if you want to go make a boatload of money maybe go do X yes well to me to me I got way more satisfaction if we had a good year and there was a decent bottom line for a change I mean that's a feather in your cap you should be happy. I was always more happy if the plants that I was growing looked good and were good. Make any sense? That's your your product. Yes. Your effort. And if I if it was a crop that we'd put a lot of work into and at the 11th hour something happened to it and they went downhill,

that's depressing. That's more depressing than not making money. What would happen at the 11th hour to make a product go the opposite way? Oh. We got nothing but time. That's right. Point set of crop in the 11th hour. You grow them from July to early December. You're going to start marketing them.

If the planets align themselves correctly, you can get a root rot in there, Pythium, rhizactonia, even though you've treated for it. It's caused by overwatering. So if you got the crop well watered and then it goes cloudy for a few days and they sit in too much too moist to soil, yeah, diseases can happen. It's no different than farming. That hail storm can come at any time. What does your brain do with that?

Like you've done absolutely everything in your possible means to make sure you have the great, this can be a great year. We're having a good year. And then, like you say, the planet's alive. and all of a sudden you got some disease breakout and you're like man well I guess it's the proverbial you know what hits the fan it's something you can't control you just roll with a punch of philosophical attitude I'm not sure I don't know I find it very interesting it's just you know one of the things grew up as a farm kit

watched dad and then you know the girl from Helmand right so got to watch watch all the different farmers, go about their daily routine and whatever else. I love farming. Farming is, I think, from the outside looking end, is like, it's a great lifestyle. You work really hard for a short period of time, and you've got to sit there and do some things right and hope things go right and whatever, and you're out in the field and there's nothing better than being out in the field and the people are amazing. But at the end of the day, you're gambling every year.

Yes, you're right. I mean, you've already talked about. We live in an area where snow, rain, not enough rain, too much rain. I mean, let's just go down the list of possible outcomes. Right. And I go, man, that'd be stressful. I can't imagine. Like, I was just, I was talking to one of them this morning before I came here.

And when you're a young guy and you don't have the weight of responsibility of call it, kids is a big one or house loan. or bills or whatever, you know, you can get by, by, oh, we had thought the greatest year, but that's okay, well, you know, we won't do this. But as soon as you have kids and people look after and that stress coming on you, yes. Everybody knows that stress. That stress is an uncomfortable thing to get used to.

You know, it's funny you should bring up the farming community because having, people don't perceive greenhouse operators of farmers, but we're actually intensive farmers, extremely intense on the amount of dollars reproduce out of a square foot whereas farmers are talking in acres right? But I have a lot of family and friends in the farming industry

and I've still got mobbed a couple times because I would say to them, you farmers, I don't think you're very smart. Look at me well, anybody that tries to grow plants and you can't control the temperature and you can't control when they get

water and you can't control the a large degree the amount of fertilizer. I just don't think that's smart. I have been almost mobbed over that statement, but it's meant tongue and cheek because that's the difference between greenhouses and outdoor farming. Well, I mean, the greenhouse on the side,

I already said it once, I think, right? You can control 96%. You said everything, but you were wrong. Right. I was wrong. I was thinking, in my brain, I go, you can control everything. I don't see why there would be a fluctuation, but the outside world, well, we've, I mean, we're going through it right now.

Like, what do you think of this COVID-19 pandemic in your 70 years? Is there anything that even remotely comes close to this? Not. Nothing. It's totally unexpected. I mean, if you want to talk the financial impact of COVID, I'm retired, so I have some, a few little investments here and there. what I considered to be a safe investment,

totally safe, they would call it blue chip, whatever the term is. Yeah, well, they drops very significantly. Fortunately, they've recovered a little bit, but when COVID hit, like nobody saw that coming. Absolutely not. It's not like a U.S. presidential election where you can say, oh, there's going to be a good guy or a bad guy. But no, nobody saw COVID coming.

Nobody saw the oil price dropping the way it just did. the recent COVID times either. It's a one in a lifetime event. I hope never to see another one in my lifetime. I'd like to look back, archival footage, Lloydminster, have that in behind me. It's like, oh yeah, we had a hiccup there in the year 2000. That we got over it.

This seems more intense to me than that. It feels pretty intense, doesn't it? It does. You live through the age? The 80s that I hear were with interest rates and everything else. And oddly enough, that was orchestrated by the same guy's name as the present prime minister. You must know who I'm talking about. It's a father and son team, it seems like, on the Western economy to kick us down.

Why do you think they want that? Oh, I'm not sure what any government wants anymore because they seem to be doing the stupidest things. Racial equality and yet everything, every move they make is creating wider gaps. Am I getting off on a tangent here? I'm sorry, but it's just wrong. As I told you at the start of this, there's no wrong here. This is just a conversation. Now, it's centered around your story, your life.

life, but to talk about what's going on right now, I say that one of the reasons I enjoy doing this so much is perspective. Seventy years gives you a pretty good perspective. Now, it can give you some things that you look at differently than other people. Sure, that's life. That's everybody's bubble. And Lloyd, we got, you know, 30,000 people who probably look at lots of things differently. But around this area in particular, when it comes to Trudeau, and when it comes to his father, there are very few people who don't say exactly what you just said. Yeah, I've noticed that.

I'm not jumping on the bandwagon because it's popular. I'm jumping on the bandwagon because it's right. That makes any sense. Yeah, as a younger guy, I, well, once again, grown up in this area and hearing the stories and seeing what's going on right now, I completely get that sentiment. And if you watch Mr. Justin on any time he gets asked a difficult question, leaders should have an answer for it.

At least, listen, this is more complex. I think I normally can get on board with, listen, it's more complex than just what you're asking and at least have some talking points. But anytime you give him a tough question, just an inkling of a tough question, man, it is. He is the worst thing ever to watch. It is terrible. And that's a guy that's elected. And the thing that my brain struggles with is it isn't like now he's at like 10 people want him back in. He's still possibly our leader for the next four years if they had called an election tomorrow.

I suspect he might be. To me, he probably should get elected based on the number of votes he's tried to buy with all of these programs. he doesn't seem to have the economic sense that somebody's going to be paying for these down the road and unfortunately it's my grandkids it's uh that's just simple you can't take the country as far as debt as he has so why then oh you're ringing so why then one of the things i've struggled with is why is it i'm not trying to kill this thing It's basketball scores. I'll be okay with them.

Why then is it that someone, someone that you want to lead the country isn't trying to do that? Or is politics so far removed from issues now that even if you got in to be the prime minister, you can't change things for common sense initiatives to help the country help things get better. I would be commenting on something that I really

shouldn't because I don't have the depth of knowledge on it but I will say this. Great many of our politicians lose common sense when they get into the House of Commons or the ML legislature. And it must be the bureaucracy they face. I'm not getting down on the individuals. It just seems to me that they somehow lose common sense.

Growing up, were you always, was your family into politics or is that something that at a certain age or maybe when you took over the business or was there a certain point? Do you remember where you're like started really paying attention to it? Probably mid-70s. I did start paying attention. And quite frankly, they annoyed me so much I almost quit paying attention for a few years because it was just so frustrating to watch the national. news it was depressing so but people don't know I have trouble talking to people not you in particular but they seem to lack common sense I could tell you a real

quick story sure I was driving with my nephew to Edmonton I'm I'd be 30 years old and he'd be about 21 and we got took we got on the subject of the deficit it took me Almost halfway to Edmonton explained to him the deficit. He said, well, it was just on the news, the deficit's down. I said, no, the deficit's not down. The deficit is smaller than last year projected. I said, it doesn't mean the deficit's down. The deficit is the total amount of money that our government owes.

And I said, in 1971, when I married my wife, we were saving for a color TV instead of a black and white. and we saved. And I think our federal deficit at that time was something like $340 per Canadian. It was some number. I can't remember it. But I said numerous times to the wife, why don't we just roll up our sleeves and we'll cut the steak out on a Saturday night

and we'll have weaners. And in a year we could pay that deficit off. And it'll be gone forever. And that was a very doable thing to take. to roll up our sleeves, each Canadian, and in one year we pay off the deficit. I said, in the interim, the government has spent money. Basically, they're spending money as if it was a personal visa card without ever worrying about paying it back. And I said, now that visa card debt is so high that there's no way on God's Green Earth that I could roll out my sleeves and pay it off in a year.

It's a snowball effect. and that's from the 1980, I'm referring to the conversation took place. Well, that snowball's been going downhill and getting bigger and bigger and bigger. Picking up steam. And picking up steam as we go. Once in a while you have a politician that will step up to the plate and do something. You may not remember Peter Laheed, but he was our premier in Alberta. Bud Miller, who our park in Lloydminster is named after, was the MLA under Peter Laude.

They put together what I thought was an awesome program. It's called the Heritage Savings Trust Fund. It was putting Alberta's money, some of their oil revenue, aside for a rainy day. You know, and with COVID, it's raining outside. It's downpouring outside. It's downpouring. But in the interim governments that followed that looked after the Alberta Heritage Trust Fund, like that word trust, they decided that, you know,

It was supposed to be invested in stocks, bonds, whatever, something you could turn to cash, right? Well, they decided they'd invested in Albertan's future. So they built hospitals with it. They built Bud Miller Park with it. They built numerous parks and sports facilities. I'm not privy to all what they did with it. But the bottom line is none of those things can be turned to cash for our COVID-

rainy day. You're not going to sell a hospital. You're not going to sell a park. So that's how politicians can warp the intent of an original idea. So you think I'm cynical?

I am when it comes to politics. I just think it's listen, I don't, I haven't ran a business for 40 some years, right? So I'm just a young guy, the young kids, who didn't pay attention to politics until the first time he gets elected.

And it just kind of picked your head up because when things are good, just kind of go along with the, like you talk earlier that they annoyed you, so you pretty much turn it off. I tell you right now, I am frigging annoyed. It's hard to watch. Like, it's hard for me in a group of five guys to turn it on and not watch or not turn it off in the first 30 seconds because it doesn't matter what side we're talking about. They both sound like idiots.

We can't come to sense on any matter, and that's what's running our country. And the only thing it gives me a little bit of solace is as bad as things are, they could go to a hell of a lot worse. And, like, we're pretty, you know, I get to sit and talk with. People who have been through some real things go back to the 30s and 40s and stuff like that and hear them talk about it. And, well, I'm still sitting here. Still got food on the table.

Right. shelter over the head but I don't fully understand it actually it's become almost so complex it's hard for the brain to get around it's hard to make sense of what's going on and why you know Kevin doesn't run for politics

changed around in two years and we're on the up and up and moving that way right do the wiener thing instead of stakes way we go right yeah well I don't think the general public has as the I wouldn't say expertise

but the desire. I just don't think that I'm probably getting lynched leaving the building here if the general public is out there. But my perception is that people don't understand. They don't understand that deficit. They don't understand the direction we're heading. But they do understand is that I got $1,000 a month for COVID,

or I got this, I got that, I got this. And, but, there is no I got that those funds have come from somebody somebody's working to pay taxes to pay those funds our friend Justin has no money well I shouldn't say that he's probably got quite a bit that we don't know about but he's got no money of his own that's helping us it's he's using the debt of the country and I don't think when you get a thousand dollars COVID check you say yourself who well this is going to help me And a lot of people need that help.

I'm not knocking it. But I don't think they have the attitude about this helping me, but somebody's going to have to pay this back. It's certainly not going to be me. It's a cynical approach, but I have trouble wrapping my head around it. I know it's dire times.

I know we need, people need help. But it just seems, so many things seem wrong in what's going on out there. Let's talk about some happy times then. Oh, happy times, his family, grandkids, holidays with the family. How about your wife? You said your high school or childhood sweetheart. I thought we were going to talk about happy times.

Ban this broadcast. She is my happy time. She's been with me for 49 years. We do everything together. We travel together. I couldn't imagine life without her. And she looks after me to the nth degree. She's always concerned about me.

Yeah. No, she is the love of my life. But I never tell her that. He just did. Yeah, yes. Oh, I do tell her that once in a while. She only remembers the nasty little digs I give her. It's just my sense of humor.

Well, 49 years is damn impressive. say so myself. And with any relationship, there's highs and lows. What advice could you give somebody who's entering into your first year? Their first year, but that's a long time ago.

I don't remember that. And we just concentrate on being a couple, getting along together. And hopefully you were married for the right reason in the first place. And that is that you truly love each other and you want to be together. this divorce thing

seemed to be a relatively new phenomenon in my lifetime. You know, apparently forever, just doesn't seem to last forever anymore. Yeah, it's not, 49 years is a long time, and there's lots of people that have been married for that length or, you know,

that kind of track record where they've been together for a long time and things are happy and great and grant. but there is an increasing number of people who get divorced and not just once but multiple times and it's almost looked at I mean you know I'll say this as it's good for somebody who puts themselves in a bad situation and need to get out of it I think we can all agree with that like you get an abusive relationship or what have you substance abuse maybe something where it's just unhealthy I think it's you know I think that's understandable I never really thought about that until probably late 70s.

My wife and I always go to our kids' parent-teacher interviews together, which is kind of unusual, but we're both independently working so we can adjust our schedule. One of the teachers in one of the primary grades said to us as we walk in, well, this is refreshing. Like what? It's refreshing. A husband and wife coming. to the parent-teacher interviews.

Oh, okay, well, let's go on with the interview. I want to find out how that child of mine has been misbehaving. Let's get to meat and bones of this thing because I got work to do. But then I quizzed the kid that's after school when we got home. I said, how many kids in your classroom are from single-parent families? You know, that was the majority? Matter of fact, there was only... In the 70s, it was.

There was only about three kids in that room that had two parents. Holy crap, society has evolved or de-evolved, however you want to look at it. Changed. Changed, yeah. And I don't think that bodes well for society. We're really getting off on a tangent here, but I mean, to me, the family unit is the building block of society. That's without that family unit, we don't have much. Well, parents, I was learning about this with the wife last night, just once again,

men and women have different perspectives on things and offer different things to any child. Yes. And to remove one completely, well, that is a big chunk of what goes on in a kid's life. I can speak from having, you know, I have friends who their parents have split up and whatever and just as healthy as me and no issues. But in overall, coming from a family that's stuck together and are still together and parents are still together, it's healthy to have both perspectives there at all times to enlighten you and instruct you and keep you on the straight and narrow so to speak.

Yes. This comment goes back to almost politics, but within the educational system. I'm losing my train of thought here. It's not that hard. You were talking, I was trying to remember, I lost it. It'll come back in a minute. How about I know what it was now

Oh perfect You just needed me to say two words That's right When my kids were in high school They come home Can't remember if it was the son or the daughter And we were talking about economics And course we've been running a business

And you know Bottom line is important And being financially stable is important And this was a life course In the high school by the way In the grade 10 maybe And their teacher had told them never worry about debt because in your entire lifetime ahead of you you will always be in

debt holy that that got my dander up because you know our generation was yeah we want a house yeah we want a car yeah we want to pay for that car as quick as we can yeah we want to pay that house off as quick as we can uh it says 20 years let's see we can get her done in 12 or 15 oh circumstance conspired for it's going to be 23 but we're all of those decisions are still based on getting that debt paid off. Gone. Gone. So that we can start saving for, well, our retirement.

To have somebody in the public school system teaching the exact opposite of that attitude really rankled me. I might have wrote some letters. Not sure they did any good. I'm not going to throw anyone under the bus, and I'll move us forward to this time. and I just heard the I've heard different things and I can't my wife's a school teacher right

so take this to the grain of salt this is not coming from her this is coming from other people that I've heard this and I try and limit her exposure on what I talk about but I've been told that they're encouraging kids

to get Facebook and Twitter and expose them to that world so that they can better understand it yet the statistics show the earlier you put a kid in the world of Facebook and all these different technologies suicide rates go up and bad things go up yes right in my mind you want to lower that back down we we want kids to be healthy and happy and not worry about i mean we're talking tech uh tech things but like

comments and likes and shares and what some guy on the other side of the planet thinks about this and that like let them be kids let them worry about what's right in front of us and around us yes to me that's uh i watched the grandkids in the social media and and fortunately my grandkids are let's say reasonably well behaved on that front but to me what what that internet and all the things that you just mentioned is taking away is the personal one-on-one line I have contact with other human beings. And you can, it's a different media. I'm too old to absorb it,

but you can post things on the internet that you would never say to a crowded room of 300 people. A crowd of 10 people. Right. The interaction there is totally different when you're, I wouldn't say anonymous, but you're kind of anonymous. You're damn close.

You're protected. One, you're. Well, and you think that stuff now is influencing our world. Yes. I mean, when I was in great school, if you said something obnoxious to somebody, you were probably going to get pummeled. Well, now they banned pummelings on it's like, it's just weird. Speaking of school, did you grow up in the days of the strap and things like that?

Or was that already on its way out? Nobody plead the fifth here? You're saying I never got in trouble? Actually, I was in never, we don't even want to go down this road. But yes, the strap was very valid. You had the strap used on you then? Yes. I'm assuming you, did you learn your lesson after you got the strap?

Not so much about the strap lesson. I learned the lesson to never go home and tell your parents you got the strap. Wow. Because that beating was worse than the strap. Not that my parents beat me, but. Yeah. In everybody's defense, including the principal parents, it was well-deserved because I was a bit of a badass at times.

A little bit of a shit-disturber. Yeah, you might say that. I remember meeting my grade 8's teacher about five years after I was out of school. And we had a little conversation. And I said, yeah, those were the days. Yeah, well, he said actually, you know, he said actually once you get out of school, give you a couple of years in the world, I find a lot of my students have actually turned

into human beings. Well, it's just... In defense of teachers, which I rarely do, but our kids go to Kitts Scotty School, so I can only comment our grandkids are referring to. It's a different school atmosphere than when we were in school. And it's all good. I will say that. I remember one was picking the grandkids up from school,

so I parked across from where the buses look. And this gray-haired gentleman or come out with my grandkid, walked past the buses to this crosswalk, walked him across, and brought him down to my vehicle. I got him gone to the sidewalk, so he's on the right side of the street, so now he can come to my vehicle and get the passenger's door. Light goes on. Carter got in the truck and I said,

Who is that? That was the principal. Yeah, he won't let us cross the street and he comes out and supervises the loading of the buses each and every day. Oh, my crap. Like, I remember being escorted off the school grounds by the principal, but it was different circumstances,

different time. I just think that's awesome that the teachers are so in tune with the students. Whereas, back in our area, It was more, we're here to teach you, and we're out of here at four o'clock. It's, yeah, it's different for the good. You know, you mentioned before we started this that you're involved with multiple groups in town. You've done a pile of volunteering in your lifetime.

What was it about getting involved with these different groups that attracted you? It sounds like you were a very busy man. Well, there's been a lot of busier volunteers because actually my business kept us busy, so busy that there was limited time to volunteer, but I did be. Myself, I ended up being a member of the Alks Club. Still him, I've been a treasurer there for, oh, God, 25 years.

Past Exalted Really, the Alks Lodge. And I guess we had this conversation when I did an Alks meeting, why you joined the Alks. Some joined for the fellowship, some joined because, well, we've been known to play some cards once in a while and maybe have a refreshing beverage, but fellowship was a big one. And mine was helping my community. Because over the years, the Elks have helped the Hospital Foundation. We still do scholarships to do grade 12 graduating students in Lloyd Minster.

We've done, we've just done numerous things over the years with our limited members. membership. But to me, that's why I joined the Elks Club. Rotary club I joined for the same reason. I was invited into Rotary and became a past president there, worked hard at various fundraising items that are still in play today, some of the ones we started. And once again, community involvement. If you look at what the Rotary Club does in Ludminster and throughout the world, it's horrendous. And those ones are, the Alks that are diminishing membership makes it harder for us to do many major projects anymore. Rotary Club is somewhat smaller, but still going strong.

And then because I was retired, somebody come to me and said, why don't you come up and help us out at the Lloyd Exhibitions. So I volunteered to help them basically in the beginning, selling 50-50s and just volunteering a little bit up there. Next thing, you know, I guess I'm always interested in the management of a place, so I ended up being on the board and somewhere. along the way they made me president 18 months ago. I got six months left so I'm excited. I'm excited for those six months to get by especially with COVID. But once again,

that organization also does tremendous things for our community and for our whole area. So it's a way of paying back the community for being a good place for me to live and raise my family. Speaking of Lloyd, Mr. in particular, and you talk about being a good place to raise your family and have a business and that kind of thing, what's maybe some of the biggest changes you've seen over time? I know the growth that everybody talks about how big Lloyd has got from when, you know, it was a little fledgling city of, you know, 7,000 people, that kind of thing. What are some other things that stick out to you? for the good or bad that Lloyd has seen change over time. Well, I think backing up to the 1950s, I can remember a conversation at the dining room table, in 1957, mom and dad were talking. There was a stranger on the street downtown

when I was helping for groceries. We asked around, nobody knew who that stranger was. That's how small Lloydminster was in the early 50s. Everybody knew everybody. but then Lloyd started to grow and growth is good I think Lloyd Minster is very very fortunate that we were situated where we are

in between Edmonton and Saskatoon there's a need for a for a hub yeah you know whether industrial medical educational like Lake Lancaulte there's just a need for a hub

to be located here and I think Lloyd Minster's growing and I think it's growing well we may have had a few building spurts and hiccups along the way or whatever but overall i think lloydminster is a strong vibrant community i think loyminster will continue to be a strong vibrant community did you ever get used to the wind oh you're talking to a guy that used to live in polly greenhouses with the wind flapping the polly and oh i never get used to the wind how about uh you You know, growing up, different people have mentors or people that teach them things.

Is there any mentor that sticks out to you in your lifetime that taught you some valuable lessons along your way? Not one specific one, but in the Rotary Club, there was a lot of, you know, successful businessman. And just to be associated with them, I think helped me tremendously. just to get the right perspective on the world. Is there anything left on your bucket list that you want to go do? You know, one of the nice things about getting older is you start getting forgetful. There's a set of falls in the middle of South America. I think it's the highest falls in the world.

I want to go visit that. That's about the only one left on my bucket list. Minor buckets or little pale falls would be, I've never been overseas to Europe. We'd like to do that. As a matter of fact, we were about to do that this year. We've holidayed everywhere down south for the Caribbean, you name a place. I've probably been there.

But we've never been overseas, and I would like to go over there because I'd like to see some of the history. I mean, if you look at locally, I was a young pup when we built the Dr. Cook nursing home. I was midlife when they tore it down. Like 30 years later, we're tearing down. buildings, you know, over there, they're 300 years old and they're still using them. I'd like to see that. I see a little bit of that in the Caribbean, but Cuba and Havana especially, there's some very, very old buildings there, but just the history.

I'll give you one more and then I'll let you get on with your day. Over your lifetime, has there been an event that sticks out to you, whether you're talking, you know, some of the big ones are Man on the Moon, JFK, sports-wise, maybe Muhammad Ali, or, you know, you're mentioning basketball scores, maybe something along that lines. I don't know. Is there something that, you know, in your lifetime that sticks out

that was a world event, and you're like, holy man, or stopped in your tracks, or you can remember where you were sitting at the moment it happened? Well, there's been a couple, number one, my marriage. Not that that's a traumatic experience, but that was an important event in my life. I also remember, it's intriguing how people can remember where they were when they heard the fact that JFK was shot. I know exactly where I was. I know exactly who told it to me.

There's lots of your things from that date that I certainly wouldn't remember, but I remember that. I think I haven't been a big sports fan. I think 9-1-1. Really, I wouldn't say, moved me. Well, they did move me. We lost a lot of people in it. But it brought home to me the perspective of the world and all the different viewpoints.

And it brought into question, I did some reading. You know, the U.S. policy. You wonder why we hear. annoy people in the world but i mean with one stroke of a pen the u.s aid can can make or break or kill hundreds of thousands of people it's from our perspective that's it's all good what goes on but some of the policies they implement maybe if you're over there and you saw the effects of them not so good this 9-1-1 terrorist act uh the fact that it's just was on the news the other night but i did watch that i watched it live and uh

It brought home to me the polarization throughout the world that we face today. And it doesn't give me any solutions for it, but it made me painfully aware of it. That you can have all that strife. The Middle East, when I was in high school, it was, what was it called, Syria? I forget. It was like, okay, you pastor geography lesson, good for you. And then over the years, all these little other countries got chopped off, broke up, cut part and one day I was like this seems like a lot of strife over there so I letting got the globe and I took a little piece of paper and I drew it around that area where

all the disturbances are going on and I brought it over and you know it would fit in the bottom south corner of Alberta like geographically and you get all that hatred and religious zealots way whatever is going on over there to try and understand that I think was a 9-1-1 sort of pivotal to open my eyes to look around and see what's really going on here. And I haven't quite figured it out yet. It's a tough one. It's very complex. Well, I appreciate you coming in and sitting down with me and sharing a bit about your life and some of your viewpoints.

I think it's been thoroughly enjoyable. Well, I wasn't sure what I was getting into. I'm not sure what I've been into by the LA. It's been fun. Awesome. Well, thanks again. Hey, bad. Hey, folks.

Thanks for joining us today. If you just stumbled on the show, please click subscribe. Then, scroll to the bottom and rate and leave a review. I promise it helps. Remember, every Monday and Wednesday, we will have a new guest sitting down to share their story. The Sean Newman podcast is available for free on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, and wherever else you get your podcast fix. Until next time. Hey, Keeners.

Thanks for tuning in today. Shout out today to Devin from Wainwright. He said, just listen to Vance. He's talking about Vance Crow. That's back on episode 152. He said, really enjoyed it. It flew by, and it seemed like you were just getting into it. That is very true.

Vance Crow and me only had an hour, which doesn't, it seems like a ton of time until you get into a good conversation, and it just seems to, well, disappear. Now, I hope you guys all have a great week. And if you are the champer, chances are it's hump day feet up on the desk i suggest maybe uh getting back to a big shooter all right to the rest you we'll catch you monday all right till then have a great week