Shaun Newman Podcast - SNP Archives #39 - Glenda Elkow

Episode Date: April 13, 2022

Elk farming, business owner, wife & a community pillar. We discuss running a business, sitting at the kitchen table with community giants & some philosophy "you get what you give". Let me know what you think Text me 587-217-8500 Support here:⁠ https://www.patreon.com/ShaunNewmanPodcast

Welcome back to the podcast, folks. Happy Wednesday. Hope everybody's having a great week. We got an archive episode back. I mean, I know I took a break there and it's been a while, but it's been a while for an archive episode. If you're new to the archives, their family stories that have been done and recorded over pretty much the past year and a half.

And they detail a person's life from Lloyd Minster or, you know, in the area. It's a little different feel than some of the most recent podcast. for sure. So it's always, these ones always are really interesting to me. There may be some of the most interesting interviews I've done because they kind of give you a glimpse into the days gone past, so to speak. So anyways, I'll stop blabbering. You'll hear all about it.

Before we get there, let's get to our episode sponsors. Deer and Steer Butchery, the old Norman and Kathy James family built butcher shop on the north side of Highway 16 and Range Road 25. It used to be used by local hunters from around the. area for custom cutting and wrapping. I was in it this past week and I tell you what, it's had a nice facelift. They've done a great job there. And of course, they've got Barry the Butcher who comes with 20 plus years of a meat cutting experience. Jeez, I still haven't figured out how to use my tongue in the old ads as we go here. So bear with me as we push through here. Of course, Barry the

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And if you need more info, go to agglan.com to check out their full inventory, or of course you can give them a call at 780875-4471. Gee, a guy who maybe runs that might be having to make an archive episode appearance, do you think? Jim Spanrath and the team over at Three Trees Tap and Kitchen. Here's some cool news if you're a lakebound person this summer. They are taking over operating the pro shop and restaurant at the Loon Lake Golf Course and are going to be under the name of Three Trees on the lake. That's pretty cool, isn't it?

They'll be opening in May with a number of the Three Trees favorites on the menu. And, of course, you know, the Loon Lake Golf Course has become a pretty cool place for different tournaments, companies holding tournaments, just people going there when you're at the lake, host anniversaries, birthday celebrations, you know, as Jim would say, it's not only just golf that you have to go there for, and if they're going to be out at Loon Lake, I think that'll be pretty cool for the people out there. And I've got to be honest, we toured Loon Lake from time to time, and I'll be making sure we stop in and see what they're doing.

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Dodge, Jeep, Ram, Fiat, and all things automotive for over 110 years. Farmer, volunteer, wife, and a community pillar. I'm talking about Glenda Elko. So buckle up. Here we go. Okay, it is March 28th. It is March 28th.

2021. I'm sitting with Glenda Elko. So first off, thanks for coming in. You're welcome. Good to be here. So we're going to dig into a bit about you and your life. The first thing I always like starting off these with is maybe go back to your childhood first memory or favorite memory from childhood. I mean, you had a pretty prolific father here in Lloyd Minster, Mr. Ray Nelson. Maybe you could take us back to childhood and just, I don't know, we'll start there and see where it goes. That's a long time ago. We'll try. Memories of childhood would be, boy, this will tell you how much Lloyd Minster has changed.

The first home I remember living in was behind the Lloyd Mall, which is now a seniors development center. I forget the name of it exactly right now, but. What was our home is the sort of center of that development. And I can remember in those years, there was pastures out in front of our place, right up to the highway and behind us and west of us, not much either. So it's a long time ago, but it really tells you how much Lloydminster has changed. School was pretty normal, I think, growing up as a kid. I didn't participate a whole lot in my sisters were involved in, you know, horses and things like that,

and I did the ride a 10-speed thing, and now I'm the farmer, and they're doing other things. So it's kind of interesting how that turned out. But anyway, those years were, seems like a lifetime ago, obviously was, but certainly school is pretty normal. You know, everything was kind of just go along day by day sort of thing. Where we lived was not far from where Nelson Lumber was and where our families spent most of our time and things like that. But I look at Lloyd Minster now and go, the way it fits together now wasn't really an accident.

for those who might not know where, for example, Superstore is and Original Joes and Arby's and that sort of stuff used to be Nelson Lumber and the factory where we manufactured homes and went back a couple blocks to where we used to park our big trailers for delivering and stuff like that. When I can remember Dad telling a story about when he first came to Lloyd Minster back in 1949 and him and his brother decided to open a lumber yard.

They worked at the beaver lumber for a couple years before that and started in a granary is how the story goes. And everybody said, what are you doing way out there? You know, if you think about where the old city hall building is way up on 50th and 50th, all the way over to where Nelson Lumberer was on Highway 16, it was really a long ways out of town. And I think one of the things I learned from my dad is if you don't get involved and work in the community and do those sorts of things, then life does just happen. If you get involved and be a part of making a community and developing a community

and working with the people in it, then, you know, things kind of start to come together. So there was a road at that time, but it wasn't Highway 16, as we know it today, right? So just the whole way that everything's been developed along Highway 16, even out in the western side of town now, or the city, I shouldn't say town. See, that's aging me a little bit. is all the product of a lot of work behind the scenes. By a lot of people, not just people like my dad, was people very involved in the community in those days, and they wanted to make things happen.

I mean, it's the same way Lakeland College happened. There's a group of business people that went and lobbied the government in Evanton, and the decision was, yeah, this is a great place to have a college. how are we going to afford it? What are we going to do? I know our company got involved in building the student residences at the college. You know, Vermillion College was always there, but it was, we need another campus in Lloyd. And at that time, the upgrader was being built. And it was like, well, we don't need student residence yet, but the upgrader was looking for people. And that's because these businessmen, when they got together, it was like cooking up ideas on how do we

make things happen and get stuff done. So the residences started out as being a place where some of the workers for the upgraders stayed for a while until it was needed for the students. So a lot of unique ideas and how kind of things came together over the year. So and I guess when you asked me about my childhood, I remember most the time sitting. at the dinner table, and this would be later on, like, high school years and stuff like that, the topic was always about work. It was, what's going on, what are we doing, who's doing what, all that sort of thing. Because even in those days, I think all of us kids were involved in part-time jobs at the lumberyard,

you know, kind of thing. So, yeah, that's how I remember it. So you got to pick up on a lot of, well, you get to pick up on a businessman, mind at a very young age and how they were essentially helping build Lloyd Minster. Mm-hmm. Very much so. That was, and it isn't, as I said before, it wasn't just my dad doing it. There was lots of key people doing that. Yeah, a group of them. Yeah, and, you know, Bud Miller was one name that comes to mine. And guess what? We have Bud Miller Park. And that was the tribute to all the contributions.

Yes, he was our MLA for a long time, but he was one of that mix that always got together. There's a number of people I can remember. The hills were involved, lots of names. You know, if I really sat down and thought about it as who all these people were at one time. So do you think that was a special group or like obviously it was a special group, but is that just their generation of the special group and every generation that comes? Or was that an interesting time where those people were very, very prevalent? Well, I think part of that question is, is do I see the same thing happening today?

You know, how are things getting done in Lloydminster today compared to back then? Were they a special group of people? Well, they were a group of people who believed in their community and wanted to move ahead and they wanted this place to be a place that was a really great place to live and do business. raise your kids, all those sorts of things. And that focus was really on, you know, did they have personal ulterior motives? Absolutely. It would be wrong to say that, you know, in my case, Nelson Lumber didn't benefit from all that work.

Well, okay, that's fine. So did plenty of other people. So did the city as a whole. Are people doing it today absolutely there? I spent years on the Chamber of Commerce Board and things like that and in Rotary Club and those sorts of things. Everybody in their own way contributes to a community. Some more than others, some in more unique ways than others,

but we're all a part of this community. And the more we help our community and keep things happening, the more vibrant we can be or we'll just sort of drift away and, whoops, not be around anymore. Yeah, it's, I agree. It's interesting to hear the stories of when Lloyd was a dirt road and a couple of factories and, you know, a couple thousand people and how they just kept with it and kind of the Kevin Costner,

if you build it, they will come kind of mentality, right, and keep working at it and build one piece and one piece. sit and Lloyd is well it's expanded rapidly and now you get to see what it what their hard work essentially did right but you know I'd love to have sat with your father or bud Miller or you know I got to sit with Vic Juba at one point there's another guy that has the stories from back in the day but there was there's a group of them in there that would have been just fantastic and you I you know that's why I was interested I said before we started like here's a lady who got to sit in and around and be a fly on the wall when all these conversations are going on.

That's pretty cool. The other thing I remember just on the topic of growing up in Lloydminster and that sort of thing, one of the things my mom always did, you know, she wasn't involved in the business, but she did her thing keeping the family, raising us kids and all that stuff. But every Christmas, we always had one of the local police officers. over that we're working. For that Christmas dinner, they spent their hour and went back to work. And those are the kinds of things, I think, that, you know, maybe a bit because the

community was the size it was, but even in a larger city, I think there's small communities in those cities that, you know, you reach out and do those sorts of things. And it was just a, we appreciate what you're doing, looking after everybody sort of thing. So that was sort of, I grew up understanding very early on. You know, you sort of get what you give in a situation like a community atmosphere or whatever you're involved in. Those are powerful lessons for kids to learn early on. Yeah.

Like you think about just bringing in somebody random just to, well, why are you doing that? Well, they're doing a lot for us. And you guys, you know, it's a good. to pay a little tap on the back and put a little food in the belly. That's pretty cool. I haven't heard of that one before. Yeah, it was different. Now, after high school, in high school, you mentioned working part-time jobs, that kind of thing.

Did you have huge aspirations to go do X or were you always, like, no, I want to be around Nelson Lumber, start my own business? Like, did you have huge aspirations to go off and conquer the? the world? Well, I think it was one of those young people that grew up and sort of wasn't exactly sure what to do. My folks at the time thought it would be a good experience to go away to college. So I went and took a two-year associate of arts at Langley, which is now Langley University out by Vancouver, a Christian college and still as a Christian university. Spent a couple years there. I didn't know what I wanted to do. So I took Associated Art stuff, you know, just a little bit of this and a little bit of that.

I could type really fast, so I'd type papers for all the kids that were in school just about. Sort of the, I guess that was a bit of the entrepreneur kind of, you know. It's like, yeah, I can type papers, you know, not charge too much and make a few bucks for myself sort of thing. So, you know, and that's the other thing we learned early on was just that whole how to be in business kind of thing and what it takes to do that. But I never had much of a desire to go and do something different, you know. I did go and it was right after high school. I think I opened the Bunchmaster Baker here and spent three years doing that and had an opportunity to sell it. So that at the time was a good thing.

I got married right during that time. And the decision was made to move to Edmonton. My husband wanted to go to school, so we moved up there for a couple years. And we had actually bought some land north of the Edmonton. We're going to farm there. There was an opportunity to come back here and be in management at Nelson. And I had worked in every department, you name it.

I loaded lumber on or unloaded boxcars of lumber right to working everywhere in that place. So when an opportunity came to look after the manufacturing side of it, it was like, I could do that. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, because I kind of know this inside out a little bit. And it was a really good experience to go do that because I think sometimes in a business situation, especially family business. You know, the kids get put into certain jobs and they're either excel or they kind of, you know, you know, don't do well for a variety of reasons. And I always wasn't afraid, I guess, to work with the people that were in the departments

and use their ideas and things like that. I mean, just because my last name happened to be Nelson didn't mean I knew all of it. Those people had been there a lot of years, a lot of them, and they had a lot of experience. So I think we worked pretty well together over those years. and I got to know the business in an even greater way at that time. So it was kind of exciting. Did he encourage his kids, like you and your siblings, to go, like, try different things, or did he really want you to come and work in Nelson?

Like, was he like, you know what? Glenn, if you want to come back, I got a spot for you tomorrow, here, boom. Or was he more like, maybe you should go try some things and see what else is out there in the world? We were very much encouraged to go try other things. And there was never a, you need to be here because I need you kind of attitude. It was when the opportunity came back here, there was a transition from some other department people that had found other things to do for a career, and so there was an opening. I don't recall my father making a job for any of us. If there was an opportunity there and we sort of fit that, he'd ask.

And it was up to us. If we didn't want to, that was okay too. So it really, there wasn't any pressure to do it. I didn't find at all. Okay, well, bring me back to this buns. Why buns? Like, I assume it was attractive. It was a franchise.

You bring it in and successful, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But were you a baker before that? Or were you just like, you know what? Let's just roll with this and see how it goes. I was kind of interesting how that happened because I was sort of just out of college and it didn't know what I want to do and it was like, I'd really like to do a business of some kind.

And it was sort of in the back of my mind. I'd worked in every spot in Nelson's and I didn't really want to go there. It was sort of, what could I do? And actually it was dad said, you know, I was traveling and I saw this bakery and it was very cool. So I said, okay. So I started to check into it. They came out to meet me and they said, you're pretty young.

We don't know whether we want to do this or not, you know. And I said, well, that's entirely up with you. I'm sitting here in front of you telling you what I can offer and I'm interested and all this stuff. So they ended up approving it. It was kind of different in those days. Like, that was in 1987 or so. And because that franchise was from Toronto, it was like you had to be open seven days a week. And the bakery was way over by, you know, where the bus depot used to be.

We were right across the road. And I was just like seven days a week. Well, whatever, you know. And nobody was open seven days a week in 1987. Now it's a... Yeah, standard thing. Yeah, totally. So there was some controversy came up because of it because some people thought that wasn't right.

And I didn't have a choice at the time I didn't think. So I think about almost a year went by and I just told the franchise, I said, we're not going to do this. I'm sitting here doing nothing on a Sunday because people don't shop on Sundays here. So for me it was really good. The business had moved along for the first year. It was okay, but it wasn't doing all that well. And it was sort of like, this is either a sink or swim thing. And interestingly enough, somebody, a fellow who had been hired as one of the top executives at Nelson, his wife, used to be a top person at McDonald's before they moved here.

So I got a hold of her and I said, look, here's the situation. We're okay, but I don't want to work this hard and not have a successful business, so what do we do? gave me some pointers and about how to do some promoting and do some other things. And from then on, it was sort of, this is working. This is really working really good, you know. You said she gave you some advice. You gave you a couple pointers, advertising, and what else? Well.

Like, do you remember that conversation? A little bit. We talked about the franchise was all about people coming into your bakery. And we were in a place that wasn't heavy foot track. I mean, down the road from us was at one time where the olive tree now is, was the old IGA grocery store. And so there was some connection there, but we were still off the beat. Wait, sorry, say that again.

Where the olive tree is now. The olive tree? That building used to be the IGA food store. Independent grocers. I do not remember that. Okay, carry on. Across from the CKSA. Yeah, whatever they call it.

anyway so she encouraged me to do promote to the restaurants and stuff and we started doing some of that in town and I eventually bought a van and we were delivering all over the place right up to almost cold lake in those places and big circle

two or three times a week stuff like that so just some of the and her thing was because she'd had that franchise background in the McDonald's system she said you know franchises are set up from a perspective of this is a tried and true thing that we do and we know it works. Well, okay, it works in all the big cities you're in, but they admittedly told me, we have never set up a Bunsmaster in the city this size. So this will be unique for us as well.

So when I told her that, I kind of already had in my mind, and she encouraged me. She said, that is your opening, that one right there, because they don't know this market. They don't know a small-tall market at all, including yours. So you need to step out a little bit, challenge what their stuff is, and do some things that they might slap your wrist a little bit and say, no, you shouldn't do that. And I did get talked to a couple times. Well, you're not supposed to have a pop machine in the front of the bakery.

Well, you know what? A lot of people came from 20 miles out of town and don't you have any water or pop we can buy? You know, I thought, I'm going to get a pop machine. Why not? and eventually I learned Yeah and eventually I learned They weren't coming here from Toronto Very often anyway so

What the hell did it matter? Yeah and I sent in my Reports of sales and they were happy And all the franchise fees That went along with all those sales and stuff So hey everybody win No I understand like You come from a family that owns Nelson Lumber

Or this would have been 50% at the time I assume. Yeah, that changed way back. Not that matters. A long time before I showed up. So I guess all I'm getting at is like the financial backing would have been there. But what I find very intriguing is the fact you didn't jump into like, I don't even know. It's not like you grew up like working in a bakery and went, wow, this would be really smart.

You're driving now, I don't really like that. All right, let's try it. So you would have had those first couple months must have been a roller, coaster of learning new things and screw-ups and you name it that that must have been well trial by fire is on the light side of it right yeah starting up a bakery with your background i don't know i like it and i think i can make it work right like that i think that's super cool but that's uh that's intense Well, I think it's interesting how you put that because I think sometimes there's a Maybe people don't sort of see through past the first layer a little bit sometimes when you meet people and I

I um for example uh to start the bakery I absolutely I got a loan from my dad totally when the bakery was struggling a little bit. I thought, I'm not going to do that. I'm going to do two things. I'm going to pay him off first, and I'm going to get a loan. So I went down to, in those days, it was the credit union, long before their service credit union. And I remember the manager in there, I can't think of his name right off the top. And he said, well, Glenda, I'll give you some money, but you got to get your dad to co-sign. I said that I'm not interested. Got up to walk out, and he said, well, just a minute. Come and sit down again. He loaned me the money. I paid my dad. I paid my off, put the money into the business, use the tips that I learned, and came out of there making a profit by the time I sold the place.

So, I mean, I learned that from my childhood. It was when you're in business, it's a big sacrifice. And I think that's where sometimes I have a bit of a disconnect with, you know, there is a difference between an owner and the folks that work for you. You can have a ton of dedicated staff, and I am so appreciative of staff that I've had over the years. But when there's that little thin line

between, you know, at the end of the day, this is my butt that's on the line here. And I always said to my staff, I remember there and at Nelson's, I want to hear every idea you have, but please don't be upset if I don't take your idea. because for you to provide me with some ideas and all of you, we'll find the best one.

But you have to give me the right to make the final decision because that's where I think that the rubber meets the road kind of thing and the responsibility for the bank loan and all that stuff comes from. And frankly, everybody's paychecks too, including mine. So I've been... called a few names as a boss over the years and who hasn't you know but I think all in all I've had the satisfaction of knowing that many of the people that I've worked with that worked for me have been pretty satisfied in how those relationships went so I'm I'm pretty happy today about

that that's a I appreciate you sharing all that because like that's that's what I'm after like that that is that's unique there's there's a lot there in uh um um um um um um um just in owning a bakery, right? And the lessons you had to kind of teach yourself and slowly, oops, that's not going to work, right? And I better do that. And no, I'm not going to get Dad to co-sign, right? Like, I can do this, right?

I'm curious who the guy was. You know, at that time, everybody who strolls through this place always mentions a guy named Peter Gulac. That's the guy. That was the guy? I couldn't think of his name. Well, I tell you what, I'm learning one thing in here. Yeah.

I hear all the stories. Peter Guleck. Great man. Yeah. Could we talk about your, I want to go back a bit. I want to talk about your parents just a smidge bit more because while growing up as a kid from Helmont, coming to Lloyd, now living in Lloyd, doing all my sports in Lloyd, graduating from Lloyd, et cetera, et cetera.

The Nelson name is, well, it's everywhere, right? Like, it's a big name in town. but I haven't asked about your mom. And I was curious. I'm assuming she was just as influential on you as your father. Yeah, mom was never worked in the business, ever. But physically worked in the business, I guess I should say. I should correct that.

Because like I was telling you earlier, I don't think there was a dinner table, family dinner conversation that didn't somehow have Nelson Lumber in part of that conversation. And mom certainly had opinions about it and that sort of thing. But she really saw her role as, you know, her husband, my dad, could go off and run the business and make a success out of it if you didn't have to worry about what's going on at home. So she really took on that role of, I'm raising the kids, I'm looking after the house, house, I'm getting the people to do the things need doing to keep the house going and all that stuff and quite happy and all that. And, you know, she'd end up being taken to some of the

events that they went to, you know, chamber dinners and all that stuff and quite enjoyed it. You know, it was sort of that role sort of thing. And things are different, I think, today when it comes to that sort of stuff. But mom really saw that as her role and was quite good at it, frankly, I think, you know. If you got in trouble, was it mum or dad coming after you? Well, that would depend on what it was about, but typically mom was the disciplinary

and because she was there. Yeah. You know, most of the time with the kids because dad did a lot of traveling, but he was certainly home a lot and that kind of thing and took us on camping trips and all sorts of things. So, yeah.

your father served in the military did he not he did he did i don't know a lot about it oh he didn't talk about it not a whole bunch um i couldn't even tell you what he did in the military to be honest i mean i his buddies used to talk to him about and the reason why this will sound kind of odd, but it was, I think, 15 years after the Second World War was over, which he was involved in. But I actually think he was here. He talked about being a dental assistant here for the military. He stayed in Canada and was an assistant in the Army Dental Corps. That's right.

That's what I know about it. And I remember he used to drag his medals out when we had guests or whatever. And Mom would always go, oh, geez, Ray, they've all heard that story. No, they haven't. And the reason why it was so hilarious is because these metals never showed up until 15 or 20 years later, and mom used to say somebody made a mistake. Like, there's no way those are, you know, why would they come that late, you know? Somebody sent them to the wrong place.

So, I mean, I'm not sure if there was a connection or not, but he certainly did serve in the dental thing. And I remember Vancouver area, something like that was talked about. Yeah. Don't you hope, like life goal, you hope you live long enough where your significant other going, oh dear, they've all heard this story 70 times, right? You hope you live that long. That's right. Yeah.

That's not me. Oh, that is me. Well, what's going on here? A reminder. A reminder. I got a reminder going off here. I guess that's to remind me that you're going to be here. Okay, good.

We did well. How did you meet your... No, no, actually. Siblings. So there was four of you. I have four older siblings. You're the second oldest, correct? What would the siblings get in the biggest argument about?

If you stuck them around a table like this and said, I don't know. For me and the brothers, it's always hockey, as you can tell from the room. and if you get us going, we'll get wound up and away we go. I mean, you can throw a plethora of other topics, politics, or, I don't know, lots of different things. I'm curious, what were the Nelson kids like? Oh, man, when we were younger, it was something going on at Nelson. You know, my brother sort of had a kind of a, well, dad, did you know, this is what happened, and we'd just be going.

What? Really? That's what we're going to talk about today. And so that would start a little bit. Nowadays, it would be more about politics and stuff, just because we're not physically involved in the business or in any way anymore because it was sold. But back in those days, it was usually something going on at the office

or the factory or something, yeah, usually. Or my two sisters would connect. on who's going to do the chores to do with the horses and stuff. Well, do you care to weigh in on politics? That all depends, I guess. Sure. I'm curious. We get to go wherever we want to go.

So if you're willing to talk about it, politics, yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's kind of governs their life, doesn't it? Yeah, right now. Sure does you. You'd mentioned that one of the toughest times in your life, life is COVID, which I think pretty much everybody can agree with. Yeah. It's further down that where it starts getting interesting.

And maybe we could just talk a little bit about COVID and, well, what's going on right now? Well, why should we start? Maybe I'll back up just a little bit and tell you that, you know, we haven't got to this part yet, but my husband and I've been farming elk for 30 years. Well, I'll tell you what, why don't we put a pin, we'll put a pin in. that for a second. We'll come to it. Let's talk to you about your significant your husband.

Yeah. Where does this, you know, I retrace steps to the bakery and everything, but you meet them along there. Did he work in the bakery? No, actually I was, when I met him, I was, the bakery.

No, I didn't have the bakery yet. I was managing the floor covering department at Nelson's and he was working for a contractor in Cold Lake who needed some floor covering. So I met him selling rugs.

Okay. And we went together for a number of years and decided to get married and never ever worked in the Nelson business ever, nor the bakery, any of that sort of stuff. He's his own person and does he have, did he have opinions about things? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Don't we all have opinions about things? but he never worked in the same businesses as I was.

But then we, he's an avid hunter and things like that and had got to meet some people in the elk industry and went to work, you know, on weekends a little bit just to handle the animals and things like that and said, this would be really neat to do. So we kind of talked about it and decided, yeah, let's buy half a dozen cows and set up a place and we'll,

we'll do it, you know. So that's kind of how we got into. That was about 30 years ago. So once again, neither of you had a background in elk. Not an elk, no. My husband did, was raised on a farm. So it was a bit of a natural for him to kind of drift that direction. He was doing his own thing for employment and things like that before that. And actually continued to doing it while we were doing the elk farm. So I ended up way quite a bit. So I ended up looking after some animals and things like that every day for a few years while that was still going on. And then he said, yeah, there's enough going on in the farm. We can do this full time. And I still worked at Nelson for a while out yet until it was sold.

How many years have you guys been married now? 33-ish, 34. What has made 33-34 years-ish? What has it made? What's made it work? like what has been something you would tell somebody getting into you know if they're going to get married or whatever like this is you know something that has really been beneficial to us well I think this might be a few things one that comes to

mind right away is mutual respect I think is absolutely critical like we're we look at each other as equals whether we were doing different jobs on the farm we're equals. I mean, there's obviously things where either one of us might be better than the other at, but I think we value each other's opinions. Do we have moments? Everybody has moments. Everybody has moments. But we seem to work through those and carry on. You know, it's, and I think just that mutual respect, that's a big one, I think. We said early on, you know, there won't be any name-calling, childish behavior, all that stuff when we don't get along. And I think that's made a huge difference because we're both adults trying to have the same goals and life.

And that's, I think that's it. I don't know. Was no kids a thing right from the start that you guys talked about then? Yeah. Yeah, just from a, because we wanted to do these things that we wanted to do, and it was just really not something we wanted to, we wanted to work hard at what we're doing and not worry about having to work hard at a family kind of thing at the time. And that seemed to work for us. You know, I think I better think on this. I want to say, you're like 37th archive interview I think I've done roughly I think you're the first lady to come in with no kids or man for that matter now I may be missing somebody so I find it intriguing because for a lot of people get married well get a graduate go to school get a job find that person get married have kids you know go

through that. And you're the opposite of that, which is interesting. I, you know, we, we, I have three children, the oldest turns five here in like, oh, what are we at? Like, like a week's time. Jeez, it might be this week, next week. Don't miss that date, by the way. Don't miss that date. That's right. Anyways, so it's like, it's like busy. And I talk to a lot of people who had lots of kids and then just like, don't ask me about this decade because I just can't remember anything because it was so bloody busy and you're just running and running and running. And we always joke, man, I wonder what it's like to have no kids. And I mean, I don't know, tell me, like, can you tell me a little bit about it? I'm curious on this side. Well, just the way

you said that to me, it popped into my head that our ability to focus on the business, whether it was the Nelson business, the bakery business, the elk business, was pretty, very focused. There wasn't the distractions of, and I don't want to use the word in a negative way, distractions of kids, but I think that, you know,

you could say the business would be a distraction against what the kids need. 100%, right? So it could work either way. But listen, while I sit here doing this, right? Like this is my, this is my,

I don't know, my hobby, my side, whatever you want to call it. Because I work full time. I'm in the oil patch. And then on Sundays from one to five, I come sit here and I do these interviews and I love it, right?

But I have to wrestle with, is it wise to not see my kids all week and then come have four hours on a Sunday where I come and do this? Right? Like that enters my brain. So I get exactly what you're saying. I guess is all I was hopping in to say.

Well, but if you, I take that kind of in a similar way. Like, if I spend too much time doing all those other things, then I don't get quality time with my husband either. True. Yeah, fair. So it's kind of the same in an odd way, and he's the same way. I remember because of the work he was doing when we first got married, he was away.

Like, we got married one day, next day he went to work and came home 35 days later. So, you know what I mean? But we had gone out together for a long time before that. So it wasn't that unusual and I knew that. But I think eventually that was the kind of like, he decided now that we're farming and all this stuff, I can see where I can not have to do that. And let's just concentrate on farming and I'll be home. And I thought, yeah, that's a good thing.

Well, 35 days or a long stretch like that, no matter if you get kids or not, It's still a long time not to see somebody. That's right. Like that's a long haul. Yep. And that would have been in the days without the cell phones and the text and the, I don't know. Interestingly enough, we never did texting and stuff like that. But because of his work, and he was a consultant at that time.

I mean, can you imagine back in 87, he had the big cell phone. But we also rigged up his computer so he could actually email off of the. his truck stuff. Like, I wouldn't remember how to do that nowadays, but there wasn't a lot of people doing those things, and you did it because he had an office on wheels, you know, so you had to do that stuff. But anyway, I think, to be honest, people have told me not having kids is selfish, and I kind of go, why?

Well, because you're, everything you do then is for yourself instead of for your kids. And I just go, well, you know, that's an interesting perspective, but that's a, you know, that's a interesting perspective, but that's not the way I look at it. And I, and I, I think if, if you really think that you don't want to have children, like I, I love children. I just didn't want to do that myself and have that full-time responsibility because I really wanted to focus on career things. So it was a choice then. and I had kind of a unique choice in those days probably now maybe not so much I don't know I wouldn't I guess I commit I was saying to before he started I commend you for it

because like lots of people don't want to have kids and have kids right and we Mel and I took my wife and I'm sure a lot of people well actually I know if you get married Catholic you have to go through like their marriage prep counseling whatever they call it and they make you ask the tough questions right which i think if you haven't had those questions before you know you got to really question what you're doing because like kids is a huge big time right like that's that's a big one it's a lifelong commitment right so for you to recognize that you didn't want to i don't know if that's i don't i don't know sure i would if they're going to call you selfish well then i put it in a good light because you were smart about

it it's better than that then like you know regretting for you're not you know regretting for the rest of your life that you had them. Yeah. Right? Like that's a pretty dangerous thing. I think so. I mean, I hate to get 10 years into it and go, wow. Why am I doing this?

You know, and maybe, who knows? Maybe, I think, like I said, kids, but I think there's a, you have to be able to do that and really want to. And the dedication has to be there. Man. those kids are depending on you yeah you know it's like people have we have two little dogs which i call my kids and this is our second set of two little dogs and i do anything for them you know they're they if they need a vet they're going to get a vet if they need something

they're going to get that something and not to the point of spoiling them but they are 100% dependent on us. You know, and so are people's kids, really. At least until a certain stage in life, I suppose. I think I did the polar bear splash for Border City Connects. Good for you. I turned 35 in May. I showed up to mom and dads out on the farm,

and I said, Mommy, you got a bike? She's like, yeah, it's down in the shed or whatever. All right. And I didn't tell her what it's doing. When grabbed it and then wrote it down a hill into, you know, water and froze my butt off. And the first thing she says it's seen in the video is, is that my bike? So I don't think, I think kids are always dependent on their parents because here I am. And instead of using my bike, I'm using my parents' bike.

Well, that wasn't, that was a good idea probably. They had the lake, too. What, um, What is, what is, you know, I'm trying to think of what, you've, you've held different positions over your time. Yeah. A co-CEO. CEO at Nelson Lumber. Yep. One of the ones we were, we put the pin in was you were the chair of the Alberta Elk Commission.

So after you got involved with elk farming, then you, instead of just sitting there and being an elk farmer, you got busy and went on a board and started looking at that. what was what was that like being on a you know because the article I read was all about calling elk and deer to try and eradicate cWD chronic wasting disorder correct disease disease thank you not disorder interesting you should bring that up especially now um yeah I chaired the Elberdell Commission for I think it was around 13 years or so And I, during that time, was president of the National Servid organization which covered elk deer, reindeer, farmed, all farmed animals, of course.

And when elk farming first started 20 to 30 years before we got into it, a lot of regulations that were very, very tough for farmers to survive under and lots of changes made. When I got into it, I mean, we really enjoy the animals. And the motivation to get involved early on was like, I could do this. I could help. You know, I motivated, you know, and that sort of thing. And learned a lot about, because of the... dad's involvement in the community and dealing with politicians to make things happen like

the college and like the upgrader and all those sorts of things that have come to the Westminster. I thought I could take those skills that I've learned, you know, sort of casually every day in my life and apply them to the elk industry and knew that there was things that, you know, a great business but could handle less regulation. For example, when I first got into it, it was about a year later that the first case of CWD was discovered in Alberta in a farmed animal. So very quickly got involved in what does that mean to the industry? Because it wasn't only two or three years before that, the discovery was made in Saskatchewan

in their animals at one farm. Anyway, it led to, you know, some border closures and things like that that we couldn't move animals. And so we did a lot of work with the people that were on the board and lobbying government and helping design legislation and things like that. And at one time, until just less than 10 years ago, because I left there about eight years ago, maybe, we didn't own our animals if they ended up. outside the fence. The government owned them as the way the regulations were written. And I said, this is wrong, you know. And we went through a couple of situations which were very, very trying. You know, farm animals can escape and a fellow way up in the north end of the province. One of his elk bulls lifted a gate off of its pins and a bunch of the animals got out.

and there's some opponents to the industry because there's some folks that enjoy wildlife don't think we should have them behind a fence. Well, they've been born there. They don't know any other life. They're like any other farmed animal. But anyway, philosophically, there was this sort of difference and some of that bled into the wildlife department

and the government and things like that. And the guy ended up having all those animals shot because they were outside the fence And it was a big turning point for me to say, we just have to fix this legislation. So we worked really hard to, and we got the border between Alberta and Saskatchewan open for animal movement and things like that. But getting back to CWD, I think I was telling you earlier and some of my notes there that what we're going through as a human race today reminds me a lot of how CWD is handled. example, I'll give you a very quick, so if because of regulations, every animal that dies or is slaughtered for meat, and there's, on our farm, we don't do any meat slaughtering because we're

into the antler side of the business more, but there are producers who are doing that. And so any animal over 12 months of age has to be tested. And the only way you can test them for DWD is if they're dead. So you get the vet to, there's a part of the brainstem that they want to analyze to see if the disease exists there. And if it's found in your animal, the first thing that the CFIA, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency does, is they lock down your farm under quarantine rules. And then they go out and they do what they call trace outs and trace in for three year. So which animals came in and which animals came out of your farm. And then they locked down those farms until they can do some more testing. And the more testing, how they do that is,

if it's found on my farm, they kill off all my animals and test them all. And most of the time they were finding maybe one more, you know, in a herd of however many animals. In our case, it would have been about 150 if that had ever happened. And we saw, we saw, and we saw, spent a lot of time negotiating with CFIA and even Health Canada because of the, you know, it is a food whether. So, and what I learned very early on, some might argue, but what I truly learned, that the folks who are in disease management and it's come to light with this pandemic we're all living through is, they have. have a very narrow focus and it's all about the disease. CFI never cared if we could ever trade an

animal or survive on our farms if this disease was found. It's like it doesn't matter. You're not moving anything and you're not going to do anything and we're going to close down borders and we're going to all these things and they did. And very, very difficult to negotiate with because their focus was so narrow. And I guess when I see the chief health people on the TV these days talking about, well, we got this many cases and we got this many in the hospital and this many whatever, and we're going to have to lock down and keep people from moving around, and it's just so familiar to me. And what I'm concerned about is these are the folks who are they professionals in their career? Absolutely they are. But their focus is so much on containing the

disease that the whole rest of it about can the economy survive. What about the folks who are the most vulnerable and those that are the least vulnerable? So why not put the resources to, you know, the older population in our case in COVID is the most vulnerable? Let's put all the effort there. younger people, maybe we should be getting more of them back to work than we are now and doing less restrictions. And of course, some of this is just my own personal opinion, but it is a little bit from years of negotiating with CFIA in order to try and help a business like elk farming thrive while at the same time dealing with a disease that's not going to go away. CWD will be around forever.

So as well as I probably COVID will. Well, COVID has been around for pretty much forever. Yeah. So locking things down and not letting anybody do anything might have some benefit in the short term in certain situations. But to do that to everybody as a blanket thing, And to be honest, in the elk industry, I found that for the folks at CFAA and places like that, it was easier to make the rules the same for everybody than to design things that were good for certain parts of the population.

It's fascinating to me how similar these things are. And I worry how we're going to get out of this and what the bigger picture will look like. Because it's going to be here forever, so we better figure out how to live with it. Well, here's the thing. By the time anyone hears this, it'll be months down the road, and I really hope, I really hope we're out of this thing. So do I. My gosh.

Yeah, what are we on May, March 20 of 2021 right now? That's right. And I started the first interview of this in March or April. It might have been beginning of April 2020. Yeah, when this was all started. When this all kicked off. And I remember telling, folks over at the archives, Lynn Smith and Don Duncan and Ray Bailey, that, you know, we can't sit here and act like this is only going to be a couple months because, like, not to mention a lot of the people that have come in here, especially at the very beginning, we're the most vulnerable.

We're like the, you know, 80, 90 plus, right? Like, and really happy we got as many as we have. We have lost people off the list in the last year, which, you know, not much a guy can do about that unless you hammer out interview after interview after day after day and try and pull it off. But you hit on a point that that I think frustrates a lot of people is instead of, you know, giving some, I got no better word than, power to some regional so you can adjust things for your region. So if there's no nothing going on, open some things back up, let people be normal again, let them social. They really love to paint and province by province is still too big. Like that's that's giant. Huge. Yeah. I I will say that there the odd time I've talked about this with different people that

I do run into people who think I'm insensitive. You don't care if people die or whatever. Oh, no, no, no, no, I do care. I very much care. What I also care about is what about all the people who aren't going to the hospital and aren't getting their tests for certain diseases that are nothing related to COVID, or they can't get surgeries when they need them, or all those sorts of things. What about the mental toll that is taking on people?

We're meant to be social people and get together and visit with friends and stuff like that to tell everybody. And, you know, there's some threat here in the news just this last week. Oh, my God, we might have to pull back on some of these openings we've done. I don't know. I just don't see our society doing well in all this and sort of worry about what's the bigger picture, because I do think we have to learn how to live with these things. And this won't be the last one. Any suggestions for on how we get out of this?

Is it just the leaders that eventually, because you look at the United States, and I know they're hammering the vaccine right now, like just pumping it, but Texas is wide open. Florida is wide open. There's a whole whack load of states. They're just wide open.

And everyone's going to say it's because they're all vaccinated, but I mean, that ain't true. They aren't all vaccinated. No. They're well past where we're at. That's for darn sure. but is it waiting for the vaccination or do you think people just need to? Well, I think if you, we personally watch a lot of U.S. news for a few different reasons,

which I won't get into, but there's recently doing some comparisons like between Florida and California as an example. California locked down really hard. Florida did not. California kids, as far as I know, most of them in the public. public schools haven't been back to school. Kids have been in school since last August in Florida. The amount of the death ratio and the amount of people that are sick and things like that, even long before the vaccine was available, were doing better. So it says to me that the lockdowns haven't necessarily worked in all situations. And I think what I see there and what I think our elected leaders need to do is look at the bigger picture.

This is going to be a... Are they going to get criticized? Absolutely. Like the governor of Florida, for example, is criticized all the time. It's a death trap, you know, all the folks that will say because he's let the state be open, for example. But sometimes... Here's one for you.

I whether it was in a leadership role in a company or when I served a term on the council in the county of Vermillion River, I never viewed those positions as a popularity contest. We're there in the tough job to make the tough decisions. And what I am worried about is that there's too many folks in the political arena that are more worried about getting elected again than doing what's right for the public. And that's why they're listening too much to one facet of what's going on in our world today. And that's the health care facet. Should they turn it wide open? No, absolutely not. But let's not lock everybody down, pay everybody to stay home and not go to work. And, you know, let's, and the other thing that for me is,

a huge thing is the loss of our freedom. For example, mask wearing is a big debate about mask wearing. Is it working? Isn't it? They're telling people, even if you're vaccinated, now you should still be wearing a mask and all those sorts of things. And I think you have to start to treat people like adults. So if you're concerned about everybody around you, wear a mask.

wear a mask. If I'm not concerned, the government shouldn't have to tell me I have to do that. I've had people compare that to wearing seatbelts was mandated. Well, I'm not sure I would stretch as far to say that that's the same thing. Because I think that we have to leave some of these things to people's judgment. And mask wearing for me is one of those. And there's so much science out there that says it isn't as effective as what they're making it out to be either. But that's a whole other argument that we probably shouldn't get into.

So I don't know. How do we get out of it? I think we have to start living again. And I think the politicians have to have enough strength and courage to make. make that happen so that we can look after the people that are most vulnerable and get everybody living again because it's not going away in my humble, totally uneducated opinion. What did you think of your time as a council woman in Division 5 of Vermilion River? was like that's your only foray foray into politics i mean i say that like because you've been

on a lot of different i mean we just talked about uh the elk thing and that right there is is politics just a different totally right a different arena but the same type of thing what did you think of of being on the council and and i understand time committing all that aside, what did you actually think of being in that arena? Well, it was kind of interesting. I was the first woman ever in the County of Vermillion River. Really? Yeah, to be elected.

So that was sort of a milestone. And when I got there, you know, there's a bunch of guys around the table. The story I heard, you know, six months after I started was, you know, Glenda, we all sat around and went, who the heck is this coming in here and what? earth does she know and how is she going to help us and it was a big emphasis on she does that bother you no not at all i um you'll get me on a whole segue of that sort of thing if we go down that road too far but i am very much about the you shouldn't be in a job if you're not qualified to do it where we're living now about the whole

We need to have a woman doing this or, you know, because it's just the right thing to do nowadays? No, it's not. If she's not qualified to do it, she shouldn't be doing it as far as I'm concerned. And I think that we've gotten a long way sideways on that. People should have to be qualified to do what they're hired to do or elected to do and things like that. So I guess I probably can. come to that because of growing up in a business that was primarily men. Nelson Lumber, there was more men than women there all the time. And to be a person in an executive position

as a woman there was quite unique as well, unless you were in the office part primarily. So I, that's, no, it didn't bother me at all. But how did I like it? Well, I actually really enjoyed it, but it was a lot of work and a lot of other things in life like our farm and things like that sort of took sort of second place to it. But I made a commitment. I said, yeah, I'm going to get myself elected and see if there's some things we can change. And I think most people that go into politics go there because they think something needs to be changed and they want to make a difference and all that stuff. And did I make a difference and make change? Absolutely. But it didn't come without working at it.

Because to just get elected and go warm a seat and not participate doesn't cut it either. You know, you hear about politicians that don't read the bills that come to the table that they're supposed to vote on. I've seen that happen. Did I ever do it? Never. Never once. I can honestly admit that I always read the stuff and if I didn't understand it, I phoned

somebody and said, what's this all about or whatever? But it's more of a commitment than I think some people realize when they go to do it. It was more than what I thought when I got there. And in some ways, it was less than what I thought. And I'll tell you why, is because in the county, for example, the primary thing the county dealt with was infrastructure, like roads. there's no policies being made about health care or any of those sorts of things. That's all at the provincial level. So most of what we dealt with was infrastructure stuff and development permits and all that sort of thing. And for me, it was kind of interesting because depending on people's background that get to the table,

and that's why I think a variety of backgrounds is a great idea. no matter what you're serving on, whether it's a board or something like that, but the idea that you want to build something and you go to a jurisdiction like the county to get a permit to do it, and depending on who's in leadership and who's on the council, sometimes it's been said to be it's okay if it takes three months to get a permit for somebody to build something. Well, the world I came from was like,

no, no, no, no, no. we want to start. You know, and trying to catch up the political part of our world to the reality part of world where businesses are successful because they're making decisions and they're doing stuff. They're not sort of, well, it could take six months before we figure that out. Well, why? It doesn't have to, you know.

So it was a totally different world than I was. used to. So it was interesting to interact in it. And actually, that's why you couldn't get anywhere with what you're trying to do with certain parts of the legislation in the elk industry that we were lobbying on. You know, sort of connected those dots for me. I could sometimes never figure out what's so hard about this. Let's just get it done, you know, but the system's different. Set up to take time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you don't get it in the middle of the term, there's a whole lot of election time on either end of those terms that, not a lot. I shouldn't say not a lot gets done, but there's things that are put aside because it's like,

well, that's too controversial. And you see it happen in politics, provincially and nationally, too. Things just going to stop, you know. It's unfortunate because in the real world, life is moving. And you've got to keep up if you want to be successful. or be ahead of it, not just keep up. I don't know if that makes sense or not, but... It does make sense. It makes me wonder if the current system as good as it is, right? I mean, like, you know, in the last 2,000 years...

Democracy? Yeah, I think we're definitely on the right track, but you wonder if there isn't some, well, you've already mentioned it. There's some inefficiencies for sure in how it's currently set up. Yeah, I think from what I saw that things could be better. But it's going to take people with the desire and the courage to step out in front of the usual and do something different and make it happen. And that's not always popular, but it's not a popularity contest either. Or it shouldn't be.

I think maybe I'm wrong on this but I'm waiting for a politician to come through that doesn't speak like them and just like listen this like just plain English we're just talking plain English this is what's going on treat everybody like adults like you say and just cut through the BS

Donald Trump was kind of that guy but he did it in such an arrogant jackass way that even if you you liked what he was saying you still were like god can he just like put some pa how is this guy a bazillionaire and he just has no polish to him like zero like zero polish it's interesting you bring him up because i've watched quite a bit and i think the media has been very unfair in a lot of ways but and did he say a lot of dumb things oh yeah But maybe it's because of my background.

I can get past all that and just look at the results and go, they're making it happen. But I don't think the mainstream media either told most of what they were doing. I think you had to search to find out what's really going on. There was a guy that didn't care and was there to do a job and do it well and did in many, many respects. Will he ever get credit for having a vaccine as fast as they have one? Probably not. But I don't think of what to happen without that determination and push

and sort of a business mindset that said, we can make this happen if we really want to. And what are there other partners around the world that were just as willing? Absolutely. And did it take money to do it? Absolutely. but I think you have to have that drive and that determination like you said to just step outside of it a little bit and do the right thing you've had a pretty decorated career

if I may say so thank you I guess well you just different things you've done you've checked off a lot of boxes I assume if you had a list of things you know I kind of want to do this yeah I want to do that okay check what do you what do you got what do you got uh the you want to still do, and you haven't done yet. Oh, my. Oh, that's a long list, is it? No, not really. I don't know.

I think there comes a time where maybe doing more things, this might sound selfish, but doing more things I want to do as opposed to, you know, there's a new generation of people kind of, up that are molding what kind of community Lloyd Minster is going to be. I don't see myself as having to be there anymore. Do I want to stay involved? Absolutely.

Like right now I'm on, for instance, the SPCA board. I don't have a lot of time to devote to getting in there and doing a lot of the work, but do I attend meetings and offer advice and contribute in other ways? Absolutely. And that's where I'm going to be able to do. I'm okay with that and they're okay with that because I can bring something to the table. But, and I guess that's a bit of an example on just sort of figuring out that, you know, both me and my husband have worked many years, very hard, spent a lot of time doing lots of things.

and it's getting to where it's kind of like now it's our turn take the time and maybe travel a bit maybe you know do some stuff if they'll let you travel yeah that's the one that's like I was ready to start doing that but somebody's told me I can't well like that if they opened the gates tomorrow and said you can go wherever you want to go where would be your first destination of choice Like, where you're like, I'm going here. Well, my husband's a kind of, it really enjoys golf. We don't have a lot of time to do it.

And I can go and swing the odd stick and hit the ball half decent. But I don't. He says, well, you should go practice, but you get really good at it and go to the driver range. No, I'm not that interested. But he'll have it on TV and you see these beautiful golf courses in various places. And it'd be just fun to go and see those. and I've been overseas. That's nice. Somebody would like to. Our little two four-legged kids limit that ability just a little bit by choice.

So I'm quite satisfied with North America and traveling to places that we just haven't seen yet, mostly, I guess. Well, your final one, and you've given me a bunch of this already, so maybe it's just reiterating it. But maybe what has been one of the best lessons you learned in life? Oh my. Well, I think what comes to mind first, right off the top, is learning how to be independent and look after myself. Do I need my husband to help me in all sorts of situations? Absolutely. But I know that if he couldn't, I could do it.

You know, I've known people in my life that, for example, a husband died and the wife says, I've never taken a car to a car wash. What? You know? And it just sounded kind of foreign to me. It was like, really? That's like so everyday kind of thing. And it's, for me, it's about survival and can I look after?

my own needs and the people around me. And I think the other life lessons is to make sure and hold friends close. You know, even during this whole thing we're living through, I think what's made it easier for a small group of us that kind of hang out together is being able to support each other. Everybody's really frustrated with COVID and what it's brought to our lives. But I think we all share that if it wasn't for friends and being able to get together and have somebody to talk about outside your little family. That's been really important, I think.

No, that's really good. I was thinking when you said learning how to essentially survive on your own, and that's empowering. That's really a confidence thing. being able to know you can handle whatever situation is presented, you can meet it head on. And do you want to surround yourself with good people and do you want your significant other to be right there and do things? Absolutely.

But knowing you can take care of yourself is, while those were some of the funnished years of my life, when you first got out from mom and dad's wing and where you went, and you're like, okay, well, that didn't work. That sucked. Let's not do that again. Absolutely. Like I can't tell you the stories that went on at college

Because that wouldn't be good But even those years was Just you know spread your wings a little bit Learn stuff Well you can tell me this about college Yeah Because we all everyone who goes to college Learns how far they can stretch their shoe string budget

For me it was craft dinner For my wife it was Itchaband noodles What was your go-to cheap food? Well I live lived in the school, so I didn't really have to do that. So you're a cafeteria. Yeah, but the one thing I learned really fast, and this was, my parents taught me this in a hurry.

We were, a bunch of us kids went out to a football game, and we were coming home from Vancouver down the 401 or whatever it was, what it isn't, I can't remember. Big four-lane highway, and we were talking, and I wasn't paying attention and driving and rear-ended the guy in front of me because people stopped because it was some kind of accident, 20 cars ahead. Well, because I was the last one that did that. It was my fault. So I lost the car that I had there for four months to get it

repaired. It was like, wow, I have no wheels. I can't do anything. And there was not going to be any kind of a rental or nothing, you know. You got to wait till that car is fixed because it was your So all sorts of life experiences like that, you know, teach you about things. And I can remember when I was a kid running out of gas in town here. Does as well walk down there. Get a can of gas and walk back. You know, stuff like that that really teaches you to sort of pay attention what's going on in your world, you know, and learn to survive.

Yeah. Well, I really appreciate you coming in and doing this. This has been a quick hour and 20 minutes. It's that long? Holy cow. I've really, really enjoyed it. It's been awesome having you sit in here and get to hear a little bit about your life and some stories and some thoughts. Well, I hope so.

Yeah, it's been kind of interesting thinking back to some of those times that I haven't thought about for a bit. Well, thanks again. You're very welcome. Hey, thanks for tuned in today, guys and gals. If you like what you hear, make sure to like and subscribe, leave a review, tell some people, believe me it all helps. And if you're looking to support the podcast, check out my Patreon account. It is in the show notes or just tell me to fly kite. That's totally fine as well.

Now, we'll catch up to you Friday. Go out there. Be awesome. Tackle the day. And who knows, maybe bundle up because it's been kind of chilly the last couple days. Either way, we're going to see you Friday. All right. Till then.