Shaun Newman Podcast - SNP Archives #4 - Fred Kastendieck

Episode Date: September 18, 2020

Originally from Hillmond SK,  Fred is 2 weeks shy of turning 88 years young. We discuss the dirty thirties, his father being taken to an interment camp for 4 years during WWII, running a trucking company while trying to make ends meet (for hockey fans Peter Pocklington screws him over hard) and a whole bunch more. Let me know what you think     Text me! 587-217-8500

Hi, this is Braden Holby. Hey, this is Tanner, the Bulldozer Bozer. Hi, this is Brian Burke from Toronto, Ontario. This is Daryl Sutterin. Hello, everyone. I'm Carlyagro from SportsNet Central. This is Jay On Right. This is Quick Dick, quick, tick coming to you from Tough Moose, Saskatchew. Hey, everybody, my name is Theo Fleary.

This is Kelly Rudy. This is Corey Krause. This is Wade Redden. This is Jordan Tutu. My name is Jim Patterson. Hey, it's Ron McLean, Hockeynet in Canada, and Rogers' hometown hockey, and welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks.

Before we get on to another fantastic episode, let's get to today's episode sponsors. First off, Jen Gilbert and team want you to know for over 40 years since 1976. The dedicated realtors of Coldwell Bankers, Cityside Realty, have served Lloyd Minster in the surrounding area. They are passionate about our community, and they pride themselves on giving back through volunteer opportunities and partnerships as often as they can. We know that home is truly where awesomeness happens, Coldwell Banker, Cityside Realty for everything real estate. They're 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Give them a call 7808753343.

Foremost, they offer smooth walled grain bins, hopper bottoms, and fuel tanks. They're in stock and manufactured locally. They want to ensure you know that they are constructed of the highest quality and engineered for a long life. Delivery is free within 300 kilometers of Lloydminster. You can buy at any of their co-op locations, Lloydminster, Lashburner-Neilberg. For more information, you can check them out on their website,

foremost.ca. HSI Group. They are the local oil field burners, combustion experts that can help make sure you have compliant systems working for you. The team also offers security, surveillance, and automation products for residential, commercial livestock, and agricultural applications. They use technology to give you peace of mind

so you can focus on the things that truly matter. Stop in today, 3902.52nd Street, or give Brodie or Kim a call at 306. 825-6310. Clay Smiley over at Profit River. They're the retailer of firearms, optics, and accessories serving all of Canada, no matter where you are, they can get it done for you. Give them a call today, 780-875-0-575. Lauren over at Art and Soul, the lady who makes your heirlooms last a lifetime. Let me just say she does amazing work. She always asks why someone is framing an item and her stories go on and on and on. It doesn't matter if it's a jersey, a photo, an artwork, you name it. She's framed it.

She'll make it look superb. She's open Monday through Friday, 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. Stop in 50, 16, 39th Street, or give her a call. 7808-6313. It's more than just a frame. It's a story. A shout out to Deanna Wannler and Read and Write for the S&P Billboard. They did fantastic work, and I get to drive by it every day, heading off to work. So thanks again, folks. If you're heading in any of these businesses, make sure you let them know you heard about them on the podcast, lets them know you're listening.

If you're interested in advertising on the show, visit shan Newmanpodcast.com in the top right corner, hit the contact button and send me your information. We've got lots of different options, and I want to find something that can work for the both of us. Now let's get on to that T-Bar-1 tale of the tape. Originally from Hillman, Saskatchewan, He is 87 years young.

His parents immigrated from Germany and during World War II, his father was taken to a Canadian internment camp. He's ran a successful trucking company. He continues to farm to this day. And above all, else, he is a great community member. I'm talking about Mr. Fred Cassandick. So buckle up.

Here we go. September 13th, 2020, I'm sitting across from Fred Cassadick. So thank you, sir, for sitting down with me this morning. You're welcome. Well, the reason why I've come out to sit and chat with you is you're a guy who is now, what, two and a half weeks away from being 88? October 1st, yeah. Getting awfully close. So you've seen a lot of life.

You've seen a lot of different things. You've been a lot of different places. So I thought maybe we could start about your childhood and just talk a little bit about your life. Okay, that's fine. So what do you remember? What's your earliest memory back? You know, you're born in 32? Yeah, 1932.

So you were born right in the midst of pretty much the beginning of the Depression. What is maybe your first memory back in those days? We lived across the river close to the river bank. we could watch the water, the ice go out and stuff like that. And those are my earliest memories, I guess. And in 1935, is when my mom and dad went to Germany for three of the winter months. so that to show off their family

to the grandparents and that was a boat trip of course in those days and I was three years old I don't remember much about individual things

but the foghorns on the ship is still in my They vibrated you Yeah, yeah And another thing that scared Dickens out of me was My grandparents had a German shepherd dog

That used to sit by the door and watch Whoever went in and whoever went out Those are the two things That I remember of that trip Growing up beside the North Saskatchewan River And you remember mentioning watching the ice go, that kind of thing. As kids, did you play around the river?

Or was it like forbidden to go down there because of the dangers? We were forbidden to go to the river, but there was a creek that went right through our place that ran into the river. And that was more or less a playground for us when nobody's watching. What would happen if they caught you down in that? Oh, I don't know. Probably didn't. Wasn't a life or death problem. It was a supply for the livestock for water.

That's what that Greek was. And we go down there to get the milk cows and things like that, yeah. You were mentioning, and we've channed about this a couple times. But back when you needed lumber, you used to go up to the lakes to get Deadwood? There was a big fire through there, and that was kind of the end of the logging situation. Like there were several mills up there.

Peppers were one of the mills, and there were several little Jippo mills that used to make a little. there in the winter and somewhere they were farming or homesteading or whatever. And after the fire that forest more or less died down and my dad was able to get a permit from the forestry for cotton dead trees and that would have been just a little bit this side where fishing lake is now. The lake was always there, but no road.

Everything was done by horse and sleigh, a horse and wagon. So you'd take a horse and wagon, or your father would take a horse and wagon from here and go roughly, what is that? Half an hour from where you were probably living at the time? In car days, in car time. I assume not in a horse and cart. For us it was a day's trip with a team of horses

from where we lived to where we cut the logs, yes. It was about 20 miles, be exact. And so then you'd go up there and hand saw them down? Yeah, there was no power saws. There was no chainsaws. That was all, even if there was such a thing, they were very heavy and very cumbersome and something that was not affordable for us. So we used the swede saw and a cross-cut saw to cut them trees.

And then we took the trees to the mill, and the mill sawed them up into square timbers. But my dad was up there since the day he came to Canada because that was winter occupation. And they used to either bring the lumber home and make a granary or whatever they needed or a house. And that was winter wages. after us kids had to go to school, we stayed on the farm. But before that, we went to bush camp with mom and dad. So before you were in school, your dad, your mom, and you and siblings would go to bush camp and hang out there and chop trees every single day.

Well, we were too young to chop trees, yes. But that was the general gist of going up there. Yeah, mom and dad. spent the winter together that was one way of doing it yeah yeah that was and then after the war

is when we did the fire we gathered up the fire killed to build a barn where I live now same quarter section yeah speaking of the war um

your family had a while your dad was put into internment camp for four years did you ever did you ever talk to him about that i mean you would have been old enough to remember that i suppose oh yes i was i went to i started at school in 1939 that was before the war yeah so i remember that being missing yeah did like the rcmp come to your doorstep and grab them or or was it something voluntary where he had to turn himself in? My dad got a job offered to him from the Zoot-Eton German that came to this country,

and they were given land around the bright sand lake area, and a lot of those people did not have a clue about, farming, they were professional people and my dad was hired to show them how to harness a horse and how to milk a cow. And that's where my dad was when the war broke out. He went there to work and came home to the farm for the weekend. And when the war broke out, when the RCMP went to his cabin and hauled him away. And then I think it was the following day or so that my mother got notified that he won't be home for a little while, which turned out to be four years. That's a bit longer in a little while.

Yeah, but that's the way they were. Yes, when they came to my mother's place, they grabbed out. all the guns and all the personal things. That was how that went, yeah. They changed prisoner war camps as the years went by. So they weren't in the same camp all this time. Where was the first camp? Or where did he...

Was it Eminton? No, between Calgary and Jass and Banff. I can't come up with a name right now. I've been there a few times. It was right in the mountains. And that was originally a training camp for soldiers. When the soldiers moved out, that prisoners moved in.

And he was kept there, and then they went down east to Petiwawa is one of the places that I remember, my dad talking about. I was in Ontario, I believe. You got ship there? The whole camp, everybody, everybody that was incarcerated, went there, by train. I have no idea what they used for time to go, but the way my dad talked, it was to even out the expense amongst Canada, different provinces for different, when they were down east, he occupied himself in the bush too, and then he had back trouble, so then he transferred himself to the kitchen

because the kitchen staff was all interned people too. And then for evening pastime, he took up knitting, used to send home homemade socks, like socks that he knit himself. That was our Christmas present, our birthday present. But I think they did get paid for spending money, like for cigarettes and for whatever personal things they wanted, toothpaste. And it seems to me that my dad told me it was like 30 cents a day, or 30 cents a day, or 30 cents. yeah so

whatever three bucks a week something like that it was allowed to them for personal stamps

yeah yeah I was totally carved those two horses in there yeah yeah that was another

one of his pastime things yeah he was a very talented man because those are quite beautiful. Oh, definitely, yeah.

The nice part about them was, they're all one piece. One piece of wood, they're not glued together. He made his own knives with broken saw blades and stuff like this. When they had a hand saw working in the bush and the blade broke or wore out, that was knife building material.

How about the hair on the horses? What did he do with, where did he grab that from? Those hair were cut off a human's head when the guy was sleeping. They laughed about that for many days. This guy had a patch of hair missing and I didn't even know it. And that's what he glued on to the, that was the horse's mane, yeah. In those four years, while the war, is going on and your father's an internment camp do you guys get to is there like can you go visit

them no never saw my dad or my my mother hadn't seen him either I think they had visiting hours but to go from here to Calgary or to Banff and it was more or less impossible because what would she have done with us because we were all On school and under school ages. How many was she home with at this point in ten? Five of us. Oh. I was the second oldest.

So. You would have been what? Eight, nine years old? Your father was taken in 41? 39. And the minute the war broke out. They grabbed. Yeah.

So seven years old. Yeah. So I assume your responsibilities as a seven-year-old changed immediately. Oh, yes, yes. Well, all the way through because we had to survive somehow. Like, I mean, there was no monthly check or weekly check. I mean, that was all what the farm produced. Like, neighbors helped my mother.

us with the field work and the harvesting especially. And it was definitely was a slim living. What is slim living? Slim means very little income. I know, but paint a picture for me. Like, slim living is one meal a day, three meals a day, or you're wearing the same clothes for the next year. What is slim living when you think back on it?

Oh, we never went hungry. We always had meat because we had horses for transportation, and we had cows for meat and milking. And it was definitely different than what we do today. tea and essential sugar tea and essential sugar tea and stuff like that were the only things that came from the store. The rest was we always had a garden that was our potatoes and vegetables. It was, there was no power at that time, so that builds that were.

used to today. We're non-existent. No. And coal oil was our lamp. Like we, without power, we had to have some sort of light. It was all coal oil lamps. And, yeah, I know it was,

we did not have to worry about insurance and cow and tires and all the things that go with this modern age. It was different all the way around. It's hard to imagine how people lived in that time, but we were not the only ones. Everybody was the same, so there was no such a thing. My car is newer than yours.

Did you guys have a car? No. No, the car got parked. The minute the war broke out, because my mother never had a driver's license. And eventually the tires were the big thing because there was no rubber in the war years. So this neighbor did some favor for my mother

to get the tire off the front. And pretty soon the car was up on blocks when, as I last remembered, yeah. But the tires were the first thing that... That went. I was... They were picking them up for their vehicles. Then a lot of buggies and that were made with car tires too.

Like when the wooden wheels fell off, the next thing was car wheels. So that was... Some of the things I remember. very well yeah. Cars, I was actually wondering what car did you have? What was the car up on blocks? Do you remember?

1927 Chev, four-cylinder. Wooden wheels. Had wooden wheels? Yeah, per. I think quite a bit of the body was wood too. Model A was actually the first car that was metal only. This was a chev.

Do you have memories of the first car riding around in it? Well, money was tight in those days, and my dad used to go to town with a 45-gallon barrel on a wagon, and a team of horses pulling it, get this barrel filled up and brought it home, put it in the shade in the bush, and when that barrel was used up, that car got parked for the rest of the year.

That was his ration. Or way of rationing it, I should say. But there was no snow plows anyway, so as soon as the snow came, it was automatically. Caput. Yeah, yeah. That's when we switch the horse and sleigh. What do you think?

I think I'm always curious. You've seen that. And now where we're at right now, like, there's been so much change in your lifetime. Now if you want to travel, you know, if you could go for visitation, and your father was in an interment camp at Banff, you'd drive down on the weekend, spend the weekend and come back.

Heck, maybe, probably give them an iPad and you can FaceTime. It was impossible that time, because the only way to get there would be by train. and even if it was not a money thing, it was a time thing as well. There was things to do to matured you survived, and you just couldn't take 10 days to go there and back to say hello. No, that was definitely financially not possible. We only went to town for groceries,

for the beer and essentials once a month. What did you do then? So if you're out on the farm for every day of the month, except for one day when you go to the town, did you see neighbors? Did you have get-togethers, that kind of thing? Or what was it like for the other 30 days of the month? Oh, we spent a lot of time at home for sure, yeah.

And that was snaring rabbits and stuff like that. I remember the jack rabbit was not that popular, but the bush rabbit there was lots. And we had a little trap line and snares. And I don't know really. Yeah, wood was all bucked by hand. And there was no such a thing as a propane or gas furnace. It was all wood stoves and kitchen stove was wood.

So that took quite a bit of time in the wintertime to buck up enough wood to keep the cabin warm. It was not a thermostat on the wall, that's for sure. You say cabin How big was the house you guys were living in? Oh, about half the size of the one I'm in now. So was it two rooms? Was it one room? Three rooms.

It was a kitchen and a diner and a bedroom. Everybody sleep in the same room then? Pretty well. Yeah. When we got older, the boys got shipped. to an attic because there was enough room in the bedroom. The girls were always in the same bedroom as mom and dad. But it was a log house.

It was stuck wood on the outside, I think, yeah. Inside was just cracks and the logs were mudded. How about windows? Did you have, you know, you look around the place today, you got windows everywhere. Were there windows like there are today? Windows were glass and a house, but like the barn and other places like that, we just used canvas.

Sugar sacks, flour sacks, all came in cotton bags, I think is what they call them. Okay. Yeah, and they were... dunked in candles in wax. The bag was in wax? No, after the sugar was used up or the flour was used up, the bag and all the candles in the house, when what's left of a candle was put in a heated

and brought to a liquid, and then the bag was dunked into the liquid and then got hung up and as soon as it hit the air and cooled off it would make a a see-through material that could handle the weather elements that's correct yes that's what I was trying to say and that

if somehow through accident or something the glass in the house got broken, that would have to do until we went to get another piece of glass. But the barn, that was, as long as it let a little bit of daylight in, that was what you call the window. But, yeah, no, flower sack, what you bought, 100-pound flowers. and was never, the bag was a valuable thing. No kidding. That's the first time I've heard about windows made out of bags and candle wax. Makes sense it would allow light through, it'd be thin enough to allow the light through,

and candle wax obviously makes it, you know, shed moisture. And also kept the heat in like an ordinary sack. Yeah, we'd let the wood. Wind would go through. Right. That wax healed it. What was school like back then? When your father's gone, are you going to school?

Yes, we went to school. My older brother, I went, but we went by horse and slid. There was no such a thing as a bus. There was no roads for a bus to travel on. I love these stories because as kids you always hear, walked a mile uphill and then a mile back home uphill and everything in 10 feet of snow. But truthfully, it's not that far off. Well, yeah, no.

In the summertime, we went horseback. In the wintertime, it was too cold to go horseback because we had five miles to go to school. Five miles one way? Yes, yes. and we used Toboggan is what we called it it was a stoneboat I guess more or less

I don't even know if you know what that is it's two skids in the floor on it and you were able to blanket yourself to keep warm whereas on the horse you were just out for the elements okay so yeah So how did it power itself?

A horse. A horse pulled it. And you rode in the back as it pulled you along. Yeah, yeah. We had a little snowboard in front so that the snow off the horse's hoofs wouldn't hit you in the face. But after that, we were in the open. How long would it take you to get to school? We always allowed ourselves an hour, and that kind of depended on the weather, on the road circumstances.

If the horse had to tread heavy snowfall or rifting, then it was kind of nip-and-tuck. But if the road was packed from day before or whatever, it was a little quicker. quicker, yeah. And then when you got to the one-room schoolhouse, you had no power? No. So everything by candlelight? No, no.

They had a little bit different ways. In those days, our, what we have, summer holidays, now used to be winter holidays. You went to school until Christmas, and then you never started two months You started back at the beginning

and spring almost. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, there was no such a thing as going to the lake and Sundays, or in the summer there was, well, the lakes up here, like fishing lake and Peck Lake and those kind of local lakes, there was no road to him.

He went there with a team and wagon and that was a once in a while summer experience. But there was no cars there, there was no campsite there. There was a hole in the bush with the lake. How was the fishing back then? Well, considerably better than this today, that's for sure. Yeah, no, it was a different life for sure. Do you remember when your father came back from,

Like the first time you've seen him in four years? Did he just, did you know he was coming? And then after four years, you're, you know, you haven't seen him in four years. It was like big party, big excitement? Was it, hey, the barns over there, we could use some help shoveling the. We didn't, I didn't personally, I didn't know my dad. But mother and us kids all jumped in the wagon, went to Deer Creek where he got his ticket to by train. And that was our closest town was dear, or deer creek was our closest.

It was our mailbox and it was our grocery store. And there was also two elevators, so there was a track there at that time. And somehow my mother got a telegram. There was no phones at that time, but my mother knew that he was coming in such a train. with the train, I think at that time, once a week. So it was quite a, it was an event that I will never forget. But, yeah, my dad was much looking forward to it. And I remember him hugging us and tears were running down his face.

That's the only time I ever seen my dad with tears. but that was we were not used to him being around no doing chores all that stuff we had our own ways and he had to find his way there too I guess one kid had to look after the chickens

one kid had to look after the pigs and that's just the way it was. Did you ever graduate from high school? Did you go to high school? High school in those days were not, there was no country school that taught 9, 10, 11, and 12 because most of our teachers were not educated enough to do the high school thing.

All my siblings went either to Lloyd Minster or to Paradise Hill or, while my younger brother even went to Kitt's Scotty. Because Kitskotty had a dormitory at that time. Yeah, no, I thought I was smart enough. I never went to any of that. The law said at that time was that you go to school until you're either grade 8 or 15, whichever comes first.

And for me, it was, I graduated grade 8, and that was my last day of school. So what did you do? So you just graduated school. What did you go do? What did I do after high school? Well, it was a very poor year for the farm. We had little or no crop,

and my dad more or less said there is some good crops in Northern Alberta. Why don't you try and get a job? So he gave us, I think, was $30, $35 that covered the bus ticket and a meal or two. And we went, my older brother and I went to Grand Prairie looking for work. You didn't have a job? No.

Hopped on a train and went to? There? Bus. Bus? Yeah. The bus ticket was 30 bucks, so we had five bucks to spend whatever we wanted to. We had to spend one night in Edmont because of the connections. Then when we went to Grand Parry, we hitchhiked to a place.

by the name of Woking. And my dad had some friends there that he related us to. And this woman was, the man got killed. And the woman was there alone on the farm and she wanted some help with the haying for to feed her cows and horses.

So we spent the summer there. And when she hailed out, just before harvest, she came to us and said, we don't have, I'd like to keep you, but I can't afford it. So my brother went home, go back to school, and I was going to stay there find another job, which I did.

And I ended up in P-Server at the Ford Garage where I apprenticed for four years for a mechanic. And after those four years, I listened to these truckers how much money they were making $400 to go to Hay River

and stuff like that and went to my head that's big money so I was going to do that too that's how come I got into the trucking business did you ever have a point when you were growing up and you went

or you thought like you had a dream to do whatever I don't know what maybe you wanted to be a movie star let's just put something sky and pie in the sky Was there any ever time where you thought about that?

Or it was just like you never had a dream of going, I don't know. I was just curious what as a kid, did you have an idea of something you really wanted to do? Or did you always want to be a truck driver? I guess is what I'm getting at. No, no. I went to, I was always going to farm. But for me, this farm was way out of reach because the wages that we were getting and like when I apprenticed in the garage,

I was paying $60 a month for room and board, and I was getting $27.50 for wages. So there was not much money for... Anything. Anything not even, you know, like buying a farm was out of my... reach. And as the years went by, I did a little bit better in wages because every time I want to quit and do something else with more money, my boss gave me a raise and sometimes five cents an hour and stuff like this. So he lured me into another year and another year.

So that's how I was there for four years. When you started trucking, what were you hauling? At that time, the oil companies just start moving into the north, and there were mostly Americans that came with these crews or all the people that were in authority. 40 were all Americans. And I knew some of them from fixing their cars when I was working in the garage.

And that kind of helped me along. And my first truck was a grocery truck. At that time, all the oil companies, the drilling companies, had their own camps and they had their own cooks. and they were looking for somebody to Peace River had all the suppliers like Horn and Pitfield and Marshall Wells

and all those guys that were all in Peace River on account of the boat traffic in the summertime so we went to those wholesale and picked up our orders and then delivered them and that was the beginning of my trucking days Was hauling groceries or supplies? Yeah, yeah. Whatever, they needed that this drill rig.

What was the drilling rigs like back then? What was the oil patch like back then? Well, everything was exploratory. Like, they didn't spend five cents on roads because they weren't sure whether they drilled a certain spot that there was going to be oil. and then the government to encourage this exploration, they paid a good part of that,

but it cost to drill that hole. So that's a lot of these small oil companies got started too. I know some of the, I know some, the father was a farmer, and the son was a, say, engineer or somebody that went to school. So 10 farmers get together and throw each a thousand bucks into a pot, and that was an oil company.

That was the son knew the mechanics of it, and the father supplied the money to be. build a bank account. And that was, the early part of that was, that's what, was a lot of that. And then some of them guys made money and flourished, and some guys went broke, and whoever they worked for went broke too, because there was no payday. The way the government was set up, labor is first, and then, contractors are down the line and if there's only 20 cents on a dollar that's

going to be paid out three years from now then you automatic go broke that was how that went how many years did you spend trucking 23 I think 22 and did you enjoy it parts of it was good and parts of it was not good and When the oil patch was busy, I was busy in the oil patch. When the oil patch went dry or downturned, which was probably once every eight, ten years, then you had to use something else to make your payments or make your living. I hold gravel, I hold wood, I hold lumber, but my main income was always, as soon as the rigs start going, I was back there because they were paying a lot better money. But you have to diversify yourself and never get too heavy into the finance, otherwise you were dead.

It was feast or famine, I guess, was the right word to explain it. I'd been told along the way on the road here that you once worked for Peter Pocklington, is that true, in a roundabout way? He had three drill rigs, and I had like half a dozen trucks at that time, and I had enough equipment to move rigs from location to location. And most of them guys did like three holes in one winter. And Peter snared me into doing his work firm. And then towards spring there was no money or little money.

I phoned them up in Calgary one day and I said, I'm to the extent where I got to have money. My banker will not supply me with any more cash and I need money. for my crew. Yeah, pay the bills. Payroll. Oh, he said, I just sent you a check this morning. So he kind of shut me up before I got going good.

And he did send me a check for $1,000. And that was hardly enough for me to pay my payroll. How much did he do you? at the time. Oh God, I can't remember them figures because that's just quite a while ago. I've been on the farm now since 71, I think. But if you paid you $1,000, did he owe you $50? Did he owe you $10? Oh, I would say he was close to $50, $40 anyway. Yeah, so a huge chunk of money and he paid $1,000. Oh, yeah, but he didn't lie to me. He told me he sent me a check this morning.

But the more I've seen them, the more I dealt with them, the more I realized that I got kind of sucked in because I was always the kind of guy that if you owe ten bucks, you pay ten bucks. You don't, if somebody give you time to pay your bill, don't try and cut them down. That was my, what I learned at home. Yeah. How many trucks did you have underneath you them at your highest time? You mentioned having a small fleet. How big did your company grow? Had two bad trucks and two flat decks and two tankers because we had the bulk station and Red Earth at that time. And the rest were pickups, you know, like grocery trucks.

Yeah. Yeah, no, I think seven was what I licensed at one time. And do you look back at that as stressful? Was that something you enjoyed having to look after all these different parts of equipment and I assume different guys working for you? Or were you happy to sell it off and carry on and get back to the farm? there was good times, there was bad times, like I said, when the downturn came, and sometimes you had to, and another thing that was really hard to handle was oil companies had the kind of habit of paying you only every three months.

And so usually around Christmas time we were so broke, you couldn't pay attention. because that's when your work started. That's when you had to winter rise. Everything was extra expense. That's when your payroll started to explode. And because you needed more employees for winter work. And that was kind of... And then there was another thing, too,

that when I started, I had no equity. Like I didn't own no property. I just buy one truck after another because they were on the road. And when I went begging for money at the bank to pay my men, I was told that anything on wheels is not equity. It can be worth big money today.

and it can be worth nothing tomorrow. And I never looked at it that way, but that's when an older bank manager told me. And I kind of kept that in the back of my mind. So that's when I bought my first acreage in Peace River. That was a piece of land with a house and a shop. And I could always fall back on that for, money for borrowing.

If you were willing to sacrifice your house then you're okay to borrow money for your payroll. But I had to do a lot of learning after I left grade eight. Well, actually two things stuck out to me. I'm always interested in, lessons learned the experiences

what you tell you but you said by Christmas time you could hardly pay attention meaning you were so stressed that you were preoccupied no in the fall of the year when the frost hit the ground

is when those guys were went to the bush to drill their winter project and you had extra chains extra antifreeze and winter oil and all that stuff to buy. And so anything that you had left over from the year before, I'll went away in no time.

And like I said, three months before you got a check. You had to survive for three months and still be going 100 miles an hour to try and get them what they needed. Exactly. And the bank telling you we're not going to give you any money to cover anything Well the bank I always had

Realized that you need the bank to operate any kind of business And they would give you But they had a deadline I mean a cut off period I guess After you had Your quote I used up That's when they said no more

and that usually was Christmas time or shortly after. You mentioned when you left you had to do some learning. What's maybe one of the lessons that sticks out to you that was, you know, that stuck with you till this point in time? Financing, I think, was the biggest thing because my father never financed anything. He lived through the 30s and, when he was not going to borrow any money for expand machinery-wise or anything else, because he was more or less, you don't spend money that you don't have.

That was my dad's attitude. And this worked for me for a while, but after a while it didn't work anymore because in the trucking business, truck costs so much and to rig it up to do whatever kind of work you want, costs so much, and pretty soon you're depending on borrowed money. My philosophy was always that I only finance one truck until I had enough money to buy the next one. I didn't buy anymore, and I always thought that was safe.

But when you run into this parking and sorry, then that doesn't hold water. You work your runs off all winter and end up with a bunch of papers in the spring. We are now bankrupt. We cannot pay you. Those are the blows that you learn. And that's, like I said, financing was my biggest learning thing.

How did you deal with the first time you got the papers that said they couldn't pay? Ready to throw up your arms and say, I'm done, I'm finished. Then this guy gives you a little levy, and that guy gives you a little levy. And you peck here and peck there until you get enough to make a meal and keep going. but I've had different ups and downs and even in my farming career. There was times when, well, probably when I first started, first crop I sold, we got $5 a bushel for wheat. Second crop, I got $250.

There was not enough money in the bin or none. enough grain and the bin to pay the bills. So I had to go back and find a job that I knew what to do. And that's when I went back up north. Put your head down and go to work again. Yeah. I farmed in the summer and went in the oil patch in the winter. I did that for quite a few years. So my dad had smaller machinery. My dad didn't spend no more money on machinery, so everything was kind of used up. And when I started, I bought out Herb France

and I had more acres to do. And so I had to buy machinery and I ended up owing more money when I had to buy machinery more money when I start farming than I ever did when I was in the trucking business. I always thought I was a high flyer when I was in a trucking business and I was not, I didn't even start until I started farming. That's when the, you know, and a farmer only gets paid once a year. A trucker does get paid more often than that. When you looked back over your 88 years, 87 and 9-10s, what is maybe the most difficult year you had?

Is there a time where it was, you know, you're not getting paid or, I don't know. When you look back, what was one of the toughest times? I want to do the same thing for the best, so I'm just curious the opposites. You've seen a lot of different things. What was one of the ones that really put your back against the wall? The difficult, most difficult thing in my life was having four kids and no mother. And my kids were all beginning school. You know, like the oldest one was probably six, five and a half years old.

That was my hardest time. What do you do now? You can't be at home with the kids and run a business. It don't work because you can't. In those days too, like there was no cell phones and no this and that. Your work came from your telephone. Your telephone was screwed to Lua. So you had to make sure the kids had to eat and had clothes to wear.

And your business needed somebody to answer the phone. To me, that was the worst, the hardest time. It was just like running into a brick wall, didn't know to go right or left. So what happened? No, naive. You had four kids at home by yourself. What happened to your wife? She turned out to be an alcoholic.

Well, she had trouble with that all along, and then finally got so that she didn't spend no time at home. She was looking for the next junk, and so that left me the only provider. I tried to find people to work. work for you, you know, like look after the house, cook a meal, wash clothes. But I never had no luck with that. It was, what's this guy doing with a young lady in the house? This was one of my first ones was this girl wanted to go to high school.

She wanted to have a place to live in town. And so she wasn't there very long before she did, you know, three, four months, and she couldn't handle it. She kind of more or less packed her bag and disappeared. Then was grandma and then was grandpa. And then, you know, like you just can't replace a mother. That's right. that was something I didn't

really want to get into but you asked and you got it I'm always curious I just everybody always wants to dwell on the highs but the highs and lows is what make what make life right that's right you ask the question

and immediately people know what the low is and probably immediately there's a few highs through life too oh yeah and four kids at home by yourself trying to run a business. That's, I can imagine the stress that goes on.

Yep. How about the high? What sticks out over your time? What's one of the happiest years of your life? I don't know what to put up in the high. What I got my land paid for and when I had a few dollars in the bank, that was when I probably was most relaxed. that's when I could go to Cuba on a holiday and not worry about what was behind.

You know, we haven't mentioned traveling much. In your time, especially in the earlier, as you talked about working in Peace River and Grand Prairie and things like that. You know, like today, not today, specifically, because of COVID-19, the border is being shut down and everything like that. But two years ago, people were constantly going to Mexico, Cuba, Hawaii, you just name it, and they went. Myself, I'm married to an American, so we go to Minnesota all the time, once a year, twice a year kind of thing.

Did you travel much when you're growing up? Could you afford to? Was there anywhere to even travel to? When I was growing up, no, no. Well, my dad used to take us boys to Banff, Jasper, and places like that. And mom and the girls had to stay home because of the cows, somebody had to milk the cows

and do the chores. And we did stuff like that, you know, jump in a car, jump in a camper and go. But it was low-key like this traveling the world kind of thing didn't even exist until like I said when the land was paid for

a few pennies in your pocket yeah yeah where was the first place then you went when you had the land paid for a few pennies in your pocket where was where did you go let's travel here and let's go see something that was when I married Margaret that we cut together and decided, I think, was Cuba.

And we went there every winter someplace. What did you think of Cuba when you first went there? It was good. I like every kind of trip. I like experience to visit how other people live. I love that. But there's always some other place to go that would be a new adventure.

I never thought much of going to the same place back and forth, back and forth. That's why we kind of switched. I went all the way to Alaska, to Yukon once just to see. I was up there in the wintertime, but when you got a load to go here, a load to go there,

that's not the same as when you go on leisure. You know, like you go from A to B as quick as you can, because wherever your load is designated for is where you go, keep your customer happy. But I saw lots of things. And another thing too, when we went north, it was always in the wintertime, and everything is frozen. When we went on a holiday, it was in the summertime. And that was altogether different when you're...

And I think for her, it was her first trip, and she enjoyed it too, which made it more fun for me. But now I'm alone again, so traveling by myself is not really my number one thing. You've been married three times, Fred? Yeah. When I was with Ruby, it was kind of the first girl that came to the house and washed the clothes and looked after the house. and I think three, well, it was more than that, probably five years later, we decided to get married. And then the kids were leaving home because they were old enough.

But that was kind of the same time when the panic button hit 20% interest and land was financed, and house was financed. I had to go and pick up a winter job. My winter job was supervising, and I got paid good money, but there was never no, I'm going to get off at this day or that day. That's the way it was set up,

but it never worked out. You went and worked, and you're up north, eight hours from here. Yeah, but like I said, when it was first starting, I was supposed to work three weeks and get to go home

when it never worked because if I was on a job like North of McMurray someplace and I told somebody that I wanted to go home, they didn't hear me. Tomorrow you're going to do this, tomorrow you're going to do that kind of thing.

It didn't, there was no, times are really busy at that time and nobody figured that they could do without you. You're kind of married to your job, I guess is the way to put it. That was an eye-opener for me too that time. it's all water under the bridge now. Going in a completely different direction, you were talking to me before we started this, about playing hockey on the open-air rink just north of us.

I'm curious, I see the picture in the home on rink all the time, the open-air arena. When you go back then and we're playing hockey, what are some of the memories you have, from those days? I guess most of all it was an outing. I was never really good on my feet. So a guy that, it's not like today,

that person that couldn't skate was a goalie automatically. The person who could skate was the goalie? No, couldn't skate. Oh, couldn't skate, couldn't skate. So you were a goaltender? Yeah, mostly, yeah. With no helmet on? No face mask?

Never even had shin pads. We used to have them strap on ones that everybody wore. But nothing in your face. But the age thing was another thing. I don't know what year Donald Newman was born in. But I was younger than him by probably 10 years or more. And the Carmody Boys was Terry Carmody.

There was Joey never played, I don't think, not with us anyway. And there was a true. for ask. Ross boys. Ross boys paid for Indian Creek. Bill and Jim. Did you get lots of people

watching? Watching? Yeah. Or was it just nobody there except for the players? Oh, there's odd parents came, yeah, but no. No. No, no spectators. There was no pay me there

to open the door for you, Anything, no. Would you shovel the ice off after the beginning and end? Yeah, first with the shovel and then went to those scrapers. I don't know how to explain, but there was a board on the ground and then handle up and that bar across and two people used to shove it. You used to push it. Yeah. And then the guy at the end of the rink or wherever it was shoved to, shoved it over the fence.

of shovel. Did you guys have a nemesis, a rival team that you enjoyed coming to town? Oh, probably, but it was not rival like now. There was no such a thing as getting your face punched in or knocked the glasses off your face. I never experienced that. Yeah, when our kids were playing hockey, it was a lot of. It was much more aggressive, yeah. But just bouncing somebody into the boards and stuff, I can't remember that. You mean that the hitting?

There was no hitting? Not really, because there were different ages, like the older people respected the younger ones. Oh, I see what you're saying. So there was anywhere from young kids all the way up to grown men on the ice at the same time. Well, there weren't young kids like I was, I don't know, 12, 14 at that time. Which is still a young kid in today's standard?

Yeah, I was one of the younger ones. I think they were short of players, and that's why they edged us to come. Yeah, but I don't remember anybody having the kind of a question. equipment that you have today. We grabbed the skates and extra parassocks. The rink was open, but we did have a dressing room, and in the dressing room was an airtight heater that was fired up to keep the place warm.

Yeah, no, it was definitely different. When you look back at the... home on area, what was, what event maybe sticks out in your mind, whether it's a piece of technology coming in, maybe it was natural gas coming, maybe it was power, electricity, whatever it is. Over your, when you look back, what was one of the biggest things that happened to this area that sticks out to you? I would say the arrival of power, but I wasn't here then.

That's when I was up north. Yeah, that's when. And the telephone was, that all kind of started at the same time. Like my youngest sister rode on a school bus. None of us older ones ever saw a school bus. So school bus, power, all that sort of stuff. It came in the late 50s, I would say. Or after the middle 50s, I don't know, power was 56 maybe.

Do you remember the first time you walked into a building that had power or some form of, I mean, you talked to up when we first started about the little house you lived in and the wood fire and things like that to heat it and cook and everything? Do you remember the first time you walked into a place that just, you're like, wow. Like we don't have this on the farm. which was when I came home to visit, like I used to come home probably every Easter time when the roads were banned up north. That's when I came home to visit. Yeah, that's the first time I saw power here.

But some people did their own well. Some people had electrician wire and there was all the house was the first thing that got wired and then a barn later. Yeah. No, it was a lot of changes, that's for sure. Walking to the barn with a cool, a lamp to milk your cow or to feed your horse, that was, you know, it was, you know, a lot of changes, that's for sure. The power was definitely a step up from that. Well, I thank you for sitting with me. We've been going for a little over an hour now,

so that's probably perfect way to end. But I appreciate you making some time for me this morning and feeding me some coffee and some cookies, and it's been a great little visit here. Yeah, well, I enjoy talking to somebody that listens. I mean, that's to me a good thing. think too. Most people have no time to listen. It's as strange as we speed up, people don't do this anymore. No time. They tell themselves they have no time, Fred. Well, that's what I've said all my life. You have

time to do what you want to do. You have time to go fishing if you enjoy fishing. You have time to go hunting if you enjoy hunting. And you make time. That's the only way you'll have it. And that's kind of the same thing that struck me. What did you do all day? You asked me, what do you do all day when you had to sit home? I had to cut wood, got the milk with a cow.

Otherwise, there was no milk on the table. Those two things alone were something you didn't do today. We had a saw horse and put a pole in the sawhorse and cut a block off and then cut another block off. It took a long time to get firewood to last you all night. Well, I think younger, I'm talking about people around my age, when Brad and I, I sit and talk of Brad Simons for those listening. When we talk about it, we talk about your generation and in order to heat your house, in order to have water, in order to have milk, in order to, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Just anything you take a look at required your effort

and time. And so you spend a lot of time surviving. It's pretty much the easiest way to put it. And today's we well I go back to the top of the hour if I want wood I go to Home Depot if I want milk I go to the grocery store if I want a garden I go to the grocery store and get vegetables if I want entertainment I go over here and that can be said for pretty much well I mean look at what we're doing right now this wasn't sitting here when you were my age like it just wasn't pull up a computer stick down two mics in a way we go no no that's true It's just changed so immensely since you were even my age. But you get used to it quickly because it's a convenience.

Oh, absolutely. You forget, wow. I don't know, sometimes you worry about the world today because if we ever have to take a step back, how many people know how to do all the things you just said and talked about? Yeah, but usually nobody wants to do that. What is your attitude when you go and say, and your boss tells you, you're going to have to take a cut and pay

because I can't pay you the same as I paid you last year or last week? Well, we just went through that, or currently going through that. It's not, I don't think anybody enjoys taking a pay decrease. The body is built that way. You don't want to back up on nothing. You want to go forward. that's my experience

it doesn't matter what it is you hate to oh your cook is not feeling too good today so it's your turn to make breakfast that's the simplest way to explain it that can happen any day of the week but you do it

because you figure it's your duty or you're obliged to do that. But when it's something like your boss telling you that you got to take a cut and pay, then you really dig in your heels. You're the same guy, you've got the same knowledge. How come you have to take a cut and pay? Money's a tough one.

Exactly. That's why I said to me, That was one of my biggest learning thing was financing. Learn how to finance. Well, I do appreciate you sitting down with me. And I'm glad we got this together in short time. This has been a lot, really enjoyable. Okay, I'm glad you're happy with it.

I'm not a professional at this job. Hey folks, thanks again for joining us today. If you just stumble on the show and like what you hear, please click subscribe. Remember, every Monday and Wednesday a new guest will be sitting down to share their story. The Sean Newman podcast is available for free on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, and wherever else you find your podcast fix. Until next time.